WEBVTT - Listener Questions #36 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:11.880 The oderon pops up when protons collide and bounce a 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.960 three gluon ghost too quick to announce. 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.000 When microbes invade and our skin begins to swell, the 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.560 immune system calls upon the langerhon cell. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.080 If our universe sits in a black hole's embrace, do 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:31.160 our own black holes? Nest makomatrioshka in space. 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.800 Whatever questions keep you up at night, Daniel and Kelly's 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:35.879 answers will make it right. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:41.440 Welcome to Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe of Listener Questions, 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.320 episode number thirty six. 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.440 Hello. I'm Kelly Wienersmith. I study parasites and space, and 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.639 I think that this was one of our better rhyming 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:05.200 starts to the show. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.840 Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and my goal 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.959 is to write a rhyme that Zach Weenersmith doesn't skip. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:19.640 Well, I mean, I think you're violating the arrow of 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.640 time with that, because you know, he's just he's not 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:23.800 going to listen to any of them. 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.399 No, he's listening to this part right now, and he's thinking, hmmm, 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:29.960 maybe I should go back and listen to the rhymes. See. 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.920 Okay, Well, so here he's gonna have to listen because 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.039 here's here's what I was thinking we could do today. 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.360 So I ask chat gpt to write a two line 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.760 poem about each of the topics that we're talking about today. 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.840 And I thought that after we answered each question, we 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.720 could revisit our poem and then compare the chat gpt 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.000 poem and one see we could have people like way 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.360 in on which one they thought was better. Yes, and 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:58.440 we could see if chat gpt was like accurate at. 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.720 All all part of our to force Zach to listen 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:02.840 to our terrible poetry. 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.120 That's right, that's right. And you know, if we're going 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:06.440 to force him, it should be on a day when 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:07.600 we did like pretty okay. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:11.880 So and since you can rewind podcasts, we can break 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:13.720 the podcast earrow of time. 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:16.440 We can, right. And for background for anyone who's wondering, 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:18.840 Zach is my husband who has a degree in literature, 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:23.280 who cringes whenever Daniel and I make any attempts at poetry. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:24.440 So haha, Zach. 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.640 But today we're not just here to needle Kelly's husband. 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.600 We're here to answer your questions because you're curious about 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.160 the universe, from the stuff inside your body to the 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.560 vast celestial bodies that make up our universe. You want 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:39.480 to understand it, you want to fit it all in 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.880 your mind and make it make sense. But sometimes it 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.720 doesn't play along. There's something that sticks out and doesn't 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.680 click together. And we are here to make it all work. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.360 Yes, we are putting together the puzzles for you, and 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.960 let's start with the puzzle presented to us by Tammy 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:55.800 from Denver. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.560 Hi, Daniel, and Kelly. This is Tammy from Denver. Heard 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:04.520 about the Odaron particle on another podcast, basically that it 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.240 exists and would love to learn more about it. I 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.160 have just a few questions. How is the ouduran discovered? 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.960 Does it exist naturally or is it created? And if 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.799 it's created, then how is the particle stable or does 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.800 it decay? And if it decays, what is the half life? 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.920 Does the auduron interact with other particles and if so, 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.800 how would it combine with them, repel them or would 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.480 it just ignore them? If combined, would the resulting particle 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.840 be stable? Thank you for answering my questions and I 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:38.040 really enjoy the show. 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.600 All right, I'll be honest, I have never heard of 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:48.240 the odoron particle. Oh yeah, there's two d's in it. 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.200 It's an odd name, but it doesn't smell bad. The 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.880 odorons sounds like a really stinky particle. 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:55.920 We'd have to get a smell expert back on the 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.720 show to talk about the odoron particle. But all right, 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:00.880 I guess this one is in your wheel, So tell 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:02.760 us about the oduron particle. 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.640 The auduron particle is not a particle in the sense 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:09.120 that you are probably thinking. You're imagining. The universe is 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.360 made up of little bits and bobs and they come 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.840 together to build apples and dinosaurs and all sorts of stuff, 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:16.800 and you can think of them as like tiny little 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.120 marbles or little bits of matter and ask questions like 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:22.200 how much mass does it have, how long does it live? 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.000 How does it interact? But physicists are very generous with 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.960 the term particle. It can mean lots and lots of 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.840 different things. And here the short answer is that the 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.960 oderon is not a little bit of stuff. It's actually 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.320 just kind of a pattern seen among gluons when protons 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:41.000 or anti protons collide. 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.680 All right, so what does that mean? What does a 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:45.400 pattern indicate? 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:47.880 So to understand what's going on here, we really have 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:52.080 to understand some crucial details of the strong force, which 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:56.040 is who's in charge when protons collide. So often we 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.080 smash protons together, right, like at the large hadron collider, 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:00.800 we have a beam of proton going one way, or 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.440 another being of protons going the other way, we smash 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:07.039 them into each other. Sometimes they just bounce off each other, 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.279 like the way two billiard balls would. There's no internal 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.880 structure at play there. They just bounce off each other, 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.960 and we call this an elastic collision. Sometimes they smash 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.880 and like what's going on inside the protons interacts and 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.440 we call this an inelastic collision, and then you get 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.640 like new particles, etc. But if the protons are just 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.760 bouncing off of each other in an elastic way, right, 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.480 not breaking open, just being treated as if they were 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.640 their own particles, then how does that interaction happen? Right, 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.880 the protons get close to each other, how do they 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:41.039 bounce off exactly? Well, they do that by exchanging virtual particles, 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.920 like we can talk about how electrons repel each other 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.680 by exchanging a virtual photon, or if you prefer the 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.599 field picture, by having ripples in the electromagnetic field between them. 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.840 When protons bounce off each other, it's similar except that 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.040 they exchange gluons because gluons are the field that mediates 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:02.400 the strong force. It's the analogy of the photon for electromagnetism. 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.080 Still with me, I'm still with you. In my head, 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:06.880 I can imagine what a photon is, but I'm having 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:08.520 trouble remembering what a gluon is. 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:10.640 Yeah, so a gluon is just like a photon for 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:15.000 a different force. Right, Photons we have for light and electromagnetism. 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.800 Gluons are for the strong force. Remember we have sort 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:22.440 of four fundamental forces. There's the strong force, the weak force, electromagnetism, 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.120 and gravity. Well, the photon is for electromagnetism, the weak 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.200 forces the W and Z particles, and the strong force 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.720 has the gluons. Okay, right, Okay, so we have two 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.720 protons coming together and they're exchanging gluons to bounce off 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.920 of each other. But gluons are really really weird. 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:39.599 Okay. 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.599 I'm still feeling like you don't get to judge me 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:43.760 for using Latin names with all the terms that you're 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.719 throwing around now, But I'm still following you. I'm still 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:47.200 following you. 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.640 Well, Unfortunately, a lot of the terms we use are 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.320 not Latin names. They're just adopted from English, and then 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.760 we give them totally different meanings to be massively confusing. 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.960 Right, which seems even worse than but. 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.640 Totally agree it's even worse. For example, sample we talk 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.400 about gluons as having color, even though it's not like 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.000 you can look at them and see colors. But color 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:10.320 for gluons is an analogy to charge. For electrons, electrons 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.960 have a negative charge. Protons have a positive charge. That's 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.880 the electromagnetic charge. The strong force has its own charge, 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.560 but we call it color because there are three varieties, red, green, 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.679 and blue. But there's a crucial difference between the strong 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:28.120 force and electromagnetism. While the photon has no charge, right, 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.760 it interacts with charge particles, but the photon itself is neutral. 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.840 Gluons do have charge, and that's going to turn out 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:38.480 to be crucial for forming this interaction among gluons that 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.240 we call the odoron. So the gluon itself interacts with 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.120 all particles that have strong charge or color, but it 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:49.480 also itself has color. It is a colored particle. It's 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.360 like if the photon was positive or negative in charge. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.960 Okay, so when we say that a gluon has a charge, 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.000 but we call it a color instead. Should I think 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.240 of it as having a charge, but we're just calling 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.200 it a color, But it actually is like has a 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:06.760 charge that. 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:07.640 Yeah, you can think of it. 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.120 Why don't we just call it a charge? 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.800 We do sometimes call it a charge if you're thinking 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.920 charge more generally, not just electromagnetic charge. So you can 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.080 think of strong charge. Every time we say the word color, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.280 you can just think strong charge and that totally works. Okay, 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.040 just realize that it's not electromagnetic charge. You're not talking 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:25.520 about positives and negatives here. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.640 Okay, So then, uh, this is going to be a 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.640 real basic Kelly's embarrassed question. So then what does charge 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.160 mean in a much more general sense? 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.560 Oh yeah, I think we have a whole episode about that. 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.520 But charge means that two fields are coupled together. So 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.760 in the electromagnetic charge couples the photon field to any 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.120 other kind of field. So any field that has a 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.840 charge the photon interacts with, really that's a coupling between 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.560 those two fields. It means energy can slosh back and 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.680 forth from the electron field to the photon field, or 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.719 from the gluon field to the quark field. So a 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.360 charge is just like a coupling between two fields, says 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.200 energy can transfer between them. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:03.360 Okay, got it. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.880 All right, So back to the gluon. Why are we 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.880 talking about the gluon having color or having strong charge, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.640 because it has to in order to form this ouduron. 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.400 And it's really fascinating. I think this is super cool. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.480 Why the gluon has colors. One more detail we need 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.960 to understand before we get to the oduron, which is 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.560 why you have to have multiple gluons. When two electrons 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.920 come together, they can exchange just a single photon and 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.320 they're done. And that's because the photon doesn't carry any charge. Right, 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.720 So the electron comes in with negative charge, leads with 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.319 negative charge. It's all good. But because the gluon is charged, 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:40.040 protons cannot just exchange one gluon because protons have to 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.000 have no color charge. Any object that's out there in 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.640 the universe can't have a color charge all by itself. 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.040 And so if a proton comes in emits one gluon, 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.480 because that gluon carries away some color charge, then the 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.760 proton itself would be color charged, and the proton that 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.840 receives the gluon would be color charged, So the protons 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:03.000 have to exchange two gluons, one going each direction, so 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.120 that the total color charge is canceled out. But they 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.920 can still exchange momentum and bounce off of each other. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.400 So let's recap. We're talking about what's happening when two 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.680 protons bounce off of each other without destroying each other. 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.880 They're just exchanging some momentum, and they do that by 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.600 exchanging gluons. But because gluons are charged and protons are 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.160 not charged under the strong force, then the gluons have 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:28.000 to balance in charge, and so you have to have 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.480 one going one way and one going the other way, Okay, 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.520 and that's where the auduron comes in. The oduron is 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.720 like an interaction, a pattern between those two gluons. While 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.320 the gluons are between these two protons, they can also 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.679 interact because they both have color charge. And that's what 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.160 an aduron is. It's like a compound of gluons that 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:52.360 are sort of bound together very briefly while two protons 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:53.200 are interacting. 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.720 Okay, so I should think of it as two gluons 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:01.560 that are bound or they just kind of hang out 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.200 near each other like awkward teenagers. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:08.240 Yeah, it's very short lived. It's not stable. It's really 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:09.920 on the edge of whether you should call this thing 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.280 a particle. It's more like a mathematical observation. And it 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.600 turns out that you can exchange more than two gluons. 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.880 You can exchange three or four or nineteen. And if 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.240 you take all the exchanges which have an odd number 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.839 of gluons three, five, seven, nine, eleven, and you add 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:29.560 them all together mathematically, then the movement of that thing, 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.800 the way the momentum gets exchanged between the protons is 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.920 exactly as if there was a single particle exchange. So 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.679 take all the odd number of gluon exchanges where these 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.440 gluons are doing weird stuff and interacting along the way, 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:44.960 add them all together. You get a big, ugly mess 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:48.600 of mathematics. But then it collapses. It simplifies into a 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.240 very simple equation, the same equation you would write if 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.520 you had a single particle of mediating this exchange. And 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.199 that's what the odderon is. It's like this abstraction of 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.120 all of these common, iplicated interactions which happens to come 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.480 together into a very simple equation. And that's why they 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.240 call it the odd Oran because it's all the odd 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.680 number of gluon exchanges three, five, seven, nine, et cetera. 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.160 I think I don't follow why it has to be 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.160 odd numbers of exchanges. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.439 This mathematical simplification to take a bunch of terms and 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.480 put it together into one particle works for the odd terms. 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.680 It also works for the even terms. The even term 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.720 has a different name. So we called these the odoran 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:29.760 and the other ones I think we call the pomeran. 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:31.959 Oh, come on, they need to be the even rons 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:35.000 or something. Why are they the potter? 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.040 I was embarrassed to even tell you. I know, it's crazy. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.560 It's unforgivable the way we've named these things. 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:40.920 It is. 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.480 I'm upset. I'm getting worked up over here. 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.160 Yeah. So this is a really interesting bit of physics, Tammy, 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.000 and I'm glad you asked about it. Apologies that it 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.120 turned out to be so complicated. There's lots of little 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.760 details that you have to put together here to understand 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.160 what an oduron is. I'll try to recap it again 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.520 one more time, just to make sure it's all coming together. 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:00.920 When two protons bound off of each other, they have 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.080 to exchange gluons. It has to be more than one gluon, 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.679 because the gluons themselves carry charge, but the protons cannot. 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.880 And they can also do three, five or seven or nineteen, 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.400 And if you add up all the odd terms together, 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:18.000 it looks mathematically equivalent to exchanging a particle. That doesn't 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.200 mean that particle is there and real and you could 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.240 like look at it and say, oh, there's an oderon. 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:24.840 It means that we see this pattern in the universe 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.720 and we wonder, h that's cool. Let's treat it as 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:29.920 if it was a particle. And this is a really 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:33.000 subtle effect. It was predicted in nineteen seventy three, and 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.640 it took fifty years for us to find evidence of it, 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.040 and we had to compare proton proton collisions with proton 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.600 anti proton collisions because those have a small difference in 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.760 how many odorons would be made. And finally, fifty years 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.160 after its predicted, they saw evidence for this in those collisions. 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.120 So you asked, how is it created and the answer 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:56.400 is in proton proton interactions. You also asked if it decays, Well, 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.240 it only exists very very briefly. It doesn't exist on 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.400 its own and then turn into other stuff. So in 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.160 that sense, it always the case. It's more like a 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.320 transient exchange object. It's not like a building block that 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.040 you can use to make other stuff with. 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.679 Okay, So that was a great explanation before we hear 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.080 what Tammy thinks, because maybe we can also get Tammy's 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.520 input on the poem. I think we're going to get 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.520 to all right, So here's what chat GPT had to 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:28.400 say of the oduran. Chat GPT says, in quantum shadows, 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.280 the aduran leaves its subtle trace and a symmetry of 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:39.400 gluons shaping matters hidden face. So is that is that correct? Daniel? 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.640 It's not wrong. It's a little heavy, vague symbolism. 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:49.920 Okay, all right, h And then you said the oduran 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.880 pops up when protons collide and bounce a three gluon 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.000 ghost too quick to announce. 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:58.880 Yeah, So Tammy, let us know what you think of 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.680 the physics explanation and who's poetry you prefer? 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:03.880 Oh, putting Timmy on the spot, all right, that's what 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.280 we're gonna do to all the listeners today, all right, 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:07.320 throwing it to Tammy. 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.280 Hi, Daniel and Kelly, thanks for answering my questions and 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.120 correcting the assumption that the odd around is a particle 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.680 and for explaining how it's created. You do a great 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.120 job of explaining complicated concepts in an accessible way, and 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.440 I learned new and interesting facts and concepts from both 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.280 you and Kelly every episode. Thanks so much. 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.000 All Right, we're back and we're answering questions from listeners 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:54.120 today we are satisfying your curiosity. Up next is a 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.040 fun question from Jude from Washington State. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.680 Hi, I just tried to lang her hand cell. The 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.400 explanation described very generally what they do, but it didn't 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:08.440 describe how they work. Can you explain what Langerhans cells 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.760 are and how they work to help the skin respond 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.320 to new stimuli. Thanks for helping us understand the universe. 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:17.240 Jude from Washington State. 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.640 All right, So after I reread this question, I thought 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.920 to myself, Oh, this is one of those that kind 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.840 of feels like maybe I'm being asked to do someone's homework. 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:32.120 And then I thought, well, unfortunately for Jude, if that's 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.880 the case, it takes me about three months to answer 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.720 someone's questions, so it's no longer helpful. And also, I'm 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.280 sure Jude is just genuinely curious about Langerhan cells. 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.080 We always assume good fish, that's right. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.160 And I'm being totally unfair. So langer Han cells. Actually 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.400 I did not know about langer Han cells, so I 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.320 really enjoyed getting a chance to read about them. They 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:58.000 were first described by Paul langer Hans in eighteen sixty eight. 0:16:58.320 --> 0:16:59.720 Did he name them after himself? 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.040 Oh gosh, I don't know. I know that for a 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.879 while there people were naming things after other people, and 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.639 so this could be somebody being nice and naming something 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:11.880 after someone else. I don't know. Maybe he did name 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:15.399 them after you know, I would name something the Wienersmith 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.520 sell if I could, So I can't judge too harshly, frankly. 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:21.720 So this guy was just looking through a microscope and 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:23.000 saw something new and weird. 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.800 Yeah yeah, and so actually, as I understand it, he 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.879 thought that it was a projection of a neuron going 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.760 into your skin. So you find these cells in like 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.399 your epidermis, which is the outer layer of skin, and 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.960 they looked you know, when you imagine a neuron in 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.000 your head, they sort of end with like sort of 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.360 like a circle with that then has all of these 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.560 projections sort of coming out from it. Well, it kind 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:49.800 of looks like that circle with a bunch of projections, 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.800 and so he thought like, oh, this is kind of 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.439 neuron like, and so maybe it's part of the nervous system. 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.879 But then a lot later we realized, no, it's actually 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.760 part of the immune system. And so the Langerhan cells 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.560 are like a line of attack from the immune system 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.280 that is acting in your skin. Okay, And so you 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.920 find them again in your epidermis, and so this is 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.800 the outer layer of skin, and in particular, they're sort 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:22.080 of like moving around inside of your keratinocytes. Keratinocytes are 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.600 like so if you look at your fingers, you've got 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.680 this like thick layer that is impermeable, and those are 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.159 your keratinocytes. And so I learned about you know, I'm 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:34.320 going to try to not throw too many words at you. 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.840 I know, I can see Daniel's face already starting to 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.160 roll his eyes, but I didn't know this, and I'm excited, right, Okay. 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.600 So the deeper you go into the top layer of skin, yeah, 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:48.200 your keratinocytes are alive and they're fed by your blood vessels. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.800 But the closer you get to your surface of your skin, 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.040 they essentially start suffocating and dying and then getting like 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.320 cemented and smoothed together to produce the like layer that 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.919 protects you. And so I didn't really that like just 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:02.920 you know, the closer you get, the more like dead 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.120 they are, and over time they kind of like schluff off. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.960 And that also helps protect you from stuff, because like 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:09.800 you know, if you've got like a bad microbond there, 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.240 eventually they kind of like fall off with your dead 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:14.119 skin cells and they're like, no, I was trying to 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.159 get in there and now they're they're gone. 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.720 This gives me the mental impression that our skin is 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.119 like a slow motion waterfall, just sort of like cascading 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:22.680 off of our pain. 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.720 It was kind of like that, Yeah, I mean, you're 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.960 you're like turning over your skin cells, you know, pretty 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.720 regularly they're getting like sort of sluffed off and waterfalled off. 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:33.399 Wow. 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.720 Crazy, The waterfalls are more beautiful to think of than 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:38.359 your skin cells falling off. 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.880 But anyway, and so these laying your hand cells are 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:44.760 part of these keratinocytes. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.760 They are living amongst your keratinocytes, and so they're a 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:51.000 different kind of cell. As I mentioned, they kind of 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.360 look like the end of like neurons. So they've got 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.159 all of these like long projections that are sort of 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.400 weaving amongst the keratinocytes, and so that let's them sort 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:04.000 of like feel around for invaders. And then their unique 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.159 immune cells and that they do two pretty different jobs. 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.520 So one thing that they do is that their macrophage 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.840 like and macrophage means big eater, and so when they 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.679 encounter an invader, they essentially engulf it and consume it. 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.720 Oh wow, so that it, you know, can't do any damage, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.960 but what if there's more. The other thing that they 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.280 do is they take it to your lymph nodes so 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.000 that they can present it to other parts of your 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.240 immune system, so other parts of your immune system can 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.000 start mounting a defense in case it turns out that 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.760 there's more and you need to mount a bigger defense. 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.840 So they're moving around, right, I'm imagining these caratinocytes is 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.439 like squishy squares squeeze together, but these Langerhead cells can 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.080 like go between them, like in the alley ways. 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.399 Yeah, so they're again they're not really like squares. They're 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.359 like they're like circles, but out coming out from the 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.720 circles are all of these long filaments. They're think more 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.000 like an octopus, but the arms are sort of like 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:08.119