WEBVTT - A Ring That Delivers Personalized Health and Wellness 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.920 These sees Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:08.200 Stanovic on Bloomberg Radio Full Transparency. Tim and I both 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:10.760 have or Rings. Tim has his on I don't I 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.000 forgot to take it off to do some chores. You 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:14.440 are supposed to take it off to take you know, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.279 when you're doing dishes. I was doing something and I 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:18.560 following the rules. It was kind of a rough night, 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:24.120 white and I wasn't diving this time around, all right. 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:26.880 As you may know, it is a privately held company 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.120 that we follow a lot. The current issue Bloomberg Business 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.479 Week magazine, the Pursuit section, it's one of the sleeptrackers 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.720 profiled as part of a deep dive into the business 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:36.960 of sleep, which we know tim is big business. But 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.040 we know this Ring does a lot more than that. Yeah, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.960 it does. Let's start numbers here though. Um just last 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.760 week last year, the market for sleep tracking devices society 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.840 at fourteen point five billion. It's projected to reach sixty 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.000 one two billion by the year. It's a lot of stuff, 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:52.640 all right. So let's get to our guest, Tom Hale. 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.560 He was named CEO of or Ring last April. He 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.040 was former chief operating officer at home Away. They were 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:01.640 acquired by Expedia. He's an a lump to Adobe Macromedia. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.760 He is in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Welcome, Welcome, 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:06.720 Nice to have you here. Thank you so much. It's 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.440 great to be here. So what's it been like? Wow, 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.840 it's been an incredible joy to learn. I mean, you 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.160 think about sort of this particular product being the intersection 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:21.400 of health, physiology, physics, fashion right. I never saw myself 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:23.760 as a purveyor of jewel, right now I am. And 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.880 in technology, you think about what's going on in technology 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.800 where you've got a I processing huge amounts of data 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.639 and the intersection between health and technology is super interesting. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.880 So I've been climbing a huge learning curve. But that's 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.160 been incredibly thrilling. What have you learned the most? Is 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:38.959 it that the size of the market, or the size 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:40.920 of the interest or what you know? I think it 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.840 really is that there's a change under way which is 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.560 about how people are approaching health. I think COVID kind 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:48.400 of took the covers off. Everyone felt a little bit 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:50.320 secure about their health, and then COVID came along and 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:52.960 reminded everybody that health is fragile and you need to 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.280 monitor it and manage it, and everyone started thinking about 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.960 it very differently. And so that change that's a societal 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.640 maybe even a global change, and in some sense, health 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.440 wearable steers right into it. Okay, So or a monitor's 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.880 health through the finger. It's a ring that you wear 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.160 on your finger at tracks sleep, tracks activity throughout the day. 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.400 They're a handful of sensors on it. Um. I'm wondering 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.079 about the technology that goes into the ring, the hardware, 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.600 but also what happens on the app and sort of 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.799 which one is. I don't know where you're investing. Well, 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:26.880 you have to invest in both, of course. I mean. 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.760 Being the only smart ring on the market, we've actually 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:31.960 got a lot of huge technical challenges that we have 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.320 to manage, right. We have to make sure that the 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.760 quality of the signal that we get is the highest 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:40.600 and most accurate that is possible. Frankly, we are medical grade, 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:42.720 you know, in terms of the accuracy of the of 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:46.040 the device itself. Partially that has to do with just 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.360 the location of where you are measuring on the human bodies. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.320 You said, doctors measure your pulse on your heartbeat and 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.560 SPO two from the finger. They don't measure on the 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.440 outside of your wrist. So we are just structurally advantaged 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.520 in terms of accuracy. Now that being said, where a 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.720 science driven organization, so we take that super super seriously. 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.760 We validate everything, not just across like some small population, 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.640 but across men, women, different ethnicities, different skin tones. A 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.160 lot of the technology that are is used for these 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:16.480 kinds of wearable sensors is light based. We shine lights 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.480 into your body and based on the signal that comes back, 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.560 the refraction, the absorption, we're making conclusions about your heart rate, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.600 your respiration, your heart rate variability, these metrics that come 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.960 back to you. Guess what if you don't have the 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.160 same tone in terms of skin color, The melanin in 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.520 your skin absorbs that light differently, and so you have 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.240 to be really thoughtful about how you measure so accuracy, 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:41.119 the form factor, these are structural advantages and structural things 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.400 that we focus on around at or that's the hardware. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:48.040 So how do you technologically account for a white person 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.760 versus a black person versus? How do you do it well? 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.800 You have to make sure one we're we're lucky because 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.000 we measure on the inside of the palm, right, and 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:57.960 the inside of the palm generally actually is a lot 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:02.200 narrower range. Even who have like sunburns or hair or 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.960 tattoos or darker skin on the outside, they tend not 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.800 to have sunburns or tattoos or hair on their palms. 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.160 Maybe some people do, but you know, most don't, So 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.600 that's actually a structural advantage. But we do things like 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.119 we monitor when the light signal goes in what comes back, 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:16.680 and we start to learn a little bit about like 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:18.760 do we have to increase the amplitude to get a 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.000 good signal? Do we have to decrease the amplitude, Because 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.640 we're getting to like we're we're very intelligent about that. 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:25.960 In fact, we did a m One of our big 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.400 features last year was workout heart. Right. You guys might 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.479 have I don't know, experienced, so it's basically different things 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.520 that you can use it for. It's super accurate in 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.760 terms of like measuring your heart rate during a workout. 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:37.720 It's as accurate as a chest strap, which is, you know, 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.200 kind of the gold standard for measuring your heart all right. 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:44.080 So when we were testing it right before we shipped it, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.600 people are like, you know what, uh where we want 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:48.599 to make sure that we validated this across a wide 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:50.440 range of skin tones, and so we actually did a 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:52.240 lot of work to test on a wide range of 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:53.840 skin tones and we felt pretty good about it. We've 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:55.920 made some tweaks in terms of the power of the signal, 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:57.599 the light signal that we send into the body, but 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.200 that kind of scientific validation is the key. And that's 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.320 the hardware side. The software side, though, gets a lot 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:04.920 of updates. The app gets a lot of updates. And 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.680 the reason I ask is is because oftentimes with hardware, 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.600 you see a brand new version each year. If that, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.440 if that this year, you didn't see a new version 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.840 of of a ring with different sensors. You saw a 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.120 different version in the you know, in a superficial sense. 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:20.880 And I use the term superficial not in a project 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:24.000 pejorative way, but you know, the idea that the sensors 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.440 inside didn't change. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's correct. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.480 The sensor platform is the same. By the way, we 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.359 have two versions of the ring, right, yeah, the heritage 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.520 and the horizon. That's what you're talking about, exactly, Um, 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.280 do you which sensors would you add right now if 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.400 you could? Or is it? Is it kind of like 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.160 where it needs to be and the work needs to 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.240 be done on the app side, the analysis side, well, 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:45.320 we're always looking at new technologies as as they're emerging, 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:47.520 and new capabilities as they're emerging. You know, a lot 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.599 of people have have have sort of hypothesized that there 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.160 are lots of things that you can do with new 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:57.120 sensor technology. Um, really, I think the reality is that 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.880 a lot of the ambitions here, like we can test 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.919 your blood glucose, you know, non invasively, are possible, but 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.880 definitely further away than most people are willing to admit. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.560 Elizabeth Holmes could do No, she's she's all over. I 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:14.320 think that's her next process. I don't know, but but 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.560 but you you know, the thing is is that you 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:18.359 want to make sure that those things are validated accurate. 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.080 The technology that goes into our ring today, some of 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.200 it's very very recent, very very new. Some of it 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.360 has been established, there's lots of science around it. So 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.039 the reality is, I don't know that we need to 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.760 see huge updates in it. I think what's what's really 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.400 important about the ring from a maybe different from your 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.799 your wrist, is that it's also comfortable and non battery consumptive. 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.440 I don't know if this has been your experience. Every 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.000 five days or so, I give it a charge and 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:45.600 you don't have to think about it. You just don't 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:47.719 have to think about it. It's just they're sort of 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.599 silently in the background keeping track your metrics. The data 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.359 is being processed, the algorithms are running, the recommendations and 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:55.640 insights are coming through. And that's the software, right. The 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.599 software is your health condition is different from your health condition. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.720 Let's understand that and give you the appropriate messages. That's personalization, 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:04.800 that's machine learning, that's that's very different. I think the 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.760 pace of software innovation incredibly rapid. Right, we're releasing two 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.400 three features a month, because that's the pace of software hardware. 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.680 You kind of wanted to be stable because you don't 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:16.800 want to change it all the time. I agree, Um, 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.320 who is your typical consumer? Well, what would you guess? 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.880 What would you guess? I'm thinking like a guy in 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:30.200 his thirties, guy in his thirties Kendall Roy from Succession, Well, yeah, 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:34.400 or yeah, that was that was also yeah the Billions 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.320 where well did can I just ask you before we 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.920 get into this series, what does that stuff do for you? First? 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.720 Of all, it's great recognition, but what does it do 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.800 the needle it well, you know, funnily enough, when when 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.560 it used to be airtime, it would actually you can 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:50.440 see it, but but it's not airtimes now it's all 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.760 streaming on demand, right. But I think it just puts 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.960 us in people's consideration. They now understand there is a 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.000 smart ring category and you can wear it. And if 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.960 if you're like the cast member of Billions, like maybe 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.120 maybe you want to be a little careful. That's I 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:05.880 was going to say is sometimes, you know, sometimes it's 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.360 worn by somebody who's not necessarily a fan favorite, right, 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.280 you're not really sympathetic to Kendall Roy? Does that? Does 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.080 that bother you? No? Look, I mean what do they say? 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.720 No bad, no bad pr um? You know when what 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.240 is it when the Mr Big does he die on 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:23.400 a Palozon? I can't remember? Maybe that's maybe that's a 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.920 bad example. Let's not go there. It was not great 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.920 Palozon hasn't been doing that. Yeah, let's hope you know 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.439 when when the next one doesn't die. And my point 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.560 is all that stuff is positive and all all the 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:39.880 you know, halo around influencers, media personality, CEO Davos was crazy. 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.560 It was, you know, lousy with or a rings. You know, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:46.040 it's crazy. So that's really powerful for us. But the 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:47.560 reality is, I think most people, you know, how they 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:49.040 learned about it. They learned about it from my friend. 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.280 Well we talk about I feel like there's bonding, like 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.480 when you see somebody's on it's like, yeah, it's just 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.400 really the term you can use, but I won't say 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.240 it on air, but I can't say it. Yeah, we'll 0:08:58.240 --> 0:08:59.559 have to talk about later. I'm not sure where you 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.400 refering to know. Okay, okay, all right, we're gonna come 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.640 back with Tom Hale. Still got a ton of questions 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.480 to ask. If I want to get back to is 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.160 it tim is see the typical demo? Well, actually, you 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.120 know what's interesting is the typical demo is a perfect 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.520 bell curve around the age thirty five and equal male 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.800 to female. Yeah, we're gonna talk more about this, and 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:19.400 we wanna talk about growth in the business and where 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.200 it's all going. Tom Hale, Chief Executive Officers or in 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.640 our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Our conversation will continue in 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.800 just a moment. Tom Hale still with US, Chief Executive 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.880 officer of or still in our interactive broker's studio. So 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.400 we're talking about your demo. So just let's go back there. 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.880 So your your typical buyer, I hate to say that, 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.080 your average buyer of an horror ring is who. Yeah, 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.640 it's um it's actually a perfect bell curve on on 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.000 either side of age thirty five. And so you see, 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.199 you know, folks are aging in place who want to 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.720 manage their health, people who have chronic illnesses who are 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:52.400 trying to make sure they don't get sick. You have 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.760 thirty year old athletes who are training for their marathon 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.040 or their ten k. You have twenty year olds who 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.640 are women who are just coming to maturity and want 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.280 to manage their contraception using you know, non hormonal contraception. 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.920 You've got young kids, fifteen year olds who are training 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.160 for the first time and thinking about recovery and how 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.160 to do it. So it's a pretty broad span. Health, 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.160 of course, is a money killered beast. People are having 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.440 different health situations as they move through their life. Is 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.000 that what's really driving people to ultimately get it? It's 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:22.120 about sleep and health. So some people people who are 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:23.840 you know, I mean honestly I think as you get older, 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:25.960 sleep becomes this thing. And if you're a woman or 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.640 a man in a certain age, like sleep becomes really important. 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.360 Fads are out of the nest. So sleep is really 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.319 a big driver. And the thing is as like sleep 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.640 is this habit that everybody does, but no one's particularly 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.720 good at, right, And when you lose sleep, wow, you 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.400 feel it right, taching to acquire looking at Carol right there? Ye, 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.400 sleep as sleep is this? I was just reading that. 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.080 They say there's something that goes on with your brain 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.000 as you get older that affects your ability to kind 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.640 of stay asleep throughout. Lots of things change, right, pressures 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.120 of life, stress, you know, all sorts of things asleep. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.920 So okay, talk about the scores here because that's mainly 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.520 what I look at ye on the app when I 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.360 wake up in the morning to see how I slept. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.360 What what do you aim for? What should people be sleeping? Like? 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.880 I think this is the things that everybody's health situation 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:10.480 is a little bit different. Really, what you're looking at 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.760 is your baseline. Again, medicine has been practiced for years 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.160 on the averages, and the truth is that we're all different. 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.280 In fact, not only are we different, but we're also 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.880 constantly changing. So the metrics that go into those three scores, 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.320 and the three scores for for clarity are sleep, activity, 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.160 and readiness. And sleep is really like how well did 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.559 you sleep, and it really understands a lot. How quickly 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.720 did you fall asleep, how much disturbances did you have, 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:34.240 how many how many times did you move around, how 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.720 many times did you wake up? Did you fall asleep quickly? 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.560 Did you fall asleep within your normal bedtime? All these 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.400 things are factors and we come up with one score, 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.120 and that score is like somewhere between zero and a hundred. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.040 Very few people get a hundred. Some people do. Most people, 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.040 if you look at the bell curve, probably distributed between 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.040 seventy and eighty five. So if you're in that, you're 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.200 pretty good, right and I go for a I go 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.080 for seventy five? Are up? Yeah? Um, But it's not easy. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.480 And duration, by the way, is a really important right, 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:01.920 but it's not the only factor when it comes to 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.800 the data dump. If you will, there is a point 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.960 where you know it gets to be a lot. How 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.839 do you make sure that you're giving people smarter information, 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.240 enough information? Like what's the balance? So well, I think 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.880 we think about it as most people just want to 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.520 check how they deviated from their baseline. And that's actually 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.480 one of the things that the software does. It learns 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.040 you kind of learns your patterns and then say, well, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.240 this is a deviation from that pattern, so maybe something's 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.200 going on, and that the software kind of says, maybe 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.520 you should take a rest. You're gonna look, it's so 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.920 good today. Did you have a drink last night? You know, 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.240 it's like and and that that kind of like supportive 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.439 approach is really difference, really unique in the in the 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.280 wearable space, because we're not saying get your ten thousand 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.200 steps whether you like it or not, or whether you 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:45.720 feel up to it or not. It's like we actually 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.160 our activity score adjusts, you know, we we actually the 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.160 activity goal we set at just based on your readiness 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:53.640 or honestly, okay, let's talk numbers here. Yeah, let's talk 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:55.440 about the business. Yeah, I want to hear about the business. 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.240 So you know, you can buy one of these rings 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.360 bucks bucks. That's a one time revenue hit for you guys. 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.240 But then there's the membership six bucks a month. Do 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.360 you need to have the membership in order to get 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.920 to use the ring. Um No is the answer. Um. 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:13.520 But I think one of the things that we think 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.520 a lot about is that your health really is priceless. 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.319 And actually the algorithms and the processing and the R 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:20.840 and D that we do that looks at your data, 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.640 it becomes more valuable over time. Right. It's not just 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:25.840 did you get your steps in today? And by the way, 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:27.760 once you figured out what ten thou steps looks like, 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.320 do you really need to be told you got The 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.120 other thing that I'm curious about is, um, how many 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.600 people like churn people who buy them and keep them 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.439 because wearables are just known for people throwing them in 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.679 a drawer. So I can't give you all fatigue e 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.120 device fatigue. And I think that's where the software comes 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.280 in because we think about not only is your data changing, right, 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.120 because let's put it for example, a lot of people 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.200 get sick and the ring tells them, hey, listen, you 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:55.640 look like you might want to go into rest mode, 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.960 and the app reconfigures itself around you being sick. The 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:03.000 activity score go away, the advice changes, the tone changes. 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:04.520 It goes from being like go for it to be 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.520 like take a break, And that customization, that experience is 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:10.760 different because your health condition has changed, all right, So 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.400 that idea that your health condition is changing all the time, 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.840 and the way the app can figures that's value over time. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:18.560 It did this to me when I got COVID. It 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.640 realized that I had COVID, right, you know, it was 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.520 like crazy sleep and stuff, televated body temperature and it's 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:24.760 you know, asked if I wanted to switch in the 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:26.360 rest mode. You didn't answer my question about how many 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.720 people keep their ring on? Yeah, So two facts that 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.760 I could share. So one is the average war time. 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.200 So if you look at the mean wear time over 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:38.760 twenty four hour period, the average mean about twenty two 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.680 hours and thirty minutes. Okay, that's the mean. When you 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:46.120 look at the median, it's actually twenty three hours and 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.640 thirty minutes. So what does that mean. It means half 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.480 above half a exactly. So that means most people are 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.840 wearing it more than twenty three hours. But I guess 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:55.600 when somebody puts the ring on, do they keep it 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.680 on for twelve months? Do they keep it on? The 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.000 second stat the second stat is after twenty sorry, after 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.360 fifty two weeks, we have eight percent of the people 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:08.320 still engaged with the That is shocking because, as you said, 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.600 in the wearable world, the typical thing is you get 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.160 the wearable, you try it on, you get some value, 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:13.760 and you throw it in the drawer because you figured 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.200 it out, or you have to charge it. All right, 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:17.120 So how much is the business growing? Your private but 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.600 give us some metrics can tell you. Are you growing? 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.000 I think, oh, we're in hyper growth. That would that 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:27.320 would be the phrase that year. Every year I'm making 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.280 a face. You can't see it on well maybe you can. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.160 But we're growing incredibly quickly and are profiting in a 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:39.520 down market. We're investing, you're investing. Will you go public? Um? 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:41.320 I think we're building the business and we want to 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.480 build a big business. And um, Honestly, having been in 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.520 public companies, I'm not in any rush to go public. 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:48.720 I want to make sure we're set up right. You 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.800 need to raise any more money? Um No, we're probably 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.960 set maybe even to a public event. We might we 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.200 might see one more round, even to a public event. Yea, 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.920 oh so it could be a consideration. But you never 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.840 you did not hear it here actually did and going 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:06.480 it alone, have no plans. Let me put it this way. 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.040 To be explosit we have no plans to go public. 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:09.760 I mean, could an Apple like has Apple come out? 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.720 This was also recently, I think maybe by a colleague 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:14.680 of yours, And I said, when when when Tim calls? 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.160 Like I'm gonna pick up the phone, but he hasn't 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:17.800 called yet. All right, this was a lot of fun. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.760 Come back soon, it okay, Tom Tom Hale, Chief executive 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.520 Officer of Or of course. Uh here in our Interactive 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.600 Broker studio, you're listening in watching Bloomberg Business Week, Carol Master, 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.760 Tim Stanovic, and this is Bloomberg