1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,559 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 2: The prosecutor strikes a deal with the devil, then breaks 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 2: down and cries in court. He should be crying. Coburger. 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: Brian Coburger kills three murders, savages four beautiful Idaho University 5 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 2: students virtually in their sleep, takes a plea deal to 6 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: save his own skin? Why was that allowed? Good evening, 7 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. I want to 8 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. 9 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 3: Of the emergency. 10 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: You don't know what the emergency one one. I don't 11 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: know you're like me, But every time I hear that 12 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: nine one one call of the survivors desperately seeking help, 13 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: four of their friends, their roommates, massacred, butchered in their sleep. 14 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 2: How in the world did Brian Koberger escape trial in 15 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: the last hours? That deal with the devil goes down 16 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 2: in open court. But I want you to see the 17 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: prosecutor choking on his own words, breaking down, crying in court. 18 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 4: Watch On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, excuse me, miss 19 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 4: Coberger entered the residents of eleven twenty two King Road 20 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 4: in Moscow, Idaho. He did that with the intent to kill. 21 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 4: We will not represent that he intended to commit all 22 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 4: of the murders that he did that night, but we 23 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 4: know that that is what resulted, and that he then 24 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 4: killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately, with premeditation and with mouse forethought. 25 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 4: Maddy Mogen Kate, we consolfics, Ethan Chapin and that credal. 26 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: Thank you really save it, your tears me nothing. You 27 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: stood there and you took the deal over the objections 28 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: of some victims' families, and I agree with them. At 29 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: first I thought it wouldn't happen. I thought maybe the 30 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: media was wrong. Reports could be wrong, couldn't they But 31 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: then it went down in the last hours in a 32 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: court of law. It's done. It's over. Brian Cooberger will 33 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: never face the death penalty. He won't even face trial. 34 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: The victims' families will never have answers Straight out to 35 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensicks, Jacksonville State University, author of 36 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, didn't intend to kill 37 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: the victims. What didn't he go in the home with 38 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: a k bar knife? I don't know, Joe Scott, do 39 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: you go into other people's homes carrying a military style 40 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 2: k bar knife. I don't why did he? Do you 41 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: sneak in and break and adore Joe Scott? Do you 42 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: sneak around at three or four o'clock in the morning 43 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: trying not to wake them up so you can have 44 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: the element of surprise on your victims? Any of that? 45 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: Do you dress in an outfit that you can shed 46 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: the moment you get out of the home like this, 47 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: so you leave nothing behind? Do you wear a face 48 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: mask in gloves when you encounter the residents of the home? No, 49 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: this was his intent. Under the law, there are two 50 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: types of intent. Those types of intent evidence are implied 51 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: and explicit. Explicit intent is when I say something like 52 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: just got Morgan, I'm going to kill you, and then 53 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: I shoot you dead. That's explicit. Implicit is intent manifested 54 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: by your actions, such as every action conducted by Brian 55 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: Coburger didn't intend Just got Morgan? Explain how wrong that is? 56 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 2: No wonder the prosecutor was crying. 57 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 5: Yeah. The only time I've ever carried a military knife 58 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 5: anywhere was when I was in the army, and I 59 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 5: don't ever really remember uncheathing at all all those years ago. 60 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 5: I had it as part of my equipment, and no, 61 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 5: I would not dress like this unless I had specific 62 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 5: intent to do great bodily harm and bring an instant nancy. 63 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 5: I've talked about this before, an instrument of death with me. 64 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 5: That's what the k bar is made for. And then 65 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 5: you purpose yourself. And the only way I can really 66 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 5: think of this nancy is through my eyes and experience 67 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 5: as a forensic scientist and crime sending investigator death in investigator, 68 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 5: is that I'm trying to create barriers, layers between myself 69 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 5: and the environment in which I'm in. I always go 70 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 5: back to the godfather of forensics, and that is Edmund Lecarte. 71 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 5: Every contact leaves a trace, it's for cards extreme exchange principle. 72 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 5: I think he's probably been exposed to that, at least peripherally. 73 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 5: He understands that construct and so based upon that, he's 74 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 5: trying to keep himself from shedding any kind of evidence 75 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 5: that might fall from him, hair, skin, any fibers off 76 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 5: of his clothing he would commonly wear. And then you 77 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 5: take I don't know, maybe I don't know, let's just 78 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 5: say a Dicky's jumpsuit. Where have I heard that before? 79 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 5: And you pursue yourself in this and then you could 80 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 5: take it off after its bloodship soak Nancy. 81 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: Didn't intend, then why did he go into the hum? Hey? 82 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: You know what, I just want to watch the prosecutor 83 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: choking up again in court and crying. 84 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: As he. 85 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 2: Choked down the words accepting a guilty plea over the 86 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 2: objections of some of the victims' families, who go on 87 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: to call the prosecutor a gutless coward who saved a 88 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: killer's life. Let's watch this again. 89 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 4: On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. Excuse me, miss Coberger 90 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 4: entered the residents of eleven twenty two King Road in Moscow, Idaho. 91 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 4: He did that with the intent to kill. We will 92 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 4: not represent that he intended to commit all of the 93 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 4: murders that he did that night, but we know that 94 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 4: that is what results, and that he then killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately, 95 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 4: with premeditation and with mouse forethought. Manny Mogen Cake. We 96 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 4: consult us, Ethan Chapin and Satak. 97 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: Thank you joining us now. Investigative reporter chaef us reporter 98 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: for Dailymail dot Com. Harmania Rodriguez, Harmonia. What happened in court? 99 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 6: This all really went down very quickly, as you mentioned 100 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 6: half of the victims' families disapproved strongly of this deal, 101 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 6: and they said so before yesterday when it all took 102 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 6: place in court, we saw an ice cold Brian Cooberger 103 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 6: get up, swear that he was going to tell the 104 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 6: truth and really simply replying yes. As the judge went 105 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 6: through the plea deal. As you mentioned, he said the 106 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 6: prosecution said they couldn't be sure how many people he 107 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 6: intended to kill, but in his plea deal, Brian Coberger 108 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 6: said he killed these four young people, he meant to 109 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 6: do so, and he is accepting responsibility for it. However, Nancy, 110 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 6: one of the tragic things about this plea deal is 111 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 6: that it did not require Coburger to tell the world 112 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 6: what really happened, and that was one of the issues 113 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 6: that some of the families have with it. 114 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: Exactly what happened is that Brian Coberger plaed guilty, escaping 115 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 2: the death penalty. Hermione Rodriguez joining us dalemail dot com. 116 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: What were the terms of the deal. 117 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 6: Basically, the defense just wanted to spare Coberger's life. We've 118 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 6: seen them try everything so in exchange for him pleading 119 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 6: guilty to these four murders with no details he now 120 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 6: gets to spend the rest of his life in prison 121 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 6: for life sentences at a maximum security prison. He doesn't 122 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 6: get to appeal his sentence. However, he gets to live 123 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 6: the rest of his life in this prison as the 124 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 6: Famili's meant. He gets to build relationships, he gets to 125 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 6: read books, and he will not face the death penalty. 126 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 127 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: Joining me is Chris McDonough, director of the Cold Case Foundation, 128 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: former homicide detective, intimately familiar with this case, has been 129 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: to the scene multiple times, over three hundred homicides under 130 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: his belt. You can find him now on the interview 131 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: room on YouTube. Chris McDonough, Really, what did that buy me? Nothing? 132 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: Every case gets appealed. Every case, every conviction, every felamy 133 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 2: conviction gets appealed. Done check. So to say oh, we 134 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: did it to avoid an appeal, that's let me just say, 135 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: legal term crap, because you know every case that is 136 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: a conviction appealed. If they cannot afford a new appellant attorney, 137 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: the state will give them an appellant attorney for free. 138 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: So it's no skin off the state's back for the 139 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 2: to say, oh, now there's no chance of appeal that 140 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 2: bought me nothing. So what do you make of what 141 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 2: the prosecutor did? And I'm sick of looking at him 142 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 2: crying in court. Save the tears. The people that are 143 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: crying are the victims' families. So you know what, suck 144 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: it up, man, Go ahead me, Donna. 145 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 7: You know what, Nancy, you are one thousand percent right 146 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:40,239 Speaker 7: once again, this case has been driven by emotional mitigation 147 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 7: for the horror of these events. And I have information 148 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 7: that they met with the AG's office, and the AG's office, 149 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 7: you know, did not invite the families to the table. 150 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 7: They sent that email out with an attachment letter. And 151 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 7: then the discussion was there was half of the victims 152 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 7: families that wanted the deal and have did not. But 153 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 7: the age leaned towards the cost of the trial. Up 154 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 7: to fifteen million dollars was the projection, and so they 155 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 7: went with the state and they left the victims out 156 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 7: to try and part of that deal would be he 157 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 7: would have to write out you know, exactly what he did, 158 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 7: but that information's not available yet and sold. 159 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, please stop, are you saying, yep? That part 160 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 2: of the deal it was a deal for the defendant, 161 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: not for the state or the victims' families. Was that 162 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: Brian Coburger right out what he did? In other words, 163 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 2: I committed murder. I committed murder. What write it out 164 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: five hundred times and it's all over? Are you serious 165 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 2: that I'm going to believe what Ja Coburger says. That 166 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 2: was the deal. That's what I got out of this. 167 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 7: Yeah, that's my understanding as well. Nancy. It's horrible. I mean, 168 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 7: you know, you know more than anybody, how many times 169 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 7: would the guys like me come to you and present 170 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,119 Speaker 7: a death penalty case and you guys have an ethical 171 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 7: responsibility to file a death penalty enhancement with the idea though, 172 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 7: that you're not going to extract the plea? Hey, in 173 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 7: this case, did this da go into this whole thing 174 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 7: knowing he was going to extract the plea all along? 175 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 7: If so, I just find that's disturbing as well. If 176 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 7: that's the case. 177 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 2: I mean, the reality is that you expect straight out 178 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 2: to Andy Kahn joining me, direct to victim Services and 179 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: advocacy crime Stoppers Houston, Texas. They don't play I mean, really, Andy, 180 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: out of this. I gave up a jury trial, right 181 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: the state, not me? The state gave up a jury trial, 182 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 2: gave up ever giving the family answers about what really happened. 183 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 2: They'll never know. You know, Andy Cohn, in my fiance's case, 184 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 2: he was murdered, as you know, shortly before our wedding. 185 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: I know what happened. There was a trial. I know 186 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 2: what happened. He had a summer job on a construction crew. 187 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 2: He was out in a remote rural area building I 188 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: think an office building with the crew. He left it 189 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: lunchtime to go get soft drinks for everybody else. He 190 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 2: comes back in and an angry employee that had just 191 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 2: been fired sees the company truck and opens fire on 192 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 2: Keith and shoots him five times in the neck, the face, 193 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: and the back, and he died. That's what happened. Okay, 194 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: it's been twisted around in the MUNI that's what happened. 195 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: How do I know that because there was a trial 196 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: and they gave all that away so we could get 197 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 2: a I did it. I did it. I did it. 198 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 2: I did it five pages right, one hundred times and 199 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 2: free from Brian Toberger like he's going to tell the truth. 200 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 3: Con I'll tell you, Nancy, I serve on the board 201 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 3: of Parents and murdered children and surviving family members of homicide. 202 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 3: I've been with them for over thirty years. This is 203 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 3: about the ultimate sucker punch that I've seen in my 204 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: over thirty years. What's changed in three years. Nothing. The 205 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 3: defense ran out of options. The decision was made three 206 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 3: years ago to seek death. Nothing changed up until the 207 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 3: time the defense waved their white flag and said we 208 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: give up, we give up, will cut a deal with that? 209 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 3: There's no mitigating factors. Families for the last believe that 210 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 3: a trial was imminent, and for you to say the 211 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: plea deal is in the best interests of everybody. Get real. 212 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 3: To quote someone I know very well that I'm talking 213 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 3: to right now, that's a bunch of bs, and I 214 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 3: have a really big problem with the way this was 215 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 3: handled the plead. Are you sending a form letter that's 216 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 3: really cold, that is about unemotional announcing your decision. Victims' 217 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 3: families deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, and 218 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 3: they deserved better from this prosecution. That death penalty in 219 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 3: this country is so very rarely sought to begin with, 220 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 3: and for those that are truly worthy of the ultimate punishment. 221 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 3: Brian Coburger is at the top of the list right there. 222 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: Why even have a death penalty if. 223 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: You're not I mean, you know, That's what I was 224 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: just about to ask you, Andy Cohn, because and I'm 225 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: not debating death penalty, no death penalty. We have the 226 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: death penalty. So if you've committed to having the death penalty, 227 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: is there a better case than murdering for innocent, unarmed 228 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 2: University Idaho students asleep or sleepy in their beds of 229 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: stock them identifying them, and you, the PERV who have 230 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 2: been googling and searching raping women who are asleep, passed out, comatose. 231 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: You fulfill your fantasy and you murder four people, one 232 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: of them running down the stairs trying to get away 233 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: from you. You chase her down and murder her. So, 234 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 2: if we're going to have the death penalty, what is 235 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: that not the poster case for the DP? 236 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 3: Why have the death penalty if you're not going to 237 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 3: have it for Coburger? Basically, the state of Idaho is 238 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 3: basically abdicated to death penalty for any future cases if 239 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 3: you're not going to do it for Brian Coberger. When 240 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 3: you take four lives, especially in the manner that he did, 241 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 3: this is the only possible outcome. The families now get 242 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 3: zero answers, They get nothing out of this, and basically 243 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 3: you're allowing him to call the shots. The evidence was 244 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 3: so clear and convincing. He slaughtered four young college students. 245 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 3: He deprived one, two, three, four people of their lives, 246 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 3: and you're not going to deprive him of him. Where's 247 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 3: the equity in that. 248 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: Or at least offer it to a jury. This heaping 249 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 2: pain on the victims' families. Now they have this to 250 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 2: carry with them the rest of their lives that the 251 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: state didn't even try. What are they afraid to try? 252 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: At Ace? For Pete's sake. That's your job, man, to 253 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: get in there and do. 254 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: The best you can win or lose. 255 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 2: To Joseph Scott Morgan again the host of a hit 256 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 2: series podcast Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott 257 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 2: explained the injuries to the four victims. 258 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 5: What we know, Nancy, is that these are a collection 259 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 5: of sharp horse injuries. I think people have simply assumed 260 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 5: that they're all stab wounds. We know that based upon 261 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 5: one of the victims, well actually several of them, that 262 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 5: some of these injuries are more than likely in sized 263 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 5: wounds which are slices. So you've got a combination of 264 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 5: both of these. Either way, you have a mill to 265 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 5: blade that is penetrating the skin. Stab wounds the way 266 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 5: we delineate them from in sized wounds is that stab 267 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 5: wounds are deeper than long, and in sized wounds are 268 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 5: longer than deep. So you know, you're a Shakespeare officionado, 269 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 5: you know the what is it death by a thousand cuts? 270 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 5: That idea applies here as well. It's painful, It would 271 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 5: not have gone quickly. This was a very bloody affair, 272 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 5: and you know that. I think therein lies a real tragedy, Nancy, 273 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 5: because he will not be held to account for this 274 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 5: carnage in the sense that we would want him to 275 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 5: be held in account. I'm not talking about the death 276 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 5: penalty here either. I'm talking about having to hear about 277 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 5: this in court and actually what he did so that 278 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 5: it burns into his ears, so that you know, you 279 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 5: think you're reliving it right now. He's you know, in 280 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 5: this kind of fantastic state in his brain. This is 281 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 5: not fantastic, this is reality. He will be able to 282 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 5: sit there and hear what they have to say. But 283 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 5: of course that ain't going to happen. It's never going 284 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 5: to happen now because the DA has offered this fleet. 285 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 5: Well he has been accepted, and we're left wanting correction. 286 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 2: And I so rarely get to do this. But dying 287 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 2: a thousand deaths is from Shakespeare. Death by a thousand 288 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 2: cuts is from Imperial China. But that said, joining me 289 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 2: now in addition to Andy Kahn and renowned Joe Scott Morgan, 290 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crowns is joining US chief medical Examiner Terran County. 291 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: That's Fort Worth never lack a business in their morgue. 292 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: And he is a star of a new podcast set 293 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 2: to launch, Mayhem in the Morgue. He is an esteemed 294 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: lecturer at the Burnette School of Medicine and is joining 295 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 2: us now Doctor Kendall Crowns. Following up on what Joe 296 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 2: Scott Morgan just told us, what actually caused the deaths 297 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 2: of the four students? What did their lungs fill up 298 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 2: with blood and they asphyxiated? Did their heart get slashed? 299 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 2: I mean, how does a knife attack like that end 300 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: up actually killing you as opposed to being wounds that 301 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 2: could be repaired in the ear, so. 302 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 8: In stab wounds and in size wounds, you basically die 303 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 8: from blood loss. They're going to be bleeding from all 304 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 8: these wounds, bleeding out onto the bed or the surface 305 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 8: around them, and also they'll be bleeding internally, so their 306 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 8: chest cavity will fill up with blood and it'll make 307 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 8: it hard for their lungs to expand, which will cause 308 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 8: them to basically suffocate in their own blood. If the 309 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 8: heart is hit, the heart can actually bleed into the 310 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 8: sack surrounding the heart, which is called the paracardial sack, 311 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 8: and that fills up with blood. It makes it hard 312 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 8: for the heart to beat, and you die from heart 313 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 8: failure that way. And then also if there is compromise 314 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 8: where the lungs are stabbed and then it communicates with 315 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 8: the airway, you can be coughing up blood and then 316 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 8: reswallowing the blood and inhaling the blood and dying that way. 317 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 8: So it's a combination of the blood loss with the 318 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 8: possible asshixiation from blood filling the chest cavity, or heart 319 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 8: failure from blood filling the pericardial sack or compromising the heartbeat. 320 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 8: It's any number of things, but it's essentially blood loss. 321 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 5: Tell me exactly what's going on one of the roommates 322 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 5: has passed and she's strong class. 323 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 8: Oh and they tell some man in their health close. 324 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 9: In Moscow, Idaho, with the intent to commit the felony 325 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 9: crime of murder. Yes, did you on November thirteenth, twenty 326 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 9: twenty two, in Leayta County, State of Idaho, kill and 327 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 9: murder Madison Mogan, a human being? 328 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: Yes? 329 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 9: And did you do that willfully and lawfully, deliberately and 330 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 9: with premeditation and meliss a forethought? 331 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 5: Yes? 332 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: Okay, So the state does a deal with the devil, 333 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: the devil being Brian Coburger in this scenario, and for 334 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 2: what to get Brian Coberger's version of what happened that night. 335 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 2: There have been a lot of attacks online and call 336 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 2: bombing the judge in this case. The judge cannot force 337 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 2: the state to go forward with the death penalty. The 338 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 2: judge cannot force the state to go forward on any prosecution. 339 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: The judge can forward a lack of prosecution to the 340 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: state's age to review what's happening within the District Attorney's office, 341 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: But the judge can't make the state do anything. The 342 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 2: state can't make the judge do anything. It's a balance 343 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: of power so everybody call bombing and emailing the judge. 344 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: So just follow this through. Let me bring in Philip Debay, guys, 345 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: our renowned attorney in the LA jurisdiction. Debay, Under our law, 346 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 2: the judge is immune from being forced by the state 347 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 2: or the defense to really do anything. For instance, if 348 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 2: the judge had rejected the plea and said, hey, I 349 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 2: want the death penalty to Hay with this, the state 350 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 2: could have actually just gotten another judge to take the plea. 351 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: The state cannot force the judge cannot force the state 352 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 2: to seek the death penalty. It doesn't work that way. 353 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: Could you explain it, Philip Debate. 354 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 10: Yes, we have what's called the separation of powers, both 355 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 10: at the state and the federal level, and what that 356 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 10: means is we have three coordinate branches of government. We 357 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 10: have the executive branch, which is basically the governor, the 358 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 10: attorney general, and prosecutors. And of course we have the 359 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 10: legislative branch, which at the federal level is Congress. At 360 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 10: the state level we have the legislature, and certainly at 361 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 10: the local level you have your city council. Additionally, we 362 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 10: have the judiciary, which is our courts, and to ensure 363 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 10: that we have this fair balance of power, neither branch 364 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 10: can encroach upon the powers of either wise you get 365 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 10: anarchy and you get an unjust system. And here what 366 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 10: you have is prosecutors within the executive branch alerting the 367 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 10: judiciary that a settlement has been reached. Yes, the court 368 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 10: can reject that settlement agreement, but the prosecution doesn't have 369 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 10: to go forward with penalty. The prosecution can just go 370 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 10: forward with the guilt phase. And if they would have 371 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 10: commit the jury would have come back guilty on all 372 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 10: four homicides, then Brian Coolberger would have got what we 373 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 10: affectionately call LWOP life without parole. So it was a 374 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 10: lose lose for the court, and sadly it is a 375 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 10: lose lose for the victims' families. On the brighter side 376 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 10: of things, though the case is over, he will never 377 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 10: get out. There will be no appeals. They will never 378 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 10: ever be able to decide whether or not the denial 379 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 10: of this motion was accurate, whether or not the Atkins 380 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 10: denial was accurate regarding. 381 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 2: His I don't know that. You don't know any of that. Well, 382 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 2: remember when Charles Manson, remember him psycho freaky killer. Yes, 383 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 2: remember that the Manson murders. There's been a lot of 384 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 2: movies about it. Yes, Charles Manson got the death penalty, 385 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: didn't he didn't he get the death penalty? That's a yes, yes, okay. 386 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 2: He got sentenced to the death penalty. And what happened 387 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: The law changed? The law changed, right, yes, and suddenly 388 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 2: the death penalty was gone, and he came up over 389 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 2: and over and over to be released on parole. Can 390 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: you just agree to that much? Debate? I know you'll 391 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: want to fight with me, but isn't that much true? 392 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 5: Yes, it is true? 393 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 2: Okay, straight to Andy Kahn joining US Director of Victim 394 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 2: Services and Advocacy for Crime Stoppers Houston. Andy Kahn, remember 395 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 2: that moment when all the laws were reversed and Charles 396 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 2: Manson got life? The law was changed. Now, I understand 397 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 2: what debate is saying, and I agree with him, believe 398 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 2: it or not, to a certain extent. But we don't 399 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 2: know what wild hair is going to get up the 400 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 2: rear ends of the Idaho Assembly, do we or the 401 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 2: federal government. We don't know what's going to happen. But 402 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 2: I do know if Coburger is put to death, that 403 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 2: cannot be reversed. You know, who's to say or who's 404 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 2: not to say that in ten years somebody would rule. 405 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: I know it sounds crazy that life behind bars is 406 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 2: cruel and unusual. It's already been argued thousands of times 407 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 2: that that's cruel and unusual punishment, life behind bars without parole, 408 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: it's already been argued. Who's to say some crazy judge 409 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 2: doesn't go along with it and he walks. No one 410 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 2: is to say that. 411 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 3: We've seen this time and time again, and I tell 412 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 3: victims families, look, here's reality. Life without parole today doesn't 413 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 3: necessarily mean it's going to be life without parole ten 414 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 3: twenty years from now. And we've seen this repeated over 415 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 3: and over again. The other thing that we are now 416 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 3: seeing right now is so called elderly mercy release, and 417 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 3: particularly in the state of New York, where they're looking 418 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 3: at everyone from the ages of fifty five and over 419 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 3: for potential parole, including a serial killer by the name 420 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 3: of David Berkowitz. So again, it sounds good on the premise, 421 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 3: life without parole. You're never going to breathe free air again. 422 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 3: That's it. You don't have to worry about this appeal. 423 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: That appeal. 424 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 7: But I have seen it. 425 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 3: You have seen it. Things change, jurisdictions changed, and this 426 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 3: is why you're going to have to keep a close 427 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 3: abs on this, you know right now today. The bottom 428 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 3: line from my perspective in this case is you let 429 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 3: a cold blood and murderer win. You allowed him to 430 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 3: call the shots, You allowed him to dictate his own terms, 431 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 3: including I don't have to say any thing except for 432 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 3: one word. Yes. That's going to come back and haunt 433 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 3: the state of Idaho, and it's going to come back 434 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 3: and haunt victims' families for years down a road debate. 435 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 2: I know that you're a great trial lawyer. I know 436 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: you in a lot of cases for criminals to walk free. 437 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: I can't stop that. I know you've got a great 438 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 2: singing voice since he burst out into song at Christmas 439 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: with Oh Holy Night. I know that, but I didn't 440 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: know you were a clairvoyant. Please go get your crystal 441 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 2: ball and your turban, because I want to see you 442 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 2: predict that the law won't change regarding life with that 443 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 2: parole or mercy for the elderly and Coburger never walks free. 444 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: Okay waiting, Oh, are you going to read the tea leaves? 445 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 2: Would that work? Better for you. It'll never check tarot cards. 446 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 2: Never mind tarot cards, go ahead. 447 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 3: It'll never change in the state of Idaho. 448 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 10: It might if you were a youthful offender at the 449 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 10: time of the crime, but he was, what a ripe 450 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 10: twenty nine years old, so it's not as if he 451 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 10: was deprived of. 452 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 11: A review of all the youthful factors. 453 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: So you are a clairvoyant pretty much. 454 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 10: And it's based on statistics. It's based on what's going 455 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 10: on across the country. 456 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 2: You and Scott Peterson. You and Scott Peterson. Oh yeah, 457 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 2: O J. Simpson and his dream sequence that he really 458 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 2: killed Nicole Brown. I didn't need his dream to tell 459 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 2: me that. So you are of sorts of clairvoyant. Con 460 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 2: I'm giving you the last word on that. 461 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 3: We're seeing it right now, at least in several states 462 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 3: where they're taking a look at anyone from the ages 463 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 3: of fifty five or older, no matter what the actual 464 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 3: sentence is, for potential senior reliefs based upon the age factor. 465 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 3: So what's happening. You can't say unequivocally that life without 466 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 3: parole for Coleberger means he will never get out, because 467 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 3: we're watching it right now and. 468 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 11: A greatment of the He only negotiated with you before. 469 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 3: I was the old person not to negotiating. 470 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 5: He didn't give us a cooloder, seated. 471 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 11: To negotiate with us, even pretend he could have just 472 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 11: descended in light. But he didn't even pretend. He basically said, 473 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 11: your guys is input. 474 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 12: Is it. 475 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 476 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 2: I'm just not reporting it. I want you to hear 477 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 2: from killer Gonsovis's father, who has been very open about 478 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: the raw pain he has been enduring since his daughter 479 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 2: was murdered. Take a listen to mister Gonsal. 480 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 11: He's gonna own this. He's gonna inherit what Thompson did, 481 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 11: and he's the only one that can fix it. He's 482 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 11: the only one who can't make it right. He needs 483 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 11: to protect those other surviving victims and make this person 484 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 11: say that they had nothing to do with it. He 485 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 11: did it solely, He did it all on his own 486 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 11: and nobody else was responsible, and then we won't keep 487 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 11: having this the supporters always saying that he you know, 488 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 11: he got set up, we know what he's planning on doing. 489 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 11: Somebody died, if that died, and he's going to try 490 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 11: to say that you put the blame on that person, 491 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 11: so he's not going to take accountability. And Compson didn't force. 492 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 7: Him to take accountability. 493 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 11: He didn't even negotiate it. 494 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 2: According to the Gunslvices and others, none of them were consulted. 495 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 2: No one had any input. And to the prosecutor who 496 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: wrote down crying in court when he did it deal 497 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: with the devil, listen. 498 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 11: And agreement, because the he only negotiated with the earner 499 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 11: A call you over the court. 500 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 5: I was the offen person, not really negotiating. He didn't 501 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 5: give us the public aggreciated. 502 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 13: To negotiate with us. 503 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 11: He even pretend he could have just descended in line, 504 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 11: but he didn't even pretend. He basically said, your. 505 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 2: Guys is straight out to Harmonia Rodriguez, the chief US 506 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 2: reporter for dailymail dot com, what happens now, Harmonia. 507 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 6: Well, we're gonna have still a sensus in hearing where 508 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 6: hopefully the victims' families will get a chance to tell 509 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 6: Brian Coberger what these horrific crimes have done in their lives. 510 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: Coburger should also. 511 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 6: Have a chance to say anything if he so chooses, 512 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 6: but from what we have seen, he doesn't have much 513 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 6: to say. In court he only said yes with no expression, 514 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 6: and then finally he will be moved to a maximum 515 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 6: security prison for worst of the worst. It's actually where 516 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 6: a lot of uh there's also a death row. It's 517 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 6: where Chad day Bell, the cult leader or also serial killer, 518 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 6: is held and he will be there for his life 519 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 6: according to the plea deal. Though I know, as you said, 520 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 6: there's a possibility that who knows in the future what 521 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 6: could happen, and he could be released the. 522 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 2: Only way he wouldn't be released as if he was 523 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 2: put to death. Okay, because we know, Harmonia, the law 524 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 2: can change, because it has changed post sentencing in murder cases. 525 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 2: And the one I gave you Charles Manson is just 526 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 2: one example. But two special guests joining us. In addition 527 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 2: to Harmonia Rodriguez, doctor Chavon Scott, psychotherapist. She's a best 528 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 2: selling author. Her newest release is night Bird. She also 529 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 2: wrote The Minds of mass Killers, Understanding and Interrupting the 530 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 2: Pathways to Violence, Good Luck with That and Game Addiction, 531 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 2: The Experience and the Effects. Doctor Javon Scott, thank you 532 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 2: for being with us. I asked Harmania Rodriguez from dailymail 533 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 2: dot com what happens now and she was correct. Well, 534 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 2: there's a lot more to that story. This is what happens. 535 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 2: Brian Coburger will do a book deal. The Son of 536 00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 2: Sam laws were reversed by the US Supreme Court. All right. 537 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 2: People think, oh, they can't profit, Well, in many jurisdictions 538 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 2: they can unless the state has enacted its own state 539 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 2: claim against it. He'll write a book, there will be 540 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 2: a made for TV movie. There will probably be another 541 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 2: movie about his side of the story, his memoirs. It 542 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 2: will talk about his childhood, how isolated he felt, and 543 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 2: so forth and so on. He's going to have penpals 544 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 2: behind bars. Women are going to try and have conjugal 545 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 2: visits with him. I mean, look at Luigi Mangioni. Right. 546 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 2: There is a group out there called the Proburgers that 547 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 2: support Brian Coburger. They will send him money. He may 548 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 2: even get married behind bars like Youord van der Slut. 549 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 2: He's had I think two children from behind bars. He 550 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 2: has drugs, he has alcohol, he has women, he has parties. 551 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 2: That is what is going to happen now. And I 552 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 2: predict this, doctor Schavon Scott, that one day there will 553 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 2: be a big symposium, a conference of krim pro criminal 554 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 2: procedure students, much like you teach Joe Scott Morgan, and 555 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 2: the guest of honor will be zoomed in from the 556 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 2: penitentiary and that renowned guest will be Brian Coburger, where 557 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 2: he will develop even more groupies. That's what's going to happen. Yeah, 558 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 2: a perverse celebrity. And when we look at it from 559 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 2: the point of view that you just laid. 560 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 14: Out for us, he has a far richer life than 561 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 14: he ever had free, which is very twisted, but I 562 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 14: think you're right. He's now in the ranks of Bundy, 563 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 14: one of his idols, and it's sickening. It's absolutely sickening 564 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 14: and disturbing. And I can only imagine how the families 565 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 14: feel because they were given no sense of control over 566 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 14: any of this, which I think is really important for 567 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 14: their healing to have a sense of control here. 568 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 2: Why do you say that. I'm very curious because I 569 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 2: distinctly remember. I don't know that the prosecutor does, but 570 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 2: I remember, and Keith's family remembers. Before my fiance's murder 571 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 2: trial ever happened, the prosecutor came and spoke to us 572 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 2: about what he thought was the best course of action 573 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,320 Speaker 2: and how we felt about it and what was our input. 574 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 2: I was so out of it. I've just, you know, 575 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 2: hardly even remember all the words that were said. But 576 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 2: I remember the gist of the conversation. I remember what 577 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 2: went down. I remember what Keith's parents said, and we did. 578 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 2: They did have that control to an extent. I mean, 579 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 2: the family doesn't get to call the witnesses or put 580 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 2: up the evidence, but they can steer the ship, right 581 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 2: if they want to. You how does control help anything? 582 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 14: I think the act of having your loved ones murdered 583 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 14: is I mean, we're also protective of our kids, right, 584 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 14: It's just we want to have some benign, benevolent control 585 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 14: over the way their lives go. We want to protect them, 586 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 14: and to have your kids murdered in this kind of way, 587 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 14: that psychological need is just ripped away from you. And 588 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 14: I think it's just important to feeling some kind of 589 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 14: emotional stability again, to feel like, Okay, this horrible thing happened. 590 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 14: I'm completely devastated. This has changed my identity forever, change 591 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 14: the trajectory of my life. But at least I get 592 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:51,320 Speaker 14: this little bit of power over this, you know, search 593 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 14: for justice, this attempt to get some kind of justice here. 594 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 14: And I think it's a psychological need that most people have. 595 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 2: Andy Kahn, director of Victim Services in Houston through Crime Stoppers. Andy, 596 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 2: what's happened here, if it can even be imagined, is 597 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 2: after losing their child to whom they poured in all 598 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 2: their love, all their money, all their time, their hopes, 599 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 2: their dreams. Yeah, I mean, I've got a life, but 600 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 2: come on, Andy, you know about my twins. They're my 601 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 2: life now, they are my life, No pressure, twins. But 602 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 2: to have that ripped away, number one. Then to have 603 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 2: it ripped away the way that they were murdered, that 604 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 2: they were murdered at all, but then the way that 605 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 2: they were murdered, then the way the victims have been 606 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 2: dragged through the mud is being partiers and horrors and 607 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 2: sluts and blah blah blah. They were out too late, 608 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 2: they were drinking. Oh no, that whole thing happened, and 609 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 2: now this behind their backs. You heard Gon Solvus, He 610 00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 2: wasn't consulted. 611 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 3: What an emotion old roller coaster for all these families. 612 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 3: And you let a wanna be budding, Ted Bundy, I'm 613 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,399 Speaker 3: going to be a serial killer, beats you and that's 614 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 3: the reality right there. And you haven't heard the last 615 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 3: of Brian Koberger because guess what exactly what you were 616 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 3: saying earlier. He is going to talk, but he's going 617 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 3: to do it on his own terms. He is going 618 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 3: to write his memoirs. For my knowledge right now, I 619 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 3: don't see anything in the perspective plea deal preventing him 620 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 3: from meeting with journalists, from sending out submissions, from talking 621 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 3: about himself. And as someone who's been basically monitoring what 622 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 3: we now call murder Abelia, and that's items that are 623 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 3: sold from high profile defendants, killers, serial killers on the 624 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 3: open market, he's about to become the new Dar. 625 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 2: A deal goes down in a court of law, a 626 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 2: deal with the devil. The prosecutor in the Brian Coburger 627 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 2: case actually crying in court, choking on his words, and 628 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 2: he should have according to the victims' families. Joining me 629 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 2: now special guest doctor Dwayne Hendrix. Doctor Hendrix, former warden 630 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 2: at the NBC in Brooklyn that's now Piece of Cake, 631 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 2: but also served as warden and Sheridan, Oregon, former senior 632 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 2: warden with the US Department of Justice, with the Federal 633 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 2: Bureau of prisons, founder president of a New Daylight Foundation, 634 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 2: author of who Are You See It? Say It Sees It? 635 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 2: Doctor Dwayne Hendrix, who shot to fame during the Sean 636 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 2: Combs investigation. Doctor Hendrix, what can you tell me about 637 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 2: where Coburger will be housed? Most likely? 638 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 12: Yeah, he'll be housed at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution 639 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,839 Speaker 12: near COONa, Idaho, which is nearly six hours from where 640 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,720 Speaker 12: he brutally murdered those four beautiful souls. 641 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 2: It has. 642 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,800 Speaker 12: The maximum security prison has capacity of five hundred and 643 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 12: forty nine inmates, and he'll be one of over one 644 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 12: hundred and thirty individuals serving a life sentence without parole. 645 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 12: His day to day activities will be very routine and 646 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 12: focused on stringent security, as maximum security facilities has the 647 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 12: greatest amount of focus on security and restricted movement. And 648 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 12: while the Idaho Department Corrections website doesn't clearly explicitly talk 649 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 12: about what programming is available to those who are incarcerated there, 650 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 12: I would beg to guess that he'll probably be involved 651 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 12: in some cognitive behavior therapy as well as mental health treatment. 652 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 12: And additionally, he will be able to visit on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 653 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 12: and Sundays, and I was listening to the conversations earlier 654 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:57,839 Speaker 12: with the other guests. 655 00:42:58,239 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 5: There is no. 656 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 12: Conjugal visits at this particular maximum secuity. 657 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 2: That's what they all say. And yet women get pregnant, 658 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 2: don't they? 659 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 12: Yes, they do, and typically that's probably due to a 660 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 12: staff member, a volunteer, or someone that's coming or a 661 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 12: contractor coming into those institutions. 662 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 2: That does happen, Hendrix. Doctor Hendrix, you know how I 663 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 2: feel about you. But I'm calling objection bs because you 664 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,319 Speaker 2: know what, I just covered a case where the jail 665 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 2: house seems stress. Please remind me of the name of that. Wait, 666 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 2: it's all coming to me, Casey White. Wasn't that the 667 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:41,280 Speaker 2: defensive Yeah, the jail house seamstress goes in a closet 668 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:47,399 Speaker 2: and has affairs sex with a convicted felon. You think 669 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,399 Speaker 2: that was sanctioned. No, it wasn't. And it all ended 670 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 2: at an escape with her helping and a shootout. Thank you, 671 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 2: thank you. 672 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: It happened. 673 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 2: It happens all the time where your inmates get women pregnant. 674 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 2: You do know about the birds and the bees, right, 675 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 2: doctor Henderson, You do know where babies come from? I 676 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 2: think you do don't you. 677 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 12: Yes, ma'am, I do. I have four beautiful children. 678 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,439 Speaker 2: We pick them up at Walmart. Hendrix, you didn't pick 679 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:23,280 Speaker 2: them up at Walmart. Okay. So women get pregnant by inmates, 680 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 2: however you want to claim it happens. It happens. I 681 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 2: don't care. If it's an employee, I don't care. If 682 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 2: it's a warden, I don't care. If it's a seamstress. 683 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 2: It happens. They Isn't it true? They get drugs and 684 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 2: alcohol and other contraband behind bars that say yes, no, Hendrix, Yes, 685 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 2: it is. 686 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 12: Everything that happens in the community happens behind those walls 687 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 12: in the prison setting. It happens every day, and fortunately 688 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 12: there to be more. 689 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 2: Yes, drugs, every alcohol, sex. They get tablets. We saw sadly. 690 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 2: I hate to bring it up, conjured up for your mind, 691 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 2: but I saw Alex on Double Killer in a shirtless selfie. 692 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 2: Why did I have to see that from behind bars? 693 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 2: Because he had a tablet? They get movie. Now, you 694 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 2: said they have visits and therapy, visits and therapy. Dave 695 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 2: mac joining me Crime Story's investigative reporter. What is he saying? 696 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 13: What they've got, Nancy is when you get into this 697 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 13: maximum security where Coburger is going to be. He's going 698 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 13: to have a life, Nancy. That's the saddest part of 699 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 13: all of this. He has access to everything that you 700 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 13: would pretty much have on the outside. 701 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 2: He's got his. 702 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 13: Own room, he'll have his own private area. He'll have 703 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 13: an hour a day to go out and do whatever 704 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 13: recreation he chooses to do. He can go to the 705 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,680 Speaker 13: library and multipurpose room and go outside. He'll have access 706 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 13: to his own TV. He'll have his tablet like you 707 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 13: were talking about. We've seen that so many times he 708 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 13: watched older movies. His vegan diet, Nancy, you know that's 709 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 13: something that hasn't been talking about lately. 710 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 2: Well, it will be totally making me choke again. Wait 711 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 2: a minute up, Wait, doctor Dwayne Hendrix, did you not 712 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 2: hear what Dave mac just said, vegan diet? Yes, you 713 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,840 Speaker 2: do know they're going to give him special meals, right Hendrix? 714 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 12: Yes, if he is not on a flesh diet, if 715 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 12: they call it common fare in the prison setting. Uh. 716 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 12: And basically he'll he'll get vegetables, fruits, and protein. 717 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 5: He'll he'll be on a no flesh diet. That's what 718 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 5: we would call it. We didn't call it Beacon, We 719 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 5: call it no flesh. 720 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 2: Okay, stop everything, just stop everything, Doctor Kendall Crowns, You, 721 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 2: of course, are a renowned medical examiner, the esteemed lecturer 722 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 2: at the Burnette School of Medicine. You're the star of 723 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 2: a podcast about to launch Mayhem and the Morgue. You've 724 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 2: handled mass killings, You've seen what happens to the victims. 725 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,480 Speaker 2: Are you hearing this, Doctor Kendall crown That Brian Coburger 726 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,800 Speaker 2: is going to get to watch movies, have visitation therapy 727 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,799 Speaker 2: and special meals prepared for him. As he writes his memoirs, thoughts. 728 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 8: Well, it is the unfortunate way that our legal system, 729 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,360 Speaker 8: in our justice system works in which the murderer and 730 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,839 Speaker 8: the perpetrator of the violence and the terror on individuals 731 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,960 Speaker 8: is allowed to then have a very comfortable life in 732 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 8: a basically a hotel and given anything and everything they want. 733 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 2: It is what it is, movie night, special vegan meals, visitations, memoirs. 734 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,719 Speaker 2: That's what Brian Coburger will be doing behind bars while 735 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 2: the victims' families not only remember their murdered children, but 736 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:57,160 Speaker 2: deal with the pain of being ambushed. According to them, 737 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 2: several of them, they had no idea this plea deal 738 00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 2: was in the works and they oppose it. So doctor 739 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 2: Dwayne Hendricks joining us former warden, you didn't tell me 740 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:13,240 Speaker 2: about movie night, did you? Or special meals? What happened 741 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,120 Speaker 2: to that? What's he going to do next week? Have 742 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 2: yoga therapy? No? What may be a facial and a massage? 743 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,800 Speaker 2: Oh wait, a mud bath? What's next for him? Is 744 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 2: he going to have a secretary taking down his memoirs? 745 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:27,920 Speaker 2: Does he dictates? 746 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 3: No? 747 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 12: But he might have an inmate that might want to 748 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 12: take the notes for him. If a selmate might want 749 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,840 Speaker 12: to do that. But in terms of just his meals, 750 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,880 Speaker 12: I mean, if he doesn't want to eat me, he 751 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,799 Speaker 12: doesn't have to. And the crazy thing out of all 752 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:47,799 Speaker 12: of this, most individual serving life sentences. For every year 753 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,279 Speaker 12: that they're you know, every year they're incarcerated, you can 754 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,959 Speaker 12: typically take two years off their life. And I hope 755 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 12: I'm not speaking out a turn a doc who's the 756 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,600 Speaker 12: medical examiner, But if this guy is going to be 757 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:05,040 Speaker 12: living a somewhe healthy lifestyle, writing books, enjoying himself behind bars, 758 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,680 Speaker 12: this is another sort of slapping the face to the 759 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 12: families who most of them who objected to this plea 760 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 12: agreement and not him not having the death penalty. 761 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,560 Speaker 2: We wait as justice unfolds, and now we remember an 762 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:24,839 Speaker 2: American hero, Officer Patricio Samaripa, Dallas PD, just thirty two, 763 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 2: shot in the line of duty, survived by grieving wife Christy, 764 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:38,800 Speaker 2: daughter Lincoln, stepson Dylan. American hero Officer Patricio Samaripa. Nancy 765 00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:39,400 Speaker 2: gray SONI