1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The other day, Lucy, my 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: little eleven year old twin girl. Lucy asked me, Mom, 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: am I ever going to get to take a walk alone? Okay? 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: Of course the answer is no, But I went, of course, honey, 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: why would you not be able to take a walk alone? 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: Of course I'm going to be following her behind bushes 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: in my Gillie suit the whole time. But imagine if 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: she said, Mom, guess what I'm gonna get And I've 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: also like a minivan with my boyfriend and we're going 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: to drive all across the US in Canada. No, but 11 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: of course you had to say yes when they get 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: to the age of twenty four and you have to 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: let them go, right. I imagine that's what the parents 14 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: of China d sage four and Lucas Fowler, her boyfriend, 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: age twenty three. But that's what their parents thought when 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: they let them go. They were found dead on the 17 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: side of a road, apparently having trouble with their van, 18 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: and whoever stopped to quote help them murdered them. And 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: that leads me to the names of the two so 20 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: called baby Faced killers. Two guys. Briar Schmigelski, eighteen and 21 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: Cam mccloyd nineteen, who not only are suspected of killing 22 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: these two innocent tourists, but also a college professor, Leonard Dike, 23 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: age sixty four. In the last hours, a stunning break 24 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: in the case. I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 25 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Take a listen to 26 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: our longtime friend Matt Gutman at ABC. That Canada wide 27 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: search for those two murder suspects ended with the discovery 28 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: of what are believed to be the remains on Friday 29 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: August second. That one critical piece of evidence was found. 30 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: Items directly linked to the suspects were located on the 31 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: shoreline of the Nelson River. That evidence was this damaged boat. 32 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: It took only a few more days to find their bodies. 33 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 1: Now Canadian authorities tom tell us that a corner will 34 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: determine how and when those two murder suspects died. That's right. 35 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: The so called baby faced teen serial killers who murder 36 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: an American backpacker tourist aged twenty four and her boyfriend 37 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: twenty three, and a sixty four year old father of 38 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 1: two have now been found dead in the wilderness after 39 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: out running and outsmarting the cops for two weeks. Two 40 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: male bodies found by a river in Manitoba. Police say 41 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: they believe they are the bodies of Brier Schmagilski eighteen 42 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: Camlploid nineteen. An autopsy will not only confirm their identities 43 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: but the cod cause of death. The two on the 44 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: run throughout northern Canada, leading police on a wild goose 45 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: chase for the last fifteen days. The two wanted for 46 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: the murders of a young couple and a college professor, 47 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: a botanist, and just hearing that, I can guarantee you 48 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: the professor didn't start it a botanist. Really, why straight 49 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,119 Speaker 1: out to crime online dot Com investigative reporter Dave mac Dave, 50 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: what happened, Nancy? As we followed this case. We followed 51 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: it from when these two young teenage guys were actually 52 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: reported as missing and maybe endangered, and we had the 53 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: young couple, the North Carolina woman and the guy from Canada, 54 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: and then the professor, the college professor. When those murders 55 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: took place, we started switching from Hey, these teenagers are 56 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: possible victims of a serial killer. Two they are the 57 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: suspects that began an international manhunt. Two burned out cars. 58 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: Three people were dead and they end up in them 59 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: at the end of the line in the most remote 60 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: area they could possibly find in Manitoba. But last weekend 61 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: finding that johnboat that can that you know, rafting boat 62 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: if you gonna call it was a loom. It looked 63 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: like an aluminium johnboat to me. They found it damaged 64 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: by the side of the river, and that was the 65 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: start that they had an idea that maybe those guys 66 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: were nearby. Right now, we don't even know the condition 67 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: of the bodies. We don't know anything about them, you know, 68 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: because when I was first looking at this as it 69 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: started breaking, I thought, well were they did they kill themselves? 70 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: Did they die? Did they drown in the river? And 71 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: they just found them on the side of the river. 72 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: You know, their bodies could be found in any kind 73 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: of situation, and we just don't know. We know that 74 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: the bodies were found together, we do know that. We 75 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: don't know if it was a murder suicide. We don't 76 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: know if they both were attacked by a bear. We 77 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: don't know if they were if they drowned and pulled 78 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: themselves out of the water, or if they drowned in 79 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: the water. And you know, ended up on the side bank, floating. 80 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: We just don't know. After two weeks on the lamb, 81 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: after three dead bodies that we know of, how do 82 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: we land here. Our officers have worked tirelessly to find 83 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: the suspects wanted in connection to the homicides in British Columbia. 84 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: While there were no confirmed sightings since July twenty second, 85 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: we never gave up in our search efforts, falling up 86 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: on every lead, considering all options and using every available resource. 87 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: We knew that we needed just to find that one 88 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 1: piece of evidence that could move this search forward. On Friday, 89 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: August two, that one critical piece of evidence was found. 90 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: Items directly linked to the suspects were located on the 91 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: shoreline of the Nelson River. Following this discovery, we were 92 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: at last able to narrow down the search. We immediately 93 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: sent and specialized our SMP teams to begin searching nearby 94 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: high probability areas. This morning, at approximately ten am, our 95 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: SAMP officers located two male bodies in the dense brush 96 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: within one colomb from where the items were found. This 97 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: is approximately eight kilometers from where the burnt vehicle was located. 98 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: At this time, we believe these are the bodies of 99 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: the two suspects wanted in connection with the homicides in 100 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: British Columbia. An autopsy is being scheduled in Winnipeg to 101 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: confirm their identities and to determine their cause of death. 102 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: Joining me an all star lineup Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney. 103 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of Bare Bones Consulting. Karen 104 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: Starts psychologists out of Manhattan. You can find her at 105 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: Karenstart dot com and joining me right now Crime online 106 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Ellen Killlauren Ellen. I want to 107 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: start at the beginning. What happened July fifteenth. The bodies 108 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: of a young couple, Lucas Fowler and his girlfriend, China Geese, 109 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: who from North Carolina, who were traveling together on a 110 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: road trip, are found shot to death and a remote 111 00:06:54,680 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: area of Highway ninety seven. Four days later, a burned 112 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: body is found about a mile away from a burned 113 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: out pickup trucks about three hundred miles away. Tell me 114 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,679 Speaker 1: about these two victims. I know one as an American girl. 115 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: It was on kind of a dream road trip with 116 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: her fiance. They're both, of course gorgeous he's from I 117 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: think Australia. They're seeing the world, I think, traveling in 118 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: a van and suddenly nobody hears from them, and that's 119 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: when their bodies are found. What do you know about them? 120 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: That's all correct, Nancy, what you said, Um, Lucas Filer 121 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: was an Australian native. His father is actually a police officer. 122 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: They had been together for a couple of years. They 123 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: both loved to travel, they loved each other, and that's 124 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: what they were doing. The very last thing that the 125 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: very last image that we saw of them was at 126 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: a gas station not long before they were murdered, and 127 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: they're they're in an embrace. What about the girl? She 128 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: is from North Carolina, She's an American. She met her 129 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: her boyfriend while they were traveling because that's what they 130 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: both loved to do, and she joined him on a 131 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: road trip in through the country of Canada. Ka's referring 132 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: to China. Decee just twenty three years old of North Carolina. 133 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: The boyfriend, Lucas Fowler twenty four years old, dad a cop. 134 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: How does Leonard Dike, sixty five of Vancouver fit into 135 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: this scenario? Eka? Leonard Dike again, someone who would not 136 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: have had any enemies. He was a university professor. He 137 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: is a botanist, and his body is found four days 138 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: after Lucas and China Burns. Take a listen to what 139 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: the father of one of the two, as they are 140 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,599 Speaker 1: called baby Face suspects, has to say. They hung on 141 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: it all the time. Briar never had Cam stay at 142 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: his mom's house, war or his grandmothers. It was always 143 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: at Cam's place or had a few other close friends 144 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: and they'd have their campouts and all that. I don't 145 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: know much. I don't want to caps Camp's family. Okay, 146 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: so I know they're hurting as much as I am. 147 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: I know they're very confused. All I can say is 148 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: my son did not have any real guns. My son 149 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: did not have a vehicle. My son does not know 150 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: how to rife. He was very introverted and he was 151 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: very heavy into video games. When he came to work 152 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: for me for the summer, I didn't pay him and 153 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: I just had a very expensive customer computer for him, 154 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: which he was quite content with. You know, he wasn't 155 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: into the ones where you know, you have your machine 156 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: gun and go shooting people. He was more into strategy 157 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: where you move your troops here and there. So how 158 00:09:48,559 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: did two seemingly innocent boys end up like this? Crime 159 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: Stories with me Itzy Greece, breaking developments north of the 160 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: border and a manhood for two teenagers wanted for the 161 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: depths of three people, including an American woman and her boyfriend. 162 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: After weeks of searching, Canadian authorities believed they found the 163 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: bodies of the suspects. The bodies discovered about two thousand 164 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: miles from where the victims were found. Welcome back everybody, Ambiency, Grace, 165 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 166 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: Taking us to our friends at Sky News Australia. This 167 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: is Christie Culture Royal Canadian Mounted Police say the two 168 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: bodies found near a burnt out van in dense bushland 169 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: in the Manitoba region, along to nineteen year old Cam 170 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: McCloud and eighteen year old BRYERSH mcgilsky. The pair had 171 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: been on the run for just over three weeks. The 172 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: pair had last been seen three thousand kilometers away from 173 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: those bodies in a small town of Gillam on July 174 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: twenty second. That's the last siding that police had of 175 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: the pen. They recently found several of their items near 176 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: a river bank in the Manitoba region that allowed place 177 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: to bring in their search area and now find those bodies. 178 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 1: There's obviously a certain amount of relief that we were 179 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: able to locate these people and hopefully bring some closure 180 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: not only to the victims of the homicides, but to 181 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: the people of Guild and Fox like Creation York Landing, 182 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: Wilfrid warlike Nake. It's it's huge to be able to 183 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: hopefully give some people an opportunity to exhale Christie culture. 184 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: Breaking down the discovery of two dead bodies as we 185 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: wait on a full autopsy. But how did these two 186 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: so called babyface killers ages just eighteen and nineteen, their 187 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: parents swearing they were quote good boys, take a listen 188 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: to our friends at ABC. They were accused of shooting 189 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: American China dies and her boyfriend Lucas found point blank 190 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: in July fifteenth, then driving to another part of British 191 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: Columbia and murdering this college professor. Those that's sparking a 192 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: message Big in Manitoba spotted the pair, ending the rav four. 193 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: The two were believed to have stolen. The two so 194 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: called baby Faced killers. I don't know have they even 195 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: got that nickname to Jason Oceans joining me right now, 196 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: renowned defense attorney joining me out of New York, New 197 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: Jersey area. Jason, monikers are attached to killers, and I 198 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: don't like that because somehow it's seemingly takes away from 199 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: the reality. Nancy, I agree with you. I hate that that, 200 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: you know, sort of connotation of baby face. It just 201 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: it does take away from being, you know, an accused murder, 202 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: multiple murders, and you know, leading US, leading authorities on 203 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: thousands of miles of chase and keeping people up at 204 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: bay in their own homes. This is rural Canada. Uh, 205 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: you know, greater than in the size of the United 206 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: States and thirty million people. Most of this land out 207 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: here in the west is uninhabited. Hey, Jason, you know 208 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: that my Hallmark movies and they're not mine, they're Hallmarks, 209 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: but The Hilly Dean based on my books. They are 210 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: shot up in Vancouver, and it's beautiful, beautiful country up there, 211 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: but you go long, long stretches where you don't see anybody. Jason, 212 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: I mean, these two it's like looking for a needle 213 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: in a haystack. They're in the continental divide. I mean, 214 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. I mean in between you know, the 215 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: coast of Vancouver and nothingness. It's beautiful, but it's just 216 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: wide open. And the amount of law enforcement, the resources, 217 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: those who know, getting posters up, that type of stuff 218 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: that we do here, and you know in the states 219 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: out there, it's escaping them. You know. I want to 220 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: go back to Karen start psychologists joining me out of 221 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: New York. These two have gotten the name I'm talking 222 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: about the alleged killer Schmigelski Anne McLoyd. They're young, that's true, 223 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: but the name baby face killer. You know, why do 224 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: we glamorize killers? Like what about all those women throwing 225 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: themselves at that low moron Chris Watts who kills his 226 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: wife Shanan and his two babies. Charles Manson getting love letters? 227 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: That Jody Arius, the Jezebel from hell, She's getting love 228 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: letters and marriage offers. I don't get it. Why are 229 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: they the baby face killers? You know? Think about it. 230 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: You go on a road trip, Karen Stark, you with me, 231 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: because I don't hear a peep out of you. I'm listening, Nancy, 232 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: I'm right there. Karen Stark, you and your husband Mark 233 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: go all over the world. Every time I see Karen's talking. 234 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, what, Steve, Well, we went to Rome, and 235 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: we went to Monica and went to con I'm like, 236 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: what all I did was go to work? Tell me 237 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: about I can live through you think about it. You're 238 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: at one of your many, many luxurious vacations and your 239 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: dry along with Mark, your beloved husband, and bam, these 240 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: two idiots pop up out of nowhere. They are not 241 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: baby face killers. Why are we saying that there's nothing 242 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: baby faced about them? There? These are like three killers, 243 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: Nancy are These are killers who they don't take the 244 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: time to cool down between their killings, so that just 245 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: encourages them to go from one to the next, and 246 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: they encourage each other. Usually in a situation like this, 247 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: one of them is more dominant and the other one 248 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: more passive. But they have revenge fantasies. As the father said, 249 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: one was very introverted and on social media had a 250 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: lot of Nazi symbolism. And they are not they be 251 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: innocent to be admired killers. They are cold blooded killers 252 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: who are having a really good time out there killing 253 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: people that they don't know, just to get revenge and 254 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: excitement out of their systems. Revenge for what they didn't 255 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: even know these people. What are you talking about? This 256 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: revenge against society? They feel disenfranchise against society, my rear end. 257 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: They have had homes, they have been cared for, they 258 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: have been given three meals a day and education. Revenge 259 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: for what? That's not the reality in their minds. In 260 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: their minds, they're disenfranchised. In their mind they have jobs, 261 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: they lose them. And you notice they're supposedly going out 262 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: there to look for jobs. So they're not feeling very powerful. 263 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: They are feeling like they can't keep you know, the 264 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: offense whoa wait, wait, wait wait, I want to pick 265 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: up on something you said now, no offense Jason Oceans 266 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: and here in the studio, Elie and John, no offense 267 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: to men in general. But let me circle back here 268 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: and start to feel powerful. You know, I never want 269 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: I'm never at one time in my life and I 270 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: ever wanted to feel powerful. I just want to work, 271 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: do a good job. Bob, come home to the twins, 272 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: goog a little redbeans and Rice. You know, watch little 273 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: Sherlock comes before we fall asleep? What feel powerful? Who 274 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: wants to feel powerful? Why is it always men that 275 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: want to feel powerful? Well, I guess because it has 276 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: to do with that whole macho feeling of the power 277 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: behind the gun and the ability. Okay, wait, wait, wait, 278 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: wait wait, Karen start. Jackie Howard here in the studio 279 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: has just given me a significant update. Jackie Howard and 280 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: all her intensive legal research has discovered that these two 281 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: like to play war games in the woods. Now. You know, 282 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: when I was little, say nine or ten, I would 283 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: build fortside of pine straw, and we would throw pine 284 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: cones and sycamore balls. As wrong as that is. But 285 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: these two, how old are they? How old are they? Ek? 286 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: How old are these two? Eighteen and nineteen years old? 287 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: And they're still playing war games in the woods. If 288 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: we are to league Jackie Howard anyway, what does that say, 289 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: Karen start? They're still playing war games in the woods, 290 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: running through the woods with fake guns. And I think 291 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: they also like to play war games online. So they 292 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: really are excited about the idea of being able to 293 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: shoot a gun and go through the motions of capturing 294 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: somebody or finding their target. And even though they're eighteen 295 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: and nineteen years old, they are still two boys who 296 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: get a charge out of doing that. They so called 297 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: baby face teen serial killers who murder an American backpacker 298 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: tourist age twenty four and her boyfriend twenty three, and 299 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: a sixty four year old father of two have now 300 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: been found dead in the wilderness after out running and 301 00:18:54,119 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: outsmarting the cops for two weeks. To all you moms 302 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: and dad's out there listening. If you're like me, you 303 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: pour all your love, all your dreams, all your hopes, 304 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: all your energy, all your money, all your everything into 305 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: your children. Can you imagine you go out of town 306 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: for just a couple of days and you get a 307 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: call your baby's missing. I cannot even think about it, 308 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: but that is what happened to Michael Stern. He gets 309 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: a call that his only child, his beautiful girl, Sarah Stern, 310 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: is missing and her car has been found abandoned on 311 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: a remote bridge. At first, they tell him they think 312 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: she committed suicide. He's like, no way, she didn't do that. 313 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: That couldn't happen. What happened to Sarah Stern? When you 314 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: see her picture, you're gonna flip. Bubbly, vivacious, aspiring artist 315 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: had lived through losing her mother to cancer and fought 316 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: back This Saturday at a special New Time on Oxygen, 317 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: nine pm Eastern, eight Central. What happened to Sarah's turn 318 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: Injustice with Nancy Grace? Please join me? Thank you friend. 319 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: I'll see a Saturday nine o'clock Eastern, A brand new 320 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: time Injustice with Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 321 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 322 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: Two male bodies found by a river in Manitoba. Police 323 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: say they believe they are the bodies of Briarsh mcgilski 324 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: eighteen Cam mccloyd nineteen. An autopsy will not only confirm 325 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: their identities but the cod cause of death. The two 326 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: on the run throughout northern Canada, leading police on a 327 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: wild goose chase for the last fifteen days. Why a 328 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: clearer and darker picture is emerging of a murder suspect 329 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: at the center of a cross country man hunt. These 330 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: photos of Brier Shmagelski, sent to CBC by a fellow 331 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: online gamer, showed the team dressed in camo with a 332 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: Nazi symbol on displays a much different image than the 333 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: boy people here knew in person. He was a nice kid, 334 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: very quiet. Lisa Lucas lives a few doors down from 335 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: Schmigelski's grandmother, where he often stayed as a child. Her son, Ryland, 336 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: became quick friends with Shmacgelski. The two played together for years, 337 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: but eventually grew apart. Ryland just said he just gave 338 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: off a weird kind of a vibe. He just after 339 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: a while just started making people feel uncomfortable. She says, 340 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: her son became concerned with Shmagelski's love for violent video games. 341 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: He would mention things about like if this was real, 342 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: you know, like when they're playing video games, like could 343 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: you imagine if this was real kind of a thing, 344 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: so and you'd get a little too excited about it. 345 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: I guess you were hearing from our friends at the CBC. 346 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: That was Tonga Fletcher. Who are these guys joining me 347 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: right now? A forensic expert and I have worked with 348 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: her many times and she is the consummate expert, also 349 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: the founder of Beer Bones consulting with me right now? 350 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: Karen Smith. Karen, first of all, let me just start 351 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: with an elementary question. Tell me about the primary crime 352 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: scene where the two bodies, the young North Carolina girl 353 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: China Decee and her boyfriend twenty four, the CoP's son, 354 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: are found. Then I'll move to a potential third victim, 355 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: the college professor Leonard Dyke. Well, the first scene is 356 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: going to be where their van was found on the 357 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: side of the road. There were reports that one of 358 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: the back windows was broken. I don't know if that 359 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: means blown out by a bullet or I don't know 360 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: if that means broken because it had been broken before. 361 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: They're going to be looking at the positions of the bodies. 362 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: How were they positions on the side of the road. 363 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: Had they been executed, had this been completed at a distance? 364 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: Was it a drive by? They're going to look at 365 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: the van, what was wrong with it? How was it 366 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: broken down? Was it a rural road where there are 367 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: a lot of people that pass by. They're going to 368 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: be asking people who may have witnessed anything to come forward. 369 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,479 Speaker 1: You look at the bullets, You look at the ballistics man. 370 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: So we've talked about this ad nauseum before. The ballistics 371 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: are going to tell a story, maybe not the story, 372 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: but a story. What type of gun was it? Was 373 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: it a rifle? Was it a handgun? Is there any 374 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: stippling or earned an unburned gun powder on the body 375 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: showing a close contact or close range gunshot. All of 376 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 1: those horndics are going to come forward and tell a story, 377 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: But it doesn't give us the name and address of 378 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: a suspect. It just tells us the ballistics and what 379 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: may have happened at that scenes. Kill me, how you 380 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: believe Karen Smith Barebud's consulting that the two bodies of 381 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: China Deese and Lucas Fowler can be connected to that 382 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: of the college professor Leonard Dyke. We're looking at ballistics. 383 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: If Leonardyke was shot, and from reports says that he was. 384 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: They're going to look to try and match the bullets 385 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: from the first scene where the two were gunned down 386 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: to the Leonard Dyke scene where he was apparently gunned down. 387 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: If they can match those ballistics, we're going to show 388 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: that it was the same guns that fired those bullets. 389 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: So those links are going to be critical. Of course, 390 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: the state never has to prove motive, Isn't that right? 391 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: Jason Ocean's estate, for instance, me trying a case, I 392 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: don't have to climb into these guys heads and figure 393 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: out why did they do it? Why, what were they thinking? 394 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: What were they tired of playing Minecraft? In their mommy's basement. 395 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. Are they tired of running through the 396 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: woods with an air soft? I don't know, And I 397 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: don't have to know. I just have to know I've 398 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: got the right person and the right jurisdiction and the 399 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: right victims and a general time span. That's what I 400 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: need to know, and I need to be able to 401 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. So motive motive, But 402 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: I will say, Jason, I am curious. Don't you think 403 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 1: juries want to just out of curiosity? No, a motive 404 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: they do, Nancy, I mean, and as I listen to 405 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: you speak, once a prosecutor, always a prosecutor, and and 406 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: certainly motive doesn't matter. It's just part of story. As 407 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: you say, juries like to hear that these are lay 408 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: people who want to know, well, what happened? How did 409 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: these you know, eighteen nineteen year olds teenagers quote unquote 410 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: in a bad way, baby faced killers? How did they 411 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: get to this point? So, you know, part of that 412 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: is a background, their family background. One of them is 413 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: comes from a you know, a ruptured family in terms 414 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: of parents, divorce and contentious going on for years. Not 415 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: that that's any excuse, but that's part of the motive. 416 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: So well, wait, wait, please talk, Jason. Are you seriously 417 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: saying because the parents slid up, because that's why they 418 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: went on a murder spray, because it sounds like you 419 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: just did. I'm not. I'm just saying, but that's a 420 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: part of your question as to what is motive. Didn't 421 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: I hear you say ruptured family? Was that not you? 422 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: That must have been Jackie Howard here in the studio, 423 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: because I know I heard somebody say ruptured family. Got 424 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: to give me a little bit better than that. Well, 425 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, you're you're looking promotive. I mean, we're 426 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: we're all supposing what it might be. But one's uh, 427 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, one's reclusive and we're calcitrons in his life. 428 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: The other one is uh, you know, uh got anger 429 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: issues and more dominant, as Karen Stark said, and unfortunately 430 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: with horrible, uh and deadly consequences too. Dave, Oh my goodness, 431 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a picture right now of China Day's 432 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: just oh my goodness, she's just she's just precious. She's 433 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: standing with the boyfriend, Lucas Fowler. It looks like they're 434 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: standing in front of the Grand Canyon. That's what it 435 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: looks like these two taking off the out into the wild, 436 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: the wye blue yonder to see the world, the parents 437 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: pre grudgingly letting them go, and now they're dead. How 438 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: in the world, Dade mac did these two punks mccloyd 439 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: and Michelle Schmigelski managed to Outsmart cops for over two weeks. 440 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: We don't exactly know. One of the I think was 441 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: Shamelski's dad said that he had told him that he 442 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: was going to be looking for a better job because 443 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: the hourly pay for Walmart just wasn't cutting it, so 444 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: they were going to go to a different city and 445 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: try to find better jobs. What we've seen from their 446 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: online gaming exploits and their basic life online is that 447 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: there was a fascination with the macabre, with guns, with death, 448 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: with all types of really radical things that we see 449 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: in some young men this age that are disaffected by 450 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: real life. Neither one of them seemed to have any direction. 451 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: And again, as one of the dad who was talking 452 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 1: the most said that, you know, he never saw it coming, 453 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: and yet everything was out there, the pictures with guns, 454 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: the fascination with death, it was all out there online 455 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: enough that young people who were close to both of 456 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: these guys had started backing away over the last couple 457 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: of years and not having a lot to do with 458 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: them because they were getting out there in a land 459 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,479 Speaker 1: of real negativity and death. So I don't know if 460 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: we'll ever actually know why they did with they did. 461 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace to night Canadian police converging 462 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: on a small town crew setting up checkpoints as heavily 463 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: armed officers searched nearby woods, searching door to door for 464 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: two teens turned murder suspects. It is possible that someone 465 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: may not have been aware of who they were providing 466 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: assistance to cam McLeod and Briars mcgowski on the run 467 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: for two weeks. Smigelski's father now fears his son will 468 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: end his life in a blaze of glory. He's going 469 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: to be dead today or tomorrow, I knew fact. Police 470 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: believe the childhood friends killed three, including American at China 471 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: Diese on a road trip with Australian boyfriend at Lucas Fowler, 472 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: both shot to death outside their broken down van. Police 473 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: then found body of Professor Leonard Dick near a burned 474 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: up pickup truck the teens had been driving they weren't 475 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: spoted again until more than twelve hundred miles away. The 476 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: next day, another burned vehicle more than eight hundred miles 477 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: east near the town of Gillham in northern Manitoba, a 478 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: town in fear with alleged killers on the loose. This morning, 479 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: at approximately ten am, our SAMP officers located two male 480 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: bodies in the dense brush within one kilometer from where 481 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: the items were found. This is approximately eight kilometers from 482 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 1: where the burnt vehicle was located. At this time. We 483 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: believe these are the bodies of the two suspects. That's right, 484 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: the so called baby faced teen serial killers who murder 485 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: an American backpacker tourists aged twenty four and her boyfriend 486 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: twenty three, and a sixty four year old father of 487 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: two have now been found dead in the wilderness after 488 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: out running and outsmarting the cops for two weeks. You know, 489 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: one of the strangest things about this entire case has 490 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: been the fact that these two teenagers were able to 491 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: elude some of the most experienced people trackers in the world. 492 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: So how is it possible for two teenagers who don't 493 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: seem to have a whole lot on the ball. How 494 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: could they possibly elude. Well, here's the way it really 495 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: worked is probably their youth and the fact that they 496 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: had energy beyond the pale. Think about it. They were 497 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: traveling hundreds and hundreds of miles thousands of miles to 498 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: go from one spot where they killed the young couple 499 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: whose car broke down, to there was a couple hundred 500 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: miles to where they then killed the professor. These are 501 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: young guys eighteen nineteen years old. They're staying up for 502 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: extended periods of time, they're staying alert for extended periods 503 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: of time, and they're traveling, they're moving. They were able 504 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: to actually confuse police. Police thought that they were getting 505 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: help from somebody, that they had to be getting help. 506 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: In reality, they didn't. They went into this brush. The 507 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: underbrush was so thick. Experts were talking about how difficult 508 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: it was to traverse, to just to hike through this 509 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: area if you were actually really prepared. They had RCMP 510 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: guys who were actually trained for this type of terrain 511 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: and they said they couldn't cut through it very quickly, 512 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: that they were having a tough time. So when you're 513 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: talking about some of the most experienced outdoors searchers who 514 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: are having a difficult time in this type of terrain, 515 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: and you compare that to an eighteen and nineteen year 516 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: old guys that don't have a lot of experience in 517 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: this I think they just basically it was youth and 518 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: energy that kept them on the move. Three people dead, 519 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: including a gorgeous young twenty four year old girl out 520 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: of South Carolina, China D's, her boyfriend, twenty three year 521 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: old Lucas Fowler, and a well known botanist, a college 522 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: professor father of two, Leonard Dike, all dead allegedly at 523 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: the hands of the so called baby Faced killers. Take 524 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: a list narrow friends at Inside Edition. Those two teenagers 525 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: wanted for the brutal murder of a North Carolina woman 526 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: and her boyfriend and a college professor have been found dead. 527 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: The bodies of nineteen year old Cam McLeod and eighteen 528 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: year old Brier sh mcgelski were discovered on the side 529 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: of a river in remote Manitoba, Canada. Police have been 530 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: searching for them for three weeks. Suspects in the slayings 531 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: of China Diese and her boyfriend Lucas Fowler in British Columbia, 532 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: job done Canadian investigators made the announcement today. At this time, 533 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: we believe these are the bodies of the two suspects 534 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: wanted in connection with the homicides in British Columbia. Their 535 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: deaths closed the man hunt. It's not known if they 536 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: took their own lives. The father, BRIERSH mcgilski, says this 537 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: a normal child doesn't travel across the country killing people. 538 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: Child in sharious, serious pains monies. We're gonna shoot first 539 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: and ask questions. Leading leader. Basically, he's going to be 540 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: dead today or tomorrow. Hey, I know fact, I want 541 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: to see syl happened. Oh so sorry, could I'm going 542 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: to post kill you all my stars. That's just breaking 543 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 1: my heart. And yes, I know that's the father of 544 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: one of the alleged killers. Bryce Miguel's keep it. He 545 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: is still a dad and he still loves his son 546 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: no matter what. Stunning and shocking end to a murder 547 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: spree and the search for two so called baby faced killers. 548 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: Dave Matt what's the latest? You know, Nancy, we don't 549 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: know a lot of things about the bodies of the 550 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: two teenagers right now, but we're learning a few things, 551 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: you know. The police are being kind of guarded right 552 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: now the RCMP. But right now we know that their 553 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 1: final days in hiding in the wild were not easy 554 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: at all. They were found after this two week search 555 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: of the Nilson River. Their bodies were discovered about a 556 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: kilometer from the banks of the Nielson River near Gillham. 557 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: The teen's final meal in this insect ridden wilderness apparently 558 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: was pork chops and oranges that they actually left behind 559 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: their camping supplies. And that was kind of interesting because, 560 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: you know, they found out that burned out RAV four. 561 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: It was assumed that they had burned that out and 562 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: took off. Well, once they examined the burned out RAV four, 563 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: they found out that they actually left behind the camping supplies, 564 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: suggesting to everybody they didn't plan on surviving out in 565 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: the wild for any real length of time. Now, these 566 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: are the Canadian teenagers who killed Australian Lucas Fowler and 567 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: his American girlfriend China Geese, as well as we assumed 568 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: the Professor Dyke. They spent their last days dying a 569 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: slow and painful death in the wilderness, is what we're 570 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: hearing now. The bodies of Schmigelski and McLeod were found 571 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: by police about a kilometer from the banks of the 572 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: Nilson River. That's just outside gillum At, where the center 573 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: of this whole manhunt has been for the last couple 574 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: of weeks. This three week search that stretched some five 575 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: thousand kilometers across Canada. It's a longer distance than between 576 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: in Australia like Sydney and Perth, which again I've mentioned before. 577 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: The Australian media has been all over this and it's 578 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: just been heart wrenching to watch some of the reporting. 579 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: The suspects appeared to have eaten like half of their 580 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 1: pork chops and fruit before making their way through this thick, 581 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: insect ridden swampy type area toward the dangerous Nelson River. 582 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 1: Their bodies were found about a kilometer from where police 583 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: found the sleeping bag that and some other items for 584 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: camping that they directly linked to the guys. It's not 585 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: known how they died or how long their bodies had 586 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,399 Speaker 1: been there. At this point, we are finding out little 587 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: by little things from some of the local reporters and 588 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: some of the people in the area. Local media reporting 589 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: suggesting that water contamination, anaphylectic shock, or an animal attack 590 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: are all potential causes of death. Stunning and shocking end 591 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 1: to a murder spree and the search for two so 592 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: called baby Faced killers. I hate this for their parents, 593 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: the two baby Faced killer parents. But what I really 594 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:39,720 Speaker 1: hate is for the children of this college. Professors, Professor Dyke, 595 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: the young girl, the American girl China Das, her boyfriend 596 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: Lucas Fowler. What a nightmare. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing 597 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: off Goodbye friend,