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Speaker 1: Hey, that folks. It is Monday, November the seventeenth, and

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Speaker 1: congratulations to mister Calvin Duncan, a man who spent nearly

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Speaker 1: thirty years in prison for a murder he says he

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Speaker 1: did not commit. He is free today. But that's not

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Speaker 1: why we're congratulating him. Congratulations because he just got elected

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Speaker 1: to office in Louisiana. And with that, welcome to this

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Speaker 1: episode of Amy and DJ. A lot of congratulations. You hear,

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Speaker 1: a guy who spent thirty years in prison for a

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Speaker 1: crime he says he didn't commit. Congratulations, you're out. But

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Speaker 1: this is a different type of moment, and a county

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Speaker 1: clerk race Robes is making national headlines. Right.

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Speaker 2: This is not a race that is typically closely watched,

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Speaker 2: even locally or even reported on in the New Orleans area,

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Speaker 2: let alone, yes, nationally, even internationally. But the more and

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Speaker 2: more we read into the story of Calvin Duncan, the

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Speaker 2: more fascinated I became with him for a number of reasons.

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Speaker 2: But some of the headlines read something like this, a

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Speaker 2: man who was serving life in prison for murder just

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Speaker 2: won an election to oversee the very court system that

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Speaker 2: once imprisoned him. Or how about this the same court

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Speaker 2: system that denied him access to his own records. He

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Speaker 2: is now the clerk of the court. This is an

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Speaker 2: unbelievable about face and someone who took something that happened

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Speaker 2: to him and made it work for him. His life

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Speaker 2: changed in ways he couldn't have imagined because he was

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Speaker 2: convicted of this crime. He had an eighth grade education

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Speaker 2: period when he was imprisoned at the age of twenty one,

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Speaker 2: an eighth grade education.

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Speaker 1: And look, this is a this is well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the fast is the story. But one part of it

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Speaker 1: is that you wouldn't normally look at a guy who

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Speaker 1: has the background in the resume that he has and

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Speaker 1: see him as a politician or see him as the

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Speaker 1: person you want to lead. He is uniquely qualified better

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Speaker 1: than anybody, I would argue in the country to do

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Speaker 1: this particular job, because quite frankly, a lot of us

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Speaker 1: don't even realize what your clerk does, your county clerk.

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Speaker 1: You don't go into the clerk's office that often, certainly

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Speaker 1: not now these days. I've made a trip to a

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Speaker 1: clerk's office every once in a while, I think for

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Speaker 1: a story when I was reporting locally. But other than that,

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Speaker 1: what do you go to your clerk's office.

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Speaker 2: For right, everything's digitized, except in New Orleans, you know,

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Speaker 2: they do everything by paper.

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Speaker 1: What they say they're trying to upgrade earlier, this was it.

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Speaker 2: This year they had to send a team out to

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Speaker 2: a dump to go and try and find court records

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Speaker 2: that were accidentally thrown away. This is how archaic the

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Speaker 2: system is. But that's just how important this job is,

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Speaker 2: specifically in New Orleans. Right now.

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Speaker 1: Things get misplaced, it happens. But to that point as well,

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Speaker 1: he's maybe he'd have gotten out of prison sooner. Maybe

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Speaker 1: he would have been able to prove his innocence sooner

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Speaker 1: if he, as he argues, had better access to the

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Speaker 1: records at the clerk's office that he is now going

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Speaker 1: to be in charge of.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty remarkable and the irony is there, but it's

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Speaker 2: also just such a cool, cool story. So the person

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Speaker 2: who had held this office before was he was the incumbent,

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Speaker 2: Darren Lombard was his name. He comes from a prominent

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Speaker 2: political family in the New Orleans area. He had the

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Speaker 2: endorsement of the local paper. He had the endorsement of

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Speaker 2: the mayor elect. She's widely popular. He had the endorsement

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Speaker 2: from the state senator, so he was going to be

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Speaker 2: the guy. He was just going to be re elected

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Speaker 2: Darren Lombard. There was a three way race between Duncan,

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Speaker 2: who was another Democrat, and a Republican, and they ended

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Speaker 2: up having to do a runoff, and that runoff happened

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Speaker 2: this weekend. And for a while Lombard was in a

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Speaker 2: comfortable lead until he starts playing dirty with his political ads.

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Speaker 2: He went there, He actually went and tried to say

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Speaker 2: in television advertisements, in any sort of public appearance he

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Speaker 2: had that Duncan, he questioned Duncan's innocent he said, In fact,

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Speaker 2: the Louisiana Attorney General even put out a season desist.

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Speaker 2: You can't say that you were exonerated. You can't say

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Speaker 2: that you're an innocent man. And they started saying, or

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Speaker 2: at least putting questions in the voter's minds, that Duncan

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Speaker 2: was actually still tied to this crime and could be

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Speaker 2: perhaps was a cold blooded murderer. But the folks of

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Speaker 2: Louisiana didn't like that so much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he ends up winning overwhelmingly.

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Speaker 2: Did he not? Sixty eight percent of the vote he got,

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Speaker 2: And it's pretty cool. I didn't realize this, they say

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Speaker 2: one of the main reasons why this tactic backfired. New

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Speaker 2: Orleans has one of the highest the nation's highest rates

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Speaker 2: of no wrongful convictions. So this struck a nerve with

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Speaker 2: the folks of New Orleans, the people of Louisiana, who thought, Hey,

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Speaker 2: this man served twenty eight years in prison for a

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Speaker 2: crime he always maintained he didn't commit, and for a

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Speaker 2: crime that he was exonerated from. So it basically pissed

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Speaker 2: the voters off, and they voted overwhelmingly for Duncan. I

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Speaker 2: think that's a pretty cool It's not something that people

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Speaker 2: expected and a pretty cool outcome from an election that

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Speaker 2: we wouldn't have heard of otherwise.

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Speaker 1: No, and this is a guy you mentioned eighth grade education,

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Speaker 1: but this is a guy who has a law degree

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Speaker 1: from Tulane. No, not Toulane, Lowising Clark down there. He

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Speaker 1: got his bachelor's at Tulane. He got his law degree

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Speaker 1: from Lewis and Clark. He has been doing this study,

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Speaker 1: if you will, for the past thirty years of his life,

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Speaker 1: as he was in prison for all that time. So

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Speaker 1: this is some sharp guy. They can't just dismiss as

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Speaker 1: not capable or not I don't know, with some experience

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Speaker 1: for the jobs. So they tried to go with the

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Speaker 1: thing that would work. Hey, here's a convicted killer. You're

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Speaker 1: not going to vote for him, are I guess that

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Speaker 1: didn't work. People were smart enough to see through that.

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Speaker 1: And we're smart enough to learn a little about this guy.

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Speaker 1: And once you start reading about him or hear about him,

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Speaker 1: just take a moment, just listen to him. You will immediately,

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Speaker 1: I guess ropes. He can win you over pretty easily

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Speaker 1: if you are I guess. We know folks in New Orleans,

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Speaker 1: we know how they are. They're playing spoken, laid back folks,

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Speaker 1: and he's one of them.

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Speaker 2: He is one of them. And look, we did a

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Speaker 2: deeper dive into the crime that he was accused of

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Speaker 2: committing and was convicted of committing. And it's pretty fascinating

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Speaker 2: when we start looking at these criminal trials. But he

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Speaker 2: was given a life sentence for the shooting death of

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Speaker 2: twenty three year old David Yeager. This was back in

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Speaker 2: August of nineteen eighty one. It happened during an armed

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Speaker 2: robbery and it was Yager's girlfriend. And you know, we

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Speaker 2: always hear about how eyewitness testimony is the least reliable testimony,

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Speaker 2: and yet it was her testimony she identified him as

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Speaker 2: the shooter. Police apparently showed her a mug shot of

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Speaker 2: him from when he was fourteen years old. He was

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Speaker 2: eighteen year Duncan was eighteen years old at the time

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Speaker 2: of the murder. Police show the victim's girlfriend a fourteen

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Speaker 2: year old picture of him and she says, yep, that's

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Speaker 2: the guy, and his attorneys now or later had said

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Speaker 2: she only was able to say that after she saw

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Speaker 2: him on television being paraded with handcuffs arrested for the murder. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: in her mind he was the person. But that was

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Speaker 2: literally all they had to connect him. The trial lasted

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Speaker 2: one day. His attorneys spent like a couple of minutes

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Speaker 2: with him before he went into trial and just made

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Speaker 2: sure he had a suit and that was it. There

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Speaker 2: was no prep, there was no nothing. And so he

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Speaker 2: said he knew from that moment on he had to

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Speaker 2: educate himself, and that is what he did for twenty

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Speaker 2: eight years behind bars. It's remarkable. So, yes, he ultimately

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Speaker 2: got the Innocence Project involved. They were able to rep

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Speaker 2: him and they were able to actually question the accuracy

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Speaker 2: of that eyewitness testimony, and they were able to arrange

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Speaker 2: a deal in twenty eleven that allowed him to plead

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Speaker 2: guilty to a lower charge of manslaughter and attempted arm propery.

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Speaker 2: Given the time he'd already served, he got out. Here's

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Speaker 2: the deal though. In twenty twenty one, ten years later,

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Speaker 2: a state law came about where it allows somebody who

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Speaker 2: always maintained their innocence, who for whatever reason, had to

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Speaker 2: plead guilty to something that they still maintained they didn't do.

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Speaker 2: If the facts of the case were shown that that

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Speaker 2: person was innocent, they were able to actually be fully exonerated.

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Speaker 2: And that is what happened to Duncan. He was fully

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Speaker 2: exonerated in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: Yes, his opponents, he will proponents will certainly say that

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Speaker 1: the argument there being on the other side, they're questioning,

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Speaker 1: this is just semantics. This is all about semantics, and

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Speaker 1: they want to label them one thing and want to

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Speaker 1: label the case being thrown out the case the conviction.

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Speaker 1: It absolutely it was thrown out because it was deemed

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Speaker 1: that he did not get a constitutional trial, period, point blank,

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Speaker 1: so it was thrown out. The other side is arguing, well, yes,

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Speaker 1: that was thrown out, but it didn't you never were

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Speaker 1: in court and were able to found not guilty of something.

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Speaker 1: So it's just the back and voice semantics and then

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Speaker 1: pologizing and they want to do this.

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Speaker 2: Politics gets dirty, as it typically does. But I loved

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Speaker 2: what Duncan said, what Calvin Duncan said when he took

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Speaker 2: his victory lap. This happened Saturday night, when the results

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Speaker 2: came in. That's sixty eight percent of the vote. He said,

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Speaker 2: Tonight is a dream that's been forty years in the making.

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Speaker 2: I hope that all those people who died in prison

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Speaker 2: because we couldn't get their records are looking down now.

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Speaker 2: I hope they're proud of me. We never stop fighting

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Speaker 2: for each other's rights, and I will never stop fighting

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Speaker 2: for yours. That's powerful and it's understandable how he got elected.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to follow this guy. Really, he's probably going

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Speaker 1: to be again. I really do believe he's the best

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Speaker 1: qualified clerk.

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Speaker 2: In the country, oh, without a doubt. And he was

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Speaker 2: known as basically the jail house lawyer. He wasn't an

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Speaker 2: official lawyer at that point while he was still in prison,

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Speaker 2: but he spent hours fighting for the rights of inmates

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Speaker 2: inside the prison from what they were able to eat,

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Speaker 2: to getting them dental care. He really used this knowledge

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Speaker 2: that he was gleaning. He said he spent more time

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Speaker 2: in the library than he did in his cell to

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Speaker 2: learn and to learn and to learn. And it's such

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Speaker 2: I get chills thinking about somebody who had everything working

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Speaker 2: against him and was wrongfully imprisoned, was not educated, and

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Speaker 2: found a way to completely change his life. And I

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Speaker 2: just I am in awe of somebody who can do that.

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Speaker 2: I love what He recently gave a speech at UC

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Speaker 2: Berkeley to some law hopeful soon to be lawyers, and

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Speaker 2: he said, I got out of prison on a Friday,

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Speaker 2: and I was on campus at Tulane University the next

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Speaker 2: Tuesday trying to get into law school, and they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you got to get an undergraduate degree first. He didn't

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Speaker 2: even know. He just thought, I'm going to walk into

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Speaker 2: dew Lane, I'm going to get my law degree. But

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Speaker 2: that enthusiasm, that purpose, that tenacity, I just find that

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Speaker 2: so inspiring. And to see what he was able to

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Speaker 2: pull off in New Orleans over the weekend is just

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Speaker 2: such a cool inspirational story. It got me all worked

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Speaker 2: up this morning reading about him and everything he did,

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Speaker 2: even in twenty twenty because of his legal work, he

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Speaker 2: got the US Supreme Court to end non unanimous jury convictions.

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Speaker 2: There were only two states in this country that still

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Speaker 2: had that on the books, Louisiana and Oregon, and was

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Speaker 2: all rooted in Jim Crow laws. But look at what

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Speaker 2: he's done with everything that he was served.

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Speaker 1: Oh't know this guy is. It's one of those remarkable stories.

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Speaker 1: If he chooses to, he'd probably do. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'd be curious to see how he does with a

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Speaker 1: statewide campaign. But I wonder if he has his eye

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Speaker 1: on anything. I don't think he would have, But still

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Speaker 1: their folks are going to keep an eye on him

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Speaker 1: and think he might be able to do some good

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Speaker 1: for the party.

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Speaker 2: I would love to talk to him. I've just when

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Speaker 2: just reading some of the things he's said and how

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Speaker 2: he's inspired folks. Like everyone thinks, oh, they got a

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Speaker 2: bum rap or they aren't able to do something because

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Speaker 2: of X, Y and Z. When you hear his story

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Speaker 2: and you see what he's done with his life, it

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Speaker 2: is pretty pretty cool. When we come back, we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about what his opponent, Remember the one we

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Speaker 2: were just talking about who tried to insinuate, and not

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Speaker 2: just insinua, but say that his opponent, Duncan, was a

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Speaker 2: convicted murderer and should be viewed at that way, and

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Speaker 2: certainly tried to win the race by saying that and

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Speaker 2: smearing him.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: He had something to say when he conceded his loss

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Speaker 2: over the weekend, and I think this is just so

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Speaker 2: much more about Duncan's specific case and more about what

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Speaker 2: we can all focus on in politics. I think we

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Speaker 2: can all learn something from him, and we'll get into

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Speaker 2: all of that when we come back continuing our conversation

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Speaker 2: about Calvin Duncan. He is now the Clerk of Court

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Speaker 2: in New Orleans. He won in a runoff race this

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Speaker 2: weekend with sixty eight percent of the vote, beating an incumbent,

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Speaker 2: a well known political figure and political family in New Orleans,

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Speaker 2: and really beat every odd you could even imagine to

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Speaker 2: be where he is today. He's a trained lawyer after

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Speaker 2: only having had an eighth grade education going into prison

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Speaker 2: convicted of murder and was going to spend the rest

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Speaker 2: of his life in prison, was able to literally free

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Speaker 2: himself from all of the work he did in combination

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Speaker 2: with the innocence projects there at New Orleans and now

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Speaker 2: he is an elected official in the state of Louisiana.

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Speaker 2: It is a remarkable story. But his opponent, Lombard, did

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Speaker 2: concede the race, and I was a little surprised when

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Speaker 2: I read, how I guess it just in these days

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Speaker 2: when first of all, just having someone conceider race is

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Speaker 2: a big deal now, I think. But the words he

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Speaker 2: used I was actually impressed with. I thought it was

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Speaker 2: going to maybe be mean spirited or not the kind

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Speaker 2: olive branch that he ended up giving him, which was

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Speaker 2: a lovely surprise to read.

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Speaker 1: Oh, election's over overwhelmingly ninety five percent over our lifetime,

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Speaker 1: the nastiest races you've ever seen. When it's time to concede,

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Speaker 1: they shut up, even if they have to just bear it,

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Speaker 1: even if they're not grinning and bearing it. You just

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Speaker 1: it's over.

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Speaker 2: Now. If only we could see that on the presidential level,

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Speaker 2: sometimes that'd be nice too. But yes, so I guess

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't We shouldn't be surprised to have someone actually

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Speaker 2: do the right thing. But I guess given these times,

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Speaker 2: sometimes maybe the bar has set much lower. But Darren

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Speaker 2: Lombard said this after acknowledging that he did in fact

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Speaker 2: lose the election, he said, I want to congratulate Calvin

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Speaker 2: Duncan on his victory. I stand ready to support a

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Speaker 2: smooth and professional transition so that the important work of

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Speaker 2: this office continues without interruption.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's your duty, that's your responsibility. That's an adult,

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Speaker 1: that's a grown up, no matter, he was a politician

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Speaker 1: the day before. Now you've got to be a grown

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Speaker 1: up and do your duty. Yeah, as you're supposed to do. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm pleased to hear as well.

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Speaker 2: And I do think that this is I was surprised

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Speaker 2: and encouraged that voters can and do look past some

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Speaker 2: very questionable choices perhaps we've made or he made in

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Speaker 2: his lifetime, but certainly was able to look past any

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Speaker 2: wrong that may have been done. When you see a transformation,

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Speaker 2: when you see a genuine transformation, do you think that

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Speaker 2: we all can recognize that? And perhaps people in power

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Speaker 2: don't give ordinary folks the credit that we can see

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Speaker 2: through that stuff. We can see when someone's telling us

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Speaker 2: the truth. We can tell when we're being BSD, we

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Speaker 2: can tell when someone is saying something that isn't true,

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Speaker 2: and vice versa. And so I think this option or

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Speaker 2: this ability for us to redemption, second chances. I don't

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Speaker 2: know that we give them enough to people. You're not

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Speaker 2: very big on second chances oftentimes, But.

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Speaker 1: Again, what are we talking about people you get judged

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Speaker 1: in society. We say you're willing to give a second chance.

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Speaker 1: But if this man still had a conviction and had

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Speaker 1: served his time and ran for office, would you have

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Speaker 1: supported him? Right? Did it need to be a guy

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Speaker 1: who was cleared of something first that we have to

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Speaker 1: make sure he's morally okay, at least in our eyes.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think this is a wonderful story. But

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Speaker 1: I think it is so unique, maybe even to not

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Speaker 1: just this guy and his experience in that office, but

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Speaker 1: also unique in the type of office he was running

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Speaker 1: for and the electric that he was dealing with, which

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Speaker 1: is particular in New Orleans. So I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of those things had to come together. But exoneration is

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Speaker 1: one thing. If we think about second chances, it's not

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Speaker 1: just because we got cleared. I can stand next to

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Speaker 1: you with my arm around you, because I think everybody

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Speaker 1: else thinks you're okay. What if he was still convicted,

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Speaker 1: did his time, would you put your arm around him?

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Speaker 1: So we need second chances come with people who actually

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Speaker 1: do wrong, serve their time and come back out and

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Speaker 1: try to get into society, not just people who have

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Speaker 1: done wrong and then got cleared and now it's okay

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Speaker 1: to give him a second chance, not h.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you make a very good point, and I also

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Speaker 2: I'm curious how someone like Duncan didn't come out bitter,

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Speaker 2: didn't come out angry, didn't come out of prison pissed

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Speaker 2: off and angry at the world. What does that say

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Speaker 2: about someone's spirit and who they are deep inside or

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Speaker 2: within to be able to use that for good, not

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Speaker 2: just for himself but for other prisoners. I find that

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Speaker 2: to be remarkable. Do you think you're born with that?

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Speaker 2: Do you think he developed that? I'm fascinated by folks

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Speaker 2: who can take something because I think one of the

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Speaker 2: worst things that could happen to you is to be

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Speaker 2: accused of and to be punished for something you did

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Speaker 2: not do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's your option? You don't have any options? And

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Speaker 1: he learned through experience, Yeah, you don't have any options.

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Speaker 1: They're going to ball up and cry, and some do

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Speaker 1: and can't go on. But no, he was the opposite

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Speaker 1: and have turned it and has turned it into something

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Speaker 1: A great story. We'll see what he does right now.

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Speaker 1: It's a great story that is serving in a not

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Speaker 1: yet in a practical way. He can make a practical

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Speaker 1: difference later, but right now he is still making a

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Speaker 1: solid spiritual he is making an example. He's still making

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Speaker 1: a difference just about what he's done already.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love the fact that now he says

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Speaker 2: it can take years for folks in prison. I would

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Speaker 2: not have realized this to get access to their own

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Speaker 2: core documents that they can start working on their appeals, etc.

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Speaker 2: And he's going to change that. He says he is

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Speaker 2: going to make it fair for all prisoners to have

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Speaker 2: easy access to their documents. That's such a cool way

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Speaker 2: to turn around a story that could have had a

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Speaker 2: much worse ending. And so I know that I feel

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Speaker 2: better today about how I'm going to approach life just

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Speaker 2: by reading Calvin Duncan's story. And we can't wait to

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Speaker 2: follow him and see what else he does. But we

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Speaker 2: appreciate you all for listening to us. We hope you

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Speaker 2: all learn something as well from his story, and we

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Speaker 2: thank you for listening to this episode. I made me

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Speaker 2: Roeboch alongside TJ. Holmes. We will talk to you soon