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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff

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Speaker 2: Special Whoops All Context edition, because we are on part

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Speaker 2: four of our four parter and we're finally about to

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Speaker 2: get to the Haitian Revolution.

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Speaker 3: Whoops All Context harr Your.

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Speaker 2: Host, Margaret Kiljoy, and my guest today is problem.

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Speaker 4: We are the only people on cool Zone that really

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Speaker 4: appreciates that reference.

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Speaker 2: I actually can't even remember what it is, but I

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Speaker 2: was thinking. I was like, I think this dates.

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Speaker 3: It's from the cereal. It's it's Lucky Charms.

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Speaker 2: Oh shit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when they did the whoops all Marshmallows.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking about it before I record. I

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Speaker 2: was like, why is this a thing in my head?

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Speaker 2: I think no one younger than me has this in

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Speaker 2: their head exactly.

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Speaker 4: That's why I was like, we're the only ones that

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Speaker 4: appreciate it. That was when they did the all marshmallows.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how is that cereal? Number one?

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I would try it once. That's what I

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Speaker 2: would do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I did to obtaining away in the world. My

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Speaker 4: black Mama would have bought any way in the world.

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Speaker 3: She put that for us.

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Speaker 2: You know, I didn't get Lucky Charms as a kid, No,

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Speaker 2: not at all. Yeah, my mom would take honey nut

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Speaker 2: cheerios and regular cheerios and put them in a tupperware

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Speaker 2: fifty to fifty so I could have like almost honey nut.

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Speaker 4: Your mom and my mom were clearly best friends. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: clearly best friends. Yeah, they read the same book apparely. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's probably about as much sugar as I

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Speaker 2: should have in my cereal off exactly.

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Speaker 3: It's that's the truth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, we don't have a producer today, but I

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Speaker 2: mean we do actually have a producer, just not on Mike.

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Speaker 2: Our producer is Sophie Yeah. Our audio engineers Rory Hi

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Speaker 2: Rory Yeah. And our theme music was written for us

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Speaker 2: by on Women. And we are on part four of

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Speaker 2: the Haitian Revolution, the part with the revolution in it.

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Speaker 2: The more I read about the Haitian Revolution, the more

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Speaker 2: I realize I will never know everything about the Haitian Revolution.

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Speaker 2: Anyone could easily dedicate their entire career to understanding it.

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Speaker 3: Correct.

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Speaker 2: On my shelf, I've got at least two books that

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Speaker 2: I've barely touched on the subject. Like I started skimming

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Speaker 2: them and being like this isn't I don't know time?

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Speaker 2: When is the Haitian Revolution's influence on the intellectual tradition

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Speaker 2: of the West. It's like sheesh, I know, right, but

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Speaker 2: it's actually one of the books that like did a

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Speaker 2: good job of Like I've read some of it. It

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Speaker 2: it broke down the like, hey, this wasn't enlightenedment came

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Speaker 2: to enslaved people Haiti and the Haitian Revolution exported ideas

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Speaker 2: of what liberty means, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Good.

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Speaker 2: And then another one that I didn't get to touch

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Speaker 2: at all is literally just how it compares to Cuba.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, yeah, oh, there's so much. That's

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Speaker 2: the thing about trying to learn history. Yeah, it's infinite.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, everything is everything that already happened. Yeah, as has

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Speaker 3: a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And why you're learning it more of it happens while

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Speaker 2: we're here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: Then you learn more about like some of the books

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Speaker 2: that like change the way that everyone thinks about the

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Speaker 2: Haitian Revolution came out in twenty twenty three, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like yeah, and all this histories argued about. I don't

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Speaker 2: feel one hundred percent certain about the parts that I'm

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Speaker 2: going to talk about, but it is the best that

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Speaker 2: I was able to come up with on August fourteenth,

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Speaker 2: seventeen ninety one, there was a meeting in the woods.

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Speaker 2: For years, decades and centuries, and slave people on the

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Speaker 2: island as well as maroons, had been building these communication

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Speaker 2: networks that were robust and powerful, and they were waiting

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Speaker 2: for a purpose. I mean they had a purpose. They

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Speaker 2: were used for marooning and all kinds of things. But

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Speaker 2: it's almost like they spent hundreds of years building this thing,

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Speaker 2: and then it got to work. The French Revolution, the

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Speaker 2: labor strikes, the increasing repression by the white supremacists, the

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Speaker 2: sudden interest in revolution from the free people of color

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Speaker 2: all came together to give the communication networks this purpose.

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Speaker 2: And so the first meeting probably was in the woods

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Speaker 2: the Lenhment de Meisee sugar plantation two hundred. Whenever I

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Speaker 2: pronounce French, I just start dropping letters and hope for

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Speaker 2: the best. Good to me, Yeah, thank you, yeah, thank

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Speaker 2: you yeah. And I spent a month in France. Once

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Speaker 2: I clearly know, oh you got it. Then how to

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Speaker 2: order bag attes, that's all I learned. How to do jesuit, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's all I got. So woplay. Yeah, I can say

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Speaker 2: a bag at please, and I don't speak French there

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Speaker 2: it is everyone there loved me. People in France not

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Speaker 2: like it. But you don't speak French.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's a couple of languages that like I'm

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Speaker 4: not saying words, but I feel like I can.

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Speaker 3: I could do the accent.

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Speaker 4: Well, Like that's like a bit with like Conan O'Brien

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Speaker 4: where it's like he doesn't speak German, but he sounds

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Speaker 4: like he does.

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Speaker 3: So like for me, that's French where I'm just like.

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Speaker 4: Jesu of Ecal, Like I'm like, yeah, say anything, it

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Speaker 4: just sounds French.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I I've learned about ten words in every language where

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Speaker 2: I've been in the country of you know, I learned

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Speaker 2: how to say like I don't speak this language, hello, goodbye,

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Speaker 2: thank you, fuck off?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, beer beer yep.

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Speaker 2: But all these people came together in the woods at

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Speaker 2: the sugar plantation. Two hundred drivers and other skilled enslaved

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Speaker 2: workers gathered together, and they all together represented thousands of people.

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Speaker 2: This is a spokes council, which is one of the

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Speaker 2: most important pieces of communication technology and existence. Disparate people

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Speaker 2: can come together to talk about shit and get things

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Speaker 2: done by each group sending a spokesperson to the spokes council, okay,

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Speaker 2: and so they got together and they were like, well,

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Speaker 2: we should have a revolution. And then they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we should have a revolution.

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Speaker 3: We should go ahead and do it.

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Speaker 2: At this meeting, someone announced that the king had given

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Speaker 2: enslaved people three days off a week, but the owners

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Speaker 2: were hiding that and.

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Speaker 3: This isn't true, but it okay.

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Speaker 2: One, it's not the first time on this show that

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Speaker 2: even recently that we've talked about enslave people using rumors

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Speaker 2: of like, well, the king wouldn't allow this in order

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Speaker 2: to spur people into action, what are.

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Speaker 3: You gonna call him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally. And also it's like the specifics aren't true,

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Speaker 2: but the idea that the king is actually kind of

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Speaker 2: trying to be like a little bit more moderate towards

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Speaker 2: the enslaved people, and then the owners aren't allowing it,

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Speaker 2: that part is true. Yes, it is, yeah, And so

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Speaker 2: they announced the revolution and word spreads across the entire

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Speaker 2: north of the country. The little we know about this

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Speaker 2: first meeting comes from the confessions of one of the

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Speaker 2: captured revolutionaries, because there was this eighteen year old driver

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Speaker 2: and he was like, all right, the revolution's on and

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Speaker 2: he's eighteen. So he just goes and says fire to

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Speaker 2: a plantation.

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Speaker 3: Uh, were good, We're good. Yeah, Oh, we're good. It's

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Speaker 3: time okay cool? Yeah yeah, and uh sorry, I didn't

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Speaker 3: hear you. What'd you say? Oh it's already burned now yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so he gets caught and he confesses, and

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Speaker 2: that's how we know in the historical record about this meeting.

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Speaker 2: A couple days after that, a free black man who

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Speaker 2: was a veteran of the Oji rebellion when the rich

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Speaker 2: people who happen to be people of color all got attacked. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this guy leads a revolt at a sugar estate that recently

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Speaker 2: had a strike, because these networks that came out of

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Speaker 2: strikes were a huge part of it. And the plan

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Speaker 2: that they came up with was three guys with knives

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Speaker 2: are going to go kill the manager. But they failed,

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Speaker 2: and so these first two sparks that the revolution tried

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Speaker 2: to cast out didn't catch. But that's what happens when

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Speaker 2: you try and start fires with sparks. Yeah, just got

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Speaker 2: to keep going. So they do on August twenty first,

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Speaker 2: or the twenty fourth, or the fourteenth, or not at all,

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Speaker 2: depending on your source. Yes, there's so many versions where

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Speaker 2: like there was only one meeting, there was zero meetings.

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Speaker 2: I've become a believer in the two meeting theory of

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Speaker 2: the Haitian Revolution over the past two weeks of reading

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Speaker 2: about this constantly.

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Speaker 4: Well, the T shirts say twenty fourth, that's what the

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Speaker 4: T shirts say. But oh, interesting, it's just a T shirt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I know that.

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Speaker 2: Oh huh, all right, but what do they know, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: at some point you have the second meeting, and this

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Speaker 2: is the meeting that goes down in history. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: the more famous meeting in the woods, the one that

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Speaker 2: really got shit going. I've seen framed or the first

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Speaker 2: meeting was the meeting of the leaders and the next

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Speaker 2: one was the rallying of the troops. But I think

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Speaker 2: that this is coming a little bit from a bias,

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Speaker 2: from someone believing that everything is like hierarchically organized. I

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Speaker 2: think it was a planning spokes council and then a

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Speaker 2: rallying of the troops. But the leaders are at both

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Speaker 2: in the eighteen year old wasn't a leader, he was

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Speaker 2: anyway whatever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: The second meeting was more famous because it's a ceremony

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Speaker 2: and it was coole as shit. It was at a

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Speaker 2: place that is now famous blas Kma Alligator Woods. The

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Speaker 2: revolutionaries forgot to do a roll call, and they didn't

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Speaker 2: keep detailed minutes of these meetings and ceremonies, and so

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Speaker 2: they've become folkloric.

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Speaker 3: So did the meeting even happen?

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Speaker 4: I know, anybody's second was aired? Did we have an

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Speaker 4: open floor discussion?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And most people agree that two people led this ceremony.

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Speaker 2: There was a male priest, a Hungen, which is named

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Speaker 2: for a male priest in Vodu. Yeah, name Bookman Duddy.

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Speaker 2: And there was a female priest, a mambo named Cecil Fatima.

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Speaker 2: And we'll start with Bookman. I've read that he was

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Speaker 2: born in Jamaica, and I've read that he was born

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Speaker 2: free in what was called then Senegambia in Africa, and

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Speaker 2: then he was transported to Jamaica. I don't know. He

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Speaker 2: was likely a Muslim cleric as well as a Vodu practitioner,

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Speaker 2: or he was one and not the other, or he

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Speaker 2: was both, or he was not. People really argue about

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Speaker 2: this shit.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: The thing that seems convincing to me is that he

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Speaker 2: was both a Muslim cleric and a Vodu practitioner. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: his name either comes from the fact that he was literate,

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Speaker 2: the name Bookman, or it comes that as a Muslim cleric.

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Speaker 2: He was a man of the Book's interesting and he

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Speaker 2: either converted to vod away from Islam, or he stayed

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Speaker 2: Muslim and became Vodu. And I honestly, as far as

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Speaker 2: I can tell, what people say has more to do

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Speaker 2: with the religious preferences of the people who wrote that history,

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Speaker 2: because he's an important hero.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Either way, the British guy who owned him sold him

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Speaker 2: off to a French colonist in San Deimong, possibly for

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Speaker 2: teaching other enslaved people how to read. People say that

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Speaker 2: he was a quote imposing physical stature, and in all

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Speaker 2: the art people made of make of him, he is

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Speaker 2: ripped as hell. It's a really good art of this guy.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, hell yeah, hell yeah.

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Speaker 2: He was a coachman for a while, which allowed him

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Speaker 2: to travel around and help build that communication network that

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Speaker 2: was necessary for the revolution. It's also possible that he

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Speaker 2: marooned himself and was living free. That's one of the

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Speaker 2: leaders of this ceremony.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The other is a woman named Cecil Fatiman who's a

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Speaker 2: mambo and she is even more mythologized, and we know

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Speaker 2: even less about her for certain, but there is a

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Speaker 2: strong oral tradition around her, and you know that's a

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Speaker 2: very very valid and important way of transmitting information through

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Speaker 2: a time.

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Speaker 3: Totally.

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Speaker 2: I promised yet another character ostensibly born to royalty the

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Speaker 2: way at the beginning, someone else was ostensibly born to royalty.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, so is she.

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Speaker 2: She was born to an African woman and supposedly a

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Speaker 2: white Corsican prince or the Prince of Corsica himself, and

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Speaker 2: she and her mother and two brothers were sold into

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Speaker 2: slavery when she was young, and sand among her two

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Speaker 2: brothers were never heard from again. Sometimes she is presented

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Speaker 2: as one of the organizers of the ceremony. Sometimes she

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Speaker 2: was just a woman in the crowd who stepped up

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Speaker 2: to perform the ceremony and be mounted by the lawa.

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Speaker 2: Either way, it was a dark and stormy night and

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Speaker 2: the rain is ripping through the trees, and it what

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Speaker 2: a fucking beautiful moment I have been in.

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Speaker 4: Like dude at the down at the equator in Haiti.

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Speaker 4: It's raining beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have read both that the this is

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Speaker 2: how mad I am it all the way the history

256
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Speaker 2: is written about it. I have read both that the

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Speaker 2: ceremony is very well documented, with accounts appear in print

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Speaker 2: only a few years later, and I've also read that

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Speaker 2: all of our documentation on it is terrible and it

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Speaker 2: might not have happened at all. Great, it's almost certain

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Speaker 2: that this happened. Yeah, one day, I am going to

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Speaker 2: take a year and just learn about the Haiti Revolution,

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Speaker 2: and I will be very excited for that entire year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it'd be so good to just like, imagine having

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Speaker 2: a year per subject instead.

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Speaker 3: Of a week or two. Just deep dive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll get a million degrees instead of the zero

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Speaker 2: degrees I currently have. So, because the ceremony is one

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Speaker 2: of the most important parts of Haitian history and cultural pride,

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Speaker 2: it is also a contentious point. The modern evangelical factions

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Speaker 2: claim that this was a Satanic ritual, which is why

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Speaker 2: the whole country is cursed today because they made a

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Speaker 2: deal with the devil. You can tell by my tone

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Speaker 2: of voice that I don't care about this position at all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I suspect that more Marxist historians are downplaying the religious

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Speaker 2: nature of the revolution, and so they kind of talk

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Speaker 2: less about the ceremony, whereas other people play up the

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Speaker 2: ceremony because they want to sell seats to the show.

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Speaker 2: And if you talk about Vodo, you know it's exotic.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: I got to tell you, man, this has been one

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Speaker 4: of the struggles I've had over the years, that juxtaposition

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Speaker 4: of either playing up or playing down the religious element

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Speaker 4: of stuff. It's been a struggle for me, and it's

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Speaker 4: kind of been hard to articulate. But it's when black

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Speaker 4: history isn't covered by black people, like yeah, is I

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Speaker 4: mean down to like the civil rights of being like

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Speaker 4: well these were pastors, yeah, you know, like and they

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Speaker 4: you know, so to say, on one hand, like you said,

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Speaker 4: the evangelical being like, well, that was a Christian, a

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Speaker 4: Christian movement, and then being like well, it was a

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Speaker 4: lot of Christians in it that had theological positions that

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Speaker 4: made them feel like they needed to move forward. But

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Speaker 4: then you got the same evangelicals that were like, well

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Speaker 4: Martin Luther King didn't understand gospel.

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Speaker 3: He preached the gospel wrong.

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Speaker 4: He believed in a social gospel, So how could this

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Speaker 4: be a Christian revolution? And like and then like you said,

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Speaker 4: then you have the Marxist being like no, this was

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Speaker 4: about justice, it was about equality, it was about you know,

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Speaker 4: the political movements. And it's like the answer is yes, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, and that is like and in some senses,

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Speaker 4: it's like I don't know if anybody who listens to

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Speaker 4: pod will know who Vince Staples is. But Vince Staples

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Speaker 4: is is a long beach rapper who's probably one of

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Speaker 4: the funniest humans on earth. But somebody asked him like,

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Speaker 4: when'd you fall in love with hip hop? He was like, man,

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Speaker 4: it's like, I was born in nineteen what do you say?

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Speaker 4: Like he was like, either ninety one or eighty nine.

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Speaker 4: He was like, I was born in nineteen eighty nine

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Speaker 4: something like that. The numbers not the point. But he

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Speaker 4: was just like, that's like asking black people when they

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Speaker 4: met Jesus, like we're black, Like you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 4: Like this, that's always a part of our story, you know,

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Speaker 4: It's always there. So that's what his point about hip hop.

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Speaker 4: He was like, if you're born in nineteen ninety, there's

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Speaker 4: no part of your life that wasn't that hip hop

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Speaker 4: wasn't a part of So when did I fall in

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Speaker 4: love with hip What are you talking about? Like, like

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Speaker 4: it was always there. So I feel like this particular

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Speaker 4: thing to be like it just threw this whole thing.

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Speaker 3: Was a Muslim? Was a voodoo? Did this happen?

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Speaker 4: Was this important with And it's like yes, right, like

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Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, like that is our experience?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no that that makes so much sense to me.

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Speaker 2: And it's like why I end up like frustrated reading

329
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Speaker 2: about that stuff because I'm like, yeah, like because people

330
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Speaker 2: are like which neat category? Yes he's going to go in. Yes,

331
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Speaker 2: you know, everyone is trying to claim him in different directions.

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Speaker 2: And he was like probably just like believed in some

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Speaker 2: shit very deeply, in a very meaningful and useful way,

334
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Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, and maybe it doesn't map perfectly and

335
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Speaker 2: maybe it did, you know, and.

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Speaker 4: And maybe it did and maybe they saw no, which

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Speaker 4: is what I keep finding, like they just saw no contradiction. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: like I see no contradiction between this voodoo and Muslim,

339
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Speaker 4: like I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't see any contradiction.

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Speaker 2: No exactly, And like yeah, I mean I remember once

342
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Speaker 2: years ago I had my my great aunt was a

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Speaker 2: nun and I was like she used to teach and

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Speaker 2: I was like, hey, like what's the deal with like

345
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Speaker 2: creation versus evolution or whatever you teach evolution and she's

346
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Speaker 2: like yeah, And I'm like, is that contradiction And she's

347
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 2: like no, just don't worry about it.

348
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Speaker 3: I like her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that was their answers. It's just like no,

350
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,000
Speaker 2: it's just not a big deal, Like it's fine, cared,

351
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Speaker 2: just complicated, and I yeah, and I think you're right

352
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Speaker 2: about the Like I specifically find myself frustrated at how

353
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Speaker 2: much religious people are. They're rel like people are like

354
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Speaker 2: we love John Brown, like like white white leftist love

355
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 2: John Brown, right, yeah, and like good, he's great. I

356
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:34,640
Speaker 2: like John Brown too.

357
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 3: Yeah he's not. He's a good one. What it was yeah,

358
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Speaker 3: and uh.

359
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Speaker 2: But then the same people will be like militantly atheist

360
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Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's okay, you can be an atheist,

361
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,200
Speaker 2: but like John Brown wasn't.

362
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Speaker 4: He was not an atheist. Yes, I believed a mandate

363
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Speaker 4: from God. I am doing God's work here.

364
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to take away that part of his character

365
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 2: is kind of shitty.

366
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, as disrespectful man. Yeah yeah.

367
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,000
Speaker 4: Like so yeah, no, I'm with that, Like I appreciate that,

368
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,880
Speaker 4: like that has always been like a I'm never able

369
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,919
Speaker 4: to put my finger out when I'm like some like

370
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 4: it don't like I can't. I don't know what to

371
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:15,200
Speaker 4: tell you, Like, it's it's a it's a cultural experience

372
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,919
Speaker 4: that I feel like others have like in their real life,

373
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 4: like in the life you actually live, just like you said,

374
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Speaker 4: like you were like I go up a Catholic school.

375
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, mom, you know aunties a nun like yeah, so

376
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:29,880
Speaker 3: there was no part of your life that I went

377
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Speaker 3: to public school.

378
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Speaker 2: I'm real proud of that.

379
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,920
Speaker 3: But yeah yeah, but yeah.

380
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 2: My aunt's none.

381
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yours and none. So it's just like, you know,

382
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,280
Speaker 3: we just stuff.

383
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,199
Speaker 4: We went to mass yeah, like yeah, yeah, Like what

384
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 4: do you want me to say?

385
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:48,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, anyway, so yeah, the ceremony, uh,

386
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,960
Speaker 2: last week we talked about voting, and we talked about

387
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 2: the Laa, the spirits, the angels, the saints, whatever people

388
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 2: want to want to call it, and how there's different

389
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 2: nations of the Laa, and the Petro nation is the

390
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 2: nation that doesn't take shit and is willing to get

391
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,440
Speaker 2: shit done and does not mind hurting people to get

392
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 2: shit done. So that night in the woods, they called

393
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 2: in a lah named Azilie Danto, who is the most

394
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,680
Speaker 2: important Lua in the Petro family. Azili is more broadly,

395
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,400
Speaker 2: to quote the Encyclopedia of African religion, the Laah of love,

396
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,159
Speaker 2: the symbol of cosmic fertility, par excellence, the mother of

397
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 2: the universe, the giver of children. It is Azille, indeed,

398
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 2: who is responsible for the continuous flow of life. So

399
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,520
Speaker 2: that's the more broad like feminine spirit that they're bringing in.

400
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of different versions of Azille. Azili

401
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 2: Freda is the Rata version of Azille, the nice one,

402
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 2: the calm one, the embodiment of femininity, who is bisexual

403
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 2: as hell and doesn't care what gender of person she

404
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 2: mounts love it. Ezili Danto, the one that they're going

405
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 2: to call in this night. She is not the nice

406
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:56,199
Speaker 2: version of her. She is the feminine incarnation of rage

407
00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,400
Speaker 2: and the hard working mother god dog. Yes, yes, let's go.

408
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 2: And like that's why I'm like, oh, we can't strip

409
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 2: out the religion, because this is the spirit, the literal spirit,

410
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,360
Speaker 2: that is where they're coming from at the start, you know, Yeah,

411
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,679
Speaker 2: Danto is angry and enraged when she is displeased. She

412
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 2: is depicted as a black woman carrying a black infant

413
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,479
Speaker 2: girl in pink clothes. She has two parallel vertical scars

414
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 2: on her right cheek. Some people say that the scars

415
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 2: were ritualistically done in an African style, others that she

416
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,199
Speaker 2: got them fighting white people in the revolution. Sometimes she

417
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,719
Speaker 2: is presented as no nose which was cut off in battle.

418
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,719
Speaker 2: And she is the single mother of seven children. So

419
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 2: you know she knows how to get shit done.

420
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 3: She can get it done. Yeh.

421
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they're in the wind torn woods planning a

422
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 2: violent revolution that they each assume will be the death

423
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,639
Speaker 2: of them. Duddy Bookman gives a speech at the end

424
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 2: of everything. He said, He said, listen to the voice

425
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 2: of liberty which speaks in the hearts of us all.

426
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 2: He called on people to reject the Christian false guy

427
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 2: and trust in the Supreme being, something found in most

428
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 2: of the African religious traditions that have come over. Yeah,

429
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 2: he said, quote the God who created the sun, which

430
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 2: gives us light, which rouses the waves and rules the storm.

431
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 2: Though hidden in the clouds, he watches us. He sees

432
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 2: all that the white man does. The god of a

433
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 2: white man inspires him with crime. But our God calls

434
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 2: upon us to do good works. Our God, who is

435
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 2: good to us, orders us to revenge our wrongs. He

436
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 2: will direct our arms and aid us throw away the

437
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: symbol of the God of the whites, who has so

438
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,440
Speaker 2: often caused us to weep and listen to the voice

439
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 2: of liberty, which speaks in the hearts of all.

440
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 4: Who that is a scathing yeah, scathing report.

441
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, buddy is.

442
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 4: I've always been like, you know, fascinated on, like, yeah,

443
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 4: the role like in American the American slavery tradition where

444
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 4: like generally speaking like Sunday's slaves were allowed to go

445
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 4: to church, you know what I mean.

446
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 3: And because of that, like that's.

447
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 4: Why I like a lot of our expression is very passionate,

448
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,679
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, and energetic, and also looking

449
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 4: a lot more like our own animus traditions of embodiment.

450
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 3: Right.

451
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 4: But one thing I've always cracked up on is like

452
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 4: y'all handed us this book and by the second by

453
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,199
Speaker 4: the second book, you get to Exodus, and you're like,

454
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 4: well wait.

455
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 3: A minute, now, like.

456
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 5: It's say right here, yeah, you're the bad guys, Like

457
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 5: I'm just saying, according to the book, yeah, Like you know,

458
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 5: so we was like I like this, Moses, dude, you know,

459
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 5: like yeah, so so yeah, so you come up with

460
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 5: that and where you're and so like a lot of times, yeah,

461
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 5: just in like the Black Church tradition, who was like,

462
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 5: I don't know what, I don't know a Bible they reading, but.

463
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 3: This one this will say liberty. You don't anyway?

464
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, like I I meet ex evangelicals, that's the

465
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 2: word I think. Yeah, yes, they're like I was like, well,

466
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 2: how'd you get away from the church, And they're like, well,

467
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:11,919
Speaker 2: I read the book they gave me.

468
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 3: Listen, listen.

469
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 5: You're like, oh, if I'm a followed dude, yeah, like

470
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 5: the dude that you supposed to was supposed to be followed.

471
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: That means I can't follow, y'all. That's what it certain

472
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 3: turns out to me.

473
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like, you know, there's a lot of inconsistencies

474
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 2: and complicated things in the Bible and like, but it's

475
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 2: fairly consistent on like take care of poor people and

476
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: the rich people are in trouble on the care for

477
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 2: the poor.

478
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, being on the side of those suffering.

479
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they have this ritual in the woods. Social

480
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 2: fatimon sacrificed a black pig and then they all drank

481
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: its blood. Some say they drank human blood too, which

482
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 2: probably didn't happen, but you know what, if it did,

483
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 2: it does not bother me. One.

484
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 4: Well, that's the Filipino side of me. I'm like, yeah,

485
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 4: it's a dinner one anyway.

486
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: Oh oh no, I don't know that one.

487
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 3: Oh I got it.

488
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 4: Oh oh hey, okay, now the cool Zone Reddit all

489
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 4: my p noise listen, So diniguan they call it the

490
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 4: chocolate meats. So I know this stuff because from where

491
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 4: I'm from and my Stepmo's Filipino. But basically it's it's

492
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 4: beef and pork and it looks like a brown sauce

493
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 4: over it, but the sauce is blood.

494
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it's like Catholics

495
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 2: literally drink blood.

496
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

497
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: English people all of their food is like blood pudding.

498
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. I can't handle English food.

499
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: And still got blood in it. Yeah yeah again, it anyway.

500
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: Wouldn't bother me. But it's all played up, you know. Yeah,

501
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: And this is not the first time we talked about

502
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 2: this on the show. Before they have this revolution, they

503
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 2: swear a solemn oath to one another. I think ritual

504
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 2: is a really important and underutilized tactic and way of

505
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 2: bringing people together. Absolutely, they swear a solemn oath to

506
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 2: each other that they will never betray the revolution. They

507
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: declared that those who died were promised that their soul

508
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: would return to Ganen, just sort of a spiritual conception

509
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: of affort. He's used as like an afterlife. Those who

510
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 2: betrayed the plot never would. Bookman himself would die early

511
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 2: in the fighting. His head is on a pike, probably

512
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 2: at the age of twenty four. But you know what,

513
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: he fucking succeeded. He accomplished something in his life that

514
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,959
Speaker 2: almost no one else can claim, Like, yeah, leading the

515
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: most successful slaver vault in fucking probably human history and

516
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 2: at least the Western Hemisphere's history.

517
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 4: Like yeah, since them Europeans stepped foot on Africa, this

518
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 4: is the most successful.

519
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

520
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 2: And so like I'll take Dina twenty four for that,

521
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: you know, Like.

522
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 3: It's like it's pretty rad.

523
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Fatimon survived the revolution. She married one of

524
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: the most important commanders who was later president of Haiti

525
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: for like a year, and by most accounts, she lived

526
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: to be one hundred and twelve years old. Obviously, birth

527
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: records are kind of fuzzy, but you know what, she

528
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: could live to be one hundred and twelve.

529
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

530
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 2: After she died, she became a Lawah named Marionette. She

531
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 2: is known as Marionette of the Dry Arms or Marionette

532
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: of the dry Feet because she's a skeleton. Her colors

533
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 2: are black and blood red. When she possesses people, they

534
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: become violent. People are afraid of her, but she frees

535
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: people from bondage, and I think she's cool. She's the

536
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: protector of were wolves.

537
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 3: Whoa yeah, okay, yeah, I know a lot of people

538
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 3: are named after her. Fuck yeah yeah.

539
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 2: And they have the ceremony, they vow to be faithful

540
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: to the revolution, and then they fight. They don't fight

541
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: for ads, but because I didn't have a producer telling

542
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 2: me when to cut to ads, I forgot, And so

543
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: they're later in the episode. And I know you all

544
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: were thinking, where are my ads? But here, here they are,

545
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: and we're back. The very next morning, a group of

546
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 2: people from a bunch of different plantations and maybe maroons

547
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: showed up and set off towards the Noah Sugar factory.

548
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: This is the one that had kicked off a lot

549
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: of the strikes with that guy Jean Jacques was hanging

550
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: out as an unemployed slave, a concept that had never

551
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: occurred to me.

552
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I never thought about it.

553
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. They found the white guy overseeing night work and

554
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 2: they stabbed him to death. The estate agent ran out

555
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: to see what was happening, so they shot him. They

556
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 2: killed at least two more white workers. They didn't kill

557
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: the surgeon, and then just around midnight they burned the

558
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: fucking slave labor saw factory to the ground.

559
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

560
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: Then they marched the Dudy plantation. Oh that was the

561
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: reason bookman's name is Duddies because he was owned by

562
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: someone name.

563
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: He was owned by. Yeah.

564
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. They went Hut to Hut and spread the word

565
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: to people to spread the word elsewhere, to go to

566
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: the other plantations. They took the agent prisoner. The agent

567
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 2: said that they discussed their plans openly in front of him,

568
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 2: which was that they wanted quote, nothing less than the

569
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: destruction of all of the white people except some who

570
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 2: didn't own property, some priests, some surgeons, some women, and

571
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 2: to set fire to all the plantations and making themselves

572
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: masters of the country. And it's like this is presented

573
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: as like a gotcha, but I'm like, yeah, that's really

574
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: nice of them to carve out so many exceptions.

575
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: It's so great. Yeah, you know, it so great.

576
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I doesn't even own anyone. Why are you

577
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: gonna kill his?

578
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 3: All right?

579
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 2: You know cool? Like yeah, they marched and gathered forces

580
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 2: as they went. Fifteen hundred of them were fighting by

581
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: the time they reached the coast. And this wasn't the

582
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: only force. There was already revolt at the coastal plantations

583
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 2: as well. So they like show up and people are

584
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 2: already revolting coffee workers. Yeah, like it just fucking this

585
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 2: is like fucking it was just go time. And then

586
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: they all went basically yeah, like is it We're waiting

587
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: for it? Yeah.

588
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

589
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: Coffee workers threw off their chains and were coming down

590
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: out of the mountains to join up with them. All

591
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 2: the forces met up at the coast and then split

592
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: into two. Bookmen went east, burning sugar fields and refineries

593
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: as he went. And there's one fun moment that stands out.

594
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: This huge army comes upon twenty white militia people, all

595
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: but one guy is like fuck this fleet. Nineteen of

596
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: the white guys run away, but the guy who stays

597
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: is a slaver who used to own one of the

598
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 2: guys in the army, and the slaver says, quote, you wretch,

599
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: I was only ever good to you. Why do you

600
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: want to kill me?

601
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 3: That's what they always say. Yeah, but I was I

602
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 3: was nice.

603
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, god yeah, well what about Meto?

604
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 3: But I was like you you like y'all like Meto?

605
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, totally yeah. And the coachman ex slave, stabs

606
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 2: the guy and says, that is true, but I promised

607
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: to kill you.

608
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 3: I love it. It's like, oh yeah, but I mean

609
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 3: I swore an oath man. It's just a law.

610
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: Yes, what's happening. Other revolutionaries would actually protect their former owners,

611
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: just a few of them, but a lot of the

612
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: leaders ended up doing this, And I think I think

613
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: this probably relates to that a lot of the leaders

614
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: were like the drivers and the people who are a

615
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: little bit closer to I knew them. The leader of

616
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: the second wing was a guy named Bellin, and he

617
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: gave a boat to the people who ran his old

618
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: plantation so that they could get away, and so then

619
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: the people fighting alongside him killed him for letting the

620
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: slavers escape. These two forces go around, mostly winning, burning

621
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: almost two hundred plantations foreing fifteen thousand people in like

622
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: the first like ten days, and all the colonists in

623
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: the north flee to capt fronts while the capital but

624
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: the revolution was just getting started. And I know that

625
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: to keep coming back to this like did they have

626
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: a kill all the white people attitude, because it's the

627
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: thing that gets argued about, and I know I kind

628
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: of keep being like, I kind of don't care if

629
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: they did. But it's also still messier than anyone can

630
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: easily explain, yea, because they all had different fucking ideas. Yeah,

631
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: and they were at this point probably, but again, but

632
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: it's also it's so frustrating, right because then there's all

633
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: this propaganda against them for hundreds of years about how

634
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: they're all evil or whatever the fuck. But probably they

635
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: were killing white peop, putting their including kids, and putting

636
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: their heads on pikes and shit, the same shit that

637
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: had been happening to them. The white people insisted it

638
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: was a race war, and it became a race war.

639
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

640
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: Colonial forces counter attacked, attacking armed camps of rebels, but

641
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: the rebels melted into the mountains. Bookman himself died in battle.

642
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: Jean Jacques was captured and executed. Peace talk started up

643
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 2: pretty quick. The priests did a lot of the intermediary

644
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: work because they were sort of neutral. Yeah, And the

645
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: first offer was return to slavery and we won't punish

646
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: you for the revolt, like amnesty.

647
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 3: You know, like, uh, are are we winning?

648
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? That was there at a Yeah, we're winning.

649
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

650
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 2: Their counteroffer, which was honestly perfectly fucking like nicer than

651
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: they should have asked for, was full amnesty, emancipation for everyone,

652
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: and then they would go back and work for wages,

653
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: whereas I'm like, ah, I just seize them means a

654
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 2: production while you're at it, but like you know.

655
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 4: What, like yeah, like I'm down to work. Yeah, Like

656
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 4: I'm just saying.

657
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I want to get paid for my work

658
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: instead of being owned.

659
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Don't you like getting paid

660
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 3: for your work? Yeah? Yeah.

661
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: And so at this point they're not actually fighting against

662
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: France in their mind, they're fighting against the white supremacist

663
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 2: local occupation.

664
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

665
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: So France looks at this revolt and is like, all right, fine,

666
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 2: we're taking away what's left of the rights for free

667
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: black people. And so then the free black people are like,

668
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: all right, even more, we're with the revolution, and here

669
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: we are in part four. I thought I was gonna

670
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: do all the ins and outs of this incredibly complicated

671
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: strategic thing, and I am not going to, yeah, because

672
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: I'm not going to make a six parter or yet.

673
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: But in broader strokes, the new revolutionary government in France,

674
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put revolutionary quotes there because they're going to

675
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: send six thousand troops to put down the slaver volt.

676
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: They fail, and they're like, all right, fine, this isn't working.

677
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: We need to let free black people join the reactionary

678
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: forces fighting against the slaver volt. So they started enrolling

679
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: free men of color into the military, including as officers,

680
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: and so they force diversified the Colonial Assembly to be

681
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: half white and half free men of color. And you'll

682
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: be shocked to know the colonial administration isn't happy about this.

683
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: The whole Western world is kind of going ape shit.

684
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: At this point. It's seventeen ninety three. The French killed

685
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 2: their king, Spain and England declare war on the revolutionary government.

686
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: Spain decides to back the Haitian revolution, making Toussaint and

687
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: the other revolutionary leaders officers in the Royal Spanish Army.

688
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: They offer enslave people their freedom if they fought. They're

689
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: not abolishing slavery, they're just freeing individuals. But you know

690
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,239
Speaker 2: that's a decent deal for people. They're like, yeah, we'll

691
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: take it.

692
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

693
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. In seventeen ninety three, it wasn't looking great for

694
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: the Haitian revolutionaries. Thousands of people were back in chains.

695
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: But then the fucking white supremacist colonists they're like, we

696
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: don't like having these free black people around, so they

697
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: staged a revolt against the French government, also, the one

698
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: that was sort of trying to help them but like

699
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: forcing them to diversify. It's all of a sudden, the

700
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: pro diversity crowd is like, all right, fuck it, full

701
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: emancipation if you help us beat back the other parts

702
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: of France, and so fucking messy. The rebels now joined

703
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: the French revolutionary army. On Halloween seventeen ninety three, France

704
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: declares a general emancipation, no more slavery, and this kicks

705
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: in in seventeen ninety five. Not because they were like

706
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: slow to do it, I think, but I think it

707
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: was like, literally, they're in the middle of a revolution.

708
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're busy too, Yeah, yeah, France is like, listen,

709
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 4: you guys, Okay, listen, if we just call emancipation, will

710
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 4: you guys stop calling us?

711
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, that's what they did. They're like,

712
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: I fine, you fucking win, and.

713
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: But you got it, you got it, go for it. Yeah.

714
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: So suddenly all the former enslaved people are French citizens. Meanwhile,

715
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 2: Macndahl and the Mosquitos are doing most of the killing

716
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: of the various invading European armies. It's yellow fever is

717
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: killing most of the soldiers. You saw it, Levitor, who

718
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: we haven't talked about it in any length I thought

719
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: was going to be the primary character of this entire thing. Yeah,

720
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: he is consolidating power. He's sort of a moderate at

721
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: this point. He doesn't want to kill all the white people.

722
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: He's down to be part of France so long as

723
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: he's in charge. And he actually, controversially to his own people,

724
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: he wants the plantation economy back. He just wants people

725
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: working as paid workers.

726
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

727
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: He starts using his army to force people to go

728
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: back to work.

729
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

730
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: And then he goes to war against other would be leaders.

731
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: He comes out victorious. He's pretty against Vodu at this point.

732
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: Once he's in charge, he forbids dancing and gathering at night,

733
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 2: and things probably would have settled down at this point.

734
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: But Napoleon comes to power in France and he's planning

735
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 2: on bringing back the French Empire instead of the Republic.

736
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 2: He's like, fuck this, We're conquering San du Moung. We're

737
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: bringing back slavery because he wants the economy back and

738
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: he's a racist. Yeah, he sends twenty thousand troops and

739
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: again this is really about race for him. His brother

740
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: in law, Charles Leclerc or Leclair or whatever, I don't know,

741
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 2: fuck with this guy. He invades in eighteen oh two

742
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: and he we must destroy all the blacks in the mountains,

743
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: men and women, and spare only children under twelve years

744
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: of age. We must destroy half of those in the planes,

745
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: and we must not leave a single colored person in

746
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: the colony who has worn an epaulet. Like why though,

747
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: because he it's funny, because I think he claims he's like,

748
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: oh woe is me, This is the only way to

749
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: do it, because he's like they can't be trusted or something. Yeah,

750
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: and his own black officers start defecting from his ranks. Right,

751
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: because he's like, I were just going to kill all

752
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 2: the black people now, and all of those people who

753
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: went and joined his military. He arrested all the black

754
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: troops and his own forces, executing a thousand of them

755
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 2: by pushing them overboard with flower sacks tied to their necks. Wow,

756
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: though it doesn't do you any good decide with the fascists.

757
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just it never works out for you.

758
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. The French arrest Lutorm. He dies in French prison.

759
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: But people keep fighting, as far as I can tell.

760
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: One thing I read was like, look, they actually didn't

761
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 2: fight too hard to protect Luvatore. They kind of didn't

762
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: like him because he's being a dick and like he

763
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 2: was in the army to force everyone to go to work. Yeah,

764
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: but he dies in French prison, which is a shame

765
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: because before he didn't have a chance to listen to

766
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: the products and services that support this show.

767
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: You see what I'm saying, Like he should have Yeah.

768
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: They should have stuck around longer.

769
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very smooth, Thank you, thank you.

770
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the ads and we're back, and so the

771
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: cleric dies a yellow fever and so this should be good, right,

772
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 2: The racist guy dies, Yeah, the way more racist guy

773
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 2: comes in row Shambau ro Shambo. Yeah, rock paper scissors.

774
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: You might have known this. You know where the world's

775
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:58,959
Speaker 2: first gas chambers were used.

776
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 3: So I did know this.

777
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they were used to kill the black prisoners

778
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 2: of war. Yeah, right here by Rochimbo. Yeah. They would

779
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: just fill up the bottoms of the ships with like

780
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: a poison gas and then throw all the black prisoners

781
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: of war down there.

782
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

783
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: And the interesting thing I'm going to say, controversially, no

784
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: white people fought for the Haitian Revolution. But do you

785
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: want to know why? I can say this for certain

786
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 2: because the revolution reformulated the concept of race in Haiti.

787
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 2: Hundreds of Polish soldiers fought for the revolution, and so

788
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: how the Haitian Revolution defined blackness was if you're fighting

789
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: for the revolution, you're black. Yeah.

790
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 3: I love it.

791
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 2: So the polls, most of whom had European heritage, actually

792
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 2: some of at least I'm aware of one officer and

793
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: probably some others who actually had African heritage. Also because

794
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 2: there's black Polish people because yeah, much to the shock

795
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: of modern wise supremacist Europe actually had black people in it,

796
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: going back forever yes, anyway, the polls are mostly what

797
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: we would call white.

798
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: Uh.

799
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: They were considered black in the war legally and have

800
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: been ever Cincinnati.

801
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 4: This is one of my favorite things about race and politics. Yeah,

802
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 4: Like it's a it's a it's a choice, like being white.

803
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 4: It's a choice, like you know that, Like it's it's

804
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 4: only by the law. It's just like you said, look,

805
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 4: you Bolus was black people. So just I don't know

806
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 4: what to tell you, buddy. Yeah, I Irism, Irish, Yeah, Irish,

807
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 4: y'all y're black.

808
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: Made the wrong choice.

809
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: You had a chance, Yeah, you could have. You could

810
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 3: have stayed with us.

811
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty fucking mad about that. Like, whiteness is

812
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: such a like it's the devil's bargain, right, You're like

813
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 2: give up your entire culture and uniqueness in order to

814
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: gain power, you know. Yeah, and so all that's left

815
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: is like fucking shamrocks in Saint Patrick's Day parade.

816
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 4: You know, you guys have but the Irish have been

817
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 4: very on the whole when it comes down to it

818
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 4: being pro Palestine, you know, supporting a black panthers Like.

819
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: Oh, Irish, yes, Irish American, No, yeah, Irish.

820
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 4: American is holy your story. I'm talking about the Irish, yeah.

821
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, because they remember what it's like

822
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 2: to be colonized because it was their grandfather's time, you know,

823
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 2: like and actually part of them it's still call a colony.

824
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 2: Like yeah, So the Polish legions, which I yeah, I

825
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: find this a fucking fascinating story.

826
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 3: So amazing.

827
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: Napoleon sent five thousand of the twenty thousand troops were Poles.

828
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 2: Most of them died a yellow fever, about four thousand

829
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: of them, but hundreds of them switched teams because they

830
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: themselves were freedom fighters. Because Poland. Yeah, other countries, especially

831
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: Prussia and Russia, had been piecemeal stealing bits of Poland

832
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: for a while. Yeah, Poles fought back. They lost a

833
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: couple of wars. In seventeen ninety four, they staged an

834
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 2: uprising that grew out of popular revolt against this occupation.

835
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: After about half a year, the uprising was put down. Austria,

836
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 2: Prussia and Russia were like, fine, we're carving this shit up.

837
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 2: Seventeen ninety seven, they split the country up three ways

838
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 2: and basically was like, there's no more Poland. And Poland

839
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 2: was gone for like one hundred years. A fuck ton

840
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: of Polish troops escaped to France and join the French

841
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 2: military because they're like, well, enemy and my enemy, right, yeah,

842
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 2: and they thought revolutionary France and revolutionaries, they make them

843
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 2: rescue us. Napoleon came to power in eighteen hundred and

844
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 2: he was like, hell, yeah, let's use these Poles as

845
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: fucking useful idiots. So he sent five thousand of them

846
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 2: to die and send them on, and they were horribly

847
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: mistreated within the military. They were ordered to like just

848
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: whenever you need someone like run at the front and

849
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 2: get killed. They sent the Poles and they were often

850
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: just like straight up not paid. And so they were like, well,

851
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 2: these Haitians they're doing the same thing that we're doing.

852
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 2: They're trying to fight off empires and everything has been

853
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: stolen for them. So roughly half of them switched sides,

854
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:10,919
Speaker 2: and as far as I can tell, the ones who

855
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: didn't switch sides, like functionally switch sides, they were like

856
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 2: refusing to shoot and just call.

857
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 3: They're just like yeah, yeah, they quiet quit it. Yeah,

858
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 3: they quiet.

859
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: Quit the fucking invasion.

860
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

861
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: So when the revolution was one in eighteen oh four,

862
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 2: Haiti gets a constitution and it formally enshrined the polls,

863
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: the white Negroes of Europe.

864
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it. That is a ska band.

865
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 2: Yeah totally. I'd be sketched out by them, right right right.

866
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,959
Speaker 4: Like, hey, I need y'all need to unpack this. Every

867
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 4: time you started doing music, you need to unpack where

868
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 4: you got this name.

869
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: Yeah totally. Yeah, there's this this Norwegian folk band. There's

870
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 2: maybe Swedish on a Scandinavian folk band that I listen

871
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 2: to sometimes for a while. Before every single show, they

872
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: would be like, we are not Nazis, and we are

873
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 2: against Nazis. We were against the fact that Nazis use

874
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 2: our heritage to try and do racism. Here's traditional music, Okay,

875
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: here we go yeah's and they're not even like leftists

876
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 2: or whatever. They're just not Nazis.

877
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 4: No, it's like just we're not Nazis. Yeah, we still

878
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 4: we still live on a planet that that's the wrong

879
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 4: side of history.

880
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

881
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

882
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 2: And one of the Polish generals who actually died a

883
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 2: yellow fever. We don't know what he would have done

884
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 2: was the first known black Polish general named uh Jablinowski.

885
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 2: Again because again he was just but this guy speaking

886
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 2: of when you're saying like how these people went to

887
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 2: the same schools as like you know, the Napoleons or whatever.

888
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

889
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jablinowski had actually gone to school with Napoleon literally, wow, Okay,

890
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: and Napoleon and all the other students had called him

891
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: racist shit. Because I also don't want to paint Europe

892
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: as like a weird post, you know, racial utopia just

893
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 2: because there's black people there. Yeah, but Napoleon, Yeah, you

894
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 2: to call this guy racist shit. And yeah, about four

895
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 2: hundred people in the end survive. The Poles survived this,

896
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: and they mostly stayed in a village called Cazale.

897
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 3: And one of the most.

898
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: Interesting syncretic traditions that comes out of it, because like

899
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 2: we talked about a Zelee and how there's like the

900
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: black Madonna figure is one of the symbols, right, Yeah,

901
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 2: there's a Polish icon of the Virgin Mary that goes

902
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: back at least to fourteen thirty, but probably the year

903
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: three twenty six.

904
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 3: Wow.

905
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: And it's one of the most important Polish Christian pieces

906
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: of art. It's called the Black Madonna of Chestejova, and

907
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: it's a super old painting that is a black Madonna

908
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: holding a black Jesus. I think that's important because you

909
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 2: have all these people being like you still run across

910
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 2: people who think Jesus was white, you know.

911
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 3: At that they're dinosaurs if they do. Ye. Yeah.

912
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: And like in the year three twenty six there was

913
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: a painting of came black Jesus and black Madonna.

914
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 3: Yeah there was already a black Jesus. Yeah yeah, and.

915
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 2: This is one of the most important Polish icons.

916
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:09,959
Speaker 3: Wow, what a connection. Yeah.

917
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 4: So when they landed in Haiti, they was like, oh, yeah,

918
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 4: you're not scary.

919
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually agree with y'all. Yeah. Yeah.

920
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 2: So again them speed running the revolution and pointing out

921
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 2: different bits of it, Haiti becomes a country. This guy,

922
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 2: Jean Jacques de Sellin us he's in charge. He is controversial,

923
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: he's accused of genocide. Interestingly enough, no one bothers accusing

924
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: the French of having led a genocide on the island

925
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: and focuses.

926
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 3: On him, of course.

927
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: In a public statement from eighteen oh four, he said,

928
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 2: quote liberty, independence or death. Considering that there still remains

929
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: in the island of Haiti individuals who have contributed, by

930
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 2: their guilty writings or by their sanguinary acquisitions, to the drowning, suffocating,

931
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: assassinating hanging and shooting of more than sixty thousand of

932
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: our brethren under the inhuman government of la cleric in

933
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: russiam Beau. This measure is entered into the order to

934
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: inform the nations of the world that although we grant

935
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: asylum and protection to those who act candidly and friendly

936
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: towards us, nothing shall ever turn our vengeance from those

937
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: murderers who have bathed themselves with pleasure in the blood

938
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 2: of the innocent children of Haiti. And so you have

939
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 2: this the massacre of eighteen oh four, and basically he's like, hey,

940
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 2: we should kill all the remaining French people on the

941
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: island except all of the following list of don't kill

942
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: these people. Yeah, And they killed between three thousand and

943
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: seven thousand people. A lot of people were like, the

944
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: saliness had to actually show up before people would really

945
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: do it. People were like, Oh, we don't know if

946
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: we want to kill all these people. The Poles were

947
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 2: of course legally black, so they weren't killed. So were

948
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: the Germans, apparently just literally just because they had nothing

949
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: to do with the slave trade. Like I don't think

950
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 2: they even fought. I think they just were a flavors

951
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 2: and they spared many or most surgeons, women and children.

952
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: They absolutely killed a bunch of people, And yeah, I

953
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: don't know. And then to Salonis, he he regularly consulted

954
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: with Votu priests, but he also banned vodu ceremonies and

955
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 2: regularly had votu practitioners shop because he was afraid of

956
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: being poisoned. I want to read like whole books about

957
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 2: a lot of these people, but I get the impression

958
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: it's just kind of the classic power problem, Like you

959
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: can be a really amazing revolutionary and then once you

960
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 2: have absolute power, you don't always do great. Yeah, but

961
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 2: the revolution itself scared the ever loving piss out of

962
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 2: white supremacist all over the Western world and emboldened abolitionists everywhere,

963
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 2: and the rest of the world has never forgiven Haiti

964
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 2: for it. But the people of the world fucking owe

965
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 2: so much to the people who fought in that revolution,

966
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 2: more than we can ever know.

967
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 3: It's a good way to put it.

968
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've meddled in Haiti and Haitian politics ever since,

969
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 4: and like do everything we can. It almost is it's

970
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 4: almost like I just don't know what you gain from this.

971
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 4: To make sure that Haiti stays unstable.

972
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: Margaret from the future.

973
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: Here.

974
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: There's a part of all of this that prop and

975
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 2: I talked about a couple days after the recording that

976
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: I want to add in here about just how brutal

977
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 2: the world has been to Haiti ever since. In eighteen

978
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 2: twenty five, twenty years after Haiti's independence, the French king

979
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: sent warships to Haiti to demand that they pay reparations

980
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 2: like Haiti had to pay reparations to France for freeing

981
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: itself one hundred and fifty million francs. This is ten

982
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 2: times the amount that the US had to pay to

983
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 2: literally double itself with the Louisiana purchase. And this reparations

984
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 2: was about stolen property, including you know themselves. Then France

985
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 2: gave Haiti predatory loans to pay it back, kind of

986
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 2: prefiguring the modern International Monetary Fund style of predatory loans.

987
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 2: It took one hundred and twenty two years to pay

988
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: off this loan, and along the way, the US occupied

989
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: Haiti violently for nineteen years from nineteen fifteen to nineteen

990
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: thirty four, using forced labor of Haitians, which killed just

991
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 2: a fuck ton of people. In the end, imperialists basically

992
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 2: just demanded Haiti pay forty percent of its income towards

993
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: its debt, and so they finally paid off their debt

994
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty seven by crippling their economy.

995
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 4: My curiosity, of course stays itching. But I think ultimately

996
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 4: is what you're saying, where it was just like they

997
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 4: threw off their slave owners and it was proof of

998
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 4: concept and that's what we needed, you know.

999
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I think that's part of the you know,

1000
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 2: you're like, well, what's what does the world have to

1001
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 2: gain to keep punishing Haiti over and over and over again.

1002
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: And I think it gets back to that thing where

1003
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's not about economics,

1004
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 2: it's about white supremacy. It is about like, you did

1005
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: that and you were not allowed and you are punished

1006
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 2: forever for dare to challenge white supremacy and like, and

1007
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 2: I used to it's like interesting because I see how

1008
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 2: white supremacy is this very important piece of the master

1009
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: oppressive world we have in front of us or whatever.

1010
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 2: But I used to kind of think that it all

1011
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 2: came down to economics. Yeah, and it's just like learning

1012
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: more and more that I'm like, no, a lot of

1013
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 2: it really just straight up comes down to racism and

1014
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: like white supremacy.

1015
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and to have to continue to bolster something that

1016
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 4: is materially false, which is we are a superior spechi,

1017
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 4: that white is a superior species than everybody else. You

1018
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 4: have to keep adding little twigs and duct tape to

1019
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 4: keep that thing standing, you know. And it's just like

1020
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 4: this is at what point are you like this is absurd? Guys,

1021
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 4: just like you don't have Like sometimes I feel like

1022
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 4: the human in me wants to be like you don't

1023
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 4: have to do this, man, Like you don't have to

1024
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:02,439
Speaker 4: do this, Like you're I know, you're exhausted, Like you're exhausted.

1025
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 4: You don't have to do this. Yeah it's fine, Yeah yeah.

1026
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 2: You can just like you can just chill out with

1027
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: everyone else, you know, just real.

1028
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 3: Man, Like just here, have a beer.

1029
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, just sit down, man, smoke this like just like

1030
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 4: you see we're all having a great time. Yeah, we're

1031
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 4: all just we're all having a great time.

1032
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1033
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. When you're saying earlier about how like just a

1034
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 2: second about it leaves you like this four parter does

1035
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 2: not get into half of the shit that I thought

1036
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 2: it was going to. And like there's still so much

1037
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 2: about the way that the revolution itself unfolded on a

1038
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 2: political level larger than that. I found myself focused in

1039
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 2: the end on the like the whipsaw context, the like

1040
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 2: things that built up to it, partly because I'm like,

1041
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: there's more modern overlaps than I expected, especially all the

1042
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 2: weird basically DEI and like the you know, there's all

1043
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 2: these things that I thought were really important, and then

1044
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: I but yeah, I look at this and I'm like,

1045
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: I want to know more about to some and the

1046
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 2: like complicated nature of like coming to power where he

1047
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 2: was like, look, oh, I'm fine to be French and

1048
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 2: I'm fining to keep the plantation system. I just want

1049
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 2: people to get work, you know. But then also, like

1050
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 2: the implication at least some of the stuff I'm reading

1051
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 2: is that we've kind of became kind of a tyrant

1052
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 2: and so did dissalonest or whatever. Yeah, then I'm like,

1053
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 2: but but everything's so politicized with the Haitian Revolution that

1054
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: it's like maybe more than any other topic. I'm not

1055
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: sure I've probab run across all the ones almost as

1056
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 2: bad as this, but like everything is so politicized and

1057
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 2: propagandized in different directions. It's like just fucking hard to know,

1058
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: you know, without without getting my degree in it. And

1059
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: and so that's like why I'm trying to focus on

1060
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 2: the like stuff I can feel a little bit more

1061
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 2: confident about I can, which is that it's fucking cool

1062
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 2: to have a revolution.

1063
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 3: Man, well these are these are cool folks.

1064
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1065
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is always moral and good to burn down

1066
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 2: the plantation that slaves people.

1067
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,439
Speaker 5: I mean, I feel like there are very few absolutes.

1068
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, that would be that would be one.

1069
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like stabbing the guy being like but I

1070
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: always treat you good, and you're like, yeah, I gotta

1071
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: kill you.

1072
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, that's just like that's just.

1073
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: Kind of a moral truth. Sometimes you're like, yeah, but

1074
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: you you fucking own me.

1075
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's the thing.

1076
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 4: Man, But if I but see, if I don't kill you,

1077
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 4: and this guy's asking and that, and then it's like

1078
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 4: then we just all go home.

1079
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 3: So I might as well, you know, this is what

1080
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 3: we're gonna do. Yeah, at times nine o'clock, you know.

1081
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just the arrogance of like being alone

1082
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: in front of an army and being like, you wretch,

1083
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 2: you know, you're not getting out of.

1084
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 4: That and then to be like Okay, so if y'all stop,

1085
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 4: we won't punish you.

1086
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 3: You just go back to you like stop what Yeah?

1087
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because they had a chance out so many

1088
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: times they were down to be part of France. They

1089
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: were down to hell they probably maybe not, maybe it's

1090
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: possible that the slave system would have stayed if they

1091
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 2: hadn't fucking alienated all the free people of color, like yeah,

1092
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah, it's possible. And I would like

1093
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 2: to say that, you know, the slaves were the largest

1094
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,240
Speaker 2: portion of the people doing the fighting, you know, of course. Yeah,

1095
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 2: so I like to think they would have pulled it

1096
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 2: off anyway. But yeah, well thanks for coming along on

1097
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: this this uh this journey with me.

1098
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 4: Oh man, thank you. You gave me an option, and

1099
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 4: I'm glad I took this option. This is uh, this

1100
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 4: is fun times.

1101
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1102
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 2: Well I am fucking brain dead.

1103
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 3: I'm done. Help me done, Like I was like prop bipop,

1104
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 3: I think.

1105
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 2: Hell yeah yeah, everyone check out Who Politics Is prop

1106
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 2: It is an amazing podcast about current events and I

1107
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: have a sub stack you can google it.

1108
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 4: I gotta figure out I got to figure out a

1109
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 4: way to get you on, Like I gotta figure out, Like,

1110
00:53:58,280 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 4: we got to find a topic.

1111
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 2: That like wors the angle is?

1112
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, what the angle is? Yeah, I'll be into it.

1113
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 3: We'll figure it out. I think, I think the crowd

1114
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 3: wild love it.

1115
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well next week more cool stuff.

1116
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 3: Bye everyone, Let's go.

1117
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1118
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1119
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: visit our website Foolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1120
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1121
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 2: You get your podcasts.