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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You from housetop works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen

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Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And Caroline, I hope that this isn't

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Speaker 1: a too forward of a question to ask you in

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Speaker 1: a public forum, But I mean, do you think that

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Speaker 1: we're each other's work wives? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think so. We We work closely together, we see each

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Speaker 1: other outside of work. If anything weird is happening at work,

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Speaker 1: we're probably going to take a walk and talk about it.

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Speaker 1: We go pick up coffee together, we go downstairs and

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Speaker 1: shop at Jake Crew together. We have, thanks to you,

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Speaker 1: matching angry liberal feminists kill joy coffee mugs. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we can get much work wifeier

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Speaker 1: than we are now. I were the wife eist, So

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Speaker 1: basically this podcast to just be called work wives. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome back, not sister wise no no, no, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: get a lot of confused listeners. Different. So I was

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Speaker 1: really interested to read about the whole work spouse relationship

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Speaker 1: because there are so many ways that you can cut it,

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Speaker 1: whether it is like a really close work friend or

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Speaker 1: the work wife who or work husband who might make

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Speaker 1: your actual wife or husband nervous like your co workers nervous. UM.

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Speaker 1: I love workplace relationship chats. Yeah yeah, and I I

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Speaker 1: do think that there are some things, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about this that can certainly complicate a work spouse relationship.

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Speaker 1: A lot of those things do have to do with

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Speaker 1: if your sexual orientations match each other's. Caroline minds, do

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Speaker 1: not doubt know. Um, at my last job, well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: aside from dude roommate who's like my life work spouse

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Speaker 1: and but he's your life wife, he is. Um, I

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Speaker 1: did have another work spouse who is a gay man,

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Speaker 1: and so that takes off any like potential conflict or

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Speaker 1: jealousy with a partner, although when all we want to

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Speaker 1: do is spend time together, I guess that there's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of jealousy. But then you've also got to

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Speaker 1: worry too about you know, do other coworkers feel excluded?

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Speaker 1: Do they feel like they're being left out? Is your

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Speaker 1: work spouse possibly casting you in a negative light by association?

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Speaker 1: I know you're just going around spewing terrible things out

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Speaker 1: of your mouth. Part that's gonna reflect badly on the

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Speaker 1: person you spent all your time with. Yeah, like when

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Speaker 1: when Matt and I ran around our old office putting

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Speaker 1: googly eyes on everything. I mean, well, we were doing

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Speaker 1: that together, so we reflected poorly on each other. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just imagining, like if Billy Eichner from Billy on

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Speaker 1: the Street wererior were your work wife. Because he's just

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Speaker 1: so so loud, always yelling. I was angry. I was

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Speaker 1: the one of my last job who got in trouble

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Speaker 1: for being loud. I did have the the boss, like

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Speaker 1: the boss boss come in to the break room and

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Speaker 1: tell me that my laugh carried so well. I hope

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Speaker 1: you responded, Actually, it doesn't carry it, Carol Lines, don't

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Speaker 1: call me Carrie. I'll fire myself now, thank you. So,

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Speaker 1: before we get to our our work spouse situation in

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Speaker 1: our millennial workplaces, why don't we talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how it used to be, because actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: the whole work spouse thing, or at least like work bestie,

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Speaker 1: is less common than it was. Yeah, which to me

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Speaker 1: almost feels counterintuitive because I feel like we spend so

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Speaker 1: much more time working. The forty hour work week is

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Speaker 1: something that I aspired to um and you know, when

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Speaker 1: you when you work in those kind of nebulous creative

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Speaker 1: and digital fields. Your work is never done and also

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Speaker 1: you can do it any time in any place, and

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Speaker 1: so there is that issue of seven connectivity as well. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we were looking at one study that showed

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Speaker 1: and this is something cited by Adam Grant in the

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Speaker 1: New York Times. But yeah, the studies show that in

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Speaker 1: about half of Americans said they had a close friend

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Speaker 1: at work, and by two thousand four this was true

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Speaker 1: for only thirty percent. And that's crazy. With how much

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Speaker 1: time we's been working, why don't we have more work friends.

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Speaker 1: And we even see that stat reflected in younger people's

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Speaker 1: expectations of their work environment and what their work friendship

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Speaker 1: situation is going to be. So in that same study

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Speaker 1: that Grant cited, UH, in two thousand and six, just

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Speaker 1: fort of American high school seniors thought that it was

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Speaker 1: very important to find a job where they could make friends.

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Speaker 1: That had been fifty percent in nineteen seventy six. Because

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Speaker 1: even though we're spending more time at work, we're I

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Speaker 1: don't know, we're just like efficiency machines or something. Oh god,

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Speaker 1: I think it's the opposite. Um, I think us spending

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Speaker 1: more time at work is less efficient. But let's now

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Speaker 1: refer people to our Bossed Up episode with guest Emily

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Speaker 1: Aries for more on that. Um. But to me, it

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Speaker 1: does make sense that we have d prioritized work friendships

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Speaker 1: because our entire approach to work and the workplace in

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Speaker 1: general has changed so much for people in our generation

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Speaker 1: and obviously will continue changing for younger folks as well, because,

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Speaker 1: for one, long term employment is no longer the aspirational

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Speaker 1: goal where you will work at X company for forty years,

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Speaker 1: they'll give you your knockoff roll X about to say,

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Speaker 1: a Rolodex, you wear that in your wrist, Yeah, I'd

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Speaker 1: be like a neat little bracelet heavy look at my

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Speaker 1: charm bracelet of despair. But of course that's not reality anymore.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as soon as the recession hit, I feel

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Speaker 1: like we millennials do not expect to be in jobs

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Speaker 1: typically more than like five years. Yeah, well you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean you've got the positive and negative side of that. Like,

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Speaker 1: we as a generation want to do the thing that

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Speaker 1: makes us happy. We want to chase down happiness. We're

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Speaker 1: not taught. We don't feel like we need to be

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Speaker 1: loyal to a company for fifty years. It's not one

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Speaker 1: of our top priorities instead of us tapping into our

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Speaker 1: passions Caroline right, passion jobs and yeah, I mean we

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Speaker 1: You know, I was at my first job out of

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Speaker 1: college for four years amid the recession, and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: really leave while that was happening because knew wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: able to get a job. But once I did, catapulted

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Speaker 1: right out of there. Yeah. I've been at hell Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works going on eight years. So you're almost at that

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Speaker 1: gold Rolodex. Yeah, I've almost got a gold millennial. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: gold Rolodex. And yeah, if my job were a child,

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Speaker 1: it would be in late elementary school. Yeah, and packing

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Speaker 1: its own lunch. So that's good. Yeah, I mean momy

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Speaker 1: got time for that. Yeah, at least it's a little

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Speaker 1: a little less hands on. Um. But in addition to

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Speaker 1: the fact that we don't necessarily stick around in one place,

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Speaker 1: we we job hop in ways like never before. Teleworking

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Speaker 1: also means less face to face communication. Although I do

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Speaker 1: feel like, Wow, I don't interface with people all that

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Speaker 1: often in my job because I do tell a work.

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Speaker 1: You and I both tell a work fairly often. But

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Speaker 1: thanks to slack, g chat and text in texting, I

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Speaker 1: think that's what they call it texting. We are always

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Speaker 1: still communicating, yeah, exactly. And one study did show that,

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Speaker 1: and this was a huge study, that as long as

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Speaker 1: you were in the office at least two and a

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Speaker 1: half days a week, and that applies to us, uh,

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Speaker 1: it won't have a negative effect on your work relationships.

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Speaker 1: You know, you'll still have you can still be buddy

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Speaker 1: buddy with people at work, just maybe not have a

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Speaker 1: work spouse per se. Yeah, I don't think that our

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Speaker 1: work Boston marriage has suffered from our teleworking. No, no,

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Speaker 1: not by any means. Um. You've also got the issue

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Speaker 1: of social media allowing us to remain connected with old friends,

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Speaker 1: college friends, whatever. So perhaps there is less of a drive,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're just at work, keeping your head down,

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Speaker 1: working for the weekend, because you know that, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you get to that weekend, you'll probably be able

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Speaker 1: to visit with friends that you've been able to keep

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Speaker 1: up with on the internet. And I'm wondering with all

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Speaker 1: of this keeping our heads down and working for the weekend.

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Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't ever accuse the millennial generation of

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Speaker 1: having a Protestant work ethic per se. But I mean

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Speaker 1: we do have lingering aspects of that in order to

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Speaker 1: make it to the vacation, to make it to the

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Speaker 1: long holiday weekend or whatever. And of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're wondering what the Protestant work ethic is and

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Speaker 1: you've been under a rock for hundreds of years, uh,

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Speaker 1: it comes from Martin Luther preaching that hard work and

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Speaker 1: any occupation was a meaningful duty. It was a calling

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Speaker 1: from God. And then John Calvin of you know Calvinism,

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Speaker 1: uh not can not Calvin Klein, Yeah, John Calvin Klein.

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Speaker 1: But you could argue that John Calvin's underwear were the

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Speaker 1: original Calvin's the original sin oh uh yeah. So Calvin

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Speaker 1: argued that people needed to avoid socializing while working because

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Speaker 1: you've got to put all of your attention and effort

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Speaker 1: into fulfilling God's will through your work. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: let's gloss over a whole bunch of history and condense

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Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff into a really simplistic statement, which

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Speaker 1: is basically, like white Protestant guys, we're the one have

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Speaker 1: been the ones in power forever in this country, and

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Speaker 1: they're the ones who are the CEOs of office is traditionally,

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Speaker 1: and so you have this ingrained culture of put your

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Speaker 1: head down and get your work done. But what more

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Speaker 1: recent research is finding, and I think what newer companies

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Speaker 1: are facilitating, is how jobs are more satisfying when they

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Speaker 1: provide social opportunities, you know. I mean just think about

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Speaker 1: the Google Plex and all of the amenities that it has,

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Speaker 1: you know, for whether it is like free sushi. My

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Speaker 1: mind is always goes to the sushi. I want that

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Speaker 1: Google Sushi so badly. Um, but they'll have you know,

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Speaker 1: like video game rooms where you and your you know,

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Speaker 1: pro grammars can go chill acts and play some duck hunt.

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Speaker 1: I've clearly never been in that space before. Christen's actually

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Speaker 1: never left the house before. We're community. This is all

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Speaker 1: via the magic of the Internet that we're communicating. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I mean even that goes back to what you

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Speaker 1: were saying about more time spend at work isn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: more efficient. I mean, I think giving people those perks

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Speaker 1: at work to make them happier is important, and it

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Speaker 1: creates a happier workspace, which logically, so the logic goes

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Speaker 1: should make them better workers. But if we are just

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Speaker 1: working for the weekend with like our twisted millennial so

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Speaker 1: to speak, Protestant work ethic. You know, if we're not

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Speaker 1: taking the time to form those friendships and to enjoy

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Speaker 1: duck hunt and sushi at work, then we won't be

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Speaker 1: as happy as we could be. That's what researchers argue. Also,

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Speaker 1: those are my new like that is my work life

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Speaker 1: balance skull, some duck hunt and sushi. Yeah at my

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Speaker 1: job just a regular Tuesday afternoon fall half. What is

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Speaker 1: not my work life balance skull nor anyone's. I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't know that anyone actually likes this is the

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Speaker 1: toxic work environment. Yeah. And So to further drive home,

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Speaker 1: which is what we're going to be doing throughout this podcast.

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Speaker 1: To further drive home the importance of having that positive,

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Speaker 1: healthy work environment, we need to look at a study

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Speaker 1: that came out in from recruiting firm Cornerstone on Demand

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Speaker 1: and Northwestern University that looked into what being part of

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Speaker 1: a toxic work environment does for us. Because as much

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Speaker 1: as a happy work environment can contribute to our productivity,

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Speaker 1: toxic work environments, as anyone who's ever had a job

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Speaker 1: out there can attest to, that really takes away from

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Speaker 1: our productivity. So the study found that three to five

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Speaker 1: of all employees are fired for toxic behavior related reasons,

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Speaker 1: or I guess that's three to five percent of all

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Speaker 1: places who are fired, not just like Kristen today, is

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Speaker 1: you because you had because you're toxic um And those

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Speaker 1: reasons could be things like misconduct even drug or alcohol

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Speaker 1: abuse on the job, sexual harassment, and to have a

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Speaker 1: toxic coworker. And I have worked with someone at an

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Speaker 1: old job who did abuse substances at the office, and

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Speaker 1: trust me, it made things a little tense. Uh. That

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Speaker 1: toxic behavior does increase the likelihood that their colleagues will

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Speaker 1: themselves then engage in toxic bus basically because maybe they

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Speaker 1: feel resentful, or they just feel threatened or something, or

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Speaker 1: they'll just quit. So that the way that your environment

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Speaker 1: is shaped and feels at work absolutely affects everybody. And

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Speaker 1: having friends at work, even if they're not best friends,

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Speaker 1: but for sure, if you have a work spouse or two,

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Speaker 1: because again we're getting into sister work spouses, a little polygamy,

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Speaker 1: polygamy that can contribute to helping people want to stay yeah,

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Speaker 1: and maybe providing a buffer from that toxicity, because as

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Speaker 1: anyone who has worked in a toxic environ rnament knows,

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Speaker 1: it spreads like a virus. It does so quickly, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't take much. I my first job out of college

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Speaker 1: was at the newspaper, and you know, I came on

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Speaker 1: staff with such you know, a glimmer in my eye,

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Speaker 1: like so excited, uh totally naive. Um And one of

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Speaker 1: the first people I met was this woman who you know,

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Speaker 1: came off as very nice and funny and welcoming. And

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Speaker 1: then it just our relationship and I came to find

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Speaker 1: out that it was her relationship with everyone became one

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Speaker 1: of those toxic relationships because she loved to gossip. She

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Speaker 1: loved to uh pit people against each other. It was

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Speaker 1: just really unhealthy. But it I watched, and I can

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Speaker 1: especially see it now looking back watches. It just infected

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Speaker 1: everybody because it's hard to escape that negativity. Well, and

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Speaker 1: that brings us back to the positive role of a

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Speaker 1: work spouse or just a work bestie. If spouse feels

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Speaker 1: like too much of a commitment, you know, to say.

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Speaker 1: Um So, this research is coming from in the European

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Speaker 1: Business Review, because we are continental like that, like croissants. Yes, indeed,

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Speaker 1: we are the Croissans of podcasters. Um So. Researchers have

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Speaker 1: consistently found that employees who are friendlier work well together,

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Speaker 1: no big surprise, And a link has also been found

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Speaker 1: between relationship factors like cooperation and social support and team productivity.

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Speaker 1: So basically like nice people work better together and more

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Speaker 1: productively together exactly. Not to say if there's anything wrong

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Speaker 1: with like the occasional like lunch break cavetching session, but

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Speaker 1: when people who work together genuinely like each other, I

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Speaker 1: think it definitely adds to the environment. And plus, people

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Speaker 1: who say they have friends at work, according to this research,

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Speaker 1: are happier on the job. They report higher satisfaction, more cohesion,

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Speaker 1: more commitment to the company, and less intention to leave.

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Speaker 1: Even though, as we were talking about earlier, getting that

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Speaker 1: gold watch or for millennials gold rolodex is totally antiquated,

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Speaker 1: but it does make it a little bit emotionally anyway,

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Speaker 1: a little bit harder to leave when you are BFFs

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Speaker 1: or in a work spouse type relationship with someone because

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Speaker 1: because you don't want to let them down. You know,

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Speaker 1: I remember when dude roommate was leaving his old job.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was he was going to be making

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Speaker 1: a better and more positive step for himself career wise,

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Speaker 1: but he did feel connected to so many of his

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Speaker 1: work friends, and you don't want to leave them holding

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Speaker 1: the bag. But I mean, eventually, you know, you've got

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Speaker 1: to take the job. It's better for you, and hopefully

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Speaker 1: your work spouse is supportive. Well, yeah, it's just so

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Speaker 1: much time spent together too, on the emotional ups and

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Speaker 1: downs of the workplace. I know, like who's bringing in lunch?

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Speaker 1: Are you gonna get food poisoning from the work potluck?

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Speaker 1: And if you work at dunder Mifflin, for instance, it's

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Speaker 1: always you know, who's dating who this week? You know,

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Speaker 1: did Dwight put Jim's sandwich in a funny place? Is

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Speaker 1: Pam still silently just staring at the back of Jim's

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Speaker 1: head because she can't tell him how she really feels? Pam, Yeah, Pam, Jam.

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Speaker 1: And here's the thing. If you're Michael Scott, though, at

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Speaker 1: the Michael Scott of your office, your boss is not

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Speaker 1: into coworker friendships and relationships, is a little suspect or

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Speaker 1: even hostile toward them. That's probably not a good sign

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Speaker 1: about your boss. It's probably a sign that you might

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Speaker 1: have a Michael Scott. Yeah, because h a lot of

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Speaker 1: the research we read pointed out that okay, on the

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Speaker 1: surface level work friendships, they might signal a lack of

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Speaker 1: productivity because if you're chatting, if you're grabbing maybe a

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Speaker 1: long lunch, if you're doing this or that, your boss

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Speaker 1: might look at that and say, well, why aren't you working.

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Speaker 1: But according to Gallop, back from when they did a

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Speaker 1: deep dive into factors that make workers more productive, they

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Speaker 1: found that employers who recognize the role that close friendships

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Speaker 1: play in terms of fostering productivity, they're gonna be on

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Speaker 1: the better end of things. They're gonna basically, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: be rewarded for helping people foster those friendships because their

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Speaker 1: workers will be happier and therefore more productive versus your

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Speaker 1: kind of stick in the mud boss who you know

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Speaker 1: maybe walks into the brake room and tells you you're

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Speaker 1: too loud because you're laughing at your work spouse because

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Speaker 1: your laughter carolinees too far. But the question then is

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Speaker 1: whether there's a difference in having friendly casual acquaintances versus

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Speaker 1: the work bestie or work spouse, Because with casual work friends,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they kind of require less maintenance and are

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Speaker 1: less likely to be a distraction, and they can also

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Speaker 1: be a sounding board, foster teamwork and help get stuff

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Speaker 1: done without the sense of obligation associated with off the

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Speaker 1: clock best friends. But there's a wrinkling this. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: this study by management professors at the University of Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: and the University of Minnesota found that when they had

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Speaker 1: people complete a task, they either had acquaintances or they

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Speaker 1: had work friends work spouses. Basically, friends outperformed acquaintances every time.

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Speaker 1: And there's some critical factors in this. Like we said,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to leaving a company, like quitting a company,

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Speaker 1: your work spouse is going to make it harder because

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Speaker 1: you feel that sense of loyalty. So those friends were

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Speaker 1: more committed at the start of the project, They showed

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Speaker 1: better communication throughout the project. They offered their teammates positive

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Speaker 1: encouragement every step along the way. But they also, based

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Speaker 1: on the strong foundation of their friendship, didn't feel like

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Speaker 1: they could not offer criticism. If they saw that one

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Speaker 1: of their teammates was about to do something bone did,

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Speaker 1: they could say, you know, I don't know if that's

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Speaker 1: the right way to do it. What about this? They

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Speaker 1: could give each other that honest, open feedback. Whereas when

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Speaker 1: they looked at how the acquaintances who were paired up

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Speaker 1: were working, They were across the board, held back by

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Speaker 1: lack of communication. They appeared to prefer working alone. They

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Speaker 1: were less comfortable seeking help, and they resisted pointing out

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Speaker 1: when a coworker was about to make a mistake. So

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Speaker 1: it sounds like that friendship helps bolster the work that's

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Speaker 1: being done. Yeah, I mean, and this makes me think

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Speaker 1: of Myers Briggs tests, And I would be curious to

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Speaker 1: see how people who had those strong workplace friendships might

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Speaker 1: differ in personality traits versus acquaintance type people, because there's

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Speaker 1: like a little bit of an acquaintance in me, like

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Speaker 1: my my solo homeschooler self, Um, you know as a

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Speaker 1: kid has definitely like come along with me as I've aged.

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Speaker 1: But I also know that I need like the collaboration. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know matching feminist cough. I know, we do collaborate.

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Speaker 1: You know, we stop, we collaborate and we listen. We do,

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Speaker 1: we do. And all of this is backed up again

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Speaker 1: by that Gallop study that found that workers who said

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Speaker 1: they had a best friend at work, we're way more

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Speaker 1: likely to enjoy some pretty cool perks. They were way

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Speaker 1: more likely to report having received praiser recognition for their

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Speaker 1: work in the past week. Uh, way more likely to

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Speaker 1: say that someone at work encourages their development. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: were thirty five percent more likely to report coworker commitment

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Speaker 1: to quality basically the positivity and productivities off the charts

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Speaker 1: for people who say, yes, I have a work spouse

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Speaker 1: slash BFF slash whatever, because I don't think Gallup used

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Speaker 1: the term work spouse well and even to the point

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Speaker 1: this jumped out the fact that they were also seven

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Speaker 1: percent more likely to report that their companies mission makes

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Speaker 1: them feel their job is important. Because that kind of commitment,

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Speaker 1: you know, in that belief in the company bottom line,

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Speaker 1: you know, is to me would be a hallmark of

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Speaker 1: an outstanding, outstandingly positive company culture. Yeah. Well, because I mean, hopefully,

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Speaker 1: with all the factors we've talked about, hopefully this means

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Speaker 1: that you do have a boss who is open to

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Speaker 1: letting these work relationships flourish, and you do have opportunities

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Speaker 1: for that open and honest collaboration where you can bounce

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Speaker 1: ideas off of each other while you play duck hunt

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Speaker 1: and eat your sushi. Um, you know, because otherwise I

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Speaker 1: feel like a lot of creativity can be stifled if

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Speaker 1: you don't let people have those relationships. I had a

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Speaker 1: job where, uh, the boss. It was a very small company,

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Speaker 1: and the boss was super not okay with people talking

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Speaker 1: with each other. Uh, God help you. If she found

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Speaker 1: you out of your desk, she was just convinced that

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Speaker 1: anyone who was having a conversation, even if it was

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Speaker 1: to blow off steam or you were just literally on

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Speaker 1: your way back from the bathroom or something, she just

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Speaker 1: convinced you were like plotting against the company and not working. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so you can imagine like creativity definitely hit a

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Speaker 1: ceiling at that place. But anyway, we're gonna move on

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Speaker 1: from just talking about my work history and dive a

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Speaker 1: little bit more into work spouses when we come right

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Speaker 1: back from a quick break. So let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: qualities of a work spouse that differentiates them from just

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Speaker 1: your average work pal, acquaintance, desk occupier who doesn't talk much. Um.

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Speaker 1: Sophie Cleman over at Mike wrote about this in novoting that,

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Speaker 1: according to survey results from vault dot com, of the

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Speaker 1: respondents from a variety of industries reported having a so

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Speaker 1: called office husband or office wife, and a separate survey

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Speaker 1: of only white collar workers found that number was about

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Speaker 1: double Yeah, that's interesting, So white collar workers. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if that is affected by the focus on more like

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Speaker 1: creative work, applied arts jobs. Maybe think office environments that

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Speaker 1: are a little more loosey goosey. Yeah, I would think that, um,

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Speaker 1: in more traditional workplaces where there is more of a

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Speaker 1: career ladder as opposed to service industry jobs UM or

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Speaker 1: obviously like freelance work, UM, that those might facilitate more

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Speaker 1: of those kinds of collaborative relationships because you need those

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Speaker 1: networks in order to get ahead. Yeah that's true. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, your work spouse is you know, you can

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Speaker 1: be friends a lot of people at work, but your

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Speaker 1: work spouse is your person the one you click with

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Speaker 1: without any romantic spark. And that's the key because well,

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Speaker 1: as we'll talk about, that is definitely the key. Pam

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00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: and Jim, that's right. Well know what I mean. You know, uh, dude,

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Speaker 1: roommate is a straight guy. I'm a straight girl. But

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Speaker 1: because we had literally been friends so long and we

404
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Speaker 1: had met under circumstances where we were both dating other people, like,

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Speaker 1: we never had a romantic spark between us. UM, A

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Speaker 1: lot of people find that hard to believe, but you know,

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Speaker 1: we really are truly BFFs, and so working together it

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Speaker 1: was like the perfect work spouse relationship, even though so

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Speaker 1: many psychologists are like, don't do it. So on a

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Speaker 1: related note, then this is interesting. So would you have you?

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Speaker 1: Guys both gotten pressure from people from time to time

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Speaker 1: of like, why are you all like other? Don't you

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Speaker 1: like him? Doesn't he like you? Um? Not really because

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Speaker 1: because best of the people who know both of us

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Speaker 1: know we would never in a million years date because

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Speaker 1: we are not each other's type at all. Um. But

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Speaker 1: at at the job where we worked together, Uh, there

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Speaker 1: were a couple of women who did not know us

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Speaker 1: very well. They just knew that we were roommates and

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Speaker 1: that we literally spent like so much time together, and

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Speaker 1: they were like, oh, you guys are in love with

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Speaker 1: each other. We see the way you react to each other,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, now I first of all, stop it,

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Speaker 1: stop it. Second of all, I mean, how do you

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Speaker 1: act with your best friend? You know? Um? So really yeah,

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Speaker 1: not not very much. There There's never been any of

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Speaker 1: that pressure really because he and I are so similar

428
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: but so different. But that does become you know, a

429
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: challenge sometimes if you have like an opposite sex work

430
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: spouse relationship where because people even still to this day,

431
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: have such a hard time believing that men and women

432
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: can be friends, so that more specifically, like straight men

433
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: can be legitimately friends with women of really any sexual

434
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: orientation without having ulterior motives, which is just insulting on

435
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: a Brazilian levels. Um. And I would imagine that that

436
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: might be even more scrutinized in the workplace. Yeah, I mean,

437
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: and you know, we've seen studies before where and we'll

438
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: talk about gender a little bit more in a second,

439
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: but you know, we've seen studies that show that men

440
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: in cross sex straight friendships, men do interpret some signs

441
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,479
Speaker 1: and symptoms a little differently than women do. Um. And

442
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: that can lead to a little bit of of getting

443
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: butt wrecked basically over a situation, to put it poetically,

444
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: to put it super poetically. Um, but I think that

445
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: you you can't say it makes for nice headlines to

446
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: say definitely one way or the other, but you obviously

447
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: can't say anything definitively because people are all different people

448
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 1: of people, people of people. So we've established then that

449
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: your work spouse is just like your person, you know, you,

450
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: you do have chemistry like Christina's and Meredith on Gray's Anatomy,

451
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: although they were also BFFs like I r l so,

452
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: But that was the first thing I thought of, was

453
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: when Christina and Meredith are like bonding and they established

454
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: that they are people. Well, this just brought to mind

455
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: the work spouse relationships on The Mindy Project, because Mindy,

456
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: played by Mindy Kaling, has like an actual romantic relationship

457
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: with one of the doctors. But Morgan, one of the nurses,

458
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: is one percent Mendy's work wife, although he is not

459
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: Mindy's like work husband, you know what I mean, Like

460
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: she's not that too. She doesn't serve him in any

461
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: reciprocal kind of way, which adds to the humor of

462
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: it because Morgan wants to do anything he can to

463
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: make Mindy's life easier, when in fact, I would argue,

464
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: and looking forward to hearing from Mindy Project fans on this,

465
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: I would argue that she she has another work husband,

466
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: Peter Prentiss, who's like the charming, funnier, like another doctor,

467
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: so it's not like the subordinate level that Morgan is on. Well,

468
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: I can't confirm or deny because I've never seen it.

469
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 1: But I would argue that this sounds a lot like

470
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: ZEP with Selina Meyer and Gary. Yes, Gary without a doubt.

471
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: And granted they had that moment in the closet where

472
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 1: they let each other have it, Gary finally stood up

473
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: for himself. I think that was last season or two

474
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: seasons ago, but yeah, absolutely. Gary is devoted to Julia

475
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: Louis Dreyfuss's Selena Meyer, and she just walks all over him.

476
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: But they are both aware that like she would not

477
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: be able to succeed at life without Gary whispering in

478
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: her ear. Gary might be my all time favorite work wife.

479
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: He's just the best, um Because one thing, one thing

480
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: Gary Scott you know that other work spouses have is

481
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: understanding the big picture, you know. I mean, like Gary

482
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: is always anticipating what Selina is going to need, and

483
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: it also helps that he has his bag well. Yeah,

484
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: and and so one of the key aspects to someone

485
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: being a work spouse versus a casual acquaintance is understanding

486
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: that big picture. You know a lot, obviously about your

487
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: work spouse's professional situation, their hopes, their dreams, their failures,

488
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: their successes, um, But you also know a lot about

489
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: their personal life, and so you know, when he or

490
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: she walks in and seems upset or happy, you have

491
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: an idea of what's going on. Because you do you

492
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: see the whole picture. There's also that because you know

493
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: so much about that person's life and their ups and

494
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: downs and everything, there's so much trust that has to

495
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: happen there because you can't just be shooting your mouth

496
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: off about the boss or another coworker that you don't like,

497
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: or you know, if you have a crush on someone

498
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: at work, or if something's going wrong at home. You

499
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: can't just be shooting your mouth off about all that

500
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: stuff to just anybody. And so you know, when you

501
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: combine all this stuff, you get a pretty mega, supportive,

502
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: amazing friend. And not surprisingly, there are plenty of benefits

503
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: associated to having a work spouse. Ron Friedman over at

504
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: The Cut wrote about some research on this in December

505
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: which found that having a work spouse is correlated with

506
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: getting sick less off the suffering fewer accidents, changing jobs

507
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: less often, and having more satisfied customers. Yeah, and and again,

508
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: you because you're committed to this person, and your relationship

509
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: with this person makes you happier, You don't want to

510
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: let them down, so there's more on the line. Your

511
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: laziness or your incompetence or your failure doesn't mean you've

512
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: only let yourself down or your boss down, but it

513
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: also means you're letting your work spouse down. And you

514
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: don't want to do that because you're so committed. And

515
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: Freeman also cited research that should just how important to

516
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: work spouses during those really stressful times at work. People

517
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: who believe that their coworkers will help them during times

518
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: of stress and challenge are more likely to overcome that

519
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: stress and challenge to succeed no matter what's going on

520
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: at work. They're more able to quickly integrate and adapt

521
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: to things going on at work, and they report better

522
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: stress management. So just knowing that you have that person

523
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: who gets your person at work, it reduces your stress

524
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: a little bit because you can just exchange that look

525
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: and be like, I know, girl, I hear you loud

526
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: and clear. And there have been so many meetings you

527
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: and I have been in together, large group meetings where

528
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: we might be sitting across the table from each other

529
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: and but just talking, talking loud and clear, without saying

530
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: a word, talking with those eyeball um and you all

531
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: know Caroline has very expressive eyebrows. So um. But this

532
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: this next one though, is so crucial. I feel like

533
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: if you are managing both, you know, a work spouse

534
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: relationship and a romantic relationship on the side, because one

535
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: of the big benefits in terms of how your work

536
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: spouse can make your personal life better is compartmentalizing your

537
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: the minutia of your job angst and all of the

538
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: projects that you have to do you and all of

539
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: that stress. If you can just compartmentalize it to your

540
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: work spouse, you don't take it all home. Yeah, And

541
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: I mean I I've always taken a lot home anyway.

542
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, your your significant other is

543
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: your significant other, so you're going to talk to that person.

544
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 1: But it doesn't It kind of saves your your ESSO

545
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: from having to sit across the table from you a

546
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: dinner as you're like, no, okay, we'll see Betty Sue

547
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: is a jerk because she does this thing, and then

548
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: you know, Jim over here he does this thing, and

549
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: so but then they can't you know, like that, don't

550
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: don't stress other people out with like the super intimate

551
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: details of how everyone is connected at work like maybe

552
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: hit the high points well. And to that point, I

553
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: am real grateful that my husband did a very kind

554
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: hearted job. He was very gentle with me with this

555
00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: of just alerting me that I talk I talk about

556
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: work a lot. I'll go through phases where yeah, it

557
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: work is life. I mean I shoot videos in my home.

558
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: It is literally there all the time. Um. And he's

559
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: been so helpful and patient and kind with helping me

560
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: kind of separate those two worlds as much as I can,

561
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: because I do want to be cognizant of what's going

562
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: on with his work life. Does he have space to

563
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: talk to me about stuff that's annoying him? And he

564
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: even surprised me once when well he surprised me so

565
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: many times, but one time I was talking uh about

566
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: something at work making me upset, um, and I was like, well,

567
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: I mean, what's going on? What are you mad about?

568
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: You know, don't you have any isn't something terrible? You know?

569
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: Your job? And he was like yeah, but I just don't.

570
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: I just want like to talk about that. He's like,

571
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: I just don't. He was like, I don't want to

572
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: even think about that when I'm home. Boyfriend, dog is

573
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 1: the same, like, how do you do that? Just leave

574
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: it at the office. Well, see, the complicating factor with

575
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: boyfriend dog is that he works at home. Um so

576
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: I'm I kind of witness firsthand when something is going south.

577
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: But he tends to do the same thing of like

578
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: I just don't want to talk about it because it

579
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: just gets my blood pressure up. You know. That's not

580
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: to say he never like blows up, you know, with

581
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: work stress or whatever, but he tends to just be like,

582
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'll just now I'm focused on, you know,

583
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: making dinner, or now I'm focused on watching TV, or

584
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: now I'm focused on hanging out rather than work. I

585
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: can't even and he sees it all over my face

586
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: because I can't. I literally, like getting ready to come

587
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: into work today. I was blowing through the house like

588
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: really fast and like trying to get ready because I

589
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: was doing a million different things, and he just saw

590
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: my face and he's like, this isn't You're just in

591
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: work land already, aren't you. Yeah, I'm sorry, I can't.

592
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: I'll be. I mean, I could, I need to, but

593
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I should have just come and put

594
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: it all on you. That's what I'm here for. Caroline

595
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: that's what a podcast is for. I'm not heavy, I'm

596
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: your sister. But so so you have that uh, that

597
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: personal life benefit for sure. Um, although yeah you should

598
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: also you should be able to talk talk to your

599
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: significant other if something is going wrong at work. I

600
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: shouldn't only have to speak of positive things. Um. But

601
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: then you also have the benefits of future plans and

602
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: future success because, as Adam Grant noted, of startups emerged

603
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: through founders friendships and where do we meet people we

604
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: know we like? And no will work hard at the bar?

605
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: Caroline just kidding? School and work Yeah at TJ Max

606
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: TJ Max. Um, hey girl, you look like you can

607
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: find a deal. Are you a Max any staff? Let's

608
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: start to start up. But you know, we've painted a

609
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: pretty rosy picture of how important a work spouse is.

610
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: But there are a couple downsides if you're not being

611
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: vigilant about your work relationships in general. And one thing

612
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: we pointed out earlier in that if you are work

613
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: spouses with someone who is known for something, maybe for

614
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: being super negative or super hilarious or super amazing, like,

615
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: all of these things are going to reflect on you,

616
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: whether it's positive or negative. So watch out if your

617
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: work spouse is known for being like the office negative Nancy. Yeah,

618
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: and I have no research to back this up and

619
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: don't know whether there is any or not. But well,

620
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: and I wonder Caroline, if that risk is greater for um,

621
00:38:54,200 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: same sex work spouses, because something that I have noticed

622
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: and somewhat experienced in workplaces is that, especially if you

623
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: have a male boss, but female bosses do this too,

624
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: and your work wife is a fellow lady, you're like

625
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: mutual workwives. You gotta work workplace boss and marriage going on.

626
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: That it's almost as if the boss sees you as

627
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: just one person. Yeah, you know, and it doesn't help

628
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: sometimes that I don't know, maybe you both have dark hair,

629
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: you're you're kind of on the pail and the spectrum.

630
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 1: I'm talking a little bit about us, yes, um, because

631
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: it's uh, and it hasn't been a negative for us,

632
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: because I mean, we're you know, charming work wives. Hopefully

633
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: we get spicy sometimes as does everyone. Um, but there

634
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: are there have been those moments where it's like it's

635
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,959
Speaker 1: to become and like we know we're we are still individual,

636
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: individual people. Yeah, um remember that. Yeah, I and I

637
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: don't know either. I did not come across anything that

638
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: indicates whether that's true across the board. But I can

639
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 1: definitely see I can definitely see what you're talking about,

640
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: you know, through personal research. Um, there's also the idea

641
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: of of missing out. You know, when your work besties

642
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: with someone, there's almost that feeling of like, well, why

643
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: do I have to talk to anyone else? You know,

644
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 1: it was definitely like that at my old job with

645
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: my work spouses. Does that make me a work big

646
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: a missed? Because they were both men anyway, you know,

647
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 1: it's like, well, I don't I don't have to mess

648
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: with like the people who really bug you. There was

649
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: less than sentive for me to try to cross that bridge,

650
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: build a bridge, cross a bridge, send up a flare,

651
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: break out of my silo because I had work spouses

652
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: and they were super funny and supportive and my kind

653
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: of people. Yeah. Well, and I would bet that one's

654
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: desire to branch out beyond their spouse silo directly correlates

655
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: to how long they see themselves in that job, true,

656
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: you know, and how much they respect and value the

657
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 1: UM the company itself. Yeah. So if I decide I

658
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: need to launch a career and like infomercials like I'm

659
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: gonna need to go like probably meet an infomercial like

660
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: wife work wife or something, and that makes me sad,

661
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: and make sure it's the makeup person A little chip

662
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: I learned from a little show. We also hinted earlier

663
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: at the complications that can come when your co workers

664
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: are jealous of your relationship, or just the complications that

665
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: can come out of your work spouse being on a

666
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: different level higher or lower. Because is it really an

667
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: egalitarian work spousitude ship thing if someone's a manager and

668
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: someone's a subordinate. Yeah, And speaking of coworkers, will they

669
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: look at that and say, well, of course, Virginia just

670
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 1: got a raise because she's friends with Linda. Linda's the boss,

671
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: by the way. Um, and you know the the massive

672
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: spouse woe it has to do with your real spouse. Yeah.

673
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: I feel like this is the work spouse elephant in

674
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: the room, which is the concern that your work spouse

675
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: overshadows your spouse spouse. Yeah. So there's this guy, Willard F.

676
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: Harley Jr. Who I swear to God is quoted in

677
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 1: like every work spouse article on the internet. But he's

678
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: a psychologist and marriage counselor, and he is majorly concerned

679
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: with the way that you are interacting with your sexual

680
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: orientation matching work spouse. So he wouldn't be as worried

681
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: about like Matt and me like that school, or you

682
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: and me, but he'd be being Matt, Matt being a

683
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: gay dude, you being a straight lady. Uh. He gets

684
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: really worried though, especially when it comes to like straight

685
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: dudes and straight women hanging out, because he has seen

686
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: firsthand as a marriage counselor. The he says, thousands. I

687
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: don't know, but he he said, he's seen thousands of

688
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,919
Speaker 1: people who have come to him after they've had those

689
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: close work relationships evolve into an affair because, as he

690
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: points out, like your work spouse. You call that person

691
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: a work spouse for a reason. It's a relationship that

692
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: meets a lot of needs. Like we've said, it's built

693
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: on trust. You probably share a lot of interests. They

694
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: get you there, your person, you click, You share a

695
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: sense of humor, and you probably complain about the same

696
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: things like well, if you throw like work travel into

697
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: the mix or like work cocktail parties, watch out. Harley's

698
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: guidelines are all about like do not spill your marriage

699
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: problems to your work, your opposite or your sexual orientation

700
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: matching work spouse. Don't be spilling marriage was because that

701
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: makes it sound like the doors open. Don't get drunk together,

702
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: don't travel alone together. Maintain those boundaries, Talk about your

703
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: spouse in a positive way. Make sure that your spouse,

704
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: your real life spouse, is included in things so that

705
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: he or she does not feel excluded, because you don't

706
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: want to make it seem like you have some sort

707
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: of secret, clandestine relationship going on. Well, and in terms

708
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: of not spelling your marriage problems to someone you might

709
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: potentially want to have sex with, because that's basically what

710
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: the whole like UH sexual orientation matching is. UM. I

711
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: think it's is good advice all around, whether you're in

712
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: a work situation or not, because it's like, just be

713
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: careful if you are complaining about like if you hear

714
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: yourself complaining about the person that you are with to

715
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 1: someone who could, by contrast, start to look a little

716
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: shinier in your eyes, if that makes sense. Yeah, is

717
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: anybody out there watching UH Man Seeking Woman. It's on

718
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,959
Speaker 1: f x X. It's on like one of the sub

719
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: f X channels. And there's literally a whole episode about

720
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 1: that where there's this like beautiful charming girl at work

721
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 1: and she is close friends with the lead guy and

722
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: he's just waiting, he's just waiting to slip in there.

723
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: And she starts complaining about her boyfriend, who turns out

724
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: to literally be Jesus uh played by Fred Armison, which

725
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: is ironic. Um. And she complains about him and he's like,

726
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 1: I've got a shot and he goes for it and

727
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: falls on his face. It's the same thing like, just

728
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: don't don't leave the goal unintended. Yeah, yeah, I mean,

729
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: and that's that also requires you as the complainer. I

730
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: think maybe checking yourself, yeah, checking your motivations, what's going on,

731
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: Maybe considering whether there is someone who would be healthier

732
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: to talk to, yeah, or even just like a friend

733
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: who might not have any vested interests at all. Um.

734
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: I like that this episode just became us giving like

735
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: marriage advice. You're welcome, so expect your bill in the

736
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: mail anytime, thanks to stamps dot Com. But alright, so

737
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: we have to get into gender, right. I mean, we're

738
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: sminty and we've kind of danced around the whole gender topic. Uh,

739
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: this is coming from a couple of different sources psychology today,

740
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: the Comparably organization European Business Review. But work friendships tend

741
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: to have a couple different types of rewards. You've got

742
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: the socio emotional rewards, which is basically you're sharing pleasure

743
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: in experiences, and then instrumental rewards, which have to do

744
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: with exchanging favors. And again we're going to talk in

745
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: like pretty stereotypical broadbrush terms, but for the most part,

746
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: women are more likely to enjoy the socio emotional rewards

747
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: of forming work friendships, while men are more likely to

748
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: participate in those instrumental reward friendships. And UH to break

749
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: this down, a little bit of study done by comparably

750
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: asked users in text specifically whether they had a mentor

751
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: and whether they had a best friend at work, and

752
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: women were way more likely at all levels of the

753
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: job to say, yes, I have a mentor, I've formed

754
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: a relationship with someone in that regard, and yes I

755
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: have a best friend at work. And that has a

756
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 1: lot to do with the way that researchers say women

757
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: form friendships with one another. So Lisa Brateman, who's a psychotherapist,

758
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: told Refinery twenty nine that women are more likely to

759
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: share personal details at work, which equates to a whole

760
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 1: load of lady intimacy basically, and that is basically the

761
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: foundation of friendship, right You're sharing stuff about yourself and

762
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: that is definitely a quick way to form a work friendship,

763
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: especially a work best friendship. And because women are more

764
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 1: likely to do this than men are, apparently, that makes

765
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: that stead result makes sense that women are therefore more

766
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: likely to have a bestie at work or a mentor

767
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: that they formed a close relationship with. Well, and we're

768
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: also likelier to seek that kind of emotional support when

769
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 1: we are stressed at work, and to both receive and

770
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: provide more emotional social support than men in times of

771
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: work related unhappiness or distressed And along those same lines,

772
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: women tend to invest more in maintaining those friendships, calling

773
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: friends regularly, meeting more frequently, always b G, chatting the

774
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: gifts back and forth. Yeah, and it's the thing that

775
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: you said about supporting each other being more likely to

776
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: support each other in stressful times at work. That ties

777
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 1: back to the stuff we mentioned earlier about how those

778
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: work spouse ships are based on a huge amount of trust.

779
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: You know and how your work satisfaction and therefore your

780
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: work productivity is based on knowing that you have someone

781
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: behind you who's going to support you. You know that

782
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: you have someone to talk to, someone who's gonna believe

783
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: what you're saying and support what you're doing. But when

784
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: it comes to men at work, again disclaimer, this is

785
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: all very general, but when it comes to men at

786
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: work generally, their friendships can be described as those instrumental

787
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: or transactional friendships. They tend to be organized around those

788
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: shared interests and activities or the exchange of tangible rewards

789
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: and favors, and be action oriented rather than person oriented. Hence,

790
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: everybody's going out to play golf or whatever, or you

791
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: go to the box of the football game, yeah yeah,

792
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 1: or whatever the equivalent is. You guys are all playing

793
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: duck Hunt together. That's just gonna keep it's the duck

794
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: Hunt is the mascot of this episode. I'm fine with that.

795
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: Or sushi just a slab a sushi and one recent

796
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: study that I'm like, uh okay. One recent study said

797
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: that it's possible to male coworkers go out drinking together

798
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: more because it lowers all of their like pent up

799
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: masculine emotions. And I have to raise an eyebrow at

800
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: that because that sounds very like I don't know. I

801
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: went out drinking with co workers quite a bit and

802
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: it was always mixed gender groups. Yeah, just jobs, blowoff team.

803
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: I'm curious what exact inhibitions they're referring to. I think

804
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: they're referring to those like sis you emotional oh, of

805
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: getting beyond the like getting beyond like the let's stats

806
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: to being like you know what, I'm actually pretty vulnerable

807
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: and I enjoy art and joy art, and also I'm

808
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: scared about where my career is going. And I was

809
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 1: really interested too in this this socio economic note about

810
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: male work friendships. Uh. This one study cited was saying

811
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: that working class or blue collar guys at work tend

812
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: to express that transactional nature of French it with material

813
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: goods and services, like hey, I'll exchange wrenches with you.

814
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: They're exchanging wrenches. That's actually symbol of marriage in some societies. Uh.

815
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: While middle class or white collar dudes were more likely

816
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: to share those leisure activities like going golfing or going

817
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 1: to a baseball game. But I want to go back

818
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: to one thing before we UM start to wrap up

819
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 1: in terms of the finding that work, women's work friendships

820
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: tend to center around the socio emotional rewards, just having

821
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: the pleasure and the shared experiences, whereas men's work relationships

822
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 1: UM are more favor based. You kind of go out

823
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: to get ahead. And I think that I've brought this

824
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: exact same scenario up on a previous podcast, UM, but

825
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: clearly it's just stuck in my mind, UM, because it

826
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: reminds me of a tweet that we received a while

827
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: back from a young woman who wants to get ahead

828
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: and socialize, but she can't go out for drinks because

829
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: it's all guys at her office and they never directly

830
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: invite her, and she feels it feels like she can't

831
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: go because she would, you know, like kill the all

832
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: guy vibe. UM. So I wonder if it is so

833
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: much of his and hers, like, oh, we just saw this,

834
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: you know, our socio rewards, or is that the ceiling

835
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: is that like all we can really access. Yeah, I

836
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: mean I've definitely heard of women like taking golf lessons

837
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: so that they can participate in the upper management boys club,

838
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: that is, the golf outings where business is discussed on

839
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,439
Speaker 1: on the green at Uh, that's a really good point. Yeah,

840
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: I mean it could be like, yeah, it could be

841
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: that women genuinely are appreciating these types of relationships and

842
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: men are appreciating those types of relationships. But if you

843
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 1: can't even get an invite to one or the other, right,

844
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: because that kind of after hours networking is where a

845
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 1: lot of promotions come from. And if you can't even

846
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: get in the bar, or if you do get in

847
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: the bar, it's really awkward because you have to play

848
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: the whole like, oh my god, you guys are here. Oh,

849
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: it's so weird. I'm here too. I alone, not because

850
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: I'm sad um, I've just wanted Oh can I join you?

851
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,720
Speaker 1: You know, And your palms are sweating, So the glass

852
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: slips out of your hand and it's just a disaster

853
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: shatter and you cut your leg and you've got to

854
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: go to the hospital and then you miss work and

855
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: then they fire you. See see what networking brings you.

856
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: That's what networking felt like when I was unemployed. It's true.

857
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: But all that to say that I hope that workplaces

858
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 1: become more just cognizant of those unnecessary hang ups that

859
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: we have and really prejudices toward men and women or

860
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: people who match sexual orientations. As Dr Harvey put it,

861
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 1: um of those people forming relationships like going to one

862
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: on one lunch together, going out for drinks one on

863
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: one if they need to, because I think, yeah, like

864
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: in group settings, totally fine, not a big deal. But

865
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: as soon as you have after hours time with your

866
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:41,919
Speaker 1: work husband and suddenly eyebrowser race. Yeah. But hopefully if

867
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,479
Speaker 1: you have formed if if you are a straight lady

868
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 1: and a straight guy, um, I mean hopefully you've you

869
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: followed the guidelines for work spouse ship and you guys

870
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: do have a very open, honest relationship and your significant

871
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: others and your co workers are aware that like, no,

872
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 1: nothing's good went on, and that it doesn't become a

873
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: situation where everything is blown out of proportion because people

874
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: are just gossiping about you, like look at look at

875
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: them spending all of that time together. And if you

876
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: are consistently hanging out outside of work hours with with

877
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 1: that work spouse, when you also have a spouse, that

878
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: might be a good idea to just make sure that

879
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: the spouse so together. Just just ease everyone's minds. Um,

880
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: But how do you even get to that point. You know,

881
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: how how do you do you get down on one?

882
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: Like to get to get a work spouse, do I

883
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: need to go get a ring down one, save up

884
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: two months salary. You get a little twist tie, you

885
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: put it on the pointer finger. Um, that's that's the

886
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 1: work spouse finger. Yeah. Um. Well, researchers basically across the

887
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: board are like, you know, there are certain ways that friendships,

888
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,720
Speaker 1: no matter what the setting, are formed. Here's a quick guide.

889
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: I love it, like become work spouses in forty five

890
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: minutes and less. And that's basically to be vulnerable, because

891
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 1: if you want to form a closed bestie ship or

892
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 1: friendship at work, you're not going to get there by

893
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 1: just talking about the weather. So if you like somebody

894
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: at work and you think you guys could be good friends,

895
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: allies could trust each other and help each other. Um,

896
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: it's swapping those personal stories. It's work spouse ships are

897
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: formed on the basis of knowing so much about each

898
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: other and still supporting each other. It's kind of like

899
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: it all ties in back to uh Ann Friedman's shine

900
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,720
Speaker 1: theory about supporting your powerful besties and not being intimidated

901
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: by them and Robert Epstein, who's at the American Institute

902
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: for Behavioral Research and Technology, says, quote, vulnerability is the

903
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,919
Speaker 1: key to emotional bonding, without which relationships tend to feel

904
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: superficial and meaningless. That doesn't mean you need to be

905
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: talking about all your issues like at work, in front

906
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: of everyone. But when you do have those closer one

907
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: on one relationships, don't be afraid to be vulnerable. Yeah, yeah,

908
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: be vulnerable without over sharing, right, you know, maybe hold

909
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: off on talking about your romantic relationships and also be

910
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: mindful of personal space. Maybe you're hopeful work spouse to

911
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: be you know, doesn't need to know about your menstrual

912
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: cycle yet yet. Yeah, we'll ease that in. And then

913
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: of course avoid gossip at first when you start, when

914
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: you're embarking on a new work marriage, because as we

915
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: discussed about my earlier about my super awful coworker at

916
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: my first job, that negativity just breeds more negativity. And

917
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: if people get the impression that they can't trust you too,

918
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: because all you're gonna do is talk smack about them

919
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: behind their backs. Like, what's the point of having a

920
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: work spouse if everybody else hates you? Yeah? Yeah, you

921
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: need to just find another job, I think at that point. Yeah,

922
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: if all you can do is literally say horrible things

923
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: about each other or other people at work, that probably

924
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: just means you're unhappy in your job, go do something else. Yeah, well,

925
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: and that does get us to one thing that we

926
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: haven't directly addressed, which is the work spouse divorce, you know,

927
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: because yeah, you can. Just like friendships can get toxic

928
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: and you gotta let them go, similar thing can happen,

929
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: especially in the workplace, because I mean, you have you've

930
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: got a lot more on the line. So I'm curious

931
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: to hear from listeners who have work spouses and if

932
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,439
Speaker 1: anyone is willing to share with us going through kind

933
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: of the work spouse divorce. You know, did you finally

934
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: have to call it or was it like a work

935
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 1: spouse slow fade and if you get a new job

936
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: and the friendship didn't continue. All these relationships are so

937
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: like it seems so sterile, you know, from the outside,

938
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: but um, when you really start paying attention to them,

939
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: I'm full of matching feminist mugs. They are they are,

940
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: and lots of games of duck hunt and platters of

941
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: sushi when they're at their best, you know, UM, so

942
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: please share all your work wife, work, husband, work spouse

943
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: do you and also do you have a preferred UH

944
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: title for that? Do you do not call your person

945
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: your your work spouse? UM? Let us know all the dats.

946
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com is our

947
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: email address. You can also tweet us at mom Stuff

948
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: podcast or messages on Facebook. And we've got a couple

949
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: of messages to share with you right now. Well, I've

950
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: got a message here from a drill from our episode

951
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: where we talked to Anne Marie Slaughter about caregiving. She says,

952
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: this is an extremely important topic and I'm so glad

953
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: that it's finally being brought to the forefront. Up until recently,

954
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: I never fully appreciated how important having quality, free childcare

955
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: has been to my own success. I got pregnant my

956
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: sophomore year of college. For the first year of my

957
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: son's life, it was a struggle trying to figure out

958
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 1: how to work, go to school, and pay for daycare.

959
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: I remember having to choose between staying home with a

960
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: sick one year old and going to work. I also

961
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: remember being fired because of choosing to stay home with

962
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: my sick one year old. But my story does have

963
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: a happy ending. When my son was too I took

964
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: a job working at a daycare. The pace sucked, but

965
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: he could go to daycare for free, and that was

966
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: a tremendous help. I was able to save my money

967
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: and spend it on important things like rent and food.

968
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: Having childcare also allowed me to finish my undergraduate degree,

969
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: and it also helped me to go on to complete

970
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: my masters as well. I owe a lot of my

971
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: success to having free childcare. If it were not for that,

972
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: I do not know where my son and I would be.

973
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 1: No one should ever have to choose between something basically

974
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 1: feeding your family or affording their care, Yet sadly this happens.

975
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: Every day care is a basic human right that everyone

976
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,439
Speaker 1: should have access to, and I agree. Here here thanks

977
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: for your letter. Well, I have a letter here from

978
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: Amelia who right. First, I love your work and fierce feminism.

979
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: I've learned quite a few new things from your podcast

980
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: and listening is always a treat. Well, thank you, Amelia. Secondly,

981
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 1: the recent episode with Anne Marie Slaughter really hit home

982
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: for me. I'm thirty two and stuck between having a

983
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: baby and going to grad school. I have so many

984
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: questions and self doubts about any avenue I pursue. Do

985
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: I had to grad school knowing I'll be thirty six

986
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 1: when I have my first baby. Do I put off

987
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: grad school so I can utilize my young ish eggs,

988
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: or do I strap on my cape and do both

989
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: at the same time. All my choices are daunting, and

990
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: most professional women I've asked don't have any answers either.

991
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: I have asked several of my professors who have small

992
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: children what they suggest, and I've heard everything from just

993
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: have a baby now you're not getting any younger too,

994
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: there's really no good time to have kids. The worst

995
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: and most memorable piece of advice I got was, well,

996
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: at least your fiance has done with his degree. What

997
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: the heck is it girl supposed to say to that? So,

998
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: while your interview with miss Slaughter did not necessarily assuage

999
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: any of my worries, I am relieved to know that

1000
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: there are strong women willing to have these conversations and

1001
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: fight for a level of equality which is long overdue.

1002
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: While things may not change over night, I'm hopeful that

1003
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 1: our generation may be the last to know this inequality.

1004
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: Anne Marie Slaughter is a badass, and so are you

1005
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 1: please keep up the great work. Well, you know what, Amelia,

1006
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: you're a bad us as well. And those are such

1007
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: daunting questions that I have a feeling. Uh, so many

1008
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 1: listeners can relate to. As a woman in my thirties,

1009
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: I think I think similar things as well. Um, honestly,

1010
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: it's just just weird having ovaries sometimes just know when

1011
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: they're sitting in there. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Um, but yeah,

1012
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: I also am am really excited that a Marie Slaughter, Hi,

1013
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 1: gen Poo and other amazing people are working for that

1014
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 1: equality that we all need. So with that, keep sending

1015
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 1: your letters. Mom. Stuff at how stuff works dot com

1016
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: is our email address and for links to all of

1017
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,

1018
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: and podcasts with our sources so you can learn more

1019
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: about work wives. Head on over to stuff Mom Never

1020
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: Told You dot com for more on this and thousands

1021
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com