Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of All the Smoke Jack.
Speaker 1: What's going on? Nothing? Just feeling old man, Just feeling
Speaker 1: old from he's got down basketball, working out and ship
Speaker 1: and it's killing me right now, killing me. Man. Let's
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Uh Man, someone I grew up
Speaker 1: watching a big fan of defining all the odds to
Speaker 1: be able to play fourteen years uh in the NBA
Speaker 1: and really make it possible for people like Nate Robinson
Speaker 1: and uh I t and some of the smaller players
Speaker 1: to kind of find their lane in the big band's game. Man.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Muggsy Bogues, what's our fellas? Appreciate
Speaker 1: how's life going? We know you got your new book,
Speaker 1: Muggs in My Life from the Kid in the Projects
Speaker 1: to the Gulfather's small Ball. How's life going for you?
Speaker 1: Right now? It's going well. Man. I cannot complain, not
Speaker 1: one bit. You know, people won't listen to it anyway,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm doing well man. Things are going great. Um.
Speaker 1: This is my second memoir that I'm putting out. My
Speaker 1: very first one was in nineteen four. It was called
Speaker 1: the End of the the Land of Jihnts and that was
Speaker 1: kind of you know, when they came to me to
Speaker 1: but they presented to me, and when I decided to
Speaker 1: do that book, Um, it was mainly when my father
Speaker 1: had just passed away and my best friend, one of
Speaker 1: my best friend, Reggie Lewis, had passed away a week
Speaker 1: right afterwards. So um, and it was kind of mainly
Speaker 1: talking about me making the NBA and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: But this one has a lot more substance. Um, it's
Speaker 1: a lot more information in terms of, you know, some
Speaker 1: of the players that I had impacted in the league,
Speaker 1: guys like the longso Marti, Larry Johnson, I got Stephen
Speaker 1: or doing my forwarding the impact that I had on
Speaker 1: him growing up. It's more of a passionate book as well. Um,
Speaker 1: Relationships and men. My wife, you know, which is kind
Speaker 1: of unheard of. We got divorce and we was divorced
Speaker 1: for ten years and then all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 1: we found ourselves back to one another that we remarried
Speaker 1: in which was unheard of. So it's about you know,
Speaker 1: relationships is about getting back to the community as well
Speaker 1: as some of the impact that I had on some
Speaker 1: of the players that I played with. I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to to to read and also tell us about your
Speaker 1: Doctor that was released on the NBA TV. Oh, they
Speaker 1: always believe that that was special. Man. I was really
Speaker 1: appreciate the NBA uh taking that time and going behind
Speaker 1: the scenes and and giving some attention to you know,
Speaker 1: my career. Um of course, you know, being the smallest
Speaker 1: to ever do it, and people not really believing you know,
Speaker 1: a guy my side was capable doing it. But you know,
Speaker 1: and for me, you know, it was just the game
Speaker 1: and um and I never looked at anything different. You know,
Speaker 1: people don't realize, you know, I was a starter most
Speaker 1: of my career. It wasn't you know. I came off
Speaker 1: the bench when I landed part of my career, especially
Speaker 1: when I got hurt. And but I had, you know,
Speaker 1: opportunity to put my stamp on this, on this game,
Speaker 1: and and and give some inspiration to a lot of
Speaker 1: guys who now playing the game who didn't believe the
Speaker 1: day possibly you know, could play at that level. And
Speaker 1: I'm just grateful that we was able to break down
Speaker 1: the barriers, not only just myself, to Michael Adams, to
Speaker 1: Spud Webs and Charlie Chris as well. The money tell
Speaker 1: those guys, so you know, you gotta get probs talk
Speaker 1: to us about your upbringing. We've had a few Baltimore
Speaker 1: guys on the show that the common theme is it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's tough out there, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Your brother was addicted to drugs, pops uh
Speaker 1: served some time. What was your childhood in in in
Speaker 1: teenage years like in Baltimore. Well, it was challenging. You know,
Speaker 1: there was challenging growing up in the city of Baltimore.
Speaker 1: You know, at the age of five, I got shot
Speaker 1: you no man at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Speaker 1: And you know, that's the type of environment that we
Speaker 1: we grew up and but for us, you know, as kids,
Speaker 1: you don't know any differences like normal It's like normalcy
Speaker 1: in terms of trying to just adjust to the environment
Speaker 1: and to the atmosphere that you you know, you raised
Speaker 1: them um playing you know, trying to pursue that game
Speaker 1: as well as trying to grow up. You know again,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to look over your shoulders quite
Speaker 1: a bit. But at the same time, you know, we
Speaker 1: had a dream that was floating around in my head myself,
Speaker 1: Reggie Wams, you know, Reggid Whims, and I was like Mutton,
Speaker 1: Jeff uh He and I grew up together in the
Speaker 1: inter steady of Baltimore, and being here and I was
Speaker 1: able to push one another and keep each other on
Speaker 1: the on the on the same path, motivate one another
Speaker 1: and take that journey and understand that we had an
Speaker 1: opportunity to not only do something for ourselves, but do
Speaker 1: something for our families and um, you know, so we
Speaker 1: had to try to, you know, keep out nose cleaned,
Speaker 1: if you will, make sure that we understood how the
Speaker 1: importance of what the education was back then, because growing up,
Speaker 1: you know, big terminology that was floating around was dump jocks,
Speaker 1: dumb jocks and having players that came before us and
Speaker 1: you know, the guys like the skit Wise, the Ernie Grahams,
Speaker 1: Dwayne Wood and Kevin Bush, those guys befause having the
Speaker 1: opportunity to witness those guys play the game and taking
Speaker 1: it as far as they could, but not even to
Speaker 1: ticket to the highest level, which was the NBA. It
Speaker 1: just gave us, you know, that that that inspiration that
Speaker 1: we can you know, change the directory not only for
Speaker 1: our our families, but for our community as well. In
Speaker 1: terms of the brand of basketball we have plating out.
Speaker 1: I want to back put the rook kid, because you
Speaker 1: kind of just slid over like it was nothing. You
Speaker 1: said you got shot at five, and you talked to
Speaker 1: us about that. Well, yeah, you know, as I said,
Speaker 1: the neighborhood where we grew up, I mean, growing up
Speaker 1: in the inter city. You grew up a lot quicker
Speaker 1: than probably in some of the suburbs, and you're exposed
Speaker 1: to things that you didn't realize as a kid that
Speaker 1: you would be witnesses at that early age. And outside
Speaker 1: of our apartment building a fight had broken out and
Speaker 1: coursed me inquisitive mine wanted to see what was going on.
Speaker 1: I snuck out the house and one of the kids
Speaker 1: took a rock and broke one of the store owners windows,
Speaker 1: and the store that came out went straight to his
Speaker 1: shed and grabbed his double burrow shotgun and just start
Speaker 1: shooting in the neighborhood. And fortunate enough for myself, the
Speaker 1: bullet went over my head, but then all the buckshots
Speaker 1: went through my arms and then my legs, which I
Speaker 1: still carry one in my arm to keep me up
Speaker 1: and remind us where I've coming from. Um, And you know,
Speaker 1: those are the things that for me I think I
Speaker 1: look at it to to two with two folds because
Speaker 1: at that same time, early on, you know, I used
Speaker 1: to go try to put through the game of basketball,
Speaker 1: and a lot of kids used to make fun of me,
Speaker 1: you know, if the butt of everybody jokes because of
Speaker 1: my height and the ball was so big and I
Speaker 1: didn't know how to control it. But after that incident,
Speaker 1: in terms of being shot, going through that dramatic experience,
Speaker 1: I think it shines it changed my mindset because, you know,
Speaker 1: once again when I went back on that basketball court
Speaker 1: and heard the kids, you know, hurling all the little
Speaker 1: small jokes they could possibly come out of their mouth
Speaker 1: and didn't have the same impact that it once did.
Speaker 1: And probably I'm quite sure that the dramatic experience that
Speaker 1: I just alluded to what I went through by being shot,
Speaker 1: you know, the least of my words was their words.
Speaker 1: You know. I was just still frustrated that I didn't
Speaker 1: know how to play the game of basketball at the time,
Speaker 1: and that I didn't have anything to come back them
Speaker 1: with in terms of being able to compete and shut
Speaker 1: them down in that regard, when did you feel like
Speaker 1: you kind of got a grasp of the game and
Speaker 1: really start to fall in love with the game of basketball.
Speaker 1: Well at the age of seven, that's when I met
Speaker 1: my blessing, Mr Leon Howard. I think me and REDG.
Speaker 1: Maggie when we both met him at the same time,
Speaker 1: because we was at our recreation center and while we
Speaker 1: was down there playing with this ball. Here it is.
Speaker 1: I just met REDG that day and this little young
Speaker 1: man come walking up in approaches. He's about five seven. Uh.
Speaker 1: He was a former collegiate basketball player. He happened to
Speaker 1: be the director of our recreations and at the time,
Speaker 1: and he saw us playing with the ball and he
Speaker 1: asked us where we're interested in learning the game of basketball?
Speaker 1: A little that we knew we was meeting out blessing
Speaker 1: the guy that had all the information that we possibly
Speaker 1: that we needed to change our whole perspective of life.
Speaker 1: And with Mr Howell did for us, not only did
Speaker 1: he drilled us shopping up our skills and still the
Speaker 1: knowledge in terms of the game of basketball, but he
Speaker 1: gave kids vision that we didn't think that existed growing
Speaker 1: up in that inner city. And by him taking that
Speaker 1: you know, mentorship and that role in terms of kiding
Speaker 1: for those individuals in the neighborhood. It changed so many
Speaker 1: of kids lives and I'm so thankful that we had
Speaker 1: a guy of his caliber being able to change us
Speaker 1: and give us a means of what life could be.
Speaker 1: You know where the nickname mugs he comes from come
Speaker 1: from playing the game of basketball at the age of
Speaker 1: seven years. Oh, I'm out there still on the ball.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you before, at the beginning, guys didn't
Speaker 1: want to pick me because of my size and everything
Speaker 1: and so forth, and because you know, they thought that
Speaker 1: they was getting a kid that couldn't compete with all
Speaker 1: the other kids. And um and one giving morning, I
Speaker 1: mean one one day, one of the kids couldn't play
Speaker 1: because they saw me down their plan on the on
Speaker 1: these milk crates. I you know, because when I didn't
Speaker 1: get picked, I got a little creative. I just cut
Speaker 1: to cut the bottom out of milk crates and I
Speaker 1: tied it on each end of defense. And I gather
Speaker 1: a couple of little kids around who wasn't playing, and
Speaker 1: we had something with great milk Creek basketball that I
Speaker 1: can never imagine. And then from that, playing milk Creek basketball,
Speaker 1: one of the kids on the basketball could on a
Speaker 1: big goal. I should say he had to leave. So
Speaker 1: one of the kids holler, hey, you little shrimp, you
Speaker 1: want to play. Of course, this was my moment, my opportunity,
Speaker 1: because I already felt like I had the skill set
Speaker 1: now because with Mr Howe had instilled in me. And
Speaker 1: then once I played against my first opponent, of course
Speaker 1: he dribbled the ball. I stole it from it right away,
Speaker 1: he laid it up, and then he tried to do
Speaker 1: it the second time. I stole it from him again,
Speaker 1: gave it to my teammate and he scored. And the
Speaker 1: third time he tried to get a little more aggressive
Speaker 1: because he was much bigger than myself, and of course
Speaker 1: I gave him a fake one way and went around
Speaker 1: the other, stole it from him again and laid it up.
Speaker 1: And then of course this guy got holly man hold
Speaker 1: on this through the kid out. He had mugging you, man,
Speaker 1: mugging you all over the place. And it was a
Speaker 1: show we used to come on every Saturday called the
Speaker 1: Botary Boys, and one of the characters he was a
Speaker 1: small guy. His name was Buggy, and they kind of
Speaker 1: tied my aggressively for playing basketball. And I've been Muggy
Speaker 1: ever since. I was seven years old. You know, no one,
Speaker 1: no my mom and named me Tyrone Curtis. Your high
Speaker 1: school career arguably one of the greatest high school teams
Speaker 1: of all time at Dunbar had yourself, Reggie Williams, David
Speaker 1: Wingate in the late great Reggie low Us, your junior
Speaker 1: and senior year fifty nine and oh talk to us
Speaker 1: about that team, in the relationships you developed and just
Speaker 1: how fun it was. Uh played high school with all
Speaker 1: those guys that ended up being in the NBA long
Speaker 1: with yourself. Oh man, that was special time back then.
Speaker 1: I mean here it is. It's well before these guys
Speaker 1: now you do. You know, you do a lot of
Speaker 1: recruiting where they got these prep schools, they got these
Speaker 1: guys trying to build this dominant program. We all just
Speaker 1: looked in the neighborhood, you know, the discrete the school
Speaker 1: with just right across the street. For myself and my mom,
Speaker 1: everybody went to dumb By everybody in my family. Um,
Speaker 1: same with Redge and wing Gate and all those guys. Um.
Speaker 1: And when we all got there, I mean we knew
Speaker 1: that we were we had something special because we compete
Speaker 1: against one another during the summer, you know, we lived
Speaker 1: in Lawfare projects wing Gating them lived up to see Sekirk.
Speaker 1: So we used to play number all the time and
Speaker 1: compete against them, you know, and I always I always
Speaker 1: get on them. How we used to get the better
Speaker 1: them all the time when we played against them. But
Speaker 1: when we had the opportunity to play with each other,
Speaker 1: I mean that was really special. People don't understand that
Speaker 1: we had eleven guys. Actually it's just a fifteen of
Speaker 1: those players all got Division one scholarship, all got Division
Speaker 1: one scholarships. And Reggie William I mean Reggie Loris, the
Speaker 1: late Reggie Loss I should say Rager was out six man.
Speaker 1: He didn't even start. He came off the bench. And uh,
Speaker 1: but you know it was a special time. It was
Speaker 1: all credit to Coach Wade. You know, Coach Wade was
Speaker 1: the ultimate leader. You know, he was the one that
Speaker 1: understood who we were. He was empathetic, He knew what
Speaker 1: made his tick, he knew what where we came from.
Speaker 1: He knew how much talent we have. So we made
Speaker 1: each and everybody accountable and but more and and also
Speaker 1: he gave us vision. You know, we had clarity. We
Speaker 1: understood what the mission was at had but more importantly gratitude.
Speaker 1: We was grateful, you know, we was really grateful to
Speaker 1: be with one another. But we also understood the importance
Speaker 1: of how to win and how to lose. And fortunate
Speaker 1: enough for us with enough experienced the losing side, you know,
Speaker 1: because he was a former professional football player who really
Speaker 1: was a disciplinary and he really stressed how to conduct
Speaker 1: yourself one and office was important. Talked to us a
Speaker 1: little bit because I don't think he has talked about
Speaker 1: enough the late great Reggie Lewis who lost his life.
Speaker 1: Uh why playing for the Boston Celtics. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: you touched on growing up with him and get a
Speaker 1: chance to play with him. But what kind of person
Speaker 1: was he? Off the court? Rag was unbelievable. Him and
Speaker 1: Reggie Williams, they were too mirrors. They were identical. Both
Speaker 1: were quiet, didn't talk much. There was assassin when they
Speaker 1: got on the floor. Their game was kind of similar
Speaker 1: to one another. The only thing with Red was that,
Speaker 1: you know, Rad was more of a slasher. And when
Speaker 1: he became the first All Star amongst all of us,
Speaker 1: and he took Boston to Heights where nobody thought they
Speaker 1: would go. After Lyve Bird every time redg became that guy,
Speaker 1: and who knew would have happened if Lenny Bos been
Speaker 1: that him. I mean, that's how special Redd was in
Speaker 1: terms of his ability to gavinate all the guys around him.
Speaker 1: I mean rag, I mean he gave m J troubles.
Speaker 1: That's how difficult gradual was his length. Um, it was
Speaker 1: hard for him him in ters because he played both
Speaker 1: ends of the floor. People didn't understand that Ras played
Speaker 1: both ends of the floor. He had the total package
Speaker 1: mid range, he could shoot the three ball, and you
Speaker 1: never sped him up in terms of wanting to play
Speaker 1: him at a certain speed. He played his speed every
Speaker 1: time that he stepped up. Obviously, mental health is something
Speaker 1: that's kind of new to our community um as black folks,
Speaker 1: and new to sports overall. But how hard was it
Speaker 1: for you when you heard the news that your brother
Speaker 1: had passed during the game. Well, you know, people don't
Speaker 1: understand that he collapsed while we was playing in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: and while we was playing, you know, we just thought
Speaker 1: that he tripped over Johnny knew his foot and then
Speaker 1: came to find out it was a little more severe
Speaker 1: than that. And even when he was growing up, we
Speaker 1: didn't have no indication that Rudge Ranch had any type
Speaker 1: of heart heart problems. I mean, that was always kept
Speaker 1: within the family. I'm as summing um. We found out
Speaker 1: like everybody else, when the news came out when he
Speaker 1: couldn't finish the series when we played against them in Boston,
Speaker 1: and then here it is. I just left. I just
Speaker 1: lost my father that week, and then a week and
Speaker 1: we just lost to the New York Nicks in the
Speaker 1: playoffs and come to find out Ranch had just passed away.
Speaker 1: And I was in Phoenix, Arizona when I got the news,
Speaker 1: and I had spoken to him probably a week before
Speaker 1: that because he was now I don't see it was clear,
Speaker 1: but he was feeling better in the you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't know he had the permission to work out, to
Speaker 1: start his you know, conditioning, but that's what he was doing.
Speaker 1: And it was devastating, you know, its devastate. It was
Speaker 1: too young, twenty seven years old. I mean, even though
Speaker 1: we grew up with life expectancy, we didn't think it
Speaker 1: was past twenty. But you know, once we was able
Speaker 1: to overcome that and we was going to prosperous things
Speaker 1: and to have him at the pinnacle of his career,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was hotbreak condolences man for the loss
Speaker 1: of your father and your brother Baltimore and even extending
Speaker 1: to the d n V region. Why has there been
Speaker 1: so much talent to come out of those areas? You think, Well,
Speaker 1: it's there's a lot of kids who came from there
Speaker 1: that they look up to, and it's became, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say as the mecca of the game of basketball,
Speaker 1: but it's a hub. It's definitely hub. And it's anytime
Speaker 1: you got uh kids Now these days, you know, as
Speaker 1: the tension that the NBA has been receiving, I mean
Speaker 1: it's overwhelming, and they see guys like themselves out of
Speaker 1: that neighborhoods out there on that on that dance floor,
Speaker 1: and that's something that they believe that they want as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, now we've got this thing is we're as
Speaker 1: global where we got so many kids that's dreaming, not
Speaker 1: just the people does in the United States. So the
Speaker 1: game has broughtened, the game has grew and having those
Speaker 1: guys back home and that's why I always tell them
Speaker 1: guards as a dimond doesn't. So you know, we always
Speaker 1: got to conduct ourselves the best way on and off
Speaker 1: the court because we never know who's watching. Body language
Speaker 1: is a key as well as your skill set, and
Speaker 1: we got to put ourselves and separate ourselves in order
Speaker 1: to get the detention that we definitely deserve. And these
Speaker 1: guys understand that. We got now programs that giving these
Speaker 1: guys a platform to be able to operate from. You
Speaker 1: got Durant, the Mellows, you know, of course in other
Speaker 1: states with CP and all these other guys. But now
Speaker 1: we have those platforms where these guys can go to
Speaker 1: these organizations, these establishments to work on their skill set.
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't have that growing up. We just
Speaker 1: had we just had recreation centers. You know, we didn't
Speaker 1: have trainers, guys that trained us and skilled. I had
Speaker 1: a recreation director who happened to knew the game of
Speaker 1: basketball who just gave us that information, you know, which
Speaker 1: is still they different today, and that's the way the
Speaker 1: world is now. So you chose to go to wait
Speaker 1: for us. Whether what other schools were recruiting you knowing
Speaker 1: that she was a five three guard. Oh well, you know,
Speaker 1: I had quite a few schools recruitment. Virginia had Seaton Hall.
Speaker 1: It really came down to wait for us and seating Hall.
Speaker 1: You gotta keep in mind, we was the number one
Speaker 1: team in the country, so we had slew of coaches
Speaker 1: coming in trying to pursue us in terms of trying
Speaker 1: to get us to go to their university. But for me,
Speaker 1: you know, I always used and people don't understand our practice.
Speaker 1: A lot of the college coaches, they came to our
Speaker 1: practice more so that they came to our games. People
Speaker 1: don't understand that they came to our practice more than
Speaker 1: they came to our games. And my motto was they
Speaker 1: whoever they came to watch, I want to make sure
Speaker 1: they talked about me. Going out and practice was something
Speaker 1: that was even tougher than the games. People don't realize
Speaker 1: we might have had the second best team in the
Speaker 1: country on the bench. I mean, that's how telling you
Speaker 1: how guys were. I mean, people don't hear about him today,
Speaker 1: but back then, these guys had talent, and they were skillful,
Speaker 1: and they understood the game, and you know, we had
Speaker 1: that type of chemistry that bond with one another where
Speaker 1: you know, I had the understanding that if these coaches
Speaker 1: come in here the Georgetown the current line is I
Speaker 1: want to make sure they talked about me. Even though
Speaker 1: they didn't pursue me as hard as they did, especially Georgetown,
Speaker 1: which coach Thomas say that he regretted that he didn't
Speaker 1: pursue me as hard as he once did. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't have any rests because it was all up
Speaker 1: to me in terms of what I felt comfortable for
Speaker 1: me and what I felt was best for me and
Speaker 1: my family. And this was the very first time that
Speaker 1: me and Reggie Williams had to decide to go to
Speaker 1: separate ways. Because keep in mind, we've been playing with
Speaker 1: each other since we were seven years old. From elementary
Speaker 1: school junior high school we didn't have we didn't have
Speaker 1: middle school back then, junior high school, and then to
Speaker 1: high school. You know, in the summertime we played in
Speaker 1: Now Recreations Summer League teams. Um, we traveled all the time,
Speaker 1: the five Stars. So he and I was connected with
Speaker 1: each other from seven all way up till we wasa
Speaker 1: eighteen years old. And then of course the decision for
Speaker 1: me to go to Wake for US was based on
Speaker 1: a SEC was the toughest conference back then. My mom,
Speaker 1: you know, she couldn't afford to travel. My dad was
Speaker 1: in prison, so they can just turn on the TV
Speaker 1: every Saturday and watch their little fellow play. So that
Speaker 1: came down to me in terms of the best decision
Speaker 1: and seat hall. P J. Collissimo was a little disappointed.
Speaker 1: I decided to go up there with him because they
Speaker 1: was really coming at me really hard. They had the
Speaker 1: kid Audrey McLeod and those guys. But I felt weight
Speaker 1: academically as well as uh the basketball rams, I think
Speaker 1: that was the best spot for what's some of your
Speaker 1: best memories? You overlapped You talked about the a c C.
Speaker 1: You overlapped m J. H Lynn Bias in the a
Speaker 1: c C. What was that like? Oh, that was awesome.
Speaker 1: I mean again, I felt that was the best conference
Speaker 1: at the time in terms of the competition. I mean
Speaker 1: we was going to every night. She had to face
Speaker 1: the Mark Price one night, Kenny Smith, the next night,
Speaker 1: a Spud Waves and Nate McMillan another night Vince Hamilton
Speaker 1: and next night and then you go down and face
Speaker 1: Johnny Darkers and you got uh, Tommy Amic and Keith Kalen.
Speaker 1: I mean, the a CEC was loaded, and then that's
Speaker 1: only the point guards, the two guards you got m J.
Speaker 1: And then you're all of a sudden you got Lynn
Speaker 1: Bays and people don't realize Adrian Branch and those guys.
Speaker 1: I mean we had Braddaughty. I mean, you keep going
Speaker 1: down the list. The a CEC was was tough, and
Speaker 1: that's one of the reason why I felt that, Um,
Speaker 1: I wanted to play there because for me, the recognition
Speaker 1: is the key. And I felt like I played against
Speaker 1: I played on one of the best hostel teams that
Speaker 1: people say that has never been a symbol UM. And
Speaker 1: I felt comfortable with my skill set and what I
Speaker 1: was capable of down I just wanted the opportunity and
Speaker 1: I knew getting that national attention in the a c
Speaker 1: C will allow me to have that s you was
Speaker 1: able to win the goal in the Fever Championships with
Speaker 1: David Robson, Steve Criss some other guys. How was that experience?
Speaker 1: It was unbelieable experience. You know, we was the last
Speaker 1: collegiate team to win the gold medal before they send
Speaker 1: the Dream team over there in ninety two because David
Speaker 1: never lost in eight and that year in Olympics, it
Speaker 1: was unbelievable. I mean back then, you know, you guys
Speaker 1: gotta I don't know, y'all, just a little too young.
Speaker 1: It was you know, it was a tervism going on
Speaker 1: back then. You know, it was outside of that hotel
Speaker 1: and with machine guns. Um protected us. And I remember,
Speaker 1: man Kenny. We was eight uh one game in Spain
Speaker 1: and because of our activity that we decided to do
Speaker 1: the night before and we had to run to the
Speaker 1: to the to the gym and we were start us
Speaker 1: back there. And when we ran to the gym, of
Speaker 1: course Kate Ludoson was out coach at the time, and
Speaker 1: you know he decided we was playing this he was
Speaker 1: playing the Germany Tame Germany team and they looked, I
Speaker 1: mean so all the shape he's got a look like
Speaker 1: him about forty years old here this week early in
Speaker 1: the early nineteen and eighteen years old and these guys
Speaker 1: and looked like they're in the forties and um, but
Speaker 1: they had us and Kenny, like I said, Kenny and
Speaker 1: always start us. But we was late to that game,
Speaker 1: so he told us to move on the bench. We
Speaker 1: sit on the end of the bench. By halftime they
Speaker 1: had us. And you know how in those type of
Speaker 1: settings it's all about qualifications and you can't these years
Speaker 1: into certain teams. So of course he put us back
Speaker 1: in the game. The second half we come back. We
Speaker 1: all probably by about nine and ten or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: He took it right back out and put put timmy
Speaker 1: am couldn't come back in the game. I guess he
Speaker 1: was trying to make a poet. But that was a
Speaker 1: great experience man, playing against the USSR and the Russians
Speaker 1: Uh Sa Bonus, the truth Sa Bonus back then, um
Speaker 1: and playing against the Drives and Patrick Vicks of the world,
Speaker 1: the late Drives and pastor bit. I mean, that was
Speaker 1: a great experience man, because they was considered professional players.
Speaker 1: Don't that time we were just collegiate players and being
Speaker 1: able to accomplish their goal to win the gold medal
Speaker 1: and stand on that podium, to hold that cut put
Speaker 1: the gold medal around your net. Us a little bit
Speaker 1: about how good first Sa Bonus was because we got
Speaker 1: you know that he got to the league at a
Speaker 1: later age and they said he was incredible at a
Speaker 1: young age. And then we got to see how special
Speaker 1: Drajan Petrovitch was. So talk to us about both those
Speaker 1: players at that time when you got the chance to
Speaker 1: play against something, how good they were. Well, of course,
Speaker 1: the bonnet was like MJ Over in the States. I
Speaker 1: mean he was over he was that type of talent
Speaker 1: as well as that had that type of recognition for
Speaker 1: a big guy to have that type of skill set,
Speaker 1: to be able to pass, to be able to shoot it,
Speaker 1: to be able to play with your back towards the
Speaker 1: basket as well as face the basket, that was something
Speaker 1: that we haven't seen over and even in the States.
Speaker 1: So he really, you know, drew a lot of tension
Speaker 1: in that regards and being able to have that type
Speaker 1: of you know, ability to now translated into the m
Speaker 1: day was unbelievable and the tribes and Pastrick it's I mean,
Speaker 1: people don't understand how great Patrick was. I mean I
Speaker 1: had the fortunate enough to be able to play him
Speaker 1: over there when he was playing with Yugoslavia and I
Speaker 1: had to fortunate enough to shut him down. And he
Speaker 1: was asking about thirty seven forty points before we before
Speaker 1: we played them. The night before we played the Russian
Speaker 1: team and that was a very big game. Kenny Smith
Speaker 1: was supposed to have that assignment that night. But I
Speaker 1: went over to Kenny and told Kenny as we was
Speaker 1: getting on the floor, let me start off on drive.
Speaker 1: And if he had, you know, he started to have
Speaker 1: his little way or something, then you can get on him.
Speaker 1: Of course, Kenny never had Ourtune get that to him,
Speaker 1: because Patrick did. He only have about twelve points that
Speaker 1: game average and at the averaging round thirty during that tournament,
Speaker 1: and that was allowed us to you know, to prevail
Speaker 1: through that game. But those guys Man him and another
Speaker 1: guy over there, o Scott Smith. You know he was
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. O Scott was another talented
Speaker 1: player during that time, during that era. You know, those
Speaker 1: three guys really stood out some bowling stretch Patrivick as
Speaker 1: well as Oscar Smith. Remember hearing something about him, uh,
Speaker 1: twelfth overall pick in the nineteen seven draft to the Bullets.
Speaker 1: What was your draft process like in kind of the
Speaker 1: culmination of you know, starting at seven years old and
Speaker 1: and and everything kind of year dream teams finally materializing, uh,
Speaker 1: to allow you to be drafted uh in the NBA. Well,
Speaker 1: of course that was very special, man. I mean here
Speaker 1: it is. You wanted to do it, just like everybody else,
Speaker 1: Just like all the big guys have done it. You know,
Speaker 1: none of us small guys at that time didn't have
Speaker 1: that opportunity. My boy Spud didn't get that opportunity. Michael
Speaker 1: Adams and those guys, you know, they didn't never experience that.
Speaker 1: And for me to be able to experience that and
Speaker 1: be able to go through that process and put myself
Speaker 1: in that situation, you know, and we was coming up
Speaker 1: at the time, I was already projected to go late first,
Speaker 1: early second, as well as Scottie Pippott and myself. And
Speaker 1: then after that Chicago Port Smith at the Chicago camps. Yeah,
Speaker 1: after those two camps, man, that's where the NBA, you know,
Speaker 1: the coaches as well as the GM they get opportunity
Speaker 1: to go see you as opposed to the Scots and
Speaker 1: here and I was able to you know, showcase self
Speaker 1: skills and and and raised our stock to where I
Speaker 1: became the twelve player. He became the fifth player chosen.
Speaker 1: So it was a surreal moment, man, the way that
Speaker 1: the world was lifted off my shows that night. Being
Speaker 1: able to go up shape the commission David Strnhand and
Speaker 1: put your head on was like I said, it was
Speaker 1: a surreal. At that point the journey had just really begun.
Speaker 1: But your rookie year, you got a chance to play
Speaker 1: with the late great Moses Malone. Rest in Peace and
Speaker 1: Bernard King two bucket getters. What was that experience? Like?
Speaker 1: Oh man, it was having Mo was my guy. MO
Speaker 1: took MO was my I was most rookie. He took
Speaker 1: me on his wing and uh just taught me all
Speaker 1: the dudes and dumps about this game and about the NBA,
Speaker 1: which um I credit him for me allowing to play
Speaker 1: fourteen years and get paid for seventeen Moses was some special.
Speaker 1: Having the opportunity to to to play with him and
Speaker 1: throw that ball to him and run that flow with
Speaker 1: him was breathtaking. But not only that, but we became
Speaker 1: so close off the flo. I mean when I gree earn.
Speaker 1: Course he was at the wedding, and that was devastating
Speaker 1: because things happened right afterwards, you know, not too far,
Speaker 1: not too many months afterwards. But so but anyway, playing
Speaker 1: with him, man was special. He was my guy. He
Speaker 1: called me the Baltomore pimp, you know, because of where
Speaker 1: I came from, Baltimore, and the type is you know,
Speaker 1: always coming with all types of color skins, pink skins,
Speaker 1: grain skins, you know, in terms of shoes. And he
Speaker 1: used to call me the Baltimore Pimp. But I missed
Speaker 1: him dearly and b K men. B K was a
Speaker 1: walking bucket, as you said. You know, he was coming
Speaker 1: off of that injury off his one leg. And he
Speaker 1: always say, moth soon as I get crossed half court,
Speaker 1: I need to I need to get I said, I be,
Speaker 1: But I always tell I said, well be, you can't
Speaker 1: take no more than two dribbles, damn it. You know
Speaker 1: I want my sis. So uh. He always understood that
Speaker 1: it was a great playing with those guys men I'm
Speaker 1: hall of famous, and allowed me to be who I was.
Speaker 1: So I was grateful to be able to you know,
Speaker 1: have at that time with him too. Greats. But what
Speaker 1: do you feel like your personal welcome to the NBA.
Speaker 1: My personal welcome to the NBA moments was when when
Speaker 1: Buck Williams gave me eight stitches. You know, I went
Speaker 1: down and we play in New Jersey and he am
Speaker 1: going down trying to get this little loose rebound and
Speaker 1: in the lane should say and he let me know
Speaker 1: that this is not where God belongs. And I caught
Speaker 1: a big elbow right across my eye from that moment.
Speaker 1: So that was my introduction to the women's You also
Speaker 1: got a chance to play with and everybody was fascinated
Speaker 1: at the time that obviously he was the tallest player
Speaker 1: and you were the shortest player. What was it like
Speaker 1: playing with him? It was my guy, I mean met
Speaker 1: him and mo man, God almighty, we was like everywhere.
Speaker 1: You've seen through two of them, you've seen me if
Speaker 1: you had a little down. Um. But I tell you, man,
Speaker 1: that Nudy was funny. He was so funny man that
Speaker 1: you know, he got to keep in mind that we
Speaker 1: didn't have uh proudly planes back then. We all flew commercial.
Speaker 1: You know that's been back in the A eight We
Speaker 1: you know, teams didn't have those type of situations. So
Speaker 1: and when we go fly, you know, it's only eight
Speaker 1: first class seats, so they went by seniority. So of
Speaker 1: course Newton I got bumped in the back and we
Speaker 1: in the back end. You could imagine his knees all
Speaker 1: up in his chest because the seats stuff. So dad
Speaker 1: on small and he back there trying to tell me
Speaker 1: how he killed lions with a spell. I'm like, what
Speaker 1: what kind of line you guys got the new teeth
Speaker 1: in them out talking about you killing lines with a spear.
Speaker 1: But he was funny, man. He was such a treat
Speaker 1: to be with. And I'm so happy and so proud
Speaker 1: of bo bo Um because he's such a slight image
Speaker 1: of his daddy, even though the skill set is totally different.
Speaker 1: You know, new always, you know, I would he just
Speaker 1: one story minute and I was playing one on one
Speaker 1: and Moses was just geeking it up. It was geeking
Speaker 1: it so, I mean knew, like shoot his a little
Speaker 1: sling shot like by his ear, you know. You know,
Speaker 1: I had a forty four vertical chump. So he went
Speaker 1: to go shoot it and I blocked the shot. Boy,
Speaker 1: that pissed him off, and Moti just all over. He
Speaker 1: changed me around that damn Jim about fifteen minutes he
Speaker 1: couldn't catch and you know, and then when he tried
Speaker 1: to catch me. You know, I was a wrestler, you know,
Speaker 1: wrastler back in my day, so I kind of grabbed
Speaker 1: his little lags, put him up, and the threw him
Speaker 1: up a little bit of egg walking. I could slam
Speaker 1: me any moment now, you know. So that was one
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was one of
Speaker 1: those things I had to you know, you know, wrastling
Speaker 1: was my thing before basketball. So you blocked this shot,
Speaker 1: anyonemost dipped him, that's all bad for big fella. NBA
Speaker 1: Expansion Draft. They had the two teams Sharlts in Miami Heat. Yeah, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: that was I'll tell you what. That was another opportunity
Speaker 1: where I got another with the with the that that
Speaker 1: ugly head the NBA shows this ulf because I just
Speaker 1: the season had just ended. We just lost to Detroit
Speaker 1: in the playoffs, and we had I had my exit
Speaker 1: meeting with West umself. You know, Ma and West. We're
Speaker 1: sitting there in West was telling me, you know, all
Speaker 1: the positive things and what we're gonna try to get
Speaker 1: to next year. You know, we had a bunch of
Speaker 1: older guys on Washington, you know, Moses and Burn, our
Speaker 1: kids and those guys. You know, they were stepped to
Speaker 1: the end of their careers and I had tered Catlins
Speaker 1: and I had the young John Williams at the time.
Speaker 1: So West I said, well, you know, mothers, we're gonna
Speaker 1: bring in a lot of up a lot of up
Speaker 1: Temple guys. You know, we want to play fast page
Speaker 1: who want to do this and that? And I felt excited.
Speaker 1: I thought that, you know, we always on the same page.
Speaker 1: But as soon as I got home to my town home,
Speaker 1: I got a call from my agent, David Falk and
Speaker 1: David David Ashman, you know, how do I feel about
Speaker 1: going to Charlotte? And I'm like, Shalott, who what is Charlotte?
Speaker 1: I didn't realize the special team was coming at the time.
Speaker 1: He said, it was a new team Charotte harn is
Speaker 1: about to come in and it's a possibility that they're
Speaker 1: really interested in and they might and they want to
Speaker 1: take you. I said, what I just left my exit
Speaker 1: meeter with West and West was you know, talking about
Speaker 1: who they you know, they're going to bring in some
Speaker 1: guys that more or less up Temple style of play.
Speaker 1: He said, well, they just told me that they wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna protect you and you're gonna go to Charlotte and
Speaker 1: so so, m f this is some bold man. You
Speaker 1: just kind of just sitting there and told me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's when I learned the neglehead that that up
Speaker 1: the head of the business. And but it was a
Speaker 1: match made in heaven for me, you know, coming to Charlotte.
Speaker 1: Uh even playing here for four years in the Carolinas,
Speaker 1: so the people was aware of who I was, and
Speaker 1: you know, playing with guys like Dell Curry and Rex
Speaker 1: Chapman at early on Kirk Rams and Kelly Trapruka. You know,
Speaker 1: I was just hungry, you know, I felt, what, this
Speaker 1: is an opportunity for me to go down here and
Speaker 1: make something of my career and try to make the
Speaker 1: best stuff it regardless of this situation, you know, look
Speaker 1: at the positivity and try to, you know, get what
Speaker 1: you want out of it and see, you know, if
Speaker 1: he if he worked out in your favor, which it
Speaker 1: actually did. What was the energy like with an expansion team?
Speaker 1: Obviously it being new, they knew you from Wake four,
Speaker 1: so it made sense, But what was the energy? How
Speaker 1: big were the crowds? You know, obviously expansion is new,
Speaker 1: so your first season, what was it like with with
Speaker 1: with with all those uh things? Man, this crowd was unreal.
Speaker 1: Do they realized Charlotte was? I mean, when we I
Speaker 1: was surprised because I just I knew they knew college basketball.
Speaker 1: I didn't think they was. They didn't know anything about
Speaker 1: the professional sports. But we had the very first night
Speaker 1: we had twenty four thousand and attended. The men had
Speaker 1: tuch seeds on and then women had their gowns, so
Speaker 1: it was a formal affair for them and of course,
Speaker 1: we lost the Cleveland about forty points that night, but
Speaker 1: believe it or not, as we walked off the floor,
Speaker 1: they stood up and gave us a standard ovation. We
Speaker 1: knew we we knew that was something we knew. We
Speaker 1: was in a special place and uh and we just
Speaker 1: couldn't wait to you know, to get the season going,
Speaker 1: to try to win as money games as we possibly can.
Speaker 1: You know that very first year we only won twenty games.
Speaker 1: Didn't come back. The year after that we won nineteen games,
Speaker 1: and then from that moment on we started climbing the
Speaker 1: ladder with thirty one, forty four and fifty five and
Speaker 1: fifty five and so forth. So but we started getting
Speaker 1: good draft picks. But it had to do, you know,
Speaker 1: with the great selection of bringing the Lonzo Mornings, the
Speaker 1: Laria Johnson, the Kendall Gills and other worlds for us
Speaker 1: to get over that hunt. But at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the town support us, we broke attendant rectors for nine
Speaker 1: straight years. That was the Colosseum, right, it was the
Speaker 1: cons sum that was over on Tavola Road was as
Speaker 1: opposed to the one that is uptown. Yeah, because my
Speaker 1: my first year I played, I played one year that
Speaker 1: My first year is two thousands and thousand one. I
Speaker 1: played uh in the Colors. Um okay, yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: two thousand and two that's when they left. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they left in two thousand two. Actually, so your first
Speaker 1: year in the league was when you I thint you
Speaker 1: came in. He said, I got drafted. I got drafted
Speaker 1: at ninety seven, but I bounced around overseason, came back
Speaker 1: in in two thousand two thousand one. Talked to us
Speaker 1: a little bit. You touched on them, but but what
Speaker 1: it meant to add people to the roster like Larry
Speaker 1: Johnson and Alonzo Morning As you said, you guys continue
Speaker 1: to get better as a franchise and and started making
Speaker 1: your playoff appearances. But how how how talented with those
Speaker 1: young guys, and how much did they help uh you
Speaker 1: and your team? Yeah, I mean that was I tell you,
Speaker 1: that was the beginning. I mean our first major draft
Speaker 1: pick with j R. I mean, well, rat Shat was
Speaker 1: the first, but then we got JR. Re we started climbing.
Speaker 1: Then when we got well, we got Kendall Gill and
Speaker 1: then we got LJ. You know that that was the beginning.
Speaker 1: That was the beginning because we came off for thirty
Speaker 1: one uh winning season that year, and then when LJ came,
Speaker 1: you know, we was able to elevate all way up
Speaker 1: to forty four wins his first game, I mean his
Speaker 1: first year, and then the next year with qua Alonzo,
Speaker 1: and then you know the history from there was. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's from now on, that's where we started to really
Speaker 1: elevate our franchise, even though it was over was with
Speaker 1: us for just three years. Within those three years and
Speaker 1: l J fifty five, I think I've been his fifth year. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, we put ourselves on the national level. I mean,
Speaker 1: we was one of the young, hot upcoming teams at
Speaker 1: the time, along with Miami and Orlando. UM, because Shock
Speaker 1: and Penny was over there, we was, we was right
Speaker 1: there amongst all of them. You know that during that time,
Speaker 1: these guys at this, especially Larry, you know, his rookie year.
Speaker 1: I recalled telling him, you know, right at the midpoint,
Speaker 1: did you want to win the Rookie of the Year,
Speaker 1: Because at the time, Matumbo had a little slight edge
Speaker 1: of him and he caused a lot come a little fellows,
Speaker 1: I don't want to win the book at a year.
Speaker 1: So I told him, Okay, Well, we're gonna get you
Speaker 1: every over the year, and I specifically kind of focused
Speaker 1: on l a lot during that time. Um, but it
Speaker 1: was easy because he created the opportunities. I mean, we're running,
Speaker 1: you know, you can kind of have the means of
Speaker 1: looking one way and making a guy follow that direction,
Speaker 1: and you know, you get the ball the other direction.
Speaker 1: So have him win that award was special because that's
Speaker 1: the bond that he now always had developed with the
Speaker 1: relationship with one another, the trust with him, Alonzo del Rights,
Speaker 1: all the guys men. The bonds that we built with
Speaker 1: one another is second another. Take us back a little bit.
Speaker 1: The East in the late eighties early nineties was I
Speaker 1: mean you could punch people, you could take him out
Speaker 1: of the air. You could do all that and not
Speaker 1: get kicked out of the game. Fast forward by the
Speaker 1: time me and Jack played, if you push someone, you
Speaker 1: get suspended for two games. What was the physicality back
Speaker 1: I like back then with the bad boy pistons, Riley's
Speaker 1: knicks in Jay's bulls were on the rise. What were
Speaker 1: those battles like for you personally? Well, it was great
Speaker 1: for me. I mean I didn't have any problems. But
Speaker 1: the probably people think because you're small that you had
Speaker 1: some kind of issue with. Now, I mean that was
Speaker 1: the are that we played, and that's how I grew up,
Speaker 1: you know, And that's why, I mean we had big
Speaker 1: guys camping in the lane. You know, we had that
Speaker 1: three seconds or you had to dip in and dip out.
Speaker 1: Now they're big answer was just standing there where you
Speaker 1: couldn't go down there and sort of you know, just
Speaker 1: do what you want you hand no free lane, But
Speaker 1: that's the game, man, That's what the game was. You
Speaker 1: can hand check you, you know, kind of kind of
Speaker 1: guide you where you wanted you to go. You can
Speaker 1: come across lane for and that's me. And you know,
Speaker 1: you get hit in forms of just you know, delaying
Speaker 1: your player. Whish that wasn't a foul um. And you
Speaker 1: can curl guys, you can hung. I mean, you can
Speaker 1: do a lot more physically. You can be a lot
Speaker 1: more physical with the guys. But that's why people kind
Speaker 1: of talk about the game in that regards, because I
Speaker 1: mean it was real. I mean, you just couldn't get
Speaker 1: to your place that you wanted to go just as
Speaker 1: easy as you wanted to, you know, And that's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why they created some of these rules
Speaker 1: and trying to make the game faster for the fans
Speaker 1: and more you know, entertaining and that sort of stuff
Speaker 1: where the lane is wide open. Um, you don't have
Speaker 1: nobody camping in the lane, you can't hand check, you
Speaker 1: can't touch, um, you can't improve in one progress. So
Speaker 1: it's it's all those type of things that coming to
Speaker 1: play today to where guys of our always feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, they can play in this era. And I
Speaker 1: always say, any NBA player for like a planning you know,
Speaker 1: you know that's just the conference within themselves. You know,
Speaker 1: that's why they became NBA. Uh yeah, but all and
Speaker 1: actually they can't because there's some soft motherfucker's out there,
Speaker 1: you know, just as well as I know a lot
Speaker 1: of new motherfuckers would not be nowhere around well looking
Speaker 1: at this, looking at this right here, I can tell
Speaker 1: you it's a lot of guys won't be able to
Speaker 1: play in our era. I mean, because we're looking at
Speaker 1: skill sets in terms of how they want to justify
Speaker 1: the games. You know, we had seven ftags playing with
Speaker 1: the back towards the back. You know, we got seven
Speaker 1: foot is now bring the ball up the court. So
Speaker 1: the game was totally different. And in that regards and
Speaker 1: looking at these guys how they dribble, man, I feel
Speaker 1: like I would have to feel that stand in the basketball.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean just looking at it in terms of,
Speaker 1: you know, with the way they teach the game now
Speaker 1: and you know with you know, I can get it
Speaker 1: to a lot of stuff with the fund of me,
Speaker 1: with the two balls and all that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: But I don't want to go there. You know, the
Speaker 1: people how they feel like they need to shop in
Speaker 1: their skills that let them go do that. Right. You
Speaker 1: got a chance to play against m T. MJ in college. Uh,
Speaker 1: you guys are in the league at the same time
Speaker 1: you're you start to see him build his legend. Any
Speaker 1: great memorable matchups or stories against MJ you could share, Well,
Speaker 1: you know, MJ. He always like like what I would say.
Speaker 1: You know, we like the funk with you. You know
Speaker 1: you know that, you know he just that's just who
Speaker 1: we are with one another when we come in contact.
Speaker 1: I mean even off the court to this to this day,
Speaker 1: you know, walking around, he'll put his hand up high
Speaker 1: trying to you know, for me to give him a
Speaker 1: high fire and I'll put my hand down low and
Speaker 1: then you come down and give me a low fire.
Speaker 1: So it's just it's just not compete, I mean, compete
Speaker 1: against one another. But but but m man, you know
Speaker 1: he always tell you, you know, especially with me and
Speaker 1: playing the game, you know, Lois. It was some stuff
Speaker 1: that's going on in the internet way. They say that
Speaker 1: he called me a midget, which is not true. Um,
Speaker 1: and they felt like he had some kind of impact,
Speaker 1: which is not true. He always called me short, low fella.
Speaker 1: Yeah you need lower assays, low ass and that short stuff.
Speaker 1: So we're playing against them. Of course, he got the ball.
Speaker 1: He just came back from from retirement. He got the
Speaker 1: ball up in the air, and I'm like him, I'm
Speaker 1: playing him on the one on one. Of course, everybody
Speaker 1: in my team know that I don't like help. Don't
Speaker 1: come and help me where the guys don't come in
Speaker 1: because yeah no, no back and try to back me
Speaker 1: down because guys didn't used to playing that back to
Speaker 1: the back anyway. But anyway, this particular moment, and I
Speaker 1: guess it became infamous because he got it as a card.
Speaker 1: As I were holding the ball up and I'm looking
Speaker 1: right at him and I'm talking and I'm talking ship
Speaker 1: to him. I'm telling to come on, what you're gonna do.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden he starts to try
Speaker 1: to back me in, and try to back me in
Speaker 1: and try to back men. And then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden he tried to turn around shoot this little jumper.
Speaker 1: I smacked it down, but they called illegal defense on
Speaker 1: somebody because they wasn't then they was gonna across the line.
Speaker 1: But I always working with that, tellim to you know,
Speaker 1: you know that was still don't you know that back
Speaker 1: and forth? That's what I do. You know that ball,
Speaker 1: that ball defender, I'm gonna make you think about that
Speaker 1: when you got that ball in your hand. You make
Speaker 1: your first playoff of parents, you beat Boston in the
Speaker 1: first round and lose to the next in the second round.
Speaker 1: What's the memories of those of your playoff experience, your
Speaker 1: first pltoff experience. Well, for one, that was a great
Speaker 1: stepping stone for the franchise at the first year that
Speaker 1: we made the playoffs, that was the laws Overy first year.
Speaker 1: And for him to be able to close it out
Speaker 1: hitting that shot and being able to you know, prevail
Speaker 1: against that Boston series was a great moment. For the
Speaker 1: for the city, for the organization, and for each of
Speaker 1: us individually, you know, because that was the beginning of
Speaker 1: our careers in terms of post play, in terms being
Speaker 1: are to you know, play after the regular season. So
Speaker 1: that was a big step stepping stone for us, and
Speaker 1: we really felt like we was on our way after
Speaker 1: that moment. And the following years, you make the playoffs,
Speaker 1: you make two more playoff appearances, but don't make it
Speaker 1: out the first round. Knee injuries in your time in Charlotte,
Speaker 1: how was that feeling, knowing that the the injuries stopped
Speaker 1: you from continue to be great in Charlotte. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: well I didn't think he was gonna come to end
Speaker 1: because I was, UMIs that was gonna be tired as
Speaker 1: a horned uh Me and Dell in terms of what
Speaker 1: our involvement was with the organization. But people don't understand
Speaker 1: during that time, I have given so much, not on
Speaker 1: to the organization but for the city and sacrifice a lot,
Speaker 1: restructed my contract and so forth, and all that um
Speaker 1: from the from nine four, I mean, you go back, look,
Speaker 1: you know I was top three and it says you
Speaker 1: know it was abster double double one of me. It
Speaker 1: was close to having to double double UH throughout the
Speaker 1: years UM where I was one one point short of
Speaker 1: it UH several times, but I was had one when
Speaker 1: I had my knee issue. People don't realize I was
Speaker 1: playing on one knee, you know. Here it is they
Speaker 1: questioned about your five three and this and that. But
Speaker 1: I was out there playing on one knee. Still was
Speaker 1: able to be productive and run my team and so forth.
Speaker 1: And I was bad to come back because I I
Speaker 1: missed the entire season the year before UM due to
Speaker 1: my bone bruise. And when I discovered actual puncture, you know,
Speaker 1: I was able to down to get strength back in
Speaker 1: my cause and pull that pressure off my knee. And
Speaker 1: then they was talking about, well we need you. We
Speaker 1: would you wind up playing on one day. I don't understand.
Speaker 1: You don't have to play in the back to back
Speaker 1: games and this and that. So I accommodated them and
Speaker 1: doing so, and we won fifty six games that year.
Speaker 1: All right, we lost to New York in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: and now there's time to give me my extension, and
Speaker 1: it is they bring in a new gym. So all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I don't even gonna ain't gonna mention names.
Speaker 1: I don't wanna mention names because I don't want to
Speaker 1: go there. They bring new gyms and all this and that.
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, coach Jorge and of it and
Speaker 1: them had promised me that I would retired there. So
Speaker 1: they bring in a new gym. They decided to not
Speaker 1: give me my extention, and they created all this chaos
Speaker 1: and come back the next year. They weren't gonna let
Speaker 1: me practice, you know. They so I had to file grievous.
Speaker 1: They weren't gonna let me practice, not even because they
Speaker 1: made a trade. They brought someone in. I ain't gonna
Speaker 1: say no names, and they didn't want me to compete
Speaker 1: against them after we just finished playing against him, beating him,
Speaker 1: all sources, you know, having all sorts of success on
Speaker 1: who they bring in. We need a name, Come on,
Speaker 1: I know, I knew it was coming. That's why I
Speaker 1: set it up that way. That's here. But here did
Speaker 1: they put up there? Wesley? All right? So they had
Speaker 1: they had Dave Cole had Dave Kyle was down there,
Speaker 1: and they had Paul Paul Silas with assistant coach. So
Speaker 1: here it is come back to practice. That filed a year.
Speaker 1: They try to lock me out. And they locked me out,
Speaker 1: They locked me out of practice. And what year is this?
Speaker 1: Is this five? This is ninety seven? This is nothing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got traded. Uh, this is ninety seven when Jack
Speaker 1: was asked me that my year was coming to an end.
Speaker 1: So right after we lose in the playoffs to New
Speaker 1: York and all this and that and come back and
Speaker 1: I think I probably had one of the best series
Speaker 1: throughout everybody, but that's here there. So they bring him in.
Speaker 1: They didn't want me to practice. They try to hold
Speaker 1: me out. So I'm like, we damn, I mean, you
Speaker 1: brought somebody in. Woll I can't compete against him? I mean,
Speaker 1: this is what y'all want to m so forth a bit.
Speaker 1: So they didn't let me come. They didn't let me practice,
Speaker 1: so I had to file for a grievance. And then
Speaker 1: they brought they let me come to practice. Now while
Speaker 1: I'm in practice, so they're leaving me off for all
Speaker 1: the teams, the first team, the second team, even if
Speaker 1: they're a team. So I can't even get on the
Speaker 1: floor to practice with any of the guys. And Paul
Speaker 1: Sot at the time, Paul si was the since coach
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Paul, this is some bullshit, man. I mean, really,
Speaker 1: this is how y'all gonna treat me. This is how
Speaker 1: this is y'all treat me. Now in terms of all
Speaker 1: of this, after I just came off with one leg
Speaker 1: playing with you guys, you begged me to come back
Speaker 1: and play, and y'all gonna treat me like this. Anybody
Speaker 1: in the organization knew it was going It was wrong
Speaker 1: what they was doing, but anyway, it came to UH
Speaker 1: doing a regular season when they came to me and
Speaker 1: asked me, well, Muggs, we gotta treat well. Before that happened,
Speaker 1: we played against New York a preseason game in our arena,
Speaker 1: which in our arena everybody used to see me as
Speaker 1: a starter, playing all these minutes and so forth. Here
Speaker 1: it is, I'm on the bench. I didn't get in
Speaker 1: one minute of the game. Here it is, We're down
Speaker 1: by twenty five to New York, and the crowd was
Speaker 1: going crazy, We want Muggsy, we want Muggs. So that
Speaker 1: just got under Dave Collins again and he felt like
Speaker 1: he didn't want to go on the rest of the
Speaker 1: season under those conditions. So they made a trade for
Speaker 1: me and Golden State with b. J. Armstrong. Of course
Speaker 1: I could have blocked the trade. And I asked Tony Delp,
Speaker 1: you know, how was he comfortable? Did you want to
Speaker 1: move on because they was treating him wrong? And t
Speaker 1: D said, must I go? Man? Matter me, they ain't
Speaker 1: playing me anyway? The business as you say, I want
Speaker 1: to rewind real quick. Ninety six, you guys draft Kobe
Speaker 1: Bryant and obviously we all know he's traded to the
Speaker 1: Lakers for vlade. What was that experience like? Obviously no
Speaker 1: one really knew he was gonna turn into the player
Speaker 1: he was, But what could have been you know, you
Speaker 1: got would have had a year with him at least. Uh,
Speaker 1: what was that like during that time? Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 1: would have been special. But we understood Coke didn't want
Speaker 1: to come to Charlotte. He wanted to play in the
Speaker 1: bigger market. And once because once we came to find
Speaker 1: out that that the Horns were just taking them based
Speaker 1: on the request of the Lakers. Of course, you know,
Speaker 1: because he was a high school player, getting a lot
Speaker 1: of height, and you know, at the time we wasn't
Speaker 1: really found much, but we was hearing so much about him,
Speaker 1: and I personally start to watch a little bit highlights
Speaker 1: of them and was getting a little excited, like, this
Speaker 1: is the possibility of this, you know, Jumper, come in
Speaker 1: and do something special. But then we found out that,
Speaker 1: you know, it was a means of him wanting to
Speaker 1: play in that bigger market, and so we just realized
Speaker 1: that who was gonna be the next available player that
Speaker 1: we was gonna be able to talk quiet You shared
Speaker 1: the court with Del and obviously it's well documented. Uh
Speaker 1: the kind of big brother if you want to call it,
Speaker 1: or second dad, you were the Steph and Seth. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, not knowing who obviously Steph was going to
Speaker 1: turn into years later. What do you recall most about
Speaker 1: seeing them run around? Uh, all over the locker room
Speaker 1: in the gym, Yeah, man with special man if our
Speaker 1: kids and his kids are very close, and just having
Speaker 1: the kids in the locker room. Man, that's what this
Speaker 1: is what it was all about. Family, you know, having
Speaker 1: them around, being able to be part of the things
Speaker 1: that we was doing. Then enjoy playing basketball, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Dell and I played leven years together, you know,
Speaker 1: all of my fourteen years. We played nine here and
Speaker 1: in Charlotte and two in Toronto and having the opportunity
Speaker 1: to you know, be with Steph and Steth and play
Speaker 1: with them and have an opportunity to have an input
Speaker 1: on their masturation in terms of the game of basketball.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's priceless for me. It's a self rewarding
Speaker 1: Um saying he was able to carry the game to
Speaker 1: the host level, which is the NBA, and the saying
Speaker 1: Steph now ship become known as one of the greatest
Speaker 1: shoots ever to lace up in the NBA. That's mind boggling.
Speaker 1: That's my emboggling for me, you know, giving them a
Speaker 1: lower they're playing around and he four years old and
Speaker 1: of a setting down, he up there shooting the lights out. Man,
Speaker 1: It's surreal. But I'm so happy and blessed for those guys,
Speaker 1: for his family because they deserved him, you know, because
Speaker 1: they worked extremely hard. No, Steph as a kid, he
Speaker 1: wished he you know, he was a dream to get
Speaker 1: the five three because he felt like I got five three,
Speaker 1: I could play in the NBA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So
Speaker 1: that was special, man, saying them guys being able to
Speaker 1: fulfill their dreams. You mentioned the trade to go to
Speaker 1: the state. Uh, you spent some time in Toronto with
Speaker 1: a young Vince Carter who out the gate was a monster,
Speaker 1: but also T Mac talked to us about both those
Speaker 1: guys and did you see again Vince was hit the
Speaker 1: scene going crazy, but did you see T Mac had
Speaker 1: what he had in him to become the star he
Speaker 1: became absolutely. I mean I looked at those two guys
Speaker 1: like that. I looked at LJ and SOO when they
Speaker 1: first came into league. You know, they was hungry so
Speaker 1: much talent. And I always remember with Mode had always
Speaker 1: told me in terms of being able to have that
Speaker 1: longevity career, understand the importance of how to conduct yourself
Speaker 1: on and off the court. And I personally took those
Speaker 1: guys under my wing because I wanted to make sure
Speaker 1: that they had that opportunity to be the best, best
Speaker 1: version of themselves because this league can be so cruisier,
Speaker 1: especially to people that's out there coming after you. And
Speaker 1: when I got the opportunity to play with Vince and
Speaker 1: T Matt, I mean my eyes lit up because they
Speaker 1: was a little totally different from L G. Z Oh,
Speaker 1: these with guards to where they had this ability to
Speaker 1: create and to be able to, you know, in the
Speaker 1: highlight realms, the realms that they had was was you know,
Speaker 1: it was amazing and just listening having having their air,
Speaker 1: being able to have their air because they was hungry. Um,
Speaker 1: they was willing to listen and just telling them and
Speaker 1: teaching them. And you know how the dudes and dumps
Speaker 1: to go about yourself and go about to be professionals,
Speaker 1: I mean, and saying how they're able to put their
Speaker 1: career together. It's priceless, man, It is priceless. That's what
Speaker 1: it's all about. I know. Sometimes, I mean, we get
Speaker 1: used to seeing such amazing stuff all the time that
Speaker 1: it doesn't really a us anymore. But with those two
Speaker 1: in particular, when you, like I said, when you saw
Speaker 1: them playing some of the stuff they were doing, did
Speaker 1: you ever catch yourself in a moment like, oh ship,
Speaker 1: I gotta snap out of this because I'm still playing,
Speaker 1: or or anything like that, Because I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: Vince was making every highlight. Really you can imagine Team
Speaker 1: Mack when he got his opportunity, he was doing his thing.
Speaker 1: Were there any times where they just kind of caught
Speaker 1: you in in all situations? Oh yeah, in practice every time,
Speaker 1: I mean in practice they'd be doing some real stuff.
Speaker 1: But then in the game. I mean I gave vincel pass.
Speaker 1: I didn't think he was going to catch him. We
Speaker 1: was playing to Charlotte Horns. Believe it or not. I
Speaker 1: threw it and I thought I threw it too high,
Speaker 1: Like damn, it was exactly right, and no such thing.
Speaker 1: This kid caught it. And not only did he catch it,
Speaker 1: he was aimed to carry it to the basket. And
Speaker 1: I would like stopped me saying, like my name, you know,
Speaker 1: I just man, that was that I'm telling you, man.
Speaker 1: I mean it was effortless too. I mean his little
Speaker 1: routine warm up, just go up and just touch the
Speaker 1: top of the box on the backboard, you know, and
Speaker 1: it just feel. It's not like a run to jump,
Speaker 1: just a one lott a little one up jump. And
Speaker 1: I'm looking at man, where these kids get bats like that?
Speaker 1: You know? And this thing is natural bounced. But the
Speaker 1: skill set was something that I was kind of impressed with,
Speaker 1: you know. The jumping ability was one thing, but the
Speaker 1: skill set. And I didn't realize that Vinska shoot the
Speaker 1: ball as well as he did, as well as Team
Speaker 1: Mat as well as Team Mac. I didn't realize those
Speaker 1: guys was can shoot the ball as well as they did.
Speaker 1: You step away from the game in two thousand one,
Speaker 1: the shortest player ever top twenty five, top twenty five
Speaker 1: career and assists, played four two years and had a
Speaker 1: hell of a resume. Bro, Do you have any regrets?
Speaker 1: No regrets. You know, I was sixteen on the list
Speaker 1: before I left. When I first retired, and the reason
Speaker 1: I retired was mainly because my mom. You know, my
Speaker 1: mom was batting cancer canceled at the time. UM, I
Speaker 1: had three years left my contract. I would have played
Speaker 1: seventeen years. I got paid for seventeen, but I only
Speaker 1: played for four team. I'm thankful for Mark Cuban for
Speaker 1: allowing me to come off the books and not allowed
Speaker 1: them to go with the luxury tax, and he just
Speaker 1: paid me all the way through to two thousand four,
Speaker 1: So I truly appreciate that. UM. But MYMS was going
Speaker 1: through her her challenges and for me, she meant everything.
Speaker 1: She meant everything for me, and I just didn't want
Speaker 1: to go out there and play no more. You know,
Speaker 1: once she once she no longer it was part of this.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be part of it no more.
Speaker 1: So I felt like I did enough. I did not
Speaker 1: did well enough. For my money. You know, I wasn't
Speaker 1: in no situation, so I just couldn't. I felt like
Speaker 1: she saw my last game and it won't need to
Speaker 1: me go play no more control, says I lost. I
Speaker 1: lost my mom to cancer too, and that's how Jack
Speaker 1: and I came so close. My mom was diagnosed with
Speaker 1: stage four cancer November twenty one, two thousand seven, and
Speaker 1: died the seven, so twenty six days. So I know
Speaker 1: what kind of monster um cancer can be. So again,
Speaker 1: condolences man, that ship is That ship is never easy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been ship. It's been twenty one years and it
Speaker 1: felt like it still feel like yesterday, that's mine, But
Speaker 1: it seems like it just happened. Without basketball in your
Speaker 1: life these days? How do you satisfy your competitive drive?
Speaker 1: I know it's still in. You'll never leave us. What
Speaker 1: do you mean to kind of get that out? Well,
Speaker 1: because I got my kids. My kids keep me on
Speaker 1: my toes. That got gray babies, They keep me on
Speaker 1: my toes. My foundation. I got a nonprofit foundation where
Speaker 1: we provide scholarship for trade bound students. A lot of
Speaker 1: folks focus on the four year university students. You know,
Speaker 1: I really want to kind of give a platform to
Speaker 1: those kids who have ambitions of going to trade skill
Speaker 1: schools because I believe they can come right out and
Speaker 1: be productive and get a job right away and be
Speaker 1: skillful in those positions. And we also we feed the community.
Speaker 1: You know, we got a Label Love program where we
Speaker 1: got and feed the community on Thanksgiving, Christmas, uh Labor Day,
Speaker 1: so all the holidays we go to the community and
Speaker 1: we feed feed the community um thousand families per time
Speaker 1: at a time to where they can come out and
Speaker 1: not have to make a sacrifice whether you got gasling
Speaker 1: your car as opposed to food on your table. So
Speaker 1: you know, none of my times in that regards, and
Speaker 1: you know, serving as the basketor for the NBA as
Speaker 1: well as the Charlotte Haunets, and you know it's a
Speaker 1: lot of speaking engagements and those in those regards. So
Speaker 1: keeps me do anything athletically still, you still play pick up,
Speaker 1: you golf, you do anything like that. Yeah, I'm golfing
Speaker 1: all the time. I ain't. Don't no more running up
Speaker 1: and down New Court, no more run up and down
Speaker 1: the core ft me. You heard Jack talking. That's when
Speaker 1: you first got on Jack. Jack has had a new founder.
Speaker 1: Let me get back and start playing in this body
Speaker 1: feels like it's gonna crash every time he's done. I
Speaker 1: don't know what je Jack, Jack, you need to stop
Speaker 1: that man and tell you you don't need to put
Speaker 1: that notion in your head because you know, those little
Speaker 1: toe injuries take a long time to heal. You can
Speaker 1: get it caught and you did sheet and you can
Speaker 1: be hurt. That's what we did. Now. Thank God, all right,
Speaker 1: thank God for the tree Man, for cannabis. I be
Speaker 1: in the hospital right now. They take us back to
Speaker 1: nineteen six. You were part of, to me, one of
Speaker 1: the greatest basketball movies of all time. Space Jim, Um,
Speaker 1: how did that opportunity uh come about? Well, my agent
Speaker 1: was David Falk and Michael sut mean, Michael Patrick. We
Speaker 1: all had the same agent, and David Falk Warner brothers.
Speaker 1: I guess they called them and they was interested in
Speaker 1: some guys that pursuit this movie, which you just a
Speaker 1: little to Space Sham. And at the time I just
Speaker 1: had certain you know, I had surgery on my knee
Speaker 1: and I couldn't even walk, you know, I was on
Speaker 1: crutches and so forth, and they had Tim Hardaway come
Speaker 1: out there and and read my lines, and they told me, well,
Speaker 1: you know, moy just come on out anyway. You know,
Speaker 1: we just we're just trying to find a way to
Speaker 1: make it work. If not, then we're gonna just go
Speaker 1: another out. So I just decided to go out there
Speaker 1: and read my lines, and they kind of created an
Speaker 1: opportunity where instead of me walking, it was pulling me
Speaker 1: on the on the trolley, so act like I was
Speaker 1: kind of walking when moving my shoulders on one of
Speaker 1: the scenes. Um, but you know, it worked out. It
Speaker 1: worked out. They they used me, you know, and we
Speaker 1: had a I mean, damn, we had so much fun
Speaker 1: on that set. We was there for about three weeks.
Speaker 1: That was the same time when they created the basketball
Speaker 1: Jim for m J, which I couldn't play because I
Speaker 1: had surgery on my knee. But there was some great
Speaker 1: pickup games over there, you know set. I remember one
Speaker 1: morning we were supposed to have a shoot and l
Speaker 1: J decided to get it. He wanted to get a
Speaker 1: lotrd trim a lord hack up before the shoot, and
Speaker 1: he let this white dude cut his head who never
Speaker 1: cut a black guy head before. So long story short,
Speaker 1: he gave him a fucked up cut. So we had
Speaker 1: to counsel to shoot that morning, and they had to
Speaker 1: have some life from l A to kind of tighten
Speaker 1: him up to where he felt comfortable to going back
Speaker 1: on cameras. But man, there was some good days back there.
Speaker 1: A lot of card playing, a lot of cards. If
Speaker 1: they were gonna be a bio pick of your life,
Speaker 1: who would play you? Oh ship? Who's gonna play? Damn? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, ain't too many five ft three guys out
Speaker 1: there that they kind of said, I main, God, who
Speaker 1: would I'm trying to think of an active man. I
Speaker 1: can't think of to anybody out there. May not have
Speaker 1: to be five free any Kevin kep you Kevin Hart
Speaker 1: to day you know, care you done? Calf could probably
Speaker 1: play keV got I did I think like a man
Speaker 1: with Kevin. I just thought he was a funny guy
Speaker 1: that he could he could hoop a little bit. He
Speaker 1: was out there kind of showing that ship Calm might
Speaker 1: be a good one. We just have to put some
Speaker 1: makeup on them, lightening them up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He played in the Celebrity Game with up as you
Speaker 1: know for the NBA. You know when I played in
Speaker 1: that Celefty game, but yeah, I don't know. Man, that's
Speaker 1: that's a hard one. That the kind of spell up
Speaker 1: trying to think of, Man, you you got we come
Speaker 1: back to LaMelo ball. How is he taking the city
Speaker 1: of Charlotte in that organization by storm? No, dont fit
Speaker 1: in perfect. I mean he's a great kid. He understands
Speaker 1: where it is I think, you know, and meaning by
Speaker 1: it's a small market, you know, it's not in l
Speaker 1: A or New York. Uh. He embraced the town to
Speaker 1: this town as open arms with embraced him with long
Speaker 1: sources of hospitality. Um. I just think he really gets it,
Speaker 1: you know, be so young, he really gets it and
Speaker 1: he really electrified the crowd. I mean he's a guy
Speaker 1: kid that uh, bringing his teammates and getting them gavnized
Speaker 1: and believing enough in the city is following right behind him.
Speaker 1: So I really think that the feature is bright. I
Speaker 1: really believe that bringing in I T. Was a big
Speaker 1: push for him. And I told Mitch cup shut that. Um.
Speaker 1: But people don't on the under estimate what I T
Speaker 1: can mean for a guy like Melow, not just on
Speaker 1: the basketball court, but off the court as well, in
Speaker 1: terms of the way this kid was and how you
Speaker 1: can tuck them, and you never realized he was an
Speaker 1: All Star, you know, so and they ain't have nobody
Speaker 1: else on that bench who can give him that type
Speaker 1: of information, especially at that point guard position, and not
Speaker 1: only that he can play alongside of them too. So
Speaker 1: I was really happy and grateful that he got his
Speaker 1: opportunity here in Charlotte, even though he even you know,
Speaker 1: getting opportunities in Dallas and that and the and so forth.
Speaker 1: But I told him this is the place that he
Speaker 1: can kind of we you know, we used in his career,
Speaker 1: especially if this organization look at him the way that
Speaker 1: I'm looking at him, and how he can impact, you know,
Speaker 1: the young fellas on that team. I think you touched
Speaker 1: on something that Jack and I talked about all the time,
Speaker 1: is the league is so young now, there's no veteran
Speaker 1: leadership and how important that really is. Like you said,
Speaker 1: obviously he can still give you something on the court,
Speaker 1: but off the court could possibly be even be more
Speaker 1: valuable at this point, you know, helping guide young players
Speaker 1: like LaMelo and and some of the other guys on
Speaker 1: the roster. But it's something we talked about all the time.
Speaker 1: I mean, now, I mean when we came in the league,
Speaker 1: there was always vets thirty seven thirty thirty nine year
Speaker 1: old guys that can kind of you know, R O
Speaker 1: G s now that it's the young leading the young.
Speaker 1: So I think that's a great situation for I T.
Speaker 1: Obviously a friend of our show, a friend of the program,
Speaker 1: but but happy to see he landed on his feet there.
Speaker 1: But I love what you touched on because I think
Speaker 1: it's so undervalue these days that they don't you know,
Speaker 1: as soon as you get past Ship thirty three, thirty
Speaker 1: three thirty four, that window was shutting, and and and
Speaker 1: and how important veterans are to help, especially young teams.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know Ship when you as soon you
Speaker 1: hit thirty, they're looking at you old. You know, I
Speaker 1: remember going and let's I said it and they're talking
Speaker 1: and when you're talking about renegotiation, they really bring that up.
Speaker 1: So um, I mean, I'm just so happy for I T. Man.
Speaker 1: He's a great kid. He's a great kid man that
Speaker 1: deserves this opportunity, you know, with all he went through
Speaker 1: it and he had to endure that be back in
Speaker 1: this position because he got a lot to give, and
Speaker 1: I'm just happy that he's here. Being able to give
Speaker 1: it to this organization, which I got a great fond
Speaker 1: memory of. Outside of the guys on your the Hornets,
Speaker 1: are there any players you enjoy watching today? Oh? Of
Speaker 1: course it was of course step You know a little
Speaker 1: watching steph CP. You know, not just because he went
Speaker 1: to wake Fas, but you know, because he's still that general,
Speaker 1: that guy that really elevates his teammates and people understand
Speaker 1: the importance of his brilliancy in terms of running the team.
Speaker 1: You know, running the team is something that is being
Speaker 1: so underappreciated that people don't really look at that. That's
Speaker 1: the beginning start of how you being able to be
Speaker 1: really successful amongst that team. So I'm happy for that,
Speaker 1: And I mean I just love the game, you know,
Speaker 1: I love watching the game k d A Cave, IRV
Speaker 1: and all the greats that's out there doing that thing
Speaker 1: from the job Iran, and I know that that's another
Speaker 1: special kid right there. You know, johjis really putting his
Speaker 1: lead on notice and people don't understand that. They're looking
Speaker 1: at the the athleticism, but the i Q level. It's
Speaker 1: the i Q level for me in terms of his
Speaker 1: masturation on that floor, being able to to get his
Speaker 1: teammates involved at the same time being able to do
Speaker 1: his I'm gonna put you on the spot right here.
Speaker 1: Who do you see We're about a few weeks away
Speaker 1: from the playoffs. Who do you see in the finals?
Speaker 1: Who do you think is going to represent the East? Well,
Speaker 1: it's hard to go for me. People keep talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, the Heat and for me, just Milwaukee. You
Speaker 1: gotta go through Milwaukee. You know, Milwaukee is the complete
Speaker 1: team for me in terms of what they have and
Speaker 1: what they was able to do. And you still gotta
Speaker 1: beat the defensive champ in order to become the champs.
Speaker 1: And the East right now, there's too many unnoticed for me.
Speaker 1: It's too many concerns with Brooklyn. You never know what's
Speaker 1: going on with this situation with Kyrie and so forth.
Speaker 1: How many more games you're gonna be to participate in,
Speaker 1: you know, and and with the Heat, you know, they
Speaker 1: just for me, is something missing. It's just something missing.
Speaker 1: Even though they got some dogs over there, it's just
Speaker 1: something missing. Even though with the addition of Kyle Lowry,
Speaker 1: it's still is something missing to where they're not jelling
Speaker 1: like they even though they got the best record. But
Speaker 1: it's something that they're not jelling the way I think
Speaker 1: they would have like they did in the past when
Speaker 1: they wanted So um, in the east is Milwaukee and
Speaker 1: then in the West it's Phoenix. You know, go to State.
Speaker 1: Got too many inconsistency things going on. Phoenix has been
Speaker 1: steady even though CP has been out, but he'll be back.
Speaker 1: So I got those two and yeah, man, I think
Speaker 1: Phoenix is too. I agree with you. I mean, I like,
Speaker 1: I like Golden State, but you know, with steps injury
Speaker 1: and like you said, too many unknowns, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: hard to get that rhythm. But Phoenix is state consistent.
Speaker 1: They got a taste of it last year. Everyone thought
Speaker 1: it was luck that they got there. They took that
Speaker 1: ship to heart and had a chip on their shoulder
Speaker 1: all year. Got better shout out Money Williams and them boys.
Speaker 1: So I definitely think, you know, Phoenix, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a good year for Phoenix. And you guys know, it
Speaker 1: takes a lot, a lot to go right in order
Speaker 1: to win that ship. You know, it just it just
Speaker 1: takes a lot, you know, and everything just gotta line up.
Speaker 1: A little luck gotta happen for you as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: you just gotta line up and with these other teams
Speaker 1: with you know, with Golden State, you know, not knowing
Speaker 1: the situation with Steph and Clay going through his situation
Speaker 1: and Draymon just coming back. You know, Finish just been steady.
Speaker 1: They just had an injury with CP, but they've just
Speaker 1: been steady and they've been playing steady basketball without him.
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be hard. I think it's gonna be
Speaker 1: hard to get them out. And I'm still rival Golden State,
Speaker 1: but I would love to see CP when the chip
Speaker 1: go ahead. Jack. Yeah, coming from Baltimore, Like you talk
Speaker 1: about Javonte Davis and what he means to boxing in Baltimore, Well,
Speaker 1: you know, we call him Tank, you know he yeah, yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: He's mean everything to be More. I mean that's representation.
Speaker 1: You know, anybody comes from be More, man, we're gonna
Speaker 1: we're gonna represent the city the way we where it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be represented. You know. And he's a blue collar.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a kid that understands where he is
Speaker 1: and where he comes from, and he lived his life
Speaker 1: in that in in that way you know, he's been
Speaker 1: Now he's being very smart and in terms of keeping
Speaker 1: himself out of the lime life and negative situations. He's
Speaker 1: all about his business, he's about his family, you know,
Speaker 1: his little girl. I'm just loving everything about the Tank
Speaker 1: and I'm just so proud that he's able to, you know,
Speaker 1: be able to make it through those situations. It's growing
Speaker 1: up in the inner city of Bmo. But because people,
Speaker 1: you know, we all have stories. Everybody have challenges, you know,
Speaker 1: but when you're able to, you know, overcome those adversities
Speaker 1: and see them guys man being able to reach the
Speaker 1: pinnacle of success, you know, it's it's self rewarting. For me,
Speaker 1: I'm a big Take fan and I've seen it changed
Speaker 1: with my own eyes. You know. We go to all
Speaker 1: his fights and is af there's one fight he was
Speaker 1: early on how flashy he was, you know, and how
Speaker 1: he kind of now it's true professional, true professional. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's preparing and a lot of stuff that he was
Speaker 1: doing off the court. I think he got away from
Speaker 1: and locked into being a pro. And and it's definitely showed.
Speaker 1: And all his performances up from from that last perform
Speaker 1: but three fights ago they had where he didn't prepass.
Speaker 1: So I'm a big time Take fan. You do is
Speaker 1: there any other boxes that you like to watch or
Speaker 1: in any other fights that you want to see in
Speaker 1: two well fights, man, I'll tell you what they the
Speaker 1: fights that's out there. You got special out there. We
Speaker 1: we got who else we got out there? We got
Speaker 1: we got goog y'all, we got Fermin firm and coming
Speaker 1: back right. Yeah. We gotta see we gotta say. We
Speaker 1: gotta see Thurman. Thurman been up and down. Yeah, and Carnello.
Speaker 1: You know what I gotta I need. I need to
Speaker 1: see Carnello. I need to see Cannello fight somebody. Man.
Speaker 1: He need to fight a real now, that's what he
Speaker 1: needs to do. I need Yeah, yeah, I need to
Speaker 1: see him fight. You know, uh uh? Who we got
Speaker 1: that I'm missing? I'm missing one listening one, not not
Speaker 1: Porter Charlo, not not Challos, not Challos. I'm missing one. Crawford. Crawford, Yeah, Crawford, Yes, yes, him,
Speaker 1: That's what I was missing. Crawford. Yeah. But Cannello gotta
Speaker 1: fight somebody. You know, he's been dancing around and on
Speaker 1: the first year I believe he for was was Mayweather,
Speaker 1: and that was too early for him to be fighting
Speaker 1: Mayweather when he for them, and and he's still arguing
Speaker 1: with Triple G and Triple and now he's still arguing
Speaker 1: with Triple G, trying to fight Triple G again. He
Speaker 1: needs to move on. You to one of them Charlotte
Speaker 1: boys and fight fight being to beat as I think
Speaker 1: being to be has to beat him, that's possibility. I
Speaker 1: like to see it though. I'd like to see that one.
Speaker 1: But that Triple G. Yeah, you he hit it, you
Speaker 1: hit on. You hit a good note there about Triple G,
Speaker 1: you know, but he Uh. I don't know who's out
Speaker 1: there for Tank though, I'm trying to think who would
Speaker 1: be a good fight for Tank that that way class
Speaker 1: he I'm happy fighting Roll. I'm happy he's he's getting
Speaker 1: a chance to fight. Has some trouble. But Ronnie talks
Speaker 1: a lot and ROLI think he he just the best
Speaker 1: things then boxing since boxing started. But he's one of
Speaker 1: those guys that take me to knock his face off. Tink.
Speaker 1: He's gonna shut him up real quick. He ta, he
Speaker 1: really that. I don't even know why I really put it.
Speaker 1: But he want that But he want that bag. He
Speaker 1: want that bag. Yeah, he want that bag. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: definitely wanted that bag. But let's since you on our podcasts,
Speaker 1: which we're happy that you came on. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: your podcast. How did you get into the space. Oh,
Speaker 1: she's just messing around with Oak Tree and Twirl, you know,
Speaker 1: and and just talking the game man, and well, you know,
Speaker 1: especially when you get around Oak and bringing all source
Speaker 1: of toppers up into where it's gonna go. It starts
Speaker 1: off one way and it's gonna be off another, you know,
Speaker 1: just just the way my man operate. And I love
Speaker 1: him for it, man, But you know, just talking to Game,
Speaker 1: and I felt like, you know, we had something to
Speaker 1: offer based on where we came from and our journeys.
Speaker 1: And Earl. Earl got so many damn stories, you know,
Speaker 1: him playing with the Doctor, Jay's or the world and
Speaker 1: Isaiah and so forth. I mean, he he's a storyteller.
Speaker 1: But you know, Tree, oh Tree got so much too.
Speaker 1: Where I just need to just sit back and listen,
Speaker 1: you know. All right, we're coming down to the home stretch.
Speaker 1: Quick hitters. First thing to come to mind. Let us
Speaker 1: know you plus four any players that have ever played
Speaker 1: in the NBA. Who are you bringing with you? Oh?
Speaker 1: Ship me plus four? Well, I'm gonna gona just stay
Speaker 1: with my boys that you know I'm gonna bring with me.
Speaker 1: I got del carry with me, I got Oak with me,
Speaker 1: I got l J with me, and I guys Zoe
Speaker 1: with me. That's a mob. That's a mob. Stuck on
Speaker 1: the island. Which three shows are movies? You're watching, oh,
Speaker 1: stuck on the island. I'm watching Space Game. I'm watching
Speaker 1: Caribbean through Seasm. That's a good that's a good basketball
Speaker 1: movie too. Yeah, all the movies that I was in,
Speaker 1: all the scenes that you were known as obviously one
Speaker 1: of the toughest defenders. Your top three toughest matchups, you
Speaker 1: felt like magic was one Penny and GP. I just
Speaker 1: I just watched uh hardbook Classes Class night. It was
Speaker 1: ninety three Phoenix versus Seattle in the playoffs, Charles Barkley's
Speaker 1: MVP year Verse Shawn Kemp and GP. That ship was
Speaker 1: a battle boy. The game was so different back then.
Speaker 1: The absolutely sat and watched the whole entire game and
Speaker 1: just saw, like you said, back to the basket, the
Speaker 1: tight curls, that the guiding the hand, how GP would
Speaker 1: try to and they started double teaming Kevin Johnson because
Speaker 1: he was too fast that it was dope forgot about
Speaker 1: kJ well, kJ was special boy Kje five Dinner Guests,
Speaker 1: Dad are Live? Five dinner guess. Oh, Michael Jackson's one.
Speaker 1: I got Martin Luther King is too, I got Mandela
Speaker 1: is three. Yeah. And then of course I would love
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to sit down with Mom and gay,
Speaker 1: you know, and for me, I did have an opportunity
Speaker 1: to sit down with her. But I would love to
Speaker 1: have a back at my identitable was my ms My answer?
Speaker 1: Very nice? Nice, nice favorite artists from the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 1: like who did you used to listen to? Uh preparing
Speaker 1: for games? Oh? Man? You know back then, that's when
Speaker 1: hip hop was just getting the beginning. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean? But you know, I gotta go with my
Speaker 1: man trial called quest because I was in this song,
Speaker 1: you know, to tip, I gotta get tipped some a
Speaker 1: little love. What guests would you like to see on
Speaker 1: our show? But before you answer this question, you asked
Speaker 1: you have to help us get your answer on our show?
Speaker 1: What guests I'd like to see you guys have on
Speaker 1: the show, And let me see what kiss? Who will be?
Speaker 1: Somebody that's really you said? You guys have everybody on
Speaker 1: dying to get on the show because I'm a Texas boy.
Speaker 1: Oh you're talking about l j J. Grandma, Ma that
Speaker 1: we need a show. We need I have a show. Okay, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I work it. Well man, that's a rap, Buggy. We
Speaker 1: appreciate your time and everything you've done for this game,
Speaker 1: the inspiration you've been and continuing to take care of
Speaker 1: your community. We love, We appreciate you, man, and thank
Speaker 1: you for your time today. I appreciate you guys. Man.
Speaker 1: I've been a big fan of both of you guys
Speaker 1: for quite some time. I just really appreciate the platform
Speaker 1: that you guys created now, but more so what you
Speaker 1: gotta for your careers, with your family's and so forth. Man,
Speaker 1: keep spreading that love and keep doing that positive work
Speaker 1: out there. Well, that's a rap. Muggsy Bogus. Appreciate your
Speaker 1: basketball on YouTube and the I heart platform, Black Effects.
Speaker 1: We'll see y'all next week.