1 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Scurrying America with me Frank Gaffney, the program 2 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country 3 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: we love against all enemies foreign and domestic, to the 4 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: glory of God and his Kingdom. We have a very 5 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: important conversation that we're going to begin momentarily with three 6 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: of my favorite people working in the space of protecting 7 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: Christians being horribly persecuting around the world. Before we get 8 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: to it, I want to just give you a minute 9 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: of my thoughts as context. Last week, President Trump, to 10 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: his great credit, resolved to punish radical Islamist in my 11 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: ury responsible for the mass slaughter of Christians. In a 12 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: social media post on October thirty first, he declared, quote, 13 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: the United States cannot stand by while such atrocities are 14 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: happening in Nigeria and numerous other countries. We stand ready, 15 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 1: willing and able to save our great Christian population around 16 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: the world unquote. Next week, though, President Trump will actually 17 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: be hosting Ahmed al Sharah at the White House, a 18 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: man who until recently led radical Islamis of al Qaeda 19 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: and isis in committing atrocities against Christians and others in Syria. 20 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: Worse yet now he's Siria as president, they have ties 21 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: to his regime and are continuing with impunity to perpetrate 22 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: such persecution. Let us pray that mister Trump will make 23 00:01:52,480 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: clear that his protection extends to those great Christians in Syria. Two. Well, 24 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: with that, let me introduce my dear friend and valued colleague, 25 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: the president and CEO of Save the Persecuted Christians did Mordism. 26 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: She is no stranger to this program. She has been 27 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: with us for quite some time now bringing you information 28 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: about this most horrific crime against humanity of all human history, 29 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: namely the persecution hubble of now some three hundred and 30 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: eighty million Christians around the world. It's so good to 31 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: have you with us, and I know you've brought some 32 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: big guns in the Save the Persecuted Christians community introduced 33 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: them please and a short video that you've done as well. 34 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm the subject you see it. 35 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: Thank you, Frank. As you know, Save the Persecuted Christians 36 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: started in twenty eighteen, endeavoring to raise awareness about the 37 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: plight of more than three hundred and eighty million Christians 38 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 2: facing the most brutal and extreme violence in a record 39 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 2: number of countries. Globally. We are alarmed national multi faith, 40 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 2: bipartisan coalition of civil society leaders who work to work 41 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: with concerned Americans, victims of persecution, and others to hold 42 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: the perpetrators accountable for their crimes against humanity. And Frank, 43 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: we are launching a campaign to counter President Ahmed al Shara, 44 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: who's coming, as you said, to the White House on Monday. 45 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: We are launching a social media video that will be 46 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: shared by multiple platforms across the web starting tomorrow. We 47 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: also have over fifty American Christian leaders who've signed on 48 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: to a faith letter Frank that will be sending to 49 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: the President also tomorrow. And we have a call to 50 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: action at Savethepersecuted Christians dot org, where the American public 51 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: can also send a letter to President Trump. So, Frank, 52 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: this lee and the video call on President Trump to 53 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: secure a humanitarian corridor from Hadder, which is a Drew 54 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: city near the Israeli border, to Sueda, where over seven 55 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: hundred thousand Drews and Christians and other minorities are suffering 56 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: from a blockade that has continued to endure since they 57 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: were attacked this summer. Frank and over three thousand people murdered. 58 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: Now they're finding mass graves. Frank, let's go to the 59 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: video and then we'll come back and introduce our guests. 60 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 3: Massacre in Syria. Christians and others are being slaughtered by 61 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 3: radical Islamic terrorists, burned alive, the headed, persecuted for their faith, 62 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 3: and their cries have been ignored. Their suffering is deepening 63 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 3: as winter approaches. Seven hundred thousand people in Sueda are starving, 64 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: deprived of water, food, and basic medicine. President Trump, you're 65 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 3: the only world leader fighting for religious freedom. Tell President 66 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 3: Alshar to keep his promises and stop blocking humanitarian aid 67 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: Tel al Shara and the blockade. 68 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: Wow. Very powerful, DEDI congratulations on pulling this together and 69 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: this larger campaign. I'm proud to have been one of 70 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: the signers on that letter, and I'm so excited that 71 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: others will be able to join us in calling for 72 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: this humanitarian corridor. We've got two guests with us who 73 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: have deep experience in this region, including one who's just 74 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: returned from Syria. Introduce them if you would, did, please certainly. 75 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: Nadine Mainza is the co chair for the International Religious 76 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: Freedom Roundtable in Washington, DC, and my friend Charmaine Heading 77 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,799 Speaker 2: is the president of the Shy Fund located in Israel, 78 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: but does amazing work around the world. 79 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: Frank and Nadine, maybe we could talk with you a 80 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: little bit from your on the ground assessment of what 81 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: is going on. What Dedi described as horrific and it 82 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: stands in you know, a similar light to what the 83 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: president has said he's not going to tolerate in Nigeria. 84 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: Should he tolerated in Syria? Of course not. 85 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 4: And you know, Syria is so complicated because, of course 86 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 4: we had sixty years of authoritarian rule by Bashar al 87 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 4: Asad that really divided religious communities against each other. He 88 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 4: set up the majority against the minority. So a lot 89 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 4: of people have this belief that he protected the Christians 90 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 4: but really used them as hostages kind of against the 91 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 4: Sunni majority and setting up a situation now where there's 92 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 4: so much hostility and anger towards different sects. The Christians 93 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 4: are kind of caught in the crossfire and it's a 94 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 4: very hostile place for them to be. And of course, 95 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 4: with so much of the violence we've seen in Syria, 96 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 4: there has been proof that the government them selves, the 97 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 4: security forces of the government, have been implicated in fact, 98 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 4: sometimes even upload videos of themselves committing atrocities against in 99 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 4: particular Jurus, Alohites and sometimes Christians. And so this in 100 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 4: the Just to. 101 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: Be clear, there's no question in your mind that the 102 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: government of Syria under Al Sharrah former al Jalauni is 103 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: implicated in these actuals. 104 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 4: Well, their security forces are, and and the question really is, 105 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 4: you know, is it that that they're following orders or 106 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 4: is it that the government has no control over them. 107 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 4: I don't believe that Alshara thinks it would be a 108 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 4: win for him to be committing atrocities against these communities 109 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 4: right now, But but he he has these Islamist forces, 110 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: some that answered the call to jihad that came from 111 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 4: around the world, the foreign fighters to join HTS, his 112 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 4: original terrorist group, tell al shar and then to move 113 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 4: on and become part of the government. So so it's 114 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 4: a complicated situation. I've talked to several people in the government. 115 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 4: They do want piece and stability, they don't want this 116 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 4: kind of violence. But because and there's impunity for people 117 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 4: that kidnap and kill religious minorities, it's it's kind of 118 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 4: set the stage for people to think they can get 119 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 4: away with those kind of crimes without any sort of accountability. 120 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: I was told, and I don't know if you can 121 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: comment on this, that in the immediate run up to 122 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: al Sharrah coming to the United Nations to speak and 123 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: to be feted as a great, you know, reformer, notwithstanding 124 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: as past track record with these jihadis, villages in these 125 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: minority areas were put to the tort and the implication 126 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: was that he did know about it and accountenance. 127 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 4: Do you have any comment on that, Well, we do 128 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 4: know there has been you know, no focus from the 129 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 4: government to stop it. There's been them no sending, not 130 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 4: anytime they've sent in troops to bring pieces done the opposite. 131 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 4: So it's hard to know exactly who is how coordinated 132 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 4: these are and in what the government if the government 133 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 4: is a part of them. But the fact remains there happening, 134 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 4: that people are losing their lives, they're being kidnapped for ransom, 135 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 4: sometimes being killed before you know, even if they collect 136 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 4: the ransom, that these horrible trosties that were happening throughout Syria, 137 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 4: and there is no cost for them committing these crimes, 138 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 4: and that environment regardless of how if in fact they're 139 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 4: complicit or they're just allowing it to happen or not 140 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 4: able to stop it. Still, this is part of the Yeah. 141 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: And DEDI, I'm so grateful to you for your leadership 142 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: and all of this. The work of the Safe Persecuted 143 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: Christian Coalition is to try to ensure that the perpetrators 144 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: are held accountable and enter penal ask for what they're doing. 145 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: And this needs to be done, it seems to me 146 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: with respect to is Herean regime as well as these 147 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: so called security forces. DIDI were almost a time before 148 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: the break. But I did want to thank Charmaine having 149 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: for joining us as well, and we're going to talk 150 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: with her on the other side of the break about 151 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: how all of this is received by her, of course, 152 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: as well as from Israel, which is unfortunately in the 153 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: cross airs of these jihatis as well. We'll be right 154 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: back with that and more. Say to please welcome back. 155 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: We are talking with three of my personal heroes in 156 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 1: the fight to save persecuted Christians and much else. Frankly, 157 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: they are saving Western civilization because the people killing Christians 158 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: want to take down Judeo Christian civilization. Did he introduce 159 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: our friend Charmain once again, if you would please, and 160 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: they didn't mention, and I had a little riff. They're going, 161 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: but we haven't heard from Charmain and she's got a 162 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: very important contribution to beat to this discussion. 163 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: As I said, Frank, Charmain heading is the president of 164 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 2: Chifun in Israel, and she is one of those who 165 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 2: is very desperately trying to get humanitarian aid across the 166 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 2: border and into Sweda. People are literally dying of thirst. Frank, 167 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 2: they can't get water even so, Charmaine tell us a 168 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,599 Speaker 2: little bit about some of the hurdles that you're experiencing 169 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 2: trying to get your humanitarian aid. 170 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 5: In Thanks for having me, Frank, and DIDDI. Yeah. I 171 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 5: think it's important to understand that the Druze community, which 172 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 5: is a religious ethnic community in Syria, has communities in 173 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 5: Lebanon in Syria and of course in Israel, and they 174 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 5: have mobilized a tremendous amount of support as much as 175 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 5: they can to get the aid across the border and 176 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 5: into Sueda, where the Alshara regime has enforced a blockade 177 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 5: and so they're not allowing a basic food water. 178 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 2: Flower. 179 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 5: These kinds of communities consume vast amounts of flowers. Tons 180 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 5: of it, and we know that there's a massive shortage 181 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 5: of these and other medicines. And the problem is is 182 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 5: that it's going supposed to go through Damascus, where governor, 183 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 5: the governor of Damascus, which is an HTS governor, then 184 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 5: has to sign off on all of the aid, including 185 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 5: the aid that's going through the Red Crescent, and they 186 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 5: are politicizing the aid. They will not sign off on it, 187 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 5: and they are using it to blockade the Drews in 188 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 5: order to weaken them so that they do not protest 189 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 5: against what is happening. And what is happening isn't an 190 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 5: ethnic cleansing. We've just heard today that there were mass 191 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 5: graves found, the amount of gang rapes. We know that 192 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 5: thirty eight villages of the Drews are in control of 193 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 5: HTS and they're not giving them back, and we want 194 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 5: again just. 195 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: To clarify from them. HTS is the kind of isis 196 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: sort of you know, subsidiary that was run by this 197 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: president Syria until very recently. So when you're talking about HTS, 198 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: are you talking about a terrorist organization to which he 199 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: still has connections. 200 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 5: Of course, we know that he's connected to al Qaeder, 201 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 5: We know that he knows what al Qaeder is up 202 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 5: to across the region, including in Afghanistan. And yes, HTS 203 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 5: was a terrorist organization until it was delisted, just until 204 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 5: he was delisted recently. But there's also other groups that 205 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 5: he's brought into his Syrian National Army for the transitional government. 206 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 5: At this point, we're still in a transitional period and 207 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 5: they have elements of ISIS in and we've seen a 208 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 5: number of Syrian National Army uniforms in Sueda with ISIS patches, 209 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 5: so we know I've seen that it is. It's a 210 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 5: clue and if we don't get a shame on us. 211 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, did I want to explore further this proposition that 212 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: if you could get a humanitarian corridor that obviously doesn't 213 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: get subjected to the same kind of hijacking or manipulation, 214 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: it might actually help stave off some of the worst 215 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: of the persecution that is befalling. 216 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: Is that right, absolutely, Frank, If if the people can 217 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: be strengthened, and and you know, they're not the only 218 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: ones suffering in Syria right now. The Christians and Damascus 219 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 2: are suffering. The Kurds and Christians and other groups who 220 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: have formed their own autonomous region and self governance up 221 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: in northeast Syria are also under the pressure of these 222 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: Syrian army you know, HTS commanders and fighters and there 223 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 2: is so we need stability in Syria and we need 224 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: to we need to call for equal rights for all 225 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: of the minorities in Syria. Their constitution must be a 226 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: constitution for all Syrians and not just for the Muslims 227 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: of Syria. There's there are so many things, yes, but 228 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: to first and foremost, the biggest priority here is to 229 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: stabilize the lives of those who are literally being starved 230 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 2: to death uh and and deprived of everything they need 231 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 2: for life. The US to have a strong role in this. 232 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, just to wrap this up, We've got three minutes. 233 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: Just if each of you would, in your own words, 234 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: speak to this issue. President Trump has taken a very 235 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: strong and desperately needed stance about as I said in 236 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: my commentary, not just the Christians in Nigeria, but Christians 237 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: and other nations around the world. Must he now take 238 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: the same stand, even if it's uncomfortable with a guy 239 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: who hasn't again at the very best until recently, been 240 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: directly implicated in the kind of Islamist terror and persecution 241 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: that he abhors in Nigeria right up and may still 242 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: be doing it, albeit through you know, kaduitz Nadine. Let 243 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: me start with you. 244 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think that as you know, President prepares 245 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 4: to meet with President Trump pre prayers to meet with 246 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 4: Al Shara this this next week in Washington, you can 247 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 4: make a case for the Christians for all the minorities 248 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 4: of Syria. And part of that is how they set 249 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,479 Speaker 4: up this governance. They set it up in a decentralized 250 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 4: way where where local communities have a say in their 251 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 4: own security and in their own governments. Right now, all 252 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 4: the mayors are from DLAB, the security forces are all 253 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 4: from IDLAB, which means are all part of HBS. Local 254 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 4: Christians can't have a say, they can't secure their own areas. 255 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 4: If that changed, and we in the President the White 256 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 4: House pushed for decentralization so that people could have a 257 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 4: say in their own government's own security. That could produce 258 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 4: some safer areas for these minorities to be able to live. 259 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 4: And that's something the White House could absolutely demand from 260 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 4: this government and it would go far for these. 261 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: And really must Charman your thoughts on that question. 262 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize that 263 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 5: Christians are being caught up and a lot of these 264 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 5: jihudies are saying we're coming for you next. And in 265 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 5: the Sueda region where the massacres happened with the Drews, 266 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 5: and we know that there were Christians that were killed, 267 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 5: whole Christian families, Muslim background believing churches that were existing 268 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 5: in this region with the Drews, we're all wiped out 269 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 5: by these ju hudies. If we say we care for 270 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 5: the religious minorities, that we have to have a decentralized 271 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 5: Syria with equal citizenship for all that offers protection for 272 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 5: everyone within that country. 273 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 2: It's a prior. 274 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: So really it's a bigger project than just a humanitarian 275 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: corridoricularic try to really prevent what's on at the moment. Yea, 276 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: your thoughts on the question. 277 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: Well, Frank, the proxy wars of Turkey and Iran into 278 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 2: the Middle East is spread all throughout Africa, not only Nigeria, 279 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 2: but Rakina, Fasso, Niger, Mozambique, Molly, Sudan, Ethiopia. They are 280 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 2: all suffering from these gie hottists. President Trump is a 281 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 2: truth teller and he is standing for persecuted Christians around 282 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 2: the world. He's got a big fight on his hands. 283 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: Let me just say, Didi and all three of you, 284 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: if you could comment very briefly on this. We're facing 285 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: the reality, as I think you said, Nadine, They're coming 286 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: for Christians elsewhere too, including in this country. We just 287 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: had Zorin Mamdani collected to run New York City and 288 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: a man who makes no bones. I think about his 289 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, affentities for this. Sure we is supremacism. Is 290 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: this a problem for Americans here at home as well? 291 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: Did you mean we start with you? 292 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, very much so, Frank. In fact, going viral on 293 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 2: social media today is a twenty nineteen video of Cardinal 294 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: Sarah who said, the barbarians are already here. And I've 295 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 2: been saying, if we do inside the gate, if we 296 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 2: do not counter, if we do not counter this jihad 297 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: that's raging around the world, and we've invited them into 298 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: our borders here through the Biden administration. They are on 299 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 2: our doorstep, they are knocking on the door, and they 300 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 2: are in our streets. Frank, we are in danger. 301 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Nadin and Charmain out of time today to 302 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: ask you to respond to that same question. But I 303 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: know it's on your hearts to come back, and we'll 304 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: address all of these issues at greater length in there future. Meantime. 305 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: God bless you and the great work you're doing to say, 306 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: persecuted Christian keep it up. God bless the rest of 307 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: you as well. Stay tuned for more that's securing America 308 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: right after this. 309 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,959 Speaker 6: We're back. And so I'm very pleased to say, I 310 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 6: think for the first time, is Matt Chassis. He is 311 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 6: a man who has spent his well much of his 312 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 6: professional life at least in Africa, living in Africa for 313 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 6: about eight years, working in and on issues of great 314 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 6: importance to the continent in his capacity as an executive 315 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 6: of the Persecution Project outfit founded by a great friend 316 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 6: of mine and well rational figure I think in the 317 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 6: Conservative movement, Brad Phillips, we are very pleased to have 318 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 6: him with us to talk about an important development in 319 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 6: US African relations that we're going to explore whether it 320 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 6: might be a tipping point for a kind of new 321 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 6: approach on the part of the Trump administration to a 322 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 6: continent of well, frankly surpassing importance. Don't take my word 323 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 6: for it. The Chinese Communist Party thinks it is of 324 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 6: surpassing importance and has got its hooks into most of 325 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 6: the nations of that continent in the form of its 326 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 6: Belt and Road Initiative or other well very ominous relationships. 327 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 6: We're going to talk to Matt first about the country 328 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 6: of South Africa and the appointment as the US ambassador 329 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 6: there of an old friend and another very esteemed pre 330 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 6: eminent figure in the conservative movement, and I'm going to 331 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 6: allow him to set the stage for that conversation about 332 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 6: Ambassador Brent Bozell and what he might open up in 333 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 6: the way of new opportunities not only in the Tip 334 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 6: of Africa, but also across that immense continent. Matt, thank 335 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 6: you for joining us. Thank you for the work that 336 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 6: you and Bratt Phillips have been doing for so long 337 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 6: to try to lift up persecuted Christians especially, and to 338 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 6: lay out a different approach to the region and its 339 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 6: people than we've been following for far too long. Tell 340 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 6: us a little bit about Brent's arrival and its implication. 341 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 7: Sir, Well, thank you, Frank. It's always a pleasure to 342 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 7: speak with you. Thank you for the work that you 343 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 7: do and just raising the awareness level of Americans to 344 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 7: these regional threats, these global threats that we face. Africa 345 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 7: is a continent of mystery for Americans. For American policy, 346 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 7: we really haven't had a very coherent, consistent policy for Africa. 347 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 7: We've always allowed our policy to be impacted and influenced 348 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 7: and directed sometimes by other regional allies that we have, 349 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 7: and so America, because of Africa's traditional non significance in 350 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 7: our in our economic policy, we tended to ignore it. 351 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 7: But we can't ignore it any longer. 352 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: We have. 353 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 7: A situation where this continent is becoming increasingly consequential in 354 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 7: global affairs, and it's going to continue in the decades 355 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 7: to come. 356 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: To just give us a little bit of the reason 357 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: why you talking with me off air about some of 358 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: the demographics, which are. 359 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 7: Just Africa is going to win by default in many 360 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 7: respects because right now there's about a billion and a 361 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 7: half people on the continent. Within twenty five years we're 362 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 7: going to see probably another billion added to that. So 363 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 7: you're going to have a situation where in Africa the 364 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 7: working age population is going to be greater in twenty 365 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 7: five years than India and China combined. Now you recall 366 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 7: Frank very well. That you know, twenty five thirty years 367 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 7: ago everyone was talking about the Asian century that was coming. Well, 368 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 7: that's just that may have played out in the first 369 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 7: few decades, but on the second half of this century 370 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 7: that is not going to be the case. We're seeing it. 371 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 7: For example, I think in Japan, I read somewhere that 372 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 7: they sold more adult diapers than children's diapers last year. 373 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 7: And when you look by the by the year twenty fifty, 374 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 7: I think the average age Japan is projected to be 375 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 7: over fifty three years old. In China's going to be 376 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 7: off fifty. Even India is going to show a little 377 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 7: gray it's going to be around forty. In Africa. 378 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 6: Well, but interestingly enough, Matt, as you know, in China, 379 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 6: it's not just that they're going to be an aging population. 380 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 6: Is they're going to be a fraction of its present. 381 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 7: Number exactly what they're going to lose million estimates. 382 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 6: They're going to have, yeah, a population the size of ours, 383 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 6: for heaven's sakes. So beyond the demographics, it's a continent 384 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 6: rich with resources exactly opportunities for exploiting them and making money. 385 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 6: And so for all these reasons, it's going to be 386 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 6: a place we have vital, vital interests in. But talk 387 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 6: to me a little bit about Brent Bozell and. 388 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: His sort of. 389 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 6: Well his credentials, I guess one might say, but also 390 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 6: the kinds of things that you expect might be possible 391 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 6: in South Africa, arguably the most important single country of 392 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 6: entire continent. 393 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 7: Well, just to set the stage, South Africa is presently 394 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 7: our largest trading partner on the continent, has been for 395 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 7: some time, and so it kind of acts as a 396 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 7: canary in the coal mine for a lot of a 397 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 7: lot of things with regarding American policy. And I I 398 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 7: see that Brent Bosell's appointment is going to be very, 399 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 7: very influential because he came out of the blue. Nobody 400 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 7: expected this appointment. And I think that Donald Trump just 401 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 7: didn't pull the name out of a hat. I think 402 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 7: he was very selective in who he chose for this role. 403 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 7: And I think that Trump, being a very media savvy president, 404 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 7: he understands the the the the the importance of messaging. 405 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 7: Because I don't know if you hear that train in 406 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 7: the background, but I'm near I'm near the t I'm 407 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 7: on the other side of the track. So to speak. 408 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 7: I've always been on the other side of. 409 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 6: The tracks, but hope it's right side either way. 410 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 7: Ye, yes, yes, exactly. Well, Brent Bozell has been in 411 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 7: the arena of media his whole professional life. Practically he 412 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 7: started the Media Research Center, which tracks bias in the media. 413 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 7: So he understands that we've been in a cold war 414 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 7: for a long time, but it's changed and now it's 415 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 7: an information war. And I think Trump understands that very 416 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 7: well as president, and he chose someone who understands this 417 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 7: new war that we're in and in a very difficult 418 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 7: diplomatic post that it would be South Africa right now, 419 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 7: a country that Trump has a lot of personal interest in, 420 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 7: which is also an interesting topic why he would care. 421 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 7: I think he made his choice intentionally, someone who he 422 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 7: could trust, someone who is a movement conservative, someone who's 423 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 7: an old Cold warrior, if you will, but who understands 424 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 7: the new nature of this battle. And so I think 425 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 7: I think it was a very strategic and very wise 426 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 7: pick for this country, which is the sort of the 427 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 7: Canary and the coal mine for what we could see 428 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 7: in US policy and the rest of the continent. 429 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that policy. Approach 430 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 6: that you would recommend based on your experience there, particularly 431 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 6: in Sudan and countries like it. 432 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 7: Sure, yes, well, I think that that we have to 433 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 7: when we look at Africa, we have to realize that 434 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 7: so much of the continent was put together by European powers, 435 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 7: you know, more than a century ago, and so when 436 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 7: we look at the geographic lines in Africa, they were 437 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 7: not drawn by Africans. Most of them were not drawn 438 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 7: by Africans. And so you have what we would call 439 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 7: nations when you look at it on a map, but 440 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 7: there's actually but they're more like regions, and there are 441 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 7: nations within those regions. And so I think that if 442 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 7: in the future we need to recognize that and stop 443 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 7: trying to treat them as these these contiguous, homogenized entities 444 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 7: when they actually are not, and they have different people, 445 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 7: different languages, different cultures, and different interests and different foreign alignments. 446 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 7: And so I think that America's policy going forward in 447 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 7: Africa should be to identify our natural allies that are 448 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 7: within these regions, these sub national groups that you're going 449 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 7: to find in South Africa, that you're going to find 450 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 7: in places like Sudan. Too often we're given the choice 451 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 7: between one Islamist or another Islamist leader in Sudan, for instance, 452 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 7: when we really don't need to be making we don't 453 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 7: that that doesn't even need to be on our radar. 454 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 7: We need to be finding a pro American, pro Western 455 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 7: interest in these regions, and they do exist, and we 456 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 7: need to be investing in those, need to be making 457 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 7: deals with those, We need to be making treaties with those. 458 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 7: We need to be treating these sub national groups as 459 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 7: as partners and not having this sort of one size 460 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 7: fits all uhs and assuming that we have to accept 461 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 7: what was created one hundred and forty years ago at 462 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 7: the Berlin conference, so that I think that that's a 463 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 7: start that we need to. 464 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 6: Change colonial detritus. Yeah, exactly, you're absolutely right, actly, And 465 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 6: and what do you say, Matt, And we've got just 466 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 6: a minute or so left, But what do you say 467 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 6: to people who argue, well, we can't be about, you know, 468 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 6: breaking up nations. There are in many cases people to 469 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 6: work with there. But what's your proposition? 470 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 7: Well, we don't need to be about breaking up nations. 471 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 7: We just need to realize that there are there are 472 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 7: these elements within these nations that we need to we 473 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 7: need to deal with we need, we need to not 474 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 7: be afraid of reaching out and being a little unorthodox 475 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 7: in our in our approach to these subnational groups within 476 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 7: African nations. And and I think we have an opportunity 477 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 7: in places like su Dan to do that in the 478 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 7: New Buta Mountains where Brad Phillips and I work in 479 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 7: South Africa, among the people of say the Western Cape, 480 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 7: which are far more US aligned. The Afrikaans community again 481 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 7: very much US aligned. And I think someone like Brent Bozell, 482 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,719 Speaker 7: who hasn't had an experience in Africa, can come in 483 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,959 Speaker 7: with fresh with fresh eyes. He's sort of Tabila raza 484 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 7: blank slate. He's going to look at all the options 485 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 7: and not accept the status quo. And I think that 486 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 7: that's what we really need right now. Don't accept the 487 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 7: status quo. That's Donald Trump. He doesn't accept the status quo. 488 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 7: He's he's reshuffling the deck. He's clear that he said, Okay, 489 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 7: what what makes sense for America going forward? And I 490 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:46,719 Speaker 7: think that's what we need. 491 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 6: America first, America. Jessa, we so appreciate your time, your expertise. 492 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 6: There's so much more to talk about. We are going 493 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 6: to be lifting up Africa as a major focus of 494 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 6: this program, and we look forward to doing so with 495 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 6: your great help. Thank you for the work you and 496 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 6: Brad doing. As I say, thank you very MUCHATI project. 497 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 6: Keep an eye on it, folks, It's vitally important. Keep 498 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 6: an eye on us. We're going to be right back 499 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 6: with Rod Martin. Stay tuned. We're back, and so is 500 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 6: Rod Martin, the chairman of the board of the Institute 501 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 6: for the American Future, which makes this program possible. We 502 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,959 Speaker 6: could not be more grateful to him for his leadership 503 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 6: of that organization and for so much it else, including 504 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 6: what he is now doing as the proprietor of Rodmartin 505 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 6: dot org, where you can find the Rod Martin Report. 506 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 6: It is an extraordinarily resource full platform, and I am 507 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 6: proud to say he's featured our program in our interviews 508 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 6: with him on it in many ways, and we're grateful 509 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 6: for him doing so as well. Rod. It's a very 510 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 6: important moment to be taking stock with you and your 511 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 6: free range mind. One. A great day on Tuesday for 512 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 6: the republic or the Republicans for that matter, and perhaps 513 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 6: most especially for Donald Trump. Give us your read on 514 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 6: what went down in particularly New York City as well 515 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 6: as Virginia and New Jersey most especially well. 516 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 8: In typical political fashion, I'm going to argue both sides 517 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 8: of this. So the headline is blue candidates win in 518 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 8: blue states. You know, there's no getting around that. We 519 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 8: don't have any business winning in those three places. We 520 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 8: certainly weren't going to win the initiative in California. There 521 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,479 Speaker 8: was never any chance of that. So you know, on 522 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 8: a certain level, we shouldn't be that surprised. Now getting 523 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 8: a little more micro and thinking about the future, Donald 524 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 8: Trump made a big point of the fact that, you know, 525 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 8: maybe we lost because he wasn't on the ballot. Well, 526 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 8: the problem is he's never going to be on a 527 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 8: ballot ever again. So Republicans have to get their act 528 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 8: together in the absence of Trump at the top of 529 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 8: the ticket. And I think that we're on track for 530 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 8: that with JD. Vance or even Ronda Santa or Ted Cruz, 531 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 8: but probably Vance. I think we've got a good bench. 532 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 8: Marco Rubio certainly possible. You know, these guys can lead, 533 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 8: and I think they can sell in Pennsylvania and Michigan 534 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 8: and so forth. I also think that we're looking at 535 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 8: a decent future in in maybe maybe not Virginia, probably 536 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 8: New Jersey, because we're making some real ground there in 537 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 8: a number of ways on the ground, and that's a long, slow, 538 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,399 Speaker 8: tedious process. But the Democrats have done it to us, 539 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 8: taking over California, taking over Colorado. We've done it to 540 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 8: them taking over the entire South and now winning the 541 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 8: so called Blue Wall at least twice. So clearly things change. 542 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 8: They aren't static. We shouldn't look at it from just 543 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 8: election to election. However, in the immediate term, we clearly 544 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 8: didn't turn our base out in this election at all. 545 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 8: We had terrible turnout numbers on the right. The left 546 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 8: was thoroughly motivated. That could easily carry over into next year. 547 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,879 Speaker 8: So I want to echo Newt Gingrich's take on that 548 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 8: we took way too long to pass the One Big, 549 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 8: Beautiful Bill Act. It means that we're going to start 550 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 8: getting the real boom that comes from that later in 551 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 8: the year next year than we'd like. If we screwed 552 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 8: that up, we're going to lose the House, maybe the Senate, 553 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 8: and in the process, Donald Trump is going to spend 554 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 8: the rest of his presidency fighting off impeachment attempts versus 555 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 8: if we win, we can actually finish the counter revolution 556 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 8: and we have a glide path into twenty eight. 557 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 6: Well, that is a hopeful rendering of it. I take it. 558 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 6: You do not associate yourself with those who think Donald 559 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 6: Trump can somehow run again Trump twenty eight, as some 560 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 6: of our our friends are saying, not in the cards. 561 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 8: Are some of our friends are trolling the left, which 562 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 8: is an which is a permanent pastime for many of us, 563 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 8: and I don't mind it at all. What they're doing 564 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 8: is they're sucking up airtime that could be going to 565 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 8: real issues where the president could be getting attacked, and 566 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 8: instead pushing this fantasy that he's somehow going to be 567 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,439 Speaker 8: a dictator for life. It's just not going. 568 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: To keep king. 569 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 8: I think it's not going to happen. 570 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, unconstitutional and any change that would be super superbly hard. 571 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 6: So Rod, in terms of it's kind of the bottom line, 572 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 6: do you sense that the Republicans under Donald Trump have 573 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 6: what it takes to make the kinds of course corrections 574 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 6: that will motivate their base that will result in at 575 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 6: least a fighting chance in the midterms to hold on 576 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 6: to control. And to that point, how about all this 577 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 6: redistricting business. Is that going to make it more likely 578 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 6: they do well. 579 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 8: I think the redistricting effort is key, and I would 580 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 8: feel bad about that if it weren't that. The Democrats 581 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 8: have already completely jerrymandered every state they control. And that's 582 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 8: the real joke of Prop. Fifty. In California, forty two 583 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 8: percent of the state is Republican, and the Republicans have 584 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 8: seventeen percent of the congressional districts, and you're going to 585 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 8: take a few more away, Well, whooped de do versus 586 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 8: We could probably pick up five, maybe seven in Texas, 587 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 8: depending on how hardball they want to play. We can 588 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 8: definitely pick up seats in Florida. We can pick up 589 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 8: seats in a number of red states, and that starts 590 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 8: defeating the structural advantage they've been They've built in for 591 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 8: themselves through fraud. And I'm sorry what they've been doing 592 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 8: with districting is a form of fraud. But padding the 593 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 8: electoral roles, or at least the census rolls with twenty 594 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 8: million illegal aliens boosts their House seats and their electoral 595 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 8: votes unconscionably. That has to be overturned. And the way 596 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 8: you do that is mass deportations with prosecutions of public 597 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 8: officials who aid and a bet criminal illegals, and that's coming. 598 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 8: And of course you actually treat politics as the hardball 599 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 8: contact sport that it is, and you district properly in 600 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 8: the states we control. 601 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think to your larger point, excuse me, 602 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 6: and to your larger point, Rod, the Democrats have shown 603 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 6: the way here. As understand that there are no Republican 604 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 6: House members from New England the entire place. There are 605 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 6: certainly Republicans there, maybe not a whole lot, but they're 606 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 6: not represented at all. And California Republicans and some of 607 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 6: those in other blue states are going to be less 608 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 6: and less resent represented as well. So game on, I 609 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 6: guess is the question how much? But it does sound 610 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 6: to me as you say, it could make a profound difference, 611 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,919 Speaker 6: especially if the Republicans don't get their act together, and 612 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 6: I'm praying that they will. And right quick, Rob, we 613 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 6: have to take a short break. We're going to come 614 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,439 Speaker 6: back and we're going to talk trade with you and 615 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 6: some of its manifestations under Donald Trump. Stay tuned. We're back, 616 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 6: and so is Rod Morton, one of our regulars here 617 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 6: at Securing America. I'm pleased to say a man who 618 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 6: brings to the party a wealth of experience, going back 619 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 6: to his time working on policy matters with Governor Mike Huckabee, 620 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 6: now the wonderful US Ambassador to Israel. He was with 621 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 6: Peter Teal at the inception of PayPal. He has been 622 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 6: an entrepreneur and businessman, and now he is a pundit. 623 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 6: You can follow his great output at Rodmartin dot org 624 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 6: and subscribe to the Rod Martin Report. There. Rod, we 625 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 6: want to talk trade tariffs in particular, not least because 626 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 6: the US Supreme Court had a very important hearing on 627 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 6: a case basically saying the president has succeeded as authority 628 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 6: and is infringing upon that of the legislative branch. What 629 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 6: did you make of the lines of questioning and what 630 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 6: does your crystal ball tell you about how the court 631 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 6: is going to rule in this case. 632 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 8: Well, first, on a philosophical level, it's important to understand 633 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 8: that the Democrats speak with forked tongue as usual. They 634 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 8: were perfectly happy for presidents to have basically unilateral authority 635 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 8: to impose tariffs for the entire last century, and their 636 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 8: presidents repeatedly imposed tariffs wherever they thought it good and 637 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 8: proper to do so, so they're just lying. And on 638 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 8: the right, we have a lot of people who have 639 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 8: completely bought the unalloyed, uncaveated, unnuanced version of the libertarian 640 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 8: position on tariffs that they are purely at tax on 641 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 8: the consumer. Well, I just had this discussion about our 642 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:34,240 Speaker 8: effort to abolish property taxes here in Florida. I don't 643 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 8: have to buy any particular thing at any particular time, 644 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 8: and we have a bunch of sales tax holidays in Florida. 645 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 8: So if we hike sales tax to the moon in Florida, 646 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,479 Speaker 8: we've got one hundred and forty three million tourists a year. 647 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 8: That's almost double the number for California and New York combined. 648 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,000 Speaker 8: We're going to end up taxing a bunch of non 649 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 8: citizens to pay for our pretty row and lovely colleges 650 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,560 Speaker 8: and so forth. And we're going to stop forcing widows 651 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,919 Speaker 8: who paid off their home thirty years ago to pay 652 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 8: rent to the government. Well, tariffs are the same. I 653 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 8: don't have to buy a Mercedes that was built in Germany. 654 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,240 Speaker 8: I can buy a Mercedes that was built in South 655 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,879 Speaker 8: Carolina and there's zero tariff on that. I don't have 656 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 8: to buy a Nissan from Japan, I can buy one 657 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 8: from Tennessee. And that's the thing. From time immemorial, as 658 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 8: far back as you want to go, the courts have 659 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 8: traditionally held that the tariff power is part of the 660 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 8: commerce power, not the taxing power. And Brett Kavanaugh made 661 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 8: a good point of that yesterday. That was helpful. The 662 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 8: truth of the matter is foreign policy powers overlap between 663 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,320 Speaker 8: the legislative and the executive. The legislative branch delegated tariff 664 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 8: making authority to the president starting with the Trade Act 665 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 8: of nineteen thirty, updated and expanded it with the Trade 666 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 8: Act of nineteen seventy four. I mean, that's almost my 667 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 8: entire lifetime on the second one, it's double my lifetime 668 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 8: on the first. And there's no question that that has 669 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 8: been seen as constitutional all of these many decades, low 670 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 8: nearly a century. So why would it be unconstitutional now? 671 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 8: And when you get into the argument in the particular 672 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 8: Act that Trump is using, it's very clear that Congress 673 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,440 Speaker 8: intended to blanket grant of authority over trade. So we 674 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 8: have to recognize trade as being part of the president's 675 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 8: foreign policy toolkit, and we should ask exactly what the 676 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 8: Solicitor General ask why do the others Why does the 677 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 8: other side think that the president should have total authority 678 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,840 Speaker 8: to completely abolish all foreign trade whatsoever, but can't impose 679 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 8: a one percent tariff? And I mean, it's just a heard. 680 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 6: It doesn't mean it's let me just ask it this point. 681 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 6: You have trained as a lawyer, so I know this 682 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 6: is something you have a special ability to penetrate. But 683 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 6: my impression was watching a bit of this proceeding that 684 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 6: it seems it turns very much on this question of 685 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 6: whether this is about raising revenues, whether this is a 686 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 6: form of taxation rather than a trade power, which clearly 687 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 6: resides with the executive branch. Am I right about that? 688 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 6: And did particularly you know, Emmy Komby Barrett's line of 689 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 6: questioning suggests that there may be a majority going against 690 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 6: the president on this, and what would the implications of 691 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 6: that be run? 692 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 8: And yet she seemed quite open to the argument that 693 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 8: a tariff is a license, that they're economically indistinguishable, and 694 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 8: the president clearly has power to impose licensing requirements and 695 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 8: that includes fees, which is the point that was being made. 696 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 8: So it really I think not. 697 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,839 Speaker 6: For the purposes of raising money. But that is the 698 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:07,800 Speaker 6: practical effect. 699 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 8: Well, that is the practical effect, and I think what 700 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 8: you end up with ultimately, First of all, there's the 701 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 8: political dimension. The three liberal justices are not going to 702 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 8: vote with us period. Then among the conservatives you have 703 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 8: to decide is a tariff more attax or is a 704 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,320 Speaker 8: tariff more a license? Is it more in the commerce 705 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 8: power or is it more in the taxing power? And 706 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 8: of course you'll recall John Roberts found that Obamacare was 707 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 8: principally a tax to uphold it. If he were to 708 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,279 Speaker 8: find that something that has historically been seen to not 709 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,320 Speaker 8: be a tax is one to knock down Donald Trump's 710 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 8: entire foreign policy, that would be the height of absurdity, 711 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,399 Speaker 8: not to mention hypocrisy. 712 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 6: Well, and the other piece of this, of course, rod is, 713 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 6: as you know, the President has not through taxation, but 714 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,240 Speaker 6: through licensing and fees and the like, raised an enormous 715 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 6: amount of money. I mean, some estimates are a trillion 716 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 6: dollars perhaps, and that money would presumably have to be 717 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 6: paid back. There's a lot of angst about how you 718 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,080 Speaker 6: would even go about doing that, certainly doing it in 719 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:25,080 Speaker 6: a way that wouldn't further compound our financial circumstances. What 720 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 6: are your thoughts on that, sir, Well, that factor into 721 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:28,720 Speaker 6: their thinking, do you think in the court? 722 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,600 Speaker 8: Oh yeah, beart An Alito pressed on that pretty hard. 723 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,280 Speaker 8: And of course, in the process of that, Alito brought 724 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,239 Speaker 8: up brought up the Trade Act of nineteen seventy I'm sorry, 725 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 8: of nineteen thirty in a really important way. And you 726 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,759 Speaker 8: know that has never been overruled. It's been on the 727 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 8: books for ninety five years for having's sake, and it 728 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:56,840 Speaker 8: gives the president effectively unfettered authority to do anything he 729 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 8: wants to do in the tariff space up to a 730 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 8: limit of fifty So, okay, can Trump work within that? Yeah? Probably, 731 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 8: And so he said, look, we probably have to look 732 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,280 Speaker 8: at all of these provisions together. If we're going to rule. 733 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,240 Speaker 6: On this, that's almost certainly going to be the case. 734 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 6: Let's hope the court will do so, thank you, Rod Martin. 735 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 6: We have to leave it at that for the moment. 736 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 6: There's a lot more to talk about. Come back to 737 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 6: us next week if you would, we'll be hocking. I'm 738 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,759 Speaker 6: hoping to you the rest of you next time. Until then, 739 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 6: I hope you'll go forth and multiply