WEBVTT - Bolsonaro Trumps Brazil Pt. 2 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:04.440 You're listening to waiting on reparations for production of I 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:13.840 Heart Radio. Uh from port a Fellow NTY. The people love, Angory, 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.960 the hungry, the marching, the pushback on fascism, saying that 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.200 democracy watching the president and talk to you, don't walk through. 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.680 He jokes about raping the nieces, thousands of working class 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.040 people deceased from deceases, for rested lands where the trees 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.320 left the crease, and we got to defeat him by 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.639 vote or impeachment. And so day in the streets in 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.000 the capital where when all the masks and weaping flash 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.680 into the basket, goes by the parliament or by the ballot, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.080 doesn't matter. All that matters is banding together. So we 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:44.760 see the fascist fall. What's happening? What's good? People? I'm 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.920 dope knife, I'm little Franca and we are waiting our reparations. 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.720 You know what it is? Hey me my money? Hurry 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.560 a hell up with that? How are you doing? I 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.920 am fine. I just got out of city hall. Uh. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:00:59.840 You know, I feel like we had a good meeting. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:06.320 Declared Columbus Day, Indigenous People's Day. Uh, so fucking fuck 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:10.560 you Columbus, burning in hell right now? Your day is 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.720 over and it is now Indigenous People's day here and 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:19.120 change probably a lot um. It was funny because in 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.640 our resolution that we passed, it's like, oh, we're gonna 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:25.360 seek ways to govern with like, you know, the ancestral 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.120 knowledge of the indigenous people whose lands has belonged to 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:31.040 I'm just right up with my colleagues. I was like, yeah, 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.480 if y'all want to do that, maybe we should consider 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:38.080 giving the land back. Yeah, like because think about it, okay, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.080 because I've been studying land back a little bit, like 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.120 as a movement, and it's public lands. It's not like 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.600 all of the white people and black people when Mescan 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.080 people like in there, like the homes they owned and 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.440 their condos or whatever, we're gonna give their condo to 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.960 like the muscoge It's it's all. It's about public lands. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:58.720 So I'm like, you know what, why don't we just 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.000 give Why do we give them the park? Give him 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.800 the parks? Because like and got all these old white 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:05.840 people here in the commission Mey're like, oh, well, we'll 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:13.520 put up signs. I'm mom, I'm according the podcast. My 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.600 mom's here. She's looking out for the baby, making herself 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:23.480 a drink. Making yourself a drink. She's leaving. Now, just 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.919 start over. You gonna keep that keep going, Okay, I 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:35.000 have to keep it. A umm oh, I feel like 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.080 I'm back in toil again, Like oh ruined my prom night? Anyway? 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.080 Uh yeah, and her generational living got to normalize it 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:47.720 as millennials and Gen Z become increasingly economically precarious living 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:52.200 with our parents, can't afford fucking rent anyway, kind of 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.480 things that are I'm sorry to me to cut you off. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.320 What's up now? I was just speaking of the things 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.960 that are your multi gen generational or changing amongst the generations. 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.880 You know, we're of the Internet generation in particular, were 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:12.160 like the that millennial age that's like the last of 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:16.040 the people who were alive and kicking before the Internet 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:20.120 took over the world. Yeah, I don't like, I wouldn't 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.640 say I remember life before the Internet, like distinctly. I 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.840 remember when I when I first got the Internet, but 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.800 I don't have very distinct memories from before that. Okay, 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.240 I was like seven or something when I first like 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:35.800 logged onto a O L or something. Yeah. Okay, so 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.440 see I'm I'm I'm I'm older than you. So yeah, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.880 and I definitely remember, yeah, because for a long time. 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.720 I Mean, the thing is, it's hard for me to 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:53.480 remember what it was now, but like I remember that 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:55.560 I lived through it, you know what I mean. So 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.920 it's like I wasn't old enough that I was dry 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:05.160 been anywhere personally looking at map quests and stuff like that. 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.920 But I'm young enough to remember when people have to 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.600 use like map quests, when that was first becoming a 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.920 thing before GPS and even before map quest, when people 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.200 have to use like regular maps and stuff like that. 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.159 Like I remember going on road trips with my parents 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.040 when they have to use like regular maps because you 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.240 couldn't just look stuff up, and when you have to 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:27.320 use a thesaurus in a dictionary, and like encyclopedia is 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.159 like actual encyclopedia is not. I'll never forget when I 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.960 was on tour at one time, both me I like 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:38.839 shattered my tour manager's phone into a pool of water. 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.560 Not only did I smash the screen, I smashed it 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.440 into pool of water and mine got lost in Newberg, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.359 New York. So like we were confronted with like how 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.520 do we find figure out how to get home? And 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.520 like how novel it was to look up the directions 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:54.479 and write it down on the back of an envelope 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:56.680 and like, I hope we don't miss a turn, and 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.960 then like it felt so like magical and renegade and 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:06.240 just anachronistic. Well, we only bring it out just because 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.680 of the revelations about Facebook that have come up, you know, 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.359 the whole social media thing. That's definitely something that you know, 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.800 older generations and haven't had to deal with obviously. But 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.760 it was reported through a leaker that Facebook had known 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:27.880 how harmful Facebook and Instagram were two young users, and 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.120 not only did they conceal that information, but they actually 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.120 tried to get rid of that information. They knew that 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:40.640 their algorithm was making teenage girls uh like suicidal and 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.799 having eating disorders. Like they knew this to be true 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:48.920 and did not do and they just continued to prioritize 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.400 profit over the mental health of the whole generation. In 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:56.440 a nutshell, what their their own research concluded was that 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.000 facebooks it has to have its business model has to 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:06.640 be on polarization and spreading hatred because the more angry 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.560 that people are I guess, I don't know this is how. 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.280 This is what they figured out. The more angry that 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.599 people are then the longer they spent on Facebook, the 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.320 longer they spent on Facebook, the more likely they are 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.960 to click and add. When they click and add, Facebook 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.120 gets money. So they made you know what I mean, 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.880 at the risk of I guess this is a public 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.520 health thing, right, at the risk of public health. They 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.200 chose the profit margins over the good of the people. 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.240 And then and then on top of that, a few 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.760 days later, you know, the whole ship just gonna like crash, 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.320 like out the blue, like we're yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:47.400 I'm sure that was an accident there, like doing something quick. 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:52.360 Look over here, child, Yeah that I mean to demand 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.640 behind the curtain, they could have tried to be a 0:06:55.680 --> 0:07:01.120 little bit more. I don't less obvious that that is. 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.200 That's like some movie ship right there. It's like, oh 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.200 my god, the leaker came out. It was either a 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.520 distraction or was totally like taking my ball and going home, like, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:13.440 oh really, you guys are gonna call us out for 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.520 making teen girls suicidal. Well, I guess I guess we'll 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.480 just take away Facebook. Then, I guess you just can't 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.520 have it if you don't appreciate what you have. Well, earlier, 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.000 we were talking about how much money Mark Zuckerberg lost 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:30.040 you even though the point that you were making is 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.760 like seven billion dollars to him, ain't nothing that's true. 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:39.000 But I don't think I don't think most people are 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.360 willing to lose seven billion dollars just to do some 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.440 Nena na boo bu ship you know what I mean. 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.040 I think I think it was much more like, oh 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.000 my god, the documents have come out, what do we do? Yeah, 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:53.600 the shadowy figures that like control Zuckerberg's limbs via like 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.600 satellite or whatever and like make his face to human 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.440 facial expressions, sat them down there, Like, look, bro, can 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.040 I take this out? We have to continue to extract 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:08.120 profit out of the suffering of children. I mean, people 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:14.040 realize that it's happening so well. The thing is, Facebook 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:19.800 has to be one of the biggest, most powerful companies 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:24.920 to ever have existed in the history. If you, I mean, 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:30.320 if like if companies that are far smaller than Facebook 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.800 have existed over the years and have like just from 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.480 the sheer greed and from the from the sheer like 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.559 implicit greed that that's there with like a corporate structure. 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.160 You know what I'm saying, They've reached havoc on generations 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.080 of the world. What the funk do y'all really think 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.280 the like most powerful one out of those in the 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.920 history of humanity is gonna do you know what I'm saying, 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.920 Like like, this is just this ship because it's been 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.640 leak The book hasn't been written on what the fun 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.920 Facebook is doing or what they're gonna be responsible for. 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.520 So stay tuned on that ship. This is just some 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.559 surface ship. Going back to the nanny Nannie Boo boo hypothesis, However, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.120 I mean this picture also Mark Zuckerberg, like riben a 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.680 fat line in his office like, yeah, shut it all down. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.120 What do you mean, sir? Yes said shut it all down, sir, 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:30.000 You'll lose billions of dollars. I can fu dude. If 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.720 they don't appreciate me, they will see And it's just 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:38.960 like line after line, no shirt on. That's the social 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:46.120 network version of So I don't know, Nannie booboo is 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:53.760 still plausible. That's the Jesse Eisenberg Zuckerberg, that berg Berg 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:59.440 an never Berg connected. Wow, Oh yeah, what's the what else? Yeah? 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.120 What else with your Oh yoh me. I'm I've got 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.160 this single that I got coming out soon. I finally 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.520 made the Hometown Joint, you know what I'm saying. I 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.679 got the Savannah the Savannah Joint. So, you know, like 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:18.800 the thing is, I'm just now it's like I've been 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.640 doing the whole thing independent for a while, but the 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.880 last few projects that I've done have been with like 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.160 small indie labels, you know what I'm saying. So in 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.280 a way, it's kind of like I'm out of the 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:35.160 loop of like consistently releasing my own music on my own. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:36.840 I mean, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be working with 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:38.800 the label for the album, but like I just wanted 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.199 to put out just some random songs leading up to it. 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.280 So right now I'm in the process of like you know, 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.440 it's almost like I'm starting from scratch, like I'm a 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.040 new artist. It's like, oh man, all right, I gotta 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.640 get get in on this TikTok thing. All right, let 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.800 me start doing Let's start making TikTok videos and ship 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:57.640 and oh man, I guess I have to start paying 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.280 more attention to my Instagram show. So I'm going through 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.960 a lot of emotions. A lot of that is you know, 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.120 like a learning experience in a way for me. So 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:11.080 it's like it's added a layer of I guess, invigoration, 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.559 because you know, I don't like doing ship unless I 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:15.520 can get good at it. So it's one of those 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.240 things same. Oh my god, we're the same. I don't like, like, 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.560 I don't like playing board games with people, like only Scrabble, 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.840 because I could dominate everything. I know how to play 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.360 exactly every chess. I have to learn the rules of 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.120 new game, and you're gonna beat me the first five 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:33.160 times that, like the I saw I got out of 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.240 gaming and stuff. Whenever like any of my friends like, yo, 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.600 let's play Call of Duty, I'm like, bet, let's get it. 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.760 I'm like pulling out the version from like two thousand 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.240 and eight. They're looking at me, like, yo, what you're doing. 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.880 I was like, no, I can't, I can't do it. 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.679 But anyway, Yeah, so I'm doing that whole thing with 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.200 the song and stuff. And you know that we're gonna 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.240 be hearing more about that in November because that's when 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.240 it's coming out. I don't want to bother teasing it now, 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:01.800 but to let people know that there is new music 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.360 coming out and um yeah, so what we got going 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:07.160 on today on the show. So today on the show, 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.800 we're gonna go on to part two, continuation of our 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.439 topic from last week, discussing the rise of fascism potential 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:19.800 for a coup in Brazil with UM writer researcher author 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.120 of the new book The End of the End of History. 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:27.000 Alex Hoculey was based in Sal Paulo, Brazil, and UH 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.679 has written on the topic of UM. You know Brazilian 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.520 fascism and you know that it's threats to democracy for 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.800 Jackoman and other outlets. So after the jump, we'll be 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.240 getting into it with Alex, and then afterwards we'll be 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.360 coming back to talk a little bit about other manifestations 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:48.280 of of of political unrest and hip hop UM with 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.680 a couple of artists at are Real Dope. So stay 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:52.839 tuned for that. Any ready, let's get it and go. 0:12:53.960 --> 0:13:03.520 Let's go. So today I'm excited to be joined by 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.960 Alex Hoculey, UM writer and researcher based in South Polo, 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.000 host of the Bunk of Cast podcast and author of 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.120 the recent book The End of the End of History 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.040 here to talk to us a little bit about UM, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.800 the anti Bosonaro protests that took place over the weekend, 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.160 as well as just the general context in which they're Um, 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.920 they've taken place. So Alex, how are you today? I'm 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.120 I'm reasonably well, thank you. Yeah, it's a bit chilly 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.640 here in in some Follo. We're not fully out of 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:33.040 winter yet, but I'm really yeah yeah. Um, is it 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.480 rain a lot in South Polo. It rained a ton 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.080 when I lived in port Olegry, just like all the time. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.680 It's super clue me. It depends what your standards are. 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.679 I used to live in London, so by contrast, and 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.560 Polo doesn't rain very much. No, all right, well let's 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.240 get into it. Um. Let's start off. I'd love to 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.840 hear um about how it went over the weekend. We 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:54.800 talked a little bit last week in the lead up 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.600 to this episode, UM that there would be some anti 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.600 Bosonaro protests across for the in response to the Pro 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.800 Bowlsonario protests I took place in September. So what was 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.439 the turnout and what was the coalition like industry. It's well, 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.280 I mean I was here in some follow I still am, 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.680 and I'd gone along to the protests on Sunday and 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.840 these were set up to be the first big anti 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.680 Bolsonado protests on the left, and that's an important qualification 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.560 on the left for quite a while, for quite a 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.880 couple of months, since since around June or something was 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:32.680 the last one. UM. The turnout was decent, but at 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.320 the same time the protests lacked a bit of energy 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:41.520 and was strangely fragmented, based around uh, different activist groups 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.840 on the streets, different parties or for example, the student 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:51.440 unions or different trade unions, and so as a consequence, uh, 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.400 it maybe wasn't a kind of massive show of force 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.960 on the part of the left um in the way 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.120 that might have been expected. I think an important the 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:04.040 backdrop to this, and I guess the baseline against which 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.280 we compare these left wing protests have been recent protests 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.800 by the right. So on on September the seventh, and 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:12.760 I guess we'll come along, we'll come on to talk 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.880 a little bit more about that. But both there were 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:19.120 probol Snado protests, which was the biggest organized demonstration by 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.720 pro Bowls forces since he was elected in twenty eighteen, 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:27.400 and that one mobilized a hundred thousand plus people in 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:32.080 tom Pollo and in Brazilia the federal capital UM, but 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.520 not in other other state capitals and so that was 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.760 a big turnout, but obviously there was a huge amount 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.600 invested into that, both both kind of morally as well 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.880 as financially. Uh and so that was seen to be 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.280 a bit of a flaw. Then a couple of weeks 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:51.280 ago you had right wing anti BOLSNATO demonstrations. Um, if 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.880 you can do that. So they are groups who led 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.360 by groups like the Free Brazil movement for example, or 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.280 come to this Treats, which were groups that were formed 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:07.960 around to fight for the impeachment of the Workers Party 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.560 president at the time, Juma Hussat, something they ultimately succeeded 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.040 in in in pushing, albeit you know, with a lot 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.240 of parliamentary maneuvering that went on behind that to lead 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:23.800 to the parliamentary coup. Of these groups then, I mean, 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.720 if you were to ask them and if they had 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.200 to respond, honestly, I'm pretty sure all of them would 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:34.720 have voted for Bosonado. But they see themselves as more liberal, 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.800 I mean liberal, not in the American sense meaning left wing, 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.920 but liberal in the sense of economically liberal. Right, So 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.800 they're kind of neoliberal groups who don't identify with the 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:49.000 sort of uh more kind of culture war orientation of 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.680 Bosonado and maybe reject some of the more obvious or 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:57.280 naked authoritarianism. But you know, ultimately these are these are 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.120 these are both not East does with buyer's remorse, if 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:03.960 you want to put it that way. UM. And they 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.320 manage very small numbers, They manage very small numbers, and 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.959 I think that proves that that sort of politics just 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.840 has no base in Brazil today. And so all the 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.480 right wing who had previously been Antique Juma, who had 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.240 been anti workers party, voted for Bolsonado, and now the 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:25.879 electorate is pretty polarized between Bolsonado and uh looking and 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.840 the left then probably looking to vote Lula in in 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.639 in So in that context, you know, how did the 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.639 left wing protest do? It was okay, but it wasn't uh. 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.080 You know, it was still mainly the sort of activist 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:45.800 basis of different groups of different parties without real sort 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:50.199 of mass support. And so I think in some of 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.919 the coverage I was reading UM there were some UM 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.600 folks interviewed who were around for April ten, imagine eighty four, 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.080 and like sort of hoping that this moment could be 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.720 similar to that one UM in Brazil and that it 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.920 was a watershed moment for the end of the military dictatorship, 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:07.680 and so I was wondering what you might think the 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.480 potential impacts would be of this protest, though it did 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.679 not have perhaps the numbers, the show of force that 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.119 folks were hoping that it would. Yeah, I mean, it's 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.959 strange to kind of read the political temperature. I think 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.800 there's an element of, you know, we're a year away 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.359 from the election. There's an element maybe just of let's 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.720 just wait until the election. Bolsonarto looks pretty likely to lose, 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.680 you know, he's pulling it around in the first round. 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.720 Brasil has two rounds of presidential election, so the first 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.280 two front runners go to a second round if neither 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.920 achieves over and so Bolsono in the first round is 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.920 pulling and in the second round only round I e 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.879 showing he has a very hardcore base which is not 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.440 abandoning him and won't abandon him. But he's not able 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.840 to reach very far beyond that. I suspect when an 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.560 election comes he'll be able to reach a little bit further, 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:01.760 especially as it will be against Lula um former president 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.320 of the Workers Party, who is uh well, who's still 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.760 hated by you know, a section of a verity substantial 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:14.359 section of the population still, so I think the reality 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:20.520 is that the protests won't have kind of transformed anything, 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.199 and there's a sense of well still a sense of exhaustion, 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.720 you know, the brazil has and then this is an 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:32.640 important context had on the first kind of political level, 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:37.560 had waves of mobilization since which have been very important, 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:40.600 and there are sequences of protests one after the other, uh, 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:42.600 both on the left and then especially on the right. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.800 And there's maybe an element of just exhaustion that there 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.320 was a very intense period of five years of mobilive 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.040 stream mobilizations which has now been exhausted. Then you have 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.880 the pandemic. Then you have a severe economic crisis which 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.439 still continues. Brasil hasn't really recovered from the crisis of 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.080 and then on top of that you have the fact 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.360 that prices are rising pretty severely, so there's a lot 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.879 of inflation fuel and food price inflation, which is buying 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.480 really hard. You know, like having a barbecue and having 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.520 beef is a pretty big part of Brazilian culture and 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.439 you lived in the south there to yeah, but it's 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.080 big across the country, and you know, Brazilians aren't able 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:25.000 to beef now because or you know me people have 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:27.960 had to really cut their consumption of beef because prices 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.520 have written so much. But also chicken, pork, rice, beans, everything, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.280 all the staples, um, And so at the moment, there's 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:39.240 just a sense of like maybe kind of hunkering down. Um, 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.320 if you want to talk about kind of what could change, 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:45.440 if I want to you know, make some prognoses, UM. 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:47.920 I think one thing to keep an eye on in 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.840 terms of whether people will be driven to the streets, 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:53.680 whether there whether there will be some you know, real 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.520 anger against Bols rather than just a sense of slumping 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:00.159 towards the next election. There's the fact that Brazil is 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.600 facing possible blackouts, like rolling blackouts because there has been 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.119 a lot of drought, which means that the hydro power 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.920 plants don't have enough water and uh, and so they're 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.399 happy to depend on some sort of other energy sources. 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:15.080 And there looks like they'll have to be some sort 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.159 of rationing and blackouts. If that happens, that might be 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:20.119 a bit of a trigger and who knows where that 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.080 might lead. But I think it's worth you know, kind 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:25.560 of we tried to look across the rest of the continent. 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.680 And if you can see the sort of mass demonstrations 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.919 and uprisings you've had in Colombia, in Ecuador and in 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:36.080 Chile over the past two years, um one one, you know, 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.639 and all of those into different degrees driven by you know, 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.320 sudden increases and prices or in taxes and things like that, 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:50.720 it's not impossible that something similar happens in Brazil. Oh. 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.439 Sorry you it's snagged for a second, so it's just 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:58.360 pausing to let it catch up. Um. But um, in 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.760 your peace and um Jacobin, you said that a coup 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.760 is perhaps more likely than we herewd in the States 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.080 and the lead up to last year's presidential election, but 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:09.240 still unlikely. And I wondered if you could break down 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:11.800 for us a little bit of why I think that is. Yeah, So, 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.760 I mean I would kind of discourage any comparisons to 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:16.840 the US, I think, just to make this clear, or 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:18.920 at least to make my perspective clear. I don't think 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:21.320 there was any risk whatsoever of a coup in the 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:25.960 US generate six of completely overblown. It was just a 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.359 couple of malcontents being angry and police force, you know, 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:31.760 forces let them into the capital and nothing really happened, 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:34.600 there's no risk of the military or sections of the 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:38.840 establishment breaking with democratic norms and backing Trump to to 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:40.520 remain in power. I don't think that was the case 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:43.000 at all. In Brazil, the situation is obviously far more 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:47.320 precarious one because democracy UM, such as it is, is 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:51.160 much less consolidated. The elite are less wedded to kind 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:54.119 of the institutional reality, the kind of general kind of 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:58.000 norms and things like that. UM and you know, democrat 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.440 has been seriously weak and since the a sixteen parliamentary 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:05.240 coup or institutional coup against Juma Josaphim of the Workers 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:09.320 Party UM and you know, Bolsonado to a certain extent 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:12.640 represented the consummation of that coup because you had kind 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:15.680 of new, clean elections which sort of wiped the slate 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.720 clean and made everybody forget somehow that this institutional rupture 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:27.800 had happened. Bolsonado, wild in power, has consistently threatened institutions, 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.159 and not necessarily democratic institutions. I mean, most of his 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:34.120 recent fire has been turned against the Supreme Court, which 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:37.479 is you know, not a it's a countermajoritarian institution, right, 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:40.639 It's not UM, it's not a representative of the people 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:44.480 who the people elect. UM. But so it kind of 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:48.040 has this weird sort of shadow theater element to it, 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.280 where Bolsonado is fighting with other powers. UM. So you know, 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:53.760 he's there sat in the presidential palace, you know, firing 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:59.320 barbs at the Supreme Court, and that's all often Brazilia, UM, 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:02.880 and like it kind of doesn't involve the massive people, right, 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:04.840 So it's kind of kind of has this weird sort 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:09.040 of spectral quality to it. Nevertheless, the threats are you know, 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:13.680 concerning UM, but there I don't think they're he I mean, 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:16.639 he's aware that he doesn't have mass support, and so 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:21.040 it's not like, um, you'd have a repeat of sort 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:24.680 of the nineteen sixty four military coup in Brazil, which 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:28.200 lasted twenty one years and had the support of the military, 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:30.880 the whole of the bourgeoisie, large parts of the kind 0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:33.560 of the middle class, and the United States. You know, 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:37.720 that whole configuration, which is a kind of classic Cold 0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:42.879 War sort of coup, wouldn't happen today. So despite some 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:45.679 sort of left wing fears of suddenly they're being tanks 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:48.800 on the streets, I don't see that happening UM, or 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.000 at least if there were to be some coup or 0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:55.439 some more obvious rupture with democracy, it would happen in 0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:57.480 in a different way. And and and if you look around 0:24:57.520 --> 0:24:59.760 the world, you know these things nowadays are happening much 0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:03.920 more or um kind of gradual way. So, I mean, 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:05.719 if you just want to take the example of like 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:10.119 Turkey or of Hungry, all of which are sliding towards authoritarianism, 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:12.720 it's all done by elected presidents who kind of wear 0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:18.480 away at at democratic checks and balances, um. And that 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:22.280 would be possible in Brazil, would Bolsonado be re elected, 0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:25.879 But that at the moment isn't looking plausible. So a 0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:27.520 lot of the worry in the lead up to the 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:30.159 September the seventh protests, which were the big pro pro 0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:34.679 Bowlsonado protests um were was that they would try to 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:37.440 invade the Supreme Court building or even try to launch 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.639 a coup. And then there's questions over like who the 0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:44.560 major institutional forces and actors are there who would back that, right, 0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:46.680 so you have to it's you know, president just can't 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:48.639 design to do a coup, right, you know, you need 0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:52.359 you need, you need troops or something, right, and his 0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:58.560 his um administration is packed to the rafters with military officers, 0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:02.120 both at the level of his cabinet with like top generals, 0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:05.119 but also throughout the kind of top levels of the 0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:09.239 federal administration. He's packed it with military men um, so 0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:14.320 they are kind of guaranteeing his his um his presidency. 0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:16.960 But on the other hand, it's not entirely clear whether 0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:19.640 they want to break with democracy and whether they would 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:22.800 want to rule directly, whether they want the responsibility for that. 0:26:22.880 --> 0:26:24.919 They've already overseen this Polson not appeared, which has been 0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:28.679 a disaster economically in health terms, you know, Polsandre has 0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:31.240 obviously like denied the pandemic and not lifted a finger 0:26:31.320 --> 0:26:33.800 to do anything, declined to buy vaccines when he could 0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:36.840 above vaccines. People in the administration try to buy vaccines, 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:39.160 but with some like little graph scheme where they get 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:42.320 paid extra to buy vaccines and stuff like that. So 0:26:42.640 --> 0:26:46.040 it's obviously been a complete social and political disaster. And 0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:48.200 I don't know if the military, you know, want more 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:50.919 of that basically, so that's not entirely clear. They might 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:54.159 be more interested in maintaining their own privileges um and 0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:58.280 being seen as defenders of the constitution than in actually 0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:01.440 taking power and ruling directly, so that's not entirely clear. 0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:05.160 The other element is Brazil's massive military police forces. Now 0:27:05.160 --> 0:27:07.840 these are police forces. They're like neat cops, but they're 0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:10.520 also riot cops and responsible for a huge number of 0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:15.399 murders every year. Uh, they are in they're organized at 0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:19.200 a state level, but and so they're commanded by the 0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:24.040 state governors. But they in total number larger than the army, 0:27:24.040 --> 0:27:26.560 and it's actually the largest armed body of men in 0:27:26.640 --> 0:27:30.760 Latin America. And they are very very pro Bowlsonado. And 0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:33.040 that's concerning There was a lot of talk before September 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:37.000 seven that these police officers would maybe mutiny or at 0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:39.399 the very least show up at the demonstrations, either in 0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:42.360 uniform or in plain clothes, something that's illegal. By the way, 0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:44.560 you're not allowed as a police officer to to kind 0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:48.480 of manifest yourself politically. That didn't seem to happen, so 0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:52.600 you know, that's good at least. Um So you know, 0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.960 if you're asking me to kind of draw to to 0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:59.800 sort of sum up and asked, say, what, how likely 0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:04.320 who actually would be? I think the the scenario would 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:08.600 demand some sort of wider instability or outbreak of mass 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:12.880 disorder of some sort for then the military to feel 0:28:12.880 --> 0:28:15.720 they have to intervene to to kind of give just 0:28:15.920 --> 0:28:18.320 cause for a coup. I don't think there would be 0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:22.840 a coup kind of um, you know, like like lightning 0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:24.720 on a on a on a on a clear day 0:28:24.760 --> 0:28:27.760 sort of thing. Yeah. And even given some of the 0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:31.800 economic pecurity that the Brazilian working classes facing, given the pandemic, 0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:36.439 and you know, the fallout for the economy, um, that 0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:40.720 sort of social upheaval doesn't seem likely. No, exactly, I 0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:43.440 mean if there's I mean, of course, if there were 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:45.880 some sort of uh, you know, just for the sake 0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:49.480 of argument, if they're mass protests and riots with rolling blackouts. 0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:52.320 I mean, this is completely purely speculative. UM. I don't 0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:54.960 like to kind of go go into kind of fearmongering 0:28:55.040 --> 0:28:59.280 or whatever. But but if in that in that scenario, 0:28:59.320 --> 0:29:00.960 then yes, the middle the dream might feel they need 0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:04.280 to put you know, put put troops on the streets, 0:29:04.320 --> 0:29:07.360 which is something that they did in in Rio relatively recently, 0:29:07.600 --> 0:29:12.160 where they took over policing um, in response to the 0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:15.960 kind of insecurity situation there. But you know, it was 0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:19.920 fairly badly handled, responsible for a lot of killings, the 0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:23.080 security situation didn't improve, so it ended up being a 0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:26.240 little bit for show. So it's not again, I think 0:29:26.400 --> 0:29:30.360 the likelihood would be more that the military would enter 0:29:30.400 --> 0:29:33.240 into like a sort of peacekeeping capacity. Let's and I 0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:37.080 say that kind of ironically because Brazil did send peacekeeping 0:29:37.080 --> 0:29:39.719 troops to Haiti and had a big presence there, and 0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:42.480 we're responsible for loads of human rights abuses and things 0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:45.520 like that. So, um, when I say peacekeeping, I don't 0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:49.880 mean to say that that's like a good thing, um. 0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:52.840 But but yeah, so I I guess, you know, summing up, 0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:54.640 I think they would need to be some sort of 0:29:57.000 --> 0:29:59.320 they would need to see some sort of just cause 0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:03.400 of some sort of mass unrest for them to then intervene. 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:06.960 Well that's good news, I mean in the sense that 0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:10.200 it seems like despite some of the fears, um, it 0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:13.440 would have been stoked recently, especially I think um in 0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:16.640 the international media that's been picked up a lot um 0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:19.840 regarding the potential for a coup. Um seems like, you know, 0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:22.000 the elections coming up next year hopefully be a peaceful 0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:24.480 transfer of power, and if you could, you know, I'm 0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:26.560 not sure there would be a peaceful transfer. Yeah, So 0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:27.880 this is the thing. I'm not sure there'll be a 0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:30.680 peaceful transfer of power. I mean, I think that's not 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:33.840 a will kick up a fuss in some sense. And 0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:37.360 has already been uh semming the seeds for a long time, 0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:41.160 arguing that the voting system, which is in Brazil fully electronic, 0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:44.040 were far more advanced in the United States here Um, 0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:48.480 no hanging chats or anything like that. UM. And it's 0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:50.600 been something which has no which has never had any 0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:54.719 credible allegations of fraud against it. The system is pretty secure, 0:30:54.800 --> 0:30:58.800 it works, etcetera. It delivers results pretty immediately, and that's that. 0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:02.360 But Bolson has been for a long time trying to 0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:05.120 undermine faith in it, and of course it has no 0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:07.200 basis in reality. But that, of course, that's not the point. 0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:11.320 The point is to demoralize, um, demoralized the election, demoralized 0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:16.400 people's faith in democracy. Uh And and so he already 0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:20.240 has alleged that the election which he won was fraudulent, 0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:21.760 which of course is It is kind of question. But 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:25.120 again this is kind of following Trump's tactics UM and 0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:30.720 often quite explicitly self consciously. UM. And he's going to 0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:33.920 do the same in UM. And there's gonna be a 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.760 lot of kind of you know, propaganda from him. You 0:31:37.800 --> 0:31:40.360 know what is now called fake news, but I prefer 0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:44.000 to just be more traditional and called propaganda. Um and 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:47.080 uh and and so I think you know, whether he 0:31:47.160 --> 0:31:49.320 leaves office peacefully or not, I mean, it depends what 0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:52.320 you define its peacefully. I think there will be some 0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:57.320 sort of resistance on his part, some lawsuits, maybe they'll 0:31:57.320 --> 0:32:02.360 be protests, because of course his hardcore base is relatively strong. 0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:05.440 It's not a huge part of the population, but it's 0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:09.480 maybe a nucleus of like or something, and you know 0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:14.440 that's still substantial enough, uh that it can cause you know, 0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:19.800 serious disruption. And the So I think, at least in 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:22.160 terms of the most ideal the sectors which are most 0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:25.760 ideologically wed to him, I mean the real hardcore kind 0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:31.040 of nutty culture warrior types who follow him and hardcore authoritarians. 0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:36.160 They they might not accept the election result. And I 0:32:36.200 --> 0:32:38.880 don't know what goes from there, you know what what 0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:41.720 the next step there would be, Um, whether there would 0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:45.200 be some kind of here sort of um making a 0:32:45.280 --> 0:32:47.880 US comparison to spite what I said earlier, like a 0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:50.440 kind of generally six sort of moment. But perhaps a 0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:54.360 bit more destabilizing. I think the question you always have 0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:56.600 to ask, you know, is not like, oh, are there 0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:58.800 lots of people who are angry and are going to 0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:01.440 cause a mess, but you know, what are the institutional 0:33:01.480 --> 0:33:03.280 forces and what are the balance of forces kind of 0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:06.240 across society, And I think a lot of institutional actors 0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:09.720 you know of Bolsonado were to lose the election pretty clearly, 0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:15.560 um and the winner was to be Lula, who would 0:33:15.600 --> 0:33:18.560 then have stitched up a lot of deals with a 0:33:18.560 --> 0:33:23.240 lot of the olderly, with a lot of the military establishment, 0:33:23.320 --> 0:33:26.360 with a lot of congressmen who trace their own histories 0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:28.240 back to the dictatorship when they were kind of the 0:33:28.280 --> 0:33:31.320 civil participants in the dictatorship rights a lot of bad guys. 0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:33.920 Lula will have stitched up a lot of deals with them, 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:37.400 and he is currently doing that right. So it's important 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:40.320 also to note as an asside that any Lula government 0:33:40.320 --> 0:33:42.960 will not be a radical government. It won't even be 0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:46.360 as moderate center left as it was the first time 0:33:46.440 --> 0:33:49.640 round from two thousand and two until it will be 0:33:49.760 --> 0:33:55.160 a government which is completely compromised um with the old establishment. 0:33:55.640 --> 0:34:00.560 So will it be better than Bolsonado, for sure, But 0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:04.680 there should be no real left wing enthusiasm for the 0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:07.960 return of Lula, maybe only relief that Polsonado has gone. 0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:12.760 Um So, I think if Lula is able to manage 0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:15.560 that and able to do deals, and if if Lula 0:34:15.640 --> 0:34:17.640 does one thing, it's it's does deals. I mean, that 0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:20.920 is his thing. He's a great conciliator. Ever since his 0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:23.759 more radical trade union days in the seventies. He was 0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:26.560 a guy who always made deals right, who always found 0:34:26.560 --> 0:34:28.880 a middle path, is able, is good with people and 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:31.200 so on. Um So, if he's able to do that, 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:35.680 then why would a lot of the elites decided to, 0:34:36.560 --> 0:34:40.040 you know, support Bolsonado's claims that he was frauded out 0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:43.959 of of an election. The instability ensuing from that, um 0:34:44.160 --> 0:34:48.080 is probably not worth their while because ultimately they're far 0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:52.360 more narrowly self interested in, for example, making their sectional 0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:57.520 interests known and defended. So, you know, if finance is 0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:01.480 happy with Lula, if Lula is not gonna curtail Agri 0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:03.759 business too much, which is you know, one of the 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:06.160 main bolson those main backers, then I think they'll go 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:08.319 along with that. You know, It's important to note that 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:13.680 among Bolsonados, like capitalists support the hardest core of that 0:35:13.960 --> 0:35:16.120 is Actrive business and as well as some kind of 0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:20.040 sections of kind of big retail and things like that. Um, 0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:22.279 he's kind of lost a lot of the sort of 0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:26.400 financial classes support because they because Bolsonado hasn't been a 0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:30.879 total hardcore neoliberal in terms of prioritizing some various kind 0:35:30.880 --> 0:35:34.000 of reforms right kind of tax reform, pension reform and 0:35:34.000 --> 0:35:37.560 things like that, and as a consequence, um, and as 0:35:37.560 --> 0:35:41.239 a consequence like he they don't see him necessarily as 0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:44.040 their guy. Agrive business still sees Bolsonado as their guy, 0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:46.960 but they're not ideologically wedded him on mass you know, 0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:50.040 it's still kind of a sectional interest. It's just you know, 0:35:50.760 --> 0:35:56.359 kind of narrowly narrowly self interested in economic terms. So um, yeah, 0:35:56.400 --> 0:35:59.319 I I'm not sure that they would necessarily force erupt 0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:02.800 with the democracy for all the problems that that would cause. 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:06.560 If I can highlight like another thing of kind of 0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:09.360 what might still happen, because there's been a lot of 0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:11.919 talk about impeachment of polson There's been over a there's 0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:15.160 been over a hundred impeachment requests filed against him. And 0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:20.840 because of the configuration of Congress and his Bolsonado's appointees 0:36:20.880 --> 0:36:24.080 and everything that won't advance because he's basically bought off 0:36:24.120 --> 0:36:27.040 Congress with enough pork pork barrel spending that they won't 0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:31.160 seek to impeach him. But if he's losing support and 0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:36.240 there's a door now opening to impeach him, then they 0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:39.040 the conditions might be changing and make it more likely. 0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:42.799 The reason they might want to impeach Bolsonado is that 0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:46.680 they know that the elections pull right between Bolsonado and Lula, 0:36:46.800 --> 0:36:49.840 neither of whom they want. And so if there's a 0:36:49.840 --> 0:36:53.000 possibility of a potential third way candidate, and of course, 0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:56.080 like all the newspapers, all the major newspapers have been 0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:58.400 talking up various different third way candidates, and it's the 0:36:58.480 --> 0:37:00.000 usual thing, you know, they kind of float a blue 0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:01.759 and then they go, hey, this guy is young and 0:37:01.960 --> 0:37:04.360 innovative and modern, and we're going to bring him in 0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:08.000 and exactly and what happens is that, like you know, 0:37:08.080 --> 0:37:10.160 he flatlines in the polls and nothing happens, and no 0:37:10.200 --> 0:37:13.440 one talks about him for again, like after a month. Um, 0:37:13.480 --> 0:37:15.960 and that's happening now and like it will continue happening. 0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:18.000 But the reality is that none of them are pulling 0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:21.160 over like in double digits and that's not going to change. 0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:24.919 And the parties are also themselves like, oh now kind 0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:27.839 of because Brazil has a hugely fragmented party system, has 0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:30.799 like twenty seven different parties, and so they're a lot 0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:32.839 of them are now joining up together because of some 0:37:33.040 --> 0:37:36.200 electoral form allowing them to to kind of combine into 0:37:36.320 --> 0:37:40.480 into sort of new party unions, and that they're now 0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:43.000 concerned with that, which also shows that they're not interested 0:37:43.000 --> 0:37:45.360 in necessarily in fielding a third party candidate, because a 0:37:45.440 --> 0:37:49.280 third way candidates and so to speak, because they're mainly 0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:52.520 guarantee looking at kind of guaranteeing enough TV air time 0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:55.919 and getting congress people re elected and so on. So 0:37:56.640 --> 0:38:01.520 I see, so because of that inability to really get 0:38:01.520 --> 0:38:04.480 any wind behind a third way candidate, the only way 0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:06.640 they could maybe managed that would be to take Polsonado 0:38:06.640 --> 0:38:09.760 out of the game and therefore open up the field 0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:12.480 on the right for a kind of more traditional right 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:15.640 wing figure who is in Pulsonado, And so that might 0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:17.920 that might yet happen, whether it's in a whether it's 0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:22.080 an impeachment or um the canceling of his electoral slate, 0:38:22.080 --> 0:38:24.360 which has never ever happened before, but because they have 0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:28.279 all these allegations of improper use of fake news during 0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:31.799 the election, especially via what's happened lots of kind of 0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:36.320 illegal funding, which is something that was obviously which obviously 0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:40.239 fell foul of electoral rules back in and everybody knew 0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:43.960 about it, but they were never going to act on it. Um. 0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:45.680 You know that the Supreme Court was never gonna act 0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:47.320 on it. But they've had this in their back pocket 0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:50.320 and so they might still yet act on it. And 0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:53.680 that would mean not just Polsonado being impeached, but it 0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:56.960 actually would mean that the slate would be canceled. The 0:38:57.040 --> 0:39:02.440 vice president would also lose his position, and everybody running 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:05.160 with them would be out, would be out exactly. Yeah, 0:39:05.239 --> 0:39:07.560 so that whole presidential state would be out and then 0:39:07.640 --> 0:39:09.600 until the election, so let's say, you know whatever, it 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:11.760 would be ten months or you know, until that would 0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:17.600 until the election, Brazil would then elect a president indirectly 0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:22.000 in Congress, right, so kind of parliamentary system, um. And 0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:25.400 that's the big concern that that if that were a 0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:27.640 short term then it would matter so much and there'd 0:39:27.640 --> 0:39:29.880 be new there'll be new elections as planned in October. 0:39:31.280 --> 0:39:34.440 But Brazil's Congress has always been trying to maneuver towards 0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:39.480 a parliamentary system, which would be really and anti democratic 0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:42.640 because congress is already kind of a mess um stock 0:39:42.719 --> 0:39:46.840 filled with you know, kind of a bunch of reactionaries. Um. 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:50.719 And you know, the parliament, the congressional elections are much 0:39:50.719 --> 0:39:53.440 more sort of clientilistic than the presidential elections, which are 0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:58.160 kind of the most democratic part of Brazil's system. And 0:39:58.480 --> 0:40:02.799 if you and if you switch the parliamentary system, that 0:40:02.880 --> 0:40:06.160 basically means that that a bunch of congressmen who have 0:40:06.200 --> 0:40:10.279 no popularity whatsoever can then indirectly choose a president. And 0:40:10.280 --> 0:40:12.200 so they're always trying to maneuver towards that, and that's 0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:16.040 quite concerning. Um. So you know, when I say that 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:18.799 there's no coup attempt or that that the risks of 0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:22.600 a coup are probably not that great, that isn't to 0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:26.319 say that Brazilian democracy is in a healthy state at all. 0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:31.840 I see, I appreciate you breaking it all down, um, 0:40:31.960 --> 0:40:34.719 And I wanted to see if you want to let 0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:36.600 people know where they could follow you, get your new 0:40:36.640 --> 0:40:40.120 book or anything like that. Yeah, no, thanks for having me. 0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:44.880 I uh, I am active on on Alpha Bunga Bunga, 0:40:44.960 --> 0:40:48.279 which is at Bunga Cast on all social media or 0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:52.440 bunga cast dot com. That's um my global politics podcast 0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:55.520 with which which I co host with to other guys, 0:40:55.560 --> 0:40:58.920 George and Phil Um. We now have a big series 0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:02.400 coming out on generational poul Takes, which maybe your listeners 0:41:02.400 --> 0:41:05.279 would be interested in checking out. And my book The 0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:08.040 End of the End of History Is is on sale now, 0:41:08.560 --> 0:41:11.680 kind of covering uh this, this strange moment that we're 0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:16.319 living in of of an increasingly turbulent political world. All right, well, 0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:25.640 thanks so much for being here with us. Oh, let 0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:27.520 me get I gotta, I gotta Okay, So if this 0:41:27.760 --> 0:41:31.000 cat's name am Sita, real name Leandro Roque de ali Vera. 0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:33.880 It's been making music for more than a decade, Born 0:41:34.239 --> 0:41:37.839 um and based in saw Paolo Um. He's recorded three 0:41:37.840 --> 0:41:40.520 albums and in doing so built up a reputation as 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:44.680 one of Brazil's top hip hop mcs. Um. It's also, 0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:47.840 in the past year two years, emerged as one of 0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:51.600 the country's most influential cultural figures. All right, let's check 0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:59.680 out this track real quick. So do we know if 0:41:59.719 --> 0:42:04.680 he's bosonar Rista. I get the feeling from the lyrics. 0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:09.040 He's not a Bolsonarousta in that his lyrics come across 0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:12.840 very like, you know, very laboratory, like diagnosing the ills 0:42:12.920 --> 0:42:16.680 of racism, the you know, the ills of our our 0:42:16.760 --> 0:42:22.520 history with enslavement and uh police repression, which like you know, 0:42:22.600 --> 0:42:26.279 Bolsonaro loves the police. What I understand, Bolsnaro hates the 0:42:26.320 --> 0:42:29.280 blacks and the pores. So I'm gonna I'm gonna assume 0:42:29.320 --> 0:42:33.000 there's like not they don't really. He looks way too 0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:35.320 cool to fuk with them. He looks way too cool, 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:40.239 like I want to be this Nick's friends. I'm gonna 0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:41.880 be your friend. Look at the look look at the 0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:44.839 stings with the little parts in the hair. Sorry found 0:42:44.880 --> 0:42:48.319 this picture of him. Yeah, they can't sure, but yeah, yeah, 0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:58.240 he's looking fresh to death. And the couplings, Lord of mercy, 0:42:58.239 --> 0:43:02.319 the little wire and glasses, and the fucking beat goes 0:43:02.400 --> 0:43:05.279 hard and then you got you know, got mc going 0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:08.040 in talking about you know, the police van is a 0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:11.480 slave ship and the slums of the slave quarters he's 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:17.520 talking about. He's like talking, you know, harkening back to Angola, Congo, Soweto, 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:22.880 like his you know African Homelands and uh talking about 0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:27.760 Ben Lodden getting made in the USA and fucking talking 0:43:27.760 --> 0:43:29.839 about the KKK. And so he's talking about all these 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:34.400 different like inter national intersections between you know, we're like 0:43:34.400 --> 0:43:36.800 we're at the middle of which comes like the Black 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:40.520 Resilian struggle, which has many parallels to the Black American struggle. 0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:46.080 So beat goes hard hard, the lyrics go hard. Videos 0:43:46.080 --> 0:43:48.600 of note too, it's uh, it's got like a scene 0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:55.200 of workers revolt in like like would you I got 0:43:55.239 --> 0:43:58.480 plantation vibes, Although I don't know that they explicitly showed 0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:01.160 it was a plantation house. I'm sure I'm sure that 0:44:01.280 --> 0:44:06.839 parallel was the implication was. Um they're intentional. Oh yeah, 0:44:06.880 --> 0:44:10.719 they're like like understated, but like definitely you know, trying 0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:12.719 to nod a little bit to it because I mean, yeah, 0:44:12.920 --> 0:44:17.759 we're still living on a plantation hard. Instrumentally I was, 0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:20.200 I was making this comment before we came back from 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:25.920 the jump, But instrumentally it makes me feel like old 0:44:25.960 --> 0:44:30.879 school uh Black Eyed Peas before Fergie, like those sort 0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:35.879 of beats. All right, enough of admiring homies wardrobe, who 0:44:35.920 --> 0:44:39.400 we got next or next? Okay, Um, this is not 0:44:39.480 --> 0:44:41.640 a hip hop song, and I don't think I've ever 0:44:41.719 --> 0:44:45.200 deviated from the genre of focus in the history of 0:44:45.239 --> 0:44:48.120 the show, but god damn, this is a banger, and 0:44:48.280 --> 0:44:52.440 AlSi Sauarez, who sings the song, is ninety fucking years old, 0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:53.879 so I thought I had to give a shout out 0:44:53.920 --> 0:44:58.560 to the homie also while bringing attention to the fact 0:44:58.600 --> 0:45:01.439 that this song I'm get of feem dumundo, which means 0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:04.319 women at the end of the world. There's like a 0:45:04.360 --> 0:45:08.680 fucking feminist anthem in an arrow where both Scenaro's out 0:45:08.719 --> 0:45:13.279 here making jokes about rape and talking about how you know, 0:45:13.320 --> 0:45:15.960 women are idiots. Like, I feel like this is a 0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:19.359 really powerful song worth giving a listen to. Let's give 0:45:19.400 --> 0:45:26.799 it a spend real quick. Okay, yeah that yeah, that 0:45:26.800 --> 0:45:30.520 ship is dope. I love the instrumental for it, man, 0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:34.319 that piano pluck. You nailed it. You explain exactly why 0:45:34.320 --> 0:45:36.279 I felt because it's a good fit, because it's got 0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:39.480 this instrumental feeling like where it feels like it feels 0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:42.080 like any second the bars are gonna drop. Yeah, it 0:45:42.120 --> 0:45:46.160 feels like a beat, you know, like, yeah, that sounds 0:45:46.200 --> 0:45:50.000 like somebody made that be in an MPC. You know, up, 0:45:50.040 --> 0:45:52.359 shut up, I see, yeah, I can see West Ruler 0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:54.360 shout out of West like doing a little thing on 0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:59.239 the B pad with the piano. Which if no one 0:45:59.280 --> 0:46:03.319 has sampled this song, uh, maybe they should because it's yeah, 0:46:03.440 --> 0:46:06.160 you know, to get a loop going with the fucking 0:46:06.200 --> 0:46:09.239 in the background and ship. So why don't you tell 0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:13.640 the people what the songs about? So, um, the song 0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:18.680 it's it's it's the showcases feminist resistance to oppression. Um, 0:46:18.719 --> 0:46:21.040 in lines like on the avenue, I left there my 0:46:21.120 --> 0:46:24.440 black skin and my voice, my home, my loneliness. I 0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:26.120 threw it from the third floor. So it's sort of 0:46:26.160 --> 0:46:28.720 like about throwing out all the ship that's like holding 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:31.920 you back with reference to you know, skin color with 0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:35.480 two gender uh, and sort of like rising above it, 0:46:35.600 --> 0:46:40.080 like laughing even in the face of insurmountable ops. You know. 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:42.160 She described herself as a woman at the end of 0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:45.640 the world who will sing until the end, who will 0:46:45.680 --> 0:46:48.720 sing until the end of the world, and so um 0:46:48.920 --> 0:46:52.759 there was a lot of like violence against women and 0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:56.719 femicide going on in Brazil at the time that the 0:46:56.719 --> 0:47:00.440 song was written. Um, and so sort of like I 0:47:00.480 --> 0:47:03.040 guess giving it's sort of just like an anthem. So 0:47:03.080 --> 0:47:05.960 it's just like an anthem for like this backdrop of violence, 0:47:06.280 --> 0:47:11.040 of oppression, of just general struggle struggle against fascism, like 0:47:11.160 --> 0:47:13.960 you know, keeping your head high above that. While not 0:47:14.080 --> 0:47:16.839 overtly political and its content, it's one of those things 0:47:16.880 --> 0:47:20.799 where like it's inherently politiful and that it is resistance 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:23.920 and embodies resistance and so I really nope, those are 0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:27.360 the best type of political songs in my opinion, best type. 0:47:27.520 --> 0:47:30.239 It's not preachy. It's not like, Hey, goes out and 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:33.759 vote kids and then fucking corny as ship I do 0:47:33.840 --> 0:47:40.760 in my dumbass music. Um, Hey, you know it's true. 0:47:40.840 --> 0:47:44.320 I'm like so voting for for shareff. Who are you 0:47:44.360 --> 0:47:48.760 gonna come to solicitor general? It's not true. It's a style. 0:47:49.000 --> 0:47:53.759 It's a style corny as hell, and I and I 0:47:53.760 --> 0:47:58.360 embrace it. It's great but no, it's like understated but 0:47:58.480 --> 0:48:01.200 just empowering. It's good ship, don't know that's worth it? 0:48:01.280 --> 0:48:03.680 In this bit to tell good for you, good for 0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:09.040 you else Suarez and it's black is now. Our next 0:48:09.040 --> 0:48:12.920 song is a Yo Data by Jonga O Yo da 0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:17.360 Tigre means I have a tiger um and Jonga is 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:21.799 a bella horizontal born rapper, who interestingly was among the 0:48:21.840 --> 0:48:26.520 finalists for Best International Rapper for the BT Hip Hop 0:48:26.560 --> 0:48:31.520 Awards last year. Um. In this track, John calls out 0:48:31.600 --> 0:48:34.239 racism against brack Resilians while taking a jab at balls 0:48:34.360 --> 0:48:38.160 Naro rhyming, whoever has the my color is a thief. 0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:41.280 Whoever has the color of Eric Clapton is a clapt 0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:46.240 To maniac. I'm sorry, that's hilarious to me, uh because 0:48:46.280 --> 0:48:48.480 he didn't the air Clapton end up being real racist 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:51.680 against like immigrants or some ship. And I want thinking another, right, guy? 0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:56.560 There was something with air Clapton, you know, like him 0:48:56.640 --> 0:49:00.919 and who's the other guy? Um, I don't know, man, 0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:05.399 one of these guitar playing white. Yeah, the ship Morrissey. Yeah. 0:49:05.440 --> 0:49:08.720 It's like you know, every every other day is like yeah, 0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:12.360 so Morrissey said this, Yo, So Morrissey said that we 0:49:12.400 --> 0:49:15.200 can't funk with Morrissey no more. And I'm sitting over here, like, 0:49:15.520 --> 0:49:20.240 who the fuck is Morrissey? Man? All right, you know, alright, 0:49:20.280 --> 0:49:24.759 I don't know cool, yeah, legit and Doll crucified me 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:27.120 for this listeners, But like, I don't know if I 0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:29.520 could name a Eric Clapton song off the top of 0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:32.480 my head. But I remember his racist Tears in Heaven. 0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:39.880 Tears in Heaven, Tears in Heaven. I just couldn't name one. 0:49:39.960 --> 0:49:41.800 And what was the other one? He did a joint. 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:44.400 There was a movie with John Travolta back in the 0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:48.520 day called Phenomenon, and he did the theme song for 0:49:48.719 --> 0:49:51.680 with baby Face. It was him and baby Face was 0:49:51.719 --> 0:49:56.000 called change the World, like if I could change the world. 0:49:56.360 --> 0:49:57.880 They sing it a lot better than that, But you 0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:00.880 know what I'm saying, really know anyway, I didn't know 0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:08.600 that was possible. I don't. Let's check out this damn song. Alright, 0:50:08.640 --> 0:50:17.720 let's yeah. He talks about how at the time of judgment, 0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:21.200 God is black and Brazilian. Love that um, And then 0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:23.880 in in this little Jabbitt Bossnarrow here he says, and 0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:27.000 to save the country a Christian ex military man who 0:50:27.040 --> 0:50:31.000 thinks that women getting together as a horhouse. So he's like, 0:50:31.080 --> 0:50:33.520 oh you think, oh, you think this guy, this Christian 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:37.040 quote unquote Christian guy, that's quote unquote military guy who 0:50:37.200 --> 0:50:40.000 like thinks women are slugs. This guy is gonna save 0:50:40.080 --> 0:50:42.960 your country. Well, at the time of judgment, God is 0:50:43.000 --> 0:50:45.240 black and Brazilian, and he's gonna not gonna be pleased 0:50:45.280 --> 0:50:49.000 with this ship. So is he really popular? Oh yeah, 0:50:49.040 --> 0:50:52.080 it's mad popular. So we also last year, I believe 0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:57.280 took home the MTV MIA Beat UH Brazil Awards, apparently 0:50:57.280 --> 0:51:01.280 it's a big deal. During his ward ship performer um 0:51:01.320 --> 0:51:04.879 on top of the roof of a building. Um. This 0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:08.479 is uh also gets back into the politics of his music, 0:51:08.560 --> 0:51:11.439 which like they are found throughout his music and music 0:51:11.560 --> 0:51:13.239 music videos and encourage you all to take a look 0:51:13.239 --> 0:51:16.400 at up them all lots of examples. But at this 0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:19.240 award show performance, he drove up home an anti resist 0:51:19.360 --> 0:51:23.680 racist message featuring background dancers for shirts imprinted with the 0:51:23.719 --> 0:51:28.120 slogan potterm dinose matar, which means stop killing us, which 0:51:28.120 --> 0:51:31.360 apparently in Brazil it's also a huge slogan for like 0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:34.399 the anti racist movement, which I don't know if it's 0:51:34.440 --> 0:51:37.839 like an offshoot of Black Lives Matter or just like 0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:40.680 the very simple statement of police talk killing us just 0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:47.080 has this resonance languages. Yeah, like it's going to be 0:51:47.120 --> 0:51:50.440 applied to any populations. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, it's 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:53.640 like the inspiration from what's happening here or is it 0:51:53.760 --> 0:51:56.839 just literally that is Wow, we should probably look look 0:51:56.880 --> 0:51:59.880 at that because I mean, is that just too coin 0:52:00.040 --> 0:52:05.480 sidental movements right up? Straight up? I mean so much, 0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:08.279 so much. What I also I think is revealed in 0:52:08.680 --> 0:52:14.040 the music of m sid of of Elsa Suarez Jonga 0:52:14.120 --> 0:52:18.800 today is the parallels between the United States and Brazil. 0:52:18.920 --> 0:52:21.520 Outside of Oh we've talked about fascism and like they 0:52:21.560 --> 0:52:24.120 have the trump of the tropics down there, also just 0:52:24.200 --> 0:52:27.840 the development of like the slavery there's like three hundred 0:52:27.880 --> 0:52:30.840 and fifty years of slavery in Brazil, you know, the 0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:36.080 way the police are murdering black people, hyper capitalism all 0:52:36.080 --> 0:52:39.560 the ship, the way that like these similar forces have 0:52:39.800 --> 0:52:43.360 cooked up similar results for both of our both of 0:52:43.360 --> 0:52:46.280 our colonies. Yeah, I guess you could say. It's interesting 0:52:46.600 --> 0:52:48.239 how you see that in the music as well, with 0:52:48.280 --> 0:52:51.400 the themes that come up. Well, ship, we can only 0:52:51.440 --> 0:52:55.839 hope that we can only hope that they all that 0:52:55.880 --> 0:53:00.120 stuff like is defeated or quells down or admitted gate 0:53:00.200 --> 0:53:03.359 it to whatever extent it can be. It doesn't take 0:53:03.760 --> 0:53:05.680 of you, you know, gave me a little bit of 0:53:05.680 --> 0:53:10.680 hope that maybe all things are not lost. Um, but 0:53:10.760 --> 0:53:15.520 you never, I don't know. You're the smartest people. And 0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:18.960 he was a very smart man. You get caught off, 0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:22.279 you get caught I surprise sometimes like shoot him. Well, 0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:24.880 one thing that we do, one thing that we do 0:53:25.000 --> 0:53:30.120 know that we don't get caught off surprise with. That's it. 0:53:30.360 --> 0:53:33.160 We gotta end this ship fucking bars. They never catch 0:53:33.280 --> 0:53:37.960 me off. We will be back next week. But before 0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:42.200 we go, like the homie just said, we need some bars. 0:53:42.200 --> 0:53:45.319 So Joel please, my main man, can you can you 0:53:45.400 --> 0:53:53.480 bless us with some heat yo blue collar to beat. Yeah, 0:53:53.719 --> 0:53:56.600 I'm a scholet with the heat the rhoms at a premium. 0:53:56.640 --> 0:53:59.000 You try to get him cheap. That's why Bostonara got 0:53:59.040 --> 0:54:01.720 the right wingers in the street. So every time I moved, 0:54:01.719 --> 0:54:03.759 you know, I gotta be the street. It still is 0:54:03.840 --> 0:54:05.919 kind of here to miss to say it's I lllegit admit. 0:54:06.200 --> 0:54:09.440 He don't really like anybody with a clearly risk ground folks, 0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:12.319 clear folks of people who indigenous. You can even throw 0:54:12.360 --> 0:54:14.800 a little goose stepping in the mix. But this is 0:54:14.840 --> 0:54:16.800 in a sense we're preaching of the choir. I'm just 0:54:16.840 --> 0:54:19.080 trying to keep it dope and being creature you admire. 0:54:19.200 --> 0:54:21.520 Make a sucker, wrap a halt. Godam screeching on the 0:54:21.560 --> 0:54:24.520 tie Everything I say is crack minus either in the fire, 0:54:24.920 --> 0:54:28.080 it's dope. Knife and Lingua franca, take about. We're a 0:54:28.120 --> 0:54:31.279 couple of superheroes with Cape and cow Listen close and 0:54:31.320 --> 0:54:33.960 I'll break it down. Keep your damn mouth shut and 0:54:34.000 --> 0:54:41.200 give us a reparations now, Yeah, I don't Knife. I'm 0:54:41.239 --> 0:54:47.160 like you're listening to Waiting on Reparations for We're Black 0:54:47.200 --> 0:54:51.279 Resilience as well as Black America. Hurry up with all 0:54:51.320 --> 0:54:53.560 of it, hurry it all up, right, it all up, 0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:58.560 See you next week. Waitning on Reparations is the production 0:54:58.600 --> 0:55:01.240 of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 0:55:01.320 --> 0:55:04.240 check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:55:04.280 --> 0:55:05.239 you get your podcasts.