Speaker 1: You're listening to waiting on reparations for production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Uh from port a Fellow NTY. The people love, Angory,
Speaker 1: the hungry, the marching, the pushback on fascism, saying that
Speaker 1: democracy watching the president and talk to you, don't walk through.
Speaker 1: He jokes about raping the nieces, thousands of working class
Speaker 1: people deceased from deceases, for rested lands where the trees
Speaker 1: left the crease, and we got to defeat him by
Speaker 1: vote or impeachment. And so day in the streets in
Speaker 1: the capital where when all the masks and weaping flash
Speaker 1: into the basket, goes by the parliament or by the ballot,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. All that matters is banding together. So we
Speaker 1: see the fascist fall. What's happening? What's good? People? I'm
Speaker 1: dope knife, I'm little Franca and we are waiting our reparations.
Speaker 1: You know what it is? Hey me my money? Hurry
Speaker 1: a hell up with that? How are you doing? I
Speaker 1: am fine. I just got out of city hall. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like we had a good meeting.
Speaker 1: Declared Columbus Day, Indigenous People's Day. Uh, so fucking fuck
Speaker 1: you Columbus, burning in hell right now? Your day is
Speaker 1: over and it is now Indigenous People's day here and
Speaker 1: change probably a lot um. It was funny because in
Speaker 1: our resolution that we passed, it's like, oh, we're gonna
Speaker 1: seek ways to govern with like, you know, the ancestral
Speaker 1: knowledge of the indigenous people whose lands has belonged to
Speaker 1: I'm just right up with my colleagues. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: if y'all want to do that, maybe we should consider
Speaker 1: giving the land back. Yeah, like because think about it, okay,
Speaker 1: because I've been studying land back a little bit, like
Speaker 1: as a movement, and it's public lands. It's not like
Speaker 1: all of the white people and black people when Mescan
Speaker 1: people like in there, like the homes they owned and
Speaker 1: their condos or whatever, we're gonna give their condo to
Speaker 1: like the muscoge It's it's all. It's about public lands.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, you know what, why don't we just
Speaker 1: give Why do we give them the park? Give him
Speaker 1: the parks? Because like and got all these old white
Speaker 1: people here in the commission Mey're like, oh, well, we'll
Speaker 1: put up signs. I'm mom, I'm according the podcast. My
Speaker 1: mom's here. She's looking out for the baby, making herself
Speaker 1: a drink. Making yourself a drink. She's leaving. Now, just
Speaker 1: start over. You gonna keep that keep going, Okay, I
Speaker 1: have to keep it. A umm oh, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm back in toil again, Like oh ruined my prom night? Anyway?
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, and her generational living got to normalize it
Speaker 1: as millennials and Gen Z become increasingly economically precarious living
Speaker 1: with our parents, can't afford fucking rent anyway, kind of
Speaker 1: things that are I'm sorry to me to cut you off.
Speaker 1: What's up now? I was just speaking of the things
Speaker 1: that are your multi gen generational or changing amongst the generations.
Speaker 1: You know, we're of the Internet generation in particular, were
Speaker 1: like the that millennial age that's like the last of
Speaker 1: the people who were alive and kicking before the Internet
Speaker 1: took over the world. Yeah, I don't like, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say I remember life before the Internet, like distinctly. I
Speaker 1: remember when I when I first got the Internet, but
Speaker 1: I don't have very distinct memories from before that. Okay,
Speaker 1: I was like seven or something when I first like
Speaker 1: logged onto a O L or something. Yeah. Okay, so
Speaker 1: see I'm I'm I'm I'm older than you. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and I definitely remember, yeah, because for a long time.
Speaker 1: I Mean, the thing is, it's hard for me to
Speaker 1: remember what it was now, but like I remember that
Speaker 1: I lived through it, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: it's like I wasn't old enough that I was dry
Speaker 1: been anywhere personally looking at map quests and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But I'm young enough to remember when people have to
Speaker 1: use like map quests, when that was first becoming a
Speaker 1: thing before GPS and even before map quest, when people
Speaker 1: have to use like regular maps and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Like I remember going on road trips with my parents
Speaker 1: when they have to use like regular maps because you
Speaker 1: couldn't just look stuff up, and when you have to
Speaker 1: use a thesaurus in a dictionary, and like encyclopedia is
Speaker 1: like actual encyclopedia is not. I'll never forget when I
Speaker 1: was on tour at one time, both me I like
Speaker 1: shattered my tour manager's phone into a pool of water.
Speaker 1: Not only did I smash the screen, I smashed it
Speaker 1: into pool of water and mine got lost in Newberg,
Speaker 1: New York. So like we were confronted with like how
Speaker 1: do we find figure out how to get home? And
Speaker 1: like how novel it was to look up the directions
Speaker 1: and write it down on the back of an envelope
Speaker 1: and like, I hope we don't miss a turn, and
Speaker 1: then like it felt so like magical and renegade and
Speaker 1: just anachronistic. Well, we only bring it out just because
Speaker 1: of the revelations about Facebook that have come up, you know,
Speaker 1: the whole social media thing. That's definitely something that you know,
Speaker 1: older generations and haven't had to deal with obviously. But
Speaker 1: it was reported through a leaker that Facebook had known
Speaker 1: how harmful Facebook and Instagram were two young users, and
Speaker 1: not only did they conceal that information, but they actually
Speaker 1: tried to get rid of that information. They knew that
Speaker 1: their algorithm was making teenage girls uh like suicidal and
Speaker 1: having eating disorders. Like they knew this to be true
Speaker 1: and did not do and they just continued to prioritize
Speaker 1: profit over the mental health of the whole generation. In
Speaker 1: a nutshell, what their their own research concluded was that
Speaker 1: facebooks it has to have its business model has to
Speaker 1: be on polarization and spreading hatred because the more angry
Speaker 1: that people are I guess, I don't know this is how.
Speaker 1: This is what they figured out. The more angry that
Speaker 1: people are then the longer they spent on Facebook, the
Speaker 1: longer they spent on Facebook, the more likely they are
Speaker 1: to click and add. When they click and add, Facebook
Speaker 1: gets money. So they made you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: at the risk of I guess this is a public
Speaker 1: health thing, right, at the risk of public health. They
Speaker 1: chose the profit margins over the good of the people.
Speaker 1: And then and then on top of that, a few
Speaker 1: days later, you know, the whole ship just gonna like crash,
Speaker 1: like out the blue, like we're yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that was an accident there, like doing something quick.
Speaker 1: Look over here, child, Yeah that I mean to demand
Speaker 1: behind the curtain, they could have tried to be a
Speaker 1: little bit more. I don't less obvious that that is.
Speaker 1: That's like some movie ship right there. It's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, the leaker came out. It was either a
Speaker 1: distraction or was totally like taking my ball and going home, like,
Speaker 1: oh really, you guys are gonna call us out for
Speaker 1: making teen girls suicidal. Well, I guess I guess we'll
Speaker 1: just take away Facebook. Then, I guess you just can't
Speaker 1: have it if you don't appreciate what you have. Well, earlier,
Speaker 1: we were talking about how much money Mark Zuckerberg lost
Speaker 1: you even though the point that you were making is
Speaker 1: like seven billion dollars to him, ain't nothing that's true.
Speaker 1: But I don't think I don't think most people are
Speaker 1: willing to lose seven billion dollars just to do some
Speaker 1: Nena na boo bu ship you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I think I think it was much more like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, the documents have come out, what do we do? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the shadowy figures that like control Zuckerberg's limbs via like
Speaker 1: satellite or whatever and like make his face to human
Speaker 1: facial expressions, sat them down there, Like, look, bro, can
Speaker 1: I take this out? We have to continue to extract
Speaker 1: profit out of the suffering of children. I mean, people
Speaker 1: realize that it's happening so well. The thing is, Facebook
Speaker 1: has to be one of the biggest, most powerful companies
Speaker 1: to ever have existed in the history. If you, I mean,
Speaker 1: if like if companies that are far smaller than Facebook
Speaker 1: have existed over the years and have like just from
Speaker 1: the sheer greed and from the from the sheer like
Speaker 1: implicit greed that that's there with like a corporate structure.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, They've reached havoc on generations
Speaker 1: of the world. What the funk do y'all really think
Speaker 1: the like most powerful one out of those in the
Speaker 1: history of humanity is gonna do you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like like, this is just this ship because it's been
Speaker 1: leak The book hasn't been written on what the fun
Speaker 1: Facebook is doing or what they're gonna be responsible for.
Speaker 1: So stay tuned on that ship. This is just some
Speaker 1: surface ship. Going back to the nanny Nannie Boo boo hypothesis, However,
Speaker 1: I mean this picture also Mark Zuckerberg, like riben a
Speaker 1: fat line in his office like, yeah, shut it all down.
Speaker 1: What do you mean, sir? Yes said shut it all down, sir,
Speaker 1: You'll lose billions of dollars. I can fu dude. If
Speaker 1: they don't appreciate me, they will see And it's just
Speaker 1: like line after line, no shirt on. That's the social
Speaker 1: network version of So I don't know, Nannie booboo is
Speaker 1: still plausible. That's the Jesse Eisenberg Zuckerberg, that berg Berg
Speaker 1: an never Berg connected. Wow, Oh yeah, what's the what else? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What else with your Oh yoh me. I'm I've got
Speaker 1: this single that I got coming out soon. I finally
Speaker 1: made the Hometown Joint, you know what I'm saying. I
Speaker 1: got the Savannah the Savannah Joint. So, you know, like
Speaker 1: the thing is, I'm just now it's like I've been
Speaker 1: doing the whole thing independent for a while, but the
Speaker 1: last few projects that I've done have been with like
Speaker 1: small indie labels, you know what I'm saying. So in
Speaker 1: a way, it's kind of like I'm out of the
Speaker 1: loop of like consistently releasing my own music on my own.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be working with
Speaker 1: the label for the album, but like I just wanted
Speaker 1: to put out just some random songs leading up to it.
Speaker 1: So right now I'm in the process of like you know,
Speaker 1: it's almost like I'm starting from scratch, like I'm a
Speaker 1: new artist. It's like, oh man, all right, I gotta
Speaker 1: get get in on this TikTok thing. All right, let
Speaker 1: me start doing Let's start making TikTok videos and ship
Speaker 1: and oh man, I guess I have to start paying
Speaker 1: more attention to my Instagram show. So I'm going through
Speaker 1: a lot of emotions. A lot of that is you know,
Speaker 1: like a learning experience in a way for me. So
Speaker 1: it's like it's added a layer of I guess, invigoration,
Speaker 1: because you know, I don't like doing ship unless I
Speaker 1: can get good at it. So it's one of those
Speaker 1: things same. Oh my god, we're the same. I don't like, like,
Speaker 1: I don't like playing board games with people, like only Scrabble,
Speaker 1: because I could dominate everything. I know how to play
Speaker 1: exactly every chess. I have to learn the rules of
Speaker 1: new game, and you're gonna beat me the first five
Speaker 1: times that, like the I saw I got out of
Speaker 1: gaming and stuff. Whenever like any of my friends like, yo,
Speaker 1: let's play Call of Duty, I'm like, bet, let's get it.
Speaker 1: I'm like pulling out the version from like two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight. They're looking at me, like, yo, what you're doing.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I can't, I can't do it.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Yeah, so I'm doing that whole thing with
Speaker 1: the song and stuff. And you know that we're gonna
Speaker 1: be hearing more about that in November because that's when
Speaker 1: it's coming out. I don't want to bother teasing it now,
Speaker 1: but to let people know that there is new music
Speaker 1: coming out and um yeah, so what we got going
Speaker 1: on today on the show. So today on the show,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go on to part two, continuation of our
Speaker 1: topic from last week, discussing the rise of fascism potential
Speaker 1: for a coup in Brazil with UM writer researcher author
Speaker 1: of the new book The End of the End of History.
Speaker 1: Alex Hoculey was based in Sal Paulo, Brazil, and UH
Speaker 1: has written on the topic of UM. You know Brazilian
Speaker 1: fascism and you know that it's threats to democracy for
Speaker 1: Jackoman and other outlets. So after the jump, we'll be
Speaker 1: getting into it with Alex, and then afterwards we'll be
Speaker 1: coming back to talk a little bit about other manifestations
Speaker 1: of of of political unrest and hip hop UM with
Speaker 1: a couple of artists at are Real Dope. So stay
Speaker 1: tuned for that. Any ready, let's get it and go.
Speaker 1: Let's go. So today I'm excited to be joined by
Speaker 1: Alex Hoculey, UM writer and researcher based in South Polo,
Speaker 1: host of the Bunk of Cast podcast and author of
Speaker 1: the recent book The End of the End of History
Speaker 1: here to talk to us a little bit about UM,
Speaker 1: the anti Bosonaro protests that took place over the weekend,
Speaker 1: as well as just the general context in which they're Um,
Speaker 1: they've taken place. So Alex, how are you today? I'm
Speaker 1: I'm reasonably well, thank you. Yeah, it's a bit chilly
Speaker 1: here in in some Follo. We're not fully out of
Speaker 1: winter yet, but I'm really yeah yeah. Um, is it
Speaker 1: rain a lot in South Polo. It rained a ton
Speaker 1: when I lived in port Olegry, just like all the time.
Speaker 1: It's super clue me. It depends what your standards are.
Speaker 1: I used to live in London, so by contrast, and
Speaker 1: Polo doesn't rain very much. No, all right, well let's
Speaker 1: get into it. Um. Let's start off. I'd love to
Speaker 1: hear um about how it went over the weekend. We
Speaker 1: talked a little bit last week in the lead up
Speaker 1: to this episode, UM that there would be some anti
Speaker 1: Bosonaro protests across for the in response to the Pro
Speaker 1: Bowlsonario protests I took place in September. So what was
Speaker 1: the turnout and what was the coalition like industry. It's well,
Speaker 1: I mean I was here in some follow I still am,
Speaker 1: and I'd gone along to the protests on Sunday and
Speaker 1: these were set up to be the first big anti
Speaker 1: Bolsonado protests on the left, and that's an important qualification
Speaker 1: on the left for quite a while, for quite a
Speaker 1: couple of months, since since around June or something was
Speaker 1: the last one. UM. The turnout was decent, but at
Speaker 1: the same time the protests lacked a bit of energy
Speaker 1: and was strangely fragmented, based around uh, different activist groups
Speaker 1: on the streets, different parties or for example, the student
Speaker 1: unions or different trade unions, and so as a consequence, uh,
Speaker 1: it maybe wasn't a kind of massive show of force
Speaker 1: on the part of the left um in the way
Speaker 1: that might have been expected. I think an important the
Speaker 1: backdrop to this, and I guess the baseline against which
Speaker 1: we compare these left wing protests have been recent protests
Speaker 1: by the right. So on on September the seventh, and
Speaker 1: I guess we'll come along, we'll come on to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit more about that. But both there were
Speaker 1: probol Snado protests, which was the biggest organized demonstration by
Speaker 1: pro Bowls forces since he was elected in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: and that one mobilized a hundred thousand plus people in
Speaker 1: tom Pollo and in Brazilia the federal capital UM, but
Speaker 1: not in other other state capitals and so that was
Speaker 1: a big turnout, but obviously there was a huge amount
Speaker 1: invested into that, both both kind of morally as well
Speaker 1: as financially. Uh and so that was seen to be
Speaker 1: a bit of a flaw. Then a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: ago you had right wing anti BOLSNATO demonstrations. Um, if
Speaker 1: you can do that. So they are groups who led
Speaker 1: by groups like the Free Brazil movement for example, or
Speaker 1: come to this Treats, which were groups that were formed
Speaker 1: around to fight for the impeachment of the Workers Party
Speaker 1: president at the time, Juma Hussat, something they ultimately succeeded
Speaker 1: in in in pushing, albeit you know, with a lot
Speaker 1: of parliamentary maneuvering that went on behind that to lead
Speaker 1: to the parliamentary coup. Of these groups then, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you were to ask them and if they had
Speaker 1: to respond, honestly, I'm pretty sure all of them would
Speaker 1: have voted for Bosonado. But they see themselves as more liberal,
Speaker 1: I mean liberal, not in the American sense meaning left wing,
Speaker 1: but liberal in the sense of economically liberal. Right, So
Speaker 1: they're kind of neoliberal groups who don't identify with the
Speaker 1: sort of uh more kind of culture war orientation of
Speaker 1: Bosonado and maybe reject some of the more obvious or
Speaker 1: naked authoritarianism. But you know, ultimately these are these are
Speaker 1: these are both not East does with buyer's remorse, if
Speaker 1: you want to put it that way. UM. And they
Speaker 1: manage very small numbers, They manage very small numbers, and
Speaker 1: I think that proves that that sort of politics just
Speaker 1: has no base in Brazil today. And so all the
Speaker 1: right wing who had previously been Antique Juma, who had
Speaker 1: been anti workers party, voted for Bolsonado, and now the
Speaker 1: electorate is pretty polarized between Bolsonado and uh looking and
Speaker 1: the left then probably looking to vote Lula in in
Speaker 1: in So in that context, you know, how did the
Speaker 1: left wing protest do? It was okay, but it wasn't uh.
Speaker 1: You know, it was still mainly the sort of activist
Speaker 1: basis of different groups of different parties without real sort
Speaker 1: of mass support. And so I think in some of
Speaker 1: the coverage I was reading UM there were some UM
Speaker 1: folks interviewed who were around for April ten, imagine eighty four,
Speaker 1: and like sort of hoping that this moment could be
Speaker 1: similar to that one UM in Brazil and that it
Speaker 1: was a watershed moment for the end of the military dictatorship,
Speaker 1: and so I was wondering what you might think the
Speaker 1: potential impacts would be of this protest, though it did
Speaker 1: not have perhaps the numbers, the show of force that
Speaker 1: folks were hoping that it would. Yeah, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: strange to kind of read the political temperature. I think
Speaker 1: there's an element of, you know, we're a year away
Speaker 1: from the election. There's an element maybe just of let's
Speaker 1: just wait until the election. Bolsonarto looks pretty likely to lose,
Speaker 1: you know, he's pulling it around in the first round.
Speaker 1: Brasil has two rounds of presidential election, so the first
Speaker 1: two front runners go to a second round if neither
Speaker 1: achieves over and so Bolsono in the first round is
Speaker 1: pulling and in the second round only round I e
Speaker 1: showing he has a very hardcore base which is not
Speaker 1: abandoning him and won't abandon him. But he's not able
Speaker 1: to reach very far beyond that. I suspect when an
Speaker 1: election comes he'll be able to reach a little bit further,
Speaker 1: especially as it will be against Lula um former president
Speaker 1: of the Workers Party, who is uh well, who's still
Speaker 1: hated by you know, a section of a verity substantial
Speaker 1: section of the population still, so I think the reality
Speaker 1: is that the protests won't have kind of transformed anything,
Speaker 1: and there's a sense of well still a sense of exhaustion,
Speaker 1: you know, the brazil has and then this is an
Speaker 1: important context had on the first kind of political level,
Speaker 1: had waves of mobilization since which have been very important,
Speaker 1: and there are sequences of protests one after the other, uh,
Speaker 1: both on the left and then especially on the right.
Speaker 1: And there's maybe an element of just exhaustion that there
Speaker 1: was a very intense period of five years of mobilive
Speaker 1: stream mobilizations which has now been exhausted. Then you have
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Then you have a severe economic crisis which
Speaker 1: still continues. Brasil hasn't really recovered from the crisis of
Speaker 1: and then on top of that you have the fact
Speaker 1: that prices are rising pretty severely, so there's a lot
Speaker 1: of inflation fuel and food price inflation, which is buying
Speaker 1: really hard. You know, like having a barbecue and having
Speaker 1: beef is a pretty big part of Brazilian culture and
Speaker 1: you lived in the south there to yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: big across the country, and you know, Brazilians aren't able
Speaker 1: to beef now because or you know me people have
Speaker 1: had to really cut their consumption of beef because prices
Speaker 1: have written so much. But also chicken, pork, rice, beans, everything,
Speaker 1: all the staples, um, And so at the moment, there's
Speaker 1: just a sense of like maybe kind of hunkering down. Um,
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about kind of what could change,
Speaker 1: if I want to you know, make some prognoses, UM.
Speaker 1: I think one thing to keep an eye on in
Speaker 1: terms of whether people will be driven to the streets,
Speaker 1: whether there whether there will be some you know, real
Speaker 1: anger against Bols rather than just a sense of slumping
Speaker 1: towards the next election. There's the fact that Brazil is
Speaker 1: facing possible blackouts, like rolling blackouts because there has been
Speaker 1: a lot of drought, which means that the hydro power
Speaker 1: plants don't have enough water and uh, and so they're
Speaker 1: happy to depend on some sort of other energy sources.
Speaker 1: And there looks like they'll have to be some sort
Speaker 1: of rationing and blackouts. If that happens, that might be
Speaker 1: a bit of a trigger and who knows where that
Speaker 1: might lead. But I think it's worth you know, kind
Speaker 1: of we tried to look across the rest of the continent.
Speaker 1: And if you can see the sort of mass demonstrations
Speaker 1: and uprisings you've had in Colombia, in Ecuador and in
Speaker 1: Chile over the past two years, um one one, you know,
Speaker 1: and all of those into different degrees driven by you know,
Speaker 1: sudden increases and prices or in taxes and things like that,
Speaker 1: it's not impossible that something similar happens in Brazil. Oh.
Speaker 1: Sorry you it's snagged for a second, so it's just
Speaker 1: pausing to let it catch up. Um. But um, in
Speaker 1: your peace and um Jacobin, you said that a coup
Speaker 1: is perhaps more likely than we herewd in the States
Speaker 1: and the lead up to last year's presidential election, but
Speaker 1: still unlikely. And I wondered if you could break down
Speaker 1: for us a little bit of why I think that is. Yeah, So,
Speaker 1: I mean I would kind of discourage any comparisons to
Speaker 1: the US, I think, just to make this clear, or
Speaker 1: at least to make my perspective clear. I don't think
Speaker 1: there was any risk whatsoever of a coup in the
Speaker 1: US generate six of completely overblown. It was just a
Speaker 1: couple of malcontents being angry and police force, you know,
Speaker 1: forces let them into the capital and nothing really happened,
Speaker 1: there's no risk of the military or sections of the
Speaker 1: establishment breaking with democratic norms and backing Trump to to
Speaker 1: remain in power. I don't think that was the case
Speaker 1: at all. In Brazil, the situation is obviously far more
Speaker 1: precarious one because democracy UM, such as it is, is
Speaker 1: much less consolidated. The elite are less wedded to kind
Speaker 1: of the institutional reality, the kind of general kind of
Speaker 1: norms and things like that. UM and you know, democrat
Speaker 1: has been seriously weak and since the a sixteen parliamentary
Speaker 1: coup or institutional coup against Juma Josaphim of the Workers
Speaker 1: Party UM and you know, Bolsonado to a certain extent
Speaker 1: represented the consummation of that coup because you had kind
Speaker 1: of new, clean elections which sort of wiped the slate
Speaker 1: clean and made everybody forget somehow that this institutional rupture
Speaker 1: had happened. Bolsonado, wild in power, has consistently threatened institutions,
Speaker 1: and not necessarily democratic institutions. I mean, most of his
Speaker 1: recent fire has been turned against the Supreme Court, which
Speaker 1: is you know, not a it's a countermajoritarian institution, right,
Speaker 1: It's not UM, it's not a representative of the people
Speaker 1: who the people elect. UM. But so it kind of
Speaker 1: has this weird sort of shadow theater element to it,
Speaker 1: where Bolsonado is fighting with other powers. UM. So you know,
Speaker 1: he's there sat in the presidential palace, you know, firing
Speaker 1: barbs at the Supreme Court, and that's all often Brazilia, UM,
Speaker 1: and like it kind of doesn't involve the massive people, right,
Speaker 1: So it's kind of kind of has this weird sort
Speaker 1: of spectral quality to it. Nevertheless, the threats are you know,
Speaker 1: concerning UM, but there I don't think they're he I mean,
Speaker 1: he's aware that he doesn't have mass support, and so
Speaker 1: it's not like, um, you'd have a repeat of sort
Speaker 1: of the nineteen sixty four military coup in Brazil, which
Speaker 1: lasted twenty one years and had the support of the military,
Speaker 1: the whole of the bourgeoisie, large parts of the kind
Speaker 1: of the middle class, and the United States. You know,
Speaker 1: that whole configuration, which is a kind of classic Cold
Speaker 1: War sort of coup, wouldn't happen today. So despite some
Speaker 1: sort of left wing fears of suddenly they're being tanks
Speaker 1: on the streets, I don't see that happening UM, or
Speaker 1: at least if there were to be some coup or
Speaker 1: some more obvious rupture with democracy, it would happen in
Speaker 1: in a different way. And and and if you look around
Speaker 1: the world, you know these things nowadays are happening much
Speaker 1: more or um kind of gradual way. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you just want to take the example of like
Speaker 1: Turkey or of Hungry, all of which are sliding towards authoritarianism,
Speaker 1: it's all done by elected presidents who kind of wear
Speaker 1: away at at democratic checks and balances, um. And that
Speaker 1: would be possible in Brazil, would Bolsonado be re elected,
Speaker 1: But that at the moment isn't looking plausible. So a
Speaker 1: lot of the worry in the lead up to the
Speaker 1: September the seventh protests, which were the big pro pro
Speaker 1: Bowlsonado protests um were was that they would try to
Speaker 1: invade the Supreme Court building or even try to launch
Speaker 1: a coup. And then there's questions over like who the
Speaker 1: major institutional forces and actors are there who would back that, right,
Speaker 1: so you have to it's you know, president just can't
Speaker 1: design to do a coup, right, you know, you need
Speaker 1: you need, you need troops or something, right, and his
Speaker 1: his um administration is packed to the rafters with military officers,
Speaker 1: both at the level of his cabinet with like top generals,
Speaker 1: but also throughout the kind of top levels of the
Speaker 1: federal administration. He's packed it with military men um, so
Speaker 1: they are kind of guaranteeing his his um his presidency.
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, it's not entirely clear whether
Speaker 1: they want to break with democracy and whether they would
Speaker 1: want to rule directly, whether they want the responsibility for that.
Speaker 1: They've already overseen this Polson not appeared, which has been
Speaker 1: a disaster economically in health terms, you know, Polsandre has
Speaker 1: obviously like denied the pandemic and not lifted a finger
Speaker 1: to do anything, declined to buy vaccines when he could
Speaker 1: above vaccines. People in the administration try to buy vaccines,
Speaker 1: but with some like little graph scheme where they get
Speaker 1: paid extra to buy vaccines and stuff like that. So
Speaker 1: it's obviously been a complete social and political disaster. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if the military, you know, want more
Speaker 1: of that basically, so that's not entirely clear. They might
Speaker 1: be more interested in maintaining their own privileges um and
Speaker 1: being seen as defenders of the constitution than in actually
Speaker 1: taking power and ruling directly, so that's not entirely clear.
Speaker 1: The other element is Brazil's massive military police forces. Now
Speaker 1: these are police forces. They're like neat cops, but they're
Speaker 1: also riot cops and responsible for a huge number of
Speaker 1: murders every year. Uh, they are in they're organized at
Speaker 1: a state level, but and so they're commanded by the
Speaker 1: state governors. But they in total number larger than the army,
Speaker 1: and it's actually the largest armed body of men in
Speaker 1: Latin America. And they are very very pro Bowlsonado. And
Speaker 1: that's concerning There was a lot of talk before September
Speaker 1: seven that these police officers would maybe mutiny or at
Speaker 1: the very least show up at the demonstrations, either in
Speaker 1: uniform or in plain clothes, something that's illegal. By the way,
Speaker 1: you're not allowed as a police officer to to kind
Speaker 1: of manifest yourself politically. That didn't seem to happen, so
Speaker 1: you know, that's good at least. Um So you know,
Speaker 1: if you're asking me to kind of draw to to
Speaker 1: sort of sum up and asked, say, what, how likely
Speaker 1: who actually would be? I think the the scenario would
Speaker 1: demand some sort of wider instability or outbreak of mass
Speaker 1: disorder of some sort for then the military to feel
Speaker 1: they have to intervene to to kind of give just
Speaker 1: cause for a coup. I don't think there would be
Speaker 1: a coup kind of um, you know, like like lightning
Speaker 1: on a on a on a on a clear day
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Yeah. And even given some of the
Speaker 1: economic pecurity that the Brazilian working classes facing, given the pandemic,
Speaker 1: and you know, the fallout for the economy, um, that
Speaker 1: sort of social upheaval doesn't seem likely. No, exactly, I
Speaker 1: mean if there's I mean, of course, if there were
Speaker 1: some sort of uh, you know, just for the sake
Speaker 1: of argument, if they're mass protests and riots with rolling blackouts.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is completely purely speculative. UM. I don't
Speaker 1: like to kind of go go into kind of fearmongering
Speaker 1: or whatever. But but if in that in that scenario,
Speaker 1: then yes, the middle the dream might feel they need
Speaker 1: to put you know, put put troops on the streets,
Speaker 1: which is something that they did in in Rio relatively recently,
Speaker 1: where they took over policing um, in response to the
Speaker 1: kind of insecurity situation there. But you know, it was
Speaker 1: fairly badly handled, responsible for a lot of killings, the
Speaker 1: security situation didn't improve, so it ended up being a
Speaker 1: little bit for show. So it's not again, I think
Speaker 1: the likelihood would be more that the military would enter
Speaker 1: into like a sort of peacekeeping capacity. Let's and I
Speaker 1: say that kind of ironically because Brazil did send peacekeeping
Speaker 1: troops to Haiti and had a big presence there, and
Speaker 1: we're responsible for loads of human rights abuses and things
Speaker 1: like that. So, um, when I say peacekeeping, I don't
Speaker 1: mean to say that that's like a good thing, um.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, so I I guess, you know, summing up,
Speaker 1: I think they would need to be some sort of
Speaker 1: they would need to see some sort of just cause
Speaker 1: of some sort of mass unrest for them to then intervene.
Speaker 1: Well that's good news, I mean in the sense that
Speaker 1: it seems like despite some of the fears, um, it
Speaker 1: would have been stoked recently, especially I think um in
Speaker 1: the international media that's been picked up a lot um
Speaker 1: regarding the potential for a coup. Um seems like, you know,
Speaker 1: the elections coming up next year hopefully be a peaceful
Speaker 1: transfer of power, and if you could, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure there would be a peaceful transfer. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: this is the thing. I'm not sure there'll be a
Speaker 1: peaceful transfer of power. I mean, I think that's not
Speaker 1: a will kick up a fuss in some sense. And
Speaker 1: has already been uh semming the seeds for a long time,
Speaker 1: arguing that the voting system, which is in Brazil fully electronic,
Speaker 1: were far more advanced in the United States here Um,
Speaker 1: no hanging chats or anything like that. UM. And it's
Speaker 1: been something which has no which has never had any
Speaker 1: credible allegations of fraud against it. The system is pretty secure,
Speaker 1: it works, etcetera. It delivers results pretty immediately, and that's that.
Speaker 1: But Bolson has been for a long time trying to
Speaker 1: undermine faith in it, and of course it has no
Speaker 1: basis in reality. But that, of course, that's not the point.
Speaker 1: The point is to demoralize, um, demoralized the election, demoralized
Speaker 1: people's faith in democracy. Uh And and so he already
Speaker 1: has alleged that the election which he won was fraudulent,
Speaker 1: which of course is It is kind of question. But
Speaker 1: again this is kind of following Trump's tactics UM and
Speaker 1: often quite explicitly self consciously. UM. And he's going to
Speaker 1: do the same in UM. And there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot of kind of you know, propaganda from him. You
Speaker 1: know what is now called fake news, but I prefer
Speaker 1: to just be more traditional and called propaganda. Um and
Speaker 1: uh and and so I think you know, whether he
Speaker 1: leaves office peacefully or not, I mean, it depends what
Speaker 1: you define its peacefully. I think there will be some
Speaker 1: sort of resistance on his part, some lawsuits, maybe they'll
Speaker 1: be protests, because of course his hardcore base is relatively strong.
Speaker 1: It's not a huge part of the population, but it's
Speaker 1: maybe a nucleus of like or something, and you know
Speaker 1: that's still substantial enough, uh that it can cause you know,
Speaker 1: serious disruption. And the So I think, at least in
Speaker 1: terms of the most ideal the sectors which are most
Speaker 1: ideologically wed to him, I mean the real hardcore kind
Speaker 1: of nutty culture warrior types who follow him and hardcore authoritarians.
Speaker 1: They they might not accept the election result. And I
Speaker 1: don't know what goes from there, you know what what
Speaker 1: the next step there would be, Um, whether there would
Speaker 1: be some kind of here sort of um making a
Speaker 1: US comparison to spite what I said earlier, like a
Speaker 1: kind of generally six sort of moment. But perhaps a
Speaker 1: bit more destabilizing. I think the question you always have
Speaker 1: to ask, you know, is not like, oh, are there
Speaker 1: lots of people who are angry and are going to
Speaker 1: cause a mess, but you know, what are the institutional
Speaker 1: forces and what are the balance of forces kind of
Speaker 1: across society, And I think a lot of institutional actors
Speaker 1: you know of Bolsonado were to lose the election pretty clearly,
Speaker 1: um and the winner was to be Lula, who would
Speaker 1: then have stitched up a lot of deals with a
Speaker 1: lot of the olderly, with a lot of the military establishment,
Speaker 1: with a lot of congressmen who trace their own histories
Speaker 1: back to the dictatorship when they were kind of the
Speaker 1: civil participants in the dictatorship rights a lot of bad guys.
Speaker 1: Lula will have stitched up a lot of deals with them,
Speaker 1: and he is currently doing that right. So it's important
Speaker 1: also to note as an asside that any Lula government
Speaker 1: will not be a radical government. It won't even be
Speaker 1: as moderate center left as it was the first time
Speaker 1: round from two thousand and two until it will be
Speaker 1: a government which is completely compromised um with the old establishment.
Speaker 1: So will it be better than Bolsonado, for sure, But
Speaker 1: there should be no real left wing enthusiasm for the
Speaker 1: return of Lula, maybe only relief that Polsonado has gone.
Speaker 1: Um So, I think if Lula is able to manage
Speaker 1: that and able to do deals, and if if Lula
Speaker 1: does one thing, it's it's does deals. I mean, that
Speaker 1: is his thing. He's a great conciliator. Ever since his
Speaker 1: more radical trade union days in the seventies. He was
Speaker 1: a guy who always made deals right, who always found
Speaker 1: a middle path, is able, is good with people and
Speaker 1: so on. Um So, if he's able to do that,
Speaker 1: then why would a lot of the elites decided to,
Speaker 1: you know, support Bolsonado's claims that he was frauded out
Speaker 1: of of an election. The instability ensuing from that, um
Speaker 1: is probably not worth their while because ultimately they're far
Speaker 1: more narrowly self interested in, for example, making their sectional
Speaker 1: interests known and defended. So, you know, if finance is
Speaker 1: happy with Lula, if Lula is not gonna curtail Agri
Speaker 1: business too much, which is you know, one of the
Speaker 1: main bolson those main backers, then I think they'll go
Speaker 1: along with that. You know, It's important to note that
Speaker 1: among Bolsonados, like capitalists support the hardest core of that
Speaker 1: is Actrive business and as well as some kind of
Speaker 1: sections of kind of big retail and things like that. Um,
Speaker 1: he's kind of lost a lot of the sort of
Speaker 1: financial classes support because they because Bolsonado hasn't been a
Speaker 1: total hardcore neoliberal in terms of prioritizing some various kind
Speaker 1: of reforms right kind of tax reform, pension reform and
Speaker 1: things like that, and as a consequence, um, and as
Speaker 1: a consequence like he they don't see him necessarily as
Speaker 1: their guy. Agrive business still sees Bolsonado as their guy,
Speaker 1: but they're not ideologically wedded him on mass you know,
Speaker 1: it's still kind of a sectional interest. It's just you know,
Speaker 1: kind of narrowly narrowly self interested in economic terms. So um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I'm not sure that they would necessarily force erupt
Speaker 1: with the democracy for all the problems that that would cause.
Speaker 1: If I can highlight like another thing of kind of
Speaker 1: what might still happen, because there's been a lot of
Speaker 1: talk about impeachment of polson There's been over a there's
Speaker 1: been over a hundred impeachment requests filed against him. And
Speaker 1: because of the configuration of Congress and his Bolsonado's appointees
Speaker 1: and everything that won't advance because he's basically bought off
Speaker 1: Congress with enough pork pork barrel spending that they won't
Speaker 1: seek to impeach him. But if he's losing support and
Speaker 1: there's a door now opening to impeach him, then they
Speaker 1: the conditions might be changing and make it more likely.
Speaker 1: The reason they might want to impeach Bolsonado is that
Speaker 1: they know that the elections pull right between Bolsonado and Lula,
Speaker 1: neither of whom they want. And so if there's a
Speaker 1: possibility of a potential third way candidate, and of course,
Speaker 1: like all the newspapers, all the major newspapers have been
Speaker 1: talking up various different third way candidates, and it's the
Speaker 1: usual thing, you know, they kind of float a blue
Speaker 1: and then they go, hey, this guy is young and
Speaker 1: innovative and modern, and we're going to bring him in
Speaker 1: and exactly and what happens is that, like you know,
Speaker 1: he flatlines in the polls and nothing happens, and no
Speaker 1: one talks about him for again, like after a month. Um,
Speaker 1: and that's happening now and like it will continue happening.
Speaker 1: But the reality is that none of them are pulling
Speaker 1: over like in double digits and that's not going to change.
Speaker 1: And the parties are also themselves like, oh now kind
Speaker 1: of because Brazil has a hugely fragmented party system, has
Speaker 1: like twenty seven different parties, and so they're a lot
Speaker 1: of them are now joining up together because of some
Speaker 1: electoral form allowing them to to kind of combine into
Speaker 1: into sort of new party unions, and that they're now
Speaker 1: concerned with that, which also shows that they're not interested
Speaker 1: in necessarily in fielding a third party candidate, because a
Speaker 1: third way candidates and so to speak, because they're mainly
Speaker 1: guarantee looking at kind of guaranteeing enough TV air time
Speaker 1: and getting congress people re elected and so on. So
Speaker 1: I see, so because of that inability to really get
Speaker 1: any wind behind a third way candidate, the only way
Speaker 1: they could maybe managed that would be to take Polsonado
Speaker 1: out of the game and therefore open up the field
Speaker 1: on the right for a kind of more traditional right
Speaker 1: wing figure who is in Pulsonado, And so that might
Speaker 1: that might yet happen, whether it's in a whether it's
Speaker 1: an impeachment or um the canceling of his electoral slate,
Speaker 1: which has never ever happened before, but because they have
Speaker 1: all these allegations of improper use of fake news during
Speaker 1: the election, especially via what's happened lots of kind of
Speaker 1: illegal funding, which is something that was obviously which obviously
Speaker 1: fell foul of electoral rules back in and everybody knew
Speaker 1: about it, but they were never going to act on it. Um.
Speaker 1: You know that the Supreme Court was never gonna act
Speaker 1: on it. But they've had this in their back pocket
Speaker 1: and so they might still yet act on it. And
Speaker 1: that would mean not just Polsonado being impeached, but it
Speaker 1: actually would mean that the slate would be canceled. The
Speaker 1: vice president would also lose his position, and everybody running
Speaker 1: with them would be out, would be out exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that whole presidential state would be out and then
Speaker 1: until the election, so let's say, you know whatever, it
Speaker 1: would be ten months or you know, until that would
Speaker 1: until the election, Brazil would then elect a president indirectly
Speaker 1: in Congress, right, so kind of parliamentary system, um. And
Speaker 1: that's the big concern that that if that were a
Speaker 1: short term then it would matter so much and there'd
Speaker 1: be new there'll be new elections as planned in October.
Speaker 1: But Brazil's Congress has always been trying to maneuver towards
Speaker 1: a parliamentary system, which would be really and anti democratic
Speaker 1: because congress is already kind of a mess um stock
Speaker 1: filled with you know, kind of a bunch of reactionaries. Um.
Speaker 1: And you know, the parliament, the congressional elections are much
Speaker 1: more sort of clientilistic than the presidential elections, which are
Speaker 1: kind of the most democratic part of Brazil's system. And
Speaker 1: if you and if you switch the parliamentary system, that
Speaker 1: basically means that that a bunch of congressmen who have
Speaker 1: no popularity whatsoever can then indirectly choose a president. And
Speaker 1: so they're always trying to maneuver towards that, and that's
Speaker 1: quite concerning. Um. So you know, when I say that
Speaker 1: there's no coup attempt or that that the risks of
Speaker 1: a coup are probably not that great, that isn't to
Speaker 1: say that Brazilian democracy is in a healthy state at all.
Speaker 1: I see, I appreciate you breaking it all down, um,
Speaker 1: And I wanted to see if you want to let
Speaker 1: people know where they could follow you, get your new
Speaker 1: book or anything like that. Yeah, no, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: I uh, I am active on on Alpha Bunga Bunga,
Speaker 1: which is at Bunga Cast on all social media or
Speaker 1: bunga cast dot com. That's um my global politics podcast
Speaker 1: with which which I co host with to other guys,
Speaker 1: George and Phil Um. We now have a big series
Speaker 1: coming out on generational poul Takes, which maybe your listeners
Speaker 1: would be interested in checking out. And my book The
Speaker 1: End of the End of History Is is on sale now,
Speaker 1: kind of covering uh this, this strange moment that we're
Speaker 1: living in of of an increasingly turbulent political world. All right, well,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here with us. Oh, let
Speaker 1: me get I gotta, I gotta Okay, So if this
Speaker 1: cat's name am Sita, real name Leandro Roque de ali Vera.
Speaker 1: It's been making music for more than a decade, Born
Speaker 1: um and based in saw Paolo Um. He's recorded three
Speaker 1: albums and in doing so built up a reputation as
Speaker 1: one of Brazil's top hip hop mcs. Um. It's also,
Speaker 1: in the past year two years, emerged as one of
Speaker 1: the country's most influential cultural figures. All right, let's check
Speaker 1: out this track real quick. So do we know if
Speaker 1: he's bosonar Rista. I get the feeling from the lyrics.
Speaker 1: He's not a Bolsonarousta in that his lyrics come across
Speaker 1: very like, you know, very laboratory, like diagnosing the ills
Speaker 1: of racism, the you know, the ills of our our
Speaker 1: history with enslavement and uh police repression, which like you know,
Speaker 1: Bolsonaro loves the police. What I understand, Bolsnaro hates the
Speaker 1: blacks and the pores. So I'm gonna I'm gonna assume
Speaker 1: there's like not they don't really. He looks way too
Speaker 1: cool to fuk with them. He looks way too cool,
Speaker 1: like I want to be this Nick's friends. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be your friend. Look at the look look at the
Speaker 1: stings with the little parts in the hair. Sorry found
Speaker 1: this picture of him. Yeah, they can't sure, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's looking fresh to death. And the couplings, Lord of mercy,
Speaker 1: the little wire and glasses, and the fucking beat goes
Speaker 1: hard and then you got you know, got mc going
Speaker 1: in talking about you know, the police van is a
Speaker 1: slave ship and the slums of the slave quarters he's
Speaker 1: talking about. He's like talking, you know, harkening back to Angola, Congo, Soweto,
Speaker 1: like his you know African Homelands and uh talking about
Speaker 1: Ben Lodden getting made in the USA and fucking talking
Speaker 1: about the KKK. And so he's talking about all these
Speaker 1: different like inter national intersections between you know, we're like
Speaker 1: we're at the middle of which comes like the Black
Speaker 1: Resilian struggle, which has many parallels to the Black American struggle.
Speaker 1: So beat goes hard hard, the lyrics go hard. Videos
Speaker 1: of note too, it's uh, it's got like a scene
Speaker 1: of workers revolt in like like would you I got
Speaker 1: plantation vibes, Although I don't know that they explicitly showed
Speaker 1: it was a plantation house. I'm sure I'm sure that
Speaker 1: parallel was the implication was. Um they're intentional. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: they're like like understated, but like definitely you know, trying
Speaker 1: to nod a little bit to it because I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're still living on a plantation hard. Instrumentally I was,
Speaker 1: I was making this comment before we came back from
Speaker 1: the jump, But instrumentally it makes me feel like old
Speaker 1: school uh Black Eyed Peas before Fergie, like those sort
Speaker 1: of beats. All right, enough of admiring homies wardrobe, who
Speaker 1: we got next or next? Okay, Um, this is not
Speaker 1: a hip hop song, and I don't think I've ever
Speaker 1: deviated from the genre of focus in the history of
Speaker 1: the show, but god damn, this is a banger, and
Speaker 1: AlSi Sauarez, who sings the song, is ninety fucking years old,
Speaker 1: so I thought I had to give a shout out
Speaker 1: to the homie also while bringing attention to the fact
Speaker 1: that this song I'm get of feem dumundo, which means
Speaker 1: women at the end of the world. There's like a
Speaker 1: fucking feminist anthem in an arrow where both Scenaro's out
Speaker 1: here making jokes about rape and talking about how you know,
Speaker 1: women are idiots. Like, I feel like this is a
Speaker 1: really powerful song worth giving a listen to. Let's give
Speaker 1: it a spend real quick. Okay, yeah that yeah, that
Speaker 1: ship is dope. I love the instrumental for it, man,
Speaker 1: that piano pluck. You nailed it. You explain exactly why
Speaker 1: I felt because it's a good fit, because it's got
Speaker 1: this instrumental feeling like where it feels like it feels
Speaker 1: like any second the bars are gonna drop. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: feels like a beat, you know, like, yeah, that sounds
Speaker 1: like somebody made that be in an MPC. You know, up,
Speaker 1: shut up, I see, yeah, I can see West Ruler
Speaker 1: shout out of West like doing a little thing on
Speaker 1: the B pad with the piano. Which if no one
Speaker 1: has sampled this song, uh, maybe they should because it's yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, to get a loop going with the fucking
Speaker 1: in the background and ship. So why don't you tell
Speaker 1: the people what the songs about? So, um, the song
Speaker 1: it's it's it's the showcases feminist resistance to oppression. Um,
Speaker 1: in lines like on the avenue, I left there my
Speaker 1: black skin and my voice, my home, my loneliness. I
Speaker 1: threw it from the third floor. So it's sort of
Speaker 1: like about throwing out all the ship that's like holding
Speaker 1: you back with reference to you know, skin color with
Speaker 1: two gender uh, and sort of like rising above it,
Speaker 1: like laughing even in the face of insurmountable ops. You know.
Speaker 1: She described herself as a woman at the end of
Speaker 1: the world who will sing until the end, who will
Speaker 1: sing until the end of the world, and so um
Speaker 1: there was a lot of like violence against women and
Speaker 1: femicide going on in Brazil at the time that the
Speaker 1: song was written. Um, and so sort of like I
Speaker 1: guess giving it's sort of just like an anthem. So
Speaker 1: it's just like an anthem for like this backdrop of violence,
Speaker 1: of oppression, of just general struggle struggle against fascism, like
Speaker 1: you know, keeping your head high above that. While not
Speaker 1: overtly political and its content, it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where like it's inherently politiful and that it is resistance
Speaker 1: and embodies resistance and so I really nope, those are
Speaker 1: the best type of political songs in my opinion, best type.
Speaker 1: It's not preachy. It's not like, Hey, goes out and
Speaker 1: vote kids and then fucking corny as ship I do
Speaker 1: in my dumbass music. Um, Hey, you know it's true.
Speaker 1: I'm like so voting for for shareff. Who are you
Speaker 1: gonna come to solicitor general? It's not true. It's a style.
Speaker 1: It's a style corny as hell, and I and I
Speaker 1: embrace it. It's great but no, it's like understated but
Speaker 1: just empowering. It's good ship, don't know that's worth it?
Speaker 1: In this bit to tell good for you, good for
Speaker 1: you else Suarez and it's black is now. Our next
Speaker 1: song is a Yo Data by Jonga O Yo da
Speaker 1: Tigre means I have a tiger um and Jonga is
Speaker 1: a bella horizontal born rapper, who interestingly was among the
Speaker 1: finalists for Best International Rapper for the BT Hip Hop
Speaker 1: Awards last year. Um. In this track, John calls out
Speaker 1: racism against brack Resilians while taking a jab at balls
Speaker 1: Naro rhyming, whoever has the my color is a thief.
Speaker 1: Whoever has the color of Eric Clapton is a clapt
Speaker 1: To maniac. I'm sorry, that's hilarious to me, uh because
Speaker 1: he didn't the air Clapton end up being real racist
Speaker 1: against like immigrants or some ship. And I want thinking another, right, guy?
Speaker 1: There was something with air Clapton, you know, like him
Speaker 1: and who's the other guy? Um, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: one of these guitar playing white. Yeah, the ship Morrissey. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like you know, every every other day is like yeah,
Speaker 1: so Morrissey said this, Yo, So Morrissey said that we
Speaker 1: can't funk with Morrissey no more. And I'm sitting over here, like,
Speaker 1: who the fuck is Morrissey? Man? All right, you know, alright,
Speaker 1: I don't know cool, yeah, legit and Doll crucified me
Speaker 1: for this listeners, But like, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: could name a Eric Clapton song off the top of
Speaker 1: my head. But I remember his racist Tears in Heaven.
Speaker 1: Tears in Heaven, Tears in Heaven. I just couldn't name one.
Speaker 1: And what was the other one? He did a joint.
Speaker 1: There was a movie with John Travolta back in the
Speaker 1: day called Phenomenon, and he did the theme song for
Speaker 1: with baby Face. It was him and baby Face was
Speaker 1: called change the World, like if I could change the world.
Speaker 1: They sing it a lot better than that, But you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, really know anyway, I didn't know
Speaker 1: that was possible. I don't. Let's check out this damn song. Alright,
Speaker 1: let's yeah. He talks about how at the time of judgment,
Speaker 1: God is black and Brazilian. Love that um, And then
Speaker 1: in in this little Jabbitt Bossnarrow here he says, and
Speaker 1: to save the country a Christian ex military man who
Speaker 1: thinks that women getting together as a horhouse. So he's like,
Speaker 1: oh you think, oh, you think this guy, this Christian
Speaker 1: quote unquote Christian guy, that's quote unquote military guy who
Speaker 1: like thinks women are slugs. This guy is gonna save
Speaker 1: your country. Well, at the time of judgment, God is
Speaker 1: black and Brazilian, and he's gonna not gonna be pleased
Speaker 1: with this ship. So is he really popular? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's mad popular. So we also last year, I believe
Speaker 1: took home the MTV MIA Beat UH Brazil Awards, apparently
Speaker 1: it's a big deal. During his ward ship performer um
Speaker 1: on top of the roof of a building. Um. This
Speaker 1: is uh also gets back into the politics of his music,
Speaker 1: which like they are found throughout his music and music
Speaker 1: music videos and encourage you all to take a look
Speaker 1: at up them all lots of examples. But at this
Speaker 1: award show performance, he drove up home an anti resist
Speaker 1: racist message featuring background dancers for shirts imprinted with the
Speaker 1: slogan potterm dinose matar, which means stop killing us, which
Speaker 1: apparently in Brazil it's also a huge slogan for like
Speaker 1: the anti racist movement, which I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: like an offshoot of Black Lives Matter or just like
Speaker 1: the very simple statement of police talk killing us just
Speaker 1: has this resonance languages. Yeah, like it's going to be
Speaker 1: applied to any populations. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: like the inspiration from what's happening here or is it
Speaker 1: just literally that is Wow, we should probably look look
Speaker 1: at that because I mean, is that just too coin
Speaker 1: sidental movements right up? Straight up? I mean so much,
Speaker 1: so much. What I also I think is revealed in
Speaker 1: the music of m sid of of Elsa Suarez Jonga
Speaker 1: today is the parallels between the United States and Brazil.
Speaker 1: Outside of Oh we've talked about fascism and like they
Speaker 1: have the trump of the tropics down there, also just
Speaker 1: the development of like the slavery there's like three hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty years of slavery in Brazil, you know, the
Speaker 1: way the police are murdering black people, hyper capitalism all
Speaker 1: the ship, the way that like these similar forces have
Speaker 1: cooked up similar results for both of our both of
Speaker 1: our colonies. Yeah, I guess you could say. It's interesting
Speaker 1: how you see that in the music as well, with
Speaker 1: the themes that come up. Well, ship, we can only
Speaker 1: hope that we can only hope that they all that
Speaker 1: stuff like is defeated or quells down or admitted gate
Speaker 1: it to whatever extent it can be. It doesn't take
Speaker 1: of you, you know, gave me a little bit of
Speaker 1: hope that maybe all things are not lost. Um, but
Speaker 1: you never, I don't know. You're the smartest people. And
Speaker 1: he was a very smart man. You get caught off,
Speaker 1: you get caught I surprise sometimes like shoot him. Well,
Speaker 1: one thing that we do, one thing that we do
Speaker 1: know that we don't get caught off surprise with. That's it.
Speaker 1: We gotta end this ship fucking bars. They never catch
Speaker 1: me off. We will be back next week. But before
Speaker 1: we go, like the homie just said, we need some bars.
Speaker 1: So Joel please, my main man, can you can you
Speaker 1: bless us with some heat yo blue collar to beat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a scholet with the heat the rhoms at a premium.
Speaker 1: You try to get him cheap. That's why Bostonara got
Speaker 1: the right wingers in the street. So every time I moved,
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta be the street. It still is
Speaker 1: kind of here to miss to say it's I lllegit admit.
Speaker 1: He don't really like anybody with a clearly risk ground folks,
Speaker 1: clear folks of people who indigenous. You can even throw
Speaker 1: a little goose stepping in the mix. But this is
Speaker 1: in a sense we're preaching of the choir. I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to keep it dope and being creature you admire.
Speaker 1: Make a sucker, wrap a halt. Godam screeching on the
Speaker 1: tie Everything I say is crack minus either in the fire,
Speaker 1: it's dope. Knife and Lingua franca, take about. We're a
Speaker 1: couple of superheroes with Cape and cow Listen close and
Speaker 1: I'll break it down. Keep your damn mouth shut and
Speaker 1: give us a reparations now, Yeah, I don't Knife. I'm
Speaker 1: like you're listening to Waiting on Reparations for We're Black
Speaker 1: Resilience as well as Black America. Hurry up with all
Speaker 1: of it, hurry it all up, right, it all up,
Speaker 1: See you next week. Waitning on Reparations is the production
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
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