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Speaker 1: You're listening to waiting on reparations for production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Uh from port a Fellow NTY. The people love, Angory,

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Speaker 1: the hungry, the marching, the pushback on fascism, saying that

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Speaker 1: democracy watching the president and talk to you, don't walk through.

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Speaker 1: He jokes about raping the nieces, thousands of working class

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Speaker 1: people deceased from deceases, for rested lands where the trees

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Speaker 1: left the crease, and we got to defeat him by

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Speaker 1: vote or impeachment. And so day in the streets in

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Speaker 1: the capital where when all the masks and weaping flash

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Speaker 1: into the basket, goes by the parliament or by the ballot,

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. All that matters is banding together. So we

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Speaker 1: see the fascist fall. What's happening? What's good? People? I'm

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Speaker 1: dope knife, I'm little Franca and we are waiting our reparations.

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Speaker 1: You know what it is? Hey me my money? Hurry

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Speaker 1: a hell up with that? How are you doing? I

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Speaker 1: am fine. I just got out of city hall. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel like we had a good meeting.

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Speaker 1: Declared Columbus Day, Indigenous People's Day. Uh, so fucking fuck

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Speaker 1: you Columbus, burning in hell right now? Your day is

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Speaker 1: over and it is now Indigenous People's day here and

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Speaker 1: change probably a lot um. It was funny because in

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Speaker 1: our resolution that we passed, it's like, oh, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: seek ways to govern with like, you know, the ancestral

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Speaker 1: knowledge of the indigenous people whose lands has belonged to

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Speaker 1: I'm just right up with my colleagues. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if y'all want to do that, maybe we should consider

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Speaker 1: giving the land back. Yeah, like because think about it, okay,

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Speaker 1: because I've been studying land back a little bit, like

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Speaker 1: as a movement, and it's public lands. It's not like

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Speaker 1: all of the white people and black people when Mescan

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Speaker 1: people like in there, like the homes they owned and

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Speaker 1: their condos or whatever, we're gonna give their condo to

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Speaker 1: like the muscoge It's it's all. It's about public lands.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, you know what, why don't we just

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Speaker 1: give Why do we give them the park? Give him

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Speaker 1: the parks? Because like and got all these old white

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Speaker 1: people here in the commission Mey're like, oh, well, we'll

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Speaker 1: put up signs. I'm mom, I'm according the podcast. My

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Speaker 1: mom's here. She's looking out for the baby, making herself

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Speaker 1: a drink. Making yourself a drink. She's leaving. Now, just

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Speaker 1: start over. You gonna keep that keep going, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: have to keep it. A umm oh, I feel like

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Speaker 1: I'm back in toil again, Like oh ruined my prom night? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, and her generational living got to normalize it

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Speaker 1: as millennials and Gen Z become increasingly economically precarious living

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Speaker 1: with our parents, can't afford fucking rent anyway, kind of

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Speaker 1: things that are I'm sorry to me to cut you off.

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Speaker 1: What's up now? I was just speaking of the things

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Speaker 1: that are your multi gen generational or changing amongst the generations.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're of the Internet generation in particular, were

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Speaker 1: like the that millennial age that's like the last of

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Speaker 1: the people who were alive and kicking before the Internet

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Speaker 1: took over the world. Yeah, I don't like, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say I remember life before the Internet, like distinctly. I

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Speaker 1: remember when I when I first got the Internet, but

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Speaker 1: I don't have very distinct memories from before that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I was like seven or something when I first like

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Speaker 1: logged onto a O L or something. Yeah. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: see I'm I'm I'm I'm older than you. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I definitely remember, yeah, because for a long time.

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Speaker 1: I Mean, the thing is, it's hard for me to

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Speaker 1: remember what it was now, but like I remember that

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Speaker 1: I lived through it, you know what I mean. So

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Speaker 1: it's like I wasn't old enough that I was dry

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Speaker 1: been anywhere personally looking at map quests and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But I'm young enough to remember when people have to

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Speaker 1: use like map quests, when that was first becoming a

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Speaker 1: thing before GPS and even before map quest, when people

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Speaker 1: have to use like regular maps and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Like I remember going on road trips with my parents

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Speaker 1: when they have to use like regular maps because you

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Speaker 1: couldn't just look stuff up, and when you have to

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Speaker 1: use a thesaurus in a dictionary, and like encyclopedia is

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Speaker 1: like actual encyclopedia is not. I'll never forget when I

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Speaker 1: was on tour at one time, both me I like

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Speaker 1: shattered my tour manager's phone into a pool of water.

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Speaker 1: Not only did I smash the screen, I smashed it

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Speaker 1: into pool of water and mine got lost in Newberg,

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Speaker 1: New York. So like we were confronted with like how

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Speaker 1: do we find figure out how to get home? And

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Speaker 1: like how novel it was to look up the directions

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Speaker 1: and write it down on the back of an envelope

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Speaker 1: and like, I hope we don't miss a turn, and

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Speaker 1: then like it felt so like magical and renegade and

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Speaker 1: just anachronistic. Well, we only bring it out just because

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Speaker 1: of the revelations about Facebook that have come up, you know,

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Speaker 1: the whole social media thing. That's definitely something that you know,

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Speaker 1: older generations and haven't had to deal with obviously. But

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Speaker 1: it was reported through a leaker that Facebook had known

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Speaker 1: how harmful Facebook and Instagram were two young users, and

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Speaker 1: not only did they conceal that information, but they actually

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Speaker 1: tried to get rid of that information. They knew that

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Speaker 1: their algorithm was making teenage girls uh like suicidal and

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Speaker 1: having eating disorders. Like they knew this to be true

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Speaker 1: and did not do and they just continued to prioritize

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Speaker 1: profit over the mental health of the whole generation. In

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Speaker 1: a nutshell, what their their own research concluded was that

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Speaker 1: facebooks it has to have its business model has to

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Speaker 1: be on polarization and spreading hatred because the more angry

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Speaker 1: that people are I guess, I don't know this is how.

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Speaker 1: This is what they figured out. The more angry that

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Speaker 1: people are then the longer they spent on Facebook, the

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Speaker 1: longer they spent on Facebook, the more likely they are

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Speaker 1: to click and add. When they click and add, Facebook

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Speaker 1: gets money. So they made you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: at the risk of I guess this is a public

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Speaker 1: health thing, right, at the risk of public health. They

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Speaker 1: chose the profit margins over the good of the people.

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Speaker 1: And then and then on top of that, a few

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Speaker 1: days later, you know, the whole ship just gonna like crash,

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Speaker 1: like out the blue, like we're yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that was an accident there, like doing something quick.

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Speaker 1: Look over here, child, Yeah that I mean to demand

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Speaker 1: behind the curtain, they could have tried to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit more. I don't less obvious that that is.

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Speaker 1: That's like some movie ship right there. It's like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, the leaker came out. It was either a

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Speaker 1: distraction or was totally like taking my ball and going home, like,

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Speaker 1: oh really, you guys are gonna call us out for

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Speaker 1: making teen girls suicidal. Well, I guess I guess we'll

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Speaker 1: just take away Facebook. Then, I guess you just can't

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Speaker 1: have it if you don't appreciate what you have. Well, earlier,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about how much money Mark Zuckerberg lost

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Speaker 1: you even though the point that you were making is

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Speaker 1: like seven billion dollars to him, ain't nothing that's true.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think I don't think most people are

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Speaker 1: willing to lose seven billion dollars just to do some

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Speaker 1: Nena na boo bu ship you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I think I think it was much more like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, the documents have come out, what do we do? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the shadowy figures that like control Zuckerberg's limbs via like

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Speaker 1: satellite or whatever and like make his face to human

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Speaker 1: facial expressions, sat them down there, Like, look, bro, can

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Speaker 1: I take this out? We have to continue to extract

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Speaker 1: profit out of the suffering of children. I mean, people

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Speaker 1: realize that it's happening so well. The thing is, Facebook

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Speaker 1: has to be one of the biggest, most powerful companies

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Speaker 1: to ever have existed in the history. If you, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if like if companies that are far smaller than Facebook

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Speaker 1: have existed over the years and have like just from

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Speaker 1: the sheer greed and from the from the sheer like

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Speaker 1: implicit greed that that's there with like a corporate structure.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, They've reached havoc on generations

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Speaker 1: of the world. What the funk do y'all really think

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Speaker 1: the like most powerful one out of those in the

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Speaker 1: history of humanity is gonna do you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: Like like, this is just this ship because it's been

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Speaker 1: leak The book hasn't been written on what the fun

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Speaker 1: Facebook is doing or what they're gonna be responsible for.

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Speaker 1: So stay tuned on that ship. This is just some

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Speaker 1: surface ship. Going back to the nanny Nannie Boo boo hypothesis, However,

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Speaker 1: I mean this picture also Mark Zuckerberg, like riben a

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Speaker 1: fat line in his office like, yeah, shut it all down.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean, sir? Yes said shut it all down, sir,

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Speaker 1: You'll lose billions of dollars. I can fu dude. If

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Speaker 1: they don't appreciate me, they will see And it's just

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Speaker 1: like line after line, no shirt on. That's the social

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Speaker 1: network version of So I don't know, Nannie booboo is

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Speaker 1: still plausible. That's the Jesse Eisenberg Zuckerberg, that berg Berg

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Speaker 1: an never Berg connected. Wow, Oh yeah, what's the what else? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What else with your Oh yoh me. I'm I've got

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Speaker 1: this single that I got coming out soon. I finally

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Speaker 1: made the Hometown Joint, you know what I'm saying. I

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Speaker 1: got the Savannah the Savannah Joint. So, you know, like

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Speaker 1: the thing is, I'm just now it's like I've been

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Speaker 1: doing the whole thing independent for a while, but the

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Speaker 1: last few projects that I've done have been with like

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Speaker 1: small indie labels, you know what I'm saying. So in

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Speaker 1: a way, it's kind of like I'm out of the

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Speaker 1: loop of like consistently releasing my own music on my own.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be working with

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Speaker 1: the label for the album, but like I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to put out just some random songs leading up to it.

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Speaker 1: So right now I'm in the process of like you know,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like I'm starting from scratch, like I'm a

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Speaker 1: new artist. It's like, oh man, all right, I gotta

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Speaker 1: get get in on this TikTok thing. All right, let

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Speaker 1: me start doing Let's start making TikTok videos and ship

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Speaker 1: and oh man, I guess I have to start paying

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Speaker 1: more attention to my Instagram show. So I'm going through

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Speaker 1: a lot of emotions. A lot of that is you know,

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Speaker 1: like a learning experience in a way for me. So

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Speaker 1: it's like it's added a layer of I guess, invigoration,

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Speaker 1: because you know, I don't like doing ship unless I

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Speaker 1: can get good at it. So it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things same. Oh my god, we're the same. I don't like, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't like playing board games with people, like only Scrabble,

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Speaker 1: because I could dominate everything. I know how to play

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Speaker 1: exactly every chess. I have to learn the rules of

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Speaker 1: new game, and you're gonna beat me the first five

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Speaker 1: times that, like the I saw I got out of

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Speaker 1: gaming and stuff. Whenever like any of my friends like, yo,

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Speaker 1: let's play Call of Duty, I'm like, bet, let's get it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like pulling out the version from like two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight. They're looking at me, like, yo, what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, I can't, I can't do it.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, Yeah, so I'm doing that whole thing with

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Speaker 1: the song and stuff. And you know that we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be hearing more about that in November because that's when

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Speaker 1: it's coming out. I don't want to bother teasing it now,

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Speaker 1: but to let people know that there is new music

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Speaker 1: coming out and um yeah, so what we got going

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Speaker 1: on today on the show. So today on the show,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go on to part two, continuation of our

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Speaker 1: topic from last week, discussing the rise of fascism potential

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Speaker 1: for a coup in Brazil with UM writer researcher author

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Speaker 1: of the new book The End of the End of History.

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Speaker 1: Alex Hoculey was based in Sal Paulo, Brazil, and UH

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Speaker 1: has written on the topic of UM. You know Brazilian

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Speaker 1: fascism and you know that it's threats to democracy for

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Speaker 1: Jackoman and other outlets. So after the jump, we'll be

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Speaker 1: getting into it with Alex, and then afterwards we'll be

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Speaker 1: coming back to talk a little bit about other manifestations

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Speaker 1: of of of political unrest and hip hop UM with

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Speaker 1: a couple of artists at are Real Dope. So stay

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Speaker 1: tuned for that. Any ready, let's get it and go.

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Speaker 1: Let's go. So today I'm excited to be joined by

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Speaker 1: Alex Hoculey, UM writer and researcher based in South Polo,

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Speaker 1: host of the Bunk of Cast podcast and author of

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Speaker 1: the recent book The End of the End of History

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Speaker 1: here to talk to us a little bit about UM,

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Speaker 1: the anti Bosonaro protests that took place over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: as well as just the general context in which they're Um,

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Speaker 1: they've taken place. So Alex, how are you today? I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm reasonably well, thank you. Yeah, it's a bit chilly

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Speaker 1: here in in some Follo. We're not fully out of

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Speaker 1: winter yet, but I'm really yeah yeah. Um, is it

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Speaker 1: rain a lot in South Polo. It rained a ton

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Speaker 1: when I lived in port Olegry, just like all the time.

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Speaker 1: It's super clue me. It depends what your standards are.

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Speaker 1: I used to live in London, so by contrast, and

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Speaker 1: Polo doesn't rain very much. No, all right, well let's

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Speaker 1: get into it. Um. Let's start off. I'd love to

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Speaker 1: hear um about how it went over the weekend. We

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Speaker 1: talked a little bit last week in the lead up

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Speaker 1: to this episode, UM that there would be some anti

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Speaker 1: Bosonaro protests across for the in response to the Pro

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Speaker 1: Bowlsonario protests I took place in September. So what was

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Speaker 1: the turnout and what was the coalition like industry. It's well,

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Speaker 1: I mean I was here in some follow I still am,

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Speaker 1: and I'd gone along to the protests on Sunday and

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Speaker 1: these were set up to be the first big anti

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Speaker 1: Bolsonado protests on the left, and that's an important qualification

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Speaker 1: on the left for quite a while, for quite a

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Speaker 1: couple of months, since since around June or something was

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Speaker 1: the last one. UM. The turnout was decent, but at

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Speaker 1: the same time the protests lacked a bit of energy

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Speaker 1: and was strangely fragmented, based around uh, different activist groups

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Speaker 1: on the streets, different parties or for example, the student

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Speaker 1: unions or different trade unions, and so as a consequence, uh,

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Speaker 1: it maybe wasn't a kind of massive show of force

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Speaker 1: on the part of the left um in the way

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Speaker 1: that might have been expected. I think an important the

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Speaker 1: backdrop to this, and I guess the baseline against which

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Speaker 1: we compare these left wing protests have been recent protests

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Speaker 1: by the right. So on on September the seventh, and

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll come along, we'll come on to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about that. But both there were

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Speaker 1: probol Snado protests, which was the biggest organized demonstration by

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Speaker 1: pro Bowls forces since he was elected in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: and that one mobilized a hundred thousand plus people in

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Speaker 1: tom Pollo and in Brazilia the federal capital UM, but

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Speaker 1: not in other other state capitals and so that was

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Speaker 1: a big turnout, but obviously there was a huge amount

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Speaker 1: invested into that, both both kind of morally as well

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Speaker 1: as financially. Uh and so that was seen to be

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Speaker 1: a bit of a flaw. Then a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: ago you had right wing anti BOLSNATO demonstrations. Um, if

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Speaker 1: you can do that. So they are groups who led

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Speaker 1: by groups like the Free Brazil movement for example, or

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Speaker 1: come to this Treats, which were groups that were formed

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Speaker 1: around to fight for the impeachment of the Workers Party

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Speaker 1: president at the time, Juma Hussat, something they ultimately succeeded

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Speaker 1: in in in pushing, albeit you know, with a lot

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Speaker 1: of parliamentary maneuvering that went on behind that to lead

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Speaker 1: to the parliamentary coup. Of these groups then, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you were to ask them and if they had

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Speaker 1: to respond, honestly, I'm pretty sure all of them would

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Speaker 1: have voted for Bosonado. But they see themselves as more liberal,

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Speaker 1: I mean liberal, not in the American sense meaning left wing,

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Speaker 1: but liberal in the sense of economically liberal. Right, So

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Speaker 1: they're kind of neoliberal groups who don't identify with the

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Speaker 1: sort of uh more kind of culture war orientation of

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Speaker 1: Bosonado and maybe reject some of the more obvious or

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Speaker 1: naked authoritarianism. But you know, ultimately these are these are

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Speaker 1: these are both not East does with buyer's remorse, if

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Speaker 1: you want to put it that way. UM. And they

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Speaker 1: manage very small numbers, They manage very small numbers, and

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Speaker 1: I think that proves that that sort of politics just

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Speaker 1: has no base in Brazil today. And so all the

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Speaker 1: right wing who had previously been Antique Juma, who had

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Speaker 1: been anti workers party, voted for Bolsonado, and now the

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Speaker 1: electorate is pretty polarized between Bolsonado and uh looking and

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Speaker 1: the left then probably looking to vote Lula in in

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Speaker 1: in So in that context, you know, how did the

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Speaker 1: left wing protest do? It was okay, but it wasn't uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was still mainly the sort of activist

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Speaker 1: basis of different groups of different parties without real sort

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Speaker 1: of mass support. And so I think in some of

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Speaker 1: the coverage I was reading UM there were some UM

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Speaker 1: folks interviewed who were around for April ten, imagine eighty four,

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Speaker 1: and like sort of hoping that this moment could be

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Speaker 1: similar to that one UM in Brazil and that it

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Speaker 1: was a watershed moment for the end of the military dictatorship,

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Speaker 1: and so I was wondering what you might think the

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Speaker 1: potential impacts would be of this protest, though it did

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Speaker 1: not have perhaps the numbers, the show of force that

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Speaker 1: folks were hoping that it would. Yeah, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: strange to kind of read the political temperature. I think

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Speaker 1: there's an element of, you know, we're a year away

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Speaker 1: from the election. There's an element maybe just of let's

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Speaker 1: just wait until the election. Bolsonarto looks pretty likely to lose,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's pulling it around in the first round.

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Speaker 1: Brasil has two rounds of presidential election, so the first

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Speaker 1: two front runners go to a second round if neither

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Speaker 1: achieves over and so Bolsono in the first round is

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Speaker 1: pulling and in the second round only round I e

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Speaker 1: showing he has a very hardcore base which is not

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Speaker 1: abandoning him and won't abandon him. But he's not able

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Speaker 1: to reach very far beyond that. I suspect when an

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Speaker 1: election comes he'll be able to reach a little bit further,

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Speaker 1: especially as it will be against Lula um former president

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Speaker 1: of the Workers Party, who is uh well, who's still

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Speaker 1: hated by you know, a section of a verity substantial

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Speaker 1: section of the population still, so I think the reality

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Speaker 1: is that the protests won't have kind of transformed anything,

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Speaker 1: and there's a sense of well still a sense of exhaustion,

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Speaker 1: you know, the brazil has and then this is an

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Speaker 1: important context had on the first kind of political level,

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Speaker 1: had waves of mobilization since which have been very important,

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Speaker 1: and there are sequences of protests one after the other, uh,

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Speaker 1: both on the left and then especially on the right.

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Speaker 1: And there's maybe an element of just exhaustion that there

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Speaker 1: was a very intense period of five years of mobilive

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Speaker 1: stream mobilizations which has now been exhausted. Then you have

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. Then you have a severe economic crisis which

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Speaker 1: still continues. Brasil hasn't really recovered from the crisis of

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Speaker 1: and then on top of that you have the fact

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Speaker 1: that prices are rising pretty severely, so there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of inflation fuel and food price inflation, which is buying

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Speaker 1: really hard. You know, like having a barbecue and having

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Speaker 1: beef is a pretty big part of Brazilian culture and

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Speaker 1: you lived in the south there to yeah, but it's

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Speaker 1: big across the country, and you know, Brazilians aren't able

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Speaker 1: to beef now because or you know me people have

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Speaker 1: had to really cut their consumption of beef because prices

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Speaker 1: have written so much. But also chicken, pork, rice, beans, everything,

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Speaker 1: all the staples, um, And so at the moment, there's

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Speaker 1: just a sense of like maybe kind of hunkering down. Um,

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Speaker 1: if you want to talk about kind of what could change,

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Speaker 1: if I want to you know, make some prognoses, UM.

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Speaker 1: I think one thing to keep an eye on in

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Speaker 1: terms of whether people will be driven to the streets,

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Speaker 1: whether there whether there will be some you know, real

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Speaker 1: anger against Bols rather than just a sense of slumping

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Speaker 1: towards the next election. There's the fact that Brazil is

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Speaker 1: facing possible blackouts, like rolling blackouts because there has been

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Speaker 1: a lot of drought, which means that the hydro power

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Speaker 1: plants don't have enough water and uh, and so they're

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Speaker 1: happy to depend on some sort of other energy sources.

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Speaker 1: And there looks like they'll have to be some sort

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Speaker 1: of rationing and blackouts. If that happens, that might be

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Speaker 1: a bit of a trigger and who knows where that

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Speaker 1: might lead. But I think it's worth you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of we tried to look across the rest of the continent.

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Speaker 1: And if you can see the sort of mass demonstrations

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Speaker 1: and uprisings you've had in Colombia, in Ecuador and in

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Speaker 1: Chile over the past two years, um one one, you know,

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Speaker 1: and all of those into different degrees driven by you know,

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Speaker 1: sudden increases and prices or in taxes and things like that,

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Speaker 1: it's not impossible that something similar happens in Brazil. Oh.

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Speaker 1: Sorry you it's snagged for a second, so it's just

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Speaker 1: pausing to let it catch up. Um. But um, in

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Speaker 1: your peace and um Jacobin, you said that a coup

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Speaker 1: is perhaps more likely than we herewd in the States

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Speaker 1: and the lead up to last year's presidential election, but

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Speaker 1: still unlikely. And I wondered if you could break down

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Speaker 1: for us a little bit of why I think that is. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: I mean I would kind of discourage any comparisons to

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Speaker 1: the US, I think, just to make this clear, or

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Speaker 1: at least to make my perspective clear. I don't think

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Speaker 1: there was any risk whatsoever of a coup in the

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Speaker 1: US generate six of completely overblown. It was just a

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Speaker 1: couple of malcontents being angry and police force, you know,

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Speaker 1: forces let them into the capital and nothing really happened,

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Speaker 1: there's no risk of the military or sections of the

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Speaker 1: establishment breaking with democratic norms and backing Trump to to

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Speaker 1: remain in power. I don't think that was the case

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Speaker 1: at all. In Brazil, the situation is obviously far more

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Speaker 1: precarious one because democracy UM, such as it is, is

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Speaker 1: much less consolidated. The elite are less wedded to kind

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Speaker 1: of the institutional reality, the kind of general kind of

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Speaker 1: norms and things like that. UM and you know, democrat

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Speaker 1: has been seriously weak and since the a sixteen parliamentary

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Speaker 1: coup or institutional coup against Juma Josaphim of the Workers

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Speaker 1: Party UM and you know, Bolsonado to a certain extent

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Speaker 1: represented the consummation of that coup because you had kind

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Speaker 1: of new, clean elections which sort of wiped the slate

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Speaker 1: clean and made everybody forget somehow that this institutional rupture

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Speaker 1: had happened. Bolsonado, wild in power, has consistently threatened institutions,

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Speaker 1: and not necessarily democratic institutions. I mean, most of his

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Speaker 1: recent fire has been turned against the Supreme Court, which

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Speaker 1: is you know, not a it's a countermajoritarian institution, right,

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Speaker 1: It's not UM, it's not a representative of the people

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Speaker 1: who the people elect. UM. But so it kind of

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Speaker 1: has this weird sort of shadow theater element to it,

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Speaker 1: where Bolsonado is fighting with other powers. UM. So you know,

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Speaker 1: he's there sat in the presidential palace, you know, firing

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Speaker 1: barbs at the Supreme Court, and that's all often Brazilia, UM,

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Speaker 1: and like it kind of doesn't involve the massive people, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of kind of has this weird sort

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Speaker 1: of spectral quality to it. Nevertheless, the threats are you know,

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Speaker 1: concerning UM, but there I don't think they're he I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's aware that he doesn't have mass support, and so

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Speaker 1: it's not like, um, you'd have a repeat of sort

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Speaker 1: of the nineteen sixty four military coup in Brazil, which

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Speaker 1: lasted twenty one years and had the support of the military,

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Speaker 1: the whole of the bourgeoisie, large parts of the kind

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Speaker 1: of the middle class, and the United States. You know,

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Speaker 1: that whole configuration, which is a kind of classic Cold

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Speaker 1: War sort of coup, wouldn't happen today. So despite some

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Speaker 1: sort of left wing fears of suddenly they're being tanks

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Speaker 1: on the streets, I don't see that happening UM, or

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Speaker 1: at least if there were to be some coup or

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Speaker 1: some more obvious rupture with democracy, it would happen in

426
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: in a different way. And and and if you look around

427
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: the world, you know these things nowadays are happening much

428
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: more or um kind of gradual way. So, I mean,

429
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,719
Speaker 1: if you just want to take the example of like

430
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: Turkey or of Hungry, all of which are sliding towards authoritarianism,

431
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: it's all done by elected presidents who kind of wear

432
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: away at at democratic checks and balances, um. And that

433
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: would be possible in Brazil, would Bolsonado be re elected,

434
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: But that at the moment isn't looking plausible. So a

435
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: lot of the worry in the lead up to the

436
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: September the seventh protests, which were the big pro pro

437
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: Bowlsonado protests um were was that they would try to

438
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: invade the Supreme Court building or even try to launch

439
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: a coup. And then there's questions over like who the

440
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: major institutional forces and actors are there who would back that, right,

441
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: so you have to it's you know, president just can't

442
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: design to do a coup, right, you know, you need

443
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: you need, you need troops or something, right, and his

444
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: his um administration is packed to the rafters with military officers,

445
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: both at the level of his cabinet with like top generals,

446
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: but also throughout the kind of top levels of the

447
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,239
Speaker 1: federal administration. He's packed it with military men um, so

448
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: they are kind of guaranteeing his his um his presidency.

449
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, it's not entirely clear whether

450
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: they want to break with democracy and whether they would

451
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: want to rule directly, whether they want the responsibility for that.

452
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: They've already overseen this Polson not appeared, which has been

453
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: a disaster economically in health terms, you know, Polsandre has

454
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: obviously like denied the pandemic and not lifted a finger

455
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: to do anything, declined to buy vaccines when he could

456
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: above vaccines. People in the administration try to buy vaccines,

457
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: but with some like little graph scheme where they get

458
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: paid extra to buy vaccines and stuff like that. So

459
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: it's obviously been a complete social and political disaster. And

460
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if the military, you know, want more

461
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 1: of that basically, so that's not entirely clear. They might

462
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: be more interested in maintaining their own privileges um and

463
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: being seen as defenders of the constitution than in actually

464
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: taking power and ruling directly, so that's not entirely clear.

465
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: The other element is Brazil's massive military police forces. Now

466
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: these are police forces. They're like neat cops, but they're

467
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: also riot cops and responsible for a huge number of

468
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: murders every year. Uh, they are in they're organized at

469
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: a state level, but and so they're commanded by the

470
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: state governors. But they in total number larger than the army,

471
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: and it's actually the largest armed body of men in

472
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: Latin America. And they are very very pro Bowlsonado. And

473
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: that's concerning There was a lot of talk before September

474
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: seven that these police officers would maybe mutiny or at

475
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: the very least show up at the demonstrations, either in

476
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 1: uniform or in plain clothes, something that's illegal. By the way,

477
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: you're not allowed as a police officer to to kind

478
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: of manifest yourself politically. That didn't seem to happen, so

479
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, that's good at least. Um So you know,

480
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: if you're asking me to kind of draw to to

481
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: sort of sum up and asked, say, what, how likely

482
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: who actually would be? I think the the scenario would

483
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: demand some sort of wider instability or outbreak of mass

484
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 1: disorder of some sort for then the military to feel

485
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: they have to intervene to to kind of give just

486
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: cause for a coup. I don't think there would be

487
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: a coup kind of um, you know, like like lightning

488
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: on a on a on a on a clear day

489
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Yeah. And even given some of the

490
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: economic pecurity that the Brazilian working classes facing, given the pandemic,

491
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: and you know, the fallout for the economy, um, that

492
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: sort of social upheaval doesn't seem likely. No, exactly, I

493
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: mean if there's I mean, of course, if there were

494
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: some sort of uh, you know, just for the sake

495
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: of argument, if they're mass protests and riots with rolling blackouts.

496
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: I mean, this is completely purely speculative. UM. I don't

497
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: like to kind of go go into kind of fearmongering

498
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: or whatever. But but if in that in that scenario,

499
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: then yes, the middle the dream might feel they need

500
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: to put you know, put put troops on the streets,

501
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: which is something that they did in in Rio relatively recently,

502
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: where they took over policing um, in response to the

503
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: kind of insecurity situation there. But you know, it was

504
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: fairly badly handled, responsible for a lot of killings, the

505
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: security situation didn't improve, so it ended up being a

506
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: little bit for show. So it's not again, I think

507
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: the likelihood would be more that the military would enter

508
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: into like a sort of peacekeeping capacity. Let's and I

509
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: say that kind of ironically because Brazil did send peacekeeping

510
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: troops to Haiti and had a big presence there, and

511
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: we're responsible for loads of human rights abuses and things

512
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: like that. So, um, when I say peacekeeping, I don't

513
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: mean to say that that's like a good thing, um.

514
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: But but yeah, so I I guess, you know, summing up,

515
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: I think they would need to be some sort of

516
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: they would need to see some sort of just cause

517
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: of some sort of mass unrest for them to then intervene.

518
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: Well that's good news, I mean in the sense that

519
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: it seems like despite some of the fears, um, it

520
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: would have been stoked recently, especially I think um in

521
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: the international media that's been picked up a lot um

522
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: regarding the potential for a coup. Um seems like, you know,

523
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: the elections coming up next year hopefully be a peaceful

524
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: transfer of power, and if you could, you know, I'm

525
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: not sure there would be a peaceful transfer. Yeah, So

526
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: this is the thing. I'm not sure there'll be a

527
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: peaceful transfer of power. I mean, I think that's not

528
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: a will kick up a fuss in some sense. And

529
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: has already been uh semming the seeds for a long time,

530
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: arguing that the voting system, which is in Brazil fully electronic,

531
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: were far more advanced in the United States here Um,

532
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: no hanging chats or anything like that. UM. And it's

533
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: been something which has no which has never had any

534
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 1: credible allegations of fraud against it. The system is pretty secure,

535
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: it works, etcetera. It delivers results pretty immediately, and that's that.

536
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: But Bolson has been for a long time trying to

537
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: undermine faith in it, and of course it has no

538
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: basis in reality. But that, of course, that's not the point.

539
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: The point is to demoralize, um, demoralized the election, demoralized

540
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: people's faith in democracy. Uh And and so he already

541
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: has alleged that the election which he won was fraudulent,

542
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: which of course is It is kind of question. But

543
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: again this is kind of following Trump's tactics UM and

544
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: often quite explicitly self consciously. UM. And he's going to

545
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: do the same in UM. And there's gonna be a

546
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: lot of kind of you know, propaganda from him. You

547
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: know what is now called fake news, but I prefer

548
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: to just be more traditional and called propaganda. Um and

549
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: uh and and so I think you know, whether he

550
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: leaves office peacefully or not, I mean, it depends what

551
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: you define its peacefully. I think there will be some

552
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: sort of resistance on his part, some lawsuits, maybe they'll

553
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: be protests, because of course his hardcore base is relatively strong.

554
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: It's not a huge part of the population, but it's

555
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: maybe a nucleus of like or something, and you know

556
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: that's still substantial enough, uh that it can cause you know,

557
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: serious disruption. And the So I think, at least in

558
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: terms of the most ideal the sectors which are most

559
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: ideologically wed to him, I mean the real hardcore kind

560
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: of nutty culture warrior types who follow him and hardcore authoritarians.

561
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: They they might not accept the election result. And I

562
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: don't know what goes from there, you know what what

563
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: the next step there would be, Um, whether there would

564
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: be some kind of here sort of um making a

565
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: US comparison to spite what I said earlier, like a

566
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: kind of generally six sort of moment. But perhaps a

567
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: bit more destabilizing. I think the question you always have

568
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: to ask, you know, is not like, oh, are there

569
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: lots of people who are angry and are going to

570
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: cause a mess, but you know, what are the institutional

571
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: forces and what are the balance of forces kind of

572
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: across society, And I think a lot of institutional actors

573
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: you know of Bolsonado were to lose the election pretty clearly,

574
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: um and the winner was to be Lula, who would

575
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: then have stitched up a lot of deals with a

576
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: lot of the olderly, with a lot of the military establishment,

577
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: with a lot of congressmen who trace their own histories

578
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: back to the dictatorship when they were kind of the

579
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: civil participants in the dictatorship rights a lot of bad guys.

580
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: Lula will have stitched up a lot of deals with them,

581
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: and he is currently doing that right. So it's important

582
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: also to note as an asside that any Lula government

583
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: will not be a radical government. It won't even be

584
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: as moderate center left as it was the first time

585
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: round from two thousand and two until it will be

586
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: a government which is completely compromised um with the old establishment.

587
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: So will it be better than Bolsonado, for sure, But

588
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: there should be no real left wing enthusiasm for the

589
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: return of Lula, maybe only relief that Polsonado has gone.

590
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 1: Um So, I think if Lula is able to manage

591
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: that and able to do deals, and if if Lula

592
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: does one thing, it's it's does deals. I mean, that

593
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: is his thing. He's a great conciliator. Ever since his

594
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: more radical trade union days in the seventies. He was

595
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: a guy who always made deals right, who always found

596
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: a middle path, is able, is good with people and

597
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: so on. Um So, if he's able to do that,

598
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: then why would a lot of the elites decided to,

599
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: you know, support Bolsonado's claims that he was frauded out

600
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,959
Speaker 1: of of an election. The instability ensuing from that, um

601
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: is probably not worth their while because ultimately they're far

602
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: more narrowly self interested in, for example, making their sectional

603
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: interests known and defended. So, you know, if finance is

604
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: happy with Lula, if Lula is not gonna curtail Agri

605
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: business too much, which is you know, one of the

606
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: main bolson those main backers, then I think they'll go

607
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: along with that. You know, It's important to note that

608
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: among Bolsonados, like capitalists support the hardest core of that

609
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: is Actrive business and as well as some kind of

610
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: sections of kind of big retail and things like that. Um,

611
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: he's kind of lost a lot of the sort of

612
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: financial classes support because they because Bolsonado hasn't been a

613
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 1: total hardcore neoliberal in terms of prioritizing some various kind

614
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: of reforms right kind of tax reform, pension reform and

615
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: things like that, and as a consequence, um, and as

616
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: a consequence like he they don't see him necessarily as

617
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: their guy. Agrive business still sees Bolsonado as their guy,

618
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: but they're not ideologically wedded him on mass you know,

619
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: it's still kind of a sectional interest. It's just you know,

620
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: kind of narrowly narrowly self interested in economic terms. So um, yeah,

621
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: I I'm not sure that they would necessarily force erupt

622
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: with the democracy for all the problems that that would cause.

623
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: If I can highlight like another thing of kind of

624
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: what might still happen, because there's been a lot of

625
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 1: talk about impeachment of polson There's been over a there's

626
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: been over a hundred impeachment requests filed against him. And

627
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: because of the configuration of Congress and his Bolsonado's appointees

628
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: and everything that won't advance because he's basically bought off

629
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: Congress with enough pork pork barrel spending that they won't

630
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: seek to impeach him. But if he's losing support and

631
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: there's a door now opening to impeach him, then they

632
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: the conditions might be changing and make it more likely.

633
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: The reason they might want to impeach Bolsonado is that

634
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: they know that the elections pull right between Bolsonado and Lula,

635
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: neither of whom they want. And so if there's a

636
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: possibility of a potential third way candidate, and of course,

637
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: like all the newspapers, all the major newspapers have been

638
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: talking up various different third way candidates, and it's the

639
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: usual thing, you know, they kind of float a blue

640
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: and then they go, hey, this guy is young and

641
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: innovative and modern, and we're going to bring him in

642
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: and exactly and what happens is that, like you know,

643
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: he flatlines in the polls and nothing happens, and no

644
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: one talks about him for again, like after a month. Um,

645
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: and that's happening now and like it will continue happening.

646
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: But the reality is that none of them are pulling

647
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: over like in double digits and that's not going to change.

648
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 1: And the parties are also themselves like, oh now kind

649
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: of because Brazil has a hugely fragmented party system, has

650
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: like twenty seven different parties, and so they're a lot

651
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: of them are now joining up together because of some

652
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: electoral form allowing them to to kind of combine into

653
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: into sort of new party unions, and that they're now

654
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: concerned with that, which also shows that they're not interested

655
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: in necessarily in fielding a third party candidate, because a

656
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 1: third way candidates and so to speak, because they're mainly

657
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: guarantee looking at kind of guaranteeing enough TV air time

658
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 1: and getting congress people re elected and so on. So

659
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: I see, so because of that inability to really get

660
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: any wind behind a third way candidate, the only way

661
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: they could maybe managed that would be to take Polsonado

662
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: out of the game and therefore open up the field

663
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: on the right for a kind of more traditional right

664
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: wing figure who is in Pulsonado, And so that might

665
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: that might yet happen, whether it's in a whether it's

666
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: an impeachment or um the canceling of his electoral slate,

667
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: which has never ever happened before, but because they have

668
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: all these allegations of improper use of fake news during

669
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: the election, especially via what's happened lots of kind of

670
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 1: illegal funding, which is something that was obviously which obviously

671
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: fell foul of electoral rules back in and everybody knew

672
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: about it, but they were never going to act on it. Um.

673
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: You know that the Supreme Court was never gonna act

674
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: on it. But they've had this in their back pocket

675
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: and so they might still yet act on it. And

676
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: that would mean not just Polsonado being impeached, but it

677
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: actually would mean that the slate would be canceled. The

678
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: vice president would also lose his position, and everybody running

679
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: with them would be out, would be out exactly. Yeah,

680
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: so that whole presidential state would be out and then

681
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: until the election, so let's say, you know whatever, it

682
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 1: would be ten months or you know, until that would

683
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: until the election, Brazil would then elect a president indirectly

684
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: in Congress, right, so kind of parliamentary system, um. And

685
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: that's the big concern that that if that were a

686
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: short term then it would matter so much and there'd

687
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: be new there'll be new elections as planned in October.

688
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: But Brazil's Congress has always been trying to maneuver towards

689
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: a parliamentary system, which would be really and anti democratic

690
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: because congress is already kind of a mess um stock

691
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: filled with you know, kind of a bunch of reactionaries. Um.

692
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: And you know, the parliament, the congressional elections are much

693
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: more sort of clientilistic than the presidential elections, which are

694
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: kind of the most democratic part of Brazil's system. And

695
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: if you and if you switch the parliamentary system, that

696
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: basically means that that a bunch of congressmen who have

697
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: no popularity whatsoever can then indirectly choose a president. And

698
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: so they're always trying to maneuver towards that, and that's

699
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: quite concerning. Um. So you know, when I say that

700
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: there's no coup attempt or that that the risks of

701
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: a coup are probably not that great, that isn't to

702
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: say that Brazilian democracy is in a healthy state at all.

703
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: I see, I appreciate you breaking it all down, um,

704
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: And I wanted to see if you want to let

705
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: people know where they could follow you, get your new

706
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: book or anything like that. Yeah, no, thanks for having me.

707
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: I uh, I am active on on Alpha Bunga Bunga,

708
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: which is at Bunga Cast on all social media or

709
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: bunga cast dot com. That's um my global politics podcast

710
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: with which which I co host with to other guys,

711
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: George and Phil Um. We now have a big series

712
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: coming out on generational poul Takes, which maybe your listeners

713
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: would be interested in checking out. And my book The

714
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: End of the End of History Is is on sale now,

715
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: kind of covering uh this, this strange moment that we're

716
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: living in of of an increasingly turbulent political world. All right, well,

717
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here with us. Oh, let

718
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: me get I gotta, I gotta Okay, So if this

719
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: cat's name am Sita, real name Leandro Roque de ali Vera.

720
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: It's been making music for more than a decade, Born

721
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: um and based in saw Paolo Um. He's recorded three

722
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: albums and in doing so built up a reputation as

723
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: one of Brazil's top hip hop mcs. Um. It's also,

724
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: in the past year two years, emerged as one of

725
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: the country's most influential cultural figures. All right, let's check

726
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: out this track real quick. So do we know if

727
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: he's bosonar Rista. I get the feeling from the lyrics.

728
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: He's not a Bolsonarousta in that his lyrics come across

729
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: very like, you know, very laboratory, like diagnosing the ills

730
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: of racism, the you know, the ills of our our

731
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: history with enslavement and uh police repression, which like you know,

732
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: Bolsonaro loves the police. What I understand, Bolsnaro hates the

733
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: blacks and the pores. So I'm gonna I'm gonna assume

734
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: there's like not they don't really. He looks way too

735
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: cool to fuk with them. He looks way too cool,

736
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: like I want to be this Nick's friends. I'm gonna

737
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: be your friend. Look at the look look at the

738
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: stings with the little parts in the hair. Sorry found

739
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: this picture of him. Yeah, they can't sure, but yeah, yeah,

740
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 1: he's looking fresh to death. And the couplings, Lord of mercy,

741
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: the little wire and glasses, and the fucking beat goes

742
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: hard and then you got you know, got mc going

743
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: in talking about you know, the police van is a

744
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: slave ship and the slums of the slave quarters he's

745
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: talking about. He's like talking, you know, harkening back to Angola, Congo, Soweto,

746
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: like his you know African Homelands and uh talking about

747
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 1: Ben Lodden getting made in the USA and fucking talking

748
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: about the KKK. And so he's talking about all these

749
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: different like inter national intersections between you know, we're like

750
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: we're at the middle of which comes like the Black

751
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: Resilian struggle, which has many parallels to the Black American struggle.

752
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: So beat goes hard hard, the lyrics go hard. Videos

753
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: of note too, it's uh, it's got like a scene

754
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: of workers revolt in like like would you I got

755
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: plantation vibes, Although I don't know that they explicitly showed

756
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: it was a plantation house. I'm sure I'm sure that

757
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: parallel was the implication was. Um they're intentional. Oh yeah,

758
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: they're like like understated, but like definitely you know, trying

759
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: to nod a little bit to it because I mean, yeah,

760
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: we're still living on a plantation hard. Instrumentally I was,

761
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: I was making this comment before we came back from

762
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: the jump, But instrumentally it makes me feel like old

763
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 1: school uh Black Eyed Peas before Fergie, like those sort

764
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 1: of beats. All right, enough of admiring homies wardrobe, who

765
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: we got next or next? Okay, Um, this is not

766
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: a hip hop song, and I don't think I've ever

767
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: deviated from the genre of focus in the history of

768
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: the show, but god damn, this is a banger, and

769
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: AlSi Sauarez, who sings the song, is ninety fucking years old,

770
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 1: so I thought I had to give a shout out

771
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: to the homie also while bringing attention to the fact

772
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 1: that this song I'm get of feem dumundo, which means

773
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 1: women at the end of the world. There's like a

774
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: fucking feminist anthem in an arrow where both Scenaro's out

775
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: here making jokes about rape and talking about how you know,

776
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: women are idiots. Like, I feel like this is a

777
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: really powerful song worth giving a listen to. Let's give

778
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: it a spend real quick. Okay, yeah that yeah, that

779
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: ship is dope. I love the instrumental for it, man,

780
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: that piano pluck. You nailed it. You explain exactly why

781
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: I felt because it's a good fit, because it's got

782
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: this instrumental feeling like where it feels like it feels

783
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: like any second the bars are gonna drop. Yeah, it

784
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: feels like a beat, you know, like, yeah, that sounds

785
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: like somebody made that be in an MPC. You know, up,

786
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 1: shut up, I see, yeah, I can see West Ruler

787
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: shout out of West like doing a little thing on

788
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: the B pad with the piano. Which if no one

789
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: has sampled this song, uh, maybe they should because it's yeah,

790
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: you know, to get a loop going with the fucking

791
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: in the background and ship. So why don't you tell

792
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: the people what the songs about? So, um, the song

793
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: it's it's it's the showcases feminist resistance to oppression. Um,

794
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: in lines like on the avenue, I left there my

795
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: black skin and my voice, my home, my loneliness. I

796
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: threw it from the third floor. So it's sort of

797
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: like about throwing out all the ship that's like holding

798
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: you back with reference to you know, skin color with

799
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: two gender uh, and sort of like rising above it,

800
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: like laughing even in the face of insurmountable ops. You know.

801
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: She described herself as a woman at the end of

802
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: the world who will sing until the end, who will

803
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 1: sing until the end of the world, and so um

804
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: there was a lot of like violence against women and

805
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: femicide going on in Brazil at the time that the

806
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: song was written. Um, and so sort of like I

807
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: guess giving it's sort of just like an anthem. So

808
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: it's just like an anthem for like this backdrop of violence,

809
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: of oppression, of just general struggle struggle against fascism, like

810
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, keeping your head high above that. While not

811
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: overtly political and its content, it's one of those things

812
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: where like it's inherently politiful and that it is resistance

813
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: and embodies resistance and so I really nope, those are

814
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: the best type of political songs in my opinion, best type.

815
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: It's not preachy. It's not like, Hey, goes out and

816
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: vote kids and then fucking corny as ship I do

817
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 1: in my dumbass music. Um, Hey, you know it's true.

818
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: I'm like so voting for for shareff. Who are you

819
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 1: gonna come to solicitor general? It's not true. It's a style.

820
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: It's a style corny as hell, and I and I

821
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: embrace it. It's great but no, it's like understated but

822
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: just empowering. It's good ship, don't know that's worth it?

823
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: In this bit to tell good for you, good for

824
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: you else Suarez and it's black is now. Our next

825
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: song is a Yo Data by Jonga O Yo da

826
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: Tigre means I have a tiger um and Jonga is

827
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: a bella horizontal born rapper, who interestingly was among the

828
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: finalists for Best International Rapper for the BT Hip Hop

829
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: Awards last year. Um. In this track, John calls out

830
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: racism against brack Resilians while taking a jab at balls

831
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: Naro rhyming, whoever has the my color is a thief.

832
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 1: Whoever has the color of Eric Clapton is a clapt

833
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 1: To maniac. I'm sorry, that's hilarious to me, uh because

834
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: he didn't the air Clapton end up being real racist

835
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: against like immigrants or some ship. And I want thinking another, right, guy?

836
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: There was something with air Clapton, you know, like him

837
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,919
Speaker 1: and who's the other guy? Um, I don't know, man,

838
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 1: one of these guitar playing white. Yeah, the ship Morrissey. Yeah.

839
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,720
Speaker 1: It's like you know, every every other day is like yeah,

840
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: so Morrissey said this, Yo, So Morrissey said that we

841
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: can't funk with Morrissey no more. And I'm sitting over here, like,

842
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 1: who the fuck is Morrissey? Man? All right, you know, alright,

843
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: I don't know cool, yeah, legit and Doll crucified me

844
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: for this listeners, But like, I don't know if I

845
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: could name a Eric Clapton song off the top of

846
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: my head. But I remember his racist Tears in Heaven.

847
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: Tears in Heaven, Tears in Heaven. I just couldn't name one.

848
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 1: And what was the other one? He did a joint.

849
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: There was a movie with John Travolta back in the

850
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: day called Phenomenon, and he did the theme song for

851
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: with baby Face. It was him and baby Face was

852
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: called change the World, like if I could change the world.

853
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: They sing it a lot better than that, But you

854
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, really know anyway, I didn't know

855
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: that was possible. I don't. Let's check out this damn song. Alright,

856
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 1: let's yeah. He talks about how at the time of judgment,

857
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: God is black and Brazilian. Love that um, And then

858
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: in in this little Jabbitt Bossnarrow here he says, and

859
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: to save the country a Christian ex military man who

860
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: thinks that women getting together as a horhouse. So he's like,

861
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: oh you think, oh, you think this guy, this Christian

862
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: quote unquote Christian guy, that's quote unquote military guy who

863
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: like thinks women are slugs. This guy is gonna save

864
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: your country. Well, at the time of judgment, God is

865
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 1: black and Brazilian, and he's gonna not gonna be pleased

866
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: with this ship. So is he really popular? Oh yeah,

867
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: it's mad popular. So we also last year, I believe

868
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: took home the MTV MIA Beat UH Brazil Awards, apparently

869
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 1: it's a big deal. During his ward ship performer um

870
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 1: on top of the roof of a building. Um. This

871
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,479
Speaker 1: is uh also gets back into the politics of his music,

872
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 1: which like they are found throughout his music and music

873
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: music videos and encourage you all to take a look

874
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: at up them all lots of examples. But at this

875
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 1: award show performance, he drove up home an anti resist

876
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: racist message featuring background dancers for shirts imprinted with the

877
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: slogan potterm dinose matar, which means stop killing us, which

878
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: apparently in Brazil it's also a huge slogan for like

879
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: the anti racist movement, which I don't know if it's

880
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: like an offshoot of Black Lives Matter or just like

881
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: the very simple statement of police talk killing us just

882
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: has this resonance languages. Yeah, like it's going to be

883
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: applied to any populations. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, it's

884
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: like the inspiration from what's happening here or is it

885
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 1: just literally that is Wow, we should probably look look

886
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: at that because I mean, is that just too coin

887
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: sidental movements right up? Straight up? I mean so much,

888
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: so much. What I also I think is revealed in

889
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: the music of m sid of of Elsa Suarez Jonga

890
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: today is the parallels between the United States and Brazil.

891
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: Outside of Oh we've talked about fascism and like they

892
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: have the trump of the tropics down there, also just

893
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: the development of like the slavery there's like three hundred

894
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: and fifty years of slavery in Brazil, you know, the

895
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: way the police are murdering black people, hyper capitalism all

896
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: the ship, the way that like these similar forces have

897
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: cooked up similar results for both of our both of

898
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 1: our colonies. Yeah, I guess you could say. It's interesting

899
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 1: how you see that in the music as well, with

900
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: the themes that come up. Well, ship, we can only

901
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: hope that we can only hope that they all that

902
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: stuff like is defeated or quells down or admitted gate

903
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 1: it to whatever extent it can be. It doesn't take

904
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: of you, you know, gave me a little bit of

905
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: hope that maybe all things are not lost. Um, but

906
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: you never, I don't know. You're the smartest people. And

907
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: he was a very smart man. You get caught off,

908
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: you get caught I surprise sometimes like shoot him. Well,

909
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: one thing that we do, one thing that we do

910
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: know that we don't get caught off surprise with. That's it.

911
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: We gotta end this ship fucking bars. They never catch

912
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: me off. We will be back next week. But before

913
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: we go, like the homie just said, we need some bars.

914
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: So Joel please, my main man, can you can you

915
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: bless us with some heat yo blue collar to beat. Yeah,

916
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: I'm a scholet with the heat the rhoms at a premium.

917
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: You try to get him cheap. That's why Bostonara got

918
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 1: the right wingers in the street. So every time I moved,

919
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta be the street. It still is

920
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,919
Speaker 1: kind of here to miss to say it's I lllegit admit.

921
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: He don't really like anybody with a clearly risk ground folks,

922
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: clear folks of people who indigenous. You can even throw

923
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 1: a little goose stepping in the mix. But this is

924
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 1: in a sense we're preaching of the choir. I'm just

925
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: trying to keep it dope and being creature you admire.

926
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: Make a sucker, wrap a halt. Godam screeching on the

927
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: tie Everything I say is crack minus either in the fire,

928
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: it's dope. Knife and Lingua franca, take about. We're a

929
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: couple of superheroes with Cape and cow Listen close and

930
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: I'll break it down. Keep your damn mouth shut and

931
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: give us a reparations now, Yeah, I don't Knife. I'm

932
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: like you're listening to Waiting on Reparations for We're Black

933
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: Resilience as well as Black America. Hurry up with all

934
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: of it, hurry it all up, right, it all up,

935
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: See you next week. Waitning on Reparations is the production

936
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,240
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,

937
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 1: check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

938
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.