WEBVTT - Thou Shalt Break Down Borders 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:04.320 Hi, and welcome to Everywhere, a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:10.600 I am your host Daniel Shaffler. This week's commandment thou 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:18.120 shalt break down borders, Robert Frost said, before I build 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.560 a wall, I'd asked to know what I was walling 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:25.880 in or walling out and to whom I was like 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:31.240 to give offense. Traveling is all about borders. They are 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:36.040 physical or literal ones, those metaphorical ones, and then those 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:41.320 deep spiritual ones. As a traveler, I'm always considering borders. 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.159 Can I cross this? Who will I be when I 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.000 am on the other side of this border? Why do 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.960 we have these borders in the first place? And right 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:55.760 now we the people are having to rethink borders altogether. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.720 The ancient Greek saw unrestrained movement as one of the 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:09.360 four freedoms, distinguishing liberty from slavery. An influx of migrants 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:13.080 added to wealth and taxes in local defense. And I 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.680 think those things sound like assets to me. But this 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:23.640 thinking is apparently now all gone. We've had wars, excessive poverty, 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:29.280 terrorist attacks, and environmental changes forcing people to move, and 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:33.920 as a result, walls are being erected everywhere. My girl 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:38.199 AOC recently went to the American southern border to see 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:42.400 what the real situation is like, and she was fucking horrified. 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:48.200 It's humanity at its lowest vibration. But for some reason, 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:52.080 humans like borders. As a species, we like to make 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:56.760 sure things aren't too blurry or too complex. That to 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:01.840 our idiotic mind's eye, keeps it all under control. And 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:07.160 so since World War Two, national leaders have said, let's delineate, 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.960 let's give this globe higher walls and longer borders, all 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:17.280 to pretend that they offering citizens extra safety. Countries all 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.120 over the world have done this and have lied about 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:24.000 the value of borders. So I'm not saying that borders 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:28.440 should be totally open. There should be reasonable checks and restrictions, 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.679 and in most of the world that is the way 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:35.519 it is, in spite of the conservative media telling you otherwise. 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:41.519 What we're really saying is that there should also be reasonable, compassionate, 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:47.959 and respectful, common sense flexibility. In the nineties, the big 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:54.119 talk was globalization and living and traveling in a borderless society. Finally, 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:58.440 a moment to challenge orders had come. The European Union 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:03.200 was created to facilitate this concept and had rapidly expanded 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.960 its reach eastwards since the African continent was establishing a 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:12.280 Pan African agreement to facilitate ease of movement, and even 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:16.200 the US, Mexico and Canada once try to keep things 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:21.480 breezy and easy to scurry through, but as expected, it 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:25.360 was all too loose and hippie dippy ideal for the 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:30.080 power elite. Just look at the happy travelers buying fantasy 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:34.480 World passports who thought they could finally explore this glow freely. 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.840 Most recently, musician Moss Deaf was arrested in South Africa 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.760 for trying to leave the country with his World passport. 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.880 So fast forward thirty years later, we know that the 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:54.840 border free dream has finally collapsed, but we should hold 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.280 onto some variant of it to its best principles. As 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:04.480 we speak, new Chinese imperialists are laying down borders in Africa. 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:10.320 Mother Russia has expanded her reach in America is cruelly 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.600 raising its drawbridge and turning its back on a legitimate 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:24.279 asylum seeker. What a turn of events now that cheery 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.800 Canada is showing the world how to handle migrants, how 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:33.400 to document them thoroughly and integrate them into Canadian bliss. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:40.640 A maple leaf tattoo is always optional. Germany, out of 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:45.160 guilt or perhaps some confusion, forgot the integration and documentation 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:49.600 part of rightfully letting in millions of hard up migrants, 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.200 and now there's a glut of people not quite fitting 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:59.000 into that Deutsche lifestyle. As a German citizen, I know 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:04.599 how complex things are as a result, Shall we bring 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.120 up Brexit and the humanitarian crisis in the Middle East? 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.400 No wonder, the system that is Europe is calling foul. 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.240 If you missed the travel news of the last few months, 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:21.240 well let me brief you. Decided that he's shameless. Wall 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:25.279 facing Mexico isn't enough. What is of more importance to 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.200 him is to make sure that immigrants are kept out 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.279 at all costs, resulting in the internationally watched scandal of 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.719 splitting up families at the border and detaining them in 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:40.880 wartime like internment camps. Then the Supreme Court upheld forty 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.800 five long argued travel ban, accepting the government's argument that 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:49.040 the ban was within presidential power to craft in national 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:54.040 security policy and thus his authority to suspend entry of 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:59.159 aliens into the United States, for instance, Iranian nationals and 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.600 their families who are perhaps American citizens or even dual 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:08.600 citizens or even green card holders are all unfairly discriminatedly 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:16.160 affected through this restricted travel. I call it unconstitutional. So 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.840 there are over sixty million migrants and refugees currently on 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.760 the move around the world. Many of course, are from Syria, 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.040 with Canada working to settle twenty five thousand Syrians across 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:33.560 the country by the end of this year. We can 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:42.839 know what but displaced people are also leaving Haiti, Afghanistan, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:47.440 North Korea, and all over Northern Africa, fleeing conflict zones, 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:53.480 forever wars, failed states, and the effects of climate change. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.279 I have met many of these people on my travels 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:02.240 and their stories are breaking. But what they have in 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.520 common is the simple human need for belonging, the hope 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:11.160 for a safer, better life. But it's all because of 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:16.240 the concept of border that is now evolved. So remember 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:22.360 follow the Money in the six film or the President's Men. Well, 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:24.880 I think it would be wise to heat that now. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.920 Border control and infrastructure are big business, And besides the 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:35.400 negative effects borders can sometimes have on humanity, corporations are 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:42.200 profiting of our often manufactured fears that boogeyman fear of 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:48.680 the other. Capital oh race, religious beliefs, sexual expression, and 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:53.520 gender identity belonged to the unpleasant club of the other. 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.400 So fear drives countries to build ever stricter and more 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:03.280 expensive to manage for orders and corporations. Then probably some 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:10.080 compliant politicians profit from this imaginary enemy. Some powers around 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.560 the world seem to think that grinding down minorities will 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.880 keep them in check. But a Simone de Beauvoir, who 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:22.760 wrote Second Sex, said all oppression creates a state of war. 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:28.320 This is no exception. Blessed be the fruit. A dark 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:34.240 war is being berthed. The Handmaids know all about borders, 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.640 and it isn't pretty for them either, And that's why 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.679 Margaret Edward's Handmaid's Tale is the greatest show on television 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:45.240 of the century. It depicts a world where borders are 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:50.200 both physical and between genders. The show helps understand the 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:55.640 disturbing reality of this current administration's racist policies, a new 0:08:55.679 --> 0:09:00.000 Supreme Court justice, as well as add One's recent victory 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.200 in Turkey. If you want more, you can also get 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:08.640 the sequel, Margaret atwards new book, The Testaments. But with 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.440 pointing out problems, I also feel like we need to 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:16.839 offer some solutions. Remember the nineteen seventy two educational television 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:22.160 series Free to Be You and Me, Folks like ROBERTA. Flack, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:27.600 Michael Jackson, and Diana Ross remind America that gender and 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:42.960 racial stereotypes can in fact be broken. And it's now 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.079 nearly half a century later and we need a new 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:51.080 version of this Free to Be Here. The message is simple, 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:56.520 Americas shouldn't judge you because unless you're Native American, you've 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.440 come from somewhere else. A catchy jingle on every radio 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:04.440 station across the country would never do better public good 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.000 if radio can magically make you hum ed. Shearon and 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:17.800 Taylor Swift Well orthodoptr Rhys Jones, in his book Violent Borders, 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.679 Refugees and the Right to Move, argues that getting rid 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.120 of borders is in fact simply a human rights issue 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.240 because let's face it, the border is in fact only 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:34.520 inside you, and it's time to rethink how you're living, voting, 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.840 and being in this world. Are they keeping them out 0:10:41.240 --> 0:11:01.439 or they're keeping you in? Under his eye, let's take 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.080 a breather and we'll be right back with everywhere after 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:10.679 a word from our sponsors. Thanks for sticking around. Here's 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:18.000 more of everywhere. For my next interview, I'm with my 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.040 friend Sasha Fung, who happens to work at the u N. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:25.679 But more interestingly, we met on an aeroplane to Jordan's 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:33.200 and stayed up all night talking. Sasha, I met you 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.760 on a plane heading to Amn and I started chatting 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:42.840 to you, and I offered you something to sleep, which 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.680 you refused, But we ended up being friends anyway and 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.680 spent the most magical time in Aman. And now we 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:54.240 are fast friends, and I've met your kids, and I'm 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.480 so grateful that we are friends, because you are one 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.440 of the smartest people I've ever met, and I feel 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.320 privileged to be in your realm. So thanks for being 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:09.079 in studio with me today. And Ella, who snapping peacefully 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.320 in your arms. It's amazing to be here. I mean, 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.760 considering the people I've sat next to, this was like 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.439 the winning lottery ticket. I felt the same. And when 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.680 you walked down the aisle and you plumped yourself next 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.800 to me, I had that split second of oh, I 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:25.880 was hoping the seat next to me would stay free. 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.920 But then you started, and you launched into this conversation. 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.960 Zero notion of small talk. It was right to the essence, like, 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.439 let's not waste time. We only have a twelve hour 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:39.600 flight ahead of us, and we needed to sleep on 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:41.280 that flight. I was getting up to work and you 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:46.480 were presenting to some fancy director board, not very fancy. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.600 But so the thing that got us talking was you 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:55.440 mentioned Eritrea to me, and you had been stationed working 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.560 for the u N in Eritrea for two years almost 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:03.280 and we got talking about this incredible country. So perhaps 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.760 start with telling me how that happened and how you 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.560 found yourself in this magical place, which I don't think 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.720 a lot of people know about. It is a magical place. 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.240 I was only there for one year, but would have 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.600 gladly stayed longer, except that I had my husband and 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.199 my kids in San Francisco and the commute between Asmara 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.880 and the Bay area of California is a tricky one, 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.360 and I would have otherwise loved to stay. It's a 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.720 place that I always had a craving to go see. 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.640 When I was at university, my roommate across the corridor 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.920 launched an aery Trea independence support organization and we were 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.640 sending all sorts of things to ery Trea because they 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.920 had just become independent, and it was this huge deal. 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.560 And then I nearly had a chance to go earlier 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.800 in my career but couldn't, and so it was like 0:13:57.840 --> 0:13:59.839 this itch I needed to scratch. I had this q 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.679 curiosity for this place that continued to be so mysterious, 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.200 and so when I got the chance to go a 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:10.160 second time, I just knew, this is it. This is 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.520 actually an experience I want to have, and it's one 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.640 that I'm willing to leave my husband and kids for. 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.520 I want to go to Eritrea. I want to see it. 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:22.720 I want to work there. So you flew in and 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.520 you arrive and what is it? What is the country 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.880 which is in the horn of Africa and not on 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.040 the heart list of anyone traveling? Well, you know, that 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.960 was the amazing part about it, because how many places 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.080 do you go to in today's globalized world, where we 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.320 have so much information about everything, and you have Google 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.800 maps and you can see everything and sort of form 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:52.080 an opinion. But about Eritrea, I had barely any opinion 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.760 at all, except a few books that I had read 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.040 and a few things that I'd heard from friends and colleagues. 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.960 Whould work there, So I came with this completely blank 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.520 slate and a lot of expectations and a little bit 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:09.200 of trepidation, you know, going completely into the unknown. And 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.000 there was something about just landing there. Remember being picked 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.680 up at the airport and some people came to greet me, 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.520 and I felt this affinity. It's kind of hard to describe, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.600 but I think that happens to all of us. You know, 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.120 there are places where you instantly somehow feel more at 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.720 home than in others. And I can't quite describe it, 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.760 but it's a feeling that sort of grew quite quickly, 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.040 and it just made me feel a lot more at 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.720 home than I had any rights of feeding because it 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.160 was pretty alien in some ways. But they'd put me 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.600 up in this sort of one big hotel in town. 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.720 And I decided the next day that I was going 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.480 to go explore, and so I went off with my 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.880 sneakers on a dusty track and someone had said, oh, yeah, 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.280 i'll just follow this road and you'll find the cathedral. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.920 Of course, I didn't find the cathedral. I walked for 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.960 ages and I was getting really thirsty, and I realized 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.960 I had no NUCKFI, didn't have the local currency, and 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.280 it's really quite tricky to change naka because you're only 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.920 allowed to change it in certain government locations. And so 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.480 I realized I had no no nakfa, no water, no 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.280 working phone, and I was trapesing along on this beautiful 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.440 sunny day. And then this little group of kids picked 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.920 me up and they said, China, China, because that's what 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.600 they call for. And I don't think I look particularly Asian, 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.080 but all I could hear was China, China. You lost. 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.440 And I said, yeah, I think China has lost. And 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.000 they're like, what do you want to go see? And 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.960 I said cathedral and they say, we take you. It 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.480 was a band of little kids, and they had this 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:45.200 sort of dried injera, which is the staple in their pockets, 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.680 and they were trying to give me bits of India 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.160 because you know, they're very hospitable air trey and so 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.160 he wanted to make sure I wasn't about to keel 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.240 over from starvation. And then they took me to the 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:01.280 cathedral and they said, here's cathedral. Here cathedral, And I 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:06.600 was suddenly in the middle of Asmara, which honestly looks 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.560 as though you've traveled in time to the nineteen fifties. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.280 I don't think it has changed very much. There are 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:18.680 these Italian buildings. There's a stone cathedral, this wide avenue 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.119 with palm trees, Bouginvilia everywhere. Because the Italians brought a 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.280 lot of that. There's a lot of local erritray and 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.359 masonry that's kind of blended in. And then you see 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.040 these old gentlemen walking with their Borsellino hats and their 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.080 coats that are far too big for them, and and 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.040 you have sort of quite Italianate names, and you have 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.320 these ancient cars, and it really feels like you've gone 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.239 back in time. It felt so magical. And so I 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.399 was standing in front of this cathedral looking down at 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.959 this sort of nineteen fifties city scape. You know, it's 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.520 a small sleepy town Asmara, with this little group of 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.480 kids who are kind of waiting for me to take 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:02.479 in the beauty of their case Edril. And then I 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.040 wanted to thank them for having gone out of their 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:07.879 way like it didn't want them to get in trouble. 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.360 And I said, can I buy you a little pastry? 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.360 Because I had heard that there was some fantastic pastry 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.359 and as matter, you know, old Sicilian cookies that they 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.160 stopped making in Sicily decades ago, but old grandmother still 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.399 make them and as mater and they said, yeah, sure. 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.960 So we went to the little pastry shop and I'd 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.159 managed by that point to change a few nakfa. I 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.600 had no idea exactly how many, but I figured a 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.160 few pastries so it would probably be okay. And then 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.000 they said, now you buy yourself pastries, but we don't 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.520 want any, and I said, what do you mean your kids? 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.800 Of course you want pastries, and they said no. And 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:46.880 there was something that I then got to learn quite 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:51.760 quickly in Eritrea. This pride, you know, this self reliance. 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.520 You don't just take what's given to you. You feel 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.760 like you have to deserve it. And they somehow felt 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:02.520 that they didn't need to be rewarded. And coming from 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.680 the States or you know, from northern Europe, where everybody 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.280 has such a built in expectation to be rewarded for anything, 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.960 this was like and I had to literally stand there 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.520 on the street corner and negotiate with them, these five 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.680 six seven year olds, please, will you accept a pastry? 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.879 And by the way, just the fact that with English 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.360 I could negotiate with them already tells you a lot 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.920 about this country. I think, you know, they spoke English 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.639 well enough to be involved in this conversation with this 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.080 random person they'd sort of picked up. So I kind 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:37.840 of reckon. I'm a pretty good negotiator, but but I 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:40.720 didn't have a patch on those kids, and so in 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:42.680 the end, the best I could get out of them 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.040 was their agreement that the youngest in the group I 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.720 was allowed to buy a pastry for, not the others, 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:53.400 just the baby. And this happened day two, depending how 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:56.640 you count. I'd arrived the night before, and that's sort 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.719 of what set me up for my year there. That experience, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.160 it's beautiful. It's a beautiful lesson. If only we could 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:08.440 apply that lesson in Western civilization. Do you think we 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.400 call Africa the West? It's like a weird thing being 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.760 from South Africa, Like people call us western and I'm like, well, 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:18.320 Erry Tree, it feels very Eastern to me at the 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.680 same time, very European. It's been such a melting pot 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.680 of cultures, and I think that's why I also felt 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.720 that affinity. They identify with a lot of different cultures, 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:31.800 so it makes it easier for you to identify with them. 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:33.400 But so it's a good question. I would not call 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.600 erry Tree of the West. I mean, there's no McDonald's, 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.920 there's no three G, there's no diet Coke. I would 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:44.159 not call it the West. Let's talk about the food, 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.719 because I know that I've never woken up and been like, 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.840 can't wait to go eat some error trained food tonight. 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.280 There's every culture you could possibly imagine in my city. 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.760 I don't know of the error train restaurant. I'm sure 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.280 it's here, and I will find it and we will 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.120 go there, but it's not something I think many people 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:10.359 know about. Erytrain food, at least in a matter where 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:14.359 I spent most of my time, is very similar to Ethiopian, 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:18.560 but there's some really important differences. Essentially, it's in Gera 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.360 is the sort of staple and it's that big, sort 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:26.679 of spongy flatbread, and it's made out of what the 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.760 Ethiopians called deaf and we in Eritrea are called tough, 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.840 and it's supposed to be a superfood. It might be 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.600 gluten free or very low in gluten, has a really 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.560 high iron content, and the air tray and swear by it. 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:43.439 It's like there's something about national identity, and in Gera 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:46.359 people carry it around with them, and some people have 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:48.160 actually said to me, I don't know what I would do. 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:50.400 I don't know how it could live anywhere else where. 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:52.920 They don't make injera, and the funny thing is that 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.520 there's a big air tray in diaspora and many of 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.720 them go out to other places, like this woman was 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.560 telling me she went to Angola and made a little 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.159 bit of money by making injera for airy trains that 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.639 were at the time working in Angola. Like India is 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:10.360 the symbol for so much of the country, and it's 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.280 really fantastic because you can add all these extra sort 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:15.320 of bits to it. And it's very communal, so you 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.400 eat with your hands and people take their time. Nobody's 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.600 checking their phone, and you couldn't anyway, would be far 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.280 too messy because you're eating with your hands. You don't 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:28.160 sit there with your carefully guarded plates and knife and fork. 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.359 You know, there's a big platter in the middle, and 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.160 everybody piles in and you learn all the different things 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:36.920 that go into the Injia, and my favorites were actually 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:40.960 the fasting food. So many erry trains are very devout 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:46.480 and food and religion are closely intertwined. They have many 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:50.800 periods where they're observing fasting and they will be absolutely rigorous, 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.280 and the fasting food just means without meat, and so 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:55.879 that's when you get all these creative vegetarian dishes. So 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.160 I actually always quite like the fasting food. There's one 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:03.080 thing I didn't, and unfortunately, that's the one dish that 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:05.240 people prepare for you when you're a guest of honor 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:10.560 in someone's house. And it's called AT and it's basically 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:14.160 a porridge, but you eat it with melted butter and 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:19.520 chili powder and yogurt and it's incredibly rich. When you're 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:22.000 expecting a baby, you're supposed to eat it because there's 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:26.800 a a belief that that's good for young expectant mothers, 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:32.120 not for me. It looks beautiful, like this sort of mountain, 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.800 and presenting a AT is such a sign of welcome 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:41.760 to my home. That was difficult, and I would try 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:44.320 and find ways of saying, I know your wife is 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:46.840 very busy. Please tell her she doesn't have to do 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.680 AT for me, or I will just come from lunch. 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.320 You know, no need for AT. Coffee is fine, because 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.680 the one thing I loved is the eritrey and coffee ceremony. 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:59.600 That is something for the senses. I'm Austrian, so I 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:03.160 love coffee. I'm obsessed with coffee. But it's about as 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:06.959 far away as you could get from your caramel latte 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:10.359 Grunde with sprinkles on top in Starbucks as you could 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:13.560 possibly imagine. You know, this is the real thing. Where 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:18.040 you hear the coffee beans being roasted in this old 0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:21.880 metal pan over the fire, so you hear the click, 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:24.680 click click click click of the beans and then they 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:27.800 start smelling good, and you're supposed to wave your hand 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:31.399 over the smoke of the beans towards your nose, and 0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:33.960 that's a sort of respect sign of respect to the 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:37.800 person who's preparing the coffee. And then the coffee comes, 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:40.080 and there's always a little bit of popcorn and in 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:44.280 gerra and other things with it. And you sit and 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:46.919 you have the first round, and then you have the 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:49.800 second round, and then you have the third, which is 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:55.000 called baraka means blessing. And maybe after the third round 0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:58.639 you can be on your way, but maybe not, because 0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:00.960 then sometimes there's a fourth throat out and there's a 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.399 fifth round. And this is a sort of centerpiece of 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.600 people's life. You know, this is how they communicate. They 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:12.960 communicate over coffee, and it's perfectly acceptable for life to 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:17.320 just stop because you're having coffee. And then I think, 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:19.600 you know, when you stand here in the line for 0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:22.359 your take out and you're rushing off with it to 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:26.960 some meeting, how different we have evolved around this ancient 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:29.880 tradition of coffee and there it's still ancient. I think 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:32.679 there's a century old thing as far as I know, 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:36.600 and you feel that, you know. That's why I booked 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:40.320 a counterculture barista to come and spend the afternoon with 0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:43.879 us and slowly make coffee for the last five hours 0:25:43.880 --> 0:25:47.600 in studio. I knew that you were going to tell 0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:53.399 me some slow, beautiful Eritrey and coffee story. What is 0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:56.840 the thing that touched you the most? What is the 0:25:56.840 --> 0:25:59.200 thing that sticks with you that you just can't stop 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:04.119 thinking about. I think the thing that touched me the 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:13.760 most is realizing this thirst for opportunity and willingness to 0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:18.040 make something out of opportunities that I saw, especially in 0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:24.280 young people. For example, there's a quite a vibrant music scene, 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:29.640 which is a bit counterintuitive because Eritrea is a country 0:26:29.680 --> 0:26:33.160 that struggled for thirty years to gain its independence against 0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:38.359 overwhelming odds where promoting the arts was not exactly a 0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:43.240 top priority. And then with the isolation and the sanctions, 0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:46.840