WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Madeleine McCann 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:16.079 Thinking Sideways. I don't interest you never know stories of 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:21.120 things we simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys, 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:26.680 welcome to another super exciting episode of Thinking Sideways of 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:32.720 the podcast. I'm Devin, joined as always by and Steve, 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:37.519 and we're going to tackle another unsolved mystery. Super unhappy 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.879 about it, and I'm just saying I'm apologizing in advance. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:42.600 You know, there's been a whole lot of talk about 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.000 John Benet Ramsey. That's how you say that, right, John 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:50.360 by John Believe John Bene Ramsey lately, and I think 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:54.200 it's mostly because of that a m a that happened. Um. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.560 But we're not ready to tackle that one, if ever. 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.080 I mean probably we will at some point, but it's huge, 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:03.360 and we want to get some experts and do really 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.800 do it right more more all lot Jeff Davis eight 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.720 sort of situation. But instead I will bring you something 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:16.520 equally tragic that is, honestly, I think a little more 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.480 interesting than the John bon A Ramsey mystery. It is 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.959 a strange little tale. It's strange, it's really strange. We're 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.560 going to talk about the disappearance of Madeline McCann and 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.399 a few points of order before I start one is 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.240 that this is one of those stories that Steve hates 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.280 that deals with missing little kids. So if that's not 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:36.839 your cup of tea, it's not in particularly gory or 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.880 anything like that. It's just a missing kid. But if 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:41.559 that's not your cup of tea, this is one to skip. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.000 So I can skip this. No, you cannot. Come on, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.200 I don't want to help. You gotta this is part 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.720 of the deal, Steve. We do the ones I don't 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.040 want to do. Fine, I'll help, but I'm not gonna 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:54.720 like it. Yeah, I know you won't. Okay, we've got 0:01:54.720 --> 0:02:01.400 to solve this one, guys. Also, this was a recommendation 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.200 from Yohan right. Johan right, Yeah, I think last year. 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:07.920 Late last year. I called DIBs on it. I'm sorry, 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:14.799 it's taking me Okay, guys ready sure, Sadly Steve is 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:19.600 not no cool. Sorry. Madeline McCann was born in May 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:24.000 of two thousand three to Kate and Jerry McCann. They 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.839 were both physicians, uh and they also had a set 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.200 of twins that were younger than Madeline. She was born 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:37.880 in oh Lester. The good news is we've been getting 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:44.079 a lot of feedback about mispronouncing stuff and sorry, it's 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.440 got to happen a lot in this episode. But also, 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.640 let's be fair, it's just the way we pronounce it 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.120 in America. Sometimes some of this stuff is just the 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:54.120 way we say it here. Sorry. Anyways, So they lived 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.079 in Oh my gosh, how did we say it, Lester? 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.280 It looks like it's should be Leicester, but think it's 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.320 pronounced last year, okay. And then in May and two 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.440 thousand and seven, the McCanns went on holiday holiday to 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.240 Portugal with a group of family friends and their children 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:14.240 as well. The adults of this group eventually became became 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.720 to be referred as the Top of seven. And I 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.760 think they were the Top of seven. We're not didn't 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.360 include the Meccans, right did I thought? I thought there 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.160 were nine people in the group, and then the Top 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.560 of seven with the seven friends of the Meccans. You're right. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.959 I'm sorry, you're right. Okay. I'm the storyteller here and 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:35.200 I can't remember who. Sorry. Point of order. So May 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:36.960 three was the last day of the trip. We're just 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:38.680 going to delve right into the story. It's a long one. 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:39.920 I'm sorry. That's gonna be one of those ones you 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.080 have to listen to me talk for a while. Damn 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.080 the way you drone off. I know. I'm sorry, It's 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:50.160 just like want want, walt walt wa. So. May three 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.520 was the last day of this trip and the group 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.240 was staying at a resort called something that Joe is 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.280 going to have to pronounce for me. Well, I'm probably 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.560 gonna mangle it, but I think it's prior to lose. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:04.760 That sounds right. Yeah. There were eight kids that were 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.720 part of the group, and they spent much of their 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.560 day at the kids club in this resort. That morning, 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:12.760 while the top of seven took a walk, the kids 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:14.880 played in the kids club, and then after lunch, the 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.279 families headed to the pool, where the very last known 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.839 picture of Madeleine was taken. After the pool, the kids 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.160 went back to the kids club until about six pm. 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.880 I'm guessing that was probably check out, come time, come 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:28.560 get your kids. You know, I don't have that sense. 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:30.120 I have the sense that kids could stay as long 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.160 as they wanted, just because of some stuff that happens 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:34.920 a little bit later in But it's it resorts like that, 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.000 typically you could drop your kids off if you're going 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.440 to have dinner, say, which would be like a safe 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.400 alternative to some of the things that happened in this story. Yeah, 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.040 I kind of kind of wonder why they didn't use 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.279 the little daycare center. Yeah, that's my sense. I could 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.240 be wrong. I know that when I worked on the 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.080 cruise ship we had that, and I think a lot 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:52.840 of resorts offer that sort of thing. It would make 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:57.680 sense kind of almost seven care for kids, but almost 0:04:57.800 --> 0:04:59.719 if you want to party in that a way though, Yeah, yeah, 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.719 you may as well drop your kids off. Anyways. Jerry, 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:07.520 Gary Jerry. Jerry had a tennis lesson at six, So 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.120 Kate picked up the kids and hung out with them 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:11.560 for a little while and you know, fed them and 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.200 bathe them and all that stuff. And then at about 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:18.640 seven she put she and Jerry both Gary Jerry Jerry. 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:20.720 Oh my gosh, this is like Parks and wreck up 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:26.800 and here I'm so sorry Jerry name sorry Jerry, and Kate. 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.000 The mom put their three kids to bed in the 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.320 room that the kids were sleeping in. It wasn't the 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:35.960 room they were all sleeping in. It was the parents 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:37.600 had the one room, and then there was an apartment. 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.360 It was an apartment, yeah, and the kids had one room. 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.240 They were all sharing the two little ones were in 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.640 a crib set up next to a single bed that 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.800 Madeline was staying in. Madeleine was wearing pink or pj's 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.560 and cuddling with her pink blanket and pink cuddle cat. 0:05:52.720 --> 0:06:00.480 She liked pink what girl. By the way, Okay, you know, 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.800 I spent so long since I've read Winnie the Pooh, 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:09.680 I mean, I've forgotten about you are. How we're that's 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.920 a different mystery, been a long time, Yeah, because nothing 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:18.680 ever bad happens to upper middle class white folks that 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.159 are out of resort. The top of seven and the 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.760 Meccans followed their typical evening routine, which was leaving their 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.680 kids in an unlocked room and having dinner. Yeah, yeah, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.280 top Us, which is where seven comes from. Retrospect, it 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.400 does seem like about maybe not a great idea. They 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.320 were about a hundred and sixty feet as the crow 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.880 flies away from the apartment the Meccans were staying in 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.640 is five A, which apparently, according to Kate, was about 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.400 a thirty or forty five second walk. I'm having a 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.720 really hard time figuring out how this place was set up. 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.040 But yeah, that's one of the things that's surprised at 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:54.800 is that for all the stuff that's been written on 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:58.719 the internet about this, nobody, nobody anywhere has a layout 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.320 of the resort. Yeah, I've never I did a lot 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:03.960 of looking for that, and I couldn't find a one. 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.839 I've got a guess that it's in. It's one of 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:11.240 those places where the restaurants and everything are centrally located 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.280 and all the apartments are splayed around them in kind 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:19.000 of an arc. Yeah, although everybody relatively straight access the description. 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:21.040 The description that I heard was that they were on 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.560 the other side of the pool, So I don't totally 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.800 know how this whole thing was set up. But they 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.600 had reserved this specific table that was close to their 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.880 rooms for PM for the entire time that they were 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.160 on holiday. And the way that Kate reserved this table 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.160 again because nothing bad ever happens to up her white 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.320 middle people, was she wrote a note and just left 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.240 it on the front desk where like anybody could have 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.800 seen it. And this is this is indicative of a 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.840 bunch of things that seem innocuous to anybody who's doing 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.280 them until something like this happened that fair and you 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.640 start all of these silly little things you think nothing 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.200 of start cross. He's wrote a little red flags that 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.160 you know you kind of you can look back on 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.080 and say, well, I was dumb. Why would you do 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.800 that that you don't even think about in the moment. 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.000 But she said in the note, she said, what I 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:15.960 want this table so I can watch my kids in 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.720 apartment five Sea. She said, we're part of a group 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.520 that are all in this block of apartments. We've got 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.560 kids with us that will be in bed. Uh, so 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:26.760 we want to reserve this table that's the closest one 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:28.920 for eight thirty every night for the time that we're here. 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.280 And I remember something about she had written some of this, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.720 or at least the request. I want to say it 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.440 was in a guest book. Is this what? Yeah? So 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.160 it wasn't just a posed it note. It was in 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.840 the book that anybody walking by could have read, okay, 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.920 just making sure yea. So probably another guest you signed 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.880 in right after them. Always possible. As mentioned, they did 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.000 this every night. This was what they did every night. 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.120 So it was a strong pattern, and had somebody been 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.920 planning anything nefarious, it would have been a fairly easy 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:00.680 thing to plan because they knew exactly what was going 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.880 to happen at eight thirty every night. Oh and also 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.200 as a fun side note, because the patio was closest 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:13.040 to the restaurant. They yeah, they left the patio door 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.640 unlocked because it only locked from the inside. They left, 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.679 they left it closed, but they left it unlocked instead of, 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.400 you know, adding the extra whatever ten seconds to walk 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.720 around to the front and use your key and at 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.240 least kind of safely have your kids in a locked 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.319 apartment seems like a better idea. It seems like a 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.760 better idea. Again, It's one of those little red flags, 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.760 right that you would think I would think, as a 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.520 not parent who doesn't have to deal with kids all 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.240 the time, I would think I would absolutely lock them 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:45.400 in that apartment too. But I can see this. I 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.720 can see my parents doing something like this in the 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:54.800 late seventies early eighties, when people didn't have bad things 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.560 happen all the time that they knew about. Not to 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.520 say that bad things didn't happen, but when everybody is 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:06.080 so security conscious, it shocks me. And the only thing 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.600 that I can think that prompted this is a bit 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.960 of what you were alluding to, which is they come 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:16.800 from a very comfortable, safe place so those simple security 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.480 steps just don't seem necessary. Well, I mean, it's the 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.000 only way I can rationalize this. And you're you're in 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.559 a fancy resort too, you have you know, people will 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.960 typically expect things to be safer conditions there, right, Yeah, 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.040 but it's not. I the sense that I have is 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.360 that the pattio opens out into a street at least 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:39.080 an alleyway. It's not oh so that the patio. I 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.320 thought the patio doors were visible from the topas restaurant. 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.720 They weren't. They were, they were. But just because it's visible, 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.199 it doesn't mean you're staring at it the whole time. No, 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.760 not at all. But and it's a row of patio doors, 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.600 so you know, the person that's in the apartment next 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.840 to you maybe coming and going out of the patio doors, 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.720 and you don't you can't necessarily tell the difference. I 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.320 suppose it's dark and all that. Yeah, how many times 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.600 have you been out at a restaurant on a patio 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.920 in the evening and had a conversation and dinner with 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:12.640 people and never noticed the jillion people that walked by 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.240 across the street. You're focused in front of you, not 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.200 really far away, not to say that they're bad parents 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.200 and they weren't watching. But you can't watch that continually. 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.160 Would you would think they'd be like kind of keeping 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.080 an eye on it, though, you would you think that 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:29.320 I would think that, wouldn't you. To their credit, the 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.000 parents did take shifts on checking on the kids, you know, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.720 because all of the parents wasn't just Maddie's Madeline's parents. 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.040 I'm gonna call her Maddie. Um, I've seen it a 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.640 couple of times. It's not always there, but I am 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.520 going to call her Maddie, just so you SAME's the 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.760 same thing. I'm not adding a new character. Don't worry. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.760 Maddie's parents weren't the only ones who left a kid unattended. 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:52.600 As I said, They were eight kids in total, and 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.080 they were all left in their rooms and I think 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.360 they all, as far as I can understand, had unlocked 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.640 patio doors and they were all doing this. They were 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:02.520 all kind of doing this. Well, there's five other children 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.839 besides the McCanns, because they had the twins and then 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.920 mat Yeah, Jerry carried out the first check at nine 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.480 oh five pm, which was, you know, about a half 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.360 hour after they left him alone. He said that he 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.520 thought that he had left the door to the kid's 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.880 room only slightly open, at maybe a five or ten 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:25.320 degrees openness angle. Yeah, but when he checked on them, 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.240 the door was wide open. He pulled it back to 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.560 be almost entirely shut after, you know, glancing in on them, 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.160 and then returned to dinner. And then at nine fifteen, 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.080 another one of the top of seven, Jane Tanner, went 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.720 to check on her kids. She said that she passed 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.080 Jerry on the way back to check on her kids, 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:43.800 you know, like I said, it was that alleyway street 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:45.400 way they would have both had to have walked on 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:49.320 to get to their apartments. And he said that he 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.400 had stopped to chat with another vacationer on his way back. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.560 And the oddity here is that neither Jerry nor the 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.600 other man saw Jane Tanner. And the street was apparently 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.199 pretty narrow. It sounds more like it's an alley than 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.199 a street to me. Yeah, that's kind of my sense. 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.880 It's like an alley way. It's not. Yeah, it's an 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.200 alleyway basically, but it's a fair you know, it's it's 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.679 a street that people take to walk and things like that. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.160 It's not like a weird dead end alleyway, right, it's 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.240 not full of dumpsters and rats and all of that. 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.960 It's just more of a walkway than it is at anyway. 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.040 So that's that's a little odd that they would have 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:29.360 not seen her, and so yeah, it's unlikely that she 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.480 could have just passed them without them noticing or anything 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.680 like that. Anyways, Tanner said that she saw a man 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.080 with the child and his arms crossed the street just 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.160 ahead of her. Will get more on that later, But 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.520 she checked in with her kids and then returned to 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.720 dinner at Kate had intended to check on her kids, 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.840 but one of the other or one of the top 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.480 of seven, not other top of seven, said that he 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.600 was going to go check on his kids, so he'd 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.000 look on in on there's two because hey, the door's unlocked, 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.200 so he can just peek in, no problem. It's important 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:04.360 to note that these these checks weren't necessarily to make 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.040 sure that they were the kind of checks you do 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.000 when you've got kids who maybe wake up in the 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.440 middle of the night and start playing when they're not 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.319 supposed to, not the kind of checks that you do 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.880 when you've left your apartment un locked in a weird 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.480 place and you're paranoid about your kids getting stolen. Yeah. Well, 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.960 and I I've I got to say initially, that's what 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.840 I took from when Jerry said, well, I swear I 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.400 shut that door and then it was open. That was 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.880 my initial reaction, is that Madeline must have gotten up 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.920 to use the bathroom. Yeah, I mean, not to not 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:35.760 to pull us off track, but no, know, I mean 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.120 I think that's that's a very easy thing, and we 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.360 should definitely keep that in mind. That you've got a 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:46.120 kid who's probably pretty potty trained at that point, you know, 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:48.600 may wake up in the middle of the night, have 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.200 to go to the bathrooms and not going to close 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.040 the door all the way, you know, all of that 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.400 sort of stuff. It's unlikely that she would have woken 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.680 up half an hour after just half an hour after 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.600 they had put her down, but I guess she had 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:01.040 been asleep for about an hour and a half at 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.920 that point, so she may have. You know, it's it's 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.640 we do need to keep that in absolutely. But as 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.560 I said this, it's important to note that this is 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.000 the kind of check you do to make sure your 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.960 kid isn't like up and playing. Matthew Oldfield was the 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.160 one who he was one of the top of seven. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:21.400 He was the one who did this check of Yeah, 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.720 and he said that he didn't hear any noises coming 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.080 from the room, but the door was once again wide open, 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.720 so he pulled it shut without looking in the room, right, 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.200 because he didn't hear a kid playing or you know, 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.400 making noises or anything in distress. So he just thought 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.400 another find they're sleeping. I'm not going to bother to him. 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.920 Actually look, well, Jerry, Jerry went earlier and pulled the 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.160 door shut. Did he actually look to see if he 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.800 said that he saw the kids. Yeah, he said that 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:46.680 he looked in that Maddie was in her bed at 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:51.040 that time, but that's what he said. Yeah, in fairness. 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:55.160 At about ten, Kate did actually do another check. She 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.640 entered through the patio doors and noticed that the door 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.520 to the kid's room was once again wide open, and 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.800 when she attempted to close it, uh, it slams shot 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:05.560 on her, like there was a draft in the room. 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:10.000 Maybe A note again to mention that it seems unlikely 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.000 had the door not slammed, Kate would have actually looked 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.120 in the room. Look in the room. Well, I don't 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:17.640 think she was planning on it. I think it was 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.360 kind of like when Jerry did his, or I guess 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.520 it was when Matthew did his. She just went to 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.000 close the door. She didn't seem to actually look in 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:29.160 the room. That's kind of an explicable Okay, why why 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.680 in the hell are you going to look at in 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.760 your apartment at your kids? If all you're doing is 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.000 to go in and stand and go and listen here anything, 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:42.160 wouldn't you just peek in see if they're there, you know, 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.680 and then wander back, Because isn't that why you're going 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.480 to check on them? You want to make sure they're 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:48.920 not getting into trouble, not to make sure that they're there. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.040 Because I don't kids dnapped, I haven't ever dealt with 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.760 young children, But to me, it would seem logical. If 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.400 I'm going to go make sure they're up, I'm just 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.240 going to look in and make sure that somebody's not 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.000 just sitting there fidgeting and is actually asleep. So yes, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.399 I agree. Every time I've ever taken care of kids 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.560 overnight or otherwise, if they're supposed to be sleeping, I 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.560 will actually put eyes on them. Yeah, but also doors 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.600 slamming on their own like that um doesn't that race 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.119 suspicions right there? Well, but that's why, right, That's what 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.640 I'm saying is that I'm just making the note that 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:24.800 she saw the doors open and she thought, oh, I 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:26.840 will close that door, and she went to close it 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.400 and it slammed, so she opened it up and realized 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.600 that Maddie wasn't there anymore. Ok. Yeah, after it slammed 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.400 shut on her. I was just mentioning that it seems 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.359 that her intention was simply to close the door and 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.600 had not slammed. I don't know that she would have 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:46.440 opened it not to you know, be liabel ng anybody, 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.480 but it doesn't seem like she would have. No It 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.119 seems like her intention was to make sure there was 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.119 no noise and then get back to dinner. On the 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:58.200 bed was Maddie's cuddle cat and blanket, but not not 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.560 Maddie and Kate ran back to the restaurants screaming and 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.960 the window was open. Correct, the window was open. I 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.280 don't know if it was a security shutter, but it 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.680 was a shutter. The pictures I've seen, because I've seen 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:14.960 pictures of the shutters, they look like they're just shutters. 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.600 They don't look like they're security measure of any kind. Okay, 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.560 So Kate ran back to the restaurants, screaming they've taken her. 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:29.320 Of note right, she's screaming they've taken her. Whoever they are. Yeah, 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.400 and then at ten ten, Old Field Matthew, the guy 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.560 who did the check right before Maddie was taken or 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.080 maybe she was taken, who knows, was sent to reception 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.720 to have the resort called the police, and at ten 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.639 thirty the resort activated it's quote missing child search protocol. 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.680 The staff above of about sixty people looked for Maddie 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:55.960 until about four thirty am, and apparently at first everybody 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:57.879 kind of thought that Maddie had just woken up and 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.000 wandered off. That's understand A good reason I lock your 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.800 kids in the apartment. Yeah, it is understandable. However it 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:11.479 created some problems. Yeah, to National Guard officers showed up 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:16.000 at eleven ten pm. They searched briefly, but soon decided, oh, hey, 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.840 actually we need the criminal police here. So the criminal 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.719 police were alerted and they arrived at about midnight. This 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:28.200 is the National Guard. These guys are Portugal Portuguese National Guards. 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.719 And then at about two am, two patrol dogs showed up, 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:37.280 and then not until eight am did four search and 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:41.679 rescue dogs show up. These are the actual sensitive Yes, 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.719 the patrol dogs, I think are are just kind of 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.239 to smell. I don't have a good sense on what 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.800 they're good. They're just canine units. Yeah, But then the 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.080 search and rescue dogs. The search and rescue dogs would 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.640 have been meant to smell, but you know, not until 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.400 eight am. And this is where we encounter the biggest 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:04.040 problem of this case really is that everyone other than 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:06.679 the top of seven and the Meccans seemed to have 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.359 thought that Maddie just woke up, woke up, and wandered off, 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.000 so the area wasn't treated like a crime scene at all. 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.600 In fact, about twenty people accessed the room that Maddie 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.720 had been taken from before it was closed off, thus 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.440 probably ruining almost all of the evidence that would have existed. 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.080 The room was never actually secured, and though it laid 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.960 empty for about a month after the abduction, the resort 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.080 rented the room out before forensic evidence was taken. In August, 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.600 this room was rented out before forensic evidence was taken. 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.520 Let me let me ask a question that I think 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.600 you might have answered. But how long was it before 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:52.000 the cops decided this was something other than a wandered 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.720 off kid. I think it was at two a m. 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:59.080 When the dogs arrived, and it took them over a 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.760 month to it there forensic guys in there. Yeah, they 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.480 actually had some fingerprints taken the day after. But you 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.800 can see the picture of you should look it up online. Yeah, 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:12.240 there's stomps. People were trooping through there like oh no, 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:16.119