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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't interest you never know stories of

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Speaker 1: things we simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: welcome to another super exciting episode of Thinking Sideways of

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Devin, joined as always by and Steve,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to tackle another unsolved mystery. Super unhappy

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Speaker 1: about it, and I'm just saying I'm apologizing in advance.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's been a whole lot of talk about

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Speaker 1: John Benet Ramsey. That's how you say that, right, John

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Speaker 1: by John Believe John Bene Ramsey lately, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's mostly because of that a m a that happened. Um.

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Speaker 1: But we're not ready to tackle that one, if ever.

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Speaker 1: I mean probably we will at some point, but it's huge,

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Speaker 1: and we want to get some experts and do really

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Speaker 1: do it right more more all lot Jeff Davis eight

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Speaker 1: sort of situation. But instead I will bring you something

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Speaker 1: equally tragic that is, honestly, I think a little more

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Speaker 1: interesting than the John bon A Ramsey mystery. It is

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Speaker 1: a strange little tale. It's strange, it's really strange. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the disappearance of Madeline McCann and

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Speaker 1: a few points of order before I start one is

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Speaker 1: that this is one of those stories that Steve hates

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Speaker 1: that deals with missing little kids. So if that's not

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Speaker 1: your cup of tea, it's not in particularly gory or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. It's just a missing kid. But if

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Speaker 1: that's not your cup of tea, this is one to skip.

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Speaker 1: So I can skip this. No, you cannot. Come on,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to help. You gotta this is part

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Speaker 1: of the deal, Steve. We do the ones I don't

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Speaker 1: want to do. Fine, I'll help, but I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: like it. Yeah, I know you won't. Okay, we've got

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Speaker 1: to solve this one, guys. Also, this was a recommendation

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Speaker 1: from Yohan right. Johan right, Yeah, I think last year.

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Speaker 1: Late last year. I called DIBs on it. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: it's taking me Okay, guys ready sure, Sadly Steve is

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Speaker 1: not no cool. Sorry. Madeline McCann was born in May

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Speaker 1: of two thousand three to Kate and Jerry McCann. They

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Speaker 1: were both physicians, uh and they also had a set

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Speaker 1: of twins that were younger than Madeline. She was born

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Speaker 1: in oh Lester. The good news is we've been getting

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Speaker 1: a lot of feedback about mispronouncing stuff and sorry, it's

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Speaker 1: got to happen a lot in this episode. But also,

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Speaker 1: let's be fair, it's just the way we pronounce it

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Speaker 1: in America. Sometimes some of this stuff is just the

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Speaker 1: way we say it here. Sorry. Anyways, So they lived

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Speaker 1: in Oh my gosh, how did we say it, Lester?

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Speaker 1: It looks like it's should be Leicester, but think it's

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Speaker 1: pronounced last year, okay. And then in May and two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven, the McCanns went on holiday holiday to

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Speaker 1: Portugal with a group of family friends and their children

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Speaker 1: as well. The adults of this group eventually became became

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Speaker 1: to be referred as the Top of seven. And I

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Speaker 1: think they were the Top of seven. We're not didn't

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Speaker 1: include the Meccans, right did I thought? I thought there

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Speaker 1: were nine people in the group, and then the Top

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Speaker 1: of seven with the seven friends of the Meccans. You're right.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you're right. Okay. I'm the storyteller here and

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Speaker 1: I can't remember who. Sorry. Point of order. So May

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Speaker 1: three was the last day of the trip. We're just

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Speaker 1: going to delve right into the story. It's a long one.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. That's gonna be one of those ones you

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Speaker 1: have to listen to me talk for a while. Damn

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Speaker 1: the way you drone off. I know. I'm sorry, It's

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Speaker 1: just like want want, walt walt wa. So. May three

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Speaker 1: was the last day of this trip and the group

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Speaker 1: was staying at a resort called something that Joe is

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Speaker 1: going to have to pronounce for me. Well, I'm probably

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Speaker 1: gonna mangle it, but I think it's prior to lose.

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Speaker 1: That sounds right. Yeah. There were eight kids that were

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Speaker 1: part of the group, and they spent much of their

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Speaker 1: day at the kids club in this resort. That morning,

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Speaker 1: while the top of seven took a walk, the kids

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Speaker 1: played in the kids club, and then after lunch, the

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Speaker 1: families headed to the pool, where the very last known

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Speaker 1: picture of Madeleine was taken. After the pool, the kids

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Speaker 1: went back to the kids club until about six pm.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing that was probably check out, come time, come

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Speaker 1: get your kids. You know, I don't have that sense.

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Speaker 1: I have the sense that kids could stay as long

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Speaker 1: as they wanted, just because of some stuff that happens

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Speaker 1: a little bit later in But it's it resorts like that,

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Speaker 1: typically you could drop your kids off if you're going

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Speaker 1: to have dinner, say, which would be like a safe

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Speaker 1: alternative to some of the things that happened in this story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I kind of kind of wonder why they didn't use

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Speaker 1: the little daycare center. Yeah, that's my sense. I could

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Speaker 1: be wrong. I know that when I worked on the

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Speaker 1: cruise ship we had that, and I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of resorts offer that sort of thing. It would make

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Speaker 1: sense kind of almost seven care for kids, but almost

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Speaker 1: if you want to party in that a way though, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you may as well drop your kids off. Anyways. Jerry,

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Speaker 1: Gary Jerry. Jerry had a tennis lesson at six, So

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Speaker 1: Kate picked up the kids and hung out with them

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Speaker 1: for a little while and you know, fed them and

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Speaker 1: bathe them and all that stuff. And then at about

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Speaker 1: seven she put she and Jerry both Gary Jerry Jerry.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is like Parks and wreck up

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Speaker 1: and here I'm so sorry Jerry name sorry Jerry, and Kate.

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Speaker 1: The mom put their three kids to bed in the

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Speaker 1: room that the kids were sleeping in. It wasn't the

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Speaker 1: room they were all sleeping in. It was the parents

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Speaker 1: had the one room, and then there was an apartment.

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Speaker 1: It was an apartment, yeah, and the kids had one room.

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Speaker 1: They were all sharing the two little ones were in

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Speaker 1: a crib set up next to a single bed that

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Speaker 1: Madeline was staying in. Madeleine was wearing pink or pj's

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Speaker 1: and cuddling with her pink blanket and pink cuddle cat.

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Speaker 1: She liked pink what girl. By the way, Okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: I spent so long since I've read Winnie the Pooh,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've forgotten about you are. How we're that's

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Speaker 1: a different mystery, been a long time, Yeah, because nothing

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Speaker 1: ever bad happens to upper middle class white folks that

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Speaker 1: are out of resort. The top of seven and the

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Speaker 1: Meccans followed their typical evening routine, which was leaving their

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Speaker 1: kids in an unlocked room and having dinner. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: top Us, which is where seven comes from. Retrospect, it

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Speaker 1: does seem like about maybe not a great idea. They

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Speaker 1: were about a hundred and sixty feet as the crow

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Speaker 1: flies away from the apartment the Meccans were staying in

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Speaker 1: is five A, which apparently, according to Kate, was about

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Speaker 1: a thirty or forty five second walk. I'm having a

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Speaker 1: really hard time figuring out how this place was set up.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's one of the things that's surprised at

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Speaker 1: is that for all the stuff that's been written on

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Speaker 1: the internet about this, nobody, nobody anywhere has a layout

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Speaker 1: of the resort. Yeah, I've never I did a lot

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Speaker 1: of looking for that, and I couldn't find a one.

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Speaker 1: I've got a guess that it's in. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those places where the restaurants and everything are centrally located

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Speaker 1: and all the apartments are splayed around them in kind

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Speaker 1: of an arc. Yeah, although everybody relatively straight access the description.

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Speaker 1: The description that I heard was that they were on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the pool, So I don't totally

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Speaker 1: know how this whole thing was set up. But they

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Speaker 1: had reserved this specific table that was close to their

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Speaker 1: rooms for PM for the entire time that they were

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Speaker 1: on holiday. And the way that Kate reserved this table

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Speaker 1: again because nothing bad ever happens to up her white

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Speaker 1: middle people, was she wrote a note and just left

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Speaker 1: it on the front desk where like anybody could have

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Speaker 1: seen it. And this is this is indicative of a

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Speaker 1: bunch of things that seem innocuous to anybody who's doing

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Speaker 1: them until something like this happened that fair and you

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Speaker 1: start all of these silly little things you think nothing

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Speaker 1: of start cross. He's wrote a little red flags that

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Speaker 1: you know you kind of you can look back on

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Speaker 1: and say, well, I was dumb. Why would you do

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Speaker 1: that that you don't even think about in the moment.

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Speaker 1: But she said in the note, she said, what I

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Speaker 1: want this table so I can watch my kids in

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Speaker 1: apartment five Sea. She said, we're part of a group

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Speaker 1: that are all in this block of apartments. We've got

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Speaker 1: kids with us that will be in bed. Uh, so

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Speaker 1: we want to reserve this table that's the closest one

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Speaker 1: for eight thirty every night for the time that we're here.

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Speaker 1: And I remember something about she had written some of this,

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Speaker 1: or at least the request. I want to say it

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Speaker 1: was in a guest book. Is this what? Yeah? So

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just a posed it note. It was in

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Speaker 1: the book that anybody walking by could have read, okay,

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Speaker 1: just making sure yea. So probably another guest you signed

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Speaker 1: in right after them. Always possible. As mentioned, they did

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Speaker 1: this every night. This was what they did every night.

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Speaker 1: So it was a strong pattern, and had somebody been

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Speaker 1: planning anything nefarious, it would have been a fairly easy

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Speaker 1: thing to plan because they knew exactly what was going

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Speaker 1: to happen at eight thirty every night. Oh and also

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Speaker 1: as a fun side note, because the patio was closest

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Speaker 1: to the restaurant. They yeah, they left the patio door

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Speaker 1: unlocked because it only locked from the inside. They left,

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Speaker 1: they left it closed, but they left it unlocked instead of,

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Speaker 1: you know, adding the extra whatever ten seconds to walk

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Speaker 1: around to the front and use your key and at

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Speaker 1: least kind of safely have your kids in a locked

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Speaker 1: apartment seems like a better idea. It seems like a

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Speaker 1: better idea. Again, It's one of those little red flags,

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Speaker 1: right that you would think I would think, as a

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Speaker 1: not parent who doesn't have to deal with kids all

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Speaker 1: the time, I would think I would absolutely lock them

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Speaker 1: in that apartment too. But I can see this. I

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Speaker 1: can see my parents doing something like this in the

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Speaker 1: late seventies early eighties, when people didn't have bad things

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Speaker 1: happen all the time that they knew about. Not to

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Speaker 1: say that bad things didn't happen, but when everybody is

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Speaker 1: so security conscious, it shocks me. And the only thing

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Speaker 1: that I can think that prompted this is a bit

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Speaker 1: of what you were alluding to, which is they come

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Speaker 1: from a very comfortable, safe place so those simple security

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Speaker 1: steps just don't seem necessary. Well, I mean, it's the

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Speaker 1: only way I can rationalize this. And you're you're in

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Speaker 1: a fancy resort too, you have you know, people will

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Speaker 1: typically expect things to be safer conditions there, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's not. I the sense that I have is

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Speaker 1: that the pattio opens out into a street at least

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Speaker 1: an alleyway. It's not oh so that the patio. I

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Speaker 1: thought the patio doors were visible from the topas restaurant.

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Speaker 1: They weren't. They were, they were. But just because it's visible,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you're staring at it the whole time. No,

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Speaker 1: not at all. But and it's a row of patio doors,

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Speaker 1: so you know, the person that's in the apartment next

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Speaker 1: to you maybe coming and going out of the patio doors,

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Speaker 1: and you don't you can't necessarily tell the difference. I

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Speaker 1: suppose it's dark and all that. Yeah, how many times

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Speaker 1: have you been out at a restaurant on a patio

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Speaker 1: in the evening and had a conversation and dinner with

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Speaker 1: people and never noticed the jillion people that walked by

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Speaker 1: across the street. You're focused in front of you, not

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Speaker 1: really far away, not to say that they're bad parents

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Speaker 1: and they weren't watching. But you can't watch that continually.

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Speaker 1: Would you would think they'd be like kind of keeping

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Speaker 1: an eye on it, though, you would you think that

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Speaker 1: I would think that, wouldn't you. To their credit, the

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Speaker 1: parents did take shifts on checking on the kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: because all of the parents wasn't just Maddie's Madeline's parents.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna call her Maddie. Um, I've seen it a

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Speaker 1: couple of times. It's not always there, but I am

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Speaker 1: going to call her Maddie, just so you SAME's the

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Speaker 1: same thing. I'm not adding a new character. Don't worry.

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Speaker 1: Maddie's parents weren't the only ones who left a kid unattended.

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Speaker 1: As I said, They were eight kids in total, and

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Speaker 1: they were all left in their rooms and I think

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Speaker 1: they all, as far as I can understand, had unlocked

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Speaker 1: patio doors and they were all doing this. They were

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Speaker 1: all kind of doing this. Well, there's five other children

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Speaker 1: besides the McCanns, because they had the twins and then

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Speaker 1: mat Yeah, Jerry carried out the first check at nine

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Speaker 1: oh five pm, which was, you know, about a half

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Speaker 1: hour after they left him alone. He said that he

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Speaker 1: thought that he had left the door to the kid's

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Speaker 1: room only slightly open, at maybe a five or ten

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Speaker 1: degrees openness angle. Yeah, but when he checked on them,

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Speaker 1: the door was wide open. He pulled it back to

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Speaker 1: be almost entirely shut after, you know, glancing in on them,

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Speaker 1: and then returned to dinner. And then at nine fifteen,

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Speaker 1: another one of the top of seven, Jane Tanner, went

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Speaker 1: to check on her kids. She said that she passed

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Speaker 1: Jerry on the way back to check on her kids,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I said, it was that alleyway street

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Speaker 1: way they would have both had to have walked on

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Speaker 1: to get to their apartments. And he said that he

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Speaker 1: had stopped to chat with another vacationer on his way back.

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Speaker 1: And the oddity here is that neither Jerry nor the

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Speaker 1: other man saw Jane Tanner. And the street was apparently

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Speaker 1: pretty narrow. It sounds more like it's an alley than

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Speaker 1: a street to me. Yeah, that's kind of my sense.

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Speaker 1: It's like an alley way. It's not. Yeah, it's an

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Speaker 1: alleyway basically, but it's a fair you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a street that people take to walk and things like that.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a weird dead end alleyway, right, it's

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Speaker 1: not full of dumpsters and rats and all of that.

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Speaker 1: It's just more of a walkway than it is at anyway.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's a little odd that they would have

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Speaker 1: not seen her, and so yeah, it's unlikely that she

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Speaker 1: could have just passed them without them noticing or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. Anyways, Tanner said that she saw a man

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Speaker 1: with the child and his arms crossed the street just

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Speaker 1: ahead of her. Will get more on that later, But

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Speaker 1: she checked in with her kids and then returned to

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Speaker 1: dinner at Kate had intended to check on her kids,

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Speaker 1: but one of the other or one of the top

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Speaker 1: of seven, not other top of seven, said that he

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Speaker 1: was going to go check on his kids, so he'd

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Speaker 1: look on in on there's two because hey, the door's unlocked,

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Speaker 1: so he can just peek in, no problem. It's important

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Speaker 1: to note that these these checks weren't necessarily to make

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Speaker 1: sure that they were the kind of checks you do

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Speaker 1: when you've got kids who maybe wake up in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night and start playing when they're not

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Speaker 1: supposed to, not the kind of checks that you do

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Speaker 1: when you've left your apartment un locked in a weird

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Speaker 1: place and you're paranoid about your kids getting stolen. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and I I've I got to say initially, that's what

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Speaker 1: I took from when Jerry said, well, I swear I

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Speaker 1: shut that door and then it was open. That was

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Speaker 1: my initial reaction, is that Madeline must have gotten up

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Speaker 1: to use the bathroom. Yeah, I mean, not to not

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Speaker 1: to pull us off track, but no, know, I mean

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's a very easy thing, and we

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Speaker 1: should definitely keep that in mind. That you've got a

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Speaker 1: kid who's probably pretty potty trained at that point, you know,

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Speaker 1: may wake up in the middle of the night, have

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Speaker 1: to go to the bathrooms and not going to close

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Speaker 1: the door all the way, you know, all of that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff. It's unlikely that she would have woken

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Speaker 1: up half an hour after just half an hour after

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Speaker 1: they had put her down, but I guess she had

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Speaker 1: been asleep for about an hour and a half at

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Speaker 1: that point, so she may have. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: we do need to keep that in absolutely. But as

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Speaker 1: I said this, it's important to note that this is

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Speaker 1: the kind of check you do to make sure your

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Speaker 1: kid isn't like up and playing. Matthew Oldfield was the

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Speaker 1: one who he was one of the top of seven.

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Speaker 1: He was the one who did this check of Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he said that he didn't hear any noises coming

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Speaker 1: from the room, but the door was once again wide open,

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Speaker 1: so he pulled it shut without looking in the room, right,

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Speaker 1: because he didn't hear a kid playing or you know,

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Speaker 1: making noises or anything in distress. So he just thought

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Speaker 1: another find they're sleeping. I'm not going to bother to him.

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Speaker 1: Actually look, well, Jerry, Jerry went earlier and pulled the

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Speaker 1: door shut. Did he actually look to see if he

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Speaker 1: said that he saw the kids. Yeah, he said that

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Speaker 1: he looked in that Maddie was in her bed at

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Speaker 1: that time, but that's what he said. Yeah, in fairness.

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Speaker 1: At about ten, Kate did actually do another check. She

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Speaker 1: entered through the patio doors and noticed that the door

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Speaker 1: to the kid's room was once again wide open, and

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Speaker 1: when she attempted to close it, uh, it slams shot

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Speaker 1: on her, like there was a draft in the room.

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Speaker 1: Maybe A note again to mention that it seems unlikely

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Speaker 1: had the door not slammed, Kate would have actually looked

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Speaker 1: in the room. Look in the room. Well, I don't

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Speaker 1: think she was planning on it. I think it was

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Speaker 1: kind of like when Jerry did his, or I guess

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Speaker 1: it was when Matthew did his. She just went to

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Speaker 1: close the door. She didn't seem to actually look in

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Speaker 1: the room. That's kind of an explicable Okay, why why

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Speaker 1: in the hell are you going to look at in

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Speaker 1: your apartment at your kids? If all you're doing is

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Speaker 1: to go in and stand and go and listen here anything,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you just peek in see if they're there, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then wander back, Because isn't that why you're going

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Speaker 1: to check on them? You want to make sure they're

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Speaker 1: not getting into trouble, not to make sure that they're there.

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Speaker 1: Because I don't kids dnapped, I haven't ever dealt with

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Speaker 1: young children, But to me, it would seem logical. If

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go make sure they're up, I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to look in and make sure that somebody's not

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Speaker 1: just sitting there fidgeting and is actually asleep. So yes,

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Speaker 1: I agree. Every time I've ever taken care of kids

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Speaker 1: overnight or otherwise, if they're supposed to be sleeping, I

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Speaker 1: will actually put eyes on them. Yeah, but also doors

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Speaker 1: slamming on their own like that um doesn't that race

335
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,119
Speaker 1: suspicions right there? Well, but that's why, right, That's what

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00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm saying is that I'm just making the note that

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Speaker 1: she saw the doors open and she thought, oh, I

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Speaker 1: will close that door, and she went to close it

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Speaker 1: and it slammed, so she opened it up and realized

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Speaker 1: that Maddie wasn't there anymore. Ok. Yeah, after it slammed

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Speaker 1: shut on her. I was just mentioning that it seems

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Speaker 1: that her intention was simply to close the door and

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Speaker 1: had not slammed. I don't know that she would have

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Speaker 1: opened it not to you know, be liabel ng anybody,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't seem like she would have. No It

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00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,119
Speaker 1: seems like her intention was to make sure there was

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Speaker 1: no noise and then get back to dinner. On the

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00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 1: bed was Maddie's cuddle cat and blanket, but not not

349
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Speaker 1: Maddie and Kate ran back to the restaurants screaming and

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Speaker 1: the window was open. Correct, the window was open. I

351
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 1: don't know if it was a security shutter, but it

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00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 1: was a shutter. The pictures I've seen, because I've seen

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Speaker 1: pictures of the shutters, they look like they're just shutters.

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Speaker 1: They don't look like they're security measure of any kind. Okay,

355
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Speaker 1: So Kate ran back to the restaurants, screaming they've taken her.

356
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Speaker 1: Of note right, she's screaming they've taken her. Whoever they are. Yeah,

357
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Speaker 1: and then at ten ten, Old Field Matthew, the guy

358
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Speaker 1: who did the check right before Maddie was taken or

359
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 1: maybe she was taken, who knows, was sent to reception

360
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 1: to have the resort called the police, and at ten

361
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,639
Speaker 1: thirty the resort activated it's quote missing child search protocol.

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Speaker 1: The staff above of about sixty people looked for Maddie

363
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 1: until about four thirty am, and apparently at first everybody

364
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,879
Speaker 1: kind of thought that Maddie had just woken up and

365
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Speaker 1: wandered off. That's understand A good reason I lock your

366
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 1: kids in the apartment. Yeah, it is understandable. However it

367
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:11,479
Speaker 1: created some problems. Yeah, to National Guard officers showed up

368
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Speaker 1: at eleven ten pm. They searched briefly, but soon decided, oh, hey,

369
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Speaker 1: actually we need the criminal police here. So the criminal

370
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,719
Speaker 1: police were alerted and they arrived at about midnight. This

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Speaker 1: is the National Guard. These guys are Portugal Portuguese National Guards.

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Speaker 1: And then at about two am, two patrol dogs showed up,

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Speaker 1: and then not until eight am did four search and

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Speaker 1: rescue dogs show up. These are the actual sensitive Yes,

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Speaker 1: the patrol dogs, I think are are just kind of

376
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Speaker 1: to smell. I don't have a good sense on what

377
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 1: they're good. They're just canine units. Yeah, But then the

378
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: search and rescue dogs. The search and rescue dogs would

379
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 1: have been meant to smell, but you know, not until

380
00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,400
Speaker 1: eight am. And this is where we encounter the biggest

381
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: problem of this case really is that everyone other than

382
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,679
Speaker 1: the top of seven and the Meccans seemed to have

383
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 1: thought that Maddie just woke up, woke up, and wandered off,

384
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: so the area wasn't treated like a crime scene at all.

385
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 1: In fact, about twenty people accessed the room that Maddie

386
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 1: had been taken from before it was closed off, thus

387
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 1: probably ruining almost all of the evidence that would have existed.

388
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: The room was never actually secured, and though it laid

389
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 1: empty for about a month after the abduction, the resort

390
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 1: rented the room out before forensic evidence was taken. In August,

391
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: this room was rented out before forensic evidence was taken.

392
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 1: Let me let me ask a question that I think

393
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: you might have answered. But how long was it before

394
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: the cops decided this was something other than a wandered

395
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Speaker 1: off kid. I think it was at two a m.

396
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 1: When the dogs arrived, and it took them over a

397
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: month to it there forensic guys in there. Yeah, they

398
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: actually had some fingerprints taken the day after. But you

399
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 1: can see the picture of you should look it up online. Yeah,

400
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: there's stomps. People were trooping through there like oh no,

401
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: the guy who was taking fingerprints wasn't wearing gloves. He

402
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 1: was dusting for prints without gloves on. This is okay.

403
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 1: That wasn't a phrase that was gonna use. It's it's

404
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: a crap show, is what it is. Yeah, oh wait,

405
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 1: oh wait, okay, so it gets better. Sure, the exterior

406
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 1: of the building wasn't cordoned off at all. Right, so

407
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 1: there was a crowd that showed up that was walking

408
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: all over the area that the abductor, if there was

409
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: an abductor, would have taken, like from the window. Yeah,

410
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: so they all stomped all over that. Also, it wasn't

411
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: until ten am that police put up roadblocks. And let's

412
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: be fair, right, if you've taken a child and you're

413
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,239
Speaker 1: about to beat feed out of town. It's not going

414
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: to take a twelve hours. You're gonna do it immediately,

415
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: So putting roadblocks up twelve hours after a kid has

416
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: gone missing not so helpful. Furthermore, it took Interpoll five

417
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 1: days to issue a global missing person's alert. Well that's awesome.

418
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: Five days. You can fly anywhere in the world in

419
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: five days, easily, in a day, in a day, in

420
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,479
Speaker 1: twelve hours, not really in twelve hours, but you know

421
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: that gives you ample time to cover your tracks, and

422
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: cover your tracks and cover your tracks. You know. You

423
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: get on a plane, you get on another plane, you

424
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: take a car or whatever. We're as simple as you

425
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: drive out of town, you drive to another town, you

426
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: hang out for a day, you go to another town.

427
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 1: When the time they come through this, this trail is

428
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: ice cold. Yeah, I doubt that this guy actually got

429
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 1: on a plane with his kids. I suspect I suspect

430
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: you probably lived in Portugal and just drove on home

431
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: where he had a basement, you know, with that with

432
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 1: chains and the walls and all kinds of As you

433
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 1: can imagine, the media crabbed onto this one pretty quick, obviously,

434
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: and as you you kind of want that to happen

435
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 1: with missing person's reports like this, because the more that

436
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: that missing child's faces out there in the world, the

437
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 1: more likely it is that somebody's going to see you know,

438
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: if the kid is out in the world, the more

439
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: likely it is that somebody's going to see that kid

440
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: and think, oh, hey, I know I've seen that kid before.

441
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: I'll call the police and a report that I saw

442
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 1: that kid. It's the same reason that you send out

443
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: amber alerts in America. It's a good thing, right you.

444
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 1: You know, we get amber alerts sometimes for you know,

445
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: abducted or missing children three states away, because who knows

446
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: they might be there, who knows that might have made

447
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 1: it here. Super effective. They're really they're highly annoying because yeah,

448
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: it's from several states away, or you know, they say

449
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: it was a white Subaru, and every guy in a

450
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: white Subaru is getting pulled over by the cops. So

451
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: they're angering a lot of people, but they have good results.

452
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: I hate people that drive white super so I think

453
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: that's a good well, no, I mean I think that

454
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,479
Speaker 1: that Steve brings up a good point is that because

455
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: the media did grab onto this so quickly, there were

456
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: a lot of sightings reported. You can look at pictures

457
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: of Maddie and with the one exception of a very

458
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: outstanding feature, she kind of just looks like a very

459
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: cute little white girl. Well there is one remarkable thing. Yeah,

460
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: and I think that we'll talk about that in a

461
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: second instead of talking about it now. Actually, no, let's

462
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: talk about it now. This is the posters that circulated

463
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: in Portugal. I was hoping to find a good picture

464
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: of to use as the photo for this mystery, but

465
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: there aren't any really good pictures of it. But the

466
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: slogan was luck because Maddie in her right I right eye,

467
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: Steve's making a little thinking face and the right eye

468
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: has a tear in her iris that makes it look

469
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: like she just has it's well, yeah, it's a discoloration.

470
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: It looks like a black stripe through her eye iris,

471
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: not know full eye, but through her iris, and that's

472
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: very distinctive. That's not something you can hide. But that's

473
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: not something that you can fake. Oh no, not at all.

474
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: It's not something that a witness is going to really

475
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: notice from one of a couple of feet away. That's true.

476
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: But I think that was the that was the campaign

477
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: was look and it actually the ohs were looked like

478
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: her eyes because it you know, if she was out

479
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: in public, all you have to do is look on

480
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: her eyes and you see that and you're like, oh, hey,

481
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: I know what that kid is. So that's that's fair.

482
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: But it is true that, you know, as long as

483
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: you keep even her eyes hidden or you know whatever,

484
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to conceal. It's not like, you know,

485
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 1: half of her body was a birthmark or something. She

486
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: was the tattooed three year old. How it didn't happen.

487
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: So here's another thing, aside from the weird handling of

488
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: the crime scene. In Portugal, they have anything that's a

489
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: criminal investigation is constrained but by what's known as a

490
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: secrecy clause, which means that there are no official updates

491
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: or press conferences or suspects or witness names or anything,

492
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: which is a problem. One journalist was quoted as saying

493
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: it created a leak system instead of a watertight system,

494
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: which I think is probably true. Yeah, it's if the

495
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: if the media is scrambling for any details, they're going

496
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: to offer money to get those details, and of course

497
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: a cop who's got you know, an okay wage, we'll

498
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: just make a couple of bucks on the side. Here's

499
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: a detail for sure. Maybe that's uh, maybe that's why.

500
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe the police actually like supported the passage of

501
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: this thing just so you can make a little money made.

502
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: The whole thing is a freaking media circus, though, was

503
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: the problem? Well so? And actually it's interesting to me

504
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: the mccans, you may or may not know. If you

505
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: know the story, you know the McCanns were like suspects.

506
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: They still are suspects in a lot of people's minds.

507
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: They've officially been cleared, but again we're not there yet.

508
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: But one of the biggest weirdest reasons to me that

509
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: the Portuguese police deemed the mccans to be suspects is

510
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: because they refused to honor this silence code and did

511
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: talk to the media. And because of that, the Portuguese

512
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: police said, oh, well, clearly your suspects, because you're trying

513
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: to hide something. They accused them of turning the investigation

514
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 1: into what Steve said, a media circus, And that's just

515
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: a different cultural approach to the whole situation, is what

516
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: it is. It's a different cultural approach. But it's also

517
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: you know, of the things that the mccans did. This

518
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: is one of the ones I understand the most because

519
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: if your kid goes missing, you want her face freaking

520
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: everywhere everywhere, and how do you do that the media?

521
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: And turns out, actually, this media circus was so large

522
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: that photos of Maddie were literally the most reproduced image

523
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: of the decade. That is not a lie, that is

524
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: an actual statistic. Photos of Madeline mccan were the most

525
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: reproduced image of the decade was number two. I don't know,

526
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: I've seen something to do with like nine eleven or something.

527
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, something we have to having to

528
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: do with nudity celebrities. But now in July of two

529
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: thousand seven, and as a side note, this case moves

530
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: so slow. Yeah, it's still, it's still they're still investigating

531
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: this May in May of two thousand seven, early May

532
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 1: May third, two thousand seven is when she disappeared. So

533
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: in July of two thousand and seven, somebody thought, oh, hey,

534
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: you know what we should do is get some sniffer

535
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: dogs from Britain. Let's bring them over. Maybe they'll be

536
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: able to find something, which is a good idea. Should

537
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: have happened earlier. I don't know, that sniffer dogs are

538
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: so good that they could do anything a few months later,

539
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: but sure, yeah, why not. It's like, I mean, some many,

540
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 1: some of the other cents and people have trampled over

541
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: the crimes and everything else, so possibly do anything. One

542
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: of them, named Kila, was a train was to alert

543
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: to traces of human blood, and the other one, Eddie,

544
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: was what's called an enhanced victim recovery dog, which basically

545
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: alerts to human cadavers. And it should be noted they

546
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: can't alert to specific cadavers and specific blood, just the

547
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: presence of human blood or decaying human bodies. The dogs

548
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: the dogs, and there are some dog you know, bloodhounds

549
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: can trace the scent of a human being living, you know,

550
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: within a couple hours and things like that. These are

551
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: not that, they're they're identification dogs. They can alert to

552
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: the presence of blood and ostensibly at that point somebody

553
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: can take a sample of that area and test it

554
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: and then find what they can find from that, hopefully.

555
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: The dogs were taken to two beaches that were close

556
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: to the resort, the house of one of the suspects

557
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: and many of the apartments in the resort. The only

558
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: place that the dogs gave alerts was in the McCanns

559
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: apartment five A. Both dogs gave alerts. Soum if the

560
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: cadaver dog, say, let's say, if there had been a

561
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: dead body and then an apartment, then then it had

562
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: been gone for two or three months. It's my understanding

563
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: that the dog would have been able to identify that. Yeah,

564
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: because it's a it's a search. He's a victim recovery dog,

565
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: so he ostensibly, I get, I don't know, I keep

566
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: saying a sensibly, I'm sorry, I'm given to understand that,

567
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: and I could be wrong, but I think that he

568
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: would have been able to smell any presence of cadaver.

569
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: But the thing, the thing that's weird about that is

570
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: that you know, I don't want to stop all over

571
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: your story. You know, some people are like the like

572
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: for example, the Portuguese police, for example, accused of mechands

573
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: of sedating metal and an accidentally overdosing her and killing her.

574
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: Another theory that they have a sci died at accidentally

575
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: in an accident, tried to cover that up. Think about

576
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: it is and of course when you die, you're a

577
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: cadaver right away, but you don't start smelling like a

578
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: cadaver for quite a while. It takes a while for

579
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: you to become actually smell like a cadaver, which is

580
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: why this is a little problem with this the dog.

581
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I I just can't figure out why this

582
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: dog would have gone on high alert. I agree in

583
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: this situation. I agree. I think the thought of bringing

584
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: him along was that, you know, they took them to

585
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: the beaches and things like that and thought, looking, yeah, yeah,

586
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: the I don't think the intention was for him to

587
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: alert in the apartment, but he did, which is a

588
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: little weird. You don't necessarily want there to be a

589
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 1: cadaver dog saying, hey, there's the smell of a cadaver

590
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: in your apartment behind the sofa, a dead rat in

591
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: the wall. Maybe it's human cadavers only, yeah, stopping all

592
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: over your theory now. Yeah. Anyways, the dogs did both

593
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: alert behind the sofa. That is an interesting point. Again,

594
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means, but it means something

595
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: to some people. In August, again, this thing moves real slow.

596
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: It seems like time would be of the since to

597
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: find a missing little girl, but find whatever. In August,

598
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: the police took several items from the mccans, both from

599
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: when Maddie had been alive and after she disappeared, clothes,

600
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: the cuddle cat, um Kate had borrowed a bible from

601
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: one of her friends after the disappearance. Things like that,

602
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: Eddie and Kilo were put in a room with these items,

603
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: and at least one of the dogs, possibly both of

604
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: them alerted to all of the items. It's not published

605
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: which one did. It's possible both of them did. It's interesting, right,

606
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: because it's items from pre disappearance and post disappearance. The

607
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: McCanns lawyers argue, I think, maybe vadly, although also maybe

608
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: not validly, that because the mccans were both physicians, they

609
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: would have encountered dead bodies and blood in their line

610
00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: of work and therefore could have transferred it to those items. Yeah,

611
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: that's a very valid point. I think it's a valid point,

612
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: though I don't know why. Necessarily, when you encounter blood

613
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: in your workplace, you don't wash it off. Instead, you

614
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: take it and put it, you know, on your kid's

615
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: cuddle cat, you know, or a kid, Yeah, sure, a

616
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: kid like bleeds on it or something. I think that

617
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: it's fair. I wish I knew which one alerted. Also,

618
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: I don't really want to go see a position who's

619
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: like dealing with dead bodies all the time. Well, and

620
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: the thing about it is when you're dealing with the

621
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: dead body, you put on gloves and all kinds of stuff. Yeah,

622
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going to go touch a bible or

623
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: like your disappeared kids blanket. And also the trac or

624
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: two of blood is not a big People cut themselves

625
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: all the time. I mean, so the existence of blood

626
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: is not necessarily sinister, which is why I wish I

627
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: knew which dogg alert. Yeah, just because if it's a

628
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: cadaver dog, that that makes it even stranger. Yeah, because

629
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: I agree the dog that's gonna smell blood. Yeah, we

630
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: can see very mundane reasons. But the cadaver dog being

631
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: a dog, or if you have to occasionally go to

632
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: the morgue, doesn't mean that you're covered in dead people

633
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 1: staying and then roll around all of your possessions should

634
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: carrying that. Well, let's continue because it gets a little

635
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: more interesting. I do have more information about some other stuff.

636
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 1: Eddie and Kila were then taken to uh underground parking

637
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: garage that had the McCanns car and another one of

638
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: the suspects car, and then a lot of cars that weren't,

639
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: you know, kind of control cars. Did the suspect car

640
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: Did they police actually put that there? Yes, it wasn't

641
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: just randomly park No, no no, no, they did like a

642
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: lineup of cars basically for the dogs. And the Eddie,

643
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: the cadaver dog alerted outside of the McCanns car and

644
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: into the trunk of their car, and I didn't even

645
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: I couldn't even find if the mccans had driven to

646
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: their holiday or not. But the fact that a human

647
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: cadaver dog would be alerting to anything around a car

648
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: is suspicious and weird. There are I do want to

649
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: just go ahead and say, I have not seen these videos.

650
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: I'm just taking on faith that this stuff happened. And

651
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: there are some reports from some skeptics that say that

652
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: the handlers can be seen directing the dogs to alert

653
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: in these areas, but it's not widespread. It's those are

654
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: not widespread beliefs, but there are some. I just I

655
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: want to make sure that that makes it into this episode,

656
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: that there's some speculation that the handlers are saying, oh,

657
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: this is the McCann's car. Although I don't think that

658
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: the handlers knew whose car was who's. It seems like

659
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: it would be poor police work if you were going

660
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: to do a lineup of cars and say, handlers, just

661
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: so you know, these are the cars where the suspect car.

662
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: So these folks are British, so they would have had

663
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: a car with a British license plate on it. Was

664
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: the suspect most likely. Don't you think they flew there

665
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: and rented a car, not necessarily because it's it's actually

666
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: I know, Spain is not that far away, and they

667
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: could have can like a ferry. Yeah, it probably would

668
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: be cheaper to rent a car than than take your

669
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: car over on a ferry. Really, but let's just say,

670
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: let's just say they took their car. They have a

671
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: car that had has a British license plate. Now this

672
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: is again saying it's their personal car. Suspect was it

673
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: a local? Yeah, he was, so he would have had

674
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: a car with local license on it. Yeah. And again

675
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't I couldn't find out where

676
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: this lineup was done because it was the British police

677
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: that did the lineup. But I don't know if it

678
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: was done in Portugal or where this is. Again, this

679
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: is one of those frustrations where I wish there was

680
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: more information but I can't find it. I'm sure than

681
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: the original police reports, but I can't requisition those because

682
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: this is still an open case. It's still secret. But

683
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: it sounds like that, I mean, Eddie and Kia that

684
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 1: were flowing to Portugal for this, for their investigations. Probably, yeah,

685
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: so I don't but I don't know if it was

686
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: a rental car or their car. But again I would

687
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: say that a cadaver dog alerting outside of your car

688
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: is not a great thing. That would be bad, even

689
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: if it's just a rental Right, well, yeah, if it's

690
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: a rental then probably the previous renter probably murdered somebody

691
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: and you know, stuffed the body in the trunk because

692
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: to do with you. Okay, fine, so whatever. Fine. In August,

693
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: The Times reported that forensic evidence said that the blood

694
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: found in the bedroom that Maddie had disappeared from was

695
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: that of a man. I don't think we had mentioned

696
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: that there had been blood found there. Oh yeah, sorry,

697
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: there was blood found there. It was a man. It

698
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: was a man's It was Kiley had or Kila had

699
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: alerted to that blood as well, and that was a

700
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: man's blood. Obviously there was a fight. There was a struggle.

701
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: It was a struggle. Yeah, she fought tooth and nail. Yeah,

702
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: she grabbed your k bar knife and slash. But yeah

703
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: there yeah. Um, there was some DNA testing done, but

704
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: I'm not really going to get into it because I'm

705
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: I've deemed it very unreliable. If you really you should

706
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: look at it if you want. Um, they did a

707
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: really controversial DNA test that's highly highlight sensitive, and the

708
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: forensic scientists that was found in the car of the

709
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: trunk of the car. Yeah, and the forensic scientists that

710
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: did the testing said it was super on conclusive, and

711
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: the media said it was it was Maddie's DNA. So

712
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna go there because I trust those

713
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: scientists way more than I trust the media. But there's

714
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: nothing unusual about our DNA being in the trunk anyway,

715
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: because I mean, when when we were all kids, if

716
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: we were bad, then we were in a car trips

717
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: and parents at all. Just story. Don't feel like I

718
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,479
Speaker 1: need to know about your childhood show. Okay, that didn't

719
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: have that actual not at all. Holy crap. Okay, can

720
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: we talk about suspects or theories or whatever. It's suspects

721
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: this time, not theories. Can we talk about that? We

722
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,959
Speaker 1: just go ahead, cool, We're not going to talk about

723
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: all of them. In two thousand thirteen, the Metropolitan Police

724
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: of London said that they had thirty eight persons of

725
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 1: intra us So we are obviously not going to talk

726
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: about all of them. Nope, not going to happen. The

727
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: first suspect or theory or something that we're going to

728
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: talk about is the Tanner sighting. You guys, remember Jane Tanner.

729
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: Don't want to make that face that made Jane Tanner. Yeah,

730
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: she was one of the top of seven. She was

731
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: the one who said that she totally saw Jerry talking

732
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: to that dude, but neither of them, lady totally reliable one.

733
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: But besides Jerry, she saw a man. Yeah, she said

734
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: she saw a man carrying a child ahead of her

735
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: when she was heading to check on her own kids.

736
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: She said that the man was white, dark haired, about

737
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,240
Speaker 1: five ft seven and of Southern European or Mediterranean appearance,

738
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: forty years old, wearing gold or baige trousers and a

739
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: dark jacket, but she didn't see his face so I

740
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: don't know how she knew all those things. Yeah, we've

741
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: talked about how reliable memory is before in cases like this,

742
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: and it was dark. It's completely unreliable. Yeah, it was dark.

743
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: But okay, so she uh, he apparently did not look

744
00:39:58,520 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 1: like a tourist. He looked like he was a little

745
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 1: and she claimed that he was carrying a barefooted child

746
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: who was wearing light colored PJS with a floral print

747
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: print and ruffle cuffs. The description does match the PJS

748
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: that Mattie was wearing at the time, that's fair. The

749
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: police said that that sighting was actually of another British

750
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: tourist who was picking his kid up from the kids

751
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: club and carrying her home. She had been sleeping and

752
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: in fact, because like we talked about earlier, you could

753
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: leave them. Yeah, got it. And they did the responsible

754
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: thing when they went to dinner and they sent their

755
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: kid to the kids club and had them sleep there

756
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: while they were waiting for them to be done with dinner.

757
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 1: But they actually did a reproduction of this scene. Eventually

758
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: they found the man and did a photo shoot with

759
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 1: him in the clothes that he was wearing that night,

760
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: carrying his daughter in the PJ she was wearing, and

761
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: it's it looks exactly like that. It looks exactly like that,

762
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: So we basically just nipped that one right in the butt. Yeah.

763
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: The man actually later sued for liabel against Jane Tanner

764
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: and the media. It's generally accepted this is a really

765
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: bad theory. How do you do in his libelcity against

766
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: Jane Tanner? He did pretty good. He won. He won

767
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: against all of them. She that's fair. She didn't, but

768
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: I think he wants anyways. The even more important thing

769
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 1: about this is that most people say that she didn't

770
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: actually even report this until November. Um. There are some

771
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: other reports that say that she did actually report this immediately,

772
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: but the police didn't really reveal the information until late May,

773
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: and I couldn't figure out which one was true. The

774
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: more widely spread one is that she didn't reveal this

775
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 1: until in November. But again I don't know. I don't

776
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: have access to the police reports. I also don't speak Portuguese,

777
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't be able to read them even if

778
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,479
Speaker 1: I did have access to them. Google Translate. It's really

779
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: bad with Portuguese. It's actually true. I used to have

780
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: a friend who spoke Portuguese, and I couldn't ever actually

781
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: transplating stuff anyways. Uh. The only reason that I thought

782
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: this was interesting, or anybody thought this is interesting initially

783
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 1: was because they thought that maybe it gave a time

784
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: frame for when Maddie went missing, because we don't really

785
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: know exactly when. No, she was no longer in the end.

786
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: What's accepted now is that she was. She was taken,

787
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: just like moments before Kate discovered that she was taken.

788
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about this more in a second. Actually

789
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: we're about to talk about it, but I just wanted

790
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: to also mention because Jane said that she saw the

791
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: man at but I don't think I don't think that

792
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: was a good time frame. We're gonna talk about the

793
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: Smith sightings now because there was another report of a

794
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: man carrying a child, and this time it was by

795
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: people who are not part of the Top of seven,

796
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: nor were they even staying at the resort. As far

797
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: as I can tell, they were on vacation from Ireland.

798
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: Their names were Martin and Mary Smith. Just talk about yeah,

799
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: and apparently Portugal like super pop Miller with people from

800
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 1: the British Isles in the UK and oh my gosh,

801
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: I feel like I just like I'm going to get

802
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: in so much trouble because I don't think Ireland is

803
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: part of the UK or the British Isles. It's it's

804
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: part of the isles. Gotten really offensive, I'm sorry. Spain

805
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: are indeed huge destinations for the British because it's close,

806
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: it's cheap, and it's not wet and cold, which is

807
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: what the UK is. That area is chucked full of tourists.

808
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: Sure it is. And by the way, I believe Ireland

809
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: is part of the UK, the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland

810
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: is Northern Ireland, and anyways, it doesn't matter. Yeah, no, no.

811
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: Martin and Mary reported seeing a man at about ten

812
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: pm carrying a child towards the beach. It was an

813
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: odd time to be doing that, but okay, fine whatever.

814
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: They thought that the girl was probably three or four

815
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: years old. She was wearing light colored PJS and had

816
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: blonde hair and pale skin. The man, they said, was

817
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: probably in his mid thirties. He was about five ft

818
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: seven to five ft nine. He was slim, had short

819
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: brown hair, and was wearing light pants. They said that

820
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: the man looked like he was a local and he

821
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: didn't seem comfortable carrying the child. And I've always thought

822
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: that these sightings could be the same man. But they

823
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: cited this person sited saw they saw this person further

824
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: away than you know, the the initial sighting forty five

825
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: minutes later. He wasn't forty five minutes away, So it

826
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: probably wasn't the same person unless he was just walking circles. Yeah, yeah,

827
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: I've got this kid. I took it from an apartment.

828
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: I just keep walking in circles. I don't see that happening.

829
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: So here's the thing that's interesting to me. And yes,

830
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: I'm setting myself up for my favorite theory in fairness,

831
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: both sightings, but particularly the e FIT images that were created. Um,

832
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: the Smith sighting. Okay, if it's are electronic facial identification techniques,

833
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: they're basically forensic drawings but digital. Oh so instead of

834
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 1: a sketch artist, you've got a digital artist exactly. Yeah,

835
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: they both look or will. That one particularly looks a

836
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 1: lot like Jerry McCann to me. And I think Steve

837
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 1: and I talked about this a little bit before we

838
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: started recording, and I think what he has to say

839
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: is fair. But I also want to mention that The

840
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: chain of evidence is pretty good on this because Mary

841
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: and Martin, as far as I can tell, hadn't seen

842
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: Jerry prior to creating this e fits sketch. And also

843
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 1: I don't think that they knew that Maddie was missing

844
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: before they reported this. When did they make this the

845
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: sketch the sketch, It was like within a couple of hours.

846
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: I think. I don't know for sure, but it's just

847
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: that's what I'm giving to understand is that they hadn't

848
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: seen Jerry. Okay. Well, and and this is what I

849
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: you and I were talking about earlier, is Jerry is

850
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: not a super unique looking individual. He's got a very

851
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: a very common set of facial traits. And the guy

852
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: that's in this e fit matches the appearance of about

853
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 1: a half dozen people at my office, but also matches

854
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: Jerry somewhat somewhat. And that's that's the perfect point. Joe

855
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: just hit it on the head some what. Ye, It's

856
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: it's not as if it's a dead ringer. Well, and

857
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: I understand that, fairness, that could be a dead ringer

858
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, you know what, absolutely could,

859
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: but it also could be a dead ringer for him. Okay,

860
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's yeah, I just I just

861
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 1: want to put that out absolutely. Yeah, it could be

862
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: a lot of people, but it could be him. Yeah,

863
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: it could be Yeah, definitely. But there there's a lot

864
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: of differences when you look at it too. Yeah. In

865
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,959
Speaker 1: the job line, the eyeb house, they're they're way different. Yeah,

866
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: that's true. Hairline is a bit different. Yeah, I mean again,

867
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 1: you know, it's dark. Yeah, I guess it's interesting, you know,

868
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 1: And Jerry was at the restaurant. Almost everyone who placed

869
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: him there, however, was part of the top of seven,

870
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: and servers wouldn't have really noticed. I don't think that

871
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,879
Speaker 1: servers really noticed when somebody is away from the table

872
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: for a long period time. You know, had he been

873
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: going getting up and checking on the kids, things like that,

874
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: he could have been gone for a half an hour

875
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: before anybody would have really noticed. I don't think that

876
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: that's something that's tracked. But yeah, the top is seven.

877
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm assuming those people weren't covering up for him. If

878
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: he disappeared long enough to go murder Madeline and disposed

879
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: of the body and everything like that, it would think

880
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: that people who have noticed that he's been gone for

881
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: an hour or two. Yeah. Absolutely, But if you were

882
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: going to, like, if you're gonna, oh my gosh, we're

883
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: gonna get into the like stuff Steve doesn't like. But

884
00:47:54,840 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: if you I see it, if she died earlier and

885
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: they placed her in her bed so that if anybody

886
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: else were to check on her, looked like she was sleeping,

887
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: and he were just going to dispose of the body quickly,

888
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: I mean, he would probably have time to do that.

889
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: He wouldn't have time to, you know, create a whole thing,

890
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: but he probably would have had time, especially because there's

891
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of weird unaccounted for time that would

892
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: have he would have had time to maybe retreat the

893
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: body and put it put in the trunk of the car, yeah,

894
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: or later disposal. But yeah, but um, but we're going

895
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: to talk about the whole theory that the kid that

896
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: Maddie might have died of by an accident. We'll talk

897
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: about that later, Okay. Absolutely. The next theory suspect is

898
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: the person who was first the first suspect in this case,

899
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: Robert Murat Murratt, Robert Robert, I am going to call

900
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: him Robert. He was a local property consultant and he

901
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: was like I said the first suspect. He lived about

902
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty yards from the Meccan's apartment, so

903
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: close by. He was a local and it was the

904
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: his apartment or no, the house he lived and sorry,

905
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 1: he lived with his mother. The house he lived in

906
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: was in the direction that Jane Tanner said that she

907
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 1: saw a man walking just He was an official interpreter

908
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: until his interest was deemed a little too real. Um well,

909
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 1: he offered to translate. He was He was fluent both

910
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: in Portuguese and English, so he offered to translate the

911
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: statements that the suss are, that the top of eight

912
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: and all that everybody had given and guests. The British

913
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: police decided that that was really suspicious. You know, the

914
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 1: British police decided it was really suspicious. They mentioned, hey,

915
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 1: that's a little suspicious, and the Portuguese police said, yeah,

916
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: that's a little suspicious. Huh. So they named named him

917
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: as a suspect. He could have been, um, which, what's

918
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for when he's a good Samaritan.

919
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: He could have been just trying to be a good Samaritan. Well.

920
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: He says that his interest in the case was that

921
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,959
Speaker 1: he had recently lost custody of his three year old daughter,

922
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 1: and so his heart kind of went out to these

923
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: people who had just lost their three old daughter, and

924
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: he wanted to help his best teach, which it turns

925
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: out was the you know, the Portuguese police verified that

926
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,439
Speaker 1: and said, oh my gosh, we're so sorry. The other thing, too,

927
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: is that he might have wanted some attention. Getting involved

928
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: in this case is possibly going to get your face.

929
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: He might have, and I, you know, I think there

930
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 1: are a lot of totally innocent reasons that he could

931
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: have wanted to get involved in this case. But three

932
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: of the top of seven said that they saw Robert

933
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: around the apartment five A at that time. But um, oh, hey,

934
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: he lived a hundred and sixty yards away. Probably they did,

935
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: or they saw somebody who looked like him, because his

936
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: mom said that he was home all evening. Okay, well,

937
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 1: every buddy knows your mom always comforts. Your mom is

938
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: gonna say, no, not he was here. I'm not I'm

939
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: not being I'm not joking. It's that's true. A mom's

940
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: automatic reaction. In almost every case that we've ever looked at,

941
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: or whether beyond this podcast or not, their mom always

942
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: backs them because that's a maternal thing you do. You

943
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: protect your child, course of course. But the thing about

944
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: it is is that if he shows you, if he

945
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: comes wandering on home with a three year old girl

946
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: into and he's like, Mom, I just kid that this

947
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 1: three year old girl and she's gonna be my sex

948
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:31,959
Speaker 1: slave or something like that, Mom is probably not gonna

949
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: be down with that, but she says, we now have

950
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 1: a little girl to raise. Mom might be on board

951
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: with that, maybe with it. Again. I gotta wonder too.

952
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you might be. But you know,

953
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 1: you would think that as a mother, she would recognize

954
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: the tremendous grief that they would bring to the real

955
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: mother of Maddie. Yeah. Well no, I mean it would

956
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: have been easy enough, you know, for her to just say, oh, yeah,

957
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 1: I know, we found her, but it doesn't matter because

958
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: a huge search for evidence was carried out on the

959
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: mom's house, you know, through the car. His car was

960
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: the one that was the suspect car that the dogs

961
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: sniffed at. Uh. Literally, nothing was found. They like scoured

962
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: the crap out of everything that he owned, every place

963
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 1: he had been, everywhere he lived. They called in character

964
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: witnesses all of that stuff. Nothing was found. They said, oh, boops, sorry,

965
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: you're innocent. And eventually, you know, this happened to the

966
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: Mechans too. Um. The media pretty much just deemed him

967
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 1: guilty for a while, and he sued a couple of

968
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: different media agencies for Liabel and eventually won more than

969
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand dollars in those suits combined. It's a

970
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: good winning him. Yeah, so I would say, I agree,

971
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: he's probably innocent. I would say, so, yeah, Now here's

972
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: a thing I need Joe to yeah say for me,

973
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: Ris and German, but I'm going to rust Hans from

974
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: my guest, there's a tenuous, incredibly tenuous link between this

975
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: known pedophile and a possible abduction. Uh, it was not

976
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: just a pedophile. He was a pedophile and a murderer. Yeah.

977
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: He lived in Spain, not so not very close to

978
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:31,439
Speaker 1: this Portuguese resort place. But I guess somebody thought, well,

979
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: he has a pattern of abducting and murdering young girls,

980
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: so he might be in on it. He was. He

981
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: committed suicide in July of two thousand seven by shooting

982
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: himself in the head after abducting a five year old

983
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: girl in Spain. I don't put any stock into this,

984
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to mention it. Yeah, that just

985
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: seems like that's just too easy. All he's a he's

986
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 1: a pedophile murderer. Probably of things did hyeah. I think

987
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: that's maybe one of those things that most people can

988
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: agree onmore. It will come as no surprise. We've already

989
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: discussed a little bit that the Meccans were also suspects,

990
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: And because this episode is a little long already, and

991
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: because there's just a lot to say, we're going to

992
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: kind of just bullet point this thing of note. Who

993
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: leaves their kid alone in an unlocked room in a

994
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: strange country for like every night, for your the duration

995
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: of your holiday, after having left a note that everybody

996
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: could see. Who does that? Really? Who does that? Right?

997
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 1: I believe we called that red flags flags, lots of

998
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,479
Speaker 1: lots of little red flags. The other thing that people

999
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 1: talk about a lot is they've taken her. The fact

1000
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: that Kate came running screaming they've taken her. And the

1001
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: Portuguese police actually said that they thought that Kate was

1002
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: setting up spending the stage for an abduction story. Because

1003
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: I think I think this is really fair to say

1004
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: that most parents, when walking into the room and seeing

1005
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: your kids gone, you're going to start screaming, she's missing.

1006
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: Where the hell is Mike, right where I can't find her?

1007
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: She's gone. You're not going to scream they've taken her.

1008
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: That's a little strange. It's weird. Although again, um, it

1009
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: just depends on the account she read. This, is that

1010
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,439
Speaker 1: actually what she was screaming? That's every account I've read

1011
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: says that. No, correct me if I'm wrong. I swear.

1012
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: I also remember because the door slam because the window

1013
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 1: in the bedroom that the kids were in was open. Yeah.

1014
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: Playing a little bit of Devil's advocate here, she could

1015
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 1: have realized that her daughter was gone, looked over, saw

1016
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: the window was open, and made the immediate presumption, correct

1017
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: or not, that somebody had coming through the window and

1018
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: taking the child and left. And that's why she immediately

1019
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: started screaming, they've taken they've taken her, not necessarily meaning

1020
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: they've as in two or three people, but just they

1021
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: say the unknown people. Yeah, I think that's fair. I

1022
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: think there's you know, it's that both sides of that

1023
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: for sure. Again, it's the lots of little red flags.

1024
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: Kate also refused to answer um of the questions that

1025
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: the Portuguese police asked her, and she in fact said

1026
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: that the reason that she refused to answer them was

1027
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: because she was afraid they might implicate her. Do we

1028
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 1: know what those questions were? Specifically? No, we don't, And

1029
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 1: that's fair. I mean, that's another fair point, right, But

1030
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: I do think that that's weird. Again, if I can't

1031
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 1: think of it, I mean maybe you can't. I can't

1032
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: think of a question that they would have asked her

1033
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: reasonably within those first you know it was. It wasn't like,

1034
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: you know, four months later they were asking your questions.

1035
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: It was pretty early on asking your questions. I can't

1036
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: think of a question that you would ask that, you know,

1037
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: questions that you would ask I can, okay, ask me

1038
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: what do yeah, but like walk through me with this.

1039
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: They asked the same question over and over and over

1040
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: multiple ways. And she may have gotten fed up when

1041
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: they said when they were saying, did did you kill

1042
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: your daughter? Did you hide her somewhere? And she may

1043
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: have said, shut your bloody mouth, I'm not answering that.

1044
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: Screw off, This isn't helping, and they said, well, she

1045
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: refused to answer that question because she's obviously guilty, that's

1046
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: all that's possible. And then also, don't forget this a

1047
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: language barrier here, so they're going through translators. So yeah,

1048
00:57:57,920 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: I guess you know. The sense that I had was

1049
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: that she had flat out refused to answer forty eight

1050
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: individuals different questions, and she did. Her lawyers did say,

1051
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: oh yeah, the reason she didn't answer those is because

1052
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: she thought they would implicate her. It wasn't the police

1053
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: later saying oh what, it seemed like she was scared

1054
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: that we were going to say she was guilty. Her

1055
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: lawyers actually came out and said, oh yeah, the reason

1056
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: she didn't answer those is because she thought they would

1057
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: implicate her. I can see that lawyers being they kept answering,

1058
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: asking the same question, trying to get her to say

1059
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: something the same answer different ways. Because cops do this

1060
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: all the time, you get them to exploit. Wait, run

1061
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: me through this scenario one more time. How many times

1062
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: have you watched the Cops show where you'll see the

1063
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: cops saying now, I just need you to explain this

1064
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: to me one more time because they want people to

1065
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: say it in multiple versions to see if they can

1066
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: parse anything apart to find a detail that accidentally slips

1067
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 1: into the narrative. And again, if, like Joe said, this

1068
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: is going through translators, I can see how frustrating that is.

1069
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely so maybe the lawyers like, yeah, she answered the question,

1070
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: she knew better than to keep answering, because they just

1071
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: keep doing this. They're trying to finger her for the

1072
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: for the whole thing. I get it. I don't believe

1073
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: the parents, but I don't like this whole story in general.

1074
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying I don't. I guess I just

1075
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: don't think that even in lawyers speak, saying she thought

1076
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: the question, the answers to those questions might implicate her

1077
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: means she like they kept asking her the same question.

1078
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: I think that a lawyer says to the public in

1079
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: a press conference says they kept asking her if she

1080
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: had murdered her daughter, and she kept saying, no, that's

1081
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: you don't say she thought that it might implicate her.

1082
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: No lawyer would say that, I'm going to say about

1083
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: your car. You can't say that though in an active

1084
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 1: open investigation, but you can't say I don't know. I

1085
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: feel like a different way, but yeah, this whole unanswered

1086
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: question thing, we've beaten that to ye, no pun intended.

1087
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Um, the sniffer dog reactions, that's a

1088
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: bullet point of this one. It's a pretty good one.

1089
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: We did already discuss a little bit the different ways

1090
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: that that could be interpreted. And again, you know, because

1091
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: they don't know which dog alerted to what, it's hard

1092
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 1: to tell. The theories around the Meccans. They're mostly not nefarious, accidental,

1093
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 1: they're mostly accidental. And in fact that yeah, Joe's you know,

1094
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: kind of hit the nail on the head, as Steve

1095
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: would say, that what the Portuguese police originally thought, and

1096
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 1: then they said, no, that didn't happen. But I think

1097
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people have held onto and I, you know,

1098
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: I honestly my heart goes out to this theory a

1099
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: little bit because I can see where they were coming from.

1100
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: Maybe is that, you know, sometimes you've got a kid

1101
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: who's a little overactive, and you're tired, and you just

1102
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,439
Speaker 1: want to enjoy your holiday, and you give the kids

1103
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: some heroin. No, you give kids some like benadral it,

1104
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: a little bit of benadryl to try and calm them down,

1105
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: or a little bit of whatever sedative. They were both physicians,

1106
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: so they definitely had access to a lot of different

1107
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: kinds of sedatives or otherwise sleep aids of some kind

1108
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: that might have helped her relax or sleep. And we

1109
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: don't know if she was one of those kids who

1110
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: was like super hyperactive, she was excited to be going home.

1111
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: Who knows, But the theory goes that she was given

1112
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: a sedative and it was an accidental overdose. Though again

1113
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: they were physicians, so they probably shouldn't have accidentally overdosed her.

1114
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,919
Speaker 1: But fine, whatever, she died, they freaked out and tried

1115
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: to cover it up. I have no sympathy for this

1116
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 1: theory whatsoever, because when your kid has had an accident,

1117
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: it is bleeding and unconscious, you think the kid is dead,

1118
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: but you don't know for sure. You alert somebody and

1119
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 1: try and call the ACE. Same thing with an overdose,

1120
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: you call an ambulance exactly. And I actually was just talking.

1121
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: I was talking to somebody about this because that's what

1122
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 1: I do. I think you guys do this too, at

1123
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: least I know Steve does. I don't know if Joe

1124
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: does or not. But when I'm working on a story,

1125
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you know, my significant other or friends

1126
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: about the story and you were talking for dinner last night,

1127
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: and I said, but what you do, like if an

1128
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: accident happened, you like, find somebody, you know, you don't

1129
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: look at this like poor child of yours who's suffering

1130
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: on the ground and think, crap, better cover that up.

1131
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: Oh damn, I got another body to hide. You go, no,

1132
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what happened? What have I done? I

1133
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: gotta you know? And I guess it's possible that, right,

1134
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: she like died in her sleep. Maybe maybe what happened

1135
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: was they gave her too much sedative and they didn't

1136
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: realize and when Jerry went to go check on them,

1137
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,479
Speaker 1: he checked on them, or they both gave her the dose,

1138
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: not realizing that the other had already done it. Right,

1139
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: But what you know that they realized after the fact

1140
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: that she wasn't breathing anymore, you know, after they came

1141
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: back and he had to defy something. It's it's possible,

1142
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: it's still but you still you revived that kid. You

1143
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: try and revive that kid, And it's understandable. I for

1144
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: you to kind of make the argument, it's you know,

1145
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: it's not going to go super great for you, but

1146
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 1: your kid's not going to be dead exactly. Besides which,

1147
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to make any arguments at all.

1148
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: How often, when when I was a kid, my parents

1149
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: told me, look all that stuff in the medicine cabinet.

1150
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: You don't go eating that stuff like candy because it'll

1151
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: kill you. And of course after that they came up

1152
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: with child proof caps and stuff like that. So but that,

1153
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: But the idea of a kid getting into some drugs

1154
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: and and swallowing a bunch of pills, not realizing what

1155
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 1: he's doing, and dying is not exactly outrageous. So you

1156
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: just say, you know, there's a reason they came up

1157
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,439
Speaker 1: with Mr Yuck to put on everything. Oh yeah, yeah,

1158
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,439
Speaker 1: So you just say to the kid just you said,

1159
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, You just say to the police, Uh, the

1160
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: kid got into these drugs unfortunately, and and O deed,

1161
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: so please save my kid's life, and I'm We're sorry

1162
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: as hell. There was no crime. Actually, you don't even

1163
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: have to go that far. You can say, I don't

1164
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 1: know what's going on. I'm a physician. She's unconscious and

1165
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: it appears to be some kind of drug reaction and

1166
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. And then they rushed

1167
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 1: to the hospital and then one of you quote unquote

1168
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 1: figures out that one of the pill bottles has been opened. Yeah.

1169
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: I mean like we're flushing out a bunch and we're

1170
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 1: really going down the rabbit hole here. But there's a

1171
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: million ways that that could happen. Yeah. The point is

1172
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 1: is that the Mechansas suspect suspects makes no sense to me,

1173
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: because if the kid had had an accident, they would

1174
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: have called an ambulance. If the candidaded, they would have

1175
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: called an ambulance. I just can't believe that they would

1176
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: have burned their own kids. And I guess that for me,

1177
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: I totally agree. But for the red flat, you know,

1178
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: it's kind of that. It's that thing where had they

1179
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: not left their kid alone, had they seemed as they

1180
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: were more attentive, had all of these tiny little red

1181
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: flags led up to this thing, I would be way

1182
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: more willing to say, there's no way they would try

1183
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: and cover this accident. Of course, not any compassionate caring

1184
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: parent wouldn't try and cover that up. But honestly, the

1185
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: story of the Meccans doesn't exactly paint a compassionate caring

1186
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: parent picture. And again, I don't say that to disparage them,

1187
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: because I mean, they're still raising those children. They those

1188
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: children are alive. Yeah, that murder me yet, I'm they

1189
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: probably won't. But because I don't, it just doesn't. So

1190
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: much of me wants to be able to say, yeah,

1191
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: I agree, it doesn't make sense because it doesn't make sense.

1192
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 1: But a lot of the stuff they did doesn't make

1193
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: sense to me, and I don't. I don't have a

1194
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: good theory on this one, but I do think that

1195
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: of the likely suspects, they are the most likely. They

1196
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: are a little too little follow up things here. One

1197
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:56,439
Speaker 1: is that in two thousand eight, may have two thousand eight,

1198
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 1: about almost you know, a year, a little more than

1199
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 1: a year after Maddie went missing, there was a note

1200
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 1: left on the doorway of the apartment that the Meccans

1201
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: had been staying in that said that Maddie's body had

1202
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: been dumped in a reservoir. And there's some there was Yeah,

1203
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 1: I said the specific reservoir, but I can't remember the

1204
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: name off the top of my head. I'm sorry, you

1205
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 1: don't know. It's the language. I don't know, um, but

1206
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 1: they there's some research done in it, but it's basically

1207
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: brushed off as not valid this claim they didn't train

1208
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: the reservoir, and look, they did not. There's also been

1209
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: a few sightings quote unquote sightings of Maddie in Spain

1210
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: and Portugal, and they've mostly been with local families. You know,

1211
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: somebody will say, oh, yeah, I saw this local family.

1212
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 1: But also one of their the people they were calling

1213
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 1: their daughters, was this pale, blonde haired girl who looked

1214
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 1: a whole lot like she could have been Maddie. And

1215
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 1: I think it was made. You know. So that's um

1216
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 1: a thing that's been happening a lot. It's been happening

1217
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: this entire time, honestly. Um, so that's worth mentioning as well.

1218
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, so that's kind of the story. Well maybe

1219
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 1: maybe mad they will find yourself. Because if she's what

1220
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: eleven now, she mean missing in two thousand and seven,

1221
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: she was three. She was born in two thousand three, right,

1222
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: she would have been four, and she had just turned

1223
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: She was born in May of two thousand three, so

1224
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: she was three when she disappeared, so she would have Yeah,

1225
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: so imagine that, you know. I mean, so she's taken

1226
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: when she's three, and she's too young to really have

1227
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 1: much of much memory. Of anything, and so somebody snatched

1228
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 1: her and say adopted her because they wanted they wanted

1229
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 1: a kid, but she was a cute kid too. Yeah,

1230
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: get little kid. And so imagine you're this person and

1231
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 1: you you're being raised by these people or your parents,

1232
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 1: and then you're reading this and the somewhat on one days,

1233
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: stumble across in the inner the story of Madeline McCann.

1234
01:07:57,720 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: And they do age progressions every couple of years, and

1235
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: they publicize those. They have one of her when she

1236
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 1: was nine. Yeah, and then you see these but then

1237
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 1: you see these these you see all these pictures of

1238
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: her eyes and that weird anomally in her eye And

1239
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't that be wouldn't that be really waits, that might

1240
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: be me? Yeah, I doubt that what you're suggesting is

1241
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 1: remotely a possibility. Well, that's just me being wistfully thinking.

1242
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 1: I would prefer right on the right, on the outset.

1243
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to say, this is gonna sound terrible. I

1244
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: don't want it to be her parents. I wanted to

1245
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:48,679
Speaker 1: be somebody else. But to be somebody else means very

1246
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: bad things. They all mean very bad thing Because here's

1247
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 1: what I did. And I don't know if I didn't

1248
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,600
Speaker 1: tell you do this is that I read some of

1249
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,759
Speaker 1: the article and then I couldn't stomach of the article anymore.

1250
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 1: So what I did is I took it in the

1251
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 1: way that I could, which is I started going into

1252
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: research specifically just on abductions. And the stats are staggering

1253
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 1: as to likely what has happened, because there's there's two

1254
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: kinds of situations. There is a known person abduction, so

1255
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: that's you know, an acquaintance or a family member, except

1256
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:31,720
Speaker 1: none of those people who are around, So then this

1257
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: becomes what's called a stereotypical kidnapping, which is by somebody

1258
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,719
Speaker 1: that a child doesn't know. There's some very set things

1259
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 1: that happened at that point that didn't A ransom wasn't

1260
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: put out that we know of. Well, we skipped over

1261
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: this part um, but there were some people that were

1262
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 1: arrested for trying to exploit the mechans to say that

1263
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: they had information about where Mattie was. But that's that's exploitation.

1264
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: That's not specifically rants, but it seems to happen a

1265
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 1: lot in cases like this. Absolutely talked about there was

1266
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,719
Speaker 1: a situation like that. But but the things that normally happened.

1267
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: Is if it's a stereotypical kidnapping, is the child is

1268
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: transported up to or fifty or more miles away, which

1269
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: we talked about roadblocks. Hey, thanks guys, um. And then

1270
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 1: the child is either a put into some kind of

1271
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 1: slavery scenario and I'm not going to explain that, or

1272
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 1: is kept to be raised on their own. Okay, Well

1273
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that is the one. Okay, all of these

1274
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: things they tell me, I mean, I can, I can

1275
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:42,640
Speaker 1: go through this law, your list of stats, things like

1276
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, one percent of kidnapped kids. No, I don't

1277
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: want to hear you never come back. I don't want

1278
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 1: to hear that. Then three hours most of them are dead.

1279
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 1: But I mean, there's there's all this stuff. There's and

1280
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 1: all these numbers and I'm pulling by the way their

1281
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: us it's all from the FBI, because go figure, because

1282
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:02,599
Speaker 1: if a child is listed as abducted, it doesn't matter

1283
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: for what reason, the FBI will step in. And that's

1284
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: the little it's a federal stuff out of the Uniform

1285
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:13,680
Speaker 1: Crime Report. Well, I got it from the FED, from

1286
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 1: the FBI's website, and they have a bunch of PDFs

1287
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: that you can pour through, which are not nice things

1288
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: to pour through, but I did. Anyway. Now I go

1289
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: to the I go out to the uniform crime reports

1290
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 1: all the time. Actually they're quite useful. Well they're they're

1291
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 1: they're disturbing. But but here's here's my thing is that

1292
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: if I want Magdaline to have been abducted by somebody

1293
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:38,639
Speaker 1: to have been kept as that person's child, it means

1294
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: a woman would have been the one who did the abduction. Well,

1295
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:48,959
Speaker 1: unless somebody kidnapped for a woman. Primarily primarily when women,

1296
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: when women do the abduction, it's because they want to

1297
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 1: have a child of their own. For whatever reason, lost

1298
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,679
Speaker 1: a child, can't have a child, doesn't matter that that's

1299
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 1: their primary motive. It's a very re extremely low percentage

1300
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 1: of man do it for that reason. So yes, a

1301
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 1: woman could have had talked to man into doing it,

1302
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 1: but that's a very low probability. A woman could have

1303
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 1: had a husband who you know, and they wanted to

1304
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 1: have kids, and she especially wanted to have it, and

1305
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 1: she was getting all Cathy Bates on him, and he's like, okay,

1306
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 1: I'll find you a kid. But but the point is,

1307
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:30,799
Speaker 1: I hate this story because I feel so terrible for

1308
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:37,839
Speaker 1: the parents because I am so absolutely positive that Patty's

1309
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 1: not alive anymore. And that's the reason that I hate

1310
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 1: these cases is that so often, more often than not,

1311
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:48,680
Speaker 1: the numbers don't support the probabilities. Yeah, no, it is

1312
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 1: most likely that she's not alive. Yeah, I mean, I mean,

1313
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,759
Speaker 1: I hope. This is one of those one that sucks

1314
01:12:55,840 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 1: you guys. Stop suggesting these stories, please, because you suggest

1315
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 1: them and we have to do them happy stories, just like,

1316
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 1: no more weird missing kids please. This is this is

1317
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: why I don't like these stories. I know, but we

1318
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 1: have to do them. I know, I know we do,

1319
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:16,000
Speaker 1: but I'm just I'm just going to take this stance

1320
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: right now. Is that the stats support what I unfortunately

1321
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: don't like. Is there the writing on the wall and well,

1322
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 1: as you know, as a a side, um, not that

1323
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 1: they needed the money, but the Meccans have one a

1324
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 1: lot of libel lot they have one way more than

1325
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 1: Robert ever won. But they also have written making stuff.

1326
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:41,599
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and we're sitting here on a podcast talking

1327
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:43,680
Speaker 1: about all the red flags and how they could have

1328
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:47,640
Speaker 1: totally accidentally killed their daughter. You know, I think it

1329
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 1: sucks to be them, absolutely because not only are they

1330
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: going through the pain of losing a child, they're also

1331
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 1: being accused of being horrible human beings. It's kind of

1332
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 1: like Marl Murray's dad. You know, I felt the same

1333
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: way about himmy now, so it's poor the poor guy.

1334
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 1: He loses his daughter and everybody in the Internet is

1335
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 1: accusing him of being a murderer. Yeah, but you know,

1336
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: maybe just don't do suspicious stuff, you guys, Yeah, because

1337
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: it's so easy to know. Okay, if my kid disappears today,

1338
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 1: what do I not do? Do you not make lists

1339
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: like that? Because I absolutely do. Oh yeah, yeah, well

1340
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 1: I do unsolved mysteries like that's my thing, so I

1341
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,720
Speaker 1: know what not to do. So, you know, instead, I

1342
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 1: follow a very specific pattern every day, so it's very

1343
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,479
Speaker 1: obvious what I do every day. Also, I think maybe

1344
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 1: you just don't plan to have kids, Well, then I

1345
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 1: don't plan to do anything bad to them or anybody

1346
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: anybody ever. This is why we keep our identities of secret.

1347
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:43,639
Speaker 1: That's true, exactly. The guy's pretty soon and the internet

1348
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:45,639
Speaker 1: is going to be alive with rumors that we committed

1349
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 1: all these murders that we talked about on our show.

1350
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 1: So that's why we stay hidden. Yeah, I can't wait

1351
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: to be at your kids mitzvah. So that's the end

1352
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: of this episode. I'm sorry I was long. I know

1353
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 1: you guys really when we do long episodes. UM, if

1354
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 1: you want to see some of the research that I

1355
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 1: did for this episode, UM, we'll put some links up.

1356
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 1: You can also comment on this story. You can listen

1357
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 1: in download as well, all on our website. That website

1358
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 1: is thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Um. I think that

1359
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:22,720
Speaker 1: there's a link to merch and to donate and to

1360
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 1: do a survey there as well on the right hand sidebar. Uh.

1361
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 1: You might also you probably are actually listening to us

1362
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: on iTunes. If you are, and you haven't already, leave

1363
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:36,799
Speaker 1: us comment and rating. That's how people find us. Um,

1364
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 1: you may be streaming us. I know a lot of

1365
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 1: you are also doing that on just a bunch of

1366
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 1: different sites. I don't know streaming stuff. I'm an Apple kid.

1367
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Well, there's there's all. There's a lot of them.

1368
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 1: Find us on Facebook, find us, friend us, like us. Actually,

1369
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 1: you know there's speaking of streaming. There's been a bunch

1370
01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 1: of talk of which app to use stream that Facebook group, Yeah,

1371
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:02,840
Speaker 1: join the group and then you can find out which

1372
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 1: ones are better than others, because some of them do

1373
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 1: actually cut us off for example, that's annoying. Um, we're

1374
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 1: on Twitter thinking Sideways. Some cool activity there, I guess

1375
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:19,839
Speaker 1: a little bit some of it. Email Thinking Sideways podcast

1376
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Email us story ideas, thoughts about

1377
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: this episode, thoughts about other episodes, creative criticism, just fan girl,

1378
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: fan boy ing, um bet anything, literally, anything you want

1379
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 1: to say to us, you can email us, and if

1380
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 1: we don't like it, we'll just ignore it pretty much it. Yeah,

1381
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: I think that's it. So as Steve would say that,

1382
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:47,840
Speaker 1: having been said, I think we're gonna get out of here,

1383
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 1: can we please? Yes, that's time, by everybody, by us.

1384
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 1: Two