WEBVTT - Ben Kweller 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:20.956 Pushkin. Hey, this is Justin Richmond from the Broken Record podcast. 0:00:21.276 --> 0:00:23.436 Join me this June for a live taping of Broken 0:00:23.476 --> 0:00:26.276 Record at the Tribeca Festival. We're all bee in conversation 0:00:26.476 --> 0:00:29.356 with Infinity Song, a New York based soft rock band 0:00:29.356 --> 0:00:31.996 comprised of four siblings who will also be doing a 0:00:32.036 --> 0:00:34.596 couple of songs for us. You'll hear the artist and 0:00:34.636 --> 0:00:38.956 a career spanning conversation about their inspirations and dynamic styles. 0:00:39.556 --> 0:00:41.916 We'll be at the SVA Theater on June twelve at 0:00:41.956 --> 0:00:45.876 eight thirty pm. Defund tickets. Visit tribecafilm dot com slash 0:00:45.916 --> 0:00:50.756 Broken Record all lowercase. That's tribecafilm dot com slash Broken Record. 0:00:50.956 --> 0:00:56.076 Hope to see there. For close to three decades, Benkqueler's 0:00:56.116 --> 0:01:00.116 been crafting deeply personal indie rock that's both intimate and expansive, 0:01:00.596 --> 0:01:02.676 from his early days fronting the band Radish as a 0:01:02.716 --> 0:01:05.596 teenager in the nineties to his acclaimed solo career that 0:01:05.676 --> 0:01:09.436 began in the early two thousands, He's consistently delivered songs 0:01:09.436 --> 0:01:14.196 that feel raw, honest, and almost conversational. But his latest album, 0:01:14.236 --> 0:01:17.196 Covered the Mirrors finds Ben in a different place entirely. 0:01:17.956 --> 0:01:21.676 This isn't just another collection of songs. It's an unflinching 0:01:21.756 --> 0:01:25.556 examination of grief, healing, and the complicated process of moving 0:01:25.596 --> 0:01:30.236 forward after unimaginable loss. In today's episode, we'll talk with 0:01:30.276 --> 0:01:33.196 Ben about the loss of his teenage son Dorian, how 0:01:33.236 --> 0:01:35.796 Ben and his family embraced grief and managed to not 0:01:35.836 --> 0:01:38.276 retreat from their lives and work, and what it means 0:01:38.316 --> 0:01:41.556 to return to making and releasing music. We'll also talk 0:01:41.596 --> 0:01:44.356 about Ben's journey through the music industry, from bidding wars 0:01:44.396 --> 0:01:46.396 with his first band that led to him performing for 0:01:46.476 --> 0:01:48.876 idols like Tom Petty at a private party in Malibu, 0:01:49.316 --> 0:01:54.676 to going independent and moving to his ranch in Texas. 0:01:55.276 --> 0:02:01.356 This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. This episode 0:02:01.396 --> 0:02:04.476 is brought to you by Defender, a vehicle engineered to 0:02:04.516 --> 0:02:07.236 meet challenges head on so you can explore with confidence. 0:02:07.996 --> 0:02:11.436 Adventure Seekers and takers can explore the full Defender lineup 0:02:11.596 --> 0:02:16.316 at land ROVERUSA dot com. Here's my conversation with Ben 0:02:16.396 --> 0:02:20.036 Queler from his ranch outside of Austin. It's like amazing 0:02:20.036 --> 0:02:21.956 to be you have a beautiful spot. 0:02:22.236 --> 0:02:22.636 Thank you. 0:02:22.756 --> 0:02:25.756 It's like it's in a beautiful part of the country. Yeah, 0:02:25.796 --> 0:02:28.796 it's beautiful. This bactual physical space we're in. 0:02:29.356 --> 0:02:34.716 Thank you. Yeah. This barn was actually moved here from 0:02:34.756 --> 0:02:37.956 Fourth and Lavaca in downtown Austin. It was part of 0:02:37.956 --> 0:02:42.716 the Missouri Pacific Railroad station in the eighteen eighties and 0:02:43.716 --> 0:02:46.476 it was moved here in the nineteen eighties as just 0:02:46.516 --> 0:02:49.636 a horse barn. But it was like four of these 0:02:49.756 --> 0:02:53.956 long classic Texas hill country story. It was like, you know, 0:02:54.236 --> 0:02:56.596 four of these long and there were four brothers and 0:02:56.636 --> 0:02:58.716 each brother got a quarter of the barn. You know. 0:02:58.756 --> 0:03:00.956 It's like it's like that kind of thing. I don't 0:03:00.956 --> 0:03:03.316 know where the other sections are, like if they are 0:03:03.356 --> 0:03:04.756 still around or what, but. 0:03:04.996 --> 0:03:07.076 Be interesting to track down if it's possible. 0:03:07.156 --> 0:03:10.676 Exactly you know it was here on this property is 0:03:10.756 --> 0:03:13.796 just a horse barn. This front wall over here was 0:03:13.876 --> 0:03:16.716 just wide open to the elements. And so when we 0:03:16.756 --> 0:03:20.196 moved to this property, we just used it just as 0:03:20.356 --> 0:03:23.516 you know, bicycles and punching bags and kids would our 0:03:23.516 --> 0:03:26.396 boys would skateboard in here, and so it was just 0:03:26.476 --> 0:03:32.916 like a just a gnarly garage space. And then last 0:03:32.956 --> 0:03:35.316 year we decided to renovate it and really turn it 0:03:35.316 --> 0:03:38.556 into a studio. So we put a front wall on it. 0:03:38.756 --> 0:03:40.076 This is only a year's worth of work. 0:03:40.236 --> 0:03:43.236 Yeah, it took about a year. Yeah, And a lot 0:03:43.236 --> 0:03:45.636 of this wood is old wood, and you know, you 0:03:45.676 --> 0:03:47.956 can see the old and the new kind of feathered 0:03:47.996 --> 0:03:52.796 in together. And then these huge columns, the blue columns. 0:03:52.876 --> 0:03:56.396 There's six of those, so that's like the original structure. 0:03:57.116 --> 0:03:58.676 I like the old and the new mixtent though, and 0:03:58.676 --> 0:04:01.836 I also like that, you know, it's all just everything's 0:04:01.876 --> 0:04:03.716 in flux, you know. 0:04:03.756 --> 0:04:05.716 And I just love thinking about, like all the energy 0:04:05.756 --> 0:04:08.316 of the people that have come and gone through this 0:04:08.476 --> 0:04:10.356 building on a train. 0:04:10.556 --> 0:04:12.516 It's very fun to imagine that stuff. You know, you 0:04:12.516 --> 0:04:14.516 can just sit and think about it forever. I'll never 0:04:14.556 --> 0:04:16.476 crack it, but now just can only all you can 0:04:16.476 --> 0:04:17.196 do is imagine. 0:04:17.236 --> 0:04:17.676 That's it. 0:04:17.956 --> 0:04:19.916 Do you know why this was moved here in eighty one? 0:04:19.956 --> 0:04:24.036 Well, so the ranch originally was the hurl Butt Ranch. 0:04:24.076 --> 0:04:27.436 There's a really famous Central Texas family, the hurl Butts. 0:04:28.236 --> 0:04:31.556 So this was originally like thousands of acres back in 0:04:31.596 --> 0:04:36.436 the day. And in fact, the first Willie Nelson's picnic 0:04:36.636 --> 0:04:40.396 was out here about a mile down the road, but 0:04:40.676 --> 0:04:41.756 on the hurl Butt ranch. 0:04:41.916 --> 0:04:42.196 Wow. 0:04:42.236 --> 0:04:45.956 Because they were friends the hurl Butts and Willie and 0:04:46.076 --> 0:04:49.996 so there's a lot of history on this land. When 0:04:50.036 --> 0:04:53.396 we found this property was twenty fifteen and it just 0:04:53.436 --> 0:04:56.196 sat on the market for a year and no one 0:04:56.236 --> 0:04:58.156 really wanted it. We were in the middle of a drought, 0:04:59.036 --> 0:05:02.276 and we always kind of had that My wife and 0:05:02.356 --> 0:05:04.956 I had that dream search of like okay, we want 0:05:04.996 --> 0:05:09.956 like some acreage, an old house, and some water, natural water. 0:05:10.836 --> 0:05:14.556 And this came up and we kind of watched it, 0:05:14.676 --> 0:05:16.836 and but it was really far away from Austin. We 0:05:16.836 --> 0:05:20.996 were living downtown Austin at the time. And we came 0:05:21.036 --> 0:05:24.556 and looked looked at the property and it was so cool, 0:05:24.796 --> 0:05:27.876 like but it was one of those things where every 0:05:28.036 --> 0:05:30.516 structure on the property was worse than the next and 0:05:30.556 --> 0:05:33.036 so like it was just like it needed so much work. 0:05:33.076 --> 0:05:35.476 Windows were busted in the main house. There were deer 0:05:35.516 --> 0:05:39.076 living inside like animals. Like it was gnarly. It was 0:05:39.116 --> 0:05:41.756 like a ghost house, but you could tell it was 0:05:41.876 --> 0:05:44.556 really cool, you know, like if you just put some 0:05:44.636 --> 0:05:49.996 love into it. Bones it had good bones, exactly, And 0:05:50.036 --> 0:05:55.956 so we went for it. And we originally didn't think 0:05:55.996 --> 0:05:58.356 we would live here. We just knew we wanted to 0:05:58.396 --> 0:06:02.196 have a creative space, you know, recording music, making art, 0:06:02.476 --> 0:06:06.596 a little retreat type vibe. And the more we came 0:06:06.636 --> 0:06:09.236 out here and the more we realized that, well, we 0:06:09.236 --> 0:06:11.356 don't really have a nine to five job, you know, 0:06:11.436 --> 0:06:14.156 we can kind of be anywhere. We were like, let's 0:06:14.196 --> 0:06:17.996 just move full time. So in twenty eighteen we moved 0:06:18.116 --> 0:06:20.396 to the main house, which I'll walk you over there 0:06:20.516 --> 0:06:23.676 in a little while, and we just loved it. We 0:06:23.716 --> 0:06:26.356 loved being out in the country. We're about forty five 0:06:26.396 --> 0:06:31.236 minutes west of Austin, and yeah, I just I can't 0:06:31.276 --> 0:06:35.316 imagine not living where I do. And I think also 0:06:35.476 --> 0:06:38.276 just you know, being a touring artist, you know, I'm 0:06:38.316 --> 0:06:40.436 always in cities, just like all the time, and so 0:06:40.636 --> 0:06:43.036 it really is fun to land at the airport and 0:06:43.076 --> 0:06:46.196 in an hour, I'm back here with the trees and 0:06:46.236 --> 0:06:50.276 the sky and the birds and now the studio. 0:06:51.036 --> 0:06:56.116 Yeah, and your whole life is kind of an odd 0:06:56.196 --> 0:07:01.196 mix of urban in country totally. Oh yeah, it is. 0:07:01.316 --> 0:07:03.436 I'm a little bit of this, a little bit of that, 0:07:03.676 --> 0:07:05.996 you know. That's always and you know, my mom always 0:07:05.996 --> 0:07:08.116 said it was because I'm a Gemini, because she's all 0:07:08.156 --> 0:07:13.876 into that stuff astrology and geminized the twins, and so 0:07:13.916 --> 0:07:16.396 we were really good at seeing both sides of every coin. 0:07:16.876 --> 0:07:19.796 And my wife Liz a libro, which is the balance. 0:07:20.636 --> 0:07:24.236 So we actually work really well together, and you know, 0:07:24.276 --> 0:07:26.676 we hardly fight because we kind of just like see 0:07:26.676 --> 0:07:29.436 each other's point of view really easily, which is nice. 0:07:30.116 --> 0:07:32.596 But I just remember that I didn't really answer your question. 0:07:32.676 --> 0:07:35.316 So why was this bar moved here? So it was 0:07:35.356 --> 0:07:38.636 the hurl Butt ranch and it was just land. And 0:07:38.716 --> 0:07:44.276 in nineteen eighty one, this local legend, Bobby Stevens, bought 0:07:44.636 --> 0:07:47.556 this parcel of land, which is thirty acres because the 0:07:47.596 --> 0:07:50.236 hurl Butt family eventually, like you know, divvied it up 0:07:50.276 --> 0:07:52.676 and who knows what happened, you know, thousands of acres 0:07:52.756 --> 0:07:56.796 became just little plots. So Bobby Stevens bought this ranch 0:07:57.516 --> 0:08:01.956 thirty acres and he was driving in Austin and saw 0:08:02.076 --> 0:08:06.716 wrecking ball about to knock over this Victorian house. So 0:08:06.756 --> 0:08:08.876 he jumped out of his pickup truck nineteen eighty one, 0:08:09.356 --> 0:08:11.036 was like, yo, what are you guys doing with that 0:08:11.076 --> 0:08:14.156 wrecking ball? And they said, oh, well the bank, the 0:08:14.196 --> 0:08:16.436 bank needs it gone by six pm, you know, and 0:08:17.196 --> 0:08:19.156 and Bobby was like, well, can I have it? Like 0:08:19.236 --> 0:08:20.876 it's a house, you know. He's like, can I have it? 0:08:20.916 --> 0:08:22.356 And they were like, well, if you give us, you know, 0:08:22.556 --> 0:08:24.996 a thousand bucks, sure, and so he was like, all right, 0:08:25.036 --> 0:08:26.476 I'll be right back. And so he gave him a 0:08:26.516 --> 0:08:31.116 thousand bucks, chain saw down the center of the house, 0:08:31.756 --> 0:08:34.756 put it on two flatbed trailers and moved it out here. 0:08:35.516 --> 0:08:38.396 So the house was moved here from West sixth Street 0:08:38.516 --> 0:08:39.076 in Austin. 0:08:39.236 --> 0:08:40.996 And on did he do that all in the four 0:08:40.996 --> 0:08:41.516 to six pms? 0:08:41.836 --> 0:08:44.676 Like pretty much? He at least got it off the property. Yeah, 0:08:44.796 --> 0:08:47.716 Like this guy Bobby can do anything, Like he is 0:08:48.276 --> 0:08:51.516 just the epitome of like can fix anything and just 0:08:51.716 --> 0:08:55.676 has that drive and determination, you know. So he moved 0:08:55.716 --> 0:08:59.676 the house here and he lived here for a long time. 0:09:00.036 --> 0:09:03.916 And then shortly after they found this barn you know, 0:09:04.356 --> 0:09:07.996 from the railroad station and moved it here. And then 0:09:08.036 --> 0:09:10.076 there's a little house on the other end of the property, 0:09:10.116 --> 0:09:12.556 which we call the Happy House, which is where the 0:09:12.596 --> 0:09:15.716 band stays when we're rehearsing or if I'm producing an album, 0:09:15.876 --> 0:09:20.276 the artist has lodging and that was moved here from Austin, 0:09:20.956 --> 0:09:23.636 which is actually even crazier because it's from the Zilker 0:09:23.676 --> 0:09:27.556 neighborhood like a block away from where my family lived 0:09:27.596 --> 0:09:30.916 in Austin. So when we saw this property, we're just like, what, 0:09:31.476 --> 0:09:34.996 like that place is from Zilker And there were just 0:09:34.996 --> 0:09:38.356 so many little signs you know that's just pointed to 0:09:38.436 --> 0:09:39.956 this being home for us. 0:09:40.356 --> 0:09:42.516 That's great. Are you a person that's always looked for 0:09:42.556 --> 0:09:43.956 signs and things to know what. 0:09:44.036 --> 0:09:46.836 The ve always I've always been aware of them and 0:09:47.236 --> 0:09:53.356 felt energies from things that happen and numbers and patterns, 0:09:53.436 --> 0:09:57.036 and I mean, gosh, I guess actually going back now 0:09:57.076 --> 0:10:00.036 that I think about it, to the way I started 0:10:00.036 --> 0:10:03.436 writing songs when I was about eight, just like every 0:10:03.476 --> 0:10:06.276 other American kid, I learned heart and soul. Someone showed 0:10:06.276 --> 0:10:07.996 me how to play it dunda dun da dun da 0:10:08.076 --> 0:10:11.836 dun da dud d dante and that just repeats. And 0:10:11.876 --> 0:10:14.116 so I noticed, like, okay, well it's in the key 0:10:14.156 --> 0:10:15.756 of C, which I didn't know at the time, but 0:10:16.116 --> 0:10:19.356 I'm just seeing the white keys and you play this chord, 0:10:19.716 --> 0:10:22.996 you skip one, go down, play the next one, skip one, 0:10:23.076 --> 0:10:25.036 go down, play the next one, and go up one. 0:10:25.676 --> 0:10:28.396 And so I'm like, okay, I see that pattern. And 0:10:28.436 --> 0:10:30.916 I said, well, what if you don't play the second chord, 0:10:30.956 --> 0:10:32.956 you go from the first chord to the third chord 0:10:33.316 --> 0:10:35.836 and then up to the second chord and then the 0:10:35.876 --> 0:10:39.676 fourth chord. And that sounded like let it be because 0:10:39.716 --> 0:10:42.676 I was a big Beatles fan because my dad, that's 0:10:42.676 --> 0:10:46.316 all he played was the Beadles and Hendrix and the Hollies, 0:10:46.356 --> 0:10:48.276 like a lot of British invasion rock and roll. That's 0:10:48.276 --> 0:10:50.756 what I grew up on. And so I'm like, wow, 0:10:50.876 --> 0:10:54.716 so let it be is heart and soul, kind of 0:10:54.716 --> 0:10:57.836 inside out. So then I was like, all right, dude, 0:10:57.876 --> 0:11:00.636 well skip the second and third chord. Let's go from 0:11:00.676 --> 0:11:03.316 the first chord to the fourth chord, then the second chord, 0:11:03.316 --> 0:11:06.676 then the third chord. And that sounded like a progression 0:11:06.716 --> 0:11:10.076 I'd never heard before. Meanwhile, there's thousands of songs with 0:11:10.116 --> 0:11:12.316 that progression, you know. But at eight years old, I 0:11:12.356 --> 0:11:15.756 was like, wow, this is incredible. And so I wrote 0:11:15.796 --> 0:11:19.196 my first song, and I would just sing about girls 0:11:19.236 --> 0:11:22.676 in love because that's what the Beatles sing about. So 0:11:22.676 --> 0:11:24.996 I'm like, you write love songs. I guess that's what 0:11:25.036 --> 0:11:28.876 you do. You know, That's all I knew. And so 0:11:28.956 --> 0:11:31.636 that's how it started. And so you know, I'm very 0:11:31.716 --> 0:11:37.116 visually inclined. But yeah, signs are you know, I've always 0:11:37.156 --> 0:11:40.956 sort of felt them and seen a little deeper, I 0:11:40.956 --> 0:11:43.956 guess than what's there. I'm really curious person. I like 0:11:43.996 --> 0:11:47.236 to know how things work. I like to kind of 0:11:47.276 --> 0:11:50.756 peek behind the curtain and really know about life and 0:11:50.916 --> 0:11:53.036 what the hell is all this? You know. I mean, 0:11:53.436 --> 0:11:55.676 it's not a very novel thing to say, but that's 0:11:55.996 --> 0:11:56.876 just kind of who I am. 0:11:57.156 --> 0:11:58.356 That's still essential to who you are. 0:11:58.956 --> 0:12:01.516 And then like from a spiritual level, like I've always 0:12:01.796 --> 0:12:06.996 just sort of been fascinated about like what's beyond, you know, 0:12:07.476 --> 0:12:09.716 what is out around us that I don't see? 0:12:09.876 --> 0:12:14.076 Yeah, you know you were raised Jewish, right, Yeah, you 0:12:14.076 --> 0:12:16.036 were born in. 0:12:15.716 --> 0:12:18.156 San Francisco, born in San fran. 0:12:18.956 --> 0:12:21.356 And then reared in Texas. 0:12:20.836 --> 0:12:21.996 Reared in Texas. 0:12:22.116 --> 0:12:25.076 Yeah, I didn't really know you were born in San 0:12:25.156 --> 0:12:28.036 fran But once I learned that, there was a lot 0:12:28.076 --> 0:12:30.356 about you that makes a little more sense, okay, in 0:12:30.476 --> 0:12:33.076 the way that like that, like well even just your 0:12:33.196 --> 0:12:37.716 dad raising listening to British Invasion music primarily, and you 0:12:37.756 --> 0:12:39.836 can hear a lot of that in totally what you 0:12:39.916 --> 0:12:43.876 do for sure, And so would seem to me being 0:12:43.956 --> 0:12:47.636 raised in the Jewish faith in San Francisco at easier 0:12:47.676 --> 0:12:48.636 than out here in Texas. 0:12:48.676 --> 0:12:51.116 Oh yeah, I mean we were the only Jewish family 0:12:51.356 --> 0:12:53.876 in Greenville, which is a small town that we moved to, 0:12:54.836 --> 0:12:57.956 and so yeah, I definitely, like, you know, remember hanging 0:12:57.956 --> 0:12:59.356 out with kids who were like, you're going to go 0:12:59.356 --> 0:13:02.596 to Hell? And I'm like, really, like what's hell all about? Like, 0:13:02.636 --> 0:13:04.236 you know, because we didn't really you don't really talk 0:13:04.316 --> 0:13:08.676 much about Hell in Judaism. But yeah, we left San 0:13:08.676 --> 0:13:10.956 francisc go when I was six months old. My dad's 0:13:10.996 --> 0:13:15.156 a doctor. He did his residency in San fran and 0:13:15.476 --> 0:13:17.956 I was born there and he was part of the 0:13:18.036 --> 0:13:22.796 Rural Health Service, which back in the late seventies early eighties, 0:13:23.156 --> 0:13:25.916 the government would help pay for medical school as long 0:13:25.956 --> 0:13:28.916 as you served in a rural community after medical school. 0:13:29.196 --> 0:13:32.196 So he did his residency in San Fran and he 0:13:32.236 --> 0:13:34.636 would get all these offers like, hey, there's a town 0:13:34.636 --> 0:13:38.436 in Ohio or Pennsylvania, are you interested in that? And 0:13:38.476 --> 0:13:40.516 then one came along it's like there's a town in 0:13:40.556 --> 0:13:43.876 Texas that's never had a doctor. And my dad was 0:13:43.916 --> 0:13:47.796 like that sounds cool, like you know, the wild West 0:13:47.916 --> 0:13:50.636 or something, and so they came to Texas. I was 0:13:50.676 --> 0:13:53.676 six months old, so he was doc like. He was 0:13:53.756 --> 0:13:59.396 just like everyone's doctor, pediatrics, geriatrics, calm and cold, like 0:13:59.516 --> 0:14:01.276 even like minor surgeries. 0:14:00.836 --> 0:14:02.116 If need be, you know what I mean. 0:14:03.596 --> 0:14:05.836 Well, I think they would for deliveries. They would at 0:14:05.876 --> 0:14:07.996 least go to the hospital, which is like forty five 0:14:08.036 --> 0:14:10.236 minutes away. But you know, he did a lot, like 0:14:10.316 --> 0:14:13.196 he's a beast my dad. As a kid, I remember 0:14:13.316 --> 0:14:15.676 just like feeling cool, like to be able to say, well, 0:14:15.716 --> 0:14:17.756 I was born in California, Like there was just something 0:14:17.796 --> 0:14:18.956 cool about California. 0:14:19.036 --> 0:14:22.916 You know, do you remember the feeling when you came here? 0:14:23.436 --> 0:14:25.996 Well, no, I was six months old. Oh never mind, 0:14:27.916 --> 0:14:29.036 I remember no feeling. 0:14:29.396 --> 0:14:35.316 Never mind. Yeah, that'd be a small miracle, ya, No. 0:14:35.356 --> 0:14:38.236 I mean the first memory of San Francisco really was 0:14:38.276 --> 0:14:41.276 probably playing a gig there for the first time with 0:14:41.356 --> 0:14:44.516 my band Radish. You know, like in the nineties, I 0:14:44.516 --> 0:14:46.876 had this s grunge band. I was in high school. 0:14:47.636 --> 0:14:51.116 I was fifteen, and yeah, we went on tour. 0:14:51.716 --> 0:14:53.676 What was the origin of Radish, by the way. 0:14:53.716 --> 0:14:56.836 Yeah, the origin of Radish kind of goes back to 0:14:57.516 --> 0:15:00.196 me sitting at the piano and writing songs. Okay. So 0:15:01.116 --> 0:15:04.876 I always say the Beatles made me write songs and 0:15:04.996 --> 0:15:08.556 Nirvana made me start a band, and so I'll never forget. 0:15:09.516 --> 0:15:12.596 I was actually at the skating rink in Greenville, Texas, 0:15:13.396 --> 0:15:16.676 and smells like teen Spirit came on, and I remember 0:15:16.716 --> 0:15:19.236 exactly like where I was, like making this turn at 0:15:19.356 --> 0:15:22.316 one end of the skating the roller rink and I 0:15:22.396 --> 0:15:25.716 literally had to pull over and like hold onto the sidewalks. 0:15:25.716 --> 0:15:28.116 I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like this is 0:15:28.436 --> 0:15:31.636 the coolest music I've ever heard, And so I skated 0:15:31.716 --> 0:15:35.996 around a lap back to the DJ booth and I 0:15:36.036 --> 0:15:37.676 was like, what is this? And he pulled up the 0:15:37.716 --> 0:15:40.236 CD with the little baby on and the dollar bill. 0:15:40.476 --> 0:15:43.076 I was like, dude, this is band Ravana. It's really cool. 0:15:43.556 --> 0:15:45.036 I was like yeah, And so, like I went to 0:15:45.076 --> 0:15:47.156 the record store the next day and got that CD, 0:15:47.756 --> 0:15:48.956 and I was like, all right, well I need to 0:15:48.956 --> 0:15:52.396 start a band like this, you know, game over and 0:15:53.396 --> 0:15:56.956 I figured that all you need to have is three people. 0:15:57.036 --> 0:15:59.916 You know, bass, drums and guitar is the bare necessities. 0:15:59.916 --> 0:16:02.836 It's like, you know, every stool, every chair like needs 0:16:02.836 --> 0:16:05.236 a minimum of three legs. It's like, well, okay, rock band, 0:16:05.236 --> 0:16:08.916 it's kind of the same thing, and so I started, 0:16:09.916 --> 0:16:12.116 you know, in my town, there weren't a lot of musicians, 0:16:12.876 --> 0:16:15.556 but eventually I met a drummer and bass player who 0:16:15.556 --> 0:16:18.636 were great, and we had different band names, but eventually 0:16:18.676 --> 0:16:22.276 it became radish and so I got to kind of 0:16:22.276 --> 0:16:25.236 back up a little bit. So, you know, small town 0:16:25.316 --> 0:16:29.396 kid in Texas writing songs, how do you even you know, 0:16:29.516 --> 0:16:30.116 get out there? 0:16:30.236 --> 0:16:30.436 Right? 0:16:30.596 --> 0:16:35.596 And I started trying to get gigs. Literally, I'd look 0:16:35.596 --> 0:16:39.276 in the Yellow Pages and like look for places to play. 0:16:39.676 --> 0:16:43.716 In Greenville, Texas was a dry town, so there were 0:16:43.756 --> 0:16:46.796 like no clubs or bars. But I would call plays 0:16:46.916 --> 0:16:48.516 like the Bowling Alley and be like, hey, I got 0:16:48.516 --> 0:16:49.916 a band, can we come play? And They're like, no, 0:16:49.956 --> 0:16:52.516 we're a bowling alley or like Putt putt golf. Like 0:16:52.556 --> 0:16:54.756 I'm just trying to think of any place where like 0:16:54.796 --> 0:16:57.436 I could set up my band, you know, And eventually 0:16:57.516 --> 0:17:01.756 there was this pool hall called Chauncey's Place. And dude, 0:17:02.076 --> 0:17:05.236 I might have been like twelve or thirteen at this time, 0:17:05.276 --> 0:17:08.436 and I remember calling Chauncey. I would just cold call people. 0:17:08.476 --> 0:17:10.756 I mean, like I was little entrepreneur, dude, like at 0:17:10.796 --> 0:17:16.156 twelve and Chauncey himself picked up the phone. I was like, hey, 0:17:16.156 --> 0:17:18.876 my name's Ben. I got this band called Radish and 0:17:19.476 --> 0:17:21.476 we really would love to come play a gig. He's like, well, 0:17:21.556 --> 0:17:24.436 y'all any good. I'm like, yes, sir, we're really good. 0:17:25.156 --> 0:17:26.676 And I was like, in fact, I can play you 0:17:26.676 --> 0:17:30.356 a song right now over the phone. Oh way, and 0:17:30.396 --> 0:17:32.276 he kind of chuckled because he was like in his 0:17:32.316 --> 0:17:35.676 fifties or something. He's like yeah, He's like, okay, go ahead, 0:17:35.716 --> 0:17:37.036 you know what I mean, because he was just getting 0:17:37.036 --> 0:17:39.116 a kick out of this whole thing. And so, you know, 0:17:39.156 --> 0:17:41.596 old school like holding the phone between my shoulder and 0:17:41.636 --> 0:17:44.036 my ear, grabbed my guitar and I play him a 0:17:44.076 --> 0:17:47.036 song and he's like that is pretty good. All right. 0:17:47.116 --> 0:17:50.276 Next Thursday, you got your own gig, you know. And 0:17:50.356 --> 0:17:53.516 so that was our first concert. That was in nineteen 0:17:53.596 --> 0:17:57.316 ninety four. I still have the flyer wow for it. 0:17:57.476 --> 0:18:01.916 And so then eventually that led to gigs in Dallas 0:18:02.236 --> 0:18:04.756 and we started playing in the Dallas scene a lot. 0:18:04.796 --> 0:18:07.956 And in the nineties there's a neighborhood in Dallas called 0:18:07.996 --> 0:18:13.196 Deep Elam, which is iconic neighborhood for music, and in 0:18:13.236 --> 0:18:16.476 the nineties it was really a great place, a great scene, 0:18:16.476 --> 0:18:18.396 and I pretty much spent every weekend. As soon as 0:18:18.436 --> 0:18:20.756 I got my driver's license, I would just go there 0:18:20.996 --> 0:18:23.716 for the weekend, just like watch shows or play shows. 0:18:24.156 --> 0:18:26.916 Tripping Daisy the Toadies, like a lot of great bands 0:18:27.236 --> 0:18:28.756 were out of that scene. 0:18:28.516 --> 0:18:31.356 And Tripping Daisy was the precursor. 0:18:30.836 --> 0:18:34.756 To Polyphonic Spree, right, exactly amazing, And so you know, 0:18:34.796 --> 0:18:38.116 we started playing gigs. Now, Meanwhile, there's a really important 0:18:38.316 --> 0:18:41.636 part to my story because we didn't you know, it's 0:18:41.716 --> 0:18:44.796 like we didn't really know anyone in the music business 0:18:44.876 --> 0:18:48.196 except one person, and this person is so crucial to 0:18:48.236 --> 0:18:52.796 the story. So rewind back to the sixties. My dad's 0:18:52.796 --> 0:18:56.036 a drummer in high school and it's the high school 0:18:56.076 --> 0:19:00.196 talent show and my dad's band plays some cover songs 0:19:00.236 --> 0:19:03.716 or whatever, and then this kid gets up the next 0:19:03.756 --> 0:19:09.076 act and does an accordion a medleyon accordion of Beatles songs, 0:19:09.516 --> 0:19:12.076 and it's like incredible, and everyone's like, oh my god, 0:19:12.116 --> 0:19:14.236 that was Who is this guy? And so they went 0:19:14.436 --> 0:19:19.596 and introduced themselves. His name was Nils Nils Lofgren. So 0:19:19.676 --> 0:19:21.756 it turns out, you know, Nils Lofkin is one of 0:19:21.796 --> 0:19:24.596 the best guitar players of all time. He plays in 0:19:24.636 --> 0:19:27.676 the East Street Band with Springsteen. He has played with 0:19:27.716 --> 0:19:32.036 Neil Young, Crazy Horse like just such a legend. Also 0:19:32.956 --> 0:19:36.716 has an incredible catalog of solo records which I also 0:19:36.756 --> 0:19:41.796 grew up on with my dad playing those. So Grinn 0:19:42.076 --> 0:19:45.756 is like the coolest like garage rock band ever that 0:19:45.796 --> 0:19:50.596 no one knows so good. I'm so happy you mentioned that. 0:19:50.716 --> 0:19:53.316 Just made my heart. Loved the shine. So my dad 0:19:53.316 --> 0:19:57.036 and Nils became friends. My dad had the basement, so 0:19:57.076 --> 0:20:00.036 they started a new band called the Radical Five. They 0:20:00.036 --> 0:20:02.316 were also a trio, just three of them, but they 0:20:02.316 --> 0:20:05.316 thought that was cool, the Radical Five, but there's only 0:20:05.316 --> 0:20:07.476 three Like that was psychedelic, bro, you know what I mean. 0:20:07.996 --> 0:20:11.436 And so they would play my dad's basement. My dad 0:20:11.436 --> 0:20:13.876 would tell you, oh, well, I was never good enough 0:20:13.916 --> 0:20:16.076 as a musician to really do music, so he and 0:20:16.116 --> 0:20:18.756 he always had this thing for being a doctor and 0:20:19.316 --> 0:20:21.996 went on to do that. But Nills and my dad 0:20:21.996 --> 0:20:25.596 stayed in touch through the years, and so like, whenever 0:20:25.716 --> 0:20:28.276 Nils would come through town, we would always go and 0:20:28.276 --> 0:20:30.956 see him in Dallas, and so like my first concert 0:20:31.036 --> 0:20:34.036 was Bruce Springsteen in the East Street Band, born in 0:20:34.076 --> 0:20:38.156 the USA Tour nineteen eighty five Reunion Arena, Dallas, Texas, 0:20:38.156 --> 0:20:42.836 Like holy shit, wow, you know. And so Nils was 0:20:42.956 --> 0:20:45.556 like my contact, like he you know what I mean, 0:20:45.596 --> 0:20:47.796 Like he was like, Okay, this is someone who's doing 0:20:47.916 --> 0:20:49.676 the thing that like I want to do. And so 0:20:50.036 --> 0:20:53.116 ever since that first song I wrote when I was eight, 0:20:54.076 --> 0:20:56.956 I would make little cassettes and send them to Nils, 0:20:56.996 --> 0:20:59.516 you know, and just be like Nils like, check out 0:20:59.556 --> 0:21:01.436 you know these songs I'm writing. And he was always 0:21:01.436 --> 0:21:03.156 so sweet, you know. I'd call him and be like 0:21:03.156 --> 0:21:04.796 what do you think. He's like, oh, it's great, Ben, 0:21:04.916 --> 0:21:06.876 Just like keep doing it, keep writing, you know what 0:21:06.956 --> 0:21:10.956 I mean. Yeah, So fast forward back to the nineties. 0:21:11.156 --> 0:21:15.076