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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, this is Justin Richmond from the Broken Record podcast.

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Speaker 1: Join me this June for a live taping of Broken

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Speaker 1: Record at the Tribeca Festival. We're all bee in conversation

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Speaker 1: with Infinity Song, a New York based soft rock band

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Speaker 1: comprised of four siblings who will also be doing a

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Speaker 1: couple of songs for us. You'll hear the artist and

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Speaker 1: a career spanning conversation about their inspirations and dynamic styles.

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Speaker 1: We'll be at the SVA Theater on June twelve at

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Speaker 1: eight thirty pm. Defund tickets. Visit tribecafilm dot com slash

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Speaker 1: Broken Record all lowercase. That's tribecafilm dot com slash Broken Record.

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Speaker 1: Hope to see there. For close to three decades, Benkqueler's

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Speaker 1: been crafting deeply personal indie rock that's both intimate and expansive,

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Speaker 1: from his early days fronting the band Radish as a

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Speaker 1: teenager in the nineties to his acclaimed solo career that

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Speaker 1: began in the early two thousands, He's consistently delivered songs

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Speaker 1: that feel raw, honest, and almost conversational. But his latest album,

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Speaker 1: Covered the Mirrors finds Ben in a different place entirely.

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Speaker 1: This isn't just another collection of songs. It's an unflinching

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Speaker 1: examination of grief, healing, and the complicated process of moving

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Speaker 1: forward after unimaginable loss. In today's episode, we'll talk with

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Speaker 1: Ben about the loss of his teenage son Dorian, how

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Speaker 1: Ben and his family embraced grief and managed to not

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Speaker 1: retreat from their lives and work, and what it means

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Speaker 1: to return to making and releasing music. We'll also talk

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Speaker 1: about Ben's journey through the music industry, from bidding wars

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Speaker 1: with his first band that led to him performing for

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Speaker 1: idols like Tom Petty at a private party in Malibu,

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Speaker 1: to going independent and moving to his ranch in Texas.

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Speaker 1: This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. This episode

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Speaker 1: is brought to you by Defender, a vehicle engineered to

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Speaker 1: meet challenges head on so you can explore with confidence.

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Speaker 1: Adventure Seekers and takers can explore the full Defender lineup

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Speaker 1: at land ROVERUSA dot com. Here's my conversation with Ben

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Speaker 1: Queler from his ranch outside of Austin. It's like amazing

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Speaker 1: to be you have a beautiful spot.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's in a beautiful part of the country. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's beautiful. This bactual physical space we're in.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah. This barn was actually moved here from

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Speaker 2: Fourth and Lavaca in downtown Austin. It was part of

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Speaker 2: the Missouri Pacific Railroad station in the eighteen eighties and

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Speaker 2: it was moved here in the nineteen eighties as just

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Speaker 2: a horse barn. But it was like four of these

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Speaker 2: long classic Texas hill country story. It was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: four of these long and there were four brothers and

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Speaker 2: each brother got a quarter of the barn. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like it's like that kind of thing. I don't

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Speaker 2: know where the other sections are, like if they are

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Speaker 2: still around or what, but.

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Speaker 1: Be interesting to track down if it's possible.

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Speaker 2: Exactly you know it was here on this property is

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Speaker 2: just a horse barn. This front wall over here was

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Speaker 2: just wide open to the elements. And so when we

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Speaker 2: moved to this property, we just used it just as

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Speaker 2: you know, bicycles and punching bags and kids would our

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Speaker 2: boys would skateboard in here, and so it was just

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Speaker 2: like a just a gnarly garage space. And then last

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Speaker 2: year we decided to renovate it and really turn it

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Speaker 2: into a studio. So we put a front wall on it.

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Speaker 1: This is only a year's worth of work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it took about a year. Yeah, And a lot

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Speaker 2: of this wood is old wood, and you know, you

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Speaker 2: can see the old and the new kind of feathered

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Speaker 2: in together. And then these huge columns, the blue columns.

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Speaker 2: There's six of those, so that's like the original structure.

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Speaker 1: I like the old and the new mixtent though, and

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Speaker 1: I also like that, you know, it's all just everything's

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Speaker 1: in flux, you know.

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Speaker 2: And I just love thinking about, like all the energy

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Speaker 2: of the people that have come and gone through this

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Speaker 2: building on a train.

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Speaker 1: It's very fun to imagine that stuff. You know, you

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Speaker 1: can just sit and think about it forever. I'll never

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Speaker 1: crack it, but now just can only all you can

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Speaker 1: do is imagine.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 1: Do you know why this was moved here in eighty one?

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Speaker 2: Well, so the ranch originally was the hurl Butt Ranch.

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Speaker 2: There's a really famous Central Texas family, the hurl Butts.

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Speaker 2: So this was originally like thousands of acres back in

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Speaker 2: the day. And in fact, the first Willie Nelson's picnic

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Speaker 2: was out here about a mile down the road, but

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Speaker 2: on the hurl Butt ranch.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Because they were friends the hurl Butts and Willie and

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Speaker 2: so there's a lot of history on this land. When

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Speaker 2: we found this property was twenty fifteen and it just

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Speaker 2: sat on the market for a year and no one

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Speaker 2: really wanted it. We were in the middle of a drought,

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Speaker 2: and we always kind of had that My wife and

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Speaker 2: I had that dream search of like okay, we want

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Speaker 2: like some acreage, an old house, and some water, natural water.

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Speaker 2: And this came up and we kind of watched it,

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Speaker 2: and but it was really far away from Austin. We

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Speaker 2: were living downtown Austin at the time. And we came

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Speaker 2: and looked looked at the property and it was so cool,

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Speaker 2: like but it was one of those things where every

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Speaker 2: structure on the property was worse than the next and

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Speaker 2: so like it was just like it needed so much work.

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Speaker 2: Windows were busted in the main house. There were deer

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Speaker 2: living inside like animals. Like it was gnarly. It was

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Speaker 2: like a ghost house, but you could tell it was

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Speaker 2: really cool, you know, like if you just put some

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Speaker 2: love into it. Bones it had good bones, exactly, And

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Speaker 2: so we went for it. And we originally didn't think

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Speaker 2: we would live here. We just knew we wanted to

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Speaker 2: have a creative space, you know, recording music, making art,

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Speaker 2: a little retreat type vibe. And the more we came

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Speaker 2: out here and the more we realized that, well, we

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Speaker 2: don't really have a nine to five job, you know,

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Speaker 2: we can kind of be anywhere. We were like, let's

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Speaker 2: just move full time. So in twenty eighteen we moved

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Speaker 2: to the main house, which I'll walk you over there

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Speaker 2: in a little while, and we just loved it. We

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Speaker 2: loved being out in the country. We're about forty five

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Speaker 2: minutes west of Austin, and yeah, I just I can't

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Speaker 2: imagine not living where I do. And I think also

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Speaker 2: just you know, being a touring artist, you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: always in cities, just like all the time, and so

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Speaker 2: it really is fun to land at the airport and

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Speaker 2: in an hour, I'm back here with the trees and

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Speaker 2: the sky and the birds and now the studio.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and your whole life is kind of an odd

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Speaker 1: mix of urban in country totally. Oh yeah, it is.

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Speaker 2: I'm a little bit of this, a little bit of that,

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Speaker 2: you know. That's always and you know, my mom always

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Speaker 2: said it was because I'm a Gemini, because she's all

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Speaker 2: into that stuff astrology and geminized the twins, and so

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Speaker 2: we were really good at seeing both sides of every coin.

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Speaker 2: And my wife Liz a libro, which is the balance.

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Speaker 2: So we actually work really well together, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we hardly fight because we kind of just like see

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Speaker 2: each other's point of view really easily, which is nice.

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Speaker 2: But I just remember that I didn't really answer your question.

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Speaker 2: So why was this bar moved here? So it was

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Speaker 2: the hurl Butt ranch and it was just land. And

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty one, this local legend, Bobby Stevens, bought

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Speaker 2: this parcel of land, which is thirty acres because the

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Speaker 2: hurl Butt family eventually, like you know, divvied it up

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Speaker 2: and who knows what happened, you know, thousands of acres

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Speaker 2: became just little plots. So Bobby Stevens bought this ranch

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Speaker 2: thirty acres and he was driving in Austin and saw

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Speaker 2: wrecking ball about to knock over this Victorian house. So

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Speaker 2: he jumped out of his pickup truck nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 2: was like, yo, what are you guys doing with that

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Speaker 2: wrecking ball? And they said, oh, well the bank, the

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Speaker 2: bank needs it gone by six pm, you know, and

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Speaker 2: and Bobby was like, well, can I have it? Like

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Speaker 2: it's a house, you know. He's like, can I have it?

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Speaker 2: And they were like, well, if you give us, you know,

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Speaker 2: a thousand bucks, sure, and so he was like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I'll be right back. And so he gave him a

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Speaker 2: thousand bucks, chain saw down the center of the house,

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Speaker 2: put it on two flatbed trailers and moved it out here.

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Speaker 2: So the house was moved here from West sixth Street

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Speaker 2: in Austin.

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Speaker 1: And on did he do that all in the four

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Speaker 1: to six pms?

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Speaker 2: Like pretty much? He at least got it off the property. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Like this guy Bobby can do anything, Like he is

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Speaker 2: just the epitome of like can fix anything and just

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Speaker 2: has that drive and determination, you know. So he moved

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Speaker 2: the house here and he lived here for a long time.

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Speaker 2: And then shortly after they found this barn you know,

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Speaker 2: from the railroad station and moved it here. And then

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Speaker 2: there's a little house on the other end of the property,

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Speaker 2: which we call the Happy House, which is where the

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Speaker 2: band stays when we're rehearsing or if I'm producing an album,

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Speaker 2: the artist has lodging and that was moved here from Austin,

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Speaker 2: which is actually even crazier because it's from the Zilker

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Speaker 2: neighborhood like a block away from where my family lived

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Speaker 2: in Austin. So when we saw this property, we're just like, what,

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Speaker 2: like that place is from Zilker And there were just

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Speaker 2: so many little signs you know that's just pointed to

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Speaker 2: this being home for us.

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Speaker 1: That's great. Are you a person that's always looked for

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Speaker 1: signs and things to know what.

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Speaker 2: The ve always I've always been aware of them and

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Speaker 2: felt energies from things that happen and numbers and patterns,

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Speaker 2: and I mean, gosh, I guess actually going back now

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Speaker 2: that I think about it, to the way I started

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Speaker 2: writing songs when I was about eight, just like every

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Speaker 2: other American kid, I learned heart and soul. Someone showed

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Speaker 2: me how to play it dunda dun da dun da

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Speaker 2: dun da dud d dante and that just repeats. And

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Speaker 2: so I noticed, like, okay, well it's in the key

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Speaker 2: of C, which I didn't know at the time, but

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Speaker 2: I'm just seeing the white keys and you play this chord,

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Speaker 2: you skip one, go down, play the next one, skip one,

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Speaker 2: go down, play the next one, and go up one.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm like, okay, I see that pattern. And

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Speaker 2: I said, well, what if you don't play the second chord,

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Speaker 2: you go from the first chord to the third chord

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Speaker 2: and then up to the second chord and then the

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Speaker 2: fourth chord. And that sounded like let it be because

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Speaker 2: I was a big Beatles fan because my dad, that's

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Speaker 2: all he played was the Beadles and Hendrix and the Hollies,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of British invasion rock and roll. That's

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Speaker 2: what I grew up on. And so I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 2: so let it be is heart and soul, kind of

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Speaker 2: inside out. So then I was like, all right, dude,

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Speaker 2: well skip the second and third chord. Let's go from

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Speaker 2: the first chord to the fourth chord, then the second chord,

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Speaker 2: then the third chord. And that sounded like a progression

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Speaker 2: I'd never heard before. Meanwhile, there's thousands of songs with

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Speaker 2: that progression, you know. But at eight years old, I

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Speaker 2: was like, wow, this is incredible. And so I wrote

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Speaker 2: my first song, and I would just sing about girls

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Speaker 2: in love because that's what the Beatles sing about. So

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you write love songs. I guess that's what

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Speaker 2: you do. You know, That's all I knew. And so

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Speaker 2: that's how it started. And so you know, I'm very

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Speaker 2: visually inclined. But yeah, signs are you know, I've always

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Speaker 2: sort of felt them and seen a little deeper, I

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Speaker 2: guess than what's there. I'm really curious person. I like

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Speaker 2: to know how things work. I like to kind of

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Speaker 2: peek behind the curtain and really know about life and

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Speaker 2: what the hell is all this? You know. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's not a very novel thing to say, but that's

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Speaker 2: just kind of who I am.

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Speaker 1: That's still essential to who you are.

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Speaker 2: And then like from a spiritual level, like I've always

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Speaker 2: just sort of been fascinated about like what's beyond, you know,

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Speaker 2: what is out around us that I don't see?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you were raised Jewish, right, Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: were born in.

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Speaker 2: San Francisco, born in San fran.

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Speaker 1: And then reared in Texas.

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Speaker 2: Reared in Texas.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't really know you were born in San

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Speaker 1: fran But once I learned that, there was a lot

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Speaker 1: about you that makes a little more sense, okay, in

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Speaker 1: the way that like that, like well even just your

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Speaker 1: dad raising listening to British Invasion music primarily, and you

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Speaker 1: can hear a lot of that in totally what you

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Speaker 1: do for sure, And so would seem to me being

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Speaker 1: raised in the Jewish faith in San Francisco at easier

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Speaker 1: than out here in Texas.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean we were the only Jewish family

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Speaker 2: in Greenville, which is a small town that we moved to,

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Speaker 2: and so yeah, I definitely, like, you know, remember hanging

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Speaker 2: out with kids who were like, you're going to go

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Speaker 2: to Hell? And I'm like, really, like what's hell all about? Like,

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Speaker 2: you know, because we didn't really you don't really talk

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Speaker 2: much about Hell in Judaism. But yeah, we left San

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Speaker 2: francisc go when I was six months old. My dad's

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Speaker 2: a doctor. He did his residency in San fran and

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Speaker 2: I was born there and he was part of the

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Speaker 2: Rural Health Service, which back in the late seventies early eighties,

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Speaker 2: the government would help pay for medical school as long

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Speaker 2: as you served in a rural community after medical school.

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Speaker 2: So he did his residency in San Fran and he

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Speaker 2: would get all these offers like, hey, there's a town

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Speaker 2: in Ohio or Pennsylvania, are you interested in that? And

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Speaker 2: then one came along it's like there's a town in

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Speaker 2: Texas that's never had a doctor. And my dad was

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Speaker 2: like that sounds cool, like you know, the wild West

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Speaker 2: or something, and so they came to Texas. I was

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Speaker 2: six months old, so he was doc like. He was

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Speaker 2: just like everyone's doctor, pediatrics, geriatrics, calm and cold, like

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Speaker 2: even like minor surgeries.

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Speaker 1: If need be, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think they would for deliveries. They would at

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Speaker 2: least go to the hospital, which is like forty five

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Speaker 2: minutes away. But you know, he did a lot, like

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Speaker 2: he's a beast my dad. As a kid, I remember

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Speaker 2: just like feeling cool, like to be able to say, well,

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Speaker 2: I was born in California, Like there was just something

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Speaker 2: cool about California.

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Speaker 1: You know, do you remember the feeling when you came here?

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Speaker 2: Well, no, I was six months old. Oh never mind,

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Speaker 2: I remember no feeling.

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Speaker 1: Never mind. Yeah, that'd be a small miracle, ya, No.

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Speaker 2: I mean the first memory of San Francisco really was

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Speaker 2: probably playing a gig there for the first time with

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Speaker 2: my band Radish. You know, like in the nineties, I

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Speaker 2: had this s grunge band. I was in high school.

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Speaker 2: I was fifteen, and yeah, we went on tour.

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Speaker 1: What was the origin of Radish, by the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the origin of Radish kind of goes back to

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Speaker 2: me sitting at the piano and writing songs. Okay. So

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Speaker 2: I always say the Beatles made me write songs and

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Speaker 2: Nirvana made me start a band, and so I'll never forget.

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Speaker 2: I was actually at the skating rink in Greenville, Texas,

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Speaker 2: and smells like teen Spirit came on, and I remember

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Speaker 2: exactly like where I was, like making this turn at

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Speaker 2: one end of the skating the roller rink and I

288
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Speaker 2: literally had to pull over and like hold onto the sidewalks.

289
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Speaker 2: I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like this is

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Speaker 2: the coolest music I've ever heard, And so I skated

291
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Speaker 2: around a lap back to the DJ booth and I

292
00:15:36,036 --> 00:15:37,676
Speaker 2: was like, what is this? And he pulled up the

293
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Speaker 2: CD with the little baby on and the dollar bill.

294
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Speaker 2: I was like, dude, this is band Ravana. It's really cool.

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Speaker 2: I was like yeah, And so, like I went to

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Speaker 2: the record store the next day and got that CD,

297
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Speaker 2: and I was like, all right, well I need to

298
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Speaker 2: start a band like this, you know, game over and

299
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Speaker 2: I figured that all you need to have is three people.

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Speaker 2: You know, bass, drums and guitar is the bare necessities.

301
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Speaker 2: It's like, you know, every stool, every chair like needs

302
00:16:02,836 --> 00:16:05,236
Speaker 2: a minimum of three legs. It's like, well, okay, rock band,

303
00:16:05,236 --> 00:16:08,916
Speaker 2: it's kind of the same thing, and so I started,

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Speaker 2: you know, in my town, there weren't a lot of musicians,

305
00:16:12,876 --> 00:16:15,556
Speaker 2: but eventually I met a drummer and bass player who

306
00:16:15,556 --> 00:16:18,636
Speaker 2: were great, and we had different band names, but eventually

307
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Speaker 2: it became radish and so I got to kind of

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Speaker 2: back up a little bit. So, you know, small town

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Speaker 2: kid in Texas writing songs, how do you even you know,

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Speaker 2: get out there?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: And I started trying to get gigs. Literally, I'd look

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Speaker 2: in the Yellow Pages and like look for places to play.

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Speaker 2: In Greenville, Texas was a dry town, so there were

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Speaker 2: like no clubs or bars. But I would call plays

316
00:16:46,916 --> 00:16:48,516
Speaker 2: like the Bowling Alley and be like, hey, I got

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00:16:48,516 --> 00:16:49,916
Speaker 2: a band, can we come play? And They're like, no,

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Speaker 2: we're a bowling alley or like Putt putt golf. Like

319
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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to think of any place where like

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Speaker 2: I could set up my band, you know, And eventually

321
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Speaker 2: there was this pool hall called Chauncey's Place. And dude,

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Speaker 2: I might have been like twelve or thirteen at this time,

323
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Speaker 2: and I remember calling Chauncey. I would just cold call people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like I was little entrepreneur, dude, like at

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Speaker 2: twelve and Chauncey himself picked up the phone. I was like, hey,

326
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Speaker 2: my name's Ben. I got this band called Radish and

327
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Speaker 2: we really would love to come play a gig. He's like, well,

328
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Speaker 2: y'all any good. I'm like, yes, sir, we're really good.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, in fact, I can play you

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Speaker 2: a song right now over the phone. Oh way, and

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Speaker 2: he kind of chuckled because he was like in his

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Speaker 2: fifties or something. He's like yeah, He's like, okay, go ahead,

333
00:17:35,716 --> 00:17:37,036
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, because he was just getting

334
00:17:37,036 --> 00:17:39,116
Speaker 2: a kick out of this whole thing. And so, you know,

335
00:17:39,156 --> 00:17:41,596
Speaker 2: old school like holding the phone between my shoulder and

336
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Speaker 2: my ear, grabbed my guitar and I play him a

337
00:17:44,076 --> 00:17:47,036
Speaker 2: song and he's like that is pretty good. All right.

338
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Speaker 2: Next Thursday, you got your own gig, you know. And

339
00:17:50,356 --> 00:17:53,516
Speaker 2: so that was our first concert. That was in nineteen

340
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Speaker 2: ninety four. I still have the flyer wow for it.

341
00:17:57,476 --> 00:18:01,916
Speaker 2: And so then eventually that led to gigs in Dallas

342
00:18:02,236 --> 00:18:04,756
Speaker 2: and we started playing in the Dallas scene a lot.

343
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Speaker 2: And in the nineties there's a neighborhood in Dallas called

344
00:18:07,996 --> 00:18:13,196
Speaker 2: Deep Elam, which is iconic neighborhood for music, and in

345
00:18:13,236 --> 00:18:16,476
Speaker 2: the nineties it was really a great place, a great scene,

346
00:18:16,476 --> 00:18:18,396
Speaker 2: and I pretty much spent every weekend. As soon as

347
00:18:18,436 --> 00:18:20,756
Speaker 2: I got my driver's license, I would just go there

348
00:18:20,996 --> 00:18:23,716
Speaker 2: for the weekend, just like watch shows or play shows.

349
00:18:24,156 --> 00:18:26,916
Speaker 2: Tripping Daisy the Toadies, like a lot of great bands

350
00:18:27,236 --> 00:18:28,756
Speaker 2: were out of that scene.

351
00:18:28,516 --> 00:18:31,356
Speaker 1: And Tripping Daisy was the precursor.

352
00:18:30,836 --> 00:18:34,756
Speaker 2: To Polyphonic Spree, right, exactly amazing, And so you know,

353
00:18:34,796 --> 00:18:38,116
Speaker 2: we started playing gigs. Now, Meanwhile, there's a really important

354
00:18:38,316 --> 00:18:41,636
Speaker 2: part to my story because we didn't you know, it's

355
00:18:41,716 --> 00:18:44,796
Speaker 2: like we didn't really know anyone in the music business

356
00:18:44,876 --> 00:18:48,196
Speaker 2: except one person, and this person is so crucial to

357
00:18:48,236 --> 00:18:52,796
Speaker 2: the story. So rewind back to the sixties. My dad's

358
00:18:52,796 --> 00:18:56,036
Speaker 2: a drummer in high school and it's the high school

359
00:18:56,076 --> 00:19:00,196
Speaker 2: talent show and my dad's band plays some cover songs

360
00:19:00,236 --> 00:19:03,716
Speaker 2: or whatever, and then this kid gets up the next

361
00:19:03,756 --> 00:19:09,076
Speaker 2: act and does an accordion a medleyon accordion of Beatles songs,

362
00:19:09,516 --> 00:19:12,076
Speaker 2: and it's like incredible, and everyone's like, oh my god,

363
00:19:12,116 --> 00:19:14,236
Speaker 2: that was Who is this guy? And so they went

364
00:19:14,436 --> 00:19:19,596
Speaker 2: and introduced themselves. His name was Nils Nils Lofgren. So

365
00:19:19,676 --> 00:19:21,756
Speaker 2: it turns out, you know, Nils Lofkin is one of

366
00:19:21,796 --> 00:19:24,596
Speaker 2: the best guitar players of all time. He plays in

367
00:19:24,636 --> 00:19:27,676
Speaker 2: the East Street Band with Springsteen. He has played with

368
00:19:27,716 --> 00:19:32,036
Speaker 2: Neil Young, Crazy Horse like just such a legend. Also

369
00:19:32,956 --> 00:19:36,716
Speaker 2: has an incredible catalog of solo records which I also

370
00:19:36,756 --> 00:19:41,796
Speaker 2: grew up on with my dad playing those. So Grinn

371
00:19:42,076 --> 00:19:45,756
Speaker 2: is like the coolest like garage rock band ever that

372
00:19:45,796 --> 00:19:50,596
Speaker 2: no one knows so good. I'm so happy you mentioned that.

373
00:19:50,716 --> 00:19:53,316
Speaker 2: Just made my heart. Loved the shine. So my dad

374
00:19:53,316 --> 00:19:57,036
Speaker 2: and Nils became friends. My dad had the basement, so

375
00:19:57,076 --> 00:20:00,036
Speaker 2: they started a new band called the Radical Five. They

376
00:20:00,036 --> 00:20:02,316
Speaker 2: were also a trio, just three of them, but they

377
00:20:02,316 --> 00:20:05,316
Speaker 2: thought that was cool, the Radical Five, but there's only

378
00:20:05,316 --> 00:20:07,476
Speaker 2: three Like that was psychedelic, bro, you know what I mean.

379
00:20:07,996 --> 00:20:11,436
Speaker 2: And so they would play my dad's basement. My dad

380
00:20:11,436 --> 00:20:13,876
Speaker 2: would tell you, oh, well, I was never good enough

381
00:20:13,916 --> 00:20:16,076
Speaker 2: as a musician to really do music, so he and

382
00:20:16,116 --> 00:20:18,756
Speaker 2: he always had this thing for being a doctor and

383
00:20:19,316 --> 00:20:21,996
Speaker 2: went on to do that. But Nills and my dad

384
00:20:21,996 --> 00:20:25,596
Speaker 2: stayed in touch through the years, and so like, whenever

385
00:20:25,716 --> 00:20:28,276
Speaker 2: Nils would come through town, we would always go and

386
00:20:28,276 --> 00:20:30,956
Speaker 2: see him in Dallas, and so like my first concert

387
00:20:31,036 --> 00:20:34,036
Speaker 2: was Bruce Springsteen in the East Street Band, born in

388
00:20:34,076 --> 00:20:38,156
Speaker 2: the USA Tour nineteen eighty five Reunion Arena, Dallas, Texas,

389
00:20:38,156 --> 00:20:42,836
Speaker 2: Like holy shit, wow, you know. And so Nils was

390
00:20:42,956 --> 00:20:45,556
Speaker 2: like my contact, like he you know what I mean,

391
00:20:45,596 --> 00:20:47,796
Speaker 2: Like he was like, Okay, this is someone who's doing

392
00:20:47,916 --> 00:20:49,676
Speaker 2: the thing that like I want to do. And so

393
00:20:50,036 --> 00:20:53,116
Speaker 2: ever since that first song I wrote when I was eight,

394
00:20:54,076 --> 00:20:56,956
Speaker 2: I would make little cassettes and send them to Nils,

395
00:20:56,996 --> 00:20:59,516
Speaker 2: you know, and just be like Nils like, check out

396
00:20:59,556 --> 00:21:01,436
Speaker 2: you know these songs I'm writing. And he was always

397
00:21:01,436 --> 00:21:03,156
Speaker 2: so sweet, you know. I'd call him and be like

398
00:21:03,156 --> 00:21:04,796
Speaker 2: what do you think. He's like, oh, it's great, Ben,

399
00:21:04,916 --> 00:21:06,876
Speaker 2: Just like keep doing it, keep writing, you know what

400
00:21:06,956 --> 00:21:10,956
Speaker 2: I mean. Yeah, So fast forward back to the nineties.

401
00:21:11,156 --> 00:21:15,076
Speaker 2: Deep LM. Radish is getting more serious. We're playing gigs,

402
00:21:15,516 --> 00:21:19,556
Speaker 2: doing the whole thing. We did make like a cassette EP.

403
00:21:20,116 --> 00:21:23,476
Speaker 2: And then CD became a thing that you could do

404
00:21:23,956 --> 00:21:27,756
Speaker 2: like yourself, you know, like it became possible to duplicate

405
00:21:27,836 --> 00:21:30,116
Speaker 2: like you know, five hundred or one thousand CDs like

406
00:21:30,116 --> 00:21:31,756
Speaker 2: that was the thing. It was kind of expensive, but

407
00:21:31,796 --> 00:21:35,156
Speaker 2: it was attainable. So we saved up money and we

408
00:21:35,476 --> 00:21:38,516
Speaker 2: pressed our first CD, and so of course I sent

409
00:21:38,556 --> 00:21:43,276
Speaker 2: it to Nils and I guess it was on his

410
00:21:43,396 --> 00:21:47,076
Speaker 2: coffee table. He was making an album at the time,

411
00:21:47,356 --> 00:21:50,156
Speaker 2: and the producer was walking by, you know, through the

412
00:21:50,156 --> 00:21:52,036
Speaker 2: living room and was like, oh, what's the CD? And

413
00:21:52,076 --> 00:21:54,196
Speaker 2: he picks it up and the photo of the CD

414
00:21:54,356 --> 00:21:56,516
Speaker 2: was like three young kids behind bars, Like we thought

415
00:21:56,556 --> 00:22:00,356
Speaker 2: that would be a cool album cover. Yeah, we're tough,

416
00:22:00,476 --> 00:22:04,356
Speaker 2: you know, rawdug. So he's like, who are these kids?

417
00:22:04,396 --> 00:22:07,236
Speaker 2: And Nil said, oh, well, that's my friend's son's band,

418
00:22:07,716 --> 00:22:10,996
Speaker 2: you know. And this producer put it on and really

419
00:22:11,116 --> 00:22:13,636
Speaker 2: liked it. And so then we get a phone call

420
00:22:13,676 --> 00:22:14,356
Speaker 2: at my house.

421
00:22:15,276 --> 00:22:16,276
Speaker 1: Who wasn't the god you know.

422
00:22:16,356 --> 00:22:21,236
Speaker 2: His name is Roger Greenawaltz, an extremely talented producer, probably

423
00:22:21,276 --> 00:22:24,076
Speaker 2: one of them I've had many mentors, you know. Roger

424
00:22:24,196 --> 00:22:27,836
Speaker 2: is up there with Nils like in like, well, he

425
00:22:27,916 --> 00:22:29,916
Speaker 2: calls and says, hey, can I speak to Ben? And

426
00:22:29,916 --> 00:22:32,516
Speaker 2: so my parents are like, oh, yeah, sure, who is

427
00:22:32,556 --> 00:22:34,516
Speaker 2: this though, you know, and he's like, well, I'm working

428
00:22:34,516 --> 00:22:36,916
Speaker 2: with Nils so and they're like okay. So I speak

429
00:22:36,956 --> 00:22:39,996
Speaker 2: to Roger and he says, hi, Ben, And he had

430
00:22:40,076 --> 00:22:43,396
Speaker 2: kind of this you know, grandiose voice was really cool

431
00:22:43,556 --> 00:22:45,676
Speaker 2: for me. But being a small town kid. I was like, whoa,

432
00:22:45,716 --> 00:22:49,036
Speaker 2: this is crazy. He's like, Hi, I'm Roger Greenawalt and

433
00:22:49,636 --> 00:22:53,316
Speaker 2: I'm producing Nils Lofgren right now, and I just heard

434
00:22:53,356 --> 00:22:55,636
Speaker 2: your CD and there's this song that I really love.

435
00:22:55,996 --> 00:22:58,676
Speaker 2: I want to come to Texas. I want to rehearse

436
00:22:58,716 --> 00:23:01,436
Speaker 2: your band. We're going to record a three song demo

437
00:23:01,556 --> 00:23:04,756
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna shop it around to major label record companies.

438
00:23:05,956 --> 00:23:09,796
Speaker 2: And I'm probably fourteen right now, and so I'm like, Okay,

439
00:23:09,996 --> 00:23:12,796
Speaker 2: I'm thinking to myself, I have no idea what the

440
00:23:12,836 --> 00:23:15,356
Speaker 2: fuck you just said, but sign me up, because like

441
00:23:15,516 --> 00:23:18,396
Speaker 2: this sounds like the best thing. This is exactly I

442
00:23:18,396 --> 00:23:20,316
Speaker 2: want to leave school, Like I want to play music.

443
00:23:20,396 --> 00:23:23,356
Speaker 2: This is it, you know. So Roger came to Texas

444
00:23:23,396 --> 00:23:26,396
Speaker 2: like during spring break or something, and we rehearsed every day,

445
00:23:26,156 --> 00:23:28,036
Speaker 2: and he would tell the three of us, He's like,

446
00:23:28,076 --> 00:23:30,596
Speaker 2: I'm taking you guys to art school right now. So

447
00:23:30,676 --> 00:23:34,236
Speaker 2: it's like the first time we ever worked with anyone

448
00:23:34,316 --> 00:23:38,596
Speaker 2: with you know, any kind of producer. And so he

449
00:23:38,636 --> 00:23:40,876
Speaker 2: would do things like one day, he'd walk in one

450
00:23:40,916 --> 00:23:43,916
Speaker 2: day and be like, Okay, today, John the drummer, he'd

451
00:23:43,956 --> 00:23:46,076
Speaker 2: be like, all right, we're gonna remove the rack Tom

452
00:23:46,076 --> 00:23:49,116
Speaker 2: on the floor. Tom, you don't get any symbols. All

453
00:23:49,156 --> 00:23:51,196
Speaker 2: you get is snare kick and high hat and so

454
00:23:51,316 --> 00:23:53,236
Speaker 2: like the whole day, that's all you get to work with.

455
00:23:53,636 --> 00:23:55,836
Speaker 2: He would do things like limiting us, you know, and

456
00:23:55,876 --> 00:23:58,556
Speaker 2: like taking away and just teaching us. And then as

457
00:23:58,596 --> 00:24:00,876
Speaker 2: far as songwriting, you know, he taught me what the

458
00:24:00,916 --> 00:24:03,676
Speaker 2: relative minor is, which is a whole concept. You know,

459
00:24:03,716 --> 00:24:06,116
Speaker 2: if you're in the key of C major, the relative

460
00:24:06,156 --> 00:24:08,996
Speaker 2: minor is a minor, which is that second chord and

461
00:24:09,196 --> 00:24:11,876
Speaker 2: heart and soul. So like I already knew what I

462
00:24:11,916 --> 00:24:13,396
Speaker 2: was here. I could hear it all, but I didn't

463
00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:14,956
Speaker 2: know how to put it to words and so like

464
00:24:15,036 --> 00:24:17,876
Speaker 2: things like that. So anyway, we recorded this three three

465
00:24:17,916 --> 00:24:22,196
Speaker 2: song demo and he starts sending it around and before

466
00:24:22,236 --> 00:24:24,876
Speaker 2: you know it, like the phone starts ringing off the

467
00:24:24,876 --> 00:24:29,196
Speaker 2: hook at my parents' house and it's like all these

468
00:24:29,236 --> 00:24:34,796
Speaker 2: major label record companies and so then you know, they

469
00:24:34,836 --> 00:24:37,596
Speaker 2: loved the demo. They're like, well, but we hear he's

470
00:24:37,636 --> 00:24:39,716
Speaker 2: really young, you know, like we got to see if

471
00:24:39,716 --> 00:24:41,756
Speaker 2: he can really perform. And so then we had to

472
00:24:41,756 --> 00:24:43,836
Speaker 2: go do the showcase, which is like this is like

473
00:24:43,916 --> 00:24:46,596
Speaker 2: some classic nineties shit that I'm talking about right now

474
00:24:46,756 --> 00:24:48,836
Speaker 2: because this is like so many people did this formula,

475
00:24:48,996 --> 00:24:51,356
Speaker 2: you know, but it actually worked for my band, which

476
00:24:51,396 --> 00:24:53,956
Speaker 2: is kind of nuts to think about. So we went

477
00:24:53,996 --> 00:24:57,316
Speaker 2: to New York and we did three shows. It was insane.

478
00:24:57,956 --> 00:25:01,996
Speaker 2: Friday night was at CBGB's and so like my first

479
00:25:02,036 --> 00:25:04,596
Speaker 2: gig in New York, you know, outside of Texas was

480
00:25:04,636 --> 00:25:11,956
Speaker 2: at CBGB's, and Saturday night was at Coney Island High,

481
00:25:11,996 --> 00:25:14,916
Speaker 2: which I don't think is there anymore, and then Sunday

482
00:25:14,996 --> 00:25:17,156
Speaker 2: was at Don Hills, which I'm not sure if that's

483
00:25:17,156 --> 00:25:21,156
Speaker 2: there anymore, but they say that On Friday night it

484
00:25:21,316 --> 00:25:24,276
Speaker 2: was like all the A and rs from the labels,

485
00:25:24,716 --> 00:25:27,076
Speaker 2: and then they would they left CBS and we're like yo.

486
00:25:27,556 --> 00:25:29,276
Speaker 2: They would call their boss, like the head of A

487
00:25:29,356 --> 00:25:31,476
Speaker 2: and R say, Yo, this band Radish. You got to

488
00:25:31,516 --> 00:25:34,316
Speaker 2: come tomorrow night and see them at Coney Island High.

489
00:25:34,356 --> 00:25:36,436
Speaker 2: And so Saturday night it was the A and R's

490
00:25:36,476 --> 00:25:39,116
Speaker 2: plus the head of an R's. After the Saturday show,

491
00:25:39,156 --> 00:25:41,556
Speaker 2: the head of an RS called the presidents and we're like, yo,

492
00:25:41,956 --> 00:25:43,876
Speaker 2: you got to come see this band Radish. On Sunday

493
00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:45,516
Speaker 2: they're playing at Don Hills. This is what I was

494
00:25:45,516 --> 00:25:48,196
Speaker 2: told you know like this is all the legend of

495
00:25:48,236 --> 00:25:51,356
Speaker 2: it all sounds right, and so on Sunday night, I

496
00:25:51,396 --> 00:25:55,876
Speaker 2: remember our lawyer, Jonathan Aralick. He after the show at

497
00:25:55,916 --> 00:25:58,716
Speaker 2: don Hills. He was like, I've never seen this before,

498
00:25:58,916 --> 00:26:00,436
Speaker 2: like and this is like this attorney was at a

499
00:26:00,516 --> 00:26:03,596
Speaker 2: huge law firm like that represented Madonna and Springsteen, like

500
00:26:03,636 --> 00:26:07,676
Speaker 2: big big stuff, and he's like, you had every president

501
00:26:07,756 --> 00:26:10,876
Speaker 2: of every major record label was in that room. Like

502
00:26:10,916 --> 00:26:14,276
Speaker 2: it was kind of nuts. And so we ended up

503
00:26:14,316 --> 00:26:20,316
Speaker 2: signing with Mercury Records, and the album it like didn't

504
00:26:20,316 --> 00:26:22,316
Speaker 2: really do much. It was like, you know, classic big

505
00:26:22,356 --> 00:26:26,196
Speaker 2: budget major label thing. I remember, like really funny because

506
00:26:26,236 --> 00:26:29,796
Speaker 2: I I remember I was fifteen, and I remember the

507
00:26:30,276 --> 00:26:33,756
Speaker 2: publicist from Mercury would come to me all the time

508
00:26:33,876 --> 00:26:36,236
Speaker 2: be like, Ben, you have to stop dyeing your hair

509
00:26:36,316 --> 00:26:38,676
Speaker 2: different colors because like we're spending so much money on

510
00:26:38,756 --> 00:26:41,276
Speaker 2: press shots, like no one's gonna know what you look like.

511
00:26:41,316 --> 00:26:43,556
Speaker 2: And I was like whatever, you know, like stuff like that,

512
00:26:43,636 --> 00:26:47,596
Speaker 2: like just and we went to the UK and actually

513
00:26:47,676 --> 00:26:49,956
Speaker 2: had like a hit song in the UK called Little

514
00:26:49,956 --> 00:26:51,996
Speaker 2: Pink Stars. The like did really well, and we did

515
00:26:52,076 --> 00:26:55,996
Speaker 2: like Redding Festival. We'd sort of faith no more over

516
00:26:56,036 --> 00:27:00,836
Speaker 2: there in Europe, and then it was time for our

517
00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:05,876
Speaker 2: second album. But at this point Mercury was bought by

518
00:27:05,916 --> 00:27:09,196
Speaker 2: PolyGram and it was like all these corporate mergers, and

519
00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:13,196
Speaker 2: then it eventually became Island def Jam music group who

520
00:27:13,236 --> 00:27:15,236
Speaker 2: didn't really give a shit about Radish.

521
00:27:15,796 --> 00:27:18,716
Speaker 1: It's unfortunate. You guys were really cool. I mean, I

522
00:27:18,716 --> 00:27:22,436
Speaker 1: don't want to say unfortunate because that ends well, but is

523
00:27:22,436 --> 00:27:24,596
Speaker 1: what it is, like of all the sort of post

524
00:27:24,916 --> 00:27:28,556
Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot of those posts Nirvana groups.

525
00:27:29,316 --> 00:27:35,036
Speaker 1: Most didn't I don't feel got the proper signal from Nirvana,

526
00:27:35,076 --> 00:27:37,876
Speaker 1: you know, like they did a version of Nirvana that

527
00:27:37,956 --> 00:27:40,916
Speaker 1: was like not that great, right, and whatever whatever you

528
00:27:40,956 --> 00:27:43,316
Speaker 1: guys took from it was really actually really it felt

529
00:27:43,316 --> 00:27:46,836
Speaker 1: like the spirit of it continued, you know right on Maneah.

530
00:27:46,636 --> 00:27:49,916
Speaker 2: Well that's cool to hear. You know, Nirvana really was

531
00:27:50,196 --> 00:27:52,876
Speaker 2: always my favorite band, but it was like also the Beatles,

532
00:27:52,876 --> 00:27:55,596
Speaker 2: so there was just definitely like this melodic thing that

533
00:27:55,636 --> 00:27:56,676
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with.

534
00:27:57,196 --> 00:27:59,596
Speaker 1: What was your family thinking they were?

535
00:27:59,836 --> 00:28:02,996
Speaker 2: They were so supportive. I mean that is like the thing,

536
00:28:04,196 --> 00:28:06,276
Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't make sense, but it also kind

537
00:28:06,276 --> 00:28:08,516
Speaker 2: of makes sense because if you look at the timeline,

538
00:28:08,636 --> 00:28:11,476
Speaker 2: like back to eight years old. Like by the time

539
00:28:11,516 --> 00:28:13,516
Speaker 2: I was fifteen, you know, it's the whole ten thousand

540
00:28:13,516 --> 00:28:16,316
Speaker 2: hours and you're an expert thing, right, Yeah, Well, like

541
00:28:16,556 --> 00:28:19,396
Speaker 2: I was already like just so deep in my path,

542
00:28:20,116 --> 00:28:22,196
Speaker 2: so like when it was time to go perform in

543
00:28:22,276 --> 00:28:25,796
Speaker 2: New York, and also I was just so I had

544
00:28:25,836 --> 00:28:30,556
Speaker 2: so much confidence, you know, and determination, and my parents

545
00:28:30,596 --> 00:28:32,476
Speaker 2: were just like, well, this is what he's doing. And

546
00:28:32,516 --> 00:28:34,156
Speaker 2: they were so supportive.

547
00:28:33,796 --> 00:28:35,916
Speaker 1: And you were kind of out on your own. Was

548
00:28:35,956 --> 00:28:37,556
Speaker 1: anyone accompanying you on those.

549
00:28:37,476 --> 00:28:40,516
Speaker 2: Shoe So that's a good question. I mean I remember

550
00:28:40,756 --> 00:28:43,236
Speaker 2: when it was time to go on tour, you know,

551
00:28:43,516 --> 00:28:45,796
Speaker 2: well we called Nils and was like, okay, well what

552
00:28:45,836 --> 00:28:47,676
Speaker 2: do we do, you know, like we need like a

553
00:28:47,796 --> 00:28:51,796
Speaker 2: crew or something. And so Nils's guitar tech, Michael Mtuzac,

554
00:28:51,916 --> 00:28:56,756
Speaker 2: we called him twos Two's was our chaperone slash tour manager,

555
00:28:56,836 --> 00:29:02,756
Speaker 2: slash guitar tech you know, slash driver. So two's another mentor,

556
00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:04,756
Speaker 2: you know, taught me the code of the road and

557
00:29:05,116 --> 00:29:06,716
Speaker 2: how the road life is.

558
00:29:06,836 --> 00:29:07,036
Speaker 1: You know.

559
00:29:07,716 --> 00:29:11,476
Speaker 2: Also, Nils did an interesting thing when the record deal happened.

560
00:29:12,156 --> 00:29:14,236
Speaker 2: He called my parents and was like, I need Ben

561
00:29:14,396 --> 00:29:17,436
Speaker 2: to go to AA meetings. I didn't drink. I didn't

562
00:29:17,476 --> 00:29:21,676
Speaker 2: do drugs, but he was like, as a preparatory situation,

563
00:29:22,196 --> 00:29:24,396
Speaker 2: like he should go to AA meetings and like hear

564
00:29:24,516 --> 00:29:27,996
Speaker 2: stories because there's gonna be a lot of temptation out there,

565
00:29:28,036 --> 00:29:29,716
Speaker 2: and you know what I mean. And that was kind

566
00:29:29,756 --> 00:29:32,436
Speaker 2: of a cool thing. So I would go at fifteen

567
00:29:32,876 --> 00:29:36,196
Speaker 2: to the local AA meetings and sit around with like

568
00:29:36,236 --> 00:29:38,476
Speaker 2: these old people who are smoking cigs and you know,

569
00:29:38,596 --> 00:29:41,796
Speaker 2: drinking coffee, and I'd just chill with them and listen

570
00:29:41,796 --> 00:29:45,156
Speaker 2: to stories. And that must have been helpful, you know.

571
00:29:45,236 --> 00:29:48,996
Speaker 2: I never got lost in drugs and alcohol. I always

572
00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:52,196
Speaker 2: just really stayed clear about the music.

573
00:29:52,636 --> 00:29:56,196
Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing man, So thanks Nels. Yeah, that's an

574
00:29:56,236 --> 00:29:57,396
Speaker 1: incredible support man.

575
00:29:57,836 --> 00:29:58,316
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.

576
00:29:58,476 --> 00:30:00,556
Speaker 2: So what's funny And I didn't mention it, but like

577
00:30:01,476 --> 00:30:06,076
Speaker 2: in the Radish time, when all the labels wanted us,

578
00:30:06,276 --> 00:30:08,796
Speaker 2: you know, we did the New York thing with the showcases,

579
00:30:08,796 --> 00:30:10,596
Speaker 2: then we to go to LA to meet the West

580
00:30:10,636 --> 00:30:14,396
Speaker 2: Coast labels. And at that time it was Maverick.

581
00:30:14,116 --> 00:30:16,516
Speaker 1: Records, which was Madonna right.

582
00:30:16,436 --> 00:30:20,436
Speaker 2: Madonna's label, and Guyo Siri was running that and Freddie DeMann,

583
00:30:20,476 --> 00:30:26,356
Speaker 2: who was Madonna's manager Interscope. So Jimmy iveen with Interscope.

584
00:30:26,796 --> 00:30:30,796
Speaker 2: Jimmy had a party at his house in Malibu, and

585
00:30:30,916 --> 00:30:34,556
Speaker 2: so it was some famous fight, like a vander Holyfield

586
00:30:34,596 --> 00:30:37,156
Speaker 2: fight that only like you know, ten people could pay

587
00:30:37,156 --> 00:30:40,596
Speaker 2: per view in America, and like Jimmy had it piped

588
00:30:40,596 --> 00:30:43,916
Speaker 2: into his house straight from Vegas in the theater room.

589
00:30:44,236 --> 00:30:46,076
Speaker 2: As it was a party for everyone was going to

590
00:30:46,156 --> 00:30:48,396
Speaker 2: watch this fight. I didn't even not many people watched.

591
00:30:48,436 --> 00:30:53,076
Speaker 2: It was just a party, right, But it kind of

592
00:30:53,076 --> 00:30:56,636
Speaker 2: blew my mind. That was a moment at fifteen years old,

593
00:30:56,796 --> 00:31:01,996
Speaker 2: coming from Greenville, Texas, where my only understanding of pop

594
00:31:02,036 --> 00:31:07,636
Speaker 2: culture was MTV, the radio and like Rolling Stone magazine. Right,

595
00:31:08,516 --> 00:31:11,316
Speaker 2: so we get it. We walk into Jimmy's house and

596
00:31:12,036 --> 00:31:16,396
Speaker 2: it's me and our drummer and my dad and the

597
00:31:16,436 --> 00:31:20,756
Speaker 2: drummer's dad, like you know, and so we're hanging with Jimmy.

598
00:31:20,876 --> 00:31:25,316
Speaker 2: It's like early afternoon. There's a few people there. Dre's there,

599
00:31:26,116 --> 00:31:28,636
Speaker 2: and so we're like, well, that's fucking cool. And so

600
00:31:28,676 --> 00:31:30,476
Speaker 2: we're like hanging with doctor Trey. I think my dad

601
00:31:30,476 --> 00:31:32,836
Speaker 2: smoked a joint with doctor Dre in the in the

602
00:31:32,876 --> 00:31:36,076
Speaker 2: limo actually, because he had his Limo just parked out front.

603
00:31:36,676 --> 00:31:39,356
Speaker 2: But then like later as people started showing up, it

604
00:31:39,436 --> 00:31:43,676
Speaker 2: was like Axel Rose, Robbie Robertson from the band who

605
00:31:43,716 --> 00:31:45,636
Speaker 2: my dad was most stoked about. He was like, dude,

606
00:31:45,676 --> 00:31:47,996
Speaker 2: you know who that is. That's Robbie Robertson from And

607
00:31:48,036 --> 00:31:50,276
Speaker 2: I'm like, I didn't know who the band was yet,

608
00:31:50,356 --> 00:31:52,396
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like all I knew was like,

609
00:31:52,436 --> 00:31:55,756
Speaker 2: that's Doctor tre that's Axel Rose. Holy fucking shit. You know,

610
00:31:56,436 --> 00:31:59,316
Speaker 2: Joe's strummer from the Clash was there. What the nineteen

611
00:31:59,356 --> 00:32:04,196
Speaker 2: ninety seven swimsuit calendar Sports Illustrated girls were there, And

612
00:32:04,276 --> 00:32:07,796
Speaker 2: of course Jimmy knew that I was a huge petty fan,

613
00:32:07,876 --> 00:32:10,076
Speaker 2: and he was like, hey, Tom's gonna come later too,

614
00:32:10,356 --> 00:32:13,076
Speaker 2: you know, he said he's coming, and so I was like,

615
00:32:13,076 --> 00:32:17,076
Speaker 2: oh shit, this is incredible. But it just like blew

616
00:32:17,116 --> 00:32:21,276
Speaker 2: my mind because like from my existence in Greenville, texts

617
00:32:21,396 --> 00:32:24,636
Speaker 2: is like Doctor Dre and Axel Rose are in such

618
00:32:24,716 --> 00:32:27,276
Speaker 2: different lanes. They don't even know each other. In my mind,

619
00:32:27,316 --> 00:32:30,476
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's just different worlds, but all being in

620
00:32:30,476 --> 00:32:33,036
Speaker 2: the same room. That's when I realized, I'm like, oh wow, okay,

621
00:32:33,116 --> 00:32:35,836
Speaker 2: so actually they are the same like there, this is

622
00:32:35,956 --> 00:32:39,556
Speaker 2: like showbiz, like they're entertainers, they're artists, and like of

623
00:32:39,596 --> 00:32:42,396
Speaker 2: course they know each other because like who else can

624
00:32:42,436 --> 00:32:44,196
Speaker 2: relate with this life, you know.

625
00:32:44,236 --> 00:32:44,556
Speaker 4: What I mean.

626
00:32:44,676 --> 00:32:47,236
Speaker 2: So like it kind of was real eye opening for

627
00:32:47,436 --> 00:32:52,636
Speaker 2: me because as a consumer, you just see everything as branded, right,

628
00:32:52,876 --> 00:32:55,796
Speaker 2: and that's what I guess people want, but it's it's

629
00:32:55,836 --> 00:32:56,356
Speaker 2: we're all.

630
00:32:58,876 --> 00:33:02,316
Speaker 1: Exactly separate. This this doctor drad gets fed to that

631
00:33:02,396 --> 00:33:07,116
Speaker 1: audience and be audience exactly exactly.

632
00:33:07,716 --> 00:33:10,996
Speaker 2: But it is funny because Jimmy came up to me,

633
00:33:11,036 --> 00:33:13,996
Speaker 2: He's like, all right, Ben, Tom's on his way, and

634
00:33:14,036 --> 00:33:16,236
Speaker 2: I was like, oh fuck, I'm so nervous, you know,

635
00:33:16,436 --> 00:33:20,156
Speaker 2: to meet Tom Petty. And so like I walked out

636
00:33:20,236 --> 00:33:23,236
Speaker 2: front and I sat on like the stup like like

637
00:33:23,276 --> 00:33:25,756
Speaker 2: the steps right outside of the front door, just waiting

638
00:33:26,196 --> 00:33:27,956
Speaker 2: like I don't know why, like I'm at this like

639
00:33:28,116 --> 00:33:30,796
Speaker 2: party at some dude's house, Like I don't need to

640
00:33:30,836 --> 00:33:33,396
Speaker 2: go out there, but like in my mind I'm fifteen,

641
00:33:33,436 --> 00:33:35,516
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm just gonna go sit and pretend like

642
00:33:35,556 --> 00:33:40,116
Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything. Sure enough, a rolls Royce pulls up,

643
00:33:40,676 --> 00:33:44,036
Speaker 2: Rick Rubin gets out of the driver's seat and Tom

644
00:33:44,156 --> 00:33:46,436
Speaker 2: gets out of the passenger seat and they walk and there,

645
00:33:46,436 --> 00:33:49,916
Speaker 2: walking towards me, right to the front door, and I

646
00:33:49,996 --> 00:33:53,716
Speaker 2: remember just sitting there and like them both being like hey,

647
00:33:54,036 --> 00:33:58,876
Speaker 2: and just walked by me and entered the house. And

648
00:33:58,956 --> 00:34:02,836
Speaker 2: so I'm just like looking around and I'm like, Okay,

649
00:34:03,036 --> 00:34:05,436
Speaker 2: I guess I'll go back inside the party now, like,

650
00:34:05,516 --> 00:34:06,916
Speaker 2: you know, like what was I doing?

651
00:34:07,036 --> 00:34:07,236
Speaker 5: Man?

652
00:34:07,876 --> 00:34:11,156
Speaker 2: And so I go back in the party and uh,

653
00:34:11,996 --> 00:34:14,236
Speaker 2: and Rick walks and he goes and sits on a couch,

654
00:34:14,316 --> 00:34:16,796
Speaker 2: you know, and he's like talking to people, and Tom's there,

655
00:34:16,836 --> 00:34:21,356
Speaker 2: and at some point Tom walked by me again and

656
00:34:21,396 --> 00:34:22,916
Speaker 2: he was like, hey, man, do you have any weed

657
00:34:22,956 --> 00:34:26,236
Speaker 2: on you? And that was like the one moment in

658
00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:28,916
Speaker 2: my life where I'm like, God, damn, why don't I

659
00:34:28,996 --> 00:34:32,476
Speaker 2: have any weed on me right now? But I love

660
00:34:32,556 --> 00:34:34,716
Speaker 2: that like of all the people he's asking, like the

661
00:34:34,756 --> 00:34:37,876
Speaker 2: fifteen year old, he looks year olds, probably got.

662
00:34:37,756 --> 00:34:38,596
Speaker 3: Some weed on him.

663
00:34:39,316 --> 00:34:41,716
Speaker 2: And so I'm like, no, man, sorry, He's like all right,

664
00:34:41,716 --> 00:34:45,236
Speaker 2: it's all good. Then later he we circle back, you know,

665
00:34:45,276 --> 00:34:48,516
Speaker 2: and see each other, and he's like, so, Jimmy's telling

666
00:34:48,556 --> 00:34:51,476
Speaker 2: me that, you know, you're a really good artist, you know,

667
00:34:51,596 --> 00:34:54,316
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, I don't know about that. But

668
00:34:54,996 --> 00:34:58,756
Speaker 2: he's like, well, you know, never sell your publishing. I'm

669
00:34:58,756 --> 00:35:02,396
Speaker 2: like okay, He's like, I sold my publishing. They gave

670
00:35:02,436 --> 00:35:05,316
Speaker 2: me ten thousand dollars. I thought I was rich. I've

671
00:35:05,356 --> 00:35:08,356
Speaker 2: never made a dime off American girl. It's like damn,

672
00:35:08,476 --> 00:35:11,156
Speaker 2: Like that's raw, you know, and we just start talking.

673
00:35:11,196 --> 00:35:12,996
Speaker 2: So you know, it was just like sweet of him,

674
00:35:13,076 --> 00:35:15,716
Speaker 2: like you know, just like going straight to some business

675
00:35:15,756 --> 00:35:17,996
Speaker 2: like bullet points for like this young kid, you know,

676
00:35:18,076 --> 00:35:19,556
Speaker 2: like he was like trying to teach me some shit.

677
00:35:20,596 --> 00:35:24,876
Speaker 2: And then later the party's sort of dying down. And

678
00:35:24,916 --> 00:35:27,316
Speaker 2: this is another thing like at that time in my life,

679
00:35:27,356 --> 00:35:30,356
Speaker 2: like I was just so hungry, you know, and I

680
00:35:30,436 --> 00:35:33,396
Speaker 2: would take my guitar with me everywhere. I would play

681
00:35:33,436 --> 00:35:35,796
Speaker 2: for anyone at the drop of a hat. I want

682
00:35:35,796 --> 00:35:38,516
Speaker 2: to get back into that mindset, by the way, Like

683
00:35:38,516 --> 00:35:40,156
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about that a lot, Like there's something

684
00:35:40,236 --> 00:35:42,516
Speaker 2: so beautiful about like when you're a teenager and like

685
00:35:42,516 --> 00:35:44,916
Speaker 2: you're just naive and all you care about is the

686
00:35:44,916 --> 00:35:46,956
Speaker 2: one thing you love, you know, which in my case

687
00:35:47,036 --> 00:35:49,716
Speaker 2: was music. So of course, like why wouldn't I just

688
00:35:49,796 --> 00:35:52,556
Speaker 2: go everywhere with a guitar and like, why wouldn't I

689
00:35:52,636 --> 00:35:55,156
Speaker 2: just play for anyone, anywhere, at anytime. You know, I

690
00:35:55,236 --> 00:35:57,276
Speaker 2: love that there's something so beautiful that kind of goes away,

691
00:35:57,356 --> 00:35:58,236
Speaker 2: or it did for me, you know.

692
00:35:58,196 --> 00:36:00,716
Speaker 1: I think Neil still has that. And that's why bother

693
00:36:01,116 --> 00:36:04,716
Speaker 1: because when you're around Neil, you realize, yeah, there's something

694
00:36:04,756 --> 00:36:07,236
Speaker 1: going on in them like that, it's just there and

695
00:36:07,316 --> 00:36:10,596
Speaker 1: you don't want to take them out of you. I

696
00:36:10,676 --> 00:36:11,796
Speaker 1: got that, yes.

697
00:36:13,356 --> 00:36:16,716
Speaker 2: So they were like, hey, kid, play us a song.

698
00:36:17,436 --> 00:36:20,996
Speaker 2: And so I was like all right. And so I'm

699
00:36:21,076 --> 00:36:24,996
Speaker 2: sitting in this chair and there's a couch to my

700
00:36:25,236 --> 00:36:29,316
Speaker 2: left and to my right and this big like crystal

701
00:36:30,076 --> 00:36:33,916
Speaker 2: coffee table that's probably like you know, six feet long,

702
00:36:34,436 --> 00:36:36,716
Speaker 2: and then a chair on the other end. And so

703
00:36:36,796 --> 00:36:39,516
Speaker 2: it's like me, Tom Petty's to my right on the

704
00:36:39,556 --> 00:36:43,596
Speaker 2: couch with other people kind of standing around Joe Strummers

705
00:36:43,836 --> 00:36:45,796
Speaker 2: where you're sitting like on the other side of the

706
00:36:45,836 --> 00:36:48,476
Speaker 2: coffee table, and just other people kind of around right,

707
00:36:48,516 --> 00:36:50,916
Speaker 2: and they're like, all right, play us a song, kid.

708
00:36:51,116 --> 00:36:54,956
Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, pop open my guitar case, pull

709
00:36:54,996 --> 00:36:59,756
Speaker 2: out my acoustic I start playing a song. I finish it,

710
00:36:59,796 --> 00:37:02,556
Speaker 2: and they're all like whoo you know, clapping and like

711
00:37:02,636 --> 00:37:05,516
Speaker 2: screaming like that's awesome, blah blah. And so I hand

712
00:37:05,516 --> 00:37:08,996
Speaker 2: my guitar to Tom and I said, Tom, play us

713
00:37:08,996 --> 00:37:12,436
Speaker 2: a song. It's like all right. And he said the

714
00:37:12,476 --> 00:37:15,316
Speaker 2: coolest thing to my fifteen year old small town brain.

715
00:37:16,036 --> 00:37:20,436
Speaker 2: He said, this is a Bech song. And I was like,

716
00:37:20,516 --> 00:37:24,636
Speaker 2: oh my god, Tom Petty listens to Beck like I'm thinking,

717
00:37:24,716 --> 00:37:26,796
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like this is so fucking cool,

718
00:37:27,276 --> 00:37:31,596
Speaker 2: and so again like I just shattering, you know, genres

719
00:37:31,716 --> 00:37:34,876
Speaker 2: and like realities of marketing and all the shit that

720
00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:40,156
Speaker 2: were fed right and the lanes and the categorical nonsense. Yes,

721
00:37:40,396 --> 00:37:42,876
Speaker 2: like yeah, like, oh, he's so cool. Tom's cool. He

722
00:37:43,036 --> 00:37:45,676
Speaker 2: freaking knows about Beck like that was you know. And

723
00:37:45,716 --> 00:37:48,036
Speaker 2: so not only does he play a Beck song, he

724
00:37:48,076 --> 00:37:52,396
Speaker 2: plays a Beck song I had never heard before, asshole Wow,

725
00:37:52,476 --> 00:37:54,796
Speaker 2: which was on One Foot in the Grave and which

726
00:37:54,836 --> 00:37:56,836
Speaker 2: I didn't which of course I went and found like

727
00:37:56,996 --> 00:37:59,916
Speaker 2: the next day, you know, at Amoba Records or whatever.

728
00:38:00,276 --> 00:38:02,636
Speaker 2: But he plays this song that I never heard it,

729
00:38:02,636 --> 00:38:06,956
Speaker 2: which is such a really unique chord progression. Everyone out

730
00:38:06,956 --> 00:38:11,196
Speaker 2: there should listen to this song. Then Tom says Joe

731
00:38:11,396 --> 00:38:15,036
Speaker 2: and hands my guitar to Joe's drummer, and so he's like, ah,

732
00:38:15,236 --> 00:38:18,836
Speaker 2: fuck off everyone, and they're all like, no, Joe, play

733
00:38:19,116 --> 00:38:22,276
Speaker 2: play London Calling. Play London Calling. And I'm like, what's

734
00:38:22,316 --> 00:38:24,796
Speaker 2: London Calling because I didn't know the class yet. Wow,

735
00:38:25,236 --> 00:38:27,876
Speaker 2: you know, And so they play London Call. It's like,

736
00:38:27,916 --> 00:38:29,716
Speaker 2: oh fucking twas fuck.

737
00:38:29,956 --> 00:38:32,396
Speaker 6: And then he starts going to dank gank gank gank

738
00:38:32,436 --> 00:38:36,916
Speaker 6: good dank gank gank gang good dank gang, London Calling girl,

739
00:38:37,196 --> 00:38:42,916
Speaker 6: and everyone's singing London Calling, and it was just such

740
00:38:42,956 --> 00:38:44,956
Speaker 6: a vibe and then he like you know, does like

741
00:38:44,996 --> 00:38:47,196
Speaker 6: a verse in of chorus and then he stands up,

742
00:38:47,796 --> 00:38:52,236
Speaker 6: hey kid, catch and he throws my guitar across the

743
00:38:52,276 --> 00:38:55,876
Speaker 6: you know, million dollar coffee table, and I stand up

744
00:38:55,916 --> 00:38:59,116
Speaker 6: and I catch it boom and I sit back down

745
00:38:59,156 --> 00:39:01,796
Speaker 6: and then I played another song. So that was like

746
00:39:01,876 --> 00:39:04,716
Speaker 6: my first time in Los Angeles.

747
00:39:05,876 --> 00:39:09,196
Speaker 1: I don't know if show business gets any better than that.

748
00:39:09,196 --> 00:39:11,076
Speaker 2: That's kind of the epitome, right.

749
00:39:11,276 --> 00:39:13,356
Speaker 1: And Jimmy wanted you guys on Interscope.

750
00:39:13,436 --> 00:39:16,596
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Interscope. He wanted us really bad, you know,

751
00:39:16,756 --> 00:39:19,196
Speaker 2: and he's the one we should have signed with. Like

752
00:39:19,236 --> 00:39:22,556
Speaker 2: if you look back and really analyze everything. He's the

753
00:39:22,556 --> 00:39:26,396
Speaker 2: one that probably would have been the right move. But

754
00:39:26,556 --> 00:39:31,876
Speaker 2: you know there everything is right like meaning like yeah,

755
00:39:31,996 --> 00:39:35,756
Speaker 2: like no regrets, like I'm so thankful that like history

756
00:39:35,796 --> 00:39:37,076
Speaker 2: played out the way it did, and then I was

757
00:39:37,156 --> 00:39:39,356
Speaker 2: able to have my solo career, Like I'm just happy

758
00:39:39,396 --> 00:39:41,956
Speaker 2: with the way things are, and even if I was unhappy,

759
00:39:41,996 --> 00:39:44,436
Speaker 2: that's still how it is, which we can get to

760
00:39:44,476 --> 00:39:46,596
Speaker 2: in a little bit of like how things go down

761
00:39:46,636 --> 00:39:47,156
Speaker 2: in life.

762
00:39:48,516 --> 00:39:50,716
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from ben Queler. After the

763
00:39:50,756 --> 00:40:03,116
Speaker 1: break between Radish and Shasha. Your first solo period, Yeah,

764
00:40:03,156 --> 00:40:06,316
Speaker 1: what what was happening in terms of your your songwriting

765
00:40:06,356 --> 00:40:07,116
Speaker 1: and your development.

766
00:40:07,476 --> 00:40:13,156
Speaker 2: Well, I started to write a lot more autobiographical songs

767
00:40:13,236 --> 00:40:15,356
Speaker 2: a lot. I started to really develop sort of I

768
00:40:15,356 --> 00:40:19,156
Speaker 2: guess what the Ben Kueller sound is, which is just

769
00:40:19,396 --> 00:40:22,316
Speaker 2: very sort of on the nose, straight up direct it

770
00:40:22,436 --> 00:40:26,316
Speaker 2: is what it is. And also when you write for

771
00:40:26,356 --> 00:40:28,956
Speaker 2: a band sometimes there's like a feeling like, well, it's

772
00:40:28,996 --> 00:40:30,956
Speaker 2: like everybody in the band has to kind of vibe

773
00:40:30,956 --> 00:40:33,476
Speaker 2: with the song you write because you're representing the band

774
00:40:33,516 --> 00:40:36,836
Speaker 2: through these songs, right, And so a big moment that

775
00:40:36,916 --> 00:40:39,756
Speaker 2: happened in that period was I met my wife Liz.

776
00:40:40,476 --> 00:40:45,076
Speaker 2: So Radish needed a bass player and a producer. We

777
00:40:45,076 --> 00:40:47,836
Speaker 2: were working with Bryce Gogin, amazing producer. Did like all

778
00:40:47,876 --> 00:40:50,956
Speaker 2: the pavement stuff, a bunch of Lemonheads records.

779
00:40:50,476 --> 00:40:50,996
Speaker 1: That I love.

780
00:40:51,556 --> 00:40:55,356
Speaker 2: Bryce heard about a bass player in Boston, Josh La Tansi.

781
00:40:56,196 --> 00:40:59,076
Speaker 2: So me and John David Kent, the drummer from Radish,

782
00:40:59,156 --> 00:41:03,076
Speaker 2: we fly up to Boston. We auditioned Josh. He's great.

783
00:41:03,516 --> 00:41:06,276
Speaker 2: We're there for a few days. One of the nights

784
00:41:06,316 --> 00:41:07,996
Speaker 2: he had a gig. He was playing with a band,

785
00:41:08,036 --> 00:41:10,156
Speaker 2: so we went to the start to watch him on

786
00:41:10,236 --> 00:41:12,636
Speaker 2: stage and you know, check out his gig. And at

787
00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:16,196
Speaker 2: that gig, he introduced me to all of his friends

788
00:41:16,796 --> 00:41:18,796
Speaker 2: and Liz was one of the friends.

789
00:41:18,916 --> 00:41:19,436
Speaker 1: Wow.

790
00:41:19,556 --> 00:41:22,636
Speaker 2: So I meet Liz and we just hit it off

791
00:41:22,756 --> 00:41:25,276
Speaker 2: like it was like we knew each other from another life,

792
00:41:25,316 --> 00:41:27,516
Speaker 2: like another you know, kind of just an energy thing.

793
00:41:28,556 --> 00:41:34,276
Speaker 2: It's nineteen ninety eight, and she said, oh, you're from Texas. Cool.

794
00:41:34,276 --> 00:41:36,436
Speaker 2: I'm actually coming through Texas. I'm going on a road

795
00:41:36,436 --> 00:41:40,356
Speaker 2: trip with my best friend Anna and we're coming through Texas.

796
00:41:40,916 --> 00:41:42,236
Speaker 2: I said, oh, well, you got to stay at my

797
00:41:42,316 --> 00:41:45,796
Speaker 2: place and she's like, oh perfect. Meanwhile, you know my

798
00:41:45,916 --> 00:41:48,116
Speaker 2: place is my bedroom at my mom and dad's house,

799
00:41:48,756 --> 00:41:52,516
Speaker 2: because you know, I'm seventeen at this point, Liz was

800
00:41:52,516 --> 00:41:55,116
Speaker 2: twenty two, and I don't think I mentioned that I

801
00:41:55,156 --> 00:41:57,876
Speaker 2: was seventeen. Looking back, She's like, I totally assumed you

802
00:41:57,876 --> 00:41:59,956
Speaker 2: were at least eighteen, because you're like on a business

803
00:42:00,036 --> 00:42:02,596
Speaker 2: trip in Boston, like with your band, like it was

804
00:42:02,676 --> 00:42:04,796
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like didn't realize you were

805
00:42:04,836 --> 00:42:08,596
Speaker 2: like a high school dropout, and so they eventually got

806
00:42:08,636 --> 00:42:13,396
Speaker 2: to textas and the rest is history. Really, I mean,

807
00:42:13,756 --> 00:42:17,876
Speaker 2: I think maybe a month later, I told my parents, Hey,

808
00:42:17,916 --> 00:42:20,796
Speaker 2: I'm you know, most of my friends are going to college.

809
00:42:20,796 --> 00:42:22,316
Speaker 2: I'm not going to go to college. I want to

810
00:42:22,316 --> 00:42:25,836
Speaker 2: get closer to New York, keep pursuing music. So I'm

811
00:42:25,836 --> 00:42:28,236
Speaker 2: going to move to Connecticut and live with Liz. Because

812
00:42:28,276 --> 00:42:31,556
Speaker 2: she left Boston had to go back to Connecticut where

813
00:42:31,596 --> 00:42:35,516
Speaker 2: she grew up, and so I moved to Connecticut and

814
00:42:35,796 --> 00:42:39,916
Speaker 2: lived there with her in her childhood home, and that's

815
00:42:39,916 --> 00:42:43,876
Speaker 2: where I started writing this new body of work. So

816
00:42:44,716 --> 00:42:47,596
Speaker 2: I would go into New York City because Radish still

817
00:42:47,636 --> 00:42:49,836
Speaker 2: had this contract with Mercury, but really now it was

818
00:42:49,876 --> 00:42:54,876
Speaker 2: Island def Jam Music Group, and I would talk to them.

819
00:42:54,956 --> 00:42:56,996
Speaker 2: You know, like, hey, you know, we just made this

820
00:42:57,036 --> 00:43:01,756
Speaker 2: great album with Bryce Gagan at Muscle Shoals, Alabama. And

821
00:43:02,076 --> 00:43:03,836
Speaker 2: it was funny because like I'm trying to tell them,

822
00:43:03,876 --> 00:43:05,796
Speaker 2: like how good this album is. Meanwhile, it's like it

823
00:43:05,876 --> 00:43:08,956
Speaker 2: was like a double album, eighteen songs like really deck

824
00:43:09,516 --> 00:43:12,516
Speaker 2: and like just me spreading my wings, you know, and

825
00:43:12,676 --> 00:43:15,076
Speaker 2: they're just like, it's never going to come out. Basically

826
00:43:15,156 --> 00:43:18,436
Speaker 2: it never did, and in fact, actually we're going to

827
00:43:18,476 --> 00:43:20,676
Speaker 2: release it. We're working. That's a project we're working on,

828
00:43:20,716 --> 00:43:24,076
Speaker 2: like the unreleased Ratish album, which and what's really cool

829
00:43:24,116 --> 00:43:27,876
Speaker 2: about that record is that there's like four songs on

830
00:43:27,916 --> 00:43:31,596
Speaker 2: it that I ended up re recording for Shawsha. And

831
00:43:32,276 --> 00:43:36,996
Speaker 2: at that time, pro Tools came out with this product

832
00:43:37,076 --> 00:43:38,436
Speaker 2: like a do it yourself It was called like the

833
00:43:38,476 --> 00:43:40,716
Speaker 2: Inbox and it was like a do it yourself record

834
00:43:40,796 --> 00:43:45,076
Speaker 2: at home situation because I had like a Taskam cassette recorder,

835
00:43:45,116 --> 00:43:49,196
Speaker 2: but this inbox thing was new, and so I started

836
00:43:49,196 --> 00:43:52,916
Speaker 2: recording songs in my apartment in Brooklyn. We left Connecticut

837
00:43:52,956 --> 00:43:57,996
Speaker 2: moved to New York. So I made a CD called

838
00:43:58,076 --> 00:44:01,836
Speaker 2: Freak Out. It's Ben Queller and we pressed up a

839
00:44:01,916 --> 00:44:04,276
Speaker 2: thousand because I looked around the room. I'm like, I

840
00:44:04,316 --> 00:44:06,316
Speaker 2: don't have a band, it's just me, so that I'll

841
00:44:06,356 --> 00:44:10,716
Speaker 2: be Ben Queller. I'm solo. So I started playing gigs,

842
00:44:10,756 --> 00:44:12,716
Speaker 2: just like you know how I started as a kid,

843
00:44:12,796 --> 00:44:15,236
Speaker 2: like just calling around, and I started getting gigs in

844
00:44:15,276 --> 00:44:18,076
Speaker 2: the Lower East Side. And then there's another band starting

845
00:44:18,116 --> 00:44:21,076
Speaker 2: called the Strokes, and we become friends and playing gigs,

846
00:44:21,076 --> 00:44:23,236
Speaker 2: and the Moldy Peaches are starting. So now it's like

847
00:44:23,356 --> 00:44:26,796
Speaker 2: early two thousands right in New York, which was a vibe.

848
00:44:27,436 --> 00:44:31,076
Speaker 2: And one day I get a phone call from Evan

849
00:44:31,156 --> 00:44:34,676
Speaker 2: Dando of the Lemonheads, which was a complete hero of mine,

850
00:44:34,716 --> 00:44:36,596
Speaker 2: like up there with Kurt Cobain and the whole thing.

851
00:44:37,916 --> 00:44:41,556
Speaker 2: So cool. So I get this message, Ben, this is

852
00:44:41,556 --> 00:44:45,156
Speaker 2: Evan Dando calling. I can't stop playing this freak out record.

853
00:44:45,236 --> 00:44:47,636
Speaker 2: Give me a call back bye. And I was like,

854
00:44:47,716 --> 00:44:50,636
Speaker 2: oh my god, holy shit. So I call Evan back.

855
00:44:50,716 --> 00:44:54,316
Speaker 2: I'm like hey, it's Ben Cohler. He's like, hey, dude,

856
00:44:54,356 --> 00:44:56,196
Speaker 2: you want to go on tour? And I was like,

857
00:44:56,316 --> 00:44:59,236
Speaker 2: yes I do. He's like, great, pick me up at

858
00:44:59,276 --> 00:45:02,316
Speaker 2: the airport tomorrow at twelve and we'll head up to

859
00:45:02,396 --> 00:45:04,876
Speaker 2: Boston for a show. And I'm like okay, I'd like,

860
00:45:04,916 --> 00:45:07,156
Speaker 2: I don't know, like it's like he also just needed

861
00:45:07,156 --> 00:45:10,956
Speaker 2: someone to pick him up at the airport. And so

862
00:45:11,036 --> 00:45:13,196
Speaker 2: I throw my guitar in the trunk of my Volvo

863
00:45:13,956 --> 00:45:17,756
Speaker 2: and I drive to the airport pick up Evan. And

864
00:45:18,316 --> 00:45:21,876
Speaker 2: for like four or five months, all I did was

865
00:45:21,916 --> 00:45:25,196
Speaker 2: open for him. And so like all of my first fans,

866
00:45:25,236 --> 00:45:30,156
Speaker 2: as Ben Koehler, were Lemonheads fans. Yeah, and also like

867
00:45:30,196 --> 00:45:33,156
Speaker 2: this is the other thing, is like Evan calling me

868
00:45:33,316 --> 00:45:37,916
Speaker 2: was such a moment because up until that point, it

869
00:45:38,036 --> 00:45:40,876
Speaker 2: was just like business people that were kissing my ass

870
00:45:40,916 --> 00:45:42,956
Speaker 2: and like, you know, we're gonna make you a stock kid,

871
00:45:43,076 --> 00:45:46,676
Speaker 2: like you know, that was just so fickle and flighty

872
00:45:46,716 --> 00:45:50,476
Speaker 2: and you know, not real at the time. But Evan

873
00:45:50,596 --> 00:45:52,836
Speaker 2: calling me was like the first person that I an

874
00:45:52,916 --> 00:45:55,756
Speaker 2: artist that I actually respected and looked up to and

875
00:45:55,796 --> 00:45:58,796
Speaker 2: wanted to be appeer with, you know, And so that

876
00:45:58,996 --> 00:46:03,036
Speaker 2: was like probably the most meaningful bullet point, you know,

877
00:46:03,116 --> 00:46:06,356
Speaker 2: in this timeline. And so then from there it was

878
00:46:06,356 --> 00:46:08,876
Speaker 2: like he introduced me to Juliana Hatfield, I'd start opening

879
00:46:08,916 --> 00:46:12,116
Speaker 2: for her, and you know, then Jeff Tweety got a

880
00:46:12,156 --> 00:46:14,876
Speaker 2: copy of Freak Out, and so it just like started

881
00:46:14,916 --> 00:46:17,836
Speaker 2: becoming a thing. So meanwhile, I would take these flyers

882
00:46:18,396 --> 00:46:21,476
Speaker 2: to the Island f GM Music Group office of like,

883
00:46:21,516 --> 00:46:24,836
Speaker 2: hey guys, I'm opening for Wilco and or the Lemonheads.

884
00:46:25,436 --> 00:46:27,876
Speaker 2: They would be like how are you doing? Like how

885
00:46:27,876 --> 00:46:29,956
Speaker 2: are you getting these gigs? You're not ready, You're not

886
00:46:30,076 --> 00:46:33,036
Speaker 2: ready to you should be rioting and demoing.

887
00:46:32,556 --> 00:46:32,756
Speaker 5: You know.

888
00:46:32,836 --> 00:46:35,556
Speaker 2: Like I was in there and I'm like, well, I'm already. Meanwhile,

889
00:46:35,636 --> 00:46:38,316
Speaker 2: like you know, I did make this bootleg CD without

890
00:46:38,316 --> 00:46:40,476
Speaker 2: telling anybody, you know what. I was just like trying

891
00:46:40,476 --> 00:46:41,196
Speaker 2: to hustle it.

892
00:46:41,276 --> 00:46:41,476
Speaker 5: Man.

893
00:46:42,196 --> 00:46:46,356
Speaker 2: So one day I was at a gig opening for

894
00:46:46,396 --> 00:46:49,916
Speaker 2: Evan and Ben Lee was also on the bill where

895
00:46:49,956 --> 00:46:53,156
Speaker 2: we became friends, and this guy came up to me

896
00:46:53,156 --> 00:46:55,796
Speaker 2: after the gig and said, hey, my name is Michael McDonald,

897
00:46:56,036 --> 00:46:58,716
Speaker 2: not from the Doobie Brothers stuff, Like yeah, yeah, my

898
00:46:58,796 --> 00:47:01,716
Speaker 2: name is Michael McDonald and I just started a record

899
00:47:01,716 --> 00:47:04,516
Speaker 2: company with Dave Matthews. It's called Ato Records, and we

900
00:47:04,596 --> 00:47:06,116
Speaker 2: really want to sign you. We want you to be

901
00:47:06,156 --> 00:47:09,116
Speaker 2: our first worldwide signing. And I was like, Okay, let's

902
00:47:09,196 --> 00:47:13,036
Speaker 2: do it. And so the day I got Radish basically

903
00:47:13,036 --> 00:47:17,356
Speaker 2: departed from Mercury. Ben Kuehler signed on to ATO Records

904
00:47:17,996 --> 00:47:20,476
Speaker 2: and those early days was that's two thousand and one

905
00:47:20,676 --> 00:47:23,916
Speaker 2: early days at Oh yeah, it was the first worldwide

906
00:47:23,956 --> 00:47:27,356
Speaker 2: they had licensed to the David Gray album, which did

907
00:47:27,396 --> 00:47:31,156
Speaker 2: amazing in the US. And uh so then we went

908
00:47:31,196 --> 00:47:32,436
Speaker 2: in and recorded Shasha.

909
00:47:32,956 --> 00:47:36,956
Speaker 1: What was the process of making Shasha with ATO as

910
00:47:36,996 --> 00:47:38,396
Speaker 1: sort of your label, was it?

911
00:47:38,556 --> 00:47:42,556
Speaker 2: That was cool? Yeah? We recorded in New York at

912
00:47:42,556 --> 00:47:46,316
Speaker 2: this really famous studio called Seer Sound, which used to

913
00:47:46,356 --> 00:47:49,116
Speaker 2: be the Hit Factory back in the sixties. John Lennon

914
00:47:49,196 --> 00:47:52,076
Speaker 2: did a lot of solo work there, so we showed

915
00:47:52,156 --> 00:47:56,556
Speaker 2: up day one. We worked with a great producer, British producer.

916
00:47:56,596 --> 00:47:59,476
Speaker 2: It's funny actually my first three albums were all produced

917
00:47:59,476 --> 00:48:02,796
Speaker 2: by British. British Yeah, kind of a thing, you know.

918
00:48:02,836 --> 00:48:08,436
Speaker 2: That's that's my that's my sixties British invasion. Yeah. So yeah,

919
00:48:08,476 --> 00:48:11,996
Speaker 2: we recorded. I mean at that point it was Josh

920
00:48:12,076 --> 00:48:15,396
Speaker 2: who was in Radish, you know, who introduced me to

921
00:48:15,436 --> 00:48:18,676
Speaker 2: my wife, and then John David, the Radish drummer, was

922
00:48:18,716 --> 00:48:22,356
Speaker 2: the drummer, so it was kind of Radish was the band.

923
00:48:22,236 --> 00:48:26,436
Speaker 1: For different at least from the stuff that got released.

924
00:48:26,516 --> 00:48:28,756
Speaker 1: I mean, you're singing solid changed quite a bit bit

925
00:48:28,916 --> 00:48:29,716
Speaker 1: sure for sure.

926
00:48:30,156 --> 00:48:32,716
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean, like the Radish stuff that was

927
00:48:32,796 --> 00:48:36,156
Speaker 2: released is this album Restraining Bolt, which was like our

928
00:48:36,196 --> 00:48:39,636
Speaker 2: sort of major label debut, And yeah, I definitely like

929
00:48:39,716 --> 00:48:43,396
Speaker 2: had that sort of classic American singer thing from the

930
00:48:43,476 --> 00:48:46,356
Speaker 2: nineties that you're kind of sounding British, you know, you

931
00:48:46,396 --> 00:48:50,796
Speaker 2: know I want to Fly Take Me to the Sky.

932
00:48:50,916 --> 00:48:52,996
Speaker 2: You know, that was like, oh so common in the

933
00:48:53,116 --> 00:48:56,316
Speaker 2: post grunge era. I kind of outgrew that by the

934
00:48:56,316 --> 00:48:57,836
Speaker 2: time I went in and made Shasha.

935
00:48:57,876 --> 00:49:01,356
Speaker 1: I Thank god the way you developed it seemed like

936
00:49:01,396 --> 00:49:03,276
Speaker 1: it was a really original style.

937
00:49:03,436 --> 00:49:06,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, and I embraced the piano, you know,

938
00:49:06,996 --> 00:49:11,396
Speaker 2: because like in the Radish there was no piano. I

939
00:49:11,476 --> 00:49:14,876
Speaker 2: just played guitar and sang, but you know, like pianos

940
00:49:14,916 --> 00:49:17,076
Speaker 2: were it all started for me as an artist really,

941
00:49:17,156 --> 00:49:20,596
Speaker 2: and so I had these songs that I loved on

942
00:49:20,676 --> 00:49:25,236
Speaker 2: the piano, in other words, falling. There were just some

943
00:49:25,396 --> 00:49:28,516
Speaker 2: real good piano songs, and I just knew, if I'm

944
00:49:28,516 --> 00:49:32,796
Speaker 2: going to be a solo artist, piano is equal to

945
00:49:32,876 --> 00:49:34,756
Speaker 2: guitar in my book. You know, It's a fifty to

946
00:49:34,836 --> 00:49:38,556
Speaker 2: fifty thing kind of in my world. And also it

947
00:49:38,676 --> 00:49:41,276
Speaker 2: being a debut album, and knowing knowing who the hell

948
00:49:41,356 --> 00:49:46,076
Speaker 2: Bend Coelor was, Like, I really intentionally made the track

949
00:49:46,156 --> 00:49:49,756
Speaker 2: listings just sort of unique and eclectic, you know, a

950
00:49:49,876 --> 00:49:52,396
Speaker 2: rock song into a folk song into a seventies piano

951
00:49:52,476 --> 00:49:56,276
Speaker 2: ballad and the psychedelic like trippy thing. You know, I

952
00:49:56,356 --> 00:49:58,756
Speaker 2: love so many types of music, and I didn't want

953
00:49:58,796 --> 00:50:00,916
Speaker 2: to just be one thing. I wanted to just kind

954
00:50:00,916 --> 00:50:03,676
Speaker 2: of show people a little bit of everything, like all

955
00:50:03,716 --> 00:50:07,916
Speaker 2: my flavors. Here's all my flavors, and then stay along

956
00:50:07,956 --> 00:50:10,436
Speaker 2: for the ride, and I'll make a bunch of albums hopefully.

957
00:50:10,476 --> 00:50:12,516
Speaker 2: That's kind of what in my mind that was like

958
00:50:12,556 --> 00:50:13,436
Speaker 2: the game plan.

959
00:50:13,596 --> 00:50:15,796
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you might get a lot of flavors

960
00:50:15,796 --> 00:50:17,996
Speaker 1: on it, maybe like a maybe Elliott Smith would be

961
00:50:17,996 --> 00:50:20,676
Speaker 1: another person who you might get a rock song and

962
00:50:20,716 --> 00:50:22,956
Speaker 1: take a more of a folk into a piano ballad

963
00:50:22,996 --> 00:50:25,716
Speaker 1: into but in no way sounds like an Elliott Smith's

964
00:50:25,716 --> 00:50:27,756
Speaker 1: record either. You know, Beck was.

965
00:50:28,076 --> 00:50:30,756
Speaker 2: An artist who really like would do that sort of

966
00:50:30,836 --> 00:50:33,076
Speaker 2: like back and forth a bunch of different stuff. And

967
00:50:33,356 --> 00:50:35,396
Speaker 2: I always loved his early work, like all of his

968
00:50:35,476 --> 00:50:38,436
Speaker 2: work's great, but you know, at that time, definitely was

969
00:50:38,476 --> 00:50:40,596
Speaker 2: inspired by a lot of his early stuff. I just

970
00:50:41,036 --> 00:50:43,756
Speaker 2: not even inspired by, but just like I really like

971
00:50:43,876 --> 00:50:46,516
Speaker 2: fucked with it, and like like I related to what

972
00:50:46,556 --> 00:50:48,876
Speaker 2: he was doing, you know, like I would listen to

973
00:50:48,916 --> 00:50:50,396
Speaker 2: back and be like, oh, I feel like I know

974
00:50:50,476 --> 00:50:53,596
Speaker 2: that guy. Like we you know, it was relatable to

975
00:50:53,636 --> 00:50:56,116
Speaker 2: me and probably like millions of other people who listened.

976
00:50:56,236 --> 00:50:58,436
Speaker 2: But you know, that was just in my little world.

977
00:50:58,956 --> 00:51:01,396
Speaker 2: But then also artists like you know, Neil Young or

978
00:51:01,476 --> 00:51:05,316
Speaker 2: Tom Petty like you know, and particularly Neil I would say,

979
00:51:05,316 --> 00:51:07,276
Speaker 2: you know, going back and forth from piano to guitar.

980
00:51:07,476 --> 00:51:09,676
Speaker 2: But then Nil's Lofgren, I mean, and if you listen

981
00:51:09,756 --> 00:51:12,596
Speaker 2: to his first solo album, which is just called Nils

982
00:51:12,636 --> 00:51:17,156
Speaker 2: Lofgrens Great, underrated, amazing album, you know he kind of

983
00:51:17,196 --> 00:51:20,516
Speaker 2: switches between guitar and piano. So naturally that's kind of

984
00:51:20,756 --> 00:51:23,236
Speaker 2: I just as a kid, was like, that's kind of

985
00:51:23,276 --> 00:51:24,756
Speaker 2: what you do in rock and roll. You play a

986
00:51:24,756 --> 00:51:27,516
Speaker 2: little piano here, you play little guitar, then you sing

987
00:51:27,596 --> 00:51:30,276
Speaker 2: on both those songs. You know, Yeah, that's what ties

988
00:51:30,276 --> 00:51:31,276
Speaker 2: it in as the voice.

989
00:51:31,716 --> 00:51:34,716
Speaker 1: Did you ever get feedback from from Dave as like

990
00:51:34,716 --> 00:51:35,476
Speaker 1: an artist like today?

991
00:51:35,756 --> 00:51:37,716
Speaker 2: Dave actually would come to the studio when we were

992
00:51:37,756 --> 00:51:40,596
Speaker 2: recording Shasha. We had a lot of hangs with Dave. Yeah,

993
00:51:40,596 --> 00:51:43,316
Speaker 2: it was great. He was so fun to be around.

994
00:51:43,396 --> 00:51:45,956
Speaker 1: And yeah, would he give input or was he like

995
00:51:45,996 --> 00:51:47,516
Speaker 1: hands off and just kind of letting you see?

996
00:51:47,516 --> 00:51:51,316
Speaker 2: He was pretty hands off creatively. I remember he would

997
00:51:51,316 --> 00:51:53,796
Speaker 2: talk about like video ideas, which is really fun, Like

998
00:51:53,836 --> 00:51:57,476
Speaker 2: this song in other words, one of the piano songs.

999
00:51:57,916 --> 00:51:59,676
Speaker 2: He was like, we need to go because it mentions

1000
00:51:59,716 --> 00:52:01,716
Speaker 2: butterflies in the song, and he was he was like,

1001
00:52:01,716 --> 00:52:04,156
Speaker 2: we gotta go. There's this place in Mexico where the

1002
00:52:04,236 --> 00:52:07,116
Speaker 2: butterflies like come alive at a certain time. Like I'm

1003
00:52:07,156 --> 00:52:09,396
Speaker 2: just picturing the video now, like let's go, and I'm

1004
00:52:09,436 --> 00:52:11,796
Speaker 2: thinking my mind. I'm like, well, dude, you're Dave Matthew's

1005
00:52:11,836 --> 00:52:14,076
Speaker 2: like you can go anywhere to shoot any kind of video.

1006
00:52:14,076 --> 00:52:15,956
Speaker 2: But I'm like kind of like this guy that's never

1007
00:52:15,996 --> 00:52:18,436
Speaker 2: put out a solo record, Like, you know, I don't

1008
00:52:18,436 --> 00:52:19,476
Speaker 2: know if that's on the budget.

1009
00:52:19,676 --> 00:52:22,996
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, at but is Dave Matthew subsidizing this?

1010
00:52:23,076 --> 00:52:26,516
Speaker 2: Yeah you really want to spend it on a video?

1011
00:52:26,876 --> 00:52:27,076
Speaker 5: You know?

1012
00:52:27,596 --> 00:52:29,596
Speaker 2: What a great guy. I mean, we had some great

1013
00:52:29,636 --> 00:52:32,956
Speaker 2: times together. It was really fun. Early days Ato.

1014
00:52:33,076 --> 00:52:39,196
Speaker 1: I was not so much pain attention to the mechanics

1015
00:52:39,236 --> 00:52:41,076
Speaker 1: of how things worked at that time. But I remember

1016
00:52:41,116 --> 00:52:44,236
Speaker 1: the Shasha record and me and all my friends really

1017
00:52:44,316 --> 00:52:46,396
Speaker 1: loved that record. We were in bands at the time,

1018
00:52:46,476 --> 00:52:48,956
Speaker 1: you know, and just trying to figure things out. And

1019
00:52:48,956 --> 00:52:50,956
Speaker 1: then I just remember at some point, and you can

1020
00:52:50,956 --> 00:52:52,396
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, but I have a memory

1021
00:52:52,436 --> 00:52:55,396
Speaker 1: of like there being commercials on TV for like On

1022
00:52:55,556 --> 00:52:58,236
Speaker 1: My Way, like your next album, Like yeah, it was like, whoa,

1023
00:52:58,236 --> 00:52:59,116
Speaker 1: this guy's getting big.

1024
00:52:59,276 --> 00:53:05,316
Speaker 2: That sounds familiar. Actually, there was something in so ATO

1025
00:53:05,396 --> 00:53:09,276
Speaker 2: Records went through RCA Records that's just for just au

1026
00:53:09,956 --> 00:53:13,876
Speaker 2: and stuff, and I think there was something in Ato's

1027
00:53:13,876 --> 00:53:17,716
Speaker 2: agreement with RCA that like if an album Ato puts

1028
00:53:17,756 --> 00:53:21,876
Speaker 2: out does certain numbers, you know, one hundred thousand units

1029
00:53:21,956 --> 00:53:26,676
Speaker 2: or more whatever, then the next album upstreams to RCA,

1030
00:53:26,716 --> 00:53:28,796
Speaker 2: Like RCA was like, okay, well that's good enough for us,

1031
00:53:28,796 --> 00:53:30,636
Speaker 2: so you know, we want to be involved. And so

1032
00:53:30,716 --> 00:53:34,516
Speaker 2: I think and and Shasha hit that target whatever it was,

1033
00:53:34,716 --> 00:53:38,076
Speaker 2: and so then for On My Way, r c A

1034
00:53:38,476 --> 00:53:40,716
Speaker 2: definitely got involved. And I do remember there were some

1035
00:53:40,756 --> 00:53:44,036
Speaker 2: commercials at that time that I don't remember what they were. God,

1036
00:53:44,036 --> 00:53:46,396
Speaker 2: I'd love to find them be fun to watch.

1037
00:53:46,716 --> 00:53:48,836
Speaker 1: Yeah. Same. I don't exactly remember what they were, but

1038
00:53:48,876 --> 00:53:51,276
Speaker 1: I just remember thinking that it was that's wild, like, Okay,

1039
00:53:51,276 --> 00:53:53,836
Speaker 1: there's a I'm finding out, there's a new ben coming

1040
00:53:53,836 --> 00:53:58,116
Speaker 1: from my TV. That's cool, bizarre, like was unexpected, you know,

1041
00:53:58,756 --> 00:54:01,516
Speaker 1: And that's a really that's an amazing album.

1042
00:54:01,756 --> 00:54:05,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. I love that album because it's very raw.

1043
00:54:05,356 --> 00:54:09,036
Speaker 2: And that's Ethan John's behind the wheel on that drive,

1044
00:54:09,436 --> 00:54:14,436
Speaker 2: the recording console. And yeah, we didn't even use headphones.

1045
00:54:14,476 --> 00:54:17,076
Speaker 2: We just set up standing like right in front of

1046
00:54:17,116 --> 00:54:20,596
Speaker 2: the drum kit, two guitars and a bass player and

1047
00:54:20,636 --> 00:54:22,996
Speaker 2: in a little circle and just played everything live. So

1048
00:54:23,036 --> 00:54:26,516
Speaker 2: we played really quietly and without headphones. You got to

1049
00:54:26,556 --> 00:54:29,716
Speaker 2: play quietly to really hear each other. This really interesting

1050
00:54:29,756 --> 00:54:32,916
Speaker 2: way to record. My guitar player at the time was

1051
00:54:32,956 --> 00:54:35,636
Speaker 2: Mike Stroud, who one of the best guitar players I've

1052
00:54:35,676 --> 00:54:38,956
Speaker 2: ever known, and we toured together. He eventually went on

1053
00:54:38,996 --> 00:54:43,716
Speaker 2: to form Ratatat, which is such a cool group. Yeah, yeah,

1054
00:54:43,756 --> 00:54:45,836
Speaker 2: that's Mike Stroud. So if you go back and listen

1055
00:54:45,836 --> 00:54:49,116
Speaker 2: to on My Way album the guitar solo, so Mike's

1056
00:54:49,116 --> 00:54:51,716
Speaker 2: and the right speaker, I'm in the left speaker, so

1057
00:54:51,796 --> 00:54:56,316
Speaker 2: the guitar solos on the Rules and Disaster, like those

1058
00:54:56,356 --> 00:55:01,036
Speaker 2: songs are basically Rattat guitar player. You know, half of

1059
00:55:01,156 --> 00:55:03,596
Speaker 2: rat Attat is that record. So it's pretty cool.

1060
00:55:04,036 --> 00:55:06,956
Speaker 1: So, you know, On My Way kind of kicks up

1061
00:55:06,956 --> 00:55:09,356
Speaker 1: to the level of URCA feeling like we can we

1062
00:55:09,436 --> 00:55:12,636
Speaker 1: can deal with this kid. You know, also like kind

1063
00:55:12,676 --> 00:55:16,036
Speaker 1: of broke through commercially to a degree. Yeah, and then

1064
00:55:16,076 --> 00:55:17,356
Speaker 1: you do your self titled record.

1065
00:55:17,836 --> 00:55:21,836
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, I'm always an interesting documentation because

1066
00:55:21,836 --> 00:55:24,596
Speaker 2: it's like really raw, like no overdubs, no headphones. It

1067
00:55:24,636 --> 00:55:27,796
Speaker 2: was just a band playing songs, you know, and it's

1068
00:55:27,836 --> 00:55:30,556
Speaker 2: really got a cool vibe to it, which is kind

1069
00:55:30,556 --> 00:55:33,876
Speaker 2: of maybe in hindsight, unfortunate because like it had the

1070
00:55:33,916 --> 00:55:36,996
Speaker 2: biggest push from the labe from RCA, you know, but

1071
00:55:37,076 --> 00:55:39,036
Speaker 2: we delivered like this album that was like super low

1072
00:55:39,036 --> 00:55:42,196
Speaker 2: fi and you know, very vibey, but like definitely no

1073
00:55:42,316 --> 00:55:45,156
Speaker 2: hits on it kind of a thing, you know. But

1074
00:55:45,236 --> 00:55:48,236
Speaker 2: my third album, I really wanted to do something really

1075
00:55:48,276 --> 00:55:52,556
Speaker 2: expansive and just very layered, and I heard a bunch

1076
00:55:52,636 --> 00:55:57,956
Speaker 2: of instrumentation and I met with Gil Norton, great producer

1077
00:55:58,156 --> 00:56:01,756
Speaker 2: in London, and we were talking about the album. We're

1078
00:56:01,756 --> 00:56:04,156
Speaker 2: talking about tracking it and okay, like who's going to

1079
00:56:04,236 --> 00:56:06,836
Speaker 2: play the instruments? And I'm like, well, I got my

1080
00:56:06,916 --> 00:56:10,756
Speaker 2: bass player, Josh and you know John David, you know,

1081
00:56:11,196 --> 00:56:13,916
Speaker 2: played on the first two albums, and we can do

1082
00:56:13,996 --> 00:56:16,876
Speaker 2: Mike Stroud, you know, and guitar or something. And then

1083
00:56:16,916 --> 00:56:19,556
Speaker 2: Gil was like, who's playing on these demos because we

1084
00:56:19,596 --> 00:56:21,836
Speaker 2: were listening to some of the demos I made. I said, oh, well,

1085
00:56:21,836 --> 00:56:24,276
Speaker 2: I played all the instruments on the demos. It's like,

1086
00:56:24,356 --> 00:56:27,396
Speaker 2: oh may. He's like, well, have you ever thought about

1087
00:56:28,036 --> 00:56:31,436
Speaker 2: recording the album just you? I was like, well, no,

1088
00:56:31,516 --> 00:56:34,556
Speaker 2: not really, but it sounds kind of interesting. He's like, oh, man,

1089
00:56:34,596 --> 00:56:36,396
Speaker 2: I think that would be really fun. He's like, I've

1090
00:56:36,396 --> 00:56:39,636
Speaker 2: only ever been in the studio with bands, so it'd

1091
00:56:39,676 --> 00:56:42,516
Speaker 2: be really kind of fun to just work with one

1092
00:56:42,596 --> 00:56:44,756
Speaker 2: artist and just like this does it all? Like you know,

1093
00:56:44,796 --> 00:56:47,676
Speaker 2: we could just like layer everything up, and so that's

1094
00:56:47,676 --> 00:56:49,356
Speaker 2: what we ended up doing. So he came to New

1095
00:56:49,436 --> 00:56:53,836
Speaker 2: York and we recorded this little studio called the Magic Shop,

1096
00:56:54,636 --> 00:56:58,476
Speaker 2: and it was like a musical playground. They had two pianos.

1097
00:56:58,556 --> 00:57:01,716
Speaker 2: They had two grand pianos, a black one and a

1098
00:57:01,756 --> 00:57:04,876
Speaker 2: white one. One was in tune. One was out and

1099
00:57:04,956 --> 00:57:07,596
Speaker 2: we had him like facing each other like Yin and yang.

1100
00:57:07,636 --> 00:57:10,196
Speaker 2: It looked pretty cool, and so we purposely kept one

1101
00:57:10,196 --> 00:57:13,716
Speaker 2: out of tune. Then you got the organ, and then

1102
00:57:13,756 --> 00:57:15,796
Speaker 2: there's a glock and spiel, and then at the other

1103
00:57:15,956 --> 00:57:18,316
Speaker 2: end is the drum set and then here's a wall

1104
00:57:18,356 --> 00:57:21,316
Speaker 2: of amps. We set it up all in a circle.

1105
00:57:21,356 --> 00:57:23,716
Speaker 2: Because there's only going to be one source being played

1106
00:57:23,756 --> 00:57:25,716
Speaker 2: at any given moments, you don't have to worry about

1107
00:57:25,716 --> 00:57:27,796
Speaker 2: bleed or anything like that. So it was just like,

1108
00:57:27,876 --> 00:57:30,796
Speaker 2: what do you want to record? Whatever you're inspired to record,

1109
00:57:30,796 --> 00:57:33,276
Speaker 2: you just press record and pick up that instrument. So

1110
00:57:33,356 --> 00:57:35,796
Speaker 2: it was really cool. So like every track, it's very

1111
00:57:35,796 --> 00:57:39,196
Speaker 2: piano heavy. Every song pretty much it's like we would

1112
00:57:39,236 --> 00:57:41,076
Speaker 2: do a take of the intune piano, take of the

1113
00:57:41,116 --> 00:57:44,076
Speaker 2: autitune piano, then we'd add like glock and spiel. It

1114
00:57:44,116 --> 00:57:47,316
Speaker 2: definitely has like this sort of like there's like a

1115
00:57:47,316 --> 00:57:50,396
Speaker 2: Springsteen feeler, like more of like a Jeff Lynn style,

1116
00:57:50,716 --> 00:57:55,476
Speaker 2: just layered, you know, one hundred acoustic guitars, but it

1117
00:57:55,556 --> 00:57:57,996
Speaker 2: all kind of comes together into one sound in a

1118
00:57:58,036 --> 00:58:02,556
Speaker 2: really unique way. Also, at that time, Liz was pregnant

1119
00:58:02,596 --> 00:58:05,276
Speaker 2: with our first child and so we're living in New

1120
00:58:05,356 --> 00:58:10,556
Speaker 2: York and that was an interesting dynamic because we were

1121
00:58:10,596 --> 00:58:13,716
Speaker 2: the first of our peer group to actually have a baby.

1122
00:58:14,196 --> 00:58:15,956
Speaker 2: That was kind of like an interesting you know, because

1123
00:58:16,036 --> 00:58:18,716
Speaker 2: like up until that time, you know, it was like

1124
00:58:18,836 --> 00:58:21,316
Speaker 2: touring and rock and roll and going staying out late.

1125
00:58:21,476 --> 00:58:24,516
Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to answer to anyone, you know,

1126
00:58:24,636 --> 00:58:26,596
Speaker 2: and so like now it's like, oh, we're pregnant, we're

1127
00:58:26,596 --> 00:58:30,196
Speaker 2: having a baby, which we're so excited about, and now

1128
00:58:30,236 --> 00:58:32,596
Speaker 2: I'm in the studio by myself. So it was like

1129
00:58:32,956 --> 00:58:36,636
Speaker 2: kind of like one of the most liberating recording experiences

1130
00:58:36,676 --> 00:58:39,876
Speaker 2: but also one of the most lonely. But it also,

1131
00:58:40,036 --> 00:58:41,716
Speaker 2: I feel like, has some of my best songs. It's

1132
00:58:41,756 --> 00:58:44,996
Speaker 2: got this song called thirteen, which is sort of one

1133
00:58:45,036 --> 00:58:47,236
Speaker 2: of my best love songs, I feel.

1134
00:58:47,636 --> 00:58:47,916
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1135
00:58:47,956 --> 00:58:51,476
Speaker 2: So that was my self titled album, and then after that,

1136
00:58:52,676 --> 00:58:56,276
Speaker 2: as a songwriter, you know, whenever I would write a song,

1137
00:58:56,316 --> 00:58:58,076
Speaker 2: I would put it in my sketch books. I would

1138
00:58:58,116 --> 00:59:00,556
Speaker 2: always make lists of songs like buckets. I call them,

1139
00:59:00,556 --> 00:59:03,356
Speaker 2: like different buckets of songs. They're each buckets an album

1140
00:59:03,436 --> 00:59:06,996
Speaker 2: a potential album, I guess. And growing up in Texas,

1141
00:59:07,036 --> 00:59:08,756
Speaker 2: you know, we talked about how you know, it was

1142
00:59:08,796 --> 00:59:13,436
Speaker 2: all Beatles, British Invasion and then Nirvana. But then there's

1143
00:59:13,556 --> 00:59:19,716
Speaker 2: the third pillar of my musical lineage, which is the

1144
00:59:19,836 --> 00:59:23,636
Speaker 2: music that would be playing around me, like when I'd

1145
00:59:23,676 --> 00:59:27,116
Speaker 2: go to Walmart or like sitting at Applebee's having lunch,

1146
00:59:27,476 --> 00:59:30,756
Speaker 2: and that would have been the class of eighty nine

1147
00:59:31,116 --> 00:59:36,836
Speaker 2: country music, Garth Brooks, Alan Jackson, Travis Tritt, all that stuff.

1148
00:59:37,396 --> 00:59:41,036
Speaker 2: So like, there's like definitely a lot of country. So

1149
00:59:41,396 --> 00:59:43,316
Speaker 2: I would write country songs, even going all the way

1150
00:59:43,316 --> 00:59:45,956
Speaker 2: back to Radish. I would just sometimes you can't help

1151
00:59:45,996 --> 00:59:47,556
Speaker 2: what you're right, you know, it just pops out and

1152
00:59:47,556 --> 00:59:49,436
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's a cool country song. So I'd

1153
00:59:49,436 --> 00:59:52,396
Speaker 2: put each one of those in this country album bucket.

1154
00:59:53,156 --> 00:59:55,916
Speaker 2: So after the self titled album, I'm like, Okay, this

1155
00:59:55,916 --> 00:59:58,556
Speaker 2: will be my fourth album. I have like ten songs

1156
00:59:58,556 --> 01:00:01,836
Speaker 2: here that are really good country songs. So that's going

1157
01:00:01,916 --> 01:00:03,916
Speaker 2: to be the next one. And so I called it

1158
01:00:04,036 --> 01:00:08,716
Speaker 2: Changing Horses. I decided, oh, well, I made the first

1159
01:00:08,716 --> 01:00:11,996
Speaker 2: three album New York, maybe I should go back to

1160
01:00:12,076 --> 01:00:16,276
Speaker 2: Texas for this one. And at that time, the band Spoon,

1161
01:00:16,636 --> 01:00:19,036
Speaker 2: their drummer Jimmy, you know, he had just built a

1162
01:00:19,076 --> 01:00:22,556
Speaker 2: great studio in Austin called Public Hi Fi, and Jim

1163
01:00:22,676 --> 01:00:24,916
Speaker 2: was like, dude, come down here to Austin, make the

1164
01:00:24,956 --> 01:00:27,196
Speaker 2: record of my new studio. You'll love it. And so

1165
01:00:27,236 --> 01:00:30,196
Speaker 2: we rented a house in Austin for a few weeks

1166
01:00:30,876 --> 01:00:34,996
Speaker 2: and we recorded Changing Horses, which is one of my

1167
01:00:35,196 --> 01:00:38,516
Speaker 2: personal favorites that I've made. It's so unique, and you know,

1168
01:00:38,716 --> 01:00:40,756
Speaker 2: I call it a country album. It very much is.

1169
01:00:40,956 --> 01:00:44,156
Speaker 2: It's got pedal steel and doughbro all over it, played

1170
01:00:44,156 --> 01:00:47,916
Speaker 2: by this amazing musician, Ben Kidderman. But it's my flavor

1171
01:00:47,996 --> 01:00:50,156
Speaker 2: of country. You know. It's a Ben Coehler album, like

1172
01:00:50,276 --> 01:00:52,876
Speaker 2: for sure. So we made that we go back to

1173
01:00:52,996 --> 01:00:56,796
Speaker 2: New York. It turns out that the Changing Horses was

1174
01:00:57,396 --> 01:01:00,876
Speaker 2: the last album for Ato Records. In the contract, we're

1175
01:01:00,916 --> 01:01:04,596
Speaker 2: back in Brooklyn and Liz is like, man, life was

1176
01:01:04,636 --> 01:01:09,396
Speaker 2: really nice in Austin. And Dorian, our son was born

1177
01:01:09,556 --> 01:01:11,956
Speaker 2: before this. So actually when we came down to record

1178
01:01:12,036 --> 01:01:13,956
Speaker 2: Changing Horses, Dorian was with us. He was like one,

1179
01:01:14,356 --> 01:01:16,916
Speaker 2: you know, So when we're back in Brooklyn, she was like,

1180
01:01:16,956 --> 01:01:19,996
Speaker 2: life was really easy in Austin. You know, having a

1181
01:01:20,036 --> 01:01:24,356
Speaker 2: baby there was super easy and cool. And so we

1182
01:01:24,436 --> 01:01:27,956
Speaker 2: decided to move to Austin in two thousand and eight

1183
01:01:28,196 --> 01:01:32,396
Speaker 2: or nine. So we get to Austin. I always, in

1184
01:01:32,436 --> 01:01:33,876
Speaker 2: the back of my mind knew that I wanted to

1185
01:01:33,916 --> 01:01:35,916
Speaker 2: have a record company because I've just always been a

1186
01:01:35,916 --> 01:01:39,596
Speaker 2: record nerd and I've just been obsessed with recording other

1187
01:01:39,636 --> 01:01:43,196
Speaker 2: people and loving bands and records and the whole thing.

1188
01:01:43,996 --> 01:01:47,436
Speaker 2: And so instead of renewing with ATO, I told him,

1189
01:01:47,476 --> 01:01:49,276
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I love you guys so much, but

1190
01:01:49,876 --> 01:01:52,196
Speaker 2: down in Austin just had a baby. I'm like, just

1191
01:01:52,356 --> 01:01:55,036
Speaker 2: changing up everything. I'm going to start my own record label.

1192
01:01:55,676 --> 01:01:58,636
Speaker 2: So the Noise Company was born, and that was in

1193
01:01:58,796 --> 01:02:03,036
Speaker 2: twenty ten, and we put out an album for me

1194
01:02:03,196 --> 01:02:06,076
Speaker 2: called Go Fly a Kite, which did it for an

1195
01:02:06,156 --> 01:02:10,156
Speaker 2: independent release. For our first release, did really well, ended

1196
01:02:10,196 --> 01:02:14,636
Speaker 2: up getting nominated for a Grammy for Best Album Art.

1197
01:02:14,796 --> 01:02:17,356
Speaker 2: I will say a non music Grammy, but hey, it's

1198
01:02:17,396 --> 01:02:20,076
Speaker 2: as my publicist said, dude, we can still say Grammy

1199
01:02:20,116 --> 01:02:25,876
Speaker 2: nominated artist. But really proud of that release because artwork

1200
01:02:25,956 --> 01:02:28,396
Speaker 2: is always actually really important to me, the aesthetics and

1201
01:02:28,436 --> 01:02:32,236
Speaker 2: I just love the tactile, you know, experience of an

1202
01:02:32,276 --> 01:02:35,116
Speaker 2: album and a record and so yeah, so we did that.

1203
01:02:35,236 --> 01:02:41,236
Speaker 2: We discovered this great band wild Child signed them. So

1204
01:02:41,316 --> 01:02:44,116
Speaker 2: that's it. So now that this is our like real

1205
01:02:44,156 --> 01:02:47,676
Speaker 2: community at this point, you know, the locals.

1206
01:02:47,596 --> 01:02:50,556
Speaker 1: Can Can you talk a bit about Dorian and your

1207
01:02:50,596 --> 01:02:51,996
Speaker 1: relationship with him.

1208
01:02:51,996 --> 01:02:57,236
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, Dorian, it was a lot like me,

1209
01:02:58,316 --> 01:03:04,756
Speaker 2: just very musical, super creative, and we joke that like

1210
01:03:04,796 --> 01:03:07,636
Speaker 2: in second grade, he was given you know, at the

1211
01:03:07,716 --> 01:03:09,756
Speaker 2: end of the school year, every kid gets award for

1212
01:03:09,836 --> 01:03:12,516
Speaker 2: some different thing, and he got the friend to all

1213
01:03:12,676 --> 01:03:17,796
Speaker 2: Ward and he really was you know, he wasn't concerned

1214
01:03:17,796 --> 01:03:21,396
Speaker 2: with mundane, just sort of everyday stuff that most people learn.

1215
01:03:21,516 --> 01:03:24,076
Speaker 2: Like he like, you know, we'd be having dinner and

1216
01:03:24,276 --> 01:03:27,156
Speaker 2: he'd be like, Mom, this is amazing chicken, and she'd

1217
01:03:27,196 --> 01:03:29,596
Speaker 2: be like that's beef, and like, you know, and that

1218
01:03:29,756 --> 01:03:31,556
Speaker 2: was like when he was like, you know, a teenager,

1219
01:03:31,716 --> 01:03:34,396
Speaker 2: you know, like he just never learned the difference between

1220
01:03:34,596 --> 01:03:39,476
Speaker 2: Like he didn't care if if you were like conservative liberal,

1221
01:03:39,596 --> 01:03:42,516
Speaker 2: like what, like, none of that shit mattered to him.

1222
01:03:42,636 --> 01:03:42,796
Speaker 1: You know.

1223
01:03:42,876 --> 01:03:44,956
Speaker 2: He was just like he just saw you for you

1224
01:03:45,836 --> 01:03:48,316
Speaker 2: and if he jibed with it, all good, if not

1225
01:03:48,596 --> 01:03:50,276
Speaker 2: all good, like you know what I mean. He just

1226
01:03:50,356 --> 01:03:53,796
Speaker 2: like did his thing and he was like a true connector.

1227
01:03:54,396 --> 01:03:58,556
Speaker 2: I mean it's amazing. Like the funeral, so many people

1228
01:03:58,596 --> 01:04:00,916
Speaker 2: showed up, Hundreds of people showed up, Like we met

1229
01:04:00,956 --> 01:04:04,076
Speaker 2: so many kids that would just come up to us

1230
01:04:04,596 --> 01:04:07,876
Speaker 2: and say, you know, Dorian reached out to me and

1231
01:04:07,916 --> 01:04:10,276
Speaker 2: like brought introduced me to these people, like he would

1232
01:04:10,316 --> 01:04:14,236
Speaker 2: put people together and just like people have come up

1233
01:04:14,236 --> 01:04:16,636
Speaker 2: to me since, like you know, we're friends because of Dorian,

1234
01:04:16,716 --> 01:04:18,996
Speaker 2: like we never would have known each other or and

1235
01:04:19,036 --> 01:04:22,436
Speaker 2: in all different scenes from like the skaters to the

1236
01:04:22,476 --> 01:04:27,756
Speaker 2: band nerds like cool uncool again, like none of the

1237
01:04:27,916 --> 01:04:30,396
Speaker 2: just people. You know, that's all it was.

1238
01:04:30,316 --> 01:04:31,556
Speaker 1: For him, seated.

1239
01:04:31,796 --> 01:04:36,956
Speaker 2: Yes, we started, you know, he started making music like

1240
01:04:37,636 --> 01:04:39,796
Speaker 2: in his bedroom here and dripping springs. Like when we

1241
01:04:39,836 --> 01:04:42,156
Speaker 2: moved here full time, he really started playing guitar a

1242
01:04:42,196 --> 01:04:44,556
Speaker 2: lot more, and I would hear him in his bedroom

1243
01:04:45,076 --> 01:04:47,956
Speaker 2: coming up with original stuff, and I'd go in and

1244
01:04:47,956 --> 01:04:50,076
Speaker 2: we'd talk and be like, dude, that's cool. Like then

1245
01:04:50,116 --> 01:04:53,756
Speaker 2: he started learning fl fl Studio, which is like the competitor,

1246
01:04:53,876 --> 01:04:56,316
Speaker 2: you know, it's one of these like recording softwares, but

1247
01:04:56,356 --> 01:04:57,916
Speaker 2: it's like a real hip hop like a lot of

1248
01:04:57,916 --> 01:05:00,716
Speaker 2: the hip hop producers use FL And he loved hip hop,

1249
01:05:00,956 --> 01:05:03,036
Speaker 2: and so he started making beats. I mean, he would

1250
01:05:03,076 --> 01:05:05,676
Speaker 2: like the incredible beats would be coming out of his bedroom.

1251
01:05:05,676 --> 01:05:07,996
Speaker 2: I'd be like, dude, like this stuff is so good.

1252
01:05:08,716 --> 01:05:12,876
Speaker 2: And then the last piece for him as an artist

1253
01:05:12,996 --> 01:05:15,836
Speaker 2: was like his voice, Like he's started finding his voice

1254
01:05:16,316 --> 01:05:19,996
Speaker 2: and it was such a like soultry sort of his

1255
01:05:20,076 --> 01:05:22,396
Speaker 2: voice tone is a lot of people are like, oh god,

1256
01:05:22,396 --> 01:05:24,596
Speaker 2: he sounds just like you, but really, if you listen,

1257
01:05:25,036 --> 01:05:28,276
Speaker 2: it's actually a deeper register than me. It's a lower voice,

1258
01:05:28,876 --> 01:05:32,396
Speaker 2: and it's like very raspy and just sultry is like

1259
01:05:32,436 --> 01:05:35,236
Speaker 2: the word I always think when I think of his singing.

1260
01:05:35,836 --> 01:05:37,796
Speaker 2: And he was like, Dad, like I want to put

1261
01:05:37,836 --> 01:05:41,076
Speaker 2: out some of these songs. And so we started like

1262
01:05:41,156 --> 01:05:45,116
Speaker 2: he would come over here to the barn and I

1263
01:05:45,116 --> 01:05:48,036
Speaker 2: would sort of help him mix stuff. And he decided

1264
01:05:48,076 --> 01:05:51,436
Speaker 2: he wanted to release his music under his middle name,

1265
01:05:51,556 --> 01:05:56,596
Speaker 2: zev Zev, which means wolf, and so we started dropping

1266
01:05:56,636 --> 01:06:02,396
Speaker 2: songs like as Zev you know, on Spotify, and it

1267
01:06:02,476 --> 01:06:08,236
Speaker 2: was just so cool, you know, and he was sixteen

1268
01:06:09,396 --> 01:06:14,076
Speaker 2: and it was really interesting, Like there was this period

1269
01:06:14,116 --> 01:06:19,636
Speaker 2: of time where he just would we would have these conversations, uh,

1270
01:06:19,876 --> 01:06:22,516
Speaker 2: you know, at dinner. We'd always have dinner together as

1271
01:06:22,516 --> 01:06:27,396
Speaker 2: a family, Me, Liz, Judah and Dorian. And for a

1272
01:06:27,476 --> 01:06:31,276
Speaker 2: minute there, like there's this like two week period where

1273
01:06:31,956 --> 01:06:35,316
Speaker 2: he was constantly like god, guys like mom, Dad, Like

1274
01:06:35,836 --> 01:06:38,276
Speaker 2: I just feel so weird, like I can't fit it

1275
01:06:38,316 --> 01:06:41,196
Speaker 2: all in, Like I need, like Dad, we need to

1276
01:06:41,236 --> 01:06:43,996
Speaker 2: be putting out a song like every Friday, Like let's

1277
01:06:44,036 --> 01:06:46,676
Speaker 2: I want to put out his song constantly. And then

1278
01:06:46,876 --> 01:06:48,756
Speaker 2: of course I'm like trying to explain well, like you know,

1279
01:06:49,076 --> 01:06:51,956
Speaker 2: Spotify really prefers if it's like a four week ramp

1280
01:06:52,076 --> 01:06:53,836
Speaker 2: up period and then then you got to pitch it

1281
01:06:53,876 --> 01:06:57,396
Speaker 2: to editorial like all the bullshit that is driven into

1282
01:06:57,436 --> 01:07:00,876
Speaker 2: our brains, you know, as professionals, and you know, he

1283
01:07:00,996 --> 01:07:03,556
Speaker 2: but he's just like, no, dog, like I want to

1284
01:07:04,036 --> 01:07:05,956
Speaker 2: I need to be dropping a song a day, yeah,

1285
01:07:05,956 --> 01:07:08,156
Speaker 2: you know in his mind. And he but just this

1286
01:07:08,276 --> 01:07:10,756
Speaker 2: interesting vibe where he was just like but yes, a dad,

1287
01:07:10,796 --> 01:07:12,516
Speaker 2: like I need to put out music. He's like I

1288
01:07:12,516 --> 01:07:14,756
Speaker 2: need to go hang with my friends. But like then

1289
01:07:14,796 --> 01:07:16,316
Speaker 2: I feel bad, like I want to hang out with

1290
01:07:16,356 --> 01:07:19,156
Speaker 2: you guys, you know, like, and I just can't fit it.

1291
01:07:19,196 --> 01:07:22,796
Speaker 2: Like there was this weird thing that was happening, and

1292
01:07:22,836 --> 01:07:27,436
Speaker 2: then one day Liz comes home, and she's like, God,

1293
01:07:28,396 --> 01:07:31,116
Speaker 2: everyone who drives a black pickup truck is an asshole.

1294
01:07:31,836 --> 01:07:34,196
Speaker 2: We're kind of like, really, okay, ha ha, like what

1295
01:07:34,516 --> 01:07:36,796
Speaker 2: like she like, so she kept seeing these black trucks

1296
01:07:36,796 --> 01:07:39,156
Speaker 2: that were like, I don't know, like running off the

1297
01:07:39,196 --> 01:07:42,476
Speaker 2: road or like. She kept having these weird things, these

1298
01:07:42,556 --> 01:07:44,516
Speaker 2: mother instinct vibe things.

1299
01:07:44,596 --> 01:07:44,796
Speaker 3: Right.

1300
01:07:46,396 --> 01:07:49,836
Speaker 2: So one night we're sitting around the dinner table and

1301
01:07:49,916 --> 01:07:53,436
Speaker 2: Dorian's it's like a Monday or Tuesday. It's school night,

1302
01:07:53,596 --> 01:07:57,156
Speaker 2: and he says, Mom, Dad, I'm gonna go over to

1303
01:07:57,236 --> 01:08:02,436
Speaker 2: Dylan's house after dinner and skate. And they're like, oh, okay. Well,

1304
01:08:02,596 --> 01:08:05,796
Speaker 2: and Liz kind of gave it to him a little bit.

1305
01:08:05,836 --> 01:08:08,516
Speaker 2: She kind of went into the thing of, well, Dorry,

1306
01:08:09,356 --> 01:08:12,956
Speaker 2: you know you have that test this week at school.

1307
01:08:13,156 --> 01:08:15,556
Speaker 2: You probably haven't studied, Like you need to study for that.

1308
01:08:16,196 --> 01:08:18,436
Speaker 2: It's a school night, like you really need to start

1309
01:08:18,436 --> 01:08:20,996
Speaker 2: thinking about your future, like you really need to start

1310
01:08:21,396 --> 01:08:25,196
Speaker 2: getting your act together and like get serious about school,

1311
01:08:25,996 --> 01:08:30,036
Speaker 2: you know, and just kind of giving him that talk,

1312
01:08:30,756 --> 01:08:32,756
Speaker 2: and he was so sweet. He was like, yeah, I

1313
01:08:32,796 --> 01:08:35,356
Speaker 2: know you're right, but I'm still gonna go to Dylan's

1314
01:08:35,356 --> 01:08:37,356
Speaker 2: and skate. You know, we kind of like chuckled, and

1315
01:08:37,396 --> 01:08:40,356
Speaker 2: we're like okay, you know, and so then he's like,

1316
01:08:40,396 --> 01:08:42,796
Speaker 2: all right, love you guys. So we have dinner. He leaves.

1317
01:08:44,076 --> 01:08:48,196
Speaker 2: Then Judah, me and Liz were watching some lame show

1318
01:08:48,236 --> 01:08:50,396
Speaker 2: on Netflix. I don't remember what it is because we'd

1319
01:08:50,436 --> 01:08:54,716
Speaker 2: never watched it since this night, and he always was

1320
01:08:54,716 --> 01:08:58,596
Speaker 2: home by nine, and so it's like nine thirty, right,

1321
01:08:58,876 --> 01:09:04,356
Speaker 2: and Liz said, hey, call Dorian, make sure he's heading home,

1322
01:09:04,516 --> 01:09:08,156
Speaker 2: you know, by nine thirty. I didn't really want after

1323
01:09:08,156 --> 01:09:10,196
Speaker 2: the whole conversation we had at the dinner table, I

1324
01:09:10,236 --> 01:09:12,916
Speaker 2: didn't want to be like, dude, good look, you know.

1325
01:09:13,396 --> 01:09:16,196
Speaker 2: So I looked on Find my app or whatever to

1326
01:09:16,196 --> 01:09:18,516
Speaker 2: see his iPhone see where it was, and I saw

1327
01:09:18,556 --> 01:09:22,396
Speaker 2: the blue dot was heading home on McGregor Lane in

1328
01:09:22,516 --> 01:09:26,556
Speaker 2: Dripping Springs, and so I'm like, I told Liz, I'm like, oh,

1329
01:09:26,596 --> 01:09:28,356
Speaker 2: he's on his way home. I see him. He's good

1330
01:09:28,996 --> 01:09:31,036
Speaker 2: and she's like all right, cool. As we keep watching

1331
01:09:31,076 --> 01:09:34,436
Speaker 2: the show, and like twenty minutes later, he's not home,

1332
01:09:35,356 --> 01:09:38,356
Speaker 2: and he would have been like ten or fifteen minutes

1333
01:09:38,396 --> 01:09:41,276
Speaker 2: away from home. So that was a little weird. So

1334
01:09:41,436 --> 01:09:45,956
Speaker 2: I pull up Find My and the dots in the

1335
01:09:45,996 --> 01:09:52,836
Speaker 2: same spot that it was when I looked twenty minutes ago,

1336
01:09:52,876 --> 01:09:55,516
Speaker 2: and so I stood up and I'm like, hey, something's

1337
01:09:55,556 --> 01:09:58,516
Speaker 2: not right. I'm gonna go check on Dorian, like maybe

1338
01:09:58,516 --> 01:10:00,836
Speaker 2: flat tire or something or you know what I mean.

1339
01:10:00,876 --> 01:10:04,276
Speaker 2: I'm just like anything. And there's like not really good

1340
01:10:04,276 --> 01:10:07,036
Speaker 2: cell phone service over there. That's you know, we're in

1341
01:10:07,076 --> 01:10:09,156
Speaker 2: the boonies. So like I know that road, and and

1342
01:10:10,596 --> 01:10:13,076
Speaker 2: so I hop in the car and I just like

1343
01:10:13,476 --> 01:10:17,476
Speaker 2: race down because you know, it's like every parent's worst

1344
01:10:17,556 --> 01:10:20,516
Speaker 2: nightmare is that thought. You always think.

1345
01:10:20,516 --> 01:10:21,556
Speaker 1: This is a thought.

1346
01:10:21,676 --> 01:10:23,916
Speaker 2: It's always a thought. Be the worst of the worst

1347
01:10:23,996 --> 01:10:27,076
Speaker 2: is what you think, and it never happens luckily, and

1348
01:10:27,156 --> 01:10:30,116
Speaker 2: so you know, but I'm having a feeling, so like

1349
01:10:30,156 --> 01:10:35,236
Speaker 2: I'm fucking speeding, racing down, and it was kind of

1350
01:10:35,436 --> 01:10:38,516
Speaker 2: first weird thing was there were no deer on the side.

1351
01:10:38,636 --> 01:10:42,556
Speaker 2: Usually at night out here there's you'll see deer on

1352
01:10:42,596 --> 01:10:44,476
Speaker 2: the side of the road or see it's kind of

1353
01:10:44,516 --> 01:10:46,636
Speaker 2: you know, but there was like the seas were parted.

1354
01:10:46,716 --> 01:10:48,276
Speaker 2: It was a kind of the only thing I can

1355
01:10:48,316 --> 01:10:51,956
Speaker 2: think of is like there were no animals. There was

1356
01:10:51,996 --> 01:10:55,556
Speaker 2: one car that kind of drove towards me, that passed

1357
01:10:55,596 --> 01:10:59,356
Speaker 2: me on the road at one point headlights and then

1358
01:10:59,556 --> 01:11:02,836
Speaker 2: I'm just like hammering down and I make this turn

1359
01:11:03,476 --> 01:11:10,956
Speaker 2: and I'm going on straightaway and I see all the lights, blue, red, flashing, spinning,

1360
01:11:11,116 --> 01:11:16,436
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, fuck, okay, what something's up. I

1361
01:11:16,596 --> 01:11:22,796
Speaker 2: race up fire trucks, cop cars. There's a little red

1362
01:11:22,836 --> 01:11:25,476
Speaker 2: car on the side of the road with a young

1363
01:11:25,556 --> 01:11:28,996
Speaker 2: lady standing there, shell shocked, just kind of standing by

1364
01:11:29,076 --> 01:11:33,196
Speaker 2: her car. I pull right up to there's cones. I

1365
01:11:33,516 --> 01:11:36,876
Speaker 2: jump out of the car. I start running towards the

1366
01:11:36,916 --> 01:11:39,116
Speaker 2: police and everybody. I'm like, where is he? Where is he?

1367
01:11:39,116 --> 01:11:41,236
Speaker 2: He's my son? Where is he? I look to my left,

1368
01:11:41,276 --> 01:11:44,156
Speaker 2: I see the car. The door has been cut off.

1369
01:11:45,796 --> 01:11:48,276
Speaker 2: He's not in the car. So I'm like, oh, and

1370
01:11:48,676 --> 01:11:51,756
Speaker 2: so then a big officer, whoa, whoa, whoa, sir, sir, sir,

1371
01:11:52,476 --> 01:11:54,236
Speaker 2: you're not allowed to be here. This is a you know,

1372
01:11:54,396 --> 01:11:56,836
Speaker 2: active investigation, the whole thing. I'm like, where is he?

1373
01:11:56,836 --> 01:11:59,876
Speaker 2: He's my son, I'm his father, Like what you know?

1374
01:12:00,276 --> 01:12:03,196
Speaker 2: Where is he? And he was like, sir, you don't

1375
01:12:03,236 --> 01:12:06,116
Speaker 2: want to go over there, And I'm like, what do

1376
01:12:06,156 --> 01:12:10,276
Speaker 2: you mean, Like, hey, I do want to go over there,

1377
01:12:10,276 --> 01:12:12,836
Speaker 2: Like I'm his dad, you know, like you don't know me, Like,

1378
01:12:12,876 --> 01:12:16,236
Speaker 2: I appreciate you trying to do your job, but like

1379
01:12:16,916 --> 01:12:21,476
Speaker 2: if my like is he dead, you know? And he said,

1380
01:12:21,476 --> 01:12:23,036
Speaker 2: you don't want to go over there. That's how he

1381
01:12:23,116 --> 01:12:27,676
Speaker 2: answered me. And so I knew. So I call Liz.

1382
01:12:28,196 --> 01:12:31,196
Speaker 2: You know, I'm just like, honey, you gotta get down here.

1383
01:12:32,676 --> 01:12:35,876
Speaker 2: And it's really bad. And she said, what it is

1384
01:12:35,956 --> 01:12:39,836
Speaker 2: the worst scream I've ever heard through the phone. Her

1385
01:12:39,876 --> 01:12:42,196
Speaker 2: and Juda get in the car the other Luckily we

1386
01:12:42,236 --> 01:12:49,876
Speaker 2: had two cars, and her and Juda race down and yeah,

1387
01:12:49,996 --> 01:12:56,076
Speaker 2: and Dorian was dead. Car crash, the red car that

1388
01:12:56,196 --> 01:13:00,996
Speaker 2: was there. This young lady, she said she was driving

1389
01:13:01,716 --> 01:13:05,916
Speaker 2: and Dorian was in front of her, and she saw

1390
01:13:06,516 --> 01:13:12,156
Speaker 2: a big black truck driving toward them, and the black

1391
01:13:12,196 --> 01:13:18,156
Speaker 2: truck went into Dorian into their lane. Dorian tried to

1392
01:13:18,236 --> 01:13:22,916
Speaker 2: correct to the right. A month prior, we had that

1393
01:13:23,156 --> 01:13:25,596
Speaker 2: huge freeze. This is twenty twenty three, there was some

1394
01:13:25,716 --> 01:13:28,956
Speaker 2: crazy blizzard freeze in Texas that kind of made the news,

1395
01:13:29,076 --> 01:13:31,956
Speaker 2: you know. So there were all these broken branches. The

1396
01:13:31,956 --> 01:13:34,796
Speaker 2: weight of the ice would break branches and so the

1397
01:13:34,836 --> 01:13:37,196
Speaker 2: side of the road was littered with these branches. Okay,

1398
01:13:37,516 --> 01:13:43,876
Speaker 2: broken branches Dorian swerved to the right, and a branch

1399
01:13:44,596 --> 01:13:50,276
Speaker 2: happened to be exactly at his head height, pierced through

1400
01:13:50,276 --> 01:13:52,276
Speaker 2: the windshield and hit him in the head and that

1401
01:13:52,396 --> 01:13:55,236
Speaker 2: was it. Instant, didn't feel a thing, didn't even probably

1402
01:13:55,236 --> 01:14:01,276
Speaker 2: know what the hell happened. And so the girl in

1403
01:14:01,316 --> 01:14:07,156
Speaker 2: the red car basically saw him swerve, but also thought

1404
01:14:07,236 --> 01:14:10,236
Speaker 2: that maybe he just turned into a dry and then

1405
01:14:10,276 --> 01:14:13,356
Speaker 2: when she went by him, she saw no, there's like

1406
01:14:13,396 --> 01:14:16,476
Speaker 2: a car in the woods, and so she freaked out,

1407
01:14:16,556 --> 01:14:18,556
Speaker 2: called nine one one, Thank god she was there. She

1408
01:14:18,916 --> 01:14:22,076
Speaker 2: you know, called nine one one. They said the black

1409
01:14:22,116 --> 01:14:24,476
Speaker 2: truck might not even know what happened, like it could

1410
01:14:24,476 --> 01:14:27,796
Speaker 2: have been just like kind of didn't see what was going, like, oh,

1411
01:14:27,916 --> 01:14:29,796
Speaker 2: kind of swerved and then you know, you don't think

1412
01:14:29,836 --> 01:14:31,716
Speaker 2: that like just a little action is going to like

1413
01:14:31,876 --> 01:14:35,356
Speaker 2: kill someone. So we don't know who was driving the

1414
01:14:35,356 --> 01:14:37,916
Speaker 2: black truck. And like, also it's probably good we don't know,

1415
01:14:37,996 --> 01:14:40,796
Speaker 2: like I don't, you know, like that's just it is

1416
01:14:40,836 --> 01:14:43,876
Speaker 2: what it is, and hopefully they don't have any clue.

1417
01:14:44,036 --> 01:14:46,436
Speaker 2: That'd be a lot better to live with just not knowing.

1418
01:14:47,436 --> 01:14:51,436
Speaker 2: So yeah, so that was when my life really changed.

1419
01:14:51,876 --> 01:14:55,196
Speaker 2: Driving home, the three of us instead of the four

1420
01:14:55,236 --> 01:15:01,076
Speaker 2: of us, you know, wof And finally one of the

1421
01:15:01,116 --> 01:15:04,716
Speaker 2: guys let me go see him. It's like, I have

1422
01:15:04,756 --> 01:15:07,436
Speaker 2: to see him. And they apparently when they got to

1423
01:15:07,436 --> 01:15:09,556
Speaker 2: the scene, they tried to resuscitate him. He was so

1424
01:15:09,676 --> 01:15:12,996
Speaker 2: gone instantly, but they had him in the middle of

1425
01:15:12,996 --> 01:15:17,636
Speaker 2: the road covered in a blanket, and I lifted the blanket,

1426
01:15:17,676 --> 01:15:22,116
Speaker 2: I saw him and kissed him, and then the judge came,

1427
01:15:22,196 --> 01:15:26,436
Speaker 2: the local Hayes County judge to pronounce him dead. It's

1428
01:15:26,476 --> 01:15:29,076
Speaker 2: like all the craziest stuff, you know that I find

1429
01:15:29,076 --> 01:15:33,796
Speaker 2: myself saying, like this stuff, it's unbelievable. I mean, everyone's

1430
01:15:33,836 --> 01:15:35,916
Speaker 2: devastated at this scene. You know, I just lost my

1431
01:15:36,036 --> 01:15:39,676
Speaker 2: sixteen year old son. And the judge said, if you

1432
01:15:39,716 --> 01:15:44,036
Speaker 2: need anything, twenty four to seven, here's my cell phone.

1433
01:15:44,236 --> 01:15:46,796
Speaker 2: And then of course they're like, what are we doing

1434
01:15:46,836 --> 01:15:49,716
Speaker 2: with the body? And I'm like, well, god, like, I

1435
01:15:49,756 --> 01:15:51,356
Speaker 2: don't even know what we're doing with my parents when

1436
01:15:51,396 --> 01:15:53,916
Speaker 2: they die, like, let alone my son. So I need

1437
01:15:53,916 --> 01:15:58,836
Speaker 2: to think this through. Now this is really weird. Rewind

1438
01:15:58,956 --> 01:16:03,916
Speaker 2: four years. We're here, we just bought the property, and

1439
01:16:04,916 --> 01:16:07,076
Speaker 2: we're hanging with my mom and dad and we're talking

1440
01:16:07,076 --> 01:16:09,916
Speaker 2: about end of life, you know, we're talking about. Okay, Mom, Dad,

1441
01:16:09,916 --> 01:16:11,276
Speaker 2: like what do you guys, Like, where do you want

1442
01:16:11,316 --> 01:16:13,836
Speaker 2: to be buried? Like, you know, in the spiritual side

1443
01:16:13,876 --> 01:16:16,116
Speaker 2: of me. And I think the way I am is

1444
01:16:16,156 --> 01:16:18,796
Speaker 2: because I'm an artist and I've lived in chaos my

1445
01:16:18,836 --> 01:16:21,556
Speaker 2: whole life since i was a kid thrown into music.

1446
01:16:22,236 --> 01:16:26,996
Speaker 2: I really crave order and a schedule and a routine

1447
01:16:27,196 --> 01:16:31,396
Speaker 2: and consistency. I really crave it, you know, So conversations

1448
01:16:31,436 --> 01:16:32,916
Speaker 2: like this is kind of I think part of me

1449
01:16:33,036 --> 01:16:36,756
Speaker 2: trying to like know what the hell's happening. So having

1450
01:16:36,756 --> 01:16:39,396
Speaker 2: this conversation with my mom and dad, like, well, we

1451
01:16:39,476 --> 01:16:42,716
Speaker 2: got these two plots up in Maryland, you know. I'm like,

1452
01:16:42,716 --> 01:16:45,036
Speaker 2: well that sounds lame, like I don't know, And I

1453
01:16:45,076 --> 01:16:47,316
Speaker 2: was like why. I know, Like I've heard of like

1454
01:16:47,516 --> 01:16:51,036
Speaker 2: family cemeteries out in Texas, you know, like on ranches

1455
01:16:51,076 --> 01:16:54,116
Speaker 2: and stuff, and so I started looking into it four

1456
01:16:54,196 --> 01:16:58,236
Speaker 2: years ago and I'm like reading the criteria and I'm like, okay,

1457
01:16:58,276 --> 01:17:01,516
Speaker 2: like we check all the points, like you have to

1458
01:17:01,556 --> 01:17:04,476
Speaker 2: when when you create a cemetery on your property, you

1459
01:17:04,556 --> 01:17:08,116
Speaker 2: have to basically section it off and survey it. It

1460
01:17:08,316 --> 01:17:13,036
Speaker 2: becomes a detached from your property and becomes Parkland, Texas state. Well,

1461
01:17:13,076 --> 01:17:15,436
Speaker 2: it's private parkland, but it's part of the state of

1462
01:17:15,476 --> 01:17:18,356
Speaker 2: Texas at that point because like who knows what happens

1463
01:17:18,396 --> 01:17:21,716
Speaker 2: to your property, but the cemetery is forever told my

1464
01:17:21,836 --> 01:17:24,076
Speaker 2: parents and Liz, I'm like, dude, we could actually do

1465
01:17:24,156 --> 01:17:27,516
Speaker 2: like this family cemetery. And they're like really, like that's

1466
01:17:27,596 --> 01:17:29,836
Speaker 2: a little morbid. I'm like yeah, but like it could

1467
01:17:29,916 --> 01:17:31,956
Speaker 2: be a thing, like then we'll all know like where

1468
01:17:31,956 --> 01:17:35,076
Speaker 2: we're buried. And and the boys loved this, by the way,

1469
01:17:35,196 --> 01:17:38,356
Speaker 2: like Judah and Dorian were all about having a cemetery

1470
01:17:38,636 --> 01:17:40,636
Speaker 2: because they were like, oh in like ghost stories and

1471
01:17:40,716 --> 01:17:43,956
Speaker 2: like you know, like just like cool like boyshit, you know,

1472
01:17:44,196 --> 01:17:49,116
Speaker 2: kids stuff. And so we actually hiked around, the three

1473
01:17:49,156 --> 01:17:52,676
Speaker 2: of us to like try to find our spot. And

1474
01:17:52,796 --> 01:18:00,116
Speaker 2: so we seriously found a great spot for our family cemetery. Okay,

1475
01:18:00,516 --> 01:18:02,836
Speaker 2: that was years ago. Then everyone's like, dude, kind of

1476
01:18:02,836 --> 01:18:04,476
Speaker 2: give up them, and I'm like, you're right, it's a

1477
01:18:04,476 --> 01:18:08,036
Speaker 2: little weird. So I moved on from that. So we're

1478
01:18:08,076 --> 01:18:10,316
Speaker 2: driving home, We're like, what the fuck do we do?

1479
01:18:10,996 --> 01:18:13,756
Speaker 2: And Liz said, well, we should call the rabbi. And

1480
01:18:13,796 --> 01:18:16,236
Speaker 2: that's when you realize like, oh yeah, like priests and

1481
01:18:16,316 --> 01:18:19,436
Speaker 2: rabbis like, no matter what you think, times like this

1482
01:18:19,476 --> 01:18:21,956
Speaker 2: is when you realize they serve a really good role

1483
01:18:22,076 --> 01:18:25,796
Speaker 2: in this world, you know. Yes, And so we called

1484
01:18:25,876 --> 01:18:31,036
Speaker 2: Rabbi Folberg, who bar Mitzvah Dorian, who's been part of

1485
01:18:31,076 --> 01:18:33,316
Speaker 2: our lives ever since we moved to Austin, you know,

1486
01:18:33,356 --> 01:18:36,556
Speaker 2: since he was a little baby. So I called Rabbi Folbrog.

1487
01:18:36,596 --> 01:18:39,316
Speaker 2: I'm like, you're not going to believe this. Dorian's dead

1488
01:18:39,756 --> 01:18:45,436
Speaker 2: car crash. And so he introduced me to this funeral director, Mitzi,

1489
01:18:45,556 --> 01:18:48,356
Speaker 2: who is incredible through the process. And so I get

1490
01:18:48,396 --> 01:18:52,236
Speaker 2: on the phone with Mitzi and she's like, oh, Austin's

1491
01:18:52,356 --> 01:18:58,236
Speaker 2: very populated cemeteries. She's like, I'm like, this is kind

1492
01:18:58,236 --> 01:19:00,836
Speaker 2: of weird, but like, have you ever done a family burial,

1493
01:19:00,956 --> 01:19:03,476
Speaker 2: like on people's property? And she's like, oh, I did

1494
01:19:03,516 --> 01:19:06,676
Speaker 2: one in West Texas. Once I said, well, I know

1495
01:19:06,716 --> 01:19:09,796
Speaker 2: this sounds weird, but like I already know I researched

1496
01:19:09,796 --> 01:19:12,356
Speaker 2: this a few years ago and I know that we

1497
01:19:12,636 --> 01:19:16,596
Speaker 2: qualify to do it. She's like, oh, well, that takes

1498
01:19:16,956 --> 01:19:19,436
Speaker 2: like months, you know, to approve for the state to

1499
01:19:19,476 --> 01:19:23,316
Speaker 2: approve something like that, and She's like, but you told

1500
01:19:23,316 --> 01:19:26,356
Speaker 2: me that judge gave you his number and said call

1501
01:19:26,436 --> 01:19:29,916
Speaker 2: him twenty four to seven. He's like, if anyone can

1502
01:19:30,076 --> 01:19:32,156
Speaker 2: make something like this happen, it would be that judge.

1503
01:19:32,156 --> 01:19:34,716
Speaker 2: So it's like, okay, So I called the judge of

1504
01:19:34,756 --> 01:19:40,156
Speaker 2: Hayes County and I said, Judge, it's mister Queller, Dorian's dad.

1505
01:19:40,596 --> 01:19:43,476
Speaker 2: I know, you know this is a little strange, but

1506
01:19:44,636 --> 01:19:47,276
Speaker 2: we can do a family cemetery on our property. I

1507
01:19:47,396 --> 01:19:50,476
Speaker 2: just I never set that up, you know, like it's

1508
01:19:50,556 --> 01:19:53,636
Speaker 2: that is we want to bury him here on the ranch,

1509
01:19:54,236 --> 01:19:59,756
Speaker 2: can we? He said, ah, he said, dude, that takes months.

1510
01:19:59,996 --> 01:20:01,636
Speaker 2: You know. He's like telling me the same thing. He's like,

1511
01:20:02,196 --> 01:20:04,196
Speaker 2: but he said, let me make a call. We'll get

1512
01:20:04,196 --> 01:20:06,196
Speaker 2: back to you. So an hour later, the judge calls

1513
01:20:06,236 --> 01:20:09,116
Speaker 2: me and says, mister Queller, your son was so important

1514
01:20:09,196 --> 01:20:12,596
Speaker 2: of this community. The state of Texas is going to

1515
01:20:12,676 --> 01:20:15,236
Speaker 2: green light this. Just get him into the ground and

1516
01:20:15,276 --> 01:20:19,996
Speaker 2: we'll deal with the paperwork later. And that was the

1517
01:20:20,036 --> 01:20:24,076
Speaker 2: first moment where I felt like I could control something.

1518
01:20:24,796 --> 01:20:29,076
Speaker 2: Because when something like this happens and it shatters you

1519
01:20:29,196 --> 01:20:33,196
Speaker 2: so wide open, it's complete chaos, and it shows you

1520
01:20:33,236 --> 01:20:37,356
Speaker 2: how little control we have over anything, and so for

1521
01:20:37,436 --> 01:20:39,476
Speaker 2: me to be able to call a shot, you know,

1522
01:20:41,156 --> 01:20:45,236
Speaker 2: was like just it was everything in that moment for me.

1523
01:20:46,516 --> 01:20:49,716
Speaker 2: And so then Jewish custom, you know, you're supposed to

1524
01:20:49,716 --> 01:20:52,236
Speaker 2: get the body in the ground pretty quick, twenty four hours.

1525
01:20:52,236 --> 01:20:54,876
Speaker 2: We don't do embalming or anything. You go in a

1526
01:20:54,956 --> 01:20:57,956
Speaker 2: pine box that just you know, goes back into the earth.

1527
01:20:58,076 --> 01:21:02,596
Speaker 2: Very simple, very you know. And so I called Mitzi

1528
01:21:02,636 --> 01:21:05,156
Speaker 2: from the funeral home. I said, and I'm like, well,

1529
01:21:05,196 --> 01:21:09,636
Speaker 2: who who digs the grave? You know? And she's like, well,

1530
01:21:09,756 --> 01:21:12,036
Speaker 2: you really just need someone who can dig. She's like

1531
01:21:12,356 --> 01:21:14,436
Speaker 2: there's a specific measurements. She's like she's rattling off the

1532
01:21:14,436 --> 01:21:16,556
Speaker 2: measure She's like it needs to be like seven feet long,

1533
01:21:16,636 --> 01:21:18,916
Speaker 2: by this and by this depth, you know, real deep.

1534
01:21:19,836 --> 01:21:21,276
Speaker 2: And I was like, I know who I'm gonna call.

1535
01:21:22,076 --> 01:21:26,436
Speaker 2: Bobby Stevens, the dude who moved the house here, who

1536
01:21:26,436 --> 01:21:32,396
Speaker 2: moved the barn here. Yeah, he exactly. So I called

1537
01:21:32,476 --> 01:21:35,556
Speaker 2: Bobby Stevens and word it guy. I mean people knew

1538
01:21:35,556 --> 01:21:37,436
Speaker 2: at this point. This is maybe a two days later

1539
01:21:37,516 --> 01:21:42,116
Speaker 2: or something. And I called Bob, having, Bobby, have you

1540
01:21:42,156 --> 01:21:45,876
Speaker 2: ever dug a grave before? And He's like I can't

1541
01:21:45,916 --> 01:21:49,796
Speaker 2: say I have, but I would for you. And I

1542
01:21:49,916 --> 01:21:52,156
Speaker 2: was like, I just start crying. I'm like, oh, Bobby,

1543
01:21:52,436 --> 01:21:55,636
Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, dude, bring your whatever, your back

1544
01:21:55,676 --> 01:21:58,876
Speaker 2: ho or tractors, you know, your digger, bring it over,

1545
01:21:58,996 --> 01:22:02,716
Speaker 2: you know. And dude, that guy dug the grave. So

1546
01:22:02,796 --> 01:22:04,836
Speaker 2: before you leave, we'll walk over to that spot. I'll

1547
01:22:04,876 --> 01:22:10,196
Speaker 2: show you. So now this is acred land like it

1548
01:22:10,316 --> 01:22:14,076
Speaker 2: already was, but it's like it's like such another level

1549
01:22:14,876 --> 01:22:18,876
Speaker 2: for me to be creative here and like and Dorian

1550
01:22:18,996 --> 01:22:21,276
Speaker 2: was just trying to get home and so we were

1551
01:22:21,316 --> 01:22:22,836
Speaker 2: able to bring him home and he's here so we

1552
01:22:22,836 --> 01:22:25,676
Speaker 2: can go sit with them. You know. We got his

1553
01:22:25,756 --> 01:22:28,276
Speaker 2: picture up over the door. He's always looking down on

1554
01:22:28,356 --> 01:22:31,596
Speaker 2: us and so yeah, he's still with me.

1555
01:22:31,796 --> 01:22:31,996
Speaker 3: You know.

1556
01:22:33,676 --> 01:22:40,356
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Bankweller. How did you

1557
01:22:40,396 --> 01:22:45,476
Speaker 1: guys as a family process or not process or continue on?

1558
01:22:47,076 --> 01:22:53,236
Speaker 2: Well, they say God only gives us the things we

1559
01:22:53,276 --> 01:22:59,316
Speaker 2: can handle. And I believe that. It's really funny, like

1560
01:22:59,396 --> 01:23:02,836
Speaker 2: all the cliches and you find as a father, like

1561
01:23:02,876 --> 01:23:04,916
Speaker 2: you know, it's there's so many cliches you hear, like

1562
01:23:06,756 --> 01:23:10,316
Speaker 2: when you you know, have kids, like oh, someone will

1563
01:23:10,316 --> 01:23:12,716
Speaker 2: tell you you're having your first baby, and they're like, oh, man,

1564
01:23:13,076 --> 01:23:15,356
Speaker 2: savor every moment, and you're like, hey, you know, but

1565
01:23:15,476 --> 01:23:19,076
Speaker 2: like all the cliches are so true. You know, That's

1566
01:23:19,116 --> 01:23:22,036
Speaker 2: what you realize as you get older, right, and just like.

1567
01:23:22,076 --> 01:23:25,836
Speaker 1: The priests and rabbis, Yeah, you sometimes lived your life

1568
01:23:25,996 --> 01:23:27,316
Speaker 1: not considering them.

1569
01:23:27,316 --> 01:23:31,156
Speaker 2: No, but like actually like not liking them and whatever reason.

1570
01:23:30,916 --> 01:23:33,076
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, And then you realize there's

1571
01:23:33,116 --> 01:23:36,356
Speaker 1: a moment where you need them, and cliches like tradition

1572
01:23:36,436 --> 01:23:40,036
Speaker 1: in that way, cliches are really this just universal thing glee.

1573
01:23:40,356 --> 01:23:43,876
Speaker 2: And so there's that one. You know, someone told us,

1574
01:23:43,916 --> 01:23:46,436
Speaker 2: you know, well, God only gives us things we can handle,

1575
01:23:46,556 --> 01:23:53,076
Speaker 2: and and maybe that's true, and maybe it was always written.

1576
01:23:53,236 --> 01:23:56,076
Speaker 2: You know that Dorian was only going to live to

1577
01:23:56,076 --> 01:23:59,916
Speaker 2: be sixteen. And luckily Liz and I were so strong

1578
01:23:59,956 --> 01:24:02,836
Speaker 2: and our bond with Judah and Judah and Dorian were

1579
01:24:02,916 --> 01:24:05,516
Speaker 2: so close. And my mom has a theory that we

1580
01:24:05,636 --> 01:24:09,036
Speaker 2: choose our parents like that, like you know, before you

1581
01:24:09,156 --> 01:24:11,676
Speaker 2: you're born, you get kind of they're like, hey, you

1582
01:24:11,716 --> 01:24:16,116
Speaker 2: can go to these parents or these parents, and you

1583
01:24:16,196 --> 01:24:18,636
Speaker 2: kind of get your soul gets to decide, and so

1584
01:24:18,676 --> 01:24:21,956
Speaker 2: it's kind of this interesting fun game to kind of

1585
01:24:22,116 --> 01:24:25,156
Speaker 2: think through of, Like, so Dorian souls about to come

1586
01:24:25,196 --> 01:24:29,036
Speaker 2: to earth and they're like, well, so there's this Ben

1587
01:24:29,036 --> 01:24:31,796
Speaker 2: and Liz. You know, the dad's a musician. You always

1588
01:24:32,076 --> 01:24:34,396
Speaker 2: wanted to be a musician and you weren't able to

1589
01:24:34,436 --> 01:24:37,476
Speaker 2: really do it in your past lives. But this one's

1590
01:24:37,516 --> 01:24:39,996
Speaker 2: gonna could be really good for you. Dorian. You're gonna

1591
01:24:40,036 --> 01:24:44,836
Speaker 2: have this little brother, Judah you're gonna really love. But

1592
01:24:44,956 --> 01:24:46,996
Speaker 2: the bummer is you're only going to live to be sixteen,

1593
01:24:47,116 --> 01:24:49,196
Speaker 2: you know, So it's gonna be like a short bang

1594
01:24:49,516 --> 01:24:51,796
Speaker 2: like you know, but dude, you're gonna do so much

1595
01:24:52,516 --> 01:24:55,356
Speaker 2: and you're gonna make such a big impact, and that

1596
01:24:55,476 --> 01:24:57,716
Speaker 2: Judah is gonna be good. Like we're making it where

1597
01:24:57,796 --> 01:24:59,916
Speaker 2: Judah is going to be really strong so he'll be

1598
01:24:59,956 --> 01:25:02,436
Speaker 2: able to handle this. Your parents have already been through

1599
01:25:02,436 --> 01:25:05,956
Speaker 2: dimer tragedies. You know, your mom lost her mom when

1600
01:25:05,956 --> 01:25:09,396
Speaker 2: she was eight. So like that, I like to kind

1601
01:25:09,436 --> 01:25:12,916
Speaker 2: of game that out. It's again, it lets me feel

1602
01:25:12,956 --> 01:25:16,036
Speaker 2: like everything is okay because it was meant to be

1603
01:25:16,156 --> 01:25:16,596
Speaker 2: that way.

1604
01:25:16,956 --> 01:25:19,916
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's a really beautiful thought.

1605
01:25:20,356 --> 01:25:21,716
Speaker 2: So yeah, how did we handle it?

1606
01:25:21,836 --> 01:25:22,036
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1607
01:25:22,156 --> 01:25:24,876
Speaker 2: We just one step at a time, one breath at

1608
01:25:24,916 --> 01:25:25,516
Speaker 2: a time.

1609
01:25:26,156 --> 01:25:30,556
Speaker 1: As a musician, How did it impact you creatively?

1610
01:25:31,276 --> 01:25:37,636
Speaker 2: So immediately, absolutely zero drive or desire to create anything.

1611
01:25:38,276 --> 01:25:42,276
Speaker 2: That's actually thinking about cliches. That's actually one cliche that's

1612
01:25:42,276 --> 01:25:44,436
Speaker 2: always been false, at least for me, you know, the

1613
01:25:44,436 --> 01:25:46,716
Speaker 2: one where they say, ah, to make good art, you

1614
01:25:46,756 --> 01:25:49,716
Speaker 2: got to be depressed and fucked up, and I may

1615
01:25:49,836 --> 01:25:52,356
Speaker 2: I don't even make art if I'm depressed and fucked up.

1616
01:25:52,756 --> 01:25:54,676
Speaker 2: I actually have to be in a good state of mind.

1617
01:25:55,076 --> 01:25:58,276
Speaker 2: So when this all went down, I'm just on the couch,

1618
01:25:58,356 --> 01:26:02,436
Speaker 2: like we're just mourning and it's so horrible. And so

1619
01:26:03,276 --> 01:26:06,476
Speaker 2: I think it was only you know, maybe a few

1620
01:26:06,516 --> 01:26:09,876
Speaker 2: months later when when song ideas start coming to me

1621
01:26:10,876 --> 01:26:14,196
Speaker 2: and I wanted that music. Songwriting has just been the

1622
01:26:14,236 --> 01:26:17,516
Speaker 2: one thing in my life since I was eight years old.

1623
01:26:18,156 --> 01:26:22,196
Speaker 2: That's been the constant, you know, through everything, and so

1624
01:26:22,316 --> 01:26:24,756
Speaker 2: I was really happy when a melody came to me

1625
01:26:24,876 --> 01:26:28,356
Speaker 2: or a phrase idea or something. I'd walk out to

1626
01:26:28,436 --> 01:26:31,516
Speaker 2: the grave, you know, be like, dude, send me some songs, man, Like,

1627
01:26:31,596 --> 01:26:34,356
Speaker 2: send me some cool ideas. Dude, Like let's keep this going,

1628
01:26:34,916 --> 01:26:38,956
Speaker 2: you know, like let's write a song together, you know.

1629
01:26:39,436 --> 01:26:43,556
Speaker 2: And so I would. I started writing, and so that

1630
01:26:43,596 --> 01:26:46,796
Speaker 2: became this new album which is called Cover the Mirrors,

1631
01:26:47,556 --> 01:26:52,236
Speaker 2: and I call it sort of a moody album, but

1632
01:26:52,316 --> 01:26:55,716
Speaker 2: maybe it's not. I'm really bad at talking about my music.

1633
01:26:55,956 --> 01:26:59,676
Speaker 2: I really know nothing, but to me, it's a moody,

1634
01:26:59,876 --> 01:27:02,556
Speaker 2: sort of down tempo album. There are some rockers and

1635
01:27:02,596 --> 01:27:05,596
Speaker 2: there's some like up tempo things, but generally for me,

1636
01:27:05,676 --> 01:27:07,676
Speaker 2: it's definitely like a somber feeling.

1637
01:27:08,196 --> 01:27:12,156
Speaker 1: Do the songs directly deal with your loss.

1638
01:27:11,996 --> 01:27:16,916
Speaker 2: Or yeah, yeah, I think they all do. They all

1639
01:27:17,076 --> 01:27:21,436
Speaker 2: definitely to me touch on all the aspects of what

1640
01:27:21,476 --> 01:27:24,956
Speaker 2: I've gone through since losing him. The casual list and

1641
01:27:25,036 --> 01:27:28,036
Speaker 2: you might not hear every reference being like, oh yeah,

1642
01:27:28,076 --> 01:27:32,316
Speaker 2: that's about he lost his son, but it is. You know,

1643
01:27:32,516 --> 01:27:36,196
Speaker 2: still I have most of the same emotions that I

1644
01:27:36,196 --> 01:27:39,196
Speaker 2: did prior to losing him. It's just this big wound

1645
01:27:39,236 --> 01:27:41,716
Speaker 2: in my heart, you know, that's the difference now. But

1646
01:27:41,756 --> 01:27:47,236
Speaker 2: I'm still like the same guy. And talking to other

1647
01:27:47,316 --> 01:27:51,516
Speaker 2: people that lost children has been a great help for me.

1648
01:27:52,436 --> 01:27:55,836
Speaker 2: And there's one guy that I spoke to and he

1649
01:27:55,956 --> 01:27:58,676
Speaker 2: told me something really interesting that was, you know, I

1650
01:27:58,716 --> 01:28:01,836
Speaker 2: hate to tell you this, but but like now you

1651
01:28:01,876 --> 01:28:04,876
Speaker 2: have a superpower. You never wanted it, but you have

1652
01:28:04,956 --> 01:28:08,916
Speaker 2: it now. And what it is is like your normal

1653
01:28:09,116 --> 01:28:12,516
Speaker 2: happiness scale, Like happiness is kind of here up here,

1654
01:28:12,836 --> 01:28:16,916
Speaker 2: and your sadness is like down here. But now your

1655
01:28:16,996 --> 01:28:20,916
Speaker 2: happiness is way up here, but your sadness is way

1656
01:28:20,956 --> 01:28:29,396
Speaker 2: down there. And also your like spectrum band of empathy

1657
01:28:29,556 --> 01:28:32,556
Speaker 2: has just increased. And so like it's like this weird

1658
01:28:33,076 --> 01:28:36,076
Speaker 2: like what you've lost everything, but you've also gained this

1659
01:28:36,156 --> 01:28:39,316
Speaker 2: new superpower. That's always explaining it to me. It's kind

1660
01:28:39,356 --> 01:28:43,316
Speaker 2: of interesting because I feel that, and so it's kind

1661
01:28:43,316 --> 01:28:46,356
Speaker 2: of been fascinating too, like just in the songwriting process too,

1662
01:28:46,356 --> 01:28:48,956
Speaker 2: and just like lyrics and I don't know, they hit

1663
01:28:48,996 --> 01:28:52,596
Speaker 2: differently from me, you know, certain ideas and concepts.

1664
01:28:53,356 --> 01:28:58,756
Speaker 1: Well, I mean the new album is really it's really beautiful,

1665
01:28:58,996 --> 01:29:02,916
Speaker 1: you know, thank you, not only just the writing, but

1666
01:29:03,196 --> 01:29:07,396
Speaker 1: there's a depth that sonically and in your voice and

1667
01:29:07,396 --> 01:29:09,916
Speaker 1: in the chords and yeah, just anthing to it that's

1668
01:29:09,956 --> 01:29:13,356
Speaker 1: really just sounds gorgeous.

1669
01:29:13,836 --> 01:29:15,036
Speaker 2: Oh well, thank you.

1670
01:29:15,676 --> 01:29:18,956
Speaker 1: Would you mind if you're up for playing breaks?

1671
01:29:19,756 --> 01:29:20,836
Speaker 2: Whoa Breaks?

1672
01:29:20,876 --> 01:29:22,956
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite songs from it so far.

1673
01:29:23,116 --> 01:29:25,476
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm so.

1674
01:29:25,476 --> 01:29:28,876
Speaker 2: Happy you want to hear this one because I've actually

1675
01:29:28,916 --> 01:29:31,636
Speaker 2: never performed it before, so this is the first time

1676
01:29:32,796 --> 01:29:36,556
Speaker 2: to sing this for anybody. This is called breaks.

1677
01:29:38,196 --> 01:29:44,396
Speaker 3: When you think about being away from you want to

1678
01:29:46,956 --> 01:29:53,996
Speaker 3: you convince yourself it'll be okay, but it's not being

1679
01:29:54,316 --> 01:30:05,716
Speaker 3: u at first, it's enough, but time makes it.

1680
01:30:05,716 --> 01:30:08,316
Speaker 4: It's the breaks. It always breaks a.

1681
01:30:10,396 --> 01:30:13,956
Speaker 3: It's the breaks, it always breaks the hard.

1682
01:30:15,116 --> 01:30:15,996
Speaker 4: It's the ticks.

1683
01:30:16,076 --> 01:30:21,356
Speaker 3: It always takes, feeling that wakes, the moment that the

1684
01:30:21,556 --> 01:30:34,156
Speaker 3: falls a pr Yeah, A word sounds sweet. On the

1685
01:30:34,236 --> 01:30:43,556
Speaker 3: other end of that line, I'm paralyzed by the state

1686
01:30:43,756 --> 01:30:47,196
Speaker 3: arm in lou it's in.

1687
01:30:47,316 --> 01:30:50,556
Speaker 4: My mind, my crag.

1688
01:30:51,916 --> 01:30:57,436
Speaker 5: Z min crazy haze in mind.

1689
01:30:58,996 --> 01:31:02,356
Speaker 3: It's the breaks, it always breaks the hard.

1690
01:31:03,556 --> 01:31:08,996
Speaker 4: It's the breaks, it always breaks. The hart. It's the text.

1691
01:31:09,276 --> 01:31:13,036
Speaker 3: It always takes, the feeling that at a wakes, the

1692
01:31:13,196 --> 01:31:26,796
Speaker 3: moment that it falls apart. Yeah, walking hotel always like

1693
01:31:26,956 --> 01:31:35,716
Speaker 3: Olympic tracks, shoot after shoot, talking to myself to stop

1694
01:31:35,796 --> 01:31:40,596
Speaker 3: and stretch my back, just boiling for you.

1695
01:31:44,596 --> 01:31:51,836
Speaker 4: For two There's absolutely nothing I can do because it's

1696
01:31:51,916 --> 01:31:52,516
Speaker 4: the breaks.

1697
01:31:52,596 --> 01:31:57,876
Speaker 3: It always breaks the hart. It's the breaks, it always

1698
01:31:57,996 --> 01:32:03,396
Speaker 3: breaks the hard. It's the takes, it always takes the

1699
01:32:03,476 --> 01:32:06,876
Speaker 3: feeling that awakes the moment.

1700
01:32:06,556 --> 01:32:09,236
Speaker 4: That it falls Apard.

1701
01:32:10,396 --> 01:32:18,876
Speaker 5: Yeah, same phone call.

1702
01:32:19,116 --> 01:32:20,716
Speaker 4: What you do today?

1703
01:32:21,956 --> 01:32:22,196
Speaker 5: Cool?

1704
01:32:23,436 --> 01:32:29,276
Speaker 3: Gotta go? How could all those hours give us nothing

1705
01:32:29,436 --> 01:32:33,436
Speaker 3: to say? I never know.

1706
01:32:35,236 --> 01:32:36,116
Speaker 4: My day.

1707
01:32:37,516 --> 01:32:44,036
Speaker 3: Move slow still, they give me nothing. I can't show you.

1708
01:32:44,556 --> 01:32:46,836
Speaker 3: But the breaks it always breaks.

1709
01:32:46,956 --> 01:32:51,556
Speaker 4: The harr Yeah, the breaks, it always breaks.

1710
01:32:51,676 --> 01:32:52,636
Speaker 5: The harr.

1711
01:32:53,956 --> 01:32:54,916
Speaker 4: It's the takes.

1712
01:32:54,956 --> 01:32:59,836
Speaker 3: It always takes, the feeling that awakes the moment that

1713
01:33:00,116 --> 01:33:12,196
Speaker 3: it falls. Oh yeah, I want to see the world

1714
01:33:12,356 --> 01:33:20,396
Speaker 3: through your eyes again. Want my friend standing by, Wanna

1715
01:33:20,556 --> 01:33:26,436
Speaker 3: touch a body, Wanna kiss your skin, tuck in, nest

1716
01:33:26,556 --> 01:33:32,676
Speaker 3: on mine, hand on your chest, and cry.

1717
01:33:34,516 --> 01:33:38,396
Speaker 4: Cry baby cry.

1718
01:33:38,676 --> 01:33:44,476
Speaker 3: It's the breaks, it always breaks, the hard. It's the breaks,

1719
01:33:44,556 --> 01:33:50,756
Speaker 3: it always breaks, the hard. It's the tikes, it always takes,

1720
01:33:50,836 --> 01:33:58,116
Speaker 3: the feeling that awakes the moment day falls apart. It's

1721
01:33:58,116 --> 01:34:03,236
Speaker 3: the breaks, it always breaks. The hard Yeah, the breaks,

1722
01:34:03,316 --> 01:34:05,436
Speaker 3: it always breaks the hard.

1723
01:34:06,836 --> 01:34:10,076
Speaker 4: It's the eggs and make you feel the wounds that

1724
01:34:10,276 --> 01:34:11,236
Speaker 4: want to heal.

1725
01:34:11,396 --> 01:34:13,476
Speaker 2: From way too much time.

1726
01:34:13,716 --> 01:34:28,836
Speaker 7: Apall cry, Babby cry, cry babyaby, cry, cry Babby crying.

1727
01:34:30,956 --> 01:34:39,956
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really beautiful man, Thank you for requesting

1728
01:34:40,036 --> 01:34:43,796
Speaker 1: that one. That song. It's like it's like the course

1729
01:34:43,916 --> 01:34:47,036
Speaker 1: is already good. With the it's the breaks always break.

1730
01:34:47,156 --> 01:34:48,596
Speaker 1: I mean, I love that.

1731
01:34:48,716 --> 01:34:50,916
Speaker 2: I don't even know, like grammatically if it even makes

1732
01:34:50,996 --> 01:34:53,556
Speaker 2: itse like. But so I've like thought this through, you know,

1733
01:34:53,676 --> 01:34:56,276
Speaker 2: because I got called out on a song once. I

1734
01:34:56,356 --> 01:34:59,036
Speaker 2: was hanging out with some friends and William H. Macy

1735
01:34:59,196 --> 01:35:02,356
Speaker 2: was there. Oh I love this guy, legend Yeah, And

1736
01:35:02,396 --> 01:35:07,396
Speaker 2: I played my song Run, and in the chorus of Run,

1737
01:35:08,116 --> 01:35:12,236
Speaker 2: it says, since I I was fifteen, I have ran

1738
01:35:13,116 --> 01:35:17,196
Speaker 2: everywhere you can run, and Macy was like, I don't

1739
01:35:17,236 --> 01:35:21,196
Speaker 2: know if that's correct. Since I was fifteen, I have ran.

1740
01:35:21,956 --> 01:35:26,436
Speaker 2: It's I have run everywhere. But but I have ran

1741
01:35:26,636 --> 01:35:29,636
Speaker 2: sounded so much better than run, do you know what

1742
01:35:29,676 --> 01:35:32,396
Speaker 2: I mean? And so now ever since then, I'm like

1743
01:35:32,556 --> 01:35:34,836
Speaker 2: really think through my lyrics in a different ways. I

1744
01:35:34,836 --> 01:35:38,316
Speaker 2: always think of Macy And so with the breaks, that

1745
01:35:38,436 --> 01:35:42,156
Speaker 2: always breaks the heart. So I'm calling the song breaks

1746
01:35:42,236 --> 01:35:44,956
Speaker 2: b R a k e s like the breaks of

1747
01:35:44,956 --> 01:35:48,596
Speaker 2: a car, you know, like the stopping of it. And

1748
01:35:48,636 --> 01:35:53,476
Speaker 2: then it's those breaks like it's the stops right right

1749
01:35:53,596 --> 01:35:58,316
Speaker 2: that then breaks b our eaks heart. So That's where

1750
01:35:58,316 --> 01:36:00,076
Speaker 2: I'm coming at it from.

1751
01:36:00,916 --> 01:36:05,836
Speaker 1: That bit is so loaded, but then it goes somewhere else,

1752
01:36:05,876 --> 01:36:09,716
Speaker 1: and so then it becomes even like this more rich

1753
01:36:09,796 --> 01:36:12,796
Speaker 1: song because it because in the the changes on the

1754
01:36:13,236 --> 01:36:15,556
Speaker 1: it's the takes that I was taken. It's do lyrically,

1755
01:36:15,556 --> 01:36:16,236
Speaker 1: but it takes.

1756
01:36:16,116 --> 01:36:19,756
Speaker 2: Changes, takes the feelings that awakes, the moment that it

1757
01:36:19,836 --> 01:36:20,596
Speaker 2: falls apart.

1758
01:36:20,836 --> 01:36:23,396
Speaker 1: It's so simple, but it's there's so but it's so.

1759
01:36:23,996 --> 01:36:28,076
Speaker 2: It's like this like uh, cathartic. I get into this

1760
01:36:28,276 --> 01:36:32,916
Speaker 2: meditative state on that song, you know, And it's actually

1761
01:36:32,956 --> 01:36:35,356
Speaker 2: it was around the self titled album. I think I

1762
01:36:35,476 --> 01:36:38,236
Speaker 2: was saying, how you know, I was like really like

1763
01:36:38,516 --> 01:36:41,236
Speaker 2: zeroing in on my songwriting in a way, and kind

1764
01:36:41,236 --> 01:36:43,836
Speaker 2: of I felt like on that album, I finally felt

1765
01:36:43,876 --> 01:36:48,476
Speaker 2: like I found I found Ben Kuehler's sound like Run

1766
01:36:48,596 --> 01:36:50,996
Speaker 2: was kind of the beginning of that. But there's this

1767
01:36:51,076 --> 01:36:55,036
Speaker 2: song Penny on the Train Track and thirteen where it's

1768
01:36:55,076 --> 01:36:57,156
Speaker 2: like I just went through this moment where I just

1769
01:36:57,196 --> 01:37:01,276
Speaker 2: kept writing verse after verse and but still with like

1770
01:37:01,316 --> 01:37:02,236
Speaker 2: a poppy chorus.

1771
01:37:02,476 --> 01:37:02,676
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1772
01:37:03,716 --> 01:37:06,876
Speaker 2: Breaks is sort of one of those songs where it's

1773
01:37:06,916 --> 01:37:09,876
Speaker 2: just it's definitely a story. You're in the long ride.

1774
01:37:09,876 --> 01:37:12,076
Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, buckle up, this is gonna take a second.

1775
01:37:12,916 --> 01:37:15,716
Speaker 2: I hope that it keeps the listeners attention. I mean,

1776
01:37:15,716 --> 01:37:18,756
Speaker 2: that's another thing, is like I never want anything to

1777
01:37:18,876 --> 01:37:22,436
Speaker 2: be I don't enjoy making overly self indulgent music, you

1778
01:37:22,476 --> 01:37:24,596
Speaker 2: know what I mean, And like I am a firm

1779
01:37:24,636 --> 01:37:27,676
Speaker 2: believer of like don't boris get to the chorus and like,

1780
01:37:27,836 --> 01:37:31,036
Speaker 2: if you're gonna say something like it better be good. So,

1781
01:37:31,116 --> 01:37:33,556
Speaker 2: I mean, I hope that And that's sort of a

1782
01:37:33,636 --> 01:37:37,076
Speaker 2: challenge when I'm writing a song like breaks. I want

1783
01:37:37,196 --> 01:37:39,396
Speaker 2: to take you on a journey, but I like, every

1784
01:37:39,436 --> 01:37:43,076
Speaker 2: word's got to mean something, whether it literally means something

1785
01:37:43,236 --> 01:37:47,036
Speaker 2: or the rhyme of it is interesting enough to just

1786
01:37:47,116 --> 01:37:49,436
Speaker 2: keep you listening, you know. I want it's kind of

1787
01:37:49,436 --> 01:37:51,396
Speaker 2: a fun trick to see if how long I can

1788
01:37:51,476 --> 01:37:52,076
Speaker 2: keep your attention.

1789
01:37:52,276 --> 01:37:54,476
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's a great song.

1790
01:37:54,676 --> 01:37:59,476
Speaker 2: Thank you. I really I am really flattered that you

1791
01:38:00,036 --> 01:38:02,716
Speaker 2: chose that one for me to play. And this one, now,

1792
01:38:02,756 --> 01:38:05,436
Speaker 2: this one was like a very private song and I

1793
01:38:05,476 --> 01:38:08,036
Speaker 2: even recorded it when no one was here, like I

1794
01:38:08,116 --> 01:38:10,756
Speaker 2: just set up to my and then we built it

1795
01:38:11,276 --> 01:38:15,876
Speaker 2: on top of that vocal and guitar performance the strings.

1796
01:38:15,956 --> 01:38:18,436
Speaker 2: That's another thing about Cover the Mirrors as an album

1797
01:38:18,516 --> 01:38:22,276
Speaker 2: that's different for me from my past albums, is that

1798
01:38:22,276 --> 01:38:24,996
Speaker 2: there is a lot of strings on this album. You know,

1799
01:38:25,036 --> 01:38:27,676
Speaker 2: I've had songs over the years where it's like maybe

1800
01:38:27,716 --> 01:38:29,596
Speaker 2: an album will have like one or two songs that

1801
01:38:29,636 --> 01:38:32,116
Speaker 2: has strings, or you maybe have one ballad with strings.

1802
01:38:32,156 --> 01:38:35,556
Speaker 2: But this one, almost half the album has strings. And

1803
01:38:36,116 --> 01:38:39,756
Speaker 2: it wasn't intentional. I just kept hearing these string parts

1804
01:38:39,756 --> 01:38:41,796
Speaker 2: in my head now looking back, and when I listened

1805
01:38:41,796 --> 01:38:44,436
Speaker 2: to it, there is like this sort of dare I say,

1806
01:38:44,476 --> 01:38:50,436
Speaker 2: like a funeral element, memorial vibe that just because of

1807
01:38:50,476 --> 01:38:52,596
Speaker 2: that sound, I don't know, but I love it. I

1808
01:38:52,596 --> 01:38:55,916
Speaker 2: mean it's really comforting. Also, like the lead violinist on

1809
01:38:55,996 --> 01:38:58,036
Speaker 2: all these tracks as a friend of mine in Austin

1810
01:38:58,196 --> 01:39:03,636
Speaker 2: Warren Hood, the best violinist fiddle player ever, so good.

1811
01:39:05,036 --> 01:39:08,516
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting us who talk about or write

1812
01:39:08,516 --> 01:39:15,116
Speaker 1: about music often boil albums down sometimes for finding an

1813
01:39:15,236 --> 01:39:18,436
Speaker 1: easy way to just reference something like that album is

1814
01:39:18,476 --> 01:39:20,996
Speaker 1: this and you just come up with this very But

1815
01:39:21,396 --> 01:39:23,196
Speaker 1: do you do that with your own album?

1816
01:39:23,276 --> 01:39:23,476
Speaker 3: Sure?

1817
01:39:25,076 --> 01:39:25,636
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1818
01:39:25,796 --> 01:39:28,316
Speaker 2: I like think like Shasha is like okay, that was

1819
01:39:28,356 --> 01:39:32,276
Speaker 2: the opening debut, like a bunch of different types of

1820
01:39:32,316 --> 01:39:34,596
Speaker 2: songs on one like here I Am and I can

1821
01:39:34,636 --> 01:39:37,196
Speaker 2: do like these different things on my Way is just

1822
01:39:37,276 --> 01:39:41,316
Speaker 2: like garage rock. Just right there, band in the room,

1823
01:39:41,716 --> 01:39:45,436
Speaker 2: press record on the tape machine, let it run, do

1824
01:39:45,516 --> 01:39:49,556
Speaker 2: three takes, pick your favorite and move on. Ben Koehler.

1825
01:39:50,076 --> 01:39:52,676
Speaker 2: When that's me playing all the instruments, that was me

1826
01:39:52,796 --> 01:39:56,716
Speaker 2: really layering and going for a very lush sound and

1827
01:39:56,916 --> 01:39:59,916
Speaker 2: just there's a lot going on in the speakers of

1828
01:39:59,916 --> 01:40:02,756
Speaker 2: that one, and then of course changing horses. I think

1829
01:40:02,756 --> 01:40:04,036
Speaker 2: of that that's the country.

1830
01:40:03,676 --> 01:40:05,956
Speaker 1: Album, you know, Yeah, but.

1831
01:40:05,916 --> 01:40:08,596
Speaker 2: I am figure. I mean, this is I guess I'll

1832
01:40:08,636 --> 01:40:10,196
Speaker 2: maybe in a years think of it as like the

1833
01:40:10,236 --> 01:40:12,796
Speaker 2: Dorian album. I mean, because it is. It's the first

1834
01:40:12,876 --> 01:40:14,156
Speaker 2: music I've made since he died.

1835
01:40:15,316 --> 01:40:20,276
Speaker 1: So well, I did want to ask to just you

1836
01:40:20,836 --> 01:40:23,956
Speaker 1: mentioned thirteen a couple of times. Yeah, that's that's d

1837
01:40:23,996 --> 01:40:27,036
Speaker 1: Seron's favorite song of yours.

1838
01:40:25,956 --> 01:40:32,356
Speaker 2: Ye it is, man, it's so sweet. Ed is obsessed

1839
01:40:32,396 --> 01:40:36,076
Speaker 2: with that song. I think also one of the things

1840
01:40:36,076 --> 01:40:38,116
Speaker 2: he really loves about it is like it's like an

1841
01:40:38,156 --> 01:40:41,196
Speaker 2: anti pop song. There's no chorus to that song, like

1842
01:40:41,236 --> 01:40:43,716
Speaker 2: it really is just verse verse. It was so fun

1843
01:40:43,716 --> 01:40:46,916
Speaker 2: to write that song, and that was I finished it

1844
01:40:46,956 --> 01:40:49,676
Speaker 2: in the studio when I was doing the self titled album.

1845
01:40:49,836 --> 01:40:52,476
Speaker 2: So Gil was there in the control room, I was

1846
01:40:52,516 --> 01:40:56,116
Speaker 2: in the live room. I had the opening phrase, We've

1847
01:40:56,156 --> 01:40:58,596
Speaker 2: been in the rain, We've been on the mountain, We've

1848
01:40:58,636 --> 01:41:02,756
Speaker 2: been around the five And I just kept writing verses,

1849
01:41:02,796 --> 01:41:04,956
Speaker 2: and I had like a sheet of paper for each verse,

1850
01:41:05,716 --> 01:41:08,356
Speaker 2: and I would shuffle him around on the floor and

1851
01:41:08,676 --> 01:41:11,156
Speaker 2: to create eight, What's verse one? What's verse two? And

1852
01:41:11,196 --> 01:41:13,876
Speaker 2: I orchestrated the like I knew that the first verse

1853
01:41:13,916 --> 01:41:15,076
Speaker 2: and the last one. So I knew I was going

1854
01:41:15,116 --> 01:41:16,916
Speaker 2: to end in the taxi when you told me you

1855
01:41:16,956 --> 01:41:19,316
Speaker 2: loved me, and then I wasn't alone. I knew that

1856
01:41:19,396 --> 01:41:21,996
Speaker 2: was it. You got to have your book ends, at

1857
01:41:22,076 --> 01:41:24,276
Speaker 2: least in my mind, that's you know. If I have that,

1858
01:41:25,156 --> 01:41:29,236
Speaker 2: I'm good. And then so I just orchestrated each verse

1859
01:41:29,276 --> 01:41:35,316
Speaker 2: and what number you know, when they appeared. Ed has

1860
01:41:35,436 --> 01:41:38,836
Speaker 2: been a friend now of mine for many years. We

1861
01:41:38,916 --> 01:41:43,636
Speaker 2: met funny enough. It was like a Thursday. I was home,

1862
01:41:43,836 --> 01:41:46,356
Speaker 2: I was here. I got a call from a booking

1863
01:41:46,396 --> 01:41:50,716
Speaker 2: agent and she said, hey, BK, are you in Austin

1864
01:41:50,756 --> 01:41:54,436
Speaker 2: tomorrow Friday? And I said, yeah, I'm around. She said,

1865
01:41:54,436 --> 01:41:57,596
Speaker 2: can you open for Ed Sheeran? And I was like, yeah,

1866
01:41:57,716 --> 01:42:00,236
Speaker 2: I mean I guess so like what happened?

1867
01:42:00,556 --> 01:42:00,796
Speaker 5: You know.

1868
01:42:01,436 --> 01:42:04,276
Speaker 2: She's like, well, the opening act is stuck in Australia

1869
01:42:04,396 --> 01:42:07,676
Speaker 2: something with immigration and like the passport and isn't going

1870
01:42:07,716 --> 01:42:09,436
Speaker 2: to make the show, so can you fill in? And

1871
01:42:09,516 --> 01:42:12,996
Speaker 2: I was like sure. So I showed up to the gig,

1872
01:42:13,796 --> 01:42:17,916
Speaker 2: like I sound checked. I just played solo acoustic and

1873
01:42:17,996 --> 01:42:20,756
Speaker 2: I sound checked, and his crew's like getting the stage going,

1874
01:42:20,836 --> 01:42:23,436
Speaker 2: and there was just one guitar stand and one guitar

1875
01:42:23,516 --> 01:42:25,676
Speaker 2: and I remember asking his crew guys, I'm like, so,

1876
01:42:25,716 --> 01:42:27,636
Speaker 2: where's like all the back line, where's the band? He's

1877
01:42:27,676 --> 01:42:29,116
Speaker 2: like band? What band?

1878
01:42:29,196 --> 01:42:29,356
Speaker 1: Man?

1879
01:42:29,516 --> 01:42:32,036
Speaker 2: He just played solo and I was like, oh no, shit,

1880
01:42:32,156 --> 01:42:34,316
Speaker 2: like we're in an arena, you know. And I was

1881
01:42:34,356 --> 01:42:36,676
Speaker 2: like that is so great, Like I love that because

1882
01:42:36,676 --> 01:42:39,516
Speaker 2: I love performing solo, and so many times as an

1883
01:42:39,596 --> 01:42:42,356
Speaker 2: artist you're told like you gotta bring a band on

1884
01:42:42,476 --> 01:42:45,876
Speaker 2: or like Saturday Night Live didn't let Ed play solo

1885
01:42:45,916 --> 01:42:47,476
Speaker 2: on Saturday Night Live because they were like, you gotta

1886
01:42:47,476 --> 01:42:49,396
Speaker 2: have a band. So even Ed had to like get

1887
01:42:49,396 --> 01:42:51,956
Speaker 2: a band just to do Saturday Night Live, you know.

1888
01:42:52,276 --> 01:42:54,676
Speaker 2: But anyway, so I was like good for him. So

1889
01:42:54,796 --> 01:42:57,876
Speaker 2: then anyway, we ended up meeting that night. He came

1890
01:42:57,956 --> 01:42:59,916
Speaker 2: up to me after my set and he was like, dude,

1891
01:42:59,956 --> 01:43:02,036
Speaker 2: and he was like, what do you are You? Can

1892
01:43:02,076 --> 01:43:05,036
Speaker 2: you come to Dallas and open tomorrow in Dallas? And

1893
01:43:05,036 --> 01:43:07,236
Speaker 2: I'm like sure, And so I did Dallas and then

1894
01:43:07,276 --> 01:43:09,076
Speaker 2: he was like, can you do Oklahoma City? And then

1895
01:43:09,676 --> 01:43:11,316
Speaker 2: eventually he was just like, just do the rest of

1896
01:43:11,316 --> 01:43:13,836
Speaker 2: the tour. The other guys can't make it. And so

1897
01:43:13,876 --> 01:43:16,636
Speaker 2: I ended up doing this whole East Coast run with

1898
01:43:16,916 --> 01:43:22,076
Speaker 2: Ed back in twenty fifteen, and so we became close friends.

1899
01:43:22,156 --> 01:43:26,556
Speaker 2: And he called me when him and his wife Cherry

1900
01:43:26,596 --> 01:43:29,196
Speaker 2: were getting married and I was like, mate, can you

1901
01:43:30,116 --> 01:43:34,076
Speaker 2: play thirteen at our wedding as our first dance? I

1902
01:43:34,116 --> 01:43:37,676
Speaker 2: was like, I'd be honored, you know. So we did

1903
01:43:37,716 --> 01:43:41,796
Speaker 2: that and it was really fun, and I just remember

1904
01:43:42,156 --> 01:43:47,116
Speaker 2: in a haze that night during the party him stumbling

1905
01:43:47,116 --> 01:43:50,156
Speaker 2: towards me with Harry Styles and their arms are around

1906
01:43:50,156 --> 01:43:52,356
Speaker 2: each other, and Ed comes up to me. He's like,

1907
01:43:52,436 --> 01:43:56,476
Speaker 2: this has ben fucking quella, Harry. Can you believe that

1908
01:43:56,596 --> 01:44:00,476
Speaker 2: song thirteen that he played earlier? And Harr's like yeah, man,

1909
01:44:00,796 --> 01:44:04,716
Speaker 2: and Ed's like it doesn't have a fucking chorus, and

1910
01:44:04,716 --> 01:44:08,316
Speaker 2: then Harry's like, yeah, wow, like a song without a chorus,

1911
01:44:08,356 --> 01:44:10,756
Speaker 2: Like they were just like loving that, and I love that,

1912
01:44:10,996 --> 01:44:12,276
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, because I mean these are

1913
01:44:12,276 --> 01:44:14,636
Speaker 2: like so two of the biggest pop stars in the world.

1914
01:44:14,716 --> 01:44:17,916
Speaker 2: Like if you don't have a chorus, you're done, you know, Yeah,

1915
01:44:17,956 --> 01:44:19,516
Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the reasons. You know,

1916
01:44:19,556 --> 01:44:24,396
Speaker 2: it's obviously like very heartfelt song and you know, it's

1917
01:44:24,516 --> 01:44:27,636
Speaker 2: like taken straight out of my love life with Liz.

1918
01:44:27,876 --> 01:44:29,676
Speaker 2: And then I think, you know, people like Ed and

1919
01:44:29,756 --> 01:44:32,996
Speaker 2: Cherry can relate with that, and you know other people.

1920
01:44:33,076 --> 01:44:36,196
Speaker 2: But from a technical standpoint, I just loved that he

1921
01:44:36,836 --> 01:44:38,836
Speaker 2: loved that it doesn't have a chorus.

1922
01:44:39,516 --> 01:44:43,236
Speaker 1: That's incredible. Man. Well, hey man, thank you for having

1923
01:44:43,276 --> 01:44:45,996
Speaker 1: me out and being so generous with your time and

1924
01:44:46,316 --> 01:44:48,356
Speaker 1: with your music, and.

1925
01:44:48,716 --> 01:44:52,396
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me on Broken Record of course, honor.

1926
01:44:54,996 --> 01:44:56,756
Speaker 1: In the episode description, you'll find a link to a

1927
01:44:56,756 --> 01:44:59,636
Speaker 1: playlist of some of our favorite Bank Collor songs, and

1928
01:44:59,756 --> 01:45:01,876
Speaker 1: be sure to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken

1929
01:45:01,916 --> 01:45:04,356
Speaker 1: Record podcast to see all of our video interviews, tunes,

1930
01:45:04,636 --> 01:45:06,716
Speaker 1: and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the

1931
01:45:06,756 --> 01:45:09,796
Speaker 1: Broken Record pot. You can follow us on Twitter at

1932
01:45:09,916 --> 01:45:13,556
Speaker 1: broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah

1933
01:45:13,636 --> 01:45:16,756
Speaker 1: Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan.

1934
01:45:17,036 --> 01:45:20,756
Speaker 1: Our engineer is Ben Tolliny. Broken Record is a production

1935
01:45:20,876 --> 01:45:24,236
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others

1936
01:45:24,316 --> 01:45:28,716
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1937
01:45:28,716 --> 01:45:31,796
Speaker 1: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free

1938
01:45:31,836 --> 01:45:35,356
Speaker 1: listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin

1939
01:45:35,356 --> 01:45:39,316
Speaker 1: Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show,

1940
01:45:39,436 --> 01:45:41,916
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your

1941
01:45:41,956 --> 01:45:46,156
Speaker 1: podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.