WEBVTT - Blood Squirting From the Lizard’s Eye, Part 1 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:07.120 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:15.440 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:16.079 is Robert. 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.560 Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. And today on Stuff 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:21.599 to Blow Your Mind, we are going to be talking 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:26.840 about an animal. About the horned lizard or Frenosoma, a 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.240 genus of lizard native to North America, also known as 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.120 horned toads or horny toads. From what I've been reading, 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:36.760 I think the people in the biological sciences prefer the 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.959 more accurate lizard appellation because they are certainly not toads, 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.960 though there are reasons for calling them toads, mainly that 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:46.080 they look like toads. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.839 Now, we're going to probably try and stick to horned lizard. 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:51.720 I'm probably going to say horned lizard because I like 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.240 using the more antiquated term and it sounds more demonic. 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:00.000 But we also might say horny toad, horned toad, horn toad, 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:01.800 and so forth. Throughout the episode. 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.720 Horned Lizard makes me think learned lizard. You know, doesn't 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.000 it suggest a kind of wisdom? 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:13.320 Yeah? Yeah, sometimes lizards can appear quite wise, so I buy. 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.520 That, And in fact, you might even think about some 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:19.160 of the species of horned lizards as especially wise or 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:23.160 discerning among the reptile kind, because they, as we get 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.200 into later in this episode, they have some anti predator 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:30.240 strategies that really require snap judgment calls about say what 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.080 type of predator you're dealing with? 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:34.000 That's right, And I don't know if we'll get into 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:36.640 it in this episode or the next, but among the Navajo, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.560 among the Dne people, they're sometimes called grandfather so I 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.200 think there is often that vibe of maybe sort of 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.240 wisdom and power to them. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:47.760 Though I have to admit I did come to this 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.640 topic through more base and if you know us predictable routes. 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.040 So my window into talking about horned lizards was the 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.720 fact that for sci fi horror nerds like us, it's 0:01:58.800 --> 0:01:59.920 alien summer. Would you have. 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.440 Oh, yeah, it's been an alien summer for me. We've 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.240 been chatting about alien movies and the upcoming alien movie. 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:08.880 So yeah, there's a lot of excitement in the air. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.360 Yeah, there's a new alien movie coming out in theaters 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:15.040 later this week, Alien Romulus. Of course, there's no guarantee 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:16.639 ahead of time it's going to be good. I don't 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.280 think they've even released the critics embargo yet, But I'm 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.720 just recklessly letting myself get excited regardless. Tempering expectations is 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:25.280 for the week. 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.600 That's right, Say yes to Xenomorph and then figure the 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:29.320 rest out later. 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:33.840 You know, if I'm disappointed, I'm disappointed, It'll be okay. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.799 So we've had Aliens on the brain for a few 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.800 months here, and we've covered a couple of Aliens copycat 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.040 movies on Weird House Cinema. We'll probably do at least 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:43.679 one more. I think that's right. 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.760 We also had a seven part Monster Fact series on 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.520 the various creatures and organisms of the alien universe, with 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:51.000 part seven publishing this week. 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.520 M hmm. But so we've got all this excitement running 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.360 through us, and I was looking to find some real 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.280 world biology to cover that had parallels in a and 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.880 we've already done a lot of topics along these lines 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:07.320 in the past, and the idea of the xenomorph's weaponized 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.400 blood took hold. So in the Alien movies, if you 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.840 haven't seen them, the creature in these movies has extremely 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.840 potent acid for blood, which appears to serve as a 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.480 defense strategy. So if you cause injury to one of 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.160 the xenomorphs, you are likely to get some of its 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.280 blood on yourself or on your critical infrastructure, such as 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.839 the inside of your spacecraft hull, and that blood will 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:36.280 burn through bodies and space ships alike. So, as observed 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.400 by the characters in the first movie, there's real danger 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:41.600 in injuring the creature. How do you fight it? 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.920 That's right. It's also worth pointing out that there is 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:49.920 at least some acid fluid as projectile in the xenomorph world. 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.280 The most, I would say, I guess the key example 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.160 would be in nineteen seventy nine's Alien the first film, 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.440 as we see that emergent face hugger seem to use 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.280 acidic secretions to burn through Caine's helmet in order to 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.520 access his face. Now, naturally, given that certain wounds, especially 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.840 lethal wounds to a Xenomorph, could result in a jet 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.760 of acidic blood, we could easily classify that as a 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.440 form of defensive spray. And then in Alien three and 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.120 Alien Resurrection, the third and fourth movies in the franchise, 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:24.599 we actually see Xenomorphs using an offensive acid spray attack, 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.240 And of course this has also been used to various 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.880 effect in Alien video games. For ranged enemies, as well 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.480 as in alien comic books and so forth. Also worth 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.280 pointing out that, given our current Mortal Kombat discussions on 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.440 Weird House Cinema, the acid spit is one of the 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.560 signature moves of the green clad Ninja reptile. 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.320 Is it really a spit because the animation looks to 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.120 me more like projectile vomit. 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.560 I think it depends. At least in the first game. 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.799 He was in Mortal Kombat too, he would definitely spit. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.480 I don't. It was like a kind of a sound 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:58.720 over and over again, and I think it got a 0:04:58.760 --> 0:04:59.920 little more vomity later. 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.440 Okay. Now, of course, it's fairly common in the natural 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.560 world to find animals that produce some kind of toxic 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:12.080 defensive fluid that they use to protect themselves against predators 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:16.960 or attack prey. But what seemed less common, though perhaps 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.400 more common than you would think, was that the defensive 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.279 fluid in question was actually the animal's own blood. 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:26.360 That's right, because part of the logic here, of course, 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.400 is we tend to think vampire like when we think 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.920 about an organism's blood. Right, It's part of the prize, 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.440 It's part of the predator's claim. So broadly, speaking, it would, 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:36.800 on the surface anyway, seem illogical to think that a 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.520 predator could be harmed by the blood of its prey. 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.280 But here is where the horned lizard comes in. If 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.080 you know one thing about the horned lizard, it is 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:50.800 probably that these various species of lizards have a defensive 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:54.560 adaptation of squirting blood out of their eyes. 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.279 That's right. They're kind of internet famous for this, a 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:02.040 lot of clips, a lot of animations and videos. I 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.240 should also add that if you know one thing, you 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:06.760 should probably know two things. Also, that they're to some 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:11.640 extent horned up right, because right, tall them horned lizards, right. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.040 But while lots of animals are spiky or horned in 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.520 some way, I would say that the blood squirting out 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.320 of the eyes is such a shocking behavior, such a 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:27.440 bizarre and seemingly rare adaptation, that you would almost have 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.880 to wonder if it's not real, Like is that something 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.640 people just made up? Or does that really happen? And 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:34.440 according to the author of a book that I'm going 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.719 to cite in this episode, reports of it have sometimes 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.160 in the past been dismissed as tall tales. But they're 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:45.040 not tall tales. The horn Blizzard's weaponized blood is absolutely 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.880 real and it is the subject of some interesting scientific investigation. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:50.920 So this is going to be really fun to get 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.360 into now. When we were doing our pre research, though, Joe, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.919 you brought up a resource that we've looked to in 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:01.000 the past, and that's the California herbs dot com website, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.080 where they have a wonderful I mean, it's not just 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.760 about this, but they have a huge listing of various 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:11.760 herp appearances in various films, many of which are very 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:17.280 much in the domain of weird house cinema meaning reptiles, yes, yeah, yeah, 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:22.720 for herpetologist cinema files. And they have a list there 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.880 that you shared with me of horned lizards in movies, 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.560 and there are a few that I was familiar with, 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.440 you know, because they're pretty popular films. I think what 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:32.960 Outlaw Josie Wales is on there. 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.800 Yeah, yeah, but the wldye there are apparently a number 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:42.080 of you know, westerns I guess where there are horned lizards, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.560 which makes sense because you know, you find a lot 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.640 of these several of these species are very common in 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.400 the American Southwest. 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.480 But also Jo Roowski's Holy Mountain is included there. His 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.560 film from nineteen seventy three that does have a very 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.480 memorable hert scene, though it may contain shots of actual 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:04.280 herbs exploded with fireworks, so you know, go into that 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.000 one with a certain amount of caution. But it's I mean, 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.160 it's holy mountains, so I'd advise a great deal of 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.080 content consideration before you watch it. Anyway, It's a it's 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.760 kind of a titan of surreal cinema and an important 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.640 film when you're looking at weird psychotronic pictures and you know, 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.680 Mexican cinema certainly cinema of the nineteen seventies. 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.400 But it is not for everyone. Yeah, that's not movie 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:24.840 Night with the grandparents. 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.120 Yeah, I believe the scene in question. It's been a 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.240 long time since I've seen it, and I have only 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.320 seen it like used to. The only way you could 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.319 watch it would be like a rip of a Japanese 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.240 laser disc. And they're much better sources for it available now. 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.959 But there is an extended scene where the conquest of 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:47.000 Mexico is recreated with like frogs and toads and lizards 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.319 standing in for the various actors and sides in this conflict. 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:53.960 I did not remember that detail there's a lot I've 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:55.520 forgotten about Holy Mountain. 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.800 So I would say cameo appearance by the horned lizard. Now, 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:00.560 it's worth noting at the top here that we're not 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.120 dealing with a single species when we're discussing horned lizards, 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.160 but rather an entire genus of North American lizards, and 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:12.080 that's Phinosoma, including some twenty one species which range as 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.839 far north as parts of Canada and on the southern 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.400 end range all the way through Mexico and into Guatemala. 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.040 And of these again, somewhere around twenty one species, at 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.480 least eight species squirt blood from the eye region. So 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.959 just an example of range here, there's the greater short 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.000 horned lizard or hernandez is short horned lizard, and it 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.079 can be found as far north as southern Saskatchewan and 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:39.080 Alberta and south into the Texas Panhandle in central Mexico. 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.640 And this is one of the species of bloodshooters. 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.280 Yeah, that's right. But as you said, Rob, the various 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.280 species of horned lizards can be found all over the 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.199 western part of North America, from down to southern Mexico, 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.200 all the way up to the southern part of Canada. 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.480 And you can look up maps that show you sort 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:01.120 of different estimated ranges of the different species. But yeah, 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.520 you'll find them all throughout the arid and semi arid 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.719 regions of the North American West. Here, I think it 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:09.520 would be a good place to introduce one of my 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.160 major sources for this episode, which is a book called 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:18.240 Introduction to Horned Lizards of North America by Wade C. Sherbrook. 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.319 This was published by University of California Press in two 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:25.240 thousand and three, and the author, Wade Sherbrooke, was director 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.120 of the Southwestern Research Station of the American Museum of 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:34.839 Natural History, and so one of the questions Sherbrooke addresses 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.640 in the introduction of this book is why are horned 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:43.640 lizards commonly referred to as toads, horned toads, horny toads. Well, 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:46.280 they really do kind of look like toads. They tend 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.280 to have a wide body when viewed from above, especially 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.960 in certain defensive postures where they sort of flatten and 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.840 widen their bodies out to to sort of turn their 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.440 backs into a shield. They tend to for lizards have 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:04.400 a short, blunt snout which can resemble a toad's head, 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.640 and they also have an awkward walking gait. They tend 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.079 to have a camouflaged appearance which helps them blend into 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:16.479 their often sandy or gravelly surroundings, and this can resemble 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.560 the model color patterns and bumpy texture you would see 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:21.800 on the backs of some toads, so in lots of 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.280 different ways they look like toads, and this led to 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.800 the name of their genus. Frinosoma means toad body phrenos 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.320 as toad and soma, of course means body, toad body, 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:36.640 total toad body to add to the toad comparisons to 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.679 make them even more of a toad body. You can 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.800 observe how they eat. Now. The different species of horned 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:48.120 lizards have some different different diets. Some are more taking 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.920 what they can get than others, but some are quite 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:56.280 specialized to eating insects and specifically ants, specifically even more 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:00.720 harvester ants. And if you watch the horned lizards eat 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.720 harvester ants when they specialize in this food source, they 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.800 have a kind of a sticky flicking tongue action, much 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.360 like we associate with toads and frogs. I was reading 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.560 in one part of the Sherbrook book about how exactly 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.640 it is that these horned lizards can eat these incredibly 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:23.400 venomous ants, and apparently they have a strategy of like 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.079 flicking them into the mouth and then as they swallow 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.360 the ant, the ant becomes covered in this layer of 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.720 mucus that comes out of glands in the lizard's throat, 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.720 and this coating of mucus surrounds the ant as the 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:43.040 ant is digested and essentially disables it from biting or 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:47.439 stinging the lizard from the inside until it is well 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.520 dead and able to be digested. And these lizards have 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.800 to eat a lot of these ants because ants are 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.040 not super nutritious like they've got There's not a lot 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.000 of meat on that bone. It's mostly bone. 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.400 That's right. Like For instance, one of the other big 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.280 ant eaters out there is of course the mammalian ant eater, 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.360 and they are known to eat tons of ants and termites, 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.320 seen estimates of like thirty thousand ants and termites a day. 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.360 But even that is still a low calorie diet, and 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.360 it's one of the reasons that we think that ant 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.200 eaters have one of the lowest mammalian body temperatures. But 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.000 in terms of the the what we're dealing with here, 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.840 the horned lizards consumption of ants. I found an interesting 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.439 article that answers the question, well, how do they eat 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.840 them safely? This was from two thousand and eight published 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.360 in the journal jazz A by Sherbrooke and Schwink. And 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.000 the answer is in the title Horned lizards incapacitate dangerous 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.520 ant prey with mucus. And we've already touched on like 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.480 the main aspect of this, but they provide one more 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.640 little detail that I really like. They're write quote. We 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.800 show that they're derived feeding kind of mattics are associated 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:56.000 with unique mucus secreting phar angel papilia that apparently serve 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.520 to immobilize and incapacitate dangerous ants as they are swallowed 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.280 by compacting them and binding them in mucus trans And 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:08.040 then they later add the detail. Ants extracted from fresh 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.679 killed horned lizard's stomachs are curled ventrally into balls and 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:13.920 bound in mucus. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.320 Take an ant as you as you're swallowing it, coat 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.760 it with slime, and wadd it up into a ball 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.360 so that you can digest it without it getting into 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.320 trouble inside your digestive tract. That's right, roll them up, 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.640 all right, So that is horned lizards as predators. But 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.280 I wanted to focus for the majority of today's episode 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.760 on horned lizards as prey because it is, of course 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.840 in their role as prey and in their anti predator 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.040 defense strategies that we see the jets of blood emerge 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.440 from the eyes. So here I want to go back 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.080 to that book I mentioned by Wade Sherbrook. He has 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.640 an excellent section in this book called the Enemies and Defense, 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.440 which sort of covers a nearly comprehensive list of different 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:12.040 sort of predator prey relationships between horned lizard species and 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.760 the predators that target them, and the strategies they have 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.840 for resisting these predators. So, as we alluded to earlier, 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.960 horned lizards are of course covered in spikes and scales. 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.800 This is a pretty sophisticated armor defense. If you've never 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.840 seen what a horned lizard looks like, by the way, 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:31.680 you should look one up. I mean, first of all, 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.520 they are beautiful, but this will give you a better 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.280 idea of what we're talking about. As we continually reference 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.240 the armor moving on, they tend to have spikes and 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.040 scales along different parts of their bodies, such as sort 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.720 of spiky flank protrusions running down the lateral sides of 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.800 the body, but then also sometimes some kind of bumpy 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.560 or tough coverings on the back, and then especially bony 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.920 spike protrusions around the crown of the head. So some 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.280 of the spiky looking things, usually the smaller ones, are 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.640 just more modified scales, but the spikes around the head 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:13.680 are actually like hard, sharp bony spikes now covered in 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.160 spikes and scales as they are. You might not think 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.400 that a horned lizard would look very appetizing, but you 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.200 know out here in the arid and semi arid regions 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.520 of the American West, many predators will take whatever they 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.560 can get, and so horned lizards are indeed a prey 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.400 animal to many species of predators. Juveniles are the most 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.400 vulnerable to predation. They're smaller and they have less developed armor, 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.720 so many are eaten between the time they hatch from 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.920 their eggs and the first hibernation. But Sherbrooke in this 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.400 chapter gets into a list of different predators, and the 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.280 first one I want to look at is his section 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:56.160 on the long nosed leopard lizard or the Gambelia whizly zennii. 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:58.840 These are worth looking up a picture of as well, 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.640 because while they're not very interesting in terms of shape, 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.120 they're just sort of like larger looking predatory lizards. They 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.800 do have a truly leopard looking coloration pattern. 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.800 Yeah yeah, they're quite quite fetching in their own right. 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.480 So these lizards will frequently attack and eat horned lizards, 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:20.480 especially juveniles, and the general strategy here is not super complicated. 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.000 It is to bite them near the head and then 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.679 swallow them whole head first. You know, this is just 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.560 me reasoning from the pictures, but the sort of backwards 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.800 pointing orientation of the head spikes, because they sort of 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.840 extend backward from the head like a crown, it makes 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.520 it seem like it would probably be easier to swallow 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.800 a horned lizard head first rather than tail first. Like 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.800 if you went backwards, I would think the spikes would 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.560 would be more likely to catch like hooks in the 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.479 lining of the throat and the digestive system. But it 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.120 also seems like eating one of these things head first 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.040 would be a very no going back scenario. You know, 0:17:58.080 --> 0:17:59.960 once you start eating a big one, you're committed. 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.280 Yeah, yeah, you can't put it in reverse. 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.960 Sherbrooke says in the book about defensive strategies that when 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.600 attacked by a leopard lizard a horned lizard, and again, 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.800 defensive strategies vary somewhat by species, so we'll be speaking 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.560 in some generalities here, but the horned lizard will often 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:22.320 try to defend itself by flattening out its back into 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.080 a wide shield shape so it wants to look as 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.280 wide as possible, and then tilting and orienting its armored 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:34.000 shield back toward the predator. And again, Adults with well 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.520 developed armor are much less vulnerable to leopard lizards. Now, 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.320 the next category is birds. A number of different birds 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.320 prey on horned lizards. Sherbert mentions hawks such as the 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:51.760 red shouldered hawk or Boeo lineatus, but also smaller birds 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:56.600 like the prairie falcon, the American kestrel, and the loggerhead shrike. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:01.719 Predatory birds with powerful talons and beaks have an advantage 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.720 when preying on these lizards because they have the ability 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.280 to tear the lizard apart and eat it piece by piece, 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.879 making it a somewhat easier proposition to consume that this 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.480 spiky animal as opposed to an armored adult that needs 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.520 to be swallowed whole. However, it does still come with risks. 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.639 Sherbrooke mentions one case of a red shouldered hawk that 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.240 was found dead after having eaten a couple of Texas 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.200 horned lizards. Apparently one of the horns had pierced through 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.240 the hawk's throat from the inside. Oh, and I can't 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:39.800 help but apply like a human level of grossed out 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:41.840 to this. Like I know it's just part of their, 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.399 you know, their way of making a living, But I 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.280 cannot imagine eating something this spiky. 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.520 And it's like a like a like a wheat then, 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:52.080 except even worse. 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.040 Right, Yeah, Oh, it's like you know, you ever think 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.040 when you're like eating a tortilla chip and you don't 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:58.840 chew it upright and you get a shard caught in 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.720 your throat. Yep, okay. Another bird that preys on these 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:07.000 animals is the greater road runner or Geocossics californian us. 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:12.280 The greater roadrunner has an interesting strategy where it grabs 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.879 the horned lizard by a leg or by the tail 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.600 with its beak, and then it whips them up in 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:21.040 the air and slams them back down against the ground repeatedly, 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.120 so it is beating the lizard against the earth, using 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:28.560 centrifugal force to smash it dead. Basically, it bashes it 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.480 and bashes it until it is dead and busted up, 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.840 and this allows the roadrunner to take its time orienting 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.760 the lizard so it can be swallowed whole head first. 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.960 Rabbie attached to a picture for you of the Greater 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:43.960 Roadrunner trying to get this whole lizard into its mouth 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.439 head first that I don't know how this is going 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:48.399 to happen. This is just a photo from the book. 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.960 It's not animated, but I believe in you. 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.879 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, roadrunners are such interesting, weird 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.399 creatures in their own ride. I don't feel like the 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.360 cartoons properly prepared as for the reality only seen. I've 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.080 only seen them in the wild, I think one or 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.840 two times while out in the Arizona. But it's like 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.440 it's like seeing like the ghost of a dinosaur run by. 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:10.120 It's pretty neat. 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.280 Yeah yeah yeah. And of course, in the case of 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.680 the roadrunner swallowing it headfirst once again, keeps the horns 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:20.120 pointed away from the bird's vital organs. It's going down 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:21.840 the digestive tract. 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:22.680 Clever girl. 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:27.359 Yeah yeah, okay. So another bird predator, Chihuahuan ravens or 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:31.800 corvas crypto. Lucus Sherbrook says that these birds, they've got 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:36.000 an interesting difference here. They bring dead horned lizards to 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:40.399 their nests to feed their young, but the ravens render 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.720 them safe by not feeding them to their young hole, 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.439 but instead ripping them open and only feeding the soft 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.600 innerds to the hatchlings, so only guts for the children, 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.840 and then the carcass with the hard parts is discarded. 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:55.720 All right, Well that's not surprising. I'll leave it to 0:21:55.760 --> 0:22:00.760 the ravens to intelligently dissect before eating. To the end. 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.480 They're like a tourist at a beach restaurant picking the 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:05.960 meat out of a crab. They're getting all the juicy 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:10.400 bits and not swallowing the hard parts. Of course, snakes 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.680 are a major predator of these lizards. Various species of 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.240 snakes prey on them, killing them either with venom or 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:23.080 with constriction, and then in all cases, swallowing them whole. Snakes, 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:27.280 like birds, do incur some risk by attempting to swallow 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:30.480 a horned lizard. Sometimes the horns rip them open from 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:34.119