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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Oh goodness, it's Behind the Bastards, the podcast that you've

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Speaker 2: been listening to, because this is part two of our

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Speaker 2: episodes on Alexander VI Laplan. And if you're listening to

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Speaker 2: part two, you've listened to the show before, this isn't

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Speaker 2: your first time, like otherwise, why would you be listening

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Speaker 2: to it this way? To answer that question, our guest

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Speaker 2: Dana Schwartz, Dana.

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Speaker 3: I'm just listening to part two is like a challenge

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Speaker 3: to be like, maybe I'll just figure it out on

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Speaker 3: the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like Second Acting a podcast.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's gen Z.

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Speaker 3: It's the new trend that gen Z's love. They call

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Speaker 3: it second Acting.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. And another thing that the gen

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Speaker 2: zs love is your podcast Noble Blood and your podcast Hoax.

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Speaker 2: You know, with an exclamation point, you know you would

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Speaker 2: have plug plug them right before we get in.

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Speaker 4: Yes, please.

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Speaker 3: Noble Blood is a scripted podcast about historical royals and

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Speaker 3: the usually murderous shenanigans. Again too, and Hoax is a

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Speaker 3: Story is a podcast about stories about historical hoaxes.

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Speaker 4: And they're both really fun.

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Speaker 3: Listen to Hoax because it's brand new, it could use

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Speaker 3: new listeners to rate, review, subscribe all the above.

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Speaker 4: I think you'll like it. I have a great time

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Speaker 4: making it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, definitely check that out. You will enjoy it, and

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Speaker 2: you'll also enjoy the continuing shenanigans of Alexander Villaplan. So

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Speaker 2: at this point, you know, we kind of ended last

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Speaker 2: episode when he wins a France cap, which is some

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Speaker 2: sort of football and by football we mean soccer for

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Speaker 2: my mostly American listener base Award against in a game

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Speaker 2: against Belgium in nineteen twenty six, he becomes the captain

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Speaker 2: of his team in nime and yeah, he's just on

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Speaker 2: top of the world in the late twenties. In nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenty nine, vi Laplan is recruited by the Racing Club

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Speaker 2: de Paris, which is striving to become the premier French

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Speaker 2: football club in an era in which the whole concept

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Speaker 2: of the sport is still kind of new. Right, football

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Speaker 2: is still getting its legs is a big thing. So

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Speaker 2: it's kind of an open question who's going to be

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Speaker 2: like the French, you know, a team, right, and you

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Speaker 2: know the Racing Club of Paris wants to be that

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Speaker 2: a team, and Vi Laplan is the best ballheader He's

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Speaker 2: one of the best passers. You gotta have him, right,

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Speaker 2: So the new club president makes signing vi Laplan a

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Speaker 2: priority again. At this point, he's still an amateur and

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Speaker 2: is working for free in the strictest legal sense of

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Speaker 2: the word. But he's been handed so many jobs and

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Speaker 2: businesses at this point that he is a wealthy man.

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Speaker 2: He is very comfortable, and he has no real job

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Speaker 2: outside of soccer, so he gets to spend all of

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Speaker 2: his free time that he's not playing out at bars

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Speaker 2: and nightclubs doing those you know, if you've seen Moulin Rouge,

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Speaker 2: he's doing shit like that. He's going to these fans

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Speaker 2: live theater, evince and burlesque shows. He's gambling uncontrollably at racetracks. Right.

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Speaker 2: He has everything he needs to be set up for life,

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Speaker 2: but he absolutely has no control of himself outside of

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Speaker 2: the field, right, Like he is just he's one of

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Speaker 2: these guys. He's burning money as fast as he can

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Speaker 2: spend it, just lighting it on fire at the racetrack.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: And he's also while he's still in his early twenties,

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Speaker 2: the fact that he spends all of his free time

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Speaker 2: partying and drinking. You can get away with it because

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Speaker 2: your body is very forgiving. That's not going to be

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Speaker 2: the case forever. Right, So he makes his first contacts

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Speaker 2: with organized crime during this period of time when he's

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Speaker 2: in his early twenties and his star is ascendant because

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Speaker 2: he's repeatedly getting into debt with different shady Underworld characters

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Speaker 2: to continue his gambling habit. Now, initially this isn't a problem, right,

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Speaker 2: Nobody in the Underworld is going to like break his leg.

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Speaker 2: For one thing, they care about how the team performs,

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Speaker 2: and for another thing, they know he'll keep making money.

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Speaker 2: The whole country needs is like, you're not gonna break him, right,

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Speaker 2: and also you know that as long as he's playing

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Speaker 2: soccer at this level, he'll be good for it eventually,

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Speaker 2: even if it takes him a while. Like the money's

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Speaker 2: coming in. So you want to kind of keep this

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Speaker 2: big with this whale like on the hook, right, People

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Speaker 2: don't fish for whales with hooks. It's a harpoon. But

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Speaker 2: that doesn't sound as good. So in nineteen thirty, just

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Speaker 2: three years after moving to Paris, I think his team

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Speaker 2: wins its way to the very first World Cup, right,

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Speaker 2: So he's with this Club de Paris and they win

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Speaker 2: admission to the first, very first football World Cup. Right,

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Speaker 2: this is again the kind of the birthdays of the sport,

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Speaker 2: and the first World Cup is going to be held

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Speaker 2: in Montevideo, Uruguay. Right now, the Algerian as he was

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Speaker 2: known sometimes in the sports press, is going to be

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Speaker 2: the team captain, leading France before the entire world at

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Speaker 2: this first World Cup. Right, this is, you know, the

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Speaker 2: inaugural FIFA World Cup of Actually I'm not sure if

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Speaker 2: it's FIFA even at this point, but this is what

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Speaker 2: becomes the FIFA World Cup.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: So this is held in nineteen thirty and Villaplan is

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Speaker 2: the head of France's team. He's considered the best midfielder

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Speaker 2: in the country at this point, in one of the

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Speaker 2: best passers. His team wins their first game against Mexico

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Speaker 2: at the World Cup, and at this point this is

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Speaker 2: the most significant event in the history of French football,

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Speaker 2: because there's not a lot of French football history, right,

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Speaker 2: but he leads them to a victory at the World Cup.

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Speaker 2: That's a huge deal. There's photos of vi Laplan at

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Speaker 2: the time that show this. He is just exultant, right,

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Speaker 2: he is the star at the peak of his abilities.

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Speaker 2: He's gleeful. You can just see it on his face.

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Speaker 2: He tells interviewers on the day, this is the most

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Speaker 2: beautiful day of my life. Right, so this is his

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Speaker 2: peak moment, you know, and things are only going to

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Speaker 2: get worse from here. Unfortunately for him and for a

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Speaker 2: lot of other people, everything after this first World Cup

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Speaker 2: game is downhill now, because the World Cup isn't a

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Speaker 2: normal god fearing sporting event like the Super Bowl or

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Speaker 2: whatever it is we do for hockey. The Cup itself

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Speaker 2: is actually a bunch of different games, right, It's not

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Speaker 2: just like one thing, you know. And so after defeating

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Speaker 2: Mexico VI, Laplan leads his team into two more matches,

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Speaker 2: which they lose both games, I think one to zero,

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Speaker 2: which is close in football terms, and they're forced out

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Speaker 2: of their running. So, you know, France, they win one

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Speaker 2: game at the World Cup, but it's not his chief moment,

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Speaker 2: is still not even like that great, right a performance,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of a bummer. So his team returns

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Speaker 2: back to Paris and like they've technically been defeated, but

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Speaker 2: also this is literally the first ever World Cup, so

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Speaker 2: people are still really psyched that they won a game, right.

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Speaker 2: The whole football playing world is there and France did

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Speaker 2: okay is kind of the way they're feeling, and so

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Speaker 2: like this is like this is like a big moment

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Speaker 2: for them. Alexander returns home a national hero. Unfortunately he's

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Speaker 2: also coming back to Europe up in like nineteen thirty one.

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Speaker 2: Things aren't looking great for European politics at that point.

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Speaker 4: In nineteen thirty one, everything yeah.

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Speaker 2: Not a good time. You know, the stock market, they're

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Speaker 2: not good really for much of anywhere in the world.

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Speaker 2: But the stock markets crashed in nineteen twenty nine in

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Speaker 2: New York, and things moved a little slower back then, right,

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Speaker 2: So like the Europe, France doesn't feel the repercussions as

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Speaker 2: immediately as like they would today. But by the time

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Speaker 2: the team is on their way back from Uruguay, the

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Speaker 2: global economy is in what might be politely turned a

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Speaker 2: state of cascade and collapse. The end of World War

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Speaker 2: One had brought this economic boom, particularly to the victorious

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Speaker 2: Western Powers, but that was now proved to have been

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Speaker 2: a bubble. Right, This like period of post war prosperity

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Speaker 2: comes to an end very rapidly. In his book The

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Speaker 2: King of Nazi Paris, Christopher Authen writes France held out

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Speaker 2: until nineteen thirty one, but then started to struggle. On

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Speaker 2: street benches and at metro entrances, groups of exhaust and

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Speaker 2: starving young men would be trying not to die, wrote

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Speaker 2: Breton journalist Morvon Lebesque. I don't know how many never

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Speaker 2: came round. I can only say what I saw in

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Speaker 2: the room, madame. One day I saw a child drop

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Speaker 2: a suite which someone trod on, and the manned behind

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Speaker 2: bent down and picked it up, wiped it and ate it.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's a succinct description of how bad shit is.

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Speaker 4: Bro That makes me sad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're not. I don't think they're eating it

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Speaker 2: just because they're jonesing for sugar. They're just like, oh calories. Fuck. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is my only opportunity, This is my only way

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Speaker 2: to avoid dying.

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Speaker 4: Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's great stuff. So Alexander is at first

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Speaker 2: insulated from the broader calamity by his wealth. For the

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Speaker 2: next two years, he continues to be a star player

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Speaker 2: as money kind of trickles in right like he's he's

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Speaker 2: gonna be one of the later people to suffer. But

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Speaker 2: part of the problem is that his salary is not

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Speaker 2: from football. Right, if his salary just been from literally

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Speaker 2: a traditional working salary, he might have done better. But

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Speaker 2: his salary is like these fake businesses that he's been given,

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Speaker 2: these turnkey businesses, and like fake jobs, and like the

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Speaker 2: nightclub that he owns does a lot worse once the

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Speaker 2: economy collapses, right, So this hits him more than it

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Speaker 2: might hit like a professional footballer today, and problems are

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Speaker 2: compared in nineteen thirty two. Things get even more complex

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Speaker 2: because French football turns professional, right, so France, you know,

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Speaker 2: players are not being paid directly for their work, which

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Speaker 2: like initially helps vi laplan right, like the fact that

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Speaker 2: they're actually allowed to like take the money. He quits

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Speaker 2: his position at RC Paris to sign on to a

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Speaker 2: new team which is fighting to make a place for

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Speaker 2: itself in the sports world Olympic, the Antibe. But the

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Speaker 2: new club doesn't have money to pay him what he's worth, right,

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Speaker 2: So he gets this new this is he should have

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Speaker 2: been doing better once it transitions to professional, but he

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Speaker 2: takes a lower paid job with this this club in

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Speaker 2: Antibue because he's a to have an ownership stake in it, right,

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Speaker 2: and he thinks this club might have the chance to

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Speaker 2: be the big French club. They might be bigger than

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Speaker 2: RC Paris. And if I get it on the ground

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Speaker 2: floor and I own part of the club, it'll be

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Speaker 2: worth a lot more money in the long run. Right,

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Speaker 2: So that's his attempt, or that's at least on paper,

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Speaker 2: what he's trying to do. But what's also going on

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Speaker 2: here is that he is in the middle of a

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Speaker 2: massive sports betting scheme, right, like he And part of

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Speaker 2: why he wants ownership of this is that he and

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Speaker 2: his friends are going to like basically start rigging matches

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Speaker 2: and throwing games and whatnot in order to make a

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Speaker 2: lot of money on sports gambling. Right, And he seems

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Speaker 2: to be the We don't entirely know, but it's most

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Speaker 2: of the historic of the historians I've read suggests that

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Speaker 2: he was the mastermind of this. Like he is the

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Speaker 2: guy strong arming everyone, He is the guy with the

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Speaker 2: connections to the underworld.

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Speaker 4: And so he gets there this is allowed, right, This is.

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Speaker 2: Just like no, no, no, no, no no. This is

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Speaker 2: totally illegal, yes, massively illegal. So he convinces several of

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Speaker 2: his comrades from RC Paris to join as well. And

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Speaker 2: the thought of this is that like yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: a struggling small team. If we bring some ringers in,

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Speaker 2: we can put money on games and make a fortune. Right,

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Speaker 2: And for a while this seems to be working, and

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Speaker 2: the club's first season goes surprisingly well. But vie Laplan

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Speaker 2: isn't just sort of like fixing matches. He's also using

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Speaker 2: his money and the money of others to bribe opposing

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Speaker 2: teams to throw matches. Right, So it's not just we've

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Speaker 2: got these ringers and they don't know how good we are.

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Speaker 2: It's like I am. We are paying people or ordering

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Speaker 2: our own people to throw games in order to which

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Speaker 2: is that's the really illegal part. So they get caught

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Speaker 2: during this first season, they don't even make it a

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Speaker 2: full season, they get caught fixing games and it causes

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Speaker 2: a huge scandal, per right up in the Guardian quote.

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Speaker 2: At that time, the championship was divided into Southern and

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Speaker 2: Northern sections, with the winners of each playing off for

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Speaker 2: the title of champions and Team won the Southern section

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Speaker 2: and then be sc Five's legs in the decider, only

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Speaker 2: for it to emerge that the match had been fixed,

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Speaker 2: and team were stripped of their title and the team's

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Speaker 2: manager banned. Although it was widely believed he was a scapegoat.

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Speaker 2: VI Laplan and two teammates with whom he had previously

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Speaker 2: played were suspected of being the real plotters. All three

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Speaker 2: players were soon let go. Right, So the team manager

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Speaker 2: gets banned forever. He gets shit canned with two of

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Speaker 2: his colleagues, but they're not banned from the sport. I

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Speaker 2: think because he's you know that the kind of shine

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Speaker 2: off of leading the team in the World Cup is

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Speaker 2: still on him a little bit. So he's he's generally

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Speaker 2: agreed to have been the mastermind of this scheme, but

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Speaker 2: he doesn't pay the as much of a price as

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Speaker 2: the team manager does. He's still a top player after this,

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Speaker 2: and so after antigue collapses, like this club collapses, he

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Speaker 2: gets pulled in by NIS's team, right. And however, by

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Speaker 2: this point in the early nineteen thirties, Vi Laplan is

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Speaker 2: no longer in his prime. He's getting older. He's basically

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Speaker 2: taking his calories are nothing but hard liquor, right with

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Speaker 2: like brothels for dessert. You know, like he's not eating food,

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Speaker 2: he's eating liquor and brothels, and he's engaging in yeah, brothels,

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Speaker 2: like that's his entire diet, and he's also gambling uncontrollably

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Speaker 2: and burning all of his money that he's not really sleeping.

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Speaker 2: It has an impact on his ability on the court,

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Speaker 2: you know. So his next few years as a as

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Speaker 2: a footballer are notably less impressive than the previous ones

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Speaker 2: had been. He misses regular training sessions because he's hungover, right,

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Speaker 2: He'll just be absent when he's supposed to be practicing

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Speaker 2: with the team because he's you know, or in a

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Speaker 2: lot of cases, he's still drunk from the night before.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes he's even still drinking. A lot of times, it's

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Speaker 2: a combination of all three. When he makes it to practice,

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Speaker 2: he's often still kind of wasted and just not able

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Speaker 2: to function. And he makes it, you know, when he

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Speaker 2: is well enough to actually play in games, and he's not,

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Speaker 2: you know, spacing out of that he's noted by sports

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Speaker 2: writers for seeming to be out of shape and barely

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Speaker 2: able to focus on the game itself. And after a

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Speaker 2: few seasons, Nice lets him go, right, They're like, you're

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Speaker 2: not really worth paying and now we actually have to

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Speaker 2: pay you, right, And this marks the first time when

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Speaker 2: he get shit canned by Nice. This is the first

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Speaker 2: time that he leaves a team without choosing to do

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Speaker 2: so to get better pay somewhere else, right, so that's

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Speaker 2: kind of noteworthy. This is functionally the end of his

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Speaker 2: career in football, although he continues. He goes to another team,

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Speaker 2: a second division team in Bordeaux, who are kind of

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Speaker 2: willing to take this guy because they're not as good

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Speaker 2: a team, so you know, he's still an upgrade for them,

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Speaker 2: but they only really like the Bordeaux only condescends to

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Speaker 2: hire him because they're being managed by his former mentor,

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Speaker 2: that Scotsman Gibson. And even in this situation where his

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Speaker 2: mentor is running the team and he's got an end,

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Speaker 2: he can only last three months before he gets fired

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Speaker 2: for refusing to turn up to training sessions and games. Right,

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Speaker 2: he just won't do the job.

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Speaker 4: He sounds like a fun time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's fucking great, Like you had it all man,

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Speaker 2: Like you could have easily kept going for at least

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Speaker 2: a few more years. But yeah, he's just not able

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Speaker 2: to sober up to like make the game. You know

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Speaker 2: who else can't sober up to do their jobs? Sponsors

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Speaker 2: of this podcast, Yeah, welcome back to Behind the Bastards,

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Speaker 2: a podcast about football. The soccer of sports. So by

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Speaker 2: the mid nineteen thirties, be Leaplon's career in pro football

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Speaker 2: is over and he transitions, i have to say, very seamlessly,

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Speaker 2: to what has become his true passion. You know, he's

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Speaker 2: over football. He's getting into a new line of work,

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Speaker 2: gambling badly. He is now a professional gambler, and he

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Speaker 2: sucks at it, right, He's a horrible at this job,

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Speaker 2: and he can't stop getting caught from doing He's doing

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Speaker 2: like really high stakes bad gambling. Like it's not enough

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Speaker 2: to like lose at the horse tracks or like, you know,

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Speaker 2: lose money playing fucking blackjack or whatever. He's constantly getting

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Speaker 2: in trouble for trying to fix different sporting events, which

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Speaker 2: is like the one way as a rich guy to

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Speaker 2: get in trouble for gambling outside of just losing your money,

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Speaker 2: you know. So in nineteen thirty five, he gets caught

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Speaker 2: fixing horse races both in Paris and Cote Desure, and

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Speaker 2: before you know, his charm and his fame as a

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Speaker 2: beloved sports hero had been enough that when he got

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Speaker 2: caught doing shit like this, like the last time, he

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Speaker 2: avoided the most serious trouble. Right, because he's beloved it

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Speaker 2: and he's charming. He's not that anymore. He is a

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Speaker 2: washed up, alcoholic, degenerate gambler who is no longer good

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Speaker 2: at football. So he gets sent to prison after this

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Speaker 2: time in nineteen thirty five, and he does some time, right,

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Speaker 2: not a lot of time, but you know enough that

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Speaker 2: it's been made clear you do not enjoy the same

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Speaker 2: kind of benefit of the doubt that had previously accompanied

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Speaker 2: you in your sporting career and your life. So this

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Speaker 2: is not the last time he's going to be locked

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Speaker 2: up for gambling related crimes. It's going to happen to

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Speaker 2: him periodically over the next few years before World War two,

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Speaker 2: and he spends the remainder of the pre war years

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Speaker 2: cheating on his several wives. He has a couple of divorces,

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Speaker 2: I think three during this period of time, and it's

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Speaker 2: always because he's cheating constantly, and he becomes it. He

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Speaker 2: does some more time in jail, he gets caught, you know,

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Speaker 2: doing other gambling crimes. It becomes a figure of minimal

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Speaker 2: note in the world of Parisian organized crime. Right, he's

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Speaker 2: kind of in part due to his debts. He's like working.

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Speaker 2: I think he's basically being muscle sometimes for some of

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Speaker 2: these like gangsters and whatnot, because he owes them and

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Speaker 2: he doesn't really have any other skills. But he's fit

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Speaker 2: or you know, he's in better shape than most people. Right,

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Speaker 2: so we could beat somewhat up. Maybe. So war clouds

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Speaker 2: start to gather above Western Europe, and Alexander shows no

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Speaker 2: interest whatsoever, either in joining the fascist or in fighting

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Speaker 2: them to protect his home country. Right again, because he

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Speaker 2: doesn't consider France's home country. This is part of why.

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Speaker 2: Also because he's Algerian, he's I think he does. I

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Speaker 2: think he has citizenship technically, but he still doesn't consider

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Speaker 2: himself French in the way that like people born on

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Speaker 2: the mainland do. And he's also because he's Algerian, he's

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Speaker 2: got this kind of inroads because a lot of the

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Speaker 2: organized crime world are people who are on the margins, right,

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Speaker 2: They're people who don't benefit from citizenship. They're people who

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Speaker 2: you know, are are in a more marginal place, and

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Speaker 2: so they wind up kind of associating with organized crime

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Speaker 2: because they don't they're never benefit from like a legal

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Speaker 2: position in society. And you know, because of his stardom

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Speaker 2: he had and he had that opportunity but he still

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Speaker 2: identifies more with that side of things, which is part

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Speaker 2: of why this kind of is the direction he takes.

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Speaker 2: So it becomes clear when Germany and the USSR invade Poland,

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Speaker 2: it becomes clear that France and Germany are going to

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Speaker 2: have them a war, and France starts, you know, hoovering

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Speaker 2: up all of the young men they can because they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: we got to throw some boys that the Germans again,

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Speaker 2: we might have another couple of years of that, and

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Speaker 2: Alexander wants no part of this. His biographer Luke Breand writes,

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Speaker 2: alex would have liked to stay away from the march

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Speaker 2: towards war that was leading Europe to disaster. He was

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Speaker 2: easily satisfied with this life of gambling women and petty trafficking,

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Speaker 2: but it was impossible to escape from. June nineteen thirty nine,

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Speaker 2: France began recalling its reservists. VI Laplan was one of

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Speaker 2: them and joined the four hundred and sixteenth Pioneer Regiment,

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Speaker 2: based in the Jura, far from any possible front. This

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Speaker 2: unit was primarily intended to accompany the movement of the

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Speaker 2: combatant regiments by digging trenches for them and setting up cantonments,

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Speaker 2: no machine guns or tanks here. The men's only weapons

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Speaker 2: are shovels, picks, and a few vague libel rifles. Right,

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Speaker 2: so he gets he gets called up. He's not with

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Speaker 2: a combat unit. They're like combat engineers basically, and he's

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Speaker 2: not even going to really do that, right. France's war

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Speaker 2: with the Germans winds up being brief, or at least

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Speaker 2: the kind of much like again, this is a mirror

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Speaker 2: of what happens in Algeria. The war on the ground

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Speaker 2: is very brief. Obviously, France puts up more of a

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Speaker 2: you know, more of a military fight than Algeria does.

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Speaker 2: Like the casualties that Germany suffers, pretty significant casualties, which

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Speaker 2: we often kind of gloss over, like this is not

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Speaker 2: a total cake walk for them, but it is over

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Speaker 2: very quickly, right, And it's going to be a situation

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Speaker 2: like in Algeria where the actual sort of open conflict

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Speaker 2: is over shortly and then we transition to this more

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Speaker 2: this insurgent warfare which lasts a lot longer.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: And I do think it's really interesting how these things

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Speaker 2: mirror each other and how you know, the side that

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Speaker 2: vi Laplan is going to find himself on in this case.

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Speaker 2: So Paris falls to the Nazis in June of nineteen forty,

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Speaker 2: and vie Laplan happily ends his service in a defeated military.

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Speaker 2: He might have been happy to return to his life

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Speaker 2: of debauchery, you know, to return to the women and

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Speaker 2: the gambling and the petty crime, if a better opportunity

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Speaker 2: hadn't presented itself, and it very quickly does. So the

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Speaker 2: Nazis are occupying Paris herself at this point, right, And

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Speaker 2: so you've got all these foreign officers, these Germans and Austrians,

404
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Speaker 2: who I mean, they're all technically Germans for our purposes,

405
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Speaker 2: but they're new to France and they don't know the

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Speaker 2: lay of the land. But number one, they're corrupt as hell.

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Speaker 2: Like the Nazi regime is a gangster regime. Especially all

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Speaker 2: of these SS guys who are in country are just

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Speaker 2: gangsters by mindset, in a lot of cases by background.

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Speaker 2: And also they're just like military officers who are occupying

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Speaker 2: any country in any point in history. They want luxuries

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Speaker 2: that they're not supposed to have, that they're not being

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Speaker 2: provided by their government, and that are hard to come

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Speaker 2: by in wartime. Right, respectable French citizens number one, often

415
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Speaker 2: don't have access to this stuff either because they're respectable

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Speaker 2: French citizens. So when the nice stuff is harder to

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Speaker 2: come by because there's a war on, they don't have it.

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Speaker 2: So the people who have access to the luxuries and

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Speaker 2: who are willing to sell them to the occupiers are

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Speaker 2: the criminals, right, And it's these members of the underworld

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Speaker 2: who in their attitude. Again, a lot of these people

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Speaker 2: are not French citizens. They're living in France, but they're

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Speaker 2: you know, in a lot of cases, Algerians are members

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Speaker 2: of like other you know, immigrant populations. They've never had

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Speaker 2: a legal status or their legal status has been questionable,

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Speaker 2: and they're also working in a criminal enterprise. So their

427
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Speaker 2: attitude is like, look, does it matter if we're breaking

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Speaker 2: the law under the French Republic or the German right,

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Speaker 2: Like whatever, we're we're criminals either way, Who gives a shit?

430
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 2: You know. So they have this very and you know,

431
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 2: to an extent, especially if you're an Algerian, why would

432
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 2: you immediately assume the Nazis or any worse than the

433
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 2: French Republic given what they've done to your people, Right,

434
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: it just doesn't make a lot of sense that you'd

435
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: be particularly pissed at the Nazis in nineteen forty. Right,

436
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 2: So a lot of these black market guys, these smugglers

437
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 2: and whatnot, are only too happy to serve whoever's got

438
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 2: cash on hand. And I want to quote from an

439
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: article in the Blizzard. Quote as soon as the armistice

440
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 2: was signed on June nineteen forty, Vi Laplan tried his

441
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 2: hand at racketeering in blackmail, his preferred targets being black

442
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 2: marketeers and Jews. He was immediately arrested for handling hot goods, however,

443
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 2: and it was in jail that he was approached by

444
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: Henry Lafont, one of the most reviled figures of the

445
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 2: collaboration to many, a psychopath, a sadist, but first and

446
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: foremost an opportunist, to convince the occupier that he was

447
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: someone they could do business with by leading them to

448
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: the destruction of a whole Belgian resistance network. And so

449
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 2: Vi Lapland is immediately like, okay, the Nazis are in charge. Oh,

450
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 2: I can really fuck over like Jewish French people, right,

451
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 2: Like nobody's going to come after me, right, and nobody's

452
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 2: going to be paying attention to my petty crimes. But

453
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: he's really bad at petty crime, and so he's still mad.

454
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: He gets in trouble in Nazi Paris for like scamming

455
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 2: Jewish people, like that's hard, you have to be bad

456
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 2: as a scammer.

457
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 4: Oh god.

458
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 2: So he gets fucking locked up. And there's this this

459
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 2: mafia figure, Henry Lafont, right, who had been an organized

460
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: crime figure who once the Germans take over, he basically

461
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 2: uses his connections to help them destroy this resistance network

462
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 2: in Belgium, and the SS is like, hey, you're useful.

463
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 2: Could you put together a team of like locals who

464
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: we can rely on to do stuff like what you

465
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: just did to this Belgian network, right, Like, we're having

466
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: some trouble with the French resistance. Can you get us

467
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: some local criminals who know the lay of the land

468
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: and can help us dismantle these developing resistance networks? And

469
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 2: Lafont is like, of course I can, baby, Like I'm

470
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: a piece of shit. I am so down for this job, right.

471
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: Henri Lafont is described by the Guardian as an illiterate

472
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: orphan turned rampant ne'er do well, which is just a

473
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 2: charming do well.

474
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 4: Does he do well?

475
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: Ne ne ne and it's it's a funny to describe

476
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: a guy who winds up working for the s S

477
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 2: to dismantle resistant networks as a ne'er do well. We're

478
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: a little beyond ne'er doing well.

479
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 4: Right.

480
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 2: He is as shady a character as they come. And

481
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 2: Lafont rubs a lot of people the he you know,

482
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 2: he has a mixed relationship with these different Germans, right,

483
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 2: because a lot of the German military guys who are

484
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: responsible for the occupation of Paris are Prussians, right. They're

485
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 2: these old Prussian military, you know, a lot of cases

486
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: members of the nobility. They have these these very old

487
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 2: fashioned attitudes about the right way and the wrong way

488
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 2: to do things, and about honor, and they don't like

489
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: all of the criminals that they're associating with to try

490
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 2: to win this developing insurgent war. But and you've got

491
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 2: the SS, who are basically gangster, like the Nazis or

492
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: a gangster regime, and the SS are basically gangsters themselves.

493
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: And the SS is really down to work with these guys, right,

494
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: because they're you know, we're all the same kind of

495
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: asshole more or less. So the SS sees potential in

496
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: a man like Lafont, a man with no loyalties towards

497
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 2: anything but himself, and the promise of a payday and

498
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 2: a deep well of knowledge about how things are done,

499
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 2: you know, in the underground. And the SS gives Lafont

500
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: a choice. Work for us and help us round up

501
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: Jews and crack down on the growing resistance, and you

502
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: get a place in the new order. And Lafont is

503
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: like fucking hell yeah, I want to quote from Doyle's book.

504
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: The more Lafont's influence grew, the more he recruited. He

505
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 2: toured the Parisian prisons, arranging the release of old associates

506
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: and anyone who could help consolidate his powerful place in

507
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: the perverted new social order. Pierre Bonnie Wants, the most

508
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: famous police officer in France before being disgraced and chilled

509
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 2: for corruption, became his right hand man. At some point

510
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 2: they hooked up with Vi la Plan, who's assorted activities

511
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 2: now included gold smuggling. The gang set up their headquarters

512
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: at ninety three Rue Lauriston, probably the most infamous address

513
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 2: in Parisian history, the home of the gang that became

514
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: known as the French Gestapo. Right wow, So Lafont partners

515
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 2: with this corrupt French police officer who got fired by

516
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: the Republic, and then you know, the Nazis bring back

517
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 2: and they start hooking up with Villa Plan, right, and

518
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 2: initially he's their driver, he's like their chauffeur, but obviously

519
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: driver for these guys, you're doing bodyguard work, you're acting

520
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: as muscle, right, and their goal is to make money.

521
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 2: These guys are with the SS. They are going to

522
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: be wearing SS uniforms. They're not ideologically in love with Hitler.

523
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 2: I doubt they've read Mindkompf. They're anti Semitic, but like

524
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: the normal kind of French anti semitic, where they're like, oh,

525
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 2: we can fuck with these people now, I always hate it.

526
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: Let's rob them, you know, I never liked them. We

527
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 2: can take their stuff now, Yeah.

528
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 4: See what side their bread is buttered on? Right? More

529
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 4: like cynical the Nazism.

530
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, their pre existing biases are compatible with Nazism

531
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 2: because they are racist against Jewish people. But that's not

532
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 2: like the primary motivation, right, The primary motivation is out

533
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 2: there's money in this shit, right, And so you know

534
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: they start tracking down you know, Jewish refugees and people

535
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: who have like gone into the underground to try to

536
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: avoid the SS dragnet that's growing in this period. So

537
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: they're tracking down Jews for the SS, they're tracking down

538
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 2: resistance fighters and helping to bust resistance cells. They're helping

539
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: in general for the SS to police the enemies of

540
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 2: the Reich and from their headquarters in ninety three Rule Rista,

541
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: they are torturing hundreds of people, right, They're not, they

542
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: are they're murdering people. There's a lot of like executions

543
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: and whatnot, but there's also just a lot of you know,

544
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 2: pulling out of fingernat just yeah, torture, torture, right, like

545
00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: it's it's gnarly shit. So better known as the Carlink,

546
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: the French Gestapo saw the new Order as an opportunity

547
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: for personal wealth and power. VI Laplan had known Lorent

548
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: because for years they'd both kind of been involved in

549
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: similar aspects of the underworld together. And as I said,

550
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: he's brought in as a chauffeur for higher ranking criminals

551
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: who made a place for themselves in the Carlink at first,

552
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: but he exhibits the same kind of work, ethic and

553
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: skill at social manipulation that had previously served him so

554
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: well in football, Right, this is the kind of thing

555
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: he'd gotten sort of burnt out on football, but now

556
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: he's got a chance to be in the SS. It's

557
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: like his career gets a second lease on life, right, like, ah,

558
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: this is what I wanted to be doing the whole time.

559
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: Perfect for me. So in short order, Dean Kane joining Ice, right, right,

560
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: he's a he's Dean Kane joining Ice where he's like, ah,

561
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 2: you know, my Superman years are behind me, but my

562
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: Aryan Superman years may not be behind me. Even though

563
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: I am out, my uber Men cheers are still ahead

564
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: of me. Right, And again, this is a kind of thing.

565
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: There's a lot of misconceptions people have about the way Nazisms,

566
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: white supremacy and like racial supremacy worked, where we say, like, well,

567
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: they're Nazis, they're obviously white supremacists. That doesn't mean that

568
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: they were white supremacists in a way that translates totally

569
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: directly to the way a lot of white supremacists are

570
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: are racist today. Right, Nazi racism is a little different

571
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: from a lot like og Nazi racism is a lot

572
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: different from even like the way the KKK was racist,

573
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: because this is not straight up white supremacy in the area,

574
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 2: like being white is not what matters most.

575
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: Right.

576
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: For one thing, their whole attitude is that being Aryan

577
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: and kind of bringing back through breeding. You know, we've

578
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: got the kind of the Norwegians, the Nordic peoples, and

579
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: the Germans are closest to this Aryan race, right, and

580
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: so we want to through eugenics and whatnot and through

581
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 2: careful like breeding of our population, recreate this Aryan race.

582
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: But we're working towards it. So that's a difference from

583
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: just well, we're white and we're superior to everybody, right,

584
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: there's a difference there, and there's other differences in that

585
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: there's there's this belief in kind of a global hierarchy

586
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: of races that is more fluid than you get with

587
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: kind of a lot of modern white supremacists. For one thing,

588
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: the Germans are working with the Japanese right, and Hitler's attitude.

589
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: Hitler's goal is not I want Germany to rule the

590
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: entire world. It's Germany is going to be in control

591
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: of Europe, you know, stretching basically almost into into China,

592
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 2: right all across the Russian steps and there will be

593
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: spheres of influence right in Japan will control this other

594
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: sphere of influence, right. And it's not that they don't

595
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: consider themselves superior to the Japanese, but it's not quite

596
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: as simplistic as a lot of racism is today. And

597
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: so as a result, there is room within this Nazi

598
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: movement for people who are not white and who are

599
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 2: not Christian. And one of the examples of this is

600
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 2: as the SS. As Lafont's you know, starts working for

601
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: the SS. In collaboration with the SS, he creates a

602
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: unit called the BNA, which roughly translates to the North

603
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: African Brigade, and this is made up of I think

604
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: fifty to one hundred Algerian French residents that the SS

605
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: decides they can trust to crack down on the French resistance.

606
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: And a lot of these guys, obviously, vie Laplan is

607
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: a European Algerian or European descented Algerian, but a lot

608
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: of these BNA guys are Arab and they're Muslim, right,

609
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: And part of why the SS decides they're trustworthy is

610
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: that because of all of the shit that France had

611
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: done to Algeria and the genocide that basically had been

612
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: carried out in you know over the decades, right with

613
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: around two million people killed, including a mass amount of starvation.

614
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: Because of that, the SS is very astutely like, well,

615
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: these people aren't loyal to France. They're certainly not loyal

616
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: to the regular French population. We can use them, right,

617
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: And so Hitler had started in the early forties, right

618
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: when Germany takes over France, funding an Arabic language French

619
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: newspaper which was geared towards recruiting and radicalizing Muslims who

620
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 2: had immigrated to France from colonized nations, and the paper

621
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 2: described Hitler as almost a Mahdi like figure. The Mahdi

622
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: is this, I mean, it's both this figure and kind

623
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: of Islamic theology. But also there had been a guy

624
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: in North Africa called the Mahdi who had led this

625
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: rebellion against the British right. And Hitler is describing himself

626
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: in these propaganda papers to the Arab population of France

627
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: as this messianic figure who is bent on Hitler's goal

628
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: is to free colonized people from the shackles of their

629
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: Western oppressors and put an end to colonialism and communism.

630
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 4: Right.

631
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: That's how Hitler's is portraying himself to this community, because

632
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: he's like, look, I don't care about India. Free India, sure,

633
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: free India, right, like, because that'll hurt the British, Right,

634
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: that's what I care about. The war with India is

635
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 2: so far outside of my like area of giving a shit.

636
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: Of course she can be free. I'm an anti colonialist

637
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: hero me ad Al Hitler, right, yeah, beneficial, Yeah, Like

638
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: he's just he's fine with this, right, And it's he's

639
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: also Hitler is insanely jealous of Great Britain and the

640
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 2: United States, And there's a real there's a degree to

641
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: which his his the thing he's angry about is like

642
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 2: kind of fair is the wrong word, but like he's

643
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: pissed because like, well, they got to do a genocide,

644
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: genocides and steal everyone's land and no one's pissed at them.

645
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: Why can't Germany? Why why don't I get to do this?

646
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 4: Right? Like?

647
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: And that is like a major thing for Hitler. So

648
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: the fact that it's it's often gets left out of

649
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: our discussions of Nazism, but part of Hitler's propaganda is

650
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 2: to portray himself as you know, this kind of anti

651
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: colonial figure to certain groups of people, and in fact,

652
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: the BNA, this North African SS group that's going to

653
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: be trying to cut down the resistance in France, is

654
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 2: not the only instance in which non white soldiers were

655
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: admitted to the SS. Which this is a little bit

656
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: of a side story, but it's one of my favorite

657
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 2: weird side stories from the Second World War. There was

658
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: a unit in the SS called the Indish or Indian

659
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 2: Legion that was made up entirely of Muslim and Hindu

660
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 2: Indian soldiers in the SS. Hey, everyone, Robert here just

661
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: wanted to clarify the Indish Legion was initially started as

662
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: part of the Wehrmacht and then it was absorbed by

663
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: the Waffen SS later in the war, so it was

664
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: ultimately part of the SS, but it started as a

665
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: project with the Wehrmacht. That explains the discrepancy and the

666
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: quote I read anyway, just wanted to make a note

667
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: of that. Per a study by Baijelanti Roy published by

668
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: Oxford Academic quote set up jointly by Subhas Chandra Bose,

669
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 2: who is an Indian independence leader and the Wehrmacht. In

670
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: nineteen forty one. The Legion composed about thirty five hundred

671
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: volunteers from the Indian POWs who belonged to the British

672
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: Imperial Army that had fought the Germans in Africa. In

673
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: order to integrate the newly formed Legion, the Indian soldiers

674
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: needed to be provided proper training by the German military personnel.

675
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: An important element of this training was ideological indoctrination into

676
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: the Nazi worldview. Several India experts, who were not all

677
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 2: academic specialists on India, were called on to mediate between

678
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: the German army and the Indian soldiers, not only as

679
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: interpreters but also as propagandists of Nazi ideology, right, and

680
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 2: so to propagandaize this very peculiar unit in the Nazi military.

681
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: Urdu and Hindu speaking authors are brought in to write

682
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 2: a magazine edited by Germans called Bybond and the overall

683
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 2: project is a failure, right. They these guys do briefly

684
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: see combat in France actually after the Normandy landings, but

685
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: they don't they like basically roll over immediately. They see

686
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 2: which way the war is going, like we're not going

687
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: to die for the fucking the Third Reich. Are you

688
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: kidding me? So this doesn't have much of an impact

689
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 2: on the war, and this has very little. The hope

690
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: had been that if Indians over in India see you know, liberated,

691
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: you know, Muslim the Hindu soldiers fighting together against the British,

692
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 2: that it'll spark a rebellion in India. Basically, that doesn't

693
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: work at all. Right, this is not one of the

694
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 2: more successful Nazi plans. But speaking of successful Nazi nope, uh,

695
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 2: here's a lot of Yeah, probably shouldn't do that. Listen

696
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:28,479
Speaker 2: to some ads. Forget what I just said. We're back.

697
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: You've all forgotten that I just compared our sponsors to

698
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: the Third Reich. You know, nobody needs to think about

699
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: that anymore. We're done, We're good, We're back to Alexander

700
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 2: vi Laplan. So vi laplan is that the BNA is

701
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 2: created this North African unit that's going to be helping

702
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 2: to destroy the resistance. And Vi Laplon is made oberstmfeer

703
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 2: or lieutenant of a unit of around one hundred men.

704
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 2: And it's possible, if not likely, that his status as

705
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: a white Frenchman essentially close enough helped him secure this place,

706
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: but but it's likely ear that he'd simply done a

707
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 2: good job of making himself useful already. The Guardian rites

708
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: of the bna's crimes. In Philipeziza's authoritative nineteen seventy book

709
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: on the Lafont and Bonnie Gang, the following story is told.

710
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 2: Following a tip off from a source and the Peris Gestapo,

711
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 2: Alex and three of his men burst into the home

712
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: of Jean vive Lenard, accused of harboring a jew. They

713
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 2: ransacked the house. Alex seizes the fifty nine year old

714
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 2: mother of six by the hair. Where is your jew?

715
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 2: He shouts. The lady refuses to answer. Alex picks her

716
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: up brutally pushes her into a neighboring farm, hitting her

717
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: with his rifle butt on the way, and there he

718
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: forces her to watch an appalling scene men from the

719
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 2: BNA torture two peasants in front of her. After being

720
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: beaten and set ablaze. The two peasants were machine gunned

721
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: from close range. Alex laughs. During his time, some other

722
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 2: men from the BNA had located the jew, Antoine Bachmann.

723
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: They bring him to the farm, Alex hits him and

724
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 2: then arrests him He then orders Jean vive Lenard to

725
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: give him two hundred thousand francs. So we've broken back.

726
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 2: That's pretty hideous, Like, yeah, that's real, just evil. Yeah,

727
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 2: he is. Effectively, he's that character from Inglorious Bastards. He's

728
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: the real version right where there's no charm, there's no

729
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: point at which he's like, oh he's evil, but he's

730
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 2: like this like evil genius who's like cruel, but there's

731
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 2: this degree of like you just want to keep watching him, right, No,

732
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,439
Speaker 2: this is the real version of that guy, right where

733
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 2: he is just beating a fifty nine year old woman

734
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: with a fucking pistol bud. He's having people lit on fire,

735
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 2: and then you just random peasants machine gunned after being

736
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: lit on fire. Like this is the real version of

737
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 2: that character, you know. So over the last year or

738
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: so of the war which France, or at least the

739
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: last year that France spends under German German dominance during

740
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: the war, Vi Laplan and his men are responsible for

741
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 2: dozens of executions and turning over countless Jews to the Gestapo.

742
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: And he makes a fortune during this period of time.

743
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: By some accounts, he becomes as wealthy or wealthier than

744
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 2: he'd ever been during the height of his football career,

745
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: because he's taking shitloads of bribes, right, and a lot

746
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 2: of times he's taking bribes, and he's turning these these people,

747
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: these Jews, these resistance figures in any way. We'll talk

748
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: about the other things that he's getting bribe for in

749
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 2: a sec But he and the BNA become notorious and

750
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: they earn a nickname among the resistance. And this nickname

751
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: is of course based in the racism that was quite

752
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: common even among the Frenchmen fighting the Nazis. They called

753
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: them the ss Mohammed. Right again, there's no non racist

754
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: side in this conflict.

755
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, now this is just flat bat Yeah, this is.

756
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 2: Just all pretty ugly. Right. Obviously the resistance is the

757
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: right side, but that doesn't mean these guys that number one.

758
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 2: A lot of people who fought in the resistance had

759
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 2: been unapologetic colonialist bigots prior to the German occupation and

760
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 2: continued being after. And just also, war doesn't make anyone

761
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: a better person, right, So they had other nicknames. The

762
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: non racist members of the resistance would call them the falange,

763
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: which is a term that gets used around a lot

764
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 2: of different fascist groups, So like, that's just kind of

765
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: calling them what you would call like the Spanish, you know,

766
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: the Falanges is like a term, a term that a

767
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: lot of different European fascist groups used, so that one's fine.

768
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: Some locals also called them lebeco, which is a colonial

769
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 2: slur for non white denizens of French possessions. Author Robert

770
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 2: Pike describes they were a strange looking bunch at best,

771
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: dressed in a combination of sheepskin jackets with baggy blue

772
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: boiler suits and berets. They wore thick leather belts with

773
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 2: a Waffen SS buckle and were armed with machine guns

774
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 2: and grenades. So weird looking uniforms on these guys. One

775
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 2: of the stranger units in World War Two, the BNA.

776
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: They receive combat training from the SS, but these guys

777
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 2: are thugs and gangsters first, right, so they don't. They

778
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: avoid direct combat with the resistance whenever possible because they're

779
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 2: not good at that, right, And the resistance is getting

780
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: as the war comes to a close in France, increasingly

781
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: competent and well armed because more stuff's getting through the

782
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 2: out from the Allies, and as a result the BNA

783
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 2: they're avoiding. They want to avoid fighting directly with the resistance,

784
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: which means when the resistance carries out a successful attack,

785
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: they're not going in and attacking the resistance. They're just

786
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 2: massacring civilians with the goal of forcing the resistance to

787
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: make difficult choices. Right, Basically, we're going to try and

788
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 2: stop them from carrying out attacks because they know that

789
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 2: will massacre villagers when they do. We're not even trying

790
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: to fight them, right because will be bad at that.

791
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 4: Right.

792
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 2: Yes, this is all awful. I mean, it's the calculus

793
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 2: of war for the resistance, and this is how a

794
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: lot of counterinsurgency actually winds up in practice, whether it's

795
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: the Nazis or the Americans doing it where you know,

796
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 2: even if you're not supposed to, it's a lot easier

797
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 2: to do reprisals against unarmed civilians. So that's what you do.

798
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: Much of this, much of these these like reprisal attacks

799
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: again civilian populations, are being done on the orders of

800
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: Michael Hambrecht, who is the Gestapo head of Dordon, and

801
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 2: he used the BNA as his dedicated war crimes unit

802
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: in support of the eleventh Panzer Division of the Hmacht.

803
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: One of the things this does is it. Lets there's

804
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 2: this myth that comes up postwar that like, well, the

805
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 2: SS was bad, but the Verhrmacht was mostly clean, right,

806
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: there was like a clean branch of the German army

807
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 2: and there wasn't the verhmachder involved in a lot of

808
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 2: war crimes. And part of how some of these units

809
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: avoid more direct things is like, well, the Wehrmacht when

810
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: they need to move in to fight a resistance cell,

811
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 2: we'll send the Verhrmacht in. But we have the Algerians

812
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: massacring civilians on our behalf, right, because they're doing these

813
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: war crimes to try to roll up these networks or

814
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: get you know, torture citizens to get them to like

815
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 2: give up the locations of different resistance cells. Right, so

816
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: we've we're outsourcing our war crimes right to these, to

817
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: these This Algerian unit, the BNA, was so successful at this,

818
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 2: at least in the eye of the occupiers, that they

819
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: soon get seconded in addition to this Wehrmacht unit to

820
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: the second SS Panzer Division as well. Robert Pike writes

821
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 2: official records are scarce, but those available, as well as

822
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 2: the many eyewitness accounts and reports by the judicial police

823
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: tell of pillage, rape, plundering and burning of property, extortion

824
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 2: and profiteering. However, this was just the tip of the iceberg. Arrests, deportations,

825
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: or summary murders of civilians and executions of suspects took

826
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 2: place on an almost daily basis as an auxiliary police

827
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 2: force to the Gestapo. Its members held carte blanche to

828
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 2: do as they pleased. They were hardly accountable to anyone.

829
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 2: But the massacres were on a different scale. These were

830
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 2: ordered by the Germans and executed by the Falange. In March,

831
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 2: the town of Brontome was the first to feel the

832
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: full force, with twenty five hostages bust In to be

833
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: executed in a show of force designed to persuade the

834
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: local population to inform on resistance activity. The following day,

835
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 2: and Saint Marie de Shinak, a further twenty five hostages,

836
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: mainly Jews, were executed. Both were in retaliation for resistance ambushes.

837
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: Many other towns and villages suffered losses of innocent inhabitants

838
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 2: as well as resistant sympathizers Jews or refugees. The events

839
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: of eleventh of June nineteen forty four, by which time

840
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: it is likely that Alexandre vill Laplan was replaced by

841
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: the even more brutal Raimond manang Are, perhaps most striking

842
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 2: of all. On that day, in the town of Musadon,

843
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: twenty kilometers west of Paris, had its name etched into

844
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 2: the history of Nazi barbarity. An armored train heading from

845
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 2: Paris to Montpon was attacked by the resistance. Thirteen Germans

846
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: were killed in the firefight, and a further ten were

847
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 2: taken prisoner. Consequently, the entire male population of the town

848
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: and surrounding hamlets were rounded up and questioned, many tortured.

849
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 2: Michael Hambrecht arrived in the town late in the afternoon

850
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: along with thirty members of the Valange. Already visibly drunk.

851
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: He had been told to personally select fifty men for execution.

852
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 2: Of those under sixty years of age that had been retained.

853
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 2: He chose forty eight, who were then led to a

854
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: nearby alleyway overlooking farmland. Along the way, they passed the

855
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 2: line of men that had just been released. There they

856
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 2: stood in two rows for more than two hours until

857
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: they were mowed down by machine guns operated by flo

858
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: Lang members, who then finished off survivors with handguns. Later,

859
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 2: the mayor and his adjutant were tortured and killed, while

860
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 2: two other men were killed in the street, taking the

861
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 2: death toll that day to fifty two. All the bodies

862
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: were left where they fell. Miraculously, two men survived the massacre.

863
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: The town was then pillaged, and there's debate was Viletron

864
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: there was he not? Was he just there in the

865
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: massacres heading up to this. I've heard sources that say

866
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: he was there at Mussadan, some that say he actually

867
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 2: pulled the trigger and shot people directly during that day,

868
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 2: which was not He liked it. He didn't like to

869
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 2: get his hands dirty. But some of the stories at

870
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: least say that he did that day. It's a little long.

871
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 2: I don't have perfect evidence on it, but if he

872
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: wasn't there in Mussadan, he was there other days where

873
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 2: similar massacres were carried out. We just talked about him

874
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 2: having people lit on fire and machine gunned. But as

875
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: the war comes to an end, he's not stupid. He's

876
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 2: aware that the Nazis aren't winning and that VS. France's

877
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: days are numbered, and Alexander he's never been a true believer,

878
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 2: so he starts to hedge his bed as soon as

879
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 2: he realizes which way the wind is blowing. So during

880
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 2: this later period of time, while he's carrying out these massacres,

881
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: he starts pretending to be a resistance double agent, and

882
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 2: so he'll let captives go if they can pay. He'll

883
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: be like, you know, hey, I'm with the resistance, but like, also,

884
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: I need some cash, right. Oh god, he's the He's

885
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 2: the worst sort of person. He can't even commit to

886
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: pretending to be a double agent. One eyewitness describes him

887
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 2: arriving in a village one day and saying to a

888
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: group of prisoners, oh, in what times we live? Ours

889
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: is a terrible era, to what harsh extremes I am

890
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: reduced me a Frenchman compelled to wear a German uniform.

891
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 2: Have you seen, my brave people? What terrible atrocities these

892
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 2: savages have committed. I cannot be held responsible for them.

893
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 2: I am not their master. They are going to kill you,

894
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 2: but I will try to save you at the risk

895
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: of my own life. I've already saved many people, fifty

896
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 2: four to be precise, you will be the fifty fifth

897
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: if you give me four hundred thousand francs. He's such bullshit,

898
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: it's such a piece of shit.

899
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 4: It sucks so bad. He sucks so bad, awful.

900
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just yeah, that's that's a special kind of evil.

901
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: I'm excited.

902
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 4: I'm excited to hear about how he dies. Yeah, I know,

903
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 4: I didn't know this guy existed and now I meet

904
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 4: him so much.

905
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: So bad.

906
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we do here. So by the end

907
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 2: of summer of nineteen forty four, the jig was well

908
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: and truly up. Harris was liberated, with French colonial troops,

909
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 2: including a lot of Africans, being some of the first

910
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: soldiers to enter the city. This was a bloody period

911
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 2: of time for those who had suffered under years of

912
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 2: Nazi occupation, beat tortured, and sometimes murdered their fellow citizens

913
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 2: who'd acted as collaborators. Right, there's a lot of ugliness,

914
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 2: some of it understandable, where there's some people who had

915
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: done horrible things under the Nazis and they get their

916
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: just desserts. And there's also uglier things where like women

917
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 2: who had you know, been dating quote unquote members of

918
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 2: the German military, who knows how often they had a

919
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 2: choice in the matter, Right, they get like their hair

920
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: shaved and get beaten in public like, there's a lot

921
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 2: of ugly stuff that happens during this period of time too,

922
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 2: because not everyone who had been a quote unquote collaborator

923
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: really had a full choice in the matter, right. But

924
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 2: some of the people who are going to get their

925
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 2: just desserts are the French Gestapo and the you know

926
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 2: from the time that it's you know, they're planning retaking Paris,

927
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 2: the French government in exile, all these people know. We're

928
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 2: not going to leave these folks up to the populace

929
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: to take their vengeance on these people. We need to

930
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 2: make a public example on and you know Alexander. He

931
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 2: tries to hold onto his uniform as much as possible.

932
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 2: He attempts to as Paris falls, he attempts to use

933
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: his position with the SS to commit one last robbery

934
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 2: to fund his escape into Germany. He tries to scam

935
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: a man out of nine hundred dollars, an Armenian man

936
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: out of nine hundred dollars in a gold ring, in

937
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,399
Speaker 2: return for giving him back valuables that he'd stolen from

938
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: this Armenian man. But he gets overtaken by events, and

939
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 2: on August of twenty fourth, nineteen forty four, he gets

940
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 2: caught by a resistance agent with a and a fake

941
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 2: police identity card. VI Laplan is put on trial and

942
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: declared to be a con man and a murderer by

943
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 2: a French judge. He pleased desperately that I'd been working

944
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: for the resistance all along. No, I was really on

945
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: your side. I was a good guy. The all the

946
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 2: time does not work. It avails him nothing. This judge

947
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: is like, no, you're a con man and a monster,

948
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: and on the day after Christmas nineteen forty four, he

949
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:27,760
Speaker 2: is executed by firing squad along with seven of his colleagues. Yeah,

950
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 2: so we have a happy ending.

951
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like the thing to do to that

952
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 4: sort of person.

953
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, that's the story.

954
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 3: Oh I'm just like, yeah, oh, what a bad person,

955
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 3: What a bad person.

956
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,720
Speaker 2: What an interesting boomerang around from your kind of born

957
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 2: in this mix between colonizer and colonized, at least as

958
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 2: you see it right, where like you know, we might

959
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 2: see more accurately as a colonized, but his attitude on

960
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 2: it is a little more mixed than that. As a

961
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 2: young man, certainly his dad's attitude and certainly influenced in

962
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: his willingness this the brutal, the colonial brutality of the

963
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 2: French in Algeria. I think definitely does impact how willing

964
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 2: to like, like what happens, especially with these like North

965
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 2: African units in France, and why they're willing to do

966
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 2: some of the things that they're willing to do, right

967
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 2: because like you know, they've they've seen it before, they've

968
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 2: endured it before.

969
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 5: Right.

970
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, bad, bad times all around.

971
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 4: Bad times all around.

972
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 3: I guess see, uh, justice justice one out in the

973
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 3: end sort of.

974
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 2: He gets killed. You know, that's good. This is one

975
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 2: of our for behind the bastards. This is like as

976
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:46,720
Speaker 2: happy a story as we get. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway

977
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 2: you want to plug your pluckables, Yeah.

978
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, please listen to Noble Blood as a podcast about

979
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 5: historical royals and hoax a podcast about hoaxes throughout history

980
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 5: that I host of my friend Lizzie Logan.

981
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 4: You are Nazis, I can promise.

982
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 2: You we're not. You know that's always not zero, Yeah,

983
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 2: because you know, especially the British royal family, there's a few.

984
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 4: And also just like Nazis are popping up in.

985
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 2: History, they tend to do that. It's like the number

986
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 2: one thing Nazis do is pop up. Yeah, they're like

987
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 2: a They're like a bad taco restaurant.

988
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 4: I want to say this was a delight, This was

989
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 4: an education.

990
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go.

991
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 4: Well, but talking with you is delight.

992
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, but talking with you has been a delight to

993
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 2: listen to Noble Blood, listen to hoax exclamation and uh

994
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 2: yeah you know, keep listening to. Behind the Bastards will

995
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: be act next week with a guy who may or

996
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: may not be a Nazi but definitely sucked. Or maybe

997
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: a lady. Sometimes it's a lady, not often, but sometimes.

998
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

999
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1000
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1001
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1002
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1003
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 1: and Friday.

1004
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 2: Subscribe to our

1005
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: Channel YouTube dot com slash at Behind the Bastards