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Speaker 1: Uncle Clark was a criminal. Clark was my grandfather's brother

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Speaker 1: on my mother's side. He was a thief, a con artist,

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Speaker 1: and a swindler, and my mother was crazy about him.

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Speaker 1: As a little girl growing up in a strict Southern

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Speaker 1: Baptist home with her preacher father and her Sunday school

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Speaker 1: teaching Mama, Uncle Clark was like a carnival to her.

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Speaker 1: He was reality TV before it was a thing. He

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Speaker 1: would come busting into town in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 1: was some wild story about where he had been and

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Speaker 1: why he was kind of hiding out in town for

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Speaker 1: a minute. He also had tales of these exotic places

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Speaker 1: he had been and all these adventures he was involved in.

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Speaker 1: He always brought my mom some tres pleasure that he

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Speaker 1: had acquired just for her, like the time when she

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Speaker 1: was six years old and got diamond earrings, or the

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Speaker 1: time he brought a miniature horse with a tiny buggy

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Speaker 1: just her size. Now keep in mind this was during

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Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, the Great Depression, when everybody was broke, poor, penniless, well,

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Speaker 1: everybody except for her Uncle clauhurt. My mama did not

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Speaker 1: love him because he was a criminal. She loved him

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Speaker 1: in spite of it. Family loyalty runs strong in all

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Speaker 1: of us. Today. We ain't perfect, but family comes first always.

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Speaker 1: November the ninth, nineteen ninety eight is the last time

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Speaker 1: Melissa Wolfenburger's mama saw her alive. Her husband saw her

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Speaker 1: last December of nineteen ninety eight. She vanished without a trace.

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Speaker 1: Who was she connected to? Did she have a criminal record?

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Speaker 1: Was some body after her? Or did she leave on

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Speaker 1: her own? Let's start where it ended. This case takes

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Speaker 1: us to Atlanta, Georgia, which sits at the foothills of

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Speaker 1: the Appalachian Mountains, known for its famous Peachtree Street, Peachtree Road,

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Speaker 1: Peachtree Avenue, Peachtree Circle, Piedmont Park, which is known as

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Speaker 1: the City of Trees. It has the most trees of

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Speaker 1: any urban city in the United States. We have some

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Speaker 1: famous folks from here, Julia Roberts of Valholyfield, Bobby Jones,

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Speaker 1: John Pemberton, Spike Lee, Two Chains, Gladys Knight, President Carter,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Martin Luther King Junior. We are now known as

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Speaker 1: the Hollywood of the South. We're home to Cocola, Delta

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Speaker 1: Airlines home depot, and the Portia Headquarters. Atlanta is a vibrant, diverse,

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Speaker 1: welcoming city. It's got big city opportunities with small town charm.

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Speaker 1: It's April the twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine. All we

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Speaker 1: know is where the delivery driver found the skull. It's

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Speaker 1: unidentified human remains avon Avenue, next to a ripped trashbag.

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Speaker 1: It's a homicide. That's the manner of death. The cause

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Speaker 1: of death is undetermined. We don't know what killed this person.

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Speaker 1: The killer picked the dumping ground. It would make sense

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Speaker 1: that the killer was familiar with this area of town.

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Speaker 1: The primary crime scene we don't know. We don't know

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Speaker 1: where the person was actually murdered. There's three possible crime

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Speaker 1: scenes where the victim was killed, how the victim was

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Speaker 1: transported to the dumping ground, and the dumping site itself. Now,

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Speaker 1: the dumping site is outdoors, somewhat secluded, not well traveled.

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Speaker 1: It's a narrow, little two lane street there, again, a

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Speaker 1: little away from downtown. We don't know any ties the

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Speaker 1: victim had to the area. We don't know anybody tied

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Speaker 1: to the victim. We don't know anything about the victim

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Speaker 1: at all. The first major twist in this case, Talafara

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Speaker 1: County calls the Atlanta Police Department and say, hey, we've

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Speaker 1: got a body down here in a ravine with no head.

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Speaker 1: It might be your guy. So the Atlanta Police Department

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Speaker 1: takes the skull, goes to Talafara County. It's no match.

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Speaker 1: The second twist June third of nineteen ninety nine, four

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Speaker 1: more trash bags were found near where the skull was found.

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Speaker 1: Each of those trash bags contained an arm or a

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Speaker 1: leg no torso. So now in the same general area

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Speaker 1: we have two arms, two legs, and a skull. Again,

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Speaker 1: at this point in time, Atlanta has no missing Caucasian males.

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Speaker 1: Was the victim transient wherever they from out of state?

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Speaker 1: Was this a mob hit? Was this person connected to

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Speaker 1: the cartel? Let's talk about the suspects. There aren't any.

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Speaker 1: They have no idea who the victim is, so they

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Speaker 1: certainly have no idea who would want to harm him.

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Speaker 1: The police have nothing more to go on than what

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Speaker 1: they have found in the bags. Now here's the other

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Speaker 1: remarkable twist. At the same time that the Atlanta Police

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Speaker 1: Department is dealing with the unidentified skull, Melissa Wolfenberger, a

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Speaker 1: young married mother of two, has gone missing. Her parents

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Speaker 1: are worried, sick about her because this is not like her.

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Speaker 1: They saw her at Thanksgiving, they did not see her

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Speaker 1: at Christmas. Her mama got increasingly more worried as her

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Speaker 1: birthday rolled around. Melissa had never not contacted her on

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Speaker 1: her birthday. So her mama goes to her police department,

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Speaker 1: Henry County, and tries to report her missing, and Henry

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Speaker 1: County gently explains they can't take a missing person's report

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Speaker 1: for another jurisdiction. That she lived in Atlanta and that's

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Speaker 1: who she would have to report her missing to. Her

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Speaker 1: mama went to Atlanta and tried to make a report,

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Speaker 1: and Atlanta gently explained to her she's a married woman.

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Speaker 1: She could leave town if she wants to. We have

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Speaker 1: no evidence that anything has happened to her. Her husband

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Speaker 1: hasn't reported her missing, friends, neighbors, nobody has told us

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Speaker 1: anything nefarius has occurred. Her mama could not get law

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Speaker 1: enforcement to take a report, couldn't get them to start

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Speaker 1: a search, couldn't get them to start an investigation of

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Speaker 1: her whereabouts. Her mama, Norma Patton is with us right now,

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Speaker 1: and her sister, Tina Patton is with us right now,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to get right into the victimology of

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Speaker 1: this case. Norma, thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 1: Glad to be here. Tina, I appreciate you being with

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Speaker 1: us as well. Yes, ma'am, thank you. Tell us about Melissa.

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Speaker 1: Melissa was. She was quiet, She loved you, you knew it,

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Speaker 1: and she just had a lot of dreams when she

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Speaker 1: was in school. She loved animals. It didn't matter whether

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Speaker 1: it was a dog or a cat, or a rabbit

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Speaker 1: or whatever. I had to keep a rabbit for my

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Speaker 1: sister for a little while, and she went with me

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Speaker 1: to kick the rabbit up. She basically took care of

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Speaker 1: the rabbit. I was supposed to be the one taking

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Speaker 1: care of him, but she took care of the rep

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Speaker 1: But that's just she loved animals. It didn't matter what

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Speaker 1: it was. She just she loved them. She loved everybody,

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Speaker 1: and Tina, I know y'all were closed and did some

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Speaker 1: things like Baton lessons and Dan's lessons. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: your sister. She was quiet, like Mom said, but you know,

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Speaker 1: she loved animals and she loved you. Then you definitely

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Speaker 1: knew she loved you, but she kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: she was shy. She kept herself. The only way she

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Speaker 1: met knew people was through people she already knew normal.

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Speaker 1: When did you first know in your gut something was

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Speaker 1: wrong when she didn't come at Christmas or call because

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Speaker 1: she had asked me for something in particular, and she

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Speaker 1: said that was all the only thing she wanted and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't something now I could go to the store.

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Speaker 1: It was something I had had the fine, And what

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Speaker 1: it was was a picture of her with her papa,

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Speaker 1: her daddy father, and that's all she wanted was that picture.

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Speaker 1: So I found a picture of him and her together,

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Speaker 1: and she was only five years old, maybe six at

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Speaker 1: the most, and I took it and had it blown

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Speaker 1: up into a nake by pen and had it wrapped

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Speaker 1: up and under the Christmas tree. And she didn't call,

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Speaker 1: She didn't didn't come get it, you know, And that

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Speaker 1: was just that wasn't like her, now, Tina. At that point,

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Speaker 1: you and your dad weren't as worried as your mama,

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Speaker 1: because Melissa had been known to not show up before

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Speaker 1: for different reasons. But she didn't have a cell phone,

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Speaker 1: she didn't always have a car, she didn't always have

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Speaker 1: a way to get to y'all contact you, so when

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Speaker 1: did you start to get concerned. I didn't get concerned

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Speaker 1: until I was at worked one morning at her wolf

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Speaker 1: house in East Point, and here comes my dad walking

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Speaker 1: in the door, talking about, where's your sister? Dad, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why she hasn't worked with me in a while, now,

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Speaker 1: you know, a few months, at least at least six months.

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Speaker 1: And he said, because we can't find her. She didn't

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Speaker 1: show up for Christmas. And I was like, what, she

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Speaker 1: didn't show up for Christmas? And she didn't call your

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Speaker 1: mom and tell her Happy Birthday either, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, something's wrong. If she doesn't call mom

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Speaker 1: and tell her Happy birthday, something's really wrong. Melissa's life

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Speaker 1: was not always that easy. She had some issues in

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Speaker 1: her marriage. She had some issues with police. She had

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Speaker 1: been to jail a couple of times for small time

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Speaker 1: stuff like shoplifting or fighting. Y'all started checking jails, and

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Speaker 1: y'all started checking hospitals, and she wasn't anywhere normal. Where

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Speaker 1: all did you check? Where didn't we check? I even

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Speaker 1: called the main waffle house and talked to somebody in

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Speaker 1: personnel to find out if she was working at another

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Speaker 1: location somewhere, and they did not have her as an

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Speaker 1: employee anywhere, which surprised me that they even bothered to check.

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Speaker 1: But once I got into telling her why I was

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Speaker 1: asking the question, and you know, she looked according to

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Speaker 1: their records and couldn't find Melissa as an employee. So

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Speaker 1: that really that really shook me up. We went to

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Speaker 1: Atlanta on Brookline Avenue where they were living. The house

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Speaker 1: was completely deserted. We talked to some of the neighbors

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Speaker 1: and they said that the he had moved out of

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Speaker 1: the house right right around Christmas or the first of

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Speaker 1: the year, and they told us where he was working at.

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Speaker 1: So we went over there and talked to the to

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Speaker 1: the owner of the glass company, and they had fired

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Speaker 1: him because he had had gotten and I hit and

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Speaker 1: run and one of their trucks and he wasn't where

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Speaker 1: he was supposed to be, so they fired him. At

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Speaker 1: that point, we just didn't know. And right now it's

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Speaker 1: getting to be about a year since you've seen or

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Speaker 1: heard from her. Now I'm just gonna ask you straight out.

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Speaker 1: She might have left her husband, but would she have

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Speaker 1: ever left her two children? No way, the kids, the

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Speaker 1: kids were her life. She would There's no way she

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Speaker 1: would have she would have ever left them? And how

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Speaker 1: old were they right now? And eight? The girl was

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Speaker 1: three and the little boy was two. They are grown

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Speaker 1: adults now and the girl is twenty seven and the

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Speaker 1: boys twenty six. She left him one time, and she

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Speaker 1: went back because the kids. How long was she gone

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Speaker 1: was she left him the time she came and stayed

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Speaker 1: with me, she was gone a week? And they had

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Speaker 1: some domestic violence in their marriage. I mean it's documented

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Speaker 1: in police reports. And sometimes she would call the police

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Speaker 1: on him, and sometimes he'd call the police on her.

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Speaker 1: And it was volatile. It was more volatile on his end,

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Speaker 1: not on hers, because she wasn't a violent person. She

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Speaker 1: wouldn't fight you, And that's important to know. So here

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Speaker 1: comes the big twist. Carl Patton is arrested for four

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Speaker 1: murders that occurred in nineteen seventy three. Norma and his

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Speaker 1: wife turned state's evidence for immunity. Now let that marinate

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Speaker 1: a minute. Melissa Wolfenburger's father has been arrested for murders

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Speaker 1: that occurred in nineteen seventy three. He was originally arrested

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Speaker 1: for four murders, but that count went to five. Norma

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Speaker 1: and Carl agreed that they would go to court and

201
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Speaker 1: tell the truth, and both admitted to what happened. Carl

202
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Speaker 1: committed the murders. Norma helped him dispose of the bodies.

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Speaker 1: The man that arrested Carl was Bruce Jordan of the

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Speaker 1: Fete County Police Department. Melissa was missing at this time,

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Speaker 1: so Norma and Carl agreed that, hey, we need to

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Speaker 1: ask Major Jordan if he will find Melissa. And Carl said,

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Speaker 1: and this is a direct quote, he caught me after

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Speaker 1: twenty five years, he must be a pretty good detective.

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Speaker 1: So Norma goes to Major Bruce Jordan and says, my

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Speaker 1: daughter Melissa is missing. Will you please help find her.

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Speaker 1: Major Bruce Jordan says absolutely, I will help you, and

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Speaker 1: he goes and talks to Carl. He talks to Norma,

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Speaker 1: He gets the information and he starts to work and

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Speaker 1: one of the first things he realized is where Melissa's

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Speaker 1: husband worked at Action Glass and where the skull was

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Speaker 1: found was on the same street, a Von Avenue. So

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Speaker 1: he goes to the Atlanta Police Department and says, look,

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Speaker 1: this skull was found just feet away from where a

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Speaker 1: missing a woman's husband works. So they agreed on March thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three, to get the dental records and

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Speaker 1: have the medical examiner see if they could identify who

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Speaker 1: that skull belonged to. On March fourteenth, two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: the skull is identified as Melissa Wolfenberger. Her mama had

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Speaker 1: reported her missing in Henry County and Atlanta. She was

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Speaker 1: a married adult, so of course came up. Nothing we

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Speaker 1: can do about it. The husband's got a reporter. We

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Speaker 1: need to see that some overt act had happened to her.

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Speaker 1: There was no blood anywhere, there was no broken glass anywhere.

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Speaker 1: There was nothing to let anybody to think that a

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Speaker 1: crime had been committed. So now we have identified twenty

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Speaker 1: one year old mother of two small children, Melissa Wolfenberger,

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Speaker 1: who was married to her high school sweetheart. They had

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Speaker 1: a relationship that was volatile. They would fight, they would argue,

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Speaker 1: police were called or rest were sometimes made. They were

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Speaker 1: in and out of jail, they were in off probation,

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Speaker 1: but it was never anything to the felony level. So

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Speaker 1: now we get to the suspects, and I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: go and tell y'all, there's one, not the number one.

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Speaker 1: There ain't but one. Now the entire focus is on

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Speaker 1: her husband. He's the last person to see her alive.

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Speaker 1: He never reported her missing. He never called her family

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Speaker 1: about her whereabouts. He never told the children anything bad

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Speaker 1: that happened to her or where she was. She had

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Speaker 1: no car, no money, no clothes, no cell phone when

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Speaker 1: she supposedly left on her own, never checked with police

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Speaker 1: or hospitals or the more. And he never looked for her.

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Speaker 1: He worked on the same street where the skull was found.

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Speaker 1: He had a pass that was violent, He had a

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Speaker 1: hit and run in a work truck. He moved out

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Speaker 1: of town after she went missing. He seemed to know

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Speaker 1: she wasn't coming back. He did not pick up her

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Speaker 1: remains from the funeral home, and he didn't pay for

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Speaker 1: the funeral. At best, he's gonna be the guy that

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Speaker 1: didn't look for her, didn't bury her, didn't make sure

255
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Speaker 1: the children were okay with what happened to their mom.

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Speaker 1: The worst he is, it's her killer. It is important

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Speaker 1: to note that Christopher Wolfenburger has denied any involvement in

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Speaker 1: Melissa's murder, but Sergeant Leyton from the Atlanta Police Department

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Speaker 1: on Homicide told Dateline that Wolfenburger has an extensive criminal

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Speaker 1: history with family violence. Witnesses also stated during the investigation

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Speaker 1: that he had been abusive to Melissa. Christopher told Dateline,

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Speaker 1: I'm not denying I have a criminal history. We were,

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Speaker 1: you know, like Bonnie and Clyde, just small time criminals.

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Speaker 1: But we didn't do anything bad bad. He further told

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Speaker 1: Dateline that when she never returned home, he figured she

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Speaker 1: changed her identity and went on to live her dream

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Speaker 1: without him in California. Now, Norma, when did you suspect

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Speaker 1: her husband as being the one that murdered her? And

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Speaker 1: what made you think him? As my mother would say,

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Speaker 1: it was the look in his eyes when I met him.

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Speaker 1: You could just see them, the meanness in his eyes.

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Speaker 1: I didn't like him, and it just it went downhill

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Speaker 1: from there. I mean, you never trusted him either. Even

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Speaker 1: in high school, he had Blissa climbing out the bedroom

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Speaker 1: window and sneaking out to go wherever he wanted to go,

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Speaker 1: and I always reported her as a runaway. They run

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Speaker 1: away in December of ninety four and ended up in Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: The police called me and told me that they caught

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00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 1: him driving on the wrong wrong way on the interstate

280
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Speaker 1: during one hundred and twenty miles an hour with no

281
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Speaker 1: lights on. He went off the interstate and hit a bull. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: They lost track of him, but they caught up with him.

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Speaker 1: When they caught up with him, he laughed at him.

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Speaker 1: He said, don't the reason you caught me because I

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Speaker 1: hit that bull. So that that's the way he always

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00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 1: looked at everything, Tina, Did Melissa ever talk to you

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Speaker 1: about her marriage or the problem she was having. She

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00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 1: didn't talk about him. I knew about him, you know,

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00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 1: me and her words at a buff house close to

290
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 1: the airport one time together and at night she came

291
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 1: in one night with a handprint around the throat. Her

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00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: eyes were red. She had been crying and I knew

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Speaker 1: what it was. I knew it was Chris, and I

294
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Speaker 1: asked her about it. She said, don't say anything. And

295
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,959
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, no, no no, no, I'm going

296
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Speaker 1: to say something. And I did, and so did my

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00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: boyfriend at the time. And you know, he reached across

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Speaker 1: and slapped and said something to him, and Christus turned

299
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: his head and looked out the window like it was nothing.

300
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Speaker 1: But he didn't retaliate when it was a man involved.

301
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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about Carl norma with his

302
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: crimes and what happened with Melissa ultimately and Carl found

303
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 1: out that she had been murdered, did that change him

304
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 1: at all? Yeah, I don't know how to put it.

305
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 1: Hits a rest and finding out what happened to Melissa,

306
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 1: it just made him realize what he had done to

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Speaker 1: the families of the people that he had killed. That

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00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: just kind of it knocked him for a loop. For

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Speaker 1: lack of a better way of putting it, he just

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Speaker 1: and feeling that he let Melissa down because he didn't

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Speaker 1: protect her. Well, Carl's done all he can do from

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Speaker 1: behind bars. I have personally written to him for years,

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Speaker 1: and through those letters he has said similar things to

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Speaker 1: me that he had no idea what he had done

315
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Speaker 1: to those families. And the other thing that he talks

316
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Speaker 1: about that I find interesting. He has a moniker and

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00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: he's known as the Flint River Killer, but he hates

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Speaker 1: that and he always says, I'm not a Ted Bundy.

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Speaker 1: To him, he sees a serial killer as somebody that

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Speaker 1: goes out to the same victim over and over and over,

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Speaker 1: and he's very clear that that's not what he did.

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Speaker 1: And Carl has been very clear to me that every

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Speaker 1: single person he killed, he felt like had done something

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Speaker 1: wrong to his family. Would you agree with that? Normal, yes,

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Speaker 1: And he feels like what was done to Melissa was

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00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: just evil and out of just retribution of some sort.

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Speaker 1: I personally have always thought that it was because Chris

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00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: was mad at me because I didn't I didn't want

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Speaker 1: him to get married, and I thought against the relationship

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Speaker 1: as long as I could, and I just he never

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Speaker 1: he would call me right after they got married and

332
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,479
Speaker 1: put Melissa on the phone and tricked me into saying

333
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: something negative. Then he would say, he would say lessa

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Speaker 1: you here what your mama just said. He took it

335
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: out of her right right now, Tina, your dad has

336
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: been clear to me that he never killed an innocent person,

337
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,199
Speaker 1: and that Melissa was an innocent person. That what happened

338
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Speaker 1: to her, she didn't do anything to another person to

339
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: deserve what happened to her. She didn't take anybody's money,

340
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: she didn't harm anybody, She didn't do anything that would

341
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: result in somebody wanting to go after her a new way.

342
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: He's right about that. Melissa was not a person that

343
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: would do something wrong to somebody that somebody would have

344
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: come up and said, oh, well, you know, she stole

345
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: all my money that I had in my house. Someone

346
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: take care of her. She wasn't like that. She was quiet,

347
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: She stayed to herself. She was not a troublemaker. Whatever

348
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: trouble she had gotten to say she met Chris was

349
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: because of Chris. He got her into trouble. And that's

350
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: one thing that seems to be pretty evident with everybody

351
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Speaker 1: that we talked to. She hung out with her husband

352
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: and her children and y'all, and occasionally a co worker

353
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: or two when she had jobs, but she would move

354
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: from job to job, they changed homes. I mean, her

355
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: life was pretty much, you know, in a suitcase a

356
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: lot of the time. So it didn't like she had

357
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: these best friends that she would go hang out with,

358
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: these associates of some sort. She didn't have that in

359
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: her life. In my business, sometimes if you want to

360
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: understand a killer or why somebody would kill, asking a

361
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: killer is a good start. So again, when I communicate

362
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: with your dad, he's very clear about what he thinks happened,

363
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: and he, as a man, says he understands her husband

364
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: and what their relationship was, and that he would always

365
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: take things out on her and that he even approached

366
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: her husband once and was beaten on him a little bit,

367
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: and there was no pushback from him at all. When

368
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: somebody toad a toad met with him, he would almost coward.

369
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: When we went to the scene together and we were

370
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: all there and we went from the crime scene sketch

371
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: exactly where the skull was found. I personally was stunned

372
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: at how close to the front door of action glass

373
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: it was. I mean, I'm not a golfer, and I

374
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: could sink a putt from where the skull was to

375
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: the front door. It seems what Bruce Jordan was able

376
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: to do, it was kind of common sense. It's right

377
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: there normal. Why do you think it took Bruce Jordan

378
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: to connect the dots of who that skull belonged to? Well,

379
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: I don't. I really don't know, to be honest with you.

380
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: But he I guess he just paid more attention to

381
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: what I told him about when listen, he just he

382
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: did what Henry County didn't do and went to Atlanta.

383
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: Henry County, although you know, they had the missing person's

384
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: a report on her, but they never went to Atlanta.

385
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: I think it's a miracle you got them to take

386
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: a report. I mean, she wasn't even in that jurisdiction,

387
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: so I appreciate that at least as a paper trail.

388
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: The report came about because we asked a friend and

389
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: he called somebody the chest At department and asked them

390
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 1: to take a report. So that's how I got the

391
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: report fouled. And I had I had to take the

392
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: letter I had gotten from Melissa and all the cards

393
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: that she had mailed me since her and Chris had

394
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: gotten married, to show them that she stayed in contact

395
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: with me in order to get them to even take

396
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: the report. But again, I think it's amazing that ever

397
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: was even able to happen, and that wouldn't have happened

398
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: without you. I mean, you didn't give up when they

399
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: told you no. You went back they told you no,

400
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: You went to a friend, and then you got it,

401
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, eventually on paper that she was missing from

402
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: a police department. And I think that's extraordinary. You gotta

403
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: have somebody that cares about the person to you know,

404
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: you gotta push. You can't just listen to them say

405
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: no and walk away and say oh well, you gotta push,

406
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: and you have to push hard. And I think that's

407
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: the thing that I want everybody to understand. The first

408
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: time I met Norma, I was standing on the stage

409
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: of a microphone giving a speech, and in my peripheral

410
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: I see this woman walk in. She's wearing shorts and

411
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: a sleeveless like tank top, and she's got a straw

412
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: hat on. But what struck me was she was carrying

413
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: an eight by ten frame picture and I knew. I

414
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: knew immediately that is a mamma of a homicide victim

415
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: or a missing person. So as soon as I got

416
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: off stage, I walked straight toward her, and she looked

417
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: right at me and she said, this is my daughter, Melissa.

418
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: She was beheaded in Atlanta. Will you help me? Well,

419
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: how do you say no to that? And so I

420
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: told her, of course, I will do anything I can

421
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: think of to do. And I said, let's meet at

422
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: my office at the college next week. She said I'll

423
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: be there, so we said a day in time. She

424
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: came to the college, brought the same picture. She sat

425
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: with me right out of the gate. The first thing

426
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: she said, before you help me, there's something I've got

427
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: to tell you. And she told me my husband is

428
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: in jail for murder. And I was on probation because

429
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: I helped him dispose of bodies. Now, I don't know

430
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: about y'all, but that was an unusual start of a

431
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: conversation for me, and I thought a couple of I

432
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: thought a couple of things. I thought, Okay, this might

433
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: be the most honest person I've talked to in a while.

434
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: And second, the sins of the father have nothing to

435
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: do with Melissa. And again, in my business, if you

436
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: have somebody that it's maybe not the most innocent person,

437
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: but then they are also harmed, you have a duty

438
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: to help with that person. So we don't keep a

439
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: score sheet. It's not like I can say, well, you know,

440
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: there's a sex worker and she was raped, but I

441
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: can't really help her because I mean, she's a sex worker,

442
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: she knew the risk. No, absolutely not. You help her

443
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: because whoever harmed her is out there and they may

444
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: be using her as a practice because they think people

445
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: are not going to take it seriously and they're not

446
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: going to help her, and maybe that she won't even

447
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: report it. Just like serial killers go to these same type,

448
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: these unknown people, they work it out on that level.

449
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: So whoever harmed Melissa was able to cut her head

450
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: off and chop her arms and legs off and do

451
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: whatever they did to her. Torso, and I do not

452
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: want that, you know, that person out there pumping gas

453
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: next to my daughter. I don't want them at a

454
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: restaurant where my son is eaten. I don't want them

455
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: anywhere near innocent people. And so I understand again, I understand,

456
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: Carl Patton. I understand what norma did. I get it.

457
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: But I know that Melissa is a separate situation. It's

458
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: the truth, and this person has gotten away with it

459
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: for far too long, all right. So the case, when

460
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: we were out there on scene, we were able to

461
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: meet with assisted districal attorney Adrian Love. I know at

462
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: one point I was standing there and Adrian walked from

463
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: the skull to the woodline, back to where the skull

464
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: was toward action glass, and she turned around and the

465
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: look on her face, and Tina walks up towards me

466
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: and goes, she's mad. And she was mad. She was

467
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: mad that this had gone on as long as it did.

468
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you go from finding a skull

469
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: in April to not finding the rest of the stuff

470
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: till June. Well, that's months that nothing is being done.

471
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: And then the person is misidentified, you lose four years

472
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: of an investigation. But we've got her on board. Now,

473
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: we've got Sergeant Layton on board, we got Investigator Stein

474
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: on board. We've got some serious dream team thing happening.

475
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: So normally we were all at the crime scene together.

476
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: What feeling did you get from Ada Love and Investigator

477
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: Stein and Sergeant Layton. I felt like they were gonna

478
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: actually do something, And they have done a lot. We

479
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: are a lot closer than we've ever been to getting

480
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: him arrested. And it just they always answer my calls.

481
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: They always take the time to sit down and talk

482
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: to me. That's been a long time to get there.

483
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: I always say, you cannot substitute walking the scene, and

484
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: you certainly can't substitute it with walking with family members,

485
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: because you get just this, you know, all encompassed view

486
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: of who this person was, who loved them, you know

487
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: what their life could have been, should have been. While

488
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: you're also simultaneously looking at the area to understand who

489
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: would know this road, who would choose to put her here?

490
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: Your suspect pull shrinks dramatically just because of a Von Avenue,

491
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: and y'all, there's so much about this case, but I

492
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: just want to kind of briefly go over the timeline again.

493
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 1: November the ninth, nineteen ninety eight. Melissa was last seen

494
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: by her mom December of nineteen ninety eight. Her husband

495
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: says that's the last time he saw her, and she

496
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: told him he was, you know, she was going to

497
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: take off and start a new life. And again she

498
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: was going to take off and start a new life

499
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: without her children, without a car, without a cell phone,

500
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: without any money, without any clothes, without any food, without

501
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: any help, without telling her family, without telling her friends, etc.

502
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: Her husband worked from October ninety eight to February ninety

503
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: nine at Action Glass. He has never reported her missing,

504
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: never called her family to look for her, never tries

505
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: to find her, never tries to let her visit with

506
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: their children. He moves out of the house that they

507
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: shared together, moves to a different city way South Georgia,

508
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: and when he did that, he started living under an

509
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: assumed name. So April twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, the

510
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: severed skull is found on Avon Avenue June third, nineteen

511
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: ninety nine. Arms and legs are found in similar trash bags.

512
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: November nineteen ninety nine, her mom reports her formerly missing.

513
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: Detective Bruce Jordan gets involved. The remains in two thousand

514
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: and three are identified as Melissa Wolfenberger. So again law

515
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: enforcement lost four years they could have been investigating a homicide.

516
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen is when I personally got involved. In

517
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Karen Greer with Cside Atlanta got involved. In

518
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, Fannie Willis and Ada Adrian Love got involved.

519
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: And so we are much more confident today than we

520
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: have been. Norma, is there anything else you want to say?

521
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 1: Whatever you want to say, now's your chance. Well, let's

522
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 1: she wouldn't believe her kid. She helped me. She took

523
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: care of me when I had had to have some

524
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: surgery and when I wasn't able to get up and

525
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 1: do for myself, she waited on me handed foot. Melissa

526
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: didn't deserve what she got. She did not deserve you know,

527
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: however she died, she didn't deserve it. Well, I appreciate

528
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: both of you coming on. I know it's not easy

529
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: to talk about I know it's not easy putting your

530
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: personal business and your family business out there, but it's

531
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: necessary for people to understand, not just the victimology, but

532
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: the suspectology in this case. Norma, You've never been anything

533
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: but straight up with me. You've been honest about some

534
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: things that we didn't even cover tonight. But I appreciate

535
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: you always, you know, showing me the entire case file

536
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: that you put together, sharing with me what she thought

537
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: about everybody involved in it. It helped me understand pretty

538
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: quick who the suspect was and how we needed to

539
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: go after him. So I think what you're doing for

540
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: Melissa is unbelievable, and you have been tireless in your

541
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: fight for her, and I appreciate it. Thank you, Cheryl,

542
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: and I certainly appreciate everything that you've done because we

543
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: wouldn't be it's far. We wouldn't have gotten this far

544
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: without you. You had just as much to do with

545
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: all of this, getting us to the right people that

546
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 1: couldn't actually do something. Yess honey, Karen Greer. But Tina,

547
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: I will tell you your personality you crack me up.

548
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes will be somewhere and you know, I think we're

549
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: gonna have a conversation that goes in one direction, and

550
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: you'll all of a sudden take a hard write and

551
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I wasn't expecting that, but she's she's

552
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: telling the truth. And sometimes, you know, I get a

553
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: letter from your dad, and you know, he talks about

554
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: how the two of y'all are very similar in that

555
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: family loyalty, and he says, sometimes two will fall. Tina

556
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: May she'll handle it. But you know, again, I mean,

557
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: this case isn't like any other case that I've ever

558
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: been associated with. I have never worked a case where

559
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: a killer became a crime victim. And like we always

560
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: talk about, we are not done. We're not gonna be

561
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: done until there's an arrest in this case. That's right.

562
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: There's no aspiration date for murder. It's coming. That's right,

563
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 1: it's coming. And y'all, I'm going to end Zone seven

564
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: the way that I always do with a quote from

565
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: somebody from my Zone seven. This comes from former prosecutor

566
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: Christopher Darden. He's still guilty twenty five years later. The

567
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: truth always comes to light, and I know that's true

568
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: in Melissa's case. The white hats are coming. I'm Cheryl McCollum,

569
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: and this is Zone seven. In the next episode, you're

570
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: going to hear from an icon in Atlanta. The legendary

571
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: TV anchor Karen Greer, who has covered Melissa's case for

572
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: twenty years,