1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,360
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,479
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern.

3
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,360
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg

4
00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:10,200
Speaker 2: Business app.

5
00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,960
Speaker 1: Or listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

6
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,640
Speaker 3: Welcome to Bloomberg Sound On. We're live from Washington here

7
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,639
Speaker 3: as President Biden expresses new confidence, renewed confidence, and a

8
00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,120
Speaker 3: deal to avoid a default as he prepares to fly

9
00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,040
Speaker 3: to Japan for the G seven later today.

10
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,640
Speaker 4: Confident debt will get the agreement on the budget, America

11
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:31,479
Speaker 4: will not.

12
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 3: Default, spoke earlier from the White House. You heard it

13
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,040
Speaker 3: live on Bloomberg, delineating this is important between the two

14
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,360
Speaker 3: separate matters at hand, even though they become one when

15
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 3: you squinch your eyes a little bit, raising the debt

16
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,240
Speaker 3: ceiling and separately coming to terms on a budget spending

17
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:49,159
Speaker 3: levels for next year.

18
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,839
Speaker 4: To be clear, this negotiation is about the outlines of

19
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,600
Speaker 4: what the budget will look like, not about whether or

20
00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 4: not we're going to infect para debts leaders who all

21
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,840
Speaker 4: agree we will not defall every leader has said that.

22
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,320
Speaker 3: Meantime, Speaker McCarthy also projecting some optimism. He appeared with

23
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,120
Speaker 3: members of the Republican Caucus. They stood on the House steps,

24
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,640
Speaker 3: also pointing a finger still to the other end of

25
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:15,520
Speaker 3: Pennsylvania Avenue.

26
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,400
Speaker 5: I'm optimistic for America because the people standing behind me.

27
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 5: I'm optimistic of our ability to work together. Do we

28
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 5: have obstacles, Yes, we have a big obstacle in the

29
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 5: White House, But we're going to change the course of

30
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 5: history because we're going to stand for the American.

31
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 3: Public, referring to the president as an obstacle. Adding an

32
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 3: input now from Jamie Diamond. As you probably heard on Bloomberg,

33
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,760
Speaker 3: the CEO of JP Morgan Chase on Capitol Hill today

34
00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 3: along with City CEO Jane Fraser and other top executives

35
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,200
Speaker 3: of the major banks. Yeah, they came knocking on Majority

36
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 3: Leader Chuck Schumer's door today to find out what the

37
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,800
Speaker 3: heck's going on around here. Very few words on the

38
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,440
Speaker 3: way out, Jamie Diamond saying the government probably will not

39
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 3: default on its debts. Let's bring in Congressman Dan Kildey

40
00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,560
Speaker 3: for more on This Democrat from Michigan serves on the

41
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,960
Speaker 3: House Ways and Means Committee, and it's been a while. Congressman,

42
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 3: welcome back to Bloomberg.

43
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,200
Speaker 6: Thank you, Joe. It's good to be back.

44
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 3: Well, it's a pleasure to have you back in the mix.

45
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,720
Speaker 3: We've missed you a little bit and we want to

46
00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 3: welcome you back following your recovery, just in time for

47
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,960
Speaker 3: quite the bout here. President Biden just spoke to the nation.

48
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,240
Speaker 3: He says he's confident that there will be a deal.

49
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,960
Speaker 3: He's confident we will not defaults with as little as

50
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,920
Speaker 3: two weeks to the X day. Congressman, do you share

51
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 3: his optimism.

52
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, we have to be optimistic. I was

53
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,800
Speaker 6: somewhat pleased to hear that even Speaker McCarthy indicated that

54
00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,519
Speaker 6: we won't default. Now that doesn't mean that he's moved

55
00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,359
Speaker 6: toward a more reasonable position. But if the President and

56
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,680
Speaker 6: the Speaker are both taking the view that we will

57
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,639
Speaker 6: not default, that reinforces the urgency of getting a deal done,

58
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,520
Speaker 6: and I think increases the likelihood that we will. But

59
00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:49,840
Speaker 6: you know, the details are tough, and we're going to

60
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,400
Speaker 6: have to really work hard any negotiations to get to

61
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 6: an agreement that will be a compromise. That's what we

62
00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:57,359
Speaker 6: have to do.

63
00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 3: The Speaker seems to think more than ever that his

64
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,079
Speaker 3: position is quite reasonable, as the President now engages him

65
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 3: in these talks. Where is he off track in your view?

66
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,799
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, it's not reasonable to threaten default

67
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,239
Speaker 6: to basically turn the United States into a deadbeat nation

68
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,359
Speaker 6: in order to get policy goals achieved that they can't

69
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 6: get through the normal legislative process. That's not reasonable. That's

70
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,800
Speaker 6: not the position Democrats took when Donald Trump was president

71
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,080
Speaker 6: and he increased the debt limit necessarily three times during

72
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 6: that period.

73
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:31,880
Speaker 3: Do you not take it out his word when he

74
00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 3: says that he does not want the nation to default, Well.

75
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,280
Speaker 6: If he doesn't want it to default, then he shouldn't

76
00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,480
Speaker 6: use that as a threat if he can't get his

77
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,040
Speaker 6: own way on budget issues. You know this oldest rule

78
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,800
Speaker 6: in the book, it's don't threaten something that you're not

79
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,680
Speaker 6: willing to do. By threatening to default, what he's saying

80
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,240
Speaker 6: is he's willing to take us there. He's willing to

81
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,560
Speaker 6: push the American economy into recession, cost hundreds of thousands

82
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,920
Speaker 6: of jobs, maybe millions of I think it's also interesting

83
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 6: that the Republican plan to deal with this issue also

84
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 6: takes us closer to recession, also results in the loss

85
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 6: of jobs. So I don't think his positions reasonable. I

86
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 6: do think it's a better position that he's articulated that

87
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 6: we won't default. But there's a long distance between saying

88
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 6: they won't do it, but then, on the other hand,

89
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 6: continuing to threaten to do it in order to get

90
00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 6: what they can't get through the appropriations prosisle they.

91
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,520
Speaker 3: Sit in the White House driveway last night. Look, we're

92
00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,279
Speaker 3: the only ones who passed a bill that raises the

93
00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,880
Speaker 3: debt ceilings, so we're not the ones pressing for default.

94
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:34,760
Speaker 3: How do you respond to.

95
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,520
Speaker 6: That, Well, it was a plan for default they passed.

96
00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 6: I mean, it was their structured plan for default. So

97
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:43,560
Speaker 6: I think it's a bit of a red herring for

98
00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 6: him to say that they passed a plan to raise

99
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,599
Speaker 6: the debt ceiling. What they did was loaded up a

100
00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,039
Speaker 6: bunch of policy priorities from the most extreme members of

101
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,719
Speaker 6: Congress that Speaker McCarthy promised he would do in order

102
00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,799
Speaker 6: to gain their votes when he was running for speaker,

103
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,720
Speaker 6: And that was not a serious proposal. No economist thinks

104
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,039
Speaker 6: of it as a serious proposal. It would have taken

105
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,520
Speaker 6: the American economy into recession. So you know, I think

106
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,320
Speaker 6: those are good words. Those are It's a nice rhetorical response,

107
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,800
Speaker 6: but not a real response to the problem with fame.

108
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:19,840
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the nuts and bolts here a little bit.

109
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,000
Speaker 3: It appears to be coming down to a few specifics,

110
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 3: and I don't mean to oversimplify, but assuming everybody agrees

111
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 3: on clawing back unspent COVID funds, that appears to be

112
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,839
Speaker 3: where we are. We're looking at identifying budget caps, which

113
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,880
Speaker 3: could take some time, and work requirements. I wonder where

114
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,240
Speaker 3: you are on the ladder, as this has been something

115
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,040
Speaker 3: very specific that they're chewing on here, and President Biden,

116
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 3: we're told at least, and based on what we're hearing

117
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 3: from the Progressive Caucus, runs the risk of losing some

118
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,440
Speaker 3: Progressive votes on this. If additional work requirements are put

119
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,320
Speaker 3: in place for food stamps, for instance, where do you

120
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:51,760
Speaker 3: fall on that?

121
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I agree with the President on this issue.

122
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 6: He has supported and some of us have as well,

123
00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,359
Speaker 6: reasonable requirements for work. But to add additional birds the

124
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,520
Speaker 6: people who are on the absolute fringe of the American economy,

125
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,839
Speaker 6: who are fighting to hold on just to keep food

126
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 6: on the table, and meanwhile leave the wealthiest corporations in

127
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,960
Speaker 6: this country able to walk away without paying a single

128
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,599
Speaker 6: penny of tax. Is I think a wrong statement of priorities.

129
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,360
Speaker 6: So I think that one is very difficult for many

130
00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 6: of us to accept. But the other aspects that are

131
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,560
Speaker 6: being proposed, I don't like them. I don't like clawing

132
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 6: back some of the COVID funding. But if there's a

133
00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 6: reasonable accommodation, if there's a reasonable compromise, I am in

134
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,039
Speaker 6: a position where I have to sometimes vote for things

135
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,120
Speaker 6: that aren't going to include everything I want, but I'll

136
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,040
Speaker 6: support it in order to prevent the American economy from collapsing.

137
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,480
Speaker 6: That's one of the results of being in divided government.

138
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 6: So I think, you know, without negotiating in public, I'm

139
00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,919
Speaker 6: willing to accept some things that I don't like in

140
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,719
Speaker 6: order to prevent catastrophe. And I just hope that Speaker

141
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,680
Speaker 6: McCarthy is willing to do the same. I haven't seen

142
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,280
Speaker 6: the kind of signals that he's willing to do that

143
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,840
Speaker 6: that I would like to see. I also haven't seen

144
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 6: him do something that's an important aspect of leadership, and

145
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 6: that is to tell some of the supporters no, tell

146
00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,200
Speaker 6: some of the most extreme voices that surround him no.

147
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,840
Speaker 6: That is a tough thing to do, but every person

148
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 6: whoever exercises leadership learns that lesson sooner or later, and

149
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 6: I hope for the sake of the country, it's a

150
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,400
Speaker 6: lesson that's speaker McCarthy learns pretty quick.

151
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 3: Sounds like maybe you ought to be in the room

152
00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 3: here as we look at identifying budget caps. How do

153
00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,160
Speaker 3: you do that, Congressman, when you take so much off

154
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,000
Speaker 3: the table. I realized that Social Security, Medicare, even the

155
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,520
Speaker 3: Pentagon now, which might need an increase, are all off

156
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,600
Speaker 3: the table. So we're chewing over a very small piece

157
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 3: of the pie here, aren't we.

158
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,440
Speaker 6: It makes it very tough. And you know, the issue

159
00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,680
Speaker 6: there for me is I'm willing to have a conversation

160
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 6: about reasonable budget targets. What I'm not willing to do

161
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,400
Speaker 6: is go back to two thousand eleven and institute these

162
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 6: sort of automatic recisions. The sequestration is what it was

163
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 6: referred to as. I think that proved to be a folly.

164
00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,720
Speaker 6: It was bad economic policy. Might yeah, and so I

165
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,920
Speaker 6: don't want to go there. But look, if you know,

166
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 6: the Republicans are in the majority in the House of Representatives,

167
00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,880
Speaker 6: that'll be the case until January of twenty twenty five.

168
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,600
Speaker 6: They have the authority to pass budget bills spending bills.

169
00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,600
Speaker 6: My view on this is, let's not make this a

170
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 6: question as to whether or not the American government the

171
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 6: American people default on their promises to pay our debtors, predators.

172
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 6: Let's let them produce their appropriations bills and then go

173
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,400
Speaker 6: through that process. What it seems to me that the

174
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,480
Speaker 6: Speaker's trying to do is find democratic cover for the

175
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,559
Speaker 6: draconian cuts they want to make to veterans healthcare, to

176
00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,960
Speaker 6: other basic funding priorities that we all think are pretty important.

177
00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:58,720
Speaker 6: If they want to do that, they can do it

178
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,280
Speaker 6: with Republican votes right now. They don't need us to

179
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:01,600
Speaker 6: do it.

180
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,079
Speaker 3: Macarthury called the President a liar when he mentioned veterans'

181
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:05,600
Speaker 3: care cuts.

182
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:07,640
Speaker 6: Well, look at all you have to do is look

183
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,960
Speaker 6: at what they passed and what it will do. You know,

184
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,319
Speaker 6: this is one of those cases where people can have

185
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 6: their opinions that facts are facts, and we just look

186
00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 6: at what the Republicans passed. If it became law, that

187
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 6: would be the effect you.

188
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,840
Speaker 3: Serve on the Ways it means Committee, the Tax Writing Committee,

189
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,040
Speaker 3: Are you concerned that we're not talking about revenues, that

190
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,160
Speaker 3: we're only talking about spending cuts when it comes to

191
00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,040
Speaker 3: eliminating debt in this country.

192
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,240
Speaker 6: Absolutely, especially when we look at how distorted the tax

193
00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 6: code is. You know, if the tax code were fair,

194
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,559
Speaker 6: in other words, if every American individual and corporation paid

195
00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,719
Speaker 6: their fair share, and then it would only be a

196
00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,440
Speaker 6: question about, well, how much revenue do we need. The

197
00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 6: issue that we face right now is do we have

198
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 6: the Republicans promoting cuts that would affect the most at

199
00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:01,079
Speaker 6: risk Americans and meanwhile leaving a tax structure place that

200
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:06,840
Speaker 6: continues to subsidize big oil companies, subsidized big pharma, allow

201
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,160
Speaker 6: certain corporations, some of the biggest and wealthiest corporations, most

202
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,839
Speaker 6: profitable corporations on the planet, to walk away without paying

203
00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:19,480
Speaker 6: anything for the cost associated with providing essential public services

204
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 6: to the American people. You know, the idea that they

205
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,120
Speaker 6: would just simply skip past the Ways and Means Committee,

206
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,720
Speaker 6: I think is irresponsible and it's a reflection of their priorities.

207
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 6: Doesn't mean they're bad people. I just think their priorities

208
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 6: are wrong.

209
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 3: Well, I keep asking about regular order. I thought we

210
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,320
Speaker 3: were going to get back to it at some point here.

211
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,960
Speaker 3: But maybe you and I can talk about that on

212
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 3: another day. I just with regard to the debt, ceiling. Specifically,

213
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 3: what duration should we be looking for, never mind the

214
00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,080
Speaker 3: amount of money right now? Do you want to see

215
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,840
Speaker 3: a two year extension? And if that's the case, does

216
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,000
Speaker 3: that impact the budget caps because the Speaker says, the

217
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,800
Speaker 3: longer you lift the debts, the more cuts we need.

218
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,800
Speaker 3: And the last thing I suspect that Democrats want is

219
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,800
Speaker 3: this to land right in the middle of a presidential

220
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:08,560
Speaker 3: election season.

221
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that would be a huge mistake. So

222
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,000
Speaker 6: for me, minimally, anything we do on the debt ceiling

223
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,880
Speaker 6: should be to a date more than likely the to

224
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,680
Speaker 6: a number. In other words, suspend the debt ceiling until

225
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,600
Speaker 6: after the presidential election. The idea that we would create

226
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 6: some sort of a fiscal time bomb in the middle

227
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:34,600
Speaker 6: of a presidential election is that's just public policy mail practice,

228
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,840
Speaker 6: and I think the Republicans got to take a pause

229
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 6: before they pursue that kind of an approach. What I

230
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,720
Speaker 6: worry about is that there are some and I don't

231
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 6: accuse the Speaker of this, but there are some of

232
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 6: the more extreme voices that I think would like to

233
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,600
Speaker 6: see the economy explode because they think it's bad for

234
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,960
Speaker 6: Joe Biden and bad for Democrats. So the idea that

235
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 6: they would sort of plant a time bomb in the

236
00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,640
Speaker 6: economy that would go off in the middle of a

237
00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,760
Speaker 6: president mental election, I think is a pretty cynical use

238
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,839
Speaker 6: of public power toward a political goal, and I really

239
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,680
Speaker 6: hope that that's not the direction that they take.

240
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,120
Speaker 3: Are we still worried about a credit downgrade? Even with

241
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,640
Speaker 3: the apparent progress that's been made in the past twenty

242
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,040
Speaker 3: four to forty eight hours.

243
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 6: If we default, we should certainly, even if we take

244
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:21,880
Speaker 6: it to the brink of the fall.

245
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,720
Speaker 3: But yeah, in advance of the X date, is that

246
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,400
Speaker 3: is that a real possibility?

247
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,680
Speaker 6: That's a good question. I don't know. I haven't talked

248
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,680
Speaker 6: to anybody in the boundary and in the credit rating world.

249
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 3: In the last it's about two weeks before the X

250
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,400
Speaker 3: date in twenty eleven, so a lot of us are asking, Yeah,

251
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:36,160
Speaker 3: it's a good question.

252
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 6: And what I don't want to do is make a

253
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,800
Speaker 6: comment that might affect even some of those conversations. But

254
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 6: I will say this, we are at risk of not

255
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,600
Speaker 6: just a downgrade, but a recession if we get too

256
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 6: close to this. And I think given the fact that

257
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,280
Speaker 6: we've had decent economic performance, we still have to deal

258
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,960
Speaker 6: with complation coming down. We've had decent economic performance coming

259
00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:58,840
Speaker 6: out of the pandemic.

260
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 3: We shouldn't put that at if this interview results in

261
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,439
Speaker 3: a credit downgrade. Congressman, I promise I'll never call you again, exactly.

262
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,200
Speaker 3: It's a pleasure to hear your voice. I want to

263
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,560
Speaker 3: say congratulations again on your recovery. Congressman Dan Kilde, many

264
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:14,840
Speaker 3: thanks for being with us on Bloomberg.

265
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 6: Thank you, I really appreciate it.

266
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,080
Speaker 3: He's back from cancer surgery with us here in the Capitol.

267
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,800
Speaker 3: I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. Glad you joined us for

268
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,160
Speaker 3: this conversation the day after the big meeting as we

269
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,040
Speaker 3: try to figure out what's going on here. I mentioned

270
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,439
Speaker 3: earlier Jamie Diamond on Capitol Hill today. You know it's

271
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,560
Speaker 3: serious when Jamie Diamond and Jane Fraser show up at

272
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,720
Speaker 3: your door. They went to see Majority Leader Chuck Schumer,

273
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,360
Speaker 3: who said he had a direct request of the bank's CEOs.

274
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 3: He asked them to make sure to tell everybody that

275
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,960
Speaker 3: default should not be an option, and on the way out,

276
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,320
Speaker 3: very brief remarks from Jamie Diamond, he wasn't there to

277
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,600
Speaker 3: talk to reporters today, said the US government probably will

278
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,680
Speaker 3: not default on its debts and that the bank is ready.

279
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,280
Speaker 1: Everyone wants a strong financial system. Whatever it is, we

280
00:13:58,320 --> 00:13:59,240
Speaker 1: will be prepared well.

281
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,240
Speaker 3: Assemble our panel next. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano on

282
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,160
Speaker 3: the Way and Bloomberg Politics contributors.

283
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

284
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,680
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

285
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,080
Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

286
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

287
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:28,960
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

288
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,800
Speaker 3: Some important elections to track on a primary day in

289
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,520
Speaker 3: the middle of nowhere that would have been yesterday. If

290
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 3: you weren't voting, you probably didn't even know about these.

291
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 3: But some important stories coming out of last night that

292
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 3: we'll discuss with our panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano.

293
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,040
Speaker 3: We'll starting Kentucky. We had eyes on this when it

294
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 3: turned out to be a big win for Trump backed

295
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,000
Speaker 3: state Attorney General Daniel Cameron and winning the Republican primary

296
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 3: for Kentucky governor. He beat a candidate endorsed by Florida

297
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 3: Governor Ron De Santis. By a wide margin two to

298
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 3: become the first major party black nominee for governor in

299
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 3: the state's history.

300
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,240
Speaker 7: The Trump culture of winning is alive and well in Kentucky.

301
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 3: There it is so much for the culture of losing

302
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 3: that Ronda Santis has talked about sets up in November

303
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:21,440
Speaker 3: showdown with Democratic incumbent Andy Bisheer. Meanwhile, in Jacksonville, the

304
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 3: city in Florida making history by electing its first female mayor,

305
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 3: Democrat Donna Deagan, flipping the seat after beating Republican Daniel Davis,

306
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,880
Speaker 3: who was backed by Yes. Ronda Santis, the mayor elects,

307
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,160
Speaker 3: speaking after a concession call from David, he had.

308
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,520
Speaker 5: The most beautiful mosaic of a city that you've ever

309
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 5: seen in your entire life.

310
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,240
Speaker 8: And everybody's going to have a voice in a Donna

311
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:42,200
Speaker 8: Deagan administration.

312
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, Donna Deagan administration. So you can call this two

313
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 3: wins for Trump by way of two losses for Ronda Santis.

314
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 3: Let's hear about it from the panel, because of course

315
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,800
Speaker 3: we're always looking at these with twenty twenty four in mind.

316
00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:01,080
Speaker 3: What's your take on this, Rick, Ronda Santis suffering two losses,

317
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 3: including in Jacksonville.

318
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, I actually think that Jacksonville loss is the one

319
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,600
Speaker 9: to focus on. You know, it's it's a load of base.

320
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 9: You know, he won Duval County, where Jacksonville is located,

321
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 9: by twelve points. Twelve points, I mean, that's a slaughter,

322
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,960
Speaker 9: and he could not turn that into a victory for

323
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 9: his chosen mayor candidate. And that is that shows a

324
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 9: sign of weakness in Florida that otherwise I would wouldn't

325
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 9: have thought he had. And of course this gives people

326
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 9: like Donald Trump, who you know has his own eyes

327
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 9: on Florida in a presidential primary, some reason to believe

328
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 9: that maybe some of that popularity that that DeSantis has

329
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,880
Speaker 9: had at re election last November has starting to peel

330
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:42,560
Speaker 9: away a little bit.

331
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 3: What do you make of this one, especially this race

332
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 3: in Kentucky as well, Genie that it could be history

333
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:54,480
Speaker 3: making unclear if he can actually beat Democratic incumbent Governor Vasher.

334
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 1: What's your take?

335
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, you know, you look, and Donald Trump

336
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 8: has been trolling this, you know, since these races were

337
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 8: both called, and of course, you know, calling a victory

338
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 8: for both these losses that he had. But you know

339
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 8: the reality is what Donald Trump is not talking about

340
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 8: is that in Kentucky in particular, the election deniers on

341
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 8: the ballot did not have a good night. And so

342
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,159
Speaker 8: I think this cuts both ways as you look at it,

343
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,439
Speaker 8: if you look at it objectively. And I do agree

344
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 8: with Rick that the Jacksonville is a particular loss for DeSantis,

345
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 8: but you know, it wasn't too hard for Trump to

346
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,159
Speaker 8: support Cameron. I think the Craft loss was, you know,

347
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 8: the fact she came in third place and she poured

348
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,359
Speaker 8: something like nine point three million dollars into this race

349
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,199
Speaker 8: is a you know, a substantial loss. But she was

350
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,159
Speaker 8: being hit very, very hard for being ultra rich and

351
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,159
Speaker 8: all of these things by Cameron's pack, and he was

352
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 8: in first place all along. So I think it cuts

353
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 8: both ways as it pertains to Trump. But I think

354
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,879
Speaker 8: once again it sets up it's gonna be a tough

355
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 8: fight for both of them as they move forward. And

356
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,639
Speaker 8: let's not forget Andy Basheer remains a very popular governor

357
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 8: in a red state, a Democrat in a red state

358
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 8: that Trump won by twenty six points. So it's a

359
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 8: pretty you know, amazing when you look at what Basher

360
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 8: has been able to do there.

361
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 3: Donald Trump on truth Social I put Genie's login back

362
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,160
Speaker 3: in congratulations to a star in Kentucky, Daniel Cameron, who

363
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 3: easily won the Republican nomination for governor. Trump goes on

364
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,159
Speaker 3: to write, he had my complete and total endorsement. The

365
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:34,000
Speaker 3: dysanctimonious back candidate came in a distant third. Ron's magic

366
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 3: is gone, he writes with an exclamation point. He also

367
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:43,120
Speaker 3: lost shockingly in Jacksonville last night, Mayor. Who's listening to that?

368
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,200
Speaker 3: In DeSantis' circle, Rick.

369
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 9: All the Santa strategists are sitting around thinking, well, maybe

370
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,400
Speaker 9: we shouldn't have endorsed Craft at the last minute. You know,

371
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,159
Speaker 9: they're trying to act like a national candidate, national campaign,

372
00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 9: but they just don't seem to be ahead of the curve, right.

373
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,680
Speaker 9: They seem coming in late on everything. And then you know,

374
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,120
Speaker 9: they've had these other skirmishes where the pack put out

375
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 9: a very negative tweet on Donald Trump after the CNN

376
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 9: activity and then pulled it down because they thought, oh,

377
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 9: we overreached on their attacks against Donald Trump. So it

378
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 9: just doesn't seem like that they are prepared to wage

379
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,679
Speaker 9: war with Donald Trump. But Donald Trump is having the

380
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 9: time of his life waging war on Ron de Santis.

381
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 3: Boy, that's something to consider as we had for what

382
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,359
Speaker 3: we expect to be an announcement in a couple of weeks. Here,

383
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 3: you're both still convinced he's running, right, Rick, you say, yes,

384
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 3: that's coming the next couple of weeks.

385
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, he's all in. He's been lining up all these

386
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 9: donors for quite some time. He's got the ambition in

387
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,199
Speaker 9: his gut, and it's just a matter of orchestration. But

388
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 9: it will be interesting to see how he treats Donald

389
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 9: Trump at the time of his announcement.

390
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 3: Gen Pennsylvania Democrats will maintain control in the House. Heather

391
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 3: Boyd a Democrat rejected winner in a special election that

392
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 3: took place as well yesterday for a vacant seat in

393
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 3: the Philadelphia suburbs one hundred and sixty third district. Once

394
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 3: Republican before flipping in recent elections here, she held an

395
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 3: election night rally Drexel Hill and was asked about the

396
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 3: pressure of winning this race.

397
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 7: Honestly, I tried not to think about the larger picture

398
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 7: all the time and just try to focus on the

399
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,400
Speaker 7: voters in the one hundred and sixty third.

400
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 3: Is this something that we can read into As President

401
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 3: Biden continues to return to Pennsylvania to deliver his messaging

402
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 3: here and we try to understand where the state might

403
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 3: lean in twenty four.

404
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 8: Absolutely, and it was a very good night for Democrats

405
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 8: that they held that. I think it was also a

406
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 8: good night, we should say for Democrats that they had

407
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 8: a more moderate traditional if you will, Democrat win the

408
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 8: first female in the Philadelphia mayoral race. Not a great

409
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 8: night for progressives, but probably better for centrist Democrats there.

410
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 8: And I think it is important for the White House

411
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 8: because of course the Pennsylvania Legislature will have a big

412
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 8: impact on how their delegates are handled in the next

413
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 8: round of the presidential election. And also, I should say,

414
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 8: because abortion played really big into these races, and you

415
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 8: couple that with what happened in North Carolina, and you

416
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 8: know that abortion is going to play wide and it's

417
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 8: something that Trump and DeSantis are struggling with. How can

418
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,199
Speaker 8: you win suburban women and so many constituencies if you

419
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 8: continue to have this really stringent view on abortion. Big

420
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 8: problem for Republicans going forward.

421
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 3: I guess that's going to be a continuing theme. Does

422
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,679
Speaker 3: Joe Biden have anything to learn from last night?

423
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 1: Rick?

424
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that the Democratic parties alive and well

425
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 9: in these areas. I mean, you know, look, they win

426
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 9: this Pennsylvania legislative district and it gets them control of

427
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 9: the state legislature. That's a big deal. That's a closely

428
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 9: watched race. And I think that the fact that moderates,

429
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 9: as Genie said, did well maybe brings him back more

430
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 9: to the center where he was when he ran for election.

431
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 9: The first time.

432
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

433
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern.

434
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg

435
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 2: Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

436
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 3: Joe, Matthew and Washington alongside Kaylee Lines and boy, we've

437
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 3: got a lot to figure out still. Kayley's just back

438
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 3: from the hill. They're starting to get really used to

439
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 3: you up there. And it wasn't just banking hearings today,

440
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,239
Speaker 3: you're chasing Jamie Diamond among other people. I think this

441
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 3: is really important. Actually, we've got the big bank CEOs,

442
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 3: the big money center banks. Diamond Fraser was up there

443
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 3: in Chuck Schumer's office. Is that the equivalent of a

444
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 3: big letter going off to lawmakers urging them to avoid

445
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 3: a default what was the message.

446
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 10: Well, it's a good question because we know what Schumer

447
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 10: wants these banks to go out there and say. He

448
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 10: said he wanted them to spread the message that defaults

449
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 10: should not be an option. We have to say, though,

450
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 10: when I wait for them, Oh, I mean weak hand, Joe.

451
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 10: I would just like to clarify and say, I have

452
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 10: never claimed to be an athlete. I was running a

453
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 10: not great athletic shoe wear and I was trying to

454
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 10: chase the head of JP Morgan down the Capitol steps. Yes,

455
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 10: so you can imagine this scene.

456
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 3: You can even see the video, Well we kind of

457
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 3: some of it on the terminal. All that Kaylee running

458
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 3: a football length to get to this man. Imagine the

459
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: camera guy Nick, He's running with his heavy camra. Are

460
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 3: they finally got to him? Jamie Dimond your thoughts.

461
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: Everyone wants a strong financial system.

462
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 4: Whatever it is, we would be prepared.

463
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, a few words today. Did he not like

464
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: what he heard from Chuck Schumer? What are we thinking?

465
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 10: Well, I don't know. I asked him, can you tell

466
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 10: us anything about the conversation you had with the Majority leader?

467
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 10: And he said, no, no, I'm not going to do that.

468
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 10: Thank you. So whether that is just you know, keeping

469
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 10: it close to the chest, not trying to advertise widely

470
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 10: the private conversations you were having in a closed meeting

471
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 10: in the Senate. May I think we'll have to see

472
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 10: what the messaging is from these banks going forward. That said, Joe,

473
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 10: I will say that Jamie Diamond has in recent weeks

474
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 10: come on Bloomberg to talk about how bad a default

475
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 10: would be. Other banks have warned about this as well,

476
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 10: so it's not that they're not already on the record

477
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 10: warning about the potential consequences. We'll see what they hear

478
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 10: from him today. Hopefully others can get more out of

479
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 10: him than a.

480
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 3: Well, yes, exactly. We spent time last hour with Dan Kildey,

481
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 3: the congressman, Democrat from Michigan, and we're going to talk

482
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 3: coming up with Congressman Mike Gallagher, Republican from Wisconsin, to

483
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 3: try to get both sides of this issue, because we're

484
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 3: we're creeping up on a deal here. We heard from

485
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 3: Joe Biden before he prepared to leave for his trip

486
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 3: to Japan earlier, and he's expressing confidence. I suggested earlier

487
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: using the Jedi mind trick, We're just gonna go ahead.

488
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 4: With confident that we'll get the agreement on the budget.

489
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 4: America will not default, not.

490
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,479
Speaker 3: The droids you're looking for. Yeah, Speaker McCarthy slightly different

491
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 3: angle today's. He says, I'm optimistic, but the problem is

492
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 3: over there on the other end of Pennsylvania.

493
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 5: AB I'm optimistic for America because the people standing behind me.

494
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 5: I'm optimistic of our ability to work together. Do we

495
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 5: have obstacles, Yes, we have a big obstacle in the

496
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 5: White House, but we're going to change the course of

497
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 5: history because we're going to stand for the American public.

498
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 3: Okay, suggesting there will be a deal in time and interesting,

499
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 3: President Biden scheduled a news conference for Sunday when he

500
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 3: gets back. M hm, who's working on Sunday?

501
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 10: By the way, well you might let's draw straws on

502
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 10: that one, Joe, see who has to show up. But yeah,

503
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 10: we'll have to see because remember, by Sunday, we're going

504
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 10: to be eleven days out from June first, which is

505
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 10: when the Treasury has said it could be as early

506
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 10: as that date, yes, that they cannot pay the US's bills.

507
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 10: So it just kind of goes to show you the

508
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 10: urgency of these talks. What I thought was interesting in

509
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 10: the President's remarks before his departure was when he was

510
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 10: talking about work requirements for entitlements, and he did specifically

511
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 10: say he doesn't want them tied to any health benefits.

512
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 10: That isn't necessarily a red line though on the whole thing,

513
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 10: and as I've spoken with multiple Democrats in recent days,

514
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 10: it seems like it is a red line for them

515
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 10: any stricter requirements whatsoever. When I spoke with Congressman Jerry Nadler,

516
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 10: a Democrat from New York, earlier today, he said he

517
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 10: wouldn't vote for it.

518
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 4: I don't think that's going to be that particular thing

519
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 4: is compromisable.

520
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 3: Not compromisable.

521
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 10: Yes.

522
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 3: Dan Kilde on the other hand, said, yeah, I agree

523
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 3: with Joe Biden on this one. Yeah, And he does

524
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 3: not think that it should extend to healthcare. We've been

525
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 3: I think that, you know, we've heard that from a

526
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: lot of folks here, but sounding very different than Jerry Nadler,

527
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 3: And it's clear that there's going to be a split

528
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 3: here when it comes to aggressive in the Democratic Party.

529
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, and so it really just becomes a matter then

530
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 10: of counting the votes. Can you get enough people in

531
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 10: line on board with whatever compromise it is that they

532
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 10: reach that you can actually get this thing through Congress.

533
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 3: Looks like the gentleman from Wisconsin is with us. Been

534
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 3: looking forward to talking again with Mike Gallagher, Republican Congressman

535
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 3: who happens to chair the House Committee on Competition with

536
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: the Chinese Communist Party, the Select China Committee as we

537
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 3: call it, for short, Representative. Is great to have you back.

538
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: Thank you, and we'd love to talk about your hearing

539
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 3: that's coming up tonight. Just first your take though. Last

540
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: time we were talking about work requirements, for instance, and

541
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: it does seem that that's going to be kind of

542
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: where the action is here as we make a deal

543
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 3: moderate Democrats, if I can use the word moderate. I

544
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 3: hate characterizing anyone's position on the spectrum here, but Mike

545
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 3: dan Kilde rather a congressman, says that he's okay with

546
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 3: work requirements on food stamps. Is that going to be

547
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 3: codified in this agreement?

548
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 6: I hope so.

549
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 11: I mean, because we're talking about work requirements for able

550
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 11: body of adults, I mean that to me should be

551
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 11: without children, without children, right. Yes, We've made all these

552
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 11: carve outs, which I think are sensible car votes. I

553
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 11: think it's really hard to argue against it, and it

554
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 11: is amazing to me how far we've strayed from what

555
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 11: used to be the bipartisan contentence on this issue, which

556
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 11: I would note started in Wisconsin, which is usually the

557
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 11: epicenter and the birthplace of common sense with welfare reform

558
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 11: we did in the mid nineties, and then it sort

559
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 11: of migrated to the federal level, but we've consistently seen

560
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 11: an erosion that bipartisan position. So I think it's a

561
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 11: sensible framework. I'm glad some of the remaining blue dog

562
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 11: Democrats are willing to be the voice of reason on this,

563
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 11: and we got to get a deal, and so I

564
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 11: think this is a sensible part of the framework that's emerging,

565
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 11: and I hope cooler has prevailed here.

566
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 10: It does seem, though, that really this is an area

567
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 10: of sticking points. It seems that there does seem to

568
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 10: be consensus on both sides, that there could be some

569
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 10: wiggle room on spending caps, on permitting reform, on cling

570
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 10: back of unspent COVID funds. This issue, though, feels like

571
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 10: it's harder. Is this going to be a maker or

572
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 10: a breaker? Do you think Congressman well, I.

573
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 11: Think it's an issue that republic in the House want

574
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 11: to hold firm on. There's you know, unanimity in our

575
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 11: conference on the issue, and I think we sense that

576
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 11: we are on the side of the majority of the

577
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 11: American people, the overwhelming majority of sixty five to seventy percent.

578
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 11: So I think this will be part of the final deal,

579
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 11: and I think the Democrats are going to deal. Just

580
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 11: the pressure for the American people to come along with it.

581
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 10: If the deal that McCarthy ultimately comes to with President

582
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 10: Biden does not include stricter work requirements, would you vote

583
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 10: for it.

584
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 11: I'm not saying anything in terms of a hypothetical, because

585
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 11: it's hydraulic, right, I mean, you squeeze one thing, another

586
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 11: thing comes out the other side. And honestly, we're we're

587
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 11: sitting here, you know, in the House. I'm not involved

588
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 11: in these negotiations, so I don't even know the state

589
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 11: of play of things right now. You know, I'm seeing

590
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 11: press conferences, I'm seeing news reports, and so I'm trying

591
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 11: to ascertain just what the state of play is. So

592
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 11: I'm holding all of my fire until I see the

593
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 11: final framework. I obviously voted for the debt feeling increase

594
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 11: with reforms in it that came out of the House.

595
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 11: I thought it was a sensible framework, and now it's

596
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 11: coming upon the President to come to the table. The

597
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 11: unfortunate thing is just how much timely wasted. Right, we

598
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 11: wasted ninety seven days where the President refused to negotiate

599
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 11: to talking. Now that's good, but you know time is

600
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 11: running out. It's unfortunate in DC you got to wait

601
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 11: till the last minute to get anything done.

602
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: Congress, and we heard from three of President Biden's top

603
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: cabinet officials, including the Secretary of State and the Secretary

604
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 3: of Defense Anthony Blincol Lloyd Austin. They were testifying before

605
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: the Appropriations Committee and sent the message that budget cuts

606
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 3: proposed under this deal could undermine our ability to compete

607
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: militarily and economically with China. I know that we have

608
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 3: yet to establish budget caps and in fact allocate money

609
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 3: for the Pentagon, But is that a concern that you

610
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 3: share as chair of the Select China Committee.

611
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 11: Well, I don't support cuts for the Pentagon. I think

612
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 11: if you look as a percentage of GDP relative to

613
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 11: the Cold War average, were remarkably low in terms of

614
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 11: what we're allocating for defense. So what has the change been.

615
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 11: The change in recent years has been the amount of

616
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 11: money that we're spending on non defense domestic discrestionary programs. Obviously,

617
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 11: there was an explosion during the pandemic in the form

618
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 11: of multiple COVID bills. A lot of that money, by

619
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 11: the way, was wasted or stolen fraud for unemployment plus

620
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 11: ups of forwards of three hundred billion dollars, a lot

621
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 11: of it unspent. So another reason we are demanding the

622
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 11: unspent money bequad back. What we're saying is that we

623
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 11: should return as a baseline to pre pandemic levels, which

624
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 11: just makes a lot of sense to me because we're

625
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 11: no longer in a pandemic and that was just a

626
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 11: historic aberration in terms of sixty trillion dollars spent on

627
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 11: kind of a New deal ish type effort, and so

628
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 11: returning to that baseline makes sense to me. I don't

629
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 11: think that the Defense Department should be the bill pair

630
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 11: as we seek that return to physcal sanity. That being said,

631
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 11: there are enormous deficiencies to be had within the defense budget.

632
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 11: We just don't want a clean across the board increase.

633
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 11: We need to be selective and clinical in terms of

634
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 11: where we're putting that money. We need a bigger navy

635
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 11: and a bigger air force. We don't need a bigger

636
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 11: duty civilian infrastructure. We don't need a bigger bureaucracy. And

637
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 11: we need to replenish our stock files long range precision fire.

638
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 11: So as we increase defense spending, we need to make

639
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 11: sure we're doing it in a way that's prepared with

640
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 11: defense reforms, so we're prioritizing war fighting and leasality, not

641
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 11: useless bureaucracy.

642
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 3: Well, you've got an important hearing set for this evening.

643
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 3: I'd love to ask you about on the Select China Committee.

644
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: Interesting timing on this, it's not till seven pm. It's

645
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: titled leveling the playing Field, how to counter the CCP's

646
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 3: Economic Aggression. And I'm compelled by the fact that you've

647
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 3: called Eric Schmidt, the former CEO of Google, to testify.

648
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: What are you trying to get done tonight, Congressman, Well.

649
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 11: We're hoping to hear. Well, we have a range of perspectives.

650
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 11: We not only have Eric Schmidt, we have Roger Robinson,

651
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 11: who developed the Reagan Administration's economic warfare strategy. We have

652
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 11: Bob Leithheiser, who is a former US trade representative. So

653
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 11: we're going to have a range of views, and I

654
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 11: hope a very wholesome exchange of ideas as to how

655
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 11: we can prevent the CCP from exploiting the openness of

656
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 11: our system and the international systems to advance their agenda

657
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 11: at the expense of working class Americans. A few things

658
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 11: seem obvious to me. We need to figure out a

659
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 11: way to reduce our leverage and key areas, particularly when

660
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 11: it comes to advanced pharmaceutical ingredients, with the CCP has

661
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 11: already threatened to weaponize the supply of life staving drugs

662
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 11: to bring us to our knees. I would extend that

663
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 11: argument to include rare earth and critical mineral production, where

664
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 11: the processing ninety percent of that happens in China. That's unacceptable,

665
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 11: particularly given how many of those rare earth and critical

666
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 11: minerals are used in our weapons system. And then the

667
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 11: final thing that we need to do is stop funding

668
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 11: our own destruction, which is to say, we have to

669
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 11: put guardrails on the outflow of US capital to China

670
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 11: so that American investors aren't helping, for example, the Chinese

671
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 11: AI company like Bad develop technology that's being used to

672
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 11: either kill Americans in a future conflict or enslave Weiger

673
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 11: Muslims in a modern day concentration camp. So those are

674
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 11: the type of recommendations I'm hoping to get at in

675
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 11: the course of this hearing and discussion.

676
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 10: Well, Congressman, I'm glad you brought up AI because National

677
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 10: Security Advisor Jake Sullivan was just speaking moments ago and

678
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 10: said the President will be discussing AI with G seven

679
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 10: countries at the summit in Japan, which he is on

680
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 10: his way to. Now, what are you hoping that the

681
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 10: President can accomplish when he meets with these other G

682
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 10: seven leaders specifically on this issue in China?

683
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 11: Well, miners sam As, the President had to delay at

684
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 11: least part of this trip. I could be wrong about

685
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 11: this because of.

686
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,959
Speaker 10: This, he shortened it on the back end, Yes, oh.

687
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 11: Sure, on the back end he's missing out on the

688
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 11: Quad meeting, correct, which is unfortunately Again, if we hadn't

689
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 11: delayed ninety seven days, we could have I already had

690
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 11: a debt deal and he wouldn't have shortened his trip.

691
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 11: I think this is an area where the free world

692
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 11: needs to be united in terms of the regulations and

693
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 11: the protections we put in place. We of course want

694
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 11: to lead in this technology. We don't want to lose

695
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 11: the AI race to the Chinese Communist Party because they

696
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 11: will use it for nefarious and dystopian purposes. But we

697
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 11: need to make sure we are in complete agreement with

698
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 11: our allies so there's a sensible framework so Americans could

699
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 11: be confident that this technology won't be some Pandora's box.

700
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 11: It's either going to be used for evil or we're

701
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 11: going to lose control of it. The hearings are starting

702
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 11: to have mccapitol hill, I think, are a good part

703
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 11: of that effort. We're going to have a debate on that.

704
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 11: We're doing some stuff behind the scenes on the Select

705
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 11: Committee on China. We're going to play a role on that.

706
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 11: But I hope the President brings it up with our

707
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 11: G seven allies, and I just hope he can arrive

708
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 11: at a framework with our allies that makes sense.

709
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 3: Talgas we can. I just bring in our listeners on

710
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 3: the fact that you've done this entire interview while walking

711
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 3: to your next hearing. This is like an incredible physical feed.

712
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 3: Are you juggling something with your other hand as well?

713
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, I apologize for an ambient.

714
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 3: Noise, not at all.

715
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 11: I'm just amazed you're chaos. So if I'm out of breast,

716
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 11: it's because he has the annual Congressional three mile race

717
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 11: this morning, so it race, and I'm not the young

718
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 11: marine that I once watched, So I apologize.

719
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 3: You're in a lot better shape than I am. Although

720
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 3: Kayley was running around the Capitol Chase and Jamie Diamond earlier,

721
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 3: so maybe you guys can race it out at some point. Look,

722
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 3: I know you were supposed to get off here a

723
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 3: minute ago, mister chairman. Thank you, don't be a stranger.

724
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 3: We'll be listening to the hearing tonight starts at seven o'clock.

725
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 3: You're gonna be up later one. Oh yeah, we'll tickets

726
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 3: for this thing.

727
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 10: You know, that's before my bedtime.

728
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 3: I started thinking he's walking right, and then I realized, no,

729
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 3: he's actually he's like going upstairs, walking through the rotunda,

730
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: probably while he's talking to Kaylee and Joe multitask the

731
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 3: other side exactly. All right, we're getting our steps in

732
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 3: here on the fastest show in politics. I'm Joe Matthew

733
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 3: along with Kaylee Lions. We've got a bit to unpack

734
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 3: their great conversation with the congressman from Wisconsin following our

735
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: talk with Democratic Congressman Dan Kildey of Michigan. You get

736
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 3: both sides on Bloomberg. That's what we do on sound On.

737
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

738
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

739
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

740
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

741
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

742
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 3: We told you yesterday about the latest effort to expel

743
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 3: Congressman George Santos and Kaylee. It looks like the House

744
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 3: is actually going to move.

745
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: On this today.

746
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 11: Yeah.

747
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 10: According to CBS, are going to consider the resolution to

748
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 10: expel Santos. Remember when Congressman Garcia introduced it yesterday, it

749
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 10: was a privileged expulsion resolution, which means the House does

750
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 10: have to deal with it within a two date period.

751
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 10: It's a question though, as they consider it where it

752
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 10: ultimately goes from here, whether or not they decide to

753
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 10: vote on it, which would require two thirds of the

754
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 10: membership of the House to expel Santos, or whether Speaker

755
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 10: McCarthy decides to table it or send it on over

756
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 10: to the Ethics Committee, which he was talking about last night.

757
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 10: The idea that the Ethics Committee needs to do this

758
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 10: work and come to a judgment on the Congressman. I

759
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 10: also addressed this. I was asking questions earlier on Capitol

760
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 10: Hill of some of the Republican members of the House,

761
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 10: and this is what Dan Muser of Pennsylvania told me.

762
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 12: I don't think Santos has the character becoming of a

763
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 12: member of the House, but he wants to send it

764
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 12: to Ethics, So there's a reasonable dup plot process as well.

765
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 12: Let the Ethics Committee review it. If in fact these

766
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 12: issues are substantiated and they recommend his ouster, then he's

767
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 12: gone wow.

768
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 3: Then he's gone yeah. Pretty remarkable stuff all happening at

769
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 3: once here. And of course we've made a big deal

770
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 3: about the math. The idea was that Kevin McCarthy could

771
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: not afford to lose a vote, especially now in the

772
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 3: throes of this debt ceiling debate. But I guess, look,

773
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: he may not have a choice. Then again, this isn't

774
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 3: going to happen that fast. Before this is done right.

775
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, Well, in theory, if the Ethics Committee is the

776
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 10: way that this goes, that could take a great deal

777
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 10: of time. We've seen with ethics and quarries in the

778
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 10: past that they don't actually make a judgment until the

779
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 10: Justice Department has actually done so. In the case is

780
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 10: kind of closed in the US legal system, and then

781
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 10: the Ethics Committee addresses it. So we'll have to see

782
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 10: where it goes. Because of course Santos has been indicted,

783
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 10: but that all still has to play out. He has

784
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 10: pleaded not guilty and he plans to fight it.

785
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 3: All that's happening as we figure out the next steps

786
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 3: and debt ceiling negotiations, and we have a bit of

787
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 3: a different wrinkle on this. I was talking the other

788
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 3: day about the effort to eliminate the debt ceiling. Senator

789
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 3: Chris van Holland, Democrat from Maryland, has legislation that's already

790
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: written that he really wants to get some love for

791
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 3: here that would do away with this altogether. Wouldn't that

792
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: be refreshing? And it's a case that Luis Shiner has

793
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 3: been making for some time now and even testified to

794
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: that year. This is last February on Capitol Hill, and

795
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 3: he hearing that we told you about a bit earlier

796
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 3: this week, we talked to Mick mulvaney about it. If

797
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: she made the case that it's time for the ceiling

798
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: to go.

799
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 7: Bickering over the debt ceiling is a waste of time

800
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 7: and energy. It creates unnecessary uncertainty, It threatens the benefits

801
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 7: that we enjoy of issuing the world's safest asset, and

802
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 7: it undermines public confidence in our public institutions.

803
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 3: I should note that we're going to be talking with

804
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 3: Senator Van Holland later on on Balance of Power on

805
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 3: Bloomberg TV, which is at five o'clock Washington time. We'll

806
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: get his take on it, but I suspect that he

807
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 3: has seen the work of Louise Shiner, Senior Fellow in

808
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 3: Economic Studies at Brookings, Policy director for the Hutchins Center

809
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 3: on Fiscal and Monetary Policy. Louise, it's great to have

810
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 3: you here. This sure would do away with these regular

811
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 3: standoffs that we report on here on Bloomberg that the

812
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 3: nation worries about. You've got Jamie Diamond up there for

813
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: crying out loud, knocking on the door. How come it's

814
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 3: been so hard to eliminate.

815
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 7: So I think it's been so hard to eliminate because

816
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 7: it's viewed as very difficult politically. And let me just

817
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 7: say thank you for having me, by the way, So

818
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,479
Speaker 7: people are very worried about raising the debt celling because

819
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 7: I think it's basically an ad, a political ad that

820
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,479
Speaker 7: rights itself. Your congress person voted to raise the debt

821
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 7: on your children by ex trillion dollars, you know, even

822
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 7: though really the raising of the debt limit has nothing

823
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 7: to do with the debt, right, That's the basic point,

824
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 7: which is the raising of the debt limit doesn't affect

825
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 7: the debt. The debt is coming is a function of

826
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 7: the spending and tax policies that Congress already enacted. So

827
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 7: that's why it's such a sort of kind of crazy

828
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 7: situation because you've got two sets of rules that are

829
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 7: at odds. On the one hand, Congress enacted the spendings

830
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 7: and the taxes that dictate a certain amount of debt implicitly,

831
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 7: and on the other hand, you're saying, well, you have

832
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 7: to do that, but you also can't borrow, so there's

833
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 7: really no way with both laws. So it is a

834
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 7: crazy thing. But I think to US politically, it's viewed

835
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 7: as a really difficult vote because it's just so it

836
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 7: seems so clear when you raise the debt limit, you

837
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 7: created the debt, even though that's not true.

838
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 10: Yeah. I actually was having a conversation about this with

839
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 10: a Republican Senator, Kevin Kramer yesterday, who said he would

840
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 10: not support the abolishing of the debt ceiling. He did

841
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 10: have other ideas about ways to reform it. Though. If

842
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 10: this ultimately is about, you know, the agreements to spend money,

843
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 10: what about the idea of just making sure that the

844
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 10: debt ceiling lift is always paired with appropriations and spending packages.

845
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 7: I mean, that would work too, right, So if you

846
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 7: pass some certain increased spending and you're basically saying the

847
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 7: only way to do this is with more debt, and

848
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 7: you at the same time raise the deatl limit, it

849
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 7: would be as if it didn't exist.

850
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 10: So from my perspective, okay, so it gets us to

851
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 10: the same place. Ultimately, it gets.

852
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 7: Us to the same place, which is not having these

853
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 7: really counterproductive episodes like now, where all of the energy

854
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 7: is going into this negotiation, and the negotiation is only

855
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 7: powerful because it's really holding the US economy hostage, So

856
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 7: it's pretty dangerous.

857
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 3: What do we replace it with if it replaces the

858
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 3: right word here? Do you just give the authority to

859
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 3: the treasury.

860
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 7: So if you don't have a debt limit, then you're

861
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 7: not giving any authority to Treasury. Treasury is carrying out

862
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 7: the will of Congress. Treasury is paying the social curity

863
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 7: payments that Congress has legislated. Treasury is collecting the tax

864
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 7: revenue that comes from Congress's tax law. So Treasury is

865
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 7: just administrating Congress's law. Right, So there's already a set

866
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 7: of laws dictating what Treasury should do. The reason this

867
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 7: is such a such a complicated issue is we actually

868
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 7: don't know what Treasury should do if the debt limit binds,

869
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 7: because there's no set of laws that tells it. How

870
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 7: do like it's based with two different laws. If it

871
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 7: doesn't make social curnity payments, it's breaking one law. If

872
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 7: it borrows, it's breaking in So I don't think we

873
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 7: need that debt limit to limit Treasury's discretion. It's already

874
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 7: limited by law.

875
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 10: Well, and we know Joe because we've Bloomberg has asked

876
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 10: Treasury Secretary Jenny Yell and some of the other under

877
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 10: secretaries as well, including Wali Adiama. What does the Treasury

878
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 10: do if we get to the X state and the

879
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 10: ceiling hasn't been raised. They have been very tight liqud

880
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 10: about that. Yeah, they don't want to go there at all, Louise.

881
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 10: It does kind of raise the point for me, though,

882
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 10: that we do this repeatedly. Right, We've seen this episode

883
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 10: play out over and over again, and some of these

884
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 10: are really long term issues. When we're talking about the

885
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 10: amount of spending that is mandatory Social Security and Medicare,

886
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 10: and yet there is you know, predictions about how unsustainable

887
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 10: it is. How do you kind of think about the

888
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 10: longer term view aside from you know, this current debt

889
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 10: ceiling battle ongoing, This is something the US is going

890
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 10: to have to deal with time and time again going

891
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 10: into the future because of those entitlement programs.

892
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, so we definitely have a long term debt issue,

893
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 7: a fiscal problem that needs to be addressed. But the

894
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 7: whole the thing with the debt limit though, is it

895
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 7: really not any evidence that having the debt limit has

896
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 7: led to a lower debt? Right, It's not really an

897
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 7: effective rule. So I'm just like, well, can Congress get

898
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 7: itself to do things by having a rule that imposes

899
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 7: on itself like not really, so we will address our

900
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 7: long term problems when people on both sides actually really

901
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 7: want to address them. And right now there hasn't been

902
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 7: really until now, there's any much worry about sort of

903
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 7: future deficits. And we are an aging society. The aging

904
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 7: society is putting pressure on the budget. There will have

905
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 7: to be made adjustments made, which could be on the

906
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 7: spending side, it could be on the tax side, and

907
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 7: those are things that Congress will have to do in

908
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 7: an deliberative process. I mean, reforming our entitlement programs or

909
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 7: increasing taxes is something that you want to take, you

910
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 7: want to consider, you want to think about carefully, what

911
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 7: the ramifications are. You don't want to do it sort

912
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 7: of with a gun to your head during a debt

913
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 7: sealing negotiation, where if you don't do something really quickly,

914
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 7: you know, the economy implodes. So there are long term problems,

915
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 7: but the debt ceiling is really not the way to

916
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 7: address them, and don't think it actually even is effective

917
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 7: at addressing them.

918
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 3: We talked about this idea with Mick mulvaney earlier in

919
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 3: the week. He was he testified that that same hearing

920
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 3: in which you made your case, and he says just

921
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 3: because it isn't just because it's hard, doesn't mean we

922
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 3: shouldn't do it. Was his point that it actually focuses

923
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: our attention on dealing with spending levels.

924
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: Is he wrong?

925
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 7: I think he is a little bit wrong because the

926
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 7: attention is about the long term budget challenge. It's not

927
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 7: about spending levels. Like it's not because we've been so

928
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,439
Speaker 7: profligate that we're going to have this huge problem going forward.

929
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 7: It's really because of population aging. So you know, when

930
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 7: you want to think about that, you you should think

931
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 7: about all is not just spending. You should think about

932
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 7: revenues as well. And one of the things that I

933
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 7: think is important to recognize that people don't recognize is

934
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 7: why do we care about the debt. We care about

935
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 7: the debt because we worry that it's bad for a

936
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 7: few generations. Right, We're like, oh, that our children are

937
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 7: going to have to pay for this debt that we're

938
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 7: mounting up. So then when you think about if we're

939
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 7: going to do things to address the debt because we

940
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 7: want to improve the future, we should not be cutting

941
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 7: spending that is helpful for the future. So we should

942
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 7: not be cutting spending that is going to help with

943
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 7: climate resilience. We should not be cutting spending that provides

944
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 7: health care and food stamps to poor families, because we

945
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 7: know empirically that those are basically investments. Kids who get

946
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 7: these benefits do much better in the future. So it

947
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 7: doesn't really make sense to say, well, we just can't

948
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 7: afford to do these things. Actually, we can't afford not

949
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 7: to if we're caring about the future. So that's why

950
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 7: I think it's really important to think more carefully about

951
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 7: this and not just sort of say kind of label

952
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 7: wele all spending is bad and we have to deal

953
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 7: with it, and we have to cut spending.

954
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 3: Luis, thank you for joining us, and it's an important

955
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 3: angle to consider here as we debate this thing up

956
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 3: and down. K Leak, thanks for listening to The Sound

957
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 3: on podcast. Make sure to subscribe it if you haven't already,

958
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 3: at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts,

959
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 3: And you can find us live every weekday from Washington,

960
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 3: DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.