1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: This weekend. On the podcast, I have an extra special guest, 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: an extra extra special guest. He is Senator George Mitchell. 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: He was the majority leader of the Senate for quite 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: a while. His his curriculum vitae is just immense. Rather 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: than go over that, I'm just gonna say, if you're 7 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: at all interested in the state of politics today and 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: how we got a here, what we should be focusing on, 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: what policymaking is really about, then sit down, strap yourself 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: in for a master class in American politics and policy. 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: With no further ado, my conversation with Senator George Mitchell. 12 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening to Master's in Business on 13 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. I have an extra special guess this week. 14 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 1: His name is Senator George Mitchell. He was the majority 15 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: leader of the U. S. Senate from has a rich 16 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: and full career in politics and I can't even begin 17 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: to read read you his his curriculum vitae in the 18 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: army for two years, goes to Georgetown Law School, graduates 19 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty one. He is the assistant to Senator 20 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: Ed Edmonds Muskie before he has appointed U. S. Attorney 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: for the District in Maine by President Carter. He served 22 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: as a federal judge principal architect of a number of 23 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: peace treaties in Northern Ireland, in the Middle East. In baseball, 24 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: He was also chairman of the Walt Disney Company. Senator 25 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: George Mitchell, Welcome to Bloomberg. Thanks for having me. So 26 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: you have a storied background, but I have to go 27 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: back at least to the beginning of your legal career. 28 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: You graduate Archtown Law in nineteen sixty one. You practice 29 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: law for about a dozen years. What what sort of 30 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: legal practice did you have? I began with the Department 31 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: of Justice. UH, served there for a couple of years. 32 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: Then I was hired by Senator Muskie to be on 33 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 1: his staff here in the U. S. Senate in Washington. 34 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: From there I left to join the law firm in 35 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: Maine in x and I practiced there for about a 36 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: dozen years. UH. Like everything else in life, the practice 37 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: of law was much different than that is now, far 38 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: less specialization. So I did a wide range of things, 39 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: including I began increasingly to become involved as a trial lawyer. UH. 40 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: And I participated also as an assistant local what we 41 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: call county attorney. So I tried dozens and dozens of cases, criminal, civil, everything, 42 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 1: mostly criminal. I did do some civil war and then 43 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: I became the U. S. Attorney and there I tried 44 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: a very large number of criminal cases as well. You're 45 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: appointed by Jimmy Carter, you serve as U. S. Attorney 46 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: for a couple of years. Somewhere in there, I recall 47 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: reading a brief stint as a federal judge. Is that right? 48 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: That's right. I was appointed a federal judge when the 49 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: Congress enacted legislation to increase the number of federal judges 50 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: in Maine. We had had since the state's creation in 51 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty only one federal judge, and uh that was 52 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: double to two. And I became the second federal judge, 53 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: only the twelfth and the whole history of the state. 54 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: And then there's a um mid term opening in the Senate, 55 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: and you're appointed to the U. S. Senate by Governor 56 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: Joseph Brennan in nineteen eighty and you run for election 57 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: in two and when by a pretty substate intel margin. 58 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: I did win by a substantial margin, but for most 59 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: of the race. I was behind by a substantial model. 60 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: Very deeply etched in my memory is little over a 61 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: year before the election when the headline news in a 62 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: large daily newspaper was that I was trailing my opponent 63 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: by thirty six percentage points in the general election. And 64 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: at that time I was threatened with a primary election 65 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: and I was behind in that race. Okay, so the 66 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: come come from behind kid? How how did you end 67 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: up closing that giant gap? What was Were you just 68 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: less known to the voters or what was the big disparity? 69 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: It was a combination of factors. First, the primary challenge 70 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: never materialized, so I ended up getting the nomination without 71 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: a contest. And then it was they head to head 72 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: race for over a year. We had a lot of 73 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: public appearances together. We had six televised debates and dates. 74 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: We barely do that anymore. No, that's right. Well, it 75 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: was my opponent who challenged me to the debates, and 76 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: as the incumbent, I accepted them. Uh, And gradually, over time, 77 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: I think I became better known and the tide slowly 78 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: changed in my favor. I ended up pointing by a 79 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: comfortable margin of the vote. So you get elected and 80 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: fairly quickly you rise to the role of Senate majority leader. 81 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: How did that happen? I was very fortunate. Uh. I 82 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: was named the chairman of the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee 83 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: for the nine six elections. Uh. That's a position that 84 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: each party has. You helped candidates trning for office. So 85 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: there's some influence in some power that goes well. There 86 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: is if you do well. And we were very fortunate 87 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: in the year. Although President Reagan was then in his 88 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: second termam a really at the peak of his popularity. 89 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: In the election of X we gained eleven seats and 90 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: went from being the minority party to the majority party. 91 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: Midterm elections often helps the party out of power. Will 92 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: come back to that in a bit. So we were 93 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 1: talking about elections, we're talking about how things have changed, 94 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: the modern era of social media and little bubbles that 95 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: people are in. How does that affect politics today. It's 96 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: had a dramatic effect. Really, like the rest of life 97 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: in general, you can't think of politics is something separate 98 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: from the rest of our lives because it's affected by 99 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: the same influences that work our family. All of our 100 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: lives are and as we've seen the dramatic changes in 101 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: human life, brought about through the technological advancements of recent years, 102 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: the creation of social media, the beginning of cable news services, 103 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: the increasing polarization of the media itself, which both influences 104 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: and is influenced by those attitudes in public So, uh, 105 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: serving in public office now is much different than it 106 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: was when I was there. Running for public office is 107 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: even more different. Let's talk a little bit about your 108 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: background in international diplomacies, and we should begin with Northern Ireland. 109 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: You a special envoy there for six years. You helped 110 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: negotiate a number of UM resolutions to the conflict there. 111 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: How did you get the parties to the table over 112 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: a five year span. I shared three separate sets of discussions. 113 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: The main negotiation lasted about two years. Uh. Interestingly, there 114 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: were ten political parties in Northern Ireland and the two governments, 115 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: so there were twelve parties and all to the negotiation. 116 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: Not once ever was I able to get all twelve 117 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: into the same room at the same time. Somebody had 118 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: walked out, somebody had been evicted, somebody didn't like something 119 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: that day, so we never got everybody together. As a 120 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: result of which I did a lot of what I 121 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: would call moving negotiation. I would go to their offices 122 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: individually and see them one group at a time. I 123 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: would have meetings with two of them or six of them. Uh. 124 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: Once in a while we had most of them there, 125 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: but it was very difficult because of the long standing 126 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: hostility and mistrust. In the end, UH, to their great credit, 127 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: the politicallys of Northern Ireland, who had spent their lives 128 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: in conflict, H took a great risk personal, physical risk, 129 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: political risk by entering into an agreement which pleased to say. 130 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: Today this year marks the twentieth anniversary of it, and 131 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: the piece is held. They remain divided, there are great 132 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: differences of opinion. The government is not now functioning because 133 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: of internal disagreement, but the violence has largely ended, and 134 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: to me, that's a significant accomplishment, I'll say so. So 135 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: the issue of the separate Northern Ireland politics sort of 136 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: reared its head again with the Brexit vote. You know, 137 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: there was a vote previous, Scotland and Ireland vote to 138 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: stay in the United Kingdom and then they're both very 139 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: much in favor of the EU and then suddenly there's 140 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: this Brexit vote and everybody seems to be surprised by it. 141 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: How do you look at the political situation in the 142 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: UK and how significant is the Russian interference there. We 143 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: keep reading about that the Brexit vote taken by the 144 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: people of the United Kingdom was democratically taken and therefore 145 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: must be respected. But I believe personally the it will 146 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: prove to be an historic mistake for the people of 147 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom themselves and also and in particularly the 148 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: people of Ireland. Not just Northern Ireland, which is a 149 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: part of the United Kingdom along with England, Scotland and Wales, 150 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: but the Republic of Ireland, which the economy of which 151 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: is deeply integrated into that of the United Kingdom. Keep 152 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: in mind, Ireland has five million people. The United Kingdom 153 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: has sixty million people. The United Kingdom is a large, 154 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: powerful nation. Ireland is heavily dependent on the economic integration 155 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: with the UK, and so the people of Ireland risk 156 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: being those most hurt by the UK decision to leave 157 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: the European Union. Now how much that how much Brexit 158 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: will be hard or soft, will they remain in a 159 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: customed union, will it be a complete break? All those 160 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: are now being decided literally as we speak in the 161 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: British element and elsewhere, But I think it is an 162 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: important matter for all the people of Ireland north and South, 163 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: and all of the UK as well. I hope very 164 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: much that the Prime Minister of the UK takes the 165 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: position that they will accept what people refer to as 166 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: a soft Brexit, not completely set of their relations with 167 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: the European Union, and that's very much in the United 168 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: States interests as well. Is there any chance that cooler 169 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: heads prevail and everybody wakes up one day and says 170 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: this is a terrible idea, let's let's not do this. 171 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: I think that's not likely. At the time, it appears 172 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: that the UK is going to move towards some form 173 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: of change in its status within the European Union. I 174 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: hope that both the leaders of the UK and the 175 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: leaders of the European Union will negotiate in good faith 176 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: to minimize the adverse impact, both economically and politically. A 177 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: strong European Union, in my judgment, has been a major 178 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: contributor to peace, stability and prosperity, now just in Europe, 179 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: but around the world. So let's let's talk a little 180 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: bit about peace around the world. The summit on on 181 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: the Korean Peninsula that took place in Singapore. What are 182 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: your thoughts about this. We must all hope and pray 183 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: that it succeeds, because that is one of the most 184 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: dangerous flashpoints in the world. But let's keep in mind 185 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: that the United States position, as enunciated repeatedly by Sector 186 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: State Pompeo, including as recently as a day ago, is 187 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: that there must be complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization. The statement 188 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: issued today by the President and Kim Jong un omitted 189 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: the words verifiable and irreversible. Indeed, it was not a 190 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: new statement. It referred simply to the statement made months 191 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: ago in April by Kim Jong un that they would 192 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: agree to de nuclearization. So, as of now, the two 193 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: parties have different interpretations of what does denuclearization mean. That 194 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: must be negotiated out, and hopefully the administration will insist 195 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: on the American definition being accepted. The second major point 196 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: to be negotiated is the pace of change. The President 197 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: has said it's going to happen variously. He's used the 198 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: words immediately, right away, fast, quickly. Kim Jong un has 199 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: said it is a process that will take a long 200 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: time and that it should be phased out over a 201 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: long period of time. I think that the President's words 202 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: in this respect are somewhat over optimistic. I think it 203 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: is going to take time, But the question is how 204 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: much time and how will it be verified? How can 205 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: we know for certain they're doing what they say they're doing. 206 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: Keep in mind that no North Korean, not Kim Jong 207 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: On any other, has ever used the words verifiable and irreversible. 208 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: So we heard um the US has given up war 209 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: exercises in the China Sea. There's talks about relieving some 210 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: of the embargoes that around Korea. We've given them a 211 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: lot of prestige just by having their president sit down 212 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: with our president. Doesn't seem like we've gotten a whole 213 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: lot back so far. What's the takeaway from this initial summit. Well, 214 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: we've made three significant possessions already to the North Koreans. 215 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: The first is the meeting itself. Every North Korean leader 216 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: wanted a meeting with the American president because that, of 217 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: course places them at the center of the international stage. 218 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: The secon and is that we have changed our policy dramatically. 219 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: Until just recently, the American policy under President Trump and 220 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: his predecessors was that North Korea had to commit to 221 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: de nuclearization as a condition to getting into a meeting. 222 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: Now that is shifted from a condition to getting into 223 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: the meeting to a goal of the meeting. That's a 224 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: significant concession. And the third is, of course, and end 225 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: to the joint US South Korean military exercises, which is 226 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: has been a longstanding objective of North Korea. Now, if 227 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: it turns out that we do get full and verifiable 228 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: and irreversible denucluisation, it will have been worth the price, 229 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: but we don't know that yet. And so until now 230 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: there to go. The concessions have gone one way, and 231 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: we'll have to see what to negotiations produced. All of 232 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: us must hope and pray that it will succeed and 233 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: the policy as we expect it will take place, but 234 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: that remains to be seen, and it's going to be 235 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: a long difficult road. Let's talk a little bit about 236 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: life after the Senate. You become chairman of the Disney Corporation. Uh, 237 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: and you're there for four years? How did that? How 238 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: did that position come about? Just before I left the Senate, 239 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: I was contacted by Michael Eisner, who was then the 240 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: CEO and chairman of the Walt Disney Company, asked to 241 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: meet with him and members of the board, and they 242 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: offered me the position of president of the company, that 243 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: is second in line to after CEO. A great man 244 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: named Frank Wells had held that position. He had died 245 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: tragically in a helicopter crash, and they were looking for 246 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: someone to succeed them. After giving a careful consideration with 247 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: my wife, five was of course flattered and honored by 248 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: the offer, I decided not to accept it because my 249 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: goal was to get back into the practice of law, 250 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: with which I was more familiar, and I wanted to 251 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: continue living in the East. Uh. I told Michael, and 252 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 1: about a month later he called me and said, we 253 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: know you've turned us down on the other position, but 254 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: we have a vacancy on the board of directors. Would 255 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: you be interested in join the board? And I was 256 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: very much interested. I like Michael, I liked the company. 257 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 1: It was interesting and exciting for me, and so I 258 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: served on that board for about twelve years, the last 259 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: four of which I was the chairman of the board. 260 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: So your chairman at the same time that Disney ends 261 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: up buying Picks are a tremendous acquisition that so far 262 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: as worked out really well. What was the decision making process, 263 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: like was that motivated by Eisner? By Steve Jobs? Who? 264 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: Who moved that forward? And how did the board respond 265 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: to a lot of people were a little skeptic given 266 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: what looked like a high price. It's since paid off 267 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: in spades, but back then people were concerned about it. Uh. 268 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: The decision was made by Bob Iger shortly after he 269 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: took office. Uh in UH discussions with the Steve Jobs 270 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: and UH. Steve then joined our board and so we 271 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: overlapped on the board for a relatively short time and 272 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: then I retired. Uh. It was a good acquisition. Interestingly, 273 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: that occurred right at the end of my tenure. Right 274 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: at the very beginning of my tenure, we had made 275 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: a large acquisition of ABC which included ESPN that also 276 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: was criticized for overpaying, but it turned out very well. 277 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: So we had at the beginning and at the end 278 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: the acquisitions that paid off very well. In between, we 279 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: had a third one which wasn't so good, that was 280 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: purchasing UH what was then the Power Rangers became ABC Family. 281 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: So UH, overall the record was good, but it wasn't perfect. 282 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: So after the Pixar purchase, Steve Jobs, I believe becomes 283 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: the biggest outside shareholder of Disney. Uh. You're on the 284 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: board with him. What was that like? He's a famously 285 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: mercurial CEO. What was he like as a Board of 286 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: directors member? He was a valuable and contributing member of 287 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: the board. Uh, very outspoken, very direct in his comments. 288 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: I found him to be helpful to the board's deliberations 289 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: and proceedings, although, as I said, we overlapped for a 290 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: relatively short period of time. So you also served as 291 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: a director for Federal Express, for Xerox, for Staples, for 292 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: unital Leaver. How did the background in the Senate, and 293 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: I guess, especially a majority leader, how did that help 294 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: you prepare for those sort of private sector roles? While 295 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: serving a SENTI majority leader is a very tough job. 296 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: You don't have any real specific power, only the opportunity 297 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,239 Speaker 1: to try to persuade people to do things that they 298 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: should be doing without being asked. But you do acquire 299 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: some degree of patients, some degree of insight into how 300 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: to bring people together. Uh. And so it was very 301 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: helpful to me, not only in my role as a 302 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: corporate director as chairman of a board, but also in 303 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: my work in Northern Ireland, the Middle East and elsewhere. 304 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: I want to say that for me, service on the 305 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: boards that you described was really an enjoyable educational experience. 306 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: I met and worked with some really great leaders. I'd 307 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: mentioned Michael Eisner, who did a great job for twenty 308 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: years with Disney. Bob Iger, who succeeded him, has done 309 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: a great job during his tenure. One of the great 310 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: persons I've ever met in any compare the political business 311 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: was Fred Smith. I knew you're gonna know who was 312 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: the founder and long term CEO of Federal Express. Fred 313 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: as a terrific guy, would have succeeded in any walk 314 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: of life that he chose. There were great leaders in 315 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: other companies as well that I served on from whom 316 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: I learned a lot. So During the steroid scandal at baseball, 317 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: the performance nancing drug scandal, Major League Baseball was flailing 318 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: about looking for a way to help resolve it. You 319 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: got involved. Tell us how you helped them move beyond 320 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: that era in in sports. That was a very difficult 321 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: undertaking because I had no power to compel anyone to 322 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: talk with me or to produce documents. Everything is voluntary 323 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: and the Major League Baseball Players Association made the decision 324 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: to oppose the investigation and to refuse to cooperate in 325 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: any way. Of the twelve hundred major league players, only 326 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: one voluntarily agreed to talk to me. In response to 327 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: my request. I sent a letter to every single one 328 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: of the twelve players, and only one responded. And who 329 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: was that. That was Frank Thomas, who was then with 330 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: the White Sox, a great player who made the Hall 331 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: of Fame, and I met with him. It was on 332 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: the condition that he wasn't going to disclose any names, 333 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: and he didn't, but he confirmed the fact that there 334 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: was widespread use of steroids. He resented the fact that 335 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: he had achieved historic successes, putting him in the Hall 336 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: of Fame in a clean way, but he had to 337 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: compete with players who cheated by using drugs. And I 338 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: made the argument to the players, which they rejected at 339 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: the time, but later accepted that the principal victims of 340 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: what was going on, with the majority of players who 341 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: didn't cheat, they had to compete with players who were cheating, 342 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: and their livelihood were endangered. They rejected at the time, 343 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: but I'm very pleased to tell you that after I 344 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: issued my report, there began to be a change in 345 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: attitude and right now, to their great credit, the players 346 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: strongly support vigorous enforcement, a comprehensive program, and Major League Baseball, 347 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: to the eternal credit of the then Commissioner Bud Selig, 348 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: who started this process, and to the players who have 349 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: now come around to this view, major League Baseball has 350 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: the toughest most effective drug testing drug prevention program in 351 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: professional sports in the United States. Fascinating stuff. I have 352 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: to just ask you the straight up question, what do 353 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: you think of the state of politics in America today? 354 00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: It's unfortunate, uh, were dysfunctional as widely used, and I 355 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: think that it does not reflect well on our country, 356 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: or on our democracy, on or on our political process. 357 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: But let's point some fingers, because no one person, no 358 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: one party, gets all of the blame. But but how 359 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: would who would you point fingers at historically that led 360 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: us to where we are today? Where there are many factors. 361 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: I'm not an historian or a sociologist. I'm an ex politician. 362 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: I'll make two comments, uh, two suggestions that I think, 363 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: if adopted, would help improve the situation. Where in the 364 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,959 Speaker 1: first is to jerrymandering the manipulation of congressional district lines 365 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: each ten years after the census. It's been going on 366 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: since the country was founded, but technology has advanced so rapidly, 367 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 1: and as you know, technologies neutral. It can be used 368 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: for good purposes, it can be used for bad purposes. 369 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: In the case of Gerryman has been used to an 370 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: extreme way that has resulted in what you might call 371 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: minority representation UH in state after state, big states, Pennsylvania, Michigan, 372 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: North Carolina, Republican candidates for the House of Representatives in 373 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: recent the most recent years after the last redistricting, received 374 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: a minority of the vote and got a huge majority 375 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: of the seats. Underway now is an effort in sixteen states, 376 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: led by California and Iowa, to to deep politicized, to 377 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: reduce the politicization of the process of rewriting, revising congressional 378 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: districts to make them more compact, more logical, more competitive. 379 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: I think that's a huge factor and that will go 380 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: a long way toward reducing the dysfunction. That's very pro democracy, 381 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: and that's less about grabbing power and more about respecting 382 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: That's exactly right there say some there's some Supreme Court 383 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: cases spending on this all there are. It's a big 384 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: issue now for the stream. The second is money. We 385 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: are drowning in money. I travel all over this country 386 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: and for ten years I have asked every audience, do 387 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: you believe that our members of Congress are more responsive 388 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: to their constituents than they are to their donors? In 389 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: ten years before tens of thousands of people, only two 390 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: or three people have raised their hands. That that's the 391 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: corruption of American politics. The trust of the public in 392 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: their elected officials has been severed. And you cannot have 393 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: an effectively functioned democracy if the people do not trust 394 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: those who they have elected. And a big reason for 395 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: that is money. The Supreme Court, in a series of decisions, 396 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: the best known one being Citizens United, has opened the 397 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: floodgates to money pouring into our system at precisely the 398 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: time that, in a series of unrelated actions, transparency has decreased, 399 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: almost to the point of vanishing. So you have this 400 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: double whammy, billions and billions of dollars being poured into 401 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: the political process, less and less openness for the people 402 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: to know who's giving what to whom. So you're not 403 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 1: a big believer as some Supreme Court Justices seem to 404 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: be that money is the same as speech. So they 405 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: say money is money and speech is speech. And every 406 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,239 Speaker 1: sixth grade student in America knows they're not identical. And 407 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 1: the second point is that we ought to have the 408 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: right in our country, the people, through their elected representatives, 409 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: to impose reasonable restraints on contributions to political campaigns and 410 00:27:54,920 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: expenditures by political campaigns. This Supreme Court has effectively prohibited that. 411 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: And that's what we need is a change that says, yes, 412 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: American people can they do have the right to control 413 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: the amounts of money going into campaigns and to control 414 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: the manner in which that money has spent in political campaigns. 415 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: Until that happens, I don't think we're going to see 416 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: any change in the dysfunction. I think, in fact, it 417 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 1: will get worse. What what about public financing of of 418 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: candidates and elections instead of private donations. I believe in it, 419 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 1: but it doesn't have political support in our country. When 420 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: I was sent a majority leader, we passed in the 421 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: Congress for the last time a major comprehensive campaign finance law. 422 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: We couldn't get the votes to include public financing. It 423 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: did a lot of other good things, but unfortunately President 424 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: Bush vetoed the bill and we couldn't override the V two. 425 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 1: So let's talk about the sixteen presidents election. A number 426 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: of people were surprised by the outcome. I recall sitting 427 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: and my wife was a big Hillary supporter. She's a 428 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: public school teacher, and I remember very early watching the 429 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: returns come in. We saw North Carolina was a little 430 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: it a little uh late, and and some of the 431 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: other normally Democratic leaning states like Virginia, and I recall 432 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: saying to her, honey, Uh, this doesn't look like it's 433 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: going your way. How surprised were you buy the outcome 434 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: of that election. I had a feeling it was coming, 435 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,479 Speaker 1: and in fact I appeared on Bloomberg Television that evening, 436 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: and just before I went on, the young man who 437 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: worked for Bloomberg doing the cabulating and the interpreting the 438 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: votes come up to me and said, Trump is gonna win? Really? 439 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: And he did, yes, Yes, as a young man, just 440 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: in the same building, a different floor. So at that 441 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: point I realized that it was over. Of course, as 442 00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: we all know, Trump lost the popular popular vote by 443 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: about three million, but under our system, he won fairly 444 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: and in a democratic way. Uh, my disagreements with the 445 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: president focused on policy. Has been a lot of talk 446 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: about his personal characteristics, and everybody, every citizen, is able 447 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: to make up his or her own mind. In that respect, 448 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: I think the public debate ought to focus on policy, 449 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: and my disagreements with him are in the area of policy, 450 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: most recently in the so called tariff wars and the 451 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: trade wars and tarroifts being imposed on our lies like 452 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: Canada and the European Union. And so she's got this 453 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: hugely ironic situation where the president is praising Putin and 454 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: Kim Jong un and blasting Canada's prime minister and the Europeans, 455 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: who are our historical lies. Well, the Canadians are a 456 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: very vicious warlike people on our northern border. You have 457 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: to you have to be prepared for Uh. Yeah, I'm 458 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: I'm every bit of surprised that it's China, Russia, and 459 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: North Korea are now our friends and Canada, the UK 460 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: and Europe seems to somehow be our our adversaries. And 461 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: to say that's a complete misreading of history. Also in 462 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: the after let me go back in the seventy five 463 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: years before nine, Europe was devastated by three major landfomers 464 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: in the last to the United States interfered decisively in 465 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: the aftermath of that terrible conflict, in which sixty three 466 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: million people died in a world in which the population 467 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: was less than half of what it is now, we 468 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: the United States, led the creation of a world order 469 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: to promote trade, stability, peace, and prosperity, and it included 470 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: the European Union, NATO institutions to help people, all of them, 471 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: achieve democracy and freedom and prospery Arnie, and largely it 472 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: has worked. It's imperfect, as are all human beings and 473 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: all institutions. What the President is doing is in effect 474 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: tearing down that system and trying to replace it with 475 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: a series of ad hoc alliances with Russia, with China, 476 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: and with North Korea. There's no reason why the two 477 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: have to be mutually exclusive. We don't have to attack 478 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: Canada in order to do a deal with North Korea. 479 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: We don't have to seek the dissolution of the European 480 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: Union in order to deal with China or Russia more effectively. 481 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: In fact, the opposite is true. We should be strengthening 482 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: our alliance with our friends to help us in dealing 483 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: with our historic adversaries, and as as I put it, 484 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: we should be combining with Europe to deal with the 485 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: real abuses by China in the system of world trade. Instead, 486 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: it is we who are isolated and China and others 487 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: who are allied against us. It's an ironic turn in 488 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: the wheel of history that I think will ultimately redound 489 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: not well for the United States. Let's talk about China. 490 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: It seems that the United States is seating leadership on 491 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: a number of areas to China. Technology, helping the Third 492 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: World come crawl out of their economic disadvantage, trade, immigration, 493 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: China seems to really have stepped into the void that 494 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: the US since has has created. Well, the greatest gift 495 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: that the Chinese government could receive was given by President 496 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: Trump when he took office and withdrew from the Trans 497 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: Pacific Trade Partnership. These were ten Pacific facing nations who 498 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: wanted to establish their primary economic relationship with the United States. 499 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: They did not want China to be dominating them in 500 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: economic or other affairs, and we spurned that effort. We 501 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: in effect withdrew. So what did they do? Well, They're 502 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: now turning to an agreement that will include China. We 503 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: effectively walked out the door and left it open for 504 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,399 Speaker 1: the Chinese to dominate, and and that was a profound error. Now, 505 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: the fact is the Chinese have abused and misused international 506 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 1: trade mechanisms. They don't enforce intellectual property rights, they impose 507 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: restrictions on foreign investment. There is a great deal of 508 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: theft of international property rights. We should be addressing those directly, 509 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: with the support of our allies, in a way that 510 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: deals with the problem. If you've got an intellectual property 511 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: rights problem, you address that directly. A broadly tariff based, 512 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: tariff increased based approach is exactly the wrong approach. So 513 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: we're using the wrong weapon to fight the Chinese in 514 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: there in the way they're abusing the system, and we 515 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: are at the same time severing our ties with our 516 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: allies who should be supporting us in the effort. The 517 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: Europeans cannot understand what it is that we're doing because 518 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: it is ultimately so contrary to our own interests. Astonishing stuff. 519 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Senate Majority Leader uh and 520 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: peace negotiator Senator George Mitchell. If you enjoy this conversation, 521 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: be sure and come back to check out the podcast extras. 522 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: You can find that on iTunes, overcast stature, Bloomberg dot com, 523 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: wherever final podcasts are sold. We love your comments, feedback 524 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast at 525 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot net. Check out my daily column on Bloomberg 526 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: dot com. Follow me on Twitter at rit Holts. I'm 527 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: Barry Hults. You're listening to Masters and Business on Bloomberg Radio. 528 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast, Sandra Mitchell. Thank you so much 529 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: for doing this. I'm a fan of yours for a 530 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: while and I really enjoy the master's um level education 531 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: in policy and politics. Well. Thanks, I'm glad to be here. 532 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: It's have been a pleasure to talk with you. So 533 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: so let's go over some of the questions we didn't 534 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,479 Speaker 1: get to during the broadcast portion you you had said 535 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: something that I took a note on. Being Senate Majority 536 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: leader is is very challenging and you don't have a 537 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: lot of explicit authority, but you do have the ability 538 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: to appoint chair people of different committees and standing um 539 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: appoint mensay, as well as you get to control what 540 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: comes to the floor. I would think it's a fairly 541 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: big amount of fairly substantial amount of power in one person. 542 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: That the fifty plus senators the that answer to the 543 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: majority leader are not going to want to make you 544 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: upset with them. The majority leader no longer has the 545 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: direct power to appoint chairman and individual committee members. That's 546 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: done on both sides, generally by a committee of senators. 547 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: He does appoint to steering what we call the Steering Committee, 548 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: so he does have an indirect authority. But also there 549 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: have been customs built up, including seniority, which is an 550 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: absolute but as a huge factor. So you're right, he is, 551 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: I would get I would describe it as first among equals. 552 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,919 Speaker 1: Does have some degree, but it is no way near 553 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 1: the power to say of the Speaker of the House. 554 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: The Speaker of the House is mentioned in the constitutional 555 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: constitutional office. In fact, the Speaker of the House is 556 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: third in line to the presidency and the event of 557 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: something happening. Uh, the Senate majority leader is not mentioned anywhere. 558 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: It's it's a custom that arose when the Senate became dysfunctional, 559 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: long after the Senate itself began its existence. So, Uh, 560 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: you have the power of persuasion, you have to gain 561 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: the trust and confidence of your colleagues. So Senator Mitch 562 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: McConnell has been majority leader for the Republicans for quite 563 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: some time. Now, what do you think of the job 564 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: he's done, both as a former Senate majority leader and 565 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 1: as a Democrat looking at the control the opposing party 566 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: has well. I regard Mitch as a friend. I was 567 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: flattered when he was a like a majority leader, he 568 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: described me as the role model he had intended to emulate. 569 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: I think he's been very effective in behalf of his 570 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 1: party and the principles of his party. I disagree with 571 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: some of the things he's done. I strongly disagreed with 572 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: his decision, which has proven to be effective from their standpoint, 573 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: to not permit even a hearing or a vote on 574 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: President Obama's nominee to the Supreme Court one year before 575 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: Obama left office. That's going to come back someday and 576 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: haunt them because every weapon used in politics war is 577 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: rapidly disseminated to the other side. So it's just a 578 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 1: matter of time until right after the mid term elections, 579 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: a party says, well, we're not going to consider any 580 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,879 Speaker 1: more presidential nominees. If it can be one year, why 581 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: can't it be two years. I think that's very destructive 582 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: of the process. Harmful for the country, but I think 583 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: it sure did advance the interest of the Republican Party. 584 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: Do you think they stole a seat? Is that a 585 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: fair way? Well, I I don't use those words. He 586 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 1: pursued a policy, he was firm on it, he executed 587 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: and implemented on his plan, and it succeeded. From that perspective, 588 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: I think is down the road when that is applied 589 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: in the other direction. Uh, there may be a balancing 590 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,399 Speaker 1: of that view. But I think he's he's effective, he's intelligent. 591 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: He clearly has the trust and support of the vast 592 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 1: majority of his colleagues, particularly uh those his party has caucus, 593 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: the Republicans in the Senate. So we mentioned the little 594 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: social bubbles that have come up in terms of consumption 595 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: of news courtesy of social media. What do you think 596 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: the impact of a cable channel like Fox News has 597 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: been on the population and the politics in the United States. Well, 598 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,399 Speaker 1: it's had a profound effect, and the principal effect has 599 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: been to benefit those whose views are espoused on Fox News. Uh. 600 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: The reality is, of course, that they have been partisan 601 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: news outlets throughout our nation's history. One of the roughest 602 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: elections in American history was an eighteen hundred when the 603 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: two candidates were men who have become icons in American history. 604 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: John Adams was the incumbent, Thomas Jefferson was the challenger, 605 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: and they were what we would think of a Newspapers 606 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 1: that were very partisans said awful things about each candidate. 607 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: But then of course the news were they were rarely 608 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: read by few people. It was distant in time and place. 609 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: It did not have anywhere near the scope and power 610 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: of electronic media, the communication the radio that we're now 611 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: speaking over, the power of the television camera, which reaches 612 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: literally everybody in this country, and as we discussed earlier, 613 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: particularly in cable news, has the enormous effect of repetition 614 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 1: that drives home a point. Uh, if a politician makes 615 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 1: a mistake, now it isn't just reported and forgotten, it's 616 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: repeated thousands of times. So it's deeply embedded in the 617 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: minds and attitudes of the American people. And let me 618 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: just make one of the point. As humans, we have 619 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 1: two capacities that that are very very important in this discussion. 620 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: The first is there is almost no limit to the 621 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: human capacity to rationalize, to excuse behavior by those who 622 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: with whom I'm associated that we would never tolerate in 623 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: those on the other side. And then secondly, our minds 624 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 1: are wired in a way that we receive, well, retain, 625 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: and use information that is consistent with our own previous views. 626 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: But we have a hard wall that keeps out information 627 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: that is inconsistent with our prior beliefs. And so we 628 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: tend to receive information see gout and receive information that 629 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: confirms our views, and to repel and reject information to 630 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: the country. And you combine that with the immense, immense 631 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,760 Speaker 1: power of rationalization, and you have people in this country 632 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: today who not only support not only a silent about 633 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: but affirmatively speak out in behalf of actions that they 634 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: would never tolerate when performed by the other side. And 635 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: that goes both ways, of course. So one pundit has 636 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: gone so far as to say if there was a 637 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: Fox News type of an organization when Nixon was president, 638 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: he never would have had a step down after Watergate? 639 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: Is that overstating it? Or how influential is is an 640 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 1: entity like Fox News or maybe something like Sinclair broadcasting 641 00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: to the either local or national politics. It's in pospold 642 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:06,399 Speaker 1: to of course, either categorical acceptor eject a description like that. 643 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: But it is indisputable that Fox has enormous power and 644 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: that it is it has become a part of the 645 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,839 Speaker 1: Republican Party and a spokesman for the party, not just 646 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: announcing the views, but actually shaping the views and changing 647 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: the views. Just look at the policies or the Republican 648 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: Party on the issue of trade. For nearly a century, 649 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: Republicans have strongly advocated trade policies, very very pro open trade. 650 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: Board back and look at the votes in the House 651 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 1: of Representatives by Mike Pants when he was in the House, 652 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: by most of the top Republicans literally on a dime. 653 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: The policy has been completely reversed, and now you have 654 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: the most anti free trade president in modern era, strongly 655 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:11,839 Speaker 1: supported by Fox and by others in the Republican establishment, 656 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: whether within the party itself or those who support it. Now, 657 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: that happens on all sides in politics. I mean, I'm 658 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: a Democrat, but the fact is that a long time ago, 659 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: Democrats were the party of slavery, and the Civil War 660 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,719 Speaker 1: divided Democrats on the subject, while Republicans were created on 661 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: the abolition side. The two parties have completely shifted roles 662 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: on the on the dramatic and powerful issue of race. 663 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,360 Speaker 1: Over the past hundred and fifty years, shifted roles somewhat 664 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:51,280 Speaker 1: on trade, and so people change, individuals and political institutions. 665 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: But the power of electronic media has created a situation 666 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,359 Speaker 1: in our politics that enables people to more fully exercise 667 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: the natural rationalization that we all have and to justify policies. 668 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,919 Speaker 1: As I said, I'm repeating myself now that they would 669 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 1: not otherwise told Jimmy. Just give one example of that 670 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: right now. When President Obama said that he would be 671 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: willing to talk to other foreign leaders, there was an 672 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,200 Speaker 1: avalanche of criticism Cuba. I remember people went crazy over Cuba, 673 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,279 Speaker 1: and they specifically mentioned North Korea. You go back and 674 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: look at the old Fox News reports and Republican political leaders. 675 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: There was an avalanche of criticism that he would think 676 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 1: of talking to these terrible people. Well, now that Trump 677 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:50,920 Speaker 1: has done it, it's supportive, and of course it's truth 678 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: that the Democrats go through role reversals as well. I 679 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: don't mean to suggest that this is a one way 680 00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: street in American politics, but the combination of the power 681 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 1: or of electronic media, the human capacity for rationalization, our 682 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 1: closing our minds to different points of view. Personally, I 683 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: think it's unhealthy. One of the greatest things that happened 684 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,160 Speaker 1: to me as Senate majority leader was I had to listen. 685 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: I had to listen to points of view, many of 686 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: which I disagreed with, because I had to respect each 687 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,760 Speaker 1: senator as an individual who had his or her own views, 688 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: his or her own constituency. And I I've said many 689 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 1: times that the most effective way of leading is by listening. 690 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,040 Speaker 1: You get to know what people want, and then you 691 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: can act on that basis rather than acting on the 692 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 1: basis of what you think they might want. Quite quite fascinating. 693 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:52,040 Speaker 1: So there's two subjects I have to get to um 694 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,200 Speaker 1: before we get to our standard questions, one of immigration, 695 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,319 Speaker 1: but the other is much bigger. Let's talk a little bit, 696 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,439 Speaker 1: or maybe it's not bigger, but let's discuss what's going 697 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 1: on with the Muller investigation. Uh, you you were a 698 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,799 Speaker 1: majority leader during certain special Council appointment point theees, what 699 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 1: do you think about what's taking place with the issue 700 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 1: of of Russian interference with the election, the whole Muller investigation, 701 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 1: the witch hunt, the president saying you can pardon himself. 702 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: This has to strike you as somewhat bizarre compared to 703 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: what what you lived through, and you are sent a 704 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,279 Speaker 1: majority leader or am I ouvererstanding? It is this just 705 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,239 Speaker 1: par for the course? Well, it has been historically the 706 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: case that presidents who have been subject to independent investigations 707 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 1: have opposed those investigations, have sought to undermined them, have 708 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 1: sought to discredit them. Uh. And uh so that's what 709 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 1: President Trump is doing. That's what President Clinton tried to do. Uh. 710 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,440 Speaker 1: The fact is that, uh, Robert Mueller is a Republican. 711 00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,880 Speaker 1: He was appointed by Rod Rosenstein, who is a Republican, 712 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,440 Speaker 1: and who was appointed to his position by President Trump. 713 00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,439 Speaker 1: So it's a far stretch to suggest that it's a 714 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 1: partisan witch hunt when the two principal leaders, those conducting 715 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 1: and those supervising the investigation, are themselves lifelong Republicans. Uh. 716 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 1: I don't think they will succeed. I think it would 717 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: be a catastrophic error for the president to fire Muller, 718 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: although that appears to be at least from time to 719 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,040 Speaker 1: time under consideration. I also think it will be a 720 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:43,360 Speaker 1: catastrophic error for the president to refuse to honor a 721 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:49,000 Speaker 1: subpoena issued by the Muller investigation. If in fact, he 722 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 1: does not agree to testify, so I think he's got 723 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 1: a tough decision to make sometime in the next few months. Meantime, 724 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 1: I think Bob Mueller has demonstrated a degree of restraint. 725 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,239 Speaker 1: There are no leaks from his investigation, none whatsoever. It's 726 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: talking about discipline. He's played it straight. He has talented, 727 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:15,440 Speaker 1: able people uh working for him. We don't know what 728 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 1: the facts are because he has not disclosed them, and 729 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,200 Speaker 1: so it's premature for anyone to say, well, this hasn't 730 00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,600 Speaker 1: been proved or that hasn't been proved, because we don't know. 731 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: He's in the middle of an investigation. When he completes 732 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 1: his investigation and makes his views known, then we'll be 733 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,760 Speaker 1: able to make a judgment. I do want to say 734 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: that I believe that both President Obama and President Trump 735 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:47,759 Speaker 1: have not responded with sufficient vigor to the efforts by 736 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,359 Speaker 1: the Russian government to interfere in our democratic process and 737 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: to destabilize democracy. Is not just here, but in Europe 738 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,839 Speaker 1: and other places. As there's just a big report out 739 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:08,440 Speaker 1: this week that Russian intelligence officers and others seemingly interfered 740 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,520 Speaker 1: with the Brexit vote as well. Despite its possession of 741 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:18,600 Speaker 1: nuclear weapons, and it's having been a will superpower just 742 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,720 Speaker 1: a few decades ago, the Russian economy is actually quite small. 743 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,640 Speaker 1: It's less than half the size of California's economy. It 744 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,640 Speaker 1: doesn't even begin to approach ours. We should respect them, 745 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,560 Speaker 1: we should understand that they've been through a very difficult 746 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: period of what many of them regard its national humiliation 747 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,839 Speaker 1: by the loss of superpower status. But at the same time, 748 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: it's very clear that technology again has enabled them to 749 00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 1: conduct what is essentially cyber warfare on the United States, 750 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:59,600 Speaker 1: on democracy, on the Western European democracies, in a way 751 00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: that requires a vigorous response, and and I don't think 752 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 1: our government has made a response with sufficient vigor and 753 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:17,200 Speaker 1: force that we need. I think that was true of Obama, 754 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,720 Speaker 1: and I think that is obviously true of Trump, who 755 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:24,640 Speaker 1: makes excuses for Putin almost every day, repeats his admiration 756 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,120 Speaker 1: for him. Now he wants to meet with him, wants 757 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,520 Speaker 1: to talk with him in the light of the overwhelming 758 00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,360 Speaker 1: information that has been publicly disclosed about how Russia sought 759 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:39,560 Speaker 1: to interfere in our elections, So that that's a fascinating 760 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:44,280 Speaker 1: way to describe it. The pushback from the Obama supporters 761 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,360 Speaker 1: would be something like, well, we were in the middle 762 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,279 Speaker 1: of a presidential campaign and they didn't want to be 763 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,440 Speaker 1: accused of trying to interfere. Kind of a whimpy response 764 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,480 Speaker 1: if you asked me, or or at the very least 765 00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,040 Speaker 1: not robust enough to say, Hey, regardless of the outcome 766 00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,759 Speaker 1: of the election, we need to make sure that our 767 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,120 Speaker 1: process is safe and secure and has the confidence of 768 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:12,799 Speaker 1: the American people. What should Obama have done? The first time? 769 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 1: The National Security apparatus says, hey, we see the Russians 770 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:23,600 Speaker 1: are trying to cause ruckus here, either hacking actual voting 771 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,040 Speaker 1: equipment or their interference via social media. What should the 772 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,400 Speaker 1: Obama administration have done? Well, he did go to Putin 773 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,520 Speaker 1: and say personally and directly to him, cut it out. 774 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:40,000 Speaker 1: But in my judgment, while that was appropriate by itself, 775 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,360 Speaker 1: it was inadequate, and I believe that we should have 776 00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:48,799 Speaker 1: responded in kind to the Russians. We certainly have the 777 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 1: capacity to conduct such operations ourselves, and I think that 778 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,439 Speaker 1: you can't simply turn the other cheek into circumstance, so 779 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,640 Speaker 1: we simply issue warnings that you have to take action now, 780 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,160 Speaker 1: the President did say we will take action this President Obama. 781 00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,600 Speaker 1: Some of it will be public, some private. The problem 782 00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:15,120 Speaker 1: is nothing appeared publicly, and we don't know what happened privately. 783 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,960 Speaker 1: And if you don't do something publicly, then there's no 784 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,240 Speaker 1: way that the American people have to know that something 785 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:27,320 Speaker 1: is occurrent. President Trump, by contrast, has simply denied the 786 00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:32,399 Speaker 1: Russian activity, said he accepted Putin's uh words on this, 787 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:37,880 Speaker 1: and continues to praise President puter Now in his latest 788 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,520 Speaker 1: proposal to bring Russia back in to the G seven 789 00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,520 Speaker 1: and make it the G eight again, which, by the way, 790 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,320 Speaker 1: the rest of the other G six all were seemed 791 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,600 Speaker 1: to be a gas that well, with the exception of 792 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,040 Speaker 1: the new government in Italy. Yeah, and even walked that 793 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:59,560 Speaker 1: back yea, because they're trying to undermine those democracies as well. 794 00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,200 Speaker 1: In fact, the Russians are more concerned with the European 795 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,680 Speaker 1: democracy than they are with ours, because there were distant 796 00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,320 Speaker 1: from them, and they have always wanted a buffer state 797 00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,360 Speaker 1: on their western border, and they have memories of Napoleon's invasions, 798 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,320 Speaker 1: they have memories of Hitler's invasion. It's not a figment 799 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,399 Speaker 1: of their imagination. It's a reality, and so they want 800 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,040 Speaker 1: those buffer zones, even though the wars of the century 801 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,280 Speaker 1: would be very different from those of the twentieth century. 802 00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 1: None unless it's a human reaction, and so I think 803 00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,759 Speaker 1: what we needed to do is responding kind. This goes 804 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:38,480 Speaker 1: back to my argument about China and trade. The President 805 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:43,920 Speaker 1: Trump is correct when he says China is abusing the 806 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,960 Speaker 1: world trading system, of which they are now a party. 807 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:53,120 Speaker 1: The problem is the answer that he's chosen tariffs which 808 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,960 Speaker 1: are hitting our lies is the wrong response. It's as 809 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:02,640 Speaker 1: though after Pearl Harbor that we invaded Brazil. Uh. It's 810 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:07,200 Speaker 1: a misdirected response. The way to deal with intellectual property 811 00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:13,680 Speaker 1: actions abuse in China is to affect intellectual property here 812 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,279 Speaker 1: and elsewhere. In other words, make a response that's specific 813 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:22,080 Speaker 1: to the problem. If they are imposing restraints on let's 814 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:27,680 Speaker 1: say investments and by financial institutions, then we impose restraints 815 00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,719 Speaker 1: on their financial institutions. And as we've seen in the 816 00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,799 Speaker 1: case of the company ZTE, we have the power to 817 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:40,680 Speaker 1: affect Chinese economic activity. Z t E was going into 818 00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:46,680 Speaker 1: bankruptcy when we took the position that they couldn't be involved, 819 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:51,600 Speaker 1: American producers could not be involved with them, and incredibly enough, 820 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,480 Speaker 1: the President is now rescuing trying to rescue that company. 821 00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,799 Speaker 1: Even congressional Republicans are upset about that. Well, he said 822 00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,040 Speaker 1: he was going to save manufact action in jobs, and 823 00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,400 Speaker 1: he did. We just didn't realize in yes, I mean so, 824 00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:09,759 Speaker 1: so I don't disagree with this premise that that they're 825 00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,480 Speaker 1: they're doing things they should be doing, and we should 826 00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,799 Speaker 1: be responding to him. The problem is that the response 827 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:21,600 Speaker 1: is hurting our lies more than it's hurting them, and 828 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:26,440 Speaker 1: divides the West when we should be united to come 829 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:31,200 Speaker 1: up with the policy that is targeted, selective and confronts 830 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,640 Speaker 1: the Chinese in the areas where we believe the abuses 831 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,640 Speaker 1: are recurring. It is a confounding strategy, isn't it. We 832 00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,880 Speaker 1: look at it, There's never been anything like this as that, 833 00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:47,200 Speaker 1: and and it's it's based on the falsehood. I mean, 834 00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:52,480 Speaker 1: the President cites individual cases of high tariffs in Canada 835 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,200 Speaker 1: and Europe, but the reality is, according to all that 836 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,720 Speaker 1: I've read, is at the average level of terroiffs and 837 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,400 Speaker 1: NITA in the EU are about three and in the 838 00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,880 Speaker 1: United States they're a little less than that. So there 839 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:11,480 Speaker 1: are a relatively modest level of tariffs, although there are 840 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,400 Speaker 1: individual cases on all sides where they're very high, and 841 00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,160 Speaker 1: there's are slightly higher than ours, and it would be 842 00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,680 Speaker 1: I think a reasonable thing to expect that we could 843 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,840 Speaker 1: get parity even at that low level. But it certainly 844 00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:29,440 Speaker 1: doesn't justify the massive response that we're making now, in 845 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:34,200 Speaker 1: effect daring them to respond in kind, which they have 846 00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,320 Speaker 1: to do for their own domestic political reasons. The flip 847 00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:41,720 Speaker 1: side of that is some of our trade partners that 848 00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,400 Speaker 1: do have tariffs complain about our subsidies, especially in the 849 00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,160 Speaker 1: world of agriculture. Look at sugar, look at milk, look 850 00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:55,040 Speaker 1: at corn. We have massive subsidies that make it very 851 00:58:55,120 --> 00:59:00,000 Speaker 1: challenging for anybody else to compete with our products overseas. 852 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,520 Speaker 1: If we're going to have a whole conversation about tariffs 853 00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,320 Speaker 1: and trade wars, shouldn't all of this be on on 854 00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:13,640 Speaker 1: the table, very expensive subsidies to big agricultural producers. That's 855 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:19,600 Speaker 1: why we established the World Trade Organization with rules, procedures 856 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:25,800 Speaker 1: and dispute resolution mechanisms to deal with all of those issues. 857 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:31,240 Speaker 1: And what the President is doing is undermining the trading 858 00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,959 Speaker 1: system that the United States helped and lead the way 859 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:40,880 Speaker 1: to create. Let me take you back in history to 860 00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:46,560 Speaker 1: the very last days of December nine. The tide of 861 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:51,720 Speaker 1: the Second World War had just changed. Decisive Allied victories 862 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:56,280 Speaker 1: in Midway, in North Africa and in Stalingrad in November 863 00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:00,800 Speaker 1: of that year had marked the maximum expand by the 864 01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Axis powers, and so from then on their powers contracted. 865 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,480 Speaker 1: A small group of American officials went to London to 866 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,040 Speaker 1: meet secretly the British counterparts to begin to prepare for 867 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,840 Speaker 1: the massive reconstruction that they knew would be necessary when 868 01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:23,080 Speaker 1: the war ended. Their central goal was to establish a 869 01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:27,800 Speaker 1: World Trade Organization, because they believed that trade wars had 870 01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,120 Speaker 1: led to real wars. They believed that the protectionist reaction 871 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,640 Speaker 1: by the United States and other countries to the deep 872 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:40,120 Speaker 1: procession of the late nineteen twenties had pushed the world 873 01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,840 Speaker 1: into depression and had created the conditions that led to 874 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:50,240 Speaker 1: the rise of fascism in Europe. In particular Mussolini and Hitler, 875 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,280 Speaker 1: both of whom had made efforts to come to power. 876 01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,280 Speaker 1: Mussolini had achieved that had not in the early in 877 01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:02,560 Speaker 1: the very earliest years of nineteen twenty, and so that's 878 01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,960 Speaker 1: what led ultimately to the World Trade Organization. The treaty 879 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:10,240 Speaker 1: was signed in seven by fifty seven countries, but because 880 01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,920 Speaker 1: the Senate was controlled by Republicans as they disliked President Truman, 881 01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:19,960 Speaker 1: they wouldn't ratify the treaty. Forty five years later and 882 01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:25,000 Speaker 1: nine presidents having participated in negotiations, in the last legislative 883 01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:28,200 Speaker 1: act of my tenure Centi Majori leader, the Senate ratified 884 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:33,360 Speaker 1: the creation of the World Trade Organization. Now it made sense. 885 01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:38,800 Speaker 1: It has helped the United States achieve political, economic, military, 886 01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:43,480 Speaker 1: increasingly cultural dominance in the world. Of course, it's had 887 01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:48,080 Speaker 1: some cost to it, but American alliances with our allies 888 01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:53,120 Speaker 1: have not been harmful to American interests overall. On balance, 889 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,400 Speaker 1: they have been beneficial to us. That's my biggest disagreement 890 01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,720 Speaker 1: with President Trump. He says we're a piggy bank that 891 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,480 Speaker 1: every everybody robbed. He said, everybody takes advantage of us. 892 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,840 Speaker 1: But the fact is it's been mutual. We have derived 893 01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:14,200 Speaker 1: an enormous benefit from the creation of institutions from the 894 01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:18,280 Speaker 1: European Union, from NATO, from the World Bank, from the 895 01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:23,200 Speaker 1: United Nations. Although many in our country revive all these institutions. 896 01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:28,320 Speaker 1: If we think the world is unsafe, now, how unsafe 897 01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,080 Speaker 1: would it be if there was no European Union, if 898 01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,400 Speaker 1: there was no NATO, if there was no United Nations, 899 01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,760 Speaker 1: the dominant power of the United States would be called 900 01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:43,320 Speaker 1: upon to solve every problem alone, and it would be 901 01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:48,919 Speaker 1: a massive drain on our resources, military, political, economic, and other. 902 01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,960 Speaker 1: And so we have to do the enlightened thing, which 903 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:56,600 Speaker 1: is these are all human institutions, and therefore they are imperfect. 904 01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,440 Speaker 1: They all acquire bureaucracy and bad habits. We should do 905 01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:05,200 Speaker 1: all we can to streamline, improve them, to deal with 906 01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,280 Speaker 1: the problems that they have as they come up, but 907 01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:11,680 Speaker 1: not to abolish them, because we and others benefit from 908 01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:16,880 Speaker 1: their existence. Fascinating, fascinating stuff. Let's talk about another longstanding 909 01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,720 Speaker 1: policy that seems to be up in the air, and 910 01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:26,520 Speaker 1: that's the massive set of changes with US immigration. What 911 01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,520 Speaker 1: are we doing and what's the long term lasting effect 912 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,320 Speaker 1: from these uh, these big changes that are taking place. 913 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:39,120 Speaker 1: Everybody in America came from somewhere else. Human beings first 914 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,600 Speaker 1: appeared on Earth about three thousand years ago, and they 915 01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,120 Speaker 1: spread slowly around the globe. It was not until about 916 01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:51,160 Speaker 1: sixteen thousand years ago that humans first entered the American 917 01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:54,800 Speaker 1: continents by crossing the land Bridge over what is now 918 01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:59,440 Speaker 1: the Bearing straight into Alaska. Gradually, over the following six 919 01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,919 Speaker 1: and years, they spread slowly across north, Central and Latin 920 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,080 Speaker 1: America and became what we know as the Native Americans. 921 01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:12,280 Speaker 1: About five years ago, the Europeans came across the Atlantic 922 01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:20,840 Speaker 1: from Europe, and for centuries the British, the French, the Spanish, 923 01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:26,000 Speaker 1: the Dutch competed for control of North America among themselves 924 01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:30,960 Speaker 1: and with the Native Americans. Ultimately the British prevailed. The 925 01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:38,720 Speaker 1: United States was established. Later Canada was established as independent countries, 926 01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,919 Speaker 1: and the same followed over a longer period of time 927 01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:49,000 Speaker 1: in Central and Latin America. The negative attitudes of demonization, 928 01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,840 Speaker 1: of thinking of people as other was there from the beginning. 929 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:59,320 Speaker 1: The Spanish hated the French, the French hated the better British. 930 01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,440 Speaker 1: They all fought the Dutch Wall Street. The name comes 931 01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,400 Speaker 1: from the wall built there by the Dutch settlers who 932 01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,240 Speaker 1: settled New Amsterdam, and they were building it to protect 933 01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:14,600 Speaker 1: themselves against the British, not against the Native Americans. And 934 01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,080 Speaker 1: that persisted for a long time in our history. Now, 935 01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:23,960 Speaker 1: negative attitudes about quote others are a part of human history, 936 01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:28,880 Speaker 1: and it's existed in our country somewhat offset once our 937 01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,360 Speaker 1: country was created by the need for people to fill 938 01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:38,040 Speaker 1: this vast continent. But the first negative immigration laws were 939 01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:42,360 Speaker 1: not passed until America was a hundred years old. The 940 01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,959 Speaker 1: Chinese Exclusion Act passed in eighty two to keep out 941 01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,240 Speaker 1: Chinese because a lot of them had come to help 942 01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:52,560 Speaker 1: work on the Transcontinental River. Then they were more passed. 943 01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:59,400 Speaker 1: Now the truth is the reality. No reasonable American thinks 944 01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,000 Speaker 1: that we can back to the days of open immigration. 945 01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,120 Speaker 1: We can't let come into our country anybody who wants 946 01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,520 Speaker 1: to come. There are too many tens of millions of 947 01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,080 Speaker 1: people around the world who want to come, which is 948 01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,760 Speaker 1: flattering to us. Think about this for a fact, people 949 01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,080 Speaker 1: who say, well, China's the dominant rise in country. Have 950 01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:22,720 Speaker 1: you ever heard of anybody risking their life to break 951 01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:26,880 Speaker 1: into China? Only once two North Korean guys who had 952 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,240 Speaker 1: escaped from a concentration camp swam the river to China. Meanwhile, 953 01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,439 Speaker 1: tens of millions want to come here, and they want 954 01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,479 Speaker 1: to come here because they see freedom and opportunity. You've 955 01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,600 Speaker 1: never met or heard of an immigrant who said I 956 01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,720 Speaker 1: came to America because You've got the best cruise missiles. 957 01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,800 Speaker 1: They come here because they think we have freedom and opportunity. 958 01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:50,080 Speaker 1: So we need a balance. We need a rational system 959 01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:55,040 Speaker 1: for treating people fairly, living up the ideals of our country, 960 01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,480 Speaker 1: and to keep the benefits coming. Think about these facts. 961 01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:04,240 Speaker 1: In two thousand sixteen, seven Americans received Nobel Prizes. Six 962 01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,400 Speaker 1: of them were immigrants. Think about this fact. Three of 963 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:12,160 Speaker 1: the most successful companies in the world are Apple, Amazon, 964 01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:16,479 Speaker 1: and Google. Apple was created by Steve Jobs, whose father 965 01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,720 Speaker 1: was born in Syria. Amazon was created by Jeff Bezos, 966 01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:24,120 Speaker 1: whose adoptive father was born in Cuba, and one of 967 01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,720 Speaker 1: the co founders of Google was Sergey ben who himself 968 01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,920 Speaker 1: was born in Russia. Ask yourself, would we be a 969 01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,959 Speaker 1: better country if they had not been admitted? And ask 970 01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,400 Speaker 1: yourself also, what are the chances that if he'd lived 971 01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:40,880 Speaker 1: his life in Syria, Steve Jobs would have created Apple, 972 01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:44,760 Speaker 1: or Jeff Bezos in Cuba or Sir Gey Bryn in Russia. 973 01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:50,720 Speaker 1: Genius knows no language, no religion, no race. It can 974 01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,040 Speaker 1: be found wherever they're human beings. But it tends to 975 01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:58,600 Speaker 1: flourish where there's freedom and opportunity, and that's the United States. 976 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,920 Speaker 1: We let everybody in. So we need a rational, fair 977 01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:07,480 Speaker 1: system to bring people in. I don't object to the 978 01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,800 Speaker 1: President's stay saying we want to try to get people 979 01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:14,240 Speaker 1: with skills. Of course we should, but that should not 980 01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:18,680 Speaker 1: be used an excuse to eliminate immigration altogether, because you 981 01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,200 Speaker 1: never know what's coming in the second generation, as we 982 01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:26,000 Speaker 1: saw in the case of Steve Jobs and many many others. 983 01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,280 Speaker 1: My mother was an immigrant. She could not read or write. 984 01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,160 Speaker 1: She spent fifty years working in textile mills on the 985 01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:36,000 Speaker 1: night shift. My father was the offense son of him 986 01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,200 Speaker 1: because he had no education. He was a janitor at 987 01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,880 Speaker 1: a local school. So I, one generation removed, was lucky 988 01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:45,519 Speaker 1: to get an education and go on to become the 989 01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,599 Speaker 1: majority leader of the United States Senate. You don't know 990 01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,360 Speaker 1: now who among these people coming in possesses a spark 991 01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:56,280 Speaker 1: of genius, or whose child will possess a spark of genius. 992 01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:59,160 Speaker 1: Let me tell you what a story about a guy 993 01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:02,400 Speaker 1: named Ji Mitchell, not me, the guy I called the 994 01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,040 Speaker 1: real George Mitchell. It began in the hills of rural 995 01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,840 Speaker 1: Greece over a hundred years ago. There was a goat hurder, 996 01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:15,880 Speaker 1: a young guy, young man, a goat hurd named savas 997 01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:22,080 Speaker 1: Paris Givopolis. He wanted something better, so he came to America. 998 01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:24,640 Speaker 1: He got a job on the railroad. He was a 999 01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:26,840 Speaker 1: good worker. At the end of the first week when 1000 01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,439 Speaker 1: they paid him, the paymaster said to him, you're a 1001 01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:31,439 Speaker 1: good work if we want you to stay. But nobody 1002 01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,439 Speaker 1: can speller pronounced your name. You've got to change your name. 1003 01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:38,840 Speaker 1: So Sava said to the paymaster, what's your name. Paymaster 1004 01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:43,120 Speaker 1: was an Irish guy, said Mike Mitchell. Sava said, Okay, 1005 01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:46,000 Speaker 1: that's gonna be my name now, So Mike Mitchell. After 1006 01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:49,000 Speaker 1: he finished working on the railroad, moved to Galveston, Texas. 1007 01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:52,760 Speaker 1: He opened a shoe shine shop. He shined shoes for 1008 01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:56,519 Speaker 1: a living. He had a son he named but George Mitchell. 1009 01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:00,519 Speaker 1: The sun was smart, ambitious. He went to Texas a 1010 01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,320 Speaker 1: and m He got a degree in engineering. He then 1011 01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,599 Speaker 1: became an extremely wealthy person in New Oilyn gas industry, 1012 01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:12,080 Speaker 1: and he invented fracking, horizontal drilling, and those things that 1013 01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:15,280 Speaker 1: have resulted in the United States now being the largest 1014 01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:21,120 Speaker 1: energy producer in the world. The son of a goat 1015 01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:25,400 Speaker 1: hurder from the hills of Greece who changed his name 1016 01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:30,559 Speaker 1: because nobody could pronounce a smell less spellless name that's 1017 01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:34,080 Speaker 1: the story American. I'll say one thing to you. Long after, 1018 01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:37,400 Speaker 1: long after I've been forgotten, people will remember the man 1019 01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,120 Speaker 1: I call the real George Mitchell, because he changed the 1020 01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:43,200 Speaker 1: course of history. You can argue about the benefits of disadvantages. 1021 01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,840 Speaker 1: There's got to be their problems arrives with that. But 1022 01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:52,880 Speaker 1: eight American presidents promised to make America energy independent. Not 1023 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,920 Speaker 1: one of them could do it. But the son of 1024 01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,760 Speaker 1: an illiterate goat Hurder from the hills of Greece did 1025 01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,920 Speaker 1: what they couldn't do. The real George Mitchell made America 1026 01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:06,880 Speaker 1: energy independent. That that's an amazing story. So let's get 1027 01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:12,080 Speaker 1: to our favorite questions. So tell us about some of 1028 01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:16,599 Speaker 1: your favorite books. What do you enjoy reading fiction, nonfiction? What? What? 1029 01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,840 Speaker 1: What is your some of your favorite reading materials. One 1030 01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:22,680 Speaker 1: of the most influential persons in my life was my 1031 01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:28,240 Speaker 1: high school English teacher. I was a junior. It's a 1032 01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:33,639 Speaker 1: wonderful woman named Elviral Whitten. Posture straight as an arrow, 1033 01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:38,960 Speaker 1: diction perfect, one of the most brilliant kind women I've 1034 01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:41,960 Speaker 1: ever met. One day she called me in after school. 1035 01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,800 Speaker 1: She said, what do you read? And I didn't quite 1036 01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,360 Speaker 1: compihend the question, I said, what do you mean. You said, well, books, 1037 01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:52,479 Speaker 1: what books do you read? And I really didn't read 1038 01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:56,040 Speaker 1: anything other than what was needed for school. So she 1039 01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:58,760 Speaker 1: opened her desk, pulled out a book and handed it 1040 01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,280 Speaker 1: to me and said, I'd like you to read this 1041 01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,080 Speaker 1: and come back and tell me about it. She said, 1042 01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:05,920 Speaker 1: it won't want to fect your grade one way or 1043 01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:08,839 Speaker 1: the other, but I think you should start reading books. 1044 01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,920 Speaker 1: The book was a small one. It's called the novella 1045 01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,759 Speaker 1: The Moon Is Down By, written by John Steinbecker, story 1046 01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:21,599 Speaker 1: fictional account of the Nazi occupation uh in, Norway during 1047 01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,120 Speaker 1: the Second World War. I read it that night. I 1048 01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,599 Speaker 1: was fascinated. I took it back the next day because 1049 01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,400 Speaker 1: I loved her. I wanted to impress her, and so 1050 01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:31,280 Speaker 1: I gave a book report oral that's almost longer than 1051 01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:36,160 Speaker 1: the written book. She handed me another book. I read that. 1052 01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,280 Speaker 1: That took up my whole junior year, and at the 1053 01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,080 Speaker 1: end of the year she said to me, you're on 1054 01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,760 Speaker 1: your own. I want you to pick out the next 1055 01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,240 Speaker 1: book you're gonna What was the second book? The sacond 1056 01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:47,760 Speaker 1: book was called Parnassis on Wheels. It was a story 1057 01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:52,520 Speaker 1: about a mobile library. Quite an interesting story, actually, uh, 1058 01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:57,559 Speaker 1: and then everything I was. I felt badly when she 1059 01:12:57,960 --> 01:12:59,960 Speaker 1: said him on my own because I enjoyed my inner 1060 01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:01,800 Speaker 1: action with it. But I went to the library, the 1061 01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:05,040 Speaker 1: school library, the public library, and finally I kept trying 1062 01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:08,120 Speaker 1: to think, what would she think about this? I read 1063 01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:12,920 Speaker 1: three books called the Bounty Trilogy. Oh sure you need 1064 01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:15,639 Speaker 1: The Bounty is the first one, Men against the Sea 1065 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:17,880 Speaker 1: is the second one. In pitt Gairns Island is the 1066 01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:20,680 Speaker 1: third one. So to me, those are the most memorable 1067 01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:22,679 Speaker 1: books I've ever And of course I loved them. I 1068 01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,600 Speaker 1: couldn't get over, especially Men against the Sea, which is 1069 01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:30,040 Speaker 1: not widely known. It's a tremendous dramatic story human endurance 1070 01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,519 Speaker 1: and courage and strength. Uh. And then I started reading. 1071 01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:37,880 Speaker 1: And I've read mostly history since then, and that's pretty 1072 01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,280 Speaker 1: much what I read now. And I've had a good 1073 01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:46,080 Speaker 1: pleasure of meeting some terrific writers. Uh. I At a 1074 01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:49,200 Speaker 1: conference that I spoke at, I met Harlan Coben, who 1075 01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:51,679 Speaker 1: was one of the best known crime writers in the world. 1076 01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,360 Speaker 1: What what so you call a title of one of 1077 01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:58,439 Speaker 1: Harlan Cobn's books? Uh? God, she just had one stand up. 1078 01:13:58,479 --> 01:13:59,920 Speaker 1: I think it is a name that I'm not true, 1079 01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:01,920 Speaker 1: but he's just published on about two years ago. You 1080 01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,599 Speaker 1: mentioned Against the Sea, and I want to mention one 1081 01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:10,360 Speaker 1: other guy was a guy named uh Chris Uh. Oh God, 1082 01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:15,240 Speaker 1: I'm blanking on it now. Uh. He's a good friend. 1083 01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:19,280 Speaker 1: He's written several books. He wrote in the Garden of 1084 01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:24,559 Speaker 1: the Beasts about the rise the Nazi's Chris Larson. Also, 1085 01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:28,720 Speaker 1: I'm now reading his book about the sinking of the Lusitania. Uh. 1086 01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:32,639 Speaker 1: He's a He's a terrific, terrific writer and has become 1087 01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:36,439 Speaker 1: a good Chris Larson Eric Eric last I'm sorry, Yes, 1088 01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,559 Speaker 1: yes I got the last name. Not that, not that 1089 01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,800 Speaker 1: I remember it, but we were dead wake is that? Oh? 1090 01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:44,000 Speaker 1: He did Devil in the White City. My wife loved that. 1091 01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,720 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, he's a terrific to writer. Both of 1092 01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:50,320 Speaker 1: them great. I've written five books, but I'm an amateur. 1093 01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:52,920 Speaker 1: I think these guys are really professional. So another great, 1094 01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:56,160 Speaker 1: great friend who I've read all of his books, uh 1095 01:14:56,360 --> 01:15:00,840 Speaker 1: is Colin McCann. He's an Irish American, written great books. Uh, 1096 01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,719 Speaker 1: Let the great worlds, Let the world spin. He wrote 1097 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,439 Speaker 1: one called trans Atlantic in which he featured me. So 1098 01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:11,360 Speaker 1: how can I help? But liking him. Oh, he's got 1099 01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:13,759 Speaker 1: a run of a run of books. Let the Great World, 1100 01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:17,559 Speaker 1: Spin Dancer, trans Atlantic, the Book of men Um you 1101 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,200 Speaker 1: mentioned Against the Sea, and Endurance. Did you ever get 1102 01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:24,400 Speaker 1: around to reading the book Endurance about the Shackleford journey 1103 01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:29,960 Speaker 1: to Antarctica if you like those sort of just astonishing 1104 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:32,599 Speaker 1: what these people went through and how they managed to survive? 1105 01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:36,280 Speaker 1: Is that by Eric Larson Um Let me see who 1106 01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:39,200 Speaker 1: wrote that. There's a funny story to the book, because 1107 01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:41,880 Speaker 1: it kind of came and went in the fifties, and 1108 01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:46,599 Speaker 1: then it was reissued decades later and then suddenly became 1109 01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:52,479 Speaker 1: a suddenly became a best seller, like it just happened 1110 01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:57,759 Speaker 1: to be wrong time Um, Endurance, Shackleton's Incredible Voyage by 1111 01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,840 Speaker 1: Alfred Lanson. I don't know that. I've also read a 1112 01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:06,280 Speaker 1: great many books about the origins of human beings, the 1113 01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:09,880 Speaker 1: history of civilization, and so forth. I I like reading 1114 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:11,400 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. I read a lot of that. 1115 01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,760 Speaker 1: Any any titles you want to suggest, well, some my 1116 01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:16,679 Speaker 1: way out of date. As a young man, I read 1117 01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:20,960 Speaker 1: the entire I think it's about nine volume history Civilization 1118 01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:24,640 Speaker 1: by a man named Will Durant. Ariel Durant actually the 1119 01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:28,599 Speaker 1: best is the short version of all. The short version 1120 01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:30,920 Speaker 1: is called The Lessons of History. Yes, it's only about 1121 01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:35,080 Speaker 1: a hundred pages long. It's absolutely brilliant written years ago. Uh, 1122 01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,360 Speaker 1: there was a great professor first at Princeton, and he 1123 01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:41,599 Speaker 1: was at the University of California, Santa Cruz named Paige Smith. 1124 01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:46,519 Speaker 1: He wrote a two volume history of John Adams. Then 1125 01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,479 Speaker 1: he wrote about a A. I think it's about seven 1126 01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:52,920 Speaker 1: volumes of It's a social history of the United States, 1127 01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:57,720 Speaker 1: it's not a political history. Absolutely brilliantly written, fascinating. The 1128 01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:01,840 Speaker 1: single most interesting book I've ever read is his one 1129 01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,920 Speaker 1: of his volumes on the period of reconstruction in the 1130 01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,759 Speaker 1: United States following the Civil War, filled with information about 1131 01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:11,719 Speaker 1: I think most Americans aren't aware of of what happened 1132 01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:15,120 Speaker 1: during the period of reconstruction. Quite quite fascinating. And and 1133 01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:19,960 Speaker 1: our favorite final two questions. If a recent college grad 1134 01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:22,120 Speaker 1: came up to you and said, I'm interested in a 1135 01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:26,160 Speaker 1: career in public policy of government service, what sort of 1136 01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:30,479 Speaker 1: advice would you give them? I would encourage them. It's 1137 01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:34,040 Speaker 1: very tough, but it's by far the most rewarding thing 1138 01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:39,599 Speaker 1: I've ever done. I I believe that human beings are 1139 01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:47,600 Speaker 1: wired to seek what we define as success, wealth, the 1140 01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:55,479 Speaker 1: acquisition of property and other things, status, recognition. But the 1141 01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:59,400 Speaker 1: more of those things you get, the more you realize 1142 01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:03,680 Speaker 1: that in reality, life is a never ending search for respect, 1143 01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:08,519 Speaker 1: first and most important. Self respect hardest to get, most 1144 01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,880 Speaker 1: important than the respect of others, and I think the 1145 01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:15,080 Speaker 1: way you get them is by service to others. And 1146 01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:19,040 Speaker 1: I tell graduates all the time if you are lucky. 1147 01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:23,400 Speaker 1: If you are lucky, you will first succeed in what 1148 01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:27,080 Speaker 1: I would define as traditional terms, and then you will 1149 01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:30,360 Speaker 1: figure out that there's got to be more to life 1150 01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:34,160 Speaker 1: than this, and you will find in your life some 1151 01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:38,920 Speaker 1: objective that engages all of your physical and spiritual might, 1152 01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:42,679 Speaker 1: that is larger than your self interests, and that helps others. 1153 01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:47,240 Speaker 1: M quite fascinating. And our final question, what do you 1154 01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:52,000 Speaker 1: know about government and politics and public policy making today 1155 01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,080 Speaker 1: that you wish you knew when you began thirty or 1156 01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:57,920 Speaker 1: forty years ago. Every day of my life has been 1157 01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:01,920 Speaker 1: a learning experience. And I think the single greatest change 1158 01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:07,559 Speaker 1: in American attitudes that is required and that our leaders 1159 01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:12,680 Speaker 1: should be encouraging, is to end the notion that education 1160 01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:15,479 Speaker 1: begins when you end a kindergarten and ends when you 1161 01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:20,400 Speaker 1: graduate from high school of college. The explosion of knowledge, 1162 01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:27,520 Speaker 1: the advances of science and technology are overwhelming, and knowledge, 1163 01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:34,680 Speaker 1: its acquisition and use must be a lifelong experience. You 1164 01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:38,720 Speaker 1: can't think that you've ended your learning period when you 1165 01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:42,559 Speaker 1: got your degree. In fact, you're just beginning. You've got 1166 01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,840 Speaker 1: to keep up with it. And and that I think 1167 01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:50,280 Speaker 1: is so necessary in the age of technological change through 1168 01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:53,360 Speaker 1: which we're living. You can see it in ordinary life. 1169 01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,760 Speaker 1: I've finished with this humorous story. I have a son 1170 01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:59,920 Speaker 1: who's in college twenty years old, a daughter who's seventeen. 1171 01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,439 Speaker 1: I walked into the den about a year ago. My 1172 01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:09,000 Speaker 1: son has air plugs on the television. The television is 1173 01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,800 Speaker 1: on and his computer screen is on, and I said, 1174 01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:15,040 Speaker 1: what are you doing? He said, I'm studying. That's an 1175 01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:21,200 Speaker 1: example of listening to the airpugs, watching the working, watching television. 1176 01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,640 Speaker 1: You have to keep learning every people should think, ever, 1177 01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:27,439 Speaker 1: when you wake up every morning, what am I going 1178 01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:33,040 Speaker 1: to learn today? Absolutely fascinating. We have been speaking with 1179 01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:37,160 Speaker 1: Senator George Mitchell. UH. If you enjoy this conversation, well, 1180 01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:38,920 Speaker 1: then be sure and look up an intro down an 1181 01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:42,439 Speaker 1: inch on Apple iTunes, UH, and you could see any 1182 01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,519 Speaker 1: of the other two hundred plus conversations we've had. We 1183 01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:48,880 Speaker 1: love your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us at 1184 01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:52,439 Speaker 1: m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I would be 1185 01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,400 Speaker 1: remiss if I did not thank the crack staff who 1186 01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:59,000 Speaker 1: helps us put together these conversations each week. Um Medina 1187 01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:03,680 Speaker 1: Pomona is our producer, Slash audio engineer. Taylor Riggs is 1188 01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,679 Speaker 1: our booker. Michael bat Nick is our research director. I'm 1189 01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:11,280 Speaker 1: Barry Reholts. You've been listening to Master's in Business on 1190 01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:12,400 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio