1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death Presents External Exams with Nicole and Jemmy. 2 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, welcome the Mother Knows Death. On this week's 3 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: External Exam, we will be having our most requested guests, 4 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: my husband, doctor Gabriel, and Jemmy. Hi. Gabriel, welcome to 5 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: the show. Hi. 6 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: Hi, it's nice to be here. 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: Is it weird for me to call you Gabriel because 8 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever called you by your first 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: name in the past, only went in. 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: Trouble, right, It's the weirdest part is doctor, just don't 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: do that. 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: Well, we're so proud of your accomplishment. So let's start 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 2: off by talking about the awesome trip that we just took. 14 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 2: Why do you want to tell everyone why we drove 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: across the country for two weeks? 16 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: Well, there was supposed to be just to culminate at graduation, right, 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: Like that was the whole plan. Drive out and drive 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: back and and like ultimately go to Los Angeles and 19 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: graduate from school. But like, why do that without all 20 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: the awesome stuff? You know? 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was so much fun. So why don't you 22 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: tell everybody what you graduated from? Why? Why were we 23 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: going there? Where'd you go to school? 24 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: So I was in an educational doctorate program at USC 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: for organizational Change in leadership, sort of like the last 26 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: the last degree conferral in the like a ten year process. 27 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: There's a bachelor's in Public Safety administration, a master's in 28 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: Emergency and Disaster Management, and the organizational Change in Leadership. 29 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: So I just kind of like spread it out a 30 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: little bit, and that's all like a reflection of like 31 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: what I experienced at my job and what i'd like 32 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: to try to like think about. So yeah, it was 33 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: a program that I thought worked for me as a 34 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: professional with like a job and a family that I 35 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: could kind of do and then it just fit right, 36 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: like it was doable. I mean, it was hard as shit, 37 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: but it was it was doable. 38 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: So that's one thing that I wanted to talk to 39 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 2: you about, is when you go to school for something 40 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: that's really hard and vigorous like this. One of the 41 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 2: things that we always talk about as a couple is 42 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: how important it is for each other to support each 43 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: other and stuff we're seeing like all the time on 44 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: the news right now. You know, our daughters are like 45 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: major swifties, and all we hear about is Travis and Taylor, 46 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 2: and you see all these news stories about how they're 47 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: always supporting each other and going to each other's shows 48 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: and concerts and stuff, and they make such a big 49 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: deal about it news and I think it's so weird 50 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: because that's what you're supposed to do when you're in 51 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: a relationship with someone. 52 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like certainly it it's complex in a 53 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: different way maybe for the people you mentioned than it 54 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: is for us, but like like like being a normal 55 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: person right where like I'm not flying to your. 56 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: Engagement, You're definitely not a normal person, so just well 57 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 2: neither am I. 58 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: But you understand what I'm saying. It's just like it's home, 59 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: it's under one roof, and it's just like the understanding 60 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: of that, like I'm going to have to pick up 61 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: X amount of weight while this clown is kind of 62 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: like thinking or like sitting with these ideas over here, 63 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: like he's kind of unavailable for X amount of hours 64 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: a day or even years, right like, and like you've 65 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: got to to kind of know that going into it. 66 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: I swear I asked for permission to do it, right, like, 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: even even with it, just like you know, try to 68 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: be a gentleman about it, because like obviously it's going 69 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: to put a big strain on on anyone's relationship. I 70 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: would think, even in the way that like I, you know, 71 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: like kind of push education or like academia on the 72 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: guys I work with, and I will tell them, like, 73 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: you know, and you and I talk all the time about, oh, 74 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: like you're in a good position. You might not have children, 75 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: or like you have where we look at it, like 76 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: we have like all these other kind of responsibilities that 77 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: tend to along with the education aspect, so like and 78 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: everything that comes along with that, right, like mood swings, 79 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: being pissy, just being like fried emotionally or like mentally, 80 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: You've got to be ready to support that and kind 81 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: of like give somebody a wide berth and I, you know, 82 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: now maybe it's your turn. I'm going to push you 83 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: to go back. 84 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: So no, we always Well, let's let's talk about this 85 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: a little bit, because I think that I would consider 86 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 2: our relationship to be really good and strong now, but 87 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: it wasn't always like that. So let's let's go back 88 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: a little bit to when when we first met. Where 89 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: do where do we meet? We both have kind of 90 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: different stories about how. 91 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: That went down, but I mean there are different stories 92 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: but only mine's accurate. So yeah, I think if I 93 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: remember correctly, certainly the wahwah thing. But like I was 94 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: coming off shift and I lived not too far from one, 95 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: so I would typically stop there every day as I'm 96 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: coming out of work, coming out of the firehouse, like 97 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: a mess of like maybe not sleeping or whatever, like 98 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: ha been just gone fires or whatever, and and like 99 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: getting a coffee and then. 100 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: And then you saw me, and it was like slow 101 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 2: motion and you were like, there's the girl my dreams 102 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: in this giant like beam of light was over my head. 103 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's fairly accurate, except for like 104 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: what came. 105 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: All after that, except for none of it. 106 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: She might she might be the girl of my dreams, 107 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: but she's like a crazy person. 108 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: No. 109 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: But but so like my take on that is I 110 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: happen to just bullshit with you, like hey, uh, I 111 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: thought you had a ring on or something, and I 112 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: was just like, you have a sister or something like that, 113 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: like just trying to make small talk. 114 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I had my I had my key ring around 115 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 2: my hands because I was getting my cup of coffee, 116 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 2: and he thought it was a wedding ring. And then 117 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: he was like oh, are there any single girls like 118 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: you who aren't married? 119 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: No? You, it was something I have a sister, right, 120 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: like no. 121 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: But you said like are there any girls like you 122 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: that aren't married or something like that. Yeah. 123 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: So so there's the whole like I'm not married response, 124 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: and then I'm up against it like, oh, well, like 125 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: now I guess I'm I'm sort of like stuck here 126 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: with this conversation this guy. Yeah. So, so we bullshitted 127 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: in the store and that kind of like spilled out 128 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: into the parking lot, and then that became like a 129 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: normal occurrence. 130 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: Right. 131 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: It was like I would run into you there often. 132 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: I felt like, you know here. 133 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: Or there ye before every day exchanges. 134 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: So having said that every day bit, I'd be remiss 135 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: if I didn't bring in Maria's version of this. That 136 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: was more or less like you saw me one day 137 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: there that I didn't see you, and then like Maria 138 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: was rushed every morning trying to get to school and 139 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: like you were late to pick other people up and 140 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: you were this or that, like as you were stalking 141 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: me at the wah wah, like waiting for me to 142 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: show up and get coffee. Like that was That's like my. 143 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: Version I don't. I don't know if Maria ever collaborated 144 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: that story. 145 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: But well you don't on another podcast where like this 146 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: can kind of like go down a rabbit hole on 147 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: another thing or whatever. But like you asked Maria and 148 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: see what she says, and I'm going to be like 149 00:07:58,160 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm winning. 150 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: You have the story all wrong. Okay. So so the 151 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: first day that we met, we exchanged numbers that day actually, 152 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 2: and then we went out on a date a couple 153 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: of days later. You didn't have a cell phone yet, 154 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: so I called I had to call your house. Yeah, right, 155 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,679 Speaker 2: so I either had to call your house or email 156 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: you email. So we went and we went on our 157 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: first date, and if I thought it was pretty good. 158 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: We went out to dinner, and then you drove us 159 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: to Ocean City and and then we left and I 160 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 2: and we like had to make out sessh. And then 161 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this guy is awesome. I was 162 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: like s into him, and and then he, you know, 163 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 2: just started being weird for like the next forever. 164 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, but like till up until like right this very second, like. 165 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: For like three whole years, just terrible, just we just 166 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: couldn't get it together. 167 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I was plenty together, but like you 168 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: were in a big rush, like and I just was 169 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: on my own timeline and kind of like you can 170 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: even ask the cats at the firehouse, like, yeah, there's 171 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: a few I would even say out loud, like these 172 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: guys would hear me talk and be like, oh, this 173 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: girl's rad, Like I think she's solid or whatever, like 174 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: this could be it, Like I think I might have 175 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: found her, and like she's exactly it, but like she's 176 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: just in such a damn hurry to like you know, well. 177 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 2: If I was so rad, why why not harry? 178 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: Like because I just had like the terrible views on 179 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: on like long term permanency and marriage, I guess stemming 180 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: from my childhood. 181 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 2: But like, oh, but now that you're getting it out, 182 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: at least we know with the problem. Yeah, well but 183 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: it so it was. It was rough for a couple 184 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: of years. And that's one of the things that I 185 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: wanted to talk about, was I feel like, I mean 186 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 2: we've almost in July. We have met like sixteen years ago. 187 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: That was a long time ago, a long time ago, 188 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: and I think that it was a combination of like 189 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: me trying to rush you and you not communicating your 190 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: fears about things. That is why it took so long 191 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: for us to like jive. And then when we finally 192 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: communicated better and then we started really trusting each other, 193 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 2: like telling each other our like deepest darkest secrets and stuff, 194 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: that's when that's when things got really good between us. 195 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: But it took a long time to get to that 196 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 2: point for sure. 197 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: And you know, it's easy for me to think about 198 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: the idea of like mutual trust like in the firehouse 199 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: or on the fire ground or something like that, like, 200 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: but with the relationship, it just wasn't like it just 201 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: wasn't like something that I was really looking at or 202 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: like considering it all. So so like I feel like 203 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: once I sort of took the principles of that from work, 204 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: which is maybe reverse engineering it or whatever. But like 205 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: once you understand that concept and the team idea and trust, 206 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: like then it's sort of like all downhill from there, 207 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: I guess. 208 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that we that's our biggest thing 209 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: is that we work as a team. One of the 210 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 2: things that you always hear about your friends complaining and 211 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 2: stuff relationships is like this one does too much, this 212 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 2: one doesn't do enough. And you hear about like these 213 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: male female roles and stuff, and Gabe and I are 214 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 2: very like, like Gabe does all the laundry for our 215 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 2: entire house, all the kids, me, everybody. I don't even 216 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 2: really know how to work the washing machine, and I 217 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: mow the lawn. But then we also do very traditional 218 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 2: things like I cooked dinner every night and you I 219 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 2: refuse to take out the trash unless you're at work, 220 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 2: of course, but that's like not my job. So we 221 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 2: were very good with those sort of yeah. 222 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: I mean that the roles are sort of like it's 223 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: like the off sideline in soccer, right, like it floats, 224 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: like some days it's over here, some days it's over there, 225 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: and like I have no problem kind of like like 226 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: I think we just fell into roles like that where 227 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: it's like, okay, it's obvious that like Nicole doesn't like 228 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: to do laundry. 229 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: Right, So like wait, why was it obvious? 230 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: Well, because it just stacks off and then it's like, 231 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, and I know where this comes from, like 232 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: actually had to. I probably not blast mom, mom or whatever, 233 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: but you know how you two, you and Marie would 234 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: always go on these tangents about the towels, right, And 235 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: I used to think it was just so wild. I'm like, 236 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: why would there ever be like a stack? So she 237 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 1: tells me like and it was really interesting insight. She's like, oh, well, 238 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: we would just think that like it was one towel 239 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: per shower, like and we would just throw them on 240 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: the floor. And I'm thinking, like, well, that's what people do, 241 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: like at the Hampton, right, like you use it once 242 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: or you throw it down, and even the Hampton puts 243 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: the signs up like hey, so we don't have to 244 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: wash these repeatedly, like you know, you can dry this 245 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: and use it again. Like I just I had this 246 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: conversation with a towel with your middle child earlier. It's 247 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: like so I'm like, oh so so like she just 248 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: wants to stack it up and stack it up, and 249 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: like there's going to have this like made idea like 250 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: the maid will come and take care of it or 251 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: somebody else. So I'm just like I'm taking care of 252 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: that because if I don't, nobody's going to. And like 253 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: that's what I mean. It just sort of like it 254 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: becomes an understanding and like it's maybe not even verbal. 255 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: It's like a non verbal thing and you figure it 256 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: out and you just stort of like act accordingly. 257 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: It's kind of funny how a lot of the problems 258 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 2: that you have in your relationship as you get older 259 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 2: are kind of stemmed from things that you grew up 260 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: thinking was completely normal. 261 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: As I have so many problems. 262 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. But then when you really get to know 263 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 2: your partner and you get and you get to kind 264 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: of like dissect all that out and see like, well, 265 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 2: why are they doing that? Well, like you were just 266 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: describing with something simple like the towels, Like I don't know, 267 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 2: I just thought that was normal kind of you know, 268 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: I grew up like that. And and that's like when 269 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 2: people say that you can't change in relationships and stuff, 270 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 2: I totally disagree with that. 271 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: I do too, And I think that like and I'm 272 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: certainly no like relationship like guru or whatever, right, but 273 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: like I think the thing with it that I would 274 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: take away is like patience, right, Like you can't figure 275 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: that out if you're just like willing to call it 276 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: quits really quickly and be like you know what I'm 277 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: done here, Like this is bullshit. There's something that really 278 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: brought you to that person or kept you around that person, Like, 279 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: then you've got to just start like navigating the stuff 280 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: that you don't like. Just because you don't like X, 281 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: Y and Z doesn't necessarily mean that you need to 282 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: just call it quits, right, Like it's it takes work, 283 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: like and you need to develop an understanding, and if 284 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: you're like not spending time figuring that out and putting 285 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: the energy into it, then like you're you're not going 286 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: to get it back. 287 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 2: Right Like, Yeah, and that could be said about lots 288 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 2: of different aspects of life, like going to school and 289 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: quitting like things. 290 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: That's all connected. 291 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like anything that's hard you have to work 292 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: hard for, and a marriage is really hard work. I 293 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 2: feel like now it's a lot easier for us because 294 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 2: we kind of but I mean we've been together for. 295 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: I think it is a lot of time. And to 296 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: your point earlier, like it was very difficult at least 297 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: for me, and I'm sure I drove you mad, but 298 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: like for me personally, like it was hard because these 299 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: are concepts and like things where like I just I 300 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: never had that. There was never an example of that 301 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: from my from my end, you know what I mean. 302 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: My parents were divorced when I was very young, and 303 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: like it was just a constant battle between the two 304 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: of them, and like, so that's what I knew, right, 305 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: Like I didn't really know what the other side of 306 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: that looked like. So if you're going to ever figure 307 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: that out, you need to spend some time in that 308 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: box and like trust the other person and like kind 309 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: of get over yourself or whatever your weird ideas might 310 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: be of like what a relationship is or should be. 311 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: You know, if you don't know, you don't know. 312 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: And I think for anybody that's that's in a situation 313 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: where their partner grew up in a non traditional type 314 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: of home without that, it's it's very it's very hard 315 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: for me to think, like, if you don't one percent 316 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: trust like your parents, how could you really trust anyone 317 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: else in the world if your parents are your number 318 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: one right people that you're supposed to trust. And for me, 319 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 2: like I, you know, I grew up with my mom 320 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: and dad were always there and stuff, so it was 321 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: hard for me to grasp like why you were acting 322 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: in certain ways. And then once we kind of got 323 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 2: on board with that, I think it and and it 324 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 2: also helps us with our kids now, like what we 325 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: think is important for them, And the one of the 326 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: biggest things is that we don't want to fight in 327 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: front of them. We don't really fight because you just 328 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: know that I'm always right. 329 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: And. 330 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we don't. I mean you get you 331 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: get on my nerves for sure, and I get on 332 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 2: your nerves. 333 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: But I'm sure I get on everybody's right. Like I 334 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: have that shirt somewhere that says I'm not for everyone, 335 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: Like that's this is like very true, especially for you. 336 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: But like like the fun thing is like in a 337 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: way that you can leverage my job at least I 338 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: disappear for a shift, right, so like or if I 339 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: go work a mutually like whatever, like you'll get space. 340 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: So like even if we're heated about something or you're 341 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: super pissed, like you might give me the cold shoulder 342 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: for upwards of a week, but at some point, like 343 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: it works itself out, right, Yeah, I mean, I. 344 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: Mean we were just together for like three weeks and 345 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 2: it was kind of weird when you went to work. 346 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 2: I was like, well, this is weird. You were around 347 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: every single day, and it just it's just getting easier 348 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 2: as it does. We learn. 349 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: It's the one thing I would say, like, you know 350 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: you're young, you think you get a career and everything 351 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: just gets easier and you afford your bill whatever like. 352 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 2: It. 353 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: Like that's not true, Like things just keep getting more 354 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: and more complicated or harder and harder. But when you 355 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: do put the work in, I mean, the relationship itself, 356 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: I think has gotten easier and easier, and like you know, 357 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: and maybe some of the stuff that we'll discuss later 358 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: like sort of plays into this, but but we'll get 359 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: to that. I guess as far as like like jobs 360 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: and like professional life impacting, yeah, you know, the home life. 361 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: Well, let's talk a little bit about education, because you're 362 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 2: super into academia now and you just got your doctorate. 363 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 2: I'm super but you're but you you're you're forty eight 364 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 2: and just got your doctorate right now, So clearly you 365 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: had a huge life before being forty eight years old. 366 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 2: You're a little bit older than the traditional student that 367 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 2: goes right from high school. So let's talk about because 368 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 2: this is something that I think would be encouraging because 369 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 2: we have similar stories as to how we grew up 370 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: and we were kind of marked as being like the 371 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 2: dumb kid, and how we didn't really ever get pushed 372 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 2: to go to college. And that's partially because our parents 373 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 2: are from a blue collar background. And you know, my 374 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 2: dad was a mechanic. My mom stayed home with us 375 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: most of the time, and she didn't go to college 376 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: until we were much older. Your your mom was a 377 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 2: homemaker too, and then your dad was a fireman. So 378 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 2: let's talk about when when you went to school, Like, 379 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 2: you weren't really into school when you went to school, right, 380 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: grade school? 381 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 1: No, And they, like, to my father's credit, he worked 382 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: multiple side jobs, right, so my sister and I could 383 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: be afforded like a parochial school education, right, Like, they 384 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: understood the importance of education, while they might not have 385 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: understood the importance of like the things we already talked about, 386 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: like not fighting in front of it, like you know 387 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, but they did understand that to 388 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: some extent, at least in that it was like like 389 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: maybe the typical or the appropriately trending thing to do. 390 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of school. 391 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: Once I found a skateboard, Baseball went by the wayside, 392 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: soccer went by the wayside, and and then like largely 393 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: school or anything formal, right, like anybody telling me what 394 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: to do, like I mean, walking down Sass Street, I 395 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: think I might have been eleven years old. My father, 396 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: we took me, We parked, We parked our truck at 397 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: eleven's Philly fire department right there at South and whatever 398 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: ninth maybe, And like I'm walking down the street as 399 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: a very young kid, seeing people like sleeping in doorways 400 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: and like sort of with this punk rock haircut and everything, 401 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: I was just like, you know, the hell with every 402 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: single person's rules. I'm just you know, doing whatever I want, 403 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: which is like super liberating but also like really self 404 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: destructive and kind of like childish in a way. But 405 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: but like I got rooted in that, and and I'd 406 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: circle back that, you know, eventually with this conversation. But 407 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: I was happy to get out of school at eighteen. 408 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: It was like I barely graduated high school. I was 409 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: on the work release program. I got thrown out of 410 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: a parochial school in my junior year and went to 411 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: a public school, which probably helped me get a you know, 412 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: a high school diploma. And like my last year. The 413 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: only reason why I was able to pull that off 414 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: because I probably would have dropped out like a boatload 415 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: of my friends were doing and just you know, try 416 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: to get a GD if that. But I was in 417 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: a work release program. I went and I was a 418 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: sandwich artist, you know, at subway around the corner from 419 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: my home, and I did that, and doing that helped 420 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: keep me in school, but getting me out at like 421 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 1: noon every day where you know, I'd work a few 422 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: hours at the job and then I can get on 423 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: this skateboard and go like to Philly or whatever at skateboard. 424 00:21:55,040 --> 00:22:00,239 Speaker 1: So twenty years goes by before I even consum are 425 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: going back to school, right. I graduated high school in 426 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: ninety four and i'd start Newman I think in fourteen, 427 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. 428 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 2: So and what was like, do you know what the 429 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,239 Speaker 2: final thing was that was like I have to do 430 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 2: this now? Like what was the final push? Because we 431 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 2: always hear about even friends of ours and also just 432 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 2: people that message me on Instagram or people in the 433 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 2: grosser room that they'll just say, I really feel like 434 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: I want to do this, but they just they just 435 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 2: don't have that thing that like pushes them to start. 436 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'd consider myself to be like good at 437 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: like usually good at finishing things. I start right and 438 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: like once I'm interested in something, I'm as you will know, 439 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: I'm like I'm all in on something like whatever that 440 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: might be, even if it doesn't persist or last a 441 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: long time, like I'm still all in while I'm actually 442 00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: doing it. And so like the academic thing, it it 443 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: was maybe around twenty eleven, right, because like I said, 444 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: I started Newman in twenty fourteen, but I probably started 445 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 1: trying to go back to school sooner than that. So 446 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: and like here's a loose bid on it. The City 447 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: of Camden police department was being undone, so you get 448 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: you get the governory. He comes in, he slashes state aid, 449 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: so like the city and this is all very like summary, right, 450 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: the transitional aid from the state to the city is 451 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: like gone, like overnight, he shuts that off. And then 452 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: like so the city has to make up huge budget holes, right, 453 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: and like one of the ways they did that was 454 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: by lanoff firemen and demoting firemen and or firefighters, right, 455 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: and then they just completely disbanded like one hundred and 456 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: fifty year old police force. I don't know how old 457 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: they were at the time, but so the City of 458 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: Candon police goes away and then like the next day 459 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: it's Camden County Police. Right. So this is twenty eleven, 460 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: and you know, I remember thinking. There was a lot 461 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: of talk about like they're going to do that same 462 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: exact thing with the fire department, you know, and I'm 463 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: over here like I think everything's good. I'm like really 464 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: getting into my job. I think I'm good at it. 465 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: I enjoy doing it. I've taken tons and tons of 466 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: like classes for hands on stuff, very tactical based things 467 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: like learning how to do this or do that. And 468 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: it just got to the point where like, hey, if 469 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: they undid this fire department and like all of a sudden, 470 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: they're going to be a county model tomorrow. Like what 471 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: do I bring to the table, They're going to look 472 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: at me on paper and be like, yeah, Like who's 473 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: this cat? Like he nothing right, like barely graduated high school, 474 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: is like good at his job, but like he's a 475 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: sick time abuser, or he hasn't been around much, you 476 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Or he's just kind of like 477 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: this insubordinate punk rock kid, like with a bunch of tattoos. Right, 478 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: So so it was like a very deliberate move. I'm like, well, 479 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: I don't know that that's going to happen for sure 480 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: or not, but like let me kind of like dabble 481 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: with this, so I head towards you know, like what 482 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: most people in the fire service do. It was like 483 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,719 Speaker 1: in associates in fire science or something like that. So 484 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: I'm immediately disgruntled. While I try to do that. I 485 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: test into Candon County College and what do you know, 486 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: they won't even put me in college classes, right, Like 487 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: that wasn't unexpected on my part. But like I published 488 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: articles in like Fire Engineering and Urban Firefighter magazine, Like 489 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: I'm a published author in trade magazines, and you know, 490 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: Candon County told me I had to go to like 491 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: Writing Skills three or something instead of like college level courses, right, 492 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: But I wasn't deterred, Like, so I start with these 493 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: and then like at some point I promoted right now, 494 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 1: and I'm skipping forward some years is twenty fourteen, I 495 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: promote to captain and I get my first assignment as 496 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: Engine eleven. And my friend Max stops by the firehouse 497 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: and he's in Cohort one at Newman program, and he 498 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: basically explains to me, like how he got in and 499 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: how he took like is all this prerec stuff that 500 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: he like had been doing with hands on classes and 501 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: how they kind of like do that with the registrar 502 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: and they'd like convert you know, hours of education into 503 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: CEUs or whatever, and like I'm not going to go 504 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: into depth on that, but I basically went to Newman. 505 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: I met doctor Donnelley, and thank god, she kind of 506 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: explained it to me and then sent me like immediately 507 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: on the path home to like take these I had 508 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: like a three inch stack of stuff, right, like just 509 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: hours and hours and hundreds of hours of courses from 510 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: like you know, the State's task Force for the user 511 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: urban search and rescue work and like all the training 512 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: and all the hands on stuff you'd put in, and 513 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: they converted it and like I wound up being just 514 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: shy in ninety credits through their matrix to get into 515 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: that program. And so I did it, and then like 516 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: I had to acquire a few things like what do 517 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: they call that you might know? Is a clip? Does 518 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: sound right? Is that the word? Like to to get 519 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: like a couple of credits that I needed to like 520 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: meet the ninety I was like around eighty six or 521 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: something like with the way they converted it all, and 522 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: then so I I start that program and then it 523 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: was on like all of a sudden, I just found 524 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: this thing where I'm like, oh, man like, and that's 525 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: the difference in doing it as like a grown up, 526 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: right as you're not a child anymore. Like you're not 527 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: like being told to do this, Like it's intrinsic motivation 528 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: and it's steering you to like be the best version 529 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: of yourself. So it's not like and the sucks, I 530 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: gotta go here. All I want to do is wright 531 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: a skateboard. And now it's like no, Like, the stuff 532 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: I'm learning right now is helping me better be better 533 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: at work, like, and therefore I'm more affective with the 534 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: people I'm around, and I'm more effective with the civilians 535 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: in the city. Right, Like, it just it just starts 536 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: to grow, and like your mind expands and you just 537 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: start seeing things that were like completely lost to you, 538 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. 539 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel the same way. Like it's 540 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 2: you're doing something that you want to do, that you choose, 541 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 2: that you're interested in. You're just not reading some stupid 542 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 2: book because your teacher told you to. It's like all 543 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 2: it's all about what you want and the same exact thing, 544 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 2: like your your story could be the same as mine. 545 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 2: It's just like a different field. 546 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: That I want into Yeah, I don't think it is 547 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: too much different. And like, from an artistic standpoint, I 548 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: remember being turned on, like the one year we drove 549 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: my friend Matt and Kevin and Ryan we drove to 550 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: We started in San Diego and then headed up to 551 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: San Francisco. This is not ninety seven or something, but 552 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: it was all about skateboarding and Serge was with us, 553 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: and like, I started reading on the Road and I 554 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: was like, man like on the Road by Jack Harrowuth, 555 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm like. 556 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 2: Which I hate, I wasn't going to go there, but. 557 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: But like I'm like, man like, I had no idea 558 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: that that like writing a book or reading a book 559 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: could be like enjoyable like this, or could like make 560 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: you think about life or existence in like a in 561 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: a way you know, where where it was actually fun 562 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: or cool, you know. And that's I think just something 563 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,959 Speaker 1: that a lot of people miss because maybe it is 564 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: just because they're being told to do it, you know, 565 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: or it's just kind of thrust upon them whether they 566 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: like it or not, and until they find that one 567 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: thing that makes it all click, whatever that might be, 568 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: they miss they miss out on. 569 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: I do think that I've seen a difference with a 570 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 2: little bit of that with our kids going to school 571 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: now that they are a little bit more open to 572 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 2: them reading things that they're interested in and as well 573 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 2: as audio books are a big thing that they're okay with. 574 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 2: When when we were kids, remember it used to be 575 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 2: able to get like a book on tape right at 576 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 2: the library that was super frowned upon, like you were 577 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 2: not It was like cheating if you read a book 578 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 2: in that way. And now it's it's considered to be okay. 579 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 2: Because I'm more of an audio learner, as you know, 580 00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 2: It's very hard for me to sit down and read 581 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 2: a book, but I could listen to a book and 582 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: get a lot out of it. And it's cool at 583 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 2: least to see that the struggles that we went through, 584 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 2: maybe the kids are progressing a little bit now with it. 585 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think that would start with us 586 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: and them seeing us do it or at least talking 587 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: about it in a positive light, like I certainly never 588 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: like like that was not the case at my house 589 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: growing up as a kid. It was very you know, 590 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: autocratic and authoritative. Yeah, right, So, so I think the 591 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: example is obviously impacting them, like in a positive way. 592 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: But but I definitely would agree. I felt like an 593 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,959 Speaker 1: audiobook was cheating. I felt like it wasn't like if 594 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: you weren't sitting here stressing over the lines. And I'm like, 595 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: I'm the guy who would find himself having to read 596 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: the same page three times to comprehend it, right, And 597 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: that's like as I got more into education and understanding 598 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: how you know, people's cognitive abilities differ and like how 599 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,959 Speaker 1: you know even trauma can impact that. It's it's hell 600 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: to me understand that. Like, no, like audio books are great, 601 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: like and now I'm the quote unquote nerd who will 602 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: have the tangible book and listen to it on audible 603 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: and then like get the book and highlight the stuff, right, 604 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: So like I do it both ways. Like learning is 605 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: amazing and that like in a meta kind of way, 606 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: like if you learn how you learn personally, like you 607 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: can really make like like fire for effect at that point, 608 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: you know. 609 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and when we were kids, so it was just 610 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 2: like this is the way you learn. It doesn't matter 611 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 2: like if you feel this way or whatever, Like we 612 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 2: all just do one thing right, and it is changing. 613 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 2: It's not fast enough, but it is a little good. 614 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: It's not changing fast enough and it's largely still probably 615 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: counterproductive in a way. But but there's people who are 616 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: looking at that closely and doing a lot of really 617 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: awesome work that I doubt we have the time to 618 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,719 Speaker 1: get into here, but like you know, I'll digress all 619 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: day long, and I know, like Maria's got us on 620 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: a tight time schedule here. 621 00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: So this episode is brought to you by the Gross Room. 622 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 2: The Gross Room is on sal for only twenty dollars 623 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: for a whole year of gross and it ends on 624 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 2: Thursday nights, So you guys better make sure that you 625 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: get in at this awesome deal. And bonus, we're doing 626 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 2: a little giveaway, so anybody that joins during this sale 627 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 2: for a yearly membership will enter the chance to win 628 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 2: a signed book by you Adra Moter, enamel pin, and 629 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 2: some goodies from some of our sponsors. It's a pretty 630 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 2: awesome little care package. Yeah, and you guys should really 631 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 2: get in because the Gross Room is just the best 632 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: place on earth. We're in there every single day talking 633 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 2: to the members and just having really great conversation. This 634 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 2: week we were talking about different childhood injuries that you 635 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 2: have gotten, any kind of scary things that have happened 636 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 2: on road trips and some of our members have some 637 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 2: insane stories quickly do. It's really nice to talk to 638 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 2: people that have lived through stuff and have that outlet 639 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 2: where you can talk about this crazy stuff that happens 640 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 2: to you, where people are interested in what you have 641 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 2: to say of. The gross Room also has we have 642 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 2: thousands of videos, photos, and just articles, celebrity death dissections, 643 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 2: high profile death dissections. It's just it's a really awesome 644 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 2: place to be and especially if you're into this kind 645 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 2: of content. We cover everything, breaking news, we cover just 646 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 2: anything that you could be interested in with the human body. Yeah, 647 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: so visit the grossroom dot com now through May thirtieth 648 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 2: at eleven fifty nine pm EEST. Just sign up for 649 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 2: a yearly membership and that'll be your entry to get 650 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 2: the giveaway package. So we'll shoot you an email once 651 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 2: the giveaway is over and you can claim your prize. 652 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about Since you were just talking 653 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 2: about art and everything, I think that we're again in 654 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 2: a similar situation that we both consider ourselves to be 655 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 2: artists and very artistic people, but we have these professions 656 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 2: like I have pathology and the world of medicine. And 657 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 2: then you have firefighting, and both of those professions are 658 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 2: not traditionally one that an artist would have. So what 659 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 2: do you do to kind of like let out that outlet? 660 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: I get through it with like writing and decorating our 661 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 2: house and things like that, but like what do you 662 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 2: do to get that out? 663 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like all I really do for 664 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: an artistic outlet anymore is just photography. But at the 665 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: same time, I do write quite a bit, and it'll 666 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: be kind of fun to like not have to write 667 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: academically anymore and like kind of develop some other stuff 668 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: on my own that I that I'd prefer to do 669 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: rather than what I should be doing. But yeah, I mean, 670 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: like artistically speaking, I'm obviously preferring art over science all 671 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 1: day long. I'm sort of into that like lived experiences 672 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: kind of thing. And I don't know, it's like when 673 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: we met, I remember my basement had flowed, and like 674 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: I had like a large show's worth of stuff floating 675 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: around in my basement, and I, you know, all the 676 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: stuff that I was making at the time, not photography obviously, 677 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: but like I just was like, you know what, Like 678 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: I think I salvaged a few things out of that 679 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: and just kind of moved on from it, So like 680 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: that was an outlet that I wish I could have 681 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: kept all that and like worked harder sort of like 682 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: figure all that out, but like I just basically left 683 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: it there. It was like a really difficult time in 684 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: my life that I just I guess I had to 685 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: get over it, and I just sort of counted all 686 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: that art where that expression is like a casualty of 687 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: all that, like like we're hitting the reset button right now, 688 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: and like all this stuff is just going with it. 689 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: So basically it's just mostly photography now, but like obviously 690 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: there's other stuff I do. I like going out and 691 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: doing this and that. So that's the main thing. 692 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 2: I think. One thing that you might not even realize 693 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 2: is like it's the biggest art project that you've done 694 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 2: in the past couple of years, is what you've done 695 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 2: with your firehouse. 696 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I certainly would consider that in our project. 697 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,919 Speaker 1: Everybody that's stopped by friends of mine, but they're like, oh, 698 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: it's like a museum in here. 699 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 2: Whatever. 700 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: It's like I do rather, that's a large compliment for me. 701 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,359 Speaker 1: And that's just you know, once you get started on something, 702 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: you don't really realize like where it's headed or what 703 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: it's going. It's kind of just like this thing that 704 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: builds like daily and then there's like maybe lulls in 705 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: it and then like explosions where it's like it's like right, 706 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: And that's not obviously, that's not just me, Like there's 707 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: several people there that have like absolutely been all in 708 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: on that idea also, So I would never want to 709 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: claim that as my own, but like the firehouse itself 710 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: has been a bit of an artistic endeavor and sort 711 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: of release, and I think it's awesome, Like it's it's 712 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: a great place to go and work now. 713 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think just to explain to everybody what 714 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 2: I'm talking about, like the firehouse was just a regular 715 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,919 Speaker 2: old firehouse, not too many things hanging up, and now 716 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 2: it's he has collected all of these pics from guys 717 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 2: that work there over the years and they're hung up 718 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 2: all over the place. It's when you go visit now, 719 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 2: it's there's something to do there, a lot to do 720 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 2: to look and it's cool that you're bringing the history 721 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 2: of the firehouse back and it's kind of on display 722 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 2: in such a very visual appealing thing to look at. 723 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 2: It looks awesome. 724 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: There Yeah, I just think a lot of that was 725 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 1: kind of missing. And you know, again with the whole 726 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: thing we're speaking about on like letting the other side 727 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: of your relationship kind of go and like find these things, right, 728 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 1: like like how many hours did I go to city 729 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: Hall and like pull up a journal and like have 730 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: to read through it for hours to find like the 731 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: one thing that I needed to do like a project, Right, 732 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: So that maybe kind of plays into the relationship thing 733 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,839 Speaker 1: also that we were talking about earlier. But it's been 734 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: really cool and I dig it, and I and hopefully 735 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,839 Speaker 1: everybody else that works there kind of digs it too. 736 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: So that's like the benefit of it is that we 737 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: all do it together. Everybody's tracking it. They're all very 738 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: aware of our history and like what it means, and 739 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: like it actually has a really positive impact when we 740 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: go out on the street and do things. So it's 741 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: like it looks cool, but it also has like a 742 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: very sort of tangible byproduct. 743 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 2: One of the things that we have in common, which 744 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 2: you wouldn't necessarily think we would because we have two 745 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 2: separate professions. But you see a lot of dead people 746 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 2: at your job, and so do I obviously, so it's 747 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 2: something that we can talk about. I think that maybe 748 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 2: for an average fireman that's just married to someone that 749 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 2: maybe isn't in a kind of field like mine, it's 750 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 2: not something that they can go home and discuss like, oh, 751 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 2: I found this decomposed guy floating in the river kind 752 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,439 Speaker 2: of thing and describing the smell and everything, whereas I'm 753 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 2: like giving me more details I wanted to do. I 754 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 2: want to know, so what kind of effect does it 755 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 2: has to have some kind of effect on you seeing 756 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,439 Speaker 2: people in their worst situations. 757 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: Not to cut you off, but I would make a 758 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: couple of points on there, and like you know, unfortunately 759 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: the fire service is sort of stuck in some old ways, 760 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: at least from my perspective. Sometimes that the idea that 761 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: like I would protect my family from like what I'm 762 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: seeing and doing and like not telling them about it, 763 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: I think is like the old idea of you don't 764 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: need to know that, and like I got that, and 765 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: I'm going to put that on my shoulders and just 766 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: carry that weight and like kind of keep you ignorant 767 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: to it, like deliberately, you know what I'm saying, Like 768 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 1: you don't need to know. 769 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 2: That, you don't write, which I know I know that 770 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 2: there's some environment that do that. 771 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: And a friend of mine had recently mentioned, like, you know, 772 00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: a family problem where they were sort of being told 773 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: by their partner that they've changed and this and then 774 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: and I mean, like, look, it's it's not it's not 775 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: an easy thing to do or to deal with all 776 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: the time, and it's I would imagine pretty different for 777 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: every person to manage that. And it's not just that 778 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: like maybe one of those things is just like the 779 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: last straw, because something else in my life is like 780 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: a really like a challenge, like and like to go 781 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,839 Speaker 1: back to what I was saying when I was having 782 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: the problems when I you know what, it's a seven 783 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: two thousand and six seven, you know, family deaths or 784 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: people going away from your life, whether that was like 785 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: you know, a parent or a grandmom or a girlfriend, 786 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,760 Speaker 1: whatever it might be. You know, and then that also 787 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: has an impact. So like if you're kind of like 788 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,800 Speaker 1: already sort of down and then like you go to 789 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: work and have to deal with something like it just 790 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: it will quickly kind of like build, you know what 791 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: I mean, and like kind of cascade into this thing 792 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: that you can't get out from under, if that makes sense, 793 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 1: and to go back to the art thing. I remember 794 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: I had this my friend Dennis McGrath who brought me 795 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: to Ed Templeton's house, and I remember talking with Ed 796 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: and he was like we were talking about photography, you know, 797 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 1: and he's like I was, you know, I'm like trying 798 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,800 Speaker 1: to explain it to him, who like how I would delineate, 799 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: like I try to keep my art and my career separate, 800 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: you know, And he was just like, well, like, why 801 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: would you do that? It seems like you're in a 802 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: great place to make art, you know. And it was 803 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: like it was the conversation that I needed to sort 804 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: of realize that I could combine these passions of mine 805 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: and sort of like get better at each, you know, 806 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: like it wasn't like this crazy buying, you know, a 807 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: binary thing. So so I had that conversation and then 808 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: it was like that actually started helping me. I want 809 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: to say that was in twenty eleven ish. It helped 810 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: me just kind of understand not just like myself, but 811 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: like my surrounding environment and how those things were going 812 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: to impact other people. And to circle back to what 813 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: I was saying about, you know, trying to keep things 814 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: separate and this idea that the fire service would just 815 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 1: be like we're just going to hold that in. Like 816 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,760 Speaker 1: I feel like it's like an antiquated idea of keeping 817 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 1: things secret from like your spouse or your partner or 818 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: your children. Like maybe the children I would still you know, 819 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: they don't need to know. 820 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think sometimes we're talking and I'm. 821 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: Like, yeah, for sure, and and I'm just kind of 822 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: like at this point, like I've kind of become an 823 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,760 Speaker 1: open book, so like I don't want to hide anything, 824 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: but the idea that we would protect our spouse or 825 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: our significant others from like what we're doing at work 826 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: is not helpful. Like it's just it's like it's a 827 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: really bad idea. I think if you're going to like 828 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: just keep that bottled up and somehow like try to 829 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: not have your partner be a part of that, and 830 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: and like like to your to your point, it was 831 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 1: kind of almost not fun, but like it was different 832 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,479 Speaker 1: to be able to discuss that with you and open 833 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 1: up about it, you know, because not only did you 834 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: have like a firm understanding of like you know, the 835 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: forensic aspect of it or whatever was happening, you know, 836 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: to the body or whatever else, but like you were 837 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: just a good listener, and I feel like to talking 838 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,800 Speaker 1: about that or getting it out or getting it off of, 839 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, my shoulder, so to speak, it was just 840 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: super helpful to help me, not like you know, crawl 841 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: into a bottle over it or like dwell on it 842 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: to the point where it was like debilitating. 843 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you've had a couple instances of like really 844 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 2: terrible things happening at work or even with people you know, 845 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 2: maybe at other jobs. Yeah, just because even though you 846 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,319 Speaker 2: don't necessarily work in the same city as some of 847 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 2: these firemen, it's you're you're all kind of a big 848 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 2: family and you all know each other, and it's a lot. Yeah. 849 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 1: I mean, like like I've learned that a network is 850 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,240 Speaker 1: like really important, and I don't mean that in like 851 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: like like a very sterile Like I've got a lot 852 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: of good friends and other jobs, right, And then like 853 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: if you're close with other people and they're experiencing things 854 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: at their job that aren't you know, always going to 855 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: be good, you can also have those conversations with them 856 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: and sort of like help each other work their way 857 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: through that. So obviously, like the bigger your network kind 858 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,439 Speaker 1: of gets, the more susceptible to those kinds of things 859 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 1: you sort of become, especially when they're professionals and other 860 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: fire departments that are busy going to fires or whatever. 861 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: That might be New York City, it might be Baltimore 862 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: or something like that, Philadelphia right over the bridge here. 863 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 1: You have friends in these places and then like you 864 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 1: see something terrible happening on the news, or like we're 865 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: pretty quick with the phone and everything is so immediate, 866 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: like you'll get a text, or like you might even 867 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: be in an area where like even last fall, I 868 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: was at an event and guy was there one minute 869 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,359 Speaker 1: and then a few hours later he's running a job 870 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: or fireman or are losing their lives. So the more 871 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,280 Speaker 1: people you meet and the bigger you grow a network 872 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: or like have friends in these places, like the more 873 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: susceptible you are to that, which is you know, a 874 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: good and a bad thing. You know, But at the 875 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: end of the day, all you can do is kind 876 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,439 Speaker 1: of like be there for your friends and help try 877 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: to get them through it. 878 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 2: I know you've had a couple of situations with kids 879 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 2: involved in these fires that you go to and stuff for. 880 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 2: Do you think that they're like the hardest ones especially 881 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:39,720 Speaker 2: with with having little kids. I specifically remember one probably 882 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 2: the one that I would think you would have you 883 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,799 Speaker 2: had the hardest time with when when our kids were 884 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:44,479 Speaker 2: around the same. 885 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, you never, kids are always the worst. And I 886 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,799 Speaker 1: can't imagine or be a firefighter anywhere who wouldn't tell 887 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: you that, especially once you had their own children. But 888 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,879 Speaker 1: I think when they're there same age as your kids, 889 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: it certainly hits home a little differently. And then when 890 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,800 Speaker 1: when it was your job to prevent that from happening, 891 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:13,880 Speaker 1: you know, that gets a little harder, like a harder 892 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 1: pill to swallow, because you know, you're you're the you're 893 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: the guy, right like you're the person in those places 894 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: who are supposed to prevent that or stop that or 895 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, alter that course. And when you can't, it's 896 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: just like it can be devastating on multiple fronts, you know. 897 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it's never good to crawl into it, 898 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: like a really high heat love his situation, or a 899 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: high heat like fire condition and like see it, you know, 900 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: a kid the same age as your kids, like like expired. 901 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: You know, so that that's never easy to deal with, 902 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 1: and and you know it's it's adults aren't easier per se. 903 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: It's it's maybe just like one less aspect that you 904 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: that you would be able to kind of you know, 905 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,400 Speaker 1: like at least they were, you know, a little older, 906 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,800 Speaker 1: they had lived their lives. They were able to grow 907 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: up and like enjoy lives or have their own children. 908 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: Right like when you're a kid, you just you didn't 909 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 1: get you didn't get a chance to like to live 910 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,760 Speaker 1: or experience life. Yeah, it's tough. 911 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,240 Speaker 2: I think that's why it's important that you can talk 912 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 2: to your family about that, because I know that some 913 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 2: fire departments like offer help for things like that, but 914 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,840 Speaker 2: especially when you were going through that, Like I remember, 915 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,279 Speaker 2: we had to talk about it a lot, because it's 916 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,160 Speaker 2: just it's not something like you come home from work 917 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 2: and talk about over coffee and it's done with. It's 918 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 2: like nah, it takes months and years even to just 919 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,839 Speaker 2: really be able to move on from something like that. 920 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, And like I mean, collectively, the fire service I 921 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 1: think has gotten quite a bit better at this, the 922 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: amount of resources and the idea that that like that 923 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,920 Speaker 1: they need help because it's just like a relatively new thing. 924 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,040 Speaker 1: It sounds kind of crazy, but it's like a new thing. 925 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, like we need help, right, like and 926 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,279 Speaker 1: and again going back to like you're the people who 927 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: deliver the help, Like they call you when they're having 928 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 1: their worst day, and then you go and solve that problem. 929 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,239 Speaker 1: So so that's one of the reasons why I think 930 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 1: firefighters struggle with it so much. And it might just 931 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,920 Speaker 1: be one thing, like like maybe not everybody's working in 932 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: like a really busy shop, but like in the course 933 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 1: of a career, the one thing might be what undoes 934 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 1: your entire career. Like, so so collectively, like I said, 935 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,839 Speaker 1: there's there's much better resources and much better awareness around it. 936 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,880 Speaker 1: I don't know that I would one hundred percent agree 937 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: with all of it. Also, like I feel like there's 938 00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,399 Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of like an enabling aspect that 939 00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:00,960 Speaker 1: like isn't probably something we would get into in this realm, 940 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:06,319 Speaker 1: but like I feel we're getting better at recognizing it 941 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,280 Speaker 1: and sort of supporting one another and kind of getting 942 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,960 Speaker 1: past this like machismo bullshit. Yeah, that sort of perpetuates 943 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,319 Speaker 1: this idea that like you can't talk about it or 944 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:16,880 Speaker 1: you you know. 945 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, And like as with anything, there's going to be 946 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,520 Speaker 2: people that legitimately need it, and then people that abuse 947 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,319 Speaker 2: the system. So like that's just inevitably going to happen, 948 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:28,080 Speaker 2: because it happens. 949 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, the fire service is certainly no different than than 950 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 1: I mean, we're all human beings, right, So like that's 951 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,440 Speaker 1: not it. That's not like a firefighter thing, that's just 952 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:36,360 Speaker 1: human nature. 953 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there just has to be like a certain 954 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,720 Speaker 2: level of like resilience you build up towards certain things. 955 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,919 Speaker 2: You can't just be coddled over every single right thing 956 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:47,800 Speaker 2: that happens. 957 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,400 Speaker 1: I mean personally, I'm personally, I'm way more interested in 958 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:56,080 Speaker 1: post traumatic growth and you know, yeah PTSD per se, 959 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 1: and that's like maybe a new concept for some people, 960 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,839 Speaker 1: but that's, in my opinion, the direction we should maybe 961 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,799 Speaker 1: be moving in more so than helping everybody think that 962 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 1: they're messed up and they have every right to be 963 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,840 Speaker 1: messed up. And like you know, when you lead people 964 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:16,439 Speaker 1: to that, you're certainly not leading them to answers right 965 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:17,480 Speaker 1: or to getting better. 966 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like well, okay, yes we can recognize 967 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,359 Speaker 2: this happened to you, but like now, what what are 968 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:24,120 Speaker 2: you going to do with that? 969 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: Yeah? Or more importantly, like put the front end in, 970 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,279 Speaker 1: put the front end work in, right, so that like 971 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:34,399 Speaker 1: this is like the left of bang thing for us, 972 00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:39,360 Speaker 1: like get ahead of it before it happens, because like 973 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: this is what happens at my job, right, Like it's 974 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,799 Speaker 1: not an unknown. So I think we need to get 975 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,839 Speaker 1: better at sort of being ahead of it. 976 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,960 Speaker 2: One thing that is really weird about being married and 977 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,160 Speaker 2: being with you for sixteen years is that I see 978 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 2: you every single day and like I can't I don't 979 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 2: like ever look at you and say, oh, you look old. 980 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,239 Speaker 2: You look like you're getting old, right, I mean I don't, 981 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,279 Speaker 2: I don't eat at all, but I'm just talking about 982 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,359 Speaker 2: you here, baby. But I feel but then like I'll 983 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 2: look at pictures of the girls, even from when they 984 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,240 Speaker 2: were babies, and then I say, like, okay, Gabe looks 985 00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,959 Speaker 2: like he's getting older just by looking at pictures you. 986 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,960 Speaker 2: Your hair was darker and you just like look different. Right. 987 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,520 Speaker 2: But one thing I definitely have noticed is you have 988 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,360 Speaker 2: changed so much since I met you. Just even talking 989 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,480 Speaker 2: about when I met you, it's just like I'm like, 990 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,799 Speaker 2: I like you so much more now than I did then. 991 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,600 Speaker 2: Like I was more like when I met you, I 992 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,160 Speaker 2: was just more like like that lust thing, you know, 993 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,840 Speaker 2: just like very like attracted to you and stuff but 994 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,840 Speaker 2: now it's just like you're just I just love you 995 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,280 Speaker 2: so much, like as a friend and as a person 996 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,880 Speaker 2: more because you're just like so much more of a 997 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,359 Speaker 2: decent human being than you were when I met you. 998 00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 2: But yeah, I just so. One of my questions is 999 00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,600 Speaker 2: from you know, twenty four year old Gabe that started 1000 00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:07,799 Speaker 2: the fire department in nineteen ninety nine to almost forty nine, 1001 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,680 Speaker 2: I say, almost fifty year old Gabe, is you know 1002 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,520 Speaker 2: you're you've been you're almost ready. I mean technically you're 1003 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:20,239 Speaker 2: eligible to retire really Soonmber, So what how what have 1004 00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,480 Speaker 2: how have you changed in the fire department, Because I 1005 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,680 Speaker 2: don't know how much you really want to speak about that, 1006 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:30,120 Speaker 2: like what you used to do and what you people 1007 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,120 Speaker 2: thought of you, and how much you've progressed over the 1008 00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,279 Speaker 2: past twenty five years. You know. 1009 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,800 Speaker 1: It's it's it's funny because every so often, like somebody 1010 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,360 Speaker 1: who who I work with daily will hear a story 1011 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,879 Speaker 1: about me or something from somebody from like twenty years ago, right, 1012 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,680 Speaker 1: But like the thing I take from that is that 1013 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,719 Speaker 1: that person doesn't know who I am to this day, right, 1014 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,520 Speaker 1: Like they don't they don't we don't talk often. They 1015 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,960 Speaker 1: don't know what work I've put in or how much 1016 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,319 Speaker 1: I've changed or grown so so like to them, I'm 1017 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:06,720 Speaker 1: very much still you know, the guy from two thousand 1018 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,600 Speaker 1: and two, right, and. 1019 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,720 Speaker 2: You're you're there's no trace of that in you anymore. 1020 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,960 Speaker 1: I wouldn't, I wouldn't go quite that far. Every so 1021 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 1: often that will that. 1022 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,799 Speaker 2: Will well yeah, yeah, when you like, I. 1023 00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,760 Speaker 1: Don't do that much around here, but at work, maybe 1024 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: that comes out a little bit more than it does 1025 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,399 Speaker 1: on the home front. But largely you're accurate, like it's 1026 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,200 Speaker 1: not that's like not a thing anymore because it's like 1027 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,720 Speaker 1: and ever so often I'm like wait, like like bro stop, 1028 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,080 Speaker 1: like that's not you anymore. You don't need to like 1029 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:40,000 Speaker 1: do that. So even if it's like highly effective in 1030 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,160 Speaker 1: some certain you know, kind of circumstances. 1031 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,440 Speaker 2: Well, it shines through with how you raise your children 1032 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,560 Speaker 2: sometimes well, the immaturity and the teaching them the burp 1033 00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,080 Speaker 2: and like spitballs in the restaurant. 1034 00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:55,800 Speaker 1: Fun, right, that's fun. Yeah, And at some point hopefully 1035 00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,799 Speaker 1: they'll realize that, like they you know, that he's kind 1036 00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,319 Speaker 1: of a clown for like letting me carry on like this. 1037 00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:07,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel like I've certainly put the work 1038 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,440 Speaker 1: in and and the biggest I guess the biggest aspect 1039 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,920 Speaker 1: of that holds it like you have to recognize it. 1040 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,239 Speaker 1: And I'd say, like that's where you obviously would come in, 1041 00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,160 Speaker 1: because like if you if you're not being held accountable 1042 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,520 Speaker 1: or like nobody's like having like an honest conversation with you, 1043 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,640 Speaker 1: then you're never even going to realize that like your 1044 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,160 Speaker 1: behavior is not right, like right, like if that's using 1045 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: people or like just like being nonchalant about like relationships, 1046 00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,279 Speaker 1: you know, or whatever it might be. And that's where 1047 00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:41,799 Speaker 1: mentorship comes in, and like kind of kind of like 1048 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,719 Speaker 1: getting what you need from people, and you have to 1049 00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,879 Speaker 1: you have to realize that this is a problem or 1050 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,240 Speaker 1: have identified it before you can sort of like seek 1051 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:54,839 Speaker 1: out like the appropriate help. Right if you're if you're 1052 00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,160 Speaker 1: gonna if you're going to be a better person or 1053 00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,279 Speaker 1: the best version of yourself, you know you need examples, right, 1054 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,960 Speaker 1: Like you need people to aspire to be or like 1055 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,760 Speaker 1: people that you can kind of look up to and emulate, 1056 00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:14,400 Speaker 1: and and like that might that might mean like not 1057 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:18,239 Speaker 1: not having relationships with people that you know are no 1058 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,920 Speaker 1: good for you, or or like not cutting people out 1059 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:23,680 Speaker 1: of your life, but just kind of like not putting 1060 00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,799 Speaker 1: as much stock or time and energy into right like 1061 00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,600 Speaker 1: I can't support people who aren't going to support me, 1062 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,920 Speaker 1: or I can't I can't go and do this anymore 1063 00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,239 Speaker 1: because this person is clearly on like you know, a 1064 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,759 Speaker 1: whole other thing of like self destruction, Like this is 1065 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,000 Speaker 1: not good for me. So you have to recognize when 1066 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 1: and where, Like I say this at work a lot, 1067 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,680 Speaker 1: Like I go by two things like if you're the 1068 00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,560 Speaker 1: smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room, 1069 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,359 Speaker 1: and it's like not an insult, but it's just like 1070 00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,480 Speaker 1: it's like an intrinsic Like I have to recognize that. 1071 00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,960 Speaker 1: And then if everyone in the in the room is 1072 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,520 Speaker 1: an asshole, then then you're the asshole. Like those are 1073 00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,400 Speaker 1: two things that I sort of so I look to 1074 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,480 Speaker 1: like think that way all the time, like what is 1075 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,799 Speaker 1: this relationship going to do for me? Like who am 1076 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,560 Speaker 1: I surrounding myself with? Like where do I want to go? 1077 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:15,239 Speaker 1: Like like with very deliberate intent, you know, and like 1078 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:18,040 Speaker 1: as far as growth is concerned, if you're surrounded by 1079 00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,640 Speaker 1: people who are only looking to hold you back or 1080 00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,520 Speaker 1: like do you know dumb shit for like lack of 1081 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,320 Speaker 1: a better term, then then that's where you're going to 1082 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:28,680 Speaker 1: be and like that's what you're going to do. And 1083 00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,720 Speaker 1: it's just the you got to make a conscious decision, 1084 00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,640 Speaker 1: like you're on a different path and like find who's 1085 00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,000 Speaker 1: going to help support that path. 1086 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,560 Speaker 2: And we talk about all that that all the time too, 1087 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,960 Speaker 2: about how people will say like, well you've changed and 1088 00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,600 Speaker 2: and and it's like and we we think that's a compliment, 1089 00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,520 Speaker 2: like you should change as you get older. 1090 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:53,600 Speaker 1: Isn't that the point like to grow? 1091 00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:53,960 Speaker 2: Right? 1092 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,040 Speaker 1: Like so so yeah, like I hear that a ton 1093 00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,319 Speaker 1: at my job, and I just you know, well this 1094 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,080 Speaker 1: guy changed that, you know, they're different, they changed, And 1095 00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:06,680 Speaker 1: was like, well it's not bad. Like honestly, you should 1096 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,400 Speaker 1: be willing and able to change your mind or orre 1097 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,399 Speaker 1: to like pivot, you know what I'm saying. Like if 1098 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:15,360 Speaker 1: you're not, then you're kind of doing it wrong. 1099 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're just like you're like al Bundy. We always 1100 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,720 Speaker 2: talk about that, talking about talking about Polkai football, right, 1101 00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,920 Speaker 2: just like you just never you just never grow. Yeah, 1102 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,720 Speaker 2: and when you grow, you change, and hopefully the person 1103 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,840 Speaker 2: you're with is also growing and changing and you guys 1104 00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:35,640 Speaker 2: can kind of do it together. 1105 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,920 Speaker 1: Instead of yeah, yeah, I mean like you feed off 1106 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,600 Speaker 1: of that. You know, I don't want to be talking 1107 00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,640 Speaker 1: to you about what I was doing on a skateboard 1108 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,680 Speaker 1: twenty five or thirty years ago, Like like that's cool 1109 00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,280 Speaker 1: in all, but like that's not If I'm kind of 1110 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,800 Speaker 1: relying on that conversation, then like that's going to get 1111 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,520 Speaker 1: old real quick. Like it's sort of like grow and 1112 00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,479 Speaker 1: progress and like talk about new things and like see 1113 00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:58,880 Speaker 1: what else is going on out there, and like in 1114 00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,440 Speaker 1: the relationship, if you're kind of fostering that and one another, 1115 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,080 Speaker 1: then like the team goes that way, right, and and 1116 00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,880 Speaker 1: then your kids sort of emmul like that. Right. So 1117 00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:10,000 Speaker 1: let's talk. 1118 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,760 Speaker 2: About your dissertation, because it was really awesome. I had 1119 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,120 Speaker 2: to read it like five. 1120 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,440 Speaker 1: Hundreds I still have to read it at least one 1121 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,120 Speaker 1: more time before I can. Yeah, we have to. 1122 00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:25,200 Speaker 2: Just just briefly just tell us because I think a 1123 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,880 Speaker 2: lot of people that might want to go to grad 1124 00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:32,919 Speaker 2: school they might not understand. Like like when you when 1125 00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,360 Speaker 2: you decided you were doing this doctorate program and you 1126 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,600 Speaker 2: knew what the title of this major was, did you 1127 00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,600 Speaker 2: know right away, like, Okay, this is what I'm going 1128 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,400 Speaker 2: to write my dissertation on. Because this is what I 1129 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:43,200 Speaker 2: want to do. 1130 00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,480 Speaker 1: No, not not at all. And the cool thing about 1131 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,080 Speaker 1: like research or even academics in general is that like 1132 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,040 Speaker 1: there's like this nonlinear or you know, yeah, I go 1133 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:55,720 Speaker 1: here and then like I meet the wall, and then 1134 00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,400 Speaker 1: like I or I learned something that disproves what I 1135 00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,000 Speaker 1: was thinking, and then like I have to kind of 1136 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:05,760 Speaker 1: right and so and I like that, you know, it's 1137 00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:07,920 Speaker 1: one of the things I'd like about doing that kind 1138 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:13,040 Speaker 1: of work. So I only recently named it, and loosely 1139 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,640 Speaker 1: it's it's socio cultural human performance, and it's based upon 1140 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:23,720 Speaker 1: like leadership and professional development for fire officers, fire company officers, 1141 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,800 Speaker 1: and of course it's frame like so I'd be remiss 1142 00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,360 Speaker 1: if I didn't say that. Basically, my place that I 1143 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,760 Speaker 1: work has sort of been been the reason for me 1144 00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:38,560 Speaker 1: to do any of this stuff. Right, I don't. I 1145 00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,720 Speaker 1: don't work in Baltimore, I don't work in New York City, 1146 00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,360 Speaker 1: I don't work in in Cherry Hill, like I don't, 1147 00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,760 Speaker 1: So I can only kind of navigate my academics with 1148 00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:52,040 Speaker 1: the organizational experiences that I have. Right, So, like all 1149 00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,240 Speaker 1: my work is about the place I'm in and and 1150 00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,919 Speaker 1: trying to seek understanding about about how to help make 1151 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:03,480 Speaker 1: that better, and in this place, it's just extremely complex. 1152 01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:10,800 Speaker 1: So I think I had to sit with like a 1153 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,640 Speaker 1: thirty year problem right to try to figure this out. 1154 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,320 Speaker 1: And like along the way, all the stuff you figure out, 1155 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:21,240 Speaker 1: just like we talk about growth, Like the stuff you 1156 01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,240 Speaker 1: figure out or the stuff you read about like just 1157 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,760 Speaker 1: makes you a better person and a more understanding person. 1158 01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,560 Speaker 1: And like all these things that I'm working on that 1159 01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,560 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with the fire Service make me 1160 01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:35,120 Speaker 1: extremely better at the fire service, if that makes sense. So, 1161 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,240 Speaker 1: like I was saying this earlier, like the fire science 1162 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,200 Speaker 1: thing I started off with, I just think that's extremely 1163 01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:45,440 Speaker 1: narrow and like, if I want people to be better firefighters, 1164 01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,760 Speaker 1: it's like they're not going to stop in the middle 1165 01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:49,120 Speaker 1: of the fire floor and be like, oh, well, this 1166 01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:51,760 Speaker 1: is the part where the fire tetrahedron comes together. Like 1167 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,160 Speaker 1: it just doesn't work like that, And god forbid they 1168 01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,840 Speaker 1: wanted to go on to another career or do something 1169 01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:02,080 Speaker 1: in retirement, Like the fire Service doesn't really assist you 1170 01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,360 Speaker 1: in doing that, Like they're very like, no, just stay 1171 01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,600 Speaker 1: in these like four walls right here, and you're going 1172 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:09,280 Speaker 1: to be a better firefighter. And I just don't think 1173 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,800 Speaker 1: that it works like that. I think that the work 1174 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,000 Speaker 1: I did in my dissertation or my or my master's 1175 01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:18,960 Speaker 1: capstone or whatever just kind of broaden your horizons. And 1176 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,720 Speaker 1: like when you broad in like that, you kind of 1177 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,760 Speaker 1: you'll circle back to the place you're at and sort 1178 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:31,320 Speaker 1: of identify issues and problems or you know, circumstances or 1179 01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,960 Speaker 1: frameworks or whatever it might be that are just you know, 1180 01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:40,320 Speaker 1: broken and or like not effective. And while that will 1181 01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:45,360 Speaker 1: maybe ruin your life, at the end of the day, 1182 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,680 Speaker 1: you can sit with it circumstances or problems and try 1183 01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:53,960 Speaker 1: to really identify how to fix them right. And like, 1184 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,040 Speaker 1: I don't know that I answered your question because I 1185 01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:57,160 Speaker 1: didn't really speak. 1186 01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,480 Speaker 2: No, you do. And this is something that we talk 1187 01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,520 Speaker 2: about all time again a similar thing, because one thing 1188 01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,920 Speaker 2: that I remember, especially when I was working in the 1189 01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,760 Speaker 2: gross room a lot and stuff, was that just you know, 1190 01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,840 Speaker 2: working with a bunch of doctors and they just think, 1191 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,280 Speaker 2: you know, oh, you've seen one thing, you see it all, 1192 01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,160 Speaker 2: and you you knew every You have some degree, and 1193 01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:21,040 Speaker 2: you and you read some books, and now all of 1194 01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,000 Speaker 2: a sudden, like that's all you have to do in life, 1195 01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,760 Speaker 2: and and and the Fire Service is kind of opposite 1196 01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:30,360 Speaker 2: that it's like not as strong academic. Oh, I've been 1197 01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,120 Speaker 2: to this many fires and I know everything. And like 1198 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,640 Speaker 2: the perfect job ever, whether it's being a firefighter, whether 1199 01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,440 Speaker 2: it's being a PA or nurse anything in the world, 1200 01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:42,200 Speaker 2: is that you have book smarts and then you have 1201 01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:47,920 Speaker 2: job smarts, and it's this it's this beautiful marriage of 1202 01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,479 Speaker 2: of like how everything should be in the world would 1203 01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:52,840 Speaker 2: be a better place. We always say that, right, So 1204 01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:55,720 Speaker 2: I think you did, you answered it. 1205 01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,680 Speaker 1: That's I think. I mean, my my whole goal at 1206 01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,600 Speaker 1: my job is to sort of like be filthy and 1207 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,200 Speaker 1: and like that's a term from baseball I've learned from 1208 01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,080 Speaker 1: like pictures got filthy stuff today, Like I think I 1209 01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,760 Speaker 1: have a lot of tactical street experience, right, but like 1210 01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:16,680 Speaker 1: I also want to marry that with academics and like 1211 01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,320 Speaker 1: like time spent in the box trying to solve a problem. 1212 01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:20,600 Speaker 2: Right. 1213 01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:27,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's what's been highly effective for me personally, 1214 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:29,880 Speaker 1: at least I feel like it's been effective, and I 1215 01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:35,320 Speaker 1: hope other people would too. But yeah, I want to 1216 01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,880 Speaker 1: be filthy, Like I want to be the equal parts 1217 01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,920 Speaker 1: of like street smart and tactical skill sets and like 1218 01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,680 Speaker 1: deep thought and you know, the marrying of blue collar 1219 01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:46,360 Speaker 1: and white collar. 1220 01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's just the only way to 1221 01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:52,800 Speaker 2: be because you can't, you know. And that is something 1222 01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,760 Speaker 2: that because we we grew up super super blue collar, 1223 01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:00,120 Speaker 2: like we barely know anybody that went to school. 1224 01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean in our neighborhoods, I don't want 1225 01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,800 Speaker 1: to act like I'm not right, like I think we're 1226 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,120 Speaker 1: still very hard working blue collar folks. 1227 01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:08,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1228 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:12,200 Speaker 1: So I would never want to like act like that's 1229 01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:13,800 Speaker 1: improper or not good. 1230 01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and we I mean I think that I 1231 01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,400 Speaker 2: learned so many skills from my dad just being and 1232 01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,960 Speaker 2: that makes me a good PA on the job, right, 1233 01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,000 Speaker 2: even though I already had the academics to back it up. 1234 01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:30,600 Speaker 2: You know. It's like because trust me, I worked with 1235 01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,840 Speaker 2: plenty of doctors who did not know how to use 1236 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,200 Speaker 2: any kind of street smarts to figure anything out. 1237 01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's not it's not like I'm sure 1238 01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,280 Speaker 1: we both know plenty of people with advanced degrees who 1239 01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:47,240 Speaker 1: are just you know, yeah we do, you know, so 1240 01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:49,400 Speaker 1: so like I would never even think, and you know, 1241 01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:53,080 Speaker 1: in the fire service, unfortunately, there's like that whole negative 1242 01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:58,120 Speaker 1: connotation to like you know, college boy or whatever, like 1243 01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:01,840 Speaker 1: like like Jaws, like Hooper, right, like Quin and Hooper. 1244 01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,760 Speaker 1: But but it doesn't have to be that way. Like 1245 01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,000 Speaker 1: learning is cool. Getting smarter can help you be more 1246 01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,640 Speaker 1: effective on the street, and like if you're like mission oriented, 1247 01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:15,640 Speaker 1: then that's what matters to at least when we're talking 1248 01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,640 Speaker 1: about like the fire service. That's that's all I really 1249 01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,320 Speaker 1: can relate to. Your thing is probably not much different 1250 01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,480 Speaker 1: in that you see people with advanced degrees and like 1251 01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,200 Speaker 1: they're just like very kind of like shut off to 1252 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,200 Speaker 1: to like what you look like or your approach to 1253 01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:30,920 Speaker 1: things or. 1254 01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they just think they don't have to work a. 1255 01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,120 Speaker 1: Degree higher than you or whatever it might be. It's 1256 01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of unfortunate, but like it when 1257 01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,720 Speaker 1: you do find the people that are rare and they're 1258 01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:43,920 Speaker 1: a little bit of each I think that they're the 1259 01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:46,920 Speaker 1: ones who are filthy at their chosen profession. 1260 01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:52,080 Speaker 2: I agree. Well, I think that we've let the people 1261 01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,320 Speaker 2: listening hear a lot about the inside of what we 1262 01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:55,840 Speaker 2: this is. 1263 01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I was a little surprised that I 1264 01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:00,920 Speaker 1: was requested, to be quite honest, you told me that 1265 01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:02,840 Speaker 1: I was like really like people on her thing give 1266 01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,240 Speaker 1: any shit about what I'm doing or what I'm talking about, Like, 1267 01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:07,640 Speaker 1: that's kind of news to me. 1268 01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:10,560 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think you're I think a 1269 01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,000 Speaker 2: lot of you know, you did podcast with Jason on 1270 01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,440 Speaker 2: Leadership under Fire. You've been on a couple of different. 1271 01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,760 Speaker 1: Podcasts, and we'll hopefully have another one of those coming 1272 01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,240 Speaker 1: up by the end of the summer. Yeah. 1273 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,320 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people have listened to 1274 01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:26,439 Speaker 2: it and they just want to hear what you're doing. 1275 01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,760 Speaker 2: And I'm always saying, how awesome what you're doing is. 1276 01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:34,040 Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm like prob mama over here. But this 1277 01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,440 Speaker 2: is like a typical date night conversation Gabe and I 1278 01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:37,840 Speaker 2: would have. 1279 01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the only thing missing is the Ethiopian. 1280 01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:48,640 Speaker 2: Shoes, the Ethiopian food and others. We're done, all right, 1281 01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:51,640 Speaker 2: We're done, all right. Well, thanks so much for being here, Vavi, 1282 01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:52,200 Speaker 2: you're the best. 1283 01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:53,640 Speaker 1: Appreciate all of you too. 1284 01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:59,800 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Thank you for listening to Mother 1285 01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:03,720 Speaker 2: and Death. As a reminder, my training is as a 1286 01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:08,600 Speaker 2: pathologist's assistant. I have a master's level education and specialize 1287 01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:12,640 Speaker 2: in anatomy and pathology education. I am not a doctor 1288 01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,720 Speaker 2: and I have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or 1289 01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:21,040 Speaker 2: alive without the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show, 1290 01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:25,080 Speaker 2: my website, and social media accounts are designed to educate 1291 01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:29,040 Speaker 2: and inform people based on my experience working in pathology, 1292 01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:32,760 Speaker 2: so they can make healthier decisions regarding their life and 1293 01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:37,080 Speaker 2: well being. Always remember that science is changing every day, 1294 01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:40,080 Speaker 2: and the opinions expressed in this episode are based on 1295 01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,880 Speaker 2: my knowledge of those subjects at the time of publication. 1296 01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:47,720 Speaker 2: If you are having a medical problem, have a medical question, 1297 01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:52,360 Speaker 2: or having a medical emergency, please contact your physician or 1298 01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:57,840 Speaker 2: visit an urgent care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review, 1299 01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:02,360 Speaker 2: and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, 1300 01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:14,680 Speaker 2: or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks