WEBVTT - Music Exec Reflects on His Glory Days in the Rock Business

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim

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<v Speaker 1>Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Gotta Love It Everybody, Ted Nugent, Cheap Trick, Molly Hatchett, Poise,

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<v Speaker 2>and just a sampling of some of the music our

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<v Speaker 2>next guest has had a hand in bringing into this

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<v Speaker 2>world to all of us.

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<v Speaker 3>He spent four decades in the recording industry, working with

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<v Speaker 3>some of the biggest rock bands in the seventies, eighties,

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<v Speaker 3>and nineties. Working in an R which stands for Artists

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<v Speaker 3>and Repertoire, he discovered sign and produced Ario Speedwagon, Ted Nugent,

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<v Speaker 3>Cheap Trick, and Molly Hatchett Carol. He later produced albums

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<v Speaker 3>for Blue Oyster, Colt Crew, Twisted Sister, and Poison.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, an iconic music label, many others as well. He

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<v Speaker 2>produced twenty three gold or platinum selling albums that cumulatively

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<v Speaker 2>sold more than fifty two million copies. He's got a

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<v Speaker 2>new book out. It's called Turn It Up, My Time

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<v Speaker 2>Making Hit Records in the Glory Days of Rock Music.

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<v Speaker 2>Tom Worman is the former music industry executive and producer

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<v Speaker 2>who wrote the book. He join us on Zoom from Lenox, Massachusetts.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey tom So looking forward to talking to you. How

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<v Speaker 2>are you.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm great, I'm great. How are you.

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<v Speaker 2>We're doing okay, trying to keep up with what we

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<v Speaker 2>thought would be a quiet news week, but it's not

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<v Speaker 2>even close. I want to talk about your four decades

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<v Speaker 2>iconic rock and hard rock bands. We just listed some

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<v Speaker 2>of them. Take us to the beginning. Because New England

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<v Speaker 2>Prep School, Ivy League Education, you got an MBA advertising,

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<v Speaker 2>could have had a job at P ANDNG. Take us

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<v Speaker 2>to the beginning and how it all started.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I wasn't very happy. I didn't know what I

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<v Speaker 4>was doing, choosing the advertising agency over CBS Records. It

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<v Speaker 4>was they paid a little better, so I was very unhappy.

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<v Speaker 4>I was assigned to the Proper and Gamble account group

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<v Speaker 4>and I was in charge of writing marketing plans for

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<v Speaker 4>game Detergent and then Jeff peanut Butter you know yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>And at the end of the year, I was really

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<v Speaker 4>not happy. And I had seen some you know, some

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<v Speaker 4>very you know landmark concerts, and I was a musician

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<v Speaker 4>and I had had a great band, and I was

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<v Speaker 4>thinking about getting into the music business. I just could

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<v Speaker 4>not really envision spending my life without rock music. When

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<v Speaker 4>I you know, I mean, since I heard Elvis in

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen fifty four, that was really it for me. So

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<v Speaker 4>I wrote a letter to Clive Davis, which was a

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<v Speaker 4>cheeky thing to do, I think, and I told him,

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<v Speaker 4>I told him in the letter that I would call

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<v Speaker 4>his office to arrange an appointment. You don't do that

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<v Speaker 4>to Clyde. You let him arrange the appointment. Anyway, I

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<v Speaker 4>started interviewing at CBS Records, which was the home of

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<v Speaker 4>Columbia Label and Epic Label, and I finally got to

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<v Speaker 4>see Clive and he hired me on the spot and

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<v Speaker 4>I went from hell to heaven overnight.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, so do the letter work, Like, did that initial

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<v Speaker 2>letter get you? That initial it did? Love it?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the letters reprinted in the books as it was

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<v Speaker 4>written to the actual letter, And yeah. You know, one

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<v Speaker 4>fortunate thing is that it was a time when they

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<v Speaker 4>could hardly make records fast enough to satisfy the demands.

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<v Speaker 4>So they were hiring.

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<v Speaker 3>Certainly a different era. I mean, instead of discovering folks

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<v Speaker 3>on YouTube or TikTok, and we're going to get to

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<v Speaker 3>that a little bit later. You know, you were having

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<v Speaker 3>to actually do the shoe leather work and going and

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<v Speaker 3>finding these artists. So you're in your twenties, you show

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<v Speaker 3>up at the label. How do you make your how

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<v Speaker 3>do you get your first big break?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, two months in after I started working, I heard

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<v Speaker 4>the assetate that this independent engineer brought me. He had

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<v Speaker 4>recorded a Reo Speedwagon at his house in Connecticut and

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<v Speaker 4>there were two songs on there that I thought were outstanding,

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<v Speaker 4>and I flew out to Champagne, Illinois to see the

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<v Speaker 4>band because it's you know, you say that there was

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<v Speaker 4>shoe leather involved and that it was work, but really

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<v Speaker 4>it was a lot of fun. You know, flying was

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<v Speaker 4>really enjoyable back then. And uh, you know, they gave

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<v Speaker 4>me a credit card and said go find hits. So

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<v Speaker 4>it was pretty pile flying around the country and seeing

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<v Speaker 4>bands when when you thought that there might be you know,

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<v Speaker 4>some potential there.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a little different than marketing peanut butter.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, he asked marketing peanut butter. And it's also quite

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<v Speaker 4>different from discovering bands by using algorithms and looking on

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<v Speaker 4>social media. You know, we heard it, if we liked it,

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<v Speaker 4>we went to see it, and you know they were

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<v Speaker 4>they were a wonderful band, and I signed them. So

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<v Speaker 4>after that I tried to sign Kiss, Leonard skinnerd and Rush,

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<v Speaker 4>and I was turned down on all of them. Eventually,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, the people at the label said, I think

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<v Speaker 4>maybe Werman knows something that we don't and and and

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<v Speaker 4>then they let me sign Ted Nugent.

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<v Speaker 2>What was interesting though, even after your first big discovery

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<v Speaker 2>of R E Sped Waggon, like, you still had to

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<v Speaker 2>prove yourself. And you make note of that, right that

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<v Speaker 2>you talked about Kiss, Rush and Leonard Skinnyard, and yet

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<v Speaker 2>they were all rejected by your boss, right right.

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<v Speaker 4>He was a smart guy, a great guy. I loved

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<v Speaker 4>working for him, but he was wrong, right Well, he

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<v Speaker 4>didn't have a rock and roll ahead, you know, he

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<v Speaker 4>liked a lot of other kinds of music. And I

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<v Speaker 4>was really the rock and roll guy. Was trying to

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<v Speaker 4>introduce epic records to hard rock or power pop, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>whatever you want to call it. And you know, they

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<v Speaker 4>after I signed Ted, and I went into the studio

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<v Speaker 4>and and kind of horned in on the creative process

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<v Speaker 4>and they gave me co producer credit and then I

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<v Speaker 4>was a producer ABCAB.

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<v Speaker 3>What did you explain what a producer did then? And

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<v Speaker 3>what a producer does?

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<v Speaker 4>Now, oh, I don't know what they do. You know

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<v Speaker 4>now they make beats and they use samples and they

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<v Speaker 4>use keyboards and computers. Way back when, in nineteen you know,

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<v Speaker 4>in the nineteen seventies, a producer did literally everything from

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<v Speaker 4>the beginning of the album to the delivery of the album.

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<v Speaker 4>So you would work with the band, pick the material, rehearse,

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<v Speaker 4>rearrange stuff, hire the hire the studio, hire the engineer,

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<v Speaker 4>set everybody up, use, choose the mics, choose the position,

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<v Speaker 4>maybe change the snare drum head, do every single thing.

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<v Speaker 4>Wherever there was a decision to be made, you were

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<v Speaker 4>part of that. Now the band hired you. So you know,

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<v Speaker 4>people think that the producer was a dictator. He's not.

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<v Speaker 4>He's he's a collaborator ideally, and the producer is is

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<v Speaker 4>hired to help the band realize its musical vision. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>you choose the performances, you make edits, you combine things,

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<v Speaker 4>you you tell people when when the performance was the best,

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<v Speaker 4>and edit you mix the record, which is tough, and

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<v Speaker 4>then you master it and then you deliver it and

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<v Speaker 4>then you go on to the next project.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, when you do feedback or when you say

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you want to do this. I mean, is it

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<v Speaker 2>always easy or is it sometimes difficult?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, you suggest things nicely and you try them, the

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<v Speaker 4>band will will will try them and if they're reasonable,

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<v Speaker 4>and usually they work and we we will you know,

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<v Speaker 4>adapt and will make a little change or an improvement.

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<v Speaker 4>Sometimes it doesn't work and you don't and then you

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<v Speaker 4>simply don't do it, but you don't tell the band

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<v Speaker 4>what they're going to do.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get back to Tom Mormon, as we said, spent

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<v Speaker 2>four decades in the recording industry, worked with some of

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest rock bands of the seventies, eighties, and nineties.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got a new book that reveals it all. Turn

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<v Speaker 2>it up, my time making hit records in the glory

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<v Speaker 2>days of rock music. And he's still with a sun

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<v Speaker 2>Zoom from Lenox, Massachusetts. So, Tom, is it like sex,

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<v Speaker 2>drugs and rock and roll?

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<v Speaker 1>What was it like?

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<v Speaker 2>Take us back to the seventies or the eighties. What

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<v Speaker 2>was it like out there in la and being in

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<v Speaker 2>this industry, in this business.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, it was life in the fast lane. Generally, we'll say.

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<v Speaker 4>The book does deal with rock and roll and some drugs.

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<v Speaker 4>No sex in the book.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a family book.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm Sorry, that probably puts a damper on sales. But no,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, LA was the place to make records. It

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<v Speaker 4>was sunshine and beautiful people and a lot of ease.

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<v Speaker 4>You could get anything you wanted right away if you

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<v Speaker 4>needed it in the studio, from equipment to musicians. It

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<v Speaker 4>was the best. And there were probably thirty recording studios

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<v Speaker 4>out there to choose from. And I went out there

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<v Speaker 4>with cheap trick to make in color and I said, Wow,

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<v Speaker 4>I could live here. And I went back to New

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<v Speaker 4>York and I told Epic that I said I'd be

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<v Speaker 4>much happier making records in Los Angeles, and they said,

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<v Speaker 4>we'll move you. So they moved us. They were great,

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<v Speaker 4>and god, it was wonderful. I never experienced any traffic

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<v Speaker 4>because I went to work at noon and came back

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<v Speaker 4>at midnight.

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<v Speaker 3>That's pretty amazing living in LA and not experiencing traffic.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a unique experience. Hey, Tom, why did you leave

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<v Speaker 3>LA just out of curiosity? I know at the end

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<v Speaker 3>of your recording career you decided to open a bed

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<v Speaker 3>and breakfast in Massachusetts. But so many people who went

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<v Speaker 3>out to who went out West in the seventies and

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<v Speaker 3>eighties ended up you know, planting down new roots there

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<v Speaker 3>and staying well.

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<v Speaker 4>We did raise a family there. I was there for

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<v Speaker 4>twenty three years, and you know, I think that if

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<v Speaker 4>you don't need to be in LA, you probably shouldn't

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<v Speaker 4>at this point. Back then, I just needed to reinvent

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<v Speaker 4>myself because the music had changed. I was fifty five

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<v Speaker 4>years old, and you know, I didn't think I should

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<v Speaker 4>be making records for teenagers at that point, and I was.

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<v Speaker 4>I was very heavily associated with hair bands and hard rock,

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<v Speaker 4>and you know, Seattle. I don't think any Seattle bands

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<v Speaker 4>were that anxious to work with you know, a producer

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<v Speaker 4>who had worked with Twisted Sister and Motley Cruze because

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<v Speaker 4>you know, I think it would They thought that it

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<v Speaker 4>would have damaged their street credibility. So I decided to

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<v Speaker 4>to get up and go instead of stay there and

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<v Speaker 4>wallow in my frustration and unemployment. And I closed it out.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, fifty two records. Wow, it was a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>I was.

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<v Speaker 4>Burnt. I was pretty burnt at that point. So we

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<v Speaker 4>came here, and you know, this is heaven on earth

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<v Speaker 4>right here. It's beautiful country. We opened up a luxury

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<v Speaker 4>bed and breakfast, which was a kind of a new concept,

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<v Speaker 4>and we had a ball and we won awards and

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<v Speaker 4>my wife and I and then we sold it three

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<v Speaker 4>years ago and moved up the street and I am

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<v Speaker 4>blissfully retired.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 3>You just they're doing annoying interviews with people like us,

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<v Speaker 3>which we certainly appreciate. Hey, I'm not annoying. I'm really

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<v Speaker 3>interested in what you think about music today. You were

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<v Speaker 3>talking just now about a transition in your career when

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<v Speaker 3>you were fifty five, sort of the move from rock

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<v Speaker 3>and roll and hair bands to grunge, the Seattle movement

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<v Speaker 3>in the nineties, Nirvana and bands like that. What's happening

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<v Speaker 3>right now from I guess we could call you like

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<v Speaker 3>an outsider's insider. What's your perspective right now?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I know, very honestly, I know very little about

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<v Speaker 4>what's going on today. My son works in A and

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<v Speaker 4>R at Warner Records in LA and we talk. I

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<v Speaker 4>try to find out how they do their job. It's

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<v Speaker 4>quite different, and so is the recording industry. Everything is.

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<v Speaker 4>If you can play keyboards and run a computer, you

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<v Speaker 4>can make records in your bedroom and music in your bedroom,

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<v Speaker 4>and you know it's all perfect. It's all digital. I

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<v Speaker 4>don't think you'll ever hear another flatter, sharp note from

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<v Speaker 4>a vocalist. You won't hear any mistakes. And I prefer,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, human beings playing real music, warts and all.

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<v Speaker 4>I just find that I can hear. I can listen

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<v Speaker 4>to music that's forty years old and it still inspires me.

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<v Speaker 4>I have a four hour playlist of music from the sixties,

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<v Speaker 4>seventies and eighties, the classic rock era, and I take

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<v Speaker 4>it to the gym on my phone and it works

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<v Speaker 4>every time.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you listen to anything from today?

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<v Speaker 4>No, I really don't unless I have to, which means

0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 4>I go into a you know, a drug store or

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<v Speaker 4>a supermarket and sometimes there's a classic rock playlist, which

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<v Speaker 4>is fine. Other times there is music that I find unrecognizable.

0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:03.920
<v Speaker 4>I actually it's rhythmic entertainment. I hate to do this,

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<v Speaker 4>but I channeled my parents and and and I want

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<v Speaker 4>to say, you call that music?

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<v Speaker 2>So did you say music?

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<v Speaker 4>I just want to check it.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you say that?

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<v Speaker 4>I have? We We listened to the music. They look

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<v Speaker 4>at it a lot now because it's on you know,

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<v Speaker 4>it's on a screen and they can take sections of

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<v Speaker 4>it and move it. It's it just doesn't do it

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<v Speaker 4>for me. And also I think age has something to

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<v Speaker 4>do with it.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that's fair. Listen, this was really fun, and I

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<v Speaker 2>hope we can talk again in the future because it

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<v Speaker 2>is interesting to hear the history, and you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>had a front seat at so many iconic rock bands

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<v Speaker 2>that are still being played. So it's it's pretty cool stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Tom Mormon, thank you so much. Have a good holiday.

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<v Speaker 2>His new book out, Turn It Up. My time making

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<v Speaker 2>hit records in the glory days of rock music, and

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<v Speaker 2>he did it in the set V Indies, eighties, and nineties,

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<v Speaker 2>so he's seen quite a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>Pretty cool stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, ped Nuga, Cheap Trick, Reo, Speedwagon, everything pretty cool,

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<v Speaker 2>pretty wild stuff, all right, everybody, you're listening and watching

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg BusinessWeek