Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim
Speaker 1: Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Gotta Love It Everybody, Ted Nugent, Cheap Trick, Molly Hatchett, Poise,
Speaker 2: and just a sampling of some of the music our
Speaker 2: next guest has had a hand in bringing into this
Speaker 2: world to all of us.
Speaker 3: He spent four decades in the recording industry, working with
Speaker 3: some of the biggest rock bands in the seventies, eighties,
Speaker 3: and nineties. Working in an R which stands for Artists
Speaker 3: and Repertoire, he discovered sign and produced Ario Speedwagon, Ted Nugent,
Speaker 3: Cheap Trick, and Molly Hatchett Carol. He later produced albums
Speaker 3: for Blue Oyster, Colt Crew, Twisted Sister, and Poison.
Speaker 2: Yeah, an iconic music label, many others as well. He
Speaker 2: produced twenty three gold or platinum selling albums that cumulatively
Speaker 2: sold more than fifty two million copies. He's got a
Speaker 2: new book out. It's called Turn It Up, My Time
Speaker 2: Making Hit Records in the Glory Days of Rock Music.
Speaker 2: Tom Worman is the former music industry executive and producer
Speaker 2: who wrote the book. He join us on Zoom from Lenox, Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: Hey tom So looking forward to talking to you. How
Speaker 2: are you.
Speaker 4: I'm great, I'm great. How are you.
Speaker 2: We're doing okay, trying to keep up with what we
Speaker 2: thought would be a quiet news week, but it's not
Speaker 2: even close. I want to talk about your four decades
Speaker 2: iconic rock and hard rock bands. We just listed some
Speaker 2: of them. Take us to the beginning. Because New England
Speaker 2: Prep School, Ivy League Education, you got an MBA advertising,
Speaker 2: could have had a job at P ANDNG. Take us
Speaker 2: to the beginning and how it all started.
Speaker 4: Well, I wasn't very happy. I didn't know what I
Speaker 4: was doing, choosing the advertising agency over CBS Records. It
Speaker 4: was they paid a little better, so I was very unhappy.
Speaker 4: I was assigned to the Proper and Gamble account group
Speaker 4: and I was in charge of writing marketing plans for
Speaker 4: game Detergent and then Jeff peanut Butter you know yeah,
Speaker 4: And at the end of the year, I was really
Speaker 4: not happy. And I had seen some you know, some
Speaker 4: very you know landmark concerts, and I was a musician
Speaker 4: and I had had a great band, and I was
Speaker 4: thinking about getting into the music business. I just could
Speaker 4: not really envision spending my life without rock music. When
Speaker 4: I you know, I mean, since I heard Elvis in
Speaker 4: nineteen fifty four, that was really it for me. So
Speaker 4: I wrote a letter to Clive Davis, which was a
Speaker 4: cheeky thing to do, I think, and I told him,
Speaker 4: I told him in the letter that I would call
Speaker 4: his office to arrange an appointment. You don't do that
Speaker 4: to Clyde. You let him arrange the appointment. Anyway, I
Speaker 4: started interviewing at CBS Records, which was the home of
Speaker 4: Columbia Label and Epic Label, and I finally got to
Speaker 4: see Clive and he hired me on the spot and
Speaker 4: I went from hell to heaven overnight.
Speaker 2: Wait, so do the letter work, Like, did that initial
Speaker 2: letter get you? That initial it did? Love it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, the letters reprinted in the books as it was
Speaker 4: written to the actual letter, And yeah. You know, one
Speaker 4: fortunate thing is that it was a time when they
Speaker 4: could hardly make records fast enough to satisfy the demands.
Speaker 4: So they were hiring.
Speaker 3: Certainly a different era. I mean, instead of discovering folks
Speaker 3: on YouTube or TikTok, and we're going to get to
Speaker 3: that a little bit later. You know, you were having
Speaker 3: to actually do the shoe leather work and going and
Speaker 3: finding these artists. So you're in your twenties, you show
Speaker 3: up at the label. How do you make your how
Speaker 3: do you get your first big break?
Speaker 4: Well, two months in after I started working, I heard
Speaker 4: the assetate that this independent engineer brought me. He had
Speaker 4: recorded a Reo Speedwagon at his house in Connecticut and
Speaker 4: there were two songs on there that I thought were outstanding,
Speaker 4: and I flew out to Champagne, Illinois to see the
Speaker 4: band because it's you know, you say that there was
Speaker 4: shoe leather involved and that it was work, but really
Speaker 4: it was a lot of fun. You know, flying was
Speaker 4: really enjoyable back then. And uh, you know, they gave
Speaker 4: me a credit card and said go find hits. So
Speaker 4: it was pretty pile flying around the country and seeing
Speaker 4: bands when when you thought that there might be you know,
Speaker 4: some potential there.
Speaker 3: It's a little different than marketing peanut butter.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he asked marketing peanut butter. And it's also quite
Speaker 4: different from discovering bands by using algorithms and looking on
Speaker 4: social media. You know, we heard it, if we liked it,
Speaker 4: we went to see it, and you know they were
Speaker 4: they were a wonderful band, and I signed them. So
Speaker 4: after that I tried to sign Kiss, Leonard skinnerd and Rush,
Speaker 4: and I was turned down on all of them. Eventually,
Speaker 4: you know, the people at the label said, I think
Speaker 4: maybe Werman knows something that we don't and and and
Speaker 4: then they let me sign Ted Nugent.
Speaker 2: What was interesting though, even after your first big discovery
Speaker 2: of R E Sped Waggon, like, you still had to
Speaker 2: prove yourself. And you make note of that, right that
Speaker 2: you talked about Kiss, Rush and Leonard Skinnyard, and yet
Speaker 2: they were all rejected by your boss, right right.
Speaker 4: He was a smart guy, a great guy. I loved
Speaker 4: working for him, but he was wrong, right Well, he
Speaker 4: didn't have a rock and roll ahead, you know, he
Speaker 4: liked a lot of other kinds of music. And I
Speaker 4: was really the rock and roll guy. Was trying to
Speaker 4: introduce epic records to hard rock or power pop, you know,
Speaker 4: whatever you want to call it. And you know, they
Speaker 4: after I signed Ted, and I went into the studio
Speaker 4: and and kind of horned in on the creative process
Speaker 4: and they gave me co producer credit and then I
Speaker 4: was a producer ABCAB.
Speaker 3: What did you explain what a producer did then? And
Speaker 3: what a producer does?
Speaker 4: Now, oh, I don't know what they do. You know
Speaker 4: now they make beats and they use samples and they
Speaker 4: use keyboards and computers. Way back when, in nineteen you know,
Speaker 4: in the nineteen seventies, a producer did literally everything from
Speaker 4: the beginning of the album to the delivery of the album.
Speaker 4: So you would work with the band, pick the material, rehearse,
Speaker 4: rearrange stuff, hire the hire the studio, hire the engineer,
Speaker 4: set everybody up, use, choose the mics, choose the position,
Speaker 4: maybe change the snare drum head, do every single thing.
Speaker 4: Wherever there was a decision to be made, you were
Speaker 4: part of that. Now the band hired you. So you know,
Speaker 4: people think that the producer was a dictator. He's not.
Speaker 4: He's he's a collaborator ideally, and the producer is is
Speaker 4: hired to help the band realize its musical vision. You know,
Speaker 4: you choose the performances, you make edits, you combine things,
Speaker 4: you you tell people when when the performance was the best,
Speaker 4: and edit you mix the record, which is tough, and
Speaker 4: then you master it and then you deliver it and
Speaker 4: then you go on to the next project.
Speaker 2: I mean, when you do feedback or when you say
Speaker 2: maybe you want to do this. I mean, is it
Speaker 2: always easy or is it sometimes difficult?
Speaker 4: Well, you suggest things nicely and you try them, the
Speaker 4: band will will will try them and if they're reasonable,
Speaker 4: and usually they work and we we will you know,
Speaker 4: adapt and will make a little change or an improvement.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it doesn't work and you don't and then you
Speaker 4: simply don't do it, but you don't tell the band
Speaker 4: what they're going to do.
Speaker 2: Let's get back to Tom Mormon, as we said, spent
Speaker 2: four decades in the recording industry, worked with some of
Speaker 2: the biggest rock bands of the seventies, eighties, and nineties.
Speaker 2: He's got a new book that reveals it all. Turn
Speaker 2: it up, my time making hit records in the glory
Speaker 2: days of rock music. And he's still with a sun
Speaker 2: Zoom from Lenox, Massachusetts. So, Tom, is it like sex,
Speaker 2: drugs and rock and roll?
Speaker 1: What was it like?
Speaker 2: Take us back to the seventies or the eighties. What
Speaker 2: was it like out there in la and being in
Speaker 2: this industry, in this business.
Speaker 4: Well, it was life in the fast lane. Generally, we'll say.
Speaker 4: The book does deal with rock and roll and some drugs.
Speaker 4: No sex in the book.
Speaker 2: It's a family book.
Speaker 4: I'm Sorry, that probably puts a damper on sales. But no,
Speaker 4: you know, LA was the place to make records. It
Speaker 4: was sunshine and beautiful people and a lot of ease.
Speaker 4: You could get anything you wanted right away if you
Speaker 4: needed it in the studio, from equipment to musicians. It
Speaker 4: was the best. And there were probably thirty recording studios
Speaker 4: out there to choose from. And I went out there
Speaker 4: with cheap trick to make in color and I said, Wow,
Speaker 4: I could live here. And I went back to New
Speaker 4: York and I told Epic that I said I'd be
Speaker 4: much happier making records in Los Angeles, and they said,
Speaker 4: we'll move you. So they moved us. They were great,
Speaker 4: and god, it was wonderful. I never experienced any traffic
Speaker 4: because I went to work at noon and came back
Speaker 4: at midnight.
Speaker 3: That's pretty amazing living in LA and not experiencing traffic.
Speaker 3: That's a unique experience. Hey, Tom, why did you leave
Speaker 3: LA just out of curiosity? I know at the end
Speaker 3: of your recording career you decided to open a bed
Speaker 3: and breakfast in Massachusetts. But so many people who went
Speaker 3: out to who went out West in the seventies and
Speaker 3: eighties ended up you know, planting down new roots there
Speaker 3: and staying well.
Speaker 4: We did raise a family there. I was there for
Speaker 4: twenty three years, and you know, I think that if
Speaker 4: you don't need to be in LA, you probably shouldn't
Speaker 4: at this point. Back then, I just needed to reinvent
Speaker 4: myself because the music had changed. I was fifty five
Speaker 4: years old, and you know, I didn't think I should
Speaker 4: be making records for teenagers at that point, and I was.
Speaker 4: I was very heavily associated with hair bands and hard rock,
Speaker 4: and you know, Seattle. I don't think any Seattle bands
Speaker 4: were that anxious to work with you know, a producer
Speaker 4: who had worked with Twisted Sister and Motley Cruze because
Speaker 4: you know, I think it would They thought that it
Speaker 4: would have damaged their street credibility. So I decided to
Speaker 4: to get up and go instead of stay there and
Speaker 4: wallow in my frustration and unemployment. And I closed it out.
Speaker 4: You know, fifty two records. Wow, it was a lot.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 4: Burnt. I was pretty burnt at that point. So we
Speaker 4: came here, and you know, this is heaven on earth
Speaker 4: right here. It's beautiful country. We opened up a luxury
Speaker 4: bed and breakfast, which was a kind of a new concept,
Speaker 4: and we had a ball and we won awards and
Speaker 4: my wife and I and then we sold it three
Speaker 4: years ago and moved up the street and I am
Speaker 4: blissfully retired.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: You just they're doing annoying interviews with people like us,
Speaker 3: which we certainly appreciate. Hey, I'm not annoying. I'm really
Speaker 3: interested in what you think about music today. You were
Speaker 3: talking just now about a transition in your career when
Speaker 3: you were fifty five, sort of the move from rock
Speaker 3: and roll and hair bands to grunge, the Seattle movement
Speaker 3: in the nineties, Nirvana and bands like that. What's happening
Speaker 3: right now from I guess we could call you like
Speaker 3: an outsider's insider. What's your perspective right now?
Speaker 4: Well, I know, very honestly, I know very little about
Speaker 4: what's going on today. My son works in A and
Speaker 4: R at Warner Records in LA and we talk. I
Speaker 4: try to find out how they do their job. It's
Speaker 4: quite different, and so is the recording industry. Everything is.
Speaker 4: If you can play keyboards and run a computer, you
Speaker 4: can make records in your bedroom and music in your bedroom,
Speaker 4: and you know it's all perfect. It's all digital. I
Speaker 4: don't think you'll ever hear another flatter, sharp note from
Speaker 4: a vocalist. You won't hear any mistakes. And I prefer,
Speaker 4: you know, human beings playing real music, warts and all.
Speaker 4: I just find that I can hear. I can listen
Speaker 4: to music that's forty years old and it still inspires me.
Speaker 4: I have a four hour playlist of music from the sixties,
Speaker 4: seventies and eighties, the classic rock era, and I take
Speaker 4: it to the gym on my phone and it works
Speaker 4: every time.
Speaker 2: Do you listen to anything from today?
Speaker 4: No, I really don't unless I have to, which means
Speaker 4: I go into a you know, a drug store or
Speaker 4: a supermarket and sometimes there's a classic rock playlist, which
Speaker 4: is fine. Other times there is music that I find unrecognizable.
Speaker 4: I actually it's rhythmic entertainment. I hate to do this,
Speaker 4: but I channeled my parents and and and I want
Speaker 4: to say, you call that music?
Speaker 2: So did you say music?
Speaker 4: I just want to check it.
Speaker 2: Did you say that?
Speaker 4: I have? We We listened to the music. They look
Speaker 4: at it a lot now because it's on you know,
Speaker 4: it's on a screen and they can take sections of
Speaker 4: it and move it. It's it just doesn't do it
Speaker 4: for me. And also I think age has something to
Speaker 4: do with it.
Speaker 2: No, that's fair. Listen, this was really fun, and I
Speaker 2: hope we can talk again in the future because it
Speaker 2: is interesting to hear the history, and you know, you
Speaker 2: had a front seat at so many iconic rock bands
Speaker 2: that are still being played. So it's it's pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 2: Tom Mormon, thank you so much. Have a good holiday.
Speaker 2: His new book out, Turn It Up. My time making
Speaker 2: hit records in the glory days of rock music, and
Speaker 2: he did it in the set V Indies, eighties, and nineties,
Speaker 2: so he's seen quite a lot.
Speaker 3: Pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, ped Nuga, Cheap Trick, Reo, Speedwagon, everything pretty cool,
Speaker 2: pretty wild stuff, all right, everybody, you're listening and watching
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