Speaker 1: Hey, drilled listeners, We are about to go on a
Speaker 1: brief hiatus to get to the next investigative season, ready
Speaker 1: to put out to all of you. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: I wanted to let you know about the other show
Speaker 1: that I do with my co host Mary Annaisee Hegler.
Speaker 1: It's called Hot Take, and we take a feminist race
Speaker 1: forward lens to the biggest story of our time, climate change.
Speaker 1: It's a holistic, irreverent, no bullshit look at the climate
Speaker 1: crisis and all the ways that we're talking and not
Speaker 1: talking about it. We're actually on a season break over
Speaker 1: there too, but we are putting out the occasional bonus episode.
Speaker 1: The one I'm going to play for you here is
Speaker 1: all about why it's always time to talk about climate
Speaker 1: and why this idea that you have to either talk
Speaker 1: about racial justice or climate change and you can't talk
Speaker 1: about both all at once is silly. We also have
Speaker 1: a newsletter going over there. It is a weekly newsletter
Speaker 1: that is a roundup of all of the climate coverage
Speaker 1: happening and also analysis, exclusive essays from Mary, and exclusive
Speaker 1: reporting from myself. So if you want to keep tabs
Speaker 1: on what's happening in the climate Justice and Accountability REALM
Speaker 1: over the next month. I highly recommend that you sign
Speaker 1: up there. We'll drop a link in the show notes,
Speaker 1: and you can also follow hot Take at Real Hot
Speaker 1: Take and follow Drilled at We Are Drilled. Especially with
Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter protest going on nationwide, I've had
Speaker 1: a few people ask how that movement overlaps with the
Speaker 1: climate movement. This episode answers all of those questions and more.
Speaker 1: We'll get into that right after a message from this
Speaker 1: week's sponsor.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Hot Takes, the podcast where we
Speaker 2: take a look at the climate crisis and the climate conversation.
Speaker 2: I'm Marianna ease Hegler.
Speaker 1: And I'm Amy Westervelt.
Speaker 2: Today we're gonna do one of our special in between
Speaker 2: season episodes. These are the ones that we're calling Hot
Speaker 2: Take Unwined. Last time we did these, we were drinking wine,
Speaker 2: but this time we're not drinking wine because it's a
Speaker 2: heavier kind of week, so we're both going with like
Speaker 2: actual cocktails and we're not playing around this time. I
Speaker 2: have a hurricane and it is exactly what it sounds like.
Speaker 2: It's a hurricane, and I didn't go eat on the
Speaker 2: wrong I didn't.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: I'm having a drink that I'm gonna call you don't
Speaker 1: want this smoke?
Speaker 4: That was pretty good. That was pretty good for someone
Speaker 4: who doesn't like dad jokes. That was actually pretty good.
Speaker 1: Pretty good, pretty good. Okay, and it is. It's basically
Speaker 1: a margarita, but it's a spicy cucumber pomegranate margarita.
Speaker 4: So it looks fancy.
Speaker 1: I know, it's very fancy. And then I made my
Speaker 1: own sort of salt rim with a like a chilly
Speaker 1: lime smoked paprika salt rim. So it's a it's it's
Speaker 1: wildfire themed. It's kind of spicy and smoky. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: delicious actually, but it's quite strong. I kept adding different
Speaker 1: liquors to get the color right. Yeah, and now I'm
Speaker 1: I'm well on my way to being drunk.
Speaker 4: I can't wait to see a picture of this. I
Speaker 4: really can't or to see where this is gonna take
Speaker 4: this whole conversation. Yeah. So I think it's fitting that
Speaker 4: our two our.
Speaker 2: Two cocktails are hurricane and wildfire theme because we're both
Speaker 2: about to go through hurricane and wildfire season and that
Speaker 2: season we're getting into the season, and I'm from Hurricane Land,
Speaker 2: and you're from fire and land, so it fits. And
Speaker 2: the liquor fits with the heaviness of this day, of
Speaker 2: this week or two weeks.
Speaker 4: I don't know anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm so confused. Like today, I thought it was the
Speaker 1: end of a week, but it's only what Wednesday.
Speaker 4: It's Wednesday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, by the time this comes out, it will probably
Speaker 2: be Friday, and like.
Speaker 4: Who knows what sort of what happened exactly? Who knows?
Speaker 1: I mean. In fact, just before this, I was reading
Speaker 1: or just scanning the a ed written by Senator Tom
Speaker 1: Cotton encouraging Trump to send in the troops. I didn't
Speaker 1: actually read it. I'm not gonna lie. I read the
Speaker 1: headline in the first was.
Speaker 2: Yes, I can't believe that got published. I really can't.
Speaker 1: White guys on Twitter like smart and I'm using air
Speaker 1: quotes that you can't see smart white guys on Twitter,
Speaker 1: smart liberal, woke white guys were like, actually, it might
Speaker 1: be a good thing, because you know, it's so crazy
Speaker 1: and it's like good to know what they actually think
Speaker 1: and that's how you beat them. Blah blah. I was
Speaker 1: just like, no, I'm sorry, there's nothing good about a
Speaker 1: white supremacist senator calling for military action to crush a
Speaker 1: protest yeah paper in the country.
Speaker 2: And also, just by the record, folks, we are talking
Speaker 2: about Senator Tom Cotton.
Speaker 4: This is a grown man who drinks glasses of milk.
Speaker 1: Oh total milk.
Speaker 4: The man is a psycho pet. Yes, you can't trust
Speaker 4: somebody who drinks milk on purpose without coffees.
Speaker 2: Just straight milk, straight milkn It's a psycho path. He's
Speaker 2: definitely a serial killer, yes, yeah, But honestly, of.
Speaker 4: All the things that have happened in.
Speaker 2: The past week and a half, that's kind of one
Speaker 2: of the least bothersome to tell you the truth.
Speaker 4: Because can I.
Speaker 3: Just tell you how awkward it feels to be a
Speaker 3: black person in the climate space right now? I bet yeah,
Speaker 3: so incredibly awkward.
Speaker 1: I'm just watching, like the way that people are trying
Speaker 1: to approach you and other black people right now is
Speaker 1: like very cringey. So I can only imagine actually being
Speaker 1: the person in that.
Speaker 2: You mean to tell you, I have enough love and
Speaker 2: light to fire up a six flags for like eighteen weeks.
Speaker 4: Peace.
Speaker 2: Peace. I haven't made so much love and light in
Speaker 2: my phone right It's like a renewal power source. It's crazy,
Speaker 2: so that's that's one thing, but also just it's been
Speaker 2: this awkward dance of now's we're going again into this
Speaker 2: sort of cycle of now's not the time to talk
Speaker 2: about climate. And I can't tell you how disorienting it is.
Speaker 1: How does yeah, especially for you, but to hear now
Speaker 1: is the time to listen to black people but also
Speaker 1: not the time to talk about climate.
Speaker 2: It's such a strange experience to me to have white
Speaker 2: people come to me and say, now's not the time
Speaker 2: to talk about climate because we need to be worried
Speaker 2: about black people.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, do you not see can you see
Speaker 4: my face? What do you think I am. I don't
Speaker 4: have to like.
Speaker 2: Suddenly care about black lives because I live one. I
Speaker 2: always care about black lives, and the two things are
Speaker 2: not are not extricable from one another. And what I
Speaker 2: hear when I hear people saying that they can't talk
Speaker 2: about climate and talk about racial justice at the same
Speaker 2: time is that I feel like you don't understand either
Speaker 2: one first of all, and also just you're less invested
Speaker 2: in one than you are in the other.
Speaker 1: Yes, totally, it's like the other side of the don't
Speaker 1: bring your identity politics into the climate space coin. And
Speaker 1: it's totally bizarre to me that people who would totally
Speaker 1: reject that argument are making this argument now that like,
Speaker 1: you know, don't bring your climate stuff into racial justice.
Speaker 1: Like what the whole point is that they're combined, guys,
Speaker 1: They're the same thing.
Speaker 4: There's no like special kind of justice.
Speaker 2: Actually, Like the way that we sort of separate these
Speaker 2: things out is like, well, now's the time for racial justice.
Speaker 4: We'll get to climate justice later. Where do you think
Speaker 4: these black lives are going to live if not on
Speaker 4: this planet?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Like my problem hasn't.
Speaker 1: Been and what else is threatening these black lives? Climate change,
Speaker 1: air pollution, environmental racism, Like it's all pandemic.
Speaker 4: Yes, all of this it's the same shit. So like that,
Speaker 4: and it sort of felt like it kind of feels
Speaker 4: like you're always.
Speaker 2: Like swimming upstream or like I don't know what the
Speaker 2: right metaphor is, but it really it feels like climbing
Speaker 2: the wall. You know, I'm honest, because I always feel
Speaker 2: like I have made this point, you know, like I
Speaker 2: write one essay and it's like all right, you kind
Speaker 2: of got it.
Speaker 4: Then you write another essay and then you do something else.
Speaker 2: And like, I can't figure out how to get the
Speaker 2: climate movement to like understand this that talking about one
Speaker 2: does not mean you stop talking about the other.
Speaker 4: I don't. It's so frustrating.
Speaker 2: And I think also I personally feel like I find
Speaker 2: myself in this position where I am kind of looked
Speaker 2: to in the climate movement as the climate movement's black friend.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, and yes, yes.
Speaker 2: Love y'all, but no, that is not that is not
Speaker 2: the service that I'm here to perform.
Speaker 4: No fun another one.
Speaker 2: But like, I've seen a lot of people circulating my
Speaker 2: Green Voices of Color list, which like, I actually hate
Speaker 2: the name of that list.
Speaker 4: I just couldn't think of anything better.
Speaker 2: But and it sort of seems like people think I
Speaker 2: created that list so that white people could then find
Speaker 2: people of color to find.
Speaker 4: I created that list so people of color could.
Speaker 2: Find each other. Actually that is why I created that list.
Speaker 2: I created that list because I felt lonely and I
Speaker 2: felt like a lot of you know, white folks were
Speaker 2: basically treating me like their black climate friend on Twitter.
Speaker 1: And that was happening to lots of other people of
Speaker 1: color in the movement too, right, that like, yeah, greatment to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like, Oh, something racist happened, Mary, What do
Speaker 4: we do?
Speaker 5: I be a fucking human try this.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, it's been.
Speaker 2: An awkward position. I'll talk more about it in this
Speaker 2: week's newsletter. But and it's just it's tough because this
Speaker 2: is a painful moment, like I'm actually it might be
Speaker 2: a teachable moment for other people, but right now for me,
Speaker 2: it is a painful moment. And I've had to take
Speaker 2: a step back from social media because it just became
Speaker 2: like this endless river of trauma porn and I can't
Speaker 2: take it anymore, Like I can't. It's something different to
Speaker 2: watch people be hurt, like I've never been that person
Speaker 2: who could do that.
Speaker 4: I've never been able.
Speaker 2: To watch horror movies or you know, documentaries where people
Speaker 2: get hurt like I actually feel like it's happening to me,
Speaker 2: like I physically feel the pain. So that's one thing,
Speaker 2: But then you layer in that the people getting hurt
Speaker 2: are getting a hurt because they look like me, and
Speaker 2: should I leave my apartment that could easily happen to me.
Speaker 2: Also because I live in one of the cities where
Speaker 2: that's really you know, it's really serious right now, So
Speaker 2: it feels really different and I can't just like, I
Speaker 2: can't divorce myself from that. So I am trying my
Speaker 2: best to take a break from Twitter, but yeah, it
Speaker 2: just feels like a lot of unnecessary pressure at a
Speaker 2: really painful moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well, and then on top of people texting
Speaker 1: you or people sharing their various takes, there's this, uh
Speaker 1: you know, I know you and I have talked about this,
Speaker 1: that there's this kind of like, excuse me, woke Olympics
Speaker 1: happening right now on.
Speaker 4: So I would like to if I like to call
Speaker 4: it the wokies, the wokies.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I like, I cannot watch any more white
Speaker 1: women lecturing each other to try to like prove how
Speaker 1: much more woke they are. It's just like guys, just yeah, honestly,
Speaker 1: like I do feel like well and this black Square
Speaker 1: thing too, Like you want to take a break from
Speaker 1: your self absorption, just shut the fuck up and get
Speaker 1: off social media for a day.
Speaker 4: Then, you know what, that is very fy. You can
Speaker 4: do that for free, ninety nine totally free.
Speaker 1: You might not get any credit for it, but it
Speaker 1: will actually help.
Speaker 2: Or how strange it is to have white people tell
Speaker 2: you as a black person that Black Lives matter.
Speaker 4: That is genuinely disorienting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because it's like, what did you think before? Did
Speaker 5: you think I didn't know that or did you not
Speaker 5: know that? Both of those things are disturbing and it's awesome.
Speaker 5: And also it's like I pisces.
Speaker 1: Me off that it's like every time there's an example,
Speaker 1: like an extreme example of racism in this country, like
Speaker 1: police killing a black person in custody who is unarmed,
Speaker 1: which unfortunately there's been many examples of, but it's like
Speaker 1: every time there's this whole upswelling and all these hashtags
Speaker 1: and Twitter avatars and whatever. Yeah, and like if any
Speaker 1: of that did anything, then we wouldn't still be having
Speaker 1: that should happen, you know, right, Like right, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I understand that everyone wants to everyone feels a little
Speaker 1: bit disempowered and wants to do something and you know,
Speaker 1: wants to help and maybe doesn't feel like they can
Speaker 1: go out to a protest or like that, you know,
Speaker 1: might be worrying if that's even the right thing, which
Speaker 1: is something we're gonna get into like some of the
Speaker 1: ways that the protests have been co opted in how
Speaker 1: to kind of parse that. But like I just I
Speaker 1: don't know this, ain't it?
Speaker 4: Folks?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, be careful about the amount of pressure that
Speaker 6: you're putting on your black friends right now, because.
Speaker 2: We're all like very clearly at a breaking point. We
Speaker 2: also don't want I've ranted about this on Twitter. We
Speaker 2: don't want to process everything with our white friends. Like
Speaker 2: we might love you and respect you and value you,
Speaker 2: but I don't want to process everything with my white friends.
Speaker 4: I just don't write like there's.
Speaker 2: I remember this actually when when Beyonce's Lemonade album came out,
Speaker 2: like that was a very big moment for black women,
Speaker 2: and I had so many white women friends being like
Speaker 2: wanting to talk to me about it, and I was.
Speaker 4: Like, can I kick you back the fuck off? Or
Speaker 4: like after speaking on a panel.
Speaker 2: And I know a lot of other women of color
Speaker 2: I've had this experience because I've heard them talk about it.
Speaker 2: You speak on a panel as a woman of color,
Speaker 2: and all of these white women are waiting for you
Speaker 2: as soon as you get off the stage, and they're
Speaker 2: like in tears about how much you move them and
Speaker 2: how much you talk them and blah blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: and you're just like, now, you got to console on me.
Speaker 4: Now, you gotta put this bitch back together.
Speaker 2: And on the other side of her as all these
Speaker 2: other women of color that you actually want to connect with,
Speaker 2: but they're trying to give you a moment, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: could you please bum rush her?
Speaker 4: I think you are right, I.
Speaker 1: Don't understand it, like they, like a lot of people
Speaker 1: think that they're reaching out to support you, but what
Speaker 1: they're actually doing is asking for emotional labor from you.
Speaker 1: And I just feel like people need to be way
Speaker 1: more careful about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know exactly.
Speaker 1: Even if it's like I just want to make sure
Speaker 1: you're okay, or I just want this or whatever, it's
Speaker 1: just like, you know, I don't know, Yeah, just like
Speaker 1: be careful about asking for anything from the people that
Speaker 1: you're that you want to be helping.
Speaker 4: I guess yeah.
Speaker 2: Actually what I what I said is I get that
Speaker 2: you want your friend to know that you're there and
Speaker 2: that you care. Like I understand that, but it really
Speaker 2: makes a big difference if you say something like I
Speaker 2: don't expect you to respond yes, that makes such a
Speaker 2: huge difference. Just like to you, it's like, oh, one text,
Speaker 2: what's the big deal, I'm being a nice person.
Speaker 4: I also apply that by seventy Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then you get an idea of what I'm talking
Speaker 2: about here seventy emails, and now you have to respond
Speaker 2: to and get into like deep in your feelings about
Speaker 2: like how you're doing really and like, yes, separately process
Speaker 2: this extremely painful thing with seventy different people who who,
Speaker 2: by their own admission, could never understand.
Speaker 4: Whereas I could.
Speaker 2: Just go talk to like my cousins I've known my
Speaker 2: whole life and live the same experience as me, or
Speaker 2: like my college friends who you know, like I could
Speaker 2: talk to my black friends. Basically, It's what I'm saying here,
Speaker 2: like I don't have to process this with someone to
Speaker 2: whom I'm also having to explain what racism every day
Speaker 2: feels like.
Speaker 1: Right right. I was thinking about it in terms of
Speaker 1: of like maybe maybe a helpful way for people to
Speaker 1: think about it would be like if your friend had
Speaker 1: a family member or close friend die, like you would
Speaker 1: send them this, like hope everything's okay. Don't feel obligated
Speaker 1: to respond right now, right Like.
Speaker 2: I feel like people should take that approach right now,
Speaker 2: right and whatever.
Speaker 4: You do, don't take it personally. Yeah, it's not about you.
Speaker 4: So if your friend doesn't respond.
Speaker 2: Or if your friend like you know, says I just
Speaker 2: I literally can't deal with you right now.
Speaker 4: It's not about.
Speaker 1: You, Yeah, exactly exactly. I want to talk about a
Speaker 1: little bit more about sort of why it's so problematic
Speaker 1: that people are doing the like it's not time to
Speaker 1: talk about climate now, and how much that shows about
Speaker 1: how much farther we have to go for people to
Speaker 1: understand that these things are always interconnected and that they're
Speaker 1: just you know, one type of justice and that's it,
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, worth talking about all the time,
Speaker 1: because mostly I'm seeing that sentiment from very well meaning
Speaker 1: progressive non black people. There's this issue of like it's
Speaker 1: not really your place to say what it is or
Speaker 1: isn't time to talk about right now for one thing,
Speaker 1: for one thing, and b that like you know, just
Speaker 1: like we said about the coronavirus pandemic, that climate doesn't
Speaker 1: stop for a pandemic. It doesn't stop for you know,
Speaker 1: a police killing either, Unfortunately, you know, it doesn't. It
Speaker 1: doesn't stop for any of this stuff. And like right now,
Speaker 1: there's a hurricane building off the off the Gulf coast
Speaker 1: that could very negatively impact a whole lot of people
Speaker 1: of color, but.
Speaker 4: Also climate change and heat waves and hurricanes.
Speaker 2: Actually makes police murders more likely because it makes all
Speaker 2: violence more likely. So like it is a threat multiplier,
Speaker 2: that's what that's what a threat multiplier means. So police
Speaker 2: brutality is an existing threat, climate change will multiply that
Speaker 2: by ten. And there that's yet another one of the
Speaker 2: reasons that we actually don't talk about about why Black
Speaker 2: people are more likely to be susceptible to climate change
Speaker 2: because we're already we're in chronic crisis. So now you
Speaker 2: add yet another acute crisis, not even on top of that,
Speaker 2: but underneath it, like on the ground on which we stand,
Speaker 2: the era which we breathe, the water we drink, literate like,
Speaker 2: have us encased in yet another crisis that makes us
Speaker 2: like even more vulnerable. So actually, what you shouldn't it's
Speaker 2: not necessarily this is just more proof of why climate
Speaker 2: marches and climate strikes need to include Black Lives Matter.
Speaker 2: And it also you know, underscores why Black Lives Matter
Speaker 2: already has climate as part of this platform because they
Speaker 2: already understand that. So like if I see if I
Speaker 2: see someone at a climate march with the Black Lives
Speaker 2: Matter sign.
Speaker 4: I don't want to hear, actually, this is the climate march,
Speaker 4: and you're.
Speaker 2: At the wrong march. Like, no, they're at the right
Speaker 2: fucking march. You just don't understand what justice.
Speaker 1: Is, yes, exactly. Yeah, like the idea, I've heard some
Speaker 1: people say like, oh, you know, we shouldn't be having
Speaker 1: climate marches right now, it's not the right time, or like,
Speaker 1: you know, to put the climate strike on hold and whatever.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, this is it's always the right time.
Speaker 1: And again because we're out of time, because we're out
Speaker 1: of time, and these things are all different aspects of
Speaker 1: the same issue, which is a total lack of justice,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: And I've also heard people being like, you know, how
Speaker 2: did we get here, And the answer is this is
Speaker 2: where we started.
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, we never been here.
Speaker 1: We've always been.
Speaker 4: We never moved.
Speaker 2: So and that's also where you get a crisis like climate.
Speaker 2: It didn't just come out of carbon molecules that just
Speaker 2: you know, happen to wind up in the air.
Speaker 1: Change is a was a preventable problem and is a
Speaker 1: solvable problem. The people and the structures that have prevented
Speaker 1: us from solving it are totally part and personal with colonialism,
Speaker 1: white supremacy, capitalism. It's it's power imbalance. It's like it's
Speaker 1: not a science problem, it's a power problem. And like,
Speaker 1: you know, I just I don't understand why that is
Speaker 1: still tough for people to get like, it's not it
Speaker 1: trust me, it is really not about figuring out energy storage.
Speaker 1: That is not why. Right, I've seen a bunch of
Speaker 1: climate people being like, you know, okay, climate groups, you
Speaker 1: need to show up for Black Lives Matter, and it's like, like,
Speaker 1: I know that people are trying. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be like shitting on people's good faith efforts, you know, right,
Speaker 1: because I do think people are really trying to be better.
Speaker 1: And I definitely know that, you know, the climate movement
Speaker 1: even five or six years ago wouldn't have even thought
Speaker 1: that they needed to say anything about Black Lives Matter,
Speaker 1: So you know that's.
Speaker 4: They would have been extremely like, you know, rejecting it.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, So I'm glad that there are calls
Speaker 1: for climate groups to get out and march with but
Speaker 1: it's almost phrased as this, like let's do a favor.
Speaker 4: Rights like charity work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like then the now no, like these
Speaker 1: are all again, It's just it's all the same issue.
Speaker 1: It should be all the same groups of people fighting
Speaker 1: for it, right.
Speaker 5: It's like.
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, we need to talk about black lives matter,
Speaker 2: so that means we can't talk about climate for a while,
Speaker 2: we have to put climate on ice. No, you don't, right,
Speaker 2: I have never even when I was talking about climate,
Speaker 2: I always talked about how black lives matter. I always
Speaker 2: talked about black issues because these are all my issues.
Speaker 2: I don't see a conflict in talking about you know,
Speaker 2: don't shoot me versus don't you know, kill me with
Speaker 2: the carbon magnifying glass.
Speaker 1: If that exacts sense exactly, Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I find it.
Speaker 2: It's such a frustrating place to be, and it's like,
Speaker 2: no matter how many times I try to find the words,
Speaker 2: they never seem to penetrate that these are not separate things, right.
Speaker 1: These kind of conversations and arguments have been had with
Speaker 1: people in the movement or even outside of it, who
Speaker 1: you know, are kind of quite conservative and are and
Speaker 1: make the argument that like, oh, you know, these justice
Speaker 1: issues are a distraction and it takes too long to
Speaker 1: solve social justice and all of that, and so's it's
Speaker 1: actually it's really frustrating and kind of surprising to see
Speaker 1: people who would never buy into that argument now making this,
Speaker 1: like thinking that they're being really really you know, progressive
Speaker 1: and aware, making this argument that you know, you shouldn't
Speaker 1: talk about climate right now because it's the time to
Speaker 1: talk about racial justice.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, you too, Yeah, yeah, I thought we've
Speaker 2: been over this.
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think it's because the climate movement has always
Speaker 2: sort of acted like they see themselves as being in
Speaker 2: this really professorial kind of position where they're like going
Speaker 2: to come in and teach other people. So like, I
Speaker 2: think the way that they see it is if we
Speaker 2: connect climate or if we talk about climate now, then
Speaker 2: we're going to be usurping the conversation.
Speaker 1: Yes, we don't want to take up space, blah blah.
Speaker 1: But I feel like part of that is that is
Speaker 1: like seeing climate as a white issue too, you know exactly.
Speaker 1: They totays see it as I don't want to take
Speaker 1: up space, and it's like, uh, this isn't everyone issue.
Speaker 1: It's a justice issue. It's not like, in fact, it's
Speaker 1: only minimally a white issue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, most people on the planet aren't white, surprise, surprise.
Speaker 2: But I think they always kind of see them.
Speaker 4: The way that they can.
Speaker 2: Issues is always like, oh, well, you're worried about, you know,
Speaker 2: police brutality. Actually you need to be worried about the
Speaker 2: polar bears because that's a bigger problem, right, Like they
Speaker 2: always have to trump, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 2: somebody else's problem, right, Like we saw this, we talked
Speaker 2: about this in the newsletter with the pandemic. You don't
Speaker 2: have to if you want to connect climate and COVID,
Speaker 2: you don't have to be like, well, climate's actually bigger
Speaker 2: than COVID, so you need to be worried about climate instead, because,
Speaker 2: believe me, you can worry about more than one thing
Speaker 2: at a time, and you don't have to play this
Speaker 2: game of my disasters.
Speaker 4: Bigger than yours.
Speaker 2: It's not really not necessary, right right, yeah, right, Like
Speaker 2: you can just connect the dots because they're not unconnected.
Speaker 2: They're damn near bleeding together.
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, so yeah, yeah, it's frustrating.
Speaker 2: Okay, So in our full length episode, we are going
Speaker 2: to talk about this rising movement called the Boogloo Boys.
Speaker 2: They're actually not rising. They've been around for a long
Speaker 2: time terrifying.
Speaker 4: They are terrifying.
Speaker 2: And I found a few articles about it and I
Speaker 2: shared with Amy, and I terrified her. We're gonna talk
Speaker 2: about that, and we're also going to talk about the
Speaker 2: Boogaloo boys reminded me a lot of the vigilante groups
Speaker 2: that terrorize New Orleans after Katrina, and so I'm going
Speaker 2: to terrify Amy even more by making her read through
Speaker 2: some of those articles. If you want to hear that
Speaker 2: full episode, which I think is actually really really important,
Speaker 2: not just for this moment, but how Boogloo could and
Speaker 2: will interact with climate change, you should subscribe to our
Speaker 2: newsletter and you will get the full episode.
Speaker 1: Yes, do it, This is gonna be good.
Speaker 7: M hm
Speaker 4: Hm