Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories done Dune.
Speaker 2: Hello, that's a Seinfeld reference. This is That's messed up
Speaker 2: an SVU podcast. My name is Lisa Trigger.
Speaker 3: Hi.
Speaker 1: Hi, my name is Kara Klink. Hi, Lisa Trigger. You
Speaker 1: know what we do on this pod? You guys, we
Speaker 1: are going to go through an episode of SVU. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the true grumbas based on and
Speaker 1: we're going to interview some super talented person from the episode.
Speaker 1: And I'm so excited for today's episode. Oh yeah, we
Speaker 1: have an awesome interview today. And before we start that,
Speaker 1: I just like to find out what's going on on
Speaker 1: with Lisa. You know, same old, same old, just suitcase
Speaker 1: hotels out and about trying to control my life.
Speaker 3: But I can't stop.
Speaker 2: I am really excited because carl I stopped watching Project
Speaker 2: Runway when Carli Kloss became the host, and now she
Speaker 2: has gone and there's a new season of Project Runway
Speaker 2: and I feel blessed beyond.
Speaker 3: Belief and there's just no model now.
Speaker 2: There's no host, so like Brandon Maxwell is the lead
Speaker 2: judge slash host, and Christian Siriano is such an involved
Speaker 2: mentor in the workroom. And I like all the people.
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of drama in the second episode,
Speaker 1: but I'm just happy to have Wait, so can I
Speaker 1: just ask Christian is like the Tim Gunn now, but
Speaker 1: Tim Gunn never sat in on the judging. Does Christian
Speaker 1: sit in on the judging? No he doesn't, Okay, got it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally Tim Gunn, same vibes, got it.
Speaker 3: I love Tim Gunn. What do you think he up to?
Speaker 2: Hopefully teaching, still inspiring people, working on a set, styling,
Speaker 2: writing a book, making money, retired, whatever he wants.
Speaker 3: Honestly, let's head to mood. I love him. I like
Speaker 3: the Red Lobster.
Speaker 2: It's wild that Santino was a judge on Drag Race
Speaker 2: early seasons.
Speaker 1: Santino is terrible. Wait, what do you mean Santino tells
Speaker 1: people not to get the vaccine. Santino is a nutball.
Speaker 1: He's like, do not get the vaccine?
Speaker 3: Oh, but he was.
Speaker 2: They got rid of him on drag Race well before
Speaker 2: vaccine chats right, Sure, I'm talking about nowadays.
Speaker 3: Santina is a bad person.
Speaker 2: He was not that good of a person during his
Speaker 2: season either. He was known as the asshole. Talented but
Speaker 2: an asshole.
Speaker 3: Isn't he?
Speaker 1: What like you and your no no drag knowledge to
Speaker 1: have an ass is not like about him? Like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it is wild. He was a judge on that show
Speaker 1: and for a while.
Speaker 2: But a lot of people, I mean Carson and Ross
Speaker 2: don't know drag, right, they don't do drag.
Speaker 1: They don't do it, but they're gay. They're part of
Speaker 1: the community. I mean, he's fashion, but he's not gay,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know why did ru choose him? Like
Speaker 2: That's what I'm trying to figure out, Like.
Speaker 3: What I don't know. I guess because of the fashion
Speaker 3: part of it.
Speaker 1: He was supposed to look at like their fashions and
Speaker 1: be like, you know, and he would tell them that
Speaker 1: they look like hookers or something, right, didn't he always
Speaker 1: like use the wrong words.
Speaker 2: I don't know, But I I just love skilled competition
Speaker 2: reality shows and Bravo Excels and Drag Race of course,
Speaker 2: but like I love when people have a passion and
Speaker 2: they're exhibiting their inspiration and skills and competing and funny.
Speaker 3: I just like, oh.
Speaker 1: God, yeah, I think that I've always gravitated more towards
Speaker 1: skill based reality. Except for my housewives. None of them
Speaker 1: have many skills. Oh they got a skill. They have skills.
Speaker 2: Some of them do to irritate my fucking heart and
Speaker 2: brain and nervous stum.
Speaker 3: I know that you are. You do watch Atlanta? Did
Speaker 3: you hear? I heard today?
Speaker 1: But I don't know if it's real that Marlow is
Speaker 1: becoming a cast member.
Speaker 3: I would be thrilled Marlow's getting a peach baby.
Speaker 2: I hope Marlow gets a peach, and I hope Dere
Speaker 2: you know, gets eaten by a shark that Marlow catches.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's what I That's what I believe.
Speaker 2: The way she talked to Garcel, she has not she
Speaker 2: has not yelled at another housewipe the way she yelled
Speaker 2: at Garcel.
Speaker 3: That bitch is not for me, but Lisa.
Speaker 1: Her children are exposed to people of brown and black
Speaker 1: skin color all the time, and they're in the employ
Speaker 1: of the Pique family. She's terrible. I've always hated to eat.
Speaker 1: I don't know why she's there. I don't even think.
Speaker 1: I don't know, And now we have to look at
Speaker 1: her one hundred and thirty thousand dollars wedding dresses or whatever. No,
Speaker 1: I think it was a thirty five thousand dollars wedding
Speaker 1: dress that she was selling. I do have to say this.
Speaker 2: My cousin did have a thirty thousand dollars wedding dress
Speaker 2: by Derate.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: Wow, well there we go by Panina Tornay custuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a penina. It was aad I yeah. I
Speaker 1: think it's so funny how the wedding world has like
Speaker 1: its own full like celebrity fashion, Like like the designers
Speaker 1: of wedding dresses are just like, oh, it's a Pinina.
Speaker 1: Like nobody that hasn't gotten married has heard of that.
Speaker 1: Like that's never on like in Vogue, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean?
Speaker 3: Like yeah, or like I'm Sally, or I'm Solid, I'm Salah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even I'm Sala in my closet right now. Its
Speaker 1: aid a bridesmaid's dress.
Speaker 3: Wow. No, I didn't pay for it. That was actually
Speaker 3: a friend of mine.
Speaker 1: That was a friend of mine who had me as
Speaker 1: a bridesmaid when I was like a new I was
Speaker 1: like a new comic, and she was like, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna pay for your dress. All my other bridesmaids like
Speaker 1: have lucrative jobs. This is a drop in the bucket
Speaker 1: compared to like a wedding. I'm just going to pay
Speaker 1: for it for you. And I was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: to argue. Thank you, Like, are you guys still friends?
Speaker 3: Yes, my daughter Marty, you've met her? Okay, great? Thank
Speaker 3: Mary for Chicago. That wedding was in Chicago. My god,
Speaker 3: the one with eight hundred kids going to the aquarium. Yes,
Speaker 3: that's Marty.
Speaker 1: She took my child and her four child children to
Speaker 1: the aquarium by herself. She's a psycho. Beautiful home though. Oh,
Speaker 1: they just sold it. They just sold it. They moved
Speaker 1: somewhere else, but they're still in Chicago. So we'll see
Speaker 1: it next time we go to Chicago. We'll see what
Speaker 1: the new helm is.
Speaker 3: No, I'm glad she paid for it.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've talked about this already, but
Speaker 2: when I got to wear a Jessica McClintock dressed to
Speaker 2: my sister's wedding when I was in sixth grade, that
Speaker 2: really meant a lot to me.
Speaker 3: Do you know that was my senior prom dress?
Speaker 1: Was it?
Speaker 3: Jessica mcclintalk. I could have guessed.
Speaker 1: If I had three guesses, I could have guessed because
Speaker 1: I loved her.
Speaker 3: I loved her too.
Speaker 1: This dress is so insane. I'm going to put it
Speaker 1: on the Instagram. You guys are going to see my
Speaker 1: brother dress, and you got to put up your Jessica
Speaker 1: m'clintalk from your sisters. We're doing a Jessica m'clintalk parasite.
Speaker 3: That's a great idea. Oh my god, I can't wait.
Speaker 3: I love a TV. But why did she go under?
Speaker 3: It's so weird. She meant so much to me. Oh,
Speaker 3: it's it doesn't exist anymore, not in the same capacity.
Speaker 2: I don't think, like, I don't have you seen When
Speaker 2: was the last time you heard of a Jessica McClintock.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't go to prom anymore.
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't think that anybody besides like high
Speaker 1: school girls wore Jessica mcclintok.
Speaker 3: Oh, you don't think it was also Brides made Heavy?
Speaker 1: No, I not that I thought of interesting interesting.
Speaker 3: But maybe I could be wrong.
Speaker 1: I used to read ym and seventeen and like when
Speaker 1: prom was coming up, that was like ev like multiple spread,
Speaker 1: like page spread for Jessica mcclintalk.
Speaker 3: I was a teen People girl. Ooh that was my favorite.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I was Mademoiselle. Were you Mademoiselle?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And I also liked Sassy.
Speaker 1: But one time I got Sassy and the cover said
Speaker 1: chicks with Sticks. It was about girl drummers, and my
Speaker 1: mom thought that was like a little bit much and
Speaker 1: said that I couldn't read that magazine anymore.
Speaker 3: They were cheeky. But did you even get the cheekiness? Yeah, no,
Speaker 3: I didn't think. I was like, yeah, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't think I was gonna get some kind of
Speaker 1: pornographic penis material at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I miss magazine culture. I'll get a Vanity.
Speaker 3: Fair here and there.
Speaker 1: But I subscribed to Vanity Fair. But that's just because
Speaker 1: it was like eight dollars for a full year. Because
Speaker 1: they were all like the magazine industry is dying so
Speaker 1: hard that they want they'll do anything for you, I know.
Speaker 3: But Vanity Fair is good, like they're so good.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just everything changed because I used to
Speaker 2: love US Weekly and stuff, but like we have Instagram,
Speaker 2: there's just like those don't really translate.
Speaker 1: I like those when I'm getting my nails done if
Speaker 1: they have it, yeah, you know, but like I'm not
Speaker 1: buying it anymore because we have Instagram. Also, I got
Speaker 1: really annoyed at people when they like put after one
Speaker 1: of their reporters claimed that Donald Trump assaulted her, they
Speaker 1: put him like on their cover two weeks later, and
Speaker 1: that made me really annoyed, and I was kind of like,
Speaker 1: I think I'm done with people, but I dabble.
Speaker 3: If it's at the nail salon.
Speaker 2: Well now because of COVID, that's another thing. There are
Speaker 2: no magazines at the nail sae.
Speaker 3: That's why. Oh wow, I forgot. Yeah, realize, No.
Speaker 2: Sometimes things happen and you're like, why not that, and
Speaker 2: it's like, oh yeah the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I forget. All right, let's truly forget about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's get going to today's episode. It's another goodie and
Speaker 1: we just we can't wait to get going, all right.
Speaker 1: Today's episode is Imprisoned Lives. It is season fifteen, episode
Speaker 1: two on Hulu. They have this as one episode, so
Speaker 1: if you are starting to watch this, it starts halfway
Speaker 1: through the Hulu episode at about the forty two minute
Speaker 1: and forty one second mark.
Speaker 3: Just an FYI to you guys.
Speaker 2: And it's like it's not just only like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: a little bit of another episode. Bada bing bada boom.
Speaker 2: It's like the worst episode of all time. It's Marishka
Speaker 2: and fucking William Lewis.
Speaker 1: So it's also like, get this. You cannot force this
Speaker 1: on me. Yeah, they should be separated. Hulu needs to
Speaker 1: stop what they're doing. These are separate episodes on other platforms,
Speaker 1: they are separate. So it is the second episode of
Speaker 1: season fifteen, but it is the second part of the
Speaker 1: two parter, and the first part is Olivia escaping from
Speaker 1: the clutches of the evil William Lewis played by Pablo Sharper,
Speaker 1: who everybody says is hot, but I truly I cannot
Speaker 1: see his hotness because of pornstash on Orange Is and
Speaker 1: New Black and William Lewis on this show. I guess
Speaker 1: I when I look at his Instagram, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I do see an attractive man there, but I just
Speaker 1: like I can't get it going for him because of
Speaker 1: the horrible characters he's played.
Speaker 2: No, and maybe if it was one horrible character, but
Speaker 2: to that whor, it's like, bro get away from me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean wildly, he probably doesn't give a
Speaker 1: shit because he probably has a super hot wife. But
Speaker 1: I think he should know that it's hard for me
Speaker 1: to find him attractive. But we basically this episode opens
Speaker 1: with a two two months later card at the bottom
Speaker 1: and we see Olivia returning to her trashed apartment. We
Speaker 1: see a chair knocked over with like duct tape tied
Speaker 1: to it. The place has just been totally like fucked up,
Speaker 1: And this is like one of those things that I
Speaker 1: think the show kind of touches on about being a
Speaker 1: victim of a crime like this that you don't see
Speaker 1: in like other movies in media, Like, yeah, if you
Speaker 1: get attacked in your apartment, like you have to go
Speaker 1: back to your apartment, the police don't clean it up
Speaker 1: for you after they come and like dust it for
Speaker 1: prints and like take everything apart or like whatever that
Speaker 1: like there's blood.
Speaker 3: On the carpet.
Speaker 1: Like I just think it's a very interesting thing that
Speaker 1: they touch on, and like a lot of women that
Speaker 1: are assaulted don't have the option to just be like
Speaker 1: and then I just got a new apartment because I
Speaker 1: couldn't go back there, you know, Like that's not an
Speaker 1: option for a lot of people. So it's really fucked
Speaker 1: up if you are assaulted in your home, like how
Speaker 1: you have to deal with that. I just was was
Speaker 1: making me think of that when I saw the horrors
Speaker 1: that Olivia was walking in on. And you can tell
Speaker 1: she's taken a by walking in there, like she has
Speaker 1: not walked in there since the incident, and she's having
Speaker 1: full flashbacks of what happened. We see Cassidy is with her,
Speaker 1: He's trying to help her, but she's very like, I
Speaker 1: got it, I'm.
Speaker 3: Fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 1: And then we cut to her being like I'm fine,
Speaker 1: straight to her in a self defense type workout class,
Speaker 1: like and it really makes me miss working out in
Speaker 1: a class with people. I mean, not in a self
Speaker 1: defense class, but you know, I really like boxing in
Speaker 1: zoomba and group activities and I'm not doing that right
Speaker 1: now with the pandemic. And now then we're in her
Speaker 1: therapist's office. Who is doctor Peter Lindstrom played by Bill Irwin.
Speaker 1: And we've talked about him before, but I don't think
Speaker 1: we've touched on his background this actor. I looked him
Speaker 1: up and he is a Tony Award winner for Who's
Speaker 1: Afraid Of Virginia Wolf on Broadway. He's also mister Noodle
Speaker 1: on Sesame Street on Elmo's World. I don't know if
Speaker 1: we ever touched on that, but.
Speaker 2: I would have maybe put some respect on his name
Speaker 2: if I knew he had a tony.
Speaker 3: I've been very How are you disrespectful to this guy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bro has a tony and Bro is one of
Speaker 1: Elmo's tight tight homies. So liv is telling doctor Lindstrom
Speaker 1: how she is really angry. And I don't think we've
Speaker 1: seen Olivia before, William Lewis, I don't think we've seen
Speaker 1: Olivia in therapy besides the Slaves episode where she's.
Speaker 3: Getting like mandated therapy from the department.
Speaker 1: Like, this is the first time we see her in
Speaker 1: like a therapeutic situation.
Speaker 2: So she's telling me, what about after the jail rape moment?
Speaker 3: Did she have did she go to therapy? I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm asking, Yeah, I don't. I don't remember a therapist.
Speaker 3: That's why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they've yeah, like she's also been evaluated
Speaker 1: by Mary Stewart Masterson. There's been like little adjacent things,
Speaker 1: but this is the first time I feel like we
Speaker 1: see her in serious therapy and she's telling doctor Lindstrom
Speaker 1: how she's really angry that Lewis should have been caught
Speaker 1: and then his victims wouldn't have been raped.
Speaker 3: And then he's like, and.
Speaker 1: How you were raped, and she's like, I wasn't raped,
Speaker 1: just assaulted, just badly assaulted.
Speaker 3: So I think we do get the sense that she wasn't.
Speaker 1: Actually I used to think it was very ambiguous, but
Speaker 1: I think it's clear she wasn't raped by him, just
Speaker 1: assaulted horribly. And he's trying to get her to drop
Speaker 1: the tough gal act and admit that something very traumatic
Speaker 1: happened to her and that it's okay to not be okay,
Speaker 1: and she's, you know, she's just talking about how her
Speaker 1: apartment is so dark. She went back there, she realized
Speaker 1: that she hasn't really thrived there, and she thinks she's
Speaker 1: ready to go back to work.
Speaker 3: She's taking pages from Maloney. She's like, let me back
Speaker 3: at work.
Speaker 1: You know. The doctor asks if SVU is the best
Speaker 1: place for her at the moment, and he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're reevaluating your relationship with your home and your relationship
Speaker 1: with your person, and it would make sense to look
Speaker 1: at your job too, And he asks, have you given
Speaker 1: any thought to the toll that this job takes on you.
Speaker 1: And she's like, not for a second. He doesn't get
Speaker 1: to take that from me. So it's really serious. Like
Speaker 1: nobody takes SVU away from Olivia, and she said the
Speaker 1: thought of leaving SVU doesn't scare her. What scares her
Speaker 1: is walking back into the squad and everyone looking at
Speaker 1: her and wondering if she's okay. I deeply relate to this.
Speaker 1: I feel like so many times I like cry over
Speaker 1: things where I'm just like people are looking at me,
Speaker 1: people are asking about me, and I just want everyone
Speaker 1: to ignore me right now or something.
Speaker 3: Do you know that you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like to me, the eyes of other people makes it more,
Speaker 1: It makes it worse than the actual thing that happened.
Speaker 3: So I relate.
Speaker 1: And then we cut to that moment where she is
Speaker 1: walking back into the squad room and everyone is staring
Speaker 1: at her and they got her Bodega flowers and like
Speaker 1: a grocery store balloon. I wanted more. I feel like,
Speaker 1: you guys could have done better. Yeah, they don't have taste,
Speaker 1: you know, they're yeah, but like a florist, it feels
Speaker 1: like one of them was like quick go on the
Speaker 1: corner while you're getting your coffee and grab her a
Speaker 1: cup of like Wilting Carnations, Like but you know.
Speaker 2: No, but I think now maybe they're smart. What season
Speaker 2: is no, this is fifteen. Yeah, it's weird that they
Speaker 2: didn't have a florist in town down the block, Like
Speaker 2: people are getting shot at all the time? Aren't they
Speaker 2: sending flowers often?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Or is everyone constantly her? I don't know. They do
Speaker 3: seem clueless here.
Speaker 2: I also was very moved when she was like, he's
Speaker 2: not taking my job away, because I feel that happens
Speaker 2: sometimes like that. It's like an easy solution if something
Speaker 2: bad's happening. It's like why don't you just quit your
Speaker 2: job or like don't go online?
Speaker 1: Well, like literally, it's kind of what just happened on
Speaker 1: the current season of SVU with Kat, Like they had
Speaker 1: her character do something that I mean, we can talk
Speaker 1: about it more in depth another time, but like they
Speaker 1: had Kat be like I don't think I can handle
Speaker 1: le s VU anymore after she gets shot, and it's like, what,
Speaker 1: that's not your character at all. Your character is the
Speaker 1: kind of person that would be completely like nothing's going
Speaker 1: to take this away from me, you know, and she
Speaker 1: instead is like this is maybe too much for me.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go do something else. And because she gets shot,
Speaker 1: so you're right, it does happen. I think these are
Speaker 1: two different things. Well, what are you saying because he
Speaker 1: made that decision.
Speaker 2: I just feel I was reminded, like someone was talking
Speaker 2: about being harassed online all the time, and someone was like,
Speaker 2: just get off the internet, and it's like, what the
Speaker 2: fuck what are you talking about. I can't be online
Speaker 2: because of that, or it's like I can't go to
Speaker 2: my job because this motherfucker.
Speaker 3: It's like that's not an actual solution, right, that's why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm saying with the cat thing that they
Speaker 1: made that the solution, and I don't think that that
Speaker 1: was the right move.
Speaker 2: But she made her own solution. I mean the writers,
Speaker 2: but like in she made her own.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like Benson going, I don't know, you should
Speaker 3: probably get out of here. You're right, she just had
Speaker 3: this girlfriend. She was like, fuck this, I don't want
Speaker 3: to get shot at. I just want to kind of
Speaker 3: like solve chiller crimes.
Speaker 1: That doesn't seem very cat like to me, But I
Speaker 1: understand a person saying no, You're.
Speaker 3: Right, it didn't seem like her she wanted to save people.
Speaker 3: She did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Anyway, in the squad room, like Olivia's like what
Speaker 1: no cake, like trying to make a joke.
Speaker 3: And Rollins's like, oh, we're going to get you cupcakes.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's just very awkward, like no one
Speaker 1: knows how to talk to her because she's like, they're big,
Speaker 1: strong Benson who's had this horrific thing happened to her,
Speaker 1: and I think no one.
Speaker 3: Knows how to like look at her or deal with her.
Speaker 1: So Craigan's like, welcome back, Detective Benson, and we're off.
Speaker 1: And now we're in Times Square and there's a big
Speaker 1: purple mascot named Momo who's invented. It's like a guy
Speaker 1: in a costume, the way that at Times Square it's
Speaker 1: usually like fucking cookie monster and a minion or whatever.
Speaker 3: And this just reminded me of the Momo Challenge.
Speaker 1: You remember this, Lisa, where there was like people thought
Speaker 1: that there's this like creepy drawing called Momo, and they
Speaker 1: were like, if your kid sees Momo on the internet,
Speaker 1: they'll kill themselves. It was like a full hoax on
Speaker 1: the internet. But like adults were believing it. They were like,
Speaker 1: don't look at Momo videos and it's like it wasn't real.
Speaker 3: She is scary though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the drawing of it is very creepy pasta, it's
Speaker 1: very slender Man adjacent. Creepy, yeah, for sure, but alas
Speaker 1: it's not making people do anything to themselves. So this
Speaker 1: little kid named Buddy runs away from his dad and
Speaker 1: was running towards Momo.
Speaker 3: He's like Momo and the dad's like, Buddy, come back.
Speaker 1: Here, and he's hugging Momo and he's so happy to
Speaker 1: see him, and he like won't let go of him,
Speaker 1: and then the dad runs up to get Buddy and
Speaker 1: Momo's like trying to sell him on a picture, like
Speaker 1: one pick for ten dollars, five dollars for the kid,
Speaker 1: like whatever, and the guy pushes Momo the dad and
Speaker 1: there's like a whole scuffle starting and a cop runs
Speaker 1: up to break it up, and where's dad? The dad
Speaker 1: has disappeared, and Buddy's like paw paw, but like the
Speaker 1: dad has fully taken off, and the.
Speaker 2: Dad had gross vibes, very aggressive baseball cat.
Speaker 3: I you know, I don't like it. I don't like it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like, yeah, don't push a mascot for no
Speaker 1: reason like it was, And then I assume that's where
Speaker 1: the credits would go, but this is a two parter,
Speaker 1: so they don't give us two credits. So then at
Speaker 1: the squad room, liv is sitting across from Amorrow and
Speaker 1: she's kind of like twirling her hair in her fingers.
Speaker 1: And we have seen earlier in a flashback that she
Speaker 1: cut off all her hair after the William Lewis thing,
Speaker 1: so she's got a very short not like back in
Speaker 1: her sort of like pixie cut days, but it's like
Speaker 1: a long bob kind of.
Speaker 3: It's shorter.
Speaker 1: It's very season five Carrie bradshaw I would say, yeah, okay, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: but she has it short. It's just right to her
Speaker 1: chin basically, and she's just like twirling her hair and
Speaker 1: Mamorrow's looking at her. And this isn't like a new me,
Speaker 1: new look situation, Like she definitely cut her hair in
Speaker 1: a traumatic way and Tomorrow's staring at her and she's like,
Speaker 1: you don't like my new haircut, and then he's like sorry,
Speaker 1: like it's more of the whole We don't know how
Speaker 1: to deal with Olivia cu I know.
Speaker 2: But he goes, it'll grow back, and it's like, you
Speaker 2: say you like the haircut? Yeah, what the fuck is
Speaker 2: wrong with you?
Speaker 3: Bro? And then she.
Speaker 1: Goes, you're not wearing your ring and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: now we know why you don't even have a compliment
Speaker 1: a woman, you dumb ass. So that divorce was obviously
Speaker 1: a long time coming. I don't think we ever saw
Speaker 1: like one moment of happiness with Tomorrow and his wife.
Speaker 1: And then Craigan kind of interrupts their conversation to come
Speaker 1: out and be like, we got a lost kid in
Speaker 1: Times Square, and Benson's like they're being all apprehensive about
Speaker 1: letting Benson get out into the work, like into the field,
Speaker 1: and she's like, let me take it. It's a lost
Speaker 1: kid in Times Square? How bad could this be?
Speaker 3: Famous last words?
Speaker 1: So they get there to Times Square, this kid won't talk.
Speaker 1: Marro's talking to the guy who's inside of Momo and
Speaker 1: this actually, this guy playing Momo is a very famous
Speaker 1: puppeteer named Rick Lyon, and he not only used to
Speaker 1: help operate a Big Bird on Sesame Street another Sesame
Speaker 1: Street crossover. Because I know our audience got mad at
Speaker 1: us because we didn't recognize one guy from Crossover from
Speaker 1: Sesame Street in signature, So we are letting you know
Speaker 1: Sesame Street people.
Speaker 2: I was a Barney and a Lamb shop girl, Sesame
Speaker 2: and Arthur, like, Sesame Street just didn't connect to me.
Speaker 2: I don't know, sorry, guys.
Speaker 1: I watched it a little bit, but I think for
Speaker 1: a while when I was a kid, I thought real
Speaker 1: life stuff wasn't good, Like I only liked wanted to
Speaker 1: watch cartoons. So Sesame Street's not I do love it,
Speaker 1: but it's not like a super super important thing for me.
Speaker 3: But what is super important to.
Speaker 1: Me is that this man, rick Lyon also designed and
Speaker 1: created all of the puppets from Avenue Q, which is
Speaker 1: a musical that I am obsessed with.
Speaker 3: I know all the music. I've seen it on.
Speaker 1: I've saw it off Broadway, and then I think I
Speaker 1: saw it on Broadway. I like, love, Love, Love AVENUEQ,
Speaker 1: and this guy basically created it.
Speaker 3: How did you know to look him up? Or were
Speaker 3: you like, who's this idiot and the Momo? Or you
Speaker 3: recognized him? I was like, who is that?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: I first wanted to know if Momo was real, so
Speaker 1: I googled if Momo was like a real character that
Speaker 1: maybe I just had a blind spot, and then when
Speaker 1: you look it up you see the guy playing him
Speaker 1: is Rick Lyon, who has all these credits and is
Speaker 1: like a famous puppeteer.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I got to see Avenue Q. I know it's
Speaker 3: the hip one, right, it's hip. I want to see it.
Speaker 1: I mean it was I saw it over ten years ago,
Speaker 1: so like it's definitely definitely been out for a while.
Speaker 3: But puppets have sex.
Speaker 1: In it, and it's funny, like it's very funny, and
Speaker 1: there's like a song called Everyone's a little Bit Racist,
Speaker 1: Like there's just like it's very irreverent, very funny, and I.
Speaker 3: Just it's this guy, I mean hip hip, Yeah, it's hip.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's hip if it's fifteen years old,
Speaker 1: like Book A Mormon's still hip.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say Avenue Q is pretty hip.
Speaker 1: And uh, he's talking to the cop. This guy anyways
Speaker 1: got his momo hat off and he's talking to the
Speaker 1: guy and he's like, this kid's being really weird. He
Speaker 1: was like clinging to me like I'm weird, like like
Speaker 1: I was real, and I'm like I don't think that
Speaker 1: that's that weird.
Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of.
Speaker 1: Kids think that they're seeing Elmo in Times Square when
Speaker 1: they see him, but I think maybe for the kid's age,
Speaker 1: because he's like seven or eight, they're like, what's going on.
Speaker 1: Olivia goes and works her kid magic and fully gets
Speaker 1: Buddy to start talking, Like there's always a kid that
Speaker 1: they're like, he doesn't talk, and then Olivia's like hi,
Speaker 1: and the kid's like, Hi.
Speaker 3: My name's Buddy. I'm eight years old. Like she just
Speaker 3: really gets kids to start blabbin.
Speaker 1: So now the detectives are back at the precinct going
Speaker 1: over everything with Daddy Craigan. We're finding out the kid
Speaker 1: is underweight, but otherwise he's fine. There's no missing person report,
Speaker 1: his DNA's.
Speaker 3: Not in the system.
Speaker 1: But they're like, but he's seven or eight, he should
Speaker 1: be able to tell us thing. So now we're back
Speaker 1: to a live getting him to talk through drawing, and
Speaker 1: he draws his family. He draws three people and it's Ma, Sissy,
Speaker 1: and Auntie okay, and then she's like, well, who's this
Speaker 1: and he gets scared talking about Paw and he's like,
Speaker 1: Paw lives with us at house sometimes, but he goes
Speaker 1: sometimes and he starts he's talking in very clipped language,
Speaker 1: like he's like, don't ask. Be quiet, then he won't
Speaker 1: be mad. If you're quiet, you get ice cream or
Speaker 1: you get to go out. And he tells them about
Speaker 1: counting and counting all the cracks and counting all the
Speaker 1: train stops, and so basically Olivia gets like a little
Speaker 1: light bulb moment where she's like, I bet we could
Speaker 1: count exactly to where this kid came from. So we're
Speaker 1: now at green Point at the Pulaski Bridge.
Speaker 3: I know it well. I've walked that bridge. I've walked
Speaker 3: the bridge, I rode the bridge, I biked age the bridge.
Speaker 3: I've driven across that bridge a thousand times. I've walked
Speaker 3: there from the creek in the cave. I've definitely walked.
Speaker 1: That bridge many a time. And he is pointing out
Speaker 1: all the stuff he remembers. If this is real, it
Speaker 1: seems like TV magic to me. I don't think that
Speaker 1: many kids would be like that place. And then it's
Speaker 1: a hundred cracks from this place to this place. But somehow,
Speaker 1: via counting cracks and counting train stops and recognizing the bridge,
Speaker 1: we finally get to this kid and he goes that's house.
Speaker 1: So he finally brings them essentially back to his house.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. A neighbor guy pops out. He's like,
Speaker 1: you guys looking for Tony and the house is we
Speaker 1: find out owned by Angie Minetti. Tony Minetti is her son.
Speaker 1: They break into the house like no one they don't
Speaker 1: see anybody, no one's around. They go down to the basement.
Speaker 1: They find a bunch of cells. One cell has a
Speaker 1: little Momo doll in it. There are buckets like it's
Speaker 1: a full horror show, like people are being kept in
Speaker 1: this in this area. And then they see that there's
Speaker 1: a woman in one of these cells and she's chained
Speaker 1: up and she looks terrified. So they get this woman
Speaker 1: out of the house. Rollins is like fully house of horrors.
Speaker 1: There's tasers, there's zip ti restraints, there's German shepherds in
Speaker 1: the yard, like this is not a fun place to be.
Speaker 3: And Barba is on this. I don't know, I think
Speaker 3: we've asked this before.
Speaker 1: I don't know how often DA's Ida has come to
Speaker 1: the scene, but Barba is on the scene here and
Speaker 1: he does say it's another Ariel Castro.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So spoiler alert, that is what the crime that this
Speaker 1: is based on. So basically, no one has seen Angie Minetti,
Speaker 1: the owner of the house, in years, but her social
Speaker 1: Security checks are still getting cashed. There have been three complaints,
Speaker 1: including one of a woman.
Speaker 3: Tied up in a doghouse outside.
Speaker 1: The cop showed up, there was no answer, so they
Speaker 1: left and everyone's like appalled by that, further proof that
Speaker 1: SVU is a cab. So the neighbor is like, I
Speaker 1: never saw anything sketchy. It's like, you didn't see the
Speaker 1: doghouse situation, okay, buddy. ID is a photo of Auntie,
Speaker 1: the woman that they find in the cage downstairs, and
Speaker 1: he's like, can I see Sissy? And then Olivia is
Speaker 1: like in the car with him, trying to get him
Speaker 1: to talk, and when she looks outside, she sees all
Speaker 1: this press and like people helping the woman get into
Speaker 1: the car, and it gives her flashbacks of her whole
Speaker 1: William Lewis situation. We're getting flashback throughout the whole episode,
Speaker 1: some worse than others.
Speaker 3: We'll get to it.
Speaker 1: She's like very pissed the press is there, but she's
Speaker 1: also fully exhibiting the effects of her trauma, like this
Speaker 1: is not really the way Olivia usually talks. She's just
Speaker 1: like the feeding Frenzi's already begun, like she's so so pissed. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I think Olivia is just also going through something.
Speaker 1: So at the precinct, we find out that they've searched
Speaker 1: Tony Minettie's apartment, but there's no sign of Ma or Sissy.
Speaker 1: They identified the woman that they found in the basement
Speaker 1: as Ronda Davis, twenty four, missing since O two, so
Speaker 1: she's been missing for nine or ten years at least.
Speaker 1: She has diminished mental capacity, so she's not able to
Speaker 1: give them a ton of information. They bring in this guy,
Speaker 1: Tony Minette, but we've already seen what the guy looked
Speaker 1: like a little bit at the beginning of the episode.
Speaker 1: This is not the guy. He's obviously not the man
Speaker 1: we saw in Times Square. And he's like, I don't
Speaker 1: even like women. I'm gay.
Speaker 3: This is why I haven't talked to my mom in years.
Speaker 3: Like I don't want that house. I have nothing to
Speaker 3: do with that house, like Bubba.
Speaker 1: So clearly there's a mistaken identity situation going on here.
Speaker 1: Rollins is like slowly trying to pull more info out
Speaker 1: of Ronda who's obviously incredibly traumatized. So she says that
Speaker 1: Pas sleeps with all of them, but that he left
Speaker 1: with Cissy and Ma and didn't want her to go.
Speaker 1: She says Pa calls Cissy pumpkin Pie and called her
Speaker 1: our Thanksgiving blessing.
Speaker 3: So this kind of is like a.
Speaker 1: Light bulb that this woman came to them around Thanksgiving time.
Speaker 1: So they're looking for somebody who would have gone missing
Speaker 1: around Thanksgiving time, and that leads them to Kayla Grayland,
Speaker 1: who went missing in the Poconos nine years ago around Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1: And a buddy has id'd an age progression photo of
Speaker 1: like what Cissy would look like, so they go to
Speaker 1: see Kayla's parents. They show a police sketch of the
Speaker 1: man who was in Times Square and the parents are ecstatic.
Speaker 1: They've never seen the man before, but they're ecstatic to
Speaker 1: find out that Kayla might still be alive. The cops
Speaker 1: never took DNA of her, like anything from her hair
Speaker 1: brush or a toothbrush or anything like that, so that
Speaker 1: was kind of a mistake. But the mom has Kayla's
Speaker 1: first tooth for DNA and that nig me start thinking
Speaker 1: about when Rosie's gonna lose teeth, and I'm not excited
Speaker 1: to be collecting teeth. But anyway, you don't have to
Speaker 1: collect them. Aren't you supposed to keep them in a
Speaker 1: little box or not? In my culture, that's disgusting. No,
Speaker 1: people that keep teeth, it's weird.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Okay, so just take.
Speaker 1: Her little tooth, put a fiver under the put a
Speaker 1: dollar under the pillow, and throw it in the garbage.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to keep a tooth, I'm not,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't seem like you want to, and you
Speaker 2: do not have to no rule book. You don't even
Speaker 2: have to tell her about the tooth Fair if you
Speaker 2: don't want to. I mean, it's all a fucking siskin. Yeah,
Speaker 2: everything's made up. But I think I'll do the tooth fair.
Speaker 1: It sounds it was really magical to wake up with
Speaker 1: money under your pillow.
Speaker 3: That was really fun.
Speaker 2: No, it's really really fun, and presents are always a
Speaker 2: good time. But ew to keep a bunch teeth is not.
Speaker 1: I just have seen a lot of people do that.
Speaker 1: I've definitely I found boxes of teeth. It might my
Speaker 1: mom too have did it. I'll ask her anyway. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: CSU has found skeletal remains in the backyard of the
Speaker 1: minity house, wrapped in a blanket.
Speaker 3: So not great. Live is still having flashbacks.
Speaker 1: She's she's just getting really dark, like describing all the
Speaker 1: details of the case. She's like, and this guy keeps
Speaker 1: these women slaves, Like she's just getting more heightened and
Speaker 1: heightened in her anger.
Speaker 3: And then she's like, you have to stop treating.
Speaker 1: Me, like I'm broken, And it's like you seem not broken,
Speaker 1: but like you could use a maybe a couple weeks
Speaker 1: in Hawaii or something.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, this does suck, Like this is
Speaker 2: the normal reaction to a case like this, Like this
Speaker 2: is fucked up.
Speaker 1: Right, But I think when this case transitioned from a
Speaker 1: missing kid to a full aerial castro situation, they might
Speaker 1: have moved lived to like just be like a different thing,
Speaker 1: like because it's so one of the worst cases that
Speaker 1: we've ever heard of in our lives. And like she's
Speaker 1: like first case back on the job, like human atrocities
Speaker 1: beyond all others. Like it's kind of tough, but ice
Speaker 1: Tea comes in and there's good news.
Speaker 3: They found Kayla.
Speaker 1: She was picked up by New Jersey police shoplifting at
Speaker 1: a Kmart, so clearly she was just dumped somewhere and
Speaker 1: I don't know, they probably wanted to get caught or
Speaker 1: needed needed food and went to Kmart to shoplift. So
Speaker 1: on TV, Kayla talks to the press. She's played by
Speaker 1: an actress named Agatha Nowiki, and she Kayla has been
Speaker 1: missing for nine years, and she's like, I just want
Speaker 1: to see my parents and see buddy. The news report
Speaker 1: has her name underneath, and the font is comic book font.
Speaker 1: It just it's just something I noticed and it was
Speaker 1: really weird, like it's full Superman comic book font at
Speaker 1: the bottom, and I don't think most news channels are
Speaker 1: using that anyway.
Speaker 3: We go to commercial on.
Speaker 1: Live's face looking like kind of pissed, and yeah, that's
Speaker 1: kind of her vibe the whole episode. But at the hospital,
Speaker 1: Kayla's like everybody's being so nice. She's surrounded by her
Speaker 1: parents are there with her. It's like, thank God, she's safe,
Speaker 1: and she just wants to go home.
Speaker 3: But the cops are.
Speaker 1: Like, girl, we need a little bit more info from you.
Speaker 1: This isn't like a head straight home kind of situation,
Speaker 1: and so Barbara like lures the parents out of the
Speaker 1: room so that they can talk to Kayla a little
Speaker 1: bit more easily. And she says when she was walking
Speaker 1: home from watching TV at a friend's house, she was
Speaker 1: walking home and these mon pa pulled over. Ma asked
Speaker 1: her for directions, and she felt a jolt and Olivia's like,
Speaker 1: they tasered you. And when she woke up, she was
Speaker 1: chained to the wall and they were like, we're your
Speaker 1: new family mon Pa. And after about a week, Paw
Speaker 1: unchained her and started raping her. And she didn't even
Speaker 1: know that it was called sex until Ma explained it
Speaker 1: to her and told her that she was lucky to
Speaker 1: be PA's favorite.
Speaker 3: So this is beyond fucked up.
Speaker 1: She's ten years old when she is originally captured, so
Speaker 1: very very horrific.
Speaker 3: Ma was never locked up.
Speaker 1: She reveals she went upstairs and she said sometimes Paul
Speaker 1: would go away and Sissy would ask her to let her,
Speaker 1: like let them go, and she's like, I can't because
Speaker 1: Pau's coming back. Pretty fucked up, and then the next
Speaker 1: thing we know, we're in Pennsylvania where Amorrow is there
Speaker 1: to collect Ma who's been apparently sitting at a McDonald's
Speaker 1: for five hours.
Speaker 3: So this man has just been ditching these women one
Speaker 3: by one.
Speaker 1: He left one at home, he dropped one off in
Speaker 1: New Jersey, or he didn't drop her off. She escaped
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, I think. And then he drops off
Speaker 1: Ma in Pennsylvania. She has no cash. He just left
Speaker 1: her there.
Speaker 2: Do you think this would have happened if the Momo
Speaker 2: incident didn't happen? Like he was escaping the cops, but like, no,
Speaker 2: he would.
Speaker 1: I think he would have kept living how he was living. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I think that he knew, oh shit, the cops are
Speaker 1: going to get in my face. I can't deal with
Speaker 1: the cops and then leaving. But it's like I don't
Speaker 1: know if yeah, I don't know, but it seems like
Speaker 1: it was kind of crazy to abandon buddy. He should
Speaker 1: have just talked to the cops and been like sorry,
Speaker 1: I mean, pushed the guy and then like the cops
Speaker 1: are dumb. They would have never investigated it further and
Speaker 1: found your fucking full harem of prisoner.
Speaker 3: Slaves in your basement.
Speaker 1: Ma was like very adamant about staying at the McDonald's
Speaker 1: because she thinks that Pau's coming back for her, and
Speaker 1: she's like a real country. She's like Paul gonna come
Speaker 1: back for me, Like she's got a real accent, and
Speaker 1: they bring her in and everyone's like, we got to
Speaker 1: charge her, we got to do this, and Rollins is
Speaker 1: really fighting for her, and it's like she has classic
Speaker 1: Stockholm syndrome, like this is a victim as well, and
Speaker 1: they're like, well, we got to talk to her because
Speaker 1: she's the only way we can find out where Paw is.
Speaker 1: So they're like, well, who do you want to talk
Speaker 1: to her? Are the men that arrested her in cofor
Speaker 1: or the women, So obviously Craigan makes the call, lets
Speaker 1: Rollins and Benson go in to talk to her. They
Speaker 1: quickly devolve into a good cop, bad cop situation, but
Speaker 1: Live is losing it, like she's not doing her normal
Speaker 1: Olivia Benson like compassionate speaking to people, like she's fully
Speaker 1: freaking out on this woman. And obviously this this is
Speaker 1: all a result of the ongoing trauma that she is
Speaker 1: suffering from. Ma is like freaking out from the way
Speaker 1: that Olivia is talking to her, and they have to
Speaker 1: pull Olivia out of the room. Craigan sends her home
Speaker 1: and it's like, it was too soon for you to
Speaker 1: come back. I can't say I disagree. The next scene
Speaker 1: is just flashbacks of Benson beating Louis with a bat,
Speaker 1: like really really fucked up flashback of like it's just
Speaker 1: very graphic, you like hear a body being slammed with
Speaker 1: a bat over and over. And then she comes to
Speaker 1: she's in a hospital elevator and she's like letting everybody go.
Speaker 3: Out of the hospital, out of the elevator.
Speaker 1: And she's just like sitting there frozen, and she's going
Speaker 1: to see Kayla, Rhonda, and Buddy. They're all kind of
Speaker 1: in this like child development room like hanging out. Ronda
Speaker 1: and Buddy are and Kayla's outside the glass talking to Benson,
Speaker 1: and this is a very mirrored scene from earlier with Benson.
Speaker 1: Kayla says she's tired of everyone looking at her like
Speaker 1: she's going to break, and Benson's like, girl, I feel you.
Speaker 1: You know, Buddy wants to see ma, and Kayla's like,
Speaker 1: it's fine with me if he wants to see her.
Speaker 1: I don't want to take anything away from anybody. And
Speaker 1: I just feel like this actress is very good, Like
Speaker 1: I'm really like she's really drawing me into this victim personality.
Speaker 3: This character is just like she's really really you feel
Speaker 3: for her.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Olivia meets Amorrow in a back alley and she's like,
Speaker 1: I've got something to trade for with Ma, Like I've
Speaker 1: got an idea, And so Live shows up to you know,
Speaker 1: the precinct. Craigan's annoyed because because no one's listening to Daddy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no one's listening to him. But Livia is like, want
Speaker 1: me to quit, bitch, and he's like, okay, well I
Speaker 1: don't want that.
Speaker 3: So they do.
Speaker 1: Let Olivia go in and talk to Ma again, and
Speaker 1: she's got Now she's back to regular Benson. Now she's
Speaker 1: back to soft spoken. Let's work this out. Let me
Speaker 1: coax the information out of you the way that only
Speaker 1: Olivia Benson knows how. And she basically shows Ma a
Speaker 1: picture that Buddy drew for her and starts to tug
Speaker 1: on her heartstrings from the whole Buddy and she's like,
Speaker 1: he misses you, Sissy says, you can see him if
Speaker 1: you want.
Speaker 3: You can still be a family.
Speaker 1: You just have to talk to us, and she and
Speaker 1: it's like, you tell us who Paw is and she
Speaker 1: won't say, and she's like, well tell us who you are,
Speaker 1: Like what did they used to call you, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I just can't say it. Olivia has done this trick before.
Speaker 1: She's like, if you can't say it, how about you
Speaker 1: write it down, you know. So in the next scene
Speaker 1: we find out her name is April Hendrix and she
Speaker 1: went missing eighteen years ago in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. I don't
Speaker 1: know how she became Southern. Maybe that was something that
Speaker 1: happened when she was in the bigsman of this house
Speaker 1: because she's fully like, but there's Paul and like, she's
Speaker 1: from Brooklyn. So she went missing about eighteen years ago
Speaker 1: in green Point. Police questioned a few people. One of
Speaker 1: the people they question was Michael Williams, who was a
Speaker 1: maintenance worker at her school. The school has since shut down,
Speaker 1: but they somehow get in contact with another teacher from
Speaker 1: the school who remembers exactly.
Speaker 3: April and is like, oh, you want to hear something great.
Speaker 1: He works at this school now, Michael Williams, So let
Speaker 1: me get you his phone number. So I love when
Speaker 1: the writers are like, we to move this along and
Speaker 1: we just get to who Michael Williams is.
Speaker 3: Where he is.
Speaker 1: They track him down and a Croatian woman opens the
Speaker 1: door and she is from Oranges to The New Black. She
Speaker 1: played Healy's wife that hated him. Do you remember whoa Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember? Oh wow, yeah, so that's that's her. I
Speaker 1: always liked heron Orange Is the New Black. She was
Speaker 1: really funny. That's a funny type cast to be just
Speaker 1: mail orders like, yeah, she's yeah, been a Mallard to
Speaker 1: bride more than once. And she answers the door and
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, Michael Williams is my husband. He's in
Speaker 1: the back playing with our sons. And they go back
Speaker 1: and he's just like weirdly rough housing with his sons
Speaker 1: in a way that seems like they staged it. But
Speaker 1: they arrest him immediately, and now we're cross cutting between
Speaker 1: him being interrogated and his wife being interrogated. He is
Speaker 1: creepily delusional, like he's like, slaves.
Speaker 3: I was the slave.
Speaker 1: I fed these women, I clothed them, I took care
Speaker 1: of their needs. It's like they were fine, they were
Speaker 1: what nobody Oh, it's just it's really illusional. Rollins is
Speaker 1: convincing the wife about what he did and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: you don't understand. He was at this house taking care
Speaker 1: of his mother. And the wife's name is Dagmara. By
Speaker 1: the way, that's her name. They don't really ever say it,
Speaker 1: but it is listed in the credits, and I think
Speaker 1: it's kind of a fun name, but it sounds like
Speaker 1: a meat that you would order a Dagmara sandwich. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Michael is like insisting that he saved these girls, which, like,
Speaker 1: I guess I could sort of see. We find out
Speaker 1: that Ma actually had her mother, had an abusive boyfriend
Speaker 1: that she was trying to get away from, so that's
Speaker 1: why kind of nobody looked for her because they assumed
Speaker 1: that she was just running away from her home situation.
Speaker 1: And then Ronda was a drug addict that was like
Speaker 1: in and out of foster care. So I guess you
Speaker 1: could see, like these two how he in his mind
Speaker 1: was like, I'm saving them. I'm giving them a better
Speaker 1: life in a cage. It's psychotic. But with Kayla, it's
Speaker 1: like she was walking home from school, she had parents,
Speaker 1: she was fine. You just picked her up off the
Speaker 1: street and ruined her life, Like I mean, she in
Speaker 1: all their lives. I'm just saying, I don't know where
Speaker 1: he gets his justification for Kayla. And when they ask
Speaker 1: him about it, he says, oh, Yeah, Kayla was different.
Speaker 1: Sissy helped him, so after he took her, he didn't
Speaker 1: need any others.
Speaker 3: So he admits that she was a different case.
Speaker 1: But I think it was just like he saw her
Speaker 1: and wanted to possess her, so that's what he did.
Speaker 1: The wife is still going on about how his mom
Speaker 1: isn't dead, she has Alzheimer's and she goes he goes
Speaker 1: away to help her with her Alzheimer's, and it's like
Speaker 1: she's just not getting that her husband is going away
Speaker 1: to basically have a secret family that are captives. And
Speaker 1: he denies killing Angie and said he just walked in
Speaker 1: one day and she was dead.
Speaker 2: And I'm also wondering if this mail order woman is
Speaker 2: like actually like somewhere. If she's like, yeah, go to Manhattan,
Speaker 2: like going to green Point, I don't care.
Speaker 1: Well, she's pretty like she's pretty insistent that he's a
Speaker 1: great man. She keeps like she's not just like she's
Speaker 1: not just like, look, he helped me.
Speaker 3: I'm in this country because of him.
Speaker 1: She's like, he's great, he's such a great dad in
Speaker 1: the Poconos because he wants to keep our son safe.
Speaker 1: Like she totally I think she's drank the kool aid
Speaker 1: somehow that he's a good guy, but it also could
Speaker 1: be that life was bad with she looks.
Speaker 3: Like Buffalo Bill. I know he looks scary, fully, I know,
Speaker 3: but I don't know.
Speaker 1: If you watch ninety Day Fiance, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of these girls are getting with scary guys so they
Speaker 1: can get out of where they came from.
Speaker 3: But like I said, he denies killing Angie.
Speaker 1: He says she was just dead one day and they're like,
Speaker 1: so you just buried her in the backyard and he
Speaker 1: was and cash her checks and he was like, eh,
Speaker 1: he kind of doesn't really have answers for a lot
Speaker 1: of this. And he was like, well, what did you
Speaker 1: think was going to happen to Ronda when you bolted
Speaker 1: with the two other women and just left her chained
Speaker 1: up in a cage?
Speaker 3: And he's like, can't save them all?
Speaker 1: Like he's truly evil, this man, And he thinks he
Speaker 1: saved them.
Speaker 3: He's like, they're alive because of me. I gave Kayla
Speaker 3: a son. He's my boy.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's just really, I mean, you'll tell
Speaker 1: us what the real case, But I don't think you
Speaker 1: ever really get a good sense of like why anyone
Speaker 1: does these kind of things, But it's just it's so sick.
Speaker 1: Barba is considering charging April aka Mo, and they're like,
Speaker 1: she was literally kidnapped at twelve years old and has
Speaker 1: been held by this man like for eighteen years. Like
Speaker 1: she's scared to death and she's a shell of a person,
Speaker 1: Like how could you even consider that? So Barbara kind
Speaker 1: of backs off, and Tomorrow's like when they're they leave
Speaker 1: the interrogation room with Michael Williams, Tomorrow's like, think will
Speaker 1: kill himself?
Speaker 3: And Finn's like, who gives a fuck?
Speaker 1: Like it's just a very funny, little quick interaction between
Speaker 1: those two, and then the whole episode's winding down, like
Speaker 1: now we're at uh Kayla's parents' house and she's in
Speaker 1: the car with Olivia and Buddy and Buddy's asleep and
Speaker 1: they can't get out of the car just yet because
Speaker 1: the press.
Speaker 3: Is like swarming around them and they're waiting to kind
Speaker 3: of like move them.
Speaker 1: And they have this really sweet scene that's like a
Speaker 1: heart to heart and she's like, are.
Speaker 3: We ever going to be normal? Is Buddy gonna be okay?
Speaker 1: Like he doesn't even have a name, like and Olivia said, like,
Speaker 1: I think people who have gone through unfair, horrific experiences
Speaker 1: is that they have this will and when they get
Speaker 1: support and they get a chance, they cannot only survive,
Speaker 1: they can thrive. And that's like a callback to what
Speaker 1: she talked about how she wasn't thriving earlier in the episode,
Speaker 1: I think. And then Kayla's like, thank you, Olivia Benson.
Speaker 1: You are the patron saint of all that is good
Speaker 1: in the world. And she gets out of the car
Speaker 1: with Buddy, and in the final scene of the episode,
Speaker 1: Olivia has agreed to go back to therapy, and when
Speaker 1: the doctor asks her, how have you been, she goes
Speaker 1: better and that's dick wolf baby who Okay, Wow, It's
Speaker 1: like it's I it's such a fucked up episode, but
Speaker 1: I know that the true Crime.
Speaker 3: I'm I've heard so much about it and it's so
Speaker 3: fuck even more fucked up.
Speaker 1: So I'm you got a big task ahead of you, Lisa,
Speaker 1: and I know you're gonna kill it.
Speaker 2: I do, And I think you'll be shocked at like
Speaker 2: these mental narcissists.
Speaker 3: Guys. Yeah, we'll be right back. Okay, welcome back to
Speaker 3: the news.
Speaker 2: So this is happening in Cleveland, in like the Tremont area,
Speaker 2: and I've stayed a mile away from where this took place. Yeah,
Speaker 2: my friend used to live in the neighborhood with this
Speaker 2: girl she had, well one of my old dog best friends, Rebel.
Speaker 2: There were chickens in the back, and I stayed there.
Speaker 2: I mean, he got to live in a house for
Speaker 2: two hundred dollars, so this is I guess it's an
Speaker 2: affordable place to be, but I just can't believe I
Speaker 2: was there. I stayed in a hostel in this area,
Speaker 2: partied all night, so it is kind of it's extra creepy.
Speaker 2: So the you know, the bad guy, we all know
Speaker 2: Ariel Castro. He's fifty two and I guess for weeks
Speaker 2: I have been calling him able, so that might happen.
Speaker 3: We'll see.
Speaker 2: And you know, at the time of his apprehension, he
Speaker 2: was unemployed and the house he kept the woman captive
Speaker 2: in was in foreclosure.
Speaker 3: So focus on your life. You don't need any extra
Speaker 3: people in there.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, Like, you don't have your
Speaker 1: shit together, bro, So that was annoying. But he was
Speaker 1: a school bus driver for two decades, which is chilling
Speaker 1: that you can be this evil and ride around with
Speaker 1: children all day waiting for.
Speaker 3: Your next victim.
Speaker 2: And he but he was fired for having three disciplinary problems,
Speaker 2: and so he is a loser. He had a first
Speaker 2: wife who had full custody of the kids, but he
Speaker 2: was frequently known for abducting.
Speaker 3: The kids and keeping them away from their mother.
Speaker 2: So he was doing shady shit that he shouldn't have
Speaker 2: gotten away with. And while there were together, there was
Speaker 2: some domestic violence in the home. She suffered a broken nose,
Speaker 2: ribs and two dislocated shoulders. So the signs were there
Speaker 2: that maybe he shouldn't be in public and maybe should
Speaker 2: be surveillanced at all times.
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: And he was a gross person, nasty, dirty, and that's
Speaker 2: that I hate him. His cousin said that he built
Speaker 2: himself a shack in the living room and slept inside
Speaker 2: of it to save money on heat.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, how can someone so dumb and careless get
Speaker 2: away with a crime for over a decade. Like That's
Speaker 2: what's confusing to me, because we kind of build up
Speaker 2: these serial killer or like these these evil people as
Speaker 2: geniuses and meticulous and like dexter style, and they're this
Speaker 2: guy's a fucking loser, you know.
Speaker 3: He's not like all those Virgo serial killers.
Speaker 1: They're organized, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but to me, it's like you schlub, piece of shit. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the three victims of Ariel Castro is Amanda Barry
Speaker 2: and she was held for ten years.
Speaker 1: So then it's Gina Dijesuss and she was held for
Speaker 1: nine years. And Michelle Knight and she was held for
Speaker 1: eleven years. All three of these women were acquaintances of
Speaker 1: Astro's children, and that's how he was able to kind
Speaker 1: of have their trust because they were friends with his daughter,
Speaker 1: you know, his daughter. So Michelle was just twenty one
Speaker 1: years old and she was lured into the house with
Speaker 1: the offer of a puppy for her young son.
Speaker 2: Basically, she was like on her way to a custody
Speaker 2: hearing for her son.
Speaker 3: There was problems in her own life.
Speaker 2: She's kind of like the one that they thought was
Speaker 2: just to run away in the SVU episode, like there
Speaker 2: was less care for her. This woman got less pressed
Speaker 2: when she went missing. She had it rough.
Speaker 1: She was abused in the home, but she was trying
Speaker 1: to get to court for a custody hearing for her son,
Speaker 1: and she missed it and it was just kind of
Speaker 1: this wild thing. And he saw her there and she
Speaker 1: was asking for directions outside of a family dollar. So
Speaker 1: we offered her a ride and she said yes.
Speaker 2: Because she knew his daughter and she was like yeah,
Speaker 2: and he goes, you know, I have this puppy. Maybe
Speaker 2: her son would like a puppy. So she goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'll check out this puppy. So once inside the home,
Speaker 2: her with an extension cord dragged her to the basement.
Speaker 2: He forced a motorcycle helmet over her head and then
Speaker 2: raped her. Jesus and this motorcycle helmet is like kind
Speaker 2: of a running theme. It's he raped the women in
Speaker 2: this helmet often.
Speaker 3: He also snapped the neck of the puppy he used
Speaker 3: to lure her in front of her.
Speaker 1: Well, this man can't afford to feed a puppy, I'm
Speaker 1: sure no. It's like it's sadistic, that's the thing. It's
Speaker 1: like this loser and he's sadistic and this shit gets
Speaker 1: it's just very twisted. He also ripped up her only
Speaker 1: picture of her son, Joey and said you will never
Speaker 1: see him again. So it's just like obviously he's bad,
Speaker 1: but he's like mean I just it's a lot. So
Speaker 1: during her imprisonment, her son was adopted out to another family,
Speaker 1: and just so you guys know, as of twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: like she has them have direct contact with him, but
Speaker 1: she gets sent pictures and hopes to meet one day.
Speaker 3: So oh, that's so heartbreaking. I need her to meet him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the's on, you know, got adopted to a
Speaker 2: nice family. So eight months later, in April two thousand
Speaker 2: and three, he abducted Amanda Barry, and she was sixteen
Speaker 2: years old. She was last seen leaving her job at
Speaker 2: the local burger king on April twenty first, and she
Speaker 2: later in an interview for twenty twenty, said how she
Speaker 2: wanted to call off that day because her birthday was
Speaker 2: the next day, and so she constantly thinks like, what
Speaker 2: if I just didn't go to work that day? Why,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's yeah, what ifs. So he offered
Speaker 2: her a ride to his house to meet up with
Speaker 2: his daughter, who she knew. She was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: So he took Barry upstairs and showed her this mystery
Speaker 2: woman sleeping in a bedroom in front of a TV set,
Speaker 2: and that woman ended up being Michelle Knight. He took
Speaker 2: her to a closet off of one of the rooms
Speaker 2: and told her to take her pants off, and she remembers.
Speaker 3: Like she was like, oh fuck, this is not going
Speaker 3: to be good.
Speaker 2: And he took her to the basement, taped her wrists
Speaker 2: and ankles, put a belt around her ankles over the tape,
Speaker 2: put a helmet over her head, and said, don't make
Speaker 2: any noise and I'll take you you home.
Speaker 3: But then he obviously did not do that. He changed
Speaker 3: her to a pole in.
Speaker 2: The basement, shut the lights off, and left the TV on.
Speaker 2: One week after her abduction, he used her cell phone
Speaker 2: to call her family and taunt them. The FBI had
Speaker 2: just started to develop technology that could track a cell
Speaker 2: phone's location if it was turned on, and so they
Speaker 2: were able to narrow down the area to a thirty
Speaker 2: or forty block surface area or whatever perimeter.
Speaker 3: But he never used the phone.
Speaker 2: Again, and he couldn't get on and so they couldn't
Speaker 2: get info. So you know how like those old nineties
Speaker 2: thrillers we make fun of, like keep them on the line. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: they just didn't have the technology. And he taunted them
Speaker 2: once and never turned it on again. And this is
Speaker 2: just kind of like, you know when men are like,
Speaker 2: but I have daughters, and it's like, yeah, that means nothing.
Speaker 3: You could still be a terrible person.
Speaker 2: And Ariel Castro is the example of that, like he
Speaker 2: not only had a daughter, but used having a daughter
Speaker 2: to lure women in that he then kept hostage. So
Speaker 2: just that's why it's so extra annoying when guys are like,
Speaker 2: but I have a wife and sisters.
Speaker 3: It's like, none of that matters. Go fuck yourself. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Gina Dejeesus was fourteen at the time of the kidnapping,
Speaker 2: and he enticed her into his car in two thousand
Speaker 2: and four by asking her for help in finding his daughter,
Speaker 2: who was a friend of Gina's. He was like, hey,
Speaker 2: I can't find my daughter. She's been like run around.
Speaker 2: Can you help me find her? And she was like,
Speaker 2: of course, And this is a little aside, a little
Speaker 2: uplifting moment. But I pulled a prank like this because
Speaker 2: I used to be a party animal. So my friend
Speaker 2: Ze picked up my friend Gary and I hid in
Speaker 2: the back seat under all these blankets, and she was like,
Speaker 2: we got into a fight.
Speaker 3: She ran off, but she's waste, so you have to end.
Speaker 2: They were like talking about trying to find me, and
Speaker 2: then I put my hand up in the side and
Speaker 2: like grabbed his face and I was like a ghost
Speaker 2: and scared him.
Speaker 3: So that was just a fun prank and he was
Speaker 3: unfortunately this was not a prank.
Speaker 2: No no, but I liked scaring my friend.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So back to the House of Horrors. So he took
Speaker 2: her to the house and he asked for help with
Speaker 2: the stereo. He's like, hey, can you help me, like
Speaker 2: bring the stereo inside the house I bought for my daughter.
Speaker 2: Later in an interview, Gina said that she was unnerved
Speaker 2: by his bizarre behavior, like he was fixing his eyebrows
Speaker 2: and trimming his mustache, cutting nose hairs. So he started
Speaker 2: to touch her and she's like, what are you doing, bro?
Speaker 2: You can go to jail, Like you shouldn't be touching me.
Speaker 1: I'm under age, but she's fourteen, yes, and so he goes, ugh, fine, party, pooper,
Speaker 1: I will take you home. But unfortunately we can't leave
Speaker 1: through the door we came in through, and so he
Speaker 1: led her to the basement and that's where he grabbed
Speaker 1: her and chained her up. So the chains weren't tight
Speaker 1: and she was able to throw them over and tried
Speaker 1: to run, but he sat on her back and she
Speaker 1: fought and fought but couldn't get away, and the radio
Speaker 1: was too loud for anybody to hear her.
Speaker 3: And that was that.
Speaker 1: And she said that he would take her hair and
Speaker 1: put it in his mouth and it was really gross.
Speaker 3: Oh god. Yeah, so that's a detail.
Speaker 2: I guess I didn't have to add, but we should
Speaker 2: know what these women went through. Yeah, so, since she
Speaker 2: was new, she did become his favorite. We saw that
Speaker 2: in the s few episode about favoritism. And so she
Speaker 2: seemed to have the nicer room and he was just
Speaker 2: kind of nicer to her, and that caused issues with
Speaker 2: the other girls and they would feel jealous because everyone
Speaker 2: had so little. And what's fucked up on top of
Speaker 2: all of this is they were all held less than
Speaker 2: five miles from the neighborhood on Lorraine Avenue where all
Speaker 2: three of them disappeared.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, so truly.
Speaker 2: Within He would go to the vigils on the anniversary
Speaker 2: of the women's disappearances.
Speaker 1: And nobody was like, Hey, this dirty, nasty man who
Speaker 1: lives in a shock in the middle of his living room.
Speaker 3: For heat could be the guy Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean the town of Cleveland and the neighbor like
Speaker 2: everyone is very disappointed in the police in this and
Speaker 2: there was just there was a giant, fifty four page
Speaker 2: investigation in to the Cleveland Police department because this was
Speaker 2: around the same time or close to with like Tamir
Speaker 2: Rice and there was another incident and the police there
Speaker 2: were fucking up a lot. But definitely the citizens of
Speaker 2: Cleveland thought that the police should have could have and like,
Speaker 2: what what do you mean you.
Speaker 3: Couldn't find them?
Speaker 2: They were within five miles of where they were taken,
Speaker 2: Like was there no CCTV footage outside of Burger Kings?
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck happened? That there was no evidence
Speaker 3: or what to all three of the victims have in common.
Speaker 1: They all know this daughter, Yeah, no Ariel Castro's daughter, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think they And then you.
Speaker 3: Know, especially with Michelle, like they were like whatever, she's
Speaker 3: a runaway, we don't care and we find Yeah, the
Speaker 3: police were terrible in it.
Speaker 2: I did not read the full report, but there was
Speaker 2: like a full investigation done to the police departments. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so there was like a full investigation and report done
Speaker 2: on these failed police officers, which I'm sure all working
Speaker 2: and feel nothing.
Speaker 3: So so yeah, he went to these vigils.
Speaker 2: He brought home the missing posters and showed the women
Speaker 2: television coverage.
Speaker 3: Of their grieving families.
Speaker 2: So fucked up Night's case, like I said, got the
Speaker 2: least amount of attention. She was a strange for her family,
Speaker 2: and she really didn't get much screen time and searching.
Speaker 2: And this is kind of a theme that we've all
Speaker 2: kind of been thrust upon us in the past few
Speaker 2: months in the news of like who gets attention and
Speaker 2: who doesn't on cases.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: In the home, he sealed all the windows with closet
Speaker 2: doors and heavy drapes. There was a system of alarms
Speaker 2: attached to the interior of the front door. He fed
Speaker 2: them a single meal a day and forced them to
Speaker 2: use plastic toilets in their room, and then to mark
Speaker 2: the passage of time, he would serve cake for each
Speaker 2: woman's abduction day, like it was their birthday.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He kept them in a state of powerlessness through prolonged physical, sexual,
Speaker 2: and psychological violence. He would sometimes pretend to leave the
Speaker 2: house and then sneak back in to make sure they
Speaker 2: were all still there, so they never knew when he
Speaker 2: was actually around or not to any of the people
Speaker 2: that ever say like why didn't you just leave? Just
Speaker 2: more examples of like how much these people went through.
Speaker 2: He said, if he ever caught them trying to leave
Speaker 2: or get out, he would obviously kill them.
Speaker 3: And at first he kept.
Speaker 2: The women like very divided and didn't perdmit them to talk.
Speaker 2: And for punishment he would confine them in the cold
Speaker 2: basement or the sweltering attic.
Speaker 3: And then for rewards.
Speaker 2: These are rewards they got was a trip to the
Speaker 2: toilet and an occasional shower.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: But every reward came with a price, so if you had,
Speaker 2: like if you got a shower, you had to shower
Speaker 2: with him. Barry said that she had to numb herself
Speaker 2: to cope with the sexual abuse, and that you just
Speaker 2: like put your mind somewhere else so that you're not there.
Speaker 3: So that was just a comment.
Speaker 2: Barry used a code to record how many times he
Speaker 2: raped her each day in her diary in hopes that
Speaker 2: one day it could be used as evidence and he
Speaker 2: could be in trouble.
Speaker 3: For each count.
Speaker 2: He used ninety two pounds of locks and chains to
Speaker 2: restrain the women as their years as prisoners. The women
Speaker 2: only left the house twice and it was only for
Speaker 2: brief visits to the adjacent garage. So the garage is
Speaker 2: as far as they went in their lives for a decade.
Speaker 3: Give her take.
Speaker 2: The women were changed in the basement, but then eventually
Speaker 2: we're freed from the chains and we're allowed to live
Speaker 2: upstairs on the second floor. This is so Amanda Barry
Speaker 2: would watch the Montell Williams show and there, do you
Speaker 2: remember the psychic Sylvia Brown?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds familiar.
Speaker 2: So so she's watching Montel. She always thought about the
Speaker 2: psychic and hopefully whatever. One day, her mother was on
Speaker 2: the Montel Williams Show to ask about her daughter, and
Speaker 2: this fucking psychic told her that the.
Speaker 3: Daughter was dead. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So she broke down crying and couldn't believe that the
Speaker 2: psychic did that. So she had to like watch her
Speaker 2: mom cry on Montelle thinking she was dead when she
Speaker 2: was fully alive watching this and chains.
Speaker 3: That's terrible. It's like, that's the thing like very now.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know what the statement is, but it
Speaker 1: just sucks when the real case is even more twisted
Speaker 1: than the SVU episode, because that's fiction. And there's writers
Speaker 1: and they're trying to be really you know, cinematic about it.
Speaker 1: And so then for these like little moments that are
Speaker 1: all so bizarre to happen, it's a lot and sad.
Speaker 1: Of course, her mother died before she was freed and
Speaker 1: was never able to see her daughter free. So yeah,
Speaker 1: her mom died of heart failure three years after Barry disappeared.
Speaker 3: Now, he would impregnate Michelle Knight multiple times and then
Speaker 3: he would starve her and punch her in the stomach
Speaker 3: repeatedly until she miskidded. So I constantly would do that
Speaker 3: to her.
Speaker 2: But Amanda Barry was able to keep her baby. She
Speaker 2: found out she was pregnant on her twentieth birthday, and
Speaker 2: so she had a baby. But he would beat the
Speaker 2: shit out of Michelle and force her to miscarry. So
Speaker 2: I don't know what, what the fuck Amanda said. She
Speaker 2: was very terrified, you know, like I barely eat, I'm
Speaker 2: chained to a wall, I use a bucket for a bathroom.
Speaker 2: What the fuck am I gonna do? Amanda Barry delivered
Speaker 2: a baby in the house in a plastic pool, and
Speaker 2: then Michelle Knight was the midwife for it, and he basically.
Speaker 3: Like it's weird.
Speaker 2: It's like Michelle Knight was not allowed like force miscarriage
Speaker 2: and this is forced birth, and it's like which one
Speaker 2: is worse. They're both like so bad And what's.
Speaker 3: Wild is all the neighbors for were like he was
Speaker 3: a regular Joe, We chatted, we waved hello, like no
Speaker 3: one really got these vibes from him, even though I mean, yeah,
Speaker 3: no one got the vibes from him. Any Yeah, they
Speaker 3: put that.
Speaker 1: In an episode too, because there's this guy that's kind
Speaker 1: of like, no, I never saw anything sketchy, like he
Speaker 1: seemed cool.
Speaker 3: We said hey, like.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, and Michelle said that Ariel told her
Speaker 2: if the baby dies, I'll kill you. So Jocelyn was
Speaker 2: born on Christmas to thousand and six, so Gina said,
Speaker 2: having a child there was actually a great distraction for
Speaker 2: them and they all had something to do, so that
Speaker 2: was kind of nice. Castro instructed them to tell Jocelyn
Speaker 2: that all the chains were bracelets, and then by the
Speaker 2: time she was three, like all the chains kind of
Speaker 2: came off. But the child was never told the names
Speaker 2: of the other women, so like the kid wouldn't say
Speaker 2: their names in public on accident. Oh, my god, and
Speaker 2: a cousin said that he would bring this child around
Speaker 2: and introduce him as his granddaughter, introduce.
Speaker 1: Her, and nobody was like, oh, I never saw your
Speaker 1: daughter pregnant, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck? I just don't. This seems like
Speaker 3: such a.
Speaker 1: Failure of like community of like people knowing what's up
Speaker 1: with other people.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they said, she looked happy and healthy and
Speaker 2: enjoyed her time with granddaddy, and she had clean clothes
Speaker 2: and seemed normal and alert and talked. He was a
Speaker 2: different man around her, and they did really love each other.
Speaker 2: And that made Amanda nervous for sure, because she was
Speaker 2: really scared he would touch her. But yeah, so now
Speaker 2: we're going to get into the escape. So Jocelyn went
Speaker 2: downstairs and didn't see Ariel and was like, I don't
Speaker 2: find daddy. Daddy's nowhere. So Amanda knew that this was
Speaker 2: her chance, like this was her only chance. He's not there,
Speaker 2: So Amanda's like, if I'm going to do it, I
Speaker 2: have to do it now. It was the first time
Speaker 2: in ten years that her bedroom door wasn't locked and
Speaker 2: he wasn't home, so the front door had alarms and
Speaker 2: the storm door was pad locked, but she was able
Speaker 2: to stick an arm out, and Barry said that someone
Speaker 2: passing by outside saw her but did not intervene. So
Speaker 2: someone saw like someone screaming and crying for help, saying
Speaker 2: they've been kidnapped with an arm outside this clear locked
Speaker 2: storm door, and just kept moving. So she was in
Speaker 2: the front by the front, you know, in the front.
Speaker 3: Door area, with this young child, and they're screaming, I
Speaker 3: need help, I need help. I've been kidnapped for ten years.
Speaker 3: So this hero is his name is Charles Ramsey, and
Speaker 3: he got her out and his news interview went viral.
Speaker 1: It has close to ten million views on YouTube. And
Speaker 1: I think, like, what's that TV show Jimmy Schmidt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: The unbreakle YEA.
Speaker 2: So there's like in the credits there's a guy being
Speaker 2: like load as hell or whatever, Like I think.
Speaker 1: It's Mike britt is the guy who does it on
Speaker 1: the show, and he's basically playing this man.
Speaker 2: Yes, so this is really a charismatic man. And in
Speaker 2: the interview he says he couldn't believe it. He saw
Speaker 2: Ariel every single day, he ate ribs with him, played
Speaker 2: in the backyard with the dogs. If you are interested,
Speaker 2: there's a video from twenty nineteen of Charles Ramsey and
Speaker 2: Amanda Berry being reunited if you want to watch that.
Speaker 2: And in the interview, he had a lot of great moments.
Speaker 2: He said, I knew something was really wrong because a
Speaker 2: pretty white woman was running into a strange black man's arms.
Speaker 3: He said, something is wrong here dead giveaway, and the.
Speaker 2: Reporter is like trying not to laugh, but it's true,
Speaker 2: Like this white woman is running into this man's arms.
Speaker 2: I love and he was He's like, yeah, I was
Speaker 2: just eating McDonald's and I heard those girls screaming.
Speaker 3: So the two neighbors heard that.
Speaker 2: They freed her by kicking in the chained front door
Speaker 2: and helped her make the nine one one call. The
Speaker 2: dispatcher said that the woman who called said, I'm Amanda
Speaker 2: Barry and I have been kidnapped for ten years.
Speaker 3: Angel Cardero was.
Speaker 2: One of the other men that helped Barry escape, and
Speaker 2: he said that her clothes were dirty, her teeth yellowed,
Speaker 2: her hair's super messy.
Speaker 3: And the kid looked really nervous.
Speaker 2: Barry said that even with the cops all around and
Speaker 2: so many people, she was still terrified he would hurt
Speaker 2: her and still doesn't know why he left that day
Speaker 2: with the door unlocked, But he did leave, and he
Speaker 2: left the door unlocked, and he went to go have
Speaker 2: a meal with his family.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if he was testing them or
Speaker 3: was a mistake, or if he was drunk or he
Speaker 3: I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1: And I wonder, like his family never came over for
Speaker 1: ten years, like no one ever came into the house
Speaker 1: for ten years, and like saw these I don't know,
Speaker 1: It's like so nuts.
Speaker 3: Gina said.
Speaker 2: It took her a while to get out because you
Speaker 2: didn't even believe the police were really there. She legit
Speaker 2: was thinking maybe it's people in costumes. This is what
Speaker 2: that damage can do to a person. Gina said when
Speaker 2: she told the cops her name, that their face completely dropped,
Speaker 2: like they saw a ghost. And like I said, Cleveland's
Speaker 2: pissed that the detectives didn't do enough work there. So
Speaker 2: he was charged initially with four counts of kidnapping and
Speaker 2: three counts.
Speaker 3: Of rape, and bail was set at eight million dollars.
Speaker 2: There were two other men arrested in connection to the
Speaker 2: case that were his brothers, Pedro and O'Neil, but nothing
Speaker 2: really came about with them. Thursday, August first, three months
Speaker 2: after her rescue, Michelle Night goes to confront her abductor
Speaker 2: in court, and she was the only one of the
Speaker 2: victims who made a statement. The other two victims had
Speaker 2: representatives from their family who read statements on their behalf.
Speaker 2: Amanda Barry's sister, Beth Serrano, asked for privacy so that
Speaker 2: like the six year old daughter Barry delivered in captivity,
Speaker 2: would not learn about the circumstances of our birth in
Speaker 2: the news media.
Speaker 3: So they just needed some privacy.
Speaker 2: Beth said, Listen, Amanda could not control a lot of
Speaker 2: things for a long time.
Speaker 3: Please let her control this. I'm sure that no one
Speaker 3: left her alone. But it's wow, a very succinct, well
Speaker 3: said sentence.
Speaker 2: Beth maybe was an English major. Michelle said that the
Speaker 2: days never got shorter. Days turned into nights, nights turned
Speaker 2: into days, that years turned into eternity, and she got
Speaker 2: some shade into She said, you took eleven years of
Speaker 2: my life away. I spent eleven years in hell. Now
Speaker 2: your hell.
Speaker 3: Is just beginning. She spoke about horror.
Speaker 2: Bond's with the other women was the only thing that
Speaker 2: gave her a sliver of hope. Castro had a statement
Speaker 2: to The New York Times said that they called his
Speaker 2: statement mostly rambling. He denied that he was violent or
Speaker 2: he had ever raped or beaten Michelle or the other women.
Speaker 2: He legit said, people are trying to portray me as
Speaker 2: a monster, and I'm not a monster. I'm just sick.
Speaker 2: Fuck you, you hate women. The prosecutor in the case,
Speaker 2: Timothy J. Mca, said the experts did not find any
Speaker 2: indication that he is mentally ill, and that he blames everyone,
Speaker 2: even the victims, and has no remorse. He claimed all
Speaker 2: the sex was consensual in that house and that there
Speaker 2: was like a harmony in their home. So Judge Russo
Speaker 2: responded to him with a sick burn and was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure there's anyone in America who will agree
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 3: None of these burns are actually that good. But I
Speaker 3: guess for the court of law, it's exciting.
Speaker 2: He was sent to life in prison without the possibility
Speaker 2: of parole, and then plus one thousand years. He pled
Speaker 2: guilty to nine hundred and thirty seven charges.
Speaker 1: At least he pled guilty so that the girls didn't
Speaker 1: have to go to court, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, he wasn't really thinking about them.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well no, I'm not saying he did a service.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying I'm glad it happened that way.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And the punishment was the result of a plea deal.
Speaker 2: So Castro and the prosecutors made a deal that would
Speaker 2: allow him to avoid.
Speaker 3: A possible death sentence if he pled guilty.
Speaker 2: He also had no expression on his face when the
Speaker 2: sentence was read to him by Judge Michael J.
Speaker 3: Brusso.
Speaker 2: The Cleveland house where all of this went down was
Speaker 2: demolished August seventh, twenty thirteen as part of the plea agreement.
Speaker 2: They didn't want it to become a tourist attraction. And
Speaker 2: while they were tearing it down, there were cheers from
Speaker 2: a group of people. Michelle Knight was there.
Speaker 3: She released a bunch of yellow balloons to remember all
Speaker 3: the kidnapping victims that have yet to be rescued. And
Speaker 3: it is now a garden.
Speaker 2: So Chris Mahandi, I don't know, but he's a forensic psychologist,
Speaker 2: not associated with this case, but he's a consultant and
Speaker 2: other long term kidnapping cases, and he said these are
Speaker 2: some of the most catastrophic kinds of experiences a human
Speaker 2: can be subjected to.
Speaker 3: He said.
Speaker 2: Purpose of these types of crimes are men who have
Speaker 2: long standing fantasies of capturing, controlling, abusing, and dominating women.
Speaker 2: They use a perverse system of rewards and punishments to
Speaker 2: create fear and submission in their victims, who then lose
Speaker 2: all sense of self and become dependent on their captor.
Speaker 2: So it's the total control over a human being is
Speaker 2: what stimulates them.
Speaker 3: I know sometimes we try to figure these.
Speaker 1: People out, and I just thought this forensic psychologist did
Speaker 1: a good job.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, So back to arie'all so annoying. He
Speaker 2: hung himself in prison and died, And I feel like
Speaker 2: I remember the collective conscious when this happened in the world, and.
Speaker 3: We were pissed, like it was so ugh. I think
Speaker 3: we all wanted him to rot in jail forever.
Speaker 1: I think everyone was really excited for him to have
Speaker 1: to be captive and not have any control over his life.
Speaker 3: How do you remember how much longer it was? After?
Speaker 1: Not long at all. It was not even a month. Oh, Like,
Speaker 1: he got caught in May and he was dead in September.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Like he was sentenced and August dead
Speaker 1: in September it's like really fucked up.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's really disappointing. Why did he have bed sheets?
Speaker 3: He should have it? Sayesn't make it, doesn't make it.
Speaker 3: That's such a fuck up.
Speaker 2: Oh you don't think you think there wasn't a fuck
Speaker 2: up and cover ups and fake documents with the police,
Speaker 2: Yeah there are, don't worry.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: There's also like some weird shit with the death, So like, okay,
Speaker 2: some people say it was exphyxiation during a sex act
Speaker 2: because his pants were below his ankles and he didn't
Speaker 2: have underwear on. But he was found with the Bible
Speaker 2: open to John chapter two and three. He had a
Speaker 2: picture of his family out and like arranged in a
Speaker 2: poster board fashion. But yeah, his pants and down to
Speaker 2: his ankles. But some said he had a lot of
Speaker 2: trouble keeping pants on with all the weight he lost
Speaker 2: in prison.
Speaker 3: But how much weight can you lose in a month,
Speaker 3: you know?
Speaker 2: And then some people say he didn't wear underwear, so
Speaker 2: it's kind of strange. There was a handwritten notes with
Speaker 2: religious things written on them. Some said love my kids
Speaker 2: and grandkids, and some hearts flowers, musical notes, so it
Speaker 2: seems suicide. But the pants around the ankles did throw
Speaker 2: people a loop Either way, I think everyone was very
Speaker 2: disappointed that he did not die in captivity. He was
Speaker 2: only one month into serving his sentence. Like I said,
Speaker 2: he was charged May eighth, twenty thirteen and found dead
Speaker 2: in his cell September third, twenty thirteen. God prison guards
Speaker 2: in Ohio falsified records and failed to properly complete their
Speaker 2: rounds on the day he hung himself. Surprise, surprise, guards
Speaker 2: falsified the log entries between three and eight fifteen PM
Speaker 2: to say they checked on him when they had not.
Speaker 3: He was found dead at eight forty five.
Speaker 2: They were supposed to go by his sal at least
Speaker 2: once every thirty minutes on an irregular schedule.
Speaker 3: They did not. The officers were placed on leave lol.
Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone got fired or if anything
Speaker 2: ever happened to them, but they no one cared. As
Speaker 2: of January twenty twenty, some updates are that Gina and
Speaker 2: Amanda graduated from high school. Gina had a Cansiniera that
Speaker 2: she'd never had. Gina is super excited at her driver's license,
Speaker 2: and then Barry and so Amanda and Gina. They wrote
Speaker 2: a memoir together. I don't think they get along with Michelle.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, so their friends and then Michelle's not their friend.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to get too deep into it. They're
Speaker 2: allowed to continue being connected or not connected to whoever
Speaker 2: they want. Yeah, and Michelle has changed her name, so
Speaker 2: I will go into all of that, Okay. So yeah,
Speaker 2: Amanda Gina did write a memoir together. And then Amanda Barry.
Speaker 2: She works with a local news station. She covers missing
Speaker 2: children in the Cleveland area. And we know that Jocelyn
Speaker 2: is thriving. She is very special and why is beyond
Speaker 2: her years. According to a former teacher. March twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: Amanda partnered with the US Marshall Service for its initiative
Speaker 2: Operations Safety Net, and in just one month, we're able
Speaker 2: to help safely locate thirty five missing and endangered children.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And she said at first she was like super
Speaker 1: scared to leave the house or do anything, and now
Speaker 1: she really just feels lucky to be able to give
Speaker 1: people hope that their loved ones could be alive. Still,
Speaker 1: Gina became an ambassador for Northeast Ohio Amber Alert. In
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, Gina founded the Cleveland Family Center for missing
Speaker 1: children and adults, to work with families to help them
Speaker 1: navigate the media and go to the police station and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. The center is located on the same
Speaker 1: street as where she was held captive, and she wanted
Speaker 1: to change the neighborhood and make it positive, and she
Speaker 1: wanted to give back. And she started the center because
Speaker 1: after talking to her family, she really didn't like the
Speaker 1: way they were treated. When her mother called the police,
Speaker 1: they refused to do anything because they assumed she was
Speaker 1: a runaway. And she just wants to educate police on
Speaker 1: how to be better and compassionate with their jobs. And
Speaker 1: then Michelle Knight now goes by Lilly rose Lee. She
Speaker 1: said equine therapy helps her a lot, and J. C.
Speaker 1: Duggar talked about that, So I guess equine therapy. I
Speaker 1: always think about twenty eight days, but I guess it
Speaker 1: really helps.
Speaker 3: People with this sort of trauma.
Speaker 2: And she is an international and New York Times best
Speaker 2: selling author. Her memoir is called Finding Me, A Decade
Speaker 2: of Darkness, A Life Reclaimed, and then a follow up
Speaker 2: called Life After Darkness, Finding Healing and Happiness. She's married
Speaker 2: to who she calls the love of her life. And
Speaker 2: so you know, some good endings for these women. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and this guy, Daniel J. Flannery, he's a director for
Speaker 2: violence prevention Research and Education at Case Western Reserve University,
Speaker 2: and he says it's really not a one size fits
Speaker 2: all to how someone comes out of these situations to
Speaker 2: cope and reintegrate back into society. He says, some people write,
Speaker 2: some people talk, some people do advocacy, and in this case,
Speaker 2: all the women have done all of those things and
Speaker 2: multiple of those things. One bad thing though, is.
Speaker 1: And this has nothing to do with the case, but
Speaker 1: just you know, very final destination. But Gina was carjacked
Speaker 1: at gunpoint May twenty twenty one, so of this year,
Speaker 1: she was carjacked at gunpoint. A very Olivia Benson like,
Speaker 1: give this girl a break, leave her alone.
Speaker 2: She needs no more stuff. But she just gave them
Speaker 2: the keys without a fine and they drove off. And
Speaker 2: it's kind of once you go through what you go through,
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's like, take my shit, nothing matters, I
Speaker 2: know all about life. Also, while researching, there was a
Speaker 2: photo of this is just to end on like a
Speaker 2: more fun No, obviously we have a great interview, but
Speaker 2: and this this is a very heavy case. So this
Speaker 2: is just a little tidbit that I thought would be
Speaker 2: a nice positive moment. So during the research, there's an
Speaker 2: old People magazine cover, and of course, like there's no
Speaker 2: reason to like compare.
Speaker 3: Everyone's allowed to go through what they go through.
Speaker 2: But the cover was three Ohio Women Free after ten
Speaker 2: years an amazing escape, and it's it's about to be
Speaker 2: this giant People. And then on top the second the
Speaker 2: second headline is Bethany's Brutal Divorce.
Speaker 3: Bethany Frankel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I was just thinking about her being
Speaker 1: like the richest homeless woman in New York and like
Speaker 1: how dramat she has about our problems and that it's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure the divorce sucked, but just well
Speaker 1: in saying that that divorce kind of just ended and
Speaker 1: these women were found eight years ago. Yeah, like that's
Speaker 1: how long that dragged on in the National Nightmare. But wow, Liza,
Speaker 1: a lot of great info there. Thank you for walking
Speaker 1: us through that horror. I mean that just was like
Speaker 1: one of the most horrifying stories. I still feel like
Speaker 1: it's just one of the worst stories of modern times.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's like it also fucks with I mentioned
Speaker 2: this but your idea of what evil is and what
Speaker 2: evil looks like, and who these people are that come
Speaker 2: at these crimes and just the evil that lurks underneath.
Speaker 2: I mean, because the sinister like actions never ended. It
Speaker 2: was like ripping of the photos, making them watch their
Speaker 2: families ry on TV.
Speaker 3: Like it's more than just chains and rape. It's like
Speaker 3: it never ends. Like his is desire for sadasa set
Speaker 3: what is it?
Speaker 2: Sato makasichism, Yeah, statistic saticism, sadism.
Speaker 3: Ye satism, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it obviously doesn't make it better or worse,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it's like when you at least hear oh
Speaker 1: they were like a psychotic religious fanatic and they thought
Speaker 1: they were starting a call to followers or they were this,
Speaker 1: or they thought this or they thought that. Like it
Speaker 1: almost makes you be like, okay, I kind of see.
Speaker 1: This guy just was like I'm sick, and it's like no,
Speaker 1: you're not even like there's nothing even diagnosable about you.
Speaker 1: You just wanted to control women and not have to
Speaker 1: and have slaves.
Speaker 3: Essentially hated women.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to it's like who's worst him or Cameron Hooker?
Speaker 1: You know, well, I would say at least Cameron, at
Speaker 1: least at least Aeroel Castro let them like be together,
Speaker 1: talk to each other, come upstairs and watch Montel Williams.
Speaker 1: Like Cameron Hooker left a girl under a bed for
Speaker 1: seven years. I mean that it's like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: but same kind of situation with breaking them down. I mean,
Speaker 1: Cameron Hooker brought Colleen stand home to her family and
Speaker 1: she still went back to him. So it's like the
Speaker 1: bounds of Stockholm syndrome. Are you know these guys understand
Speaker 1: how to use that? I feel like what I'm like
Speaker 1: shaking off this case.
Speaker 3: It's so gross.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, And it is weird to think about Kimmy
Speaker 2: Schmidt at all as a show, Like it is weird
Speaker 2: to make a com is really weird. I don't get
Speaker 2: how it passed so many hands in how I watched
Speaker 2: a season of it, Like, I don't get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like they tried to make it really because
Speaker 1: I think they tried to make it really obviously.
Speaker 3: PG.
Speaker 1: It's like he just kidnapped them and left them, kept
Speaker 1: them in a bunker and told him the world was
Speaker 1: going to end. But there's never sexual abuse, Like there's never,
Speaker 1: And there are some episodes where Kimmy has to kind
Speaker 1: of confront what happened to her, but like it's still joky.
Speaker 3: It's like very thirty Row, you know, it's.
Speaker 1: Like Tina Fey, but it is really straight that I
Speaker 1: see that that's how it was inspired by that, but
Speaker 1: that they let it be so to the letter, like
Speaker 1: to the point that there was a Mike Britt character
Speaker 1: that's like that. I forget how the song goes. God,
Speaker 1: I used to have that song stuck in my head
Speaker 1: all the time. How does a song go to Kimi Schmid?
Speaker 3: I just remember he had like one moment.
Speaker 1: Where he would say, it's very reminiscent of Hyde, your wives,
Speaker 1: hide your hide your kids, Hyde your wives.
Speaker 3: But it's not that anyway. Yeah, I don't. It's just
Speaker 3: not funny.
Speaker 2: And it's really hard to think about other's people right now.
Speaker 1: Kidnapped, yeah, being held. Yeah, if you see something, say something.
Speaker 1: If you see a fucking hand reaching out of a
Speaker 1: storm door yelling help me, maybe call someone. But we'll
Speaker 1: get into that when we get into our post mortem.
Speaker 1: Let's get to our interview. We've got a really great one.
Speaker 3: All right, guys, today's guest.
Speaker 1: You may have seen most recently in the HBO series
Speaker 1: I Know This Much is.
Speaker 3: True, alongside Mark Ruffalo. Excuse me.
Speaker 1: You might recognize her from another SBU episode, a classic
Speaker 1: called Totem season twelve, but today you guys know her
Speaker 1: as Sissy or Kayla Grayland. Please check out our chat
Speaker 1: with the actress Agatha Nowiki all right, Hi Agatha, Right,
Speaker 1: I'm Kara.
Speaker 3: This is Lisa.
Speaker 4: Hi Kara. I'm Lisa.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for talking to us. Where are you.
Speaker 4: I'm in a fire Island. I'm in New or City.
Speaker 4: I'm on Fire Island.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed and I've never been I'm obsessed. I've always
Speaker 1: wanted to go there. I just watch all of my
Speaker 1: gay guy friends go there my whole life, and I've
Speaker 1: just always wanted to go.
Speaker 3: How fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so beautiful. Y Now, there's like no one
Speaker 5: here because it's like after seasons.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so cool. Are you doing pure vacation?
Speaker 4: No, I'm actually doing, like it's really crazy what I'm doing.
Speaker 4: I'm doing what they call a dream lab.
Speaker 5: So there's people here that are working on a script
Speaker 5: and they're trying to like develop the themes and the
Speaker 5: characters and the producers hired a bunch of actors to
Speaker 5: do like dreams on behalf of the characters, to infuse
Speaker 5: the material with like a higher level of consciousness and
Speaker 5: illuminate like greater themes in the script.
Speaker 3: So what is that? What do you mean dreams?
Speaker 1: What do you mean?
Speaker 5: Like I go to go to sleep at night and
Speaker 5: I'm given an assignment like have a dream that reveals
Speaker 5: Chloe's struggle or something. So then I like get up
Speaker 5: and I act out a dream and it's like a
Speaker 5: really weird dream, like me driving around in a Volvo
Speaker 5: chain smoking around like NYU or something. But somehow, through
Speaker 5: the process of like improvising that dream, it reveals a
Speaker 5: theme in that like a deeper theme in that character.
Speaker 4: And then the writers and producers are.
Speaker 5: Like, Oh, that's what that character is struggling with, and
Speaker 5: they add.
Speaker 3: That to the script.
Speaker 1: So you're almost collaborating on like the full play of
Speaker 1: the script.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, they're using the actors and they're subconscious to
Speaker 5: improve the writing.
Speaker 1: But so wait, you have to dream this yourself. What
Speaker 1: if you go to step and don't have a dream, No,
Speaker 1: you're acting out the dream.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're having the dream. So they give us a
Speaker 4: few nights.
Speaker 5: So we're here for like seven days, so we have
Speaker 5: a lot of time to catch a dream as they
Speaker 5: call it.
Speaker 3: Wow, oh dream lab. Damn.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for talking to us today. We love both
Speaker 1: of your episodes of SVU that you've been on. We
Speaker 1: watched both of them recently.
Speaker 4: Of course, which one are we talking about.
Speaker 1: Well today we're talking about in Prison Lives, but we
Speaker 1: would also love to talk about Totem as well.
Speaker 3: Okay, but both emotional parts.
Speaker 1: You really know how to cry and get the feels
Speaker 1: going on screen.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 5: I'm glad I'm an actor because it gives me a purpose,
Speaker 5: a place to go with all my big feelings.
Speaker 3: So it's not hard for you to cry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it is hard. I think it is hard.
Speaker 5: I can't think of it in terms of crying, otherwise
Speaker 5: I can't cry.
Speaker 4: There's funny enough.
Speaker 5: There's like a moment in this episode actually where I
Speaker 5: was on set and the director was like, okay, now,
Speaker 5: like because I killed my audition, Like I just cried
Speaker 5: a lot at the audition.
Speaker 4: It just like happened in the room.
Speaker 5: Because it's like, can never be the intention to cry,
Speaker 5: because then you're not thinking about the thing that would
Speaker 5: make you cry. You're thinking about how do I cry? Right,
Speaker 5: So it doesn't work like that. But so when I
Speaker 5: got to said we're shooting the first take, the director
Speaker 5: was like, Okay, now give us all that big emotion
Speaker 5: that you gave us in the room, and I was like,
Speaker 5: you might as well just have like shot.
Speaker 4: Me and yees.
Speaker 5: Now the pressure's on and the intention is about that.
Speaker 5: But it's okay, we got through it. We got through
Speaker 5: the episode.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, So tell me about the process of Like,
Speaker 1: so when you went in, you like you auditioned for Totem?
Speaker 5: Probably right, yes, So my audition story for Totem is
Speaker 5: really spectacular actually because I was in LA and I
Speaker 5: had no representation, and I had been doing theater in
Speaker 5: LA and I really wanted to work in television and
Speaker 5: I had worked like I had booked like one little
Speaker 5: Criminal Minds episode before something, and my manager.
Speaker 4: At the time, Robin Ziegler, she was like, so I.
Speaker 5: Did the craziest thing, but I submitted you for this
Speaker 5: guest star on Law and Order. And she's like, I
Speaker 5: know you're not here, but like if I get you
Speaker 5: the audition, like can.
Speaker 4: You get here?
Speaker 5: Like I don't know what to do it's like tomorrow,
Speaker 5: and I was like, what, she's like tomorrow.
Speaker 4: So I was like so broke.
Speaker 5: At this time, I called my dad and I was like,
Speaker 5: I'm going to just go, dude, because like, I've never
Speaker 5: had an audition this big, Like I've never had a
Speaker 5: guest star audition.
Speaker 4: I've only done like a co star before I called
Speaker 4: my dad.
Speaker 5: I was like, Dad, can I borrow like seven hundred
Speaker 5: dollars because it's that's how much the Red Eye costs
Speaker 5: for tomorrow because it's like last minute to New York City.
Speaker 5: And he gives it to me, and I go and
Speaker 5: I fly Red Eye and I wake up in the
Speaker 5: morning and I stop at my friend Chet's house.
Speaker 4: At the time, I was like, can I crash your
Speaker 4: pa for this audition? He's like sure.
Speaker 5: I walk up the Hudson River and like memorizing the
Speaker 5: lines for the totem audition, and I walk into the
Speaker 5: room and I get a call. I ended up getting
Speaker 5: a callback, so I was then I have to like
Speaker 5: push my flight and then I'm in New York City
Speaker 5: and then I end up getting that job, and then
Speaker 5: I actually ended up moving to New York City.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Wow, So it was like the biggest risk and it worked.
Speaker 3: What a dream?
Speaker 2: That is fantastical? And then have you been in New
Speaker 2: York this whole time? Or are you back and forth?
Speaker 4: I've always been kind of back and forth.
Speaker 5: I think I did like a good five solid years
Speaker 5: of like not going back and forth. But since then
Speaker 5: my work has kind of like moved me depending on
Speaker 5: what I'm doing, back and forth between LA and New York.
Speaker 1: Wow. And then so for In Prison Lives, did you
Speaker 1: have to audition again or do they just like bring
Speaker 1: you back or what was the deal with that one?
Speaker 5: In Prison Lives, Jonathan Strauss, the casting director, just called
Speaker 5: Robin and was like, I think Agatha would be really
Speaker 5: good for this. So obviously, because you look at the
Speaker 5: two episodes, you're like, how do we get an emotionally
Speaker 5: stunted person. It's like not totally there, but like can
Speaker 5: actually figure out how to play this role.
Speaker 4: And so because there.
Speaker 5: Are parallels obviously between those two characters. And then so
Speaker 5: I went in and yeah, I think I maybe went
Speaker 5: to just producers for that. I just went in and
Speaker 5: when Michael Slovis, the director was there, and it was
Speaker 5: one of those beautiful auditions. I mean it was just
Speaker 5: that moment where you like sit down in the chair
Speaker 5: and I think I did the first take and there
Speaker 5: was a little like tension and nervousness, and then Michael
Speaker 5: Slovis was just like, just do it for yourself, and
Speaker 5: there was this calm in the room and then it
Speaker 5: took over, you know, And.
Speaker 4: Then I was just like, it just took over.
Speaker 3: I might get that tattooed on my body. I like
Speaker 3: love that.
Speaker 4: I know. It's so powerful, I.
Speaker 3: Know, amazing.
Speaker 1: This role in Prison Lives is so I was just
Speaker 1: looking it up. I was looking up when Room came out,
Speaker 1: because this is very similar to the movie Room, but
Speaker 1: like you kind of you this role predates that, so
Speaker 1: you didn't even have you know, not that you not
Speaker 1: that you copy other actors' roles, but you know, that
Speaker 1: was like a huge role for Yes, I think she
Speaker 1: won an Oscar for it, you know, like so I know,
Speaker 1: you know, but you were the first she got her oscar.
Speaker 5: I was like, okay, but did you guys see my
Speaker 5: episode of Law and Order before this?
Speaker 3: Just kidding, No, it's awesome.
Speaker 2: And what's extra cool is you got to be there
Speaker 2: for the Neil Bear years and then the war in
Speaker 2: light years like early season, late season, and so we're curious,
Speaker 2: was it different vibes? How have things changed from you know,
Speaker 2: your first her second episode.
Speaker 5: Yeah, both of my experiences were really beautiful. I owe
Speaker 5: a lot of that, I think definitely to Marishika. She
Speaker 5: creates an environment on set that is I don't know, precious,
Speaker 5: She's the Mama bear, it's her set. She is aware
Speaker 5: of everything that's going on. She's the ultimate boss, like
Speaker 5: ultimate in charge of everything, but vulnerable at the drop
Speaker 5: of a hat, you know, And is that the saying
Speaker 5: I don't know? Okay, So she's there, She's so present,
Speaker 5: and so that made me feel like safe and I
Speaker 5: had a place I remember even on my first episode
Speaker 5: of Totem, you know, because this material is like both
Speaker 5: of them are so exposing, and you do show up
Speaker 5: with I have to show up with my most fragile
Speaker 5: kind of whatever.
Speaker 4: I have to take the guard down, right.
Speaker 5: So you need someone to be your guard and to
Speaker 5: be your advocate in order for you to be kind
Speaker 5: of focused on what you're supposed to be focused on.
Speaker 5: And I remember we were shooting one of the scenes
Speaker 5: in Murushka kind of like she put her hands on
Speaker 5: my shoulders and it was just like I knew she
Speaker 5: was holding space for me in the set and everyone
Speaker 5: was so loud, and then eventually she was just like
Speaker 5: you guys, silence.
Speaker 4: It was just suck.
Speaker 5: It was like it was like those kind of moments.
Speaker 5: It's like where she made me coming onto her set
Speaker 5: the priority that day, you know, and then there's an energy.
Speaker 5: So then you're just in that energy, that wonderful like
Speaker 5: law and order suspense energy of like there is a
Speaker 5: magic it's like what is going to happen, you know,
Speaker 5: and then it happened. So I was really great for
Speaker 5: that to that. And then Warren Light was tremendous. I
Speaker 5: mean tremendous because he comes from a theater background.
Speaker 4: So I had been in Hollywood.
Speaker 5: I had been doing the whole thing where I kept
Speaker 5: feeling like I didn't know how to have an artistic
Speaker 5: experience in that town. Not that there's not tons of
Speaker 5: artists in that town, but I it's such an industry
Speaker 5: town and there's such a sense of like a revolving
Speaker 5: door next whoever, and polished performances and there's just it's it's.
Speaker 4: Hard, you know. And from the beginning, like when I
Speaker 4: walked into Jonathan's room, the casting director Jonathan Strauss, he
Speaker 4: was just like, I mean, he was like on the
Speaker 4: floor with me doing the scene.
Speaker 5: I had never felt so like, wow, this is the point.
Speaker 5: We came into this room to find the truth of
Speaker 5: this character, and like you're in from from the beginning
Speaker 5: and you're holding space to that.
Speaker 4: And then Warren Late in the same way.
Speaker 5: I mean, he was just I don't know, just super
Speaker 5: fan and super warm. And even after the show he
Speaker 5: wrote me like recommendation letters for people and was like,
Speaker 5: Agatha was one of my favorite guest stors on the show,
Speaker 5: and like wow, walked around town with that letter and
Speaker 5: I got meetings and people paid attention.
Speaker 4: And Marishka did the same thing. I mean, everybody on
Speaker 4: that set.
Speaker 5: Kind of rallied for me afterwards to find representation to
Speaker 5: take meetings. Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 3: That's so cool.
Speaker 1: Wow, we love to hear this. I'm getting chills.
Speaker 3: That's so oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: She invited me like a Hollywood party, like in La
Speaker 5: Like I came back a holiday party. It was like
Speaker 5: a big grand gala benefit or something, just so I
Speaker 5: could come and like sit and next to Hillary Swank
Speaker 5: and all of her friends and she was just like,
Speaker 5: this is Agatha.
Speaker 4: She was on Law and Order. She's amazing, like so
Speaker 4: freaking generous, like so generous.
Speaker 1: It's like really wild because we've talked to a lot
Speaker 1: of actors from the show and everybody's like, oh, she
Speaker 1: the set's amazing, she's number one on the call sheet.
Speaker 3: She sets the tone. She's so great.
Speaker 1: And then like everybody we talked to has one more
Speaker 1: story that like notches it up. How amazing she is
Speaker 1: like to invite you to like a party like that
Speaker 1: and to try to get you representation.
Speaker 3: It's like out of this it's it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not heard of.
Speaker 3: Wow, that was so I really love everything you said.
Speaker 2: You also with this episode, not only with Marishka, but
Speaker 2: you got to work with like that episode is jam
Speaker 2: packed with so much of the cast. There's Amorrow, Rollins,
Speaker 2: Finn Munch, Kraigan, Barbara Cassidy. Like to have a overlap
Speaker 2: of all of those characters is really rare. And then
Speaker 2: you also got to work with Maloney in the past.
Speaker 2: Do you have any stories or moments with any of
Speaker 2: those people you'd like to share.
Speaker 5: I just am obsessed with Christopher Maloney, Like I was
Speaker 5: a Milan Arder fan and when I saw him on set,
Speaker 5: he's magical. He's like this honky alpha male in every
Speaker 5: kind of way, but like just a clown dork, you know.
Speaker 4: What I mean.
Speaker 5: And so it's like he was just making everybody laugh
Speaker 5: in between takes, and their chemistry is like so fun.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's like being in high school and being
Speaker 5: like the bad kids that are always like laughing in class,
Speaker 5: like when they shouldn't be or something like just a
Speaker 5: wonderful juxtaposition to the insanity. But I have to say
Speaker 5: that in the Totem episode, and this is what I
Speaker 5: get credit for most people mentioned to me from the
Speaker 5: show is like the confession scene.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember, but it's like really dark. Yeah,
Speaker 4: we were.
Speaker 5: In the room together, and Jeremy Irons was also guest
Speaker 5: starring on this episode, yeah, being most pedophile psychologists, which
Speaker 5: is also so crazy because my mother grew up like
Speaker 5: a hardcore Jeremy Irons fan. So it was like some
Speaker 5: cosmic manifestation where like the first rule I booked was
Speaker 5: like her fuck her crash from whatever. You know. Actually,
Speaker 5: Jeremy Irons called my mom from set that day to
Speaker 5: tell her, tell her like what a good job I did,
Speaker 5: Like it was just incredible.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, your mom must have been freaking out.
Speaker 5: She still has like the picture of me and like
Speaker 5: my creepy sweater and like looking all law and ordery
Speaker 5: with Jeremy irons, and she has it like on her
Speaker 5: office wall, like in front of the computer. It's like
Speaker 5: her proudest moment of me. So that scene in particular,
Speaker 5: it was also one of those things like I don't
Speaker 5: want to sound whatever it is, it is what it is.
Speaker 5: It's like sometimes your art just shows up for you,
Speaker 5: like you prepare and whatever, and you do everything you
Speaker 5: can to be relaxed and to be open to create
Speaker 5: a space for something to surprise you.
Speaker 4: And it felt like that, Like.
Speaker 5: Mushka and Jeremy were watching from the window, you know,
Speaker 5: and this is like a big deal in my mind.
Speaker 5: I'd never been on a set like this, so it's like, Okay,
Speaker 5: this is your big scene, you know. And like Chris
Speaker 5: Maloney's like sitting across from me, and Mushka and Jeremy
Speaker 5: are watching from the glass because it's the interview booth
Speaker 5: room or whatever. And I just remember looking at Chris
Speaker 5: and the compassion in his eyes and the empathy he
Speaker 5: looked at me with like carved that performance too. You know,
Speaker 5: he just like held space and I was like with
Speaker 5: him in that little bubble when something happened, you know.
Speaker 5: And when I watched that to this day, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 5: that's weird, Like it almost creeps me out because I
Speaker 5: can feel something coming through that's not totally me. You know.
Speaker 1: Wow, you're maybe one of the most prepared actors that
Speaker 1: we've talked to.
Speaker 4: Really, Wow, that's cool, and.
Speaker 2: The most in tune with a lot of stuff. I'm like,
Speaker 2: very in awe, I'm very into this convo. So when
Speaker 2: you would be in this method space, getting into these
Speaker 2: people or like these feelings, did it how.
Speaker 3: Do you shut it off? Or are you just kind
Speaker 3: of like I'm going to be sad for a few weeks.
Speaker 4: So the Law and Order episodes really drained me.
Speaker 5: I'll tell you, Like, I left those both of those
Speaker 5: sets with like a migraine and dehydrated because I and
Speaker 5: not because of anything anyone did on set to me,
Speaker 5: just because of what I did to myself on set.
Speaker 5: And I'm not advocating this for actors. I just because
Speaker 5: I cared so much to do a good job, and
Speaker 5: because I hadn't had that much experience yet on set,
Speaker 5: I really felt like I had.
Speaker 4: To cocoon myself in it. And I know people, eventually.
Speaker 5: You get better, and I have gotten better as I've
Speaker 5: gotten older, of like just tapping it, knowing when you're
Speaker 5: going to tap in, and to like manage the timing
Speaker 5: of that so you're not just like I'm going to
Speaker 5: sit in a suffering pile of.
Speaker 4: Hell for two weeks, you know, Like I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't really work that way anymore, I think, But
Speaker 5: for those episodes I did, I did. I dropped in
Speaker 5: and I hung out in there until I was kind
Speaker 5: of done.
Speaker 2: So you're not going back to the hotel and like
Speaker 2: eating pizza and watching a show, you kind of stay
Speaker 2: and say yeah.
Speaker 5: And I was like very besides, like with Marishka and
Speaker 5: in between my scenes on set, very much in my trailer,
Speaker 5: I was working. I was working to like the knock
Speaker 5: on the door came and I said, like I told
Speaker 5: the ad, I said, just give me fifteen minutes, because
Speaker 5: sometimes they forget with the guest stars to like let
Speaker 5: them know, you know, like it's just there's so much
Speaker 5: to manage, and it's like, you know, you're not that important,
Speaker 5: so it's like you almost have to advocate for yourself, Like, look,
Speaker 5: I know I'm part of this like well oiled machine,
Speaker 5: but like I just need a little bit of a
Speaker 5: headsup so that I show up prepared on set, you know.
Speaker 5: So I just kind of went into my room and yeah,
Speaker 5: I just started working, doing like relaxation exercises, listening to music,
Speaker 5: and then starting to do my sensory work, which is
Speaker 5: like the two episodes were really different. I actually did
Speaker 5: the craziest prep for the totem because there was a
Speaker 5: lot of physicality in that girl because she was like,
Speaker 5: sorry to say, I'm sure it's not shocking to your audience,
Speaker 5: but she molested children. And I was like, I don't
Speaker 5: even know how to go there. I'm not going to
Speaker 5: go there, right, Like, I don't molest children. I'm not
Speaker 5: going to go there in my mind, But what is that?
Speaker 5: And I'm like, the only way you can do that
Speaker 5: is if you believe you're not doing anything wrong, Like
Speaker 5: if you believe somehow that like that's your version of love,
Speaker 5: you know, And in all characters, you have to come
Speaker 5: up with the reason why their intentions work for them.
Speaker 5: You know why there's no because no one doesn't most people,
Speaker 5: unless you're like Jeffrey Naumer whatever, These really fucked up
Speaker 5: people like you have some good reasoning for why you're
Speaker 5: doing what you're doing, and it's your job to find
Speaker 5: that in the character. So like for Totem, I knew
Speaker 5: she had to be stunted. I knew that her mother
Speaker 5: had done that to her, so I knew that she
Speaker 5: equated that with love, and that when she founded in
Speaker 5: another kid, she was just going to be passing on
Speaker 5: this behavior.
Speaker 4: So I knew there was like a developmental.
Speaker 5: Thing, and I had an acting class, like forever Ago
Speaker 5: worked on. This sounds crazy, but this is how it works.
Speaker 5: I had worked on a sea lion external. So you
Speaker 5: take the externals of an animal, which are like you know,
Speaker 5: rocking back and forth and begging for fish, and if
Speaker 5: you like, keep making that smaller movement smaller and smaller
Speaker 5: and living in that energy, you just have the vibe
Speaker 5: of like begging and not being totally there in like
Speaker 5: a one track mind. So I did that. That's like
Speaker 5: my secret trick for that whole episode. So I did
Speaker 5: a sea lion external like the whole time. But when
Speaker 5: people watch that show, I think that's what they resonate with.
Speaker 5: It's like something's going on. You don't know what you
Speaker 5: know that's so interesting?
Speaker 2: And did you pick a sea lion or is that
Speaker 2: a common thing? Do you do other animals? Sometimes I
Speaker 2: do other I've done other animals.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I have that one like in my bag
Speaker 5: of tricks from like some workshop I had done and
Speaker 5: when I had translated it in a class, because you
Speaker 5: take it from the animal form into the human form
Speaker 5: slowly so that you don't lose the rhythms of the animal,
Speaker 5: and then you see the effects. And so the feedback
Speaker 5: I got from everybody when I was doing that was
Speaker 5: that looks like a stunted person, and that looks like
Speaker 5: a person with a developmental disorder, looks like a person
Speaker 5: that's unsure of themselves.
Speaker 4: In their body. So it was kind of like I
Speaker 4: have certain certain animals.
Speaker 5: I know kind of what energy they stimulate in me
Speaker 5: and what it kind of like looks like from the outside,
Speaker 5: you know. So it was like a collision of perfect moments,
Speaker 5: Like I read that script and I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: I need something developmentally stunted and I was like, I
Speaker 5: have it, and I just like it was like what
Speaker 5: they say about actors, like preparation meeting opportunity.
Speaker 4: Like that's what that moment was, you.
Speaker 2: Know, wow, because I don't even think Seline, but that's like,
Speaker 2: but they are totally shape.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just I see. It's kind of like
Speaker 3: a like revealing a magic trick in a way where
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, Okay, I see it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, now go back and watch it and look for
Speaker 4: the ceiling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I get the My new spiritual healer I
Speaker 3: did was the all Along.
Speaker 1: Isn't that from that show? It was Agatha all Along? Yeah,
Speaker 1: from I don't know what you're talking about. Okay, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. It's from what's that show
Speaker 1: that was just huge during pandemic. I keep wanting to
Speaker 1: say wonder Woman, and it's it's fucking oh WandaVision, WandaVision anyway.
Speaker 3: Catherine Hahn is Agatha anyway?
Speaker 1: Agatha Nowiki was so cool and she told us also
Speaker 1: that she was a writer's room in this new HBO
Speaker 1: show called Gorilla and the Bird, which is from Jean
Speaker 1: Mark Ballet, the guy who did Big Little Lies.
Speaker 3: Hello.
Speaker 1: So keep an eye out for that when it comes out.
Speaker 1: I mean, this episode, this case so fucking difficult. I
Speaker 1: don't know what the post mortem is like, never walk
Speaker 1: anywhere by yourself, women constantly carry a knife on you
Speaker 1: and a gun.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, because we researched lots of different things,
Speaker 2: and I think I've realized the cases that fuck me
Speaker 2: up the hardest are the like contained multi year torture,
Speaker 2: not being able to leave situations.
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm unique.
Speaker 2: I'm sure some people can relate, but I think these
Speaker 2: are the worst for me to think about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and like just being Yeah, it's really tough.
Speaker 2: But I hope these women are continuing to heal and
Speaker 2: thrive and have positive lives and good things happen to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And I feel like we learned a
Speaker 1: lot from Agatha. She had a lot of amazing insights and.
Speaker 2: Be a seal baby, go back to That's what I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: acting like, go to your most animalistic, pure human emo,
Speaker 2: like not human emotion, animal emotion, animal instinct.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like narrow. I don't know, it's it was very interesting.
Speaker 2: But also about this that criminals are not smart, they're disgusting.
Speaker 2: Cops are not smart, they're bad at their jobs, and
Speaker 2: everyone's a nightmare.
Speaker 3: So keep that in your pocket. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Ooh, and I love that guy who said I knew
Speaker 1: something was wrong when a white lady came running into
Speaker 1: my arms.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love a hero. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I am horrified by this case and as a nation,
Speaker 2: and it sucks that he was able to not We
Speaker 2: all wanted him to live the constricted life that he
Speaker 2: put onto others, a real eye for an eye situation,
Speaker 2: and it's like it's a collective weird thing that he
Speaker 2: was able to end it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I did forget. We forgot to talk about this last week.
Speaker 2: You know, I was catching up on the SVUS. But
Speaker 2: Johnny Pemperton, our friend who does comedy, really killed it.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, if you caught the episode that was about
Speaker 1: an ice cream truck driver who was assaulting women while
Speaker 1: their children watched Nightmare of nightmares. The rapist was our
Speaker 1: friend Johnny, and he.
Speaker 3: Is not a rapist in real life.
Speaker 1: Such a good guy and did a great job and
Speaker 1: had to wear amazing prosthetic makeup to make his face
Speaker 1: look like he got beat up in jail, and it
Speaker 1: was tough to see your pal.
Speaker 2: He also got to get tackled by all the detectives.
Speaker 3: I mean, I was like, you had a role of
Speaker 3: a lifetime.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so check out Johnny in that episode. But
Speaker 1: we'll try to have him on the pod. Meanwhile, meanwhile,
Speaker 1: so are There's so many pauses.
Speaker 2: I do feel this case weighs heavy on my heart
Speaker 2: and mind, Like I get into a spiral where I
Speaker 2: just like imagine being tricked by my friend's dad and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, now I'm being raped for
Speaker 2: a decade, covered in chains in a room.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But also it's just crazy that the cops couldn't put
Speaker 1: it together that this that this man was a through
Speaker 1: line between all of them, that his daughter knew all
Speaker 1: of them, and like, I don't know, I just want
Speaker 1: the cops to do better with finding these kinds of
Speaker 1: things because it's so horrific, and you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of it's racists. I feel like too, that they couldn't
Speaker 1: find some of these girls or classes that they just
Speaker 1: thought that these girls were like, oh they ran away,
Speaker 1: They're gone, you know where A Like who knows if
Speaker 1: it was like wealthy, sweet little pigtail blonde girls, we
Speaker 1: might have found them. You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, this week for our what was Sister peg Do segment, which,
Speaker 1: as you know, is our segment where we highlight an
Speaker 1: organization or an article or a book or something they
Speaker 1: can give you more information about what we talked about.
Speaker 1: In today's episode, we wanted to bring to your attention
Speaker 1: an organization called Cleveland Missing, which is Cleveland Missing dot
Speaker 1: org and it was founded by Gina Dijesus, one of
Speaker 1: the victims of this horrible crime, and she founded this
Speaker 1: alongside her cousin and social activist Sylvia Cologne, and its
Speaker 1: mission is to deter abductions, exploitations, and trafficking of all
Speaker 1: ages and genders and to establish a place for families
Speaker 1: and survivors to come for support and resources. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: do community prevention training, raise awareness and are trying to
Speaker 1: bring you know, safety and security to all of Cleveland citizens.
Speaker 1: So check out their website for ways to donate or
Speaker 1: check out their events, resources and more stuff. Cleveland Missing
Speaker 1: dot org. Thanks for that. I do love Cleveland a
Speaker 1: lot so beautiful art museum. Anyways, was that a weird
Speaker 1: thing to say?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: Okay, so listen.
Speaker 2: Next week's episode is Witness, another classic you might know
Speaker 2: what is the episode with Nardalie Season eleven, episode sixteen.
Speaker 3: Join us on this journey on.
Speaker 1: Hulu, Peacock, or wherever you are able to watch sv
Speaker 1: You thanks for watching JK listening to That's Messed Up.
Speaker 3: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
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Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah.
Speaker 1: Kyle Kraton, and to our sound engineer and personal hero
Speaker 1: Analie Snilson, and.
Speaker 3: To Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean
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Speaker 1: Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgariff, Daniel Kramer,
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