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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know

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Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: That's Chuck. I'm Josh. This is the Stuff you should Know,

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Speaker 1: coming to you live from Studio one, a deep within

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Speaker 1: the bowels of How Stuff Works corporate headquarters in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: Georgia's gross. Yeah, I like to do that once in

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Speaker 1: a right, Nice, Chuck. My father spent the better part

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Speaker 1: of the late nineties is kind of um well. He

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Speaker 1: took a lot of pills. Okay, they were all herbal.

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Speaker 1: They were all herbal supplements, mind you. But he would

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Speaker 1: take like um uppers in the morning, like herbal uppers. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: And then he'd take like herbal downers like two oh

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Speaker 1: twos or four or four as I can't remember what

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Speaker 1: they're called um in the evening, you know, to relax.

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Speaker 1: And I call him the herbal Elvis and uh and

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Speaker 1: I kid you not. He did this like he up

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Speaker 1: and down and up and down, and finally he kick

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Speaker 1: the habit. I guess, I don't know if he takes

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Speaker 1: I know he takes a lot of vitamins and stuff

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Speaker 1: but I think it's it's healthier. Um. And plus now

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Speaker 1: he's retired, he has less reason to wake up in

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Speaker 1: the morning as long as he didn't pass away on

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Speaker 1: the toilet, you know, he hasn't. He hasn't, and thank god.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is that it kind of points out

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Speaker 1: like herbs can really pack a punch, you know. UM.

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Speaker 1: Like take mahuiang for example, um mahuang, better known in

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Speaker 1: this country as a fedra or a phedron, which is

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Speaker 1: actually the alkaloid, the isolated alkaloid of mahuang, which actually

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Speaker 1: in Chinese means bitter yellow, mahuyang bitter yellow at points.

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Speaker 1: It's to the the color of this little evergreen shrub

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Speaker 1: in the horrible taste of its leaves. Um mahwang has

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Speaker 1: a terrible taste, bitter yellow taste. UM. So you know,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese have been using the shrub for like five

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Speaker 1: thousand years, right, and they're not really having a lot

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Speaker 1: of trouble with it. Um. It comes to the United

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Speaker 1: States and the nineties, and all of a sudden, between

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Speaker 1: like the early nineties and two thousand three, there's like

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Speaker 1: sixteen thousand cases of death and injury reported to the

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Speaker 1: Federal government. Right, you've got truckers and college students popping

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Speaker 1: white crosses. It's uh. They're also a key ingredient in

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Speaker 1: so I mean, what happens what happened, right? I mean

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Speaker 1: the Chinese will happen to stuff for five thousand years,

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Speaker 1: it comes to the US and within a decade, sixteen

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Speaker 1: thousand people dropped like flies. I'll tell you what happens.

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Speaker 1: Americans love to get high. It's as simple as that.

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Speaker 1: Abuse exactly. It's abuse. It's a lack of understands, the

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Speaker 1: lack of respect um to the Chinese. What what we

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Speaker 1: consider herbs they consider drugs, and what we consider herbs

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Speaker 1: we don't really fear. We find them all natural, we don't.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not regulated by the FDA, so how

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Speaker 1: could it be harmful? That's one of the interesting things

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Speaker 1: that I think you pointed out was if something is

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Speaker 1: the more heavily something is regulated, the more people will

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Speaker 1: fear less something is regulated, the more they think it's

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Speaker 1: just fine. Exactly. Like think about how you perceive tile

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Speaker 1: and all, and then how you perceive taile and all three.

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Speaker 1: That's stuff with codeine, which is pretty much like eight

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Speaker 1: milligrams of taile and all think something like that, really

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Speaker 1: not that big of a difference. If you've ever taken them,

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Speaker 1: the difference isn't significant. But yet ones like under lock

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Speaker 1: and key behind you know, the pharmacists counter, and the

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Speaker 1: other ones is right out where God and everybody can

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Speaker 1: shoplift it exactly. So, I mean you perceive them as

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Speaker 1: different because they're regulated, because the government's like whoa, whoa,

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Speaker 1: whoa pal. You just need to kind of back off that.

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Speaker 1: With herbs, there's no regulation whatsoever. They don't even sell

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Speaker 1: them in the same place as the taile and all,

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Speaker 1: so they seem even less significant as far as the

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Speaker 1: health risks go. But that's not true. There's plenty of

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Speaker 1: herbs out there that are just crazy potent um like detera.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know what an angel's trumpet is? Uh No,

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Speaker 1: I don't. It's not an article. Don't boither looking for it.

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Speaker 1: You can find an angeal angels trumpet plant in um

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Speaker 1: just about any southern backyard. They have like these long

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Speaker 1: trumpet shaped flowers, hence the name um. And if you

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Speaker 1: eat one of those flowers within an hour, you will

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Speaker 1: be baying at the moon and beating up the cops

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Speaker 1: who come to arrescue. It will drive you nuts. And

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Speaker 1: this is just an ornamental plant in US, no one

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Speaker 1: has any clue about it. Sounds like, yeah, I've never

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Speaker 1: I've never had the gall to actually eat one because

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Speaker 1: I don't like eating grass, which is apparently another side effect.

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Speaker 1: I think you might have licked a toad or two

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Speaker 1: in your data. Well. Actually, I've seen warnings to gardeners

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Speaker 1: saying if you have an Angel's trumpet plant and you're

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Speaker 1: messing with it, especially the flowers, like do not rub

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Speaker 1: your eyes, wash your hand, it will send you on

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Speaker 1: a wild ride. It's interesting. That's just one of many

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Speaker 1: um monkshood. It's one of the most potent chemical compounds,

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Speaker 1: naturally occurring compounds known to man. Can kill you, oh

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Speaker 1: very easily, stop your stop your heart and lung function,

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Speaker 1: just from handling it. Yeah. So, I mean there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of potent herbs out there because they grow from

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Speaker 1: the ground. Right. Because we have been wean we've been

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Speaker 1: at the forefront of modern medicine, we kind of disregard herbs.

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Speaker 1: That's another one that was an interesting one, wasn't Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the hallucinogenic uh. And I think you mentioned Jamestown

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Speaker 1: in your article. Yeah, detachment of the Jamestown Colony militia

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Speaker 1: ate a bunch of that, and it's salad. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: we just went crazy. We're just basically tripping for several days.

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Speaker 1: I think the guy who described it said they turned

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Speaker 1: to natural fools upon it for several days. So all

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Speaker 1: but that was quite a shock to them. Yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: they didn't get a lot of work done those days.

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Speaker 1: But Okay, so I think we've established the argument that

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Speaker 1: herbs are potent very much. And the problem is as

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Speaker 1: Americans don't have a an ingrained respect for their potency

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Speaker 1: as do some of the older cultures. Right and beyond

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Speaker 1: that Americans, Uh, in the in the nineteen nineties and

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Speaker 1: uh into the two thousands, uh, traditional Chinese medicine became

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Speaker 1: more and more popular. So not only are these herbs

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Speaker 1: packing a punch and not regulated, but people really started

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Speaker 1: getting into it. Yeah, and and uh, what's the one St.

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Speaker 1: John's wort? You know, people think that these are just

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Speaker 1: cure alls. Well, and and it's not that they're not.

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Speaker 1: It's not that they don't have properties. This isn't like

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Speaker 1: snake oil that we're talking about. Um, it's that since

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Speaker 1: they're not regulated since they're not really looked into. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you have to effectively self medicate or listen to some

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Speaker 1: jerk at the health food store who may or may

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Speaker 1: not have any idea what he or she's talking about. Right, Um,

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Speaker 1: so it can be kind of dangerous. The problem is

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Speaker 1: is because of you know, the the arrogance of Western

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Speaker 1: medicine that it's the only true, viable and effective medicine. UM.

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Speaker 1: People pick up on that. So when people started taking herbs,

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Speaker 1: just average Joe's patients will call them um when they

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Speaker 1: started taking herbs. A two thousand three survey found that

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Speaker 1: seventy of people who take herbs don't tell their doctors

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Speaker 1: about them, right, because they're afraid they're going to be

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Speaker 1: told to not take them anymore. Right, which is a

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Speaker 1: which is a good fear, because you know, doctors don't

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Speaker 1: understand herbs anymore than the guy at the health food

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Speaker 1: store doesn't probably last. Um. So you've got that problem

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Speaker 1: and as a result, this thing called complimentary and alternative

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Speaker 1: medicine came about. It was basically saying, look, people are

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Speaker 1: running around taking herbs. We need to incorporate these other

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Speaker 1: medicines into western modern medicine. And see what we can do.

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Speaker 1: It's probably a good idea. It was a great idea

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Speaker 1: because traditional medicines generally are best at curing chronic diseases,

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Speaker 1: are handling chronic diseases, whereas western modern medicine is best

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Speaker 1: at acute diseases or acute you know, uh, conditions. So

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Speaker 1: my rule of thumb has always been rheumatoid arthreadis traditional medicine, right,

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Speaker 1: shot in the leg? You want to go with the

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Speaker 1: western medicine? Yeah, so gunshot wounded, Western medicine a good rule.

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Speaker 1: Rheumatoid arth threats, Yeah, do you want to go with

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Speaker 1: the traditional mission. So there was a movement to incorporate

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Speaker 1: these two. Uh. And the problem is is again, doctors

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Speaker 1: don't know any more about herbs than you or I,

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Speaker 1: and doctors can get sued a lot more easily if

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Speaker 1: they say take this herb and the person dies. If

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Speaker 1: we say that, we're just like, oh man, sorry I

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Speaker 1: didn't do that. Doctors like, okay, well there goes my practice.

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Speaker 1: Um So, of course doctors aren't going to recommend the stuff.

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Speaker 1: So c am cam never took off at all. And

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Speaker 1: um so, why why wouldn't the FDA regulate herbs? Well? Uh,

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Speaker 1: I think the research you found or you posited was

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Speaker 1: that urban ingredients, UM and supplements don't have to be

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Speaker 1: classified as drugs their dietary supplements. No, that's exactly right,

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Speaker 1: and this came about through the Dietary Supplement Health and

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Speaker 1: Education Act, which was issued in which is right. When

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Speaker 1: this stuff is really gearing up, there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions like should the FDA get involved in the

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Speaker 1: government said no, not only that, we're gonna put herbs

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Speaker 1: squarely out of the FDA's jurisdiction. See with UM any

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Speaker 1: kind of pharmaceutical, even even in over over the counter

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Speaker 1: drug Are we talking about approval here? Yeah, where you

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Speaker 1: and I would have to basically test these compounds testimon

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Speaker 1: rats and then you know, possibly other primates and then

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Speaker 1: moved human trials. It costs millions of dollars, and not

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Speaker 1: necessarily to the pharmaceutical companies. They get a lot of

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Speaker 1: their research done for free by universities. But it does

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Speaker 1: somebody's putting in millions. If not, you know, tens of

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars and an average of eight and a

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Speaker 1: half years to get it to the FDA for approval.

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Speaker 1: And the FDA either says no or they say yes,

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Speaker 1: and then they decreate as a controlled substance like a pharmaceutical,

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Speaker 1: prescribed pharmacy or over the counter. Right right. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was interesting that you you the fact that only

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Speaker 1: point one percent of compounds first tested received FDA approval.

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Speaker 1: That is way way low. Yeah, and I mean completely

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Speaker 1: I have to go back to the drawing board. But

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Speaker 1: you have to prove step by step that this is

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Speaker 1: not harmful to humans before the FDA approves it. What

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Speaker 1: the Dietary Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, the d

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Speaker 1: s h g A basically says, is not anymore, not

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Speaker 1: with herbal, not with herbal supplements. Yeah, these shoes. On

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Speaker 1: the other foot, the FDA has to prove that these

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Speaker 1: herbs are harmful before they can get them taken off

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Speaker 1: the shelves. And basically they have to prove that the

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Speaker 1: herb poses a a significant health risk or an imminent

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Speaker 1: public health risk, public safety risk. Yeah. And I bet

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Speaker 1: that FDA only gets involved if there are you know

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Speaker 1: a bunch of cases where this happens. Yeah, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like think about right exactly. Um So, and it's a

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Speaker 1: really long process. It's a really involved process, and the

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Speaker 1: FDA like most other federal agencies, is perennially understaffed and underfunded,

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Speaker 1: so it can be very difficult to get something taken

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Speaker 1: off the market, even if it is, you know, hurting

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Speaker 1: people in the meantime, it stays on the market until

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Speaker 1: they can you know, draw that line exactly. So, um,

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Speaker 1: there there are some limitations to it to what a

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Speaker 1: dietary supplement. Herbal manufacturers can say. One thing they can't

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Speaker 1: do is they can't say that their, um, their products treat, cure,

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Speaker 1: or mitigate a disease right now. This is how they

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Speaker 1: market themselves. Correct. Yes, yeah, So for example, uh, somebody

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Speaker 1: who who manufactures an herbal supplement with passion flower, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they can't say that the product treats anxiety. Instead, they

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Speaker 1: can say something like it quiets an anxious mind, right,

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Speaker 1: which to me sounds a lot like the old nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century tonic commercials Tonic every times like Heroin. It quiets

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Speaker 1: the anxious mind kind of thing. You know. It sounds

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Speaker 1: a lot like that, and it gets the same point

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Speaker 1: across as well. You're basically saying anxious anxiety, same thing quiets,

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Speaker 1: cures whatever. Um. There's also one other thing that that

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Speaker 1: you you can't use ingredients that are already banned. UM.

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Speaker 1: In April two thousand and seven, a Chinese product called

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Speaker 1: sang Jong Zoo tong Tan I believe that's what it's called.

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Speaker 1: Probably just butchered it um. It was taken off the

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Speaker 1: market in the US because it contained human placenta. So

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Speaker 1: the FDA does have some teeth her there. But for

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Speaker 1: the most part, if you and I want to go

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Speaker 1: somewhere and you know, manufacture it, we can sell them

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Speaker 1: to our hearts content, kill a bunch of people, make

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, and then get out before the

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Speaker 1: FDA can ever say, bood kick back on the beach somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Let's go do it with life. Yeah. So, if you

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Speaker 1: want to find out more about herbal supplements, the FDA,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of other stuff, just go check it all out.

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Speaker 1: Use our handy search bar at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: It's a cornu copia of information pharmacopia for more on

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Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Because it how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com, let us know what should be Send

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Speaker 1: an email to podcast at how stuff works dot com.

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