Speaker 1: We don't know. We can't know what combat feels like,
Speaker 1: what we're turning home with life changing wounds feels like
Speaker 1: unless we've been through that. And only about one percent
Speaker 1: of Americans have seen war up close, but my guest has.
Speaker 1: Bob Woodriff is an ABC News correspondent. He was embedded
Speaker 1: with forces in Iraq when a roadside bomb almost took
Speaker 1: his life and certainly altered his path and his purpose
Speaker 1: and his families. My little my little daughter, Norah. I've
Speaker 1: got twin adorable little girls, and they were five years
Speaker 1: old when I was hit, and about six months after
Speaker 1: I came back, still had all of these wounds all
Speaker 1: over my body, and I couldn't remember a lot of things. Um,
Speaker 1: and she my daughter asked me. She asked. She was
Speaker 1: talking to my wife Lee, and she says, Mom, you know, ah,
Speaker 1: Dad's head seems to have that because they cut off
Speaker 1: part of my skullies. You've got that dented head. And
Speaker 1: mom says, don't worry. That's they're going to put that
Speaker 1: skull back on. It'll be fun. And mommy's got all
Speaker 1: of these scars all over his back. Don't worry, sweet,
Speaker 1: that'll get better. And my dad's got all these little
Speaker 1: pieces of metal and rocks and implanted in the left
Speaker 1: part of his jaw. She says, don't worry those popping
Speaker 1: out one at a time. That's gonna be fine. And
Speaker 1: she said, you know, mom noll, the I think my
Speaker 1: dad loves me even more than he did before. Now,
Speaker 1: whether that was an expression of it, um, maybe it
Speaker 1: indicated something. I felt so lucky to be alive. The
Speaker 1: tank Bob was riding and was hit by that I
Speaker 1: e ed in early two thousand and six, just a
Speaker 1: month after he earned the coveted co anchor chair in
Speaker 1: ABC World News Tonight. He's still doing great work for
Speaker 1: ABC News, but his injuries created another life mission, giving
Speaker 1: aid and hope to wounded veterans, service members and their
Speaker 1: families to the Bob Woodrow Foundation. We talked about what's
Speaker 1: needed now and what we can do to support them.
Speaker 1: What they really want is they want a job, you know,
Speaker 1: they want to have their life better. Not just somebody
Speaker 1: shouting out and say, you know you served, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. But I'm not going to do anything more
Speaker 1: than that. You know, I'm not going to do anything
Speaker 1: else to help you. Uh. The big thing is not
Speaker 1: just to say or to show how much you love them.
Speaker 1: It's really more about doing something behind the curtain, to
Speaker 1: do something for them. Bob believes recognizing and trusting in
Speaker 1: the potential of veterans to use their skills and experiences
Speaker 1: and do great things goes so far. Marine veteran Kiante's
Speaker 1: story in the companion episode of this one said his
Speaker 1: postcombat turning point was one person believing in him, and
Speaker 1: he took it from there. There's a lot to take
Speaker 1: away from this conversation with Bob Woodriff. Was great reconnecting
Speaker 1: five years after learning so much from him covering the
Speaker 1: Invictus Games together in two thousand and sixteen. Bob, thanks
Speaker 1: for joining us. It's nice to reconnect with you. I
Speaker 1: loved our brief time working together with the Invictus Games,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate your time and your wisdom and your
Speaker 1: expertise on this. Yeah, Chris, it's great to see you
Speaker 1: again or listen to you again. I don't know what
Speaker 1: defense of his audio or video both, but I think
Speaker 1: that shedding light on the issues that we're gonna get
Speaker 1: into is important. So let's start with this. You you
Speaker 1: were a war correspondent for about a decade you saw
Speaker 1: up close the Iraq conflict. You've had other experiences with
Speaker 1: with people in combat. What is not understood or appreciated
Speaker 1: enough by those of us that have not had that
Speaker 1: experience about the nature of those kinds of conflicts, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting that, yes, if you go and you
Speaker 1: embed with the military out in a in a war zone,
Speaker 1: you get very close to them. But it's not just
Speaker 1: the people of America that don't have the chance to
Speaker 1: go and and experience this and get to get to
Speaker 1: know them, you know, they're in the war zones. It's
Speaker 1: interesting in our country that we have very little contact
Speaker 1: with the military, those of us on the civilian world.
Speaker 1: It's well below one percent of Americans, you know, serve
Speaker 1: in the military, So you don't get a chance to
Speaker 1: really get to know them very well unless you have
Speaker 1: the opportunity opportunity to do so, whether you're visiting a
Speaker 1: base or if you happen to be alongside them when
Speaker 1: they're when they're engaged in war. So it's it's it's
Speaker 1: it's really different than than it was historically. When you
Speaker 1: look back when we're young, you know, you and I
Speaker 1: were growing up in the has Has young teenagers, you know,
Speaker 1: and at the time of the Vietnam War where people
Speaker 1: got to contact with them, World War two, Korean War,
Speaker 1: even the numbers are very high percentage wise. But now
Speaker 1: it's just so small and the voluntary military that we
Speaker 1: just don't have that much of a relationship with those
Speaker 1: in the in the forces. We hear about wars, but
Speaker 1: I think our understanding is of war at a thirty
Speaker 1: thousand foot level. We have a general idea that many
Speaker 1: thousands are involved, a bunch of money is involved. We
Speaker 1: have a vague idea about what the overall mission is
Speaker 1: as it's expressed to us. But the day to day,
Speaker 1: what it's like, what their experiences, those of the personnel
Speaker 1: that are fighting these wars, no understanding at all. You've
Speaker 1: got a chance to see that up close, well, you know.
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting though, Chris, that we had more coverage
Speaker 1: of the when the when the wars were peaking in
Speaker 1: the Rock and Afghanistan, because we had so much embedding,
Speaker 1: we had the chance to broadcast more, put it out
Speaker 1: on radio and really get a sense of what it
Speaker 1: was like to be engaged compared to certainly compared you know,
Speaker 1: to some of the more religious more wars that were
Speaker 1: not long befine before this, you know, so we had
Speaker 1: a chance to be there a lot of people covering it.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's it's different the world and they
Speaker 1: the personality when you're actually fighting out there's different than
Speaker 1: what you're like when you come back and you engage
Speaker 1: and the military goes back into you know, the veterans
Speaker 1: go back into the civilian world. It's uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just it's a different world. It's an isolation. You know.
Speaker 1: They just don't get the chance to get any attention
Speaker 1: or coverage when they're back and they're not fighting out
Speaker 1: there in the fields and on the sand. So you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's something so much that America needs
Speaker 1: to learn more about the lives of those veterans, Not
Speaker 1: so much really when they're in the in the in
Speaker 1: the war, but when they come back and they're living
Speaker 1: in a normal, ordinary life like the rest of us.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what I want to talk about today,
Speaker 1: because the military civilian component of this is enormous. The
Speaker 1: the mindset of those who do the fighting. What is
Speaker 1: not well understood about that. I mean, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a broad question, I know, But for those of us
Speaker 1: that have not been in combat, not seeing what they do,
Speaker 1: seeing what they were turning from, and have no understanding
Speaker 1: about why the adjustment is so difficult. UM take take
Speaker 1: us inside an armored vehicle and inside the heads of
Speaker 1: those guys as best you can. You know, I am
Speaker 1: I embedded twice. I came in the invasion of a
Speaker 1: Rock back in two thousand three with the with the Marines,
Speaker 1: first L A. R. And then the second time I
Speaker 1: embedded was when I was hit, which was with the
Speaker 1: Army with a fourth Infantry in two thousand and six
Speaker 1: in January, which is when we were hit, you know,
Speaker 1: And that when I only and the first time I embedded,
Speaker 1: I was there for for months with them preparing for
Speaker 1: the invasion and after the invasion, and this time I
Speaker 1: had actually come in in about five days before we
Speaker 1: were ultimately hit and and wounded. I was only really
Speaker 1: with them for about five days and that was experienced
Speaker 1: not inside a tank most of the time. But we
Speaker 1: were going village to villa just to try to learn
Speaker 1: more about what the Iraqis needed and wanted so we
Speaker 1: could ultimately the US could ultimately hand the power over
Speaker 1: and the responsibility over to the Iraqi military, so we
Speaker 1: were out there with both both both the US forces
Speaker 1: and the Iraqi forces. So I the life in there
Speaker 1: was very short lived. In the first l a R
Speaker 1: and the vehicle on the way into the invasion, that
Speaker 1: was one we've learned. We learned how to eat the
Speaker 1: boxes of food, we learned how to uh, you know,
Speaker 1: let's go to the bathroom, you know, on the sand,
Speaker 1: in all sorts of ways. You know. We just couldn't
Speaker 1: get out of the vehicle for eleven hours at a times,
Speaker 1: just because we didn't want to be exposed to possible
Speaker 1: explosions i e. D. You know, improvised explosive devices, so
Speaker 1: we had to be somewhat cautious about that. So it's
Speaker 1: two very different experiences for me h going in with
Speaker 1: the Marines and then going out with the army. The
Speaker 1: experience when you're hit, you're in an Iraqi town, inc
Speaker 1: As you've told it, you you poke your head out
Speaker 1: of the top of the vehicle to do a stand up,
Speaker 1: which is an on camera because the audio wasn't great
Speaker 1: the first time, and then boom um, everything about your
Speaker 1: life when the course sort of changes in an instant there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I have some regrets about it. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's absolutely the case. People ask me, would you
Speaker 1: have advice that if there was a an explosion or
Speaker 1: the possibility of an explosion and you were out there
Speaker 1: in the sand, I said, well, make sure you duck
Speaker 1: after it's because it was. I was hit very badly
Speaker 1: on the left side of my of my my head,
Speaker 1: so it knocked me out instantly, and I then I
Speaker 1: fell back into the tank and I actually woke up
Speaker 1: for about one minute before you know, the expansion of
Speaker 1: my brain ultimately knocked me out for the next thirty
Speaker 1: six days. But when I went inside, I saw my
Speaker 1: other team, my my producer and my sound man am
Speaker 1: I and my shooter that that, uh, we're down there.
Speaker 1: They're all fine ish. Actually, my cameraman, Doug Vote was
Speaker 1: really badly hit too, but he did not go unconscious
Speaker 1: at the time. And I turned to them and I said,
Speaker 1: are we still alive? And they said, uh, yeah, we're alive.
Speaker 1: And that's the last thing I remembered until I woke up,
Speaker 1: you know in March. You know, this was January twenty
Speaker 1: nine that was hit, So it was three thirty six
Speaker 1: days later. It was. It was. It was an explosion
Speaker 1: that kind of ultimately taught me a topic in details
Speaker 1: that I never would have had any idea what to understand.
Speaker 1: I did not understand them before. I didn't know what
Speaker 1: an improvised explosive device was in terms of what it,
Speaker 1: what it, what happens if you're hit by it. I
Speaker 1: knew what they were, I just didn't know really what
Speaker 1: the life was like when you were ultimately wounded in
Speaker 1: a war. So it was a brand new topic that
Speaker 1: I suddenly in an instant, became a student in. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's been now slightly more than fifteen years since this happened.
Speaker 1: Do you want to dive into what you lost but
Speaker 1: also what you gained that experience because you just hit it,
Speaker 1: not it. But I do think that when you went
Speaker 1: through what far too many soldiers go through that kind
Speaker 1: of injury, you gain an understanding that only someone who's
Speaker 1: been through it can and that's allowed you to trying
Speaker 1: to light on it, make a connection with them through
Speaker 1: your foundation. And obviously we'll get to all that, but
Speaker 1: you you now understand things in a way that very
Speaker 1: very few thankfully civilians can. Yeah, you know there are
Speaker 1: there are you know that's that's funny you say that, Chris,
Speaker 1: because there's there are people that asked me that too.
Speaker 1: Is there's obviously downsides, negative parts of getting hit us,
Speaker 1: and there are some positive things that can happen in
Speaker 1: your life that give you a different opportunity because you
Speaker 1: really have to get off the old path that you
Speaker 1: were on. It's really hard for everybody that's wounded to
Speaker 1: give in to this and to admit or just face
Speaker 1: the reality that you cannot do exactly the same thing
Speaker 1: that you used to be able to do. I had
Speaker 1: I had a loss of memory because of this blast
Speaker 1: on the left side of my brain. I had never
Speaker 1: lost I've not lost the opportunity to think and understand things.
Speaker 1: I just can't come up with the words. So and
Speaker 1: I sometimes I said, I wish I wish I had
Speaker 1: more of a physical career that I was on, like
Speaker 1: a like a surgeon, where I could just figure out
Speaker 1: how to how to rebuild your knees and things, because
Speaker 1: I don't really need to know the names of all
Speaker 1: those joints that the patients would not like that idea
Speaker 1: where I'd asked them, you know, what's the name of
Speaker 1: that neat thing? You have there. I can't, but I
Speaker 1: could physically fix it because I didn't need to have
Speaker 1: words for it. So I lost my opportunity. So I
Speaker 1: was really instantly give having that I was. I was
Speaker 1: a reporter. I had to go live and report like you, Chris,
Speaker 1: and I just I just lost the ability to make
Speaker 1: sure I got the names right, you know, already, to
Speaker 1: remember the name I came out, you said, remembering the
Speaker 1: names of your kids and your brothers, and the states
Speaker 1: and the presidents. And it just wasn't there, which obviously,
Speaker 1: in its own way, is as a terrifying new reality.
Speaker 1: Thankfully that that has faded, right, Yeah, that I mean,
Speaker 1: this is it. It's like night and day. What what
Speaker 1: life was like when I had just woken up. You know,
Speaker 1: I just couldn't remember the name of two of my
Speaker 1: four kids, pretty sad um. I could remember other names
Speaker 1: that I never to that to this day, I don't
Speaker 1: understand why were those ones? Names that I can remember
Speaker 1: are words that I can remember, and other ones I didn't.
Speaker 1: But the problem is I didn't have so many um,
Speaker 1: so many words that I could use to finish my point,
Speaker 1: and it was just really quite embarrassing in the beginning
Speaker 1: of that. So I I knew I had to get
Speaker 1: out of exactly this the kind of reporting I did before. Um,
Speaker 1: but it took me a long time to realize. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to anchor World News tonight again. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to be covering the Why House where there's
Speaker 1: moments where I couldn't remember the name of the vice president.
Speaker 1: You know, I knew that I couldn't do that because
Speaker 1: I had a it's called a phasia, which is really
Speaker 1: the blast to the left part of the of the
Speaker 1: head um. You know, you can get hit a different
Speaker 1: angles of your brain. You can get you know, depression.
Speaker 1: If it's hit on this side, you can hear, you know,
Speaker 1: you can lose languages and words. You can hit on
Speaker 1: the left side. Uh, you know, there's depression from difference.
Speaker 1: So there's different things about the brand I didn't know
Speaker 1: about before, And suddenly I knew that I had to
Speaker 1: change change my path. Almost miraculous you survived. You talked
Speaker 1: about the medical care you received right on the spot,
Speaker 1: and then at the various hospitals. We become incredibly good
Speaker 1: at keeping people alive and dealing with the immediate physical
Speaker 1: trauma and the the very obvious wounds of war. It's
Speaker 1: the next level of the wounds, the ones you don't see,
Speaker 1: the ones that sneak up on you, the ones that
Speaker 1: linger for years. That's what Bob I think as a nation,
Speaker 1: we're still grappling with understanding the depth in the skoo
Speaker 1: to that problem, then what to do about it. You
Speaker 1: had a chance to buy your first hand experience, sort
Speaker 1: of get a window on that, you know, I with
Speaker 1: without without questions. You know, I do say the one
Speaker 1: I went to UH does enable which part of Walter
Speaker 1: Reid down in d C, in Berkeley, in in uh
Speaker 1: wash in d C. That was remarkable advancements in medicine.
Speaker 1: You know, they do say a lot, and it's true
Speaker 1: that wars, if there are good things is they have
Speaker 1: developed new kind of treatment and surgery, et cetera for
Speaker 1: the medical world. I mean, the care was amazing for
Speaker 1: all of us, For me who was a civilian right
Speaker 1: there in the military hospital surrounded by largely Marines as
Speaker 1: this was, but does enable which is you know, as
Speaker 1: you enable which in the Marines are part of the navy. Uh.
Speaker 1: And this was the place that was really concentrating on
Speaker 1: brain injury as opposed to you know, amputation and burns,
Speaker 1: which is a specialty, and other other hospitals. So there
Speaker 1: I was getting this amazing treatment, and I also, you know,
Speaker 1: I saw that it wasn't so much really the the
Speaker 1: doctors and the nurses, they were not giving them quite
Speaker 1: the same treatment as I got. Was coming to a
Speaker 1: sense of lacking the kind of luck and and resources
Speaker 1: that I did. I was, you know, twenty four years old.
Speaker 1: At forty four years old, at the time, I had
Speaker 1: my family, I had ABC was behind me. I was
Speaker 1: being so much well supported, and I realized that on
Speaker 1: that same third floor, but as enabled with other unconscious,
Speaker 1: badly wounded hit by I E ed patients like me,
Speaker 1: and some of them did not have the family surrounding them.
Speaker 1: In some cases they had no one their family members
Speaker 1: because they at that point did not get the rights
Speaker 1: and the abilities two keep their jobs and come and
Speaker 1: visit their their son or daughter while they're they're recovering,
Speaker 1: almost dead. And then that was really when we realized
Speaker 1: that something needs to be done. You know, I woke
Speaker 1: up and and it took me a long time to
Speaker 1: realize how badly I was hit. I didn't even I
Speaker 1: didn't even know when I woke up, part of my
Speaker 1: skull had been removed. It took some time before my
Speaker 1: family to really want to tell me that news, but
Speaker 1: I woke up, Wow, I'm back. Everything is miraculous. And
Speaker 1: that's when I learned that everybody on that floor with me,
Speaker 1: we're going to uh really descend into major depression because
Speaker 1: they realized that their lives are not the same. That's
Speaker 1: another way that you can relate in a way that
Speaker 1: very few of his can to what the many many,
Speaker 1: many thousands of soldiers would come home with the invisible wounds.
Speaker 1: I mean, you went through I'm sure stages of it.
Speaker 1: You've lost you you said, speech and memory essential tools
Speaker 1: to your job. Um, most people would be very angry
Speaker 1: about that. You have to go through those stages. And
Speaker 1: then depression obviously is as a companion to that. What's
Speaker 1: misunderstood about the severity of that and what the struggle
Speaker 1: that people go through. Yeah, you know this this is
Speaker 1: another thing, like like I said before, in terms of
Speaker 1: you compared to some previous wars, we had so much,
Speaker 1: so much coverage of it that was going on. People
Speaker 1: saw what these worlds, what these weapons were like, and
Speaker 1: what they're seeing out there and But the other one
Speaker 1: that was different about this war, completely different one compared
Speaker 1: different ones, is because of the advanced medicine, lives were
Speaker 1: saved that we're not saved in previous wars. In fact,
Speaker 1: they I was told that five years earlier, if I
Speaker 1: had hit with the exactly the same I E D
Speaker 1: and I had the same ability, the same kind of
Speaker 1: treatment once I got in, that I probably would not
Speaker 1: have survived. They were able to develop things that they
Speaker 1: never would have, that they didn't really have before, so
Speaker 1: that the medical care was was so good that they
Speaker 1: were able to save people that would not have been
Speaker 1: saved before. On top of all of that, that they
Speaker 1: they had numbers um because of these uh different kite
Speaker 1: because they were I e ED explosions, they were hitting
Speaker 1: that those were hitting people from the side. Um when
Speaker 1: you're in a rock and they're hitting you from the
Speaker 1: underneath when you're in Afghanistan. Because Afghanistan had dirt roads
Speaker 1: and Iraq had largely pavement roads. So the insurgents they
Speaker 1: wanted to plant an I e d. As, they put
Speaker 1: it on the side because they couldn't get it underneath pavement.
Speaker 1: In a rock, they would go underneath Afghanistan, you go
Speaker 1: from underneath. So in Iraq there's a lot of these
Speaker 1: blasts from the side, which means tons of brain injuries,
Speaker 1: you know. Then in Afghanistan a lot of amputations because
Speaker 1: they came from Underneathan blew off your arms and your legs,
Speaker 1: So it's kind of interesting to see those that part
Speaker 1: of the war. But given the fact that some of
Speaker 1: these wounds because of the blasts, as opposed to bullets
Speaker 1: and explosions that you know, knocked you out, there were,
Speaker 1: as you said, a lot of invisible wounds, the ones
Speaker 1: you couldn't really see, and that created problems in the
Speaker 1: sense that no one really knew what to do, and
Speaker 1: they didn't really know what they were, and they knew that.
Speaker 1: Some did not want to ever admit that they had
Speaker 1: something that no one saw because because it was it
Speaker 1: was looked within the military, especially as is embarrassing. It's
Speaker 1: like you're being wimpy or something. If you want to
Speaker 1: say that you're not the same condition as you were
Speaker 1: because you can't see anything. Was it was easy for
Speaker 1: me to convince people because mind was so obvious. But
Speaker 1: I knew that there was a lot had kind of
Speaker 1: these new wounds that didn't exist that much before. So
Speaker 1: those are physical. And then there's always the multiple deployments
Speaker 1: in this war. Because it's voluntary military, we have such
Speaker 1: small numbers of American serving and a very big wars
Speaker 1: going head to head to Iraq and Afghanistan. They had
Speaker 1: so many deployments that people developed kinds of depression and
Speaker 1: traumatic brain and brand that too, but also PTSD post
Speaker 1: traumatic stress. Let's talk more about what's different with these
Speaker 1: wars because the it's been more than twenty years since
Speaker 1: the presence in both Iraq and Afghanistan began. Officially Iraq
Speaker 1: was nine years, but they're still at presents Afghanistan stretching
Speaker 1: towards two decades now. And as you said, a lot
Speaker 1: of it it's the same soldiers fighting again and again
Speaker 1: and going back and forth, which I mean in Afghanistan
Speaker 1: alone is longer than both World Wars and the Korean
Speaker 1: War combined. So what's unique and challenging about the problems
Speaker 1: that they faced just because of this year length of it,
Speaker 1: well the length of it they didn't one, they didn't
Speaker 1: know when their last deployment was going to be. I mean,
Speaker 1: they would go one after another after another, whereas you
Speaker 1: look at Vietnam, people would do like one deployment because
Speaker 1: there were so many they were they were drafted in
Speaker 1: this case, they didn't really know a how often they
Speaker 1: were gonna go will they have to go again? And
Speaker 1: then secondly, there was not this because sometimes I like
Speaker 1: to compare Less to Vietnam because there's almost like the
Speaker 1: opposite war and the treatment of the military. But back then,
Speaker 1: you you'd go back to the Saigon and go party
Speaker 1: and smoke pot. What are you gonna do? And then
Speaker 1: you go back to the war zone and you knew
Speaker 1: there was separated completely. You know, you knew almost certainly
Speaker 1: you're not going to get blown up by an I E. D.
Speaker 1: In downtown Saigon. You know, you go to a different world.
Speaker 1: And then when you were it was intense and many
Speaker 1: ways more intense because less protected when you're fighting in Vietnam,
Speaker 1: but you at least you knew where it was. In
Speaker 1: a rock and Afghanistan, every day you were vulnerable, something
Speaker 1: could have happened, and that created another kind of traumatic
Speaker 1: of another kind of uh, post traumatic stress. There wasn't
Speaker 1: quite the intensity of it back and Vie Vietnams. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that kind of stress was created the treatment they got
Speaker 1: when they got home, by the militant, by the civilian world.
Speaker 1: You know, that's another huge difference in this. And compared
Speaker 1: to vietn Um the Rock in Afghanistan, that's well put.
Speaker 1: You sort of had the line between friend and foe
Speaker 1: slightly more clearly drawn there. It must be quite fuzzy
Speaker 1: for those that have fought in these marathon wars in
Speaker 1: the Middle East because that there is no time when
Speaker 1: you can take a deep breath and relax, And I
Speaker 1: imagine the psychological told that will continue to take on
Speaker 1: all of the of the soldiers fought there for the
Speaker 1: rest of their lives. We're gonna be dealing with this
Speaker 1: for decades, just because of the severity of that. And
Speaker 1: and you point out very well other wars sort of here,
Speaker 1: we're over here, there, over there, here's the line, and
Speaker 1: although it's terrifying and violent, it's slightly more clearly drawn
Speaker 1: and therefore, uh doesn't create the same level of anxiety
Speaker 1: I would imagine after the fact. Yeah, But the one
Speaker 1: one that one that it is the same is that
Speaker 1: they're asymmetrical wars. You know, we we're the ones with
Speaker 1: all the amazing weapons and planes and boats and bullets
Speaker 1: and I E ed explosions, and you know, the opposition
Speaker 1: in these wars, that so called enemies were the ones
Speaker 1: that were were hiding and didn't have much, but they
Speaker 1: would never they would never give up. It was hard
Speaker 1: to get them to succumb because they were they were
Speaker 1: the ones that were did not have the kind of
Speaker 1: pressure on them two to win with every battle they
Speaker 1: would they were more likely to die and not give up.
Speaker 1: So they were both asymmetrical wars, all of the back
Speaker 1: in Vietnam and the ones we've got now in a
Speaker 1: rock and Afghanistan. So in that sense they were the same.
Speaker 1: It was a wake up that these wars, it's hard
Speaker 1: to define what the wind is. It doesn't you don't
Speaker 1: really understand when it is that you could withdraw. World
Speaker 1: War two was so obvious that it was surrenders. They
Speaker 1: wrote the document, they signed the paper and says we
Speaker 1: now officially lost. The war is over. You know, those
Speaker 1: days are over. So that added yet more stressed not
Speaker 1: only to those on the sands, but those back in
Speaker 1: Pentagon because they didn't know really what to do and
Speaker 1: how long this would last. They're real it's still there.
Speaker 1: Your experiences created an awareness which was a call to action.
Speaker 1: You and your wife. Lee is a very gifted author
Speaker 1: and and and advocate as well, and she's been handed
Speaker 1: hand with you for for more than three decades now.
Speaker 1: The Bob Wader Foundation does a great job at finding
Speaker 1: ways to fill in the gaps that big government can't.
Speaker 1: I know, you sometimes think outside the box and and
Speaker 1: find ways to serve communities that are underserved and represented.
Speaker 1: What what's misunderstood about the most urgent needs for veterans
Speaker 1: now who come home with their physical wounds, whether it's
Speaker 1: UH amputations, dealing with prosthetics, or the invisible wounds. What's
Speaker 1: what do we not understand about what the challenges are
Speaker 1: and how to meet them? You know, in the beginning,
Speaker 1: it was it was a world that people just didn't
Speaker 1: know much about. You know, people didn't civilians us and
Speaker 1: my friends, and didn't really know where they were going
Speaker 1: when they came back from the hospital on the recovery.
Speaker 1: So in the beginning we really needed to try to
Speaker 1: get them anything that the that the v A and
Speaker 1: the d O D we're not really dealing with because
Speaker 1: a they were overwhelmed by the number of wounds that
Speaker 1: happened UH and Secondly, they didn't really think that this
Speaker 1: this war would create the kind of wounds that were
Speaker 1: in many cases were invisible. So we knew that we
Speaker 1: had to help people literally get something set up for
Speaker 1: them when they went back to the civilian world because
Speaker 1: they're no longer living on the base. They had to
Speaker 1: come from the hospital to home that they had to
Speaker 1: figure out how to pay for it, they had to
Speaker 1: figure out how to survive. The government was overwhelmed to
Speaker 1: try to fix that. We knew that there are so
Speaker 1: many people in the civilian world. They wanted to contribute,
Speaker 1: they wanted to do something. It was just really complicated,
Speaker 1: uh difficult to understand what it is that needed to
Speaker 1: be done. So in the beginning, it was trying to
Speaker 1: help those are just returned and on recovering from a
Speaker 1: wound in a brand new world for them. Now that
Speaker 1: that's not really the case, you know, the problem is
Speaker 1: not to try to open up the local community for
Speaker 1: those that are suffering. But there's other issues that have
Speaker 1: lasted for from the beginning, which is you know, certainly
Speaker 1: depression because the lives have changed, and there's and there's
Speaker 1: a huge numbers of suicide within the military because the
Speaker 1: life has changed so quickly, you know, and now with
Speaker 1: with families, there is uh you know, there's there's food
Speaker 1: in security because of what's happening because of COVID. So
Speaker 1: our foundation this year is concentrating a lot on helping
Speaker 1: those that uh, you know, the military, the veterans that
Speaker 1: they need as much help as they can to deal
Speaker 1: with what that kind of uh insecurity food experience, because
Speaker 1: a lot of in case this this in many cases
Speaker 1: are the Vietnam vets because they're older, they're living in
Speaker 1: the nursing homes. The highest number of deaths because of
Speaker 1: COVID are in the nursing home. And it's it's interesting, Chris,
Speaker 1: that how how how willing are those veterans to accept
Speaker 1: and want help from the outside. Sometimes you've got to
Speaker 1: push them a little bit to take it. You know.
Speaker 1: They talk a lot about we don't want pity, and
Speaker 1: they have great dignity and in some some cases they
Speaker 1: don't want to admit that they don't have enough food.
Speaker 1: But it is the case. So the percentage of those uh,
Speaker 1: those that don't you know, on their own seek for
Speaker 1: help is lower percentage than it is in the civilian world.
Speaker 1: We're more likely to do it. You know, again, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like that macheesmore thing that people know. There's
Speaker 1: a stigma about being wounded in the war if you
Speaker 1: don't see it, as I said, But it's kind of
Speaker 1: the same a little bit with insecurity, with you know,
Speaker 1: feeding your family no matter what your age, is nothing
Speaker 1: more basic than that. When you talk about helping veterans
Speaker 1: and helping them deal with the consequences of war, it
Speaker 1: should be where it seems to be mostly a political
Speaker 1: but then you have to get the funding at the
Speaker 1: the the v A. The budget was just increased from
Speaker 1: last year. It's two forty three billion in the new budget,
Speaker 1: bob up billion. The budget from mental health ten point
Speaker 1: three billion has been earmarked. Sounds like a staggering number.
Speaker 1: It's about four percent by my math of the total budget,
Speaker 1: and then of that three twelve million, so a much
Speaker 1: smaller percentage is directly earmarked to suicide prevention. And what's
Speaker 1: more important than keeping someone alive. You can't help them
Speaker 1: if they don't see a reason to live, and you
Speaker 1: can't deal with that immediate crisis. What's your reaction to
Speaker 1: to that commitment and how does it translate to actual
Speaker 1: health because the numbers do sound pretty staggering, But is
Speaker 1: that just a fraction of what needs to be done.
Speaker 1: This need to be spent more smartly than it is
Speaker 1: being spent. Well, it's interesting those those two topics you
Speaker 1: just said, is because those are the ones that have
Speaker 1: have lasted for a couple of decades. Now after nine eleven,
Speaker 1: that is still a problem. You know, the physical kind
Speaker 1: of assistance, um, you know, to build new devices so
Speaker 1: you can walk better if your have amputation, or you
Speaker 1: need to have more surgery for badly burnt you know,
Speaker 1: that was finished you know years ago. Those kinds of
Speaker 1: wounds are not really happening. But the ones that are
Speaker 1: not going away is you know mental health, uh, suicide, depression,
Speaker 1: And that's why that's getting the biggest increase in funding
Speaker 1: from the government because they know these things have not
Speaker 1: been solved yet. Despite the fact that the v A
Speaker 1: has gotten a lot better at all of this than
Speaker 1: it was before, because it's like I said, they were
Speaker 1: overwhelmed and there was brand new to them. But now
Speaker 1: they've really they've actually done a pretty good job now
Speaker 1: compared to before to try to help this. But they
Speaker 1: definitely need more people. They need more development um and
Speaker 1: they need to have the ability to recognize where these
Speaker 1: problems are happening, because not everybody comes forward right away
Speaker 1: to do it. So, yes, it's in a perfect world,
Speaker 1: gris for all of this. Put more money in it,
Speaker 1: you know, put more attention to it. Uh, then you
Speaker 1: can fill yourself with all sorts of politics on this
Speaker 1: is how much funded with But you know, we're pushing
Speaker 1: as much as we can to get somebody to participate
Speaker 1: in it, in it if the government's not handling. And
Speaker 1: so we've got people a lot of the volunteer their
Speaker 1: time and people that want to donate some money to
Speaker 1: try to happen in the in the private civilian world
Speaker 1: of uh philanthropy, we're getting some of that participation by
Speaker 1: people too, So we're getting more. But in a purple
Speaker 1: world we get some. It would be nice to get
Speaker 1: even more support. Yeah, I mean the increase in the
Speaker 1: v A budget in the last twenty years has been
Speaker 1: up fivefold. But the problem continues to just to mushroom
Speaker 1: and grow their staffed. And there's politics, Bob, and then
Speaker 1: there's just the the the nitty gritty to face to
Speaker 1: face Kiante story and marine that we both know who
Speaker 1: lost part of his right leg in Afghanistan and has
Speaker 1: been a great athlete at the Paralympics and the Invictus Games.
Speaker 1: Could used to be a spokesman for for these causes.
Speaker 1: My conversation with him, he talked about the moment where
Speaker 1: in the dark days, coming back and adjusting to his
Speaker 1: new life and wrestling with it the best he can,
Speaker 1: but but being depressed and realizing one days it looked
Speaker 1: in the mirror that he was abusing his pain mediciication,
Speaker 1: that that wasn't who he wanted to be. It wasn't
Speaker 1: who he was in his words, So the awareness to
Speaker 1: realize that, then the strength of will to quit those
Speaker 1: medications cold turkey and deal with the side effects and
Speaker 1: deal with the pain. Not everybody has that, but those
Speaker 1: are the kinds of personal struggles that millions go through
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis in front of the mirror.
Speaker 1: What can you share from your conversations with so many
Speaker 1: that you stay in touch with about the very personal
Speaker 1: day to day struggles of these folks that need to
Speaker 1: be better addressed. Yeah, you've got to. You've got to
Speaker 1: find your mission and you've got to You've gotta find
Speaker 1: something that's different than you did before. You know, you
Speaker 1: have to admit finally that you're not going to go
Speaker 1: on that same path you had before. So once you
Speaker 1: can figure out a way that that you can, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, get an idea of what it is you
Speaker 1: want to accomplish and therefore have the ability to move
Speaker 1: towards it. That is the one that in some ways
Speaker 1: kind of it's the only way really to help your
Speaker 1: depression and they get yourself out of it, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, sports is one of them. That's why he said, County.
Speaker 1: He's he's like an amazing athlete. In the last time
Speaker 1: I saw him personally was out at at one of
Speaker 1: the Invictus Games, where he of course was winning. Because
Speaker 1: he's an amazing sport athlete. To be in with and
Speaker 1: to do it without a leg, I mean, that's I mean,
Speaker 1: what can you do? You know, what can you say?
Speaker 1: The thing is he actually wasn't a great athlete before.
Speaker 1: I put that down in his strength of will man
Speaker 1: and and balls, because he wasn't like a track athlete
Speaker 1: before he was injury. He just decided this is going
Speaker 1: to be something for me that's gonna save my my santity.
Speaker 1: Maybe saved my life, and so I'm gonna pour myself
Speaker 1: into it and work hard. And winning races was something
Speaker 1: new to him. He wasn't like he was an athlete
Speaker 1: before this happened. He just found something and then dove
Speaker 1: into it. And he ran marathons without ever training for
Speaker 1: more than five miles at a time. Just he just
Speaker 1: gutted it out, not not not not advised, but he
Speaker 1: did it. You don't. You don't have to get blown up,
Speaker 1: hit by a bomb in one of the worst to know.
Speaker 1: You know how big sports is. It's to you, it's
Speaker 1: to me. I mean I played sports my entire life
Speaker 1: and you know what I didn't really understand before was
Speaker 1: what the impact of sports are on on your brain too.
Speaker 1: So it's mine, you know, count he's his his physical
Speaker 1: his with you know, he's an amputee uh sports. It's
Speaker 1: crucial to him to just to prove that he can
Speaker 1: still do it. He doesn't need all these legs right
Speaker 1: to do his sport. And by the way, we can
Speaker 1: use all sorts of humor with each other. I got
Speaker 1: that right now. I can we make jokes about each other.
Speaker 1: But so he's got that, and maybe maybe you ought
Speaker 1: to be an empt two, Chris, maybe even faster than
Speaker 1: you were before. UH and they would say his this
Speaker 1: physical one. What I didn't really know was the impact
Speaker 1: of sports style on your on your brain. I think
Speaker 1: we maybe you all, I mean, you know it too
Speaker 1: because you're in the in the world of it, um,
Speaker 1: but I just didn't realize how crucial that is to
Speaker 1: develop and maintain the health of your brain. I remember
Speaker 1: I did a I did a participated in an event
Speaker 1: out in Stanford where I had a bunch of doctors
Speaker 1: in the university UH in the fitness stadium there, and
Speaker 1: we all talked about dramatic brain injury and then how
Speaker 1: to make it get with the recovery and then you know,
Speaker 1: neurosurgeon neurologists would were there to give the advice to people.
Speaker 1: So one of the questions from the when the stands
Speaker 1: were give me the three most important ways to improve
Speaker 1: the intensity and health of your brain. And he said, well,
Speaker 1: there's three ways to do it. Exercise, exercise, exercise. You
Speaker 1: know that blood flowing through your head is the ones
Speaker 1: that have an impact on it, and so no matter
Speaker 1: even if you have traumatic brain injury or nothing, you
Speaker 1: know that getting that flowing through your head is get
Speaker 1: the most most influence over over your mental health. You've
Speaker 1: talked about other things too, The power of laughter. Humor
Speaker 1: is essential, the power of music. You believe in that.
Speaker 1: Those are two other topics of podcasts because they do
Speaker 1: have an amazing ability to connect in our brains and
Speaker 1: make us more resilient and and take the focus sometimes
Speaker 1: where it needs to be and help ease the pain.
Speaker 1: So anything at our disposal that that you've got, I know,
Speaker 1: is essential to help folks get through with what they
Speaker 1: have to get through. Yeah, in any anyway. I mean listen,
Speaker 1: family and friends are just absolutely that's the other one.
Speaker 1: You've got to have that and engage with other people.
Speaker 1: I mean one of the ones that's really launches pole
Speaker 1: or makes them forces them downward into the world of depression.
Speaker 1: Um and yah. All sorts of kinds of of other
Speaker 1: problems too. Is isolation if there's any way that you
Speaker 1: can find a way to interact with people, which is
Speaker 1: you know what, COVID has completely destroyed a lot of
Speaker 1: this because people can't go in the offices, they can't
Speaker 1: even come in contact with people. And even if you're
Speaker 1: doing out of a mask on or everyone's worried about
Speaker 1: getting something. So that has really accelerated. This is that
Speaker 1: is that I actually hit veterans and even even harder
Speaker 1: because of that, because of the intense need to have
Speaker 1: that the comradeship that was a big part of their service,
Speaker 1: that was the part of the intensity of the experiences
Speaker 1: of what helped them get through every day well in
Speaker 1: combat and well at home. And now a lot of
Speaker 1: it has taken away, Bob, because of the world, at
Speaker 1: least temporarily the world we're living in right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is well before COVID, Chris. I mean this is
Speaker 1: you know, you if you go and you're you're at war,
Speaker 1: you wake up in the morning with the same people
Speaker 1: you go to bed with at night, you know, or
Speaker 1: going the same place to sleep, but necessarily to bed.
Speaker 1: But then you go to bed surrounded by the same
Speaker 1: people next day, the same things. So one of the
Speaker 1: biggest problems, um, whether you're wounded or not, when you
Speaker 1: come back from serving there for thirteen months in Iraq
Speaker 1: or Afghanistan, you come back and you've got a completely
Speaker 1: different team of people that you're with, and it's a
Speaker 1: much larger, more wide collection of people that you don't
Speaker 1: have that tight, tight relationship having lived through the same
Speaker 1: things an intensity that you somehow survived and came through.
Speaker 1: You don't have that kind of relationship that's quite as
Speaker 1: you know, healthy, as as it was over there, isn't that.
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting, right, you're going to serve in the
Speaker 1: war and you've got things that make your life so
Speaker 1: much better when you're there compared to when you come
Speaker 1: back and spend time in peace because the thing changed
Speaker 1: so so much, and you put all that now force
Speaker 1: that into the crisis we're going through in our country
Speaker 1: right now with COVID, you're even more isolated, with more
Speaker 1: bad news and pressing things every day that you know
Speaker 1: that is, yes, that's that's that's hurt perhaps those that
Speaker 1: were wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan because they had already
Speaker 1: gone through it. I just want to make sure that
Speaker 1: people know that too. When I talk about the wounded
Speaker 1: in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know, this is you know,
Speaker 1: one one quarter maybe of those who served that have
Speaker 1: gone through something like this. You know, most of them
Speaker 1: have come back you know, healthy, you know, and and
Speaker 1: the last thing they want to think is that we
Speaker 1: all think that they were at the war, and they're
Speaker 1: wounded and they're they're not able to do the same
Speaker 1: as they did before. I just want to make sure
Speaker 1: that that's that that's clear. But those that did have
Speaker 1: something that happened over there, it's been really double a
Speaker 1: double whammy. For the majority, you come back healthy physically.
Speaker 1: I still think it's import and to keep an eye
Speaker 1: on them and make sure that their needs are being
Speaker 1: met because although they don't want pity, they don't be
Speaker 1: all they need help. These are still tough things they've
Speaker 1: gone through and you don't you can't fully appreciate perhaps
Speaker 1: the echoes and what the what the repercussions are about.
Speaker 1: And we need to be I think it's a society
Speaker 1: aware of that and attentive to that because they may
Speaker 1: have come back able body to not believe they quote
Speaker 1: need help, because it's still the stigma to reaching out
Speaker 1: for that, especially when you come from a culture where
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be um strong and and sturdy. But
Speaker 1: I think we need to keep on eye on that
Speaker 1: as well, because we don't maybe fully appreciate it at
Speaker 1: the moment how long this is gonna last and how
Speaker 1: many people it's going to touch. Yeah, listen, I mean,
Speaker 1: respect and congratulations and all of that are are really
Speaker 1: good for for everybody. But yeah, I mean I guess
Speaker 1: they just don't don't assume that there's something, you know,
Speaker 1: some mental issue that had or physical thing that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's invisible. But yes, I think, yes, we make sure
Speaker 1: you look because this is one again that they don't
Speaker 1: want to come back and admit. So if you do
Speaker 1: notice something and try to do if you can to
Speaker 1: convince them to seek some help or for that. But
Speaker 1: I do talk to a lot of veterans, and they
Speaker 1: love it when people have raised the flags and say
Speaker 1: thank you for serving our country and giving them the
Speaker 1: ability to get on the plane before the rest and
Speaker 1: all that. But some also say, well, you know what,
Speaker 1: just let us kind of just just kind of go
Speaker 1: into this different world, civilian world we're now back at.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure we I couldn't even tell
Speaker 1: you the percentage who love that and those who don't
Speaker 1: really want that. What they really want is they want
Speaker 1: to get the job. They want a job, you know,
Speaker 1: they want to have their life better, not just somebody
Speaker 1: shouting out and say, you know you served, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. But I'm not going to do anything more
Speaker 1: than that. You know, I'm not going to do anything
Speaker 1: else to help you. Uh. The big thing is not
Speaker 1: just to say or to show how much you love them.
Speaker 1: It's really more about doing something behind the curtain, to
Speaker 1: do something for them. Amen perfectly said. I've said that
Speaker 1: often for people who do want to help but don't
Speaker 1: know how. Um. First of all, I would urge you
Speaker 1: to look into the Bob Wooder Foundation because you do
Speaker 1: some of the work for people. You do a lot
Speaker 1: of investigating and vetting and looking at the organizations. They
Speaker 1: are not scams because I know those exist out there,
Speaker 1: the ones that are doing specific good work and have
Speaker 1: a track record of doing So, what have you found
Speaker 1: in terms of the climate, Because so many people are
Speaker 1: stretched and challenged by the times, and and sometimes raising
Speaker 1: funds for cause, no matter how worthy, can be really
Speaker 1: difficult at this time, are there still enough people who
Speaker 1: want to help and what what should they do to
Speaker 1: take those steps to back up what they're saying with
Speaker 1: actual deeds. Yeah, I mean people in your neighborhood. You
Speaker 1: probably you know the ones that you know the most.
Speaker 1: You'll know what to do for them if they if
Speaker 1: they seek some kind of help for it. But if
Speaker 1: you want to do some help that's not in your
Speaker 1: in your backyard, you need to find the organizations, whether
Speaker 1: it's within the government or with its one inn in
Speaker 1: a private entity that's doing something. Then then it's a
Speaker 1: little bit more complicated, which is really what we did.
Speaker 1: We that's what we created. We are raising money as
Speaker 1: much as we can, and then we have an amazing
Speaker 1: team that will identify and locate the groups and the
Speaker 1: and the and the the abilities to help people the
Speaker 1: most efficient way, you know, almost like the most you
Speaker 1: will get out of your dollar percentage wise, everything you're
Speaker 1: gonna give, essentially, we'll go to the organizations that are
Speaker 1: the best. So some somebody really just asked us to
Speaker 1: do that for them, you know, the NFL for example.
Speaker 1: You know they've had so many people, so many organizations
Speaker 1: asking them for donations to help. Um there's a point
Speaker 1: where they just kind of said, you know, this is
Speaker 1: a world that we don't really understand the best place
Speaker 1: to put them, So they came to us as they're
Speaker 1: ones that would be uh in charge of finding where
Speaker 1: that money should go. So people donate to the NFL
Speaker 1: so they know that it's now going with a professional
Speaker 1: team that will find a good place. That's incredibly flattering.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a test of it to the work
Speaker 1: you've done to the NFL. Would would trust you with
Speaker 1: that and say help us help people? Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean other other governments have done the same, other countries
Speaker 1: that want to donate. I mean Qatar, who's got the
Speaker 1: largest US base, uh in all of the Middle East,
Speaker 1: you know, in the country of Qatar, and they want
Speaker 1: to do a lot for the veterans, and they wanted
Speaker 1: to donate you know, millions of dollars and they just
Speaker 1: came straight to us to do that. So we've got
Speaker 1: people that want we have confidence from other people to
Speaker 1: do it. But that's really what people want to do.
Speaker 1: They want to make sure that there that their desire
Speaker 1: has met, that their money is going to the right place.
Speaker 1: But there really are accomplishing something. And that's why we
Speaker 1: have these people to do it. But I have to say,
Speaker 1: my wife, my wife, and I uh make sure that
Speaker 1: people know that we do not make that decision at all.
Speaker 1: This money goes you know, we have we are the angels,
Speaker 1: and then we got the devils, who are the ones
Speaker 1: that say, am sorry, we can't fund that one, you know,
Speaker 1: so we have applications in if you want some money,
Speaker 1: then uh, some donations come to us. Put all this
Speaker 1: information together and apply for it. And those that don't
Speaker 1: get it, some of them are friends of ours that
Speaker 1: we met and they ask, okay, I can't you guys
Speaker 1: approve us? No, we are the angels. True, but Lee
Speaker 1: and I we do not make any of these decisions.
Speaker 1: That don't blame us for well. The foundation is certainly
Speaker 1: um an outgrowth of your experience as the foul that
Speaker 1: one instant in Iraq and and put your life on
Speaker 1: a course you never would have imagined. So much is
Speaker 1: focused on, rightfully, so what is lost? What is lost
Speaker 1: in war as a nation? What is lost among individuals?
Speaker 1: Obviously a loss can be a part of a limb.
Speaker 1: It can be um, mental, emotional. What was gained for
Speaker 1: you other than this the foundation of the awareness that
Speaker 1: hears how to help? What? What did what came out
Speaker 1: of that, that moment and the aftermath that changed you
Speaker 1: as a person, That you can say in the in
Speaker 1: the gain lost column, that was something that came out
Speaker 1: of this for me that I never would have expected.
Speaker 1: You know, I think I've there's several things is you know,
Speaker 1: one is I don't think I had the same fear
Speaker 1: of death that I did before. In some ways, I
Speaker 1: kind of already lived through it. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: remember anything at all from when I was out, but
Speaker 1: I did when I woke up. My my brother Jimmy
Speaker 1: came into the rooms, one of the first guys that
Speaker 1: I saw when I when I woke up, and he
Speaker 1: asked me, Wow, it's great to have you back. I
Speaker 1: wasn't and I said, well, all I really remember was,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was hit, my body was floating
Speaker 1: below me, and I looked down and saw it while
Speaker 1: I was unconscious. What I do remember right now it
Speaker 1: was kind of like whiteness, and there was no pain.
Speaker 1: And some ways I said to him, I said, Jimmy,
Speaker 1: I uh, some ways I I would be okay just
Speaker 1: going back where I was, you know, in some ways
Speaker 1: it was not as complicated as it is now. Now.
Speaker 1: That's not like a near death experience, but it's certainly
Speaker 1: one that I realized that it's not really that bad,
Speaker 1: so that that is kind of a positive thing to
Speaker 1: it all. The second one is kind of an interesting
Speaker 1: story that my little my little daughter Norah. I've got
Speaker 1: twin adorable little girls. And they were five years old
Speaker 1: when I was hit and about you know, six months
Speaker 1: after I came back, still had all of these wounds
Speaker 1: all over my body, and I couldn't remember a lot
Speaker 1: of things. Um. And she, my daughter asked me. She asked.
Speaker 1: She was talking to my wife Lee, and she says, Mom,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, dad's head seems to have that because
Speaker 1: they cut off part of my skull. You've got that
Speaker 1: dented head and Mom, don't worry. That's They're gonna put
Speaker 1: that skull back on. It'll be fun. And Mom, he's
Speaker 1: got all of these scars all over his back. Don't worry, sweet,
Speaker 1: that I'll get better. And my dad's got all these
Speaker 1: little pieces of metal and rocks, you know, implanted in
Speaker 1: the left part of his jaw. She says, don't worry.
Speaker 1: Those popping out one at a time. That's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: And she said, you know, mom, noll the I think
Speaker 1: my dad loves me even more than he did before. Now,
Speaker 1: whether that was an expression of it, um, maybe it
Speaker 1: indicated something. I felt so lucky to be alive, so
Speaker 1: that was a positive part. I think. I think maybe
Speaker 1: in some ways maybe I did change personality wise, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I I'm sure there's always with depression. There's
Speaker 1: all sorts of snaps that happened. This is not a
Speaker 1: Combaya story, but there are some things that maybe are
Speaker 1: better about me. I also because I got dramatic brain injury,
Speaker 1: nor logical that I actually passed the test for the
Speaker 1: qualification to go ahead and get my my vaccine shot
Speaker 1: the other day. So you know, I was able to
Speaker 1: get on even though I'm not even I'm only fifty
Speaker 1: nine and a half, so I didn't even pass. Otherwise,
Speaker 1: there you go, I could use that for not to
Speaker 1: give my vaccine. Well, it's certainly a deepened sense of gratitude,
Speaker 1: whether that's loving more fully or just appreciating every breath
Speaker 1: more deeply. UH is a positive offshoot. It's not a
Speaker 1: Combayot story for so many there's so many serious day
Speaker 1: to day challenges, but deepening a sense of gratitude is
Speaker 1: something that come out of it. They can have a
Speaker 1: positive effect on people's lives and in many many ways.
Speaker 1: You continue to do very important reporting. Always bring great
Speaker 1: humanity to these causes, and I say causes because these
Speaker 1: are very very big stories, usually involving people that are
Speaker 1: being abused or taking advantage over or slaughtered and pretty
Speaker 1: much appreciate the work he continued to do in that area. Chris,
Speaker 1: you know, I listen, I've never been so satisfied with
Speaker 1: what we've done with the foundation that we've got. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give up. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to surrender, as Churchill once said, and that's for sure,
Speaker 1: this is gonna go on and listen to the perfect world,
Speaker 1: we won't need the foundation because everything is gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: But the scary thing is, I think we we still
Speaker 1: have more battles in the future or whatever they may be,
Speaker 1: whether it's a birth, asymmetrical wars and bombs and who knows,
Speaker 1: maybe even some kind of you know, COVID number two.
Speaker 1: But we're gonna always have something where people in our
Speaker 1: country are going to serve intensely and there will be
Speaker 1: an impact on them that may be negative. So I
Speaker 1: think the country always wants to make sure that that
Speaker 1: we will help those because this is not a you know,
Speaker 1: a draft war. You know, you're not forced to participate
Speaker 1: in the military. It's your decision to do it. And
Speaker 1: it means that we don't be forced to do it.
Speaker 1: Ourselves are really now at our age. That's our our
Speaker 1: children and grandchildren do don't have to go to the
Speaker 1: war if the war set up system continues where it's
Speaker 1: all voluntary war military. So we just always want to
Speaker 1: do something people that serve. It's interesting right now those
Speaker 1: that are on the front lines of the new kind
Speaker 1: of war, the invisible war of of of COVID, you know,
Speaker 1: those are the ones that are now serving our war,
Speaker 1: you know, and we are people people in America, in America,
Speaker 1: I think we've now become that way. We want to
Speaker 1: help those that are doing so much for those that
Speaker 1: we need, that we want that we love that are
Speaker 1: suffering through something. In this case, those that are in
Speaker 1: the hospitals and they are taking the risk, you know,
Speaker 1: they're the ones that hitting are being hit by an
Speaker 1: invisible coronavirus, which is the new kind of I E. D.
Speaker 1: So I just want everybody know that there's something that
Speaker 1: everybody can do for those that have served. It was
Speaker 1: much more intensely for the military from the sands of
Speaker 1: our Afghanistan, and now it's continues to do that for
Speaker 1: the long long term damage that it's caused. But now
Speaker 1: the as new ones, and so it's never there's nothing.
Speaker 1: There's no reason we will ever give up because we're
Speaker 1: kind of a connection between what people want to do
Speaker 1: something and those that need something, and that there's nothing
Speaker 1: that feels better than that. And wonderfully put, I think
Speaker 1: America is a grateful nation, bighearted nation. But making sure
Speaker 1: that the awareness and the attention span match that, I
Speaker 1: think it's important because you're right, there will not be
Speaker 1: an end to conflicts or problems, and that's another motivation.
Speaker 1: I think it's a motivation for Americans to do something
Speaker 1: for them because there's a point where this system may
Speaker 1: not continue anymore if it looks like we're not going
Speaker 1: to really treat them with dignity. Those that do volunteer
Speaker 1: to take the risks to whether it's in the hospital,
Speaker 1: where it's in the stands of the war. You know,
Speaker 1: if we if that doesn't happen, if we just stop
Speaker 1: supporting those that are still needs after serving, then maybe
Speaker 1: the next system will be a draft again. You know,
Speaker 1: then we will people are not gonna want to volunteer,
Speaker 1: and therefore we're gonna have to make your grandchild do
Speaker 1: it instead, you know, even though he doesn't want to
Speaker 1: it doesn't have the ability to do so. So I
Speaker 1: think there's a there's a motivation to continue to do
Speaker 1: something for the for the military if you can. I
Speaker 1: love hearing that your foundation will never give up or surrender.
Speaker 1: I appreciate the UH. Grateful for your time, for your example,
Speaker 1: if your expertise, and then and for sharing your story
Speaker 1: and what others can do to help. Bob, thanks so much.
Speaker 1: What's great to see christ And maybe we'll be out
Speaker 1: there and UH side by side, you know, to do
Speaker 1: some more reporting about that's it's like you and I
Speaker 1: did a few years ago. Keep an eye out. The
Speaker 1: Warrior Games for Adaptive sports athletes, sponsored by the Department
Speaker 1: of Defense, return in September at Disney's Wild World of
Speaker 1: Sports in Orlando. Our hope is that the episodes with
Speaker 1: Bob and Kyante's story have deepened your understanding. Maybe who
Speaker 1: as inspired by their examples as I am, and their
Speaker 1: time of greatest danger and difficulty. Both of them put
Speaker 1: others first and with the help of others, became stronger,
Speaker 1: stayed active, kept moving forward, not just surviving, but thriving
Speaker 1: for more. I really recommend the book co written by
Speaker 1: Bob and his talented wife Lee in an instant a
Speaker 1: family's journey of love and healing. Also, if I should
Speaker 1: learn more about the Bob Woodrow Foundation. They do tremendous work.
Speaker 1: Thanks as always of my co executive producer Jennifer Dempster,
Speaker 1: producer Jason whiteckeld, and thanks to you for listening in.
Speaker 1: Want you to subscribe, rate and review the podcast, and
Speaker 1: lead any input or comments on the Instagram at Chris Fowler.
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon.