WEBVTT - Coronavirus Vaccine Distribution and Potential Mutations 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.240 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.000 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. You can 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.720 download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.000 pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sure to watch 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.320 us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. You're 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.120 listening to Bloomberg Business Week Carol Masser along with Bloomberg 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.080 Quick Takes, Tim Stanovic and a lot of headlines too, 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:35.479 and I just breaking them down for some of our audiences. 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:39.120 But what's interesting is Bloomberg does a COVID resilience ranking. 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:40.519 It's a measure of the best places to be in 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.599 the COVID nineteen era, and the US ranking drops deeply 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:46.559 as we've seen the death toll surge, with one American 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:48.760 dying from the virus every forty one seconds over the 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.000 past month. Yeah, it's been it's been shocking to see 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:52.680 the way that other countries have handled it. So much 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:54.280 better than we have. But that at this point is 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:56.160 like an old story, except for the fact that it 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.320 keeps getting worse here in the US by many metrics, right, exactly, 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.920 all right, So let's get into it. Global nineteen uh 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.880 COVID nineteen cases right now passing seventy eight million. So 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.400 let's bring in Dr Sophia Thomas, president of the American 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:13.479 Association of Nurse Practitioners, a doctor of nursing practice herself, 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.920 um and she joins us on the phone in Louisiana 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.000 along with Bloomberg News Health Team editor John Lowerman. He's 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.440 on the phone from Boston. So John, I do want 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.080 to start with you because Tim and I have been 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.240 talking a little bit about this mutation of the virus. 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.440 What do we need to know and what do we 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:31.720 need to know about the COVID nineteen vaccine in our 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.440 protection against this mutation? Well, I would say at this 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.360 point we need to know almost everything, because there's a 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.360 lot of information out there. There's been some reports of 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.360 the mutations that are in this virus in this particular 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:51.480 strain um. The UK government has been saying that they 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:56.760 believe this strain spreads more easily. Monster slowe who is 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.760 the UM scientific director of Opera and more Speeds and 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.320 the press conference today that he hasn't seen any hard 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.400 evidence of that. So I think, you know, the jury 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.960 is still out on what you know exactly what this 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:15.360 UM strain is, UM, what it does, and whether it 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.160 has any impact on the vaccines. Now the e m A, 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:24.600 the European Medicine Agent Medicines Agency that just approved fiser 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.560 and biosos vaccine today so that they did not believe 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:32.240 it would have an impact on the effectiveness of that vaccine. 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.080 So I think, you know, more work is going to 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.240 be needed to be done on this, but we really 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.000 don't have any solid concrete answers there. When will we 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.400 get those solid concrete answers? I mean, do they have 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.240 to actually do a clinical trial with this new strain 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.360 in order cylical trial is what's needed? I think you 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.640 you know, so the way that the vaccines work just 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.680 in general, you know, UM, just to kind of recap, 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.959 is they raise these antibodies. The antibodies are called neutralizing 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.520 aut advice. They show the immune system of protein and 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:09.200 that sparks the development of these antibodies, and so you 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.400 need to know, UM, you can probably tell in the 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:17.120 test tube. But whether or not these antibodies are the 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.200 same antibodies that the body makes in response to the vaccine, 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.920 are going to neutralize this mute strain and then of 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.080 course the other issues. You know, you'll see it in 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:32.480 the activity uh of the of the vaccine going forward. 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.240 But um yeah, I don't think another clinical trial as 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:38.240 in order. And right now, all right, I want to 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.280 bring in Dr Sophia Thomas. So Dr Thomas, nice to 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.480 have you along with John here. So John really laying 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.200 out kind of what we need to understand about this 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:51.560 mutation and how the vaccine will protect us against it. 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.600 Tell us about your observations with this news and what 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.360 you're thinking about, especially when it comes to other nurse 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:02.840 practitioners and those folks that you are working with. Well, 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.840 you know, since COVID nineteen has started, really the news 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:10.000 has changed every day, right, We've had um uh new news. 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.600 Things are trending. We learn new things literally every day, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.200 and that's why all the scientists, and my hat goes 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.560 off to all the scientists who are really monitoring this closely. 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.679 You know, as as this continues to develop, we'll see. 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:25.640 But I think for the most part, those of us 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.279 on the front lines of health care will continue to 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.480 do what we do every day, masking up UM, using 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.520 our PPE, social distancing, and recommending that for our patients 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.440 and and the general public. You know, this virus is 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.800 transmitted from person to person, There's no question about that. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.760 And the one thing that we can do to really 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.080 help prevent the spread is for all of us to 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.000 do our part. Really be good neighbors and neighbors and 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.359 uh use the protective equipment, wash our hands, social distance 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.120 where those masks UM even just down to the grocery 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.480 store and you know, you may be fine, you may 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.800 be carrying that the virus and not even realize it. 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.800 But you know, people have the risk of transmitting it 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.920 to other people. And we know now that it's not 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.599 just impacting UM the most elderly and the most sickly, 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.960 although UM it's think those are the significant numbers of 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.039 people who are impacted, but we're having perfectly healthy people 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.600 that are having suffering from complications from COVID that were 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.400 you know, unforeseen. So every day with this virus, we're 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:29.320 learning more. We're learning more about the virus UM, the mutations, 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:34.440 as well as all the downstream complications that can arise 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.720 after having this, so Dr Thomas to that end. And 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.240 when it comes to the vaccine, what are you advising 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.520 members of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners and when 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.480 do you think they will be completely vaccinated because they 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.240 are among those who are on the front lines. Well, 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.839 we actually this week already have our our colleagues that 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.800 are working in hospital systems being vaccinated and I'm so 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.880 proud to see all their posts and social media. You know, 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.760 we want to get the word out to the general 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.800 public that we in healthcare aren't ready willing and able 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.039 and happy to take this vaccine. And when your number 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.680 comes up, UM, it's certainly we encourage everybody to get 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.039 vaccinated as soon as possible UM, and we support the 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:20.680 CDC recommendations regarding the prioritization of the at risk population UM, 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.080 you know, including the frontline health workers and seniors and 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.720 those with colude morbid conditions. And we really look forward 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.720 to UM not only working with the general same local 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.480 authorities to ensure the most effective and efficient vaccination process 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.680 possible to protect the health of patients nationwide, but we 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.880 look forward to the day when when all Americans can 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.960 say they've been vaccinated and they're protected. Um, you know, 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:44.960 you know, John, I want to go back to you 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.719 or kick it off with you here, Uh for this block. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.480 You've got a story on the Bloomberg about vaccines. Don't 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.240 mean we'll see the last of COVID. You've been talking 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:57.120 to experts. Um, this disease is going to be with us, 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.600 what for a for a really long time, maybe forever. Well, 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.960 that's hard to say. I think the point is the 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.280 vaccines that we have that are coming online for COVID 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:14.080 right now, they look actually very good. Um and uh, 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:20.480 I think that it's it's um as we've heard. Uh. 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.800 Medical people want to take these vaccines and they want 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.600 to protect themselves. So there's nothing wrong with the vaccine. 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.880 The issue is that mass vaccination programs often take a 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.320 long time, they aren't always completely successful. And as a 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.400 matter of fact, we know that the only one of 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:40.440 only one disease that's really been eradicated as a result 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.000 of vaccine in that small pox. But people have been 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.920 trying to eliminate um diseases like pollio for decades and 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.400 it's just very difficult to do. It's very difficult to 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:51.840 get everybody to take a vaccine. At the same time, 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.800 and when you don't have the entire population vaccinated, you 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.480 have poc to people who are unvaccinated, and then they 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.320 tend to affect one and affect one another, and then 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.600 other people who who for whatever reason don't have the 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.520 vaccine or declined to take the vaccine, those people become 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.360 infected as well. And then so you you have this 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.960 continual reservoir that can last and last. And that's basically 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:20.400 the idea. So it's very difficult, despite the despite the 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.720 existence of effective vaccines, to actually eliminate or eradicated disease. 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:27.560 So what does that mean for the future? John? Does 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.080 it mean that we're going to have COVID hotspots like 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:34.080 we do with other diseases that we've tried to eradicate, 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.200 or does it mean that it will sort of always 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:40.199 be lurking there. I think there's a good possibility or 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.199 at least this is what my source has told me, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.920 that it won't be eradicated. It's an extremely contagious disease. 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.480 Um diseases that have been eradicated, or the loan disease 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.600 that's been eradicated. Small pox is not actually all that contagious. 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.079 But you know, as we've talked about a little bit 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.960 um this new strain, Uh, they sort of more transmissible, 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:06.720 but COVID is known to you know, reach people, um 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.360 who are working apart from each other in the packing plans. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:15.079 That's terrifying. It's a very cannas to zo. Drs Thomas. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:16.679 I want to bring you back in because I know 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.760 something that you've been focusing certainly is about some of 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.800 the inequities about about there. You know, we are concerned 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:27.200 that everybody gets access to the vaccine. Ultimately, what are 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:32.520 your thoughts on that. Well, you know, ultimately that that's 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.160 the goal and that's the ideal but ideal, but as 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.280 as John just said, you know, getting everybody to take 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.960 that vaccine is going to be quite difficult. So so 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.040 COVID will probably be with us for a long time. 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.840 And you know, you know, I'm proud to be a 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.280 nurse part of one of the most trusted professions and 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.040 and I you know, calm a nursing colleagues to encourage 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.560 patients as much as possible to take it. UM. We 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.480 also don't know how long um we're going to have 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.640 that immunity from the scene, and we might be looking 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.160 at a situation where we get the vaccine annually. UM, 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.360 it might be part of our annual flu vaccine. We 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.480 just don't know yet. There's a lot of there are 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.520 a lot of unknown So Dr Thomas, what is what 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.080 is the way that you communicate to patients and you 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.800 tell your nurse practitioners to communicate to patients that this 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:21.640 is a vaccine that there need to get, especially when 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:23.880 there is so much skepticism out there. And just got 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:28.520 about forty seconds here, absolutely that you know, the message 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.400 to patients is we have a vaccine that's available that 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:36.720 can help prevent you from getting COVID nineteen, hopefully prevent 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.040 you from getting it and spreading it to another person. 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.000 And then the message is always at the end of 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.880 the day, where a masked social distance practice proper infection 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.960 control measures right, right. We know over and over everyone 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.559 says that that's what works. UM, Thank you so much. 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.440 Dr Sophia Thomas, President of the American Association of Nurse 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.760 Practitioners with us on the phone from Louisiana. John Larriman, 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.560 healthy manager at Bloomberg News on the phone from Boston. 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.000 You can check met Lowerman John on Twitter and also 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.480 of course at Bloomberg dot comment on the Bloomberg This 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.679 is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:11.760 I gotta say this is our world in a headline, 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:13.640 It's been a great year for stocks and a bear 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.400 market for humans. Investors ignoring the pain of the pandemic 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.480 and betting on a future where well, we'll just let 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:22.720 maybe in the future will come back as stocks and 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.200 not humans. I don't know, I'll let I'll let the 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.480 next to explain it all. Michael Reagan is senior editor 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.200 and lead blogger of Bloomberg Markets Live Blog. He's with 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.600 us from New Jersey. Also Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.720 Weber on the Access Line in Brooklyn. It is that headline, 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:41.240 Joel just sums up our year so perfectly. Yeah, And 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:42.840 it's almost like you don't need to read the story, 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:44.560 but you should because it just sits it all in 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.679 one place for you. Um and and coming back as 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.920 a stock sounds sounds kind of terribul but maybe not maybe. 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.240 Uh you know, uh. This is like one of the 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.080 great joys of my job is being able to like 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.920 just reach out to somebody like Mike Reagan and be like, um, 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.160 I feel like we need to do some business together 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.959 and he comes back with something like this, which started 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.320 with some thoughts about big numbers, um, and some of 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.560 them are are kind of humbling. So so Mike, walk 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:16.880 us through how you arrived at the story. Yeah. So, 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.040 you know, I feel like the whole year, we've all 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.640 been sort of really had this fixation on these statistics 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.319 that have just been crossing in the headlines every day, 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:29.400 just eye popping numbers that we never thought we'd ever 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.200 seen in our life times, whether it be you know, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.080 the millions of jobs lost, then we cover you know, 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.720 three hundred thousands and counting deaths from the fires. Just 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.160 a lot of people talk about it as the year 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.559 that where all charts were broken, because if you look 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.800 at so many different statistics, is just so off the 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.360 map that you can't even figure out what's going on 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.680 in other years. But to me, it's just to spend 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.560 this dichotomy all year that it's just I think that's 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.120 surprising and um, it's of alarming to a lot of 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:05.160 people just how well the markets done in the face 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:09.040 of just such heartbreaking, um human suffering. You know, not 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.640 only the the thickness and the death, but just so 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.280 many people still out of work. We're still down about 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.559 ten million jobs from where we were before the pandemic, 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.120 something like twenty seven million people in the country that 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.000 don't have enough to eat, and yet the market is 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.920 acting like it's, you know, the best of times, or 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.240 at least expecting the best of times. So, you know, 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.040 we cover the markets every day, sort of every twist 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.680 and turn of the tap on any given day, it 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.640 just felt like a good time to step back and say, Wow, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.440 what just happened this year? What? What? What is the 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.520 deal with this sort of this disparity between the heartbreaking 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.960 economic and human suffering statistics and these stock market statistics 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.400 that are just off the charts. Do it, um so 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.280 as an attempt to sort of reconcile those two and 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.800 try to just take a step back, take a breath, 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.480 and write out what a bizarre year was from that perspective. 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.080 So here we are at almost at the end of 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.319 the year, with a little bit of the benefit of hindsight. 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.839 What has allowed the market to be so disconnected from 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.839 main street? Yeah, I think there's a couple of things, 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.760 um From one, obviously, the Fed keeping interest rates as 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.320 low as they did and sort of innoculating the quipate 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.560 credit market and buying up a lot of treasuries every month. 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.560 It's kind of almost you know, forced this risk seeking 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.880 behavior in financial markets. Um. At the same time, for 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.680 those of us who were lucky enough to keep our 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.680 jobs this year, you know, well, there was really no 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.080 option to spend that sort of discretionary money that you 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.480 would have spent on, say, taking a vacation somewhere, going 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.240 to a baseball game or a concert. So you know, 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.920 I think there's evidence that a lot of that savings 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.640 ended up getting puts work in the stock market. And 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.360 the rest I think Wall Street is looking at with 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.880 bug Eys just saving dreeks at amount and tad this 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.840 year and thinking, once the world is back to normal, 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.280 that there's just kind of this bottlenecks of demand, the 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.600 bottleneck of money and savings, that that should get trickle 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.920 fact maybe in gushing back into the economy once we're 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.120 all you know, able to go out and enjoy the 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.000 world again. But the only thing, you know, Mike, there's 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.240 a line in your story investors seem to be betting 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:22.960 on a permanent shift in the structure of work in 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.200 the economy. I do think we were just talking about 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.520 real estate, Tim and I you know that we're seeing 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:29.800 people buy up some distressed assets. I do think that 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:33.720 there are going to be structural changes, whether it's retail, 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.520 whether it's medicine, whether it's education, whether it's how we 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.320 use real estate. I do think there's gonna be things 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.840 that are lasting, and I think to some extent investors 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:45.160 are seeing past that and incorporating that in I I 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.160 agree with Carl and I think, you know, there was 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.200 a very interesting I'm actually recycled that. Uh, that's that 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:54.240 comestily about My colleagues are conduct earlier years talk to 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:58.400 love and since uh studies at the Stone expert creature 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.400 and he ran some numbers that showed that the companies 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.360 that are at least dependent on their human workforce, Uh, 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.200 this year just totally killed it in the stock market 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.200 did way better than companies that are very dependent on 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:16.320 human workforce. And I know it's the one only thing 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:17.800 to think about. I think it's the kind of a 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.800 de questive thing to think about. But obviously the stock 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.560 market forever has sort of rewarded companies that are able 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.120 to reduce labor costs, to cut those costs to the bone, 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:31.640 and that's that phenomenon that tendency to sort of you know, 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.800 always improve those margins, even if it's at the expense 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.440 of human workers. I think that tendency really, uh was 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.360 turbo charged this year because of the pandemic and because 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.600 of this sort of acceleration in technology trends and sort 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.200 of bringing forward of the demand that a lot of companies, 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.400 um we presumably would have had in the future to 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.520 sort of automate more of their workforce ort to you know, 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.120 sort of get ahead of the technology curve as a 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.320 margin margin boosting the element of their business. So, um, 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.120 you know, a really alarmic thing happened when we saw 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.240 the job mark the destimating the way it was, um, 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.520 you know, Mike. The the other thing that's worth mentioning 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.080 here is the something of an outlier to the robot trend. 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:20.560 Number two best performing stock in SMP, Etsy, I love that. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.679 So can you talk about that? And and if you 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:26.440 came back as a stock, would you be et C 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:31.440 or something? Now that there's anything wrong with being at 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:37.080 c Hlwebber interesting exception to the rule that pres little 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.760 the rally that the good time for all the people 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:46.280 meeting and potters and factors at home great source of 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.840 Christmas presents in my household just for the really no, 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.119 but it says a lot. I mean that just blows. 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:58.040 It's up three twenty nine almost three. Uh yeah, Actually 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.399 was it one of the CBS news programs Amendament, CBS 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.720 Sunday or somebody did showed a couple of people who 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:06.760 who've been on who just like kind of got onto 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.159 Etsy recently. And it's just you know, it's like a 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:13.879 mother and a daughter making candles. Uh. It's pretty amazing. Um, 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.120 how they just kind of find their way. Yeah. And um, look, 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.160 the investor and investors this year have loved the company's stock. 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.000 I guess the question is, you know, can it continue? Yeah? Well, 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:24.960 and there's people who find something and then like stick 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.960 with it. Um. Great, great story. Mike Reagan, as always 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.800 as Joel says, you know I need something interesting. Hey Mike, 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:32.840 what are you up to? Uh? And Mike always delivers. 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.919 Mike Reagan a senior editor and lead blog or at 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.720 Bloomberg Markets Live blog on the phone from New Jersey. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:42.320 Check them at it Reagan Anonymous on Twitter and also 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.240 at Bloomberg dot com. Joell Webber, of course, editor of 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.520 Bloomberg Business Week. And you can check out the new 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.880 issue of Bloomberg business Week magazine, which is all about 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.760 kind of how our work world has changed dramatically, the 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:55.080 urban Exodus. It's my favorite color cover that we've had. 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:59.800 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:01.720 You know, it's interesting. I was listening to David Western 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:03.879 earlier and he had on Nicholas Burns at the Harvard 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.000 Kennedy School who said that the recent cyber attack on 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.360 the US government and corporations and think tanks may turn 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.399 out to be the largest cyber attack on the US 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.400 up to this point. Yeah, it's pretty significant. So we're 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.040 kind of unpacking this, so let's get into it and 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.399 what you need to know with us right now. Is 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.000 Bloomberg News cybersecurity editor Andy Martin on the phone in 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.560 New Jersey, along with Neil Bridges, who cybersecurity advisor at 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.200 Root Access Protection consultant for tech training from I NY. 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.600 He is on the phone from Chicago, and Andy, I 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:36.399 want to start off with you briefly just kind of 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.720 set the stage. Where are we in terms of what 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.800 we know about this? Because I know a bunch of officials, 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.160 including Attorney General William Barr said that this was likely 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.120 carried out by Russia. Other administration officials have also said 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.520 the same. Yeah, I mean, I think it's still very 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.920 early day. I mean, this is a UM was a 0:19:55.040 --> 0:20:00.480 very clever and spifated attack that that targeted UM, a 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:05.080 popular software program that's used to manage it by by 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:09.440 government agencies and companies around the world. So UM basically, 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:14.240 whoever UH updated the software between March and June of 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:19.240 last year, UM UH may have gotten a kind of 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.479 a backdoor that these hackers installed in it that they 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:25.280 could then go back and and sort of use it 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.679 as a sort of staging round from attack. So UM. 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.880 This company, Solar Winds, who produced the software, said as 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.960 many as eighteen thousand customers may have gotten this malicious 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:42.240 back door. So what's happening now is UM customers of 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.080 Solar Winds are going into their networks. They're trying to 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.040 identify whether or not they have this malicious update. And 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.680 after that comes the hard part, which is trying to 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:57.800 figure out if these hackers actually entered their network. UM. 0:20:57.840 --> 0:20:59.680 You know, there's a lot of reasons that it's difficult, 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:03.040 but one is, you know, the way the software operations 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:04.960 as I understand it is. You know, they would have 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:10.040 UM administrative credentials when they're in these networks, and they're 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.320 hard to trap because they look like an authorized user. 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:17.160 So UM, so far it looks like it's the Russians. 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.760 But again it's right days William Barr said that um 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:25.960 UM and Mike Pompeius said that, but not the President China. 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:30.320 But it looks like it's the Russian It's so Neil. 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.040 I want to bring you you in here, cybersecurity advisor 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.960 at Root Access Protection. I'm wondering, giving your career, where 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.560 does what we know about this hack and what you've 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:40.440 seen thus far, where does it fall on the spectrum 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:44.000 of what you've seen. UM, Thanks to appreciate that and 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.080 thanks for having me on. I think that this definitely 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:47.840