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Speaker 1: It's sponsorship time. But you know what, it's really great

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Speaker 1: when you get a sponsor that you already use. And

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Speaker 1: guess what. Quint's is something that in the Todd household

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Speaker 1: we already go to. Why do we go to Quint's

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Speaker 1: Because it's a place you go where you can get

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Speaker 1: some really nice clothes without the really expensive prices. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things I've been going through is I've

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Speaker 1: transitioned from being mister cot and ty guy to wanting

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Speaker 1: a little more casual but to look nice doing it.

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Speaker 1: Is I've become mister quarter zip guy. Well guess what.

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Speaker 1: Guess he's got amazing amounts of quarter zips. It is Quints.

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Speaker 1: I have gotten quite a few already from there. The

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Speaker 1: stuff's really nice. They have Mongolian cashmere sweaters for fifty dollars.

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Speaker 1: I just know, hey, cashmere, that's pretty good. You don't

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Speaker 1: normally get that for fifty bucks or less. Italian wool

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Speaker 1: coats that look and feel like designer the stuff. I'll

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Speaker 1: be honest, right, you look at it online, you think, okay,

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Speaker 1: is this really as nice as it looks? Well, when

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Speaker 1: I got it, I was like, oh, this is real quality.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm going to end up making sure I

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Speaker 1: take it to my dry cleaner so I don't screw

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Speaker 1: it up when I clean it. But I've been quite impressed.

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Speaker 1: In Hey, it's holiday season. It is impossible to shop

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you you're gonna find something that is going

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Speaker 1: on your order and three hundred and sixty five day

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Speaker 1: sixty five day returns quints dot com slash chuck. Use

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Speaker 1: that code. Well, hello there, and Happy Christmas Eve. That's

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Speaker 1: when this episode is dropping. I am recording on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: est of us, right, so it's Grievance Day actually when

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Speaker 1: I'm actually recording this, but you'll be hearing it for

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Speaker 1: the informal start of the Christmas holiday season with Christmas Eve.

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Speaker 1: So I appreciate it. I'm Chuck Todd another episode of

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Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcast. If I hadn't said that, get that away,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. It's been I have had a blast

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Speaker 1: these last eight months. We got started, I believe on

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Speaker 1: April second was our first episode, and this has been

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Speaker 1: just such a joy. So I appreciate it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I've scratched itches that I've always wanted to scratch in

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Speaker 1: a semi public form, including all of the various sports

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Speaker 1: updates that I enjoyed doing. So let me give you

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Speaker 1: a rundown of this episode, a little bit of reaction

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Speaker 1: of some headlines over the last forty eight hours. I

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Speaker 1: want to get to a little bit on Epstein, a

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Speaker 1: little bit on the CBS Mets with sixty Minutes, but

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Speaker 1: a sort of larger view of sort of taking a

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Speaker 1: step back and what has changed in our politics and

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Speaker 1: what actually hasn't changed in the last year, and I

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Speaker 1: want to go through that a little bit. My interview

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Speaker 1: is with somebody who I just really enjoy talking with,

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Speaker 1: Mike Pesca. He is the just List former Slate. Many

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Speaker 1: of you are probably listeners. He is somebody that has

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Speaker 1: I really have appreciated how he's tried to attack news

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Speaker 1: of the day, current events. He has really tried to

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Speaker 1: attack these stories from the outside looking in, from a

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Speaker 1: more detached way, and we dig into the future of journalism,

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Speaker 1: we dig into what's going on at CBS, though we

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Speaker 1: our conversation happened before this specific incident was sixty minutes,

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Speaker 1: just to let you know, and then we spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time on the on what is this sort

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Speaker 1: of uncomfortable moment we're in in the gamification of everything, right,

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Speaker 1: particularly sports and the prediction markets, and where this is headed.

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Speaker 1: So in general, I think it's a great conversation. By

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Speaker 1: the way, if you don't subscribe to the Just List,

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Speaker 1: you should. It's a lot of fun. Even the free

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Speaker 1: version is a lot of fun. He's really good at

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Speaker 1: sort of finding those stories that you're not going to

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Speaker 1: get in the headline newsletters that you subscribe to from

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Speaker 1: a news site. Right, it's that next story that you're

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Speaker 1: like back in the old days for us old guys here,

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Speaker 1: it was when you actually read a full newspaper and

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Speaker 1: you let it. Oh, I never would have sought that

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Speaker 1: headline out, but I'm glad I read the story. That

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Speaker 1: is what I think Mike's true gift is when it

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Speaker 1: comes to informing informing folks on that. I will do

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Speaker 1: some questions, we will have more mail bag that you

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Speaker 1: guys have just a lot of fun and smart questions.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm going to do a little twist on

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Speaker 1: my little sports page here a little bit which is

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Speaker 1: frankly trying to help you have the conversation during the

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Speaker 1: holidays with the person that you don't want to talk

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Speaker 1: about current events with. But you figure, I got to

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Speaker 1: be a little smarter about sports, so you can have

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Speaker 1: fun little storylines where you can just ask a question,

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Speaker 1: let other people talk. But if it's a way to

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, how to change a conversation, how

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Speaker 1: to look more fluent in a sports conversation that maybe

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Speaker 1: you don't want to remember, we're going to be We're

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Speaker 1: gonna have some tremendous I mean, there's nothing I love

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Speaker 1: more than these next two weeks because on a random

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Speaker 1: Tuesday afternoon, you flip on ESPN and there's a bowl game.

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Speaker 1: So this is the part. As much as these meaningless

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Speaker 1: bowl games are becoming more meaningless, all the time when

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Speaker 1: you're at home with relatives and you need that distraction

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Speaker 1: of noise in your gatherings. There's nothing like throwing a

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Speaker 1: football game on. So even these bad Netflix games that

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Speaker 1: the NFL for Netflix, right, they'd like to swap those

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Speaker 1: out or get a refund for these, right since they

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Speaker 1: barely had any playoff teams eventually in their matchups. But

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Speaker 1: so that's how I will orchestrate that sports update. But

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Speaker 1: let me just kick off a little bit with this

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Speaker 1: mess that is sixty Minutesry Weiss and the controversy around it.

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Speaker 1: For me, this is a welcome to welcome to the

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Speaker 1: NFL moment for Barry Weiss. Look, she is not the

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Speaker 1: first news executive brought in to run a television network

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Speaker 1: who has no clue how television works. And I say

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Speaker 1: this not trying to take a shot at her being snarky,

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Speaker 1: but this is her inexperience as a newsleader sort of

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Speaker 1: to me shown through here from what we know, first

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Speaker 1: of all, not understanding sort of the intricacies of what

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Speaker 1: it takes to put together a television piece. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was fascinating. There was a little bit of new snobbery,

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Speaker 1: which is something that I used to have until I

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Speaker 1: got into the TV business. But one of her critiques

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Speaker 1: of the piece was that all of this was reported

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times, as if if the New

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Speaker 1: York Times reported it, you shouldn't bother sharing it with

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world. Maybe the whole point of

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Speaker 1: why she started the free press, right, the whole point

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Speaker 1: of you know, it's sort of we're trying to broaden

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Speaker 1: the aperture of news consumption in a news consumption in America, right,

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Speaker 1: not narrow it down. So, yes, New York Times readers

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Speaker 1: might have known this story, what about everybody else? No

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Speaker 1: offense to New York Times readers. I'm one of them.

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Speaker 1: I'm a subscriber. But it's a very narrow set of Americans.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's an influential set of Americans. The New

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Speaker 1: York Times has influence, and there is a reminder that

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Speaker 1: when The New York Times reports something, eventually other news

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Speaker 1: organizations are going to do with their own version of

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Speaker 1: the story and making a putting a vision. Putting a

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Speaker 1: story that appeared in the New York Times, but putting

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Speaker 1: giving visual elements to it can be sometimes more powerful

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Speaker 1: than the original story itself, so that critique really struck

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Speaker 1: me as her not understanding what her mission actually is

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Speaker 1: at a news division. Right, is you there to broadly

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Speaker 1: inform everybody that is there, or are you there to

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Speaker 1: make an assumption that people already know certain things? And

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Speaker 1: that to me is a bit of a yellow flag

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Speaker 1: on her news instincts. Now, she may have just said

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Speaker 1: that as part of an email that she knew to

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Speaker 1: go public. Obviously, what doesn't look good for her on

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Speaker 1: this is the fact that she missed four screenings of

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Speaker 1: this piece and then weighed in very late, basically less

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Speaker 1: than forty eight hours than when the piece was going

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Speaker 1: to air. So it rings of Oh, she got a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of complaints from people inside the administration, and

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Speaker 1: there were a few complaints that she thought ran pretty true,

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Speaker 1: like hey, they didn't have a voice in the piece,

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Speaker 1: or they didn't have this. And I think she's right

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Speaker 1: that it could use a voice. It certainly would improve

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Speaker 1: the piece. But when you come in that late in

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Speaker 1: the process, it certainly looks like you've let outsiders manipulate

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Speaker 1: the process, whether or not that's true, and it's her

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Speaker 1: timing now, So I think a few things here. Let's

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Speaker 1: take her at face value. I don't think she wants

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Speaker 1: to be seen as a political pawn. Okay, so I

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Speaker 1: have some of you may have a very snarky view

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Speaker 1: of her that she just wants to be an apparatic.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that. I believe she thinks she can

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Speaker 1: do this better. What I do believe is she does

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Speaker 1: not understand how the television network works. She may very

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Speaker 1: well want to change how network television works and how

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Speaker 1: news gathering works. I think God bless her. Okay, I've

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Speaker 1: certainly had my share of inexperience. I dealt with my

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Speaker 1: share of inexperienced news executives. The ones that came in

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Speaker 1: and experienced, who wanted to who were good, actually spent

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Speaker 1: time trying to get to know parts of the news

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Speaker 1: division that they knew themselves they wanted to get rid of.

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Speaker 1: But you actually have to try to work and figure

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Speaker 1: out how they were. The bad news executives that I

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Speaker 1: dealt with, and I had quite a few of them,

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Speaker 1: I would say about half figured it out the right

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Speaker 1: way and half figured it out the wrong. About half

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Speaker 1: of them came in thinking they already knew how to

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Speaker 1: do this, and they were going to come and they

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Speaker 1: were there to break eggs, and they weren't going to

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Speaker 1: bother worrying about institutional norms, etc. But you're going to

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Speaker 1: get pushback, right, You're going to get resistance when you

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Speaker 1: have a lot of particularly at a broadcast news network

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Speaker 1: where there's a lot of really smart, talented people who

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Speaker 1: frankly probably would be more qualified to run the news division,

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Speaker 1: but they're on air personalities, and you know, they're not

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Speaker 1: just to be treated like actors in a sitcom. And

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Speaker 1: there's sort of two types of news executives I came across.

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Speaker 1: There was the news executive that assumed people that were

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Speaker 1: on air just read the reporting of other people's work,

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Speaker 1: and then there were those that actually respected the fact

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Speaker 1: that the people that could narrate a story could also

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Speaker 1: work a story behind the scenes as well. And so

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Speaker 1: this rings of somebody who just didn't fully understand how

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Speaker 1: the system worked. Now, this is where you can't you

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Speaker 1: have to you cannot discount the outside atmosphere that was

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Speaker 1: developing over the last month. You had President Trump twice

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Speaker 1: complain about sixty minutes pieces that he didn't like, and

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Speaker 1: he said the new owners haven't made a difference. It

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Speaker 1: was in some ways when he said nice things about

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Speaker 1: the Netflix bid to acquire Warner Brothers. It was almost

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Speaker 1: implied he didn't. He's mad at the Ellisons anyway, type

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Speaker 1: of mindset. So you have the fact that he's already

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Speaker 1: complained about two specific pieces, the Marjorie Taylor Green one

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Speaker 1: from a couple weeks ago being the most prominent. Then

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Speaker 1: you have the situation where the Ellisons are desperate to

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Speaker 1: see if they can get their hands on all of

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. They're trying to up their bid. They're trying

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Speaker 1: to make their access to government approval for their bid

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Speaker 1: as a sweetener to the Warner Brothers shareholders in order

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, look, Netflix is going to have a

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Speaker 1: harder time with this. Well, in order for that to happen,

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Speaker 1: they've got to appease this administration. So, whether this stuff

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Speaker 1: is having an impact or not, there is a perception

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Speaker 1: that it is going to and there's certainly that perception

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Speaker 1: could turn into questions that come from Democrats in Congress.

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Speaker 1: The point is, a smart leader tries to get ahead

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Speaker 1: of this somebody who and I have no doubt that

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Speaker 1: Barry Wis is a smart person here, but she just

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Speaker 1: how do you not you know, there's really only one

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Speaker 1: program that CBS News is going to be judged on

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Speaker 1: as far as anybody is concerned, right, critics of CBS News,

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Speaker 1: supporters of CBS News, critics of the President, supporters of

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Speaker 1: the President. It's sixty minutes, So how are you not

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Speaker 1: more involved in understanding every piece that they're working on.

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Speaker 1: So to weigh in as late as she did to

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Speaker 1: kill the peace just screams of outside interference and the

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Speaker 1: fact that she didn't see that coming. Either maybe she

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Speaker 1: did see that coming and she had no choice in

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Speaker 1: the matter, or she didn't see that coming and she

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Speaker 1: was a bit unprepared for the situation, which would tell

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Speaker 1: me that's a bit naive. Look, there's a few things

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Speaker 1: that you that I think are going to be fair

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Speaker 1: questions to raise. Can she run CBS News and the

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Speaker 1: free press at the same time? Is is she over?

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Speaker 1: I mean, CBS News is not a large operation compared

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Speaker 1: to NBC News, CBS News and a lot a large

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Speaker 1: operation compared to ABC News. It's it's a much smaller operation, So,

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Speaker 1: you know, so to me, not being able to be

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Speaker 1: on top of what they're producing. They don't have a

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Speaker 1: twenty four hour news channel. Yes, they have a CBS

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Speaker 1: Digital But her not being on top of this, you

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Speaker 1: have to ask, is she distracted by other stuff? Why

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Speaker 1: hasn't she figuring this out? Why hasn't Why didn't she

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Speaker 1: know what was happening inside these stories quickly and know

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Speaker 1: the rhythm of it. So I think it exposes Look,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a there's plenty that we don't know,

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Speaker 1: but she is. You know, she's now in a really

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Speaker 1: rough position. She's lost the trust of the journalists at

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Speaker 1: the single most important institution inside of CBS News in

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Speaker 1: that's sixty minutes. Anything they do now is going to

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Speaker 1: be seen through a political lens, no matter what that

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Speaker 1: they're appeasing one sided. They're in the worst of all

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Speaker 1: worlds now, And you know, I go back to to

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Speaker 1: this simple inexperience, and that's what this screams up. Look,

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Speaker 1: I could there's a there's another part of me that's

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Speaker 1: could easily be celebrating this moment. Once again, corporate owned,

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Speaker 1: corporate owned media is going to let you down. I

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Speaker 1: did not think this was the case, but this is

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Speaker 1: now the case in the Trump era, where these parent

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Speaker 1: companies do not care whether their journalistic institutions have credibility

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Speaker 1: with the whitest swath of Americans or not, that they

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Speaker 1: only want to cater to one side politically, and they

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Speaker 1: want to be a part of essentially influencing the country

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Speaker 1: rather than reflecting and reporting on the country. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a part of me that would love to sit

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Speaker 1: here and gloat and just say, look, this is yet

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Speaker 1: another reason you're going to have some skepticism of this

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Speaker 1: corporate media structure that we've seen. I will be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, I'm skeptical. I'm mostly impressed with Washington Post reporting.

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Speaker 1: I'm very skeptical of its editorial page. It feels like

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Speaker 1: it's been it is not an honest editorial page, that

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Speaker 1: it is essentially manipulated with a point of view that

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Speaker 1: the owner that somebody wants to appease in owner or

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Speaker 1: a piece somebody. You now are going to have skepticism

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Speaker 1: about what CBS News does. I already know that there.

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Speaker 1: We've already seen Disney do what it did with the

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Speaker 1: George Stephanopolis situation, calling into question their support of ABC News.

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Speaker 1: We've seen what Comcast did with MSNBC, trying to spin

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Speaker 1: it out and get rid of it and separating it

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Speaker 1: out from NBC. You can look at that through the

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Speaker 1: prism of their just looking to appease and playcate the

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Speaker 1: current administration. So we are in a situation where all

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Speaker 1: of these stories have added to the public's distrust. And

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Speaker 1: it's frustrating to me because I many people look at

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Speaker 1: me and still see me as a quote member of

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Speaker 1: so called mainstream media. I promise you I I tried

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Speaker 1: really hard. I spoke out when I thought it was necessary.

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Speaker 1: So I know that moment that Sharon I'll Foncie. You know,

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Speaker 1: you make that decision. It's not an easy decision because

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Speaker 1: you're never you know, her career is never going to

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Speaker 1: be the same at CBS. You know, we'll see does

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Speaker 1: she out last Barry Weiss or does Berry Weis's outlast

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Speaker 1: her on that front. I have no idea what her

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Speaker 1: contract situation is or anything like that, But ultimately, executives

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Speaker 1: don't like to be shown up by their employees, and

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Speaker 1: so eventually that's you know, but at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, you feel the need to stick up for

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Speaker 1: the journalists and the organization. And this is what makes

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Speaker 1: when you're a publicly traded company owning a journalist, journalistic institution.

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Speaker 1: You have a choice to make, right are you going

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Speaker 1: to stand by? Journalism is not meant to be popular.

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Speaker 1: I always say this, journalists are not meant to be

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Speaker 1: if you are doing this to be popular. And this

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Speaker 1: is why this whole, in this whole algorithmic driven nature

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Speaker 1: of our news consumption really bothers me because it it

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Speaker 1: it it's fuses popularity with news consumption, which is a

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Speaker 1: huge mistake for journalism. If you're doing your journalism based

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Speaker 1: on what you think is going to be popular, you're

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Speaker 1: not going to do good journalism because you're going to

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Speaker 1: be constantly worried about what an audience thinks, either an

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Speaker 1: audience of one, whether in the case of the White House,

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Speaker 1: or a larger audience in the case if you're a

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Speaker 1: partisan news channel MS NOW or Fox News, where you

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Speaker 1: don't want to quote alienate your viewers and alienate that

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Speaker 1: the audience that you have. I think this is a

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Speaker 1: huge concern with YouTube influences. I think it's a huge

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Speaker 1: concern with some substackers where you have essentially audience capture

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Speaker 1: on this front. So, if you're going to be in

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Speaker 1: the journalistic space and you want to be a journalist,

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Speaker 1: grow a thick skin and don't worry about being popular

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Speaker 1: or not. Over time and honest, straightforward, no bullshit talking

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Speaker 1: journalists is going is going to accumulate trust. Trust is

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Speaker 1: more important than popularity. That I promise you trust is

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Speaker 1: more important popular. So at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: that's what I think about. I'd rather I'd rather tell

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Speaker 1: you honest information that make you feel good when I

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Speaker 1: don't think what you want to hear to feel good

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Speaker 1: is actually accurate, you know, do I want to present

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Speaker 1: it in such a way where it's easy to consume,

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Speaker 1: where it isn't doesn't feel like your own personal points

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Speaker 1: of view are being attacked when you're hearing information that

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Speaker 1: runs counter to your beliefs. Yes, I think there are

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Speaker 1: better ways to present information. I think there are more

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Speaker 1: detached ways to present information. I think one of the

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Speaker 1: things that we collectively didn't do well and we let hey, look,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump can make anybody emotionally. You know, go Jesus,

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Speaker 1: you know that. But you got to do your best

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Speaker 1: sometimes to check yourself and try to detach yourself from

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Speaker 1: certain things. Right, if you really want to be a

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Speaker 1: referee like journalists, where you're just calling it like you

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Speaker 1: see it, pure in something and at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, that's what I'm doing here. So that's why

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Speaker 1: I'm saying it. In some ways, if you're in the

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Speaker 1: independent space, you know nothing like the self destruction of

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Speaker 1: more corporate owned media like CBS News as being helpful

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Speaker 1: to the cause. But I will tell you this, there's

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Speaker 1: a reason why independent media is growing the way it

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Speaker 1: is growing because I think you have corporations that don't

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Speaker 1: care about their news divisions anymore, and at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, they will use them if it helps

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Speaker 1: them for their business, and they will discard them the

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Speaker 1: second they become they interfere with their business. And look,

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Speaker 1: I get it. They have a fetishare responsibility their shareholders,

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00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: not to you. The American public ultimately independent own journalistic operations.

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Speaker 1: I do think have more more concern about the public

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Speaker 1: as a whole than any donor any subscriber, any shareholder.

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Speaker 1: And so in that sense, yesterday was just another bad

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Speaker 1: day for legacy media and another good day for the

364
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Speaker 1: rise of independent media. Having good life insurance is incredibly important.

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Speaker 1: my dad had one life insurance policy that we found

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Speaker 1: wasn't a lot, but it was important at the time,

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Speaker 1: Little did he know how important that would be in

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Speaker 1: think about, especially if you've got a growing family. Speaking

395
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: of the obsession of independent media, I would say the

396
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: Epstein files are certainly falling into that category. And look,

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00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 1: we're seeing, as I outlined to you a couple of

398
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 1: days ago, you know, none of us should be shocked

399
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: that the Justice Department front loaded all things Bill Clinton

400
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: on day one and are going to release whatever it

401
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: is that might be damning to Donald Trump much closer

402
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: to Christmas. Okay, but look, everybody's still pouring through it.

403
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: This is you know, I have my you know, I

404
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think this is going to somehow

405
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: change minds and what people believe regarding Epstein. But I

406
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: do think it What it has done to create division

407
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: inside the Trump coalition certainly makes it extraordinarily politically relevant.

408
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 1: But the fact that on Tuesday, on Festivus Day, the

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00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: airing of the Grievance Day. The Justice Department put out

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00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: the following statement after they released Another Earth, and I'm

411
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: just going to read it to you as a whole,

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00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: because the fact that the Department of Justice put out

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00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: this statement is both laughable and notable. Here it is

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00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: the Department of Justice is officially released nearly thirty thousand

415
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: more pages of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein. Some of

416
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: these documents contain untrue and cessationalist claims made against President

417
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Speaker 1: Trump that were submitted to the FBI right before the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty election. To be clear that the claims are

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00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: unfounded and false, and if they had a shred of credibility,

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00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: they certainly would have been weaponized against President Trump already. Nevertheless,

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00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: out of our commitment to the law and transparency, the

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00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: DOJ is releasing these documents with the legally required protections

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00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: for Epstein's victims. The year began with a huge opportunity

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Speaker 1: for Trump on this front. Excuse me, no, that was

425
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Speaker 1: one other line that I had written for myself. So

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Speaker 1: there you have it. The Department of Justice put out

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Speaker 1: a statement that sounded like it came from Trump's defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, Trump's former defense attorney, is it the Department

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Speaker 1: of Justice as a deputy attorney general. The point is

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of today. The release on Tuesday is

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00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: a reminder that there's a lot more damaging allegations and

432
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: inn window and so we say unresolved what would you

433
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: call them? Sort of unclear rationales for why Donald Trump

434
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: spent so much time with Jeffrey Epstein on his plane

435
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 1: and things like this, and the various accusations that came

436
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: with him. But it's interesting because think about this. In theory,

437
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: everything in that's been released should fall under Hey, some

438
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: of these documents contain untrue, in cessationalist claims. It made

439
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: against President Clinton, some of them made against Alan Dershowitz,

440
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: against Prince Right. Not every allegation made against any of

441
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: these folks, not all of them have been proven. But

442
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: it's notable that they only single out Donald Trump, which

443
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: tells you it was a statement for an audience of one.

444
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: But in some ways the note itself actually perhaps and

445
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: maybe this was by design, and maybe I'm naive on

446
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: this one, but actually the statement oddly says, Okay, today's

447
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: the day you're going to see a lot more Trump stuff,

448
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: and it's not going to be a great day for

449
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. But I do think this is one of

450
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: those stories that is more of an obsession with people

451
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: that are obsessed with this story, and it's hard to

452
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: imagine it's going to change the larger narrative, but clearly

453
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: it rattles Donald Trump. And that brings me to before

454
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: I get to the conversation with Mike Pesco, where we

455
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: sort of talk about a lot of things that I've

456
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: already mentioned now, future of journalism, independent media versus corporate

457
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: owned media, things like that, it sort of step back

458
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: a little bit and think about how the year began

459
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 1: and think about the opportunity, and it goes back to,

460
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, and why I think this has been such

461
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: a disastrous year politically for Donald Trump and the Republicans

462
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: because it began with such an opportunity. He came into

463
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: office within some ways, more of a mandate than he

464
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: had gotten in his first election in twenty sixteen. He

465
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: had extraordin there was an extraordinarily unpopular president he was following.

466
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 1: That's a big difference in twenty sixteen, right, Barack Obama

467
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: was a popular president personally in some way, probably you know,

468
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: he left with a pretty high job rating and a

469
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: pretty high personal rating. This case, right, he's following a

470
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: president with a pretty low job rating in a pretty

471
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: low personal rating, you know, the way Biden laughed really ugly.

472
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: Just a terrible last six months being pushed out of

473
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: his of office, just looking weak. And then of course

474
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: the return of Donald Trump. In some ways he his

475
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: fingerprints are as much on Trump's ability to get back

476
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: here than any other. So the point was Trump came

477
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: in with a huge opportunity, sort of like Ronald Reagan

478
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty. You know, people just found the Jimmy

479
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: Carter presidency unpopular. They were ready to turn the page.

480
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: So the opportunity for a honeymoon was big. And if

481
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: you look at sort of frankly, I think Joe Biden

482
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: had the same opportunity. And it is interesting to me

483
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump's second term and Joe Biden's one term

484
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: in the first year of their presidency pretty much much

485
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: are mirror images of each other. They both had sort

486
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: of one issue that sort of quickly severed whatever mild

487
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: hope voters, at least swing voters had that the presidency

488
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 1: could be somewhat successful right with Joe Biden, it was

489
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: the Afghanistan withdrawal, and for Donald Trump, it was Liberation Day.

490
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: And there's no doubt Liberation Day was sort of the

491
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: first hit and he never recovered from Liberation Day because

492
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: the economy didn't really the economy just kept getting sort

493
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: of uneven and those that were not doing well continued

494
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: to not doing well. Those that were doing well could

495
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: continue to do well thanks to the superinvestments of AI.

496
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: So the opportunity Trump had at the start of his

497
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: term versus he where he is now, I think you

498
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: should and at this point it becomes it becomes hard

499
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: to recover without sort of an outsized event to sort

500
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: of change the narrative. Right. And when I say outside event,

501
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: you know, to me, it's it's outside even the broad

502
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,479
Speaker 1: brushes of what you might be predicting, right, it's just

503
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: something you know, out of the ordinary. The way the

504
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: pandemic hit that it was not on anybody's BINGO card,

505
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: and it ended up exposing Trump's inability to be a

506
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: leader in a moment of crisis, and that, you know,

507
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: it's it is why I think he lost that first reelection.

508
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: So I think when you look at sort of the

509
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: big picture here, he really he had an opportunity. He

510
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: had an opportunity to solidify his imprint on the conservative movement.

511
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: He had a chance to sort of keep Democrats sort

512
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: of fraying. He could have done some things that could

513
00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: have potentially splintered the Democratic coalition. A good leader would

514
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: have actually looked for Democrats, you know, he had very

515
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: small majorities, and he'd have tried to find some Democratic

516
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: allies more as an attempt to try to splinter the party,

517
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: you sort of break people off to try to work

518
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: with him, And he chose not to do any of

519
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: that right. Instead, he came in a lot of retribution.

520
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: It's clear that that was much more front and center

521
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: for him. The pardons, the naming everything after himself, the bulldozing.

522
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: I mean, in that sense, he's he's made it really hard.

523
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: He's made it really hard to look at this as

524
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: anything other than through the prism of his own narcissism.

525
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: And the irony is that had he been sort of

526
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: a leader with a vision, had he cared about sort

527
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: of building a Republican party that could last beyond his years,

528
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: he would have i think, governed a lot differently. In

529
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: the first six months. How they you know, he was

530
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: so anxious. And maybe this has to do with him

531
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: feeling that he waited too long to do things in

532
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: the first term, and maybe it's mortality getting to him

533
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: and he's afraid that, you know, he doesn't have a

534
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: full four years. I don't know what it is, but

535
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: how he's gone about this where he's obsessed with quickly

536
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: putting his name on things, quickly being able to get notoriety,

537
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: desperate for a Nobel Peace Prize, desperate to see his

538
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: name associated with some sort of legacy thing like putting.

539
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: You know, right now people are up in arms about

540
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: the renaming of the Kennedy Center after him. Remember he

541
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: did this with the US Institute of Peace, a institute

542
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: that he defunded and tried to get rid of, but

543
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: instead slapped his name on it so that he could

544
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: have the words peace and Donald Trump in the same sentence.

545
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: So when you look at this year in total, when

546
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,959
Speaker 1: you look at him with a job rating in the

547
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: very low forties, rating on the economy in the load

548
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: to mid thirties, it is a reminder that Donald Trump

549
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: did not win the twenty twenty four election. Kamala Harris

550
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: and Joe Biden lost the twenty twenty four election, just

551
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: like Joe Biden made the mistake of believing he won

552
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty when that was not the case. Donald

553
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: Trump lost in twenty twenty, just like Hillary Clinton lost

554
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. All Right, obviously, what do I mean

555
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: by that? Well, the voters knew who they didn't want

556
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: as president, and the voters were willing to roll the

557
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: dice with an unknown or roll the dice with what

558
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: they thought was a known quantity the second time. Right

559
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: the first time, Hey, let's disrupt things. We kind of

560
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: know what a Hillary Clinton presidency is going to look like.

561
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: We have no idea what a Trump president's going to

562
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: look like. And we're kind of in a cranky, grumpy mood.

563
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: This economy kind of sucks. I wish it were better.

564
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: I don't like this. I don't like that. I certainly

565
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: don't want to return to some sort of Clinton status quo. Okay,

566
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: so you understood that. Then incomes, you know, the pandemic happens.

567
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: You're like, oh my god, we're in a moment of crisis.

568
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: This guy can't make the trains run on time. And

569
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: it was just like, can you just give me a

570
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: functional bureaucrat. Joe Biden thirty plus years experience, seemed like

571
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: that functional Democrat to just make sure we can get

572
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: some COVID shots, make sure we can, you know, keep

573
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: our allies our allies, and go from there. And now

574
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: we see that that was the case. So I do

575
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 1: think when you see the political standing of the president,

576
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: you see where Democrats look like a resurgent party, because remember,

577
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: this is a party that's still very unpopular. This is

578
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: a party where swing voters don't really trust Democratic leaders,

579
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: don't really trust even some democratic stances, particularly on some

580
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: social issues, but they don't like the party in power, right,

581
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: they don't like what they have, And so we have

582
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: been voting, I would argue since to nine. Right, the

583
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: last time we voted for a president was Barack Obama

584
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: in twenty oh eight. Everything else has been more of

585
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: a vote against type of election. Twenty ten a vote

586
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: against sort of Democrats expanding the size of governments. Right,

587
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: the Tea Party surge got fired up that wing of

588
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: the party, Republicans win the House, but it was a

589
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: vote against, right, it was a vote against the Democrats.

590
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: Twenty twelve many ways was not an easy re election

591
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: for Barack Obama when you looked at the state of

592
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: the economy, well, they did a successful job saying, oh, yeah,

593
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,959
Speaker 1: you're not gonna want met Romney's economy. You're not gonna

594
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: want met Romney deciding these policies. You're going to be

595
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: better off with Barack Obama policies than you will Bet

596
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: Romney policies. And they painted him as an outsourcer, as

597
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: a guy in the pocket of China, and that played

598
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: well in the Midwest. It's also the last time Democrats

599
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: were able to carry Iowa, Ohio, in addition to Michigan, Pennsylvania,

600
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: and Wisconsin. Not a small deal. But again, I look

601
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: at twenty twelve, not necessarily as a vote for but

602
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: really when you look at how he carried those Midwestern states,

603
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: he was not promoting himself. They were attack ads against

604
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: Mettroney twenty fourteen, Another vote against election twenty sixteen, Another

605
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: vote against election twenty eighteen, another vote against election right

606
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty another vote against election twenty twenty two is

607
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: the weird one where it was mostly an electorate that

608
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: wanted to put a check on Biden, but you had

609
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: an awful sort of slate of Republican candidates that minimize

610
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: the gains that they should have made. And now it

611
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: gave some false hope to Joe Biden. You had a

612
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: Biden white House that totally misinterpreted what happened in twenty

613
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: twenty two and fully not appreciating that that was just

614
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: a case of really bad, really bad Republican primary outcomes.

615
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: It wasn't as if the country was saying no, no, no, no,

616
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: we want more Biden cow Bell. That was not what

617
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two was about. And of course now we

618
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: know twenty twenty four was a vote against elections. So

619
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 1: here we are again after one year of Trump, where

620
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: he had an opportunity and I would argue he had

621
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: a you know, he you know, no honeymoon periods very

622
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: long anymore in American politics. The war information ecosystem works.

623
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: But he had a good three months and Liberation Day

624
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: in April just destroyed any hope he had. And he's

625
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: been he's not really recovered from that moment. You know,

626
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: even the good economic news that he gets, like the

627
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: recent news about the GDP over the summer, when you

628
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: look at the details, you realize, oh, most Americans aren't

629
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: benefiting from that expanded GDP. It is really about the

630
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: investments in AI. So look, it certainly sets up what

631
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: appears to be another vote again election, which we could,

632
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, argue, now this will be we're going to

633
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: hit what is nearly twenty years of this, right, our

634
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: eighteenth year sort of our let's see here ten twelve, fourteen, sixteen, eighteen, twenty,

635
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: twenty two, twenty four be our ninth straight national election

636
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: where basically the voters that decide who wins or loses

637
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: not about the two bases, but those of us that

638
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: live in the messy middle. You're going essentially to the

639
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: polls with a vote against rather than something to vote for,

640
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: and that our collective I understand some of you saying no, no, no, no,

641
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: I always vote for an individual candidate. Yeah, but it's

642
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: binary choice. Right, Ultimately we have a binary choice, and

643
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: that we're having our ninth straight election where we're we've

644
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: been living in this a generation of a political recession.

645
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 1: And you know, I would argue this, You know I

646
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: can make the case this goes back at least through

647
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: even in two thousand, right, we were starting to see

648
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: the first pieces of this. So look, I want to

649
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: spend a little bit of Next week, I'll have a

650
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a podcast. We're gonna do another We're

651
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: going to two this week with also a special edition.

652
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna you know, if it's if you haven't heard it,

653
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: it's new to you, as I used to say an NBC.

654
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna re up the Jasmine Crockett interview I

655
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: did a few months ago, with a little bit of

656
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,479
Speaker 1: a little bit of a Texas introduction to it later

657
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: this week. But next week I'll have another new episode

658
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: and we'll do a little bit of sort of where

659
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: the two parties are going. But I think, just briefly,

660
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: what we're watching I touched on it before. I do

661
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: think we're seeing Trump's coalition. As I've said for the

662
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: last three or four months, it is the coalition is cracking.

663
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: The cracks are showing. Now they're not just cracks anymore, right,

664
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: They're chasms in some cases. I think you're going to

665
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: see more of this. I think what we saw in Heritage,

666
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: this is sort of this is going to show itself

667
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: up more in twenty eight than it is in twenty six.

668
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: I mean sure, I think you'll see some hints of

669
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: this divide inside the right in the Texas Senate primary.

670
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: You'll see some of this perhaps in the Georgia Senate primary,

671
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: but for the most part, Republicans have avoided They're going

672
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: to avoid some messy primaries. So most of this infighting

673
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: is going to continue to take place online, continue to

674
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: take place in podcasts, and really start to ramp up

675
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: as the presidential candidates of twenty eight start to start

676
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: to rise, whether it's Cruise Pants Paul, all three of

677
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: them very much sort of coming at the mega coalition

678
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: in different ways, each wanting a piece of it, but

679
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: very critical to some parts of it. Right, and how

680
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: that can continues to splinter, I think is going to

681
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: be an animating force inside the Republican Party for the

682
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 1: next easily for the next two years. And I do

683
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: think you see that the online MAGA world, right, this

684
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: world of Eric Kirk, Meghan Kelly, Ben Shapiro. You know

685
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: some of you that listen to this podcast, maybe you

686
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: know these names are familiar. You may see him online.

687
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: It strikes me as this is, as I said in

688
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: an earlier podcast, that this is the rights version of

689
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: the groups. Right. You have democratic politicians who were afraid

690
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: to sort of connect with voters in the middle because

691
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: they didn't want to alienate certain groups. I think it's

692
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: pretty clear the Biden White House in the first two

693
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: years totally mismanaged the border, put restraints on Ali Mayorcis

694
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: and dhs from being able to do their job the

695
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: way they did it. May Orcus did with Jay Johnson

696
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: during the second Trump second Obama term because they didn't

697
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: want to offend the groups when the voters, you know,

698
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: were the ones that were making this this quote unquote,

699
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: not the groups, right. Well, I think now you're seeing

700
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: something similar happen in magaworld where they're where you have

701
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: Republicans seem to be more concerned about what's being said online,

702
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: who's saying it online, appeasing some online activists, rather than

703
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: actually talking to the voters. And I think that they

704
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: are detaching themselves from the mainstream of political debate by

705
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: being so consumed about what's being said at a turning

706
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: Point convention or what's being said on a Megan Kelly

707
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: podcast or any of this stuff. And like how the

708
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: I think the Democrats got consumed with appeasing progressive groups

709
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: and social justice groups at the expense of alienating swing

710
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: voters in the suburbs and the excerps. I think you're

711
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: seeing the same thing start to take place on the right.

712
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: But make no mistake, the Democrats also, there's a chance

713
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: they're having their own tea party moment. And you know,

714
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: the twenty ten midterms for Republicans were a huge success

715
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: on the House side of things, but they came up

716
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: shortened Senate races because of their own infighting. They had

717
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: primary challenges. They had sort of this tea party surge

718
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: which sort of was sort of Maga before we were

719
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: calling it. Maga was challenging the establishment wing of the

720
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: Republican Party, and it upset you know, you had the

721
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: which nominee. You know, at one point, you had the

722
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: bad nominee in Indiana. You had the bad nominee in

723
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: Nevada against Harry Reid. Right, you had all those things

724
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 1: both in the ten cycle and the twelve cycle, which

725
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: held them back. You can't help but wonder if the

726
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: Democrats are going through the same thing that they have.

727
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: You know, the quote, is there a liberal tea party

728
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: moment happening? Right? It's a little cliche to say it

729
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: that way, but there's definitely something. There's something happening here,

730
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: right the establishment of the Democratic Party doesn't have a

731
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 1: lot of credit, credibility with Democratic voters right now, doesn't

732
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: have a lot of credibility with Democratic donors right now,

733
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: and that's leading to what appears to be some terrible

734
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: primaries that are probably going to nominate less electable nominees,

735
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 1: whether it's Texas Senate, Michigan Senate, Main Senate. Those would

736
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: be catastrophic, right and you could see Democrats end up

737
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: in a similar scenario situation that Republicans were in twenty ten.

738
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: They went a ton of seats in the House and

739
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: actually come up short in the Senate. You know, they

740
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: only win, you know, only they come up one or

741
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: two seats short from winning the majority, just like Senate

742
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: Republicans did in twenty ten. So, you know, it's interesting.

743
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty four, you know, sort of ended with a

744
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: divided Democratic Party and a more united Republican Party than

745
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: we'd seen since the beginning of the Trump era. Twenty

746
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: twenty five ends still with a divided Democratic Party, though

747
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: with a unifying force that is Trump for the midterms,

748
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: but the divisions are still pretty pretty out. But you

749
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: now have a pretty divided Republican Party and that is

750
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: what we're dealing with as we kick off for twenty

751
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: twenty six. There's actually a bunch of the other small

752
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: things I wanted to get to here, but you know what,

753
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: I've gone forty minutes here. It's Christmas Eve, and as

754
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: I'm sure some of you want to get back to

755
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: your family, others of you are out for that walk,

756
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: taking a few minutes with yourself, going when is Chuck

757
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: going to get to his college football up date? Well,

758
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: let's get to the Mike Pesca interview and then we'll

759
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 1: talk some sports on letters. There's a reason results matter

760
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: more than promises, just like there's a reason Morgan and

761
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. For the last

762
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: thirty five years, they've recovered twenty five billion dollars for

763
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 1: more than half a million clients. It includes cases where

764
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: insurance companies offered next to nothing, just hoping to get

765
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: away with paying as little as possible, and Morgan fought

766
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,879
Speaker 1: back ended up winning millions. In fact, in Pennsylvania, one

767
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: client was awarded twenty six million dollars, which was a

768
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: staggering forty times the amount that the insurance company originally offered.

769
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 1: That original offer six hundred and fifty thousand dollars twenty

770
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: six million, six hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So with

771
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: more than one thousand lawyers across the country, they know

772
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured, you

773
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: need a lawyer, you need somebody to get your back.

774
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot com, Slash podcast or

775
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: Dow Pound Law Pound five to two nine law on

776
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: your cell phone. And remember all law firms are not

777
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: the same, So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee

778
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: is free unless they win. So joining me now with

779
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: frankly without a I'm not going to sit here and

780
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: say we have a specific reason we're talking other than

781
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: I like to talk to smart, interesting people, and Mike

782
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: Pescott is smart. You'll just decide how interesting he is.

783
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: But he seems to be interesting enough. I kid in

784
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: that many of you may be listeners to his podcast,

785
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: maybe subscribers to his newsletter to things that I am

786
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: so with that, mister Pesca, who I blew it? I

787
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: thought I was thinking fish is your last name, and

788
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: you're like, no, it's Italian for peaches, right.

789
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: That's why the GISTs Production Company is peachfish productions because

790
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: the peach is literally Italian. Yeah. Many Spanish verb forms

791
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: of two.

792
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: Fish are the fish. So yeah, you know what, you know,

793
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: two things I wouldn't want to eat together.

794
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,959
Speaker 2: I think that probably a good chefish marmally glad.

795
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: But you would have to make the peach. You'd have

796
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: to make it more like mango and like create a salsa.

797
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: I guess you could say you could probably create a

798
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: peach salsa that's on your fish taco.

799
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: It's a challenge, right, It would definitely be something that

800
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 2: would break most contestants on cooking shows.

801
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so first of all, I appreciate you. You seem

802
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: to be always make content, so I appreciate that you're

803
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: helping me make content. How how many how many side

804
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: hustles do you have? And what do you what do

805
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: you say you do these days for a little bit.

806
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 2: Sometimes you have so many side hustles that you say

807
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: is they're a real hustle. I've been doing the Gist

808
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 2: for twelve years, almost twelve years. The longest running news

809
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 2: and analysis podcast, and that is daily. It's actually six

810
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 2: days a week.

811
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: That's what I used to say about Meet the Press,

812
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: the longest running television show You're Longest that's documentable.

813
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 2: With podcasts, there is a little bit of wiggle room

814
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 2: because no one's taking account in the beginning.

815
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: And the fastest growing podcast in the in the two

816
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: two two zero seven zip code. I don't know about you,

817
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: but anyway.

818
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 2: Wow, you know, the bragging chock is a little it's

819
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 2: a little bit unbecoming, is what I'm saying here. Yes,

820
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 2: so I do that, and then I have the sub stack,

821
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 2: which is every day we have THEI just list, which

822
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 2: are a bunch of stories I maybe can't get to

823
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: on the gist. And then I do a written piece

824
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: on When's day and I'm taking over. I can't announce it,

825
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 2: but I'm taking over a new podcast where maybe maybe

826
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 2: you'll be on asking people how to refurbish your second floor.

827
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: Let's just say that, Well, all right, well I have

828
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: refurbished the second floor. I need to clean up my

829
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: second floor. How do I accomplish my exercise refurbishing sweep

830
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: of all of that? What if I thought of one

831
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: theme I wanted to speak with you about. It is

832
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, it's interesting I sort of

833
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: began my calendar year getting started in this world of

834
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: independent media. Going on your podcast early you were sort

835
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: of very, very gracious with that. But it's been quite

836
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: a year in media in general, especially legacy media, and

837
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,760
Speaker 1: sort of like, if you think about where we began

838
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: and where we ended, is the information ecosystem at the

839
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty five worse or better than at

840
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: the start of twenty twenty five?

841
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 2: Okay, just twenty twenty five. I say it's potentially better,

842
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: maybe because so much of the degradation is baked in

843
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: and priced in, and it's not getting worse and we've

844
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 2: been habituated to it. But a couple of the big trends,

845
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 2: one that is often decried by my left leaning friends

846
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: is what's happening with CBS and Barry Weiss and full disclosure,

847
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: I've written a couple pieces for the Free Press. The

848
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: way I look at that is two things. I know

849
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 2: that people will slam Barry Weiss for that. They say

850
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 2: bringing more of a right leaning sensibility to CBS, to

851
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 2: which I say, there are three broadcast networks and five

852
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 2: all news networks or quasi news networks with significant budgets.

853
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 2: I'm not counting OAAN and the like, although News Nation

854
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 2: does some nice things, and four of them. If we're

855
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: being fair, before Barry took control, we're somewhere in the

856
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 2: center to left leaning. So I know, as you know NBC,

857
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 2: the NBC, NBC very much tried not to be but

858
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 2: of course MSNBC was left leaning to be honest, and

859
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 2: CNN will I think they tacked more to the center,

860
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 2: Fox being right leaning. But what I'm saying is just

861
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 2: in terms of if you take away everyone's strong feelings

862
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 2: about politics, if you're just looking at them as businesses,

863
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: and four businesses on the block were selling ice cream

864
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 2: and kind of not doing that great, and one business

865
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 2: on the block was selling cotton candy and doing quite well.

866
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 2: Wouldn't some combo cotton candy ice cream business maybe be

867
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 2: the smart play. So this is all I'm saying. If

868
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 2: you want to call Barry right wood or center right,

869
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 2: she would call it. She really tries to say she's

870
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 2: trying to keep it between the forty yard lines. It

871
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: seems like a smart enough repositioning. And to that, I'd add,

872
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: if you were to hire a person and to do this,

873
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: why not hire the only person who's built the truly

874
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 2: successful media business from scratch in the last five years?

875
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,479
Speaker 2: There's a case that Ben Smith of Semaphore is doing

876
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: something similar. I think on smaller scales, even big Barry

877
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 2: White's critics like Oliver Darcy, I think, is making a

878
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: million dollars with his substack, And there are some substacked successes,

879
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: but Barry's the biggest success. So add that up a

880
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 2: little bit differentiation in the news business and a track

881
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:33,439
Speaker 2: record of success. I'm more interested than concerned. Let's say

882
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 2: I think she could do good things. I don't know,

883
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 2: what do you think?

884
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've not I am all four. I am sort

885
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: of rooting for the disruption, right, you know, I've seen

886
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: and I benefited from a disruptor coming into NBC, a

887
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 1: woman by the name of Debora Turnas, who I still

888
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: find to be one of the best network executives I

889
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: ever worked with, because she wasn't afraid, she wasn't afraid

890
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: to break things, and look, it got her the BBC job.

891
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: And then of course she had a fall on her

892
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: sword for something that happened below her. But that's also

893
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: says something about her, meaning like she sort of she

894
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: gets it. Okay, that's on me. You know, I'm the

895
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: buck stops with me, So I'm all for seeing disruption,

896
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: because I've seen network executives that just try to placate

897
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: the bosses right don't succeed. And so my only question

898
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: of her decision was you left the Times because you

899
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: didn't like working for the Salzburgers. Are you sure you

900
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: wanted to give up your independence to work for the Elesons? Right?

901
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: Like that that would be and that's like, to me,

902
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: the biggest It's funny. I also think this has been

903
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: a turning point for the collective media, meaning that you're

904
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: starting to see the audience feel more comfortable in the

905
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: independent spaces. You're seeing more people feel more comfortable trying

906
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:07,760
Speaker 1: to launch in the independent space. And you know, I'm

907
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: pessimistic that any of the legacy media companies can be

908
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: They have good brands, and they can certainly tweak shows

909
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: and use their resources, you know. Specific I just don't

910
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: know if any of the legacy news divisions are ever

911
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: going to be what they were right, because there's no

912
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: money in it, right, there's no financial incentive. It is

913
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: really it's just about whether you know, in the case

914
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: of the Ellison's, like, here'd be my fear if I

915
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: were Berry, if Wes Moore is the next president of

916
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: the United States, do the Ellison's care about the news

917
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: division anymore, right, you know, because Wes Moore isn't like

918
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,919
Speaker 1: on top of them, you know, helping them with other

919
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,439
Speaker 1: business deals. And in order to get those business deals,

920
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: they've got to placate the president with certain things with

921
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 1: the media business, with the new side of things, right,

922
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: and that would be something which is does all of

923
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: the you know, right now I'm getting what if I'm Barry,

924
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: I'm getting some running room, I get to do a

925
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 1: special on Saturday nights, and which is the lowest, you know,

926
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: the lowest rated portion of network television, which is why

927
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: a lot of times you will see town halls and

928
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: special news presentations either on Friday evenings or Saturday evenings. Yes,

929
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: because literally those are the two nights that they can't

930
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: sell ads.

931
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 2: For or counter program with a Charlie Brown special from

932
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: twenty years.

933
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: Ago, exactly exactly. So that would be my concern whether

934
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: there is really an interest in allowing CBS to stay

935
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: disruptive CBS News beyond sort of what feels like performance

936
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: art for the man in the Oval office.

937
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, a couple points, did Barry and I've never

938
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: talked to her about the Sulzburgers per se or ae.

939
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 2: Did she defect? She defected from The New York Times.

940
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 2: Was it a Salzburger thing? The way I analyze what happened.

941
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, that's my point, but you

942
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: are the Salzburgers. Do care about that opinion page.

943
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 2: I think at a time which was the height of

944
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 2: the New York Times being sort of redefined away from

945
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 2: the idea of objectivity, it had gotten out of control

946
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 2: and out of the hands of a Salzburger. And you

947
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 2: probably read I don't know how many out.

948
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: Of the hands of Dean Bckay. I mean, who was trying.

949
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: He couldn't manage his own You know, you had basically

950
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 1: a revolt. I believe you let the And this to

951
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: me has been something I've been obsessed with, which is

952
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: be careful of the audience you build, because you may

953
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: become captive of your audience subscribers.

954
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 2: I think at a certain point Nicole Hannah Jones was

955
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 2: more important in the New York Times than Dean Buckay.

956
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 2: And she's done great work. But this is a bad situation.

957
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 2: You know, these are we know from sports, when the

958
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 2: star becomes more important than the coach who you defer to.

959
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 2: My point with the Salzburgers is I see a lot

960
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 2: of evidence that he specifically was uncomfortable with where his

961
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 2: newspaper had gone, and he wrote a large piece in

962
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 2: the Columbia Journalism Review, which is only going to be

963
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 2: read by journalists, but it was a signal we are

964
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 2: getting back to the idea of objectivity. He knew he

965
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 2: couldn't use the word objectivity. It's a really interesting essay.

966
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: He even said that word is so toxic among so

967
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 2: many people in news, which I think is really interesting

968
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: and alarming that I'm not even going to try to

969
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 2: defend the word objectivity. We just believe in independence journalism.

970
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: And then he goes on to define independent journalism as

971
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 2: objectivity or something like objectivity. So that's point one. I

972
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 2: think that where The New York Times is now is

973
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 2: a place that is a bit more aligned with maybe

974
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 2: Barrywise's worldview. The other thing I'd say about the Ellisons is,

975
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 2: you're right if Wes Moore, if someone calm and soothing

976
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 2: or at least just not don.

977
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: Just sort of like less a little boring, Let's be honest, right,

978
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: Andy Bisheer and I say this though, you know that

979
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: sounds like a big criticizing. It may be that America

980
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: wants boring come twenty twenty nine.

981
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 2: So you're saying not Gavin Newsome, Like Gavin might be

982
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 2: a lightning rod.

983
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: I would, I would be surprised if we go from

984
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: big personality the big personality. Yeah, I actually think you know,

985
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: usually what we do as a country, if you think

986
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: about it, when we elect a new president and we

987
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: will be electing a new one in twenty eight, we

988
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: usually elect somebody who has more of a character trait

989
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 1: that the previous one is missing.

990
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 2: Right after that week got Pope, a skinny pope. All

991
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 2: that's sort of mindset, Like I go through it right. H. W.

992
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: Bush was kind of detached. Bill Clinton was fiel your pain, right.

993
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton was a bit of a party animal. George W.

994
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: Bush was the reformed alcoholic that wasn't going to you know, stray.

995
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: George Bush saw everything in black and white. Barack Obama

996
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: was nothing but gray area nuanced, right, you know. So

997
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: we do have this tendency, and so that's why I

998
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: am I would. You know, this is not personal to

999
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom. I'm bearish on his chances to be the

1000
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: next president more out of character and temperament, sort of

1001
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: comparisons to Trump. Well, do we want another big personality

1002
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: that's constantly a where the world revolves around the personality

1003
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: rather than the country as a whole.

1004
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: Good analysis, as always, this is what we expect from you.

1005
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 2: But my point was was this, if people I know

1006
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 2: you don't think this, I assume you don't. If people

1007
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 2: took your analysis about if it's Wes Moore, do they

1008
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 2: become unengaged? It is not the case that, especially David Allison,

1009
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 2: who has more hands on control of the newsroom, is MAGA.

1010
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: Is even against MAGA.

1011
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 2: I'm not a Republican conservative. He gave one hundred million

1012
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 2: dollars to the Joe Biden Fund. So it is not

1013
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 2: if people hear that and say, oh, unless the unless

1014
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 2: CBS is allowed to run an ideological newsroom, he's going

1015
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 2: to become uninvolved. That's not the case, and that's not

1016
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: what you're saying. It's just if things calm down and

1017
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 2: politics aren't the way to get people's attention or for

1018
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 2: him to make money. Because a politician donald Trump will

1019
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 2: be so involved in our regulatory schemes, he might get

1020
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: less involved but it's not because that he's ideologically committed.

1021
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: No, I think it's more of that, And I've never

1022
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: thought I think, you know, I don't think Silicon Valley

1023
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: is ideologically aligned with Trump. I think they are just

1024
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: seeing it as the fastest way to get from A

1025
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: to B.

1026
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think many in Silicon Valley are, if not

1027
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 2: ideologically aligned with things like tariffs, were extremely upset with

1028
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 2: DEI and wokeism, and also thought that there were elements

1029
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 2: of the Biden regulatory scheme that were challenging what they

1030
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 2: were trying to do to improve society.

1031
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: And I'll give you a shorter version of that. Biden

1032
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: did allow the bureaucrats to play a role. Trump will

1033
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: allow you to shortcut in getting around regulatory issues.

1034
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 2: Yes, but of course it's just had not because of

1035
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 2: some well thought.

1036
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 1: Out planned No, it's transactions. And that's my point, right,

1037
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: is to go back to the original point. Will Barry

1038
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: have a budget in twenty nine? If the Ellisons decide, hey,

1039
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 1: they don't need to placate a president with the news

1040
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: division anymore, we'll spend our lobbying dollars another way, Essentially,

1041
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: it's sort of like it's almost as if the news

1042
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: division is part of your lobbying budget, right, And if

1043
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: you're Frankly, if you're Disney, if you're Comcast and your

1044
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 1: paramount skuidant, you kind of are operating that way.

1045
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 2: And the other thing to say is that this is

1046
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 2: all fascinating to us in some portion of your audience.

1047
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 2: But with the CBS news viewers, we're talking about five

1048
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 2: percent of them America.

1049
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: Well, and we're also talking about generationally only one demographic group.

1050
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: I mean, have you seen the average age of the

1051
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: cable newsviewer.

1052
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 2: It's not seventy They died three years ago. And the

1053
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 2: other thing with CBS, well, they have these amazing properties,

1054
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: these legacy properties. Sixty minutes. I love sixty minutes, but

1055
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 2: I'm not convinced that sixty minutes. The reason that they're

1056
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 2: so popular is because of who they are and their

1057
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 2: attention to detail and their story selection. But I think

1058
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 2: it all comes down to there after football of it

1059
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 2: comes down, By the way, do you know what they

1060
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 2: never do? They never They never saved their best stuff

1061
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 2: for the spring.

1062
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: No, okay, which, by the way, you know, it's like,

1063
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: why do you what do they ask? Is it? Is

1064
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: it the Bonnie and Clyde. Why do you rob banks?

1065
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: That's where the money is. It's like, you know, why

1066
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: do you why do you save your stories for the

1067
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: faults where the audience is right. It's where it's right

1068
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 1: after ball, So of course you do. Yeah, but i'd

1069
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 1: look at do I think. I will say this about

1070
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: CBS if you think about it, they have between Sunday

1071
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: Morning and sixty minutes, they have two of the more

1072
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: interesting brands that have a chance to survive even if

1073
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: the network doesn't.

1074
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, distinct brands, brands that mean something. And not only

1075
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 2: will people be sad that they go, but if you

1076
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 2: took them and put them somewhere else, it's very clear.

1077
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 2: Their DNA is so unique that you could have a

1078
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 2: turnkey operation.

1079
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: We know, I think sixty minutes, I think, and so

1080
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: I have this, We're about to see. The next big

1081
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: shake up in the way people consume information is going

1082
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: to come at the local TV affiliate level, right where

1083
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: you have the So we have this mega merger coming

1084
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: up between Tegna and Next Star, and what that is

1085
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: going to create is a lot of overlap in a

1086
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: lot of their markets, and you're going to have these

1087
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 1: duopolies that are going to start popping up, and you

1088
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 1: already see him. My hometown of Miami is now the

1089
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: largest market in the country with the duopoly. The person

1090
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: that owns the you Know channel, the Fox affiliate, also

1091
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 1: owns now the ABC affiliate. But he's only gonna have

1092
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: one news division, right, and there isn't going to be

1093
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: local news for the ABC affiliate. It really is just

1094
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: sort of a digital channel that will just you know,

1095
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: provide the ABC programming, which for most people in South

1096
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: Florida is football. But what you're going to have is

1097
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: I actually think we're about three or four years away

1098
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 1: from what I call ala carte, where everything becomes a

1099
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 1: la carte, where you might have a local affiliate say

1100
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: you know what we want. We want Savannah Guthrie in

1101
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 1: the morning. We want I want the Tony diacoppole in

1102
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: the evening. I want Meet the Press on Sunday, but

1103
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: I want CBS Sunday Morning. Right, It's good. I have

1104
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 1: a feeling we're going in the same way we're watching

1105
01:04:57,960 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: this with with people in our space here in the

1106
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: end dependance space starting to license their content on a

1107
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: Pluto or on a Netflix or on Amazon. I think

1108
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: we're about to see the same thing explode in the

1109
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: local TV Atfilly Market, which means we're going to find out,

1110
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, how big of a brand is Good Morning

1111
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: of America, Good Morning America? How big a brand? I

1112
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 1: think Today's show's pretty big. You know what about the

1113
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: Sunday morning programming right where the brands will matter more

1114
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: than the network itself that they appear.

1115
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the reason is this is how the consumer,

1116
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 2: the under seventy three average age consumer, programs their own

1117
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 2: news already. They you know, my kids don't know what

1118
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 2: a network is or what a channel is.

1119
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: The channel numbers meaningless to my kids. I have an

1120
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: eighteen year old and a twenty one year old. They

1121
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 1: don't know the numbers any They know.

1122
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 2: News for that's it. Yeah, I just I get PV

1123
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 2: and there aren't numbers assigned, So news for is just

1124
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 2: I mean, they could have called themselves news Purple. It doesn't. Yeah.

1125
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, it is all changing. And we haven't even

1126
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 2: talked out print. We haven't even talked about what we

1127
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 2: really need, which is investigative journalism and journalism with a

1128
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 2: lot of teeth, and journalism that can stand up to pressure.

1129
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,959
Speaker 2: And I think that their pro publica does a great job.

1130
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 2: Some of the nonprofits want to do a good job,

1131
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 2: but I think and I think there is a certain

1132
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 2: amount of appetite for it. But what the great newspapers,

1133
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 2: especially newspapers, used to be able to do was fund

1134
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 2: these efforts from their advertising, from their car advertising, from

1135
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 2: especially their want ads and their classifieds. And that's all done.

1136
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 2: So not only do you have these, you know, all

1137
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 2: these city councils not being covered. You just don't have

1138
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 2: the great investigation that the Indianapolis Star or the Kansas

1139
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 2: City Star or the Sacramento Bee was going to do

1140
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 2: as a matter of course, because that's what you did.

1141
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 2: And we don't even know what the price of having

1142
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 2: all that lost is. And maybe it's just local and

1143
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 2: maybe it doesn't get above the you know, land commissioner

1144
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 2: for Albuquerque, but it's a big loss.

1145
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,240
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Speaker 1: I've given up booze. I don't like the hangovers. I

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1169
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 1: I guess I'm like, A, I'm optimistic because B I

1170
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 1: want to try to build something that scales that because

1171
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 1: I think that's a gap in the market. I completely agree.

1172
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 1: And you know, what I worry about is that some

1173
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: journalism can be done independently in solo. You and I

1174
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 1: are proven this, But there are some things I could

1175
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 1: I would love to do, but I need more resources.

1176
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: I need literally more physical human beings. I don't care

1177
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: how many Geminis or chat Gypts you're going to give me.

1178
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: They all can't walk the street, right, They can't do

1179
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: the door knocking that you sometimes need in an investigative journalism.

1180
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: And I think that this this is what you know,

1181
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: My hope is that we'll start to see new consortiums,

1182
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: you know, after the sort of you know, if you

1183
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: look at the history of UPI, which was a wire

1184
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 1: service before the AP existed, and AP was a different

1185
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: type of wire service they really were. They started off

1186
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:21,640
Speaker 1: as attempts to try to allow local news organizations to

1187
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: share resources and share material. It was in some ways, hey,

1188
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 1: oh that might be of use to our readers too.

1189
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:30,719
Speaker 1: You know, we can trade off and if you figure

1190
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: out how to ban these folks together that maybe they

1191
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: can start working together on collaborative investigative pieces. Right. Pro

1192
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,640
Speaker 1: Publica does this a little bit, Well, they'll team up

1193
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 1: with a with a news organization. Notice is doing this

1194
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 1: with some small independent locals. They're being the Washington Bureau.

1195
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:47,600
Speaker 2: I do you like what that?

1196
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: I do too? Oh my gosh, I just had two

1197
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 1: of their founders on, two of their young folks on,

1198
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 1: because for me, Mike Notice is suddenly the only news

1199
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: organization based in Washington, d C. That covers Washington, d C.

1200
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 1: The Washington Post might as well be called the Post.

1201
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 1: They have decided to no longer as in former former

1202
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:12,799
Speaker 1: right they knew longer need to be. They have gotten

1203
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,760
Speaker 1: rid of everything that made them Washington right, even the

1204
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: food critic there, you know, their their sports page has

1205
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: never been smaller and less impactful, and that was so vital.

1206
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:28,879
Speaker 2: The Post and the Boston Globe, just the two great

1207
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 2: regional sports pages, launched so many stars. And now they

1208
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 2: just and even before that the style section, which was

1209
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 2: such a great section and oh no it wasn't about styles. Yeah.

1210
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 1: It really frustrates me because it feels as if Bezos said,

1211
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:45,599
Speaker 1: I want to be the Wall Street Journal And you're like, well,

1212
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,720
Speaker 1: we already have one, and they're better at it than you.

1213
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 2: Guys, I think you said I want to be Reason magazine.

1214
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 2: I mean, he's stole their.

1215
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 1: Entire Can I can I get I have one? You know,

1216
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: we were talking about different editorial pages. Here's something I

1217
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 1: wish Jeff Bezos had thought of, and I wish mister

1218
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 1: Salzburger would think of. Why does an editor? Why do

1219
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 1: you have to have one? Who set the rule to

1220
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 1: say you only are allowed to have one? Why not?

1221
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 1: You know, Look, we live in a world where partisanship

1222
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 1: is in stereo. Do I wish we didn't? Maybe I'd

1223
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 1: wish we didn't, But you know what, two hundred of

1224
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:20,679
Speaker 1: our two hundred and fifty years we have lived this way.

1225
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 1: Our media has been partisan much longer than it has

1226
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: been nonpartisan. Okay, we had a brief window between World

1227
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:30,560
Speaker 1: War two and nine to eleven where we had basically

1228
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:35,679
Speaker 1: a media that attempted to not affiliate with a party.

1229
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 1: But before that and frankly after, it's actually been par

1230
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: for the course that media sort of identified with a movement.

1231
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 2: This is why the papers are called the Rochester Democrat,

1232
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 2: This free right.

1233
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 1: I try. It's sort of one of these things that

1234
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: I tell journalism schools all the time. Hey, guys, this

1235
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 1: is not new right. The Waterbury Republican, the Arkansas Democrat

1236
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 1: is at the Tayle Assi Democrat. You brought up Rochester

1237
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:02,799
Speaker 1: is another one. What's wrong with having two editorial pages?

1238
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it been great? Wouldn't it be great if the

1239
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 1: New York Times had, you know, basically had a conservative

1240
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: editorial essentially section and a liberal editorial section and frankly

1241
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 1: allowed them to be side by side.

1242
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:22,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1243
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: Back in the nineties, the Atlanta Journal Constitution when they

1244
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 1: had to do their joint operating agreement on Sundays, printed

1245
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 1: one news newspaper and their editorial page on the left

1246
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: was the Atlanta Constitution and on the right was the

1247
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 1: Atlanta Journal.

1248
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I lived in Atlanta then and it the greatest.

1249
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 2: Tell you it covered Dixie like to do. But how

1250
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 2: great is that? Like?

1251
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: Why is that? Why is that not?

1252
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 2: Like?

1253
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: That's the world I lived in. My father was a

1254
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 1: conservative who always wanted to know what the liberals were saying,

1255
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 1: so he subscribed to National Review and New Republic all right.

1256
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: He thought the nation was too far of the left,

1257
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:01,600
Speaker 1: but he was in the New Republic. It was like,

1258
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 1: that's aw Gores. It was like I remember him saying, yeah,

1259
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 1: the guy is a big algore guy. And you know,

1260
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 1: you know back in the day Marty parts and you had.

1261
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 1: But the point was he wanted both sides of an argument.

1262
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: He wanted to hear both sides of the argument. I

1263
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 1: don't know why newspapers decided they only should have one voice.

1264
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 2: That's how I was raised. My dad was a social

1265
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 2: studies teacher, the consummate social studies teacher. When I got

1266
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 2: into news, he said, let me subscribe you to I

1267
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 2: swear the two magazines that I got from the age

1268
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 2: of twelve to eighteen, where the National Review in the

1269
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 2: New Republic. I mean, those were trailblazing magazines then, and

1270
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 2: I learned the latter from them. I think one of

1271
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 2: the reasons it doesn't work is that what you just said,

1272
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 2: audience capture, and that the audience you and I want that.

1273
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 2: And if you poll people, they would say they want that, but.

1274
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 1: I say they want it, yeah, but they don't.

1275
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 2: I think I feel dedicated news consumers are they Some

1276
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 2: are news consumers, many are ideology consumers. Many are tell

1277
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 2: me the world, give me reflection of the world as

1278
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 2: I see it, consumers, And I don't know this is

1279
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:07,639
Speaker 2: overly harsh a criticism, But what if The New York

1280
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:11,679
Speaker 2: Times did a liberal or conservative editorial page. I'm sure

1281
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 2: someone listening to this would say they tried it. And

1282
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 2: then James Bennett got fired based on publishing the Tom

1283
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 2: Cotton op ed. I think that, yeah, that's an ideal.

1284
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:25,560
Speaker 2: I don't know that we'll ever regain that time.

1285
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 1: No or not. But the reason I'm disappointed in Bezos

1286
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 1: in this is that if he had actually applied the

1287
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 1: lessons he learned from building Amazon the Everything Store, imagine

1288
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: imagine if he behaved as if I want to build

1289
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 1: the Everything information store.

1290
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 2: Yes, but he wants to maximize profit with Amazon, and

1291
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 2: the post is a different consideration.

1292
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: Well, he bought a trophy. I thought he wanted to

1293
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 1: help the business, and it turns out he just wanted

1294
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 1: a trophy. And then suddenly it wasn't cool to own

1295
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 1: the trophy, and he was like, oh shit, I either

1296
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: think he's here to the trophy or do I now

1297
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 1: just use it for my own benefit.

1298
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 2: And that's why he's using it as he uses his

1299
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 2: contract to do a biopic of Milania Trump. He uses

1300
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 2: it for lobbying. Although when he bought the trophy, I remember,

1301
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 2: I think it was a two hundred and fifty million

1302
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:17,520
Speaker 2: dollar purchase. Was that the price? I remember the Jacksonville

1303
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 2: Jaguars went for I think three seventy five, and I

1304
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,720
Speaker 2: remember thinking, what are we doing with society that the

1305
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 2: Jaguars are worth only one hundred and twenty five million more? Now,

1306
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 2: the Jaguars, like every NFL franchise, is probably worth a

1307
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 2: billion in the post, could be sold for parts. I

1308
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 2: keep Meghan.

1309
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 1: I remember there's only thirty two trophies available in the NFL, right,

1310
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 1: even the least valuable trophies, probably a five billion dollar

1311
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: trophy now.

1312
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, five billion. Yeah.

1313
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 1: So let's talk about AI, because you know, I bet

1314
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 1: I can vacillate. I am. I am a long term

1315
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 1: AI optimist, meaning I'm betting on human beings that we're

1316
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 1: not We're a species that has survived quite a bit

1317
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 1: over a million years and we're not going to let

1318
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:11,799
Speaker 1: robots replace us. So I am, but I am mindful

1319
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,720
Speaker 1: that the transition is going to be quite painful, and

1320
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 1: I do think that increasingly. The next three years are

1321
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 1: going to be about fear of AI displacement, even though

1322
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 1: again I think, you know, we'll, we'll probably. My guess

1323
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:28,879
Speaker 1: is the fear is a little too soon. Like anything,

1324
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 1: it's probably coming sooner than we should actually be fearing it.

1325
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 1: But that's how I try to comfort myself and how

1326
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: I remain optimistic in the long run about AI, even

1327
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 1: though this is going to be extraordinarily disruptive in the moment.

1328
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: Where's your head on this?

1329
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:47,599
Speaker 2: There was just a pull out that showed a huge

1330
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:52,680
Speaker 2: decline in optimism or even excitement about AI. They expect,

1331
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:55,680
Speaker 2: I mean, the vast majority of people expect AI to

1332
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 2: harm human abilities by twenty thirty five.

1333
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: Do you blame them thinking that? By the way, no,

1334
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 1: given what social media, given what the tech companies did

1335
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:06,600
Speaker 1: to us with social media.

1336
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:12,799
Speaker 2: Right people. And also science fiction and our storytelling plays

1337
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 2: a role, and so there's I'd say the ratio of

1338
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 2: dystopian to utopian science fiction is something like one hundred

1339
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 2: to one. It's more easy to tell stories about destruction,

1340
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 2: although Star Trek is utopian science fiction. So you know,

1341
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 2: our mind goes to threats. The reason that we are

1342
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 2: here as the people who've evolved over a million years

1343
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 2: is because we understand threats, right. We evolve from the

1344
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 2: people who were best position to understand the threats and

1345
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 2: flee the sabertooth tiger, whereas our would be ancestors who

1346
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 2: were like, no big deal, they got eaten. They didn't

1347
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:47,479
Speaker 2: get to reproduce that. All that said, there are three

1348
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 2: camps with AI. The accelerationists who say, bring it on,

1349
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 2: it's going to change humanity. A lot of them have

1350
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 2: money involved, right. The doomers, who some prominent people who

1351
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 2: could have made a lot of money with AI, give

1352
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 2: it a twenty percent chance of killing us all one day.

1353
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 2: There are a couple prominent people give it a ninety

1354
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 2: eight percent chance. Then in between, and this is a

1355
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:12,639
Speaker 2: phrase invented by my friend Andy Mills, who just made

1356
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 2: a good podcast, great podcast about this called the Last

1357
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 2: Invention the Scouts. And this is where I am, which

1358
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 2: is pay attention, don't be afraid, be very afraid, but

1359
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:28,720
Speaker 2: understand the transformative power of this. When Sam Aaltman testified,

1360
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 2: maybe you remember in twenty twenty three, he was greeted,

1361
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 2: he shocked the Senate Commerce Committee because he said, yes,

1362
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 2: please regulate me and this was a message that they

1363
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 2: wanted to hear. That was a message I wanted to hear.

1364
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:46,520
Speaker 2: It was refreshing and unusual for a captain of industry

1365
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 2: to ask for regulation. Cut to two years later, the

1366
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 2: big concern is China, and he said, well, I don't

1367
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 2: know about all this regulation. We've got to beat China.

1368
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 2: So what changed? Was it just China? Was it Samman?

1369
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:02,799
Speaker 2: In both cases trying to play cat or meet Congress

1370
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 2: where it was. I'm definitely not a doomer. I think

1371
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 2: it can be totally transformative, especially when it reaches what's

1372
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:17,800
Speaker 2: called artificial general intelligence. This is the computers teaching themselves

1373
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 2: and accelerating and accelerating. But man, do we need more

1374
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 2: visibility into how it works? And I'll add this, they

1375
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 2: don't even know how it works. The people who program AI,

1376
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:31,920
Speaker 2: who invented AI will tell you, Ye, it's kind of

1377
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 2: a black box and we can't exactly pick it apart

1378
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,560
Speaker 2: and tell you why it did that, not just beforehand,

1379
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 2: but even afterwards. And that is legitimately.

1380
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 1: Scary, No, it is, especially when we realize that also

1381
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:50,679
Speaker 1: we're I mean, we've not had the correct generation matched

1382
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:57,479
Speaker 1: with the technological regulatory demands that we've had. Right when

1383
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 1: the Internet first came along, we had a whole bunch

1384
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 1: of people that were very analogue right by the time

1385
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:03,440
Speaker 1: social media.

1386
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:05,960
Speaker 2: Came at, saying the Internet was a system of tubes.

1387
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:08,760
Speaker 1: Right, and then you go to you know, as we

1388
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 1: go to social media, you have people that are still

1389
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to use email with their

1390
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 1: Aol dot com. You know, they're still figuring out text.

1391
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:18,519
Speaker 1: By the time we've got an AI, you have people

1392
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 1: that are still just now getting comfortable with the iPhone premise. Right.

1393
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 1: So that's that's what's scary, is that the people we

1394
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 1: elect to be the watchers may not are probably not

1395
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 1: qualified to know what to watch for. Yeah, even if

1396
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: adds to the concern.

1397
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 2: Right, and even if they were, I mean, some of

1398
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 2: these people have backgrounds in the extractive industries. They don't

1399
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:46,439
Speaker 2: seem too keen on regulating them. There is a Congress

1400
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 2: doesn't seem keen on being Congress. You know, even Nancy

1401
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 2: Mace is writing op ads what is Congress for? They've

1402
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:57,599
Speaker 2: willingly abdicated their regulative responsibilities. One of the things though,

1403
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:00,400
Speaker 2: that gives me pause. I have great hope for it,

1404
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 2: and I always think even with the Internet, I'm more

1405
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 2: in favor of it than opposed. I owe my life

1406
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 2: to the idea of podcasting. Otherwise, you know, I wouldn't

1407
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 2: be able to get my voice outside wherever a radio

1408
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:15,680
Speaker 2: tower would take me. Maybe satellites would exist. But I

1409
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 2: look at the history of big innovations, and there's always

1410
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:23,679
Speaker 2: the doomer. There's always the person who's an expert, who

1411
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:26,519
Speaker 2: gets a lot of attention, because, like I said, our

1412
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 2: minds go towards, well, what's the worst thing that can happen.

1413
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 2: And at one point it was this guy named King

1414
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:35,639
Speaker 2: Hubbert who predicted peak oil. And he was an expert.

1415
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:38,559
Speaker 2: He worked for Shell. He had many people with their

1416
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:43,599
Speaker 2: colorful charts written in you know, nineteen nineties fonts, We're

1417
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:45,559
Speaker 2: gonna run out of oil. That was a big concern.

1418
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 2: I think cuts it Today. A lot of environmentalists would say,

1419
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 2: thank god, we're going to run out of oil. But

1420
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:52,599
Speaker 2: we're not going to run out of oil. Shell gets invented,

1421
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:56,559
Speaker 2: fracking gets invented. Paul Erlik, who is the most frequent

1422
01:21:56,640 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 2: guest on Johnny Carson, wrote the population bomb. It seems lausible,

1423
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 2: we're going to outstrip our means of production. So throughout history,

1424
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 2: Greta Tuneberg, throughout history, there have always been these doomers.

1425
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:11,559
Speaker 2: It's a long tradition of dumers. I'm not even talking about,

1426
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 2: you know, the people who said that the hell Bop

1427
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:15,360
Speaker 2: commet was going to So.

1428
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 1: I guess Jeffrey Hinton would be the AI doomer in

1429
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:20,639
Speaker 1: this case, right, isn't he the inventor who says, be weary?

1430
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 2: Right if there s a twenty percent chance? But there

1431
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:25,920
Speaker 2: are for every hint in there is one hundred people.

1432
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:28,800
Speaker 2: Many of them have their fortunes tied to AI. But

1433
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 2: I'll tell you something else I learned from Andy series,

1434
01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 2: The Last Invention. Many of the people working in the

1435
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 2: companies are not doomers, but they're really worried, and they

1436
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 2: say to themselves. Maybe they don't say I'm a genius,

1437
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 2: they're geniuses. They're good at this, and they're involved in

1438
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:49,080
Speaker 2: the work with the knowledge that if it goes wrong,

1439
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 2: it could go very very wrong in a way that

1440
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:55,720
Speaker 2: goes way beyond, you know, replacing menial labor and not

1441
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 2: having some substitute for that, it could I'm not saying

1442
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 2: death of yourn, but maybe they are. So there are

1443
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 2: a lot of people within the industry who don't want

1444
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:07,519
Speaker 2: the industry just to go off the rails. I don't know,

1445
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 2: Maybe you can make an analogy. I don't know the

1446
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 2: people who work in bioweapons research. I would assume a

1447
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 2: lot of them think the same thing, and every once

1448
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 2: in a while bad stuff happens there too.

1449
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 1: There's one phenomenon that I'm fascinated by that is taking

1450
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 1: place sort of simultaneously as we're having this sort of

1451
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 1: race towards AI, and that is it is the one

1452
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:34,280
Speaker 1: issue that unites left and right, which is should we

1453
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:36,400
Speaker 1: get this technology out of the schools?

1454
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1455
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:40,080
Speaker 1: I had a woman on from an organization that she

1456
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 1: founded called Mama Mothers Against Media Addiction, And it's not

1457
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: just about, you know, getting rid of phones and classrooms.

1458
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 1: It's also about should we stop hanging out iPads and

1459
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 1: laptops in schools? Right?

1460
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:54,600
Speaker 2: Like?

1461
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:55,000
Speaker 1: Do we?

1462
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:55,680
Speaker 2: You know?

1463
01:23:56,760 --> 01:24:02,200
Speaker 1: And boy, I'm pretty torn on this, yes, because on

1464
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 1: the one hand, I think we should evolve with technology.

1465
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 1: On the other hand, I understand the concerns and fears,

1466
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 1: and there's no doubt there's plenty of study on screen

1467
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:15,559
Speaker 1: time and what that's done. But does fear of screen

1468
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:19,679
Speaker 1: time in the social media aspect, mean you should toss

1469
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:23,720
Speaker 1: away all technology you know in the classroom, and that's

1470
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 1: where that's where I get concerned. But what I find

1471
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:30,600
Speaker 1: fascinating is that we have a collective fear of what

1472
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:33,679
Speaker 1: our kids, of how our kids learn, and we're actually

1473
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 1: it seems like it's the one place where we think

1474
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 1: we can try and do something about it where there's

1475
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 1: almost like the least amount of political combat over too.

1476
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would remember, I remember the big issue

1477
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:52,519
Speaker 2: was the digital divide, the fear that not enough people

1478
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 2: would have technology.

1479
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 1: And now we're going the other way. We're like, no, no, no,

1480
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 1: we don't want it in the classroom. It's terrible.

1481
01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 2: So where I come down is just because there is

1482
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:04,680
Speaker 2: junk food doesn't mean there shouldn't be culinary schools. Just

1483
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 2: because there are bad Just because there is pornography doesn't

1484
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 2: mean we shouldn't teach art or figure drawing in school

1485
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:15,840
Speaker 2: or even knew drawing on the college level. So I

1486
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 2: definitely think that this is where the world is today.

1487
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 2: You have to there's always been panics about technology. I

1488
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:25,600
Speaker 2: don't know if this is a panic. There are legitimate concerns,

1489
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:29,920
Speaker 2: right the corruption of the Innocent was congressional hearings about

1490
01:25:30,120 --> 01:25:31,040
Speaker 2: comic books.

1491
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,479
Speaker 1: I do think that video games or Tipper Gore in

1492
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,160
Speaker 1: the music industry, I'm an have to remember when Twisted

1493
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:43,680
Speaker 1: Sister with something that our parents thought was warping the

1494
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 1: minds of people like myself.

1495
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:50,479
Speaker 2: Sure Dee Snyder testifying on Capitol Hill in his Twisted

1496
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 2: Sister Regelia did not wear a suit.

1497
01:25:52,720 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah we did.

1498
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 2: I also remember Blackie Lawless from a group called WASP,

1499
01:25:56,479 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 2: and I can't even quote on a podcast what his

1500
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,719
Speaker 2: big songs were. But yes, so this is a perennial.

1501
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 2: These are the tools that we use. I think a

1502
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 2: flat out ban would not serve our children well, especially

1503
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 2: as we compete against China in Singapore. But you know,

1504
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 2: we saw another version of this where the answer is

1505
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,960
Speaker 2: never just take off the guard rails and trust in technology.

1506
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 2: With the legalization of sports gambling, it has been a disaster.

1507
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 1: You went to the place I wanted to go because

1508
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:39,640
Speaker 1: I want to go to prediction markets here And what

1509
01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 1: CNN and call She are doing, which I think is

1510
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 1: I say this. I love gambling, Mike, I love football gambling.

1511
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:51,280
Speaker 1: I have also my own biases about what you should

1512
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:53,519
Speaker 1: be allowed to gamble on and what you're not allowed

1513
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:57,560
Speaker 1: to gamble on. For instance, I don't gamble on player props.

1514
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 1: You know why because I don't feel like it's an

1515
01:27:02,240 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 1: honest market because at the end of the day, you're

1516
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 1: relying on one person versus a team sport. Like I

1517
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:11,920
Speaker 1: don't like to bet on individual sports. I don't bet

1518
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 1: on tennis. I don't bet on golf because again, one person.

1519
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's it is known that tennis players just

1520
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 1: take an acceptance, you know, take an appearance fee and bail. Right,

1521
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:26,679
Speaker 1: That is just sort of how it works. And it's

1522
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:29,320
Speaker 1: like it's like betting on the NBA what players are

1523
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:33,080
Speaker 1: sitting out. You know, that's no You know, I enjoy

1524
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 1: betting on a team sport when I know there's maximum

1525
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:37,600
Speaker 1: effort and I know that it's really going to be

1526
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 1: about somewhat of a game of chance but also a

1527
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:46,240
Speaker 1: game of strategy. But you're right, keep going, it's interesting,

1528
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:47,439
Speaker 1: Bourn you out.

1529
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:50,640
Speaker 2: I mean, look at the NBA gambling scandal, Look at

1530
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:52,759
Speaker 2: the baseball gambling scandal.

1531
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Where why is this offered? Why are you allowed to

1532
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:57,679
Speaker 1: bet on the first pitch?

1533
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, an e manual class, say can throw the ball

1534
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 2: directly into the dirt and think he's going to get

1535
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 2: away from with something.

1536
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:06,800
Speaker 1: And think about this, right, these guys, some of them,

1537
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 1: Let's say you come from a community that didn't have

1538
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:12,240
Speaker 1: a lot of money. You don't have enough to throw

1539
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:14,439
Speaker 1: money around to them, but you want to throw them

1540
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 1: a bone, all right. You know, I see how these

1541
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:20,720
Speaker 1: individual players rationalize it. I'm just trying to help on

1542
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 1: my pials. I want to help them make a couple

1543
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:25,599
Speaker 1: of bucks. This is something I can do for them,

1544
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:28,519
Speaker 1: No harm, no foul, Right, that's I really think that's

1545
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:29,280
Speaker 1: the rationalization.

1546
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 2: And yeah, the idea was that the gigantic salaries played

1547
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 2: to paid to these players would protect or indemnify them

1548
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:41,320
Speaker 2: from ever being tempted. However, at the same time people

1549
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:43,840
Speaker 2: were making these arguments and believing it, they weren't just

1550
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:47,400
Speaker 2: self motivating. Yeah, we also know about the gigantic rates

1551
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:51,280
Speaker 2: of bankruptcy among professional athletes. They don't always take care

1552
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 2: of their money so well, so you have guys like

1553
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:56,639
Speaker 2: Johntay Porter in the NBA who apparently owed a lot

1554
01:28:56,680 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 2: of money to a lot of people, and so all

1555
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:02,000
Speaker 2: he has to do is claim an injury, take himself

1556
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:05,080
Speaker 2: out of a game, and then everyone who bet the unders,

1557
01:29:05,160 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 2: which for the audience, I'm sure you know, it's if

1558
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:09,880
Speaker 2: you think he's going to get less than four rebounds

1559
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:12,680
Speaker 2: or less than three assists or whatever the statistic is.

1560
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 2: If you fake an injury, you're definitely going to get

1561
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 2: less than that. He has been thrown out of basketball.

1562
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:21,160
Speaker 2: Terry Rogier is another one who's on the hook. There's

1563
01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 2: the separate gambling scandal with this is so fascinating. The

1564
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:29,960
Speaker 2: mafia and and some coaches and poka gigs that can

1565
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:33,400
Speaker 2: be read with essentially X ray vision. But yeah, the

1566
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 2: prop bets, now, I think that the form of let's

1567
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:40,320
Speaker 2: just get rid of these silly little prop bets that

1568
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:44,519
Speaker 2: we're not making that much money on that is that's

1569
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:48,200
Speaker 2: the deminimus that they have to do. The real problem

1570
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:51,599
Speaker 2: with sports gambling or gambling on the phones isn't even

1571
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 2: sports gambling or gambling on games where a lot of

1572
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:59,920
Speaker 2: millionaires have a stake. There are you can still gamble

1573
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:03,559
Speaker 2: college games where even though kids are paid the nil money,

1574
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 2: it's not that much. And there are a lot of

1575
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 2: very very low level Division one games that were clearly

1576
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:13,680
Speaker 2: thrown a couple of years ago, and some enforcement though

1577
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:17,040
Speaker 2: not criminals been brought against players on I think Mississippi

1578
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:20,479
Speaker 2: Valley State and some other schools. The huge problem there's

1579
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 2: been a lot of good reporting on this is the

1580
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 2: online casinos on phones and this is we maybe you

1581
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 2: and I focus on sports gambling. This is just sad

1582
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:34,440
Speaker 2: and should never been allowed. And you have home Healthcare

1583
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:39,240
Speaker 2: AIDS losing fifteen thousand dollars because they're constantly betting slot machines.

1584
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 2: And if you look at the amount of revenue that

1585
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:46,360
Speaker 2: the states have taken in sports, some of them didn't

1586
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:48,720
Speaker 2: make good deals with the sports companies. And by the way,

1587
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:52,320
Speaker 2: a lot of these sites maybe not Fan Duel and DraftKings,

1588
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:54,679
Speaker 2: but a lot of these other sites are not making

1589
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:57,640
Speaker 2: anywhere near the money. And they thought they would on

1590
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 2: sports gambling. But if you look at the casino gambling,

1591
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 2: it's just a roundabout means of addiction. Now on Calshi,

1592
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:07,400
Speaker 2: we thought we were talking about the prop bets. What

1593
01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:10,639
Speaker 2: about this prop bet? I have my calshilp app open.

1594
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can see it. Who will

1595
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 2: be the first member of Trump's cabinet to leave? Now?

1596
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 2: My update is since that Vanity Fair piece came out,

1597
01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:23,519
Speaker 2: rocket Yeah, but.

1598
01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:26,280
Speaker 1: Then you know, well, it's what's funny about the prediction markets.

1599
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:30,559
Speaker 1: It's like, look, I am, I'm trying to keep an

1600
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:34,640
Speaker 1: open mind about the prediction markets. We used to call

1601
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 1: the prediction markets the stock market, but I'll set that

1602
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: aside here a minute. Like I would argue that that

1603
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:41,840
Speaker 1: kind of served as the prediction markets at least when

1604
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 1: it came to nonsports events, right, certain stocks went up

1605
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:49,160
Speaker 1: or down based on oh, the economy. Economic numbers are

1606
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:53,679
Speaker 1: based on oh, like remember when when ozepic first took off.

1607
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,840
Speaker 1: Suddenly what didn't freedom lays stock collapse or something like,

1608
01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:59,919
Speaker 1: you know, oh, no, nobody's gonna nobody's gonna eat snacks anymore.

1609
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:04,120
Speaker 1: Snacking is dead, you know, or good luck with Edmans,

1610
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:08,240
Speaker 1: like that's a brand that might disappear with everybody taking zempic.

1611
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:15,599
Speaker 1: But it's the it's it's the fact that CNN signed

1612
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:19,800
Speaker 1: to deal with cal Shei like incorporating Like is it

1613
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 1: what does this fact tell you about Susie wilds Now

1614
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:27,760
Speaker 1: being at the top of this prediction market. Is it

1615
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 1: just a whole bunch of people wanting to react to

1616
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 1: something that happened in the news, or is there somebody

1617
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 1: with insider information right now during I will, I will confess.

1618
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:44,880
Speaker 1: So I made my first Calshy trade the morning of

1619
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:49,559
Speaker 1: the college football playoff show. I'm a University of Miami guy,

1620
01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:54,040
Speaker 1: and I was curious to see if things were going

1621
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:57,480
Speaker 1: to leak the way the Pope, not the Pope, the

1622
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:00,320
Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize leaked, and all of a sudden, the

1623
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:04,559
Speaker 1: prediction market spiked for Machado, and you're like, oh, what's

1624
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:07,320
Speaker 1: that about. Somebody must know something right here was somebody

1625
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:10,280
Speaker 1: that didn't have any other reason to spike it. So

1626
01:33:10,360 --> 01:33:12,920
Speaker 1: I was curious to see, and I was watching, and

1627
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:15,559
Speaker 1: I literally did it to see if it would leak.

1628
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,120
Speaker 1: Now it turned out it didn't leak. Miami's number was

1629
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:21,200
Speaker 1: fluctuating up and down somewhere between. It got as low

1630
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:24,240
Speaker 1: as six, got as high as thirty eight, But it

1631
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:28,840
Speaker 1: was in the range of what was what would you

1632
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:32,800
Speaker 1: would expect if people didn't know the outcome, okay where

1633
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:36,559
Speaker 1: they were trying to project, rather than there wasn't anything.

1634
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:38,640
Speaker 1: But that's why I did it. I didn't do it

1635
01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:42,240
Speaker 1: because I thought I did it because I thought somebody

1636
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 1: might know the answer. I didn't do it because I

1637
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:48,560
Speaker 1: thought crowdsourcing was going to tell me what the answer.

1638
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:54,000
Speaker 2: Was, right, I do it because I like to bet

1639
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:57,920
Speaker 2: eleven dollars on the Jets while they're losing, to give

1640
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 2: myself somebody enjoyment of the game. My average bed is

1641
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:04,400
Speaker 2: like six dollars, so you don't have to worry about me.

1642
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 2: But the same thing happened with the Time Person of

1643
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:13,280
Speaker 2: the Year whenever it's a non random outcome, and who

1644
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:15,679
Speaker 2: will make the college football playoffs. But that's a well

1645
01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:18,880
Speaker 2: guarded outcome, the sort of outcome that someone would get

1646
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:22,519
Speaker 2: fired if at Leaf they leaked in I don't know

1647
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:25,320
Speaker 2: if Vanity Fair or Time magazine, but if you were

1648
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:27,840
Speaker 2: a copy editor at Vanity Fair and you knew about

1649
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:30,519
Speaker 2: this market, you knew this Susie Wild piece, don't you.

1650
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 1: Buy Susie wildstock yesterday?

1651
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:33,519
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah?

1652
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:34,840
Speaker 1: And then you sell it now?

1653
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:35,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1654
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:39,240
Speaker 1: Right right, That's what you're doing is that's insider trading.

1655
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:45,760
Speaker 1: And that's where, ultimately, I don't know how you can guarantee,

1656
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, other than are we going to have apply

1657
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:50,680
Speaker 1: insider trading rules to copy editors now in the same

1658
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 1: way we apply insider trading rules to people that work it,

1659
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:55,040
Speaker 1: say it JB.

1660
01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:57,839
Speaker 2: Moore thing, can you articulate a difference?

1661
01:34:58,680 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 1: I can't. That's my point.

1662
01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:02,320
Speaker 2: Market with material information that the PO.

1663
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:05,080
Speaker 1: Do we have enough to do. We have enough regulators

1664
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 1: to keep track of all this.

1665
01:35:06,280 --> 01:35:09,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. To me, the big concern this is a concern.

1666
01:35:09,600 --> 01:35:12,720
Speaker 2: You articulated a concern. The other big concern is when

1667
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:15,960
Speaker 2: you look at sports coverage and now that all the

1668
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 2: sport although ESPN has gotten out of it, most of

1669
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:22,160
Speaker 2: the networks are in bed with this or.

1670
01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:23,920
Speaker 1: That they didn't get out of it. They just read

1671
01:35:24,040 --> 01:35:26,519
Speaker 1: they just did their deal with DraftKings.

1672
01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:28,479
Speaker 2: Right, it's shake got out of it in terms of

1673
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:30,560
Speaker 2: it's not ESPN bets.

1674
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:33,040
Speaker 1: Sure, but they're doing it's no, I mean, you know,

1675
01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:36,000
Speaker 1: they're just they just took a bigger check from DraftKings.

1676
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 2: Right. So now it really affects the coverage. And maybe

1677
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 2: you can make the case that CNN could just take

1678
01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 2: some hail Mary's to borrow football term and it's not

1679
01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:49,280
Speaker 2: like their coverage will affect ratings on the downside that much.

1680
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:52,479
Speaker 2: But it does affect the coverage, and it gears the

1681
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:56,240
Speaker 2: coverage towards the relatively few people who really care about

1682
01:35:56,280 --> 01:35:58,639
Speaker 2: this stuff. And even if you do care about sports

1683
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:03,439
Speaker 2: gambling in general? Do you really care in the start

1684
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:07,080
Speaker 2: of the fourth quarter when they flash what fan Duel says,

1685
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:07,800
Speaker 2: the Knicks all.

1686
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:12,040
Speaker 1: My gods winning It Just really I find that's so annoying.

1687
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:14,679
Speaker 1: Do you know why I watched? In fact, this gets

1688
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:19,360
Speaker 1: it to my frustration with the college football playoff, with

1689
01:36:19,439 --> 01:36:21,960
Speaker 1: the idea of the subjective committee, where you're like, hey,

1690
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:25,040
Speaker 1: give me what the statistically best teams are. When I'm like,

1691
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:27,960
Speaker 1: I've said this to various people who are sports fans,

1692
01:36:27,960 --> 01:36:30,240
Speaker 1: and I'll ask you the question, min do you watch

1693
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 1: sports to see the most probable outcomes happen? Or do

1694
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:37,479
Speaker 1: you watch it enjoy sports because every once in a

1695
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:41,200
Speaker 1: while there's an improbable result and you're like, wow. My

1696
01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:44,200
Speaker 1: son will tell you why is he a college football fan?

1697
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 1: Because the first college football memory he has was from

1698
01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:50,960
Speaker 1: watching my wife and I go crazy over the kick

1699
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 1: six the Auburn Alabama game where he kicks a few

1700
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:56,160
Speaker 1: where it attempts the field goal and the guy runs

1701
01:36:56,160 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 1: it back to when the You're like, oh my god,

1702
01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:03,240
Speaker 1: I've never seen a game end like that. Unbelievable. Alabama

1703
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:05,720
Speaker 1: was the better football team. Alabama always is the better

1704
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:08,280
Speaker 1: football team. Nine times out of ten, Alabama wins that game.

1705
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:10,559
Speaker 1: So why do we bother playing the games? Because we're

1706
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:12,680
Speaker 1: kind of we're kind of curious to see if the

1707
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 1: improbable happens, which is why when they do stupid things

1708
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:17,920
Speaker 1: like lee Florida State out a couple of years ago,

1709
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:21,880
Speaker 1: you're like, you're actually taking away the opportunity for a

1710
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:24,679
Speaker 1: sports movie. Which, Oh, by the way, what do we love.

1711
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,439
Speaker 1: We love a good sports movie. We love a grandpa

1712
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:30,439
Speaker 1: that takes a snap in an NFL game. That's pretty interesting.

1713
01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:31,639
Speaker 1: I kind of want to see that.

1714
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:33,639
Speaker 2: Right, like Mule the kicks a field goal?

1715
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:38,120
Speaker 1: Hey, I know that movie. I know exactly the one

1716
01:37:38,120 --> 01:37:41,920
Speaker 1: you're talking about. The god I forget was what the

1717
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:43,360
Speaker 1: name of it was? The Donkey.

1718
01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:47,000
Speaker 2: It was not Gladys the kicking Mule. It was yeah,

1719
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:48,200
Speaker 2: it'll hit me someone.

1720
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:50,759
Speaker 1: That's a don Knots, Right, wasn't like coach don Knots.

1721
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he made a sound like whoosh every time

1722
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:56,840
Speaker 2: he kicked. Oh what do you think of James Madison

1723
01:37:57,000 --> 01:38:02,320
Speaker 2: and Tulane both in the college football playoff but not

1724
01:38:02,320 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 2: Notre Dame.

1725
01:38:04,479 --> 01:38:06,760
Speaker 1: So I'm of two minds, right, I want the center

1726
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:08,720
Speaker 1: and I know this is what and I this is

1727
01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:11,439
Speaker 1: where I wish college football had a commissioner, because I

1728
01:38:11,479 --> 01:38:15,880
Speaker 1: think the conferences, nobody that leads a conference or an

1729
01:38:15,880 --> 01:38:18,719
Speaker 1: athletic director has the best interests of the entire game

1730
01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:22,160
Speaker 1: in mind. Right, there is no what's best for college football.

1731
01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:26,240
Speaker 1: It is great for college football. If there's an opportunity

1732
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:28,960
Speaker 1: for a Cinderella, we want to. You know, it was

1733
01:38:29,040 --> 01:38:30,960
Speaker 1: great to see George Mason make that run to the

1734
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:34,240
Speaker 1: final four, right, that was really cool. It was awesome

1735
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:36,439
Speaker 1: when Butler got to the end the final of the

1736
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:40,120
Speaker 1: NCAA tournament, Right, that was something we were curious about.

1737
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:42,439
Speaker 1: That was great. And yet we also want to see

1738
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:45,240
Speaker 1: Kentucky in North Carolina or Kentucky and Duke because that's

1739
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:49,840
Speaker 1: awesome too. So I get the need for that. I

1740
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:52,280
Speaker 1: do think people don't realize and the coverage of college

1741
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:56,160
Speaker 1: football is terrible. The reason they had to do that

1742
01:38:56,280 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 1: is they were preventing a lawsuit from the other conferences

1743
01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:03,680
Speaker 1: from basically, you know, they can't legally keep these other

1744
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:06,320
Speaker 1: They had to give a pathway to prevent a lawsuit

1745
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 1: from all these group of five conferences. Who would have

1746
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 1: said that the big four schools in ESPN were essentially

1747
01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 1: violating you know, violate. We're a monopoly, right, violating antitrust.

1748
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:22,599
Speaker 1: So that's why it exists. And they had to put

1749
01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:24,800
Speaker 1: the rules in wrote the rules the way they did it,

1750
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,120
Speaker 1: that was a lawyer telling them, well, you need to

1751
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:31,280
Speaker 1: at least give the group of five conferences a chance

1752
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:33,960
Speaker 1: that hey, if your champion is in the top five

1753
01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:37,559
Speaker 1: of all champions, right then then you can say no, no, no,

1754
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:43,960
Speaker 1: we're not blocking them out of it. I'd personally like

1755
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:47,000
Speaker 1: to see a group of five playoff, like you take

1756
01:39:47,080 --> 01:39:50,719
Speaker 1: the four top group of five conferences and they play,

1757
01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, they play a little mini tournament and the

1758
01:39:54,160 --> 01:39:56,559
Speaker 1: winner gets to come in. It's actually how the NIT

1759
01:39:56,640 --> 01:39:59,440
Speaker 1: and the NCAA used to work way back in the fifties.

1760
01:40:00,360 --> 01:40:04,040
Speaker 1: There's one school that has that has won both the

1761
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:05,920
Speaker 1: n T and the NCAA in the same year. Do

1762
01:40:05,960 --> 01:40:06,519
Speaker 1: you know the name?

1763
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:08,120
Speaker 2: City College of New York.

1764
01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:09,080
Speaker 1: I knew you would know.

1765
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:10,400
Speaker 2: It's so very interesting.

1766
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:12,400
Speaker 1: You're one of the few guests I could have that

1767
01:40:12,439 --> 01:40:14,920
Speaker 1: would be like, he knows more minutia than I do,

1768
01:40:15,080 --> 01:40:18,960
Speaker 1: and it's you do you know their nickname? The Cooney nickname?

1769
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:21,680
Speaker 2: I do not think. I think they were the Beavers.

1770
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:25,440
Speaker 2: But I'm going to check that. So here's where I disagree.

1771
01:40:26,760 --> 01:40:29,280
Speaker 2: Your analysis was right. You set the stage, you laid

1772
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:32,320
Speaker 2: the predictor correctly. I don't think you want both James

1773
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:33,479
Speaker 2: Madison and tu Lane in.

1774
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:34,759
Speaker 1: By the way, you don't want one.

1775
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, my son's a freshman at Tulane. I was never

1776
01:40:37,720 --> 01:40:40,160
Speaker 2: a college football fan. I got so into them this year.

1777
01:40:40,320 --> 01:40:41,519
Speaker 2: He stormed the field.

1778
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:44,400
Speaker 1: It's fun. Oh, my son's a freshman at SMU. I

1779
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:47,360
Speaker 1: was at the goddamn Miami SMU game where he did

1780
01:40:47,400 --> 01:40:50,320
Speaker 1: what storm the field? So yes, my son stormed the

1781
01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:51,599
Speaker 1: field on a Miami game.

1782
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:54,519
Speaker 2: I do I do think the analogy between you want

1783
01:40:54,600 --> 01:40:57,200
Speaker 2: George Mason or Butler to make it. Those schools were

1784
01:40:57,360 --> 01:41:01,400
Speaker 2: legitimately better, and not only does the record show they

1785
01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:04,120
Speaker 2: could hold their own against the power schools. You know

1786
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:06,680
Speaker 2: in the final where I was there was covering a

1787
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 2: f endpr the best player in that Duke Butler game

1788
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:14,120
Speaker 2: was Gordon Hayward of Butler. So that is not the

1789
01:41:14,160 --> 01:41:17,800
Speaker 2: case with Tulane and James Madison. Those schools, I don't know.

1790
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:19,160
Speaker 2: Maybe tou Lane is a chance.

1791
01:41:19,400 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 1: Tulane is I would look at least Tulane played a

1792
01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:26,760
Speaker 1: couple of power for schools, right, They played Duke and

1793
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:30,160
Speaker 1: they played Old Miss right, Like you know, they're put

1794
01:41:30,160 --> 01:41:33,080
Speaker 1: it this way, when the ACC breaks up, they're going

1795
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 1: to become a member of whatever's left of the ACC. Yeah,

1796
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:38,840
Speaker 1: they're the next, They're the next. They're sort of next

1797
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:42,519
Speaker 1: in line, right, Tulane and Memphis are probably in ut

1798
01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:45,920
Speaker 1: San Antonio or probably the next three schools to get

1799
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:48,679
Speaker 1: the call up into the Power for if there's room.

1800
01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:51,360
Speaker 2: For more road runners. So yes, well I can.

1801
01:41:51,400 --> 01:41:56,360
Speaker 1: Oh, oh absolutely. I don't think people between UTSA and

1802
01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 1: USF by South Florida being the other one. These are

1803
01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:02,679
Speaker 1: schools that basically have been created by the population booms

1804
01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:05,160
Speaker 1: of those two states over the last thirty years. Where

1805
01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:09,439
Speaker 1: these are commuter schools and now they're just substantials in

1806
01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 1: state universities.

1807
01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:17,400
Speaker 2: TSA B Tulane quite handily this year. So I can't confirm.

1808
01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:21,000
Speaker 2: The City College of New York's are the Beavers. Their

1809
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:24,639
Speaker 2: mascot is Benny the Beaver. And I will also give

1810
01:42:24,680 --> 01:42:28,200
Speaker 2: you this, do you know what other prominent though Division

1811
01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:31,320
Speaker 2: three school is nicknamed the Beavers? Division one would be

1812
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:34,960
Speaker 2: Oregon State State, right which Division three And I'll give

1813
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:37,559
Speaker 2: you a hint. The reason they're the beavers is that

1814
01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:39,800
Speaker 2: the beaver is nature's engineer.

1815
01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:49,280
Speaker 1: The beaver is nature's engineer. Interesting is it? Mit, that's

1816
01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:50,479
Speaker 1: excellent work?

1817
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:51,120
Speaker 2: Correct?

1818
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:51,719
Speaker 1: Okay?

1819
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:53,040
Speaker 2: Mit? Beavers?

1820
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:57,519
Speaker 1: That is that feels like that feels like an idea

1821
01:42:57,560 --> 01:42:59,760
Speaker 1: they came up with, Hey, what's a good reason for

1822
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:02,799
Speaker 1: us to have beavers? That isn't what we what everybody's

1823
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:07,280
Speaker 1: going to assume? What could we what could we actually?

1824
01:43:07,320 --> 01:43:10,960
Speaker 1: What can we say that would be plausibly an explanation?

1825
01:43:11,240 --> 01:43:11,439
Speaker 1: You know?

1826
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:14,000
Speaker 2: I mean and when they when they face the Presbyterian

1827
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:14,679
Speaker 2: blue hose.

1828
01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:20,280
Speaker 1: H all right, let me so prediction markets are you?

1829
01:43:22,479 --> 01:43:24,240
Speaker 1: Do you think they will be legal? Or do you

1830
01:43:24,280 --> 01:43:28,439
Speaker 1: think we will when we have a sober up moment

1831
01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:32,960
Speaker 1: on sports gambling that the prediction markets are in trouble too.

1832
01:43:34,160 --> 01:43:37,200
Speaker 2: They shouldn't be legal. I don't mean normatively, I mean

1833
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:41,719
Speaker 2: according to the law there. Their reason for not being

1834
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:45,520
Speaker 2: the reason for being legal is something other than entertainment.

1835
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:49,280
Speaker 2: Is that they try to make the case that they're

1836
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:52,880
Speaker 2: like more like a commodities market. Uh, there is no

1837
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:56,320
Speaker 2: viig so that's something in their favor. But I don't

1838
01:43:56,360 --> 01:44:01,120
Speaker 2: know who's playing what commodity, or what business is benefiting

1839
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:04,360
Speaker 2: from the existence of a prediction market. Maybe you could say,

1840
01:44:04,720 --> 01:44:08,320
Speaker 2: if you're the if you're the sports bar in Kansas

1841
01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:11,280
Speaker 2: City and you bet against the Chiefs to make the

1842
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:14,320
Speaker 2: playoffs because you know it's going to impact business in January,

1843
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:17,599
Speaker 2: and that's a hedge. But that is so far fetched.

1844
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:20,599
Speaker 2: So as I look at the law, it doesn't seem

1845
01:44:20,720 --> 01:44:25,440
Speaker 2: that they have a better case to not be regulated

1846
01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:28,840
Speaker 2: than any traditional sports books. And it's not the big

1847
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:31,880
Speaker 2: isn't the big or the you know, cut and percent

1848
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:33,280
Speaker 2: isn't the big reason there?

1849
01:44:33,960 --> 01:44:35,360
Speaker 1: You know, let me get you out of here on

1850
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:40,280
Speaker 1: the following. It's sort of a historical fact that I'm

1851
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:45,320
Speaker 1: curious if you'll turn into a prediction. Ever since the

1852
01:44:45,400 --> 01:44:47,479
Speaker 1: end of the pandemic, I've had a different view of

1853
01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:52,840
Speaker 1: prohibition because you now realize how did prohibitions start. You know,

1854
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:55,800
Speaker 1: it always had a small group of people arguing to

1855
01:44:55,920 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 1: ban alcohol. Right that you watch the TV show guilded Ay, Right,

1856
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:04,559
Speaker 1: Cynthia Nixon's character is actually holding meetings, right, the Temperance

1857
01:45:04,600 --> 01:45:07,920
Speaker 1: movement and all that stuff, But we don't actually do

1858
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:11,799
Speaker 1: it until just after the nineteen seventeen and eighteen pandemic,

1859
01:45:12,200 --> 01:45:15,559
Speaker 1: which tells me that like pandemics sort of make us

1860
01:45:15,560 --> 01:45:19,840
Speaker 1: do crazy things, right, we sort of we go to

1861
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:23,719
Speaker 1: our extremes, we do certain things, and within a decade

1862
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:29,760
Speaker 1: we decide, WHOA, this was a bad idea. Whether it's gambling,

1863
01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:34,120
Speaker 1: whether it's the legalization of marijuana. What's something that we've

1864
01:45:34,200 --> 01:45:39,760
Speaker 1: been letting happen right that we'll look back on and

1865
01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:42,680
Speaker 1: say in twenty five years and say, yeah, we ended that.

1866
01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:45,599
Speaker 1: After a decade experiment, we realized that's not good for society.

1867
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:49,440
Speaker 1: We sobered up. Is it sports gambling, is it marijuana?

1868
01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:52,240
Speaker 1: Is it something else?

1869
01:45:52,880 --> 01:45:56,240
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think the casino gambling there's just so little

1870
01:45:56,360 --> 01:46:00,519
Speaker 2: justification for it, and it's creating more victims that states

1871
01:46:00,560 --> 01:46:04,559
Speaker 2: have to take care of. So sports gambling, I don't know.

1872
01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:06,639
Speaker 2: I'm not willing to make that prediction, but I think

1873
01:46:06,720 --> 01:46:09,000
Speaker 2: being able to since only a few states allow it,

1874
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:11,920
Speaker 2: you know, bang slot machines on your phones, I do

1875
01:46:11,960 --> 01:46:16,400
Speaker 2: think that will end. I think another one is I

1876
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:19,280
Speaker 2: think there's going to be massive regulation of the nil

1877
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:23,920
Speaker 2: business because it's not a business and it doesn't help

1878
01:46:24,040 --> 01:46:26,679
Speaker 2: anyone everyone. You know, there are obviously a few people

1879
01:46:26,680 --> 01:46:29,920
Speaker 2: taking advantage of it, but they do. Why do big

1880
01:46:29,960 --> 01:46:33,760
Speaker 2: time college sports exist. It's it's the fan experience, right,

1881
01:46:33,880 --> 01:46:37,720
Speaker 2: It's not the student athletes. It's so schools can make

1882
01:46:37,760 --> 01:46:41,679
Speaker 2: money because the fans enjoy watching them. And I think

1883
01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:44,040
Speaker 2: it is getting in the way of the fan experience

1884
01:46:44,080 --> 01:46:47,840
Speaker 2: to some extent, so there's going to be major reformation there.

1885
01:46:48,120 --> 01:46:50,640
Speaker 2: I would also say that there's no reason just to

1886
01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:55,400
Speaker 2: pay kids for nil with their ability to go on Instagram,

1887
01:46:55,479 --> 01:47:03,280
Speaker 2: get hundreds of thousands of followers and just sell their advertising. Maybe.

1888
01:47:03,479 --> 01:47:06,920
Speaker 2: I've also always thought that puppy mills should be illegal,

1889
01:47:07,439 --> 01:47:10,160
Speaker 2: but that's not in the that that didn't happen recently.

1890
01:47:10,280 --> 01:47:15,320
Speaker 2: I see that trend maybe coming. But you know, prohibition

1891
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:18,800
Speaker 2: was a big progressive movement, wasn't it. It was said

1892
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:23,360
Speaker 2: to be a leap forward, and all the suffragists and

1893
01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:26,919
Speaker 2: all the people who were associated with the progressive causes

1894
01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:29,880
Speaker 2: were most in favor of it, and it turned out

1895
01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:32,519
Speaker 2: to be a mistake. So in that way, you know,

1896
01:47:32,640 --> 01:47:39,040
Speaker 2: marijuana legalization or whatever the extremely flawed rollout was, it

1897
01:47:39,080 --> 01:47:41,679
Speaker 2: reminds me of it. Though I don't see us going back.

1898
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:43,439
Speaker 2: I mean, I see I don't think it's.

1899
01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:46,400
Speaker 1: So on marijuana because we're not having there isn't you

1900
01:47:46,439 --> 01:47:48,760
Speaker 1: know it is It turns out that you know, it

1901
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:53,720
Speaker 1: isn't any more or less addictive than alcohol. And it

1902
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:59,080
Speaker 1: might be arguments that's slightly less addictive in alcohol. What's

1903
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:01,760
Speaker 1: not been true and you've die. You know, we don't

1904
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:04,880
Speaker 1: know yet that it really has. What benefits there are

1905
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:07,240
Speaker 1: there may be seems like almost none. It seems like

1906
01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:10,599
Speaker 1: there may be of killing benefits. I could see that,

1907
01:48:10,720 --> 01:48:11,000
Speaker 1: you know.

1908
01:48:12,560 --> 01:48:15,839
Speaker 2: Payment half people like maybe your rope is higher.

1909
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:18,720
Speaker 1: Well, I will say this, I've had two people in

1910
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:22,040
Speaker 1: my life with MS and they swear by it. They

1911
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:22,679
Speaker 1: swear by.

1912
01:48:22,600 --> 01:48:25,280
Speaker 2: It, but is there nothing else that they would There's

1913
01:48:25,320 --> 01:48:30,000
Speaker 2: nothing else that that allows them to Everything else makes

1914
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:32,400
Speaker 2: them too loopy or makes them too sick.

1915
01:48:32,840 --> 01:48:35,439
Speaker 1: Right Like, for whatever reason, weed is the right amount

1916
01:48:35,479 --> 01:48:38,160
Speaker 1: of it actually helps them with an appetite right when

1917
01:48:38,240 --> 01:48:42,479
Speaker 1: they need, and at the same time still doesn't totally

1918
01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:46,040
Speaker 1: fog up their brain. It's this fine line, right. I know,

1919
01:48:46,200 --> 01:48:47,680
Speaker 1: if you take too much weed, it can fog up

1920
01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:50,160
Speaker 1: your brain. But some of the the you know, the

1921
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:52,439
Speaker 1: painkillers you're getting from the from the pharmaceutical cover.

1922
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:55,320
Speaker 2: But I think the argument to the medical marijuana argument

1923
01:48:55,520 --> 01:48:59,080
Speaker 2: wasn't that the people with glaucoma or ms were lying.

1924
01:48:59,200 --> 01:49:01,400
Speaker 2: It was that every and claim to have back pain

1925
01:49:01,520 --> 01:49:04,840
Speaker 2: in order to qualify for medical arijuana. And so eventually

1926
01:49:04,880 --> 01:49:07,519
Speaker 2: the states just said let's just legalize marijuana. But they

1927
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:09,919
Speaker 2: didn't do it in the right way, and the rollout

1928
01:49:10,080 --> 01:49:13,280
Speaker 2: was done so inexactly. And this is where execution comes

1929
01:49:13,360 --> 01:49:17,320
Speaker 2: into effect, and this is where our state capacity. You know,

1930
01:49:17,400 --> 01:49:21,439
Speaker 2: what the abundance agenda and what Dunkleman wrote about about

1931
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:24,840
Speaker 2: why nothing works, like for all our arguments about this

1932
01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:27,679
Speaker 2: should or shouldn't be done, and what are the normative changes,

1933
01:49:27,880 --> 01:49:32,479
Speaker 2: whatever you decide, doing it well is as important as

1934
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:36,840
Speaker 2: just doing it. So there's a way to legalize marijuana

1935
01:49:36,880 --> 01:49:39,439
Speaker 2: where it works well. And I think there's probably a

1936
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:42,800
Speaker 2: way to get some version of the prediction markets work

1937
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:47,320
Speaker 2: that help more people than they hurt. I just I'm

1938
01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:51,800
Speaker 2: skeptical that our government is capable of that way in

1939
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five.

1940
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:55,240
Speaker 1: Well, here's the problem, right we I've always said, you know,

1941
01:49:55,880 --> 01:50:00,280
Speaker 1: I think being libertarian is in the DNA of Americans. Right,

1942
01:50:00,320 --> 01:50:01,920
Speaker 1: It's sort of like no, no, no, no. The whole point

1943
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:04,439
Speaker 1: of this country was no, no, no, We want to we

1944
01:50:04,479 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 1: want to decide for ourselves what religion we do, and

1945
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:08,960
Speaker 1: we want to decide for ourselves and all this stuff.

1946
01:50:10,160 --> 01:50:14,040
Speaker 1: But unfortunately when we make it, we're making a libertarian

1947
01:50:14,120 --> 01:50:17,040
Speaker 1: We're sort of following through a libertarian idea about, Hey,

1948
01:50:18,040 --> 01:50:19,840
Speaker 1: you smoke what you want to smoke, or you take

1949
01:50:19,880 --> 01:50:23,360
Speaker 1: what you want to take. But you do need a

1950
01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:28,360
Speaker 1: highly regulated delivery system, right in order to fulfill this

1951
01:50:28,479 --> 01:50:32,880
Speaker 1: libertarian demand, right, And that's I think the problem is

1952
01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:37,920
Speaker 1: that that's probably they just run into each other. Right. Our

1953
01:50:38,040 --> 01:50:41,400
Speaker 1: DNA is like a live and let live to a point,

1954
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:46,200
Speaker 1: but you kind of need a highly structured system in

1955
01:50:46,280 --> 01:50:48,800
Speaker 1: order to deliver this problem, or at least somewhat structured.

1956
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:52,919
Speaker 2: And the libertarians I know would not say they're against

1957
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:58,200
Speaker 2: liquor licenses. They're just against liquor licenses that are given

1958
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:03,120
Speaker 2: via corruption, are suppressed, or are given maybe even to anyone.

1959
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:07,200
Speaker 2: You know. Libertarians are always will also admit that their

1960
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:09,280
Speaker 2: arguments well I don't know they'll always admit it, but

1961
01:51:09,320 --> 01:51:11,880
Speaker 2: the honest ones will say, our arguments do tend to

1962
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:13,479
Speaker 2: fall apart when it comes to kids.

1963
01:51:16,920 --> 01:51:19,680
Speaker 1: Mike, I always enjoyed my conversations with you. Are you

1964
01:51:19,760 --> 01:51:23,120
Speaker 1: still you still read hard copies of things or are

1965
01:51:23,120 --> 01:51:23,839
Speaker 1: you all digital?

1966
01:51:24,520 --> 01:51:28,400
Speaker 2: I mean I could reach for like my it's all

1967
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:31,679
Speaker 2: it's all New Yorker in print and New York Times

1968
01:51:31,680 --> 01:51:32,959
Speaker 2: in print, and yes.

1969
01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:37,840
Speaker 1: Yes, because I miss remembering where I read something, and

1970
01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:40,040
Speaker 1: when I read everything on digital, when I read everything

1971
01:51:40,040 --> 01:51:44,240
Speaker 1: on the same machinery, it doesn't matter whether I'm reading

1972
01:51:44,240 --> 01:51:50,439
Speaker 1: The Atlantic, the Times, the Post, the gristlit it doesn't matter, right,

1973
01:51:50,640 --> 01:51:53,320
Speaker 1: it all looks the same. And I miss the being

1974
01:51:53,360 --> 01:51:55,719
Speaker 1: able to differentiate visually where I read stuff.

1975
01:51:55,720 --> 01:51:58,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was curious if I remember where on

1976
01:51:58,320 --> 01:52:01,639
Speaker 2: the page I read things, And that's like really important.

1977
01:52:01,680 --> 01:52:03,679
Speaker 2: And I keep some of these books behind me because

1978
01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:05,280
Speaker 2: I have to get to them and I will be

1979
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:07,439
Speaker 2: doing the interviews. But a lot of them are I

1980
01:52:07,439 --> 01:52:09,320
Speaker 2: don't know if they're cherished. They just gave me a

1981
01:52:09,320 --> 01:52:12,640
Speaker 2: lot of information. And even though I say abstractly, I

1982
01:52:12,720 --> 01:52:15,679
Speaker 2: suppose I could try to find it on the kindle version,

1983
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:18,960
Speaker 2: I can't. I definitely could find it in the physical version.

1984
01:52:19,479 --> 01:52:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I wonder if prints has been more resilient

1985
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:30,960
Speaker 1: than I think many book publishers thought. And I'm wondering

1986
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:34,680
Speaker 1: if there's something there on local news that maybe that

1987
01:52:34,800 --> 01:52:37,840
Speaker 1: maybe there's a way to bring print back selectively, even

1988
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:38,639
Speaker 1: in the local level.

1989
01:52:39,560 --> 01:52:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I know Tablet has a print play that's

1990
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:47,000
Speaker 2: going pretty well for them. It's it's maybe like vinyl

1991
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:49,960
Speaker 2: with among the music offficionados.

1992
01:52:50,240 --> 01:52:51,160
Speaker 1: Well, we're starting to see.

1993
01:52:51,240 --> 01:52:53,960
Speaker 2: But I read something where said it's pretty it does

1994
01:52:53,960 --> 01:52:56,560
Speaker 2: pretty well for the record companies they're vinyl divisions.

1995
01:52:56,680 --> 01:53:00,080
Speaker 1: Well, especially when you're charging forty dollars an album. I

1996
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:03,200
Speaker 1: don't know if you Bespoke, Yeah, bought one of these

1997
01:53:03,720 --> 01:53:07,799
Speaker 1: newly new this new way that hey, get a Taylor

1998
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:10,519
Speaker 1: Swift album for your daughter on vinyl, you know, and

1999
01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:15,040
Speaker 1: it's like fifty bucks even at Target. Anyway, Mike, enjoy

2000
01:53:15,080 --> 01:53:18,960
Speaker 1: the holidays you too. Do you travel or do you host?

2001
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:22,120
Speaker 2: I do a little of each. I think I usually

2002
01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:26,280
Speaker 2: take my vacation two weeks later to beat all the crowds.

2003
01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:29,880
Speaker 2: But as always, as always, Chuck, thank you for having

2004
01:53:29,920 --> 01:53:32,440
Speaker 2: me and go Beavers.

2005
01:53:32,160 --> 01:53:34,880
Speaker 1: Go be If you learned anything, it's the fact that

2006
01:53:34,920 --> 01:53:38,360
Speaker 1: the only person that knows more minutia, particularly sports mandusia,

2007
01:53:38,400 --> 01:53:42,200
Speaker 1: than myself, it's you, mister Pesca Cooney lifts. Go Beavers.

2008
01:53:42,280 --> 01:53:52,240
Speaker 1: Thanks problem well, I always enjoy my conversations with Mike.

2009
01:53:52,400 --> 01:53:55,479
Speaker 1: I hope you do too. And again check out the gist.

2010
01:53:55,600 --> 01:53:58,880
Speaker 1: It's say it is one of those it does not

2011
01:53:59,120 --> 01:54:01,439
Speaker 1: it's a great news that it does not waste your time.

2012
01:54:01,760 --> 01:54:04,200
Speaker 1: It is just a it is a great it's sort

2013
01:54:04,240 --> 01:54:07,439
Speaker 1: of you know, it is that the second set I

2014
01:54:07,439 --> 01:54:10,519
Speaker 1: had lines that you that sort of make you a

2015
01:54:10,560 --> 01:54:12,920
Speaker 1: little bit smarter at that holiday party, a little bit

2016
01:54:12,920 --> 01:54:16,920
Speaker 1: smarter at that cocktail party, et cetera. That little extra

2017
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:22,519
Speaker 1: nugget that not every news junkie seems to know. Mister

2018
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:26,240
Speaker 1: fishy peachy guy uh does a good job with that.

2019
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:30,760
Speaker 1: I always loved my conversations with Mike. It is notable,

2020
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 1: by the way, before I get to Q and A

2021
01:54:33,960 --> 01:54:35,840
Speaker 1: and I know, I spent the first part of this

2022
01:54:35,920 --> 01:54:38,600
Speaker 1: monologue telling you about Trump's future and all this stuff.

2023
01:54:39,920 --> 01:54:43,040
Speaker 1: There was some breaking news while I was taping my

2024
01:54:43,160 --> 01:54:45,840
Speaker 1: monologue that I missed, and he put out the following tweet,

2025
01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:49,440
Speaker 1: and he was very excited. I was. I was taping

2026
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:54,760
Speaker 1: before the CBS airs the Kennedy Center, excuse me, the

2027
01:54:54,800 --> 01:54:57,520
Speaker 1: Trump Kennedy Center honors. Right, I'm sure we'll hear plenty

2028
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:02,920
Speaker 1: of jokes and in fact, Trump tweeted the following on Tuesday,

2029
01:55:04,160 --> 01:55:07,160
Speaker 1: on Festivus Day before Christmas Eve. The Trump Kennedy Center

2030
01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:09,240
Speaker 1: Honors is what he called it. The Trump Kennedy Center

2031
01:55:09,280 --> 01:55:12,160
Speaker 1: Honors will be broadcast tonight on CBS in stream on

2032
01:55:12,200 --> 01:55:15,000
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus ten at at apm Eastern. At the request

2033
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:16,920
Speaker 1: of the board and just about everybody else in America,

2034
01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:19,760
Speaker 1: I am hosting the event. Tell me what you think

2035
01:55:19,800 --> 01:55:23,000
Speaker 1: of my master of ceremony that's in quotes abilities if

2036
01:55:23,080 --> 01:55:25,080
Speaker 1: really good, would you like me to leave the presidency

2037
01:55:25,080 --> 01:55:27,800
Speaker 1: in order to make hosting a full time job. We

2038
01:55:27,880 --> 01:55:30,040
Speaker 1: will be honoring true greats in the history of entertainments

2039
01:55:30,040 --> 01:55:33,720
Speaker 1: of Wester Sloan, Michael Crawford, Kiss, George Strait, and Gloria Gainer.

2040
01:55:35,880 --> 01:55:40,120
Speaker 1: So is this the soft launch for Trump's resignation strategy

2041
01:55:40,120 --> 01:55:42,160
Speaker 1: from the president? You didn't get to kick me out.

2042
01:55:42,160 --> 01:55:44,760
Speaker 1: I left on my own terms. You know, here's the irony.

2043
01:55:45,560 --> 01:55:49,680
Speaker 1: Donald Trump as dinner party host, Donald Trump as sort

2044
01:55:49,720 --> 01:55:54,680
Speaker 1: of the roast master, if you will, to take the

2045
01:55:54,720 --> 01:55:58,400
Speaker 1: place during those old Comedy Central rows, that's kind of

2046
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:01,800
Speaker 1: what America wanted out of Donald. I don't think. I

2047
01:56:01,840 --> 01:56:03,720
Speaker 1: think now it's fair to say most of a recond

2048
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:06,440
Speaker 1: did we really want this guy as president or did

2049
01:56:06,480 --> 01:56:09,760
Speaker 1: we just want this guy to be sort of not

2050
01:56:09,840 --> 01:56:13,240
Speaker 1: even necessarily the MC of the Center Ring, of the

2051
01:56:13,240 --> 01:56:15,840
Speaker 1: three Ring circus. We just kind of wanted to tune

2052
01:56:15,880 --> 01:56:17,760
Speaker 1: into him every once in a while because he was

2053
01:56:17,840 --> 01:56:20,240
Speaker 1: kind of amusing, and he was kind of strange, and

2054
01:56:20,280 --> 01:56:22,960
Speaker 1: he was kind of outlandish and sort of all of

2055
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:25,919
Speaker 1: those things. And a little bit of Donald Trump was amusing,

2056
01:56:26,200 --> 01:56:29,040
Speaker 1: and a lot of Donald Trump is exhausting. Right, So

2057
01:56:30,560 --> 01:56:35,760
Speaker 1: we know he's not totally serious about this, but you know,

2058
01:56:35,800 --> 01:56:38,600
Speaker 1: in his own weird way, he probably realizes even his

2059
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:40,800
Speaker 1: haters are going to say, yes, please go be a host,

2060
01:56:41,120 --> 01:56:42,920
Speaker 1: go leave the presidency of be a host, and then

2061
01:56:42,960 --> 01:56:45,520
Speaker 1: he will take that and say, people loved all of

2062
01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:49,720
Speaker 1: my hosting. Anyway, all right, let's get to some questions,

2063
01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:55,840
Speaker 1: ask Chuck, And by the way, next week I'm going

2064
01:56:55,920 --> 01:57:01,600
Speaker 1: to do I'm gonna do as forty minutes of questions.

2065
01:57:01,680 --> 01:57:04,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to tackle that much of my mail bag

2066
01:57:05,240 --> 01:57:08,280
Speaker 1: to try to clear it out from the year. But

2067
01:57:08,440 --> 01:57:12,720
Speaker 1: in the meantime, let's slip in a few. All right,

2068
01:57:13,240 --> 01:57:16,680
Speaker 1: first question, it comes from Michael Dallas, Texas. Help you

2069
01:57:16,680 --> 01:57:18,600
Speaker 1: found some good barbecue in College Station. When you're in

2070
01:57:18,640 --> 01:57:21,760
Speaker 1: Dallas for the Cotton bowlt checkup barbecue spotch Hutchins and

2071
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:22,919
Speaker 1: PKM Lodge.

2072
01:57:22,960 --> 01:57:23,480
Speaker 2: I did do.

2073
01:57:23,440 --> 01:57:27,240
Speaker 1: PKM Lodge and it is great. That is great. It

2074
01:57:27,360 --> 01:57:29,400
Speaker 1: is hard to find bad barbecue in Dallas. I'm sure

2075
01:57:29,440 --> 01:57:32,320
Speaker 1: it exists, but even the bad barbecue places are good

2076
01:57:32,320 --> 01:57:35,360
Speaker 1: compared to almost any other city outside of Texas. So

2077
01:57:35,880 --> 01:57:39,760
Speaker 1: but PKM Lodge, I had forgotten the name of it.

2078
01:57:39,800 --> 01:57:42,560
Speaker 1: Thank you for reminument. Then he asks this. This twenty twenty

2079
01:57:42,600 --> 01:57:44,520
Speaker 1: eight gets closer by the day. As of late December

2080
01:57:44,560 --> 01:57:46,240
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, what wing of the party do you

2081
01:57:46,520 --> 01:57:49,240
Speaker 1: do you believe the Republican Party will lean towards? Will

2082
01:57:49,280 --> 01:57:52,080
Speaker 1: it embrace someone from the Romney Bush era I e. Rubio,

2083
01:57:52,160 --> 01:57:54,000
Speaker 1: or will it be a Trump air apparent I advance

2084
01:57:54,360 --> 01:57:56,280
Speaker 1: have a hold over the voter. Keep up the good content.

2085
01:57:56,320 --> 01:57:59,400
Speaker 1: Thanks Michael, Dallas, Texas. I think if you look look

2086
01:58:02,440 --> 01:58:04,560
Speaker 1: take the law, I just look at. Let's just look

2087
01:58:04,600 --> 01:58:08,720
Speaker 1: at sort of post World War two history of two

2088
01:58:08,840 --> 01:58:14,120
Speaker 1: term presidents. Right, Eisenhower's vice president was the Republican nominee

2089
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:19,760
Speaker 1: in sixty you have lbj's vice president, Hubert Humphrey was

2090
01:58:19,760 --> 01:58:27,839
Speaker 1: the Democratic nominee in sixty eight. Ronald Reagan's vice president

2091
01:58:28,720 --> 01:58:35,520
Speaker 1: was the nominee in nineteen eighty eight. Now, the one

2092
01:58:36,040 --> 01:58:40,360
Speaker 1: time where the party literally went further away from the

2093
01:58:40,400 --> 01:58:48,640
Speaker 1: outgoing sitting president is arguably John McCain inaight from George W. Bush. Right,

2094
01:58:48,680 --> 01:58:52,520
Speaker 1: there was nobody really running as the Bush air parent. Now,

2095
01:58:52,600 --> 01:58:55,120
Speaker 1: McCain was the guy that finished second to Bush in

2096
01:58:55,160 --> 01:58:58,520
Speaker 1: two thousand, so in some ways was following the traditional

2097
01:58:58,520 --> 01:59:01,920
Speaker 1: Republican pattern of who finished second get this nomination the

2098
01:59:01,920 --> 01:59:04,000
Speaker 1: next time. We saw it with Bob Dole after Bush,

2099
01:59:04,040 --> 01:59:05,840
Speaker 1: we saw it with Bush after Reagan, We saw it

2100
01:59:05,840 --> 01:59:12,480
Speaker 1: with Reagan after Ford. You get my drift. But you

2101
01:59:12,480 --> 01:59:15,160
Speaker 1: could argue that the nomination of McCain was a way

2102
01:59:15,400 --> 01:59:17,640
Speaker 1: of Republican primary voters going no, no, no, we're looking for

2103
01:59:17,680 --> 01:59:19,600
Speaker 1: something different too. We want to we want to turn

2104
01:59:19,640 --> 01:59:27,000
Speaker 1: the page on on Bush. I don't think with the

2105
01:59:27,240 --> 01:59:30,960
Speaker 1: with as much as I think that there is a

2106
01:59:31,480 --> 01:59:34,320
Speaker 1: an appetite for it within a good chunk of the

2107
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:38,600
Speaker 1: Republican Party. Right, We've seen, you know, the move Mike Pence,

2108
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:41,240
Speaker 1: pretty bold move Mike Pence made to to sort of

2109
01:59:41,280 --> 01:59:44,960
Speaker 1: stake his claim and I think what I still think

2110
01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:47,760
Speaker 1: those I still think Mike pen sees himself as a

2111
01:59:47,800 --> 01:59:52,240
Speaker 1: person who can bridge the old Romney Bush wing of

2112
01:59:52,280 --> 01:59:57,000
Speaker 1: the party with the new Trump Maga wing of the party.

2113
01:59:57,080 --> 01:59:59,400
Speaker 1: I still think Penn sees himself is a better bridge

2114
01:59:59,400 --> 02:00:06,280
Speaker 1: to that then say a Marco Rubio. But the most

2115
02:00:06,360 --> 02:00:10,920
Speaker 1: likely result is Trump's air. Trump's VP is the nominee,

2116
02:00:11,040 --> 02:00:14,200
Speaker 1: right it is. It is very hard to deny a

2117
02:00:14,240 --> 02:00:18,160
Speaker 1: sitting vice president nomination. Hubert Humphrey wasn't denied at al

2118
02:00:18,200 --> 02:00:20,840
Speaker 1: Gore wasn't denied at Kamala Harrison her own odd way,

2119
02:00:20,920 --> 02:00:23,280
Speaker 1: wasn't denied at George H. W. Bush wasn't tonight. It

2120
02:00:23,280 --> 02:00:24,960
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they don't have to work for it. They

2121
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:27,720
Speaker 1: got a Walter Mondale even as an ex VP, right,

2122
02:00:27,760 --> 02:00:32,720
Speaker 1: it gets it. It is just very difficult. They When

2123
02:00:32,720 --> 02:00:36,680
Speaker 1: you think about how state parties are sort of filled

2124
02:00:36,760 --> 02:00:43,320
Speaker 1: with loyalists, you know you're going to have, you know,

2125
02:00:43,400 --> 02:00:46,160
Speaker 1: it's not like you know, look who runs the state

2126
02:00:46,320 --> 02:00:49,680
Speaker 1: Republican parties right now. There's not many people from the

2127
02:00:49,800 --> 02:00:53,440
Speaker 1: Romney Bush wing of the party sort of in charge

2128
02:00:53,440 --> 02:00:56,560
Speaker 1: anymore anywhere. So I don't know where you would get

2129
02:00:56,560 --> 02:00:59,480
Speaker 1: a base of support to actually win a majority of

2130
02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:02,880
Speaker 1: Republican primary voters to pull this off, you'd need it,

2131
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:06,160
Speaker 1: you know, McCain pulled it off because there really wasn't

2132
02:01:06,520 --> 02:01:10,600
Speaker 1: a consolidated conservative to stop him. I mean, had Romney,

2133
02:01:11,720 --> 02:01:15,320
Speaker 1: had Romney been a more trusted conservative in OA, right,

2134
02:01:15,360 --> 02:01:17,640
Speaker 1: and he just wasn't yet he was the guy still

2135
02:01:17,680 --> 02:01:22,560
Speaker 1: four years frankly, only two years removed from from romney Care,

2136
02:01:22,600 --> 02:01:26,360
Speaker 1: only two years removed from flipping on the abortion issue

2137
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:31,000
Speaker 1: as he left the Massachusetts governorship, So he wasn't. He

2138
02:01:31,240 --> 02:01:35,120
Speaker 1: couldn't consolidate conservatives completely. So there the sort of the

2139
02:01:35,120 --> 02:01:40,240
Speaker 1: social conservatives were splintered, the sort of more Bush Ryan

2140
02:01:40,360 --> 02:01:42,600
Speaker 1: wing of the party was kind of splintered, and it

2141
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:48,080
Speaker 1: gave a room for McCain. Look, it's possible, right, but

2142
02:01:48,120 --> 02:01:53,680
Speaker 1: the more probable outcome is that you know, Vance gets it,

2143
02:01:54,160 --> 02:02:00,680
Speaker 1: and you know, look, you I'd rather be the Democrats

2144
02:02:01,160 --> 02:02:04,560
Speaker 1: than Vance, But every nomination's worth having because the Democrats

2145
02:02:04,600 --> 02:02:07,839
Speaker 1: could end up nominating someone who's less selectable than Jade Vance's.

2146
02:02:09,200 --> 02:02:14,880
Speaker 1: But I think Vance is it's interesting that what he

2147
02:02:14,920 --> 02:02:18,640
Speaker 1: did over the weekend in his decision not to you know,

2148
02:02:18,680 --> 02:02:22,400
Speaker 1: he he will not condemn hateful rhetoric on the right.

2149
02:02:22,800 --> 02:02:26,920
Speaker 1: He goes out of his way to appease or apologize.

2150
02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:29,680
Speaker 1: If somebody on the left says something hateful, they should

2151
02:02:29,720 --> 02:02:33,080
Speaker 1: be ostracized from their job from society. When some of

2152
02:02:33,080 --> 02:02:36,160
Speaker 1: the are right does it, Oh, they're just kids. Nobody

2153
02:02:36,160 --> 02:02:40,600
Speaker 1: should be judged by one thing they do. He is

2154
02:02:40,760 --> 02:02:42,720
Speaker 1: really and this is why I think he's going to

2155
02:02:42,720 --> 02:02:45,960
Speaker 1: be somebody who appears to spend too much time online

2156
02:02:46,080 --> 02:02:48,320
Speaker 1: and not enough time in the real world. This is

2157
02:02:48,320 --> 02:02:52,680
Speaker 1: a guy that needs to touch Republican grass roots, not

2158
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:59,800
Speaker 1: just Republican internet grasstops. So I'm skeptical of him, but

2159
02:03:00,800 --> 02:03:03,320
Speaker 1: he has to be considered the heavy favorite, and he

2160
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:07,720
Speaker 1: already has some institutional advantages that others are just not

2161
02:03:07,840 --> 02:03:11,760
Speaker 1: going to have, and frankly having turning point as an

2162
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:14,640
Speaker 1: organization which right now will certainly be a financial juggernaut.

2163
02:03:14,680 --> 02:03:19,360
Speaker 1: We'll see how influential it can remain if it is

2164
02:03:19,400 --> 02:03:21,840
Speaker 1: as influential in two years as it feels like it

2165
02:03:21,880 --> 02:03:24,960
Speaker 1: could be now. But he's already beginning there. It's hard

2166
02:03:25,040 --> 02:03:28,640
Speaker 1: to see another wing of the party winning in twenty

2167
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:32,680
Speaker 1: eight now. If Vance does not win the presidency in

2168
02:03:32,720 --> 02:03:36,800
Speaker 1: twenty eight. Then the twenty thirty midterms are going to

2169
02:03:36,840 --> 02:03:39,600
Speaker 1: be something else. Then you're going to have they may

2170
02:03:39,720 --> 02:03:42,160
Speaker 1: look what we're watching with the Democrats right now in

2171
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:45,360
Speaker 1: twenty six, which is we're getting a preview of the

2172
02:03:45,440 --> 02:03:49,720
Speaker 1: fight in twenty eight between essentially fight or unite. You

2173
02:03:49,760 --> 02:03:53,800
Speaker 1: know what kind of Democratic party should Democratic nominee? Should

2174
02:03:53,800 --> 02:03:55,920
Speaker 1: they have a fighter or somebody that's going to try

2175
02:03:55,920 --> 02:03:58,560
Speaker 1: to bring the country together or a united Right now,

2176
02:03:58,680 --> 02:04:01,000
Speaker 1: the grassroots of the Democratic Party wants a fighter, right

2177
02:04:01,040 --> 02:04:04,200
Speaker 1: and I think that you'll have some of those same Well,

2178
02:04:04,240 --> 02:04:07,520
Speaker 1: you'll have some of this same sort of intra party

2179
02:04:07,520 --> 02:04:11,520
Speaker 1: fighting and thirty, especially at fans loses all right. Next

2180
02:04:11,640 --> 02:04:15,280
Speaker 1: question comes from Travis and see, hey Chuck, hope you're

2181
02:04:15,400 --> 02:04:17,080
Speaker 1: enjoying the holiday season. I really say I had a

2182
02:04:17,120 --> 02:04:19,360
Speaker 1: vivid dream where I dropped a college class only to

2183
02:04:19,440 --> 02:04:21,680
Speaker 1: run into you as the professor. You gave me a

2184
02:04:21,760 --> 02:04:24,800
Speaker 1: urt time and it stuck with me. Oh good, Look,

2185
02:04:25,160 --> 02:04:28,160
Speaker 1: I will share the celibates. It's called how Washington Works,

2186
02:04:28,680 --> 02:04:30,640
Speaker 1: so I'll give you an idea of what. So basically,

2187
02:04:30,640 --> 02:04:36,880
Speaker 1: it's the class called how Washington Works. I have two assignments.

2188
02:04:36,920 --> 02:04:39,280
Speaker 1: You know that everybody that it participates in this class

2189
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:42,560
Speaker 1: has a full time job, all right, so we meet

2190
02:04:42,600 --> 02:04:45,280
Speaker 1: once a week. This is a special USC program. I

2191
02:04:45,360 --> 02:04:48,640
Speaker 1: highly recommend it. Essentially, instead of spending a semester abroad

2192
02:04:49,520 --> 02:04:52,560
Speaker 1: at USC, you spend a semester in DC. You get

2193
02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:54,760
Speaker 1: a full time job, you work nine to five, and

2194
02:04:54,800 --> 02:04:57,320
Speaker 1: then at six o'clock you have a class Monday through Thursday.

2195
02:04:57,920 --> 02:05:01,040
Speaker 1: I am the Thursday class, right, I am the last

2196
02:05:01,080 --> 02:05:03,040
Speaker 1: class before the start of their weekend. Though they do

2197
02:05:03,120 --> 02:05:07,800
Speaker 1: have to work Friday, usually on Fridays. So I say that,

2198
02:05:07,880 --> 02:05:10,200
Speaker 1: and I'm I am. I am mindful that this is

2199
02:05:10,640 --> 02:05:14,720
Speaker 1: They're there too, They're there to learn. I am not

2200
02:05:14,920 --> 02:05:18,040
Speaker 1: beating them up over assignments, though I do make them.

2201
02:05:18,240 --> 02:05:22,080
Speaker 1: There are two assignments, a midterm and a final that

2202
02:05:22,160 --> 02:05:24,640
Speaker 1: I do expect them to do. But essentially what I

2203
02:05:24,720 --> 02:05:27,960
Speaker 1: do is I have a variety of speakers. You know,

2204
02:05:28,200 --> 02:05:31,560
Speaker 1: I've I've had John Kasick, I've had Mark Short, I've

2205
02:05:31,560 --> 02:05:34,160
Speaker 1: had Brendan Buck on the Republican side, Jake lett Turner,

2206
02:05:34,960 --> 02:05:39,200
Speaker 1: I've had Jeff Science. I've had near a Tandent, I've

2207
02:05:39,200 --> 02:05:42,720
Speaker 1: had Debbie Dingle. So I try to have a good

2208
02:05:42,760 --> 02:05:45,920
Speaker 1: balance of I try to I want to have a

2209
02:05:45,960 --> 02:05:49,200
Speaker 1: couple of lobbyists, including those that lobby from the right,

2210
02:05:49,560 --> 02:05:52,440
Speaker 1: uh for the excuse me, from industry and those that

2211
02:05:52,520 --> 02:05:55,360
Speaker 1: lobby from activist groups so people can get an understanding

2212
02:05:55,520 --> 02:05:58,880
Speaker 1: how both types of lobbying work. Again, I view the classes.

2213
02:05:59,400 --> 02:06:03,160
Speaker 1: Actually the intent is how Washington works. And my joke

2214
02:06:03,280 --> 02:06:07,440
Speaker 1: is doesn't work for everybody. It's always working for somebody,

2215
02:06:08,560 --> 02:06:11,280
Speaker 1: and yes, this year it's going to change and how

2216
02:06:11,320 --> 02:06:14,680
Speaker 1: it works. And then I you know, the assignment I do.

2217
02:06:14,760 --> 02:06:19,800
Speaker 1: I do this. Last time, I offered a choice of

2218
02:06:19,840 --> 02:06:23,160
Speaker 1: books to read during the midterm that I think best,

2219
02:06:24,600 --> 02:06:26,520
Speaker 1: and in fact I posted some of those books. But

2220
02:06:26,520 --> 02:06:29,680
Speaker 1: I think that best sort of helped explain why we're

2221
02:06:29,720 --> 02:06:34,360
Speaker 1: in the political moment we're in. So, you know, had

2222
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:39,280
Speaker 1: I've assigned the McKay Coppin's book on Romney and sort

2223
02:06:39,280 --> 02:06:41,680
Speaker 1: of that campaign from twenty twelve and sort of Romney's

2224
02:06:41,760 --> 02:06:45,240
Speaker 1: view of sort of how the party went from his

2225
02:06:45,280 --> 02:06:47,160
Speaker 1: wing of the party to the Maga wing of the party.

2226
02:06:47,160 --> 02:06:53,240
Speaker 1: I think it's an incredibly insightful book on that front.

2227
02:06:53,960 --> 02:06:57,640
Speaker 1: The Wolves of k Street by Brodi and Luke Mullins,

2228
02:06:57,680 --> 02:07:04,000
Speaker 1: their brothers, their investigative reporters I think it's the currently

2229
02:07:04,120 --> 02:07:07,320
Speaker 1: the new best sort of guide to how lobbying in

2230
02:07:07,480 --> 02:07:12,280
Speaker 1: Washington works these days? Where have all the Democrats gone?

2231
02:07:12,920 --> 02:07:15,680
Speaker 1: Which is a roy to share a book about sort

2232
02:07:15,720 --> 02:07:18,960
Speaker 1: of how the Democratic coalition shifted from the Obama era

2233
02:07:19,080 --> 02:07:22,280
Speaker 1: to what it is today. All of it is designed

2234
02:07:22,600 --> 02:07:25,400
Speaker 1: so that I think these are books that best explain

2235
02:07:25,960 --> 02:07:28,839
Speaker 1: how we're in the situation that the current political electorate

2236
02:07:28,880 --> 02:07:32,760
Speaker 1: is in. I am not I do actually stay away

2237
02:07:32,760 --> 02:07:35,760
Speaker 1: from assigning books that how to quote make it better.

2238
02:07:36,320 --> 02:07:38,440
Speaker 1: I want people to understand where we are and then

2239
02:07:38,480 --> 02:07:42,880
Speaker 1: their final exam is their way of making one thing

2240
02:07:43,000 --> 02:07:46,240
Speaker 1: work better. What's a way to if there's something in

2241
02:07:46,320 --> 02:07:48,720
Speaker 1: Washington doesn't work right? How would you change it? Is

2242
02:07:48,760 --> 02:07:50,600
Speaker 1: it through the power of Congress? Is it through the

2243
02:07:50,640 --> 02:07:54,200
Speaker 1: power of the executive? Is it through outside influence? Is

2244
02:07:54,240 --> 02:08:01,160
Speaker 1: it through small d democratic reforms? So it's a it's

2245
02:08:01,200 --> 02:08:04,120
Speaker 1: a mix of guest speakers who have had real world experience,

2246
02:08:04,120 --> 02:08:07,440
Speaker 1: because everybody that's in this class is somebody that is

2247
02:08:08,480 --> 02:08:11,640
Speaker 1: animated about public service. That's a little bit different than

2248
02:08:11,640 --> 02:08:14,960
Speaker 1: the average person. I would say, in my two years

2249
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:17,240
Speaker 1: of teaching this class, half of them want to run

2250
02:08:17,240 --> 02:08:22,520
Speaker 1: for office. Someday, and so I want to give them

2251
02:08:22,680 --> 02:08:25,640
Speaker 1: speakers that have done it themselves the ups. I mean,

2252
02:08:25,720 --> 02:08:28,000
Speaker 1: John Kisa came in in here and said, don't run

2253
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:30,360
Speaker 1: for office in your twenties, which is exactly what John

2254
02:08:30,440 --> 02:08:33,320
Speaker 1: Kaisack did. He basically admitted that for the first thirty

2255
02:08:33,640 --> 02:08:35,920
Speaker 1: first ten years of his political career he did not

2256
02:08:36,040 --> 02:08:38,640
Speaker 1: have enough life experience to be a good public servant.

2257
02:08:39,600 --> 02:08:41,760
Speaker 1: And he said, I didn't know that then. You know,

2258
02:08:42,360 --> 02:08:44,920
Speaker 1: thirty five forty years later, you know that now. It

2259
02:08:45,320 --> 02:08:47,560
Speaker 1: just the tyranny of wisdom of the middle aged. We

2260
02:08:47,680 --> 02:08:50,440
Speaker 1: all realized once we hit our fifties and sixties all

2261
02:08:50,480 --> 02:08:52,640
Speaker 1: the mistakes we made in our twenties and thirties, and

2262
02:08:52,680 --> 02:08:55,240
Speaker 1: we're desperate to convince others in their twenties and thirties

2263
02:08:55,320 --> 02:08:58,000
Speaker 1: not to make these mistakes. And most of you never listen.

2264
02:08:58,920 --> 02:09:01,120
Speaker 1: We are at peak wisdom in our fifties and sixties,

2265
02:09:01,160 --> 02:09:03,880
Speaker 1: which is why probably all of our presidents should be

2266
02:09:04,120 --> 02:09:06,440
Speaker 1: in their fifties and sixties, and we shouldn't let anybody

2267
02:09:06,640 --> 02:09:09,960
Speaker 1: seventy plus be president. Is that that's my age cutoff

2268
02:09:10,000 --> 02:09:12,280
Speaker 1: on there, because I do think peak wisdom is somewhere

2269
02:09:13,320 --> 02:09:16,560
Speaker 1: in your fifties and sixties, and perhaps I say that

2270
02:09:16,600 --> 02:09:18,839
Speaker 1: out of necessity since I'm in my mid fifties.

2271
02:09:20,440 --> 02:09:21,280
Speaker 2: But that is and.

2272
02:09:23,560 --> 02:09:26,040
Speaker 1: Discussing the current events. I always spend about It's a

2273
02:09:26,040 --> 02:09:28,600
Speaker 1: three hour class, so iways spend about the first twenty

2274
02:09:28,640 --> 02:09:31,920
Speaker 1: or thirty minutes just discussing what happened that week and

2275
02:09:32,240 --> 02:09:35,040
Speaker 1: sort of. I also explained the new cycle a little bit.

2276
02:09:35,040 --> 02:09:38,200
Speaker 1: But they take a separate media class. Mine is very

2277
02:09:38,280 --> 02:09:42,440
Speaker 1: much more of how the institutions within Washington worse with

2278
02:09:42,560 --> 02:09:45,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of the influence of the press. But

2279
02:09:45,640 --> 02:09:48,680
Speaker 1: they have a separate class on that that is fully devoted,

2280
02:09:49,520 --> 02:09:52,280
Speaker 1: fully devoted to that. So I hope that gave you

2281
02:09:52,320 --> 02:09:57,920
Speaker 1: an idea of what class with me. So come on

2282
02:09:58,000 --> 02:10:02,200
Speaker 1: over to USC Dornsife. It's anybody is eligible for this

2283
02:10:02,240 --> 02:10:04,360
Speaker 1: class if you take, if you get involved in this

2284
02:10:04,440 --> 02:10:10,200
Speaker 1: DC program. So there you go. All right, next question,

2285
02:10:11,160 --> 02:10:12,560
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to make this the last question

2286
02:10:12,560 --> 02:10:14,840
Speaker 1: because I went long on that other one. I'm going

2287
02:10:14,920 --> 02:10:16,320
Speaker 1: to do three more. These are all good because I

2288
02:10:16,360 --> 02:10:17,080
Speaker 1: can be quick.

2289
02:10:16,920 --> 02:10:17,240
Speaker 2: All right.

2290
02:10:17,480 --> 02:10:23,440
Speaker 1: First one comes from Dan Pinehurst, North Carolina. Ah, I

2291
02:10:23,480 --> 02:10:26,200
Speaker 1: did a Pinehurst Boys trip once. I loved it. I

2292
02:10:26,240 --> 02:10:28,800
Speaker 1: loved it we did three courses. It was amazing. I

2293
02:10:28,800 --> 02:10:32,040
Speaker 1: don't think i've golf since then, but it was awesome. Pinehurst,

2294
02:10:32,080 --> 02:10:35,120
Speaker 1: what a great place, Lieutenant Colonel retired Lieutenant Colonel Dan

2295
02:10:36,600 --> 02:10:41,120
Speaker 1: lucky you that Pinehurst golf courses are your backyard, and

2296
02:10:41,160 --> 02:10:43,680
Speaker 1: he goes, hey, I really enjoyed your take on how

2297
02:10:43,680 --> 02:10:45,520
Speaker 1: we mismanaged the end of history after the fall of

2298
02:10:45,520 --> 02:10:47,360
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. Made me wonder how my things have

2299
02:10:47,360 --> 02:10:49,280
Speaker 1: played out differently At Bush forty wanted one a second

2300
02:10:49,400 --> 02:10:52,120
Speaker 1: term with the administration's strong national security team and less

2301
02:10:52,120 --> 02:10:55,400
Speaker 1: political pressure to catch in the peace dividend. Could a

2302
02:10:55,480 --> 02:10:57,920
Speaker 1: Marshall Plan style approach for Russia and Eastern Europe have

2303
02:10:58,000 --> 02:11:00,320
Speaker 1: worked better than the short term thinking we saw the nighties.

2304
02:11:00,480 --> 02:11:03,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for all the great programming, and go Clemson this weekend. Yeah,

2305
02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:06,680
Speaker 1: it's a it's a good matchup on paper. You're like, boy,

2306
02:11:06,720 --> 02:11:08,880
Speaker 1: that would would be a better game, right, I think

2307
02:11:08,880 --> 02:11:11,760
Speaker 1: it's Clemson Penn State'd be better if it were game

2308
02:11:11,800 --> 02:11:16,120
Speaker 1: one of the year and my recalibrated schedule of making

2309
02:11:16,200 --> 02:11:19,440
Speaker 1: all the bowl games happen actually as as preseason game

2310
02:11:19,480 --> 02:11:24,480
Speaker 1: one of the following season. You know, that's an interesting one.

2311
02:11:24,520 --> 02:11:27,840
Speaker 1: If on George H. W. Bush. I think you're right.

2312
02:11:28,040 --> 02:11:31,360
Speaker 1: I think it would have been a very foreign policy

2313
02:11:31,560 --> 02:11:36,800
Speaker 1: heavy second term where Bill Clinton won on domestic issues,

2314
02:11:36,840 --> 02:11:38,960
Speaker 1: so he'd make it all that so it you know,

2315
02:11:39,280 --> 02:11:42,080
Speaker 1: in some ways though I don't think you know, remember

2316
02:11:42,120 --> 02:11:45,920
Speaker 1: Clinton kept a lot he kept calling Pal's national security

2317
02:11:45,960 --> 02:11:49,720
Speaker 1: advisor no excuse me as chairman of the Joint Chiefs

2318
02:11:50,400 --> 02:11:56,000
Speaker 1: my mistake there, and and in some ways, even though

2319
02:11:56,000 --> 02:12:01,520
Speaker 1: he had democratic you know, players from the foreign policy community,

2320
02:12:02,040 --> 02:12:05,920
Speaker 1: they were really of the Cold War uniparty, if you will,

2321
02:12:06,080 --> 02:12:10,840
Speaker 1: right Warren Christopher, I would argue, was that Tony Lake

2322
02:12:10,960 --> 02:12:13,560
Speaker 1: and then later Sandy Berger On the national security side,

2323
02:12:13,560 --> 02:12:18,080
Speaker 1: I would argue, was that Al Gore as a vice president?

2324
02:12:18,160 --> 02:12:22,880
Speaker 1: Remember he was basically the Washington hand for for the

2325
02:12:22,880 --> 02:12:29,200
Speaker 1: inexperienced Arkansas in Bill Clinton. So, I you know, I

2326
02:12:29,200 --> 02:12:31,080
Speaker 1: don't want to I don't know if our foreign policy

2327
02:12:31,080 --> 02:12:33,240
Speaker 1: would have changed all that much, but I do agree

2328
02:12:33,280 --> 02:12:37,360
Speaker 1: with you the emphasis might have been different. There may

2329
02:12:37,360 --> 02:12:42,200
Speaker 1: have been a more methodical approach that Bush and Baker

2330
02:12:42,240 --> 02:12:44,480
Speaker 1: would have had. I mean, essentially, what you're saying is,

2331
02:12:44,520 --> 02:12:47,200
Speaker 1: what if Jim Baker had been running things here right

2332
02:12:47,320 --> 02:12:52,120
Speaker 1: in helping democracy in the Eastern Europe. Maybe it's not

2333
02:12:52,240 --> 02:12:55,960
Speaker 1: a it's it's an interesting what if that I'd like

2334
02:12:56,000 --> 02:12:59,080
Speaker 1: to put a little more of my own efforts into.

2335
02:12:59,680 --> 02:13:02,320
Speaker 1: I need to familiar I need to go back. And

2336
02:13:02,640 --> 02:13:07,040
Speaker 1: there's a great Jim Baker memoir not a memoir, excuse me,

2337
02:13:07,040 --> 02:13:09,760
Speaker 1: a biography that was written by my friends Peter Baker

2338
02:13:09,760 --> 02:13:15,000
Speaker 1: and Susan Glasser. It had some cooperation from Baker. It

2339
02:13:15,200 --> 02:13:19,960
Speaker 1: is a really look I think Jim Baker's Jim Baker

2340
02:13:20,000 --> 02:13:23,920
Speaker 1: and Leon Panetta are probably the two great equally the

2341
02:13:23,920 --> 02:13:29,600
Speaker 1: greatest Republican and greatest Democratic public servants that weren't the

2342
02:13:29,680 --> 02:13:32,880
Speaker 1: best politicians, right. I think Baker ran and lost a

2343
02:13:32,880 --> 02:13:37,720
Speaker 1: state ag race in Texas. Leon Panetta obviously was a

2344
02:13:37,760 --> 02:13:40,880
Speaker 1: member of Congress, wanted to run for governor, never could

2345
02:13:40,880 --> 02:13:42,760
Speaker 1: find a way to do it. But boy, they.

2346
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:46,120
Speaker 3: Were really good at they they they were They had

2347
02:13:46,120 --> 02:13:50,960
Speaker 3: a politician's I with a with sort of CEO capabilities,

2348
02:13:51,040 --> 02:13:53,280
Speaker 3: kind of like Cheney, you know, I meaning they knew

2349
02:13:53,320 --> 02:13:56,240
Speaker 3: how not all all politicians want to run an institution,

2350
02:13:56,680 --> 02:13:58,440
Speaker 3: know how to actually have employees.

2351
02:13:58,720 --> 02:14:00,480
Speaker 1: You get the sense of Panetta and or did, and

2352
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:02,360
Speaker 1: this is why they were sort of the super staffers

2353
02:14:02,400 --> 02:14:05,640
Speaker 1: of their era, one one on the D side, one

2354
02:14:05,640 --> 02:14:08,040
Speaker 1: on the R side. But I I almost needed would

2355
02:14:08,080 --> 02:14:11,440
Speaker 1: want to go back and reread the Baker books, both

2356
02:14:11,520 --> 02:14:14,200
Speaker 1: his and then the one he cooperated with with Glassner

2357
02:14:14,760 --> 02:14:19,240
Speaker 1: uh And and Peter Baker. No relation by the way

2358
02:14:19,440 --> 02:14:23,000
Speaker 1: to sort of answer that question fully, But but there's

2359
02:14:23,080 --> 02:14:27,400
Speaker 1: no doubt they're needed. We we we. It is clear

2360
02:14:27,480 --> 02:14:32,440
Speaker 1: we rushed through the democratization of the former Soviet republics

2361
02:14:32,800 --> 02:14:37,720
Speaker 1: and and really screwed and it was really divving up industry,

2362
02:14:38,480 --> 02:14:41,160
Speaker 1: is ended up creating the oligarchs. And in that sense,

2363
02:14:41,200 --> 02:14:42,840
Speaker 1: I think you could say we had a hand in

2364
02:14:42,880 --> 02:14:47,200
Speaker 1: creating the oligarchy that now essentially runs too much of

2365
02:14:47,240 --> 02:14:50,560
Speaker 1: the of of Russia and much of and many of

2366
02:14:50,560 --> 02:14:55,160
Speaker 1: the former Soviet republics on that front. So great question.

2367
02:14:56,560 --> 02:14:58,840
Speaker 1: Next one today comes from Gavin Brady. Loved your deep

2368
02:14:58,880 --> 02:15:01,160
Speaker 1: dive and how post World War One decision still shape

2369
02:15:01,160 --> 02:15:03,640
Speaker 1: global politics today. Such an overlook part of history, the

2370
02:15:03,640 --> 02:15:06,280
Speaker 1: way Western powers redrew borders in the Middle East continues

2371
02:15:06,320 --> 02:15:09,080
Speaker 1: to have serious repercussions, yet it's barely discussed. You've talked

2372
02:15:09,080 --> 02:15:11,240
Speaker 1: a lot about media decline, but how do we address

2373
02:15:11,240 --> 02:15:14,160
Speaker 1: the erosion of historical education and understanding it feels essential

2374
02:15:14,360 --> 02:15:18,280
Speaker 1: for making sense of modern challenges. Gavin Brady, Brisbane, Australia.

2375
02:15:18,400 --> 02:15:24,880
Speaker 1: This is my frustration, right we look, I imagine you know Australia,

2376
02:15:25,200 --> 02:15:29,560
Speaker 1: world history is certainly taught through the prism of Australia,

2377
02:15:29,880 --> 02:15:31,720
Speaker 1: just like world history is taught through the prism of

2378
02:15:31,760 --> 02:15:38,640
Speaker 1: America in American schools, etc. But I think we do

2379
02:15:40,560 --> 02:15:44,320
Speaker 1: there's no doubt we have done a poor We don't teach,

2380
02:15:44,840 --> 02:15:49,360
Speaker 1: We don't think about creating historical curriculums through the prism

2381
02:15:49,400 --> 02:15:52,720
Speaker 1: of today's issues. Right. So if you were to create

2382
02:15:53,600 --> 02:15:56,560
Speaker 1: a curriculum on history, and I almost wonder if there's

2383
02:15:56,560 --> 02:16:00,400
Speaker 1: a class to be made which is current of the

2384
02:16:00,480 --> 02:16:03,520
Speaker 1: history of current events. Okay, I need to come up

2385
02:16:03,520 --> 02:16:07,320
Speaker 1: with a better class of that. But so that Okay,

2386
02:16:07,360 --> 02:16:09,920
Speaker 1: the Middle East is in the news, let's teach history

2387
02:16:09,920 --> 02:16:13,960
Speaker 1: of the Middle East to understand that, right, And it

2388
02:16:14,000 --> 02:16:16,440
Speaker 1: seems like a simple thing to do. Here's the context

2389
02:16:17,320 --> 02:16:21,960
Speaker 1: and we go. But that's really what's missing in our curriculum.

2390
02:16:22,720 --> 02:16:26,160
Speaker 1: We probably would be in this and I think this

2391
02:16:26,320 --> 02:16:34,240
Speaker 1: is what's look the politicizing of of of education curriculums,

2392
02:16:34,280 --> 02:16:37,160
Speaker 1: particularly in Middle schools and high schools is a real

2393
02:16:37,240 --> 02:16:40,840
Speaker 1: problem when everybody wants their point of view reinforced in

2394
02:16:40,879 --> 02:16:44,879
Speaker 1: how history is taught rather than just getting getting people

2395
02:16:45,000 --> 02:16:47,640
Speaker 1: more knowledgeable. I mean, when you look at how many

2396
02:16:47,720 --> 02:16:50,080
Speaker 1: times we've been drawn into a hot conflict in the

2397
02:16:50,080 --> 02:16:53,160
Speaker 1: Middle East, and how little in high school we spend

2398
02:16:53,240 --> 02:16:58,080
Speaker 1: in history classes teaching how World War One created this

2399
02:16:58,240 --> 02:17:00,880
Speaker 1: mess and the fall of the Ottoman it seems to

2400
02:17:00,879 --> 02:17:05,640
Speaker 1: be kind of messed up when we you know, today

2401
02:17:05,840 --> 02:17:08,520
Speaker 1: sixteen and seventeen year olds may end up fighting a

2402
02:17:08,560 --> 02:17:10,920
Speaker 1: war in the Middle East, may end up fighting a

2403
02:17:10,959 --> 02:17:14,720
Speaker 1: war in China. What do we teach about Taiwan? What

2404
02:17:14,720 --> 02:17:18,120
Speaker 1: do we teach about the rise of communist China? You know,

2405
02:17:18,320 --> 02:17:20,560
Speaker 1: we're tero you want to talk about you know, I

2406
02:17:20,800 --> 02:17:23,959
Speaker 1: complain about our lack of of how we just gloss

2407
02:17:24,000 --> 02:17:25,800
Speaker 1: over World War One and just teach it through the

2408
02:17:25,800 --> 02:17:29,280
Speaker 1: prison of World War two? What kind of thing about

2409
02:17:29,320 --> 02:17:31,960
Speaker 1: your own For those of you ask yourself how well

2410
02:17:32,040 --> 02:17:38,119
Speaker 1: you feel like you were educated about China? Say pre mao, okay,

2411
02:17:38,600 --> 02:17:41,360
Speaker 1: and even then, you know, we we do a little

2412
02:17:41,360 --> 02:17:44,280
Speaker 1: bit of mao, right, But it's really quickly there's a

2413
02:17:44,520 --> 02:17:47,480
Speaker 1: Nixon goes to China, YadA, YadA, YadA. We kind of

2414
02:17:47,879 --> 02:17:50,320
Speaker 1: kind of fight China a little bit during the Korean War,

2415
02:17:52,000 --> 02:17:55,400
Speaker 1: there's some normalization with then Chao Ping, YadA, YadA, YadA.

2416
02:17:55,480 --> 02:17:59,000
Speaker 1: Then there's the Olympics, and you know, we don't really

2417
02:17:59,120 --> 02:18:04,840
Speaker 1: teach the history of China and Asia in general. And

2418
02:18:04,959 --> 02:18:07,400
Speaker 1: yet I could argue the twenty first you know, if

2419
02:18:07,440 --> 02:18:14,200
Speaker 1: the twentieth century was all about sort of the re

2420
02:18:15,120 --> 02:18:19,879
Speaker 1: it was all about sort of the I guess you

2421
02:18:19,879 --> 02:18:25,040
Speaker 1: could call it the the de empiring of Europe. Right,

2422
02:18:25,320 --> 02:18:28,880
Speaker 1: Europe was sort of nothing but a series of sort

2423
02:18:28,920 --> 02:18:31,800
Speaker 1: of of empires trying to control it in some form

2424
02:18:31,879 --> 02:18:34,680
Speaker 1: or another, and the twentieth century was sort of an

2425
02:18:34,720 --> 02:18:36,840
Speaker 1: attempt to put an end to that, right, And it's

2426
02:18:36,879 --> 02:18:39,720
Speaker 1: sort of and it did. I think the twenty first

2427
02:18:39,720 --> 02:18:44,080
Speaker 1: century is going to be all about sort of reshaping

2428
02:18:44,360 --> 02:18:48,080
Speaker 1: the power structures in Asia. And yet our education system

2429
02:18:48,680 --> 02:18:53,080
Speaker 1: does very little in making sure we're fairly informed about

2430
02:18:53,120 --> 02:18:56,959
Speaker 1: the history of Asian civilizations, of Asian governments of China

2431
02:18:56,959 --> 02:19:02,039
Speaker 1: in particular. So yeah, we need to we need to

2432
02:19:02,080 --> 02:19:08,360
Speaker 1: think about our history. Curriculums should be tied to active

2433
02:19:08,440 --> 02:19:11,880
Speaker 1: current events, you know, sort of within a ten year

2434
02:19:11,920 --> 02:19:17,760
Speaker 1: period in order, because frankly, if students, I know, I

2435
02:19:17,800 --> 02:19:20,160
Speaker 1: got more animated about something, if I learned something and

2436
02:19:20,160 --> 02:19:22,119
Speaker 1: then I saw something related to it in the paper

2437
02:19:22,760 --> 02:19:25,039
Speaker 1: or you related to it in the current events, it

2438
02:19:25,120 --> 02:19:29,520
Speaker 1: actually sunk in more. So it would just be better teaching. Look,

2439
02:19:29,560 --> 02:19:32,200
Speaker 1: the best teachers figure this out, you know. I remember

2440
02:19:32,240 --> 02:19:34,640
Speaker 1: having a great government teacher who was who did this

2441
02:19:34,760 --> 02:19:38,199
Speaker 1: really well? But the best teachers figure figure that out.

2442
02:19:38,320 --> 02:19:41,000
Speaker 1: All right, last question, uh for for today before I

2443
02:19:41,040 --> 02:19:44,760
Speaker 1: get to my uh my sports viewing guide slash conversation

2444
02:19:44,920 --> 02:19:48,440
Speaker 1: starters for you, per your suggestion, I watched Death by Lightning.

2445
02:19:48,440 --> 02:19:50,160
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it, but found it too short, so I

2446
02:19:50,200 --> 02:19:52,080
Speaker 1: read the book. I kept rolling my eyes at how

2447
02:19:52,120 --> 02:19:54,840
Speaker 1: often it mentioned national unity around Garfield. Made me sad

2448
02:19:54,840 --> 02:19:57,119
Speaker 1: to realize I can't imagine that kind of unity today.

2449
02:19:57,400 --> 02:19:59,400
Speaker 1: Was the country really that united in grief and anger

2450
02:19:59,400 --> 02:20:01,280
Speaker 1: over its assas nation? Or did the author take some

2451
02:20:01,360 --> 02:20:03,440
Speaker 1: license loving the podcast? So just a reminder there are

2452
02:20:03,440 --> 02:20:06,600
Speaker 1: other sports besides college football and baseball, Melanie, I hear you,

2453
02:20:06,920 --> 02:20:09,360
Speaker 1: and I've got plenty of baseball takes. They're coming. This

2454
02:20:09,520 --> 02:20:12,000
Speaker 1: is just the heart of college football season, trust me.

2455
02:20:12,040 --> 02:20:14,360
Speaker 1: Pictures and catchers report, what do we add like less

2456
02:20:14,360 --> 02:20:17,240
Speaker 1: than ten weeks? So I'm there, right, pictures and catchers

2457
02:20:17,240 --> 02:20:20,160
Speaker 1: are I think we're like eight weeks away. I got you, Melanie,

2458
02:20:20,160 --> 02:20:29,040
Speaker 1: don't worry, So can I can I recommend another book

2459
02:20:29,560 --> 02:20:33,200
Speaker 1: that I think would because I you know, do I

2460
02:20:33,240 --> 02:20:37,160
Speaker 1: think there was definitely real unity around Garfield because think

2461
02:20:37,200 --> 02:20:40,480
Speaker 1: about this? Okay, what I think? What? What the what?

2462
02:20:40,480 --> 02:20:44,600
Speaker 1: The movie did a terrible with the mini series terrible.

2463
02:20:44,680 --> 02:20:48,920
Speaker 1: I'm too strong. I just I was glad it was done,

2464
02:20:48,959 --> 02:20:52,520
Speaker 1: and it's so disappointed in the execution, okay, because I

2465
02:20:52,560 --> 02:20:54,879
Speaker 1: thought it was short. It gave short shrift to too

2466
02:20:54,879 --> 02:20:58,959
Speaker 1: many things. But there were two aspects to the story

2467
02:20:59,120 --> 02:21:01,560
Speaker 1: that the death by lightning, as the mini series just

2468
02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:05,680
Speaker 1: never really did a good job of showcasing. One was

2469
02:21:05,680 --> 02:21:09,040
Speaker 1: the fact that he gets shot, he lives for months.

2470
02:21:10,080 --> 02:21:13,520
Speaker 1: So that's why there was this sort of national think

2471
02:21:13,560 --> 02:21:16,720
Speaker 1: about it. Okay, there was this was what's the latest

2472
02:21:16,720 --> 02:21:19,600
Speaker 1: on the president? You know, is he running the country

2473
02:21:19,720 --> 02:21:22,640
Speaker 1: or not? Like, how does it? So there was it

2474
02:21:22,879 --> 02:21:26,760
Speaker 1: did become a national obsession. And while he's still alive,

2475
02:21:27,080 --> 02:21:30,720
Speaker 1: we have the trial of Gauteau, and the trial was

2476
02:21:30,760 --> 02:21:34,760
Speaker 1: the first trial of the century that everybody paid attention

2477
02:21:34,840 --> 02:21:37,840
Speaker 1: to and in d C. Just to get a ticket

2478
02:21:37,879 --> 02:21:41,640
Speaker 1: to attend the trial was like a was a big

2479
02:21:41,720 --> 02:21:44,280
Speaker 1: deal in society. People wanted to be able to say, oh,

2480
02:21:44,320 --> 02:21:46,360
Speaker 1: I was at the Guitou trial today, I saw him go.

2481
02:21:46,320 --> 02:21:47,320
Speaker 2: Crazy again today.

2482
02:21:48,680 --> 02:21:51,720
Speaker 1: I don't think it captured sort of that aspect of it.

2483
02:21:51,800 --> 02:21:55,480
Speaker 1: So it I think in the book and sort of

2484
02:21:55,480 --> 02:21:57,560
Speaker 1: destiny of the Republic, which is what Death by Lightning's

2485
02:21:57,560 --> 02:22:01,800
Speaker 1: based on. Technically, this other Garfield book is called Dark Horse,

2486
02:22:02,640 --> 02:22:05,760
Speaker 1: written by a Senate staffer some twenty five years ago,

2487
02:22:06,560 --> 02:22:10,760
Speaker 1: but very you know, I like the more detail it

2488
02:22:10,800 --> 02:22:14,240
Speaker 1: goes into the Republican convention, gives you a lot more

2489
02:22:14,280 --> 02:22:16,440
Speaker 1: on that, which is a political junkie. I just love

2490
02:22:16,920 --> 02:22:19,120
Speaker 1: and I do always want to remind people, you know,

2491
02:22:19,760 --> 02:22:23,160
Speaker 1: the mythology that just anybody could become the nominee at

2492
02:22:23,160 --> 02:22:28,360
Speaker 1: a convention is the Garfield story. And it was sort

2493
02:22:28,400 --> 02:22:30,920
Speaker 1: of because it happened once it became the myth that

2494
02:22:30,959 --> 02:22:34,039
Speaker 1: sort of made political conventions. We've all dreamed of a

2495
02:22:34,160 --> 02:22:40,400
Speaker 1: convention taking over the process, when only time that happened

2496
02:22:41,879 --> 02:22:46,640
Speaker 1: was in the eighteen eighty Chicago Republican Convention. So I

2497
02:22:46,680 --> 02:22:48,080
Speaker 1: think the book does a good job of that, but

2498
02:22:48,160 --> 02:22:51,440
Speaker 1: I do think the series gave short shrift to the

2499
02:22:51,520 --> 02:22:54,959
Speaker 1: fact that this was a that he was alive for

2500
02:22:55,120 --> 02:22:57,920
Speaker 1: months and it was due to poor medical treatment that

2501
02:22:57,959 --> 02:23:01,160
Speaker 1: he died. Right. The bullet didn't kill him, poor medical

2502
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:04,760
Speaker 1: treatment killed them. Uh. And then the second thing was

2503
02:23:04,800 --> 02:23:09,040
Speaker 1: the the the circus, that was the Goodeau trial itself,

2504
02:23:10,080 --> 02:23:13,840
Speaker 1: and I think it didn't necessarily capture that what what

2505
02:23:14,000 --> 02:23:17,840
Speaker 1: the public was feeling. But there's a reason Chester Arthur flips.

2506
02:23:18,320 --> 02:23:21,560
Speaker 1: There's a reason Chester Arthur right. And oh, by the way,

2507
02:23:21,959 --> 02:23:27,640
Speaker 1: the public blamed Arthur at first as part of you know,

2508
02:23:27,720 --> 02:23:30,200
Speaker 1: sort of this this that that this was all due

2509
02:23:30,240 --> 02:23:37,320
Speaker 1: to Roscoe Conkling and all of that. So yeah, let's

2510
02:23:37,360 --> 02:23:41,359
Speaker 1: just say that I am That's why I was disappointed

2511
02:23:41,400 --> 02:23:43,360
Speaker 1: it because I think two of the more fascinating parts

2512
02:23:43,360 --> 02:23:45,879
Speaker 1: of it. Look at they did an okay job at

2513
02:23:45,879 --> 02:23:48,600
Speaker 1: the convention, and they allowed that process to play out.

2514
02:23:49,120 --> 02:23:51,080
Speaker 1: I want to I got I'm obsessed with I'm going

2515
02:23:51,160 --> 02:23:54,640
Speaker 1: to end with this here. I'm obsessed with Purvis. And

2516
02:23:54,760 --> 02:23:57,440
Speaker 1: so during my during this long car trip I just

2517
02:23:57,440 --> 02:24:01,200
Speaker 1: took last week, I listen to a whole bunch of

2518
02:24:01,240 --> 02:24:06,040
Speaker 1: sort of companion. Pluribis podcasts, not some with the official podcast,

2519
02:24:06,120 --> 02:24:09,400
Speaker 1: but but some on our friends. The Ringer love those guys.

2520
02:24:09,400 --> 02:24:15,720
Speaker 1: The watch their enthusiasm is a lot of fun. And

2521
02:24:17,959 --> 02:24:24,519
Speaker 1: what Vince Gilligan is known for is showing you methodical process.

2522
02:24:24,879 --> 02:24:28,800
Speaker 1: Right Like if you watch Pluribus, every time she calls

2523
02:24:28,840 --> 02:24:31,800
Speaker 1: the phone spoiler lo Art and she's calling, you know,

2524
02:24:33,560 --> 02:24:38,880
Speaker 1: the hive mind for stuff in the show, you have

2525
02:24:38,959 --> 02:24:44,960
Speaker 1: to hear the entire message tape, recorded message play over

2526
02:24:45,040 --> 02:24:47,920
Speaker 1: and over. Right. He wants to show that process. He

2527
02:24:48,000 --> 02:24:51,160
Speaker 1: doesn't give you short shrift, he doesn't speed through it.

2528
02:24:51,240 --> 02:24:54,920
Speaker 1: He wants you to absorb the process of living. Having

2529
02:24:55,000 --> 02:24:57,480
Speaker 1: every time they have a conversation, she has to listen

2530
02:24:57,480 --> 02:25:00,160
Speaker 1: to that recording over and over again. And you have

2531
02:25:00,200 --> 02:25:04,320
Speaker 1: to do it too. I think what Death by Lightning

2532
02:25:04,440 --> 02:25:07,200
Speaker 1: didn't do is it was so rushed in trying to

2533
02:25:07,240 --> 02:25:09,440
Speaker 1: put everything that should have been an eight to ten

2534
02:25:09,480 --> 02:25:13,440
Speaker 1: episode mini series into four episodes. Because the folks that

2535
02:25:14,320 --> 02:25:16,080
Speaker 1: I don't know this, but I'm going to have an

2536
02:25:16,200 --> 02:25:19,200
Speaker 1: educated guest, folks at Netflix didn't think Garfield was going

2537
02:25:19,240 --> 02:25:21,879
Speaker 1: to be that interesting to people, that he was not

2538
02:25:21,959 --> 02:25:24,920
Speaker 1: a known character. Guiteau was not a known assassin all

2539
02:25:24,959 --> 02:25:27,280
Speaker 1: of those things. So they said, let's do this it

2540
02:25:27,320 --> 02:25:29,320
Speaker 1: as an experiment. It did well, and it shows it

2541
02:25:29,360 --> 02:25:32,720
Speaker 1: could have done eight, not four. But they took eight

2542
02:25:32,760 --> 02:25:36,879
Speaker 1: to ten episodes of content and shoved it into four,

2543
02:25:37,360 --> 02:25:40,120
Speaker 1: and they rushed things. They didn't show the process, show

2544
02:25:40,240 --> 02:25:43,960
Speaker 1: me the trial, show more of the medical care, show

2545
02:25:44,080 --> 02:25:47,440
Speaker 1: more of the convention. That's what Vince Gilligan would have

2546
02:25:47,440 --> 02:25:53,560
Speaker 1: done with the content, and that's not what was done here.

2547
02:26:02,360 --> 02:26:06,560
Speaker 1: All right, let me get to a little bit of

2548
02:26:06,760 --> 02:26:10,080
Speaker 1: my weekend, of my week ahead. In college football, we

2549
02:26:10,080 --> 02:26:13,320
Speaker 1: have no college football playf I will be I will

2550
02:26:13,320 --> 02:26:19,760
Speaker 1: be uploading two more at least three more drops before

2551
02:26:19,840 --> 02:26:23,320
Speaker 1: we get to the MIAMU Ohouse Gate game on December

2552
02:26:23,320 --> 02:26:25,400
Speaker 1: thirty first, so I will have a lot more to

2553
02:26:25,440 --> 02:26:29,280
Speaker 1: say about that game, I am. What's funny is that,

2554
02:26:29,400 --> 02:26:34,440
Speaker 1: you know, we fans, we never forget the slights against teams.

2555
02:26:34,480 --> 02:26:37,360
Speaker 1: We play like you know, Catholics versus Convicts. When it

2556
02:26:37,360 --> 02:26:39,640
Speaker 1: comes to Notre Dame, we'll shoot that happened in nineteen

2557
02:26:39,680 --> 02:26:42,320
Speaker 1: eighty eight. That's over thirty years ago, right, almost forty

2558
02:26:42,360 --> 02:26:47,080
Speaker 1: years ago. Now on that front, I brought up the

2559
02:26:47,080 --> 02:26:50,000
Speaker 1: Penn State game. I think that you know, my frustration

2560
02:26:50,120 --> 02:26:52,000
Speaker 1: back during that national title game, Well, that happened in

2561
02:26:52,040 --> 02:26:56,000
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, okay, and now we have Miami winning

2562
02:26:56,040 --> 02:26:57,960
Speaker 1: eleven games this year. It's the first time that's happened

2563
02:26:57,959 --> 02:27:00,680
Speaker 1: since before my daughter was born. And she's one years old,

2564
02:27:00,720 --> 02:27:04,920
Speaker 1: so you know this, you know, so my bitterness about

2565
02:27:04,920 --> 02:27:08,480
Speaker 1: Ohio State feels very recent. My bitterness about the Big

2566
02:27:08,520 --> 02:27:12,640
Speaker 1: twelve official who threw the unnecessary flag that handed Jim

2567
02:27:12,720 --> 02:27:18,960
Speaker 1: Tressel the controversial national title that year. Terry Porter is

2568
02:27:19,000 --> 02:27:23,000
Speaker 1: a name I'll never forget. I'm sorry, mister Porter. If

2569
02:27:23,000 --> 02:27:27,680
Speaker 1: you're a listener, you're you're you're probably tired of us

2570
02:27:27,720 --> 02:27:31,920
Speaker 1: Miami fans harassing you by name. Let's just say be

2571
02:27:32,040 --> 02:27:35,840
Speaker 1: glad that that that the the bad flag didn't happen

2572
02:27:35,920 --> 02:27:38,360
Speaker 1: in the social media era, and that that had happened

2573
02:27:38,400 --> 02:27:43,440
Speaker 1: back in January of two thousand and three. So, you know,

2574
02:27:43,560 --> 02:27:46,440
Speaker 1: Miami Ohio State is a quote unquote rivalry just lives

2575
02:27:46,440 --> 02:27:49,840
Speaker 1: in the minds of Miami fans twenty five years ago

2576
02:27:50,000 --> 02:27:53,520
Speaker 1: who were alive back then. It is not with today's

2577
02:27:53,520 --> 02:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Miami fans even you know, I have to explain it

2578
02:27:56,320 --> 02:28:00,720
Speaker 1: to my daughter, you show it. Okay, that's why it's

2579
02:28:00,760 --> 02:28:04,640
Speaker 1: not you know, it's not inherent on that front. So

2580
02:28:04,800 --> 02:28:08,680
Speaker 1: but needless to say, I'll have some interesting I'll have

2581
02:28:08,720 --> 02:28:14,760
Speaker 1: more to say about that game. But look, we're there

2582
02:28:14,800 --> 02:28:16,400
Speaker 1: are a few things that I actually wanted to bring

2583
02:28:16,480 --> 02:28:19,520
Speaker 1: up in the sports world that are off the field

2584
02:28:19,600 --> 02:28:22,959
Speaker 1: that I think are worth having a conversation about. First

2585
02:28:23,000 --> 02:28:27,840
Speaker 1: of all, are we suddenly moving? You know? One of

2586
02:28:27,879 --> 02:28:32,840
Speaker 1: the things in sports stadium developments was we've always go

2587
02:28:32,959 --> 02:28:36,760
Speaker 1: back and forth we go, and you can sort of

2588
02:28:36,800 --> 02:28:38,879
Speaker 1: see it in the landscape if you go to older

2589
02:28:38,920 --> 02:28:45,160
Speaker 1: major metropolitan areas. Right. So, when I first moved to Washington,

2590
02:28:45,640 --> 02:28:48,200
Speaker 1: all of the basketball games and hockey games were played

2591
02:28:48,200 --> 02:28:51,320
Speaker 1: in the suburbs. It was called the Capital Center. It

2592
02:28:51,360 --> 02:28:56,640
Speaker 1: was in Landover, Maryland. And back then you had arenas

2593
02:28:56,879 --> 02:29:01,000
Speaker 1: in suburban locations because there was this movement out of

2594
02:29:01,040 --> 02:29:04,039
Speaker 1: the cities and the rise of the suburbs. So sports

2595
02:29:04,080 --> 02:29:06,560
Speaker 1: owners thought they wanted to be where the people lived

2596
02:29:07,080 --> 02:29:10,960
Speaker 1: at night, not necessarily where the people worked in the day. Well, then,

2597
02:29:11,000 --> 02:29:13,720
Speaker 1: of course, another generation happens, and then there's a movement

2598
02:29:13,760 --> 02:29:17,680
Speaker 1: to bring all of the arenas and football stadiums back

2599
02:29:17,760 --> 02:29:20,560
Speaker 1: into cities, right, And we had this movement in the

2600
02:29:20,680 --> 02:29:26,920
Speaker 1: nineties and in the aughts where everything was being brought

2601
02:29:26,959 --> 02:29:30,199
Speaker 1: back into the cities. Well, in Washington, we're still trying

2602
02:29:30,240 --> 02:29:35,280
Speaker 1: to bring a stadium back into the cities. But if

2603
02:29:35,320 --> 02:29:38,600
Speaker 1: you've noticed, we are kind of in a period now

2604
02:29:38,640 --> 02:29:41,879
Speaker 1: where there is as much movement out of cities again

2605
02:29:42,080 --> 02:29:44,600
Speaker 1: as there is in sports stadiums coming into the cities.

2606
02:29:45,760 --> 02:29:48,920
Speaker 1: The first of this was Atlanta, where they decided they

2607
02:29:48,920 --> 02:29:51,720
Speaker 1: don't play in Atlanta anymore. They play in Cobb County, right,

2608
02:29:51,760 --> 02:29:55,160
Speaker 1: They left the city of Atlanta, and it's weird. It

2609
02:29:55,280 --> 02:29:57,039
Speaker 1: bums me that baseball is there, But it turns out

2610
02:29:57,080 --> 02:29:59,640
Speaker 1: it was the right business decision. They did this based

2611
02:29:59,680 --> 02:30:02,760
Speaker 1: on where are the majority of their fan base, and

2612
02:30:02,840 --> 02:30:05,600
Speaker 1: they decided it was Cobb County and it worked. You've

2613
02:30:05,600 --> 02:30:09,720
Speaker 1: got certainly Dallas, all right, You've got the hockey and

2614
02:30:09,760 --> 02:30:12,959
Speaker 1: basketball are in downtown Dallas, but the baseball and football

2615
02:30:13,040 --> 02:30:14,879
Speaker 1: are in the suburbs. And they continue to be in

2616
02:30:14,879 --> 02:30:18,599
Speaker 1: the suburbs. But then again, the sort of the Dallas metroplex.

2617
02:30:18,840 --> 02:30:20,920
Speaker 1: Is there a suburb anymore or is it just a

2618
02:30:21,040 --> 02:30:24,840
Speaker 1: series of cities. Arlington is growing like crazy, Frisco and

2619
02:30:24,959 --> 02:30:28,200
Speaker 1: Denton is growing like crazy. So it may be that

2620
02:30:28,240 --> 02:30:35,400
Speaker 1: those are forward looking things, but it is notable to

2621
02:30:35,400 --> 02:30:38,560
Speaker 1: me if the Chiefs made the decision to leave Kansas City, Missouri,

2622
02:30:38,879 --> 02:30:41,520
Speaker 1: and they're going to go to Kansas City, Kansas, which

2623
02:30:41,560 --> 02:30:43,720
Speaker 1: means I don't know how many of their fans are

2624
02:30:43,760 --> 02:30:45,680
Speaker 1: going to do that, but I'm guessing they got a

2625
02:30:45,720 --> 02:30:48,880
Speaker 1: better deal from Kansas to develop in Kansas than in

2626
02:30:48,959 --> 02:30:53,240
Speaker 1: Kansas City, Missouri. You've got the Chicago Bears threatening to

2627
02:30:53,320 --> 02:30:56,959
Speaker 1: move to another state and to pull what the Washington

2628
02:30:57,440 --> 02:31:01,720
Speaker 1: then Redskins now commanders did by moving from the district

2629
02:31:01,720 --> 02:31:04,600
Speaker 1: to the suburbs. Now they want to go back to

2630
02:31:04,680 --> 02:31:07,800
Speaker 1: the district because that's where their fans wanted them to be. Meanwhile,

2631
02:31:07,800 --> 02:31:11,160
Speaker 1: the Bears, who have this incredible set up Soldier Field,

2632
02:31:12,120 --> 02:31:14,760
Speaker 1: in some ways is in the perfect location in a

2633
02:31:14,800 --> 02:31:18,160
Speaker 1: city on the lake. I think it should be a

2634
02:31:18,200 --> 02:31:21,480
Speaker 1: tremendous home field advantage. Obviously, they want more luxury boxes,

2635
02:31:21,480 --> 02:31:23,160
Speaker 1: they want to make more money out of these things.

2636
02:31:24,120 --> 02:31:29,039
Speaker 1: But now they're talking about moving into Indiana to northwest Indiana.

2637
02:31:29,240 --> 02:31:32,400
Speaker 1: Is this really a good idea? Do you really want all.

2638
02:31:32,240 --> 02:31:32,920
Speaker 2: Of this there?

2639
02:31:35,120 --> 02:31:38,039
Speaker 1: This is a case where I bring this up because

2640
02:31:38,080 --> 02:31:41,520
Speaker 1: I think the NFL as a league does not get

2641
02:31:41,560 --> 02:31:43,959
Speaker 1: involved enough in these stadium decisions.

2642
02:31:44,280 --> 02:31:44,440
Speaker 2: Right.

2643
02:31:44,520 --> 02:31:47,280
Speaker 1: The most egregious thing that they let happen that I

2644
02:31:47,320 --> 02:31:50,400
Speaker 1: still think is a stain on the NFL is letting

2645
02:31:50,400 --> 02:31:53,200
Speaker 1: the Chargers leave San Diego. I mean, we now have

2646
02:31:53,240 --> 02:31:56,800
Speaker 1: a zombie franchise in LA. There is nobody that cares

2647
02:31:56,800 --> 02:31:59,800
Speaker 1: about the Chargers in LA. Unfortunately, I wish there were more.

2648
02:32:00,120 --> 02:32:02,080
Speaker 1: Know there's a handful of fans. Don't get me wrong,

2649
02:32:02,440 --> 02:32:06,520
Speaker 1: you all five LA Chargers fans. My apologies, but the

2650
02:32:06,560 --> 02:32:09,960
Speaker 1: San Diego fan base was tremendous. All right. You had

2651
02:32:10,000 --> 02:32:12,160
Speaker 1: an owner that had no trust with the community, and

2652
02:32:12,200 --> 02:32:14,360
Speaker 1: you have a community that didn't believe in taxpayer funding

2653
02:32:14,400 --> 02:32:17,760
Speaker 1: the stadiums. Okay, well, then the NFL should have stepped in.

2654
02:32:17,800 --> 02:32:21,240
Speaker 1: What's in the best interest of the NFL keeping their

2655
02:32:21,240 --> 02:32:24,000
Speaker 1: fan base in San Diego, not diluting this mess in LA.

2656
02:32:24,120 --> 02:32:26,760
Speaker 1: But instead, what did they really want? Well, they wanted

2657
02:32:26,760 --> 02:32:29,360
Speaker 1: to help an owner who couldn't afford a stadium he

2658
02:32:29,440 --> 02:32:32,920
Speaker 1: was building in so far and he wanted a second

2659
02:32:32,959 --> 02:32:37,959
Speaker 1: tenant in order to be able to have this magnificent stadium.

2660
02:32:38,000 --> 02:32:42,360
Speaker 1: So the NFL prioritized having this incredible stadium. God love

2661
02:32:42,400 --> 02:32:44,920
Speaker 1: it so fi. It's a beautiful stadium. It's a great,

2662
02:32:45,200 --> 02:32:49,119
Speaker 1: you know, host stadium for Super Bowls, for National title games,

2663
02:32:49,560 --> 02:32:54,160
Speaker 1: for Taylor Swift concerts, you name it. But without the

2664
02:32:54,160 --> 02:32:56,680
Speaker 1: guarantee of a second tenant, it was going to make

2665
02:32:56,720 --> 02:33:01,160
Speaker 1: it really hard for the owner to make that work.

2666
02:33:01,280 --> 02:33:05,920
Speaker 1: And so and so the NFL prioritized sort of an

2667
02:33:05,920 --> 02:33:09,040
Speaker 1: owner's needs over what was in the best interests of

2668
02:33:09,080 --> 02:33:13,600
Speaker 1: the fans. And I be really careful here, NFL letting

2669
02:33:13,640 --> 02:33:18,520
Speaker 1: the If the Bears end up moving to Indiana, I

2670
02:33:18,560 --> 02:33:21,720
Speaker 1: would argue the move out of the Washington to Maryland

2671
02:33:21,879 --> 02:33:24,640
Speaker 1: was a mistake and that was a Jack Cank Cook.

2672
02:33:24,720 --> 02:33:27,000
Speaker 1: Can't blame that one on Dan Schneider, all right, that

2673
02:33:27,040 --> 02:33:31,320
Speaker 1: was a Jack can Cook situation that turned out to

2674
02:33:31,320 --> 02:33:35,200
Speaker 1: be a bad business decision. Not just a bad fan decision,

2675
02:33:35,760 --> 02:33:40,320
Speaker 1: but bad fan decisions are bad business decisions. And in

2676
02:33:40,360 --> 02:33:43,879
Speaker 1: this case, I think the NFL needs to be smarter. Look,

2677
02:33:44,400 --> 02:33:47,600
Speaker 1: I know the only way owners can make money outside

2678
02:33:47,600 --> 02:33:50,520
Speaker 1: of the socialistic enterprise that is the National Football League,

2679
02:33:51,120 --> 02:33:53,440
Speaker 1: where you sort of have a salary cap and use

2680
02:33:53,560 --> 02:33:57,199
Speaker 1: all the shared revenue et cetera. Right that the only

2681
02:33:57,280 --> 02:34:01,080
Speaker 1: the differentiator for individual owners are the luxury boxes, are

2682
02:34:01,120 --> 02:34:05,840
Speaker 1: the season tickets, is the stadium experience, is parking, is concessions,

2683
02:34:05,879 --> 02:34:11,360
Speaker 1: et cetera. And I get that, but at the end

2684
02:34:11,360 --> 02:34:13,760
Speaker 1: of the day, the owners to me are not you know,

2685
02:34:13,800 --> 02:34:16,360
Speaker 1: these are not small businessmen. These are not the many

2686
02:34:16,440 --> 02:34:18,480
Speaker 1: of them are not the best in price when it

2687
02:34:18,480 --> 02:34:21,960
Speaker 1: comes to business decisions, and they're not always looking out

2688
02:34:22,000 --> 02:34:23,920
Speaker 1: for the interest of the NFL or the interests of

2689
02:34:23,920 --> 02:34:27,480
Speaker 1: the NFL fan base, and the league I think needs

2690
02:34:27,480 --> 02:34:29,879
Speaker 1: to get more involved in these stadium decisions because these

2691
02:34:29,879 --> 02:34:34,080
Speaker 1: are NFL facilities as well as team facilities. And considering

2692
02:34:34,080 --> 02:34:37,640
Speaker 1: you are a socialistic enterprise, this is not a free

2693
02:34:37,680 --> 02:34:42,680
Speaker 1: market system. It just isn't. Don't pretend it is every

2694
02:34:42,680 --> 02:34:45,199
Speaker 1: once in a while when it comes to stadium development.

2695
02:34:46,040 --> 02:34:49,120
Speaker 1: And I do think the NFL, you know, needs to

2696
02:34:49,160 --> 02:34:52,200
Speaker 1: preserve you know, it's it's kind of embarrassing that the

2697
02:34:52,240 --> 02:34:54,360
Speaker 1: New York teams don't play in New York. I think

2698
02:34:54,400 --> 02:34:56,560
Speaker 1: it would be embarrassing that the Chicago team didn't play

2699
02:34:56,560 --> 02:34:59,800
Speaker 1: in Chicago. And is it going to matter? Maybe in

2700
02:34:59,840 --> 02:35:01,720
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, maybe it doesn't matter in

2701
02:35:01,720 --> 02:35:04,200
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, but you sort of tear

2702
02:35:04,240 --> 02:35:07,360
Speaker 1: away at the fabric and at the culture of a town,

2703
02:35:07,840 --> 02:35:14,040
Speaker 1: and so you know, whether it's you know, making sure

2704
02:35:14,040 --> 02:35:17,360
Speaker 1: that Kansas City move isn't going to alienate a big

2705
02:35:17,440 --> 02:35:20,199
Speaker 1: chunk of the fan base, making sure the Bears going

2706
02:35:20,240 --> 02:35:24,000
Speaker 1: to Gary, Indiana isn't going to alienate the fan base,

2707
02:35:24,160 --> 02:35:28,720
Speaker 1: making sure that you don't abandon and basically lose out

2708
02:35:28,760 --> 02:35:33,520
Speaker 1: on a bunch of fans in San Diego that should

2709
02:35:33,560 --> 02:35:34,960
Speaker 1: still be its own fan. I mean, you have the

2710
02:35:35,040 --> 02:35:37,920
Speaker 1: Chargers are having a tremendous season and no one cares

2711
02:35:38,640 --> 02:35:42,359
Speaker 1: right and you know, look, you barely can get Angelino's

2712
02:35:42,400 --> 02:35:44,240
Speaker 1: to care that much about the Rams. But at least

2713
02:35:44,280 --> 02:35:48,200
Speaker 1: the Rams have some sort of identity and history in LA.

2714
02:35:49,040 --> 02:35:53,520
Speaker 1: And I do think I've got friends in LA whose

2715
02:35:53,600 --> 02:35:56,440
Speaker 1: kids have adopted the Rams. You have not seen the

2716
02:35:56,480 --> 02:35:59,840
Speaker 1: same adoption of the Chargers. Look, the Clippers shouldn't be

2717
02:35:59,879 --> 02:36:02,280
Speaker 1: in LA sharing a market with the Lakers. They should

2718
02:36:02,280 --> 02:36:05,720
Speaker 1: also probably be in San Diego, and the Chargers shouldn't

2719
02:36:05,720 --> 02:36:08,960
Speaker 1: be in that market because you realize the Chargers are

2720
02:36:08,959 --> 02:36:13,160
Speaker 1: the third team in that market. The Rams are one

2721
02:36:13,760 --> 02:36:16,200
Speaker 1: the raiders in Las Vegas are two because of their

2722
02:36:16,240 --> 02:36:20,800
Speaker 1: old ties to Los Angeles when they're good. USC is three,

2723
02:36:21,560 --> 02:36:27,280
Speaker 1: and then you finally get to the LA Chargers. But

2724
02:36:27,400 --> 02:36:30,199
Speaker 1: that is something that needs to go in there very quickly.

2725
02:36:31,640 --> 02:36:35,000
Speaker 1: Your weekend guide to viewing and conversations you want to

2726
02:36:35,040 --> 02:36:38,240
Speaker 1: have to change to look like you're on top of

2727
02:36:38,280 --> 02:36:41,640
Speaker 1: things in the sports world. One thing you can mock

2728
02:36:41,720 --> 02:36:45,160
Speaker 1: and make fun of is how Netflix did a terrible

2729
02:36:45,280 --> 02:36:49,000
Speaker 1: job of guessing which games would be relevant and which

2730
02:36:49,040 --> 02:36:55,600
Speaker 1: ones which ones weren't. So other than gamblers, there really

2731
02:36:55,680 --> 02:37:00,000
Speaker 1: is no reason to watch The Christmas games are Chris

2732
02:37:00,160 --> 02:37:04,760
Speaker 1: get Cowboys Commanders totally meaningless Commanders. Maybe with a third

2733
02:37:04,800 --> 02:37:09,080
Speaker 1: string quarterback, we won't even have Tyler Hennike Heinike to

2734
02:37:09,840 --> 02:37:14,000
Speaker 1: root for or enjoy. Lions Vikings. Lions need a lot

2735
02:37:14,000 --> 02:37:16,080
Speaker 1: of help. They got to win two games and hope

2736
02:37:16,080 --> 02:37:21,080
Speaker 1: the Packers lose two games on that front. In Broncos Chiefs,

2737
02:37:21,080 --> 02:37:23,040
Speaker 1: Broncos are playing for a piece of the one seed

2738
02:37:24,160 --> 02:37:28,080
Speaker 1: and they should annihilate the Chiefs given the Chiefs are

2739
02:37:28,080 --> 02:37:30,959
Speaker 1: now going to be on a third string quarterback on

2740
02:37:30,959 --> 02:37:34,200
Speaker 1: this front, So you know what that means. It means

2741
02:37:36,000 --> 02:37:38,800
Speaker 1: and I can't believe I'm saying this, but the Christmas

2742
02:37:38,879 --> 02:37:43,000
Speaker 1: Day NBA games are more watchable than the Christmas Day

2743
02:37:43,080 --> 02:37:47,240
Speaker 1: NFL games. Look, the NFL tried to basically bully the NBA,

2744
02:37:47,360 --> 02:37:49,920
Speaker 1: and it really did ruin NBA last year the NBA

2745
02:37:50,000 --> 02:37:53,039
Speaker 1: Christmas Day games last year. But guess what karma is

2746
02:37:53,040 --> 02:37:57,039
Speaker 1: a you know what, and the NFL thought, we're putting.

2747
02:37:56,720 --> 02:37:58,800
Speaker 2: On the Cowboys and Patrick.

2748
02:37:58,440 --> 02:38:03,880
Speaker 1: Mahomes, We're going to be great. Whoops, not so much, right,

2749
02:38:04,000 --> 02:38:08,080
Speaker 1: not so fast. So instead you get what I think

2750
02:38:08,400 --> 02:38:12,120
Speaker 1: is that I'll give you three games all. Look, the

2751
02:38:12,200 --> 02:38:16,440
Speaker 1: five games are good, but I would argue three stand apart,

2752
02:38:16,520 --> 02:38:18,880
Speaker 1: and you could say four of the five are worth watching,

2753
02:38:18,920 --> 02:38:21,640
Speaker 1: but they're even an opening game Cavs Nicks. I love

2754
02:38:21,680 --> 02:38:24,640
Speaker 1: watching Jalen Brunson play basketball, and if you haven't seen

2755
02:38:24,720 --> 02:38:27,640
Speaker 1: him play this year, this isn't a waste your time.

2756
02:38:28,000 --> 02:38:31,440
Speaker 1: But the best game is the one, hopefully that starts

2757
02:38:31,480 --> 02:38:34,560
Speaker 1: before you eat your Christmas dinner, and that is Spurs

2758
02:38:34,640 --> 02:38:38,240
Speaker 1: Thunder Wemby Baby, the best team in the league against

2759
02:38:38,280 --> 02:38:41,120
Speaker 1: the best player in the league or the most unstoppable

2760
02:38:41,120 --> 02:38:42,280
Speaker 1: player in the league. I don't know if he's the

2761
02:38:42,320 --> 02:38:46,640
Speaker 1: best yet, but my God when it is just he

2762
02:38:46,680 --> 02:38:49,480
Speaker 1: does things you don't see other ordinary human beings do.

2763
02:38:50,040 --> 02:38:52,840
Speaker 1: He's the alien, right, He's the one of one, whatever

2764
02:38:52,879 --> 02:38:56,080
Speaker 1: you want to call it, it is amazing. Go watch

2765
02:38:56,160 --> 02:38:59,000
Speaker 1: some Wemby if you haven't been a fan of the NBA.

2766
02:38:59,440 --> 02:39:04,000
Speaker 1: Watch this is the future Oklahoma City as a team

2767
02:39:04,200 --> 02:39:07,280
Speaker 1: and Wemby as an individual. This is the future of

2768
02:39:07,320 --> 02:39:12,359
Speaker 1: basketball being played on heights. We've never seen the game played.

2769
02:39:12,400 --> 02:39:13,040
Speaker 2: Go watch it.

2770
02:39:13,440 --> 02:39:15,960
Speaker 1: The next game Mavericks Warriors. You get to see a

2771
02:39:16,000 --> 02:39:18,640
Speaker 1: little bit of Cooper Flag. This dude is for real,

2772
02:39:19,480 --> 02:39:21,480
Speaker 1: a lot of fun to watch. Plus you get Steph Curry,

2773
02:39:21,480 --> 02:39:24,560
Speaker 1: so you get old and new, young and old Steph Curry,

2774
02:39:24,879 --> 02:39:27,240
Speaker 1: I think technically old enough to beat Cooper Flag's father,

2775
02:39:27,320 --> 02:39:29,760
Speaker 1: that's the age difference between the two. But it was like,

2776
02:39:30,120 --> 02:39:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, getting to watch the brief period. We got

2777
02:39:33,800 --> 02:39:36,760
Speaker 1: to watch the overlap between Kobe and Lebron. You get

2778
02:39:36,760 --> 02:39:40,200
Speaker 1: to see this overlap between Cooper Flag and Steph Curry.

2779
02:39:40,400 --> 02:39:44,840
Speaker 1: Rockets Lakers. Hey, it's Luca versus the All Star team

2780
02:39:44,879 --> 02:39:48,320
Speaker 1: that is the Rockets with Kevin Durant and all these

2781
02:39:48,360 --> 02:39:52,360
Speaker 1: new young players that are absolutely worth watching on that front,

2782
02:39:52,400 --> 02:39:56,520
Speaker 1: and then the nightcap is Nuggets Timberwolves, and there's nobody

2783
02:39:56,520 --> 02:39:59,520
Speaker 1: that there are two people I really enjoy watching play

2784
02:39:59,560 --> 02:40:02,039
Speaker 1: basketball these days. One is Victor one Banyama and the

2785
02:40:02,040 --> 02:40:06,280
Speaker 1: other is NICOLEA. Jokic and Nuggets timber Buls And and

2786
02:40:06,360 --> 02:40:08,680
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a I've got a soft spot for

2787
02:40:08,680 --> 02:40:11,440
Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards. So I think this is a day and

2788
02:40:11,480 --> 02:40:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm normally you don't hear me as a big proponent

2789
02:40:13,720 --> 02:40:17,000
Speaker 1: of regular season NBA, but good for the NBA, this

2790
02:40:17,160 --> 02:40:19,880
Speaker 1: is a great showcase. The NFL blew it thought they

2791
02:40:19,920 --> 02:40:23,160
Speaker 1: were showcasing some of their some of their best teams

2792
02:40:23,160 --> 02:40:26,680
Speaker 1: and some of their most marketable teams, and it imploded

2793
02:40:26,720 --> 02:40:29,840
Speaker 1: in their face. They get that. As far as bowls

2794
02:40:29,959 --> 02:40:35,760
Speaker 1: over the next few days that are worth you disrupting things,

2795
02:40:37,640 --> 02:40:40,200
Speaker 1: take a look at the Cal Hawaii game. Hawaii's been

2796
02:40:40,800 --> 02:40:44,360
Speaker 1: sneaky good this year. It's not gonna look good for

2797
02:40:44,360 --> 02:40:46,480
Speaker 1: the ACC, but this will be a semi home game

2798
02:40:46,480 --> 02:40:50,359
Speaker 1: for Hawaii. That'll be a fascinating fun day after Christmas.

2799
02:40:52,240 --> 02:40:54,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest, none of the games are worth watching.

2800
02:40:54,480 --> 02:40:57,879
Speaker 1: There's no if you're saying I've got to watch college

2801
02:40:57,879 --> 02:41:01,160
Speaker 1: football the day after Christmas on the twin six. You're

2802
02:41:01,160 --> 02:41:04,080
Speaker 1: either an alum of Central Michigan in Northwestern that's the

2803
02:41:04,080 --> 02:41:07,920
Speaker 1: noon game. You're an alum of Minnesota New Mexico, although

2804
02:41:08,280 --> 02:41:10,400
Speaker 1: watching New Mexico beat Minnesota would be a lot of

2805
02:41:10,400 --> 02:41:12,120
Speaker 1: fun seeing the Big Ten lose to a team like

2806
02:41:12,160 --> 02:41:15,640
Speaker 1: New Mexico. And then there's you know, the Fighting pit

2807
02:41:15,720 --> 02:41:19,199
Speaker 1: Bulls aka FIU in its first Bowl game in a while,

2808
02:41:19,600 --> 02:41:24,280
Speaker 1: playing the football program that was created by a former

2809
02:41:24,360 --> 02:41:28,600
Speaker 1: University MIMI head coach, Larry Coker ut San Antonio. But

2810
02:41:28,680 --> 02:41:30,840
Speaker 1: let's be honest, none of those are worth it. I

2811
02:41:30,879 --> 02:41:33,879
Speaker 1: will say this. The Saturday games are a lot of fun.

2812
02:41:34,240 --> 02:41:36,400
Speaker 1: You've got Penn State Clemson would be a lot more

2813
02:41:36,440 --> 02:41:39,680
Speaker 1: fun as a meaningful game, but still not a bad

2814
02:41:40,440 --> 02:41:43,280
Speaker 1: game that's going to be played in Yankee Stadium. You've

2815
02:41:43,280 --> 02:41:46,240
Speaker 1: got Georgia Tech BYU. This should be Notre Dame BYU,

2816
02:41:46,320 --> 02:41:49,000
Speaker 1: but we're going to get Notre Dame BYU is a

2817
02:41:49,080 --> 02:41:51,120
Speaker 1: series which, by the way, what a great series. The

2818
02:41:51,160 --> 02:41:55,560
Speaker 1: Mormons versus the Catholics, Right, that'll be a lot of fun. Sorry,

2819
02:41:55,680 --> 02:41:58,560
Speaker 1: USC that you guys are afraid of your playing nine

2820
02:41:58,560 --> 02:42:00,000
Speaker 1: Big Ten games and you don't want to play note

2821
02:42:00,120 --> 02:42:02,280
Speaker 1: name every year. God bless you. But you know what,

2822
02:42:02,360 --> 02:42:04,360
Speaker 1: BYU Notited Dame feels like a pretty good series. But

2823
02:42:04,400 --> 02:42:06,840
Speaker 1: b WHYU Georgia Tech isn't a bad second place? And

2824
02:42:06,920 --> 02:42:09,560
Speaker 1: I think both teams will care never bet on the

2825
02:42:09,640 --> 02:42:12,800
Speaker 1: grown ass men of BYU. Remember they're all in their

2826
02:42:13,240 --> 02:42:17,240
Speaker 1: early twenties because they've all done their missions, so you

2827
02:42:17,240 --> 02:42:20,440
Speaker 1: don't have the misspent youth if you will. And then

2828
02:42:20,480 --> 02:42:24,800
Speaker 1: the other game that I mildly interested in is whoever's

2829
02:42:24,800 --> 02:42:30,600
Speaker 1: suiting up for LSU playing the Houston Cougars. Houston's a

2830
02:42:30,640 --> 02:42:33,560
Speaker 1: school that I have a feeling is only going to

2831
02:42:33,640 --> 02:42:37,000
Speaker 1: become more of a player in college athletics. They already

2832
02:42:37,000 --> 02:42:40,120
Speaker 1: are in college basketball. There's real money down there at

2833
02:42:40,160 --> 02:42:44,119
Speaker 1: that campus. There's real enthusiasm, it's a growing alumni base.

2834
02:42:44,879 --> 02:42:47,640
Speaker 1: I just have a feeling Houston has a chance to

2835
02:42:47,640 --> 02:42:50,760
Speaker 1: be to be interesting there. So there's your weekend guide,

2836
02:42:51,959 --> 02:42:55,200
Speaker 1: a little bit of a few little nuggets to have

2837
02:42:55,240 --> 02:42:57,760
Speaker 1: fun conversations with about sports, to make it look like

2838
02:42:58,400 --> 02:43:03,520
Speaker 1: you have an athletic subscription. But be careful trying to

2839
02:43:03,560 --> 02:43:06,000
Speaker 1: use some of these games as an excuse to to

2840
02:43:06,240 --> 02:43:12,520
Speaker 1: avoid relatives, because honestly, there's the NBA is really the

2841
02:43:12,600 --> 02:43:16,320
Speaker 1: only thing that's worth worth saying. Hey, let's set let's

2842
02:43:16,480 --> 02:43:19,160
Speaker 1: let's set the snacks down a minute, let's check this out.

2843
02:43:20,400 --> 02:43:24,120
Speaker 1: So enjoy, enjoy your holiday. Like I said, I will

2844
02:43:24,120 --> 02:43:26,560
Speaker 1: have one more feed drop this week. It's sort of

2845
02:43:26,600 --> 02:43:30,320
Speaker 1: a repackage of an interview I do with Jasmine Crockett.

2846
02:43:30,320 --> 02:43:31,880
Speaker 1: But I do have some new information at the top

2847
02:43:31,920 --> 02:43:34,600
Speaker 1: of that, so it is worth your time there. And

2848
02:43:34,680 --> 02:43:38,560
Speaker 1: with that I will I'll see you next week after

2849
02:43:39,120 --> 02:43:42,320
Speaker 1: the Christmas holidays. I hope you have a safe, happy

2850
02:43:42,440 --> 02:43:43,760
Speaker 1: and healthy long Legion