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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: I try to.

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Speaker 1: Break myself with bad habits, and I've failed more times

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Speaker 1: than i'll succeed. But one thing I have succeeded in

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Speaker 1: over the years. I never thought I'd be able to

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Speaker 1: do this because I did it for so long. Was

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Speaker 1: I have stopped biting my nails. I just forced myself

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Speaker 1: into the idea. First off, it's an indication. I think

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Speaker 1: when you bite your nails and people see your hands,

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Speaker 1: that can learn a lot about you. They can learn

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Speaker 1: that you're probably, perhaps in my case at least, you're

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Speaker 1: riddled with anxiety. And I think that people do it

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Speaker 1: to self soothe, even when you don't have any nails

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Speaker 1: to bite. You ever see somebody just sticks their tips

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Speaker 1: of their fingers in their mouth and just come to you.

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Speaker 1: It's very unattractive when you think about it. Also, I

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Speaker 1: think that there's a health reason too. My grandmother used

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Speaker 1: to tell me that I would get worms, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not, if I bit my nails. But today on

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Speaker 1: Body Bags, we're we're going to talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about fingernails. We're going to talk about fingernails from an

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Speaker 1: evidentiary standpoint. Maybe we'll learn a thing to do. But

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Speaker 1: I can tell you this. We're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: how fingernails actually point.

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Speaker 2: To a murderer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags, Dave.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get too personally, however, you know

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Speaker 1: our own personal habits and whatnot. You ever had trouble

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Speaker 1: or find yourself biting your nails when you get nervous?

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Speaker 1: Is that something that's ever affected you in anyway? It's

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Speaker 1: not something most people think of, I think, but I

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Speaker 1: always always look at people's hands. I always look at

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Speaker 1: their nails. It's just this thing that I have.

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Speaker 3: I've never build them, like down to the quick and stuff.

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Speaker 3: I've never done that. But you know, keep them trimmed.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't get manny petties or anything, but I try

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Speaker 3: to keep them, you know, manageable. But I usually you know,

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Speaker 3: he's a pair of scissors or whatever's convenient, you know,

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Speaker 3: But no, I don't bite them.

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Speaker 1: Well, as long as they're you're not using a steak.

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Speaker 3: I feel okay, I feel ok come buy ally invite

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Speaker 3: you for dinner. We'll have steak and baked potato. Oh sorry,

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Speaker 3: and that fingernail I apologize it just is there in

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Speaker 3: the drawer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, fingernails are a curious thing. But you know,

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Speaker 1: for most of us, and certainly when we look at

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Speaker 1: this from an investigative standpoint, we talk about fingerprints on

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Speaker 1: body bags, right, but you know, you can leave marks

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Speaker 1: behind with fingernails as well, and so that's something that

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Speaker 1: we really explore in forensics.

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Speaker 3: We know today we're talking about the death of Destiny Ducket.

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Speaker 3: Destiny was only twenty two years old and she was

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Speaker 3: found dead by a cousin who went to visit and

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Speaker 3: knocked on the door, and Destiny didn't come to the door.

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Speaker 3: She couldn't get in, the doors locked, and so she

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Speaker 3: called police and said, can you help me because she

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Speaker 3: heard a baby crying inside. Destiny had a two month

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Speaker 3: old son, and her cousin could hear the baby crying inside,

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Speaker 3: but she couldn't get Destiny on the phone.

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Speaker 2: She didn't get her to come to the.

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Speaker 3: Door, and so a nine one one call was made

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Speaker 3: and they made entry into the apartment and found Destiny

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Speaker 3: dead on the floor and her two month old baby,

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Speaker 3: a two month old eight weeks two month old baby

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Speaker 3: crying screaming on the bed.

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Speaker 1: You know, I hate these kind of cases. I don't

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Speaker 1: want you to think that I like more. I like

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Speaker 1: other homicides more than I do certain other ones. But

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Speaker 1: you know, when you anytime that you kind of couple

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Speaker 1: this this idea of children, you know, in this environment,

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Speaker 1: and they are literally left behind. And I'll back up

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Speaker 1: just a second and I'll tell you for those that

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Speaker 1: have not heard me on the Piked massacre, which my

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Speaker 1: friends at KT Studio produced, I was on that on

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Speaker 1: that program and still continue to interact with with that

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Speaker 1: case on television as well. There were three kids in

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Speaker 1: that multiple homicide, eight people killed in one night, and

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Speaker 1: there were three kids involved in that. Couple of infants

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Speaker 1: that were left that were left at those scenes alive,

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Speaker 1: you know, rolling around in the blood of their executed parents.

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Speaker 1: And you think, you know, killing killing another adult human

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Speaker 1: being is brutal, but when you leave behind a child

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Speaker 1: in this environment, it kind of it goes to another

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Speaker 1: level of horror. I think because you don't you have

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Speaker 1: no idea, you have no idea what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: to that precious baby, no idea whatsoever, And it just

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Speaker 1: shows a level of callousness that I don't know that

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Speaker 1: we can really plumb.

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Speaker 3: The depths of day now you think about it, because

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Speaker 3: you do have. The mother is deceased and the baby

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Speaker 3: is left to fend for himself. He's eight weeks old.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: The person that commits the murder knows there's a baby here,

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Speaker 3: and knows the baby is crying, and leaves willingly the

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Speaker 3: dead body of the baby's mother and the baby by

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Speaker 3: itself to find for himself, which he cannot do. So

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Speaker 3: in essence, he's creating an opportunity for the baby to

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Speaker 3: also die unless the mother is found, and if the

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Speaker 3: cousin doesn't come by when she does, there's no telling

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Speaker 3: what could have happened. Or What we do know, though,

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Speaker 3: is that immediately, as police always do, we have a

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Speaker 3: homicide because she obviously did not kill herself like this

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Speaker 3: in the state that she's in. Well, I guess, I

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Speaker 3: say obviously, but I guess it's not obvious when you

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Speaker 3: find a dead body. I'm sure there are circumstances Joe,

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Speaker 3: that you've come into that we went, well, this individual

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Speaker 3: could have taken their own life. But as this investigation began,

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Speaker 3: they immediately started thinking, Okay, who was here? There are

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Speaker 3: security in this day and age between ring door bells

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Speaker 3: and surveillance video being so affordable now, a lot of

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Speaker 3: businesses have it, and in this case, businesses and personal

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Speaker 3: surveillance videos actually was able to show who went in

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Speaker 3: and out of the doors at this particular place where

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Speaker 3: Destiny lived. And it didn't take long for police to

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Speaker 3: actually find the person they were looking for. Not right away,

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Speaker 3: not the first day, but they did find Jared Rahim

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Speaker 3: abdul Ali. They had found in their investigation that he

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Speaker 3: had actually gone to the apartment and they arrested him

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Speaker 3: for that. The reason they arrested Jared Rahim abdul Ali

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Speaker 3: after they saw him on video going into the apartment

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Speaker 3: is because she had a protection order against him and

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Speaker 3: Destiny Duckett. In this protection order, he was not allowed

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Speaker 3: near her or his son. The two month old was

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Speaker 3: the son of Jared Rahim abdul Ali.

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Speaker 1: Now let me get this, hang on, hang on, let's

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Speaker 1: get this street. Yes, this is not some stranger off

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Speaker 1: of the street that did this.

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Speaker 3: Well, they don't know that. They don't know that right

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Speaker 3: at first, they don't know it. Joe's right, see, because

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Speaker 3: when I was investigating this, they said that the suspect

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Speaker 3: was already in custody when they interviewed him, and they

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Speaker 3: kept saying that. All the reports said the suspect is

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Speaker 3: in custody on another charge, on a different charge, And

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Speaker 3: I had to dig through this to find out that

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Speaker 3: the reason Jared Rahim Abdul Ali was in jail on

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Speaker 3: a previous charge. The previous charge was he was in

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Speaker 3: jail because they saw him entering the apartment while they

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Speaker 3: were investigating the murder. They didn't have evidence to charge

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Speaker 3: him with the murder, but they were able to put

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Speaker 3: him in jail for breaking the TPO, the temporary protection

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Speaker 3: order that was against him. Destiny had filed that, and

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Speaker 3: so by him being at her apartment, they were able

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Speaker 3: to put him in jail on that charge while they

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Speaker 3: investigated the murder. Now, I don't know how quickly police

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Speaker 3: jump from one conclusion to the next. I'm assuming they don't. Joe,

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Speaker 3: you're much more aware of how they think than I do.

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Speaker 3: I look at something and I think, well, it's obvious.

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Speaker 3: You know, he was seen going into her apartment. She's

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Speaker 3: now found dead, the baby's unharmed. But you guys can't

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Speaker 3: do that as investigators. You have to figure out everything

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Speaker 3: and get it all in order. Before you can sit

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Speaker 3: down and charge somebody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you do, and you try to logically pace yourself,

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Speaker 1: I think through all of the steps of the investigation,

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Speaker 1: because you listen, the worst thing you can do is

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Speaker 1: to jump to any kind of conclusion about what might be,

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Speaker 1: because that's.

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Speaker 3: Possible that he could have gone there to visit against

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Speaker 3: the right and left and somebody else came through and

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Speaker 3: killed her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's certainly a possibility. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: guess that there are a lot of other possibilities that

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Speaker 1: might exist too, and you have to entertain these and

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Speaker 1: try to pair them down logically as an investigator, to

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Speaker 1: try to get an first off look. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that we really dig into when we have cases

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Speaker 1: like this is that, and I've said this before, we

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Speaker 1: look into the circle of intimates involved in a case.

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Speaker 1: Who who knows destiny, who knows her, who would impact

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Speaker 1: her life, who would be so angry with this twenty

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Speaker 1: two year old mother of a two month old child

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Speaker 1: that they would in fact take their hands, wrap them

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Speaker 1: around her throat, and, according to a forensic pathologist, choke

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Speaker 1: her for as long as fifteen minutes. If we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a case Dave I'm always I am always going

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Speaker 1: to look at the inner circle. You have to. You

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Speaker 1: have to because it's the inner circle. Well, the way

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Speaker 1: I describe it is the person's life, the victim's life

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Speaker 1: is like if you think about a target, like a

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Speaker 1: standard target that has a bull's eye right in the

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Speaker 1: center the body, and the victim is that bull's eye,

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Speaker 1: and then everything else just kind of radiates out from there.

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Speaker 1: And I have to prove, prove or disprove those things

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Speaker 1: contained within the bullseye in the immediate circle adjacent to

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Speaker 1: that person, and there remains and then it extends out

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Speaker 1: from there.

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Speaker 3: Do you have to kind of do a parallel thing,

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Speaker 3: Like you've got the inner circle of the boyfriend or

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Speaker 3: ex boyfriend, but there's also the possibility that maybe of

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Speaker 3: somebody else. So do you have to Okay, we've got

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Speaker 3: this one thing. We're going to check out the family

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Speaker 3: and friends, but also look for everything else that's available.

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Speaker 3: I mean it seems kind of yeah, crazy, But don't

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Speaker 3: you have to?

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Speaker 1: Because no, no, absolutely you do. You have to, And

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Speaker 1: I would here's here's something else to consider too, you

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Speaker 1: know how you know, and you could probably hear my

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Speaker 1: voice about the the two month old. Yeah, you and

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Speaker 1: I both have a heart for babies, and police officers

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Speaker 1: do too. Say what you will about cops you come across,

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Speaker 1: you come across an environment that has a child where

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Speaker 1: they're impactedarticularly a child that is this helpless and we're

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Speaker 1: talking about a two month old day I know, and

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about the police are going to put the

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Speaker 1: spurs to this one. They are really really going to

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Speaker 1: show up and they're ready to work, and they're gonna

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Speaker 1: they're going to try there, and this is the measure

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Speaker 1: they're going to take up. And it's kind of the

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Speaker 1: reaction I had early on. Who in the right mind

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Speaker 1: would do this and then leave leave a two month

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Speaker 1: old in this environment because there's no guarantee that she's

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Speaker 1: going to be found. That is the mother, the relative

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Speaker 1: that shows up. I guess on one hand, you could

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Speaker 1: look at it and say it's dumb luck. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's dumb luck that that she came by, and I

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Speaker 1: know she's worried about her, obviously they have a relationship,

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Speaker 1: but you know the fact that she did find her.

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Speaker 1: What if something had happened, What if something that in

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Speaker 1: this relative's life that they have to go do something

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Speaker 1: else they have to go to work, or maybe they

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Speaker 1: have their own kids, or maybe.

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Speaker 2: If the baby's not crying.

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Speaker 1: Joe, what if the baby's not crying and that was.

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Speaker 3: What got them to call the night that's bow nine

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Speaker 3: one one got there though. Absolutely, if the baby's not crying,

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Speaker 3: there's no reason to break down the.

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Speaker 1: Door, the no reason whatsoever. So you think about you

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Speaker 1: think about that, and that's what kind of ignites it.

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Speaker 1: I think in any not just this case, but any

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Speaker 1: case where the police are investigating case that involves a

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Speaker 1: small child, because it is the litmus test, you begin

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Speaker 1: to kind of profile the individual that would have perpetrated

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Speaker 1: this kind of crime. You're looking at somebody that is

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Speaker 1: so callous and disengaged with what we would consider normal

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Speaker 1: behavior that who's to say that this individual won't go

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Speaker 1: on to kill somebody else, right, I mean, just think

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Speaker 1: about it. I mean, it's one thing to fly into

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Speaker 1: a rage and kill somebody, all right, But if you're

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Speaker 1: going to do this and leave a baby in your wake,

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Speaker 1: there's no limit to what you might potentially do.

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Speaker 2: Dave, we had the investigation.

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Speaker 3: Actually, as they dug into it, they arrested Abdulahli because

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Speaker 3: they saw him entering the apartment the night before her

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Speaker 3: body was found. Her body was found on February thirteenth,

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Speaker 3: about eleven o'clock in the morning. They saw him going

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Speaker 3: into our apartment before midnight on the night of the twelfth,

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Speaker 3: when you flash forward to what we know by he's

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Speaker 3: going into our house before midnight, and then the next

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Speaker 3: day at eleven oh three when the cousin calls nine

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Speaker 3: to one one and they find a Destiny Ducket dead

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Speaker 3: and the baby crying. So there's at least ten or

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Speaker 3: eleven hours there probably lag, yeah, between the time that

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Speaker 3: Destiny Ducket has been murdered and uh, and the baby

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Speaker 3: is crying, and if the baby's not screaming and crying

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Speaker 3: when the cousin comes to the door, there's no reason

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Speaker 3: to enter in there. Knock on the door. She's not answering.

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Speaker 3: But thankfully that was what got the police to go. Okay,

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Speaker 3: Abdullah Lee couldn't be here because he she had a

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Speaker 3: TPO against him or a PA whatever it's called there

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Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania, PFA, I think is what it's called. And

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Speaker 3: by him being at the apartment that they saw and

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Speaker 3: while they're investigating the murder, they see him entering on

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Speaker 3: February twelfth against the PFA order, so they were able

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Speaker 3: to pick him up, put him in jail. Now he's

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Speaker 3: on ice. Now they're investigating Joe and baby's being taken

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Speaker 3: care of by somebody. And now they have the body.

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Speaker 3: Do they start by dusting the entire apartment? Do they

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Speaker 3: start by removing the body? What did they use? No?

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Speaker 1: Well, first off, everything again, let me go back to

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Speaker 1: my analogy with the bulls eye. When you're working the scene,

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Speaker 1: this has nothing to do with suspects. This has everything

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Speaker 1: to do with the scene. Scene is worked concentric to

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Speaker 1: the body. So being concentric as opposed to eccentric. I'm

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Speaker 1: a college professor and there's a lot of US college

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Speaker 1: professors that are very eccentric. You've heard that term. You

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Speaker 1: don't hear the term concentric very often.

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Speaker 3: I used to think y'all were so smart until I

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Speaker 3: met you guys, and then y'all are nuts.

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Speaker 1: There you go, we are, no, not in my case

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Speaker 1: at least, I can't speak to I can only speak

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Speaker 1: to my situation, and yes I am not. So there

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Speaker 1: you go. I've confirmed it. But yeah, So at a

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Speaker 1: crime scene, you think about working the case concentrically, so

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Speaker 1: and again this is no disrespect to the dead. But

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Speaker 1: let's look at this from a practical scientific standpoint. From

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Speaker 1: a forensic standpoint, the body, in all cases where there

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Speaker 1: is a body present, is the single largest piece of

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Speaker 1: evidence that you have everything else. It's the font that

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Speaker 1: everything else springs from. Okay, and so you work out

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Speaker 1: from that body. In most cases, we try to work

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Speaker 1: the scene with the body present as long as we

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Speaker 1: possibly can, and then remove the body. But one of

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Speaker 1: the problems you encounter at a scene with a body

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Speaker 1: in dwelling is that you have to be very careful

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Speaker 1: when that body is being removed from the scene because

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Speaker 1: you don't want to disrupt anything peripheral to the remains,

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Speaker 1: like coffee tables, sofas, debris on the floor that lead

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Speaker 1: to the body. Maybe you've got a blood trail that

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Speaker 1: literally leads to the body, and you have to weigh

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Speaker 1: this out on balance. If we remove the body, are

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Speaker 1: we running the risk of destroying something or rearranging something,

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Speaker 1: or Because it's all about the relationship to the physical

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Speaker 1: evidence relative to the remains, you know what kind of

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Speaker 1: actions took place that brought about the death of the subject.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes at scenes, you will have multiple teams of people

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Speaker 1: that are doing different things. So let's just say you've

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Speaker 1: got the me investigator, corner investigator that's examined the body.

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Speaker 1: You'll probably have the lead detective in the room. Then

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Speaker 1: you're going to have a photographer that's there that's taking

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Speaker 1: like three hundred and sixty degree views of the body.

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Speaker 1: They're doing macro and microphotography. And then you depend upon

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Speaker 1: the department, You're going to have a print person that's

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Speaker 1: there and they're going to go over particular areas where

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Speaker 1: they can dust for prints, particularly on surfaces that you

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Speaker 1: might be looking for latent prints. You think about bathroom surfaces,

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Speaker 1: even the table, maybe the coffee table adjacent to the sofa.

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Speaker 1: The sofa, if it's a poor surface like a cloth

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Speaker 1: or something, you're not going to be able to lift anything.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there's a drink container that's sitting there that has

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Speaker 1: just been left and no one took it to the

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Speaker 1: kitchen to put it in the sink or the dishwasher.

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Speaker 1: You're going to print that. And the other thing relative

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Speaker 1: to all of this is that when you have a

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Speaker 1: case like this poor woman that has been brutally murdered,

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Speaker 1: there could be intimate evidence that's there. I mean, like

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Speaker 1: at a molecular level. So if I dust an area,

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Speaker 1: is there a chance is there a chance that I

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Speaker 1: might disrupt any kind of DNA evidence that might be

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Speaker 1: a scene in the scene. So when we manage cases,

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Speaker 1: you're managing it extending out from the scene where you're

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Speaker 1: going around you're looking for suspects. But then you have

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Speaker 1: to manage the case as it applies to the scene itself,

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Speaker 1: and you have to be meticulous about it, and you

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Speaker 1: literally document every step that you take along the way

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Speaker 1: because all that you do is going to be drawn

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Speaker 1: into question. So the police up in Pottsville, Pennsylvania, they

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Speaker 1: do have a mystery on their hand. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: have a suspect. But you talk about this is not

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Speaker 1: a standard day in the life of a police in Pottsville, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: That's what I tell you that it was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Joe, it when I was looking at this, this

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Speaker 3: is why I want I was so glad you. I'm

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Speaker 3: not glad anybody's dead. I'm glad you wanted to cover it.

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Speaker 3: Because as we look at a lot of these stories,

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Speaker 3: this one seems pretty cut and dry, but it really isn't.

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Speaker 3: When I looked at what the police actually did and

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Speaker 3: how forensically they tied this in a bow. If you've

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Speaker 3: ever wondered how do people get away with the crime,

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Speaker 3: look at the way they solve this one. Because they

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Speaker 3: have the ex boyfriend father of the eight week old,

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Speaker 3: on surveillance video going into the apartment, and because she

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Speaker 3: had a protection order against him, they were able to

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Speaker 3: pick him up and put him on ice. So he's

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Speaker 3: in jail. He is their primary suspect. He ain't going

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Speaker 3: no word no, and they've got him. So now they

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Speaker 3: can actually spend time not worrying about some crazy guy

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Speaker 3: running around because just from the outside they knew probably

359
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Speaker 3: that's our guy, but they still That's why I asked

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Speaker 3: you at the beginning about a parallel investigation, because they

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Speaker 3: have their main suspect and they have proof right off

362
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Speaker 3: the bat that it's probably him, but they still got

363
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Speaker 3: to make sure because he could be crazy and just

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Speaker 3: admit it, Yeah I did.

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Speaker 2: It when he didn't do it. So yeah, yeah, there

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Speaker 2: was a part of this.

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Speaker 3: They got me on the body, okay, when because what

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Speaker 3: I looked at was how did they what did they do?

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Speaker 2: Because he this guy didn't admit it.

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Speaker 3: You know, Abdul Ali did not go to the police

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Speaker 3: and say, excuse me, sir, can I just tell you

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Speaker 3: what I did? It's not what they did. They actually

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Speaker 3: had to meet with him several times, and his story

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Speaker 3: changed every time they gave him a new bit of evidence.

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Speaker 3: So let me ask you this. Because Ali claimed that

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Speaker 3: they were having sex, and there were bruises and marks

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Speaker 3: on her chest that he claimed happened while they were

378
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Speaker 3: having sex. And when forensically they were looking at all

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Speaker 3: of this, they were able to tell that's not what

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Speaker 3: it was at all, and they were able to pretty

381
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Speaker 3: much tell him exactly what happened, and then he admitted

382
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Speaker 3: and talked about it. But what did What did they

383
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Speaker 3: find on her chest? The markings that made them realize

384
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Speaker 3: what had transpired?

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Speaker 1: Joe, there's an interesting thing that's at work here, because

386
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Speaker 1: we'll get to we'll get to this poor woman's neck

387
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Speaker 1: at what they found there to begin with, However, I'd

388
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Speaker 1: really like to address this idea of these marks on

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Speaker 1: her chest. As you had mentioned, there is a practice

390
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Speaker 1: that some people engage in that's actually referred to as burking,

391
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Speaker 1: and this is working. Yeah, it's like an asphixia. It's

392
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Speaker 1: a form of compression asphyxia, and people do it for

393
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Speaker 1: a number of reasons. I think that there there's a

394
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Speaker 1: group of people out there that involve this in their

395
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Speaker 1: bedroom activities, if you will. And you know, we have

396
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Speaker 1: a whole group of people out there that do things

397
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Speaker 1: relative to oxygen deprivation, you know, autooroticism and things like that.

398
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Speaker 1: But it comes down to an idea of control. And

399
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Speaker 1: so with compression asphyxia, if you place your body weight

400
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Speaker 1: on an individual, you don't necessarily have to wrap your

401
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: hands or literature around their throat. I mean, for my

402
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: friends out there that have brothers and sisters, if you

403
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Speaker 1: were ever a little kid and you were involved in

404
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: the pig pile and you're on the bottom, you know

405
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: how horrible that is. Or somebody holds you beneath water

406
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Speaker 1: when you're little, you know, when you're playing in the

407
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Speaker 1: pool and whatnot, and that kind of you're struggling for

408
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Speaker 1: air your chest can't expand.

409
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Speaker 3: Or your older brother leaning on your chest and giving

410
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Speaker 3: it the spit treatment, making mouth yeah, yeah.

411
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Speaker 1: Exactly, and so we've all experienced something like that. But

412
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Speaker 1: you take this to this level and the forensic pathologist

413
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Speaker 1: actually married up, which I think is quite fascinating. I

414
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Speaker 1: don't know that I've ever covered a CA I know

415
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 1: that I haven't. I've never worked a case like this.

416
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Speaker 1: This is one of the things that makes this very

417
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Speaker 1: unique forensically, of where the forensic pathologist was able to

418
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Speaker 1: offer an opinion that these kind of marks or contusions

419
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: that are on her chest were consistent Dave with someone's

420
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 1: knees being placed there. So if you can imagine the

421
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Speaker 1: weight of a grown man on a female's chest, so

422
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: that means that she's face up. She's in what's referred

423
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Speaker 1: to as a supine position, So this is face to face.

424
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Speaker 1: He's staring her in the eye. Just let this sink in,

425
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Speaker 1: just for a second. Even if he doesn't have his

426
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Speaker 1: hands wrapped around her neck, he still got her in

427
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: a position where his legs are folded beneath him. His

428
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: body weight is directly being supported by his knees or

429
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: being transferred from his knees to her chest. Imagine how

430
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: hard it would be for her to take up oxygen.

431
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: You can't, And so he concluded. He, being the forensic

432
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: pathologist in Potsville, determined that this had to be a

433
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 1: compression related event just in that element of it alone. Now,

434
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: what will really kind of send a chill up your

435
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: spine with this case? And I'm going to throw out

436
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: the T word here. I'm going to say that there

437
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: is a certain level of torture that's involved with this,

438
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: because anytime you have a case of oxygen deprivation that's

439
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: being perpetrated on another individual, it can be said, I

440
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: think that there is that this would be a torturous

441
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: death because you know, you're trying to breathe, you can't breathe.

442
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: Your body is being compromised. To this point, Dave, the

443
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, actually stated that he had never encountered a

444
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: case with this many fingernail marks on a human body.

445
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: So what does that mean? You know, we were talking

446
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: early on about fingernails. When an individual is wrapping their

447
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: hands around a subject and they are digging their fingernails

448
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: into the neck as they are choking applying pressure, you

449
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: leave these little elliptical injuries to the surface of the skin.

450
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: And for everybody that take a look at the tips

451
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: of your fingers right now and you'll see how you know,

452
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: your fingernails have this elliptical shape to it, and they're

453
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: like little blades and they dig into the skin. And

454
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: so every time you readjust your hands, say you have

455
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: to regrip. Remember now, All the while, allegedly he's on

456
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: her chest applying direct pressure to her chest. She can't

457
00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: breathe that way, and he keeps squeezing her neck with

458
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: his fingertips wrapped around and he's readjusting. So she's gotten multiple,

459
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: probably upwards of thirty marks on her neck. And you know,

460
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: if you've got okay, let's face, you've got ten fingers right,

461
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: thirty thirty marks at least, and some of those are

462
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: probably going to be overlapping. That means that you're adjusting

463
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: and readjusting, you're gripping and regripping. So for a moment

464
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: time she gets hope, when the pressure is released, she

465
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: can for that moment take up breath. But all of

466
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: a sudden, the pressure is reapplied, and it's applied in

467
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: a different position. I actually worked a case, several cases

468
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: involving a serial perpetrator. He killed like six women, and

469
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: he would torture women by using a ligature around their

470
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: neck of a wire and he would drug them and

471
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: then take the wire and wrap it around their neck

472
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: and he would apply pressure, wrap it and then unwrap it,

473
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: and he would reset the ligature around around their neck

474
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: multiple times and bring them to the edge of death

475
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 1: and then allow them to breathe again. And it was

476
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: a torturous death. And so that's kind of what you're

477
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: looking at when you're examining a body in the state. Now,

478
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: whether or not it was intentional, I have no idea.

479
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: But.

480
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,719
Speaker 1: When you kind of take the long view of this

481
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: and you begin to think about how over the top

482
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: this is relative to the death that she would have suffered,

483
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: how long it took her to die, Dave, I'm not

484
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: really sure how they arrived at this conclusion, but Bobba,

485
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: they said this went on for probably about fifteen minutes.

486
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 3: Actually it came from him, Joe, when they had the

487
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 3: detective sitting down in the jail, and as they told you,

488
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: he changed his story multiple times. They came in with

489
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 3: evidence and they would interview him and they would get

490
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: a statement from then they'd go back and they come

491
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: back again, because as we mentioned, they already had him

492
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 3: in jail on the TPO, on the FPA, so he's

493
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: in jail for even being at the apartment, and they're

494
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: able to keep getting him into a corner on his story,

495
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,719
Speaker 3: and so they would come in with more evidence and he, oh, yeah, now,

496
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 3: or remember I did this, or I did that, And

497
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 3: finally it was the culmination of all of the evidence

498
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: that finally when they had you know, when they have

499
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: a hearing to determine whether or not there's enough to

500
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 3: go to trial, even if somebody confesses, you know, they

501
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 3: still go through the motions of a trial, and that's

502
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 3: what they had here. And he, the actual suspect, abdul

503
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: Alee said once they that he had his hands around

504
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 3: her throat for at least fifteen minutes. I didn't realize

505
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: what the fingerprints meant, Joe. I read through all of

506
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 3: this and until you told me, I did not know

507
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 3: that's what those marks meant. That just slow playing now.

508
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: He arrived at the apartment at seven thirty six. They

509
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: see him on video going into the apartment seven thirty

510
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 3: six pm on the twelfth February twelfth evening. They see

511
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 3: him leaving the apartment five hours and ten minutes later

512
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 3: at twelve forty six am. She's alive when he gets

513
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 3: there at seven thirty six. Did he torture her that

514
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: whole time?

515
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: That's the big question, isn't it.

516
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 3: And I need to add this. They just had his

517
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 3: his trial went three days. He was found guilty. Now

518
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: he had already admitted all of this. This was just

519
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: going through the motions getting to sentence things which will

520
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 3: take place later. At the preliminary hearing, one of her friends,

521
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 3: one of Destiny Duckett's friends, yelled at him, justice will

522
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: be served. Abdulah Ali looked back and replied, We'll see

523
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 3: about that.

524
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: You know, just when you think you've gone to the

525
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: basement relative to the level of human depravity, you never

526
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: quite hit or touch the bottom. Because, you know, when

527
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: we started discussing this case, you think about that precious

528
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: two months old and what that child's life is going

529
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: to be like from now on moving forward, and it

530
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: begs the question, you know, will justice be served? And

531
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about for the perpetrator. Will justice be

532
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: served for this child? The child that's been left behind,

533
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: the child that was physically present in that dwelling as

534
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: that child's mother took her last breath, as that child

535
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: screamed to be comforted while lying in their bed. Will

536
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: there ever be any justice for that child? I don't know.

537
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 1: But I know that this guy is off the street.

538
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: This guy's been convicted and he's going to be sentenced.

539
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacts