1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Monster d C Sniper, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: podcast are solely those of the podcast author or individuals 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: participating in the podcast, and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener discretion is advised. 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 2: Three weeks into the d C Sniper investigation, police connected 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: a fingerprint from an Alabama crime scene to two names, 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 2: John Alan Mohammed and Lee Boyd Malvo. Last episode, we 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 2: explored mohammed story. After his wife asked for a divorce, 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: he disappeared with his three children. This episode, Who was 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: Lee Boyd Malvo, the seventeen year old from Jamaica and 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: how was he connected to Mohammed? At the time, investigators 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: were stumped, but years later we finally started to get 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: the answers. Many of those answers came from the work 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: of criminologist and criminal profiler Anthony Meoli. Meoly spent nine 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: years corresponding with Lee and listening to his side of 17 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,639 Speaker 2: the story. Me Only recorded a series of phone calls 18 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 2: with Lee titled Interview with the d C Sniper, which 19 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,919 Speaker 2: you will hear clips from throughout this episode. Lee also 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: wrote an autobiography, which Meoly helped edit and publish. 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 3: Dire the d C Snipers sa verbatim transcript from Lee 22 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 3: Boyd Malvo word for word. This is a very rare 23 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 3: time where you're able to understand how an individual develops 24 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: from the day he's born to the day he was 25 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 3: arrested for one of the most sensational crimes of our 26 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 3: modern time. The takeaway from it is not the grisly 27 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: nature of what happened at the end, but what led 28 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 3: him to that. Lee Boyd Malvel was born February eighteen, 29 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty five, in Kingston, Jamaica. He was born to 30 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 3: Leslie Malvo and Una James, his mother. He took the 31 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: name Malvo from his father, but they were never formally married, 32 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 3: at least according to Lee. At the time Lee was born, 33 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: his mom was twenty one and his father was thirty seven, 34 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 3: so there was a sixteen year age gap in Kingston. 35 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 3: That wasn't tremendously unusual, but that separation of age did 36 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 3: lead to many differences between how their relationship developed. 37 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: Lee remembers his father, Leslie, as kind and permissive. Lee 38 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: says he spent his early years on a tricycle, and 39 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 2: Leslie would pull him through the neighborhood by a rope 40 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 2: tied to the tricycles handlebars. Lee's mother, Una, on the 41 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: other hand, was the disciplinarian. 42 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 3: Una was very strict in many ways. She would be calm, 43 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: cool and collected one moment, and then violent the next. 44 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: Lee told me only that when his mother got angry, 45 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 2: she would sometimes beat him to the point of drawing blood. 46 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 3: At the same time, she did care for him, and 47 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: she did provide for the family, but she was gone 48 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 3: most of the time, so it would not be unusual 49 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 3: for Lee to be fending for himself at a very 50 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 3: young age. One day, while she was out at work, 51 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 3: he was left alone, and he was awfully young. He 52 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 3: was five six years old. She had some jade figurines 53 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: that she kept around the house. They were small, trivial 54 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 3: objects to some, but to her they meant something. He 55 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 3: was playing with an airplane and running around the house 56 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: and bumped into one of these jade figurines and it broke. 57 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 4: I a break one of these things, and I'm I'm crying. 58 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: Before she comes from he was expecting a beating. He 59 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: knew she was going to hit him and hit him hard. 60 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 4: After hour, she sheltered me and charged Dowary. 61 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 3: She came home in a rage and was about to 62 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: well off on Lee and his father stepped in. 63 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 5: And eat grabbed me up. He said, this is the person. 64 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 4: This is the thing that can be replate each or not. 65 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: You know, this is a thing pointing to the object, 66 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 3: and this is your son, and you need to be 67 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 3: able to separate those two right now. Whether that message 68 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 3: rang true with Una remains unclear. 69 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: My father was like to go. 70 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 4: Get He was my protect because he would always know 71 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 4: what to do or what to say in those moments. 72 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: It really stuck with him that this is what a 73 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 3: father does. A father protects his child. And he had 74 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 3: some fond memories of his father until eventually his father 75 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: left him, and that's when things started to go sour. 76 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 2: There is a ruthless person on the loose. 77 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 6: What unnerves this community the most is the randomness of 78 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 6: the murders, ordinary people doing ordinary things. 79 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: They killed the five people in one day and then 80 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: went on the rampage for the next month. 81 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 3: It is quite a mystery. 82 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 2: The police say they have never had a crime quite 83 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: like this. 84 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 7: Be careful, these guys are using weapons that are going 85 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 7: to go right straight through our bulletproof vests. 86 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 4: The white bag. 87 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 2: From iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster DC Sniper 88 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: criminologist Anthony Meoli has made a career of interviewing some 89 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 2: of America's most heinous criminals. 90 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 3: I literally have spoken or written to over three hundred 91 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 3: serial killers. What I find most interesting about them is 92 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 3: that they are people. I don't harp on the horrific 93 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 3: nature of their crimes, but rather try to learn who 94 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 3: they were and how the crimes came about. 95 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: Me only says people often completely write off killers it's 96 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 2: just evil people or monsters. But he thinks that's a mistake. 97 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 3: As soon as we find out who did it, we 98 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 3: can't get enough of how evil or how monstrous this 99 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 3: person is without understanding what it was that brought the 100 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 3: person to that particular moment in time. Unfortunately, they are 101 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 3: not monsters, they are not some mystical beasts. Unfortunately, these 102 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 3: are human beings with human DNA, and we have to 103 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 3: be willing to accept that and understand that. Just as 104 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 3: there are some fantastic human beings who do some incredible 105 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 3: things and change people's lives, there are other human beings 106 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 3: who go down a wrong path and take people's lives. 107 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: It's not to condone what they did. Make no mistake there, 108 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 3: it's not to condone at all what they did. 109 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: As a criminologist, me only thinks that if we want 110 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,679 Speaker 2: to prevent these sorts of crimes from happening in the future, 111 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: we need to understand the people that commit them and 112 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: examine their lives. That's why he's corresponded with so many 113 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: serial killers. Meoldi was particularly interested to speak with Lee 114 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: Boyd Malvoe. He first wrotally in two thousand and three, 115 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: but starting a correspondence proved challenging. 116 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 3: Letters that I sent would be mailed back and saying 117 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 3: the inmate is not here. So it took a while, 118 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 3: and it wasn't until May of two thousand and five 119 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: where I received his first letter. What was interesting was 120 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 3: it was a two page letter, handwritten in black ink. Normally, 121 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 3: it takes a long time for many of these individuals 122 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: to trust others. 123 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: But Meoldi says Lee's first letter to him was different. 124 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 3: It was very personal. I think that's what struck me. 125 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 3: He even left the letter by saying, wherever you want 126 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 3: to go from here, I'm willing to go with you. 127 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 3: So that's sort of where it all began. We were 128 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 3: corresponding one to two letters a week. We did that 129 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: for about four years, and then I had the ability 130 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 3: to speak to him on the phone. My first phone 131 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: call with him was in twenty ten. It struck me 132 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 3: immediately how intelligent he actually was. His formal education stopped 133 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 3: far before college, but he was far more well read 134 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 3: than most of those who I knew who held master's degrees. 135 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 3: Maybe the single most well read individual out of over 136 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 3: three hundred inmates that I've written. 137 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 2: To during these years of communicating back and forth. Meoli 138 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: says Lee asked him to help edit and publish his autobiography. 139 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 2: Meoli agreed. 140 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 3: What came across with Lee Boyd Malvo's intellect, his ability 141 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 3: to jump from topic to topic. He knew anything and 142 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 3: everything about anything related to the weather, It could be 143 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 3: related to inmate rights, it could be related to racial tensions. 144 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 3: And that was one dynamic that we talked a lot about. 145 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: As a Caucasian male, obviously we came from two different worlds. 146 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: Zara Burden is a journalist and host of the Jamaican 147 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: news program eighteen Degrees North. She was also interested in 148 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 2: understanding Lee Boyd Malbose. 149 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 3: Roots oh Well. 150 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 6: First interview back in twenty thirteen was an interview with 151 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 6: Lee Boyd Malville. 152 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 3: He agreed to. 153 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 6: Do the interview, he said, because it was allowing him 154 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 6: to speak to his Jamaican people. You know, it's a 155 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 6: strange kind of thing. Jimmy cons are four jamay cns. 156 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 6: We coss each other on this rock, but we back 157 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 6: the best of us and we disagreees together the worst 158 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 6: of us. It was important for us to understand host 159 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 6: somebody raised on our soil could leave here and go 160 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 6: to the United States, where most Jamaicans go to become prosperous, 161 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 6: and he instead of going that route, he instead chose 162 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 6: to kill Americans. And we don't have any hate for Americans. 163 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 6: We love Americans in Jamaica. So why would you be 164 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 6: motivated to carry out such an atrocity on your fellow man? 165 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: That was the big question. 166 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 3: He explained. Violence was something that occurred constantly. 167 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 2: This is criminologist Anthony Meoli again. 168 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 3: So there would often be one or two parents on 169 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 3: a whole block watching fifteen twenty kids. 170 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 6: Yes, an aunt might be present, but is that aunt 171 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 6: going to give as much attention as a mom would, 172 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 6: is that uncle going to have enough energy to take 173 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 6: care and discipline that child in the right way? Sometimes yes, 174 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 6: sometimes known. 175 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 3: Often the only way, sadly, to keep them in line 176 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 3: was to know that if they did something in bed while, 177 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 3: a beating was coming. And so it wasn't uncommon for 178 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 3: Lee to see violence or to experience violence. 179 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: In his autobiography, Lie says one time, when he was 180 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 2: around five, his father brought home a paycheck that was 181 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: short on cash. His mother suspected he was cheating on 182 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 2: her and accused him of giving the money to another woman. 183 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 2: This led to an argument, which escalated into a violent fight. 184 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,239 Speaker 4: Here's Lee, I'm never driving a qualification. 185 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 5: My dad basically felt that my mother's departured Pteropie. 186 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: Lee says that two days later he was sitting on 187 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: a bed watching his dad clean a mirror on the 188 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 2: bedroom dresser when his mother snuck up from. 189 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 4: Behind my mom to chop the pand off of the ship. 190 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 3: His mom had picked up a machete and was about 191 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 3: to attack his father from behind when Lee yells out 192 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 3: to his father charged. 193 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 5: A vote, and that's when he fell the reflection in 194 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 5: the mirror. 195 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 4: He turned it she missed his rich but she basically 196 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 4: filled off the entire film. 197 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 3: Una strikes Leslie's thumb and nearly severs his thumb with 198 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 3: the machete. 199 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 4: He was hard on his hand because I mean this 200 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 4: my mother is my father's those. 201 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: Lee was very emotional from that moment because he was 202 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 3: too young to know what it meant to have an infidelity. 203 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 3: He had no idea what that was, but he knew 204 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 3: that his mother and his father had severe arguments to 205 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 3: the points where his mother would be willing to almost 206 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 3: kill his father. So he saw violence at a very 207 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 3: early age and continued to do so for many years. 208 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 4: They always in fight that it does this the uncle 209 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 4: my mom called it, she re least. 210 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 5: About the time. 211 00:12:55,120 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: Eventually, Una had had enough of Leslie's infidel with various 212 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 3: women on the island, and she told Leslie to decide 213 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 3: whether to be with her or to move on to 214 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: the other women. 215 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 4: He used to work with Kyan Island as a contract 216 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 4: to make a whole deal and stuff like that, and 217 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 4: one occasion when he left worked up my mom she 218 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 4: did again, so she decided she moved out the house 219 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 4: and his Disappearod didn't tell anyone. 220 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 5: He didn't know where to find them. 221 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 2: Lisa has Buna packed up all their things and emptied 222 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 2: out the bank accounts. She left with Lee to start 223 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: a new life and didn't tell Leslie where they'd gone. 224 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 3: And this left Lee pretty much without a father from 225 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 3: about the age of nine. 226 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 5: He did find them after a couple of months. I 227 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 5: think to a certain extent, he took it out on me. 228 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 4: Didn't want to do after that or have anything to 229 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 4: do with me. 230 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 5: He just pretty much abandoned me. 231 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: Here's journalist Zara Burden again. 232 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 6: His father was absent for or a large part, and 233 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 6: emotionally that created a void. There's a lot of hurt 234 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 6: for youngsters in Jamaica. A lot of it is based 235 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 6: on absent parents that allow predators to come and pray, 236 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 6: whether it's sexually, emotionally or recruiting in gangs, youths in 237 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 6: this country, in Jamaica, youths all over the world who 238 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 6: have no role model, who feel like they have no purpose. 239 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 6: It's so easy for a gang leader or even an 240 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 6: organization like Isis to recruit and to give them a 241 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 6: sense of purpose. And so it is so important that 242 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 6: parents in Jamaica and the world ovo ensure that the 243 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 6: time is there, that the investment is there in their children, 244 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 6: and that when they see them around that company, that 245 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 6: they steer them in a different direction. 246 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: After leaving Leslie, Una struggled to make ends meet. She 247 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: moved with Lee to Endeavor, a rural town north of Kingston, 248 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 2: where they lived in a small home. 249 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 3: It was pretty much a shock. It was just enough 250 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 3: to get by. They suffered to often have proper plumbing. 251 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 3: Una did not have the money to fix things. 252 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: Despite being strapped for cash, Una was able to get 253 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: alane and open a small grocery store. 254 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 3: It was a sundry shop, so to say. 255 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: UNA's store went well until a power outage ruined all 256 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: of the refrigerated goods. She didn't have enough money saved 257 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: to restock the inventory, so she was forced to close 258 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: the store and unable to find work and Endeavor, she 259 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 2: and Lee moved back to Kingston. For Lee, this was 260 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: the first of many moves. 261 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 3: In Jamaica, it's not uncommon for people to be somewhat transient. 262 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 3: In the let's say late eighties early nineties, work was 263 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 3: very hard to come by, especially for a woman who 264 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 3: was not building homes or something or doing labor, so 265 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 3: it was not uncommon for Una to look for work 266 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 3: at various places and move around so that she could 267 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 3: support the two of. 268 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 2: Them, And according to Lee, his mother would do whatever 269 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: it took to get what she needed. 270 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: When she purchased a home, she knew that one of 271 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 3: the men who was selling the land was prone to 272 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 3: drinking alcohol, and she waited until he was inebriated and 273 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 3: he signed over another acre for a relatively paltry sum 274 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 3: to Una so that she could have more land. She 275 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 3: was a smart woman in knowing what she needed to 276 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: do in order to get things done. 277 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: And that often meant moving for work. Me Only says 278 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 2: Lee bounced around fifteen to twenty times in his adolescence. 279 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: Sometimes she took Lee with her, other times she left 280 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: him with family and friends. 281 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 3: In many cases, Lee would refer to the family as cousins. 282 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 3: They may not have been cousins legally, but just friends 283 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 3: who his mom would leave him with and then she 284 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 3: would be gone for several months. So yes, he would 285 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 3: be completely abandoned, if you will, by today's standards, while 286 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,479 Speaker 3: his mom looked for more steady work, and this was 287 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 3: at the unfortunate negative impact to Lee's life. 288 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 6: There's a huge problem in this country where barrel kids 289 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 6: are concerned, they're called barrel kids. Baryl just means that 290 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 6: your parents, to show love and affection, will send a 291 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 6: barrel filled with good is, with school products, with whatever 292 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 6: is necessary to allow you to have things. 293 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 2: Journalist Zara Burton says that many times parents seek better 294 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: opportunities abroad, but they can't take their families with him. 295 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 6: Jamaica is a tough spot to earn a dollar, I'm 296 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 6: telling you, And so you get an opportunity to go 297 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 6: to the States to earn a doll you're going to 298 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 6: take it. For a lot of Jamaicans, Kman Turks and 299 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 6: Caicos Bahamas. Those are the hot spots where we go 300 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 6: to for better economic opportunity. But guess what, sometimes your 301 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 6: status there ain't fully started, and so you're there kind 302 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 6: of illegally overstay your visa and you're working, and all 303 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 6: you can to show you love is to get on Skype, 304 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 6: get on the phone. 305 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 2: And cene barrel. 306 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 6: But invariably some of them are not being supervised in 307 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 6: their homes and so there definitely is a deficit in 308 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 6: their emotional development, their ability to be disciplined the way 309 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 6: that it manifests in this country is our crime level, 310 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 6: which remains extremely high compared to maybe other populations that 311 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 6: are similar in size. 312 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: Jamaica's homicide rate consistently ranks as one of the highest 313 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: in the world. 314 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,959 Speaker 6: The most brutal individuals sometimes on the street creating havoc 315 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 6: are the teens because they've been recruited the wrong people 316 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 6: are there to pick up the slack where parenting has failed. 317 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: Over the next few years, Lee bounced between relatives apartments. 318 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 2: According to me only Lee jumped around anywhere from fifteen 319 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 2: to twenty times during that period. 320 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 3: His biggest struggle in life was between the ages of 321 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 3: five and nine. Those were the times where he had 322 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 3: moved from various places and he had seen a lot 323 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 3: of violence, experienced a lot of violence, so it made 324 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 3: it very difficult for him to understand what life really 325 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: looked like as he approached his early teen years. 326 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 4: I remember I was sitting down writing my journal and 327 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 4: I said, I. 328 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 5: Mean, I have no one. 329 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 4: Even if I walk off a bridge, they no one 330 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 4: get the flu is cold life of power. And I 331 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 4: decided that I would never cry, and I would never 332 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 4: complain about anything. I'm going to find a way he 333 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 4: could be I don't find a way a law. 334 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,479 Speaker 3: He did not have the stability that most children need 335 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: during the formative years of his life. At the most, 336 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 3: he had nothing. He didn't have his parents, he didn't 337 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 3: have any structure, and all he had was instability. So 338 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 3: it probably had a traumatic impact on him, knowing that 339 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 3: this was going to be how my life is. It's 340 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 3: going to be a tumultuous, violent life that I'm going 341 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 3: to live, and he started to develop a lot of 342 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 3: anger inside himself. 343 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 2: Around this time, Lee went searching for his father in 344 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: Kingston the way Lee remembers it. He eventually found Leslie 345 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,719 Speaker 2: walking down the street. Lee told him that Una had 346 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 2: left him behind to go work on another island, hoping 347 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 2: that his father would take him in. 348 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 5: Well, I went to see it. 349 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 4: He was looking at Faith like I'm happy to see, 350 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 4: but why are you here? I mean I could kill 351 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 4: that five minutes earlier. He did not terrify eat if 352 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 4: I was safe, I mean none of that. He couldn't 353 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 4: find me, he had all these accuses. He gave me 354 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 4: some buff fear and arm put me on my way. 355 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 3: I gave it to a ball and Lee took that 356 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 3: as I think that's it. With my father. That's about 357 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: the only acknowledgment I'm going to get. 358 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 2: When later asked about the incident, Lee's father said he 359 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 2: didn't take him in because he didn't want to re 360 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 2: engage with Una. Leslie Malvo wouldn't see his son again 361 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: until he was an adult. Despite all these challenges, Lee 362 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: worked hard at school. He was intelligent and made good grades, 363 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 2: and although she was gone for long stretches of time, 364 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 2: Lee's mother watched closely over his performance in school. 365 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 4: He can be terrified to go home because as soon 366 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 4: as I go over here by name to door. 367 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: I honestly think that Lee, if there was a word 368 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 3: for it, I think Lee was more of an academic 369 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 3: really than he gave himself credit for it. He knew 370 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 3: that his mom expected one hundred percent. Anything under one 371 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 3: hundred percent he was going to get punished. He would 372 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 3: often sit outside the home waiting to go inside and be. 373 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 4: Petrified the going I didn't didn't want to go home, 374 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 4: but if An nacked to go home, so I went home. 375 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 5: She was waiting for me. 376 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 4: She had a if every thick never built. 377 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 3: He explained that for every incorrect answer he got, he 378 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 3: would receive three blows from a belt. If he got 379 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 3: ten incorrect answers for the day, he would get hit 380 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 3: thirty times. He knew that because he knew if he 381 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 3: had a bad day or a bad grade on his paper, 382 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 3: what was going to happen when those doors opened? 383 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 4: I mean everywhere, faith back, he everwhere. I kept looking 384 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 4: at her in the eye. 385 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 5: Pages would not cry. 386 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 4: He just kept going and going. There was a look 387 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 4: on her face that was. 388 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 5: A look of hate. 389 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 2: When Lee was about twelve, his mom left Kingston again 390 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: for work on another island, so he went to live 391 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 2: with a teacher who he called Aunt Simon. 392 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 3: Had a much more humanistic approach. She would sit down 393 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 3: and tell Lee exactly what she expected of him. Lee 394 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 3: was sort of shocked. She treated him almost like a 395 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 3: young adult. She always would encourage Lee, explain to Lee 396 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 3: the things that he did well and the things that 397 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 3: he needed to work on. She didn't raise her voice 398 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 3: at him, which was something that he hadn't really experienced before. 399 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 3: That separated her from Una. In Lee's mind, he didn't 400 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 3: have to worry about that beating formula of three times 401 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 3: a day. There was no more verbal and physical abuse 402 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 3: going on. Aunt Simone had intimate knowledge of the beatings 403 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 3: that Lee had taken because Lee had told her, and 404 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 3: I think in her own way, even though she wasn't 405 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 3: his mother, she knew that Una was not good for 406 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 3: him at that time in his life, so she did 407 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 3: everything to protect him from going back to her by 408 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 3: trying to sort of say, I got this, I can 409 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 3: take care of Lee. This was a time where he 410 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 3: finally had a little bit of love in his life. 411 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: Me Only says that Lee was often very affected by 412 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 2: small things, words, gestures, with the tone of a person's voice. 413 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 3: He even spoke about the most simple phrase that an 414 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 3: simone would say. She would say good morning, Lee, and 415 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 3: that would mean the world to him because he didn't 416 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 3: get that from his mom. He did not get that 417 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 3: from Leslie. He got that from a woman who he 418 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 3: really barely knew at that time, and yet she was 419 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 3: willing to take him in as her son. His life 420 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 3: looked much more like a regular child. He was now 421 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 3: experiencing the ability to play with board games. She would 422 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 3: read Bible lessons to him, she would show him how 423 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 3: to do homework. She even showed him what he could 424 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 3: be if he did further education. 425 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: But it wouldn't last. Eventually, Una showed up at Simone's 426 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 2: house and demanded that Lee come back and live with her. 427 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 3: When it came to a head to where he had 428 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 3: to choose between Aunt Simone and his mother, he really 429 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 3: didn't have a choice because he was still a minor. 430 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 3: Una had the final say because she was, you know, 431 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 3: his mother, and unfortunately he had to leave. There's nothing 432 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 3: Aunt Simone could do about it. She couldn't protect him anymore, 433 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 3: you know. Reluctantly she had to give him up. 434 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 2: Una came to realize how much happier Lee had felt 435 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,479 Speaker 2: without her. She resented him for wanting to stay with 436 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 2: Simone instead of coming back to live with her. 437 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 3: So once he was reunited with Una, he would face 438 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,719 Speaker 3: daily beating, sometimes twice a day, just simply for no 439 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,239 Speaker 3: reason at all. So now it had escalated with the 440 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 3: violence at home. It went from being a good morning 441 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 3: with Aunt Simone to an unknown, hellish day with his 442 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 3: own mother. 443 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: Eventually, Lee reached his breaking point. 444 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 4: I decided open a film work help and I a 445 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 4: makeshift will walk down to the Mangua tree and it 446 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 4: does to an myself. 447 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 3: The suicide attempt with Lee occurred, according to him, around 448 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 3: age thirteen. He had been on a farm with Una 449 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 3: and a caretaker who lived on this farm. He went 450 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 3: up in a tree and sat there for quite some time, 451 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 3: debating what is his life going to be like? If 452 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 3: my life is going to be like this for the 453 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 3: rest of my life, I don't want to live it. 454 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 3: So he finally decided that he is going to take 455 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 3: his life. When he made the knot placed it around 456 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 3: his neck, he yelled his mom's name as loud as 457 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 3: he could. He wanted to make sure that she saw him. 458 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 3: He wanted her to worry about him. He wanted to 459 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 3: see what look was on her face when she knew 460 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 3: that her son was about to take his life. And 461 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 3: that's a very telling moment because you would think that 462 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 3: a mom would have finally realized, wow, you know, look 463 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 3: what I've done to my son. But Una does not 464 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 3: have that inward looking moment, and her demeanor doesn't change 465 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 3: a whole lot. You know, she did say are you okay? 466 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 3: Do you want to talk? But I think the damage 467 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 3: was so far done. And the story, as he describes it, 468 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 3: was he let go of the tree and just as 469 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 3: the rope begins to tighten, the caretaker on the property 470 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 3: grabs him and make sure that it doesn't snap his neck. 471 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 3: They undo the rope and untie him. But he still 472 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 3: harbored that feeling that he was willing to take his life, 473 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 3: which is very significant. He had internalized the anger. He 474 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 3: didn't take it out on his mom. He didn't stab 475 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 3: or shoot his mother, He didn't stab or shoot anyone else. 476 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 3: He took it all out on himself. And from what 477 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 3: we know with child psychology, if a child is willing 478 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 3: to take their life at thirteen, they've suffered dramatic trauma 479 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 3: in order to come to that place, because that's a 480 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 3: very early age to grasp the idea that if I 481 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 3: jump off this branch and this rope tightens, I'm dead. 482 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: And yet his mother was not really willing to change 483 00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 3: her ways. 484 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 4: The worst state that was two days later he beat 485 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 4: me too, He would piece ama, He pointed to the truth, 486 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 4: until he's going to. 487 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 5: Your fuck himself. 488 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 3: But he said, for whatever reason, he had even lost 489 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 3: the courage to attempt suicide again. He just couldn't do 490 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 3: it anymore. 491 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 2: Lee had no one, He had lost on Simon, and 492 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: both of his parents had given up on him. But 493 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 2: he was about to meet the man who would take 494 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: on the role of his new father. When Lee was fifteen, 495 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 2: he and Una moved to the island of Antigua. Lee 496 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 2: says that Antigua brought more of the same verbal and 497 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 2: physical abuse. Meanwhile, his mother had started a new business there, 498 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 2: but not long after moving to Antigua, Una took another 499 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 2: job on a different island. She left Lee alone there 500 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 2: for almost a year. He had to steal and sell 501 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 2: bootleg CDs to get by. 502 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 4: My mother actually prepared me for this by leaving me 503 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 4: alone for many times. 504 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 3: I had time to practice. 505 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 5: I mean, I learned how to help. I take an 506 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 5: empty famous. 507 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 4: The throne, go out to the beach and make some 508 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 4: jerk chicken fill it. I'd pull it, cans and bottle. 509 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 4: I pretty much bee whatever I had to. 510 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 2: In Antigua, Lee had to walk several miles to school 511 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 2: each day. He passed by the Zaza Electronics store. On 512 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 2: one occasion he stopped in inside. A tall man was 513 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 2: watching his young son play a flight simulator video game 514 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 2: on one of the store's computers. They both had America 515 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 2: in accents and were joking around and laughing. Lee was 516 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 2: not used to seeing this kind of affection between a 517 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 2: father and son. 518 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 5: I wanted that relationship I wanted to be a father 519 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 5: like him. He was confident. 520 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 4: I mean, there were not a lot of fathers there 521 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 4: with yourself. A score of things about him that were 522 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 4: different than I admired. 523 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 5: And I just founded what from a difference. I actually 524 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 5: never spoke to him. 525 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 2: That man was John Muhammad. It was here in Antigua 526 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: that John had run away from Tacoma, Washington, with his 527 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 2: three children in tow. John had originally heard of the 528 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 2: island from an acquaintance in Tacoma. That man had a 529 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 2: cousin who worked in Antiqua as a travel agent. John 530 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 2: thought he could start a new life there with his kids, 531 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 2: and so they moved there in March of two thousand. 532 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 3: John was sort of the pied piper of many children 533 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 3: on the island. He was known for doing good things 534 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 3: for kids. He had money that others did not on 535 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 3: the island was something that Lee sort of looked up to. 536 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 3: But what we learned is that John's money was not 537 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 3: necessarily legal. What he was doing was illegally importing goods, services, 538 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 3: and even people into the United States. 539 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 2: John had created a business of smuggling Caribbean islanders into America. 540 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 2: He would help them forge passports and ensure travel to 541 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 2: the Florida coast, and in the year two thousand, one 542 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 2: of John's new clients was Una, Lee's mother. 543 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 3: A lot of people don't understand that John actually got 544 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 3: Una into the United States. There was a presumed relationship 545 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 3: as far as whether or not it was a sexual 546 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 3: one that I'm not quite sure. 547 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 4: He made it for like three He made it in 548 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 4: September and the three weeks later in October she was 549 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 4: in the US. 550 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 2: Una left Lee behind and got a job at a 551 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 2: restaurant in Fort Myers, Florida. She promised to bring him 552 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 2: to America when she had more money, but eventually Una 553 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 2: stopped sending rent for Lee to live on, so he 554 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 2: was forced to move into a run down shack behind 555 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 2: the house where they'd been staying. Things only got worse 556 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 2: for Lee. In November of two thousand, he fell ill 557 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 2: with rheumatic fever. Lying alone, sick in the dark, Lee 558 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 2: felt abused, abandoned, and completely resigned. And then, in the hot, 559 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 2: unforgiving darkness, a light burst through the door of the 560 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 2: shack opened, A tall man stepped inside. Then the man 561 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 2: came closer. He leaned down and grabbed Lee's hand. It 562 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 2: was the American man who smuggled his mother into the 563 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 2: United States, the same man he'd seen that day the 564 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 2: electronics shop playing with the son John Mohammed had come 565 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 2: for him next time on Monster DC Sniper, this. 566 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 6: Mohammed, if he gets across the border with your children, 567 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 6: there will be nothing we can do. 568 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 5: So are you telling me the reason why I don't 569 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 5: have my children and won't way to keep my children 570 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 5: because I don't have the proper paperwork. 571 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 7: Again, if we do not address the systemic failures that 572 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 7: occurred in this case, it's entirely likely that there are 573 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 7: all kinds of John Mohammad's out there wandering the streets. 574 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,479 Speaker 4: See that needs killed myself over and over. 575 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 5: He told me, the old person has to die. 576 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 7: Lee Marville has to die because Lee Marvell. 577 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 4: Cannot do this. 578 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: Monster DC Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast hosted by 579 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: Tony Harris and produced by iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. Matt 580 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers on behalf of iHeartRadio, 581 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: alongside producers Trevor Young, ben Keebrick, and Josh Thain. Payne 582 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: Lindsay and Donald Albright are executive producers on behalf of 583 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Stedman and Christina Dana. Original 584 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. The audio of 585 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,720 Speaker 1: Lee Boyd Malvo you heard in the Next Time segment 586 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: comes from a twenty twelve interview by journalist Josh White 587 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: and was provided courtesy of The Washington Post. If you 588 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: haven't already, be sure to check out the first two 589 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: seasons at Lanta Monster and Monster the Zodiac Killer. If 590 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: you have questions or comments, email us at Monster at 591 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com, or you can call us at one 592 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: eight three, three two eight five six six sixty seven. 593 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.