1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Even as a journalist 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: who spends a lot of time following the news, it 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: can be hard to keep track of everything the Trump 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: administration is doing on any given day. Tonight, the US 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: and China and trade talks in Stockholm a waiting for 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: US take July twenty nights, late summer, usually a sleepy 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: time for news. 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: I think six consecutive days of old time highs for 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: the US anquity market as fenche. 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: There are a lot of headlines to sift through that day, 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: but there's one in particular that got climate journalists perking up. 12 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 3: EPA Administrator Lee Zelden says the agency wants to hear 13 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 3: from people to finalize a regulation that proposes to rescind 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 3: the Endangerment Finding, and. 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 4: If finalized, today's announcement would amount to the largest de 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 4: regulatory action in the history of the United States. 17 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: That's Lee Zelden, the EPA administrator, proposing to revoke the 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Dangerment Finding, a rule that has formed the bedrock of 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: environmental regulation in the US since two thousand and nine. 20 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 3: It's basically saying greenhouse gas emissions do pose a threat 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 3: to human health and giving EPA legal authority to actually 22 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 3: regulate specifically greenhouse gas pollutions. 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: That's my colleague Bloomberg reporter Zara Hirg. 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: What it does is it binds a really vast, global, 25 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: century scale amount of scientific research to law. 26 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: And that's Eric Rosten, another climate reporter for Bloomberg. 27 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: And says that this is a problem and it'll affect 28 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: human health, and therefore we need to create policies that 29 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: will prevent harm that we know is probably coming. 30 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: Zara and Eric say the EPA's proposal to reverse the 31 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: finding was a huge deal. The agency claimed the rollback 32 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: could save more than fifty four billion dollars in annually 33 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: by essentially undoing greenhouse gas emissions regulations. And that proposal 34 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: is just one action that the Trump administration has taken 35 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: to undercut the work that government agencies do to address pollution, 36 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: climate change, disaster mitigation, and more. Zara says it's part 37 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 1: of a broader attack on the scientific establishment. 38 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: The Union of Concerned Scientists did itally, and they looked 39 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 3: at anti science actions total and they found around or 40 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 3: at least four hundred just in the first six months, 41 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 3: which was more than the entire total for the first 42 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 3: Trump administration. 43 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: When you look at climate science alone, the actions the 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: administration has taken have impacted at least half a dozen 45 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: agencies and disrupted billions of dollars in funding. 46 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 3: To conclude everything from firing of scientists putting them on 47 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: administrative leave, as well as canceling programs or grants, or 48 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 3: taking down information from the web or reconsidering policies. 49 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: The Trump administration has said that quote, agencies are refocusing 50 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: on their core missions and shifting away from ideological activism unquote. 51 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: The EPA has said environmental deregulation will create jobs and 52 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: save Americans billions of dollars. But Zara and Eric's reporting 53 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: tells a different story. 54 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 3: I'll say that you're sort of hearing two different things 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 3: from them. Often the economy is invoked when they're talking 56 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 3: about this stuff, and it is sort of framed under, 57 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 3: we do want to save money. But then you're also 58 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 3: just hearing from EPA's administrator Lee Zelden or Energy Secretary 59 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 3: Chris Wright, just a very clear condemnation in questioning of 60 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 3: climate science and people that work in climate. 61 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: And while these anti climate actions are expected to have 62 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: profound economic impacts, they're not necessarily the ones the administration 63 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: is touting they could slow GDP growth and disaster prone states, 64 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: which could also impact national GDP growth. They could make 65 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: it harder to prepare for extreme weather events, which have 66 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: cost the global economy and estimated two point eight trillion 67 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: dollars over the past two decades. It's hard to put 68 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: a price on future disasters, but the cost to green 69 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: energy projects is already quantifiable. In the first half of 70 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: this year, twenty two billion dollars worth of green projects 71 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: have been canceled. 72 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: Once you start peeling back the impacts of climate change, 73 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: it's a drag on the whole economy. 74 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from 75 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News Today on the show, breaking down the Trump 76 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: Administration's war on climate science, one agency at a time, 77 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: and calculating the impact you could have for decades to come. 78 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,679 Speaker 1: Zarahirjee is a climate reporter for Bloomberg. She's been closely 79 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: tracking the Trump administration attacks on climate science since President 80 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: Trump's inauguration in January. 81 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 3: This administration is trying to pull back on a lot 82 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 3: of climate policy all at once, and it's doing it 83 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 3: in a lot of different ways. 84 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: In just a few months, the Trump administration has cut funding, 85 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: canceled grants, and fired workers at an alphabet soup of 86 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: federal agencies, the EPA, FEMA, NOAH, the CDC, NASA, the DOI, 87 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: and the DOE. They all handle aspects of the way 88 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: the US anticipates, mitigates, tracks, and response to climate change 89 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: in natural disasters at a time when climate related catastrophes 90 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: are getting more intense and more expensive to deal with. 91 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: To cite a prominent example is like last September a 92 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: year ago, a hurricane came to the mountains of western 93 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: North Carolina. 94 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: That's climate reporter Eric Roston. 95 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: And in December, two or three months after the storm, 96 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: the state of North Carolina put the damage estimate like 97 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: fifty nine billion dollars. So, like, that's fifty nine billion dollars. 98 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: Is that somebody's going to pay for by building new things, 99 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 2: or that nobody's going to pay for and people will 100 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: move or not build back or find new jobs. 101 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 1: As catastrophes get more expensive, the administration is making big 102 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: changes to the organizations that deal with them most directly. 103 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: Some of the biggest changes have come for the Environmental 104 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: Protection Agency, led by Lee Zelden, the former New York 105 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: congressman's history includes voting against environmental legislation, and Zara says, 106 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: perhaps unsurprisingly, Zelden has been pushing the EPA to take 107 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: some new positions. 108 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,679 Speaker 3: We're used to thinking about the EPA as this key 109 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 3: environmental regulatory agency, and instead, under Zelden's lead, they're really 110 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: pushing quite openly a deregulatory approach. 111 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: In March, Zelden announced dozens of rollbacks to regulation. 112 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 4: Agency is initiating thirty one historic actions to fulfill President 113 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 4: Trump's promise to unleash American energy, revitalize our auto industry, 114 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 4: restore the rule of law, and give power back to 115 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 4: the States. 116 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: Then in July, Zelden announced that the EPA would also 117 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: try to reverse the landmark endangerment finding, which we talked 118 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: about earlier. Zelden and the EPA haven't officially revoked the rule, 119 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: but Zara says the fact that it's even on the 120 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: table says a lot about Zelden's priorities. 121 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: They're also looking at reconsidering car emission standards, power plant 122 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: pollution rules, facilities having to report on some of their emissions, 123 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: and the. 124 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: New direction for the EPA goes beyond deregulation. 125 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 3: They announced in July that they're moving to close their 126 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 3: Office of Research and Development, which is like their key 127 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 3: research office that's looking at future environmental. 128 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: Risks, and like many other federal agencies, they're bleeding staff. 129 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: Over two thousand EPA staff have taken kind of the 130 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 3: deferral program or this incentive program, which means that they 131 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: haven't been working, but they've been paid for a couple 132 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: months and will eventually leave the agency. 133 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: Zara says these changes to the EPA could leave permanent scars. 134 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 3: It might not all be super visible to someone on 135 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: the ground right now, but in the coming months, in 136 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 3: the coming years, as experts leave, as things stop showing 137 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: up on the website. It's not just the protections that 138 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 3: we've come to expect that exists today, but the people 139 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 3: looking for what is the next thing that we need 140 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 3: to be worried about, and we will be caught potentially 141 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 3: flat footed with whatever the next future threat is. 142 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: It's a similar story at FEMA, the agency that prepares 143 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: for and responds to disasters like floods, fires, and hurricanes. 144 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 3: People most know FEMA for when a major disaster happens, 145 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 3: they can come on the ground and help. Then they 146 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 3: can provide funding, and we've already started to see that 147 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 3: actual disaster aid funding has been less than in previous 148 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 3: years when they have simply stopped providing hazard mitigation, something 149 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 3: that used to just be an automatic, Yes, extra money 150 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: to help states. 151 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: Then there are the funding and staff and cuts that 152 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: affect the scientists who help predict disasters before they happen, 153 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: the scientists at NOAH. 154 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 3: It is a very kind of immediate impact that people 155 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 3: can see because these are meteorologists that are tracking to 156 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: see if there's a tornado and helping put out tornado alerts, 157 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 3: for example, or if there's a hurricane, or if there's 158 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: a flood. Because of this, there's actually been a lot 159 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 3: of response, a lot of criticism. Members of Congress have 160 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 3: spoken up, and so now actually the agency is hiring back. 161 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: Then there's the Department of the Interior and the Department 162 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: of Energy. Grant programs, permitting and tax incentives for clean 163 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: energy projects typically run through these agencies. Now, previously approved 164 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: projects are finding that their permits or their funding are 165 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: in peril. 166 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 3: So you have a lot of companies in the space 167 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 3: that are scrambling because they thought they had projects, they 168 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 3: thought they had tax incentives, that they would be able 169 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 3: to use, and now those are disappearing. 170 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: And beyond what's been lost at the DOE, Eric says 171 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: he's also been paying close attention to what kind of 172 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: climate related research is being done there. 173 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: The Department of Energy issued a report by five scientists 174 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 2: who are known within the scientific community for being skeptics 175 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 2: of the I only want to call it mainstream. It's 176 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 2: just of the science. 177 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: Their report was published in July, and it's said global 178 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: warming projections are exaggerated, that some policies to reduce emissions 179 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: may do more harm than good, and. 180 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:54,119 Speaker 2: Was immediately sort of swarmed by enormous amounts of scientific scrutiny. 181 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: In early September, a group of eighty five scientists published 182 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: a four hundred page rebuttal to the DOE report, writing 183 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: that the scientists behind it appeared to have been quote 184 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: personally recruited by the Secretary of Energy to advance a 185 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: particular viewpoint favored by DOE leadership. However, contested its findings. 186 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: The paper is already shaping environmental policy. It came out 187 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: within a week of the Trump administration announcing they'd be 188 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: reconsidering the endangerment finding, and Zara says it helped the 189 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: administration bolster its argument. 190 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 3: This is them putting out a report with effectively alternative science. 191 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 3: It's not just pulling back on the work, but they're 192 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 3: kind of pushing an alternative narrative which goes a step beyond. 193 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: After the break, unpacking the economic and human consequences of 194 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: slash and climate funding and how reversing course on green 195 00:11:50,760 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: investments could undermine the US on the global stage. Seing 196 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: the economic impacts of the Trump administration's many attacks on 197 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: climate science is tricky. How do you account for the 198 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: costs of a disaster that hasn't happened yet. How do 199 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: you model how more pollution could lead to higher spending 200 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: on healthcare? 201 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: Climate change. There's obviously a ton of ways to talk 202 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: about it, but an important way is that souped and nuts, 203 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,359 Speaker 2: it's an economic problem. 204 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: Climate reporter Eric Roston again on the front end. 205 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: It's an economic problem because the prices of incumbent energy 206 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: don't really match up with the cost on society. Economists 207 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: call that an externality, a cost that society absorbs but 208 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 2: that producers don't. 209 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: Halting climate science research also has other more direct economic 210 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: impacts on private companies. Like companies that work on climate 211 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: projects supported by federal funding or that rely on federal 212 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: climate data to inform their business strategy. Take the National 213 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: Climate Assessment as an example. 214 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 2: This is a document that companies talk about earnings calls. 215 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: Chipotle and Marriott and Travelers have all cited the NCAA 216 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: in public disclosures, But in April, the administration dismissed hundreds 217 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: of outside scientists who had volunteered their time to write 218 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: the next version of the report, and the government website 219 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: hosting past reports has been taken down. 220 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 2: People just want to make good decisions and taking away 221 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: scientific information that is paid for by the public and 222 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 2: presented to the public that is increasingly rare. People have 223 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 2: come to expect it because they've come to realize that 224 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: they need it. 225 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: Climate reporter Zarahirji says that some companies have been particularly 226 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: vocal about how important it is for the government to 227 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: continue to invest in climate science. 228 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 3: Rivian, which is this electric vehicle company, was among those 229 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 3: that had spoken up at this four day hearing in August. 230 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: That was a hearing over the proposed Endangerment finding reversal. 231 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 3: Offering comments about the move to reconsider the endangerment finding, 232 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: and they specifically were speaking out against it and about 233 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: the harms that could have for the automotive industry and 234 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 3: consumers writ large. I mean, you just think about the 235 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: regulatory environment. Businesses often thrive and having a stable regulatory environment, 236 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 3: So any dramatic or shift changes to that can just 237 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 3: be rough, especially if that leads to states having their 238 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: own rules and then they're dealing with an environment where 239 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 3: they have fifty different rules to deal with rather than 240 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: when they just had one federal environment. And I think, 241 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 3: especially when you're hearing from the world of clean energy, 242 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 3: clean energy tech, solar companies, wing companies, they've been specifically 243 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 3: targeted by this administration. I mean, the impacts have been 244 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 3: pretty dramatic, and those companies are speaking. 245 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: Out, speaking out, and sometimes taking legal action. The energy 246 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: firm orsted along with the states of Rhode Island, and 247 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: it sued the Trump administration for halting a wind farm 248 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: project that was nearly complete. 249 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 3: So these effects are real and they're trickling down, and 250 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: I think we'll start to hear more too as more 251 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 3: of these changes come down. 252 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: If the US stops investing in these spaces, how might 253 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: the country fall behind on the global stage? And who 254 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: is best positioned to take the lead here. 255 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: China already owns most of the new economy. You just 256 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: look at any clean energy technology or like part for 257 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 2: a technology in China provides the world with probably you know, 258 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 2: it's insane, like fifty to eighty percent of it. So 259 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, we're already losing. And if 260 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: you take a long view, the world we live in 261 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: has grown and been sustained by decades of us spending 262 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 2: more money in science than just about anybody else. It's 263 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: not clear who was going to step forward and replenish 264 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 2: that in other countries that do invest in this stuff 265 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: may not also be democratic countries, and therefore the science 266 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: doesn't come along with a mandate for transparency. 267 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 3: One of the biggest places to stand to benefit, and 268 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 3: we've heard this from our sources, is China as well 269 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 3: as potentially Europe. They may have engineering advancements or kind 270 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 3: of business advancements and spaces where we're just not operating 271 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 3: or the companies don't have the space for. But they're 272 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 3: also looking to poach literally the experts who work here. 273 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 3: This is something where we're going to start seeing in 274 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 3: the coming years who may benefit because they're trying to 275 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 3: grab up all this talent that's sort of being left 276 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 3: on the floor when we have all of these funding 277 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 3: cuts and these staffing cuts. 278 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: And while so much of the US government's climate science 279 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: work has been reversed in just a matter of months, 280 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: Zara says rebuilding will take much longer. 281 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 3: I don't think this administration has been shy about this, 282 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 3: but I think there's a sense that maybe the private 283 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 3: sector other people will step up. And the reality is 284 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 3: from me talking to local emergency managers, is if the 285 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 3: federal governments support for their efforts go away, it's just 286 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 3: not going to happen. No one's actually going to step in. 287 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: There have been a lot of efforts, specifically in climate 288 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 3: where if the Trump administration has ended a rapport, or 289 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 3: ended a program or ended a data set, some of 290 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 3: those people are trying to find ways where within civil 291 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 3: society they can resurrect it in some way. But not 292 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 3: everything will be resurrected, and we're still waiting to see 293 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 3: what's actually going to be around at the end of 294 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 3: the four years. 295 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 296 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: To get more from the Big Take and unlimited access 297 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: to all of Bloomberg dot Com. Subscribe today at Bloomberg 298 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: dot com Slashed podcast offer. If you liked this episode, 299 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever 300 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show. 301 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow