WEBVTT - The Verdict Is In 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.160 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.200 He just walked around and shot all the black people. 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:18.159 The cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.000 figure out how to go on and how to compete. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.880 I wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.120 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:34.120 app or wherever you get your podcasts. All the State 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:38.760 of Ohio asked to show is that George was involved 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.879 in the case at the beginning, and I think the evidence, 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.080 in my opinion, showed that he was. You know, one 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:49.319 thing that Kneppa did strongly was to show slideshow of 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.440 each of the victims in the prime of their life 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.279 and then show them dead in bed. But maybe no 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:01.320 mistake about it. Those two children in that we're never 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:06.279 going to be raised anything other than Blacker. That moment 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.000 when you walk for the jury and you talked to 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.800 you and you try to remind them what is at 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.960 stake that these people have died. We're talking about eight 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:26.679 people that were slaughtered. This is the Piked and Massacre 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:32.319 returned to Pike County Season four, episode twenty four. The 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:37.360 verdict is in. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.280 Katie Studios. With Stephanie Ladecker and Jeff Shane. We're at 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.200 the closing arguments of George Wagner the Fourth's trial. It's 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.640 important to note that George Wagner has pleaded not guilty 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.880 and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.640 Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.920 guilty to all charges. We're in piked in for the 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.440 final days of trial. We've heard testimony from Jake, Angela 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.880 and George Wagner. But before we can hear closing arguments, 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.400 Judge Daring has some news for the jury. The jury 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.359 learned the death penalty against George Widener the Fourth has 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:14.359 been taken off the table. That is the plea deal 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.280 the prosecution struck with George's brother Jake and his mother 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.200 Angela an exchange for their testimony. After the announcement, the 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:27.800 judge addresses the court the jury, we have reached the 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.040 point of which council for each side will be giving 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.359 closing arguments prosecutor Angree Kneppa begins our closing arguments. I 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.079 just want to first of all, start by thinking each 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.360 and every one of you. You guys have probably served 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:43.360 at least, as far as I know, the longest of 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.679 any criminal jury, and each of you have paid strict attention. 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:52.639 We are here because eight innocent victims were slaughtered, most 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:56.400 of them in their sleep, all of them unarmed. These 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:02.200 murders should never have happened. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.880 speaks to the significance of these closing arguments. I think 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.120 they do matter. I think that it's like going to 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.799 a beautiful concert where there's going to be this grand crescendo, 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:15.000 that thing that moves people. You better bring it, and 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:16.800 it needs to be that thing that is going to 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.519 resonate with those people. And it's taken all this time, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.480 thousands of miles can you imagine that have been traveled 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.240 all over the place, all way up to Alaska and 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:30.280 back through Canada. All of that culminates in this moment. 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.800 That moment, you know, when you walk to that jury 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.560 and you talk to them and you try to remind 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.320 them what is at stake that these people have died. 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:48.840 We're talking about eight people that were slaughtered. Prosecutor Canepa 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.360 shows photos of the victims on the large screen in 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.560 the courtroom. She starts with Frankie Rodin and reminds the 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.280 jury about who he was. She then speaks about Hannah 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:03.440 Hazel Gilly and a Hazel Hilly very proud of her son, 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.240 her six month old son. She was all of twenty 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.520 years old as well at the very beginning of her 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.480 life and especially her life as a mother. Her crime, 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:18.200 you her testimony that her crime was solely being there, 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.840 nothing else. If she had not been there, she would 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:27.880 still be alive today. The defense of checks prosecutors stopped 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.680 showing images on the large screen, but she continues speaking 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.200 about the victims. Chris Senior, There's a lot to say 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.919 about him. He was obviously a family man, provided for 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.240 a family. But the reason that he was killed is 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.120 because he was the patriarch of this family and they 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.240 knew that he would again figure out who did it 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:54.080 and potentially seek vengeance. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.320 in Cincinnati now at Local twelve. You know one thing 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.080 that Kennepa did strongly. She tried to do at the 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.440 beginning was to show slideshow of each of the victims 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.200 in the prime of their life, show pictures and then 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.120 show them dead in bed. Well, that led to objections 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.200 and then she basically threw that out the window. So 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.560 she abandoned to slide show, but she still went on 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:22.240 to go through here's this victim, here's this victim. I'll 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:24.560 at them, bringing it back to them and bringing it 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.520 back to the fact that they were asleep. Prosecutor Kneppa 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.440 touches on all of the evidence presented in trial, laying 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.559 out the timeline from the beginning and hitting on each 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.360 piece of evidence tying George Wagner and his immediate family 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.839 to the murder of the Rodent, Manly and Gilly families. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.679 Special Prosecutor Andrei Geneppa said there was plenty of direct 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.000 and circumstantial evidence a tie George Wagener the four to 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.840 the homicide. One example the false statements that Wagner's gave 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.960 two investigators that everything was fine between Jake and Hannah 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.800 Rodin when she was killed, but custody over their daughters 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:03.919 was at a boiling. Then we see the Facebook message 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.760 from Hannah May saying that she won't sign papers. Ever, 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.000 they'll have to kill her first, and we know that 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.080 in four short months later, she and seven members of 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.880 her family are dead. But we know that in January 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.080 of twenty sixteen, they had made the decision that they 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.159 were going to kill them, and you start seeing the 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:26.719 purchases corresponding to that timeline. It's hard to imagine that 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:32.320 eight people would lose their lives over such a flimsy motive, 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.159 but it's true. Prosecutor Caneppa reminds the jury of the 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.719 evidence presented throughout the case, the shoe prints matching George 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.400 Wagner's at the crime scene, as well as the bullet 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.800 casings matching the weapons used in the murder. We know 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:51.320 that George went into that room, and we know that 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.200 he stepped into blood, and we see it on our 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:59.720 diagrams exactly where that was. Prosecutor Caneppa reminds the jurors 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:03.000 of George Wagner's testimony where he claimed he hadn't known 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.080 that his brother Jake and father Billy were going to 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:10.560 murder members of the Rodent, Manly and Gilly families. Did 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.000 you know your family was going to kill these people? No? 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:20.480 Going to happen. The prosecution then ties George to the 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:24.960 crimes through Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner's testimony. George says 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.640 to Jake, the family has spoken. There is nothing that 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:34.800 happens in that household that is not a group decision. 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:40.280 Jake and Angela have told you everything that this defendant 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.920 did that night. I'm not here to say that Jake 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.600 Wagner is a hero by any stretch of imagination. He 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:51.800 is a despicable, vile human being. But the difference between 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:56.400 him and his brother is that he at least came 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:00.080 full kinetic acknowledges that when George took the stand and 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.880 he disputed what his brother and mother testified about him. 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:08.200 You've heard Jake and your mother both say that that 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.120 was the motive, and my mom and brother are lying 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.160 to you. They have been like everybody else. Angela Wagner, 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:21.000 this is her son. Ask yourself, what motive would she 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:29.200 have to say that George was involved. If George wasn't involved, 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.320 why would you do that to your son? You would say, Jake, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:39.200 Billy and I didn't. Despite all the evidence presented by prosecutors, 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.280 it could come down to who the jury believes Jake 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.680 and Angela or defendant George. Prosecutor Kneppa addresses Jake and 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:51.160 Angela Wagner's testimony head on. So let's talk about Jake 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:56.880 and Angela's testimony. Jake Wagner gave us a lot of information. 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.520 His testimony was corroborated by physical evidence. He led us 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:07.000 to the murder weapons. So again, what Jake had to 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:11.440 tell us was corroborated with physical evidence that we didn't 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:15.080 know about. It was also corroborated with physical evidence we 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:21.800 did know about. Then we talked to Angela Wagner, and 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.880 she corroborates what Jake Wagner told us. They basically corroborate 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:30.040 each other. And the magical and mystical thing about that is, 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.920 as you heard, she was not provided with her son's statement. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.920 She had no idea what he said to us when 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:43.720 he sat down with us. Again, James Pilcher, one of 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.280 the points she made very clearly was Jake and Angela 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.360 had no chance to corroborate none. They couldn't see each 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.520 other's statements. They're in separate jails. They couldn't talk, they 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:56.160 couldn't watch each other's testimony. Nothing. How come their stories 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.600 line up so well versus what George had to say, 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:01.880 and they're both saying the same thing, are close enough 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.840 to the same thing, whereas Georgie is saying something completely different. 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:06.480 Who are you going to believe? And then on top 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.000 of that, she makes a point it's one thing for 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.480 a brother to testify against her brother, but it's another 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.839 thing for a mother to testify against her hunt even 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.040 as she says she loved that came across is very compelling. 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.480 Prosecutor Krneppa argues that Jake and Angela Wagner's testimony matches, 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:28.880 especially on one key point. Both Jake and Angela tell 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:34.560 you they are guilty. Jake is guilty, Angela is guilty. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.520 They don't deny that, they don't lie about that. The 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.160 reason the story's match is because they both finally decided 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.360 to tell the truth. He's attorney and legal analyst Mike Allen. 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:51.240 I think the credibility goes with Angela because George any 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:55.000 number of times just said I don't recall, I don't remember, 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.200 I didn't count him up. But there are a lot 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.240 of times that he said that I don't recall hearing 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.319 that in Angela or Jake's testimony. For that matter. It 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.160 was just pretty straightforward. So I think if you didn't 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.440 have the physical evidence and it's George against those two, 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.800 I think they win and George doesn't because a lot 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.200 of things he didn't remember, and he contradicted himself on 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.640 a number of occasions. Well, George Wagner appeared calm during 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.000 his testimony on the stand. Prosecutor Canneppa reminds the jury 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:33.880 of the wire tapp recording of George. I would strongly 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.280 invite you to listen to that recording again and ask 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.320 yourselves if that is the voice, or the demeanor, or 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.800 the attitude or the approach of somebody who would ever 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:49.520 sit one out again. James Pilcher, I will say Kneppa 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.960 did kind of bring it home early on when she 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.760 said you saw George up on the stand, but then 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.920 you also heard George on these recordings. Well, the real 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.040 George Wagner, please stand up. Those are my words, not hers, 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.960 But basically she's saying, the real George Wagner is not 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:07.439 the one that was able to help on the stand. 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:09.719 He was coached, there was whatever he was. The real 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.520 George Wagner is the one year in those recordings. For 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.600 all intensive purpose as a madman. He indicated to you 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:20.520 that a few days before the homicides that Billy told 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.600 George that he wanted George to shoot Chris in the head. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.520 He went up there to Union Hill Road on April 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.960 twenty first, twenty sixteen, knowing full well what was going 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.440 to happen. Well, George may not have pulled the trigger 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:39.200 during the murders. The prosecution contends that doesn't matter. To 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.600 prove conspiracy to murder, he doesn't have to be the 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.920 person that actually pulled the trigger. Right. You heard that 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.280 Jake Wagner pled to eight counts of aggravated murder because 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.200 he pulled the trigger as to five according to him, 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:59.280 but he was compliciting three. You heard Angela Wagner say 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.280 that she also was guilty of accounts of aggravated murder 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.040 because she was complicit in it because she knew what 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.160 they were going to do. She aided and embedded them. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.760 You were complicit because you knew what was going to happen. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.679 You knew what they were going to go do, and 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.720 you aid it and ebedted them. Here's Jeff speaking with 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.640 Mike Allen. So I think she really hammered home, which 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.520 I think is important to remind the listeners is that 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.560 George could still be found guilty of murder even if 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.280 he didn't pull the trigger under Ohio law, Like, as 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.559 long as he's involved in the planning and the cover up, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.599 that's enough to find him guilty. All the State of 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:42.280 Ohio asked to show is that George was involved in 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.240 the case at the beginning, and I think the evidence, 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.600 in my opinion, showed that he was in the beginning 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:53.360 and then he was part of the execution of the crime. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:55.880 And I think that's clear that he was a part 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.720 of it and a part of the cover up, and 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.600 that gets you into the complicity part of it. And 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.400 that's all you need for a murder conviction. I mean, 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.720 you don't have to show, and they couldn't show, and 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.040 they didn't show that George pulled the trigger because he didn't, 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.320 but he was in it up to his neck, and 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.319 I think that was clear at the end of all 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.800 the testimony and evidence, and Miss Kinnappot really kind of 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.040 just hit on all of those points in her closing. 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.160 The prosecution also spoke to the plea deal given to 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.600 Jake in exchange for his testimony. Mister Parker has called 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.200 this the deal of the century for Jake Wagner, the 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.640 deal of the century. But let's just talk a little 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.560 bit about that. First of all, he played guilty to 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.000 every county indictment except for the death timing specifications, which 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.520 we dismissed in exchange for him telling us what happened. 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.160 Not just telling us what happened. But you heard from 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.360 Special Agent Scheider that the victim's family was consulted in 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:02.000 this and as you might imagine, if this was somebody 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.240 that you loved, you would want to know what happened 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:11.160 more than and some of them got the peace of 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:15.240 minding we're looking for because their loved one wesleeping. Some 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.760 of them did not, but they wanted to know, and 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:25.600 they wanted us to do the deal again, Mike Allen. 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.400 Obviously from their conduct in the courtroom, there's a close 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:35.120 relationship between the prosecutor and the Road and family. I 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.960 don't think they have any problem at all with the 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.160 deals that were made in this case. But in any 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.120 homicide case, you have to get buy in from the 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.040 victim's family, and I think that's what she did here. 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:53.800 I see a lot of cooperation and a lot of 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:58.840 admiration too. So I don't have any doubt that Angie 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:03.640 Kaneppa consulted probably at length with the Road and family 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:09.280 before they cut the deal with Jake and Angela. After 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:14.480 nearly five hours, Prosecutor Kannappa finishes her closing argument. I 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:16.880 know this is very, very long. I just wanted to 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.880 kind of try my best to kind of lay a 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:24.080 foundation of the evidence that we believe supports a conviction 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.840 of George Wagner the fourth of each and every count 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.080 in this indictment, whether he is a principal offender or 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.680 whether he is equicit in it. He knew what was 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:39.480 going to happen. He participated in what happened. Jake and 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:44.600 Angela have told you everything that this defendant did that night, 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:50.040 and his participation in the aggravated murders and all the 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:54.120 other crimes listed in the indictment. Respectfully, the class that 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.880 you return verdicts of guilty as to each count into 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:01.200 each specification. Thank you. The day of the trial ends 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:05.119 with Prosecutor Kneppa's closing argument. Here's Mike Allen, followed by 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.920 investigative reporter A Jeanette Levy of the Lawn Crime Network. 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.160 The defense has to make the points that they want 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.119 to make, and they also apt to counter what the 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.680 prosecutor says in closing argument. I think that Jake and 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:24.679 Angelis's testimony, coupled with the wire taps that do not 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.159 bode well for George. He still sounds like he's in 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.640 the thick of this and he knows exactly what's going on. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.879 You would think that that would just be very difficult 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.680 for the defense to overcome, for them to come into 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.600 court and feel confident that they were going to somehow 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.920 poke enough holes in Jake and Angelis's testimony to make 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:51.520 George not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. We're going to 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:56.960 take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.720 I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called Girlfriends. 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.120 Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.200 of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:14.399 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:19.040 he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:24.240 He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.760 Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.800 time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for bob Us 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.720 girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.280 pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:40.919 I'll be honest with your FIS saw him right now, 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.280 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.080 would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.159 always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:53.800 the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 0:18:53.880 --> 0:19:03.240 you get your podcasts. The next day, the defense delivers 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.000 their closing remarks. John Parker opens with a joke about 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:08.520 how he's not going to go as long as the 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.120 state did. In his closing remarks, Parker then goes after 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:17.280 the state's key witnesses, Jake and Angela Wagner. Angela and Jake, 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.360 he's a mama's boy who heard testimony about that. They're liars, 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:29.399 they're connorst they're thieves. Defense attorney Parker brings up Jake's character, 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:36.200 laughing and smiling and smirking as he's talking about these murders. 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:41.200 He's called waterfall. I think he's like, God, he didn't 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:42.800 see that care in the world. It's like it's like 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.320 sitting around talking about a football game on Monday morning. 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.760 Is the way he's talking about killing these people. It's disgusting. 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.480 He's a sick man. You can't believe what that guy says. 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.520 The defense hits again on an argument that they've used 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.800 repeatedly throughout the trial, that the evidence tying George w 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.520 Agners of the murderers is at best circumstantial. There's not 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.160 proof here beyond the usual doubt that George's even up there, 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.960 and we could offer him nothing for his testimony. He 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:14.320 was vigorously cross examined. You saw his demeanor. Compare that 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:18.399 to Jinks and his mother testimony. George is the shooter. 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:23.280 There's no reliable testimony that he was even there. This 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.639 has to be proven beyond a reasonable There's all kinds 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:31.879 of reasons to doubt. Parker then tries to dismantle the 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.440 state's argument that the Wagners are a walking criminal conspiracy. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.200 The state in this case that you have seen with 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.600 respect to George, paints with a very very broad brush. 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:50.040 All right, how many times have we heard they them, 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:55.800 you guys, the Wagners. All right, George's wants about trial here, 0:20:56.200 --> 0:21:00.159 all right. We are not here to defend Billy, are 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.680 not here to defend Angela we're certainly not here to 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.320 defend Jakes, all right, And basically, I mean there were 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.800 days and days that went by when you didn't hear 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:15.320 Georgie's name, and that's significant. Parker asked the jury to 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.200 return a verdict of not guilty on all charges. You 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:24.159 folks stand between the power of the government man with 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.280 George White. So you've seen the power of the government 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:32.080 and in this particular case, they've overreached when it comes 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:37.600 to Georgia. Mike Allen offers his thoughts to how the 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.920 defense did on closing arguments. Well, I think he did 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.840 as well as he could. And his closing argument did 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:47.040 not take five hours. But he did as well as 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.520 he could with what he had, which wasn't a heck 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.680 of a lot. He just didn't, you know. He called 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.800 the state's witnesses liars, con artists, mainly Jake and Angela, 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:02.080 really hit Jay Carr and really, I mean that's pretty 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.840 much all he had. When you're a defense counsel, you 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.479 get the case that you get and you're not going 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:12.240 to be able to change things factually. So the short 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:15.520 answer is, I think they did as well as they could. 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:21.920 After the defense rests Andrew Wilson delivers the prosecution's rebuttal. 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:27.000 The concept of complicity works in Ohio is that if 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:32.119 two or more people set out to achieve a criminal purpose, 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:36.359 a criminal goal, when one doing one part of others 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:40.320 doing the other part, then each one of them is 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:45.280 individually guilty as if they were the principal offender Festival. 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:51.600 That's how it works. There's been no direct testimony that 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.919 he actually pulled the trigger and any one of those murders, 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:01.800 would you better believe he's up to his eyeball as 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:05.000 they plot, they prepare, as they execute, If they cover 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:08.080 up those murders, he's in it up to his highlands. 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:14.280 The prosecution has a huge advantage, and boy, I tell you, 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.320 I think they utilized it in this case to where 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:20.560 they get the final word. They get to address the 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:24.520 jury after the defense does their closing argument. It's done 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:28.600 because the state has the burden of proof. That's why 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:30.960 they get the last fight at the apple. You know, 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:35.680 having been a defense counsel and having been a prosecutor 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:39.480 that I can tell you that's a huge advantage for 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:44.680 the state prosecutor. Wilson addresses Jake and Angelo Wagner's testimony. 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:52.600 They match. The only way that happens without burd knowing 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:56.639 what he said is that they're telling the truth about 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:00.600 what they observed, what they knew. Well goes on to 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:03.879 address Jake and his testimony. He's not our star witness. 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:09.920 He's a terrible, terrible human being. He's evil, and he's 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:14.000 going to spend the rest of his miserable existence locked 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:16.840 in a cage. He's going to spend the rest of 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:20.720 his life separated from what means most of him, his 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:28.080 fam He will never be free again. And as incredibly 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:32.760 distasteful as it was, the state entered into an agreement 0:24:33.080 --> 0:24:37.000 with Jake. For one we need him one thing, Toms. 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:42.240 That's that's what we need from him. Him leading us 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:50.120 to those guns was incredibly important. Wilson also reveals while 0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:53.159 the prosecution didn't play the tape of George Wagner's interview 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:57.639 at the Canadian border again James Pilcher, and that was 0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:00.360 because they didn't want that tape to service his own 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:02.639 testimony and his own denial. If he was going to 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:04.080 deny it, he was going to have to deny it 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.280 from the stand, and they didn't want to give him 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:10.080 the opportunity to tailor his testimony to what he said 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:14.080 at that point, which was key too, because he did 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:17.080 have a major inconsistency between what he said at the 0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:20.600 border versus what he said on the stand. At the 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:23.640 border he said he went to bed about some time 0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:27.960 after midnight after watching the Ferry movie whatever. But then 0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:29.800 on the stand he said he went to bed before 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:33.920 ten with the kids, and yeah, he should have heard 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:37.040 them leave, but he didn't. He usually stays up an 0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:39.359 hour after he goes to bed, and somehow he didn't 0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:42.120 hear Jake and Billy Leaves didn't even know they had gone. 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:46.840 So that was a major inconsistency, and Wilson brought that 0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:50.680 home in his clothing. Andrew Wilson then shows a photo 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:54.680 of the Wagner family with all the kids. Or don't 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:58.639 you look at this picture, man, This picture speaks volumes. 0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:03.560 It speaks volumes. They don't want you to believe that 0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:07.919 this case is about custom, that these murders had anything 0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:11.520 to do about custom, but made no mistake about it. 0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:15.920