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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast.

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Speaker 2: My name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I am the host, and if you are unfamiliar with

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Speaker 1: what couch Talks is, it is the bonus episode of

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy Podcast where I answer questions that listeners

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Speaker 1: send to Catherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com.

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Speaker 1: And quick reminder before we get into today's topic that

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Speaker 1: although I am answering your questions and I am a therapist,

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Speaker 1: this podcast does not serve as a replacement or a

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Speaker 1: substitute for any actual mental health services. So let's just

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Speaker 1: get started. I'm not going to today read a email.

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Speaker 1: I'm just actually consolidating two questions that I've gotten a

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Speaker 1: couple of different ways and through a different couple different avenues.

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Speaker 2: I tend to stay away.

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Speaker 1: From this subject a lot because I think people think

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say something differently than what I'm actually

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Speaker 1: going to say. Because today we're talking about the idea

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Speaker 1: of if you can date somebody with different political beliefs

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Speaker 1: than you, and also as a therapist, how do you

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Speaker 1: work with clients that have different views than yours? So

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Speaker 1: I get just questions about, like, how do you handle

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Speaker 1: political differences in different ways. And those are two ways

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Speaker 1: that I've gotten them recently. One, can you have a

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Speaker 1: partner that has different political beliefs than you like? Do

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Speaker 1: you think that that's something that can allow you to

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Speaker 1: have long term success in your relationships and health in

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Speaker 1: your relationships? And also especially I think I'm getting this

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Speaker 1: a lot more now too because of the client. We're

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Speaker 1: in the season, we're in the impending election that we're

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Speaker 1: about to have. But yeah, the second part of what

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today is as a therapist,

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Speaker 1: what happens or how do you handle or deal with

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Speaker 1: your own beliefs while clients come in with sometimes very

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Speaker 1: opposing in different beliefs and what do you do with

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Speaker 1: that and how does that show up in the.

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Speaker 2: Therapy room with you?

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Speaker 1: So you aren't going to be hearing what I believe,

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Speaker 1: who I'm voting for, where I stand on certain things.

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Speaker 1: We're just going to talk about the general idea of

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Speaker 1: disagreeing than any disagreeing on any actual concrete beliefs.

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Speaker 2: So let's start with the dating scenario.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So can you be in relationship romantic relationship and

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Speaker 1: have a healthy relationship with somebody who has different political

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Speaker 1: beliefs in you. Well, my simple answer is yes, no.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it's so simple that there isn't a simple answer,

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Speaker 1: because there's just not an answer. It depends on the person.

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Speaker 1: It depends on the issues you disagree on, It depends

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Speaker 1: on what those issues mean to you or what those

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Speaker 1: issues mean to your partner. It depends on the degree

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Speaker 1: and which those issues hold meaning, And it depends on

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Speaker 1: each partner's understanding and ability to regulate the opposing belief

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Speaker 1: like the partner's ability to understand the other person and

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Speaker 1: their ability to regulate and hold opposing beliefs as somebody else.

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Speaker 1: And really what I'm saying is it all just very

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Speaker 1: much depends. I think for certain people it can be

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Speaker 1: extremely unhealthy and harder than relationships need to be and

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Speaker 1: probably not worth it. And some people do it really

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Speaker 1: well and it works for them, and it might not

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Speaker 1: be what you would want, might not be what I

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Speaker 1: would want, but for those people it works really well.

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Speaker 1: So I don't really like putting these very harsh, rigid

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Speaker 1: boundaries on If you don't have all these things, then

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Speaker 1: like you can't be in a healthy relationship with somebody.

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Speaker 1: For somebody that could be true, and that doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: mean for everybody. And I talked about when I did

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Speaker 1: the episode on third Places. I think that's when I

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Speaker 1: talked about it, that we have this very skewed idea

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Speaker 1: of what differing political beliefs even look like. And that

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Speaker 1: is because what is shown to us, and I mean

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Speaker 1: what it's shown to us like in the media and

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Speaker 1: social media in places like that, what we see are

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Speaker 1: the very big, loud, opposing, polarizing views, not how the

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Speaker 1: majority of people feel or how the majority of people

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Speaker 1: process or understand or think. And the things that are

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Speaker 1: platformed are the most outrageous, not necessarily the most common.

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Speaker 1: So then we assume that the people who have different

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Speaker 1: views in US all sit in that category of the

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Speaker 1: very loud, outrageous, big, and this, in turn is why

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Speaker 1: we feel so scared to bring these conversations up with

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Speaker 1: friends and family. So we just have these ideas of

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Speaker 1: what people think. We have these ideas of what people

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Speaker 1: who have different views in US are and how they are,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of times that's not correct, But we

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Speaker 1: don't ever have the conversations, so we never learned that

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Speaker 1: that's not correct, and we are not really shown anywhere

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Speaker 1: how to respectfully, calmly and lovingly disagree with someone, how

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Speaker 1: to do that in a way where you can communicate

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Speaker 1: with someone and hear another person's thoughts. We are way

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Speaker 1: more ready to fight than we are ready to listen.

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Speaker 1: And I say this knowing that I'm there with you too.

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Speaker 1: I'm also looking at the same hued kinds of algorithms.

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Speaker 2: So it's tough.

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Speaker 1: And I actually put on Instagram because I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about this, and I was asking this question a couple

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Speaker 1: different ways, and what happens when you asked a question

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Speaker 1: a couple different ways? So on Instagram I posted if

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Speaker 1: my followers believed that people with opposing political beliefs can

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Speaker 1: be in relationship with each other? And then I was like, huh,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if I ask it this way, what would happen?

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Speaker 1: And so the second slide was, now what happens when

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Speaker 1: I say it this way? Would you date someone with

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Speaker 1: opposing political beliefs? So the first question was can you

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Speaker 1: date someone with opposing political views? The second question was

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Speaker 1: would you date someone with opposing political views? And what

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Speaker 1: was really interesting is that there was just a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a difference, but there was a difference. So

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Speaker 1: the first way I asked it, can you date somebody

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Speaker 1: with opposing political views? Of people have said sure, twenty

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Speaker 1: seven percent no way, and sixty two percent say it depends.

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Speaker 2: Now, when I said.

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Speaker 1: Would you like specifically with the person answering this question,

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Speaker 1: would you do it, seventeen percent said sure, so more

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Speaker 1: people said sure, thirty eight percent said no, not for me,

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Speaker 1: So more people also said no way, like not for me,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do this, and then forty four

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Speaker 1: percent said it depends. So the interesting thing is that

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Speaker 1: it depends changed. So when people were thinking about for themselves,

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Speaker 1: they were less likely to not know to stay on

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Speaker 1: that it depends range, which is I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: makes sense, and I would have assumed that a little

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Speaker 1: bit of we know ourselves better versus what would.

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Speaker 2: Be good or write for other people.

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Speaker 1: And I also had a couple people message me stories,

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Speaker 1: and there are a couple people who said that they

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Speaker 1: started a relationship with similar views in either of themselves

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Speaker 1: or their partners used changed and so when they would

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Speaker 1: have thought like no, I wouldn't have done that, they've

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Speaker 1: had to learn, you know, this is who I'm with now,

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Speaker 1: I love this person. I want to maintain our relationship,

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Speaker 1: and so we have to do a work around like

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Speaker 1: what this looks like. And so what I gain from

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Speaker 1: that is, yeah, it is hard. It is hard because

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Speaker 1: we I mean, we want people to agree with this.

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Speaker 1: We also want to be seen and heard and understand

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Speaker 1: by our partners. We want to be on the same page,

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Speaker 1: we want to be aligned. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: people change. I know my beliefs have changed over time,

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Speaker 1: and if I would have gotten married much younger, my

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Speaker 1: beliefs would be different than they were when I got

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Speaker 1: married because my beliefs have changed in the time of

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Speaker 1: being a young adult to I guess mid thirties.

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Speaker 2: What is that? I guess maybe I'm still I'm.

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Speaker 1: Still gonna call myself a young adult, an older young adult,

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Speaker 1: an older young adult. And so I really think a

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Speaker 1: lot of this comes down to kind of the things

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Speaker 1: I said earlier, What are the issues?

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Speaker 2: What do those mean to you?

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Speaker 1: Because if we break this down, I'm not just having

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Speaker 1: the conversation around can a Democrat be married to a Republican?

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be that harshly cut. We could

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Speaker 1: have different views on something, we can align with the

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Speaker 1: same political party, or like, maybe you don't align with

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Speaker 1: any political party, but your views on certain issues are different.

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Speaker 1: And so there are some issues that you could say,

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Speaker 1: no that issue. If somebody disagrees with me on that,

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Speaker 1: that is a core part of who I am, and

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Speaker 1: I would say there are some things for me that

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Nope, that's a harsh line. And there are

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Speaker 1: these other issues that I could say. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't see myself ever changing my mind about that, but

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Speaker 1: you know, anything could happen. But I can also sit

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Speaker 1: with more of the tension of we don't agree on that.

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Speaker 1: I can agree to disagree on that and maintain safety

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Speaker 1: in a relationship and still feel like I'm able to

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Speaker 1: be seen, heard and understood in that area. But in

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Speaker 1: this area, no, don't. I don't think I can do that,

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Speaker 1: And so it depends. My whole point in kind of

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Speaker 1: talking through that is for people to be more curious

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Speaker 1: in this space. I mean, if you are like on

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Speaker 1: one side of the spectrum and somebody on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the spectrum, I see that. But let's make

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Speaker 1: sure that people are on the other side of the

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Speaker 1: spectrum before we assume they are. And I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of times we are assuming that people are and

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Speaker 1: we assume that we have to be really polarized too,

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Speaker 1: and we don't. So there's a lot of quiggle room here.

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Speaker 1: So again my answer yes, no. And maybe now when

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Speaker 1: this comes to a therapist and their clients, I think

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Speaker 1: this gets really muddy as well. This whole thing is

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Speaker 1: muddy human beings. We're muddy, we're complicated. Generally speaking, this

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Speaker 1: would be this would fall into some self disclosure kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. I will say it is a skill of

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Speaker 1: a therapist that you learn and develop and you get

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Speaker 1: better at of sitting with the discomfort of working through

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Speaker 1: something that doesn't align with you. And the beauty and

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Speaker 1: all of that is that it has allowed way more

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Speaker 1: space for me to have relationships in my everyday life

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Speaker 1: with people that don't align in every single same way

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Speaker 1: that I am. It has shown me that people can

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Speaker 1: be so many different ways and so many different things,

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Speaker 1: and have so many different beliefs and still be good, loving, wonderful.

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Speaker 2: Worthy, valuable people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think I knew that before I was

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Speaker 1: a therapist, but you just get a deeper sense of

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Speaker 1: that seeing all kinds of different people every single day

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Speaker 1: because as a therapist, there's no way I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess you could set it up this way, but I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't suggest you being a therapist in that if that's

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Speaker 1: what you're doing. But there's no way that every client

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Speaker 1: you're going to have is going to align.

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Speaker 2: With every view that you have of the world and

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Speaker 2: what's right for you. And so I'm going to back

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Speaker 2: up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: This kind of falls into the self discosas closure space,

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Speaker 1: and generally speaking, self disclosures should be given when I'm

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Speaker 1: sharing something about myself.

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Speaker 2: If I'm going to share a political.

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Speaker 1: Belief or a view on something with the client, I

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Speaker 1: have to make sure that it's relevant for me to

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Speaker 1: share that right, and I have to make sure that

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Speaker 1: I am not sharing some kind of open wounding of mine,

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Speaker 1: that what I'm sharing I don't actually need to do

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Speaker 1: my own therapeutic workaround it is something that has resolved.

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Speaker 2: No open wounds there.

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Speaker 1: So, in regards to our political beliefs or affiliations, if

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Speaker 1: we choose to share or if a client asks, we

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Speaker 1: in the same way of any other kind of self disclosure,

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Speaker 1: should consider why we would be doing that, why would

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Speaker 1: be going forward with sharing that, And if a client

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Speaker 1: is asking, it's important to wonder really what they would

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Speaker 1: get out of our sharing. Will it help the client

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Speaker 1: feel safer, closer, and more supported. Could it possibly be

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Speaker 1: an unconscious attempt in creating some kind of toxicity in

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Speaker 1: their relationship or are they looking for some confirmation bias?

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Speaker 1: Or is this a function of a client's codependency or

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Speaker 1: inability to create flexibility in relationships, or is it an

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Speaker 1: attempt to be validated on issues that they are processing

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Speaker 1: and really need to process on their own and come

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Speaker 1: to terms with on their own. So there's so many

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Speaker 1: moving parts with that. I do find it fair that

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Speaker 1: a client would be curious of our value system, and

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Speaker 1: in that regard, it would be fairly easy to gain

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Speaker 1: a little bit of access into our values from a

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Speaker 1: large scale by like in their p offices. I mean

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Speaker 1: by like the books that are on our shelves, or

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Speaker 1: the artworks that's on the wall, or just even the

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Speaker 1: type of decor. There's so many cues you can pick

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Speaker 1: up on that you can start to understand a little

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Speaker 1: bit of how we operate as human beings. I was

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Speaker 1: also reading something recently which suggested including a statement of

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Speaker 1: openness in either intake paperwork or something in the lobby

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Speaker 1: written that basically states regardless of the clinician's own belief systems.

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Speaker 1: We're open and accepting of what our clients bring in

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Speaker 1: for themselves. And I really think that's the most important

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Speaker 1: part here, That clients feel safe, they feel encouraged to

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Speaker 1: be themselves, versus they feel encouraged to please us, that

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Speaker 1: their beliefs can be spoken freely and processed for them,

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Speaker 1: not for us. Clients will seek our approval, but they

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Speaker 1: don't need our approval. That's not what we're here to

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Speaker 1: do is to approve of them. It's to help them

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Speaker 1: become more accepting and loving of themselves in the way

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Speaker 1: that they were created to be. And when feelings of

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Speaker 1: discomfort do come up for our clients not knowing where

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Speaker 1: we stand, we can talk about the underlying issues there

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Speaker 1: rather than just the desire to fill in that gap,

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Speaker 1: that missing information, that desire to know. And it's my

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Speaker 1: personal belief. This isn't like a rule of therapy. This

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Speaker 1: isn't written in any space special book, But I really

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Speaker 1: do believe that part of being a therapist, part of

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Speaker 1: our job, a job requirement almost is sitting with a

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Speaker 1: discomfort that some things are going to be hard for

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Speaker 1: us to hear that is just baseline. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like part of the admission of being a therapist.

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Speaker 2: Some things are gonna be hard to hear.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna be hard for to hear for many different reasons.

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Speaker 1: And one reason might be because you don't align with it,

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Speaker 1: because you disagree, because it goes against something that works

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Speaker 1: really well in your life. And we have to use

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Speaker 1: clinical judgment when that is just our discomfort because somebody

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Speaker 1: disagrees with our own parts of our story, or when

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Speaker 1: something actually is unsafe and we kind of intervened, which

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Speaker 1: usually has nothing to do with their political views. It's

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Speaker 1: just yeah, part of the job is to sit with

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Speaker 1: that discomfort. And I think, like I said earlier, it

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Speaker 1: has brought more awareness and has actually helped my life

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Speaker 1: and has helped me enriched my life with the relationshi

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Speaker 1: ships and the types of relationships and the types of

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Speaker 1: people that I surround myself with. I think that has

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Speaker 1: allowed more space for me to enjoy all different kinds

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Speaker 1: of people and.

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Speaker 2: Actually learn a lot about myself as well.

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Speaker 1: And life is not about finding a space where you

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Speaker 1: agree with people all the time, and doing therapy is

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Speaker 1: not about finding a therapist or working with clients who you.

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Speaker 2: Just agree with all the time.

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Speaker 1: It's messy, and I think that gets lost in translation

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Speaker 1: a lot. For therapists, it's not really so much how

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Speaker 1: much we know that makes us good at our job.

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Speaker 1: It's how much we're able to help our clients know.

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Speaker 1: And when we become the educator on who somebody should

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Speaker 1: be and what they should believe, it's time for a

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Speaker 1: reality check. And it's hard because people want to hand

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Speaker 1: us that role and it feels very good for our egos,

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Speaker 1: and flated ego can feel very good for a period

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Speaker 1: of time, and especially in the beginning of this type

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Speaker 1: of work, and depending on where you are really in

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Speaker 1: your life, that can be very tempting. But my personal

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Speaker 1: beliefs don't have to invalidate anyone else's and vice versa.

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Speaker 1: And if there is a space or a point in

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Speaker 1: which that does happen or come up, we can use

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Speaker 1: our clinical judgment to decide whether.

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Speaker 2: We're a good fit to work with that client or not.

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Speaker 1: But I would say, also, as I kind of wrap

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Speaker 1: this up, therapists in this space, because it is so

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Speaker 1: hard sometimes, especially when you're starting to do this, it's

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Speaker 1: really helpful to have your own therapist to process some

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Speaker 1: of that stuff out, or seek a lot of good

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Speaker 1: supervision on what's it like for you or what comes

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Speaker 1: up for you, or how does your work change, or

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Speaker 1: how do you stay committed to the client when those

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Speaker 1: opposing beliefs come up that might be really hard for

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Speaker 1: you to hear. I very much suggest that has been

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Speaker 1: very very helpful for me, And I think being a

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Speaker 1: client teaches you a lot about the type of therapists

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Speaker 1: you do want to be and you don't want to be.

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Speaker 1: And so when you find those spaces that feel really safe,

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Speaker 1: and that is regardless if your therapist has the same

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Speaker 1: beliefs as you, it shows you kind of what you

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Speaker 1: want to.

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Speaker 2: Give to your clients.

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Speaker 1: And if you have a space where you don't get that,

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Speaker 1: it does the same thing in a different way.

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Speaker 2: So I hope this was helpful.

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Speaker 1: I think that we could turn the we could turn

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Speaker 1: both of these into whole episodes, and maybe I'll have

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Speaker 1: some therapists on here to talk about their thoughts and

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Speaker 1: feelings about this, especially because it is so timely. We're

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Speaker 1: about to really be moving through that as November gets nearer,

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Speaker 1: its October.

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Speaker 2: That's wild.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how we got here, but that could

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Speaker 1: be something that could be really helpful. And if you

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Speaker 1: guys have any more information or stories or feedback or

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Speaker 1: anything around this topic, I'd love to share it with

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Speaker 1: our listeners as well, So feel free to share that

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Speaker 1: with me Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can follow me at kat van Buren and at

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy Podcast on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Until Monday, I hope you guys have the day you

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Speaker 2: need to have people

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Speaker 1: To take under