1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Hello, Chip, Hello here. That's really lovely today. 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 2: You know what's funny is I have aw This is 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 2: like bad hair. Wow. 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel like your bad hair is your best hair. 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: I know. That's why I got to keep it nice 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 2: and short, because it's when the sides are awful after 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: bad hair. 8 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, gets a little mushroomy for you. How do you 9 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: think I look. 10 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: Well, we've been chatting for a minute, and your face 11 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: is less red. 12 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Oh that is interesting. So I told Chip before we recorded, 13 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: I may look a little crazy. When we got on 14 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: the recording and we first got on, he was like, 15 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: oh whoa, oh. 16 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: Yeah right, red like sunburn red. 17 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like a sunburn. I had two laser 18 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: treatments today. I did the bb L laser and the 19 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: moxy right after. And I'm going to post my documentation 20 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: of this process once I kind of get through it. 21 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: Because so I'm at this weird age right like I 22 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 1: just turned forty three, and as a girl, you're kind 23 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: of in the place where you're like, I've been doing botox. 24 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: I've been doing all this stuff. And then I started 25 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: to realize, like I didn't like the way it was 26 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: looking anymore. And I'm also like almost craving more natural now, 27 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: Like the more makeup you do, the more shit you do, 28 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: almost makes you look worse as you get older, you know. 29 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: And so I'm in this weird in between being like 30 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: definitely older and being young to where I'm trying to 31 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: figure out my new process, I guess. So I had 32 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: heard a lot about these two lasers, and I went 33 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: in to see these girls just to try them because 34 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, well I do want to work on 35 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: my skin. So basically what I'm working on with this 36 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: is sun spots, evening out skin tone, fine lines, and wrinkles. 37 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm just gonna see. I read, you know, 38 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: I read mixed views. Some people are like doing lasers 39 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: is a waste of time, and then some people swear 40 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: by them. So I have to just try everything myself 41 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: to figure out how I feel about it. So I'll 42 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: keep you guys posted. But it's been interesting. Aging is weird, 43 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: Like we kind of talk about this when you're, you know, 44 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: coming up on fifty, but like, have you noticed like 45 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: each year that passes, I feel like I'm having all 46 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: these new awarenesses and I'm stepping into like a new 47 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: version of myself. Slowly every year. Do you feel like 48 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: that at all? Or am I just like going a 49 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: little bit. 50 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: I feel like the pressure for aging for women is 51 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 2: very different than men, true, I mean in the gay community, 52 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 2: it's probably more similar to women. There are changes that 53 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 2: I'm going through that I recognize, but I'm fighting very 54 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: hard to like continue to feel like a twenty year old, 55 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: you know, like yeah, just mentally. 56 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: That's so interesting because I think I'm doing the opposite 57 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: right right. I'm like, there, you couldn't pay me to 58 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: go back to my twenties. And I'm also trying I 59 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: mean physically, of course, I see, you know. I was 60 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: on a shoot with Tucker Wetmore this week, and like 61 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: he's just so adorable. I just love him so much. 62 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: But he's young, you know, and so all the p 63 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: in the video with him, we're all young. And I'm 64 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: looking at these kids and I'm like, they're all gorgeous, 65 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: Like yeah, they're just kight. Their bodies are tight, like 66 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: they look so good. And I just truly feel because 67 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: like even his management team everything, I'm the old person 68 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: in this crew, like, you know, everyone's younger, and so 69 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: it's just really interesting because I have been in the 70 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: other position for so many years, and now I'm like, oh, 71 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: I'm getting to be the one that's been around the 72 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: long time, and like that's older than everyone else, which 73 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: obviously I know I'm not old, but like just being 74 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: in that company, I kind of felt like I'm the 75 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: old fart here, Like I don't go out after you know, 76 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: just like. 77 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: We're like, who's that lady, Yeah, ma'am, yeah, ma'am, yes, ma'am. Yeah. 78 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: I mean Tucker is very much respectful like that to me, 79 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my god, I don't know that 80 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: he does that, but yeah, it's basically like, let me 81 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: take care of the lady over here. But anyway, I 82 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: just find even watching them though, I'm like, I love 83 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: how excited they are. I love being around that energy. 84 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: It's so lovely with work. And also, you couldn't pay 85 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: me to go back, Like I so the lessons that 86 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: I've learned since being in that period in my life, 87 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: you couldn't pay me to go through them again. Like right, 88 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: It's just I know what they have ahead of them maybe, 89 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: and so I'm like just sitting back kind of observing 90 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: right from a place of like how fun with that guys? 91 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: So there's that like, I don't know what you're talking 92 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: about with this, like you wanted to be in your 93 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: twenties again. I'm like, what, Well, it's. 94 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 2: Not that I want to be in my twenties, it's 95 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: that I don't want to feel old. So I mean, 96 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: i'll give you an example. I went and saw cold 97 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 2: Play the other night, and the show was amazing, But 98 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 2: it's a million degrees in Nashville right now, and you 99 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: put eighty thousand people in a stadium or however many 100 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: people it is. 101 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: Oh, was it at Nissan. 102 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: It was at Nissan, so it's outside and you've just 103 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: got more like bodies that are moving and dancing and 104 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: screaming that just make it even hotter. And it was like, ooh, 105 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: there was like I'm sure some people did, but there 106 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 2: was like occasionally there was like a little bit of 107 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 2: a breeze, but like for the most part, there was 108 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: not a breeze at all. And then I went to 109 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: the after party, good gush, and I didn't really have 110 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: many drinks the whole time, but it was just like 111 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: I was like out late doing things that like I 112 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: did all the time when I was in my twenties 113 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: of course, and thirties and the next day I wasn't hungover, 114 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: I was just exbeded. Yeah, I was like, I can't mind. 115 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: I just don't recover in the same way. And so 116 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: I recognize those things. So I think I probably have 117 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: to make some decisions moving forward based on that information, 118 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: where it's like I can still go to the show, 119 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: but I don't need to be at the after party. No. 120 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: If I start to see my clock and it's eleven 121 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: and I'm out a panic, I'm like, cause it's like 122 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to be out past, Like I don't 123 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: want to be not in bed by the latest midnight, 124 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: you know, Like I'm getting in bed at like nine nowadays, 125 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: Like I just maybe i'll watch a show. It's like 126 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to bed, but like I don't know, I 127 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: really value sleep. My body can't bounce back like you 128 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: I said, like I would have been down for like 129 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: two or three days from that. It feels like it is. 130 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: I mean, it's the recovery is real, you know, It's 131 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 2: it is not easy. So there are those things, and 132 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: then you know, looking at my skin and the looseness 133 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: and the wrinkles and all those things. But I'm just 134 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 2: I try to ignore it too, I mean not in 135 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: an healthy way. Like if I see a spot that 136 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: I'm like concerned about, I'm. 137 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: Like, you try not to hate on yourself for it, 138 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: I think is what you're Yeah, And I think that's 139 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: what I'm saying about. Like I haven't I've been trying 140 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: to not do botox anymore, and I don't know that 141 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: I'll go back to it or not go back to it. 142 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: I haven't made my decision, but I wanted everything that 143 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: I had to be like out of my face before 144 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: I made a decision again. And so I have been 145 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: doing that and it's like my forehead moves. This is 146 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: going to sound crazy to sell me O, I'm sure, 147 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: but like I think a lot of people might relate 148 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: to my forehead moves now. And I have like wrinkles, 149 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, And at first I freaked out about that, 150 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: which made me be really question myself. And because now 151 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: I'm looking at my face and I'm like, I actually 152 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: just look normal, Like this is what we're supposed to live, right, 153 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: And I think it's great to, you know, take care 154 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: of yourself. And that's why I wanted to do this 155 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: laser because I do have some sun damage that's really 156 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: starting to show more, and so I want to get 157 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: ahead of that because I'm a makeup artist, Like I 158 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: know what that looks like as you just let it 159 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: go on. But at the same time, I do want 160 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: to be kinder to myself and like try to be 161 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: in more acceptance of like I've lived some life and 162 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: like there's a lot that comes with aging that's beautiful too, 163 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: and so I don't want to just be like this 164 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: person that's feeling less than or hating on myself. Even 165 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: trying to keep up with the Jones is like what 166 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: I think our culture kind of like makes us feel 167 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: like we have to do. Like I do feel like 168 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: there should be some beauty in this process that I'm 169 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: really trying to embrace. So anyway, I'll keep you guys 170 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: posted on the laser. But I told you this like 171 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: connection between this topic and our topic that we're going 172 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: to talk about today, and I actually think they do 173 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: tie in together in some weird way. But as a 174 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: part of this like aging that I'm talking about, do 175 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: you think you go through experiences in life? And like 176 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: my podcast on Wednesday was with John Stilim Paris, and 177 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: he wrote this book called The Magic and the tragic, 178 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: and he really is trying to reframe the conversation about grief, 179 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: and one of the main things he says is like, 180 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people try to show up 181 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: in this life and pretend that they're not going to 182 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: go through a period of grief, and like there's not 183 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: one person on this planet that is going to escape 184 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: the grief process. Like you don't have to do grieving 185 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: in a way that you know, you can stuff it 186 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: or whatever, but like you're gonna go through things that hurt. 187 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: That's part of life. And right, I think if you 188 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: believe anything spiritual, you probably have some sort of insight 189 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: into like the whys of what that happens. And I 190 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: always try to look at it as like what is 191 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: this here to teach me? Like how can I grow 192 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: even through the pain? And we talked about this on Wednesday, 193 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: But like some of the most painful experiences of my life. 194 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: As much as I fucking hate when people say, like 195 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: you'll look back and be grateful for this, I do 196 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: because of what the process brought me to within myself, 197 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: you know, And I couldn't have gotten there. Like I 198 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: don't think we grow without pain. I really don't yeah, 199 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: why would you, like, if life's going great, why are 200 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: you going to do anything to change it? 201 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: Well? And it's funny because if you think about the verse, 202 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: when you're trying to avoid grief, how that stunts your growth? 203 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: It totally does? 204 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 2: You know, It's like you're choosing to not grow by 205 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: you know, trying to avoid grief. 206 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: Right, Like when you see the older people that you 207 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: feel are really emotionally immature, that's probably what it is. 208 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: Like we're trying to avoid the hard feelings, but nobody 209 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: likes to do it right, Like it's not like you go, oh, 210 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: you know, what I want to do today is go 211 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: through something really hard, So I have to go through 212 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: process Like it's not fun, So of course we want 213 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: to avoid it. I think that's like a natural human thing. 214 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: But you and I were talking before the podcast of 215 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: just like how do we reframe our mindset around grief 216 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: and try to look at the beautiful things that can 217 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: come from that process us or the gift of grief, 218 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: and also really removing the shame that comes around, like 219 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: how long that process can take or even like the 220 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: lifelong journey that it can be. I know we had 221 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: said maybe we should share some of our personal journey 222 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: and experiences with grief, and like what that's taught us? 223 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: Do you want to stay well? 224 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because it's obviously you can grieve 225 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: grief effects or as a result, I guess, or is 226 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: a byproduct of a lot of things. Like the most 227 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: obvious is a breakup or a death or a loved one. 228 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 2: But we're talking about like our youth, like grieving the 229 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 2: loss of that, or the loss of a job, or 230 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 2: the loss of a friendship, the loss of a pet. 231 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: And I've experienced a lot of grief in my life. 232 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 2: I mean I lost my best friend Whise in third grade, 233 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: and you know, as a third grader, it's like you 234 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 2: really I had pneumonia at the time, and I thought 235 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 2: I was going to die next Like I didn't understand death. Really, 236 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: I didn't understand grief. My best friend his name was Evan, 237 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: and there's not a day that goes by that I 238 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: don't think about him. And I've got a picture of 239 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 2: him in my house, you know, And it's like I 240 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 2: was in third grade, I was a kid, but I'll 241 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: never forget him. And I was sick at home with 242 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: pneumonia and it was my He died on my sister's 243 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: birthday and she was having a slumber party and this 244 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: girl named Beth was there who had never met Evan, 245 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: and she went through a whole box of tissues, just 246 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 2: bawling her eyes out, and me, I didn't know how 247 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: to experience it. And so it's funny like looking back 248 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: on it, like the freedom that she felt to breathe 249 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 2: in front of us, where I didn't know what to do. 250 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 2: You know, that's really interests that, like everyone's got it 251 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: sort of a different approach or a relationship with grief 252 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 2: because I'm like the sort of an ultra positive person 253 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 2: I try to. I mean, it's probably like meet without 254 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: me realizing it, and as I'm saying it, I'm opening 255 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: myself up to it. Like I think I tried to 256 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: push it down by by finding the beauty in it 257 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: rather than just like sitting in the darkness of it, 258 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 2: because I'm not comfortable in that space. But like I 259 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 2: you know, at my grandmother's wedding, she wedding funeral, My 260 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: grandmother was my best friend growing up, you know, like 261 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: I was so close to her and I was like 262 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: all of our grand all of her grandchildren will tell 263 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: you that I was her favorite. I'm proudly that, and 264 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: I spoke at her funeral like I was not going 265 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: to allow my grief to keep me from letting that 266 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: room know how important she was to me. 267 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 268 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I still have what I wrote, like, and I've 269 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: read through it since, and I can't believe I was 270 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: able to get up and say that many words, you know. 271 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: But I think my strength and my love for her 272 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 2: allowed me to do that. But I also don't know 273 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: that I've ever properly grieved her death in the way 274 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 2: that like it seems necessary for someone that important in 275 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 2: your life, and you know, I don't know where that 276 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 2: comes from. Like it's so there's some the programming for 277 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: my family. I like never saw my dad crying when 278 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: I was you know, he was like a tough man, like. 279 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,239 Speaker 1: In general, I think, y'ah, I taught. 280 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: That, Yeah, even with like breakups, like I also never 281 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 2: want a burden in anybody, you know, Like that is 282 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: the last thing I want to do is to be 283 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: a burden to anyone. I want to be helpful and 284 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 2: bring joy. And so I think part of me has 285 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: turned off that grieving knob. But I have also learned 286 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: that as I've gotten older in life. Even in like 287 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: short relationships, like I have a hard time letting them 288 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,599 Speaker 2: just end because I don't know if it's the avoidance 289 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: of grief or me trying to like smooth it over 290 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 2: and make it really easy for the other person, or 291 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: trying to find the good in the person. When red 292 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: flags present themselves, I often don't want to see them, 293 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 2: and so then after it's over, I don't know that 294 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: I would recognize it as grief, but I think about 295 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 2: it for much longer than I need to, And I 296 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: don't know necessarily know that I talk about it like 297 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: I shure ye, but I do think about it. So 298 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 2: maybe that is my version of grief. And I think 299 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: it probably has a lot just to do with the 300 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: household that I grew up in, you know, Yeah, don't 301 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 2: be a cry baby. I know those sorts of things. 302 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: And it's like I was a very very sensitive kid. 303 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: Like the first time I went hunting, I killed two 304 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: squirrels with the gun I'd been given for Christmas. Yeah, 305 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: and I was so proud of myself. This is a 306 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: little morbid, but like my dad cut the tails off 307 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: and like gave me the tails, Like I was a 308 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 2: Davy Crockett or some shit, and my parents are like 309 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: where they were trying to find it, and I was 310 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: up in my room petting the tails, balling my eyes 311 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: out and vowed to never go hunting again. Like that 312 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: was the kind of kid I was, And if I 313 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: ever lied to my mom or my dad like an 314 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: hour later, I would be like bawling and telling them 315 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 2: the truth. And I was really sensitive and not afraid 316 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 2: to cry. Yeah, But I feel like the older I've gotten, 317 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 2: I've hardened, and society has said that's not what you're 318 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 2: supposed to do. 319 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: And I don't know that you've hardened. I think you've 320 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: trained yourself not to like allow that to come out 321 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: or definitely not in public to Christ. 322 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 2: But I think I can't remember the last time I 323 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 2: had a really good cry, like yeah, and I understand 324 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 2: the importance of it, like, and I would like to 325 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: think that I'm not ashamed of it. I just somewhere 326 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 2: I like closed that box, yes, And I mean that 327 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: is it is a shame lock that is on it, 328 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, even just having this conversation, it's like 329 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: I should say out loud to give myself the permission 330 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: to like feel those hard feelings whenever I need to, 331 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: because they don't escape. 332 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: Like you put them into something else. 333 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: There's something Yeah, it's something else. And and I think 334 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 2: that there's also something really beautiful about the idea of 335 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 2: like owning your grief and taking it and turning it 336 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 2: into something else. But you have to recognize it first. Yeah, yeah, 337 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: you have to write, you have to sit with it 338 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: and recognize it first. And I find this conversation to 339 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: be really interesting because otherwise I don't think I would 340 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 2: have ever thought about it. 341 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 342 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: Well, so I'm hoping that opens the door for some 343 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 2: other people to sort of think about it. 344 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: I'm actually really glad that you're telling exactly what it 345 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: looks like for you, because you said one thing to 346 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: you where you were like, you know, in my family, 347 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: we said just be strong. And what's so interesting to 348 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: me about that statement is I actually believe that people 349 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: who allow themselves to feel the hard feelings are the strongest. 350 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 2: The strongest. 351 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we have somehow gotten that mixed up in 352 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: our society where we think that you not feeling or 353 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: not looking weak or vulnerable, that's strong. That's not strong. 354 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: That's not strong. To me, truly, that is one of 355 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: the things as I've gotten older, when I see that 356 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: in a person, I don't view that as strong. To me, 357 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: If anything, it looks more weak. What is really strong 358 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: is the people who go face their shit like that 359 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: is hard work. It is allowing yourself to go to 360 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: the depths like you're talking about, like allowing yourself to 361 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: feel the hard feelings, to go to the deep places, 362 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: to cry, to be angry, to be an acceptance of that. 363 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: That is so much strength. Like what I've observed so 364 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,239 Speaker 1: many people in all the work that I've done, and 365 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: like I've done a lot of group therapy too, and 366 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: like witnessing someone doing that process, I will have the 367 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: most respect for those people that I walked through those 368 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: journeys with for the rest of my life because like, 369 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: to me, I'm like, that is a strong ass person. Yeah, 370 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: the person who can meet themselves in the darkest places. 371 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: That is strong and to not turn into an asshole 372 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: because you go through something hard like, those are the 373 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: strong people. But the wats who come out kinder or 374 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: that like use it as a growth opportunity or whatever, Like, 375 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: I have more respect for that than for anyone that 376 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: just like diminishes the feelings and pretends like they're not there. 377 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? 378 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I mean I struggle with hard conversations. I 379 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 2: worry and ponder and create scenarios in my mind when 380 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 2: I have to have a hard conversation and I work 381 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: really hard to figure out how to soften the conversation. 382 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 2: But every time I have a hard conversation, it's like, 383 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: I pre grieve the result and I but the freedom 384 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: that you feel after you've just done it is unbelievable. 385 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 2: So it's not the same thing as like recognizing grief 386 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 2: and like really dealing and like digging in and dealing 387 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 2: with it. But I do think it's a It is 388 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: a proof that going to dark places and doing hard 389 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 2: things in the moment sucks to have to do it. 390 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 2: But what the way that it sets you free afterwards 391 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: is the growth. And I think I think if you 392 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: can think of grieving in that way and allowing that 393 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 2: grief to sort of drown you for a minute, on 394 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 2: the other side of that is the knowledge that you 395 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: know that moment is supposed to bring to you. 396 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: You just said that so perfectly like that that is 397 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: exactly what it is, because I probably the way I 398 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: just said it, it was like really harsh. I don't mean 399 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: it like, oh, you fucking weak ass person. 400 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: No, I think they're a really good example. I think 401 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 2: I think that made perfect sense. 402 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: But I also think that a lot of times we 403 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: don't know how to grieve like that is. That's a 404 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: thing that I do like about this book is that 405 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: he really kind of talks about some of the things 406 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: you can do and the beauty you can find. And 407 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: I told him on the podcast, like, if you guys 408 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: haven't listened, I'll kind of just repeat the story, but like, 409 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: definitely go listen, because I found this to be very 410 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: cathartic as well. But it was like, thinking through the 411 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: times where I've grieved, one of the main things that 412 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: pops to my head is like that life just slows down, right, 413 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: because then all of a sudden, when you go through 414 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: something hard, you look at the shit that you worry 415 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: about every day and you're like, why is that the 416 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: thing that drives me crazy every day? It doesn't matter, 417 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, like everything just becomes less in our day 418 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: to day lives because that really hard thing has really 419 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: like broken you open to realize none of that stuff 420 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: really matters. And I told him, I'm like, my life 421 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: just slows down. And it's like when I go outside, 422 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: even like if I go sit on my front porch 423 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: or something. I remember the last time I was in 424 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: a really dark place, I was like, my neighbors probably 425 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: think I'm crazy because I didn't have a backyard set 426 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: up at all, and so I would sit on this 427 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: bench in my front yard and just watch people walk by. 428 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: But I like needed to be out of my house, 429 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: but I didn't really want to be around people or 430 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: go anywhere, you know, And I just was like sitting 431 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: there and I would notice the wind blowing through the leaves, 432 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: or the butterfly that landed on the plant in front 433 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: of me, or just like the noises of the birds, 434 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: Like everything just feels more visceral. I feel like like 435 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: in those periods of time, and when I would come 436 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: out of it, it was almost like I would crave 437 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: that connection with nature then again, or like the music 438 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: I had been listening to, it's like you just start 439 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: to notice. It's like your noticer gets turned way up right, 440 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: and that actually is beautiful, Like that's a beautiful part 441 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: of the human experience to me, to really realize how 442 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: much we're all connected. And I don't know that I 443 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: would ever have had those moments if I hadn't gone 444 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: through the hard times to give me that, Like, yo, 445 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: you need to stop for a second. And like the 446 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: shit that I would be worrying about for me to go, 447 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: I don't care at all about that right now, Like 448 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: that just doesn't matter at all, knowing that. 449 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 2: We are just a speck of dust on this big, 450 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 2: huge universe. Yeah, it really is a reminder, and I 451 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 2: think it's a beautiful part of grief because it reminds 452 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: us that we're small and that these problems that we 453 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: think are so big aren't as big as they all are. 454 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 2: And what is important is that the people that are 455 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 2: around you that you love, and the things that you love, 456 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: and the beauty that like this is all around us, 457 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 2: those things are what's really important. And it does give 458 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 2: you time to pause. But you know, it's I can 459 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: only speak from my experience because I don't know what 460 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 2: it feels like for anyone else to grieve. But like 461 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 2: I feel like societally and the way that like corporate 462 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 2: America approaches it, like they're just like get back on 463 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 2: the horse, like we got shoes to sell. Yeah, we've 464 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 2: got shit that needs to get done. And the funny 465 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 2: thing is is like those few days that you are 466 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 2: out like that, shit still gets done. It's getting done 467 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 2: without you. Well yeah, but we are trained to believe 468 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 2: that the world is going to stop spending if we 469 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 2: don't do what we're supposed to do every day. So 470 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 2: I think culturally we all could use just a reset 471 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 2: and a reframe on the grace that we give ourselves 472 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 2: and the grace that we give others when they're going 473 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 2: through a really hard time. 474 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: Well, because we do have this connection of productivity to 475 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: worth right, and so if we stop or we can't 476 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: function like we normally are, then all of a sudden, 477 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: I think it's like we start to question who am I? 478 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: Without this stuff? And so that's a really interesting connection 479 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: to be faced with. But then it also really makes 480 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: you think, like, am I only the person that goes 481 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: to work every day? Is that the whole makeup of 482 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: who I am? 483 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 2: No? 484 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: It's not. So why wouldn't we allow ourselves the space 485 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: to not be okay or not be able to produce 486 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: at that same rate? 487 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: You know? 488 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: Like I remember one of our friends had a mom. 489 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: His mom passed away a couple of years ago, and 490 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: it was devastating. She died in a car wreck, and 491 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: she was his best friend. They talked every day. I mean, 492 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: you and I were talking about this a little bit, 493 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: and I remember him talking about like getting work calls 494 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: during that time, and he was like, I know I 495 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: need to care, but I really can't make myself care 496 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: right now. Like it's really difficult for me to want 497 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: to show up and do this thing at work because 498 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: all I can think about is like, why does this 499 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: even matter? Like my best friend just died, my mom 500 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: just died, you know, Like that's what matters to me. 501 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: And I'm just trying to get out of bed every 502 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: day much less like this work process, like it just 503 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: doesn't seem important, and truthfully, it probably wasn't at the time. 504 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: Right. 505 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: Of course, we all have responsibilities, we have to pay 506 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: bills all the things. But it's like it is interesting 507 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: the guilt that we would put on ourselves. I was 508 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: telling another story about another friend we've had go through 509 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: a breakup and watching her go through the process of 510 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: like shaming herself to be over it, you know, and like, 511 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: I know I've done that to myself so many times, 512 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: and fortunately for me, my body doesn't work that way. 513 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: Like I'm too much of a feeler and I'm just 514 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: gonna be forced back into feeling even if I don't 515 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: want to be. But like the shame that comes with 516 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: it sometimes of like why am I not over this yet? 517 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: Like we're so mean to ourselves and that's not how 518 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: grief works. Like you were talking about, grief isn't linear. 519 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: It's like it's very much that quirkscrew process. What were 520 00:24:58,760 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: you talking about? 521 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 2: Was that? I mean when we started talking about the topic, 522 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 2: I'd just seen this today. It was Robin William's son 523 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 2: posted a few days ago and it got picked up 524 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: on a site that I follow because it was the end. 525 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 2: It would have been three days ago, it would have 526 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 2: been Robin William's seventy fourth birthday, and I had read 527 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 2: this and it struck me. When you sent me the topics, 528 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: I'll just read it. He posted today would have been 529 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 2: my dad's seventy fourth birthday. Every year, the season arrives 530 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 2: with gravity. In just sixty days, we passed through Father's Day, 531 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 2: his birthday, and the anniversary of his death. It's a 532 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 2: tender and complicated stretch of time, one that asks a 533 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 2: lot of the heart. For me. Grief isn't linear. I 534 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: think it's so the key part there is the for 535 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: me part. For me, grief isn't linear. It loops and 536 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 2: it echoes, it softens, then crescendos. But alongside it lives 537 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 2: a legacy, the kind built not from fame or recognition, 538 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: but from generosity and relentless kindness. My father lived to 539 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 2: make people feel seen. He gave permission to feel deeply 540 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: into laugh through the pain in his absence. That mission continues. 541 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 2: So today I hold close the idea that the best 542 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 2: way to honor those we love is to live with 543 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 2: the values they stood for, to lead with service and compassion, 544 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 2: to lift others when they're down, and to find the 545 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 2: paths are like even in the dark corners. To anyone 546 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 2: carrying loss right now, you are not alone. You are 547 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: part of a passage of love and connection that never 548 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 2: really ends. Happy birthday, Dad, Love you forever. Clearly he's 549 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 2: gone through some he's learned a lot from his grief, 550 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 2: but he's also not willing to let it go. And 551 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 2: I think the important thing to remember there is letting 552 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 2: it go is also letting that string of love that 553 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 2: still exists. For his father, it's like cutting it. It 554 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 2: is the grief is what connects them now, the memories, 555 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 2: the sadness that he's not there. Like, I'm still really 556 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 2: fortunate to have both of my parents, but like I 557 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 2: don't want to ever stop missing them when they're gone. 558 00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: You know, Like that sounds like a really dark day. Yeah, 559 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 2: we all need to give ourselves a little bit more grace. 560 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: And I also think too, it's we need to look 561 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 2: at our friends and the ones that we love and 562 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 2: give them that space to grieve too, and know that 563 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 2: there it's not gonna it's never gonna end for them either. 564 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: So to acknowledge it, to allow it to be a process. 565 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: Too well, to keep those people alive in their minds too. 566 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 2: You know, It's like it doesn't have to be like 567 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 2: every day being like how are you today, they're like 568 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 2: putting them in a dark mood. You can just be 569 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 2: like I saw this, It made me think of your 570 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 2: mom or your dad or whatever, and like, don't make 571 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 2: it a shameful thing that someone has passed on in 572 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 2: their life, you know. Yeah, which is hard because we're 573 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 2: we are trained to be these non emotional robots. 574 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing, right, Nobody knows what 575 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: to say and I think that's one of the main 576 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: things that most people who go through something really hard, 577 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: like a death or it's just something tragic, one thing 578 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: I think they would say in common is like people 579 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: get uncomfortable and don't know what to say, and you know, 580 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: we do the thing where we're like, she's in a 581 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: better place or whatever, and that it's just such bullshit, 582 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: right because it's like not helpful. And so a lot 583 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: of times, like one of the things that I've done 584 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: when I'm around people who I know are going through 585 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: something hard that they've said thank you for later is 586 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: asking them what it feels like or how they are 587 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: or what can I say. I don't are just saying 588 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what to say to you. 589 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what to say, dude. I this 590 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 2: reminds me in fifth grade. 591 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: Am I dude? 592 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 593 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I was just. 594 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 2: This is just occurring to me. When I was in 595 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: fifth grade, a girl named Jennifer in my class, her 596 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: father died on Christmas. He was a fisherman and died 597 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 2: in this car. And when I went back to school, 598 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 2: my grandmother had died earlier that year. I said to her, 599 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. I know how you feel. And she 600 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,719 Speaker 2: looked at me and she said, you have no fucking 601 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: idea how I feel. And it was the wrong thing 602 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 2: to say, because I didn't know how she felt. I 603 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: was equating the same thing, but I hadn't lost my dad. 604 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 2: I didn't know how she felt. 605 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: Right. 606 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 2: So it's moments like that too that probably you don't 607 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: want me not to know what to say. I don't 608 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: want to say the wrong thing, you know, it's and 609 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: then that is something that is ingrained in me. But 610 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 2: I the older I've gotten, the more like, you know, 611 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: you have to become comfortable with the idea of death, 612 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 2: because it's going to happen to all of us. I 613 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 2: lost a friend a couple of years ago to breast cancer, 614 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: and I was sitting at dinner with some friends when 615 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: I got the text that she had passed. 616 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: I was one of those friends. 617 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 2: She was one of them, and I was like, oh 618 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: my god, my friend Tara just passed away, blah blah, 619 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: and it was like it was time, you know, like 620 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 2: she had been fighting it and she was really sick, 621 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 2: and so there was some relief in it. And then 622 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 2: like twenty minutes later, I get a text that was 623 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: like JK got the wrong information she's not dead, and 624 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 2: I was like, and I'd already texted a bunch of 625 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 2: friends to like pass information. 626 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: On hers, like at the table, basically crying. 627 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 2: Crying it was, and then I was laughing, you know 628 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: because like, and then when I got when we got 629 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 2: together for her funeral with friends, like, we all laughed 630 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: about it because it's like that was the most Tara 631 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 2: thing ever that like word got out that she was dead, 632 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 2: but then she wasn't. She would have gotten such a 633 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 2: good laugh out of it. And to be able to, 634 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 2: like in our grief, find the humor the humanity of 635 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: the person that we'd lost, I think was really helpful. 636 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 2: You know, that does not mean that there weren't dark moments, 637 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 2: of course, but you know, I think grieving it is 638 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 2: it's like what he said at Ebbs and Flows. So 639 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 2: sometimes I am laughing about it, but then sometimes I'm like, 640 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: I really wish that she was here to experience this 641 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: moment because this would be so tar or whatever. 642 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: So well, I think that there's two things you've said 643 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: that I really want to point out about the grief 644 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: process that I think are really important. And one is community, Right, 645 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: Like that was something that we talked about on the 646 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: podcast Wednesday was he mentioned twelve Step and I've had 647 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: this experience as well, where it's like, when you go 648 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: to a place of people who have walked through similar stories, 649 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: it does help with the pain of what you're feeling, 650 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: because grief can feel so isolating, and we keep mentioning death, 651 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: but there's so many different things that can happen to 652 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: put someone into a grieving place. And I think that 653 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: that's also important to say, because it's like I think 654 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: when we don't equate it to something big enough, there's 655 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: often a lot of shame in that part of the 656 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: journey too, and so you're like, oh, but it's no 657 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: big deal, you went through something worse, you know. Like 658 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: I think that that's a common thing that people say, is, well, 659 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: I don't really want to make this a big thing 660 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: because like they went through X, Y, and Z, and like, 661 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: we cannot compare ourselves to others because everyone's journey is 662 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: completely different, and what you experienced in your story could 663 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: be as big as in their story for them, you know, 664 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: like we don't really know. But finding the people who 665 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: can hear you out, who can feel like safe people 666 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: to talk to and that will continue on the path 667 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: with you, like not it doesn't have to be every day, 668 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: but like just so you don't feel like you're walking alone. 669 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: Like I find that to be a very important part 670 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: of the process of grief, Like the people who can 671 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: respect the journey and the process of it. And then 672 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: also just like really being honest with each other, like 673 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: what we were saying, Like I said to our friend 674 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: who lost his mom, like, I don't know what to say, 675 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: but I'm happy to sit with you in any of 676 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: this because I'm very comfortable there and like, tell me 677 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: what you want to say. And like I still often 678 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: talk to him about his mom, and he's told me 679 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: that was the most helpful thing, because so many people 680 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: just want that part of his story to be over 681 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: or they think that the conversation about her is over 682 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: because she hasn't been here now for maybe like three years, 683 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: I think, And for him it's an everyday thing, you know, 684 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: just like you're saying. And so I think being acknowledged 685 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: in that and witnessed in that is healing for us. Yeah, 686 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: people and human So that's just really important too. 687 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 2: I wonder if it's just you know, us again not 688 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 2: knowing what to say. So if you do say something 689 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 2: and then it brings up tears and then you're in 690 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 2: a then you're in this like uncomfortable position in those moments, 691 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 2: like you have to take yourself out of the equation 692 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 2: a little bit and think about the person that isn't 693 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: grieving and give them what you think they might. 694 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: Need, or just ask them like I just really don't 695 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: know that we know, you know, like I don't. I think, 696 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: like you said at the beginning of this podcast, everyone 697 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: grieves in different ways, and everyone's needs are so different 698 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: in those moments, and so like how could you predict it? 699 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: But I think what you're trying to say too is 700 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,959 Speaker 1: the part about like maybe not taking it personal if 701 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: you don't get it exactly right and you upset them, 702 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: Like there's all these layers to what they're feeling. Some 703 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: of it could just be projection as well, and hopefully 704 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: you can say it at some point like you know, 705 00:33:58,400 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: my heart's in the right place. I don't know what 706 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: to say say to you, and so I'm struggling like 707 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: just be I just think being honest never really goes wrong. 708 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 2: Yes, or or offering saying like hey, I have no 709 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 2: idea what you're going through right now, But I am 710 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 2: here no matter what. Yes, call me in the middle 711 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 2: of the night if you need me, ye need I'll 712 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: do it. 713 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: I think that goes a long way too. 714 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does well. 715 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: I was reading about a bunch of other cultures and 716 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: John kind of mentioned this in the podcast Wednesday, But 717 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: like there would be there's certain cultures that really honor 718 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: grief in a way that like if someone spouse dies, 719 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: I think it's like I think it was a twelve 720 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: month ritual that this person does or whatever, and it's 721 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: honored by the whole culture. I'm not doing it very 722 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: much justice right now because I don't remember the specifics, 723 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: but it's like, because of that happening, like if you 724 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,919 Speaker 1: become a widower, people know what that process would be 725 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: and it's very respected, and that's all I really want. 726 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: I don't think that that's realistic in our culture to 727 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: be like, Okay, well see it in twelve months, get 728 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: back to us whatever, or that you could even put 729 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: a time period on that. But I do think there's 730 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,399 Speaker 1: something really beautiful about honoring the process of it and 731 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: respecting where people are and knowing it's going to be 732 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: day to day for a long time, like they're not 733 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: going to even know what each day is going to bring. 734 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: And like Robin Williams Sun said, is it just shows 735 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: its face usually out of the blue. It's totally unpredictable. 736 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: You could be driving down the street and see something 737 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 1: or hear a song or whatever, and that's the thing 738 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: that sends you into a bad place that day. So 739 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: just knowing that, like you're not just gonna like snap 740 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 1: your fingers and get over something and then be done forever. 741 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 2: Well, it reminds me too of the Stephen Wilson Junior, 742 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 2: who I'm like a super fan of. He has a 743 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 2: song called Grief Is Only Love and the lyric is 744 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 2: grief is only Love with nowhere else to go. And 745 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 2: I think if you can hold onto that concept, and 746 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 2: by the way, if anybody is grieving and needs a 747 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 2: great record to like feel not alone and to cry 748 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 2: and listen to, the Son of Dad by Stephen will 749 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 2: Junior is so good and it's his father was his 750 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 2: best friend and he was a single dad that raised 751 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 2: him and he lost his dad and this record was, 752 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 2: you know how he dealt with that that grief, which 753 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 2: you know, I think in some ways he says, it's 754 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 2: a little unhealthy because now I have to go on 755 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 2: stage and like grief publicly every night. Yeah, but I 756 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 2: think that's his process. So, but grief is only love 757 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 2: with nowhere else to go is such an amazing idea, 758 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 2: so that when you do get sad, it's just a 759 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 2: reminder like that this person or this thing that you 760 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 2: loved so much isn't in your life anymore. 761 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, you wouldn't feel the sadness if you didn't feel 762 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: all that. 763 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 2: Love, right, So it's it's a really beautiful thing. I also, 764 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 2: you know, wanted to bring up for my Jewish friends 765 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 2: who sit shiva. It's like that is a cultural thing 766 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 2: that I've never really understood, like exactly what it is. 767 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 2: I've heard the I've heard it mentioned a lot, especially 768 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 2: when I lived in Los Angeles, I had lots of 769 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 2: friends that would sit shiva, and it's such an interesting 770 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 2: I read up about it a little today and it's 771 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 2: a week long morning process. And one of the things 772 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 2: that I thought that was most interesting about it is 773 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 2: like they use the time to discuss the loss and 774 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,919 Speaker 2: to accept the comfort from others, And I think that's 775 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 2: really important. 776 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: That's the comfort from others yes. 777 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 2: Because basically you're I mean, you're you're sitting for seven 778 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 2: days and you're you know, guests are coming in to 779 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 2: mourn with you and to grieve with you, and this 780 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 2: all happens post funeral. So once you can't sit shive 781 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 2: until like the grave is completely covered by soil, and 782 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,479 Speaker 2: then you sit for seven days and when you when 783 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 2: you end shiva, you get up and you walk around 784 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 2: the block to signify like you're going back into the world. 785 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: Wow. 786 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 2: But I think the really important thing that jumped out 787 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 2: to me was that it lets you accept the comfort 788 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 2: of others, which it sounds really beautiful to me, you know, 789 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 2: and I love that culture. 790 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course it is, but respect it. Yeah, yeah, and. 791 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 2: I'm sure you know there are some people that like 792 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 2: take it. I mean that's the wrong term, but like 793 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 2: you know, the people that are like they want the 794 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 2: attention of giving you their acceptance or giving you their 795 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 2: their comfort. People do it for the wrong reasons or 796 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 2: because they feel like they have to or whatever. But 797 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: I just love culturally that that exists. Yeah, I know, 798 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 2: like that's I didn't have that in the church that 799 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 2: I grew up in. Like you would have a funeral 800 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 2: and then there was like the party, you know, whatever 801 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 2: it is. You would have the viewing, the funeral, and 802 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 2: then there's the party afterwards where everyone brings a dish 803 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 2: and then everyone leaves and you're stuck there with a 804 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 2: bunch of leftovers and dishes that you have to return. 805 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: Not to be Debbie Downer, but yeah, so yeah, I do. 806 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 1: I do agree. I think there's it's a beautiful thing 807 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: that people honor it in that way. And although that 808 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,439 Speaker 1: process sounds very tiring to me emotionally, I can see 809 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: where it would be very cathartic as well, and then 810 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: you would maybe be ready to go back out into 811 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: the world in a different kind of way, because I've 812 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: spent seven straight days going through that process. So I 813 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: think it's just an interesting conversation, like we said, and 814 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: I do really respect this book The Magic and the 815 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: Tragic because reframing that conversation to even speak about grief 816 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: in this way, to go try to find the beauty 817 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: in it and to find whatever your process was. Like, 818 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: he talked a lot about his grieving process involved really 819 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: getting into music, and there was some creativity that he 820 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: found during one of his deepest grieving processes, and like 821 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: really leaning on the arts in certain ways. Like you 822 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: were just mentioning Stephen Wilson Junior's album. I mean that's 823 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: what he did too, that's how he got it out. 824 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: I'm not a songwriter, so don't have that luxury, but 825 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 1: like it could be anything. It could What I described 826 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: was sitting outside and noticing nature. That's a beautiful creative 827 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: process in a lot of ways too, a connecting process. 828 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: So I think it's different for everyone. If you are 829 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: in a stage of loss or grief, go check out 830 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: this book. And also, like what Robin williams Son said, 831 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: I love giving back doing service, Like that's a beautiful 832 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: way to kind of get out of your own self 833 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: and remember what we're all here for, you know, at 834 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: the end of the day. So anyway, the book's called 835 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: Magic in the Tragic. I'll put it in the description 836 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: of this podcast. If you guys want to talk to 837 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: us about this conversation at all, you can always email 838 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: us at the Edge at velvet sedge dot com. You 839 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: can hit me up on Instagram I'm at Velvet. 840 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 2: Edge Chip, I'm at chipdoor should Chip d r scch. 841 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: We also are starting our own Velvet Edge podcast Instagram 842 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: at Velvet Edge podcast, so go follow that. We're gonna 843 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: be posting really soon, so go check that out. And 844 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: as you guys go into the weekend and you're living 845 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: on the edge, I hope you always remember too a 846 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: casual we gonna nurse this red face. Bye,