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Speaker 1: Welcome to Out of Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and

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Speaker 1: today we're asking the question is early retirement a smart goal?

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Speaker 2: We are talking about early retirements or retiring early. I

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Speaker 2: think we're going to refer I was realizing as I

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Speaker 2: was thinking through this episode, you've got the financial independence

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Speaker 2: retire early or is it financially independent retired early? There's

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Speaker 2: so many different ways of saying and that obviously that's

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Speaker 2: the acronym fire, which I think a lot of folks

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Speaker 2: might have been introduced to the idea of early retirement

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Speaker 2: via Fire specifically.

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Speaker 1: But there are all sorts of different people in the

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Speaker 1: Fire movement and different kind of takes on retiring early.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we have had different conversations about this in

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Speaker 1: the past, but we want to talk about a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of different things when it comes to retiring earlier,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a good goal to have, and then yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe how to skin that cat if that's.

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Speaker 2: What you're going for. We like to talk about you

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Speaker 2: and I as we are planning and thinking through the

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Speaker 2: different topics we're going to discuss. We always come up

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Speaker 2: with different metaphors and examples, and I feel like fire

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Speaker 2: early retirement is just one of those things that folks

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Speaker 2: have heard about. It's kind of like in the background,

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Speaker 2: it's in their subconscious. They've seen maybe different articles floating around,

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Speaker 2: but they don't know exactly what it is or how

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Speaker 2: they should be thinking about it right now. It kind

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Speaker 2: of makes me think of AI, like that's all the

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Speaker 2: rage right now? And is it coming from a job

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Speaker 2: or is it just a chief trade exactly? Is it

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Speaker 2: a good thing, is it a bad thing? I don't know.

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Speaker 2: But before you you know, one hundred percent go after

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Speaker 2: something and say that this is going to solve all

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Speaker 2: of our problems. And in this case we're talking about

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Speaker 2: early retirement, it is worth thinking through the different ramifications

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Speaker 2: that it might have on your life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to talk about it today with one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent assurance. Chat GPT is not going to solve

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Speaker 1: all the problems avail us. It might, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: help on the edges. It might make some differences, but

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Speaker 1: like it can't fix the pain in my bad or

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Speaker 1: anything like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, so it won't. But before we get

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Speaker 2: to that, man, I've got a question for you because

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Speaker 2: I was talking with Kate the other day and she

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Speaker 2: made me aware of these shoes. I'm pretty sure they're

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Speaker 2: buy a company called Golden Goose, which is incredibly ironic,

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Speaker 2: as listeners will will soon here if they already don't

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Speaker 2: know what these shoes are all about. But these are

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Speaker 2: some really really expensive sneakers, right. And here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm not against spending some money on some sneakers, right, like,

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Speaker 2: in particular, if they're really high quality shoes, or if

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Speaker 2: they have like a lifetime warranty, like no matter what,

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Speaker 2: just send them back in and we'll resoll them for

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Speaker 2: you for the rest of your life, or if like

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Speaker 2: if there are specialty shoes, right. But no, they're just

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Speaker 2: for the most part, they're just normal looking white sneakers.

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Speaker 2: But here's the kicker. They come pre manufactured with dirt

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Speaker 2: on there. I guess, like I think they just print

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Speaker 2: it onto the rubber. They just print it on to

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Speaker 2: the leather, make it look scuffed, to make it look scuffed.

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Speaker 2: These are normal looking shoes otherwise, and these things cost

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Speaker 2: upwards of four hundred bucks. I saw some some pairs

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Speaker 2: are like I think six or seven hundred dollars for

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Speaker 2: these silly Golden Goose sneakers. But I wanted to get

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Speaker 2: your thoughts, like, what are your what are your thoughts?

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Speaker 2: I think you know my thoughts. I think you know

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Speaker 2: my thoughts.

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Speaker 1: I think it's ridiculous, and it just makes me think

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Speaker 1: of what is it like Neeman, Marcus and some of

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Speaker 1: those kind of expensive retailers selling you pre ripped jeans,

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Speaker 1: right sure that costs or with like paint splatter all

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Speaker 1: over them. And you can do that to your jeans

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Speaker 1: yourself if you want to, and you can just buy

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Speaker 1: a pair of that cost less up front. And I,

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Speaker 1: like you said, like, I'm willing to pay more sometimes

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Speaker 1: for nicer goods, Like my jeans aren't twenty dollars jeans.

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Speaker 1: I've found out early on that buying the twenty dollars

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Speaker 1: jeans meant I wasn't gonna wear them, and they became

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Speaker 1: misshapen quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah they'll shred.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I like you know, to buy I don't

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Speaker 1: mind buying one hundred dollars pair of jeans because I

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Speaker 1: literally have been wearing the same jeans for ten years, right,

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Speaker 1: the same pair of jeens, So I don't mind spending more.

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Speaker 2: Or the same pair of jeans for one year straight.

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Speaker 2: You can't wear them like all the time. If you

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Speaker 2: were for.

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Speaker 1: I've got like three pairs of jeans that I rotate,

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Speaker 1: and one of them I have had for a decade.

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Speaker 2: But it's it's one of those things where I'm just

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Speaker 2: everyone's picturing like Joel's ratty jeans and feeling bad for Yeah. No, no,

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Speaker 2: I'll get new jeans if I need them. Okay, I can,

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Speaker 2: I can make that happen.

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Speaker 1: But no, I think this is just kind of like

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Speaker 1: it's really it's a attempt to signal that you get

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Speaker 1: the cool goods.

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Speaker 2: That's that's one hundred percent. So that's conspicuous consumption. Yeah right,

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Speaker 2: that like there is no additional value that you're paying for.

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Speaker 2: It's just proving that you have the funds available in

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Speaker 2: order to buy some of these shoes. It's signaling. And

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Speaker 2: that's the part that feels wasteful, Like that's the part.

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Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean I don't.

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Speaker 1: Want to go to Walmart and get the ten dollars

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Speaker 1: pair of shoes, okay, like.

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Speaker 2: Like a middle ground somewhere, and again, like I don't

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Speaker 2: want to yuck on someone else's YOUM but I have

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Speaker 2: a hard time getting excited. I have a hard time

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Speaker 2: getting behind someone who's gonna say like, yes, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: buy these shoes that intentionally come dirtied up, and like

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Speaker 2: that's the other silly part because if you buy rip jeans,

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Speaker 2: well that's a real rip. But when it comes to

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Speaker 2: these sneakers, these shoes not like rubb and real dirt

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Speaker 2: on there. It's it's like it's pre decided, it's designed

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Speaker 2: dirt and it's printed on there. Okay, what makes me

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Speaker 2: think of Zoolander. It's like the dar Lak campaign.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So one time my mom bought me some

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Speaker 1: some Converse All Stars some Chuck Taylor's Classic for my

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Speaker 1: birthday because I like Chucks. They're great, and they're a

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Speaker 1: pretty inexpensive shoe, what like thirty five forty forty five bucks, right,

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Speaker 1: depending on the making model you're getting of Chucks. And

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Speaker 1: she said they actually came pre scuffed, and she's like,

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Speaker 1: I cleaned them before I gave them to you, because

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Speaker 1: I thought that this was like a flaw or something

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Speaker 1: that I didn't know if they were pre worn or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I think that's how they care.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. It was funny, Yeah, are you sure

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Speaker 2: that it wasn't just a returned pair? It could have been.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. I don't know. It's like getting

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Speaker 2: goods on Amazon. Now you're getting more and more things

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Speaker 2: that you can tell somebody has like, yeah, oh they

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Speaker 2: tried it on.

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Speaker 1: Like they didn't look worn on the bottom. So I

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Speaker 1: just like cleaned up the white part real quick. But

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, mom, no, I don't care.

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Speaker 2: All the cool kids, there'shes already stuff like that. Hullo

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Speaker 2: stuff myself if I need to anyway, all that being said,

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Speaker 2: if you are somebody who likes issues, so I'm certainly

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Speaker 2: not gonna hate on you. But it's yeah, not my

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Speaker 2: cup of tea. Yeah, exactly. All right, matt Let's move on.

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Speaker 2: Let's mention the beer we're having on this episode. This

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Speaker 2: one is called Ferris Coffee Imperial Stout by New Park Brewing.

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Speaker 2: This one was donated to the show by listener Matthew.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to our thoughts on this one at the

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Speaker 2: end of the episode. Yes, so let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: Let's ask the question. Is early retirement a smart goal?

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Speaker 1: And we've all had someone tell us to kick the

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Speaker 1: tires before buying a car, or to look before we leap,

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Speaker 1: before we make a big decision.

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Speaker 2: There are all good advice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they are all sorts of like slogans that caution

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Speaker 1: us to perform our due diligence before we make a

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Speaker 1: big decision. And I don't know why, Matt, this got

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Speaker 1: me thinking about the movie Cinderella, and.

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Speaker 2: Like, the the one from the eighties. Was it the

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Speaker 2: eighties the animated.

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Speaker 1: No was before that tea, Yes, Gus, it was like

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifties maybe even was it. Yeah, it's really old.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Yeah, no, it's like

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Speaker 2: a super It was like one of the original I

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Speaker 2: remember watching it as a kid. It was one of

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Speaker 2: my favorites. I want to say, fifty seven them all

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Speaker 2: about those mice, Yeah, I thought they were awesome. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 2: here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird story when you actually stop and think

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Speaker 1: about it, right, The Cinderella and the prince they dance

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Speaker 1: for one night, and then he ends up sending his

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Speaker 1: goons around town to find the girl whose foot fits

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Speaker 1: the glass.

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Speaker 2: Slippers perfectly normal so they can get married.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, dude, me thinks, maybe you're getting attached

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Speaker 1: a little too quickly. You don't even know her yet,

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Speaker 1: and she might not be who you think she is because,

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Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, she talks to animals. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: she could be a little whack a doodle in the brain,

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Speaker 1: But there's like a reason that you go on dates

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Speaker 1: for at least a few weeks before you propose, and

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Speaker 1: hopefully even longer than a few weeks. But sounds like

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Speaker 1: looking before you leap right, exactly. And so it's a

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Speaker 1: matter of due diligence really when we're getting to know somebody,

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Speaker 1: you know, to ensure that the person isn't a psycho

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Speaker 1: before we commit to spending the rest of our lives

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Speaker 1: with them. And similarly, early retirement. On its face, I

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Speaker 1: think can seem like the best pursuit. It can seem

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Speaker 1: like a good idea and a worthy goal, and it

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Speaker 1: might be for some folks out there, but we would

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Speaker 1: say not before thinking it through on a bunch of fronts.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, you might find out that earlier tournament

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Speaker 2: is the perfect pursuit for you. More power to you,

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Speaker 2: but definitely do your homework before deciding that this is

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Speaker 2: the end goal that you want to achieve, because it's

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Speaker 2: going to come with some significant ramifications, not quite as

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Speaker 2: significant as you know that the person you choose to

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Speaker 2: marry if you're the prince, but if you're going after

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Speaker 2: your life and let's be honest, she was a cat.

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Speaker 2: She's a great girl, Cinderella. If you're going all in

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Speaker 2: though on early retirement before performing that due diligence, you

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Speaker 2: might be in a world of hurt. So we're going

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Speaker 2: to offer our thoughts on how to decide if retiring

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Speaker 2: sooner than your peers is going to be a good

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Speaker 2: goal for you. We're going to tackle a number of questions,

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Speaker 2: both like financial and math related, but also questions kind

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Speaker 2: of more on the personal front as well. And we

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Speaker 2: think that these factors, considering all these factors and answering

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Speaker 2: these questions are going to help you to decide if

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Speaker 2: early retirement is going to be a goal worth pursuing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think some folks might get to the

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Speaker 1: end of this episode and they might say, Hey, that

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Speaker 1: sounds like my cup of tea, like I want to

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Speaker 1: join the early retirement movement. And others might say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like it's really my jam.

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Speaker 2: But they can go either way.

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Speaker 1: I think like internet articles often make it sound though,

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Speaker 1: Matt like early retirement is the Bee's knees, and I

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Speaker 1: think true, that's part of the problem is they're selling

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Speaker 1: a bill of goods or making it sound like it's

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Speaker 1: just the greatest thing since sliced bread. And there was

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Speaker 1: a recent headline I saw on market Watch and it

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Speaker 1: read this fire couple retired at the age of twenty nine.

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Speaker 1: For them, it's always the weekend, and Bully, that sounds appealing.

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Speaker 1: I read that twenty nine, I'm ten years too late

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Speaker 1: to pursue this goal and what a slacker. And weekends

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Speaker 1: are awesome, Like, I'm not against weekends. I have a

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Speaker 1: lot of good good times on the weekends. We go

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Speaker 1: for family hikes almost every weekend, or bike rides, or

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Speaker 1: we get out in nature. We do lots of great

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Speaker 1: stuff together, we make awesome memories. But do I really

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Speaker 1: want my life to be like one long, perpetual weekend.

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Speaker 1: Do most folks want that?

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Speaker 2: Maybe? Maybe not?

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Speaker 1: Like maybe the weekend is so great because it marks

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Speaker 1: the end of a successful week, not because it's never ending.

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Speaker 1: And it just makes me think of like the another

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Speaker 1: movie reference here, Groundhog Day, right, and you know the

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Speaker 1: classic from the fifties, right that it's actually from the eighties. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And it's just a great film, of course, But if

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Speaker 1: you recall the movie Matt Bill Murray, he starts to

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Speaker 1: tried to kill himself in multiple ways because you know,

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Speaker 1: living the same day over and over actually starts to

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Speaker 1: get kind of boring and ultimately kind of depressing. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it makes me think of that, Like,

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Speaker 1: these are the kind of things that we want our

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Speaker 1: listeners to consider before they say, ooh, early retirement weekends

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Speaker 1: and never end, sign me up. Like, the reality is

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Speaker 1: that most folks who decide to pursue this lifestyle there,

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Speaker 1: you know, they aren't even doing it with the goal

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Speaker 1: of perpetual weekends, right. Often they're they're doing it with

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Speaker 1: like I would say, an even worse goal.

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Speaker 2: They're trying to run away from a job than they Yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: I totally agree, man, Yeah, like they think their job sucks.

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Speaker 2: And it seems that like that that's one of the

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Speaker 2: top reasons that we see folks gravitate towards early retirement

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Speaker 2: as ultimate goal. They are running away from something, not

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Speaker 2: necessarily running towards something. But if that's the case, though,

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Speaker 2: you know, if that's the main reason, we feel like

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Speaker 2: there are other potentially more appropriate solutions that folks might

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Speaker 2: want to pursue, which we'll discuss later in the episode.

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Speaker 2: But for others, it can be dreams of what retired

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Speaker 2: life could look like. Right, And it's not a bad

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Speaker 2: idea to have a picture of retirement for yourself, but

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Speaker 2: it is important to be to be grounded in reality,

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Speaker 2: because I think the fantasy of retirement can often be

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Speaker 2: more delusional than an actionable plan. And you know Joel

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Speaker 2: earlier a few weeks ago in episode six twenty three,

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Speaker 2: we talked about ways that you can maximize your income.

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Speaker 2: We are all for folks trying to find ways to

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Speaker 2: maybe leave an employer that isn't going to be great

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Speaker 2: for the career, maybe that doesn't have the like the

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Speaker 2: most healthy environment. But simultaneously, I think for a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks, just by changing their how it is that

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Speaker 2: they view their work, right, Like, I'm just talking about

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Speaker 2: more of like a like a mindset shift that might

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Speaker 2: take place, or just displaying more ownership. I think these

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Speaker 2: are ways that you can demonstrate to yourself that it's

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Speaker 2: not that my job sucks. I've just been thinking about

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Speaker 2: it wrong this entire time. I think that could be

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Speaker 2: in just a very simple way, to help folks to

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Speaker 2: realize that, oh wow, my job actually doesn't suck all

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Speaker 2: that bad. I've just been thinking about it incorrectly.

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Speaker 1: What makes me think of the show Dirty Jobs with

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Speaker 1: Mike Row and how he would always he would talk

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Speaker 1: to people who had what a lot of us would consider.

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Speaker 2: The worst job, absolute worst, dirtiest, worst job.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the crummiest, dirtiest jobs, climbing through sewers and I

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Speaker 1: mean all sorts of nasty stuff. I didn't really watch

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Speaker 1: the show myself, but from what I could tell, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that had those jobs seem to take

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Speaker 1: great pride in their profession. And I think you're right.

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Speaker 1: A lot of it is kind of a mindset shift

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Speaker 1: about how we view our work. And it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that you can't get out of a and shouldn't get

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Speaker 1: out of a toxic work situation or look to find

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Speaker 1: something better in the future. I think growth is important

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Speaker 1: and that matters too, But you're right. I think just

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Speaker 1: running away though from work altogether, is like a bad

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Speaker 1: motivation when it comes to pursuing early retirement. And let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the origins of retirement and early retirement for

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Speaker 1: a second, Matt, because like retirement is a pretty new

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Speaker 1: concept overall. And so yeah, where did it come from

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Speaker 1: and how long has this been like a pursuit well,

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Speaker 1: government financial.

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Speaker 2: Support for the elderly.

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Speaker 1: It started in the eighteen hundreds, late eighteen hundreds in

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Speaker 1: a country, former country called Prussia, right, And when social

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Speaker 1: Security was instituted in the United States, that was like

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Speaker 1: not none until like nineteen thirty five, right, Matt, when

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Speaker 1: the Social Security Act was passed, and it had a

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Speaker 1: completely different goal, not to fund decades of retirement, decades

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Speaker 1: of leisure time, but really to aid the most vulnerable

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Speaker 1: folks in our society who ended up living longer than

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Speaker 1: the average lifespan. So that concept of moving to Florida

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Speaker 1: for three decades and walk in the beach with your

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Speaker 1: significant other like that is.

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Speaker 2: Not gonna say with your metal detective that too. That

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Speaker 2: might be your significant other some day. That's that's more

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Speaker 2: my speed.

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Speaker 1: I could say you've fallen in love with one of

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Speaker 1: those Yeah, that's awesome objects like scoop and or for

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Speaker 1: lost rings and watches, but some people like that. I

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Speaker 1: just want to make it clear, like we are less

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Speaker 1: than one hundred years removed even from the institution of

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Speaker 1: Social Security, as a concept, and so the modern idea

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Speaker 1: that we have of retirement is so new right, and

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Speaker 1: we're living longer now than ever before, and that's why

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Speaker 1: I think social security has more of an impact on

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Speaker 1: those retirement years. But that's also part of the reason

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Speaker 1: that social security is bound to become insolvent. We haven't

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Speaker 1: fixed any of the problems. It's pretty hard to fund

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Speaker 1: decades worth of leisure for a huge segment of the population,

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Speaker 1: so it's becoming untenable in our politicians don't seem to

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Speaker 1: want to do anything about it. They don't seem to

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Speaker 1: want to fix the problem. And we talked about that

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Speaker 1: back in episode four thirteen, Matt, something's got to give.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants to address the elephant in the room. I

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Speaker 1: think it's possible to find a way to make social

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Speaker 1: security sustainable, but it's easier said than done, especially when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about elected officials who don't really have any

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Speaker 1: desire to do anything. They just want to grainstand about it.

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Speaker 2: Sure well, they're not willing to do anything about it

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Speaker 2: because like nobody wants to be the grown up in

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Speaker 2: the room. It's like, it makes me think of like

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Speaker 2: when you're a parent and you've got kids, and all

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Speaker 2: they want to do is eat candy. But you have

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Speaker 2: to be the parent that says, no, you can't just

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Speaker 2: sit there and watch TV and eat candy. You go

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Speaker 2: to your room, clean your room, do your homework. And also,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna eat real food. You're a newcumber right now.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna eat some protein and some vegetables, some fruit.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna have a real meal. At this point, that's

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Speaker 2: what needs to happen with Social Security.

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Speaker 1: But I think that kind of just reframing and making

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Speaker 1: it helping our listeners understand that this idea of retirement

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Speaker 1: hasn't been around for hundreds of years. It's still pretty

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Speaker 1: brand spanking new to think about it. And now it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like expected, well, sure, I need to save

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Speaker 1: for forty years of retirement, and now the early retirement

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Speaker 1: community is saying, no, we want to save for like

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Speaker 1: sixty or seventy years of retirement, which is even newer.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, it is much like it seems like it's

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Speaker 2: almost something that's as old as like the United States,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, much much younger, yeah than the founding of

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Speaker 2: our country. It's a novel concept and actually nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: two feels like the first time that early retirement became

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Speaker 2: a popular concept. That's when the book Your Money or

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Speaker 2: Your Life came out VICKI Robbins and Joe I Forget

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Speaker 2: Joe's Lost Joe. And actually it wasn't really until like

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Speaker 2: twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, ten years ago. This was not

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Speaker 2: that long ago that different blogs and podcasts and different

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Speaker 2: books on the subject of early retirement started to be released.

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Speaker 2: And so, yes, traditional retirement is pretty young. Early retirement is. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: it's still in its infancy, and it's important to realize

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Speaker 2: that because a lot of things are still unsettled within

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Speaker 2: the world of early retirement. For instance, can you work

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Speaker 2: at all and still be retired? A lot of fire

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Speaker 2: folks still make money doing different fun projects or starting

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Speaker 2: their own businesses things on the side, But that's not

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Speaker 2: the traditional view of retirement match and I would say exactly,

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Speaker 2: So it's different, right, like, are you wanting to quit

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Speaker 2: work to pursue your own thing or are you looking

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Speaker 2: to travel and perpetuity? Does that make it a more

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Speaker 2: legitimate retirement? Are you actually retired if you're still making money,

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Speaker 2: or at that point are you considered to be semi retired.

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Speaker 2: I think that's one of the criticisms of early retirements,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of folks have voiced that. Actually, somebody

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Speaker 2: reached out to us because we highlighted a friend of

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Speaker 2: the show, Rachel Richard's, in our newsletter. We talked about

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Speaker 2: how she retired early, but simultaneously she's busier than ever,

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Speaker 2: which I see the maybe we shouldn't have turned it

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Speaker 2: in that way, because honestly, what Rachel has done, she

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Speaker 2: certainly shifted careers, but she's still working.

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Speaker 1: She I think she's working on her third book as

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Speaker 1: we speak, and she's probably working harder than ever. But

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Speaker 1: it's more entrepreneurship in her case than you what oftentimes

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Speaker 1: folks considered to be early retirement. I think when we

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Speaker 1: talk about early retirement, oftentimes people are saying, like, I

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Speaker 1: could afford to live a meager lifestyle and wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: to work if I didn't want to. But most people

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Speaker 1: choose to do something meaningful with their time, because that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what humans reremds do in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that as well on today's episode.

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Speaker 1: But there's also just different kinds of early retirement, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's the definition is hard to understand. But then

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Speaker 1: there's different monikers that have been created for a bunch

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Speaker 1: of specific routes that you can take on the path

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Speaker 1: to early retirement. In these different routes attempt to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: the reality that it's going to look different depending on

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Speaker 1: your goals, your age, and your level of financial preparedness.

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Speaker 1: For example, coast fire is when you've got a healthy

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Speaker 1: chunk set aside in your portfolio and then you can

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Speaker 1: take your foot off the gas. So basically, for let's

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Speaker 1: say ten to fifteen years, you're saving a ton your

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Speaker 1: nose to the grindstone mentality. You're front loading the sacrifice

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Speaker 1: in a major way in those early years, which gives

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Speaker 1: you more options to increase your spending or just to

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Speaker 1: quit completely your job or quit saving for retirement at

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Speaker 1: least after that initial phase, that initial stint of front

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Speaker 1: loading those contributions. Or there's like lean fire adherents who

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Speaker 1: mostly just want to amass.

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Speaker 2: Enough to squeak by. Right. There are ultra frugalites, and

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Speaker 2: so those are the folks living in a trailer in

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Speaker 2: the woods, living on like twenty thousand dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they want to save just enough so that they

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Speaker 1: can do whatever they want, but whatever they want has

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Speaker 1: to be within massive amounts of reason because they have

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Speaker 1: they have to live frugally because they haven't saved enough

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Speaker 1: to do much beyond that. And so, yeah, when you're

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Speaker 1: considering whether or not early retirement is for you, it's

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Speaker 1: not a one size fits all proposition either, which makes

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Speaker 1: it a little trickier. You got to figure out what

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Speaker 1: kind of early retirement lifestyle you want to live first

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Speaker 1: before you even start to answer the other parts of

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Speaker 1: that question, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So not only are there different flavors of fire

433
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 2: for folks to consider, different types of early retirement that

434
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 2: might fit their situation the best, but we also have

435
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 2: a number of different questions that listeners can ask themselves.

436
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,439
Speaker 2: We've got some specific like financial or number related questions,

437
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 2: as well as some non monetary factors that you need

438
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 2: to consider as well, and so we will get to

439
00:19:50,320 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 2: all of those right after this. All right, Matt, let's

440
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 2: keep going.

441
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,120
Speaker 1: We're talking about early retirement and whether it makes sense

442
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 1: for the average person, and it's definitely not for the

443
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 1: average person, right, because I think if you.

444
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,439
Speaker 2: Both of those instances, I thought you were gonna say

445
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 2: the average bear. It was like it a yogi. Yeah, well,

446
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 2: did you ever watch that one back in the day

447
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,360
Speaker 2: a little bit? I mean that was talked about old

448
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 2: school cartoon. I know that was pretty old too, But

449
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 2: we're falling into this like nostalgia mindset that we need

450
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 2: to probably stop.

451
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think it's it's definitely not for the

452
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,879
Speaker 1: average person because you have to be very different than

453
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,360
Speaker 1: average and have a different kind of mindset if you're

454
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,199
Speaker 1: going to achieve early retirement. You can't just kind of

455
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 1: do what the average person does because, like when you

456
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 1: look at the averages, the average person doesn't have enough

457
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: money to cover a four hundred dollars expense, The average

458
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: person doesn't have very much money in their emergency fund,

459
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 1: and their savings rate, the average person savings rate is

460
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: in a three percent range. So you got to be way, way,

461
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 1: way above average if you want to achieve early retirement.

462
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 2: I think you said average nine er ten times probably.

463
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, don't be average. But yeah, let's talk

464
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 1: about the the We're gonna talk about the non financial

465
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: aspect here in the second of what you're going to

466
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 1: want to consider before you set your course for early retirement.

467
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: But first let's talk about some of the money mechanics

468
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: for a minute, Matt and like, how will people know

469
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: if they have enough money set aside in order to

470
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: retire early? And the math behind early retirement is actually

471
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: not terribly complicated. Mister money Mustache, who's one of the

472
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 1: foremost profits of the early retirement movement, he has a

473
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 1: post called the Shockingly Simple Math behind Early Retirement, and

474
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: he's right up until the point, like, I think the

475
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,959
Speaker 1: math in his post is not terribly complex, and at

476
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 1: the simplest level, the number that you need to have

477
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,679
Speaker 1: saved up inside your investment accounts is twenty five times

478
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 1: your annual expenses in order to not run out of money,

479
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: And mister money Mustash he assumes a five percent rate

480
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 1: to return after inflation and a four percent annual withdrawal rate.

481
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 1: I think the simplicity of that post and of his

482
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 1: approach are really great. On one hand, they can help

483
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: you visualize how few trade offs, just a few trade

484
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: offs can help you ratchet up your ability to reach

485
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: financial independence more quickly. But it's also far from perfect,

486
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: given a bunch of other factors that we need to

487
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: consider here.

488
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 2: That's right, factors that include some of the different expenses

489
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 2: that we experience in life, and so a large part

490
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 2: of knowing that you have enough is to forecast your expenses.

491
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 2: And a lot of folks in the early retirement community

492
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 2: are banking on certain things just continually being true that

493
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 2: they're just going to remain stagnant. But it is hard

494
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 2: to predict the future. So inflation, for instance, that could

495
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: throw a wrench in someone's early retirement plans. It's something

496
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: that we've seen recently, especially if they're opting for more

497
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: of the lean fire, right, like more that lean, hyper

498
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 2: frugal lifestyle.

499
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 1: When eggs cost, you know, just double in price in

500
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: the course of a year, that's going to mess up

501
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: if your lean fire and you're but.

502
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 2: Your grocery bille just went up fifty percent, is that tight? Yeah,

503
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: that's going to have an impact. Yeah, a few months

504
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: of those higher costs here and there are going to

505
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: add up if you're trying to live on twenty five

506
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year. So we think that if you

507
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: really want to retire before your peers, that it is

508
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: important to save more than you think you'll need. Don't

509
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 2: just purely count on that twenty five times your annual expenses. Again,

510
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 2: it's a great rule of thumb, it's a great place

511
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 2: to start. But we think it's good to have more

512
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,479
Speaker 2: on hand than you need. That'll give you just additional options,

513
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 2: that'll give you some peace of mind. Because hotter inflation numbers,

514
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: you know, they're still going to be tough to endure

515
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: in the moment, but they won't completely wreck your personal finances.

516
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: They won't completely throw you off track.

517
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: And I was kind of joking about egg prices like

518
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 1: wrecking someone's budget to the point where it completely derails

519
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: their early retirement. But that is, you know, people's grocery

520
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 1: bills have been affected in a major way obviously by

521
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: rising inflation. But something even more important that's going to

522
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 1: be a bigger line item in your budget is your

523
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: car insurance. And car insurance rates have been skyrocketing too.

524
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: People in our Facebook group have been saying, oh, my

525
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: car insurance went up six hundred dollars this year or

526
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: something like that, and it's been like, that's a lot

527
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: of money to absorb.

528
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: Significant if you're.

529
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: Not Yeah, if you're not bringing in any money and

530
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: you're trying to live that early retirement lifestyle. And so

531
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: it's important not just to bank on a best case scenario,

532
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: you have to have kind of contingency plans right in

533
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: place in case inflation runs out four years on end,

534
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: and in case you're you have to have that flexibility,

535
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: right Matt, Like you were just talking about additional options,

536
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: and if you're banking on things working out perfectly with

537
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: that twenty five x annual expensive scenario, you might be

538
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: in for a route awakening, a pretty sobering surprise. But

539
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: let's talk about something else that early retirement adherents often

540
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: run up against, and that's that they end up spending

541
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: more than they think they will once they do retire.

542
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: JP Morgan did a study of traditional retirees and they

543
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: found that those folks often experienced what they called a

544
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: spending surge in the two to three years post retirement.

545
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: They often spent on home renovations and fun trips, which

546
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: makes sense like early retirees are likely to experience something similar.

547
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: What's the point of bagging work if you aren't going

548
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: to exploit your newfound freedom and go on some cool

549
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: trips and do some excursions and stuff like that. Of course,

550
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: I would say people in the early retirement community, they're

551
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: likely to take those trips frugally right, utilizing credit card

552
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: card points or hostile stays or you know, other low

553
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: cost methods that are going to ensure that these trips

554
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: don't cost them nearly as much as the average person.

555
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: Of course, they're certainly not guaranteed to spend more, but

556
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: it's something to be aware of because again, you know,

557
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: more padding, like you were talking about, Matt, a larger

558
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,959
Speaker 1: cash cushion can allow folks to increase spending for some

559
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: of those post retirement excursions without completely freaking out exactly.

560
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: And it makes sense too from I guess the traditional

561
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: retirey standpoint, because oftentimes when you retire, you're you're not

562
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: anchored to a specific location from a geographic standpoint, You're free,

563
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: right like you are no longer tied to a specific city,

564
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: which I think oftentimes means that you can then maybe

565
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: move to wherever the kids are. You can move to

566
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 2: the beach, because you do want to be on the

567
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 2: beach with the sane Scooper metal detector. But either way,

568
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 2: I think it is it's smart to not necessarily count

569
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: on the most meager, lean existence possible. And it's something

570
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 2: else to account for is the high cost of health care,

571
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: and so I'm specifically talking about the premiums that we

572
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 2: pay that folks pay, But the same is true if

573
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: you end up using your coverage, right if you actually

574
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 2: get sick, or if you have to go to the

575
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 2: doctor or the hospital. Makes me think of a quick,

576
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: frugal or cheap that we could do about me making

577
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: an appointment goal for a doctor's visit that I resolved myself,

578
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: but we won't go there. Let's not. But there are

579
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: certainly going to be ways to reduce these costs, obviously,

580
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: but they're not full proof. So for instance, there's going

581
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 2: to be more subsidies out there for folks who are

582
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: buying policies on at the website healthcare dot gov these days,

583
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: but that may not always be the case. Health sharing

584
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: companies that can be another option that can make sense

585
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 2: for younger, for healthier folks who are willing to self insure,

586
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: but again they're not for everyone because it's not technically insurance.

587
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: And actually it can be easier to get cheaper health

588
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: care if you plan to live overseas instead of here

589
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: in the US here in the States, but obviously, like

590
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: what if you don't want to go move to Portugal

591
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 2: with everyone else who's retiring and going abroad, who doesn't

592
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 2: want to move to Portugal. Yet, it's hard to have

593
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 2: a full proof plan because there's just no silver bullet

594
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 2: answer to the question of these ever increasing health care

595
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: costs that are going to fall squarely on our shoulders

596
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: once we've decided to quit our jobs.

597
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely. I mean, I think if you're pursuing

598
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: early retirement or thinking about it and you haven't thought

599
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: through the high cost of health care, then you haven't

600
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: been thinking about it long enough, because that is going

601
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: to be one of those the most burdensome costs that

602
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: falls squarely on your shoulders.

603
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: Like I said, it's going to be it's all on you.

604
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: It is, simultaneously, it shouldn't. It's likely not going to

605
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 2: be prohibitively expensive, right because I think oftentimes in folks minds,

606
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 2: that is a roadblock and it keeps them from even

607
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: considering early retirement. But go out there and crunch the numbers,

608
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 2: see how much it's going to cost you, because yes,

609
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 2: it's going to be expensive. It's in particular if you

610
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 2: haven't been with a company who I mean, there's a

611
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: lot of new companies out there who are covering like

612
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: virtually all of the health care costs of their employees.

613
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: And if that's you, you are in for a rude awakening.

614
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: But for everyone else, you know, I don't know, if

615
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: you've employed by a normal company where you've had to

616
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: flit some of those bills yourself, you might find that

617
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: it's actually not all that more expensive than it was

618
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: being employed.

619
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: But I think, like you said, it might not be

620
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: right now because of the great subsidies for so many

621
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: people on the exchange. But those subsidies could go away,

622
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: and so so much depends on who's in power and

623
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: what sort of legislation pass when it comes to how

624
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: much you got to pay for the health insurance that

625
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: you want. Sure, Yeah, all right, Well, let's talk about

626
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: something else that early retires have to think about, and

627
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: that is sequence of returns risk. So let's say you've

628
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: got your expenses all figured out, you've got enough invested

629
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: to be able to retire, and you can afford to

630
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: spend a little extra, and you can afford now that

631
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: expensive health care policy. Well, it's a bold market and

632
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: your net worth is growing. But the market could just

633
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: as easily cool, and like we saw a stock market

634
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: route in March of twenty twenty, right, and last year

635
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: was pretty rough for investors too, But what if the

636
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: market remained in a bear market holding pattern for a

637
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: few years complicates things, in particular for early retirees who

638
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: are attempting to live off their investment portfolio. And of course, yes,

639
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: the market has returned an average of ten point two

640
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: percent over the past fifty years, but the fact is

641
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: the market is unpredictable in the short term, and you

642
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: might retire at the wrong time into an era of

643
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: low to no growth, which if you're looking at predictions,

644
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: which we don't really we try to stay away from

645
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: predictions most of the time, you're seeing a lot of

646
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: predictions for meager growth in the coming decade, and that

647
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: could be a difficult thing for regular retirees to endure,

648
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: even if they have social Security to provide some income

649
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: mixed with those investments. But if you retire at the

650
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: wrong time, and you're early retiring, you might find yourself

651
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: attempting to draw down four percent of your portfolio a year,

652
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: year after year at an inopportune time, draining some of

653
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: that capital, straining your ability to actually retire.

654
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's right, Yeah, that's sequence of returns risk. Right,

655
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: Imagine you're going to live off of your portfolio over

656
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: the next thirty years, and imagine somewhere within those thirty

657
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: years you're going to have two years in a row

658
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: of returns at negative twenty percent. Well, if you experience

659
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: those two years right after you retire, you're gonna have

660
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: much much less on hand than if those two years

661
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: were to occur at the very tail end of those

662
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: thirty years. It has a massive impact on your lifestyle

663
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: and your ability of the ability of your portfolio to

664
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: hold up over that period of time. And this is

665
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: also the fear that keeps folks handcuffed to their jobs essentially, Right, Like,

666
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: folks say that the market could tank, So I'm just

667
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: gonna work a little bit longer. But at some point

668
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: we have to be able to confidently retire, you know,

669
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: even knowing that we can't predict the future, or even

670
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: knowing that our own health what that's gonna be, or

671
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 2: what the market's gonna do in our first jobless decade

672
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: or you know, first twenty years. For thirty years. But again,

673
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: this is where having just maybe a little bit of

674
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: extra wiggle room and planning for more than just that

675
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: twenty five times your current expenses is gonna be helpful

676
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: because you might not always want to live as frugally

677
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: as you're living now. You might think, well, no, I'm

678
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 2: always gonna want to do the van thing and drive

679
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: around the country. You may not, you know, you might

680
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 2: do it for maybe you'll get the seven year itch,

681
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: like maybe you'll do it for five, six, seven years,

682
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: but at that point it might be something that you

683
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: want to move on from.

684
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: Especially the things that you are okay with in your twenties,

685
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: like I'm not I know, I'm not to brouch forty

686
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: and I love being frugal, but I'm not frugal in

687
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: the same ways that I wasn't my twenties exactly. I'm

688
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: just not willing to travel or to do some of

689
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: the things that I would have done back then to

690
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: save a buck now.

691
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: Exactly, and that you know, you may not need to

692
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: save and invest like a fat fire adherent right like

693
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: where you're just living high on the hog and you've

694
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,479
Speaker 2: got tons of nice expenses that you're accounting for. But

695
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: the lean fire approach is it's kind of scary, it's

696
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: a little more risky from our vantage point.

697
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about something else too that really inhibits

698
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: your ability to retire early. Again, not that it's not possible,

699
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: and not that it's not a decent goal for some people,

700
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: but we're kind of trying to I guess we're like

701
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: steal manning the case against retiring early here right now.

702
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: But a lot of people would say, I want to

703
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: retire early, but I'm literally not old enough to withdraw

704
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: from those retirement accounts yet, which is a big deal.

705
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about investing in those tax advantage

706
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: retirement accounts a reasonable argument, yeah, and so well, how

707
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: am I going to get my money out of these

708
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: things when the government tells me I have to be

709
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: fifty nine and a half, which is still just odd.

710
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 2: Why half? I don't get it.

711
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: But that is the age you need to be in

712
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: order to withdraw funds from those accounts in order to

713
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: tap them without having to pay penalties, right, And that

714
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: makes it even tougher to map out a strategy for

715
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: early retirement while maximizing the most efficient buckets for investing

716
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: for your future. And that's why a whole lot of

717
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: early retirement adherence opt for a strategy that involves wroth accounts,

718
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: so then you can pull those contributions out tax and

719
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: penalty free when a very time nice real estate, because

720
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: that gives you cash flow, not just seeing your investment grow,

721
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: but you're actually making returns on a month month basis.

722
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: Taxable brokerage accounts you don't get the tax benefit, but

723
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: they're to the same extent, but they're more flexible HSA's.

724
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: They're somewhat flexible with maximum tax advantages in addition to

725
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: the regular ole four to one K or four or

726
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: three B that we love as well. There are ways

727
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: to take money out of those tax advantage accounts even

728
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: before you hit retirement ags, but they're not ideal, and

729
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: so coming up with a strategy that allows for additional

730
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: flexibility is key to making early retirement possible. It's not

731
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: as easy as just maxing out your four oh and

732
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: K for a decade and then leaving work, right, you

733
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: have to think about how you're going to be able

734
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: to get the money out in an efficient manner that

735
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: doesn't come back to bite you and eat away at

736
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: the cash that you've so diligently saved up. So now

737
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: I think we've gone through a lot of money questions

738
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: here a lot of the financial aspects of what it

739
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,719
Speaker 1: looks like to retire early and how there's a lot

740
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 1: of stuff you need to think through before you just

741
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: all of a sudden say, yeah, that's my goal, I'm

742
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: going to shoot for it, and you really nilly kind

743
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: of start me entering down that path. You really need

744
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: to kind of have your ducks in a row from

745
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: a money perspective in order to do it well. But

746
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: it's not just that, right, Let's talk about the non

747
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: monetary and personal aspects of approaching early retirement. We'll get

748
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: to some of those right after this.

749
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 2: All right, we are still asking the question is early

750
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 2: retirement a smart goal? In jol We just covered a

751
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: bunch of the different financial implications, some of the different

752
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: financial questions that we need to be asking ourselves. And

753
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 2: we've looked at both sides of the equation. Right, We've

754
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: talked about the income side of the equation, different fluctuations

755
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,439
Speaker 2: in the market and that how that can affect our

756
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: ability to retire early, as well as some of the

757
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: different expenses that we're all going to face. But now

758
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: let's talk about the non monetary side of the earlier

759
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 2: retirement lifestyle. Let's talk through some of those questions, because

760
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: we think it's worth asking a few of these questions

761
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 2: before going all in. One of those is to think

762
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: through your time and how it is that you're going

763
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: to be spending that right, like do you have enough

764
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: hobbies and interests to pursue if work is no longer

765
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: going to be a part of your day to day,

766
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: And so, in an effort to make sure that you

767
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: are prepared potentially for early retirement, we want you to

768
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: start thinking through what your idea day is going to

769
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 2: be like and what you're likely to spend your time doing.

770
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: Friend of the show Wes Moss. He talks about how

771
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 2: the happiest retirees out there, how they have an average

772
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: of three point six core pursuits and these can be

773
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: anything from like volunteering at a local homeless shelter. It

774
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 2: could be playing music, like playing the piano. It could

775
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: be what are working or pickleball? That's the newest one,

776
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: so hot, right, folks right in to the list. And

777
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: he's actually got a core pursuit finder over at a

778
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: site that will link to in our show notes. But

779
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 2: don't expect to easily be able to find and then

780
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 2: work on these pursuits only once you've left your job.

781
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: We think it is important to prioritize them before you

782
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 2: pull the early retirement trigger. We want this process to

783
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: be something that feels more seamless, as opposed to a

784
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: clear partition where all right, that was life when I

785
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 2: was still working, and this was life afterward. We want

786
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: it to be something that feels more just like, more organic,

787
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 2: more blended.

788
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: What you're saying is people aren't just going to turn

789
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,479
Speaker 1: over a whole new leaf and become a new person

790
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: and find awesome new hobbies once they reach retirement age.

791
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: They got to start working on those things now.

792
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, makes me like that to cultivate those interests.

793
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so maybe you will like pickleball when you're retired,

794
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: But have you even gone out to try playing once?

795
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 2: Now?

796
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: I mean if not, Like, I could see myself playing

797
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: pickleball in retirement, but I've not played once yet, and

798
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: so I would want to make sure I gave that

799
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: a thorough go before I all of a sudden assumed

800
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: that I was gonna beat the pickleball court three days

801
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: a week. Makes me think of my mother in law.

802
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: She's retired and they ended up buying just a giant

803
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: RV to drive around in right afterwards, and they realized

804
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. We thought we were going to spend our

805
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: times rving around the country, but we didn't like living

806
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: out of an RV and there that happens to so

807
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: many people. Well, that's why buying a used RV makes

808
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: so much sense, or because that happens to a lot of.

809
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: Folks, or even is like running one exactly given it

810
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 2: a two week ago and seeing how that.

811
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: Works for you exactly. Like think about how you're going

812
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: to spend your time, but don't just think of it

813
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: in abstract terms. You use information from how you spend

814
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: your time now in a non retired state to say like, well,

815
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 1: could I do more of this than I'm current doing.

816
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: But if you're just thinking, oh, I definitely see myself

817
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: doing that, well you don't really know until you've tried.

818
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: And you can picture an ideal lifestyle, but it might

819
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: not be what you think it is, and so you

820
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: have to kind of, yeah, give those things a go before,

821
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: like you said, pulling the trigger altogether and saying I'm

822
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: retired early now I'm going to dive into these that

823
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: is not a great way to pursue it. Another question

824
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: to ask is like, what are my closest friends and

825
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: family going to be doing, because, if you're honest, many

826
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: of them will likely still be working if you opt

827
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 1: to retire, let's say in your thirties or your early forties, right,

828
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: are you going to be happy not going to work

829
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: when the folks you want to spend more time with

830
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: don't have the time and flexibility that you have. Maybe

831
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: you're at the bar, but they're not, and so then

832
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: now you've got a problem because now you're drinking alone,

833
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: and that's not a good thing. I think a lot

834
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: of people envision that they're going to be spending their

835
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: early retirement years with people that they love, but the

836
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: truth is that is harder to come by, right unless

837
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: you're planning to save up enough to pay for their

838
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: early retirement too, which you're probably not. So those are

839
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: the kind of things that need to be considered when

840
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: we're thinking about early retirement, well, like who are we

841
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: going to be spending time with and what are my

842
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: days going to look like. It's not that there aren't

843
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: all sorts of interesting pursuits that you can get into

844
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: as an early retiree. You just have to know what

845
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: they're going to be, and you have to have thought

846
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: through what that's going to look like before you decide

847
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: to put your job and put in your two weeks notice.

848
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah, And I'll say you kind of mentioned this earlier,

849
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: but it seems like we're kind of we're creating an

850
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 2: argument against early retirement. But to kind of flip that

851
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: script a little bit, I think it can be helpful

852
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 2: to maybe change how it is that we think about

853
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: those retirement years as well, because I think the vast

854
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: majority of folks they see like they're working years, they

855
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 2: see that as like the main course, like that's the bulk,

856
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: like that's the feature film part of their life, and

857
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: they see retirement years essentially as like the leftovers. But

858
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: I think it can be helpful if we actually consider,

859
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 2: because what we're talking about here is a long period

860
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: of time, given life expectancy, that we're going to continue living.

861
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: And if we sort of flip that script a little

862
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: bit and then you those quote unquote retirement years as

863
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 2: the main course, I think that could essentially change how

864
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: it is not only that we view relationships, but also

865
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: some of the different hobbies that we pursue. Right Like,

866
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 2: basically I guess what I'm saying is nobody sees leftovers

867
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: as like a good thing except for me. Perhaps I'll

868
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: love leftovers. But if you change how it is that

869
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: you view the you know, the literally we're talking about

870
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: decades of life here, I think that might allow some

871
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: folks to realize, oh well, I think it makes some

872
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 2: of the detriment years seem less daunting essentially, because like

873
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 2: we are talking about a big chunk of time, right, Like,

874
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: although COVID has impacted life expectancy in recent years, like,

875
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: there's still a good chance that healthy how to Money

876
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: listeners are going to live a really long time. When

877
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 2: you look at the actuarial tables, Like, if we're talking

878
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 2: about a healthy sixty five year old couple, there is

879
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 2: a forty six percent chance that one of them is

880
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 2: going to live to the age of ninety five. So

881
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 2: do the math there, ninety five sixty five from ninety five,

882
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: you're talking about three decades. That's thirty years. And you know,

883
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: like that's just what someone who is retiring at the

884
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: quote unquote normal age is going to have to account for.

885
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: Early retirees might have to plan for something like double

886
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 2: that length of time, right, And that only complicates the

887
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: calculations from a financial standpoint. But again, right now we're

888
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 2: kind of talking about the more the mental and psychological

889
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: factors to think through. And again this doesn't mean that

890
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: early retirement is not a worthwhile goal, but it does

891
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: add some important context to the equation. But I do

892
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 2: think that by viewing those thirty years, or if you

893
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 2: are an early retiree and we're talking about sixty years left,

894
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,439
Speaker 2: I still think that there's a lot of life to live, right,

895
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: Like not to discount all the friends that we've made

896
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: up until the point that someone retires, and not to

897
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 2: discount the time that could have been spent pursuing some

898
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: different hobbies before you retire as well. So honestly, it

899
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: makes me think of a gentleman who is sort of

900
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: like a mentor, I guess, but he is a generation

901
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 2: ahead of me. He had kids that were closer to

902
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: my age, and I remember asking him one time if

903
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 2: he felt that the period of time that when he

904
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: had his kids at home, if those were like the

905
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: most important years, and he was like, honestly, he's like,

906
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: it's been awesome being an empty nester, Like having the

907
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: kids away from home the time that my wife and

908
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: I have been able to spend together has been so

909
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: incredibly sweet, and he was still working a little bit.

910
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 2: The work that I'm now able to do has been

911
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: so incredibly fulfilling and gratifying. So I don't know. I

912
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 2: guess I'm just putting an argument out there that the

913
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: time after we quote unquote retire can also be incredibly

914
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: fulfilling if we don't necessarily look at it like this

915
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: left over time. Yeah.

916
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: Well, and I think if we don't think about it

917
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: in just self indulgent terms, which I think a lot

918
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: of people think of retirement in those ways as well

919
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: as opposed to like productive years, it's very like, how

920
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: am I going to entertain myself and enjoy the time

921
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: that I have? And I think if we think about

922
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: it in terms of like service to others, I think

923
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: early retirement or regular retirement can take on new and

924
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: deeper meaning. Right, So totally, And let's talk about transitioning

925
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: into retirement, because I think it's important to mention when

926
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,479
Speaker 1: we talk about early retirement, we're often talking about something

927
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: fairly extreme and feels like an all or nothing sort

928
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: of proposition. Well, I'm either retiring at thirty five, I'm

929
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: just gonna keep going till I'm sixty five. But it

930
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be that, and it doesn't have to

931
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: be just this all or nothing sort of framework. And

932
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: before you decide that you never want to work again

933
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: and that there is no alternative, you'll even consider think

934
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: about easing into retirement instead. And I think that could

935
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: look like cutting back on your hours at work now, right,

936
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: This is actually a trend that's kind of starting to

937
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: happen in general these days. I think people are working

938
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: on average one to three percent less than they were

939
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, which I think is a great thing.

940
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: Like baby step speak, Yeah, exactly, take it back just

941
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: a little bit, work a couple hours less a.

942
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,439
Speaker 2: Week then all right, all right? Yeah.

943
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: And so if you're like, if you're like, I'm really

944
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: interested in this early retirement thing, I don't want to

945
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: like work fifty hours a week until I'm sixty five.

946
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 2: I get that.

947
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: I get that, But why not test out working twenty

948
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: to thirty hours first before you call it quits. You'll

949
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: still have income, which is great, but you'll also have

950
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: extra hours to fool around with, and you'll kind of

951
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: get to see what are my days going to look?

952
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: Like when I have let's say Thursday and Friday. For you,

953
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: I'm only working Monday through Wednesday. It's kind of like

954
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: waiting into the waters of early retirement before you just

955
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: quit your job altogether. And it makes me think of

956
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: my mom, Matt, that's what she did. She's working three

957
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: days a week. She's about to fully retire, but she's

958
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: you know, traditional retirement age. But that kind of helps

959
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: to see, well, how will I spend this day? And

960
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: you're kind of going into it slowly as opposed to

961
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: going from like full on to completely off.

962
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it kind of depends if you were like

963
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 2: weight in, you know, into the shallow wading kind of person,

964
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 2: or if you're more like cannonball off of the diving board.

965
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: You and I, I think it's important to mention this, Like,

966
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: we work half days on Fridays.

967
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 2: So almost forgot it's it's kind of gotten normal for us.

968
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've talked about how maybe at some point

969
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: we would consider doing like no no Fridays at all,

970
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: or maybe half days Thursdays and half days Fridays, and

971
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: so like there's ways in which well, especially it's easier

972
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: when you're self employed, I guess, but it's there are

973
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: a lot of traditional employers who would say, no, we

974
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: still want to keep you around, but you don't want

975
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: to work on Fridays. Sure, it's going to involve a

976
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: cut to your pay. Yeah, But if they don't want

977
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: to lose you, they'll often say they'll sign on the

978
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: dotted line and say, sure, that's fine, that's fine with us.

979
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: But those are the kind of things I think that

980
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: cutting back on those hours can help. You see, well,

981
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: what would I do with that freedom? Am I completely

982
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: lost here? Or am I jones in for more time?

983
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: You know, six months into that experiment?

984
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 2: Totally? Yeah. I think this is why we're such huge

985
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 2: proponents of Coast Fire, because by having done that heavy

986
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 2: lifting early on that Coast Fire gives us options to

987
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 2: then start something like a podcast about money that may

988
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 2: or may not make any money. You know, like five

989
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 2: years ago we were it felt kind of risky, but

990
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: we also would have been totally fine because we had

991
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: set ourselves up in a decent position. Obviously, we've continued

992
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 2: to invest since then, and we are in an even

993
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: better position over the past five years. But essentially, what

994
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: I'm pointing out here is the fact that we've got options,

995
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: and that is absolutely one hundred percent something that we

996
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 2: want everybody to be able to experience. So you're talking

997
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: about cutting back the number of hours we work kind

998
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: of like on a regular basis, but I think looking

999
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: at essentially taking our vacation days, I think that is

1000
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: really important as well. Honestly, this might be like the

1001
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 2: very first up because fewer workers are actually taking time off,

1002
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: and the number of folks who are taking significant chunks

1003
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: of time off for personal enjoyment has been in decline

1004
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: for decades. You know, even with the quote unquote unlimited PTO,

1005
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: like that is becoming a more frequent benefit than.

1006
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: I guess just a dirty trick the employers are offering

1007
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: on there laying it's not cutting it because they know

1008
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: how we react, and they know that unlimited PTO means

1009
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: we're not gonna ta We're gonna do it unless they're

1010
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: guilted into not taking it.

1011
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: Unless there's a culture set of that being the path

1012
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: that you should be following. And so if you say

1013
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 2: that you want to retire early, but you're not willing

1014
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: to even take your vacation days off, and it might

1015
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: not be a great fit for you. You know, at

1016
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 2: least make it a point to take the time off

1017
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 2: that you're given at first and again. Not to point

1018
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: to you and me jaw as like these shining perfect examples,

1019
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 2: but this is something that I'm proud of us for

1020
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 2: improving on because I think, you know, a few years in,

1021
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: like maybe let's say three years ago, we're like, oh,

1022
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 2: the podcast is doing pretty good. We don't. It's it's

1023
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 2: hard to break away from it. It's hard to step

1024
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: away and say, all right, we're gonna let's take a

1025
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 2: week off. Let's take a couple weeks off for Christmas.

1026
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: Let's take a week off, or you know, like a

1027
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: summer beach trip something like that. But I think was

1028
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: it earlier this year We kind of looked at the

1029
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: calendar and we might be taking something close to two

1030
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 2: months off by the end of this year, not all

1031
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: at once, but kind of scattered around here and there.

1032
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 2: I guess I'm tooting our own horn here. But I

1033
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 2: think that's admirable and I think it's something that's worth

1034
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: working towards, not just from us.

1035
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: You're not going to get there overnight. It's technical long

1036
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: time to get there, but I think it's a good goal.

1037
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm a little nervous about this year, how much time

1038
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:28,919
Speaker 1: we're trying to get off, but I'm also excited about

1039
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: it too.

1040
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think it's good though, because we are

1041
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 2: working on it. Obviously, we've worked on it from a

1042
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 2: financial standpoint, right, we have prepared and we are hopefully

1043
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: in a financial position to be able to handle that.

1044
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: But it also takes practice on an internal mental level

1045
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 2: as well, even aside from the finances of it. From

1046
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 2: a mental personal standpoint, do we have the guts? Do

1047
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 2: we have what it takes to step away from work?

1048
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 2: And I know that sounds silly to say, but I

1049
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 2: think it takes more courage than people realize, because oftentimes,

1050
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 2: when you enjoy your work, it can be so easy

1051
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: for us to find ourselves like gravitating back towards it,

1052
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: essentially as opposed to pursuing some of those other things

1053
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 2: that we have identified as being so important.

1054
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: Especially when we didn't grow up in a culture like

1055
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: Australia where they take like two month holidays like every

1056
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: single year, which is which is awesome, mates, but that's

1057
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: just not the culture that we live in here, and

1058
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: so we feel, I think guilty when we take our

1059
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: vacation time or we feel guilty by saying, hey, listen,

1060
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: I want to work thirty or so week and not forty.

1061
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: Those are the kind of things that in the US culture,

1062
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: those are not normal, But I think they're worth pursuing

1063
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: instead of saying it has to be all or none.

1064
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: These are like in between steps that people can and

1065
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: should consider and take before they get to that point.

1066
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: Totally for that mental reason, but also for financial purposes too.

1067
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: And I think many retirements are just another option, like

1068
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: consider taking a full month off or longer, maybe a

1069
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: few months. And especially with the fact that people are

1070
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: working remotely now in such large numbers, this is something

1071
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: people can do. They can work from abroad and take

1072
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: weeks off while they're abroad and get a taste of

1073
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: what it would look like to live somewhere else, if

1074
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: that's what they're acting or Friend of the show coach Carson,

1075
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: he describes many retirement like this, and I really like

1076
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: this what he says. He says, any extended break that

1077
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: alters the rhythm and ingrain patterns of your work and

1078
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: home life, which is a great approach, Like throw a

1079
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 1: wrench in things like it and give them many retirement

1080
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: a shot, you know, and more companies are offering things

1081
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,919
Speaker 1: like sabbaticals for employees who have been there a number

1082
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: of years. You might not be able to get paid

1083
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: for it, but who cares. Like, if you're getting to

1084
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: that financial position where you think you're ready for early retirement,

1085
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: take the sabbatical first, and kind of even if it's unpaid,

1086
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: give it a shot, because early retirement's even more complicated

1087
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: than a two month stint off, right, and a shorter

1088
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: endeavor makes sense to me. I think before you go

1089
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: all in and you say early retirement lifestyles for me, well,

1090
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 1: how do you know? And have you taken the approach?

1091
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: Have you tried it out yet? And we'll link to

1092
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: one of a blog actually that Coach Carson wrote about

1093
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: many retirements. I think is really helpful for people who

1094
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: are considering one.

1095
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah, So what is it ever since you mentioned

1096
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: the Australian and you said mates, so after high school,

1097
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 2: what is it called when they take essentially take a

1098
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 2: year off when they'd like travel the world? Rump Springer, No,

1099
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. I don't know, like there's there's something different,

1100
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: there's a term for it. But but yeah, I mean

1101
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: I agree. I think there's a lot of different life

1102
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 2: experiences that we should be opening ourselves up to. Whether

1103
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 2: it's after a career of having worked for multiple decades

1104
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 2: and it's just time for us to start testing the

1105
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: waters a little bit and saying, oh, is this something

1106
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 2: that I want to pursue or achieve sooner or even

1107
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 2: you know, like right after high school. I don't think

1108
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 2: it would be a bad idea to travel the world

1109
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,879
Speaker 2: and see all that is out there before you sign

1110
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 2: yourself up for four years of indebtedness. Uh, it's a

1111
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: high cost of gap yere. Yeah, take a little gap here,

1112
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: gap year, that's the that's the word. Yeah.

1113
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: So I thought you were talking about what Australians do

1114
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know what they do. No,

1115
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: oh you're talking about it's just yeah, generally speaking, you

1116
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: take year, you take a gap year? Yeah, Well, I

1117
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: mean and well I took three months off I quick.

1118
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: I got my first job in radio. I did it

1119
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: for six months and then I was like, you're not

1120
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: really working out for and so I quit.

1121
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 2: You casey, you know, you're probably you're you're getting to

1122
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 2: the end of your bank account basically, right.

1123
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: Well, well, the pay was not very high, but I'd

1124
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: saved up like five grand and I went on a

1125
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: three month trip around the United States.

1126
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 2: I mean you're three months. Oh? I thought you said

1127
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: the three months didn't work out. No, the three months

1128
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 2: was great, Okay, it was the job that wasn't working out.

1129
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 2: I was like this, I don't really want to be

1130
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 2: here a buch longer. And so but I'm young enough.

1131
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 2: I can find something else when I'm done with this,

1132
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: and I can live so cheaply in the meantime that

1133
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter, and that three months well worth it.

1134
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: I've got the best memories from that. So I don't

1135
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: want people to think that this is like some sort

1136
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 2: of like pro work until you die episode.

1137
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: And I hope that we've come across pretty clearly in

1138
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: that regard that you and I like, I'm planning to

1139
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: retire at some point, probably about to turn forty. I'm

1140
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: not going to retire like in my.

1141
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 2: Jels like I'm not gonna live forever, not gonna retire.

1142
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: Anytime soon though, but taking these interim approach, at least

1143
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: I think for you and me, Matt, that makes more

1144
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: sense for us. It's like, yeah, let's take a significant

1145
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 1: amount of time off during the year. Yeah, let's do

1146
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: half day Fridays, and but let's also still have meaningful

1147
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: work that we enjoy to do with part of our lives.

1148
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: So I don't know, it's all about kind of finding balance.

1149
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's not going to look different for everybody

1150
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: else totally. Yeah, Because I mean so early retirement is

1151
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: going to attract a certain crowd. I think for some

1152
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: that goal is going to be incredibly enticing. We're all

1153
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: for increasing your savings rate. We're all for ramping up

1154
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: your financial margins so that you are going to have

1155
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 1: more flexibility and more choice in your life. But quitting

1156
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: work all together like cold turkey right about now, even

1157
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 1: though we likely could, that doesn't sound all that great,

1158
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, like we've chosen instead to pursue something that

1159
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: we love instead of opting out of work altogether. And

1160
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 1: so we wanted to talk about this today because we

1161
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: are trying to encourage everyone out there to choose your

1162
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 1: financial goals wisely, because I think they're going to impact

1163
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: how it is that you live life now, because like

1164
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: early retirement, it might make the most sense for you.

1165
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: I want you to think about some of the alternatives

1166
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: that will make your life awesome potentially in the here now,

1167
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: before you've dedicated your life to a goal that might

1168
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: not actually make you happy. And you know the other

1169
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 1: thing too, If you pursue early retirement while you neglect

1170
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: your health and relationships, it's not going to be worth it.

1171
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 1: That's something as we have friends who are in the

1172
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: fire space, that is something that they have continued to

1173
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: come back to. They've said that if they could do

1174
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: it all over again, they would possibly continue working, holding

1175
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: the job that they had with all the great benefits,

1176
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,919
Speaker 1: but that they would have prioritized different things like taking

1177
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 1: care of their body, meaningfully investing in some different relationships

1178
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: along the way, as opposed to that nose to the

1179
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: grindstone mentality when a lot of them were working fifty

1180
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: sixty plus hours to achieve this goal in a shorter timeframe,

1181
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: which led to unhealth for a lot of those working years.

1182
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: And so I think that is one of the trade

1183
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: offs that a lot of people trying to pursue early

1184
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: retirement end up making. And so those interim years until

1185
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 1: you reach that point, they become kind of a slog,

1186
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: They become kind of hard to remember. Maybe you didn't

1187
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: get to enjoy yourself maybe you missed out on a

1188
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: fun trip with friends, because no, no, no, all my

1189
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: extra money's got to go into my four one K

1190
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: and HSA, right, because my goal is retiring early. But

1191
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: I think if you take that hard nosed approach to

1192
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: early retirement, I think you can retire early and do

1193
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: it well. But I think if you take that hard

1194
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: nosed approach to retirement to early retirement, you're likely going

1195
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 1: to have missed out on a lot of great stuff

1196
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: along the way, exactly.

1197
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 2: And those are years that you may never be able

1198
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 2: to get back, you know, like youth and flexibility and

1199
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 2: other And you and me we're in the ability to

1200
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: go without a whole lot of sleepy as saying this

1201
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 2: as somebody who hate to have their kid wake up.

1202
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 2: We're already did the more times in the middle of

1203
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 2: the night.

1204
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: Last night, you and me, we're already the point in

1205
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: our lives where we can look back on some of

1206
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 1: those years with fondness, and it's like we're removed enough

1207
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: from youth that I look back and I'm like, oh,

1208
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: those were good times, and I'm glad that I wasn't

1209
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: like hold up in an office working too much, trying

1210
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: to pursue this goal, like to dedicated to the cause

1211
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: of special independence, and it's not that like so, like

1212
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: you said, frugality and investing and developing more margin in

1213
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: your life aren't important. But man, if it means that

1214
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: you're missing out on the rest of the good stuff,

1215
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: then that to me, I think that's a mistake.

1216
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 2: Exactly totally agree. Man, Let's get to the beer. You

1217
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 2: and I we enjoyed a Ferris which is a coffee

1218
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 2: Imperial stout. This is a beer by New Park Brewing.

1219
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: Another one sent to us by Matthew. Thank you so

1220
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 2: much for sending this one our way. Joel. What were

1221
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 2: your thoughts on this one?

1222
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: So this one was roasty and a little bit bitter,

1223
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 1: which I kind of like because it was made with

1224
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: coffee from Jay Renee. Okay, I guess that's the coffee

1225
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: roaster that's there in West Hartford. Okay, Yeah, So I

1226
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: would say this was a really good, a really good stout.

1227
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: And some people really like the sweeter, milk style stouts.

1228
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: I prefer kind of a more bitter coffee stout. So

1229
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: this one's up my alley with a.

1230
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 2: Little more pep in the stuff. It's almost like an espresso.

1231
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of like an espresso style coffee coffee stout,

1232
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: So I dug it, what about you?

1233
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was pretty so not espresso from like in

1234
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 2: a citide bite kind of way, because I would say

1235
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 2: that this drink really smooth, like it almost was like

1236
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 2: a milk stout. Had a nice creamy mouthfeel too, like

1237
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: there was some lactose in there or something. Yeah, but yeah,

1238
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 2: really well balanced. Definitely enjoyed this one. And did you

1239
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 2: pick up on the label? By the way, this was

1240
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 2: called Ferris. Do you understand the graphic? Nope? Have ever

1241
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 2: seen like magnets when they interact with like metal shavings.

1242
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: So Ferris is like the symbol for iron, right, Oh yeah,

1243
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 2: And so I think it's supposed to be like the

1244
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 2: way that metal or iron reacts to magnetic fields. Right,

1245
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 2: science nerd, you get it, you get it. You're the

1246
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: bill Ny out of money, Matthew. At first, I was like,

1247
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 2: what is on this label? And then when we read

1248
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 2: the name of the beer, I was like, oh, Ferris

1249
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 2: like iron, not like Tim Ferriss spelled differently. Anyway, We

1250
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 2: hope that you've enjoyed this episode, if you got a

1251
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 2: lot of value at this one and you haven't yet

1252
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 2: left us a review over at Apple Podcasts or honestly

1253
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 2: even over at Spotify. The make it so easy, just

1254
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 2: mash They got the five stars right there, you know,

1255
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 2: go all the way to the right. Include all five

1256
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 2: stars if you don't mind. But it really does help

1257
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 2: us to get the word out, helps others to learn

1258
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 2: about different personal finance concepts like early retirement. We'll make

1259
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: sure to have links to some of the different resources

1260
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 2: we mentioned during this episode up on our show notes

1261
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 2: at how tomoney dot com. No doubt.

1262
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,439
Speaker 1: All right, that's gonna do it for this episode, would Matt?

1263
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: Until next time, Best Friends, I'm best Friends Out