WEBVTT - From the Vault: Eggnog

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. It is

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas Eve for many of you, and so we're off

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<v Speaker 1>this week. Instead of a new episode, we have an

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<v Speaker 1>older episode, this one originally published twelve fifteen, twenty twenty two.

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<v Speaker 1>It is our invention style episode on eggnog. Get into

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<v Speaker 1>the history of agnog and a little bit into the

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<v Speaker 1>science of eggnog as well. So let's pour up a

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<v Speaker 1>glass and sip it down.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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<v Speaker 1>is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. It's that time

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<v Speaker 1>of year again, and by that time, I mean it

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<v Speaker 1>is the holidays. We're knee deep, perhaps waste deep in

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<v Speaker 1>the holidays, and there's no going back. We might as

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<v Speaker 1>well just push forward at this point, like it's just

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<v Speaker 1>as much just as much effort to keep going as

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<v Speaker 1>it would be to turn back. So once more, we

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<v Speaker 1>have a holiday episode for you. It's actually going to

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<v Speaker 1>be our third installment in our Holiday Invention series, where

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<v Speaker 1>we more or less give the Invention treatment to various

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<v Speaker 1>holiday decorations, traditions, and toys. This year, we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>be looking in earnest at eggnog.

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<v Speaker 3>Is eggnog an invention? Sure, we can stretch the definition.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's okay.

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<v Speaker 1>I think so. I mean, we did an invention, a

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<v Speaker 1>full blown invention episode about the Matai, which we you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we had Jeff Beach bombarry on as a guest to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about that. Eggnog is not something that occurs naturally

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<v Speaker 1>in the world. It must be made at some point.

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<v Speaker 1>There had to be a first or something like a first,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, we'll get into that. And it's one

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<v Speaker 1>of those things that has a number of different customs

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<v Speaker 1>and cold details surrounding it. Now, Joe, I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 1>what your relationship with eggnog happens to be, because I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know that we've ever really spoken about this. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think we've had eggnog together before, not that I recall,

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<v Speaker 1>but my family's general approach is originally buy a carton

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<v Speaker 1>of almond nog each year, largely for our son because

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<v Speaker 1>he gets super into it. And if I have a

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<v Speaker 1>chance to visit a like an upscale cocktail place or

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<v Speaker 1>a nice restaurant, then I will jump at the opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to order an eggnog. If they have one on the menu.

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<v Speaker 1>In the past, I've made it down to New Orleans

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<v Speaker 1>for the start of beach Bumberry Sippings Santa Festivities at

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<v Speaker 1>beach Bumberry's Latitude twenty nine. They also have pop ups

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<v Speaker 1>all over the place, and they'll generally have at least

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<v Speaker 1>one holiday teaki beverage on there that is at least

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<v Speaker 1>eggnog esque.

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<v Speaker 3>In form I'm picturing piles of crushed or pellet ice

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<v Speaker 3>with kind of a frothy, creamy rye about them, and

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<v Speaker 3>some nutmeg sprinkled over top.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, the nutmeg, as we'll discuss, is pretty essential.

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<v Speaker 1>So I did make it down there this year, but

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<v Speaker 1>I did make it over to a tiki bar in

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<v Speaker 1>our area, Decatur's Sos t Bar, and I enjoyed a

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<v Speaker 1>frozen take on a classic eggnog. Generally a rich drink,

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<v Speaker 1>though so once twice three times per year max. That's

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<v Speaker 1>generally enough from me. Uh huh. Now. Before we came

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<v Speaker 1>in here, though, I mentioned to my wife that I

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<v Speaker 1>was about to record the eggnog episode, and she was

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<v Speaker 1>kind enough to provide me with an entire glass of

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<v Speaker 1>eggnog here for me to consume during this episode. The

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<v Speaker 1>listeners at home. You'll have to take my word for it, Joe.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you can see it on the video feed here.

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<v Speaker 3>Wait, is this full booze eggnog?

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<v Speaker 1>Or well you might well presume that, but I couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>possibly comment. Yes, creamy, rich, hint of.

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<v Speaker 3>Nutmeg, beautiful, I have no eggnog in the house. A cute,

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<v Speaker 3>cute Joe Peshi and Home Alone saying eggnog, eggnog dressed

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<v Speaker 3>as a cop like eggnog is the most disgusting substance

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<v Speaker 3>on Earth. And you know what, as a child, that

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<v Speaker 3>was pretty much where my head was at. I was like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>Joe Peshi in Home Alone is correct. I found the

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<v Speaker 3>idea revolting, not just revolting, I think, I I think

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<v Speaker 3>I probably found it borderline nauseating to think of a

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<v Speaker 3>drink made out of eggs. Something changed over the years.

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<v Speaker 3>Now I find it quite delightful.

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<v Speaker 1>So was the eggs that threw you off?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well you're gonna drink eggs. I don't know. So

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<v Speaker 3>I think about eggs. There's something that, you know, I

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<v Speaker 3>liked eggs scrambled like they make them at the cracker barrel.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I'm thinking of like a thick, yellow curd

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<v Speaker 3>like substance, and always in savory context. I mean, I know,

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<v Speaker 3>obviously now that eggs are used in all kinds of

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<v Speaker 3>baking and sweet contexts, but that's not how I thought

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<v Speaker 3>about them when I was a kid. So the idea

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<v Speaker 3>of drink thinking a sweet egg based beverage was absolutely

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<v Speaker 3>vile to my brain.

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<v Speaker 1>I can understand that. I mean, especially even the name

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<v Speaker 1>is a bit potentially off putting. It's very forward with

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<v Speaker 1>the egg. What you were about to drink contains eggs,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the nog also can throw one for a curve.

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<v Speaker 1>I do like some of the archaic spellings of eggnog

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<v Speaker 1>that I've encountered researching this episode. Oftentimes the way we

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<v Speaker 1>encounter it now it's egg n og, but some of

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<v Speaker 1>these other spellings will be egg n ogg. I like

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<v Speaker 1>the double g's occurring in both parts of the world.

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<v Speaker 3>That's just symmetry. That's good branding.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, now, before we proceed, I guess we should go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead and drive home exactly what eggnog is. We've alluded

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<v Speaker 1>to it a little bit already, but technically it's a

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<v Speaker 1>milk egg drink or a milk egg punch and we've

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<v Speaker 1>of course reached the points as a civilization where you

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<v Speaker 1>can have something that is identified as a nog without

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<v Speaker 1>the presence of egg or dairy. But historically this is

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<v Speaker 1>the realm from which this beverage arises.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, So you're you mentioned almond nog. I guess that

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<v Speaker 3>is equivalent in the same way that you might have

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<v Speaker 3>almond milk. It is a substitute for milk.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, though I guess it's even more like some people

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<v Speaker 1>get up in arms, especially the dairy industry. I know

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<v Speaker 1>about things that are not milk calling themselves milk. And

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<v Speaker 1>even more to the point, I guess something like a

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<v Speaker 1>soy nog or an almond nog is going to have

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<v Speaker 1>neither eggs nor dairy, and so it is even further removed.

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<v Speaker 1>But yet it's still very much in the spirit of

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<v Speaker 1>of of the classic nog. So I think it more

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<v Speaker 1>than qualifies.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, nog is a thick, creamy, sweet drink.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, it's a state of mind. It's it's it's a

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<v Speaker 1>holiday tradition. Now, one of the sources I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>refer back to several times in this episode is the

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<v Speaker 1>excellent book Imbibe exclamation Point by David Wandriche, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a text that we've referenced in the show in the past.

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<v Speaker 1>It is one of, if not the best books you

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<v Speaker 1>can pick up on the history of the American cocktail.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a great book. It cites, among many others,

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<v Speaker 1>the legendary professor Jerry Thomas, who lived eighteen thirty through

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen eighty five, the New Orleans bartender who wrote the

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<v Speaker 1>Seminole Bartender's Guide and helped popularize cocktail drinking in general.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we're go into more depth on this in

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<v Speaker 1>an older episode or episodes that we did together on Mixology.

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<v Speaker 3>I think we ended up talking about absinthe a lot

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<v Speaker 3>in those.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that would make sense. And I know Jerry Thomas

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<v Speaker 1>also comes up in the recent episode on ice the

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<v Speaker 1>interview that I did. But according to Wondrich, basic milk

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<v Speaker 1>punches go back to the late sixteen hundreds and to

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<v Speaker 1>give you an example of what a milk punch consists of,

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<v Speaker 1>and again this is not an egg milk punch. This

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<v Speaker 1>is just a milk punch. Wondrich includes a recipe from

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<v Speaker 1>Jerry Thomas. Jerry Thomas would have you know, brought up

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<v Speaker 1>together bunch of these different recipes for drinks and put

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<v Speaker 1>them in his own book at the time. This particular

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<v Speaker 1>recipe from Jerry Thomas calls for sugar water, brandy, rum,

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<v Speaker 1>and shaved ice, A little nutmeg goes on top, and

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<v Speaker 1>Wandritch includes a quote from This is an eighteen seventy

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<v Speaker 1>three quote from the Brooklyn Eagle that states that this

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<v Speaker 1>punch was quote the surest thing in the world to

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<v Speaker 1>get drunk on, and so fearfully drunk that you won't

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<v Speaker 1>know whether you are a cow yourself or some other

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<v Speaker 1>foolish thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Hmmm, that's that's good.

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<v Speaker 1>No.

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<v Speaker 3>One thing I have to point out is that when

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<v Speaker 3>you listed the ingredients, you did not list milk. So

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<v Speaker 3>I assume these are the things that are added to

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<v Speaker 3>the milk.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, okay, yeah. The milk would would also be

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<v Speaker 1>be an important part of this. So already we're kind

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<v Speaker 1>of in the territory of what we think of when

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<v Speaker 1>we think about eggnog, but of course there are no

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<v Speaker 1>eggs there now. When it comes to eggnog itself. Thomas

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<v Speaker 1>was very much of the opinion that eggnog was quote

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<v Speaker 1>a beverage of American origin, and Wondrich states that quote

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<v Speaker 1>the drink's earliest mentions come from a seventeen eighty eight

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<v Speaker 1>Philadelphia newspaper, and all the other mentions are American, and

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<v Speaker 1>if early European travelers to the United States viewed it

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<v Speaker 1>as one of the novelties Americans were inflicting on the

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<v Speaker 1>art of drinking. By the eighteen sixties, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>drink of comfortable middle age with a wide, if strictly

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<v Speaker 1>seasonal popularity. When Thomas added that in the North quote

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<v Speaker 1>it is a favorite of all seasons, he was certainly

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<v Speaker 1>overstating the case.

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<v Speaker 3>So you bring up that mention in the seventeen eighty

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<v Speaker 3>eight newspaper, and this name drop of eggnog as a

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<v Speaker 3>recipe is also referenced in a great source I found

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<v Speaker 3>that was aimed at unearthing the etymological history of egnog,

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<v Speaker 3>because it's obvious why the word egg is in the name.

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<v Speaker 3>There are eggs in it, But what exactly is anog? Could,

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<v Speaker 3>as the Simpsons propose, do you equally whip up a

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<v Speaker 3>cauldron of corn nog?

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<v Speaker 1>Cornog sounds kind of delicious, like it brings to mind

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<v Speaker 1>like corn puddings.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it occurs in the Simpsons episode with the Hurricane,

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<v Speaker 3>when the stores are there's a run on the quickie

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<v Speaker 3>mart and the only things left on the shelves are

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<v Speaker 3>corn nog and wadded beef. But anyway, diving into the

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<v Speaker 3>history and etymology of eggnog or corn nog whatever, what

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<v Speaker 3>have you? Any nogs? My source here is a December

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<v Speaker 3>two thousand and nine article called the Origins of Eggnog

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<v Speaker 3>Holiday Grog by the American linguist and language columnist Ben Zimmer,

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<v Speaker 3>who is brother of the excellent science writer Karl Zimmer,

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<v Speaker 3>who's been a guest on.

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<v Speaker 1>The show before Huh Crazy.

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<v Speaker 3>So here's what Ben Zimmer says about nog. The word

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<v Speaker 3>noog first shows up as a regional term in England,

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<v Speaker 3>specifically in the region of East Anglia, so it's the

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<v Speaker 3>eastern part of the country containing Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire,

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<v Speaker 3>and it referred that term. They are referred to a

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<v Speaker 3>type of beer. We know this because of a letter

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<v Speaker 3>written from the County of Norfolk in the year sixteen

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<v Speaker 3>ninety three by a man named Humphrey Prideaux, who described

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<v Speaker 3>quote a bottle of old strong beer, which in this

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<v Speaker 3>country they call nog. So nog is high gravity beer.

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<v Speaker 3>It's strong stuff, but to take one step back, why

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<v Speaker 3>would the East Anglians call strong beer nog? Zimmer identifies

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<v Speaker 3>a couple of hypotheses here. One is that it comes

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<v Speaker 3>from the word noggin, which we today think of as

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<v Speaker 3>antiquated slang for head for your head. But before that

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<v Speaker 3>nogin meant a small mug or a small drink of spirits.

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<v Speaker 3>So perhaps noggin was shorter, was shortened to nog, and

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<v Speaker 3>it came to refer to the beer inside the mug

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<v Speaker 3>instead of the mug itself. And we do that kind

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<v Speaker 3>of metonymy with words today like did you have wine? Oh,

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<v Speaker 3>I drank two glasses. You're not saying you literally drank

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<v Speaker 3>the glass. The glasses mean the wine inside the glass, right.

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<v Speaker 3>But another idea is that the word nog for strong

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<v Speaker 3>beer comes from a Scottish word nug or nuged ale,

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<v Speaker 3>which means ale that you heat up by sticking a

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<v Speaker 3>hot poker in it, which is funny enough to imagine

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<v Speaker 3>in itself, but I can also see how that would

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<v Speaker 3>correspond to a drink with strong alcohol alcohol content, because

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<v Speaker 3>drinks with higher alcohol content are often said to taste

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<v Speaker 3>warm or even to burn.

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<v Speaker 1>Hmmm, yeah, this is this is interesting. It brings to mind,

0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, the images of some of these older drinks

0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.440
<v Speaker 1>where you'd you would you would stick the hot poker

0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.800
<v Speaker 1>or some sort of hot metal into it. I think

0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.280
<v Speaker 1>there's a scene in the excellent TV series The Nick

0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.559
<v Speaker 1>where you see some of the characters getting a drink

0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:58.280
<v Speaker 1>of this fashion.

0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:03.000
<v Speaker 3>M Okay, So so far, we've got the idea that

0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.400
<v Speaker 3>you start with either a little mug called a noggin

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.800
<v Speaker 3>or a type of beer warmed with a hot poker

0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 3>called a nug And somehow one of these terms gets

0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.920
<v Speaker 3>poured it over into this East Anglian word nog, which

0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.560
<v Speaker 3>means strong beer. But how does that actually get connected

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.959
<v Speaker 3>to the sweet, milky, eggy drink we are familiar with.

0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.960
<v Speaker 3>We don't know for sure, but the link in the

0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.680
<v Speaker 3>chain seems to be alcohol. Because while you can buy

0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.080
<v Speaker 3>kid friendly nog in the dairy issle these days, everything

0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.640
<v Speaker 3>I've been reading suggests that early eggnog was boozy. That

0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 3>was a primary characteristic of what the noog was. It

0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.440
<v Speaker 3>had a lot of alcohol in it.

0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, that's exactly what I saw in all of

0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 1>my research. Nobody's talking about eggnog is something that is

0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.959
<v Speaker 1>then spiked it is inherently spiked.

0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 3>And Zimmer reports that a Maryland clergyman named Jonathan Bouchet

0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.520
<v Speaker 3>is alleged to have written the first known reference to

0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:04.080
<v Speaker 3>eggnog a poem in seventeen seventy five, but this poem

0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.760
<v Speaker 3>was not published until about thirty years later, so we

0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 3>don't know when it was actually written for sure. But

0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.400
<v Speaker 3>the relevant section of the poem goes like this, fog

0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.200
<v Speaker 3>DRAMs in the morn or better still eggnog. This is

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.680
<v Speaker 3>nog with two g's at night hot suppings and at

0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 3>midday grog my palate can regale. So you see the

0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:30.000
<v Speaker 3>context here is fully alcoholic grog refers to a spirit

0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.960
<v Speaker 3>or alcoholic beverage. Then there's that line, fog DRAMs in

0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 3>the morn or better still eggnog. A dram usually refers

0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 3>to a small drink of whiskey, and according to Miriam Webster,

0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:47.120
<v Speaker 3>fog DRAMs are quote DRAMs resorted to on the pretense

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 3>of their protecting from the danger of fog. I'm sorry, boss,

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.000
<v Speaker 3>I had to have another whiskey before work, or the

0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:58.840
<v Speaker 3>fog could have killed me on the way here.

0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.640
<v Speaker 1>All right, Yeah, this is making sense. Is an early

0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.280
<v Speaker 1>morning drink though, because you get your fog protection, you

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.480
<v Speaker 1>get a couple of eggs in there. Maybe you know

0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 1>this is a breakfast that you're drinking down exactly.

0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.880
<v Speaker 3>So Bouchet may have written that in seventy seventy five.

0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.160
<v Speaker 3>It's hard to say for sure, but according to Zimmer,

0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.320
<v Speaker 3>the earliest at rock solid references to eggnog where we

0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.080
<v Speaker 3>know the date of their publication, appear in a handful

0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.640
<v Speaker 3>of newspapers in the year seventeen eighty eight, as you

0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 3>mentioned earlier. Now one is a March seventeen eighty eight

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.480
<v Speaker 3>report in the New Jersey Journal, which and I love

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.480
<v Speaker 3>that this is what some newspaper articles consisted of at

0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.040
<v Speaker 3>the time. It says, a young man with a cormorant

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 3>appetite meaning like gluttonous, A young man with a cormorant

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 3>appetite voraciously devoured last week at Connecticut farms, thirty raw eggs,

0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 3>a glass of eggnog, and another of brandy sling.

0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, is this what newspapers were back in the day?

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Did you have like a gluttony page? Fore you're like,

0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 1>what's everybody overeating in New Jersey?

0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 3>Stop the presses. We've got to get this story. This

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.760
<v Speaker 3>hot story about the guy who ate thirty eggs in there. Okay,

0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.480
<v Speaker 3>so whatever eggnog is at the time, he had some

0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 3>Another article is from October seventeen eighty eight in the

0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:24.720
<v Speaker 3>Independent Gazetteer of Philadelphia, where a writer was complaining about

0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 3>an upset stomach and wrote, quote, when wine and beer,

0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 3>punch and eggnog meat instantly ensues a.

0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.400
<v Speaker 1>Quarrel, there's wisdom to that.

0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.800
<v Speaker 3>I think, Yeah, I've only ever heard the liquor before

0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 3>beer kind of thing. I've never heard it taken out

0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 3>to four different things with like punch and eggnog in there.

0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, we were looking back at a time when

0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.240
<v Speaker 1>drinking was a little more robust throughout the country.

0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 3>I think. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I love the fact

0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.160
<v Speaker 3>that newspapers not only used to report on what some

0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.640
<v Speaker 3>guy aded a form, but also what gave me an

0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:06.080
<v Speaker 3>upset tummy. So it sounds like an alcoholic beverage known

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.600
<v Speaker 3>as eggnog was in common parlance in the colonies and

0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:14.000
<v Speaker 3>the young United States in the late eighteenth century. But

0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.520
<v Speaker 3>Zimmer also documents how an early example of eggnog was

0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.280
<v Speaker 3>associated with Christmas celebration by citing a piece in the

0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 3>Virginia Chronicle from January seventeen ninety three, which reads as follows.

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:32.359
<v Speaker 3>On last Christmas Eve, several gentlemen met at Northampton Courthouse

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.600
<v Speaker 3>and spent the evening in mirth and festivity when eggnog

0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 3>was the principal liquor used by the company. After they

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.679
<v Speaker 3>had indulged pretty freely in this beverage, a gentleman in

0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.840
<v Speaker 3>the company offered a bet that not one of the

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:50.119
<v Speaker 3>party could write four verses extempore, which should be rhyme

0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.480
<v Speaker 3>and sense. Okay, He's like, we're so drunk, I bet

0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.199
<v Speaker 3>none of you can write four lines of poetry that

0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.840
<v Speaker 3>will make sense and rhyme. So what do they come

0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:00.320
<v Speaker 3>on up with?

0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Will?

0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:05.480
<v Speaker 3>One guy belts out the following 'tis eggnog now, whose

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:10.199
<v Speaker 3>golden streams dispense far richer treasures to the ravished sense

0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 3>the muse from wine derives a transient glare, but Eggnog's

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 3>drafts afford her solid fare. So move over, wine. The

0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.120
<v Speaker 3>muses are no longer interested in you now they will

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.480
<v Speaker 3>only be singing to people who are chug and agnog.

0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Eggnog doesn't seem to have a personification, though, like there's

0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.879
<v Speaker 1>no like Satyr of eggnog.

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:35.399
<v Speaker 3>Right, the Dionysus of eggnog.

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I suppose it's you know, he was before its time.

0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 1>I think he would have approved of eggnog, especially based

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.880
<v Speaker 1>on these historical references to agnog.

0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.120
<v Speaker 3>So do we know exactly what they were putting in

0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.560
<v Speaker 3>eggnog at the time. Well, there's a book from seventeen

0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.800
<v Speaker 3>ninety nine called Travels through the States of North America

0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 3>and the Provinces of Upper and Lower Canada during the

0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.440
<v Speaker 3>years seventy ninety five ninety six ninety seven by an

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:06.840
<v Speaker 3>Irish writer and explorer named Isaac Weld, And this passage

0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.159
<v Speaker 3>actually reminds me of earlier when you were citing I

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.119
<v Speaker 3>think David Wondrich who said that sometimes people from Europe

0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.400
<v Speaker 3>might encounter eggnog and think, oh what, you know, what

0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.760
<v Speaker 3>crimes they're committing against a drinking culture here in the Americas.

0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:24.720
<v Speaker 3>And I wonder if there's a little bit of that

0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.199
<v Speaker 3>kind of raised eyebrow going on in this passage. But

0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.080
<v Speaker 3>we'll see what you think. So Weld is writing about

0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:34.359
<v Speaker 3>a stop at an inn near Baltimore, Maryland, where he writes, quote,

0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.480
<v Speaker 3>several travelers had stopped at the same house that I

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.479
<v Speaker 3>did the first night I was on the road, and

0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:43.280
<v Speaker 3>we all breakfasted together preparatory to setting out the next morning.

0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.639
<v Speaker 3>The American travelers, before they pursued their journey, took a

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:51.760
<v Speaker 3>hearty draft each. According to custom of eggnog, a mixture

0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:57.199
<v Speaker 3>composed of new milk, eggs, rum, and sugar beat up together.

0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:02.639
<v Speaker 3>So eggnog it should be heavy, suite, exploding with alcohol,

0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.720
<v Speaker 3>drunk in large quantities in the morning before setting out

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.119
<v Speaker 3>on a long journey.

0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is I mean it really it forces you

0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.680
<v Speaker 1>to rethink egnog because I think a lot of people

0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 1>are probably like like me, You grew up exposed to again,

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.800
<v Speaker 1>the grocery store eggnog, and there's this kind of sense

0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.640
<v Speaker 1>that egnog is this drink for everybody. Eggnog's this drink

0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.600
<v Speaker 1>for kids. And as you get older, then you're perhaps

0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>in a situation where you can have the eggnog with

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:34.520
<v Speaker 1>something added to it, eggnog plus you know, if you

0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:40.119
<v Speaker 1>like this. But the historical truth of egnog is no,

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.560
<v Speaker 1>this is the thing that the really drunken adults are

0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:45.600
<v Speaker 1>having sometimes first thing in the morning.

0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:50.600
<v Speaker 3>Also regarding famous eggnog recipes from the early days, of

0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:56.119
<v Speaker 3>the United States. There is a famous recipe for eggnog

0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.560
<v Speaker 3>that is alleged to come from George Washington's kitchen papers.

0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.840
<v Speaker 3>You'll find this if you google George Washington's Eggnog. I've

0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 3>seen some serious doubt cast upon its origins, like whether

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 3>it was actually Washington's. But according to the Farmer's Almanac,

0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.119
<v Speaker 3>this famous recipe goes as follows. It's one quart cream,

0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:20.120
<v Speaker 3>one quart milk, one dozen tablespoons sugar, one pint brandy,

0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.600
<v Speaker 3>half a pint rye whiskey, half a pint Jamaica rum,

0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.320
<v Speaker 3>and a quarter pint sherry. And then you mix the liquor.

0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.160
<v Speaker 3>Separate the yolks in the whites of twelve eggs, add

0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.760
<v Speaker 3>sugar to the beaten yolks. Mix well. Then you add

0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.000
<v Speaker 3>milk and cream, slowly beating. Beat the whites of the

0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:41.960
<v Speaker 3>eggs until stiff peaks form, then fold slowly into the mixture.

0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.000
<v Speaker 3>Then you let it sit in a cool place for

0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:50.200
<v Speaker 3>several days. Then quote taste frequently. And I could be wrong,

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.359
<v Speaker 3>but I believe this is the recipe that our our

0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 3>colleague Alex Williams uses when he makes his famous eggnog.

0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.800
<v Speaker 3>For all of our coworkers.

0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.359
<v Speaker 1>Yes, it definitely is. This is definitely the recipe he

0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:06.359
<v Speaker 1>would use, and it is quite delightful. But yeah, I

0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:10.200
<v Speaker 1>encountered the same thing. Looking at the actual history of this,

0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:15.360
<v Speaker 1>there's some doubt as to whether George Washington actually serve this.

0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:18.399
<v Speaker 1>And then there are some accounts that say, well, it

0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.159
<v Speaker 1>looks like maybe there's evidence that eggnog was served at

0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Mount Vernon, But as far as the precise recipe, I

0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:28.120
<v Speaker 1>don't know that there's a lot of data to back

0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:31.760
<v Speaker 1>that up. Yeah, though we will have we will touch

0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:35.439
<v Speaker 1>on at least one former US president who did have

0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.600
<v Speaker 1>a recipe for eggnog and did serve it and drink it.

0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.440
<v Speaker 1>All right, all this being said, before we proceed with egnog,

0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 1>I think we can at least consider the possibility of

0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:49.800
<v Speaker 1>predecessors that, Yes, even if egnog is something that emerges

0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:54.600
<v Speaker 1>in North America, there are at least things not unlike

0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:58.360
<v Speaker 1>egnog that one can encounter, say in at least late

0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:00.960
<v Speaker 1>medieval and post medieval Europe.

0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.160
<v Speaker 3>Oh, yes, some gorgeous textures to imagine.

0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so let's go back to the late Middle Ages

0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:11.600
<v Speaker 1>and drink some hard milk. So European holiday traditions, which

0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:15.399
<v Speaker 1>of course inform holiday traditions, and Colonial America and beyond

0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:19.159
<v Speaker 1>are a mix of Christian traditions, more ancient traditions, and

0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:23.040
<v Speaker 1>a great deal of regional variability. I was, in fact,

0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:27.760
<v Speaker 1>just researching the Hooden or Hoden Horse of Kent for

0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.320
<v Speaker 1>the Monster Fact series, and I think that's a great

0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 1>example of this. It brings to mind various costume street

0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:39.359
<v Speaker 1>wandering traditions as well as caroling and was sailing. Wassaile,

0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:42.400
<v Speaker 1>of course, is a door to door ritualistic and communal

0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:46.960
<v Speaker 1>hot drink that typically contained mulled cider ale or wine

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:51.199
<v Speaker 1>and spices. But then there is the tradition of the

0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:57.320
<v Speaker 1>passet posset the posset. Yes, the Smithsonian magazine website has

0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:01.240
<v Speaker 1>a nice article about this titled Past the Posset colon

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:05.320
<v Speaker 1>the Medieval Eggnog by Lisa Brahman, and according to this article,

0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 1>it apparently dates back to late medieval Europe, and it

0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:12.119
<v Speaker 1>looks like some of the examples come to us from

0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:16.320
<v Speaker 1>the post medieval world and beyond. Anyway, the passet itself

0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:19.240
<v Speaker 1>is a drinking vessel, as Brayman points out, and you

0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.960
<v Speaker 1>see mention of it even in Shakespeare's Macbeth, in which

0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:27.680
<v Speaker 1>Lady Macbeth poisons the possets of the guards outside Duncan's quarters.

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:29.360
<v Speaker 3>Oh I forgot about that.

0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:32.840
<v Speaker 1>I had as well when when the author here brings

0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:34.760
<v Speaker 1>it up, I'm like, oh, yeah, I do remember that

0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:39.240
<v Speaker 1>line vaguely. But you encounter so many archaic courts if

0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:44.159
<v Speaker 1>you're reading or performing Shakespeare that you can't stop to wonder. Overall,

0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:47.119
<v Speaker 1>it's enough to be like, okay, this means drinking vessel. Okay,

0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:49.960
<v Speaker 1>what's the next strange word that doesn't quite register for me?

0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Let me translate that one in my head. But this

0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:55.600
<v Speaker 1>is a if you can actually look up examples of

0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:59.560
<v Speaker 1>this vessel online the pauset this posse e t, and

0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:02.439
<v Speaker 1>you'll find that some of the main examples of this

0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:06.639
<v Speaker 1>it looks curiously like an ornate teapot with handles on

0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:11.080
<v Speaker 1>both sides, a wide lidded aperture at the top, with

0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:13.800
<v Speaker 1>a with a with a lid on top, and the

0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:16.960
<v Speaker 1>stem for it, you know, like that like a tea kettle.

0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:20.000
<v Speaker 1>It feeds from the bottom of the vessel rather than

0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:22.760
<v Speaker 1>from the middle or the top of the vessel. M HM.

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:26.080
<v Speaker 1>The reason for this design, according to Brayman is that

0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:29.280
<v Speaker 1>you can drink directly from the stem to get at

0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:32.199
<v Speaker 1>the liquid contents of the of the of the liquid

0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:35.280
<v Speaker 1>it contains, but also you can take the lid off

0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:37.639
<v Speaker 1>the top and go at the top of it with

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:42.280
<v Speaker 1>a spoon, because basically you're gonna have a mixture of things.

0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:45.760
<v Speaker 1>You're gonna have a fluid beneath in kind of a

0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:51.560
<v Speaker 1>chonky chonky, creamy perhaps cheesy layer at the top.

0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:56.000
<v Speaker 3>So this is like it's like a curdled milk drink

0:25:56.080 --> 0:26:00.800
<v Speaker 3>that has that has cheesy, floaty solid bits on the

0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:02.119
<v Speaker 3>top you want to get with a spoon.

0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:06.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, the way that Brayman describes it is quote both

0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:09.200
<v Speaker 1>a drink and a dessert with a layer of thick,

0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:14.720
<v Speaker 1>sweet gruel floating above the liquid. Okay, so okay. On

0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:18.400
<v Speaker 1>one hand, I realized that could potentially be interpreted as gross,

0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 1>But on the other hand, I think it's not that

0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:24.280
<v Speaker 1>different from a lot of sort of frothy dessert things

0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:28.040
<v Speaker 1>we have today. I think about certain milkshakes, certain smoothies,

0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:33.760
<v Speaker 1>certainly especially the older school cappuccinos, where the foam cap

0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:36.440
<v Speaker 1>on top was maybe a little firmer, and you might

0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:38.640
<v Speaker 1>have to go at that with a spoon as opposed

0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:41.720
<v Speaker 1>to drinking it. So I kind of reject the idea

0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:47.399
<v Speaker 1>that this potential hygiene issues aside of late medieval ages,

0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:50.479
<v Speaker 1>I don't think this is necessarily that gross of an

0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 1>idea that you could have some sort of like a

0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:55.919
<v Speaker 1>thick portion on the top of your beverage that requires

0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:58.480
<v Speaker 1>a spoon. It's just like a little different to imagine

0:26:58.560 --> 0:27:05.000
<v Speaker 1>this bizarre container for its consumption. Though nowadays I do

0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:06.320
<v Speaker 1>want to point out we do have things like the

0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:09.679
<v Speaker 1>spoon straw, which is like a plastic usually like a

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:13.800
<v Speaker 1>plastic straw and spoon combined so that you can do both.

0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:15.840
<v Speaker 1>They did not have this technology in the late medieval

0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:18.720
<v Speaker 1>period to my knowledge. Therefore they had to use a passet.

0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:21.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, it is the same principle as a straw,

0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:23.760
<v Speaker 3>which I don't find unusual. But I have to say,

0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:26.959
<v Speaker 3>it is funny to imagine somebody like drinking out of

0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:28.439
<v Speaker 3>the stem of a tea kettle.

0:27:29.200 --> 0:27:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, it does seem like you might burn your

0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 1>mouth with this. So recorded recipes, many of these came later.

0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:40.880
<v Speaker 1>I believe they called if you were going to fill

0:27:40.920 --> 0:27:42.919
<v Speaker 1>the pauset, it would call for a great deal of

0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:46.160
<v Speaker 1>egg and cream. They might also call for beer, sugar,

0:27:46.440 --> 0:27:49.919
<v Speaker 1>and also thickening agents such as bread, biscuits, oatmeal, and

0:27:50.000 --> 0:27:53.800
<v Speaker 1>almond paste. In some cases, the upper portions are said

0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:57.240
<v Speaker 1>to take on a cheesey quality, which actually brings to

0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:00.560
<v Speaker 1>mind modern cheese milk tea drinks, which are quite delightful.

0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:02.760
<v Speaker 1>If you haven't had one, I know this is something

0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:05.400
<v Speaker 1>that can be kind of hard to imagine. Why should

0:28:05.440 --> 0:28:10.119
<v Speaker 1>my milk tea taste like cheese? Well, it's it's not

0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 1>what you're imagining. If you're imagining something that turns your stomach.

0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:16.360
<v Speaker 1>It's not like chatdar cheese on the top of your tea.

0:28:16.440 --> 0:28:22.880
<v Speaker 1>It's something sweetier and creamier, but with that slight cheesy twist.

0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:26.119
<v Speaker 3>To it, not like provolone.

0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Right right now. I should also mention there are more

0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 1>contemporary pauset dishes, such as you often see recipes for

0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:36.200
<v Speaker 1>something called a lemon pausset, but this seems somewhat more

0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:38.920
<v Speaker 1>refined compared to what is described here. This is not

0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:42.080
<v Speaker 1>something you drink out of a strange tea kettle. It's

0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:46.760
<v Speaker 1>something you spoon out of a dish. But is it eggnog? Well,

0:28:47.000 --> 0:28:50.080
<v Speaker 1>in many ways, if not most ways, no. But it

0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:52.880
<v Speaker 1>also sounds like the sort of thing that if you

0:28:52.920 --> 0:28:58.520
<v Speaker 1>were a time traveler from an eggnog having culture and

0:28:58.560 --> 0:29:00.840
<v Speaker 1>you went back to the late Midi Ages and you're like,

0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:02.800
<v Speaker 1>where's my eggnog and people are like, what are you

0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:06.320
<v Speaker 1>talking about? You might discover the posset and be like, oh,

0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:09.040
<v Speaker 1>well this will work, this will do. Now my holiday

0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:09.640
<v Speaker 1>is complete.

0:29:10.000 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a liquidy egg and milk or egg and

0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:14.880
<v Speaker 3>cream type thing.

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:19.479
<v Speaker 1>Right, And I think it's not crazy to imagine that

0:29:19.800 --> 0:29:22.160
<v Speaker 1>this sort of precedent for this sort of drink and

0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:25.480
<v Speaker 1>the sort of taste sensations that it brings about, that

0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:28.080
<v Speaker 1>this could feed into the very American traditions that would,

0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:31.160
<v Speaker 1>according to Thomas, bring about the American eggnog.

0:29:31.800 --> 0:29:35.120
<v Speaker 3>So I assume after we get out of this early

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:39.800
<v Speaker 3>period where mentions are scarce and don't really explain much

0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:42.880
<v Speaker 3>about eggnog except like the Irish guy who's clearly not

0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:45.880
<v Speaker 3>familiar with it, we get into a period where there

0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:49.479
<v Speaker 3>is more extensive writing on eggnog, maybe like in actual

0:29:49.520 --> 0:29:50.760
<v Speaker 3>cookery manuals.

0:29:51.120 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot more material once you was

0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:58.080
<v Speaker 1>a certain point, And Wondrich has a whole chapter on

0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:01.760
<v Speaker 1>egg drinks In his book in by Is, he writes

0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:04.560
<v Speaker 1>it there quote neither punches nor part of the lineage

0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:08.120
<v Speaker 1>of cocktails, and this is also somewhat how Jerry Thomas

0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 1>and the people of his day would have classified them.

0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:13.600
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that really amazed me about all this, though,

0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:17.160
<v Speaker 1>is that Wondredge points out that egg drinks were once

0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:20.920
<v Speaker 1>far more common and kind of a daily affair, but

0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:24.280
<v Speaker 1>that few survive today. This kind of comes back to

0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:27.840
<v Speaker 1>your example earlier about egg nog for breakfast, why not perfect,

0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:32.280
<v Speaker 1>keep the fog away, etc. Now, now I should point

0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:33.760
<v Speaker 1>out this is the two thousand and seven books, so

0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:36.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure if we've seen anything in the way

0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:39.440
<v Speaker 1>of a resurgence of egg drinks. It might be the case, though,

0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:42.640
<v Speaker 1>given the spirit of cocktail making and it's tend to

0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:46.880
<v Speaker 1>re explore older fashions and even remake them with modern twists,

0:30:47.720 --> 0:30:50.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't feel like it's tremendously uncommon to find at

0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:53.200
<v Speaker 1>least a single egg drink on a fancy cocktail menu,

0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:55.560
<v Speaker 1>though to be sure, you probably won't find them on

0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:58.160
<v Speaker 1>just random restaurant cocktail menus, like I don't know if

0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Chili's offers an egg drink.

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:04.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm trying to think, what are the standard egg drinks

0:31:04.680 --> 0:31:07.800
<v Speaker 3>other Well, I guess there are like drinks I don't

0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:11.240
<v Speaker 3>usually get, but like, aren't there like sours and fizzes

0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:14.080
<v Speaker 3>and stuff that have egg whites in them.

0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Wondred points out that the major survivors include the

0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:21.760
<v Speaker 1>nineteenth century Tom and Jerry drink. This would be not

0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:25.720
<v Speaker 1>getting into the proportions, but it's like sugar, eggs rum, cinnamon, cloves, allspice.

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:29.440
<v Speaker 1>There's the sherry flip, which is basically egg, sugar and sherry,

0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 1>and he discusses his elsewhere in the book. But of

0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:35.200
<v Speaker 1>course there's the Ramos gin Fizz, which is pretty famous

0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:39.479
<v Speaker 1>New Orleans drink that contains gin, simple syrup, lemon juice,

0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:42.520
<v Speaker 1>lime juice, egg white, heavy cream, orange flower water, and

0:31:42.520 --> 0:31:46.160
<v Speaker 1>club soda. It's one that famously requires a great deal

0:31:46.200 --> 0:31:50.120
<v Speaker 1>of shaking. You may receive a dirty look from the

0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:52.640
<v Speaker 1>bartender when you order it because of all the shaking

0:31:52.640 --> 0:31:54.480
<v Speaker 1>it's going to require. Sometimes they have to pass it

0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:57.280
<v Speaker 1>off to another bartender to continue shake shaking it. But

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:01.120
<v Speaker 1>it is also a delightful drink. But yeah, he Wonderage

0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:04.400
<v Speaker 1>points out though that that even though we only have

0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:07.080
<v Speaker 1>so many egg drinks that kind of survived. There was

0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:12.959
<v Speaker 1>this time where where egg based drinks, egg egg based

0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:16.920
<v Speaker 1>alcoholic drinks were consumed on pretty much a daily basis

0:32:16.960 --> 0:32:20.200
<v Speaker 1>and were as popular as eggnog drinks are during the

0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:26.080
<v Speaker 1>holiday year round. So just imagine, imagine a world in

0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 1>which eggnog is stocked at the grocery store year round

0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:34.200
<v Speaker 1>to meet people's demand for it, and everybody's having it

0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:37.160
<v Speaker 1>boozed up. Not that they bought it at the grocery store,

0:32:37.160 --> 0:32:38.920
<v Speaker 1>they made it. You get my point.

0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:42.720
<v Speaker 3>That's that sounds like a magical time, a very rich,

0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:43.840
<v Speaker 3>rich time.

0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. But as Paul Clark points out in the Imbibed

0:32:48.520 --> 0:32:54.120
<v Speaker 1>magazine article elements egg cocktails, changing tases and salmonella scares

0:32:54.360 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 1>pretty much chased raw eggs out of the bar. And

0:32:57.080 --> 0:32:59.200
<v Speaker 1>this would be kind of this would be the reason

0:32:59.240 --> 0:33:02.440
<v Speaker 1>that only so many egg drinks kind of survived this

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:05.720
<v Speaker 1>period of time in which, on one hand, yet changing taste.

0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:08.320
<v Speaker 1>You can imagine, perhaps you know, there are new fads

0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:13.440
<v Speaker 1>in cocktails, new ingredients are more readily available for cocktails,

0:33:13.960 --> 0:33:16.520
<v Speaker 1>and then there's this whole issue of salmonella.

0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:20.080
<v Speaker 3>Salmonella concerns, of course, remain relevant to this day, and

0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:22.640
<v Speaker 3>we'll come back to those in just a few minutes now.

0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Wonder Ch also points out there was a great deal

0:33:24.200 --> 0:33:26.760
<v Speaker 1>of variation when it came to eggnog recipes, which I

0:33:26.760 --> 0:33:29.440
<v Speaker 1>imagine is going to be the case with any popular drink,

0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:33.160
<v Speaker 1>even if the recipe isn't secret. See the invention episode

0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:35.400
<v Speaker 1>we did about the my Tie for examples of this.

0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:38.400
<v Speaker 1>On both counts. If the recipe is secret, people are

0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:40.840
<v Speaker 1>going to try and recreate it. And even if the

0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:43.400
<v Speaker 1>secret is if there's no secret, if the recipe is

0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:46.520
<v Speaker 1>well known, you're going to end up having deviations anyway.

0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 1>For instance, anywhere you go today the my Thie recipe,

0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:53.000
<v Speaker 1>there's no telling what a restaurant will actually serve you

0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:57.760
<v Speaker 1>if you order a my tie, even though the original

0:33:57.800 --> 0:34:00.000
<v Speaker 1>recipe is very well known at this point, or it's

0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:02.680
<v Speaker 1>it's very easily obtained if you have a desire to

0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:07.760
<v Speaker 1>seek it out. But these regional differences in eggnog, this

0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:11.760
<v Speaker 1>would this would really make people emotional. Wonderd show points

0:34:11.840 --> 0:34:15.880
<v Speaker 1>out this account where there's a judge who encountered eggnog

0:34:15.920 --> 0:34:19.440
<v Speaker 1>in an inn and it didn't have whiskey enough in it,

0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:21.680
<v Speaker 1>and therefore there was this huge altercation.

0:34:22.280 --> 0:34:25.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I mean again, going back to stories about ends.

0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:26.880
<v Speaker 3>You don't say what time of day this is, but

0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:29.840
<v Speaker 3>this eggnog might have been his morning eggnog, which sets

0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:31.719
<v Speaker 3>the tone for the entire day. It's like, you know,

0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:33.600
<v Speaker 3>if you don't get your coffee right in the morning,

0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:34.880
<v Speaker 3>that's that's bad news.

0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. If I don't get my heavily alcoholic eggnog in

0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:41.839
<v Speaker 1>the morning, I'm just I'm no good now. Sometimes those

0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:44.400
<v Speaker 1>regional differences, though, are going to be entirely based on

0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:47.680
<v Speaker 1>what is available to you. And a great example of

0:34:47.680 --> 0:34:52.840
<v Speaker 1>this is the Texian version of eggnog includesive recipe in

0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:57.200
<v Speaker 1>the book it is It stems. It stems from General

0:34:57.239 --> 0:34:59.759
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Green of the Army of the Texas Republic from

0:34:59.800 --> 0:35:03.680
<v Speaker 1>a teen forty three. The recipe serves about one hundred

0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:07.200
<v Speaker 1>and sixty. It calls for seven gallons of mes cow,

0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:12.200
<v Speaker 1>seven gallons of donkey milk, thirty dozen eggs, and a

0:35:12.360 --> 0:35:13.960
<v Speaker 1>large loaf of sugar.

0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:18.520
<v Speaker 3>I love that sugar used to come in loaves.

0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Oh, if you're making eggnog for one hundred and

0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:24.040
<v Speaker 1>sixty and a number of these recipes do call for

0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:28.520
<v Speaker 1>large vats of eggnog. But this this is quite a lot.

0:35:28.600 --> 0:35:31.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean, seven gallons of mezcal, seven gallons of donkey milk.

0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:33.920
<v Speaker 3>I've never tasted donkey milk. I don't even know.

0:35:33.840 --> 0:35:37.000
<v Speaker 1>What that would be like. I again two thousand and

0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:39.600
<v Speaker 1>seven book, But Wondrich mentioned that donkey milk was becoming

0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:42.040
<v Speaker 1>popular at the time in Europe due to this. I

0:35:42.040 --> 0:35:46.000
<v Speaker 1>supposedly it had some health advantages to it. I don't

0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:48.520
<v Speaker 1>know if that's true. I don't know if it's still

0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:51.239
<v Speaker 1>popular as an alternative milk. I don't think I've seen

0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:53.959
<v Speaker 1>it in myself in health feed stores. But then again,

0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:58.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm not really in the market for donkey milk anyway. Well,

0:35:58.360 --> 0:36:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Wondrich roughly translates the recipe for modern drinkers in that book.

0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:05.400
<v Speaker 1>He of course says you can use cow milk instead

0:36:05.400 --> 0:36:09.040
<v Speaker 1>of donkey milk, and he also recommends grating a little

0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:13.880
<v Speaker 1>chocolate on top. So Jerry Thomas apparently chronicled six different

0:36:13.920 --> 0:36:17.640
<v Speaker 1>eggnog recipes, and wonder Rich includes recipes for three of

0:36:17.680 --> 0:36:20.840
<v Speaker 1>them in his book. Roughly speaking, these are the contents

0:36:20.880 --> 0:36:25.520
<v Speaker 1>of these three that he shares. There's Baltimore eggnog, eggs, sugar, nutmeg,

0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:30.520
<v Speaker 1>brandy or rum wine, egg whites, and milk. There's eggnog individual,

0:36:30.560 --> 0:36:34.600
<v Speaker 1>which calls for sugar, cold water, egg, cognac, Santa Cruz,

0:36:34.680 --> 0:36:39.320
<v Speaker 1>rum and milk. And then there's General Harrison's agnog. This

0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:43.759
<v Speaker 1>is ninth American President William Henry Harrison, and this was

0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:48.000
<v Speaker 1>said to be one of his favorites. It called for egg, sugar,

0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:52.520
<v Speaker 1>hard cider, and lumps of ice. Important to note here

0:36:52.680 --> 0:36:55.720
<v Speaker 1>that cider drinking was part of his brand. His whole

0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:59.120
<v Speaker 1>image that he tried to put out was like, I'm

0:36:59.160 --> 0:37:01.920
<v Speaker 1>not really at home in this Washington environment. I just

0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:04.240
<v Speaker 1>want to sit on the porch and drink some hard sider.

0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Won't you have some of my hardsider based eggnog and

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:10.280
<v Speaker 1>vote for me? Yeah?

0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:13.040
<v Speaker 3>That was him saying like, I'm just a you know,

0:37:13.080 --> 0:37:16.360
<v Speaker 3>a hard working frontiersman. I'm not one of these elites.

0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:20.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, I I appreciate hardsider,

0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:23.759
<v Speaker 1>but this sounds horrific. I don't think I would I

0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:26.840
<v Speaker 1>would want any part of this. So General Harrison, no,

0:37:26.920 --> 0:37:27.239
<v Speaker 1>thank you.

0:37:27.920 --> 0:37:31.160
<v Speaker 3>General Harrison also died about some like thirty days into

0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:35.600
<v Speaker 3>his first presidential term from Yeah, he's the one who

0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:38.600
<v Speaker 3>he didn't really make it very far, and their speculation

0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:41.319
<v Speaker 3>about why he died, But one of them is that

0:37:41.400 --> 0:37:46.240
<v Speaker 3>he may have succumbed to the fact that the water

0:37:46.360 --> 0:37:49.000
<v Speaker 3>supply at the White House at the time was heavily

0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:50.800
<v Speaker 3>contaminated with raw sewage.

0:37:51.520 --> 0:37:55.280
<v Speaker 1>Huh. Interesting. I had a whole tangent for this episode

0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:58.920
<v Speaker 1>about twelfth US President Zachary Taylor, who fell ill with

0:37:58.960 --> 0:38:01.680
<v Speaker 1>a fatal illness on July fourth of eighteen fifty after

0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:07.080
<v Speaker 1>a DC fundraiser that he attended where he quote drank

0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:12.600
<v Speaker 1>freely of iced water and chilled milk, according to biographer k.

0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Jack Bauer in the book Zachary Taylor's Soldier, Planter, Statesman

0:38:16.960 --> 0:38:21.400
<v Speaker 1>of the Old Southwest. So I've seen this described as

0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:26.200
<v Speaker 1>copious amounts of cherries and iced milk. Apparently he preferred

0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:28.640
<v Speaker 1>drinking chilled milk. That was his thing. That was the

0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:32.400
<v Speaker 1>hardest drink that Zachary Taylor was known to imbibe himself.

0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:36.319
<v Speaker 1>But I cut most of this out because he wasn't

0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:39.520
<v Speaker 1>drinking as far as I can tell, a cherry chilled

0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:42.840
<v Speaker 1>milk concoction. It was just chilled milk and then also

0:38:42.880 --> 0:38:44.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of cherries.

0:38:44.400 --> 0:38:48.280
<v Speaker 3>And probably plenty of raw sewage.

0:38:55.480 --> 0:38:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Is it time for salmonella?

0:38:56.840 --> 0:39:01.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, that's a great transition, so eggs salmonella. Salmonella

0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:06.720
<v Speaker 3>remains probably the main reason people have reservations about raw

0:39:06.800 --> 0:39:12.000
<v Speaker 3>egg based food and drinks today. Salmonella is a genus

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:16.680
<v Speaker 3>of bacteria named not after salmon the fish, but after

0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:21.200
<v Speaker 3>an American veterinarian named Daniel Elmer Salmon. Though it was

0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:25.400
<v Speaker 3>not discovered by him, it was named after him basically

0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:30.920
<v Speaker 3>because a species of Salmonella was discovered by an assistant

0:39:31.160 --> 0:39:35.440
<v Speaker 3>in a lab who worked for salmon. The assistant's name

0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:37.960
<v Speaker 3>was Theobald Smith, but of course the boss gets all

0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:42.480
<v Speaker 3>the glory. Some zero types of salmonella are responsible for

0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:46.800
<v Speaker 3>really serious and historically significant diseases such as typhoid fever,

0:39:47.520 --> 0:39:51.520
<v Speaker 3>but multiple types of salmonilla will result in infections of

0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:56.480
<v Speaker 3>the intestinal tract. So salmonilla infection or salmonellosis, is one

0:39:56.520 --> 0:40:01.880
<v Speaker 3>of the most common food born illnesses, often characterized by fever, diarrhea,

0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:07.839
<v Speaker 3>severe stomach cramps, nausea, vomiting, and headache. And because salmonilla

0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:11.479
<v Speaker 3>is often transmitted through the fecal oral route, the risk

0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:14.800
<v Speaker 3>of contracting it is higher when people don't have access

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:19.080
<v Speaker 3>to clean drinking water and effective sewage disposal. Though, salmonella

0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:23.800
<v Speaker 3>can also be transmitted between animals and humans, so animal vectors,

0:40:23.840 --> 0:40:28.040
<v Speaker 3>such as eggs from infected chickens, can be a major

0:40:28.120 --> 0:40:32.080
<v Speaker 3>source of salmonellosis in humans as well. Now, on the

0:40:32.080 --> 0:40:34.920
<v Speaker 3>other hand, one thing to remember is that most eggs

0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:39.440
<v Speaker 3>are fine. Most eggs are not infected with salmonilla. I

0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:42.600
<v Speaker 3>don't know what the exact proportion is, but one figure

0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:45.640
<v Speaker 3>I saw kicking around from the two thousands was a

0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:50.760
<v Speaker 3>CDC estimate that roughly one in every twenty thousand chicken

0:40:50.800 --> 0:40:54.239
<v Speaker 3>eggs in the United States was contaminated. That number may

0:40:54.239 --> 0:40:57.160
<v Speaker 3>be different today. If so, it's probably somewhat lower than that.

0:40:57.760 --> 0:41:00.880
<v Speaker 3>But you know, I'm not say saying you should go

0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:03.480
<v Speaker 3>about eating raw eggs. There is definitely risk there, but

0:41:03.520 --> 0:41:06.880
<v Speaker 3>also like the odds are pretty low that any given

0:41:06.920 --> 0:41:10.120
<v Speaker 3>egg is going to make you sick. Also, eggs are

0:41:10.200 --> 0:41:13.520
<v Speaker 3>fine if you cook them to the proper temperature for

0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:16.840
<v Speaker 3>the proper time. One hundred and sixty degrees fahrenheit will

0:41:17.120 --> 0:41:22.000
<v Speaker 3>kill just about anything instantly. Also, you know, even lower temperatures,

0:41:22.040 --> 0:41:24.319
<v Speaker 3>if held for a sufficient amount of time, will be

0:41:24.440 --> 0:41:28.799
<v Speaker 3>enough to basically sterilize eggs. This is you can look

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:31.239
<v Speaker 3>up charts on the amount of time eggs need to

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:35.280
<v Speaker 3>spend at a certain temperature in order to make them safe. However,

0:41:35.880 --> 0:41:39.800
<v Speaker 3>eggnog is traditionally not made with eggs that are cooked

0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:43.799
<v Speaker 3>at all, but rather with raw ones. So is there

0:41:43.800 --> 0:41:47.960
<v Speaker 3>any risk, Well, yes, obviously if you are just drinking

0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:52.360
<v Speaker 3>raw eggs straight up, there is some risk of salmonilla infection.

0:41:54.000 --> 0:41:56.239
<v Speaker 3>One example of this, I mean it happens all the time,

0:41:56.280 --> 0:41:59.160
<v Speaker 3>but one example, one case study I dug up with

0:41:59.239 --> 0:42:03.320
<v Speaker 3>an interesting secondary finding. This is a study published in

0:42:03.400 --> 0:42:07.480
<v Speaker 3>The Lancet in nineteen seventy five by steer at All

0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:13.680
<v Speaker 3>called person to person spread of Salmonella typhimurium after a

0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:17.840
<v Speaker 3>hospital common source outbreak. So the abstract reads, in September

0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:23.440
<v Speaker 3>nineteen seventy three, diarrhea caused by Salmonella typhemurium developed in

0:42:23.560 --> 0:42:27.560
<v Speaker 3>thirty two people in a main hospital. Both epidemiological and

0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:32.360
<v Speaker 3>microbiological evidence indicated that raw egg beaten in milk for

0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:37.920
<v Speaker 3>eggnog was responsible for the infection. However, six patients and

0:42:37.960 --> 0:42:41.840
<v Speaker 3>eight employees had not had eggnog, and their illness developed

0:42:41.880 --> 0:42:45.560
<v Speaker 3>after the source of infection had been recognized and removed.

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:48.960
<v Speaker 3>Most of these people had had direct contact with an

0:42:49.040 --> 0:42:53.759
<v Speaker 3>infected patient and presumably acquired the infection by person to

0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:57.239
<v Speaker 3>person spread. It's concluded that person to person spread of

0:42:57.320 --> 0:43:01.920
<v Speaker 3>Salmonilla typhemurium can occur in hospitals in Cambia hazard to

0:43:02.000 --> 0:43:05.120
<v Speaker 3>patients and staff. So initially a bunch of people in

0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:09.640
<v Speaker 3>the hospital got salmonella from drinking eggnog, but then those

0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:13.520
<v Speaker 3>people gave secondary infections to others who didn't even touch

0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:17.320
<v Speaker 3>the nog. Also, I wanted to share another medical journal

0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:20.240
<v Speaker 3>article I found just because I thought it was very weird.

0:43:20.680 --> 0:43:25.480
<v Speaker 3>This is called Eyelid absess in an Eggnog Drinker by

0:43:25.960 --> 0:43:29.840
<v Speaker 3>Marcus and Wolverson, published in the British Medical Journal nineteen

0:43:29.920 --> 0:43:33.279
<v Speaker 3>eighty nine. Short story is a seventy two year old

0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:35.239
<v Speaker 3>man showed up at a hospital in England with a

0:43:35.440 --> 0:43:39.839
<v Speaker 3>huge abscess swelling on his left upper eyelid, which they

0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:43.840
<v Speaker 3>eventually determined had spread to an infection of the bone

0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:47.600
<v Speaker 3>in his forehead, the bone above where his eye was.

0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:51.160
<v Speaker 3>So he was put under general anesthesia and the absess

0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:53.560
<v Speaker 3>was drained. They did a culture of the pus and

0:43:53.600 --> 0:43:57.759
<v Speaker 3>it revealed the presence of a type of salmonella. They

0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:01.360
<v Speaker 3>eventually did another procedure to take care of the swelling

0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:04.359
<v Speaker 3>in the bones of the face, and he eventually made

0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:09.400
<v Speaker 3>a full recovery. The man had no gastrointestinal symptoms, and

0:44:09.440 --> 0:44:12.480
<v Speaker 3>the authors say that there had been recent cases of

0:44:12.560 --> 0:44:16.360
<v Speaker 3>salmonilla infection related to eggs, so they asked him about

0:44:16.360 --> 0:44:18.000
<v Speaker 3>his diet, and here I'm going to read from the

0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:23.040
<v Speaker 3>case report. His diet consisted of West Indian and European food,

0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:26.480
<v Speaker 3>but he said that he cooked all eggs well. When

0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:29.600
<v Speaker 3>he was seen in the outpatient department, he was specifically

0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:33.800
<v Speaker 3>asked if he drank eggnog, and he then admitted drinking

0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:38.920
<v Speaker 3>it frequently, using a recipe of raw eggs, brandy, sugar, milk,

0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:42.680
<v Speaker 3>and vanilla essence. Now, the authors say they could find

0:44:42.680 --> 0:44:46.400
<v Speaker 3>no previous evidence of this particular type of salmonella causing

0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:50.880
<v Speaker 3>an eyelid absess, but that there are other known cases

0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:55.880
<v Speaker 3>of this bacterial infection spreading from a gut infection originally

0:44:55.920 --> 0:44:58.839
<v Speaker 3>to a secondary infection elsewhere in the body, such as

0:44:58.880 --> 0:45:02.880
<v Speaker 3>in the bones, actually the long bones, especially in patients

0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:06.919
<v Speaker 3>with underlying medical conditions and in patients over seventy years

0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:11.120
<v Speaker 3>of age. And finally, the author's write quote, from nineteen

0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:14.160
<v Speaker 3>eighty one to nineteen eighty six, the proportion of salmonella

0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.560
<v Speaker 3>infections caused by salmonella, and then they're talking about a

0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:22.840
<v Speaker 3>specific type here, Salmonella in teriditis rose from eleven percent

0:45:22.920 --> 0:45:26.160
<v Speaker 3>to twenty eight percent. This rise was due mainly to

0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:30.520
<v Speaker 3>a rise in phage type four infections. Transmission of this

0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:34.239
<v Speaker 3>phage type has been increasingly associated with poultry, and it

0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:38.320
<v Speaker 3>is now known to be transmitted in eggs. Egg born

0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:43.200
<v Speaker 3>Salmonilla in teroditis is destroyed by thorough cooking. The raw

0:45:43.200 --> 0:45:46.000
<v Speaker 3>egg in the eggnog may have been the vehicle of infection.

0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:51.000
<v Speaker 3>Unless specifically asked for, a history of eggnog drinking may

0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:56.279
<v Speaker 3>not emerge on dietary questioning. But okay, now, I'm sure

0:45:56.320 --> 0:46:01.280
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people out there are wondering, Wait a minute. Okay, obviously,

0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:03.360
<v Speaker 3>you know you mix up a bunch of raw eggs

0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:06.840
<v Speaker 3>and you just drink that, that definitely is putting you

0:46:06.880 --> 0:46:10.000
<v Speaker 3>at risk. But if you put alcohol in the eggnog,

0:46:10.440 --> 0:46:14.320
<v Speaker 3>surely that would be safe. Right? Doesn't alcohol kill germs?

0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? And we're talking a lot of alcohol in some

0:46:18.120 --> 0:46:19.640
<v Speaker 1>of these recipes.

0:46:19.520 --> 0:46:24.000
<v Speaker 3>Now, frustratingly, I have not been able to put together

0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:28.560
<v Speaker 3>a very clear answer on the exact relationship between alcohol

0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:32.080
<v Speaker 3>content and raw egg safety. Instead, I've sort of assembled

0:46:32.120 --> 0:46:36.120
<v Speaker 3>some different conflicting data points, but I'll share a few

0:46:36.120 --> 0:46:40.200
<v Speaker 3>of the results I came across. So one thing I

0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:42.960
<v Speaker 3>found is a study in the International Journal of Food

0:46:43.000 --> 0:46:47.640
<v Speaker 3>Microbiology published in nineteen ninety called survival of pathogenic micro

0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:52.080
<v Speaker 3>organisms in an eggnog like product containing seven percent ethanol.

0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.719
<v Speaker 3>This is by notermans at all, so this is a

0:46:55.800 --> 0:46:59.000
<v Speaker 3>lab test. They say, let's make some boozy eggnog and

0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:03.840
<v Speaker 3>direct inject pathogenic microorganisms in there and see what happens.

0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:08.759
<v Speaker 3>So they say a liquor consisting of whole egg sacros

0:47:08.880 --> 0:47:13.600
<v Speaker 3>meaning sugar twenty five percent and ethanol of seven percent

0:47:14.480 --> 0:47:23.480
<v Speaker 3>was artificially contaminated with Salmonella teriditis, Salmonilla, typhomurium, Staphylococcus aureus,

0:47:23.640 --> 0:47:29.480
<v Speaker 3>three different strains, Basillus sirius, and Listeria. And they say,

0:47:29.480 --> 0:47:33.560
<v Speaker 3>after three weeks of incubation at twenty two degrees celsius,

0:47:33.960 --> 0:47:37.200
<v Speaker 3>twenty two degrees celsius is about seventy one degrees fahrenheit

0:47:37.320 --> 0:47:43.120
<v Speaker 3>room temperature, the numbers of salmonilla, Staphylococcus aureus and and

0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:46.600
<v Speaker 3>of the Listeria species they use decreased by more than

0:47:46.680 --> 0:47:50.160
<v Speaker 3>three log base ten units, and if I understand correctly,

0:47:50.160 --> 0:47:53.240
<v Speaker 3>I believe that's a ninety nine point nine percent reduction

0:47:54.000 --> 0:47:57.479
<v Speaker 3>in the number of bacteria units. There they say under

0:47:57.480 --> 0:48:02.000
<v Speaker 3>such conditions, however, the total number of my microorganisms increased

0:48:02.160 --> 0:48:06.320
<v Speaker 3>three log ten units. Then they say at four degrees celsius,

0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:09.759
<v Speaker 3>So I think this would be simulating refrigerator temperatures. The

0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:14.400
<v Speaker 3>decrease of pathogenic microorganisms was much slower, and a decrease

0:48:14.440 --> 0:48:18.200
<v Speaker 3>of three log based ten units was observed only after

0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:22.760
<v Speaker 3>seven weeks of incubation. So this study finds eggnog without

0:48:22.800 --> 0:48:26.799
<v Speaker 3>alcohol incubated at room temperature. Yeah, that's you allow populations

0:48:26.800 --> 0:48:30.920
<v Speaker 3>of salmonilla and staff to explode. But in this study,

0:48:30.960 --> 0:48:34.719
<v Speaker 3>the presence of seven percent straight ethanol significantly reduced the

0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:37.879
<v Speaker 3>amount of salmonilla, at staff and listeria over the course

0:48:37.920 --> 0:48:40.520
<v Speaker 3>of three weeks at room temperature and over the course

0:48:40.560 --> 0:48:45.480
<v Speaker 3>of seven weeks at fridge temperature. However, other microorganisms can grow.

0:48:46.000 --> 0:48:48.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure this recipe for egnog that they used

0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:52.400
<v Speaker 1>is the doctor cushion catheter right recipe for agnog with

0:48:52.440 --> 0:48:53.879
<v Speaker 1>all of these added diseases.

0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:59.840
<v Speaker 3>M you can just imagine Christopher Lee drooling over it

0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:04.480
<v Speaker 3>while the Stanton Twins dance. But the amount of alcohol

0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:10.160
<v Speaker 3>clearly matters. One highly cited informal experiment. This was not

0:49:10.280 --> 0:49:12.839
<v Speaker 3>published in a scientific journal as far as I can tell,

0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:16.480
<v Speaker 3>but it was done and reported on by NPR for

0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:19.200
<v Speaker 3>Science Friday. It was done in the late two thousands

0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:24.920
<v Speaker 3>by microbiologists at the at Rockefeller University named Vince Faschetti

0:49:25.040 --> 0:49:28.760
<v Speaker 3>and Raymond Schuck, and it was covered on Science Friday.

0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:33.320
<v Speaker 3>And apparently these researchers used a recipe that the staff

0:49:33.360 --> 0:49:36.400
<v Speaker 3>at the university would make every year, which originally traced

0:49:36.400 --> 0:49:40.799
<v Speaker 3>back to the great American microbiologist Rebecca Lancefield. So this

0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:44.480
<v Speaker 3>is her original eggnog recipe. She had worked at Rockefeller

0:49:44.640 --> 0:49:48.160
<v Speaker 3>University decades earlier. Apparently they're still making her eggnog years

0:49:48.160 --> 0:49:52.880
<v Speaker 3>after she passed away. And the recipe includes raw eggs

0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:56.240
<v Speaker 3>but also cream, sugar, and a lot of hard liquor.

0:49:57.080 --> 0:50:00.800
<v Speaker 3>The liquors in this version are bourbon and rum. NPR

0:50:00.920 --> 0:50:04.640
<v Speaker 3>reported that the alcohol concentration of the final drink was

0:50:04.680 --> 0:50:07.680
<v Speaker 3>about twenty percent. And the way they would do it

0:50:07.719 --> 0:50:10.239
<v Speaker 3>is every year they'd make it before Thanksgiving and then

0:50:10.360 --> 0:50:13.480
<v Speaker 3>enjoy it around Christmas time. So it had an incubation

0:50:13.600 --> 0:50:18.080
<v Speaker 3>period in the refrigerator of about six weeks. So for

0:50:18.120 --> 0:50:21.640
<v Speaker 3>this experiment, the researchers made their usual knog, but they

0:50:21.719 --> 0:50:25.120
<v Speaker 3>deliberately spiked it once again with salmonilla. Just you can

0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:28.120
<v Speaker 3>watch a video of this. They're just injecting this orange

0:50:28.520 --> 0:50:33.399
<v Speaker 3>juice into the eggs. It's disgusting, they say. They put

0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:36.600
<v Speaker 3>in the amount of salmonella you would expect from including

0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:41.920
<v Speaker 3>about somewhere between one and ten contaminated eggs, and then

0:50:41.960 --> 0:50:46.160
<v Speaker 3>they took samples at various stages of preparation and incubation

0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:49.000
<v Speaker 3>to see what grew over the course of the next

0:50:49.000 --> 0:50:53.440
<v Speaker 3>three weeks. So egg plus salmonella with no alcohol, that's

0:50:53.600 --> 0:50:58.600
<v Speaker 3>just it formed a solid mat of salmony, just huge boom,

0:50:58.719 --> 0:51:00.520
<v Speaker 3>millions of bacteria. Disgusting.

0:51:00.880 --> 0:51:02.799
<v Speaker 1>Hey, you can need your spoon and your posset for that.

0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:07.360
<v Speaker 3>One ugh egg plus salmonilla plus alcohol with the sample

0:51:07.440 --> 0:51:12.480
<v Speaker 3>taken immediately after mixing give you a modest reduction, but

0:51:12.560 --> 0:51:15.879
<v Speaker 3>still plenty of salmonilla growth. This would still absolutely make

0:51:15.920 --> 0:51:20.240
<v Speaker 3>you sick. Egg plus salmonella plus alcohol, but one day

0:51:20.320 --> 0:51:24.440
<v Speaker 3>after mixing, still plenty of salmonilla, but less than the

0:51:24.480 --> 0:51:28.640
<v Speaker 3>one taken right after mixing. One week later, there was

0:51:28.800 --> 0:51:32.439
<v Speaker 3>noticeably less bacterial growth, but they said, still probably enough

0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:35.359
<v Speaker 3>to make you sick. But then the sample from three

0:51:35.400 --> 0:51:40.040
<v Speaker 3>weeks later there's nothing, no bacterial growth at all. So

0:51:40.400 --> 0:51:44.399
<v Speaker 3>somewhere between one week and three weeks this batch went

0:51:44.520 --> 0:51:51.719
<v Speaker 3>from biohazard to presumably safe. Though I noticed that the

0:51:51.840 --> 0:51:55.560
<v Speaker 3>Science Friday report made a joke about like the researchers

0:51:55.600 --> 0:51:58.239
<v Speaker 3>themselves are joking about this. They said, you know, we

0:51:58.600 --> 0:52:01.359
<v Speaker 3>could really commit to our result and just drink it,

0:52:01.480 --> 0:52:06.759
<v Speaker 3>but maybe not, which makes sense, right, like why risk it?

0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:10.439
<v Speaker 3>And that kind of spirit comes through in a lot

0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:13.759
<v Speaker 3>of the other sources I've seen talking about whether alcohol

0:52:13.840 --> 0:52:17.960
<v Speaker 3>will render your eggnog safe, because it seems clear there's

0:52:18.000 --> 0:52:20.920
<v Speaker 3>evidence that at least in some cases, even if you

0:52:21.000 --> 0:52:24.680
<v Speaker 3>got unlucky enough in got a contaminated egg, given enough

0:52:24.719 --> 0:52:28.080
<v Speaker 3>alcohol and enough time, the nog would probably be safe.

0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:31.520
<v Speaker 3>But there are a lot of variables here, and so

0:52:31.600 --> 0:52:33.680
<v Speaker 3>it seems like a bunch of public health and food

0:52:33.719 --> 0:52:37.800
<v Speaker 3>safety sources are still cautious they're still kind of cagy

0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:40.880
<v Speaker 3>about giving the green light on this, and they default

0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:43.200
<v Speaker 3>to saying that if you want to be sure you're safe,

0:52:43.360 --> 0:52:46.440
<v Speaker 3>you should use pasteurized eggs from a carton which have

0:52:46.480 --> 0:52:49.160
<v Speaker 3>been rendered safe by preheating in the facility where they

0:52:49.160 --> 0:52:54.080
<v Speaker 3>were packaged, or they also recommend cooking the eggs. Basically

0:52:54.120 --> 0:52:57.400
<v Speaker 3>like sources citing experts at the FDA or the USDA

0:52:57.960 --> 0:53:00.799
<v Speaker 3>say that you can't always count on alcohol to kill

0:53:00.800 --> 0:53:03.960
<v Speaker 3>potential bacterial content of raw eggs, and if you want

0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:06.160
<v Speaker 3>to be safe, the eggs should be cooked. You can

0:53:06.200 --> 0:53:08.800
<v Speaker 3>do this by like mixing the eggs and milk together

0:53:08.880 --> 0:53:11.320
<v Speaker 3>and gently bringing up to one hundred and sixty degrees

0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:15.840
<v Speaker 3>fahrenheit while stirring to kill any possible bacterial content before

0:53:15.840 --> 0:53:19.319
<v Speaker 3>you add the other ingredients. So personally, I don't know

0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:22.839
<v Speaker 3>exactly where we are left here. I will say it

0:53:22.920 --> 0:53:28.120
<v Speaker 3>looks like some experiments do show that alcohol content will

0:53:28.400 --> 0:53:30.879
<v Speaker 3>at least often, maybe not always, but will at least

0:53:30.920 --> 0:53:34.840
<v Speaker 3>often neutralize the main bacteria that people are worried about,

0:53:34.880 --> 0:53:39.640
<v Speaker 3>meaning salmonilla, given enough alcohol and enough time. And I

0:53:39.640 --> 0:53:42.480
<v Speaker 3>will say that I also just speaking for myself, not

0:53:42.520 --> 0:53:47.399
<v Speaker 3>giving advice to other people. Have personally drunk eggnog made

0:53:47.480 --> 0:53:49.560
<v Speaker 3>in this way with raw eggs but with lots of

0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:54.120
<v Speaker 3>alcohol content, and personally I felt fine about it. But

0:53:54.480 --> 0:53:58.000
<v Speaker 3>it also looks like some experts still have concerns that

0:53:58.040 --> 0:54:00.400
<v Speaker 3>this might not always work, and caution that if you

0:54:00.440 --> 0:54:02.719
<v Speaker 3>want to make sure you're safe, you should cook your

0:54:02.760 --> 0:54:04.520
<v Speaker 3>eggs or use a past your eye product.

0:54:05.120 --> 0:54:07.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean this is also enough to make one rethink

0:54:08.120 --> 0:54:09.760
<v Speaker 1>eating raw cookie dough and so forth.

0:54:10.880 --> 0:54:12.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I mean, well, it's true, I guess of

0:54:13.000 --> 0:54:15.480
<v Speaker 3>anything with raw eggs in it, like, there is always

0:54:15.640 --> 0:54:19.560
<v Speaker 3>some small amount of risk. You know, some small proportion

0:54:19.880 --> 0:54:22.800
<v Speaker 3>of eggs out there are going to be infected. Most

0:54:22.840 --> 0:54:25.719
<v Speaker 3>eggs are fine, but some are going to have salmonella

0:54:25.760 --> 0:54:28.640
<v Speaker 3>in them, So you're always running that risk. And I guess,

0:54:29.320 --> 0:54:31.719
<v Speaker 3>I guess some of the difficulty comes from not just

0:54:32.280 --> 0:54:34.680
<v Speaker 3>whether or not you will accept the risk, but from

0:54:34.760 --> 0:54:38.320
<v Speaker 3>not knowing exactly how risky it is. Like you can't

0:54:38.320 --> 0:54:41.560
<v Speaker 3>come up, you don't have a number, you know, to say, like, Okay,

0:54:41.640 --> 0:54:44.600
<v Speaker 3>I have this percent chance of getting salmonilla if I

0:54:44.640 --> 0:54:47.279
<v Speaker 3>do this. Instead, you just have a vague sense that

0:54:47.640 --> 0:54:50.440
<v Speaker 3>I have some small chance, and I don't know exactly

0:54:50.480 --> 0:54:51.520
<v Speaker 3>what that chance is.

0:54:52.320 --> 0:54:54.640
<v Speaker 1>But in a way, that's it's the holiday season. It's

0:54:54.680 --> 0:55:01.360
<v Speaker 1>about it's about thinking about your chances of surviving a

0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:04.400
<v Speaker 1>winter festivity that is supposed to get you through the

0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:08.040
<v Speaker 1>darkest portion of the year and hopefully see about the

0:55:08.040 --> 0:55:09.880
<v Speaker 1>resurrection of the living world.

0:55:10.760 --> 0:55:13.000
<v Speaker 3>That's quite beautifully put. But on the other hand, I'll

0:55:13.040 --> 0:55:15.640
<v Speaker 3>just say, like, you know, if you're not your yeah,

0:55:15.760 --> 0:55:17.960
<v Speaker 3>just cook your eggs or just use the past yourized thing.

0:55:18.000 --> 0:55:20.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's fine now. Last year on Stuft to

0:55:20.719 --> 0:55:23.759
<v Speaker 1>blow your mind, we did an entire episode looking at

0:55:23.880 --> 0:55:28.800
<v Speaker 1>the major award leg lamp from a Christmas Story, the

0:55:29.280 --> 0:55:33.440
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighties holiday classic film, and you know, looking at

0:55:33.440 --> 0:55:39.279
<v Speaker 1>this leg shaped lamp and finding predecessors to this in

0:55:40.080 --> 0:55:43.440
<v Speaker 1>the ancient world. In a similar way, I would like

0:55:43.520 --> 0:55:47.040
<v Speaker 1>to at the close of this episode on eggnog, consider

0:55:47.160 --> 0:55:51.200
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen eighty nine holiday film Christmas Vacation, which of

0:55:51.200 --> 0:55:56.960
<v Speaker 1>course starred a great cast Chevy Chase, Beverly Dangelo, Randy Quaid,

0:55:57.520 --> 0:56:01.040
<v Speaker 1>among others. But there are at least a couple of

0:56:01.120 --> 0:56:04.320
<v Speaker 1>key scenes in this movie in which the Griswold family

0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:08.480
<v Speaker 1>drinks eggnog from glass goblets made in the likeness of

0:56:08.600 --> 0:56:12.600
<v Speaker 1>the Wally World moose. These are you can actually buy

0:56:12.640 --> 0:56:14.960
<v Speaker 1>these now, this is an actual product. But in the

0:56:14.960 --> 0:56:18.600
<v Speaker 1>movie they are these little glass goblets and they have

0:56:19.080 --> 0:56:22.400
<v Speaker 1>big glass moose antlers on either side, and there's a

0:56:22.400 --> 0:56:25.840
<v Speaker 1>big droopy moose snout on the front. You hold it

0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:28.680
<v Speaker 1>by the ear and you sip your eggnog that way,

0:56:28.800 --> 0:56:31.279
<v Speaker 1>or you gulp it, as it happens to be the

0:56:31.320 --> 0:56:32.400
<v Speaker 1>case in some of the scenes.

0:56:33.000 --> 0:56:36.160
<v Speaker 3>I imagine the moose face has to be facing out or

0:56:36.160 --> 0:56:39.440
<v Speaker 3>else the snout would sort of prevent you from from

0:56:39.520 --> 0:56:40.920
<v Speaker 3>getting it to your lips.

0:56:41.280 --> 0:56:43.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, you'd have to hold the glass in just

0:56:43.160 --> 0:56:46.960
<v Speaker 1>the right way. It's a ceremonial vessel. And I started

0:56:46.960 --> 0:56:48.680
<v Speaker 1>looking around as thinking, I don't know, I don't know

0:56:48.719 --> 0:56:50.359
<v Speaker 1>if there's going to be something in the ancient world

0:56:50.360 --> 0:56:53.600
<v Speaker 1>that matches up with this. But luckily, once more, eighties

0:56:53.640 --> 0:56:57.799
<v Speaker 1>holiday movie prop design is in line with the manufacture

0:56:57.840 --> 0:57:01.080
<v Speaker 1>of artifacts in the ancient world. I would like to

0:57:01.120 --> 0:57:07.120
<v Speaker 1>discuss the ryton. This is generally spelled r hytn and

0:57:07.160 --> 0:57:09.920
<v Speaker 1>it is a style of head cup that appears in

0:57:10.040 --> 0:57:14.560
<v Speaker 1>various forms throughout the ancient world. According to Mara abd

0:57:14.760 --> 0:57:18.640
<v Speaker 1>El Maghwud al Kadi in Forms and Functions of rytons

0:57:18.800 --> 0:57:22.880
<v Speaker 1>in Ptotomaic Egypt. According to this author, they were likely

0:57:23.040 --> 0:57:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Persian in origin and were particularly popular during the Achaemenid

0:57:26.920 --> 0:57:30.360
<v Speaker 1>dynasty of five point fifty through three point thirty PCE.

0:57:31.120 --> 0:57:33.160
<v Speaker 1>You can look up images of the ryton and the

0:57:33.240 --> 0:57:36.080
<v Speaker 1>various versions of the ryton that appear in different times

0:57:36.080 --> 0:57:39.880
<v Speaker 1>and different cultures. One can roughly compare these to a

0:57:40.000 --> 0:57:44.280
<v Speaker 1>drinking horn, like you know, the hollowed horn of a beast,

0:57:44.800 --> 0:57:47.320
<v Speaker 1>but the design and function here is a little more involved.

0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:50.600
<v Speaker 1>So imagine a drinking horn in which the slender part

0:57:50.640 --> 0:57:53.280
<v Speaker 1>of the horn, the tapering part of the horn is

0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:57.400
<v Speaker 1>in the likeness of an animal's head or in the

0:57:57.880 --> 0:58:01.200
<v Speaker 1>front half of an animal. And we don't have time

0:58:01.720 --> 0:58:03.840
<v Speaker 1>in this episode to really dig into the variation and

0:58:04.080 --> 0:58:07.560
<v Speaker 1>the different cultural takes in this episode. But again, this

0:58:07.560 --> 0:58:10.320
<v Speaker 1>would have been a realistic drinking vessel. This would not

0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:13.360
<v Speaker 1>be something you would bust out, I would imagine for

0:58:13.440 --> 0:58:17.280
<v Speaker 1>your just everyday consumption. This would be for ceremonial drinking.

0:58:17.920 --> 0:58:22.160
<v Speaker 1>And there are essentially two types of ryton. In one form,

0:58:22.520 --> 0:58:25.680
<v Speaker 1>you drink from the slender part of the ryton holding

0:58:25.720 --> 0:58:29.320
<v Speaker 1>it above one's head or roughly you know, above one's head,

0:58:29.360 --> 0:58:32.520
<v Speaker 1>or at least parallel with one's head, by either twin

0:58:32.560 --> 0:58:36.200
<v Speaker 1>handles on the side, or from some other kind of

0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:39.439
<v Speaker 1>handle that's a fixed to the object, or even from

0:58:39.440 --> 0:58:43.400
<v Speaker 1>sort of the horn itself. In other forms, one drinks

0:58:43.440 --> 0:58:45.880
<v Speaker 1>from the wide portion of the ryton, So the whole

0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:49.200
<v Speaker 1>thing is more like a traditional goblet, except many of

0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:53.080
<v Speaker 1>these designs would require you know, gripping by the horns

0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:56.160
<v Speaker 1>or by the or the antlers that are on it.

0:58:56.160 --> 0:58:58.160
<v Speaker 1>If there are antlers on it, and you might not

0:58:58.240 --> 0:59:00.240
<v Speaker 1>be able to set it down, it may not might

0:59:00.240 --> 0:59:01.520
<v Speaker 1>not have a bottom to it.

0:59:03.800 --> 0:59:07.480
<v Speaker 3>Wow, well, that almost suggests a certain way to drink.

0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and again this would be highly ritual, So it's

0:59:10.840 --> 0:59:13.800
<v Speaker 1>not about setting your drink aside and then doing other things.

0:59:13.880 --> 0:59:16.720
<v Speaker 1>You're not gonna do any paperwork. This is probably part

0:59:16.720 --> 0:59:19.120
<v Speaker 1>of some ritual I don't know. You can easily imagine

0:59:19.120 --> 0:59:20.560
<v Speaker 1>some sort of warrior's feast, etc.

0:59:21.320 --> 0:59:24.680
<v Speaker 3>Right, you can't drink it while you're podcasting. It's maybe

0:59:24.720 --> 0:59:28.040
<v Speaker 3>to drink from while people stand around you chanting drink.

0:59:28.600 --> 0:59:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Right. So there are various beautiful examples of the ryton,

0:59:33.120 --> 0:59:36.480
<v Speaker 1>but The one that really brought to my mind the

0:59:36.520 --> 0:59:40.080
<v Speaker 1>Wally World mug is the Stag's head Ryton, dating to

0:59:40.280 --> 0:59:44.440
<v Speaker 1>four hundred BCE. This is a silver artifact that actually

0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:47.600
<v Speaker 1>made headlines just last year due to its three point

0:59:47.600 --> 0:59:50.880
<v Speaker 1>five million dollar appraisal value and its presence among stolen

0:59:50.920 --> 0:59:55.680
<v Speaker 1>antiquities that were found in the possession of billionaire Michael Steinhardt.

0:59:56.400 --> 0:59:59.440
<v Speaker 1>You can look up articles on that again from just

0:59:59.520 --> 1:00:02.760
<v Speaker 1>last year. The item was apparently looted from a museum

1:00:02.800 --> 1:00:06.360
<v Speaker 1>in Turkey originally, but I'm unsure exactly when the looting occurred,

1:00:06.480 --> 1:00:09.919
<v Speaker 1>other than sometime during the twentieth century during a time

1:00:09.960 --> 1:00:13.800
<v Speaker 1>of unrest, which that only narrows it down so much

1:00:13.840 --> 1:00:17.240
<v Speaker 1>concerning the twentieth century, though. It does seem to be

1:00:17.320 --> 1:00:20.200
<v Speaker 1>of ancient Greek manufacturer somewhere in the region of the

1:00:20.240 --> 1:00:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Black Sea, probably from the fifth century BCE. And with

1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:28.520
<v Speaker 1>this one, you'd apparently drink from the stag's lower lip

1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:32.760
<v Speaker 1>while holding it aloft, though not by the antlers, as

1:00:32.800 --> 1:00:35.640
<v Speaker 1>is visible in many photos of this particular artifact. There's

1:00:35.640 --> 1:00:38.200
<v Speaker 1>this curved handle behind the neck.

1:00:38.720 --> 1:00:39.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I see it.

1:00:39.600 --> 1:00:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So the question remains, is the Wally World mug

1:00:43.640 --> 1:00:48.280
<v Speaker 1>a ryton. No, it's not. No, it's not. Yes, it's

1:00:48.720 --> 1:00:51.280
<v Speaker 1>first of all, it's not horn shaped. It also doesn't

1:00:51.360 --> 1:00:53.920
<v Speaker 1>you don't drink from the moose's lips, though that alone

1:00:54.000 --> 1:00:57.640
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't disqualify it from being a ryton, as we previously noted,

1:00:58.640 --> 1:01:01.480
<v Speaker 1>though I've included a picture for you, Joe, of a

1:01:01.600 --> 1:01:06.040
<v Speaker 1>ryton that would involve you drinking from the wide portion

1:01:06.120 --> 1:01:08.960
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to the beast lips. You can sort of see.

1:01:10.480 --> 1:01:12.600
<v Speaker 1>So this one would be very much a situation where

1:01:12.640 --> 1:01:14.880
<v Speaker 1>you have this kind of like I don't know, bronze

1:01:14.960 --> 1:01:17.400
<v Speaker 1>or golden chalice, and you wouldn't be able to set

1:01:17.400 --> 1:01:20.400
<v Speaker 1>it down because instead of having a flat surface, flat

1:01:20.440 --> 1:01:23.560
<v Speaker 1>bottom on the bottom of your goblet, there is like

1:01:23.600 --> 1:01:27.200
<v Speaker 1>the head of a ram down there. Yeah, so you'd

1:01:27.200 --> 1:01:29.320
<v Speaker 1>have to lay it on its side, I guess, in

1:01:29.360 --> 1:01:31.640
<v Speaker 1>which case you would either spill what you were drinking

1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:33.600
<v Speaker 1>or you would have to have consumed it all.

1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:37.160
<v Speaker 3>Once again, the medium is the message here. This is

1:01:37.200 --> 1:01:41.480
<v Speaker 3>technology that shows that by necessity, shows you a way

1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:42.000
<v Speaker 3>to use it.

1:01:42.440 --> 1:01:46.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. However, I will say the Wally World mug is

1:01:46.960 --> 1:01:49.560
<v Speaker 1>the likeness of a moosehead. It is the likeness of

1:01:49.600 --> 1:01:53.760
<v Speaker 1>an animal's head. It also is a ceremonial drinking vessel. Clearly,

1:01:53.760 --> 1:01:55.760
<v Speaker 1>the Grizwolds are not drinking out of these year round,

1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:59.600
<v Speaker 1>They're busting them out for the holidays. And just as

1:01:59.640 --> 1:02:02.160
<v Speaker 1>some of these artifacts, such as the stag, were decorated

1:02:02.200 --> 1:02:05.040
<v Speaker 1>with warrior images and images of battle, and we can

1:02:05.120 --> 1:02:07.880
<v Speaker 1>imagine the ceremonies they involve, probably a line with some

1:02:07.920 --> 1:02:11.440
<v Speaker 1>sort of warrior ethos. We do see Clark Griswold drinking

1:02:11.440 --> 1:02:15.240
<v Speaker 1>copious amounts of nog while working cousin Eddie up for violence,

1:02:15.720 --> 1:02:18.600
<v Speaker 1>though curiously I had to go back. I was imagining this,

1:02:18.880 --> 1:02:23.440
<v Speaker 1>remembering this scene incorrectly, the scene where Clark Griswold is

1:02:23.520 --> 1:02:25.560
<v Speaker 1>throwing back a whole bunch of eggnog and talking about

1:02:25.600 --> 1:02:28.920
<v Speaker 1>how he wishes somebody would kidnap his boss. He's curiously

1:02:29.000 --> 1:02:33.240
<v Speaker 1>not drinking from one of the moose goblets in this scene.

1:02:33.440 --> 1:02:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh so, I don't know. I don't know what the

1:02:35.360 --> 1:02:37.320
<v Speaker 1>reason for that is. You'd think you'd want him drinking

1:02:37.320 --> 1:02:40.400
<v Speaker 1>out of the moose. Maybe it's just because it's harder

1:02:40.440 --> 1:02:42.600
<v Speaker 1>to hold. I don't know.

1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:45.280
<v Speaker 3>Maybe it's to show in a subtle way that Clark

1:02:45.360 --> 1:02:49.320
<v Speaker 3>is actually coldly calculating in the scene, and he's not

1:02:49.400 --> 1:02:50.960
<v Speaker 3>as drunk as it would suggest.

1:02:51.680 --> 1:02:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a whole topic for another time, trying to

1:02:55.520 --> 1:02:58.880
<v Speaker 1>figure out Clark Griswold. How do we feel about Clark Griswold,

1:02:59.360 --> 1:03:02.680
<v Speaker 1>about his his motivations and his desires in Christmas Vacation.

1:03:04.120 --> 1:03:12.440
<v Speaker 3>Clark is neutral, evil cousin cousin Randy Quaid, I'd say chaotic.

1:03:12.040 --> 1:03:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Neutral, Yeah, I think so. All right, So again, not

1:03:15.880 --> 1:03:19.040
<v Speaker 1>really a Ryton in Christmas Vacation. But I think we

1:03:19.160 --> 1:03:22.800
<v Speaker 1>might well imagine a scene from an alternate dimension in

1:03:22.840 --> 1:03:26.520
<v Speaker 1>which there's a scene in Christmas Vacation in which Clark

1:03:26.560 --> 1:03:31.800
<v Speaker 1>Griswold holds aloft the Mighty Wally the moose Ryton, this

1:03:32.080 --> 1:03:36.120
<v Speaker 1>big glass moose head or perhaps it's silver in this scenario,

1:03:36.200 --> 1:03:40.280
<v Speaker 1>a big silver moosehead. Perhaps you grip it by the antlers,

1:03:40.480 --> 1:03:43.760
<v Speaker 1>and he's allowing cousin Eddie to then drink nourishing nod

1:03:44.120 --> 1:03:46.760
<v Speaker 1>from the lips of the moose before he sends him

1:03:46.760 --> 1:03:51.360
<v Speaker 1>out into glorious battle against the enemies of Christmas. Bravo.

1:03:52.360 --> 1:03:53.280
<v Speaker 1>All right, that's all I have.

1:03:56.480 --> 1:03:58.960
<v Speaker 3>God bless us everyone, Yes, I.

1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Will say, also, fortunately finished my eggnog before we got

1:04:02.320 --> 1:04:06.400
<v Speaker 1>to the draining of abscesses. So hopefully that calibrates the

1:04:06.440 --> 1:04:09.720
<v Speaker 1>podcast episode for anyone out there who's like, oh, well,

1:04:09.880 --> 1:04:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Rob's having an eggnog, I should have an eggnog for

1:04:12.320 --> 1:04:15.280
<v Speaker 1>this listening experience. I hope that you too, were finished

1:04:15.280 --> 1:04:16.920
<v Speaker 1>before the abscesses were drained.

1:04:17.600 --> 1:04:19.480
<v Speaker 3>Why are you saying that, Rob? Are you saying that?

1:04:19.520 --> 1:04:22.280
<v Speaker 3>Otherwise it would suggest the mental image that your glass

1:04:22.320 --> 1:04:26.440
<v Speaker 3>of creamy mixture is what's out coming out of the abscess.

1:04:26.440 --> 1:04:31.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that it is a goblet of holiday puss, which

1:04:31.720 --> 1:04:34.520
<v Speaker 1>you might be drinking from the glass ahead of a moose,

1:04:34.640 --> 1:04:37.479
<v Speaker 1>which doesn't help, or from the lips of a moose.

1:04:37.560 --> 1:04:40.200
<v Speaker 3>Right on, I guess Merry Christmas everybody.

1:04:40.880 --> 1:04:42.400
<v Speaker 1>All right, Yeah, we're going to go and close it

1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:44.040
<v Speaker 1>out here, but we'd love to hear from everyone out

1:04:44.040 --> 1:04:45.880
<v Speaker 1>there if you have. I mean a lot of people

1:04:45.880 --> 1:04:48.160
<v Speaker 1>out there are going to have some sort of holiday

1:04:48.200 --> 1:04:52.480
<v Speaker 1>tradition involving some manner of eggnog. We didn't really have

1:04:52.520 --> 1:04:54.560
<v Speaker 1>time to get into all the variations, but I know

1:04:54.600 --> 1:04:57.600
<v Speaker 1>there are some. I think I've had like a Puerto

1:04:57.680 --> 1:05:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Rican variation of eggnog before. It was quite delightful. There's

1:05:01.840 --> 1:05:06.920
<v Speaker 1>so many different regional variations, family variations. Please write in.

1:05:06.960 --> 1:05:08.760
<v Speaker 1>We'd love to hear your take on all of this.

1:05:09.400 --> 1:05:11.840
<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, we'll remind you that Stuff to Blow

1:05:11.880 --> 1:05:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Your Mind is a science podcast, with our core episodes

1:05:15.040 --> 1:05:17.919
<v Speaker 1>on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Wednesdays we do a short

1:05:17.920 --> 1:05:19.880
<v Speaker 1>form artifact or monster fact. On Mondays we do a

1:05:19.920 --> 1:05:22.240
<v Speaker 1>listener mail episode, and on Fridays we set aside most

1:05:22.280 --> 1:05:24.520
<v Speaker 1>serious concerns and just talk about a weird film on

1:05:24.680 --> 1:05:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Weird House Cinema.

1:05:26.520 --> 1:05:30.760
<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks to our audio producer, Max Williams. If you

1:05:30.760 --> 1:05:33.120
<v Speaker 3>would like to get in touch with us with feedback

1:05:33.120 --> 1:05:35.480
<v Speaker 3>on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic

1:05:35.520 --> 1:05:37.560
<v Speaker 3>for the future, or just to say hello, you can

1:05:37.640 --> 1:05:41.000
<v Speaker 3>email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

1:05:41.200 --> 1:05:45.920
<v Speaker 3>dot com.

1:05:43.680 --> 1:05:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1:05:53.200 --> 1:05:55.959
<v Speaker 2>more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1:05:56.120 --> 1:06:13.080
<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.