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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. It is

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Speaker 1: Christmas Eve for many of you, and so we're off

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Speaker 1: this week. Instead of a new episode, we have an

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Speaker 1: older episode, this one originally published twelve fifteen, twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: It is our invention style episode on eggnog. Get into

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Speaker 1: the history of agnog and a little bit into the

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Speaker 1: science of eggnog as well. So let's pour up a

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Speaker 1: glass and sip it down.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. It's that time

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Speaker 1: of year again, and by that time, I mean it

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Speaker 1: is the holidays. We're knee deep, perhaps waste deep in

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Speaker 1: the holidays, and there's no going back. We might as

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Speaker 1: well just push forward at this point, like it's just

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Speaker 1: as much just as much effort to keep going as

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Speaker 1: it would be to turn back. So once more, we

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Speaker 1: have a holiday episode for you. It's actually going to

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Speaker 1: be our third installment in our Holiday Invention series, where

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Speaker 1: we more or less give the Invention treatment to various

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Speaker 1: holiday decorations, traditions, and toys. This year, we're going to

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Speaker 1: be looking in earnest at eggnog.

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Speaker 3: Is eggnog an invention? Sure, we can stretch the definition.

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Speaker 3: I think that's okay.

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Speaker 1: I think so. I mean, we did an invention, a

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Speaker 1: full blown invention episode about the Matai, which we you know,

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Speaker 1: we had Jeff Beach bombarry on as a guest to

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Speaker 1: talk about that. Eggnog is not something that occurs naturally

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Speaker 1: in the world. It must be made at some point.

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Speaker 1: There had to be a first or something like a first,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we'll get into that. And it's one

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Speaker 1: of those things that has a number of different customs

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Speaker 1: and cold details surrounding it. Now, Joe, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what your relationship with eggnog happens to be, because I

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Speaker 1: don't know that we've ever really spoken about this. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we've had eggnog together before, not that I recall,

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Speaker 1: but my family's general approach is originally buy a carton

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Speaker 1: of almond nog each year, largely for our son because

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Speaker 1: he gets super into it. And if I have a

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Speaker 1: chance to visit a like an upscale cocktail place or

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Speaker 1: a nice restaurant, then I will jump at the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to order an eggnog. If they have one on the menu.

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Speaker 1: In the past, I've made it down to New Orleans

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Speaker 1: for the start of beach Bumberry Sippings Santa Festivities at

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Speaker 1: beach Bumberry's Latitude twenty nine. They also have pop ups

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Speaker 1: all over the place, and they'll generally have at least

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Speaker 1: one holiday teaki beverage on there that is at least

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Speaker 1: eggnog esque.

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Speaker 3: In form I'm picturing piles of crushed or pellet ice

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Speaker 3: with kind of a frothy, creamy rye about them, and

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Speaker 3: some nutmeg sprinkled over top.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the nutmeg, as we'll discuss, is pretty essential.

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Speaker 1: So I did make it down there this year, but

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Speaker 1: I did make it over to a tiki bar in

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Speaker 1: our area, Decatur's Sos t Bar, and I enjoyed a

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Speaker 1: frozen take on a classic eggnog. Generally a rich drink,

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Speaker 1: though so once twice three times per year max. That's

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Speaker 1: generally enough from me. Uh huh. Now. Before we came

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Speaker 1: in here, though, I mentioned to my wife that I

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Speaker 1: was about to record the eggnog episode, and she was

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Speaker 1: kind enough to provide me with an entire glass of

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Speaker 1: eggnog here for me to consume during this episode. The

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Speaker 1: listeners at home. You'll have to take my word for it, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I think you can see it on the video feed here.

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Speaker 3: Wait, is this full booze eggnog?

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Speaker 1: Or well you might well presume that, but I couldn't

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Speaker 1: possibly comment. Yes, creamy, rich, hint of.

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Speaker 3: Nutmeg, beautiful, I have no eggnog in the house. A cute,

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Speaker 3: cute Joe Peshi and Home Alone saying eggnog, eggnog dressed

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Speaker 3: as a cop like eggnog is the most disgusting substance

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Speaker 3: on Earth. And you know what, as a child, that

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Speaker 3: was pretty much where my head was at. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: Joe Peshi in Home Alone is correct. I found the

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Speaker 3: idea revolting, not just revolting, I think, I I think

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Speaker 3: I probably found it borderline nauseating to think of a

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Speaker 3: drink made out of eggs. Something changed over the years.

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Speaker 3: Now I find it quite delightful.

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Speaker 1: So was the eggs that threw you off?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well you're gonna drink eggs. I don't know. So

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Speaker 3: I think about eggs. There's something that, you know, I

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Speaker 3: liked eggs scrambled like they make them at the cracker barrel.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm thinking of like a thick, yellow curd

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Speaker 3: like substance, and always in savory context. I mean, I know,

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Speaker 3: obviously now that eggs are used in all kinds of

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Speaker 3: baking and sweet contexts, but that's not how I thought

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Speaker 3: about them when I was a kid. So the idea

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Speaker 3: of drink thinking a sweet egg based beverage was absolutely

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Speaker 3: vile to my brain.

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Speaker 1: I can understand that. I mean, especially even the name

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Speaker 1: is a bit potentially off putting. It's very forward with

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Speaker 1: the egg. What you were about to drink contains eggs,

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Speaker 1: and then the nog also can throw one for a curve.

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Speaker 1: I do like some of the archaic spellings of eggnog

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Speaker 1: that I've encountered researching this episode. Oftentimes the way we

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Speaker 1: encounter it now it's egg n og, but some of

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Speaker 1: these other spellings will be egg n ogg. I like

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Speaker 1: the double g's occurring in both parts of the world.

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Speaker 3: That's just symmetry. That's good branding.

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Speaker 1: Yes, now, before we proceed, I guess we should go

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Speaker 1: ahead and drive home exactly what eggnog is. We've alluded

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Speaker 1: to it a little bit already, but technically it's a

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Speaker 1: milk egg drink or a milk egg punch and we've

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Speaker 1: of course reached the points as a civilization where you

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Speaker 1: can have something that is identified as a nog without

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Speaker 1: the presence of egg or dairy. But historically this is

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Speaker 1: the realm from which this beverage arises.

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Speaker 3: Right, So you're you mentioned almond nog. I guess that

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Speaker 3: is equivalent in the same way that you might have

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Speaker 3: almond milk. It is a substitute for milk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, though I guess it's even more like some people

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Speaker 1: get up in arms, especially the dairy industry. I know

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Speaker 1: about things that are not milk calling themselves milk. And

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Speaker 1: even more to the point, I guess something like a

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Speaker 1: soy nog or an almond nog is going to have

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Speaker 1: neither eggs nor dairy, and so it is even further removed.

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Speaker 1: But yet it's still very much in the spirit of

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Speaker 1: of of the classic nog. So I think it more

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Speaker 1: than qualifies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, nog is a thick, creamy, sweet drink.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's a state of mind. It's it's it's a

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Speaker 1: holiday tradition. Now, one of the sources I'm going to

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Speaker 1: refer back to several times in this episode is the

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Speaker 1: excellent book Imbibe exclamation Point by David Wandriche, which is

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Speaker 1: a text that we've referenced in the show in the past.

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Speaker 1: It is one of, if not the best books you

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Speaker 1: can pick up on the history of the American cocktail.

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Speaker 1: This is a great book. It cites, among many others,

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Speaker 1: the legendary professor Jerry Thomas, who lived eighteen thirty through

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty five, the New Orleans bartender who wrote the

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Speaker 1: Seminole Bartender's Guide and helped popularize cocktail drinking in general.

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Speaker 1: I think we're go into more depth on this in

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Speaker 1: an older episode or episodes that we did together on Mixology.

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Speaker 3: I think we ended up talking about absinthe a lot

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Speaker 3: in those.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that would make sense. And I know Jerry Thomas

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Speaker 1: also comes up in the recent episode on ice the

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Speaker 1: interview that I did. But according to Wondrich, basic milk

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Speaker 1: punches go back to the late sixteen hundreds and to

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Speaker 1: give you an example of what a milk punch consists of,

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Speaker 1: and again this is not an egg milk punch. This

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Speaker 1: is just a milk punch. Wondrich includes a recipe from

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Speaker 1: Jerry Thomas. Jerry Thomas would have you know, brought up

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Speaker 1: together bunch of these different recipes for drinks and put

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Speaker 1: them in his own book at the time. This particular

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Speaker 1: recipe from Jerry Thomas calls for sugar water, brandy, rum,

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Speaker 1: and shaved ice, A little nutmeg goes on top, and

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Speaker 1: Wandritch includes a quote from This is an eighteen seventy

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Speaker 1: three quote from the Brooklyn Eagle that states that this

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Speaker 1: punch was quote the surest thing in the world to

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Speaker 1: get drunk on, and so fearfully drunk that you won't

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Speaker 1: know whether you are a cow yourself or some other

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Speaker 1: foolish thing.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm, that's that's good.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 3: One thing I have to point out is that when

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Speaker 3: you listed the ingredients, you did not list milk. So

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Speaker 3: I assume these are the things that are added to

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Speaker 3: the milk.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, okay, yeah. The milk would would also be

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Speaker 1: be an important part of this. So already we're kind

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Speaker 1: of in the territory of what we think of when

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Speaker 1: we think about eggnog, but of course there are no

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Speaker 1: eggs there now. When it comes to eggnog itself. Thomas

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Speaker 1: was very much of the opinion that eggnog was quote

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Speaker 1: a beverage of American origin, and Wondrich states that quote

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Speaker 1: the drink's earliest mentions come from a seventeen eighty eight

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia newspaper, and all the other mentions are American, and

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Speaker 1: if early European travelers to the United States viewed it

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Speaker 1: as one of the novelties Americans were inflicting on the

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Speaker 1: art of drinking. By the eighteen sixties, it was a

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Speaker 1: drink of comfortable middle age with a wide, if strictly

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Speaker 1: seasonal popularity. When Thomas added that in the North quote

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Speaker 1: it is a favorite of all seasons, he was certainly

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Speaker 1: overstating the case.

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Speaker 3: So you bring up that mention in the seventeen eighty

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Speaker 3: eight newspaper, and this name drop of eggnog as a

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Speaker 3: recipe is also referenced in a great source I found

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Speaker 3: that was aimed at unearthing the etymological history of egnog,

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Speaker 3: because it's obvious why the word egg is in the name.

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Speaker 3: There are eggs in it, But what exactly is anog? Could,

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Speaker 3: as the Simpsons propose, do you equally whip up a

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Speaker 3: cauldron of corn nog?

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Speaker 1: Cornog sounds kind of delicious, like it brings to mind

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Speaker 1: like corn puddings.

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Speaker 3: I think it occurs in the Simpsons episode with the Hurricane,

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Speaker 3: when the stores are there's a run on the quickie

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Speaker 3: mart and the only things left on the shelves are

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Speaker 3: corn nog and wadded beef. But anyway, diving into the

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Speaker 3: history and etymology of eggnog or corn nog whatever, what

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Speaker 3: have you? Any nogs? My source here is a December

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Speaker 3: two thousand and nine article called the Origins of Eggnog

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Speaker 3: Holiday Grog by the American linguist and language columnist Ben Zimmer,

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Speaker 3: who is brother of the excellent science writer Karl Zimmer,

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Speaker 3: who's been a guest on.

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Speaker 1: The show before Huh Crazy.

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Speaker 3: So here's what Ben Zimmer says about nog. The word

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Speaker 3: noog first shows up as a regional term in England,

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Speaker 3: specifically in the region of East Anglia, so it's the

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Speaker 3: eastern part of the country containing Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire,

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Speaker 3: and it referred that term. They are referred to a

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Speaker 3: type of beer. We know this because of a letter

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Speaker 3: written from the County of Norfolk in the year sixteen

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Speaker 3: ninety three by a man named Humphrey Prideaux, who described

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Speaker 3: quote a bottle of old strong beer, which in this

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Speaker 3: country they call nog. So nog is high gravity beer.

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Speaker 3: It's strong stuff, but to take one step back, why

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Speaker 3: would the East Anglians call strong beer nog? Zimmer identifies

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Speaker 3: a couple of hypotheses here. One is that it comes

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Speaker 3: from the word noggin, which we today think of as

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Speaker 3: antiquated slang for head for your head. But before that

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Speaker 3: nogin meant a small mug or a small drink of spirits.

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Speaker 3: So perhaps noggin was shorter, was shortened to nog, and

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Speaker 3: it came to refer to the beer inside the mug

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Speaker 3: instead of the mug itself. And we do that kind

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Speaker 3: of metonymy with words today like did you have wine? Oh,

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Speaker 3: I drank two glasses. You're not saying you literally drank

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Speaker 3: the glass. The glasses mean the wine inside the glass, right.

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Speaker 3: But another idea is that the word nog for strong

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Speaker 3: beer comes from a Scottish word nug or nuged ale,

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Speaker 3: which means ale that you heat up by sticking a

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Speaker 3: hot poker in it, which is funny enough to imagine

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Speaker 3: in itself, but I can also see how that would

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Speaker 3: correspond to a drink with strong alcohol alcohol content, because

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Speaker 3: drinks with higher alcohol content are often said to taste

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Speaker 3: warm or even to burn.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm, yeah, this is this is interesting. It brings to mind,

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Speaker 1: you know, the images of some of these older drinks

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Speaker 1: where you'd you would you would stick the hot poker

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Speaker 1: or some sort of hot metal into it. I think

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Speaker 1: there's a scene in the excellent TV series The Nick

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Speaker 1: where you see some of the characters getting a drink

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Speaker 1: of this fashion.

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Speaker 3: M Okay, So so far, we've got the idea that

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Speaker 3: you start with either a little mug called a noggin

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Speaker 3: or a type of beer warmed with a hot poker

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Speaker 3: called a nug And somehow one of these terms gets

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Speaker 3: poured it over into this East Anglian word nog, which

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Speaker 3: means strong beer. But how does that actually get connected

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Speaker 3: to the sweet, milky, eggy drink we are familiar with.

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Speaker 3: We don't know for sure, but the link in the

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Speaker 3: chain seems to be alcohol. Because while you can buy

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Speaker 3: kid friendly nog in the dairy issle these days, everything

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Speaker 3: I've been reading suggests that early eggnog was boozy. That

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Speaker 3: was a primary characteristic of what the noog was. It

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Speaker 3: had a lot of alcohol in it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, that's exactly what I saw in all of

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Speaker 1: my research. Nobody's talking about eggnog is something that is

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Speaker 1: then spiked it is inherently spiked.

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Speaker 3: And Zimmer reports that a Maryland clergyman named Jonathan Bouchet

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Speaker 3: is alleged to have written the first known reference to

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Speaker 3: eggnog a poem in seventeen seventy five, but this poem

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Speaker 3: was not published until about thirty years later, so we

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Speaker 3: don't know when it was actually written for sure. But

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Speaker 3: the relevant section of the poem goes like this, fog

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Speaker 3: DRAMs in the morn or better still eggnog. This is

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Speaker 3: nog with two g's at night hot suppings and at

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Speaker 3: midday grog my palate can regale. So you see the

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Speaker 3: context here is fully alcoholic grog refers to a spirit

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Speaker 3: or alcoholic beverage. Then there's that line, fog DRAMs in

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Speaker 3: the morn or better still eggnog. A dram usually refers

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Speaker 3: to a small drink of whiskey, and according to Miriam Webster,

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Speaker 3: fog DRAMs are quote DRAMs resorted to on the pretense

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Speaker 3: of their protecting from the danger of fog. I'm sorry, boss,

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Speaker 3: I had to have another whiskey before work, or the

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Speaker 3: fog could have killed me on the way here.

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Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, this is making sense. Is an early

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Speaker 1: morning drink though, because you get your fog protection, you

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Speaker 1: get a couple of eggs in there. Maybe you know

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Speaker 1: this is a breakfast that you're drinking down exactly.

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Speaker 3: So Bouchet may have written that in seventy seventy five.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to say for sure, but according to Zimmer,

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Speaker 3: the earliest at rock solid references to eggnog where we

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Speaker 3: know the date of their publication, appear in a handful

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Speaker 3: of newspapers in the year seventeen eighty eight, as you

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Speaker 3: mentioned earlier. Now one is a March seventeen eighty eight

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Speaker 3: report in the New Jersey Journal, which and I love

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Speaker 3: that this is what some newspaper articles consisted of at

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Speaker 3: the time. It says, a young man with a cormorant

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Speaker 3: appetite meaning like gluttonous, A young man with a cormorant

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Speaker 3: appetite voraciously devoured last week at Connecticut farms, thirty raw eggs,

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Speaker 3: a glass of eggnog, and another of brandy sling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is this what newspapers were back in the day?

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Speaker 1: Did you have like a gluttony page? Fore you're like,

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Speaker 1: what's everybody overeating in New Jersey?

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Speaker 3: Stop the presses. We've got to get this story. This

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Speaker 3: hot story about the guy who ate thirty eggs in there. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so whatever eggnog is at the time, he had some

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Speaker 3: Another article is from October seventeen eighty eight in the

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Speaker 3: Independent Gazetteer of Philadelphia, where a writer was complaining about

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Speaker 3: an upset stomach and wrote, quote, when wine and beer,

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Speaker 3: punch and eggnog meat instantly ensues a.

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Speaker 1: Quarrel, there's wisdom to that.

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Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, I've only ever heard the liquor before

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Speaker 3: beer kind of thing. I've never heard it taken out

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Speaker 3: to four different things with like punch and eggnog in there.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were looking back at a time when

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Speaker 1: drinking was a little more robust throughout the country.

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Speaker 3: I think. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I love the fact

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Speaker 3: that newspapers not only used to report on what some

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Speaker 3: guy aded a form, but also what gave me an

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Speaker 3: upset tummy. So it sounds like an alcoholic beverage known

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Speaker 3: as eggnog was in common parlance in the colonies and

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Speaker 3: the young United States in the late eighteenth century. But

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Speaker 3: Zimmer also documents how an early example of eggnog was

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Speaker 3: associated with Christmas celebration by citing a piece in the

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Speaker 3: Virginia Chronicle from January seventeen ninety three, which reads as follows.

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Speaker 3: On last Christmas Eve, several gentlemen met at Northampton Courthouse

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Speaker 3: and spent the evening in mirth and festivity when eggnog

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Speaker 3: was the principal liquor used by the company. After they

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Speaker 3: had indulged pretty freely in this beverage, a gentleman in

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Speaker 3: the company offered a bet that not one of the

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Speaker 3: party could write four verses extempore, which should be rhyme

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Speaker 3: and sense. Okay, He's like, we're so drunk, I bet

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Speaker 3: none of you can write four lines of poetry that

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Speaker 3: will make sense and rhyme. So what do they come

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Speaker 3: on up with?

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Speaker 1: Will?

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Speaker 3: One guy belts out the following 'tis eggnog now, whose

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Speaker 3: golden streams dispense far richer treasures to the ravished sense

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Speaker 3: the muse from wine derives a transient glare, but Eggnog's

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Speaker 3: drafts afford her solid fare. So move over, wine. The

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Speaker 3: muses are no longer interested in you now they will

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Speaker 3: only be singing to people who are chug and agnog.

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Speaker 1: Eggnog doesn't seem to have a personification, though, like there's

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Speaker 1: no like Satyr of eggnog.

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Speaker 3: Right, the Dionysus of eggnog.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose it's you know, he was before its time.

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Speaker 1: I think he would have approved of eggnog, especially based

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Speaker 1: on these historical references to agnog.

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Speaker 3: So do we know exactly what they were putting in

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Speaker 3: eggnog at the time. Well, there's a book from seventeen

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Speaker 3: ninety nine called Travels through the States of North America

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Speaker 3: and the Provinces of Upper and Lower Canada during the

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Speaker 3: years seventy ninety five ninety six ninety seven by an

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Speaker 3: Irish writer and explorer named Isaac Weld, And this passage

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Speaker 3: actually reminds me of earlier when you were citing I

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Speaker 3: think David Wondrich who said that sometimes people from Europe

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Speaker 3: might encounter eggnog and think, oh what, you know, what

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Speaker 3: crimes they're committing against a drinking culture here in the Americas.

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Speaker 3: And I wonder if there's a little bit of that

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Speaker 3: kind of raised eyebrow going on in this passage. But

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Speaker 3: we'll see what you think. So Weld is writing about

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Speaker 3: a stop at an inn near Baltimore, Maryland, where he writes, quote,

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Speaker 3: several travelers had stopped at the same house that I

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Speaker 3: did the first night I was on the road, and

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Speaker 3: we all breakfasted together preparatory to setting out the next morning.

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Speaker 3: The American travelers, before they pursued their journey, took a

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Speaker 3: hearty draft each. According to custom of eggnog, a mixture

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Speaker 3: composed of new milk, eggs, rum, and sugar beat up together.

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Speaker 3: So eggnog it should be heavy, suite, exploding with alcohol,

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Speaker 3: drunk in large quantities in the morning before setting out

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Speaker 3: on a long journey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is I mean it really it forces you

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Speaker 1: to rethink egnog because I think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are probably like like me, You grew up exposed to again,

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Speaker 1: the grocery store eggnog, and there's this kind of sense

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Speaker 1: that egnog is this drink for everybody. Eggnog's this drink

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Speaker 1: for kids. And as you get older, then you're perhaps

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Speaker 1: in a situation where you can have the eggnog with

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Speaker 1: something added to it, eggnog plus you know, if you

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Speaker 1: like this. But the historical truth of egnog is no,

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Speaker 1: this is the thing that the really drunken adults are

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Speaker 1: having sometimes first thing in the morning.

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Speaker 3: Also regarding famous eggnog recipes from the early days, of

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Speaker 3: the United States. There is a famous recipe for eggnog

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Speaker 3: that is alleged to come from George Washington's kitchen papers.

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Speaker 3: You'll find this if you google George Washington's Eggnog. I've

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Speaker 3: seen some serious doubt cast upon its origins, like whether

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Speaker 3: it was actually Washington's. But according to the Farmer's Almanac,

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Speaker 3: this famous recipe goes as follows. It's one quart cream,

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Speaker 3: one quart milk, one dozen tablespoons sugar, one pint brandy,

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Speaker 3: half a pint rye whiskey, half a pint Jamaica rum,

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Speaker 3: and a quarter pint sherry. And then you mix the liquor.

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Speaker 3: Separate the yolks in the whites of twelve eggs, add

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Speaker 3: sugar to the beaten yolks. Mix well. Then you add

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Speaker 3: milk and cream, slowly beating. Beat the whites of the

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Speaker 3: eggs until stiff peaks form, then fold slowly into the mixture.

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Speaker 3: Then you let it sit in a cool place for

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Speaker 3: several days. Then quote taste frequently. And I could be wrong,

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Speaker 3: but I believe this is the recipe that our our

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Speaker 3: colleague Alex Williams uses when he makes his famous eggnog.

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Speaker 3: For all of our coworkers.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it definitely is. This is definitely the recipe he

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Speaker 1: would use, and it is quite delightful. But yeah, I

385
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Speaker 1: encountered the same thing. Looking at the actual history of this,

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Speaker 1: there's some doubt as to whether George Washington actually serve this.

387
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 1: And then there are some accounts that say, well, it

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Speaker 1: looks like maybe there's evidence that eggnog was served at

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Speaker 1: Mount Vernon, But as far as the precise recipe, I

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Speaker 1: don't know that there's a lot of data to back

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Speaker 1: that up. Yeah, though we will have we will touch

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Speaker 1: on at least one former US president who did have

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Speaker 1: a recipe for eggnog and did serve it and drink it.

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Speaker 1: All right, all this being said, before we proceed with egnog,

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Speaker 1: I think we can at least consider the possibility of

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Speaker 1: predecessors that, Yes, even if egnog is something that emerges

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Speaker 1: in North America, there are at least things not unlike

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Speaker 1: egnog that one can encounter, say in at least late

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Speaker 1: medieval and post medieval Europe.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, some gorgeous textures to imagine.

401
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's go back to the late Middle Ages

402
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Speaker 1: and drink some hard milk. So European holiday traditions, which

403
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 1: of course inform holiday traditions, and Colonial America and beyond

404
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: are a mix of Christian traditions, more ancient traditions, and

405
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Speaker 1: a great deal of regional variability. I was, in fact,

406
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Speaker 1: just researching the Hooden or Hoden Horse of Kent for

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Speaker 1: the Monster Fact series, and I think that's a great

408
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Speaker 1: example of this. It brings to mind various costume street

409
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Speaker 1: wandering traditions as well as caroling and was sailing. Wassaile,

410
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: of course, is a door to door ritualistic and communal

411
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: hot drink that typically contained mulled cider ale or wine

412
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 1: and spices. But then there is the tradition of the

413
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Speaker 1: passet posset the posset. Yes, the Smithsonian magazine website has

414
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Speaker 1: a nice article about this titled Past the Posset colon

415
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: the Medieval Eggnog by Lisa Brahman, and according to this article,

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Speaker 1: it apparently dates back to late medieval Europe, and it

417
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Speaker 1: looks like some of the examples come to us from

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Speaker 1: the post medieval world and beyond. Anyway, the passet itself

419
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: is a drinking vessel, as Brayman points out, and you

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Speaker 1: see mention of it even in Shakespeare's Macbeth, in which

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Speaker 1: Lady Macbeth poisons the possets of the guards outside Duncan's quarters.

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Speaker 3: Oh I forgot about that.

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Speaker 1: I had as well when when the author here brings

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Speaker 1: it up, I'm like, oh, yeah, I do remember that

425
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: line vaguely. But you encounter so many archaic courts if

426
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: you're reading or performing Shakespeare that you can't stop to wonder. Overall,

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00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 1: it's enough to be like, okay, this means drinking vessel. Okay,

428
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Speaker 1: what's the next strange word that doesn't quite register for me?

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Speaker 1: Let me translate that one in my head. But this

430
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: is a if you can actually look up examples of

431
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: this vessel online the pauset this posse e t, and

432
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: you'll find that some of the main examples of this

433
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: it looks curiously like an ornate teapot with handles on

434
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: both sides, a wide lidded aperture at the top, with

435
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: a with a with a lid on top, and the

436
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: stem for it, you know, like that like a tea kettle.

437
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: It feeds from the bottom of the vessel rather than

438
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: from the middle or the top of the vessel. M HM.

439
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: The reason for this design, according to Brayman is that

440
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: you can drink directly from the stem to get at

441
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: the liquid contents of the of the of the liquid

442
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: it contains, but also you can take the lid off

443
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: the top and go at the top of it with

444
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: a spoon, because basically you're gonna have a mixture of things.

445
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: You're gonna have a fluid beneath in kind of a

446
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: chonky chonky, creamy perhaps cheesy layer at the top.

447
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 3: So this is like it's like a curdled milk drink

448
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 3: that has that has cheesy, floaty solid bits on the

449
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 3: top you want to get with a spoon.

450
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: Yes, the way that Brayman describes it is quote both

451
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: a drink and a dessert with a layer of thick,

452
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: sweet gruel floating above the liquid. Okay, so okay. On

453
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: one hand, I realized that could potentially be interpreted as gross,

454
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I think it's not that

455
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: different from a lot of sort of frothy dessert things

456
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: we have today. I think about certain milkshakes, certain smoothies,

457
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: certainly especially the older school cappuccinos, where the foam cap

458
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: on top was maybe a little firmer, and you might

459
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: have to go at that with a spoon as opposed

460
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: to drinking it. So I kind of reject the idea

461
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: that this potential hygiene issues aside of late medieval ages,

462
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,479
Speaker 1: I don't think this is necessarily that gross of an

463
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: idea that you could have some sort of like a

464
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: thick portion on the top of your beverage that requires

465
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: a spoon. It's just like a little different to imagine

466
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: this bizarre container for its consumption. Though nowadays I do

467
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: want to point out we do have things like the

468
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: spoon straw, which is like a plastic usually like a

469
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: plastic straw and spoon combined so that you can do both.

470
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: They did not have this technology in the late medieval

471
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: period to my knowledge. Therefore they had to use a passet.

472
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it is the same principle as a straw,

473
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 3: which I don't find unusual. But I have to say,

474
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 3: it is funny to imagine somebody like drinking out of

475
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 3: the stem of a tea kettle.

476
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it does seem like you might burn your

477
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: mouth with this. So recorded recipes, many of these came later.

478
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: I believe they called if you were going to fill

479
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: the pauset, it would call for a great deal of

480
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: egg and cream. They might also call for beer, sugar,

481
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: and also thickening agents such as bread, biscuits, oatmeal, and

482
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: almond paste. In some cases, the upper portions are said

483
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: to take on a cheesey quality, which actually brings to

484
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: mind modern cheese milk tea drinks, which are quite delightful.

485
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: If you haven't had one, I know this is something

486
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: that can be kind of hard to imagine. Why should

487
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: my milk tea taste like cheese? Well, it's it's not

488
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: what you're imagining. If you're imagining something that turns your stomach.

489
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: It's not like chatdar cheese on the top of your tea.

490
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: It's something sweetier and creamier, but with that slight cheesy twist.

491
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: To it, not like provolone.

492
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: Right right now. I should also mention there are more

493
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: contemporary pauset dishes, such as you often see recipes for

494
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: something called a lemon pausset, but this seems somewhat more

495
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: refined compared to what is described here. This is not

496
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: something you drink out of a strange tea kettle. It's

497
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: something you spoon out of a dish. But is it eggnog? Well,

498
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: in many ways, if not most ways, no. But it

499
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: also sounds like the sort of thing that if you

500
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: were a time traveler from an eggnog having culture and

501
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: you went back to the late Midi Ages and you're like,

502
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: where's my eggnog and people are like, what are you

503
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: talking about? You might discover the posset and be like, oh,

504
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: well this will work, this will do. Now my holiday

505
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: is complete.

506
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a liquidy egg and milk or egg and

507
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: cream type thing.

508
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 1: Right, And I think it's not crazy to imagine that

509
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: this sort of precedent for this sort of drink and

510
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: the sort of taste sensations that it brings about, that

511
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: this could feed into the very American traditions that would,

512
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: according to Thomas, bring about the American eggnog.

513
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 3: So I assume after we get out of this early

514
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: period where mentions are scarce and don't really explain much

515
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: about eggnog except like the Irish guy who's clearly not

516
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 3: familiar with it, we get into a period where there

517
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,479
Speaker 3: is more extensive writing on eggnog, maybe like in actual

518
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 3: cookery manuals.

519
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot more material once you was

520
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: a certain point, And Wondrich has a whole chapter on

521
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: egg drinks In his book in by Is, he writes

522
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: it there quote neither punches nor part of the lineage

523
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: of cocktails, and this is also somewhat how Jerry Thomas

524
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: and the people of his day would have classified them.

525
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: One of the things that really amazed me about all this, though,

526
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: is that Wondredge points out that egg drinks were once

527
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: far more common and kind of a daily affair, but

528
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: that few survive today. This kind of comes back to

529
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: your example earlier about egg nog for breakfast, why not perfect,

530
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: keep the fog away, etc. Now, now I should point

531
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: out this is the two thousand and seven books, so

532
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if we've seen anything in the way

533
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: of a resurgence of egg drinks. It might be the case, though,

534
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: given the spirit of cocktail making and it's tend to

535
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: re explore older fashions and even remake them with modern twists,

536
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's tremendously uncommon to find at

537
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: least a single egg drink on a fancy cocktail menu,

538
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: though to be sure, you probably won't find them on

539
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: just random restaurant cocktail menus, like I don't know if

540
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: Chili's offers an egg drink.

541
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think, what are the standard egg drinks

542
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: other Well, I guess there are like drinks I don't

543
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 3: usually get, but like, aren't there like sours and fizzes

544
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 3: and stuff that have egg whites in them.

545
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wondred points out that the major survivors include the

546
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: nineteenth century Tom and Jerry drink. This would be not

547
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: getting into the proportions, but it's like sugar, eggs rum, cinnamon, cloves, allspice.

548
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: There's the sherry flip, which is basically egg, sugar and sherry,

549
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: and he discusses his elsewhere in the book. But of

550
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: course there's the Ramos gin Fizz, which is pretty famous

551
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,479
Speaker 1: New Orleans drink that contains gin, simple syrup, lemon juice,

552
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: lime juice, egg white, heavy cream, orange flower water, and

553
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: club soda. It's one that famously requires a great deal

554
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: of shaking. You may receive a dirty look from the

555
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: bartender when you order it because of all the shaking

556
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: it's going to require. Sometimes they have to pass it

557
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: off to another bartender to continue shake shaking it. But

558
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: it is also a delightful drink. But yeah, he Wonderage

559
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: points out though that that even though we only have

560
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: so many egg drinks that kind of survived. There was

561
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 1: this time where where egg based drinks, egg egg based

562
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: alcoholic drinks were consumed on pretty much a daily basis

563
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: and were as popular as eggnog drinks are during the

564
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: holiday year round. So just imagine, imagine a world in

565
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: which eggnog is stocked at the grocery store year round

566
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: to meet people's demand for it, and everybody's having it

567
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: boozed up. Not that they bought it at the grocery store,

568
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: they made it. You get my point.

569
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 3: That's that sounds like a magical time, a very rich,

570
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: rich time.

571
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. But as Paul Clark points out in the Imbibed

572
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: magazine article elements egg cocktails, changing tases and salmonella scares

573
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: pretty much chased raw eggs out of the bar. And

574
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: this would be kind of this would be the reason

575
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: that only so many egg drinks kind of survived this

576
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: period of time in which, on one hand, yet changing taste.

577
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: You can imagine, perhaps you know, there are new fads

578
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: in cocktails, new ingredients are more readily available for cocktails,

579
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: and then there's this whole issue of salmonella.

580
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 3: Salmonella concerns, of course, remain relevant to this day, and

581
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: we'll come back to those in just a few minutes now.

582
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: Wonder Ch also points out there was a great deal

583
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: of variation when it came to eggnog recipes, which I

584
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: imagine is going to be the case with any popular drink,

585
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: even if the recipe isn't secret. See the invention episode

586
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: we did about the my Tie for examples of this.

587
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: On both counts. If the recipe is secret, people are

588
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: going to try and recreate it. And even if the

589
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: secret is if there's no secret, if the recipe is

590
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: well known, you're going to end up having deviations anyway.

591
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: For instance, anywhere you go today the my Thie recipe,

592
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: there's no telling what a restaurant will actually serve you

593
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: if you order a my tie, even though the original

594
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: recipe is very well known at this point, or it's

595
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: it's very easily obtained if you have a desire to

596
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: seek it out. But these regional differences in eggnog, this

597
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: would this would really make people emotional. Wonderd show points

598
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: out this account where there's a judge who encountered eggnog

599
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: in an inn and it didn't have whiskey enough in it,

600
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: and therefore there was this huge altercation.

601
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean again, going back to stories about ends.

602
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 3: You don't say what time of day this is, but

603
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 3: this eggnog might have been his morning eggnog, which sets

604
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 3: the tone for the entire day. It's like, you know,

605
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 3: if you don't get your coffee right in the morning,

606
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 3: that's that's bad news.

607
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. If I don't get my heavily alcoholic eggnog in

608
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: the morning, I'm just I'm no good now. Sometimes those

609
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: regional differences, though, are going to be entirely based on

610
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: what is available to you. And a great example of

611
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: this is the Texian version of eggnog includesive recipe in

612
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: the book it is It stems. It stems from General

613
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: Thomas Green of the Army of the Texas Republic from

614
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: a teen forty three. The recipe serves about one hundred

615
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: and sixty. It calls for seven gallons of mes cow,

616
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: seven gallons of donkey milk, thirty dozen eggs, and a

617
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: large loaf of sugar.

618
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: I love that sugar used to come in loaves.

619
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, if you're making eggnog for one hundred and

620
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: sixty and a number of these recipes do call for

621
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: large vats of eggnog. But this this is quite a lot.

622
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: I mean, seven gallons of mezcal, seven gallons of donkey milk.

623
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 3: I've never tasted donkey milk. I don't even know.

624
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: What that would be like. I again two thousand and

625
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: seven book, But Wondrich mentioned that donkey milk was becoming

626
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: popular at the time in Europe due to this. I

627
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: supposedly it had some health advantages to it. I don't

628
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: know if that's true. I don't know if it's still

629
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: popular as an alternative milk. I don't think I've seen

630
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,959
Speaker 1: it in myself in health feed stores. But then again,

631
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: I'm not really in the market for donkey milk anyway. Well,

632
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: Wondrich roughly translates the recipe for modern drinkers in that book.

633
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: He of course says you can use cow milk instead

634
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: of donkey milk, and he also recommends grating a little

635
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: chocolate on top. So Jerry Thomas apparently chronicled six different

636
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: eggnog recipes, and wonder Rich includes recipes for three of

637
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: them in his book. Roughly speaking, these are the contents

638
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: of these three that he shares. There's Baltimore eggnog, eggs, sugar, nutmeg,

639
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: brandy or rum wine, egg whites, and milk. There's eggnog individual,

640
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: which calls for sugar, cold water, egg, cognac, Santa Cruz,

641
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 1: rum and milk. And then there's General Harrison's agnog. This

642
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: is ninth American President William Henry Harrison, and this was

643
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: said to be one of his favorites. It called for egg, sugar,

644
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: hard cider, and lumps of ice. Important to note here

645
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: that cider drinking was part of his brand. His whole

646
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: image that he tried to put out was like, I'm

647
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: not really at home in this Washington environment. I just

648
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: want to sit on the porch and drink some hard sider.

649
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: Won't you have some of my hardsider based eggnog and

650
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: vote for me? Yeah?

651
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: That was him saying like, I'm just a you know,

652
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 3: a hard working frontiersman. I'm not one of these elites.

653
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, I I appreciate hardsider,

654
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: but this sounds horrific. I don't think I would I

655
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: would want any part of this. So General Harrison, no,

656
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: thank you.

657
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: General Harrison also died about some like thirty days into

658
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 3: his first presidential term from Yeah, he's the one who

659
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: he didn't really make it very far, and their speculation

660
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 3: about why he died, But one of them is that

661
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 3: he may have succumbed to the fact that the water

662
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: supply at the White House at the time was heavily

663
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 3: contaminated with raw sewage.

664
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 1: Huh. Interesting. I had a whole tangent for this episode

665
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: about twelfth US President Zachary Taylor, who fell ill with

666
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: a fatal illness on July fourth of eighteen fifty after

667
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: a DC fundraiser that he attended where he quote drank

668
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: freely of iced water and chilled milk, according to biographer k.

669
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: Jack Bauer in the book Zachary Taylor's Soldier, Planter, Statesman

670
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: of the Old Southwest. So I've seen this described as

671
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: copious amounts of cherries and iced milk. Apparently he preferred

672
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: drinking chilled milk. That was his thing. That was the

673
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: hardest drink that Zachary Taylor was known to imbibe himself.

674
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: But I cut most of this out because he wasn't

675
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: drinking as far as I can tell, a cherry chilled

676
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: milk concoction. It was just chilled milk and then also

677
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: a lot of cherries.

678
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 3: And probably plenty of raw sewage.

679
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: Is it time for salmonella?

680
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's a great transition, so eggs salmonella. Salmonella

681
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 3: remains probably the main reason people have reservations about raw

682
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: egg based food and drinks today. Salmonella is a genus

683
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: of bacteria named not after salmon the fish, but after

684
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 3: an American veterinarian named Daniel Elmer Salmon. Though it was

685
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 3: not discovered by him, it was named after him basically

686
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 3: because a species of Salmonella was discovered by an assistant

687
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 3: in a lab who worked for salmon. The assistant's name

688
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 3: was Theobald Smith, but of course the boss gets all

689
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 3: the glory. Some zero types of salmonella are responsible for

690
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 3: really serious and historically significant diseases such as typhoid fever,

691
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 3: but multiple types of salmonilla will result in infections of

692
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 3: the intestinal tract. So salmonilla infection or salmonellosis, is one

693
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 3: of the most common food born illnesses, often characterized by fever, diarrhea,

694
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 3: severe stomach cramps, nausea, vomiting, and headache. And because salmonilla

695
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,479
Speaker 3: is often transmitted through the fecal oral route, the risk

696
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 3: of contracting it is higher when people don't have access

697
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 3: to clean drinking water and effective sewage disposal. Though, salmonella

698
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 3: can also be transmitted between animals and humans, so animal vectors,

699
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 3: such as eggs from infected chickens, can be a major

700
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 3: source of salmonellosis in humans as well. Now, on the

701
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 3: other hand, one thing to remember is that most eggs

702
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: are fine. Most eggs are not infected with salmonilla. I

703
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 3: don't know what the exact proportion is, but one figure

704
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: I saw kicking around from the two thousands was a

705
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 3: CDC estimate that roughly one in every twenty thousand chicken

706
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 3: eggs in the United States was contaminated. That number may

707
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 3: be different today. If so, it's probably somewhat lower than that.

708
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 3: But you know, I'm not say saying you should go

709
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: about eating raw eggs. There is definitely risk there, but

710
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 3: also like the odds are pretty low that any given

711
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 3: egg is going to make you sick. Also, eggs are

712
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 3: fine if you cook them to the proper temperature for

713
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 3: the proper time. One hundred and sixty degrees fahrenheit will

714
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 3: kill just about anything instantly. Also, you know, even lower temperatures,

715
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 3: if held for a sufficient amount of time, will be

716
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 3: enough to basically sterilize eggs. This is you can look

717
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 3: up charts on the amount of time eggs need to

718
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 3: spend at a certain temperature in order to make them safe. However,

719
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 3: eggnog is traditionally not made with eggs that are cooked

720
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 3: at all, but rather with raw ones. So is there

721
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 3: any risk, Well, yes, obviously if you are just drinking

722
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 3: raw eggs straight up, there is some risk of salmonilla infection.

723
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 3: One example of this, I mean it happens all the time,

724
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: but one example, one case study I dug up with

725
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 3: an interesting secondary finding. This is a study published in

726
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 3: The Lancet in nineteen seventy five by steer at All

727
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 3: called person to person spread of Salmonella typhimurium after a

728
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 3: hospital common source outbreak. So the abstract reads, in September

729
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy three, diarrhea caused by Salmonella typhemurium developed in

730
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: thirty two people in a main hospital. Both epidemiological and

731
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 3: microbiological evidence indicated that raw egg beaten in milk for

732
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: eggnog was responsible for the infection. However, six patients and

733
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 3: eight employees had not had eggnog, and their illness developed

734
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 3: after the source of infection had been recognized and removed.

735
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: Most of these people had had direct contact with an

736
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 3: infected patient and presumably acquired the infection by person to

737
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 3: person spread. It's concluded that person to person spread of

738
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 3: Salmonilla typhemurium can occur in hospitals in Cambia hazard to

739
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 3: patients and staff. So initially a bunch of people in

740
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 3: the hospital got salmonella from drinking eggnog, but then those

741
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 3: people gave secondary infections to others who didn't even touch

742
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 3: the nog. Also, I wanted to share another medical journal

743
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 3: article I found just because I thought it was very weird.

744
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 3: This is called Eyelid absess in an Eggnog Drinker by

745
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 3: Marcus and Wolverson, published in the British Medical Journal nineteen

746
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 3: eighty nine. Short story is a seventy two year old

747
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 3: man showed up at a hospital in England with a

748
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 3: huge abscess swelling on his left upper eyelid, which they

749
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 3: eventually determined had spread to an infection of the bone

750
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 3: in his forehead, the bone above where his eye was.

751
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 3: So he was put under general anesthesia and the absess

752
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: was drained. They did a culture of the pus and

753
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 3: it revealed the presence of a type of salmonella. They

754
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 3: eventually did another procedure to take care of the swelling

755
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 3: in the bones of the face, and he eventually made

756
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 3: a full recovery. The man had no gastrointestinal symptoms, and

757
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 3: the authors say that there had been recent cases of

758
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 3: salmonilla infection related to eggs, so they asked him about

759
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 3: his diet, and here I'm going to read from the

760
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: case report. His diet consisted of West Indian and European food,

761
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 3: but he said that he cooked all eggs well. When

762
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 3: he was seen in the outpatient department, he was specifically

763
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 3: asked if he drank eggnog, and he then admitted drinking

764
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 3: it frequently, using a recipe of raw eggs, brandy, sugar, milk,

765
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 3: and vanilla essence. Now, the authors say they could find

766
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 3: no previous evidence of this particular type of salmonella causing

767
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 3: an eyelid absess, but that there are other known cases

768
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 3: of this bacterial infection spreading from a gut infection originally

769
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 3: to a secondary infection elsewhere in the body, such as

770
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 3: in the bones, actually the long bones, especially in patients

771
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 3: with underlying medical conditions and in patients over seventy years

772
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: of age. And finally, the author's write quote, from nineteen

773
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 3: eighty one to nineteen eighty six, the proportion of salmonella

774
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 3: infections caused by salmonella, and then they're talking about a

775
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 3: specific type here, Salmonella in teriditis rose from eleven percent

776
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 3: to twenty eight percent. This rise was due mainly to

777
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 3: a rise in phage type four infections. Transmission of this

778
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 3: phage type has been increasingly associated with poultry, and it

779
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 3: is now known to be transmitted in eggs. Egg born

780
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 3: Salmonilla in teroditis is destroyed by thorough cooking. The raw

781
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 3: egg in the eggnog may have been the vehicle of infection.

782
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: Unless specifically asked for, a history of eggnog drinking may

783
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 3: not emerge on dietary questioning. But okay, now, I'm sure

784
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:01,280
Speaker 3: a lot of people out there are wondering, Wait a minute. Okay, obviously,

785
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 3: you know you mix up a bunch of raw eggs

786
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 3: and you just drink that, that definitely is putting you

787
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: at risk. But if you put alcohol in the eggnog,

788
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 3: surely that would be safe. Right? Doesn't alcohol kill germs?

789
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah? And we're talking a lot of alcohol in some

790
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: of these recipes.

791
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 3: Now, frustratingly, I have not been able to put together

792
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 3: a very clear answer on the exact relationship between alcohol

793
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 3: content and raw egg safety. Instead, I've sort of assembled

794
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 3: some different conflicting data points, but I'll share a few

795
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 3: of the results I came across. So one thing I

796
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 3: found is a study in the International Journal of Food

797
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 3: Microbiology published in nineteen ninety called survival of pathogenic micro

798
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 3: organisms in an eggnog like product containing seven percent ethanol.

799
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 3: This is by notermans at all, so this is a

800
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 3: lab test. They say, let's make some boozy eggnog and

801
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 3: direct inject pathogenic microorganisms in there and see what happens.

802
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 3: So they say a liquor consisting of whole egg sacros

803
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 3: meaning sugar twenty five percent and ethanol of seven percent

804
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 3: was artificially contaminated with Salmonella teriditis, Salmonilla, typhomurium, Staphylococcus aureus,

805
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 3: three different strains, Basillus sirius, and Listeria. And they say,

806
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: after three weeks of incubation at twenty two degrees celsius,

807
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 3: twenty two degrees celsius is about seventy one degrees fahrenheit

808
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 3: room temperature, the numbers of salmonilla, Staphylococcus aureus and and

809
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 3: of the Listeria species they use decreased by more than

810
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 3: three log base ten units, and if I understand correctly,

811
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 3: I believe that's a ninety nine point nine percent reduction

812
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,479
Speaker 3: in the number of bacteria units. There they say under

813
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 3: such conditions, however, the total number of my microorganisms increased

814
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 3: three log ten units. Then they say at four degrees celsius,

815
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 3: So I think this would be simulating refrigerator temperatures. The

816
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 3: decrease of pathogenic microorganisms was much slower, and a decrease

817
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 3: of three log based ten units was observed only after

818
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 3: seven weeks of incubation. So this study finds eggnog without

819
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 3: alcohol incubated at room temperature. Yeah, that's you allow populations

820
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 3: of salmonilla and staff to explode. But in this study,

821
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 3: the presence of seven percent straight ethanol significantly reduced the

822
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 3: amount of salmonilla, at staff and listeria over the course

823
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 3: of three weeks at room temperature and over the course

824
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 3: of seven weeks at fridge temperature. However, other microorganisms can grow.

825
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure this recipe for egnog that they used

826
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: is the doctor cushion catheter right recipe for agnog with

827
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: all of these added diseases.

828
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 3: M you can just imagine Christopher Lee drooling over it

829
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 3: while the Stanton Twins dance. But the amount of alcohol

830
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 3: clearly matters. One highly cited informal experiment. This was not

831
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 3: published in a scientific journal as far as I can tell,

832
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 3: but it was done and reported on by NPR for

833
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: Science Friday. It was done in the late two thousands

834
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 3: by microbiologists at the at Rockefeller University named Vince Faschetti

835
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,760
Speaker 3: and Raymond Schuck, and it was covered on Science Friday.

836
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 3: And apparently these researchers used a recipe that the staff

837
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 3: at the university would make every year, which originally traced

838
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 3: back to the great American microbiologist Rebecca Lancefield. So this

839
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 3: is her original eggnog recipe. She had worked at Rockefeller

840
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 3: University decades earlier. Apparently they're still making her eggnog years

841
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 3: after she passed away. And the recipe includes raw eggs

842
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 3: but also cream, sugar, and a lot of hard liquor.

843
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 3: The liquors in this version are bourbon and rum. NPR

844
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: reported that the alcohol concentration of the final drink was

845
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: about twenty percent. And the way they would do it

846
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 3: is every year they'd make it before Thanksgiving and then

847
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 3: enjoy it around Christmas time. So it had an incubation

848
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 3: period in the refrigerator of about six weeks. So for

849
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 3: this experiment, the researchers made their usual knog, but they

850
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 3: deliberately spiked it once again with salmonilla. Just you can

851
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 3: watch a video of this. They're just injecting this orange

852
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 3: juice into the eggs. It's disgusting, they say. They put

853
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 3: in the amount of salmonella you would expect from including

854
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 3: about somewhere between one and ten contaminated eggs, and then

855
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 3: they took samples at various stages of preparation and incubation

856
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 3: to see what grew over the course of the next

857
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 3: three weeks. So egg plus salmonella with no alcohol, that's

858
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: just it formed a solid mat of salmony, just huge boom,

859
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 3: millions of bacteria. Disgusting.

860
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: Hey, you can need your spoon and your posset for that.

861
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 3: One ugh egg plus salmonilla plus alcohol with the sample

862
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 3: taken immediately after mixing give you a modest reduction, but

863
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 3: still plenty of salmonilla growth. This would still absolutely make

864
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:20,240
Speaker 3: you sick. Egg plus salmonella plus alcohol, but one day

865
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 3: after mixing, still plenty of salmonilla, but less than the

866
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 3: one taken right after mixing. One week later, there was

867
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 3: noticeably less bacterial growth, but they said, still probably enough

868
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 3: to make you sick. But then the sample from three

869
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 3: weeks later there's nothing, no bacterial growth at all. So

870
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 3: somewhere between one week and three weeks this batch went

871
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 3: from biohazard to presumably safe. Though I noticed that the

872
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 3: Science Friday report made a joke about like the researchers

873
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 3: themselves are joking about this. They said, you know, we

874
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 3: could really commit to our result and just drink it,

875
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 3: but maybe not, which makes sense, right, like why risk it?

876
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,439
Speaker 3: And that kind of spirit comes through in a lot

877
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 3: of the other sources I've seen talking about whether alcohol

878
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 3: will render your eggnog safe, because it seems clear there's

879
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 3: evidence that at least in some cases, even if you

880
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 3: got unlucky enough in got a contaminated egg, given enough

881
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 3: alcohol and enough time, the nog would probably be safe.

882
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 3: But there are a lot of variables here, and so

883
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 3: it seems like a bunch of public health and food

884
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 3: safety sources are still cautious they're still kind of cagy

885
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 3: about giving the green light on this, and they default

886
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 3: to saying that if you want to be sure you're safe,

887
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 3: you should use pasteurized eggs from a carton which have

888
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 3: been rendered safe by preheating in the facility where they

889
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 3: were packaged, or they also recommend cooking the eggs. Basically

890
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 3: like sources citing experts at the FDA or the USDA

891
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 3: say that you can't always count on alcohol to kill

892
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 3: potential bacterial content of raw eggs, and if you want

893
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 3: to be safe, the eggs should be cooked. You can

894
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 3: do this by like mixing the eggs and milk together

895
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 3: and gently bringing up to one hundred and sixty degrees

896
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: fahrenheit while stirring to kill any possible bacterial content before

897
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 3: you add the other ingredients. So personally, I don't know

898
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 3: exactly where we are left here. I will say it

899
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 3: looks like some experiments do show that alcohol content will

900
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 3: at least often, maybe not always, but will at least

901
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 3: often neutralize the main bacteria that people are worried about,

902
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 3: meaning salmonilla, given enough alcohol and enough time. And I

903
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 3: will say that I also just speaking for myself, not

904
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 3: giving advice to other people. Have personally drunk eggnog made

905
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: in this way with raw eggs but with lots of

906
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 3: alcohol content, and personally I felt fine about it. But

907
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 3: it also looks like some experts still have concerns that

908
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 3: this might not always work, and caution that if you

909
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 3: want to make sure you're safe, you should cook your

910
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 3: eggs or use a past your eye product.

911
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 1: I mean this is also enough to make one rethink

912
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 1: eating raw cookie dough and so forth.

913
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, well, it's true, I guess of

914
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 3: anything with raw eggs in it, like, there is always

915
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 3: some small amount of risk. You know, some small proportion

916
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 3: of eggs out there are going to be infected. Most

917
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 3: eggs are fine, but some are going to have salmonella

918
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 3: in them, So you're always running that risk. And I guess,

919
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 3: I guess some of the difficulty comes from not just

920
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 3: whether or not you will accept the risk, but from

921
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 3: not knowing exactly how risky it is. Like you can't

922
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 3: come up, you don't have a number, you know, to say, like, Okay,

923
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 3: I have this percent chance of getting salmonilla if I

924
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 3: do this. Instead, you just have a vague sense that

925
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 3: I have some small chance, and I don't know exactly

926
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 3: what that chance is.

927
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: But in a way, that's it's the holiday season. It's

928
00:54:54,680 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: about it's about thinking about your chances of surviving a

929
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: winter festivity that is supposed to get you through the

930
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: darkest portion of the year and hopefully see about the

931
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: resurrection of the living world.

932
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 3: That's quite beautifully put. But on the other hand, I'll

933
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 3: just say, like, you know, if you're not your yeah,

934
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 3: just cook your eggs or just use the past yourized thing.

935
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: I mean, it's fine now. Last year on Stuft to

936
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: blow your mind, we did an entire episode looking at

937
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: the major award leg lamp from a Christmas Story, the

938
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties holiday classic film, and you know, looking at

939
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: this leg shaped lamp and finding predecessors to this in

940
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: the ancient world. In a similar way, I would like

941
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: to at the close of this episode on eggnog, consider

942
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighty nine holiday film Christmas Vacation, which of

943
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: course starred a great cast Chevy Chase, Beverly Dangelo, Randy Quaid,

944
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: among others. But there are at least a couple of

945
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,320
Speaker 1: key scenes in this movie in which the Griswold family

946
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: drinks eggnog from glass goblets made in the likeness of

947
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: the Wally World moose. These are you can actually buy

948
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: these now, this is an actual product. But in the

949
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: movie they are these little glass goblets and they have

950
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: big glass moose antlers on either side, and there's a

951
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: big droopy moose snout on the front. You hold it

952
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: by the ear and you sip your eggnog that way,

953
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: or you gulp it, as it happens to be the

954
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: case in some of the scenes.

955
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 3: I imagine the moose face has to be facing out or

956
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 3: else the snout would sort of prevent you from from

957
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 3: getting it to your lips.

958
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you'd have to hold the glass in just

959
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: the right way. It's a ceremonial vessel. And I started

960
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: looking around as thinking, I don't know, I don't know

961
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: if there's going to be something in the ancient world

962
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: that matches up with this. But luckily, once more, eighties

963
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 1: holiday movie prop design is in line with the manufacture

964
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: of artifacts in the ancient world. I would like to

965
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: discuss the ryton. This is generally spelled r hytn and

966
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: it is a style of head cup that appears in

967
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: various forms throughout the ancient world. According to Mara abd

968
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: El Maghwud al Kadi in Forms and Functions of rytons

969
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: in Ptotomaic Egypt. According to this author, they were likely

970
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: Persian in origin and were particularly popular during the Achaemenid

971
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: dynasty of five point fifty through three point thirty PCE.

972
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: You can look up images of the ryton and the

973
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: various versions of the ryton that appear in different times

974
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 1: and different cultures. One can roughly compare these to a

975
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: drinking horn, like you know, the hollowed horn of a beast,

976
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: but the design and function here is a little more involved.

977
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: So imagine a drinking horn in which the slender part

978
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: of the horn, the tapering part of the horn is

979
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: in the likeness of an animal's head or in the

980
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: front half of an animal. And we don't have time

981
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: in this episode to really dig into the variation and

982
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: the different cultural takes in this episode. But again, this

983
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 1: would have been a realistic drinking vessel. This would not

984
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: be something you would bust out, I would imagine for

985
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: your just everyday consumption. This would be for ceremonial drinking.

986
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: And there are essentially two types of ryton. In one form,

987
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: you drink from the slender part of the ryton holding

988
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: it above one's head or roughly you know, above one's head,

989
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: or at least parallel with one's head, by either twin

990
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: handles on the side, or from some other kind of

991
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,439
Speaker 1: handle that's a fixed to the object, or even from

992
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: sort of the horn itself. In other forms, one drinks

993
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: from the wide portion of the ryton, So the whole

994
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: thing is more like a traditional goblet, except many of

995
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: these designs would require you know, gripping by the horns

996
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: or by the or the antlers that are on it.

997
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: If there are antlers on it, and you might not

998
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: be able to set it down, it may not might

999
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: not have a bottom to it.

1000
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 3: Wow, well, that almost suggests a certain way to drink.

1001
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again this would be highly ritual, So it's

1002
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: not about setting your drink aside and then doing other things.

1003
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: You're not gonna do any paperwork. This is probably part

1004
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: of some ritual I don't know. You can easily imagine

1005
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: some sort of warrior's feast, etc.

1006
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 3: Right, you can't drink it while you're podcasting. It's maybe

1007
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 3: to drink from while people stand around you chanting drink.

1008
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: Right. So there are various beautiful examples of the ryton,

1009
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: but The one that really brought to my mind the

1010
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: Wally World mug is the Stag's head Ryton, dating to

1011
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: four hundred BCE. This is a silver artifact that actually

1012
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: made headlines just last year due to its three point

1013
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: five million dollar appraisal value and its presence among stolen

1014
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 1: antiquities that were found in the possession of billionaire Michael Steinhardt.

1015
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: You can look up articles on that again from just

1016
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: last year. The item was apparently looted from a museum

1017
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: in Turkey originally, but I'm unsure exactly when the looting occurred,

1018
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,919
Speaker 1: other than sometime during the twentieth century during a time

1019
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: of unrest, which that only narrows it down so much

1020
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: concerning the twentieth century, though. It does seem to be

1021
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: of ancient Greek manufacturer somewhere in the region of the

1022
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: Black Sea, probably from the fifth century BCE. And with

1023
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: this one, you'd apparently drink from the stag's lower lip

1024
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: while holding it aloft, though not by the antlers, as

1025
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: is visible in many photos of this particular artifact. There's

1026
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: this curved handle behind the neck.

1027
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 3: Oh, I see it.

1028
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the question remains, is the Wally World mug

1029
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: a ryton. No, it's not. No, it's not. Yes, it's

1030
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: first of all, it's not horn shaped. It also doesn't

1031
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: you don't drink from the moose's lips, though that alone

1032
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't disqualify it from being a ryton, as we previously noted,

1033
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: though I've included a picture for you, Joe, of a

1034
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: ryton that would involve you drinking from the wide portion

1035
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: as opposed to the beast lips. You can sort of see.

1036
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: So this one would be very much a situation where

1037
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: you have this kind of like I don't know, bronze

1038
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: or golden chalice, and you wouldn't be able to set

1039
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: it down because instead of having a flat surface, flat

1040
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: bottom on the bottom of your goblet, there is like

1041
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: the head of a ram down there. Yeah, so you'd

1042
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: have to lay it on its side, I guess, in

1043
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: which case you would either spill what you were drinking

1044
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: or you would have to have consumed it all.

1045
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 3: Once again, the medium is the message here. This is

1046
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 3: technology that shows that by necessity, shows you a way

1047
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 3: to use it.

1048
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. However, I will say the Wally World mug is

1049
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: the likeness of a moosehead. It is the likeness of

1050
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: an animal's head. It also is a ceremonial drinking vessel. Clearly,

1051
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 1: the Grizwolds are not drinking out of these year round,

1052
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: They're busting them out for the holidays. And just as

1053
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: some of these artifacts, such as the stag, were decorated

1054
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: with warrior images and images of battle, and we can

1055
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: imagine the ceremonies they involve, probably a line with some

1056
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 1: sort of warrior ethos. We do see Clark Griswold drinking

1057
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: copious amounts of nog while working cousin Eddie up for violence,

1058
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: though curiously I had to go back. I was imagining this,

1059
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 1: remembering this scene incorrectly, the scene where Clark Griswold is

1060
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 1: throwing back a whole bunch of eggnog and talking about

1061
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: how he wishes somebody would kidnap his boss. He's curiously

1062
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: not drinking from one of the moose goblets in this scene.

1063
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: Oh so, I don't know. I don't know what the

1064
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: reason for that is. You'd think you'd want him drinking

1065
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: out of the moose. Maybe it's just because it's harder

1066
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: to hold. I don't know.

1067
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 3: Maybe it's to show in a subtle way that Clark

1068
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 3: is actually coldly calculating in the scene, and he's not

1069
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 3: as drunk as it would suggest.

1070
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a whole topic for another time, trying to

1071
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: figure out Clark Griswold. How do we feel about Clark Griswold,

1072
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 1: about his his motivations and his desires in Christmas Vacation.

1073
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 3: Clark is neutral, evil cousin cousin Randy Quaid, I'd say chaotic.

1074
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: Neutral, Yeah, I think so. All right, So again, not

1075
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: really a Ryton in Christmas Vacation. But I think we

1076
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 1: might well imagine a scene from an alternate dimension in

1077
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: which there's a scene in Christmas Vacation in which Clark

1078
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: Griswold holds aloft the Mighty Wally the moose Ryton, this

1079
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: big glass moose head or perhaps it's silver in this scenario,

1080
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: a big silver moosehead. Perhaps you grip it by the antlers,

1081
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: and he's allowing cousin Eddie to then drink nourishing nod

1082
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 1: from the lips of the moose before he sends him

1083
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: out into glorious battle against the enemies of Christmas. Bravo.

1084
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: All right, that's all I have.

1085
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 3: God bless us everyone, Yes, I.

1086
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: Will say, also, fortunately finished my eggnog before we got

1087
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: to the draining of abscesses. So hopefully that calibrates the

1088
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: podcast episode for anyone out there who's like, oh, well,

1089
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: Rob's having an eggnog, I should have an eggnog for

1090
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: this listening experience. I hope that you too, were finished

1091
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 1: before the abscesses were drained.

1092
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 3: Why are you saying that, Rob? Are you saying that?

1093
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 3: Otherwise it would suggest the mental image that your glass

1094
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 3: of creamy mixture is what's out coming out of the abscess.

1095
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: Yes, that it is a goblet of holiday puss, which

1096
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: you might be drinking from the glass ahead of a moose,

1097
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:37,479
Speaker 1: which doesn't help, or from the lips of a moose.

1098
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 3: Right on, I guess Merry Christmas everybody.

1099
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, we're going to go and close it

1100
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 1: out here, but we'd love to hear from everyone out

1101
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: there if you have. I mean a lot of people

1102
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: out there are going to have some sort of holiday

1103
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: tradition involving some manner of eggnog. We didn't really have

1104
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 1: time to get into all the variations, but I know

1105
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: there are some. I think I've had like a Puerto

1106
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: Rican variation of eggnog before. It was quite delightful. There's

1107
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: so many different regional variations, family variations. Please write in.

1108
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your take on all of this.

1109
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 1: In the meantime, we'll remind you that Stuff to Blow

1110
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: Your Mind is a science podcast, with our core episodes

1111
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,919
Speaker 1: on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Wednesdays we do a short

1112
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: form artifact or monster fact. On Mondays we do a

1113
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 1: listener mail episode, and on Fridays we set aside most

1114
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: serious concerns and just talk about a weird film on

1115
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 1: Weird House Cinema.

1116
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our audio producer, Max Williams. If you

1117
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 3: would like to get in touch with us with feedback

1118
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 3: on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic

1119
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 3: for the future, or just to say hello, you can

1120
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 3: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

1121
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 3: dot com.

1122
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1123
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,959
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1124
01:05:56,120 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.