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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller.

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Speaker 2: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,

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Speaker 2: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moven news.

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Speaker 1: Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com. Slash

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Speaker 1: podcast looks good to Allison Williams. She's a senior banks

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Speaker 1: analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence. You worked at Morgan Stanley, Allison,

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Speaker 1: you've covered this doc forever. Just put into perspective mister

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Speaker 1: Gorman's reign here, How does the street pursue his his

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Speaker 1: performance at CEO.

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Speaker 3: So obviously the biggest thing that Gorman did when he

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Speaker 3: was at Morgan Stanley is to transform the business to

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Speaker 3: wealth and asset management. So twenty six percent and twenty ten,

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Speaker 3: that went to fifty to two percent in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: That's of pre text income. And I would say that,

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Speaker 3: you know, for me personally, when I was at Morgan Stanley,

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Speaker 3: the first time I met James Gorman was at Merrilynch

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Speaker 3: and he did a tremendous job there, came into Morgan

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Speaker 3: Stanley to run their wealth business, you know, was elevated

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Speaker 3: to CEO. Really has transformed that business. At this that

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Speaker 3: does sort of perhaps give an edge to Andy Sapperstein.

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Speaker 3: He's the one who's running wealth management now he's an

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Speaker 3: heir apparent along with Ted Pick who runs the institutional business.

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Speaker 3: But Ted Pick also has done a tremendous job with

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Speaker 3: their trading business, turning things around first in fixed income

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Speaker 3: and then the broader business and gaining share in both

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Speaker 3: fixed income and equities under over the long term.

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Speaker 1: So he said within twelve months, Allison, and that's a

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Speaker 1: relatively short time frame. Do you have a sense or

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Speaker 1: of when this may occurs or natural time?

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Speaker 4: Do you think so?

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Speaker 3: I think that this is a natural time. If we

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Speaker 3: think back to when Lloyd Blankfein retired, you know, he

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Speaker 3: made the point at the time that he wanted to

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Speaker 3: step away in a commer time for markets and turnover

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Speaker 3: leadership before we had before we had more turmoil, and

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Speaker 3: I think that did successfully put David Solomon in place

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Speaker 3: with time to have looked at the business. If you

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Speaker 3: recall they had their first investor day and within weeks

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Speaker 3: we had the global pandemic take hold, and so I

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Speaker 3: think the reason why this is timely for Morgan Stanley is,

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Speaker 3: you know, we're just past the pandemic. There's still a

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Speaker 3: lot of economic and monetary policy and certainly for sure,

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Speaker 3: but as you know, Paul, there there always is, there's

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Speaker 3: always going to be, but we're past the pandemic where

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Speaker 3: we've digested the company has digested two major acquisitions that

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Speaker 3: they did. He traded eaton Vance, and so it does

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Speaker 3: seem a commer time and perhaps the right time to

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Speaker 3: pass the baton.

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Speaker 1: Any is this gonna be a typical succession where you've

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Speaker 1: got too clear and maybe even a third person in

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Speaker 1: the running for the job that whoever does not get

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Speaker 1: the job then leaves the firm?

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Speaker 4: Is that kind of the expectation here?

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Speaker 3: I mean that that is what does tend to happen.

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Speaker 3: These are Ted and Andy are both very strong leaders

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Speaker 3: and as I said, have have in their own right

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Speaker 3: their own success stories that have contributed to the overall firm. Certainly,

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Speaker 3: I think that each does have bigger aspirations. So you know,

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Speaker 3: that's that's the kind of thing I think we'll have

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Speaker 3: to say.

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Speaker 1: Do we have any idea what James Gorman is thinking

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Speaker 1: to do here? Is this a true retirement or expect

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Speaker 1: him to show up some other place in a meaningful way.

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Speaker 3: I think that I think it is a true retirement.

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Speaker 3: He's sort of going out on top right, and he

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Speaker 3: is going to He has that that he will stay

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Speaker 3: with the firm, as you know, is sort of typical,

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Speaker 3: you know, just just as Kenjacob said the other day

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Speaker 3: with Blizzard. You know he will he will stay on

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Speaker 3: the firm. It will ensure some continuity with the clients

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Speaker 3: and with the management. But again you never say never.

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Speaker 4: Yep, you know what.

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Speaker 1: This kind of my second thought after seeing this news

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Speaker 1: first left being you know, good for mister Gorman because

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Speaker 1: he's had a heck of a run. The second thought

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Speaker 1: was this has to shine the light once again on

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Speaker 1: Jamie Diamond and JP Morgan. No one wants Jamie Diamond

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Speaker 1: to leave. I can't imagine any of the shareholders, any

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Speaker 1: of the board members. But if I were a board member,

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Speaker 1: I'd be just making sure we have our ducks in

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Speaker 1: a row. As it relates to any type of succession,

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Speaker 1: what's the feeling at Morgan Stanley these days? I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: at JP Morgan these days.

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Speaker 3: So I think, as you know, Jamie Diamond is consistently

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Speaker 3: asked the question because that is one of the biggest

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Speaker 3: concerns for investors. You know, we look at James Gorman,

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Speaker 3: who is at the helm for a long period of time,

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Speaker 3: but Jamie Diamond is really the one who led JP

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Speaker 3: Morgan even bef for the global financial crisis and has

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Speaker 3: had continuity even through the most recent crisis, and he

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Speaker 3: has consistently said that you know, there are plans in place.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure it's something that he and the board talk

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Speaker 3: with all the time, and they always have a huge

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Speaker 3: slate of contenders at any point in time at JP

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Speaker 3: Morgan in terms of who could be next to run

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Speaker 3: the bank. To your point earlier, we have seen some

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Speaker 3: of those contenders leave in previous shakeups or potentially just

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Speaker 3: getting a little bit antsy in terms of wanting to

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Speaker 3: go on to do other things, and they sort of

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Speaker 3: prooferate some of the other banks across Wall Street in

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Speaker 3: terms of their leadership. But also extremely timely since we

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Speaker 3: do have the JP Morgan Investor Day on Monday.

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Speaker 4: Oh, what's the number one thing you are going to

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Speaker 4: be looking for? What could make news for us on Monday?

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Speaker 3: The number one thing I'm looking looking for and that

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Speaker 3: could make news is anything that they would say on

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Speaker 3: the expense front. Right, So we have a look into

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Speaker 3: a lot of the macro variables, but expenses are really

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Speaker 3: something that are truly up to management discretion, to the

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Speaker 3: investment opportunities that they see, and so we think that

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Speaker 3: that's where we could potentially get the biggest surprise. We

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Speaker 3: have already already gotten a big lift to the net

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Speaker 3: interest income outlook with their most recent earnings. Could we

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Speaker 3: get further upside there? I would say yes, potentially. We

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Speaker 3: think that they were being conserva still a little bit

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Speaker 3: conservative when we look at sort of the underlying variables,

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Speaker 3: keeping in mind that monetary policy is uncertain, so could

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Speaker 3: get a little bit there. We will get an update

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Speaker 3: on trading and banking fees. Again, we can see in

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Speaker 3: the environment banking fees studying at a lower level. Trading

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Speaker 3: is still good, but probably softer than a year ago.

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Speaker 3: Credit will also be a big focus. Are there any

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Speaker 3: incremental Is there any incremental insight we could get, especially

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Speaker 3: with regard to commercial real estate, office lounge, etca. We

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Speaker 3: expect maybe they'll provide some more granularity, but again looking

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Speaker 3: for these expenses great.

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Speaker 1: Steff I'm sure we'll be chatting with you next week

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Speaker 1: on that. Allison Williams, Senior Global Banks analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 1: is also the co director of Research for the Americas

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Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Contelligency.

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Speaker 5: You're listening to the team.

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Speaker 6: Ken's a live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am

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Speaker 6: Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the

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Speaker 6: Bloomberg Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get

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Speaker 6: your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Big News Adam Morgan Stanley, I think the right move.

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Speaker 1: It just shows what a nice succession plan can look like.

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Speaker 1: You know, we'll see how it plays out. But they've

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Speaker 1: got a bench and they've got some good choices, so

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Speaker 1: hopefully it'll work out.

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Speaker 7: The race is not over.

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Speaker 1: Yep, the race is not over. Let's continue our discussion.

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Speaker 1: The banks will focus on some of the regional banks.

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Speaker 1: We'll focus on some of the credit side of the

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Speaker 1: equation because we can do that here. We have Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Intelligence four hundred analysts covering two thousand companies one hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty industries. B I go on the terminals a

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Speaker 1: function you need to get access to the best research

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Speaker 1: on Wall Street. Check it out Herman Chan and Arnold Kakuda.

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Speaker 1: They are two of the analys we have a Bloomberg intelligence.

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Speaker 1: Arnold focuses on the regional banks and I'm sorry Herman

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Speaker 1: focuses on the regional banks are Arnold Kakuda focuses on

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Speaker 1: the credit side of the equation for all the banks here.

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Speaker 1: So Herman, let's start with you here. Any I haven't

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Speaker 1: sensed any you know, kind of big potholes blowing up

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks. It seems to have

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Speaker 1: been pretty calm. What's your read of what's happening in

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Speaker 1: the regional banks based these days?

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Speaker 8: It definitely has calmed down a lot. I think it's

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Speaker 8: interesting that Western Alliance of all the banks is the

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Speaker 8: bell weather these days, with them announcing two billion dollars

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Speaker 8: of deposits in the second quarter coming back to the bank,

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Speaker 8: and that's really calm the waters for the rest of

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Speaker 8: the industry, which is really interesting to see.

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Speaker 4: And from an industry.

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Speaker 8: Perspective, we've seen deposits really stabilize over the past couple

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Speaker 8: of months after the big spike down in March, and

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Speaker 8: consequently there hasn't been a lot of emergency fed barns

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Speaker 8: from the discount window.

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Speaker 7: Now I'm curious also because what does this mean in

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Speaker 7: terms of changes Herman, there's a sense that it's going

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Speaker 7: to get more expensive for banks, banks of many different sizes,

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Speaker 7: now that we've seen some fail. How soon our investors

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Speaker 7: turning the page to look at the next phase for

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Speaker 7: these banks.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: I think if you look at the valuations where they're trading,

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Speaker 8: the low tangible book value on average, a lot of

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Speaker 8: the negativity is really priced in. So you've got tougher

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Speaker 8: regulatory regime coming with tougher liquidity requirements, higher capital requirements.

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Speaker 8: Arnold can talk about increasing the debt issue once. For

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Speaker 8: the larger regionals, you've got higher expenses from the FDIC assessment,

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Speaker 8: you have weaker margins, you have lower lending, you've got

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Speaker 8: higher costs for deposits. So it's still a tough on

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Speaker 8: the middle of view.

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Speaker 7: I want to bring an Arnold here for a second

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Speaker 7: here because the stock price story of PacWest this week

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Speaker 7: makes it seem like we're all on the clear, But

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Speaker 7: when you look at how their bonds are trading, it's

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Speaker 7: still thirty one cents on the dollar. They've barely moved. Actually,

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Speaker 7: they've kind of gotten worse throughout the month. Western Alliance

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Speaker 7: has done a little better, but it's still at sixty

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Speaker 7: four cents on the dollar. This is well below par.

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Speaker 7: What are the bonds telling you about how investors feel

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Speaker 7: about the stories?

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Speaker 9: Well, I guess you know, we live in this world

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Speaker 9: of you know, it's like a factory eighteen days since

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Speaker 9: the Lens Bank failure, right so, you know recently.

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Speaker 7: They're not even counting.

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Speaker 9: I've been counting, so so yeah, it's you know, these

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Speaker 9: these two banks have suffered multiple rating downgrades and definitely

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Speaker 9: lots of concern. But I think, you know, and as

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Speaker 9: Sermon said, these kind of are.

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Speaker 4: The bell weathers right now.

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Speaker 9: But really, you know, we've had a sea change in

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Speaker 9: regional bank bond space. Where it used to be before

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Speaker 9: twenty twenty three, these were they didn't issue a lot

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Speaker 9: of debt. They traded very tight. You couldn't get enough

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Speaker 9: of it. Right now it's oh my gosh, you know,

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Speaker 9: these things are really dangerous. You might get zero and

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Speaker 9: with upcoming regulation, these guys might need to issue a

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Speaker 9: lot more debt. So so I think the way to

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Speaker 9: play this is, you know, we had charge swap coming

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Speaker 9: to market. I think a day or two ago, you know,

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Speaker 9: and you know, we know there's gonna be more and

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Speaker 9: more bank dead issues from this space, and it's gonna

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Speaker 9: come really wide.

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Speaker 4: So I think that's.

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Speaker 9: An opportunity for you know, portfolio managers to come step

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Speaker 9: in little by little if if they want to get in.

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Speaker 1: All right, So just probably define if I look at

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Speaker 1: the bond market for the banks, the big banks, what's.

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Speaker 4: It telling you here? I mean, is it telling you

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Speaker 4: that they're concerned.

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Speaker 1: About there's any unusual concerns in this system? Or are

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Speaker 1: they kind of trading as they should trade?

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Speaker 9: Yeah? No, absolutely, the regionals have definitely underperformed, you know,

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Speaker 9: definitely the you know, just just as we've seen the

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Speaker 9: deposits kind of gravit towards JP Morgan. That's been kind

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Speaker 9: of the safety in the space and and kind of

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Speaker 9: you know, even within the big six banks, really the

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Speaker 9: banks with more of a kind of regional footprint, like

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Speaker 9: like the Bank of America and Wells Fargo with a

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Speaker 9: lot of kind of long dated mortgages, those have underperformed

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Speaker 9: a bit. But but you know, the preference definitely has

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Speaker 9: been with these the biggest banks.

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Speaker 7: Okay, toss up for the star panel here because you

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Speaker 7: saw a shop come to market issue debt. Does that

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Speaker 7: mean that the capital markets are open for the banking

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Speaker 7: system and does that mean that we're kind of more

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Speaker 7: close or to the all clear? You'd think back to

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Speaker 7: Silicon Valley Bank trying to tap equity markets and that's

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Speaker 7: set off a run on the bank.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I think you know, nobody wants to really issue

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Speaker 9: equity in this market, given how much the valuations have

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Speaker 9: come down, right, And I think you know it was

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Speaker 9: it Western Alliance or a prafic pac Quest. Oh, you know,

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Speaker 9: they looked we're looking for a solution or equity ways

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Speaker 9: and then you know the opportunity wasn't right, right, So

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Speaker 9: I think that that's a that's a you know, no

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Speaker 9: for now. But you know the way these guys, You

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Speaker 9: know that these regional banks have less regulation that they

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Speaker 9: are viewed as under equitized, right, less capital because they've

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Speaker 9: been able to exclude these unreal as losses and they're

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Speaker 9: available for sale securities from their radiatory capital right so

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Speaker 9: on on an adjusted basis compared to what the bigger

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Speaker 9: banks like the JP Morgans have to do, right, they

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Speaker 9: look under capitalized. So you know, we think regulation will

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Speaker 9: increase from that standpoint as well.

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Speaker 4: But right now they look under equitized.

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Speaker 5: Right now.

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Speaker 1: So when the banks report earnings, the big investment banks,

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Speaker 1: oftentimes they come to the market and raised debt.

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Speaker 9: What's that all about, Oh, they need to it's basically,

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Speaker 9: you know, over the past three the actually, so let

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Speaker 9: me step back, the past three years have been extremely

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Speaker 9: active for these big jesips. And that's because global systemically

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Speaker 9: important banks.

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Speaker 4: Say, we have lives. We don't we're not into that stuff. Okay,

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Speaker 4: that's not just an audience too. We have we have

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Speaker 4: social lives. We don't know what jesips are. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: go ahead.

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Speaker 9: I So it's it's these systemically important banks that that

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Speaker 9: if they cannot fail, right, and so part of that process,

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Speaker 9: you know, we saw in two thousand and eight, the

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Speaker 9: you know, when these guys got into trouble, the government

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Speaker 9: had to step been with equity investments. Well, in the

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Speaker 9: US and Europe, we can't have that anymore. So what

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Speaker 9: we have instead is these big banks need to have

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Speaker 9: a big liability stack debt really that that in a

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Speaker 9: case of a crisis, that can be used as the

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Speaker 9: new equity. Right, and so that's what this TI LAK

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Speaker 9: regulation is total less observant capacity, and so that's where

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Speaker 9: we've seen a lot of volatility with these regional banks.

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Speaker 9: So maybe they're not global systemic important, but you know,

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Speaker 9: maybe if these guys had a big debt stack, then

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Speaker 9: they can reequitize in a case of of an issue, right,

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Speaker 9: And so that's where we're headed.

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Speaker 7: You know, I'm interested, Herman, do you think part of

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Speaker 7: the reason shrob was able to raise money in bond

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Speaker 7: markets and from what I understand at slightly more favorable

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Speaker 7: terms than they initially set out for. Is there a

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Speaker 7: huge difference between how investors view like a Schwab versus.

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Speaker 4: A pack list.

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Speaker 7: Is Schwab viewed as much safer?

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Speaker 10: Oh?

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Speaker 8: I think definitely, just given the stable a deposit base

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Speaker 8: and they Schwab hasn't had to restructure there their entire

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Speaker 8: balance sheet, like like a Western Alliance has, where Western

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Speaker 8: Alliance is looking to sell assets and seeing deposits down

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Speaker 8: somewhat like twenty percent enter quarter in the first quarter.

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Speaker 5: So you can just.

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Speaker 8: See from the equity valuations where PacWest is trading well

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Speaker 8: south of Tantoba book value. And what investors are thinking

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Speaker 8: about now is that how much can the bank return

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Speaker 8: back to a normal situation versus the straw is still

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Speaker 8: operating in a normal fashion.

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Speaker 1: So I happen to think, I guess what I learned

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Speaker 1: during this whole crisis from I guess your stuff and

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Speaker 1: others is there's the US has roughly more than four

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Speaker 1: thousand regional banks. I happen to think that's a strength

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Speaker 1: of our banking system visa visa Europe, where they have less.

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Speaker 4: Banks, they have more national banks. A Is that true?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's the strength of our banking system?

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Speaker 1: And B maybe if not, is there gonna be some

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Speaker 1: consolidation going forward?

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Speaker 4: It is?

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Speaker 8: It is a strength because I think of it as

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Speaker 8: shopping for for a suitor or a jacket. If you

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Speaker 8: go to Brooks Brothers, you can buy something off the rack,

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Speaker 8: and that's it's going to be too regular for me

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Speaker 8: what you too are so you know what you're getting.

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Speaker 8: But the region banks offer a bit more of a

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Speaker 8: bespoke typ experience where where they will work with the

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Speaker 8: barrow or you know, it's not going to be a

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Speaker 8: cookie cutter type loan that you would get at a

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Speaker 8: JP Morgan or a b of A. And these these

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Speaker 8: regional banks know their community a bit better, so I

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Speaker 8: can can structure a deal that's more favorable for that

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Speaker 8: potential borrower. So that's that's something that that is helpful

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Speaker 8: for the US economy where where you have credit more

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Speaker 8: credit availability versus other regions and geographies like in Europe.

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Speaker 1: All right, guys, thanks so much for joining us. Really

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Speaker 1: appreciated two experts folks. I can't tell you how fortunate

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Speaker 1: we are to have these folks available to us, Hermit

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Speaker 1: chan and Arnold Kakuda. They cover the bank's equities, fixed income,

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Speaker 1: credit side, the whole thing that got the banks covered,

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Speaker 1: along with Allison Williams on some of the bigger banks.

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Speaker 1: There so great great research coming out of Bloomberg Intelligence.

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Speaker 4: They're both joining us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio.

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Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape. Catch our live program Bloomberg

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Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,640
Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the.

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Speaker 5: Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 6: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 1: You know, we talk a lot, Schanali about inflation, but

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Speaker 1: where one of the areas I see it most is

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Speaker 1: in food prices, whether it's you know, at a restaurant

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Speaker 1: or in the supermarket. And here's an article just from

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Speaker 1: a week or so ago from Bloomberg News. US price

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Speaker 1: is a baby formula and baby food jump by the

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Speaker 1: most on record to an all time high last month,

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Speaker 1: that would be April. Data from the Bureau of Labor

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Speaker 1: Statistics showed Wednesday prices in the category rose by four

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Speaker 1: point three percent in April from the prior month and

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Speaker 1: from a year ago throughout eight point eight percent. So

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Speaker 1: I said, we need to figureut what's going on there,

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Speaker 1: and fortunately we have a great guest who can help

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Speaker 1: us out there.

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Speaker 4: Laura Mody.

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Speaker 1: She's this It's THEEO and co founder of Bobby and

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Speaker 1: Bobby is a baby formula delivery startup that sells direct

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Speaker 1: to consumer and offers a subscription service to parents across

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Speaker 1: the US.

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Speaker 4: So a pretty cool business.

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Speaker 1: We've been talking to Lara a lot over the last

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Speaker 1: several years during a pandemic when there really was a

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Speaker 1: you know, a concern about the availability of baby formula.

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Speaker 1: So Lara give us a sense of where the baby

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Speaker 1: formula is, where, where the market is for baby formula now.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the pricing is just and the price inflation

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Speaker 1: is just really dramatic, isn't it.

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Speaker 8: It is.

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Speaker 11: Good morning, Paul, great to stat with you again. It is,

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Speaker 11: And you know, I think it's also disheartening on the

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Speaker 11: back of what parents have just gone through, which is

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Speaker 11: a very tough year for formula and just not being

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Speaker 11: able to find it. Now we're finally seeing shells get

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Speaker 11: stopped and they are seeing prices go up. I mean,

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Speaker 11: look where this is coming from. Is it really is

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Speaker 11: because of the shortage. A few things happened off the

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Speaker 11: back of last year, and the first is I believe

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Speaker 11: in March, the FDA came out with new regulations they're

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Speaker 11: really supported off leveling safety and that's forced ultimately a

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Speaker 11: change in production and infrastructure with the hopes of improving

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Speaker 11: safety getting more formula to market, and the consequences of

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Speaker 11: that was seeing an increase in price.

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Speaker 7: I'm kind of curious here about how you got the

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Speaker 7: job done, Laura. I think you have such an interesting background.

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Speaker 7: You've been written about as a wartime CEO for your

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Speaker 7: work during this infant formula crisis. You've worked with some

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Speaker 7: really interesting names including Gwyneth Paltrow to raise some of

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Speaker 7: the money to get this done. How do you bring

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Speaker 7: people on board?

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Speaker 11: Great question. Honestly, it's approaching this in the complete opposite

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Speaker 11: way that the industry has for the last few decades.

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Speaker 11: It's representing your customers who they are. I'm the only

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Speaker 11: female CEO of an infant formula company, and it starts there.

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Speaker 11: And we have been able to relate to parents throughout

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Speaker 11: this shortage by making one of the toughest decisions when

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Speaker 11: the shortage hit, which was we became the only formula

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Speaker 11: company to reliably continue to serve our subscribers, and I

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Speaker 11: have to make a really tough call at the time

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Speaker 11: to stop growing the business while we kept product in

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Speaker 11: stock for our current subscribers.

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Speaker 1: So where are you in terms of your company, Bobby?

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Speaker 1: Just give us a sense of how, you know, the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years have been for you during the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you know how are things right now.

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Speaker 11: They've been a long few years and they've definitely been

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Speaker 11: accelerated obviously throughout the pandemic and then the shortage. We're

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Speaker 11: in a position right now where we're serving about three

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Speaker 11: to four percent of baby born in the US continuing

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Speaker 11: to grow, but growth also comes with having to invest

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Speaker 11: in infrastructure and supply. So our sites are an outset

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Speaker 11: on what are we doing to be able to grow

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Speaker 11: our supply and continue to serve more of the population,

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Speaker 11: And that in itself just takes further investment, which I'm

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Speaker 11: setting my eyes.

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Speaker 7: On setting your eyes on. The other thing you've done, too,

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Speaker 7: beyond expanding a business here, is that you've taken to

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Speaker 7: Congress as well to make changes to kind of solve

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Speaker 7: some of the crisis that had been seen in the shortages.

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Speaker 7: Talk to us about that process.

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Speaker 11: Well, look, Bobby's entire existence is to reform the industry.

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Speaker 11: It's not just to get out there and sell infant formula.

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Speaker 11: When you look at the ingredients, the way the product

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Speaker 11: is made of, even how it's sold, and the narrative

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Speaker 11: that surrounds it, it is fundamentally broken. So when the

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Speaker 11: shortage hit, we put out a hotline to allow customers

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Speaker 11: to call in with their fire and fury, basically to

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Speaker 11: tell Congress what needs to change. We created Bobby for

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Speaker 11: Change dot org, which allowed us to go out and

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Speaker 11: really fight for policy changes to support parents, to support

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Speaker 11: mothers where they're at and one of those policy changes

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Speaker 11: that we're looking to change is to put out a

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Speaker 11: bill to be able to support more product and more

441
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 11: manufacturing domestically in the US so that we don't experience

442
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 11: a shortage again. I'm very fortunately happen to be here

443
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 11: in DC beside it all and to see the action

444
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 11: and momentum from this has been wonderful.

445
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 4: So lar why isn't the marketplace taking care of this itself?

446
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 4: Why do we need regulation?

447
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: Aren't the manufacturers themselves saying we need the diversify our manufacturing,

448
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: We need to diversify our suppliers. Isn't this what are

449
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: the big players in this baby food business saying?

450
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 11: I think in a regulated industry there's really three legs

451
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 11: to the stool on this. There is the private sector,

452
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 11: of course, and companies themselves are looking for ways to diversify.

453
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 11: But because it is regulated, it's also having the support

454
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 11: of both government and the FDA as well. And if

455
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 11: those three agencies can come together and figure out how

456
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 11: within the next seven to ten years, we can look

457
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 11: back at a truly reformed industry and I mean reformed

458
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 11: domestically using domestic suppliers, local farmers, and be proud of

459
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 11: our instant formula. Then I think those three bodies will

460
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 11: have done the right job, but it will take the

461
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 11: three of them coming together.

462
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 7: Three of them coming together. I think it's the past

463
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 7: question on as suppliers here are interesting, but equally, you know,

464
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 7: I'd like to double down on this idea here that

465
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 7: you worked at Airbnb, you worked at Google finance. What

466
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 7: role is Internet playing and helping you get the job done?

467
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 11: I think I think it starts with just the mindset

468
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 11: of being able to look at a traditional industry and

469
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 11: say that we can do differently. Airbnb was born on

470
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 11: the back of seeing travel being different and disrupting really

471
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 11: the travel industry. So we come at this with the

472
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 11: mindset which is it can be different and the status

473
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 11: quo isn't good enough. But I also do believe that technology,

474
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 11: whether it's tracking supply and the data surrounding in stock rates,

475
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 11: which frankly, if they were all in place to begin with,

476
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 11: we would be staring at the shortage today. So I

477
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 11: think using data and you know, even dare I say

478
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 11: this's movement towards AI as well, I do believe can

479
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 11: get us into a position where we're not going to

480
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 11: be dealing with another crisis in the future, and we've

481
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 11: just gotten ahead of this.

482
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 1: Lauria, we just got about thirty seconds left over the

483
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: next year or two. What's the biggest challenge opportunity for

484
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: your company?

485
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 12: Bobby and I think.

486
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 11: It really is production. We need to be in a

487
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 11: position where we are not waiting on the edge of

488
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 11: our seats and questioning if another shortage happens, we'll be

489
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 11: able to serve the market. We need to break up

490
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 11: concentration and competition and introduce more players to the market.

491
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 1: Laura Modi, thank you so much for joining us. Lara Moti,

492
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: she's a CEO and co founder of Bobby and Bobby

493
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: is a baby formula delivery startup that sells direct to

494
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: consumer and offers a subscription service to parents across the US.

495
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: When we first got introduced to Laura, you know, a

496
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: few years ago during the pandemic, when we really had

497
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: that shortage in that if you think back in how

498
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 1: serious that was at the time, and we needed a

499
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: smart voice to kind of explain it all to us,

500
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: explain the challenges, and Laura was that person. So like

501
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: checking in with larav every once in a while to

502
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: see how that business and the you know, the greater

503
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: food business and distribution business, how that's playing out.

504
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 6: You're listening to the team Ken's our line program, Bloomberg

505
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,

506
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 6: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listening

507
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 6: on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

508
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 4: Right now, we're bringing Ira Jersey.

509
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: He's the chief US interest rate strategist for Bloomberg Intelligence. So, Ira,

510
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: we've got current FED Chairman Jpal, former FED chair Ben

511
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: Bernanke making some comments today.

512
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 4: What are you taking away here?

513
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 13: Well, first, I'm taking away that there's multiple headlines going

514
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 13: on at the same time and it's hard to pay attention.

515
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 13: That's number one. Number two, you know, I think Chair

516
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 13: Powell's comments about forward guidance and about the market not

517
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 13: pricing what the dot plot says, and that it seems

518
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 13: like the market has a different forecast than the FED,

519
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 13: and you know, hinting that we think that we'll be

520
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 13: right based on the incoming data that we've seen recently.

521
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 13: I think it is interesting it's not going to be

522
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 13: enough to job own the market as significantly, maybe as

523
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 13: the hopes it would. You know, I think the fact

524
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 13: that we're pricing in significant chance of rake cuts later

525
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 13: this year is easing financial conditions and actually might be

526
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 13: making their job a little bit harder than it would

527
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 13: be if we were pricing for the FED to be

528
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 13: on hold a bit longer than we currently are.

529
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 7: To the point on competing headlines, you had this idea

530
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 7: here that the banking stress is taking hold from Powell,

531
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 7: but then you have the debt ceiling talks. At the

532
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 7: same time, you had a big drop off and yields

533
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 7: from the Powell comments or not big, but you know,

534
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 7: meaningful time to day, and then you know you're seeing

535
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 7: a slight rise once again, if you think about it,

536
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 7: we're just getting all these headlines. We're still getting Powell headlines,

537
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 7: the most recent being that FED was expecting further tightening

538
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 7: until recently, which is significant, which force wins out the

539
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 7: fiscal strains or the or the monetary ones.

540
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 13: Well, I think near term, the market's going to probably

541
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 13: react to the debt ceialing angst quite significantly. So our

542
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 13: model still shows that the government runs out of money

543
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 13: on June fifth, if someone doesn't get paid on that day,

544
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 13: and then the June sixth tea bills are significantly at

545
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 13: risk of maybe missing a payment. And so I think

546
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 13: that the markets and and risk assets and in particular

547
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 13: are going to wind up moving, you know, quite dramatically,

548
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 13: probably on some of these debt ceiling headlines. You know,

549
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 13: it's not obvious what the Republicans are trying to get

550
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 13: out of these negotiations. You know, it's like, you know,

551
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 13: obviously the Democrats want something clean, that the Republicans want

552
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 13: to use this as a bargaining chip to try to

553
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 13: reduce government spending uh and and reduce deficits. But at

554
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 13: the same time, you know that there's there's a time

555
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 13: to do that, and there's a time not to. And

556
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 13: you know, I'm sympathetic to the idea that deficits are

557
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 13: too high, that the stock of that outstanding right now

558
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 13: is making liquidity in some markets, and even in the

559
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,479
Speaker 13: treasury market itself a challenge just because of the of

560
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 13: the quantum of of treasury securities available. So but at

561
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 13: the same time, you know, you play this game when

562
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 13: when the right you're working on a budget, not when

563
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 13: you're working on whether or not you're going to pay

564
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 13: your bill.

565
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 5: Right.

566
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 7: But here we are again, And the thing is that

567
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 7: to most of the country and to most of the world,

568
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 7: what they see as a bunch of sparring in Washington

569
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 7: for something that usually works itself out at the very end,

570
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 7: but for more hom sitting covering markets, banks, market makers,

571
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 7: investment firms that are levered towards treasury and repo markets.

572
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 7: There are more worries and this gentle sense of panic

573
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 7: under the market right that things will be very volatile

574
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 7: and potentially throw things off course. You know, how drastic

575
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 7: are we going to have to see? I mean, do

576
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 7: you think we'll have to get to the point that

577
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 7: the Fed would have to step in? I mean, at

578
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 7: what point are some of these sharp moves is going

579
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 7: to be troubling for the market.

580
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 13: Well, I don't think that the Fed will step in,

581
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 13: because you know, their their job is financial stability, and

582
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 13: if Congress doesn't want financial stability, then you know that

583
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 13: the Fed Reserve is going to be the uh a

584
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 13: financial stabilizer of less resort.

585
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 6: But but that.

586
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 13: Probably doesn't come unless the unless the government actually defaults

587
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 13: on the debt.

588
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 11: I would suspect we're downgraded.

589
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 13: Right, Well, yeah, down but downgraded doesn't necessarily mean a

590
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 13: whole heck of a lot. Mandates don't change. So most

591
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 13: mandates for fixed income investors globally is that you can buy,

592
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 13: you know, a sovereign government debt of OECD countries, you

593
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 13: know agency debt. So in the United States, most most

594
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 13: mandates say treasuries agencies, and then you know investment grade

595
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 13: or or triple A corporates, right so so so so

596
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 13: treasuries are still a completely separate asset class from that

597
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 13: that are that are devoid of ratings, at least for now.

598
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 13: You know that might that could change in the future potentially,

599
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 13: But you look at somewhere like Japan. Japan hasn't had

600
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 13: a triple A credit rating in ages and ages, and

601
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 13: yet their interest rates don't have a particular problem. So,

602
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,719
Speaker 13: you know, sovereign ratings for investment grade, for for very

603
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 13: high rated company countries that issue debt primarily in their

604
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 13: own currency, really don't mean a whole act of a lot,

605
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 13: because it really has more to do with investor sentiment

606
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 13: and with not with the ability to pay, but the

607
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 13: willingness to pay, which is exactly what we're dealing with

608
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 13: right now with the dead limit IRA.

609
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: What do you think are the the upcoming key data

610
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: points that we need to we need to be focusing on.

611
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: Maybe the FED is focusing on what should we be

612
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: looking for.

613
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, so we have the PC data coming up next week.

614
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 13: You know, that's probably the biggest one that that we have.

615
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 13: You know, we get a revision and GDP that's you know,

616
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 13: not probably not going to be significantly market moving, but

617
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 13: the PC data that we get because that's for April,

618
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 13: so that's going to be important for uh, you know,

619
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 13: where GDP and where consumer spending and what the inflationary

620
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 13: impulse is. Remember that the PC deflator uses similar data

621
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 13: to the CPI, but but the weightings are different. So

622
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 13: the weightings are weighted more toward what actually was purchased

623
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 13: in the month of April. So that's one reason why

624
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 13: the Fed Reserve concentrates on that particular measure, and so

625
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 13: there will be some modest differences between that data and

626
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 13: what we got in CPI. But but regardless, you're still

627
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 13: likely to see the inflation continuing to move lower, but

628
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 13: just at a you know, but still wind up you know,

629
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 13: well above four percent for example, on a year on

630
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 13: year basis for the headline PC.

631
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: And in that scenario, IRA does a FED just kind

632
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: of sit on the sidelines and wait, and that it really.

633
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 4: Is a pause.

634
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 13: Yeah, that's what I think the Fed's most likely to do.

635
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 13: And Powell did hint at that during his remarks today,

636
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 13: And and I think that the FED would it would

637
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 13: behove the Fed at this point just to take a

638
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 13: weight and see action. They can talk about, you know,

639
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 13: the long and variable legs of how monetary policy works.

640
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 13: They can still say, like the banking sector is, you know,

641
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 13: still tightening financial conditions. You look at the senior loan,

642
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 13: the survey and some other measures of credit conditions, and

643
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 13: they can say that, you know, credit conditions are modestly tightening,

644
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 13: and we're just going to take away and see approach.

645
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 13: And of course so they'll say that symmetric you know

646
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 13: that in the future, if inflation does in fact, you know, rebound,

647
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 13: we can hike more. I think if he couches it

648
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 13: in those kind of language, then maybe the market will

649
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 13: wake up and we'll start to price out some of

650
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 13: the cuts that are currently in the market, kind of

651
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 13: as a risk management measure.

652
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: All right, Ira, thanks so much for joining us. I

653
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: really appreciate getting your insights.

654
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape Cat's our live program Bloomberg

655
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 6: markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

656
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

657
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 5: The Bloomberg Business App.

658
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,600
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659
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 6: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

660
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: We need the roundtable list in a big way. We've

661
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 1: got some smart people that are joining us. So we've

662
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: got Abigail Doolittle, she covers all the markets for Bloomberg Television.

663
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: She joins us here in our studio, Billy House. He's

664
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: down in Washington, DC Congress for Bloomberg News. He's going

665
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: to join us, give us the latest on what's happening

666
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: with these debt talks, and then we have a real

667
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: treat here. Monica Defend, chief strategist at Amundi. A Mundi

668
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: is an extraordinarily large global investor. Will get a great

669
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: global view of kind of how the markets are viewing

670
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: what's happening here in the States and abroad.

671
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 4: Abigail, let's start with you. What have we seen in

672
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: these markets?

673
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 14: A little bit of inter day volatility, if not a lot,

674
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 14: and it's cross asset and of course has to do

675
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 14: with all these different headlines that we've seen. Now, I'll

676
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 14: start off with feed shair J.

677
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 4: Powell.

678
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 14: Every now and then he drops, I don't want to

679
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 14: say a bomb, but a surprise, and I would I

680
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 14: would characterize his thought that rates may not need to

681
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 14: rise as high given credit stress as a possible, not pivot,

682
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 14: but a nuance worth watching going forward, because he's been

683
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 14: pretty consistent in his message to my memory over basically

684
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 14: the last year, saying that the Fed is hike rates

685
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 14: are going higher. The hikes may get smaller, but they're

686
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 14: going to go higher higher. And now all of a

687
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 14: sudden he's saying, whoa credit stress, bank turmoil, bank crisis.

688
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 14: So maybe not as high now on that we saw

689
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 14: stocks take a little bit of a dip, But I'll

690
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 14: stress the word little because right now we have that

691
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 14: S and P five hundred down two tens of one percent,

692
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 14: although on on interday basis it has been a turnaround

693
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 14: of almost less than a percent, but close to Chanale

694
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 14: not so long ago, was talking about the huge move

695
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 14: we've seen in yields. Yields had been hired than they

696
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 14: were lower by a considerable amount. They gave up fourteen

697
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 14: basis points on that headline now about flat on the day,

698
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 14: the dollar down a little bit, and then following Powell

699
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 14: having this, I'm going to call it the Powell nuance.

700
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 14: I know it doesn't sound as good as a Powell pivot,

701
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 14: but just to be accurate, the debt limit talks hit

702
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 14: a roadblock, and on that we saw stocks drop a

703
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 14: little bit too.

704
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,959
Speaker 1: Right, all right, let's just bring up Billy House because

705
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: I need to figure out what's going on down in Washington, DC.

706
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 12: Job, this is in the driver's seat. I think we

707
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 12: could safely.

708
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 4: Say yeah, yeah, I don't know.

709
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: All right, Bill, You're done in DC here. Now, when

710
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: the GOOP negotiators walked out, did they angrily walk out?

711
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: Did they did they hop skin walk out? Like what's

712
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: going on down there?

713
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 10: Well? I wouldn't say they stormed out, but they certainly

714
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 10: walked out abruptly after the meeting. Shortly after them again

715
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 10: and the lead negotiator for Kevin McCarthy, the speaker, Garrett

716
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 10: Grays of Louisiana, said that they were being unreasonable, meaning

717
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 10: the White House team, and that things were being put

718
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 10: on pause. He didn't know if they were going to

719
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 10: meet again today or even this weekend. He didn't get

720
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 10: provided any specifics, but we believe it has something to

721
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 10: do with the discussions over work requirements and the hesitance

722
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 10: of the White House to embrace anything that the House

723
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 10: Republicans want in that regard.

724
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 12: Where's the speaker?

725
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 10: The speaker and I'm standing right here in front of

726
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 10: a door in which he's supposed to arrive at the

727
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 10: Capitol and walk through at any second. He touched down

728
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 10: apparently at the airport around eleven thirty and makes his

729
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 10: way over here. We hope to get details from him,

730
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 10: and details that are a lot broader. He's been giving

731
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 10: us last two days of over pessimism, I mean over

732
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 10: optimism apparently, but who knows these things? People play roles,

733
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 10: and again we're on pause. We don't know if it's

734
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 10: a breakdown really, but they're calling it a pause.

735
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: Monica, I want to bring you in here, Monica defend

736
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: chief strategist at a Mundi Monica, How do how do

737
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: investors view what's happening in Washington, this this long, tortuous

738
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: path of just trying to get to a point where

739
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: the United States government can at least pay its bills.

740
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 4: How do you think the markets are viewing it? All

741
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 4: over the world?

742
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 15: Yeah, thank you. Well, you know, I'm so lucky because

743
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 15: I am based in Europe, and I have to say,

744
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 15: guys that how we see things in Europe it might

745
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 15: be a little bit different from how are you ask, colleague,

746
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 15: So where it seems to us that there is and

747
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 15: they will be definitely a lot of noise may be

748
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 15: entering in June on the market. So still we are

749
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 15: not that concerning that a technical the force the war

750
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 15: happens in our opinion, but we might be more worried

751
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 15: on the people. So these things might play out with

752
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 15: people not getting there the salaries or spending cuts to

753
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 15: kick in, and this might be painful for the US economy.

754
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 12: Well, it's to date we've been climbing a wall of worry.

755
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 12: Can we climb more with this added worry?

756
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 15: Well, I think that this might be, but it really

757
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 15: depends what kind of worries you are looking for, whether

758
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 15: it is or not market and monectivity. Yes, this will materialize,

759
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 15: it is it is likely so as we've seen so far.

760
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 15: But then when it goes down to more entrenched consequences

761
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 15: on the economic cycle, while we expect this to be

762
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 15: less likely.

763
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 4: So the market, sorry.

764
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: That blue button thing, so abigail these markets here, What

765
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: do you think the market is kind of factoring in here?

766
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: It relates to this debt, silly negotiations. The things have

767
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: been kind of the optics has been kind of building

768
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: for the last twenty four to thirty six hours.

769
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 4: And this was a little bit of surprise here.

770
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 14: Yes, maybe a little bit of a surprise for sure.

771
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 14: On the other hand, if you go back to twenty eleven,

772
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 14: it really went down right to the wire. So I

773
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 14: think that if investors traders thought that this was this

774
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 14: pause is a breakdown, you would see a massive move

775
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 14: flight to safety and out of risk assets. And I'm

776
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 14: also about to pull up a term chart here because

777
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 14: there's a very interesting divergence. It's a slight divergence. It

778
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 14: suggests that investors don't think that there's going to.

779
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 4: Be a default.

780
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 14: And I'm just trying to find this here. Ooh boy boy. Here,

781
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 14: let's see. I'm just looking for the Yeah, I'm we're

782
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 14: the charters. This is less of a churches chart and

783
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 14: more of a rates chart. Talking about I'll describe it,

784
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 14: which is I just I'm curious to see where the

785
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 14: current levels are. I think this is going to be

786
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 14: this chart which basically those tea bills that are maturing

787
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 14: in May. Okay, So this is interesting. It's moving a

788
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 14: little bit. So the tea bills maturing in May. On

789
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 14: this announcement, they went from being around three point fifty

790
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 14: to now above four percent. So we're seeing a little

791
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 14: bit of a premium place there. Investors demanding a little

792
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 14: bit more of a premium for bills that are maturing

793
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 14: next week May twenty fifth, and then the following Tuesday,

794
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 14: May thirtieth, and then those bills d in June. They're

795
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 14: all above five percent, so that divergence is still there.

796
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 14: It had been wider. Prior to today. It had been a

797
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 14: two percent divergence. So for those bills maturing this month

798
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 14: with no debt sealing drama or imminency of not being

799
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 14: able to pay immediately on these bills, it was demanding

800
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 14: three fifty relative to five point fifty for the other ones.

801
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 14: The thing I would point out, though it's an interesting divergence,

802
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 14: it tells you, yes, the markets are not totally asleep.

803
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 14: They're aware that there is this stress down in Washington.

804
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 14: But if anybody thought that the government we're truly going

805
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 14: to go into default, I would make the case that

806
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 14: those June bills they would be at I don't know

807
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 14: how you would price this out. It would be bond math,

808
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 14: but it would be ten percent because you'd be looking

809
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 14: at the possibility of not getting your your premium back

810
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 14: or your principle back. Although I don't know for how

811
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 14: long I was having a complicated discussion with Doug Prisner

812
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 14: and neither of us knew the answer on this, but

813
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 14: that you would get your principle back at some point

814
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 14: in the future. But then you're talking about opportunity cost.

815
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 12: Hey, Billy House on Capitol Hill waiting for the speaker,

816
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 12: how much money do we have left?

817
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 8: Uh?

818
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 10: You know, I don't know as of today. I do

819
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 10: know that there's differences of opinion. The Speaker, trying to

820
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 10: push a deal swiftly, is saying that just the process

821
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 10: here getting a bill written and then of course approved

822
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 10: and dealing with the you know, the flanks of both

823
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 10: parties who will pose anything, just makes makes the deadline

824
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 10: that June one tended to deadline almost we've almost we're

825
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 10: pushing right up against it already.

826
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 5: Yep.

827
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: Hey, Monica, I want to get your perspective from Europe here.

828
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: I mean, we see the central banks around the world,

829
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: the ECB, the the Bank of England, even the Bank

830
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: of Japan. How how well do you think this policy

831
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 1: seems fairly coordinated? But I mean, what's the what are

832
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: you expecting next from some of these central banks?

833
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 15: Well when it goes to the ECB, but also the

834
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 15: Bank of England, and we think they're going to continue

835
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 15: to bike.

836
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 10: Okay, thank you guys.

837
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 4: The reason sorry, go ahead, man, the.

838
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 15: Reason and the reason being that the inflation is proving

839
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 15: speaker and then then expected while when it turns to

840
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 15: the said, we think they're going to pause with all

841
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 15: the consequences of this myself for example on the on

842
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 15: the US dollar. But we had the Juster Shnabel making

843
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 15: her statements in a speech that been just released one

844
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 15: hour ago, saying that we need to disentangle financial stability

845
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 15: from from inflation, and inflation will be the main target

846
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 15: for the for the central bank. Actually, how we see

847
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 15: three fifty as a terminal rate because we don't think

848
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 15: that eventually economists might afford the hot terminal rate at

849
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 15: four or above.

850
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 12: Monarcha. As you're speaking and looking at the tacks, you know,

851
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 12: we almost closed our record high for the German dacks.

852
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 12: Uh is you're continuing the out form the US and

853
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 12: will that continue.

854
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 15: To be To be honest with you, we've been slashing

855
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 15: down our exposure overall on UH ON equities with the

856
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 15: with the concern related to to GDP numbers and economic cycle,

857
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 15: and we said that why we expect the US enter

858
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 15: sessions UH cou four UH you area. We are still flattish.

859
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 15: So probably let's see how the clouds will get clear

860
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 15: out on the ECB and then we will might reconsider

861
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 15: any opposition. But honestly, we doubt that we will have

862
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 15: US striking our performance of Europe versus the US, and

863
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 15: we prefer to see it on the corcual site.

864
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: All right, Monica, thank you very much for joining us.

865
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you coming out and spending a couple

866
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: of minutes with us. Monica defend head and chief strategist

867
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: at Mundi Institute, Abigail Dolittle covers all.

868
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 4: The markets for US for Bloomberg News.

869
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: We appreciate getting her time and Billy House down and Washington, DC,

870
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: literally on the steps of Congress waiting to see how

871
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: that news breaks down there with the talks. Want to

872
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 1: bring you John Authors here Bloomberg Opinion A columnists, Uh, John,

873
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: A lot going on, a lot of big picture stuff

874
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: here with it that ceiling, we've got the Federal reserve.

875
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 4: Kind of how do you put it all together?

876
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: Because I can tell you just looking at the screen

877
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,479
Speaker 1: right here, the market minute by minutes, trying to figure

878
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: out what's going on.

879
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 16: I think with the debt ceiling, this isn't going to

880
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 16: be terribly helpful. People might ask why I'm being paid

881
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 16: by salary. You can't really make much of it. It

882
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 16: is the classic example of something that markets cannot deal

883
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 16: with well, which is very low probability extreme events. Not

884
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 16: only that it's a political event rather than a financial

885
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 16: one that would then have financial consequences. So you know,

886
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 16: it's completely reasonable that it would be having the kind

887
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 16: of effect it will. That the odds are very strong

888
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 16: that we're not going to have a default. I suppose

889
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 16: I would try to perhaps if there's one key issue

890
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 16: that is hadn't looked at too much because people think

891
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 16: of it as being so binary. Back in twenty eleven,

892
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 16: the really big depth ceiling set to the market tanked

893
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 16: much further after the deal had been done successfully other

894
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 16: than it had done when the brinkmanship was still going on,

895
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 16: basically because the Obama administration agreed to cuts that seemed

896
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 16: implausibly difficult to implement to many in the market. I

897
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 16: think perhaps the actual detail of whats concessions might be

898
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 16: made isn't so binary, and perhaps we should be focusing

899
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 16: more on that. You do see some signs that that's

900
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 16: what people are beginning to look.

901
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 12: At, hey John, Since the beginning of the year s

902
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 12: and p. Five hundred up nine percent nasdanca what over

903
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 12: twenty percent?

904
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 16: Twenty two? The last I checked twenty two?

905
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 12: Is this being held together? There would spit and chewing gum.

906
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 16: It's being held together. I wrote this up last night.

907
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 16: It's been woken held together, firstly by an absence of

908
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 16: new bad news. So earnings for the first quarter were

909
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:23,720
Speaker 16: a bit better than pretty bearish expectations. The unemployment still

910
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 16: hasn't absolutely tanked, Inflation isn't coming down as quickly as

911
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 16: many would want, but at least it's not continuing to write,

912
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 16: so that there is an absence of clear bad news,

913
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 16: which is always good, because there was a lot of

914
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 16: bad news in the price and then you've got the

915
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 16: perverse effect of the banking crisis appears to have been

916
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 16: that the amount of liquidity that was available for banks

917
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 16: to borrow against their bonds. Money is fungible, it finds

918
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 16: its way to where it can make a return, so

919
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 16: that money is having an affec even though the said

920
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 16: funds rate stays high. And then finally we have and

921
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 16: this is another classic thing that markets find it very

922
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 16: difficult to deal with. Is a genuine, a genuine boom,

923
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 16: a genuine moment of excitement this time over AI. And

924
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 16: I don't want to seem I don't know enough about

925
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 16: the subject to really declaim as to how it's going

926
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 16: to pan out. But you know, the Internet obviously really

927
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 16: did change our lives in the end, and that didn't

928
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 16: mean that you couldn't lose a heck of a lot

929
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 16: of money along the way trying to figure it out.

930
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 16: I think that's all.

931
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: Right, John, thank you so much for joining us. We

932
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: appreciate you hopping on there. When we want to know

933
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: about AI, We've probably got some. I'm going to somebody,

934
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: you know, Robert.

935
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 12: Telling you pets AI revived.

936
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: It's coming. It's coming, all right, John Tucker, fall sween

937
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: here with you. We're gonna have more coming up this

938
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: is board.

939
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg

940
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

941
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the.

942
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 5: Bloomberg Business App.

943
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

944
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 6: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

945
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 4: All right, Charlie calla. Thank you so much.

946
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: We appreciate that. All Right, we got John Tucker as

947
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: a co host today, so I figure we got to

948
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: talk weed, right John, I mean, let's go.

949
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 12: There, shall I take the perspective of a parent of.

950
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: Yes, I am kids, So yeah, John, john'son not a

951
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: big fan of this whole legalized cannabis thing. But our

952
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: next guest is Andres Fajardo, close enough, CEO of Clever

953
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: Leaves ticker CLVR joints us Here Andres, you're based in Bogota, Columbia.

954
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: You're up here talk to us about your company. How

955
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 1: do you guys operate within the cannabis space?

956
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 17: No, thanks for having me here. And you know, Leaves

957
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 17: a say company that was born with a very simple idea,

958
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 17: which was you have to grow cannabis where you should,

959
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 17: and then you have to sell it where you should

960
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 17: and that sounds a little silly, but regulation, you know,

961
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 17: has made companies to grow cannabis where they are selling it,

962
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 17: and that never makes sense. So we set up a

963
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 17: company with operations in Colombia back in twenty sixteen. H

964
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 17: you know, we're a company that right there is the

965
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 17: first one to get licensed. We're the largest right now

966
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 17: over there with one point eight million square feet of cultivation.

967
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 17: I would say that we're quite unique because we have,

968
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 17: you know, all of the pharmaceutical certifications that you required

969
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 17: to actually ship medical cannabis, you know, across borders. We

970
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 17: have the European certification that allows us to do that,

971
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 17: the Brazilian one, the Colombian one, and we also have

972
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 17: the cost So we are a very unique company with

973
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 17: low cost, high quality, high scale of products that are

974
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 17: shipping currently, you know, from Colombia to Brazil, to Germany

975
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 17: to Australia to the UK. So that's our business model.

976
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 17: We're a little different, and we're basically here to disrupt

977
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 17: the cannabis markets as.

978
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 12: It is patchwork in the United States where states some

979
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 12: states have approved it, but on the federal level, it's

980
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 12: still illegal and you stay away from the United States

981
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 12: because of that. Exactly.

982
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 17: We operate where there are federally legal markets where import

983
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 17: and export is permitted. The US, uh, you know, has

984
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 17: legalized in a state by state basis with differences, which

985
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 17: is within its each state and companies you know are

986
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 17: called them as those because there are basically mini companies

987
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 17: in each of the different states.

988
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 12: So so what you you don't operate in the United States.

989
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 5: We don't know.

990
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 12: You couldn't be because of important we couldn't.

991
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 17: We are and we're a NaSTA listed company too, which

992
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 17: means we're not a plant touching you know, company in

993
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 17: the US at all.

994
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 12: So we have an operation in the US.

995
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 17: It's a nutraceutical business that does nothing related to cannabis

996
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 17: at this point, you know, but it is a potential

997
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 17: pathway to the US when it opens up. But for now,

998
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 17: we're focused on medical cannabis produced in Columbia and sent

999
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 17: all over the world.

1000
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,720
Speaker 1: All right, So what are some of your growth markets?

1001
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: What are some of the markets that you guys are

1002
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: experienced the most success.

1003
00:50:58,960 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 4: It's very interesting, you know.

1004
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 17: First, you know, I sound like a broken record, but

1005
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 17: I think Brazil, Brazil is going to become one of

1006
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 17: the largest medical markets in terms of patient counts. I think,

1007
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 17: you know, as soon at the end of this year.

1008
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 17: And the regulation in Brazil has been shaped in such

1009
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 17: a way that it has allowed for the larger pharmaceutical

1010
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 17: companies in that country to actually participate.

1011
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 12: It's highly regulated.

1012
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 17: You can take two years to register a product. It's

1013
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 17: very pharmaceutical. But once you're in, it's sticky. It has

1014
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 17: high barriers to entry. And with the power of large

1015
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 17: pharmaceutical companies like for example, our case where we have

1016
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 17: a you know, a partnership with High Parapharma or one

1017
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 17: of the largest pharmaceutical companies in Brazil and Green Cerry

1018
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 17: cannabis company over there, you know, it has huge potential.

1019
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 17: People don't look at it because well, first Brazil, South

1020
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 17: America is going to be big. Well Brazil is one

1021
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 17: of the largest economies in the world. So yes, Australia

1022
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 17: is another way is very interesting one. Australia, although it's

1023
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 17: a low population, some market that's been developing, has been

1024
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 17: growing and now it's becoming more demanding in terms of

1025
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 17: the certifications and the requirements of the products. So while

1026
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 17: we were growing, you know, we had a product that

1027
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 17: was probably overspec Now the requirements are increasing, so some

1028
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 17: of our competitors are being left out, which opens up

1029
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 17: a significant opportunity for us in Australia. Yeah, in other markets,

1030
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 17: I would say Germany is an interesting market for sure.

1031
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 17: You know, there is a change in legislation. It's still

1032
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 17: medical that we're going to go adult use. You know,

1033
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 17: people were all bullish on it. It will happen. It

1034
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 17: won't happen soon, as I've always said. Uh, but it

1035
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 17: basically expands medical It gives us, you know, additional time,

1036
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 17: and it broadens the opportunity for us.

1037
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: What's the difference between medical or medicinal cannabis and recreational

1038
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: in terms of is it the same product? That's just

1039
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: a question of how you market it.

1040
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 17: The product is basically the same. I would say the

1041
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 17: greatest you know difference is that the medical requires a

1042
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 17: prescription most while the adult uses use it, you know,

1043
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 17: for for different reasons. It doesn't mean that maybe somebody

1044
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 17: who uses adult use cannabis cannot use it for an

1045
00:52:58,840 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 17: illness they have.

1046
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 4: It's probably or or vice versa.

1047
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 17: But it's basically prescription.

1048
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 12: Uh.

1049
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: You know, would would you consider getting in your market,

1050
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: So you're in getting into adult use.

1051
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 12: We would, we would.

1052
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 17: I think that a very interesting tailwind for us, for example,

1053
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 17: is that in Colombia, you know, the adult use regulation

1054
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 17: has passed six out of the eight debates that must

1055
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 17: happen in Congress before becoming effective.

1056
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 12: We're missing too, you know.

1057
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 17: We hope that they pass in the next month and

1058
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 17: a half and that will be a tremendous market for

1059
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 17: us in terms of the size. You know, in Colombia, Uh,

1060
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 17: you know, we have one of the largest or highest

1061
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 17: GDP sorry no GDP, but a per capita consumption of

1062
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:37,280
Speaker 17: beer and alcohol.

1063
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 12: So it's a.

1064
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 17: Country that you know likes to enjoy life. Uh, you know,

1065
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 17: uh for for the opportunity for cannabis, uh, when it

1066
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 17: legalizes for adult is going to be great. And we

1067
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 17: have a very good position to be in.

1068
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 12: To the legal company, a publicly traded company. Like did

1069
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 12: you run into in Colombia the illegal drug trade a

1070
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 12: conflict there?

1071
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 4: Not at all, not at all.

1072
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 17: It's completely different. The channels are completely different. You know,

1073
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 17: we don't even even you know, you weren't stepping on

1074
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 17: anybody's not really that's the reality.

1075
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 4: Not so Andre if you're here in New York City.

1076
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: Here, I'm sure you've been walking up and down the

1077
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 1: streets of New York and you see every block has

1078
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: gotten multiple.

1079
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 12: Okay, every time I leave this building, I'm not saying

1080
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 12: it's here, but it's just like the smell wafting through

1081
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 12: the air.

1082
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 4: It's the new World order. You gotta get used to it.

1083
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean every block I got three or

1084
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: four of these stores, and by the way, they're not legal.

1085
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 4: What do you make about how we're doing it here

1086
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 4: in the States and maybe even in New York.

1087
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 17: You know, as I said, we don't know operating in

1088
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,879
Speaker 17: the US. But what I do know from from our

1089
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 17: peers who do is, you know, there are states that

1090
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 17: are getting it right, that are doing it, you know,

1091
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 17: in a more organized way.

1092
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 5: You know.

1093
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 17: The only way I think you can really maintain a

1094
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 17: business that's so highly regulated and has you know, makes

1095
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 17: you produce where you need to sell, is such it

1096
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,959
Speaker 17: is one where you control supply a little bit, when

1097
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 17: you know, when you control the whole supply chain. So

1098
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 17: there are some states doing that. You have you know,

1099
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 17: states like California where very few people are making money

1100
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 17: because there's a lot of supply et cetera, et cetera.

1101
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 11: And New York.

1102
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 17: You know, New York is one of these states that

1103
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 17: everybody's paying attention to. And I think, you know, there's

1104
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 17: a problem with the evolution of regulation, but also in

1105
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 17: reality with the you know, making sure that there is enforcement. Right,

1106
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 17: because some of these things continue, it's going to make

1107
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 17: it more difficult for the more legal cannemies operators.

1108
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 12: Twenty seconds, you came to market through the vehicle a SPAC, right,

1109
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 12: Why was that like twenty seconds?

1110
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 5: Now?

1111
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 17: We we were looking to find in the company. Further,

1112
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 17: we wanted to have access to the NASDAK and the markets.

1113
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 17: We had the operations that allowed us to be in

1114
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 17: the in the NASDAK, and it was a good way

1115
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 17: to do it back in twenty twenty.

1116
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, back in the day that was the time of

1117
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 4: the SPACs. Well, so much for that, So much for that. Yeah, exactly,

1118
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 4: all right, Andres, thank you so much for joining us.

1119
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 4: Really appreciate you coming into the studio here.

1120
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 1: Andres Fajardo, CEO of Cleve Releaves that is a Nasdaq

1121
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: traded stock CLVR, talking about the cannabis business, the medical

1122
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: and I didn't.

1123
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 12: Give my anti cannabis rant get you to thank me

1124
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 12: for that.

1125
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: Yep, as a parent, I get where you're coming from.

1126
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 1: But this is the new world order, at least in

1127
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: a lot of states here in the US. All Right,

1128
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: we're gonna have more coming up. We get a little

1129
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: bit of red on the screen. That continues. We'll have

1130
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: some some more coming up.

1131
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg.

1132
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcasts. You can

1133
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,720
Speaker 2: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever

1134
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

1135
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 2: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three.

1136
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 4: And I'm fall Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.

1137
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at

1138
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio com.