1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,160
Speaker 1: Well, come back to the show, everybody, Hi, and another

2
00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:08,000
Speaker 1: episode of Ridiculous Romance. Yeah, very excited to have you,

3
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 1: very excited to be here, I think. I hope you're

4
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,720
Speaker 1: having a lovely, lovely week, absolutely lovely day, lovely life.

5
00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,880
Speaker 1: If you're not having a lovely week, I hope this

6
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,120
Speaker 1: episode birks things up for you. Hope we can beam

7
00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 1: our upbeat energy out into the world some Yeah, uplift

8
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 1: and elevate the moods of others. Yeah, it's basically the

9
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,840
Speaker 1: only power that comedy has. So yeah, and it doesn't

10
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,560
Speaker 1: work on ourselves. Yeah. Sometimes we laugh, but we laugh

11
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,160
Speaker 1: a lot. Oh yeah, we laugh all the time. Yeah, yeah,

12
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 1: at ourselves. But when someone else makes a joke, we're

13
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,839
Speaker 1: just jealous. Amy Pohler said that I was just like,

14
00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,120
Speaker 1: it's the only thing about being in comedy that sucks

15
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,360
Speaker 1: is that someone else makes a joke that's really good.

16
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,760
Speaker 1: You you don't laugh anymore. You just go, damn it,

17
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 1: that's good. Yeah, and you're just jealous. That's like, that's

18
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,680
Speaker 1: such true. You just can't even enjoy, just like, damn god, damnit,

19
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 1: you son of a bitch. I do that to a degree,

20
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,520
Speaker 1: but it's not necessarily at a jealousy, but just like objectivity.

21
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: In fact, I had to kind of train myself to

22
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,040
Speaker 1: laugh more and like for a while I kind of

23
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,319
Speaker 1: forced laughing a little bit. Not because I didn't think

24
00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,640
Speaker 1: it was funny. I did. I just my natural inclination

25
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 1: isn't generally to like, yeah, like I don't have that

26
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 1: sort of like reaction, even though in my mind and

27
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,680
Speaker 1: I would do this vocally, I would just sit there,

28
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,319
Speaker 1: you know, it's something to be hilarious, and I would

29
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 1: just say, that is fucking funny. That is the funniest

30
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard, And that's my reaction, you know,

31
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,399
Speaker 1: Like I don't There was a window there in my

32
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,399
Speaker 1: twenties where it was just like, I don't really have

33
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 1: the the reflex that strong of laughters stuff would get me.

34
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,000
Speaker 1: For sure. I mean there was times I couldn't control

35
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 1: it and I'm laughing so hard, but um, but typically yeah,

36
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: maybe it was from all the like just month after

37
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 1: month sketch comedy as we're barreling through, probably just about

38
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,800
Speaker 1: why it's money and why I mean, yeah, that's what

39
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 1: I think. Probably more accurate to the jealousy is just

40
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,839
Speaker 1: that you're sitting there going I'm dissecting it and going, oh,

41
00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 1: that worked because this, this, this and this, and also

42
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,520
Speaker 1: the way you were standing, and like all the little

43
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,240
Speaker 1: things that you can't duplicate about somebody's team or you

44
00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like you're just noticing it a little.

45
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,360
Speaker 1: You're being a little scientific about it because it's your job,

46
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,880
Speaker 1: and so you're really thinking just more seriously about comedy

47
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 1: with just money. Thing to say, But there's just some

48
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 1: things that, like, like you said that the way you stand,

49
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 1: the way you deliver it, there's some things a person

50
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:47,280
Speaker 1: can't do a joke. I could retell a patent Oswald joke,

51
00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,440
Speaker 1: you know, word for word, try and mimic the expressions

52
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 1: and intonations exactly, and it just won't be the same.

53
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 1: For a quick period of time. When I was in college,

54
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 1: I seriously cannsidered trying to study comedy academically, like I

55
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,920
Speaker 1: wanted to understand what makes us laugh. And I remember

56
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,959
Speaker 1: like reading books about like like the first recorded joke

57
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,680
Speaker 1: in human in human history, um is a fart joke,

58
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 1: which of course makes sense, and it's like on the

59
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,399
Speaker 1: little margins of an illustrated manuscript, like since the monk

60
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,760
Speaker 1: was like bored and dood a little fart joke, which

61
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 1: is so which I love. I think that's what made

62
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,040
Speaker 1: me be like, oh, I should study comedy because it's

63
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 1: such a thread between a caveman and you and me

64
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,440
Speaker 1: sitting here today, is that we all at some point

65
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,000
Speaker 1: laughed at something, you know what I mean, And we

66
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 1: have that and it's probably a fart and we have

67
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 1: that that instinct to to entertain each other and fall

68
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 1: and laugh and you know what I mean. Like I'm

69
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 1: trying to what's the first caveman that was like, oh

70
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,240
Speaker 1: I could, like I'll write I'll paint a funny picture

71
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 1: and you won will laugh like anyway, and learning that

72
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,640
Speaker 1: like C and k K sounds are like the funniest sounds,

73
00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 1: which I don't know how they decided that, but they

74
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 1: were like clown comic comedy, like all the all go

75
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,800
Speaker 1: words yeah that have a case kind of sound in

76
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 1: them are usually comedically bent or something. I don't know.

77
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,440
Speaker 1: It was just weird ship like that cuckoo for Coco

78
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:22,880
Speaker 1: Puffs is the funniest serial slogan. But TBS very funny

79
00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,720
Speaker 1: is not very funny? Not a single case here's the

80
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,479
Speaker 1: case sounds. That's my question. Yeah, like, who was the

81
00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 1: first person to slip on a banana peel? The first

82
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,359
Speaker 1: person who was like, wait, that was hilarious, that was funny.

83
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,880
Speaker 1: What if I did it again? And then they did

84
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,240
Speaker 1: again and people were expecting it, it wasn't as funny,

85
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 1: and they had to go, oh, there's something about you

86
00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 1: not knowing it's coming that that matters to the joke.

87
00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,360
Speaker 1: And so the next time he puts a banana peel

88
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,839
Speaker 1: on the ground, he's walking towards it, and it was like,

89
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 1: here there comes the banana peal gag. And then from

90
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,279
Speaker 1: out of nowhere, somebody runs in with a cream pie

91
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,400
Speaker 1: sa and they're on the floor and they're like, god,

92
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,479
Speaker 1: I did not expect that the misdirect. Yes, that's the

93
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,640
Speaker 1: history of comedy. Thanks for joining us for the history

94
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 1: of it's a it's a it's a subject we like

95
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,320
Speaker 1: to ramble on for sure. Maybe one day we'll do

96
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,280
Speaker 1: that as a podcast. All right. Anyway, Well we've had

97
00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 1: a great little comedy talk this morning, but obviously, of

98
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,480
Speaker 1: course that's not what this podcast is. We got to

99
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,360
Speaker 1: talk about a ridiculous romance and today none other than

100
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,080
Speaker 1: Hadrian and Antonus. This story was suggested by Piranha, So

101
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,719
Speaker 1: thank you so much Piranha for sending this in Thank you,

102
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 1: Parana appreciate this was a very good suggestion. Um. And

103
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,280
Speaker 1: this couple is one of the most famous examples of

104
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:47,160
Speaker 1: homosexual love during the classical age. So very important story

105
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,440
Speaker 1: and lots of twists and turns, obviously because it's ancient realm,

106
00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,440
Speaker 1: so they love their twists and turns, and they also

107
00:05:54,560 --> 00:06:00,040
Speaker 1: love huge casts of characters and vast historical context that

108
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,440
Speaker 1: is necessary to tell these stories. So naturally, this is

109
00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,720
Speaker 1: a very big, very rich, very very Roman story in

110
00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 1: that sense. Uh, and Greek and Greek, true, very Greek,

111
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,440
Speaker 1: because Hadrian loved Greek culture. Obsessed, totally obsessed. UM. So

112
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 1: what that means is that it's a very big story

113
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:20,960
Speaker 1: and we had to break it in half. We do

114
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,040
Speaker 1: try to keep these romances as condensed as possible, but man,

115
00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,600
Speaker 1: we don't want to skimp on the deats. No, we

116
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,839
Speaker 1: get into k holes and stuff, so much stuff. You know,

117
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,400
Speaker 1: there's so many interesting things. The first thing we ever

118
00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 1: said in episode one is you said, Hi, we're married

119
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,400
Speaker 1: and we like to talk. That's so true. I did

120
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 1: say that, So you have been warned. Yes, it's anyway,

121
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 1: two part are coming at you. But it's a good one. Yeah, dense, rich, elvety, delicious.

122
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know. I think we should just

123
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,800
Speaker 1: dive in. What do you think? I'm ready? Let's do it.

124
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,920
Speaker 1: Hey the French, come listen. Elia and Diana got some

125
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 1: stories to tell. There's no matchmaking a romantic tips. It's

126
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,640
Speaker 1: just about ridiculous relationships, a love. It might be any

127
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,560
Speaker 1: type of person at all, and abstract cons A don't

128
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,280
Speaker 1: a concrete wall. But if there's a story where the

129
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 1: second clinch ridiculous roletts A production of I Heart Radio Hadrian,

130
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,760
Speaker 1: that's just constantly going through my head. It's true. So

131
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 1: Hadrian was born around the year seventy six, a d S.

132
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 1: Seven six seventy six. That's just no apostrophe seventy six,

133
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 1: that's it. He was born in Italica, which is in

134
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 1: southern Spain today. Oh Italica. Yeah, that's where everything kind

135
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 1: of slants forward to the side, right, a lot of emphasis. Ye,

136
00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,680
Speaker 1: also innermost thoughts, rum and titles. All the titles come

137
00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 1: from the titles. His father was a praetorian rank, which

138
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,200
Speaker 1: meant he was either a commander of an army or

139
00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,400
Speaker 1: a magistrate. Of some kind. I only included that because

140
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,680
Speaker 1: I thought praetorians were all warriors, but that's not true.

141
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes they were just government people. And his father's first

142
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 1: cousin was Trajan, who was another senatorial ranked gentleman born

143
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,600
Speaker 1: and raised in Italica. So when Hadrian's father and mother

144
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,840
Speaker 1: died when he was ten, Trajan became the guardian for

145
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,640
Speaker 1: Hadrian and his sister, and he moved into Trajan's house

146
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,080
Speaker 1: in the year. So you're going to move in with

147
00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 1: your cousin after your parents died. He's a big important guy. Yeah, okay.

148
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 1: Also in Trajan's house was his wife, Pompeia Platina, as

149
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,360
Speaker 1: well as Trajan's beloved older sister, and a few years

150
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,240
Speaker 1: after Hadrian moves in, her granddaughter, Vibia Sabina would be

151
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,079
Speaker 1: born in this house, so they she would live there

152
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,079
Speaker 1: as well. So it's kind of a big house family

153
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,840
Speaker 1: modern family household. Yeah, okay, family house. This is a

154
00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,440
Speaker 1: super set up for a sitcom, right, the asen who

155
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,920
Speaker 1: has to take in his younger cousins whose parents have died.

156
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,480
Speaker 1: He already lives with his wife and his older sister,

157
00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,839
Speaker 1: and then she has a granddaughter come with who's played

158
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 1: by twins. You know, you got it, dude. Trajan had

159
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 1: no children of his own. Sure, so scholars have suggested

160
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,040
Speaker 1: that he was primarily homosexual, similarly to Hadrian. I guess

161
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 1: I would hope that there's other evidence besides him just

162
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:34,240
Speaker 1: not having kids. There is, okay, because an ancient in

163
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,559
Speaker 1: the ancient Roman Empire, it was very common for older

164
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:43,200
Speaker 1: men to have sexual relationships with young boys. Okay, not

165
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 1: not the boys part, the young part. It's the part

166
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,960
Speaker 1: that's the weird part. Yeah, exactly, it's like the gay part,

167
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:54,200
Speaker 1: no problem, the young part. They kind of got that

168
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,680
Speaker 1: from ancient Greeks. That was a classic thing in ancient

169
00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,840
Speaker 1: Greece as well, and it was considered a great way

170
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,080
Speaker 1: for a young boy to get like a mentor who

171
00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,440
Speaker 1: was interested in their education and career. And writers were

172
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 1: expensive back then, and these relationships were not always sexual,

173
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,280
Speaker 1: it must be said, but they usually did have some

174
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,959
Speaker 1: kind of sexual element to them, right. In fact, so

175
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 1: Hadrian and Trajan had exactly this kind of arrangement going

176
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,160
Speaker 1: on for several years. It was not the only one.

177
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:35,920
Speaker 1: Tang And had several several mentor mentees, many padawan's. Yeah,

178
00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:37,480
Speaker 1: do you think that was going on with the Jedi.

179
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,800
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no, no, they've moved fart. No,

180
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,480
Speaker 1: they weren't allowed to have they weren't allowed to well

181
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,679
Speaker 1: neither priests. Well there you go. You know this is

182
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,559
Speaker 1: the problem with allies. We need to do a bit

183
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,760
Speaker 1: of an investigation into the Jedi council. Look, I'm not

184
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:58,600
Speaker 1: let's not anger that crowd. True, Oh my god, anceled

185
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,760
Speaker 1: by the star Wars band. So Hadrian and Trajan had

186
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,720
Speaker 1: this kind of thing going on in the year Trajan's predecessor,

187
00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 1: the emperor Nerva, died and named Trajan as his heir.

188
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,439
Speaker 1: So this is a really interesting period in the Roman

189
00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 1: Empire because Nerva was the first of what they call

190
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,400
Speaker 1: the Five Good Emperors, who were all adoptive emperors who

191
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 1: reigned over a prosperous and mostly peaceful Roman Empire. And

192
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,160
Speaker 1: they were all popular with their subjects, so there weren't

193
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,480
Speaker 1: any like revolutions or rebellions that needed to be quashed.

194
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,200
Speaker 1: These were just cool dudes doing the right things, and

195
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,200
Speaker 1: they were all adopted. None of them were born into

196
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,200
Speaker 1: their position. Machiavelli wrote about them basically as an argument

197
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:50,079
Speaker 1: against hereditary rule. Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninus and Marcus Aurelius

198
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,439
Speaker 1: had all been selected by their predecessors because there were

199
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 1: no children to inherit, and when Marcus Aurelius chose his

200
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:02,600
Speaker 1: son Commedist to lead, everything started to ship like a commode,

201
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:09,840
Speaker 1: as we've all seen in the historical non fiction documentary Gladiator,

202
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,200
Speaker 1: where an Australian actor played a Spaniard in ancient Rome

203
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 1: with a British accent. Are you not entertained? Thumbs down?

204
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,720
Speaker 1: I will never not point that out about that movie. Well,

205
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,079
Speaker 1: apparently he did want to play it with a Spanish accent,

206
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:34,400
Speaker 1: but thankfully Ridley Scott was like, don't. Because Ridley Scott

207
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,319
Speaker 1: said no, you can't use a Spanish accent, and Russell

208
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,800
Speaker 1: Crowe threw a phone at him. Probably so all right.

209
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, So, whether you were selecting your son or

210
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 1: another politician to inherit the throne um, it was pretty

211
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,840
Speaker 1: common to wait until you're either like real old or

212
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,560
Speaker 1: dying to pick somebody, because if you picked too early

213
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,360
Speaker 1: it was kind of seen as like an abdication of

214
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 1: your power. Sure, yeah, of course, if you picked too late,

215
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,840
Speaker 1: you're dead. You can't pick at all. And suddenly there's

216
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,480
Speaker 1: a lot of turmoil, So either way too early, too late,

217
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,960
Speaker 1: you got to pick your moment. Really, just carefully write

218
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 1: it down and seal it up in an envelope and

219
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,079
Speaker 1: be like if I die, look at But then if

220
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 1: you trust the person you gave the envelope to, I know,

221
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,040
Speaker 1: people are gonna get so curious. I mean, we can't

222
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,680
Speaker 1: even go without the Spider Man trailer leaking, so it's

223
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 1: so true. And then of course people are trying to

224
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,080
Speaker 1: figure out who's next so they can cozy up to

225
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,840
Speaker 1: whoever is next and you know, make their career happen.

226
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know. I think it was just

227
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 1: very specific timing about this. Yeah. And that's not to

228
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 1: say that they don't give hints, because they would often

229
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,559
Speaker 1: make it real kind of obvious in ways. They just

230
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't say it specifically. So they would like officially adopt

231
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,560
Speaker 1: their air presumptive for example, or they give them like

232
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,160
Speaker 1: a high level console ship or something like that, so

233
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,920
Speaker 1: I'd be like, Okay, this guy's being groomed to take over,

234
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 1: or he'd be like, I haven't picked an emperor yet,

235
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 1: but I'll probably go with a redhead with glasses and

236
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:04,280
Speaker 1: a mustache. Guess who you know, does your does does

237
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 1: your successor have a beard? No. One of my favorite

238
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,880
Speaker 1: memes is someone playing guests Who with Samuel L. Jackson,

239
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,920
Speaker 1: and he's saying, does he look like a bit? That's

240
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 1: so good. So in Nerva's case, he selected Trajan because

241
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,960
Speaker 1: the army did not like Nerva. The army was not

242
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 1: into Nerva. He was only in charge for like a

243
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 1: year or so before there was a big revolt from

244
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,160
Speaker 1: the Praetorian Guard. What we've seen in our Roman history

245
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 1: research is that the army really dislikes peaceful emperors, so

246
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,800
Speaker 1: they do yeah, because they're not getting their money. So

247
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 1: Nerva not popular with the army. He had dealt with

248
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,040
Speaker 1: this big revolt um. But Trajan was very popular with

249
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,360
Speaker 1: the army. So Nerva was like, how about I name

250
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 1: Trajan officially is my heir in the year ninety seven,

251
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 1: and maybe that'll chilly all out And it did worked perfectly.

252
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,680
Speaker 1: They were like, oh great, cool, cool, cool, So we

253
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 1: get our guy next. Fine, And when Nerva died in

254
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 1: just year later, Hadrian was the one to inform Trajan

255
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,680
Speaker 1: about it, so he was kind of like had his

256
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,880
Speaker 1: ear to the wall. Oh he's dead, let me go

257
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:13,040
Speaker 1: run over and let Trajan know that. Oh by the way,

258
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 1: literally ear to the wall, like and okay, he's dead,

259
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to Trajan wake up. It happened so kind

260
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,680
Speaker 1: of because he was there. Hadrian was named military tribune,

261
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 1: he was part of the inner circle, so he's got

262
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,880
Speaker 1: some political savvy. Hadrian he knows what to do. And

263
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 1: Trajan became the emperor. Nobody had a problem with it,

264
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,160
Speaker 1: so it was very easy, smooth transition, and Trajan starts

265
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,320
Speaker 1: working on his main goal, which was expansion. He wanted

266
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 1: to expand the Roman Empire to Mesopotamia, Dasia, and Assyria,

267
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,120
Speaker 1: so he started a lot of campaigns to you know,

268
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 1: conquer these lands. But before we get it all that,

269
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. Welcome back everyone. So Trajan

270
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 1: was basically setting Hadrian up to be his heir, but

271
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,960
Speaker 1: he did it supercautiously. He didn't say it outright, didn't

272
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 1: write it down, seal it up in an envelope anywhere.

273
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 1: He didn't even tell Hadrian if that was the plan. So,

274
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,160
Speaker 1: you know, big Disney level secret here. He's given him

275
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 1: some jobs. There's some indications, but he's just like not

276
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 1: committing yeah, which has got to be frustrating for Hadrian.

277
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,200
Speaker 1: Do I know if I have this job next year

278
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,960
Speaker 1: or not? That's my question. I trying to do my

279
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,280
Speaker 1: five year plan. I gotta know if it includes being

280
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,280
Speaker 1: Emperor of Rome. Probably looking around everyone else, like what

281
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:40,040
Speaker 1: are you going to pick? John? He's an idiot? What Guyas?

282
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,600
Speaker 1: He is his thumb up? But guy is always walking

283
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 1: around with his thumb up. But Trajan's wife and the

284
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,960
Speaker 1: Empress Platina, she really liked Hadrian and they both shared

285
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 1: this idea that Rome should be a commonwealth with an

286
00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: underlying Hellenic culture that's a Greek culture. Plus, if Hadria

287
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 1: and were to become emperor after Trajan, Platina's family would

288
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 1: retain all the benefits of being royally connected. Right, So yeah,

289
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,639
Speaker 1: she's like, you know, she knows how to lay the

290
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,360
Speaker 1: groundwork here, Like, I don't know Guyas. If he Guyas,

291
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 1: what then happens to me? Yeah? That ain't that ain't

292
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,480
Speaker 1: my husband's cousin, right, I got no relation to him.

293
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,680
Speaker 1: Guys don't care about me. Also, he's a bit he's

294
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 1: always got a thumbs But poor guys. So she encouraged

295
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,639
Speaker 1: Hadrian to marry Trajan's grand niece, Vida Sabina in the

296
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:41,120
Speaker 1: year one d So just imagining Vibia Sabina being told, Hey,

297
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,159
Speaker 1: you know your great uncle's funk buddy, why don't you

298
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 1: marry him? I don't know, I feel like it would

299
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 1: be odd, but I guess it was totally chill at

300
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 1: the time. I think that said. I think you just

301
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 1: hadd you didn't really look into people's sexual history like that,

302
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 1: and because they were going to get some weird yeah,

303
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: rather not know, you know what the answers to weir Now,

304
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 1: Trajan himself was not enthusiastic about their marriage actually, and

305
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,640
Speaker 1: so he still wouldn't commit to making Hadrian his heir.

306
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 1: We're not really sure if his lack of enthusiasm was

307
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,760
Speaker 1: because Video was only twelve and Hadrian was twenty four.

308
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 1: He's like twice her age, So that might have been

309
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,239
Speaker 1: why he wasn't cool with it. That's why I'm not

310
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 1: cool with it, I know, right, But back then, I mean,

311
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 1: you know, they had different ideas. But it might have

312
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 1: been because Trajan knew that it would be an unhappy

313
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,720
Speaker 1: marriage because Hadrian was a homosexual, right, Like that might

314
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 1: have been his belief, like, you shouldn't marry her because

315
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,120
Speaker 1: you don't want to right, or like you should marry

316
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: him because he's not gonna make you happy. I mean,

317
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 1: and if he was primarily homosexual, I wonder if he was.

318
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,760
Speaker 1: Like I see that Pompeia is lonely and wishes she

319
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,639
Speaker 1: has children, and I can't give them to her. I

320
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,520
Speaker 1: don't want that to happen to my grandniece. You know, No,

321
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,160
Speaker 1: no offense, no nothing against Hadrian. Just I care about

322
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:13,640
Speaker 1: this girl and we're like feelings weird anyway, But regardless

323
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,400
Speaker 1: they did. They did get married in the year one hundred.

324
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,920
Speaker 1: What a great round number. You know, you only get

325
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 1: you only get that chance once to marry in the

326
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 1: year one hundred. Yeah. Also makes anniversaries so easy. Oh

327
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:33,359
Speaker 1: my god, it's what which anniversaries? It's the year one easy, peasy.

328
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: We've been married for their teen years? So simple. Oh man,

329
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 1: we had to be dumb and get married in one

330
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: neat sixteen. Yeah, we could wait until lost a bunch

331
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 1: of deposits. Our sympathies to all those who we're planning

332
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,359
Speaker 1: to get married. I hope you did actually get your

333
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 1: deposits back. Well anyway. Well. During Trajan's rule, Adrian followed

334
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 1: a political and military career. He became an aerial ghostwriter

335
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: and Senate record keeper, which Imperial ghostwriter is freaking me out. Hi,

336
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 1: we're Imperial ghostwriter and we're from Athens. This is our

337
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: first album, Hadrian's Wool. So Hadrian went on to command

338
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: a legion during the Dacian Wars and he acted as

339
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: a magistrate in Athens, Greece, which just cool. He loved

340
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: Greek culture, so he probably loved that part of his gig. Meanwhile,

341
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: Trajan is out here solidifying his legacy as the greatest

342
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 1: emperor in Roman history. Basically, his conquest of dacy A

343
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 1: super enriched the empire because they had a ship ton

344
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 1: of gold mines in that area. I wonder if that

345
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 1: had anything to do with his decision to conquer it

346
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: for some reason. I'm really interested in Yeah, just uh,

347
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 1: we're trying to spread Roman democracy. It's got nothing to do.

348
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: The gold mines are incidental. They just happen to have

349
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 1: gold mines, that's not it's just perk. Yeah, totally selfless.

350
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,919
Speaker 1: But anyway, Trajan was also big into social welfare policies,

351
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: and he was really big into public buildings projects too.

352
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: There's all these enduring landmarks of his still standing. Trajan's

353
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: market is still there, I mean the ruins are still there.

354
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 1: But but it's super cool to go see the Roman

355
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: Forum where Trajan's column is as well. Man, When we

356
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: were in Rome, we had a delicious dinner at this tiny,

357
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: little family Italian restaurant and you walk outside and boom,

358
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 1: like Trajan's column is right in front of you. It's true,

359
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 1: it's super cool and it's very cool, and the food

360
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: was good and it was a classic yeah, like red

361
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 1: and white checkered table cloths, like it was so Italian.

362
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was credit pictures on the wall

363
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 1: of their family members and still like the accordion music.

364
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, iconic. I remember being like our

365
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: table being right in front of like a family eating,

366
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 1: like it was like eight of them with a little baby,

367
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, they were there for the night, you

368
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like you were like trying to

369
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: get done so we could go seem and like check

370
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: out Rome and everything. And of course they live there,

371
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: so they've seen all that ship and they're just like, yeah,

372
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,959
Speaker 1: we're going to spend six hours having dinner. And they

373
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: were so Italian too. I mean, these guys look like

374
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: extras from the Godfather, except they were actually speaking Italian.

375
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: It was amazing. They looked like a lot of fun.

376
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 1: It was amazing. So anyway, Tradan's market changings columns still standing.

377
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: His empress on Latina is apparently well known for providing

378
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 1: Romans with fairer taxation and better education, and fostering more

379
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 1: tolerance in Roman society. Not bad. Trajan was so popular

380
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: that he was officially named optimus princeps, which means best ruler,

381
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: and many later emperors were sworn in with this blessing,

382
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 1: May you rule fortunate like Augustus and better than Trajan,

383
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 1: which is a high bar. So do you hear that,

384
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: Leaders of the world, all I have to do is

385
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: invest in social welfare programs and public buildings projects, and

386
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: tolerance and education and fair taxation, and you'll be the

387
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: best ruler. That's it. That makes you the best. The

388
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 1: expansion part out of it. Yeah, you don't have to

389
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: go steal gold mines. We've got enough money. You too

390
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: could be optimist princeps. Seriously learn a little from history,

391
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: Why don't you? They were optimist princeps and with bus

392
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: is our first album, May you rule fortunately? Augustus and

393
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: better than Trajan. It's just like a noise rock album,

394
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: but in the fullness of time. In one seventeen, Trajan

395
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: had a stroke while sailing back to Rome from Mesopotamia,

396
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: and Pompeia, as well as Trajan's faithful man servant, attended

397
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: him as he lay dying, and so it's time to

398
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: finally name an air so Ralph and they're like, hey,

399
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: you're almost dead, quick right, say a name, you dick,

400
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: give me the envelope. But well, bit a shady ship here.

401
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: When the adoption certificate for Hadrian came out Pompeia, Platina

402
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: was the one who had signed it, not Trajan, and

403
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: she said that he that Trajan had named Hadrian with

404
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: his dying breath. But people were definitely like, this is

405
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: sketchy because first of all, it was her signature and

406
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: agents and that was awkward. Secondly, the faithful man servant,

407
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: who had been present at Trajan's deathbed died mysteriously a

408
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: few days after a Trajan did, possibly to avoid some

409
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: awkward questions, Tina, what are you plot in? Platina right,

410
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: it's right in the name. And finally, Hadrian himself was

411
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: still in Syria when Trajan died, and according to Roman law,

412
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: both parties had to be present for an adoption to

413
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: be official, so p who were like, Hadrian stole the throne,

414
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: and some people were like, no, you know, Trajan has

415
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: been given him these jobs and them it's clear that

416
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: that's that was the plan, even if he didn't make

417
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: it clear. Apparently the two big histories of the day,

418
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: which is Cassius Do's History our Old Friend from the

419
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: Allagabolos episode and the Historia Augusta, another document. Cassius Do

420
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: thought it was a bogus. He thought they stole it,

421
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: but History Augusta thought it was legit. And there were

422
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: rumors at the time that poison was involved in hurrying

423
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: along Trajan's deaths, and that Platina had gotten a man

424
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: to hide behind a screen and pretend to be Trajan

425
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: and name Hadrian in a tired, failing voice, Hadrian, that's amazing,

426
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: I hope, when actually Trajan had already died either, like

427
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: the idea, guess is that she's sitting behind a screen

428
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: like I'm seeing silhouettes, like a shadow puppet thing. She's

429
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: sitting behind the screen with him stretched out dead and

430
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: she's like, come back, here hang out behind the bed,

431
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: and just like, did you hear him? I heard him

432
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: say it? You heard him say Hadrian, I heard it right,

433
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: Say you heard it? Or you're you might get a

434
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 1: visit in a few days. This poison I have could

435
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: be used again. I just think of of trage and dying.

436
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: And she's like, he clearly said to blaze bluff is

437
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: probably chating at poker. And he named Adrian his air.

438
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: So the Roman senate and the army totally accepted Hadrian's claims,

439
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: except for four senators who were a little suspicious about

440
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: the goings on, because the goings on were highly suspicious now.

441
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: Either they themselves wanted the job and they felt like

442
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: they had a claim because they were close to Trajan,

443
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: or they had interests in Trajan's kind of expansionist policies,

444
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: which Hadrian wanted to change. Hadrian wasn't in Rome at

445
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: the time. He was still in the East suppressing a

446
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: Jewish revolt and handling other disturbances. But his praetorian prefect

447
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: a Tiana's claimed to have uncovered a treasonous plot between

448
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: these four senators, and he tried them in absentia and

449
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: found them guilty hunted them down and killed them thereby

450
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: securing Hadrian's claims to the throne. And the Senate did

451
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: not like that for some reason. Now, they did not

452
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: like it because it was usually their job to handle

453
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 1: trial and punishment for other senators. We handled that house

454
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: to say, your job, you let us deal with our guys. Yeah,

455
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: which is you know again, a little not the best

456
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: way to do it. Yeah, so we can be a

457
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: little bit nicer to them than you would. And Hadrian

458
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: assured them that At had acted on his own accord

459
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: and not had anything to do. Hadrian didn't have anything

460
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: to do with that the whole thing. He said, it

461
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: won't happen again. You will have your traditional rights back,

462
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: don't worry. And he I guess to show At not

463
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: to do that, he gave him senatorial rank and then

464
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: pensioned him off in one twenty, so he was like,

465
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: here's a better job, and also you're retired, but don't

466
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: do that again. That'll show you. But from the very beginning,

467
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: Hadrian's relationship with the Senate was a little rough because

468
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: of this incident, and it would stay sour through his

469
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: entire reign. The Roman Senate is a grudgy bunch. Yeah,

470
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: they are a grudgy bunch. But again most of them

471
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: were like, we're fine with Hadrians, So you know, what's

472
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: the big deal? But apparently did. The big deal was

473
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: that it wasn't the only time you would funk with

474
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: the sentence. Uh. He started to codify things that had

475
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: basically already been happening, but they were not formally law like,

476
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: they weren't written down. For example, tell me if you

477
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: heard this one before. If you're wealthy and high class,

478
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: you could basically pay a fine to get out of

479
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: any crime you committed, short of treason, But if you

480
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: were poor, you could be punished the extreme for any crime.

481
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: Doesn't sound familiar to me. I'm not sure you're not

482
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: in our a just society. No, I never heard of it. Um.

483
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: And if you were found guilty of treason, wealthy citizens

484
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: could only be beheaded. That's the worst thing that could

485
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: happen to you, which is pretty bad, to be fair.

486
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: But poor citizens could be burned. What crucified? Excuse me,

487
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: more torn apart by lions? What the hell? Listen, you

488
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: better have money or else you gotter be born into

489
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: a wealthy family or well, we'll teach you something good right,

490
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: which apparently he did believe that thing where it was

491
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: like odd or dames, you know who's wealthy and who's poor,

492
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: and if you're wealthy it means you're a good person,

493
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: and if you're poor, it means you're a bad person,

494
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: or else God would have arranged it differently for you. Essentially, though,

495
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: Hadrian created an open autocracy where there had been before

496
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: something of a sham republic. So they were like, we

497
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: like the lie that we've been telling everyone about how

498
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: they're all the equal or whatever because we're a democratic society,

499
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: when in fact they were not very democratic. But they

500
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: didn't like that he was taking the sheen off of it. Right.

501
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: He was like, let's just say what we're doing, and

502
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: they were like no, no no, no, uh. Saying what we're

503
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: doing is bad. If we say what we're doing, then

504
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: everybody knows what we're doing, and that's what we're exactly

505
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: what we're trying to avoid everybody. It's not great. Now.

506
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: There had always been a legal advisory board that helped

507
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: the emperor with law and order and all that stuff,

508
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: but Hadrian formalized it. He made them permanent salaried positions.

509
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: Mostly they were staffed by men of the equestrian class,

510
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: which is like I believe, right under senatorial but still

511
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: high ranking. And though it didn't technically take any power

512
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: away from senators, the Senate still didn't like it because

513
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: it sort of robbed them of the prestige by creating

514
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: a new aristocratic class. Hadrian, though, was not interested in

515
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: expanding the empire. Instead, he wanted like clear, defensible borders.

516
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: For example, he built the famed Hadrian's Wall and not

517
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: delineated where the Roman Empire ended and where the Empire

518
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: of Britannia began. And that's actually in the northern United Kingdom,

519
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: somewhere up almost to Scotland. But that's where he drew

520
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: the line. He said he wanted to quote separate Rome

521
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: from the barbarians. He also thought it would save the

522
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: empire money, since a wall, it was a lot cheaper

523
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: than having a full time army hanging out waiting for

524
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: someone to try and cross their borders. He basically like

525
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: automated that job. He's like, put some rocks and stones up.

526
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: They can do just as good a job as five

527
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: guys standing around with their thumbs in their butts. A

528
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: lot of thumbs and butts in in Rome, we're finding

529
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: guys is like, hey, that's my job. Who's got one

530
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: thumb up his button is the man for this job?

531
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: This guy Hadrian supported the idea of the municipia, which

532
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: were provincial towns with their own customs and laws, rather

533
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: than forcing them to become Roman colonies with Roman constitutions

534
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: and act like Romans and just like you know, homogenize everything.

535
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: This is like the British protectorates, where they're right, you

536
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: got your king or whatever you got going on, but anyway,

537
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: I'm still in charge over here. But you do what

538
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: you do. You just probably pay taxes to me or something.

539
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's a little tribute, but there's nothing else

540
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: we're going to change. If you want a little extra

541
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: info about British protectorates, you can listen to our episode

542
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: about Ruth Williams and sets A Comma and the founding

543
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: of Botswana. We talk a lot about that there. And

544
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: of course Roman traditionalists didn't like this. The Historia Augusta

545
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: says that Hadrian was a little too much Greek, which

546
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: is to say, a little too cosmopolitan to be a

547
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: Roman emperor. So yeah, overall, the Senate is kind of

548
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: like what is this guy up to. Unlike many of

549
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: the emperors before him, Hadrian spent most of his time

550
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: outside of rome Um. Usually emperors left just to fight wars,

551
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, or like lead a campaign or something, and

552
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: they relied on messengers to kind of tell him what

553
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: what was going on in the far reaches of the empire.

554
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: But Hadrian liked to see things for himself, so he

555
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: traveled basically everywhere. He went on several full tours of

556
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: the entire empire Um. He went from Gaul to Egypt

557
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: to Asia Minor in Greece, and the whole time he's

558
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: restoring temples and buildings, and he's negotiating settlements and treaties

559
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Uh, he fought a boar and

560
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: had a whole city created where he killed it. He

561
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: fought a boar, He fought a boar, And then where

562
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: he fought the boar, he said, well, where he killed

563
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: where I assume he fought and killed it. In running

564
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: they might have run, they might have run far, you

565
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: don't know. Regardless where the board died, he was like

566
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: playing a city right here, a city in my honor

567
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: of killing those board. It's quite a that's quite a

568
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: it's more than a plaque, classic emperor stuff. He's like,

569
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: you know what. At least he didn't add an extra

570
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: two months Boris, the month of Boris. I was born

571
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: on Botember five. Sorry. Hadrian also said a bit of

572
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: a trend. It's kind of a hipster of his time.

573
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: Um ever since Nero, who everyone hated. Of course, all

574
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: emperors had been clean shaven because Nero had a beard,

575
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: So you wanted to be like, I'm nothing like him.

576
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: I guess they're like, you know, beards speak louder than actions.

577
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: But Hadrian wore a full beard, and he made it

578
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: so popular that every emperor after him also a war beard. Wow,

579
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: including Ella Gables. If you remember, even though she was

580
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: very much like I'm a woman, she still had facial hair. Yeah,

581
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: Hadrian brought it back. He brought it back all the

582
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: way back. Now. Adrian's empress, his wife Vibia Sabina. She

583
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: was with him throughout all of his travels, but they

584
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: didn't really get along. Hadrian was super cold to her

585
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: and she had a real sharp temper with him. She

586
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: would throw tantrums in his presence. She wanted people to

587
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: know that he was childless because she refused to have

588
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: sex with him, but it's not really clear he wanted

589
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: to have sex with her. Um So again that's kind

590
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: of called into question. But I guess she was walking

591
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: around like, uh, you know, I don't have any children

592
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: with my husband because he ain't getting none of this. Nope,

593
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: I'm not even letting him. And people are like, wow, damn,

594
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: she's which you know, really she's got you whipped Adrian.

595
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I don't care. Yeah, it's fine. She

596
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: can't whip me with something I don't fucking want. But

597
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: I also would say at the time, if you didn't

598
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 1: have children, it was considered a failing on the woman's part,

599
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: especially if you did not have a boy, as if

600
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: that was something you could control. And um so it

601
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: might be that, you know, she was trying to kind

602
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: of be like, it's not that there's failing in my

603
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: body or that I'm broken or sick or anything like that.

604
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm perfectly healthy, normally functioning woman, and he's the problem.

605
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: I won't have sex with him because it's a big

606
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 1: piece of ship. Maybe she even said because he's he's

607
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: with these boys and I think that's gross or whatever,

608
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 1: you know, like she might really be doing damage control

609
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: about her own reputation makes sense, makes sense because you

610
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: know that's not really a fair positions either. But she

611
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: certainly was apparently yeah, very Uh. She just had a

612
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: good temper on her. She had a good but still uh.

613
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: Hadrian did show her some respect, He had her likeness

614
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: minted on coin. In fact, she was the most visible

615
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: and well traveled with all the empresses, and she accumulated

616
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: more public honors than any empress before her except for

617
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: the first. Any show of at least outwardly of like

618
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: strife within your marriage or your senate or anything, could

619
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: be a something someone could exploit against you. So maybe

620
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: within the palace everybody knew Vibia was like, she ain't

621
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: sucking him, she don't like him, you don't like her.

622
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: But outwardly he's like to the empire, he's like, everything

623
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: is dope over here. We're doing great, everything's working out fine.

624
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: Were tragiate than Augustus doing great. It is possible that

625
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: Vibia had an affair, maybe because Hadrian dismissed his secretary

626
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: Suetonius around the year one two for quote excessive familiarity

627
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: with the empress. Jeez, what's excessive familiar charity? And ancient Rome.

628
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: I mean right, I did see one place that was

629
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: like basically they were just friends, and he was like,

630
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: you can't have friends. Oh no, he was pulling a

631
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: Burt po Yes, maybe so um, but maybe she really

632
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: was just like I'm I'm ready to have sex with somebody.

633
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: He don't want to do it. Suetonius was a biographer

634
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: who was working on twelve biographies of successful Roman emperors,

635
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: including Julius teeser Um. And maybe maybe you liked a

636
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: nerdy boy. I don't know. When I read that, I

637
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: kind of pictured him all like in the library, stacks

638
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: like dusty hair, and she comes in and she's like liking,

639
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: how cany is He's a he's in a tweed toga, right,

640
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: and they're like, He's like, well you might find this interesting,

641
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: and they like bend over a book together a scroll

642
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 1: of you're right, and like like he brushes her hand

643
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: and she looks at him, he looks at her, and

644
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: it's all cute. But she comes in. He's got like

645
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: a huge stack of scrolls in his arms, and he

646
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: kind of stumbles and drops him all she helps him up.

647
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, he's like, what a down to earth empress? There?

648
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 1: She's rolling up a scroll and he's rolling up a scroll,

649
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: and then it meets in the middle because it was

650
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: the same scroll, and they're real clothes face to face, Like, oh, well,

651
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: I should get that kind of I should go. Although

652
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: I did see in one paper that his writing was

653
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: called tabloid style. Maybe he was more of a TMC

654
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: biographer than like an Eric Larson type. He's like a

655
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: real nerdy type. But she reads his writings and it's

656
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: like guyas caught with his thumb up his butt again

657
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: outside the Superman was like, was he Rick Moranis or

658
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: was he Perez Hilton? Like? Which, what kind of guy

659
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: that is? That is a spectrum? Well, at any rate,

660
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: around the year one one three, Hadrian met his true

661
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: love Antonus. I can't wait to hear more about Antona's

662
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: and uh, I bet you can either, But we're just

663
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break and come back with

664
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,919
Speaker 1: their story next. Welcome back to the show. So, yeah,

665
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: Hadrian did meet Antonis around the year one two, but

666
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: his head was not turned by the then thirteen or

667
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: fourteen year old boy that Antonus was, right, I mean,

668
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: apparently he was a very beautiful young boy. But Hadrian's

669
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: like I'm on this trip or whatever anything, I'm busy. Um.

670
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: But Antonus was selected to be educated as a page

671
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 1: in Rome, probably because he was good looking, beauty, pretty

672
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: far sometimes, but he was also very smart and wise,

673
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: and that may have been the real reason that Hadrian

674
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: was attracted to him. Oh I thought maybe that was

675
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: the real reason he was selected to be a page.

676
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: Oh it's possible. But no, I guess it's because he

677
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: was pretty. I'm sure. I think that's that's actually how

678
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: That's actually also how NBC picks their pages. That's what

679
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: made me think of it. Um. But yeah, Hadrian liked

680
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: a nerdy boy too well, he and Ybia had more

681
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: in common than they knew the same taste. Then have

682
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: they just sat down and talked it out. We finally

683
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: got something in common. I guess it's a good thing

684
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: that they didn't actually like the same boy. That would

685
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: be a real source of strife. Yeah, or maybe it

686
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: will work out great. Maybe they before a little triad

687
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: and go on happily. Anyway, that's not what happened. This

688
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 1: is this is the first time that Hadrian and antonuss

689
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 1: paths would cross. But Antonus went on to Rome and

690
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: Hadrian traveled on to Greece. At this point, Hadrian, like

691
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: we said, big nerd for Greece. He loved Greece everything

692
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: about it. He wanted all of Rome to be based

693
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: on Greek culture. He thought that Athens should be cultural

694
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: capital of the world. He rebuilt the Pantheon in Rome

695
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: and dreamed of uniting all of the Roman Empire under

696
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: pan Hellenic culture. He had even been granted citizenship in

697
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: Athens a few years prior. He went to Greece in

698
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: the year one to five, and he helped out with

699
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: political disputes. He set up foundations to pay for public

700
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: games and festivals and competitions in case there was no

701
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: citizen wealthy enough to sponsor them. So he comes rolling

702
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: in with a big fat wallet like, you guys are cool.

703
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay for all this cool ship to be

704
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: going on here. And also that festivals and games are

705
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: like really important to control fabric of the city. And

706
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: he deserve funding just talking to um, maybe the state

707
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: of Georgia by your arts funding, but that's unrelated to this.

708
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: Don't you want to be the best ruler? God? Damn it, Georgia.

709
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: Look if Georgia has made it very clear that they

710
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: do not wish to be the best ruler. That's true,

711
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: very true. So Hadrian gave extra care to a city

712
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: called Mantinia. This had ties to antonuss home, which makes

713
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: scholars think that they were already maybe lovers by this time.

714
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: They definitely were by the year when Hadrian took him

715
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: on a tour of the Roman Empire. And Antonis was

716
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: really really, really ridiculously good looking. Wow. Statues of him

717
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: are all very recognizable because of his swollen chest and

718
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: curly tussled hair and jawline for days. He's like a

719
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 1: buff Timothy shallow May in my head. Maybe very handsome, young,

720
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: younger guy. Yeah, I mean at least he's at least

721
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: at this point in the year, he's going to be,

722
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, nineteen or so. Yeah. He and Hadrian both

723
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: loved hunting, both pretty athletic guy. Hadrian considered Antonists to

724
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: be very intelligent and wise, but there's no evidence that

725
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: Antonist tried to have any political influence over Hadrian at all. Uh.

726
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: Their relationship was fully acceptable to everyone for this reason,

727
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: basically because they were like, I'm not seeing him try

728
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: to meddle in our affairs or anything like that, so fine,

729
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: whatever you want to do, I don't care um. And

730
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: they did not hide their relationship. Everyone even at the time,

731
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: is explicit about about their sexual relationship, that they are

732
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: doing it um, which is unusual because as we know,

733
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: a lot of times in history they tried to be

734
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: like they were really good friends, or they were roommates,

735
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: or they were spiritual companions or whatever. But they at

736
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: least at the time, they were like, no, they are

737
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: definitely doing it um. Maybe because Hadrian wrote erotic poetry

738
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: about Antonis um, although unfortunately none of it survives. We

739
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: will I have a little one that he wrote about

740
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: his but I couldn't find any of his erotic poetry

741
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: about Antonus, which would be better. Unfortunately, yes, no erotic poetry.

742
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: So Hadrian fell ill in the year with this unexplained

743
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: chronic sickness, I hear man, but it didn't stop him

744
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: from traveling again, and he went to Greece, where he

745
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: and Antonist both participated in the Eleusianinian Illucininian lousing Ninian

746
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: Ellucinian Elucinian Elusinian mysteries. Where he and Antonist both participated

747
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: in the Eleusinian mysteries. It wasn't Hadrian's first time he

748
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: had been initiated a few years earlier. He's like, oh man,

749
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: oh you haven't done the Eleusinian mysteries. You gotta do it, man,

750
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: it's so cool. Come on, We're I'm taking you. We're going.

751
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 1: They are very cool. I it sounds like they're super cool.

752
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: I mean, you call anything anything mystery and I'm already

753
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: sucked in. Seriously, I would like to go to Joshua

754
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 1: Tree and participate in the mysteries. And thank you also

755
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,439
Speaker 1: has like a vibe. Don't into it. There's something about

756
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 1: Greek mythology that gives you such a vibe. Oh yeah,

757
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: I know, right, it's just a vibe. It's mood. There's

758
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: a whole mood. Greek mythology is such a mood. What

759
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: about mood? Like it's weird to me. That mood means

760
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: like I agree with this, right? Yeah. I also started

761
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: seeing people being like, it's giving performative, what like it's

762
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 1: giving perform Like they don't even say the vibe anymore.

763
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: They're just like, it's giving, it's giving something. And then

764
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: they don't even say vibes. It's just it's giving things.

765
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: I think that's interesting. Giving that is giving, not me

766
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: just giving. Well, that's very gracious of it to give,

767
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 1: depending on if you like what it's give. Yeah, that's true.

768
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: It's giving me her pies. This is giving really performative.

769
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: That's it exploitative energy. I don't know. They didn't even

770
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: see energy. This is one Internet talk is so funny.

771
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: They just drop just like you get it. I don't

772
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: need to finish this sentence. You know what I'm saying. Yeah,

773
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,879
Speaker 1: which is true. I mean linguistically, it did the job.

774
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: I hate linguistics. Grammatically it did not, but linguistically it did.

775
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: I didn't hate linguistics until I took linguistics class, and

776
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: then I was like, what do you mean? I remember

777
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: day one my professor was like, I don't have to

778
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: say I have three cats. I can just say I

779
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: have three cats, and you know what I mean. Therefore,

780
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: the point has been accomplished. Why use lot word when

781
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: from what I was taught, basically, Kevin was a master

782
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 1: of linguistics. He was a linguist. Wow, well, anyway, that's

783
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 1: not what this is about, the whole thing about linguistics.

784
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: But anyway, yes, the Allucinian mysteries are worth a worth

785
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: checking out there in person and also in an audio podcast. Look,

786
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: if there's one thing mysteries do is they leave you hanging. Yeah,

787
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: and you got it. You're just thirsty for the for

788
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: the answers to that mystery. You want to uncover, you

789
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: want to solve it. It's what unsolved mysteries is so hot.

790
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: So we we love those cliffhangers. I hope you love

791
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 1: a cliffhanger. We are leaving you, Dan hang in there, baby,

792
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,959
Speaker 1: but only till Friday, two days from from right now,

793
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: you're going to be into part two of Hadrian and

794
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: Antonus and you're gonna hear all about the Elusinian mysteries.

795
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: It does get so weird, and we're to get to

796
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: I know this. Like it's the thing with these Roman stories.

797
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: They they're, like we said at the beginning, they're so rich.

798
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: There's so many characters, such the historical context is so

799
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: important to these relationships because they're such big relationships. I mean,

800
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 1: if this was you know, Joe the Plumbus and there

801
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: he is and uh and elsa signer, then I don't

802
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 1: know then uh, you know, it would be probably a

803
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: quicker story to tell. We could just like here's the

804
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: market where they worked and we'll talk about that, but

805
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,479
Speaker 1: come on, this is an emperor. You gotta know what's

806
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: going on. Well, because you know, we're so we know

807
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: so much now about how Romans were just straight lyon

808
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: in their records and they're just rumors floating around. They'd

809
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: be like, how about I write that down as if

810
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,280
Speaker 1: it's a fact. Like, so you have to like throw

811
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,919
Speaker 1: in a lot of stuff that turns out to be

812
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: not necessary really true, right, but it makes it more interesting. Listen,

813
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: look at these bitches like gossip in all over the

814
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: Roman Empire. Yeah, that's true, and it leads to another

815
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: two party for us. It's true. I didn't expect it,

816
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 1: but it turned out. I know, we didn't know. Yeah,

817
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: like Marguerite Steinheil, we knew. This is two stories. We're

818
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: going to tell it in two parts. This one we

819
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: was one story, but it's just so long. Yeah. I

820
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: didn't want to give you all a three hour podcast

821
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: about Adrian an answer this, so just two hour and

822
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: a half. How about that? Yeah, I'm going to guess. Yeah,

823
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: we'll see how the kid anyway, Thank you for tuning

824
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: in for this part, and I hope you're excited for

825
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: part two, which is coming at you. Uh please reach

826
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: out to us. Yeah, you know the trill we want

827
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: to hear from you. We feed off of it. It

828
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: nourishes us. So yeah, hit us up. You can email

829
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: us at Romance that I hurt me to you dot com.

830
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: Find us on social media, Twitter and Instagram. I'm at

831
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 1: Dynamite Boom and I'm at Oh Great. It's Eli and

832
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 1: the show is at predict Romance. If you just want

833
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: to follow the show itself and you don't want to

834
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 1: hear about our everyday crap, that's fine too. Uh yeah,

835
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 1: so please keep reaching out, keep listening, and we are

836
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: excited to bring you Part two coming up on Friday.

837
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 1: Can't wait so long, friends, It's time to go. Thanks

838
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: so listening to our show. Tell your friends names, Uncle's

839
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: in dance to listen to our show ridiculous Well Nance