Speaker 1: Misspelling with Tori Spelling and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 2: Hi? Hi?
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing well? I got the memo. We both have
Speaker 2: our glasses on.
Speaker 1: I know. I actually was trying to choose from so
Speaker 1: many that I got here, so I have to tell you, honestly,
Speaker 1: fangirl moment and the Donna Martin it's just I was
Speaker 1: sitting in my in my you know, room in Denver, Colorado,
Speaker 1: growing up, watching you, which is just it's just insane.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Well, after this whole thing with you,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be able to chant Donna Martin five
Speaker 2: hundred fortune eates? Is that right?
Speaker 3: There?
Speaker 1: You go?
Speaker 2: You're gonna get me there, gonna get me up. Well,
Speaker 2: thank you for taking this time with me today. My
Speaker 2: name is and I'm a people pleaser, but I'm also
Speaker 2: a bomb ass business bitch. So can you help me
Speaker 2: get to where I need to be?
Speaker 1: Yes? Of course we're gonna We're going to get you
Speaker 1: there for sure.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, where do where do we even start? How
Speaker 2: did you start? Let's go with let's talk about you first?
Speaker 1: Wow? Thank you. Honestly, I got my start in executive
Speaker 1: search by accident. I knew that when I graduated college.
Speaker 1: I grew up in Denver, and I said, I think
Speaker 1: I'm bigger than Denver and I need to move to
Speaker 1: a big city. And I was a finance major and
Speaker 1: all of that, and I came to New York City
Speaker 1: and I had, you know, a bit of gall on
Speaker 1: me to ask, you know, when I was interviewing, Hey,
Speaker 1: I want to be on Wall Street, Like I want
Speaker 1: to be close to the action, like get me, put
Speaker 1: me in there. But I fell into recruiting by accident,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was just the luck of the draw.
Speaker 1: I was sitting across from a recruiter and they were
Speaker 1: pitching me all of these jobs and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do any of those. And then they said, well,
Speaker 1: if you want to be a people person, right, you
Speaker 1: were in the people business as well, why don't you
Speaker 1: try recruiting. I'm like, I don't know what that is,
Speaker 1: and so I kind of just dismissed it. And then
Speaker 1: they kept coming back to me and saying, I think
Speaker 1: you want to try this, and so I kind of
Speaker 1: just threw out my hands and said, fine, what do
Speaker 1: I have to lose. I was so young, and I
Speaker 1: knew I was smart, and I was like, okay, I'll
Speaker 1: figure it out. And that's where I got started. And
Speaker 1: I was recruiting quants on Wall Street, which is like
Speaker 1: the nerdiest thing you can ever do in your entire life.
Speaker 1: And then I ended up, you know, getting starting my
Speaker 1: own firm, and then I sold it to a larger
Speaker 1: like public executive search firm, which was like the holy
Speaker 1: Grail of executive search. Now you're in the boardroom, you
Speaker 1: are with CEOs and boards and doing all.
Speaker 2: Of your boardroom Sorry, I have to make a movie reference. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I digress for one second. Mommy dearest, did you see it?
Speaker 2: Of course in the boardroom, don't fuck with me, fellas,
Speaker 2: that's right.
Speaker 1: So, by the way, like as a woman in the boardroom,
Speaker 1: it's it is such a different experience, right because a
Speaker 1: there's not many of us in there, and not many
Speaker 1: people that look like me in there, so you're kind
Speaker 1: of dismissed in the beginning, even though, as you said,
Speaker 1: we're badass bitches, you know, running businesses, and you kind
Speaker 1: of get overlooked or sidelined and you're just doing things.
Speaker 1: I found myself early on doing a bit of that
Speaker 1: people pleasing or just you know, kind of nodding and
Speaker 1: going along with things as opposed to life voicing my opinion.
Speaker 2: And what is it like now in the boardroom?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: I am all filled with women? Oh, I mean not you.
Speaker 2: I wish I was still not there.
Speaker 1: It's not like that. It's still not like that. It's
Speaker 1: not full parody yet. But I think it's getting a
Speaker 1: lot better. I think a lot of executive search. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of women in executive search, which is freaking awesome.
Speaker 1: But I would say boardroom wise, we're certainly not there.
Speaker 1: But I've come to a point in my career, like
Speaker 1: I'm forty seven years old. I've done a lot of
Speaker 1: things and I'm just like, you know what, I don't
Speaker 1: give a shit. I'm saying what I want to say.
Speaker 1: That's it. And see, the art toy is about how
Speaker 1: you communicate, right, the art of communicating with polish and
Speaker 1: with gravity and with gravitas, And that's what really puts
Speaker 1: you in a different league. Right then they know not
Speaker 1: to mess with you because you're coming with facts, you're
Speaker 1: articulating it well, you're super polished. They know that they
Speaker 1: can't pull the wool over your eyes. That's what I
Speaker 1: want for.
Speaker 2: You, That's what I want you to want from me
Speaker 2: that I want for me. And did you ever feel
Speaker 2: at a certain point in your career that, for lack
Speaker 2: of a better wording, you had to use your feminine
Speaker 2: wiles to kind of get noticed and heard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, you know, the thing about women is
Speaker 1: that we have this female intuition that there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of that, and there's a little bit of just
Speaker 1: you know, kind of playing up the femininity of being
Speaker 1: in business that you know, men end up kind of
Speaker 1: succumbing to, so you can use it to your advantage, right,
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of the last thing they want
Speaker 1: is like the super aggressive type. And I would say
Speaker 1: that what's worked for me is a lot of humor,
Speaker 1: right Like, humor in the right spots makes you more
Speaker 1: human and it's a very neutralizing factor. It's not like
Speaker 1: you can be humorous as a female or a male,
Speaker 1: right and so like. But if women are funny and witty,
Speaker 1: it just there's a different dynamic because there's also this intuitiveness.
Speaker 2: About us because we're so powerful.
Speaker 1: That's true, That is so true.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: I think we understall ourselves for sure, you know, in
Speaker 1: that respect, I.
Speaker 2: Know for myself that it was a lot about finding
Speaker 2: my worth and realizing it coming to groups. I'm fifty
Speaker 2: two years old this year. This year. I don't know
Speaker 2: why I said this year because not really, because I'll
Speaker 2: be fifty three this year, but fifty two sounds a
Speaker 2: lot better.
Speaker 1: For me.
Speaker 2: I know, when I was younger, I mean the way
Speaker 2: I grew up, I grew up on a set. I
Speaker 2: grew up on a TV show that not only I
Speaker 2: felt like I had to prove my worth because it
Speaker 2: was my father's show, but it was also the biggest
Speaker 2: show globally, you know, it was in everyone's house, and
Speaker 2: so it was a huge responsibility. And I was came
Speaker 2: into it the quietest, you know, the shyest, definitely the funniest.
Speaker 2: And that's the part that I started to use as
Speaker 2: my way in to fit in with the group and
Speaker 2: fit into my surroundings. Was I found. You know, I
Speaker 2: was the youngest of the group. Brian, Austin Green and
Speaker 2: I were the youngest. The others just a little bit older.
Speaker 2: Some I'm a lot older. But to get into conversations
Speaker 2: and stuff, you know, I would use a little funny
Speaker 2: joke or a little eye roll or a little physical
Speaker 2: you know, action and they would start laughing, and slowly
Speaker 2: they were like, oh, this girl's funny. So that was
Speaker 2: my in and then it became just so hard to
Speaker 2: figure out where my brain fit in, if that makes sense, Like, okay,
Speaker 2: so I can make them laugh, but can I communicate
Speaker 2: with them on their level? Am I smart enough? And
Speaker 2: I grew up not believing I was smart enough. I
Speaker 2: think sometimes our education system fails us in ways when
Speaker 2: they're so an archaic, waste, so boxed into putting everyone
Speaker 2: in the same room, on the same level, and it's
Speaker 2: just a way for everyone to just not succeed. So
Speaker 2: I thought, oh my gosh, I'm terrible at math, I'm
Speaker 2: terrible at history. Oh my gosh. So I can't talk numbers,
Speaker 2: I can't talk politics, I can't what can I talk about?
Speaker 2: I could talk about fashion, real good talking about fashion.
Speaker 2: But I did notice when I was young, I would
Speaker 2: use my humor and I would use my sexuality and not.
Speaker 2: I was never like that, like prowess on set, like
Speaker 2: overtly sexual. But I did notice, you know, if I
Speaker 2: wore the cute tops and the mid drifts and the
Speaker 2: boys would comment they'd want to talk to me more.
Speaker 2: So then all of a sudden, you know, you do
Speaker 2: a show like nine O two and oh, and you're
Speaker 2: kind of a baby bird pushed out of your nest
Speaker 2: at twenty six years old, go into the world. You
Speaker 2: suddenly realize very fast that not every product you put
Speaker 2: out there becomes a you know, sensation like nine O
Speaker 2: two and oh. And then you're out there, you know,
Speaker 2: auditioning every day, trying to get the next thing, trying
Speaker 2: to stay relevant, all while learning kind of how do
Speaker 2: I fend for myself in this world? At twenty six
Speaker 2: the humor didn't worry, they sexuality didn't work, and it's like,
Speaker 2: what is next? And that's when I started really sorry,
Speaker 2: am I talking too much?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, please, I feel really comfortable with you for some reason.
Speaker 2: And that's when I started to realize that I had
Speaker 2: a very creative brain and my dad was a big producer.
Speaker 2: I always say the apple don't fall far from the tree.
Speaker 2: I don't. I know it's a silly saying, but it's
Speaker 2: really really true. I grew up just watching him. I mean,
Speaker 2: on weekends when I was five years old, I didn't
Speaker 2: want to be outside playing. I was going through his scripts.
Speaker 2: My mom had his office in leather bound scripts of
Speaker 2: every script he had done. It was like covering Wallda
Speaker 2: wall and I would go and pull down ones and
Speaker 2: start to look at them, have someone read them to
Speaker 2: me until I could read myself, and then I would
Speaker 2: sit there for hours by myself and just read and
Speaker 2: read and read and be like, I like this, here's
Speaker 2: the characters I like. So I knew that I had
Speaker 2: a brain to create. And I found once I went
Speaker 2: out there and kind of proved myself to people, got
Speaker 2: myself into rooms and let them understand where I was
Speaker 2: coming from, it was a game changer. And I realize
Speaker 2: now at fifty two that I'm a total people pleaser,
Speaker 2: but a people pleaser in like life or if I
Speaker 2: am a hired hired gun so that sounds terrible an employee.
Speaker 2: When I am at the Helm, though, and I am
Speaker 2: running things and I am in a room, I can
Speaker 2: be in there and often you know, I'm in writer's rooms,
Speaker 2: I'm in network rooms, and there's some women, but sometimes
Speaker 2: it can be the same predominantly male. When my business
Speaker 2: brain is on in those rooms, I like, you can't
Speaker 2: stop me, and I like, I can hear myself and
Speaker 2: I'm like, you're really very intelligent. You're really you deserve
Speaker 2: to be here, You're really creative. But then I leave
Speaker 2: that room and I'm like walking down the street and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I'm sorry I bump into you. Oh
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, every other word. So my
Speaker 2: two sides find it hard to become one. So we're like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's in a nutshell you.
Speaker 1: I think your experience is, while it's unique, there's pattern recognition, right.
Speaker 1: My job is to recognize patterns. And as I was
Speaker 1: listening to your story, you just happened to get an
Speaker 1: earlier start than everybody else. The stuff that you experienced
Speaker 1: in terms of your auditioning and this and that. It's
Speaker 1: the same as people coming out of college and interviewing.
Speaker 1: We're auditioning, right, We're auditioning for that job, that first job,
Speaker 1: that second job, that third job. People are still auditioning
Speaker 1: right once your mid career, etc. And I think the
Speaker 1: brilliant part of what you said, which I think again,
Speaker 1: like every story is relatable. Right, I grew up in
Speaker 1: the motel business. I was running a motel since I
Speaker 1: was thirteen years old, and toory, can I tell you
Speaker 1: I was embarrassed of that experience. Embarrassed. And when I
Speaker 1: fast forward twenty years later, I was in the boardroom
Speaker 1: with the CEO of SMP Global talking about his succession plan,
Speaker 1: and I brought up the fact that I was, you know,
Speaker 1: running my parents' motel at thirteen years old, watching nine
Speaker 1: O two to zero in the background. Right, that's serious.
Speaker 1: That is that God's honest truth. My sister would die
Speaker 1: if I if I told her that I was talking
Speaker 1: to But that's when I said that in the boardroom,
Speaker 1: their jaws dropped because they were like, wait what. And
Speaker 1: so the admiration of grit and that experience in that
Speaker 1: boardroom is something that they valued that I didn't think
Speaker 1: they valued. Now, relating back to your story, you being
Speaker 1: in your dad's office seeing all of this, you have
Speaker 1: had this gift of experience. So when you are in
Speaker 1: that boardroom, you feel very confident because you have all
Speaker 1: of this skills that have been stacked as your gift
Speaker 1: of experience, and that's why you feel so good. The
Speaker 1: reframe that I would say is that you know, it's
Speaker 1: not about you not being good at math or history
Speaker 1: or whatever. You have a different edge, right, And what
Speaker 1: you did was you outgrew your strategy right when you
Speaker 1: left nine OZHO two and zero. The game changed, but
Speaker 1: your early strategies weren't translating, so now you're translating them
Speaker 1: in the boardroom. Right. But in terms of like the
Speaker 1: people pleasing part, I think where you have to really
Speaker 1: think about is just anchoring in that experience and saying
Speaker 1: I'm a strong person. I know where my boundaries are.
Speaker 1: I don't need to say sorry to everybody, and I
Speaker 1: don't need to be sorry about, you know, the things
Speaker 1: that I bring to the table, even if it is
Speaker 1: kind of bumping into somebody on the street or whatever.
Speaker 1: That's not your fault, right, maybe they were walking crooked,
Speaker 1: they bumped into you. And I think just going to.
Speaker 2: That how I apologize for taking a breath of air.
Speaker 2: It's it's really bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think like redefining sort of
Speaker 1: your identity internally. Tori is right. You're not trying to
Speaker 1: prove you belong. You already know you do. You've just
Speaker 1: been treating it like it's been a temporary state.
Speaker 2: I tend to keep myself really small because I don't
Speaker 2: want to bother I don't know, I don't if I
Speaker 2: keep myself small, then everyone will like me because they
Speaker 2: won't feel left behind.
Speaker 1: No, that is your moment to not do that. Listen,
Speaker 1: you have had this sort of very public history, right
Speaker 1: in the sense of having that acclaimed fame and going
Speaker 1: through your life very publicly, and that is your opportunity
Speaker 1: to double down and say I am owning this.
Speaker 2: I'm really good at Blackjack thinks so different numbers like
Speaker 2: you know, like.
Speaker 1: It's your time to again. Like I said the word anchor,
Speaker 1: you have so much experience, like you, you should be
Speaker 1: leading the charge in that. You should not. You should
Speaker 1: be unapologetic in that right. No one has the experience
Speaker 1: that you do. Why are you apologizing for it?
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's why I'm here with you. I
Speaker 2: don't know. No I do, I must know.
Speaker 1: I must let me ask you this. When that happens
Speaker 1: right in the room, when you're in power, you're not
Speaker 1: thinking about anybody else, are you? Or you just you're
Speaker 1: just thinking about the work. The idea is the outcome?
Speaker 1: Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It's all about the process, yeah right.
Speaker 1: So why is it that afterwards you feel like you
Speaker 1: need to regulate other people's You know.
Speaker 2: I think I feel a lot I feel others feelings,
Speaker 2: Like as soon as someone can walks in a room,
Speaker 2: I can feel how they're feeling, and I adapt to that,
Speaker 2: and I think sometimes not in a good way, or
Speaker 2: I overcompensate to make them okay for whatever is going on,
Speaker 2: which it's none of my business. So I don't know
Speaker 2: why I do that.
Speaker 1: Because you're a feeler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a feeler and I am intuitive. So I say,
Speaker 2: I don't know how to play the board game of chess,
Speaker 2: but I play the life's game of Chess brilliantly like
Speaker 2: leader of the Board because I know how to handle people.
Speaker 2: I know what they can hear and they can't hear.
Speaker 2: And in a business situation, that has behooved me a
Speaker 2: lot because in my field, I deal with a lot
Speaker 2: of actors and not just on sets as a fellow actor,
Speaker 2: but when I'm producing a project in writing, I have
Speaker 2: to deal with talent, and talent comes with ego, and
Speaker 2: that's okay. Humans come with ego. There's different forms of it.
Speaker 2: It doesn't always have to be negative. But I have
Speaker 2: really tapped into how to approach each person differently to
Speaker 2: get the best outcome for them and the project. So
Speaker 2: I think That's why when I deal with actors a lot,
Speaker 2: and especially females, I will tend to take a back seat.
Speaker 2: But then I don't know how to pull myself back
Speaker 2: up to sit side by side.
Speaker 1: So what I would say with that is that, look,
Speaker 1: we need to flip what you think, which is what
Speaker 1: you're saying is over accommodating into sort of your executive superpower,
Speaker 1: but with a boundary. So I can tell you right
Speaker 1: now what you're experiencing is not weakness. It's high EQ.
Speaker 1: But you don't have a control system. So what you're
Speaker 1: starting what is emotional intelligence?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Thanks, right, you have a high degree of emotional intelligence
Speaker 1: because you're feeling what other people are. You know your audience.
Speaker 1: The best high EQ people understand their audience, and then
Speaker 1: you tailor your message and your delivery to what that
Speaker 1: audience wants. That's super high EQ. And then also self
Speaker 1: awareness like who am I in that room versus you
Speaker 1: know who everybody else is?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: But I think what you just described at sort of
Speaker 1: like elite level emotional intelligence is that most people can't
Speaker 1: read the room, and you're reading individuals inside the room.
Speaker 1: So you're not just a feeler, You're an operator. So
Speaker 1: now you're adjusting your approach to what each person needs.
Speaker 1: That's not people pleasing, that's influence. And that's what I
Speaker 1: want to reframe for you today, Right, your people pleasing
Speaker 1: moment is actually your ability to influence them. The only
Speaker 1: difference is that between influence and self abandonment is intention.
Speaker 1: Hm When when you're in a writer's room, that's that's where
Speaker 1: I wanted to land. Right, So when you're in a
Speaker 1: writer's room or producing, you're using that skill on purpose. Right.
Speaker 1: You're reading the ego, you're calibrating the language, you're managing outcomes.
Speaker 1: That's power. But when you're walking down the street apologizing,
Speaker 1: you're using that same skill unconsciously to make other people
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable. So the goal is to isn't to stop
Speaker 1: being intuitive. The goal is to decide when it's a
Speaker 1: tool and when it's a habit.
Speaker 2: I think in Tory in the Wild is people know
Speaker 2: who I am and I don't know. You know, when
Speaker 2: I pass them on the street and they look me,
Speaker 2: you know, it's a split second that they get one moment,
Speaker 2: you know of who do we think she is? And
Speaker 2: who is she when we encountered her? And I always
Speaker 2: smile just because that's who I am. But I just
Speaker 2: feel like I don't want them to think I still am.
Speaker 2: There's still an old story in my head of preconceived
Speaker 2: notion from coming on to the set of nine at sixteen,
Speaker 2: of people thinking, oh, well, her father's you know rich,
Speaker 2: you know she's probably going to be a bitch. You
Speaker 2: know she she's all very spoiled. All the assumptions. I
Speaker 2: know none of that's true. Anyone that works with me
Speaker 2: knows none of that is true. But I still carry
Speaker 2: that old story and go above and beyond to prove
Speaker 2: to people on a daily basis that probably not that
Speaker 2: strangers don't matter, but strangers don't matter. Like I'm trying
Speaker 2: to prove to every single person I encounter, like, look
Speaker 2: at me, I'm so nice. I'm nice, nice, nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, here's what I say to you know, I'm
Speaker 1: going to talk to the to the the boss part
Speaker 1: of you right now. I think that when I coach
Speaker 1: my executives, the one thing that I do tell them
Speaker 1: is to own your narrative, and I'll break down what
Speaker 1: that actually means. Right, anytime you run into somebody, or
Speaker 1: anytime anybody encounters you, there's a split second assumption about you,
Speaker 1: whether they can read it on your face, you happen
Speaker 1: to be more public than the others. I totally get
Speaker 1: it right. I mean I've had a little bit of
Speaker 1: a glimpse of that, given you know, all the stuff
Speaker 1: that's happening on my Instagram. I'll go into Grand Central
Speaker 1: station and someone will recognize me, and if I happen
Speaker 1: to have a you know, not so great, you know,
Speaker 1: bitch face on, it stops me too. So I've I've
Speaker 1: had one iota of what you've experienced, and it's like
Speaker 1: you catch yourself sometimes. But going back to like owning
Speaker 1: your narrative right again, you said it yourself that people
Speaker 1: on the street, it doesn't matter. You might be having
Speaker 1: a bad day, you might be having a good day.
Speaker 1: You might not be smiling as much, you may be
Speaker 1: smiling too much, whatever it is. But when you're in
Speaker 1: a room when people are you're going to encounter people
Speaker 1: now one on one, when I say own your narrative
Speaker 1: is get in front of it, because what you're experiencing
Speaker 1: is they've made assumptions, they're questioning toy and then you
Speaker 1: feel like you're in a hole and you're digging yourself
Speaker 1: out to get to neutral. Yes, when you don't own
Speaker 1: your narrative and get in front of it, saying, hey,
Speaker 1: this is what I'm here to do today, this is
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish,
Speaker 1: get in front of it. So now when you own it,
Speaker 1: there's no question from behind.
Speaker 2: Okay. So let's say I'm walking down the street. I'm
Speaker 2: owning my narrative. What is going to keep me from
Speaker 2: when someone's walking straight on and they don't move aside
Speaker 2: me going oh, I'm sorry and moving aside.
Speaker 1: I think that part is just what if you didn't move?
Speaker 2: I think about it all the time all the time,
Speaker 2: and I'll see them coming and I'm like, what if
Speaker 2: today Today is the day where I'm going to hold
Speaker 2: my power and I'm just going to keep walking and
Speaker 2: they're going to have to move around me, and then
Speaker 2: I will wait to the last second and I go oh,
Speaker 2: and I veeer off. I can't do it. I'm like
Speaker 2: nervous thinking about it. Right now, girl, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: I saw the emotion in what you just said, and honestly, okay,
Speaker 1: because you haven't done it, do it once and it's
Speaker 1: going to make you madly uncomfortable, and then you're going
Speaker 1: to do it again, and then you're going to do
Speaker 1: it again, and then that's going to become your new normal.
Speaker 1: Like doing something uncomfortable is where you grow. And if
Speaker 1: you can't get past this one thing about you know,
Speaker 1: not stepping aside, I never step aside. It's like you
Speaker 1: go on me right, Like you know, I got so
Speaker 1: much stuff going on. I'm like on the phone, I
Speaker 1: have all the bags, all the things whatever, like it
Speaker 1: is what it is right. I am the same way
Speaker 1: in the boardroom. I am bringing all of me. And
Speaker 1: if you're gonna have all of these machinations of what
Speaker 1: you want to discuss, but I know what I have
Speaker 1: to focus on. That's what we're gonna do right now.
Speaker 1: I have enough of emotional awareness of like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I have to do the right thing from a professional standpoint,
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like ten toes down, Tori,
Speaker 1: ten toes down.
Speaker 2: Other time, grip my toes. Don't tiptoe around it.
Speaker 1: Don't tiptoe around. What are you tiptoeing for? What are
Speaker 1: you so afraid of?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Tell me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's just more about.
Speaker 2: I keep giving you the same example, but I'm sure
Speaker 2: there's a billion other examples in my day.
Speaker 1: It's the over compensation part. I think what you're.
Speaker 2: Not doing is you're not so what if they don't
Speaker 2: like me?
Speaker 1: Right? But why do you care about that so much?
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's the problem. That's the real problem.
Speaker 2: And I keep myself small and not equal with partners
Speaker 2: and business people so I can.
Speaker 1: Exercise for you.
Speaker 2: I don't want them to not like me.
Speaker 1: I have a I have two sort of tips and
Speaker 1: tricks for you.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: One is the first sort of tool that I can
Speaker 1: give you is play out your fears. What I mean
Speaker 1: by that is, go in your head, imagine that scenario
Speaker 1: and play the fear all the way out, right, Like
Speaker 1: if I do this, if I say this, then they'll
Speaker 1: do this, then they'll do this. Okay, fine, now you've
Speaker 1: gotten it out of your system. I guarantee you whatever
Speaker 1: is in your head that's the worst case scenario is
Speaker 1: not going to happen. It's just not going to happen
Speaker 1: the way that you think it's going to happen. So
Speaker 1: that's what I say, play out your fears so you
Speaker 1: just kind of like release it from you And the
Speaker 1: second tool that I'll give you is that I call
Speaker 1: it the so what filter, like okay, and you do
Speaker 1: it three times, right, like Okay, I am in this situation,
Speaker 1: so what? And then you go a layer above that
Speaker 1: and say, okay, well if that happens, then this will happen.
Speaker 1: So what. And then you get to the third one.
Speaker 1: There is where you need to concentrate, right, It's that
Speaker 1: third level where you need to concentrate and say, that's
Speaker 1: what matters to me, that's the impact that I need
Speaker 1: to make. So I don't know why I'm worrying about
Speaker 1: this part, right, So you reverse engineer into it. So
Speaker 1: those are kind of like the tools that I can
Speaker 1: give you in that whatever scenario you're facing, you don't
Speaker 1: get paralyzed or stuck or in the same loop of
Speaker 1: people pleasing.
Speaker 2: Right, because I tend to then once I'm in that
Speaker 2: loop of people pleasing, I keep energetically bringing the same
Speaker 2: type of people in and then it's a no win.
Speaker 1: Because look, the woman you are in those rooms, you
Speaker 1: don't have to apologize for existing. Jesus Christ, you know
Speaker 1: this is bringing you into everyday life.
Speaker 2: And yes, honestly, half.
Speaker 1: The time, half the time in your scenario, that other
Speaker 1: person will move.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. But then I'll feel bad the rest
Speaker 2: of the day, don't you dare. I'll be cooking dinner thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: she met at me. Oh man. I mean, so there
Speaker 2: is the personal side, but I still find myself doing it.
Speaker 2: I mean bullying, Like it's so weird to talk about
Speaker 2: bullying at our age. You're younger than me, but yeah,
Speaker 2: but it exists. Maybe not, you know, we can redefine
Speaker 2: the word. Maybe it's not the way we found it
Speaker 2: in high school or you know, growing up, but it
Speaker 2: does live in our lives. And I get really scared
Speaker 2: of bullies because I feel like I can read bullies.
Speaker 2: I sometimes with them it's about I do back down
Speaker 2: fully because I can't navigate them. I can tell them
Speaker 2: what they need to hear so they understand the situation.
Speaker 2: I end up apologizing to them and really making myself small.
Speaker 2: And I found this in my personal life. I've found
Speaker 2: this in my business life, and it's it's tricky and
Speaker 2: there's always I feel like, going to be people in
Speaker 2: your workplace that you work with that are going to
Speaker 2: be that way, and it's about finding the way to
Speaker 2: navigate it and own it, so I belong there as well.
Speaker 2: And that's a real tough one for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think like taking your scenario and kind
Speaker 1: of putting it in the workplace, there's always like the
Speaker 1: toxic worksplace, and you probably of like a bullying manager
Speaker 1: or whatever. And I think the bully dynamic, it looks
Speaker 1: like you can read those bullies, you can kind of
Speaker 1: anticipate them. You can probably even manage them.
Speaker 2: I can manage them, But I think, but it hurts
Speaker 2: my soul, like it's really wears on.
Speaker 1: Because you're still giving them control of the interaction.
Speaker 2: But they need control.
Speaker 1: Who cares what they need?
Speaker 2: Because because.
Speaker 1: Because the moment you start adjusting to keep them calm,
Speaker 1: they've already set the rules of the game.
Speaker 2: Right, So what if they've set the rules for decades
Speaker 2: and then you can't unset those rules.
Speaker 1: No, there's never any okay, there's never any rules that
Speaker 1: can't be bent or broken or rewritten. I just don't
Speaker 1: believe that our constitution, right, we are still doing amendments
Speaker 1: and we're still passing different laws. Like there's nothing that
Speaker 1: is just set in stone, let's be honest, right, And
Speaker 1: so if you think about it that way, dealing with
Speaker 1: like these difficult personalities or bullies or whatever. Your goal
Speaker 1: is not to win them over. Your goal is to
Speaker 1: hold your position right.
Speaker 2: And what that's you can't do those two. See that's
Speaker 2: where I fall short.
Speaker 1: But what that looks like is that you are calm,
Speaker 1: you're neutral, and you're direct. So I'll give you an example.
Speaker 1: You say, so if they they're bullying you, you know, victorium,
Speaker 1: we need to do this, or they're bulldozing you. Whatever,
Speaker 1: you say something like, I hear you, here's how I
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 2: I'm good at that.
Speaker 1: Good another one. That's one perspective, here's the direction we're taking,
Speaker 1: or I'm not aligned with that approach.
Speaker 3: You?
Speaker 1: But did you notice what I did? There? There's no apology,
Speaker 1: there's no over explaining, and there's no shrinking.
Speaker 2: See I would say what you said and then i'd
Speaker 2: probably afterwards go sorry, is that okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Exact?
Speaker 2: Okay? Are you okay? I said that right now?
Speaker 1: Now you just open them up to Hey, there's room
Speaker 1: for us to like challenge her again, there's room for
Speaker 1: us to because what you're doing is you're not making
Speaker 1: up a statement. You're leaving room for them to do more. Right,
Speaker 1: or you're leaving room for them to bully you in
Speaker 1: some other capacity. Right, And so bullies don't respect accommodation, right,
Speaker 1: they respect clarity. And so you're if your fear, your
Speaker 1: fear isn't actually the bully, it's the discomfort of not
Speaker 1: accommodating them.
Speaker 2: Yes, oh my god, you just solved my whole life.
Speaker 2: Now how do I do it?
Speaker 1: I mean you're going to practice. That's how you're going
Speaker 1: to do it. You're going to make these very short
Speaker 1: statements and you are going to, I don't know, press
Speaker 1: your finger into your thigh every single time you want
Speaker 1: to say sorry or something else beyond that what I
Speaker 1: just told you. I hear you. But we're going to
Speaker 1: move in this direction, press your finger into your thigh,
Speaker 1: saying don't you Tory, don't you dare say sorry? You're done? Finished,
Speaker 1: Sit in that awkward silence, let them squirm, and I
Speaker 1: guarantee you're going to feel even more powerful after that.
Speaker 2: Now, what if I hypothetical I'm in a situation where
Speaker 2: it's an ensemble like like nine oh two and zero was,
Speaker 2: or it can be a partnership, you know, and I'm
Speaker 2: not the only quote unquote talent I hate referring to
Speaker 2: myself that way, but the on camera on air whatever
Speaker 2: personality I tend to sometimes get treated less than with
Speaker 2: accommodations than other people who have a stronger voice. How
Speaker 2: do I achieve where it's like, well, fair is fair.
Speaker 2: But you know they say, you know the person that
Speaker 2: doesn't ask for it, The person goes along with everything
Speaker 2: sometimes tends to kind of get pushed aside, and it's
Speaker 2: the person that's like, no, I'm doing it this way.
Speaker 2: That way, the strong personality gets more, How can the
Speaker 2: nice one get more?
Speaker 1: Do you ask for it?
Speaker 2: Sometimes?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Sometimes no, because I have to like believe that people
Speaker 2: treat people fairly.
Speaker 1: So the important question here is because what you're describing
Speaker 1: again has nothing to do with fairness and everything to
Speaker 1: do with signal in group environment, ensembles, partnerships, teams, whatever.
Speaker 1: People don't get treated based on what's fair. They get
Speaker 1: treated on what signal they will accept. And in all
Speaker 1: of that stuff that you just told me, you needn't
Speaker 1: ask for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess so, But I guess how do
Speaker 2: I make my voice? So it seems to me and
Speaker 2: this is all I've ever seen, and I'm trying to unhear.
Speaker 2: That part is the person that's not nice gets more
Speaker 2: the person that you know.
Speaker 1: Yes, what you're talking about delivery there, right, Because I
Speaker 1: think here's here's the misconsumption is that if you say
Speaker 1: it in a short like no is a complete answer, right,
Speaker 1: no is a complete answer. Yeah, that's it. And so
Speaker 1: what you're what you're struggling with is that you are
Speaker 1: you don't want to sound bitchy or you don't want
Speaker 1: to sound aggressive. You don't want to sound the thing
Speaker 1: is because your delivery is it's all in the delivery
Speaker 1: of how you say it, right. So I'm not asking
Speaker 1: you to take all of your incredibly valuable experience and
Speaker 1: anchor it into something that's very loud and aggressive, right,
Speaker 1: because you're saying to me louder personalities kind of becomes
Speaker 1: sort of the default decision makers. And you don't want
Speaker 1: to do that, you don't want to be difficult. But
Speaker 1: what you have to do, Tori, And remember we started
Speaker 1: this conversation about it's the art of communication, right, It's
Speaker 1: the art of polish and delivery and how you deliver
Speaker 1: that information and how you communicate it. So I think
Speaker 1: where the missing link here is you need to become
Speaker 1: very clear. That's not about being difficult, it's about clarity. Right,
Speaker 1: And this is what it sounds like in real life. Right,
Speaker 1: you're going to say something like I'm good with what
Speaker 1: I ever works, right, Instead, here's what works best for me.
Speaker 1: That's not bitchy, no nice, or it's not. But but
Speaker 1: you're still in this position of like, I want to
Speaker 1: be nice. Yeah, being nice is not the same as
Speaker 1: being professional or clear. It could be, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be. And you keep relating it back to
Speaker 1: the nice cities that you want to inject in everybody. Right,
Speaker 1: So instead of saying sure, I can adjust, maybe say
Speaker 1: something like I can do that. Here's what I would
Speaker 1: need in return.
Speaker 2: It's in my business.
Speaker 1: While you're doing it, you're you're smiling while you're talking
Speaker 1: to me, smiling, right, but like you're having a very
Speaker 1: difficult conversation. This is a you know, yes, you're you know.
Speaker 1: I'm listening intently to you. And I think that these
Speaker 1: are still very difficult conversations to have, right because you're
Speaker 1: being very vulnerable here. But I think that it's okay
Speaker 1: not to preface or gift wrap all of your language
Speaker 1: in this like shiny wrapper because at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, what's important to you the gift or the
Speaker 1: rapper the gift, right, So the gift is making sure
Speaker 1: that your messaging and your communication is clear, not the
Speaker 1: smile or bitchiness that you're putting on the wrapper to
Speaker 1: get it across.
Speaker 2: I do find a lot of times that is broken
Speaker 2: down with the communication of text because people can't see
Speaker 2: the emotional intent that you're putting forth. It can be misread,
Speaker 2: and so the.
Speaker 1: Text needs to be a call.
Speaker 2: And now all definitely, businesses are changing so much, sometimes
Speaker 2: so much of it is on text, and I grew
Speaker 2: up terrified of the phone. I don't know why. Yeah, fine, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm now getting back to the place where it's like, gosh,
Speaker 2: if so much is going to be lost in translation
Speaker 2: with the written word, I would rather have the spoken
Speaker 2: word to clarify what is going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. And like I said, sometimes
Speaker 1: you know, a text is just as good as anything
Speaker 1: that you really need to get your point across. I
Speaker 1: think here's what's going to happen. I guarantee if I
Speaker 1: look through your phone, there's a lot of over explaining
Speaker 1: over text as well. You have to be honest instead
Speaker 1: of just like one sentence. I couldn't actually do this exercise.
Speaker 1: When when we get off this cale, go back through
Speaker 1: your phone. If someone asked you for something, how many
Speaker 1: messages did you send instead of just one sentence, like.
Speaker 2: If they ask me a favor or ask huh? I
Speaker 2: also passive aggressive, so that comes into play too.
Speaker 1: You are yeah, I don't believe you, but okay.
Speaker 2: I can't passive aggressive.
Speaker 1: I can't see that?
Speaker 2: Is that an old story? But everyone keeps telling me
Speaker 2: that my whole life.
Speaker 1: I think you're too busy people pleasing to be passive aggressive.
Speaker 2: Well, sometimes when I'm too busy over explaining and people
Speaker 2: pleasing them, they stay back to me. Stop being so
Speaker 2: passive aggressive with me, my friend does. She says it
Speaker 2: all the time to me, and I'm like, my heart, like,
Speaker 2: I get like that because growing up my family was
Speaker 2: very passive aggressive, so I always never want it to
Speaker 2: be that. So like when she says that, when I'm
Speaker 2: like saying, oh, I'm sorry, never mind, I'll do it
Speaker 2: or something, She's like stopping cut the passive aggressive, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I didn't think I was being Well.
Speaker 1: You know why right there, Tori? Because you decided that
Speaker 1: you were going to again say sorry and all that
Speaker 1: they think you're hiding behind your stories of like what
Speaker 1: you really mean, and that's what's translating into passive aggressive right. Oh,
Speaker 1: Passive aggressive communication usually just comes from one thing. You
Speaker 1: have a preference, but you're not stating it directly. Yes, right,
Speaker 1: so it comes out sideways, through over explaining, apologizing, or
Speaker 1: backing off mid sentence and to the other person that
Speaker 1: just doesn't feel nice, it feels unclear, which again going
Speaker 1: back to my point around you know, the more clarity
Speaker 1: and succinctness you have without the apologizing at the end,
Speaker 1: drop the apology at the end, tory, just drop it,
Speaker 1: Just drop it from your vocabulary. You said your point,
Speaker 1: You're done, and I guarantee you people will start shifting.
Speaker 1: You start shifting your behavior. You watch where other people
Speaker 1: shift their behavior because you've made the shift. You are
Speaker 1: now different. That allows them to be different with you.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You said you grew up around a passive aggressive communication household. Right,
Speaker 1: so you're not trying to be that, but instead of
Speaker 1: going direct, you're going softer, and softer isn't clearer? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think in your mind what I'm trying to
Speaker 1: reframe with you. If I am allowed to be your
Speaker 1: executive coach for a minute, please, direct communication is not aggressive.
Speaker 1: It's respectful because now I don't have to second guess
Speaker 1: what the f is Toys telling me? Does she mean it?
Speaker 1: Is she? You know, just saying it just to you know,
Speaker 1: be a passive aggressive leader? Right. Clarity is kindness. Ambiguity
Speaker 1: creates tension. You don't want to be in that business, Toy.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in the business of ambiguity. No,
Speaker 1: So instead of catching yourself saying, oh, sorry, never mind,
Speaker 1: I'll just do it, you just say, actually, here's what
Speaker 1: I prefer, say it with a smile. By the way,
Speaker 1: I guarantee your friend will appreciate it, because now she
Speaker 1: won't go back thinking she passive aggressive? Is that what
Speaker 1: she really meant? Am I right?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: It sounds correct. Just how do you undo fifty two
Speaker 2: years of saying sorry?
Speaker 3: I get I get the undoing right, But I think
Speaker 3: I think that my practical rule for you is say
Speaker 3: the thing, say it once, say it cleanly, without apology.
Speaker 1: When you try that on one person, you're going to
Speaker 1: try it on the next, and the next, and the
Speaker 1: next and that'll be your new normal. You rehearse lines
Speaker 1: right right for a living, that's what you did. How
Speaker 1: many times did you have to rehearse those lines?
Speaker 2: Not many? Because I have a photographic memory.
Speaker 1: Well freaking excellent. I'm about to send you an email
Speaker 1: about all your little practical tools.
Speaker 2: Look to see that.
Speaker 1: But I would say, for for the most time, you
Speaker 1: have fat photographic memory. But there's a rehearsal, and so
Speaker 1: you do it again and.
Speaker 2: Two or three times, right, and you do you know?
Speaker 1: And so with this, the stuff that we're talking about
Speaker 1: is I don't expect you to be perfect every single time, right,
Speaker 1: at least out of the gate. But you're going to
Speaker 1: practice this and you're going to do it again and
Speaker 1: again and again, and then that dialogue is going to
Speaker 1: become your new normal.
Speaker 2: Oh, that new normal would be great. I just wanted
Speaker 2: to imprint on my soul, my being.
Speaker 1: Well, you're a you're a good person. And as as
Speaker 1: most people are innately good people, for the most part,
Speaker 1: we have to give the benefit to humanity. Right of
Speaker 1: there's there's good intent, or you have to receive people
Speaker 1: with positive intent, which is how you want to be perceived. Yes, well, yes, right,
Speaker 1: So even if you just know that there's positive intent
Speaker 1: and that's how you want to approach it. That's why
Speaker 1: it's really really important to be very clear, right and
Speaker 1: so you're saying it with positive intent, and if you
Speaker 1: know that that's coming from a good place, you don't
Speaker 1: need to be in the prove it game. I don't
Speaker 1: need you to prove it to me that you're a
Speaker 1: good person. I can see that we've had a really
Speaker 1: wonderful conversation. True, But for you, I want you to
Speaker 1: hold your power in that room.
Speaker 2: I know I want to hold my head up, hie,
Speaker 2: especially because I'm getting older and the more I hold
Speaker 2: it down, it's just getting more wrinkly. Got it, I
Speaker 2: got it? We hold it up, pie right now now on.
Speaker 1: All the creams and all the yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: But I feel like I have so much that I
Speaker 2: want to do in this world. My dad was such
Speaker 2: an amazing, unique human in the sense that he was kind,
Speaker 2: like so kind, would talk to anyone and everyone, and
Speaker 2: really liked people. And I really like people. I love people,
Speaker 2: and I'm interested in people and their stories. And at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, he just wanted to entertain them,
Speaker 2: make them smile. That's it, And that's really my big
Speaker 2: goal in this world is with so much going on,
Speaker 2: we all have such hard lives within our lives that
Speaker 2: no one knows about, you know. I just want people
Speaker 2: to be entertained. I used to say that was by
Speaker 2: giving them TV shows. No one really watches TV anymore,
Speaker 2: but you know, whether it's in the theater, whether it's
Speaker 2: on your television, on your computer, on your phone. I
Speaker 2: want to be able to deliver that. I think I
Speaker 2: have a lot to offer. I think my one of
Speaker 2: my superpowers is I don't know why I feel so
Speaker 2: confident talking to you look at me. I would never
Speaker 2: talk this way anyone else. I'd be like, don't let
Speaker 2: them know. I'm smarter worthy. But I think one of
Speaker 2: my superpowers is being, like I said, to read people,
Speaker 2: but also being able to change with the times. I'm
Speaker 2: able to be a forward thinker of what is to
Speaker 2: come next, and I think that's a really special tool.
Speaker 2: So I just need to get out of my own
Speaker 2: way and out of the way of the people that
Speaker 2: want to keep me down to get to that so
Speaker 2: I can rule the world.
Speaker 1: But can I tell you you doing You're doing it now? Right?
Speaker 1: Like what you just said is actually incredibly clear. You
Speaker 1: just need to own it up here. And if your
Speaker 1: goal is to it, I would say, actually, your goal
Speaker 1: isn't just to entertain people, it's to move people, right.
Speaker 1: Entertainment is the vehicle. Yes, connection is the outcome. And
Speaker 1: what you described on reading people and adapting and seeing
Speaker 1: what's coming next, that's not just intuition, that's taste, it's timing.
Speaker 1: It's emotional intelligence. And I think what great creators and
Speaker 1: producers and executives, that's what they're built on. And so
Speaker 1: for you, it's not a capability gap. You have a
Speaker 1: permission gap. And I don't know who's permission you're waiting for,
Speaker 1: but if it's everybody else's, the answer.
Speaker 2: Is yes, whose permission am I waiting for? I don't know,
Speaker 2: is it my own?
Speaker 1: Probably you're doing all of this stuff right like if
Speaker 1: you're waiting for few, if you're waiting to feel like
Speaker 1: this is the version of you everywhere you already have it.
Speaker 1: You are accessing it selectively, But you said it yourself.
Speaker 1: You can just sit in room, speak clearly, lead the conversations,
Speaker 1: own your ideas. This podcast, like this is the modality
Speaker 1: in which you are putting all of this into the world.
Speaker 1: And so I feel like, you know, listening to you,
Speaker 1: I've connected those dots. It's not about being more confidence.
Speaker 1: It's about stopping that on off switch right of like
Speaker 1: my people pleasing am I not your ceiling isn't your talent.
Speaker 1: It's where you stop letting your self show up fully.
Speaker 1: And I think in this modality, like I said, if
Speaker 1: I were coaching you, I'd focus on one thing. Same
Speaker 1: voice in the room, as on the street, as on
Speaker 1: this podcast.
Speaker 2: That's it so okay to still giggle?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, it is. I Like I said, we
Speaker 1: started this conversation with you know, the humor in the boardroom.
Speaker 1: Humor goes a long way, and you know, people want
Speaker 1: to be with nice people. People want to talk to
Speaker 1: like fun people, right, like being comfortable. You're comfortable with me.
Speaker 1: I'm listening intently. And trust is a superpower. Right, We
Speaker 1: had a very honest, vulnerable conversation. That's part of your superpower.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Where can my listeners find you? Oh, what's
Speaker 2: your address? I'll be over in the next hour.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm the elite recruiter on Instagram and TikTok and
Speaker 1: all of their and yeah, depolybias dot com. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we're helping all kinds of people just kind of get
Speaker 1: out of their own way and get unstuck and move forward.
Speaker 2: And do you believe it's never too late to get
Speaker 2: unstuck and move forward? Oh?
Speaker 1: Never?
Speaker 2: Ever, What is the oldest client you ever had come
Speaker 2: to you and say I want to change?
Speaker 1: Gosh, I've coached people well into their seventies.
Speaker 2: Wow, very cool. Yeah, I love that I'm going to
Speaker 2: change in my fifties, so you won't have to coach
Speaker 2: me in my seventies.
Speaker 1: How's that? But look, I'm glad to be your personal cheerleader.
Speaker 1: I think you already have what it takes. You just
Speaker 1: needed that that extra nudge and clarity on And you
Speaker 1: don't need my permission, just permission yourself right to know
Speaker 1: that no is a full sentence.
Speaker 2: I love that My thing that I tell people is
Speaker 2: no is the first word towards yes. Because in entertainment
Speaker 2: a lot you get the word no, no, no, And
Speaker 2: I always say, just get me in the room, get
Speaker 2: me in the room, al convince someone sees very good
Speaker 2: at that.
Speaker 1: And that's true for that scenario. If you if you've
Speaker 1: read the book by Chris Voss. Never split the difference,
Speaker 1: right like never never take no as your first answer, right,
Speaker 1: There's always a negotiation. There's an avenue for that when
Speaker 1: you know you want to do something with intent, right like,
Speaker 1: don't take the first no. But I think when people
Speaker 1: are asking something of you that you know you can't
Speaker 1: deliver on, then know is a complete sentence.
Speaker 2: Oh, and not no ish or not no.
Speaker 1: Correct, not no sorry, But.
Speaker 2: I know I have to be okay saying no, and
Speaker 2: I'm still a nice person.
Speaker 1: You are a nice person. That's a fact.
Speaker 2: Can I say I'm going to tell you right now
Speaker 2: with absolution it's a nice note. Can I say that?
Speaker 1: Yes, you can.
Speaker 2: That's not clear though, but.
Speaker 1: Then full stop, or say I'm saying no but nicely.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Right. If you feel like you have.
Speaker 1: To justify a rapper, if you have to put a
Speaker 1: little rapper on it, then say it out loud. It's okay,
Speaker 1: I'm saying no, but it's a nice no. Thank you.
Speaker 2: I'm saying thank you. Helps I'm saying no, but it's
Speaker 2: a nice no. I'm saying no nicely.
Speaker 1: That's the new Tory way. That's that's what you're going
Speaker 1: to do. If that's what makes you feel comfortable saying no,
Speaker 1: do it that way. Everyone has a style that's going
Speaker 1: to be your style.
Speaker 2: Watch out world. Saying no when she's sticking to it