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Speaker 1: Misspelling with Tori Spelling and iHeartRadio Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hi? Hi?

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Speaker 1: How are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well? I got the memo. We both have

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Speaker 2: our glasses on.

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Speaker 1: I know. I actually was trying to choose from so

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Speaker 1: many that I got here, so I have to tell you, honestly,

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Speaker 1: fangirl moment and the Donna Martin it's just I was

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Speaker 1: sitting in my in my you know, room in Denver, Colorado,

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Speaker 1: growing up, watching you, which is just it's just insane.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Well, after this whole thing with you,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be able to chant Donna Martin five

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Speaker 2: hundred fortune eates? Is that right?

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Speaker 3: There?

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Speaker 1: You go?

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Speaker 2: You're gonna get me there, gonna get me up. Well,

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Speaker 2: thank you for taking this time with me today. My

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Speaker 2: name is and I'm a people pleaser, but I'm also

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Speaker 2: a bomb ass business bitch. So can you help me

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Speaker 2: get to where I need to be?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Of course we're gonna We're going to get you

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Speaker 1: there for sure.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, where do where do we even start? How

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Speaker 2: did you start? Let's go with let's talk about you first?

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Speaker 1: Wow? Thank you. Honestly, I got my start in executive

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Speaker 1: search by accident. I knew that when I graduated college.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Denver, and I said, I think

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Speaker 1: I'm bigger than Denver and I need to move to

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Speaker 1: a big city. And I was a finance major and

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Speaker 1: all of that, and I came to New York City

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Speaker 1: and I had, you know, a bit of gall on

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Speaker 1: me to ask, you know, when I was interviewing, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I want to be on Wall Street, Like I want

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Speaker 1: to be close to the action, like get me, put

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Speaker 1: me in there. But I fell into recruiting by accident,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it was just the luck of the draw.

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Speaker 1: I was sitting across from a recruiter and they were

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Speaker 1: pitching me all of these jobs and I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to do any of those. And then they said, well,

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Speaker 1: if you want to be a people person, right, you

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Speaker 1: were in the people business as well, why don't you

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Speaker 1: try recruiting. I'm like, I don't know what that is,

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Speaker 1: and so I kind of just dismissed it. And then

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Speaker 1: they kept coming back to me and saying, I think

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Speaker 1: you want to try this, and so I kind of

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Speaker 1: just threw out my hands and said, fine, what do

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Speaker 1: I have to lose. I was so young, and I

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Speaker 1: knew I was smart, and I was like, okay, I'll

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Speaker 1: figure it out. And that's where I got started. And

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Speaker 1: I was recruiting quants on Wall Street, which is like

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Speaker 1: the nerdiest thing you can ever do in your entire life.

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Speaker 1: And then I ended up, you know, getting starting my

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Speaker 1: own firm, and then I sold it to a larger

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Speaker 1: like public executive search firm, which was like the holy

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Speaker 1: Grail of executive search. Now you're in the boardroom, you

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Speaker 1: are with CEOs and boards and doing all.

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Speaker 2: Of your boardroom Sorry, I have to make a movie reference. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I digress for one second. Mommy dearest, did you see it?

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Speaker 2: Of course in the boardroom, don't fuck with me, fellas,

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Speaker 2: that's right.

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Speaker 1: So, by the way, like as a woman in the boardroom,

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Speaker 1: it's it is such a different experience, right because a

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Speaker 1: there's not many of us in there, and not many

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Speaker 1: people that look like me in there, so you're kind

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Speaker 1: of dismissed in the beginning, even though, as you said,

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Speaker 1: we're badass bitches, you know, running businesses, and you kind

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Speaker 1: of get overlooked or sidelined and you're just doing things.

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Speaker 1: I found myself early on doing a bit of that

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Speaker 1: people pleasing or just you know, kind of nodding and

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Speaker 1: going along with things as opposed to life voicing my opinion.

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Speaker 2: And what is it like now in the boardroom?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: I am all filled with women? Oh, I mean not you.

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Speaker 2: I wish I was still not there.

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Speaker 1: It's not like that. It's still not like that. It's

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Speaker 1: not full parody yet. But I think it's getting a

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Speaker 1: lot better. I think a lot of executive search. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of women in executive search, which is freaking awesome.

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Speaker 1: But I would say boardroom wise, we're certainly not there.

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Speaker 1: But I've come to a point in my career, like

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Speaker 1: I'm forty seven years old. I've done a lot of

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Speaker 1: things and I'm just like, you know what, I don't

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Speaker 1: give a shit. I'm saying what I want to say.

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Speaker 1: That's it. And see, the art toy is about how

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Speaker 1: you communicate, right, the art of communicating with polish and

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Speaker 1: with gravity and with gravitas, And that's what really puts

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Speaker 1: you in a different league. Right then they know not

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Speaker 1: to mess with you because you're coming with facts, you're

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Speaker 1: articulating it well, you're super polished. They know that they

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Speaker 1: can't pull the wool over your eyes. That's what I

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Speaker 1: want for.

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Speaker 2: You, That's what I want you to want from me

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Speaker 2: that I want for me. And did you ever feel

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Speaker 2: at a certain point in your career that, for lack

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Speaker 2: of a better wording, you had to use your feminine

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Speaker 2: wiles to kind of get noticed and heard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, you know, the thing about women is

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Speaker 1: that we have this female intuition that there's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of that, and there's a little bit of just

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of playing up the femininity of being

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Speaker 1: in business that you know, men end up kind of

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Speaker 1: succumbing to, so you can use it to your advantage, right,

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit of the last thing they want

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Speaker 1: is like the super aggressive type. And I would say

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Speaker 1: that what's worked for me is a lot of humor,

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Speaker 1: right Like, humor in the right spots makes you more

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Speaker 1: human and it's a very neutralizing factor. It's not like

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Speaker 1: you can be humorous as a female or a male,

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Speaker 1: right and so like. But if women are funny and witty,

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Speaker 1: it just there's a different dynamic because there's also this intuitiveness.

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Speaker 2: About us because we're so powerful.

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Speaker 1: That's true, That is so true.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 1: I think we understall ourselves for sure, you know, in

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Speaker 1: that respect, I.

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Speaker 2: Know for myself that it was a lot about finding

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Speaker 2: my worth and realizing it coming to groups. I'm fifty

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Speaker 2: two years old this year. This year. I don't know

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Speaker 2: why I said this year because not really, because I'll

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Speaker 2: be fifty three this year, but fifty two sounds a

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Speaker 2: lot better.

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Speaker 1: For me.

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Speaker 2: I know, when I was younger, I mean the way

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Speaker 2: I grew up, I grew up on a set. I

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Speaker 2: grew up on a TV show that not only I

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Speaker 2: felt like I had to prove my worth because it

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Speaker 2: was my father's show, but it was also the biggest

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Speaker 2: show globally, you know, it was in everyone's house, and

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Speaker 2: so it was a huge responsibility. And I was came

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Speaker 2: into it the quietest, you know, the shyest, definitely the funniest.

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Speaker 2: And that's the part that I started to use as

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Speaker 2: my way in to fit in with the group and

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Speaker 2: fit into my surroundings. Was I found. You know, I

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Speaker 2: was the youngest of the group. Brian, Austin Green and

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Speaker 2: I were the youngest. The others just a little bit older.

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Speaker 2: Some I'm a lot older. But to get into conversations

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Speaker 2: and stuff, you know, I would use a little funny

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Speaker 2: joke or a little eye roll or a little physical

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Speaker 2: you know, action and they would start laughing, and slowly

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Speaker 2: they were like, oh, this girl's funny. So that was

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Speaker 2: my in and then it became just so hard to

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Speaker 2: figure out where my brain fit in, if that makes sense, Like, okay,

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Speaker 2: so I can make them laugh, but can I communicate

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Speaker 2: with them on their level? Am I smart enough? And

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Speaker 2: I grew up not believing I was smart enough. I

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Speaker 2: think sometimes our education system fails us in ways when

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Speaker 2: they're so an archaic, waste, so boxed into putting everyone

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Speaker 2: in the same room, on the same level, and it's

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Speaker 2: just a way for everyone to just not succeed. So

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Speaker 2: I thought, oh my gosh, I'm terrible at math, I'm

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Speaker 2: terrible at history. Oh my gosh. So I can't talk numbers,

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Speaker 2: I can't talk politics, I can't what can I talk about?

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Speaker 2: I could talk about fashion, real good talking about fashion.

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Speaker 2: But I did notice when I was young, I would

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Speaker 2: use my humor and I would use my sexuality and not.

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Speaker 2: I was never like that, like prowess on set, like

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Speaker 2: overtly sexual. But I did notice, you know, if I

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Speaker 2: wore the cute tops and the mid drifts and the

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Speaker 2: boys would comment they'd want to talk to me more.

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Speaker 2: So then all of a sudden, you know, you do

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Speaker 2: a show like nine O two and oh, and you're

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Speaker 2: kind of a baby bird pushed out of your nest

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Speaker 2: at twenty six years old, go into the world. You

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Speaker 2: suddenly realize very fast that not every product you put

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Speaker 2: out there becomes a you know, sensation like nine O

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Speaker 2: two and oh. And then you're out there, you know,

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Speaker 2: auditioning every day, trying to get the next thing, trying

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Speaker 2: to stay relevant, all while learning kind of how do

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Speaker 2: I fend for myself in this world? At twenty six

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Speaker 2: the humor didn't worry, they sexuality didn't work, and it's like,

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Speaker 2: what is next? And that's when I started really sorry,

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Speaker 2: am I talking too much?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: No, please, I feel really comfortable with you for some reason.

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Speaker 2: And that's when I started to realize that I had

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Speaker 2: a very creative brain and my dad was a big producer.

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Speaker 2: I always say the apple don't fall far from the tree.

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Speaker 2: I don't. I know it's a silly saying, but it's

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Speaker 2: really really true. I grew up just watching him. I mean,

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Speaker 2: on weekends when I was five years old, I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to be outside playing. I was going through his scripts.

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Speaker 2: My mom had his office in leather bound scripts of

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Speaker 2: every script he had done. It was like covering Wallda

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Speaker 2: wall and I would go and pull down ones and

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Speaker 2: start to look at them, have someone read them to

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Speaker 2: me until I could read myself, and then I would

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Speaker 2: sit there for hours by myself and just read and

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Speaker 2: read and read and be like, I like this, here's

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Speaker 2: the characters I like. So I knew that I had

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Speaker 2: a brain to create. And I found once I went

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Speaker 2: out there and kind of proved myself to people, got

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Speaker 2: myself into rooms and let them understand where I was

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Speaker 2: coming from, it was a game changer. And I realize

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Speaker 2: now at fifty two that I'm a total people pleaser,

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Speaker 2: but a people pleaser in like life or if I

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Speaker 2: am a hired hired gun so that sounds terrible an employee.

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Speaker 2: When I am at the Helm, though, and I am

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Speaker 2: running things and I am in a room, I can

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Speaker 2: be in there and often you know, I'm in writer's rooms,

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Speaker 2: I'm in network rooms, and there's some women, but sometimes

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Speaker 2: it can be the same predominantly male. When my business

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Speaker 2: brain is on in those rooms, I like, you can't

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Speaker 2: stop me, and I like, I can hear myself and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you're really very intelligent. You're really you deserve

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Speaker 2: to be here, You're really creative. But then I leave

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Speaker 2: that room and I'm like walking down the street and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I'm sorry I bump into you. Oh

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, every other word. So my

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Speaker 2: two sides find it hard to become one. So we're like, oh, no,

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Speaker 2: it's it's it's in a nutshell you.

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Speaker 1: I think your experience is, while it's unique, there's pattern recognition, right.

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Speaker 1: My job is to recognize patterns. And as I was

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Speaker 1: listening to your story, you just happened to get an

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Speaker 1: earlier start than everybody else. The stuff that you experienced

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Speaker 1: in terms of your auditioning and this and that. It's

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Speaker 1: the same as people coming out of college and interviewing.

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Speaker 1: We're auditioning, right, We're auditioning for that job, that first job,

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Speaker 1: that second job, that third job. People are still auditioning

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Speaker 1: right once your mid career, etc. And I think the

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Speaker 1: brilliant part of what you said, which I think again,

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Speaker 1: like every story is relatable. Right, I grew up in

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Speaker 1: the motel business. I was running a motel since I

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Speaker 1: was thirteen years old, and toory, can I tell you

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Speaker 1: I was embarrassed of that experience. Embarrassed. And when I

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Speaker 1: fast forward twenty years later, I was in the boardroom

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Speaker 1: with the CEO of SMP Global talking about his succession plan,

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Speaker 1: and I brought up the fact that I was, you know,

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Speaker 1: running my parents' motel at thirteen years old, watching nine

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Speaker 1: O two to zero in the background. Right, that's serious.

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Speaker 1: That is that God's honest truth. My sister would die

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Speaker 1: if I if I told her that I was talking

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Speaker 1: to But that's when I said that in the boardroom,

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Speaker 1: their jaws dropped because they were like, wait what. And

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Speaker 1: so the admiration of grit and that experience in that

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Speaker 1: boardroom is something that they valued that I didn't think

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Speaker 1: they valued. Now, relating back to your story, you being

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Speaker 1: in your dad's office seeing all of this, you have

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Speaker 1: had this gift of experience. So when you are in

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Speaker 1: that boardroom, you feel very confident because you have all

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Speaker 1: of this skills that have been stacked as your gift

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Speaker 1: of experience, and that's why you feel so good. The

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Speaker 1: reframe that I would say is that you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not about you not being good at math or history

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Speaker 1: or whatever. You have a different edge, right, And what

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Speaker 1: you did was you outgrew your strategy right when you

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Speaker 1: left nine OZHO two and zero. The game changed, but

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Speaker 1: your early strategies weren't translating, so now you're translating them

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Speaker 1: in the boardroom. Right. But in terms of like the

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Speaker 1: people pleasing part, I think where you have to really

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Speaker 1: think about is just anchoring in that experience and saying

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Speaker 1: I'm a strong person. I know where my boundaries are.

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Speaker 1: I don't need to say sorry to everybody, and I

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Speaker 1: don't need to be sorry about, you know, the things

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Speaker 1: that I bring to the table, even if it is

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Speaker 1: kind of bumping into somebody on the street or whatever.

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Speaker 1: That's not your fault, right, maybe they were walking crooked,

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Speaker 1: they bumped into you. And I think just going to.

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Speaker 2: That how I apologize for taking a breath of air.

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Speaker 2: It's it's really bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think like redefining sort of

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Speaker 1: your identity internally. Tori is right. You're not trying to

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Speaker 1: prove you belong. You already know you do. You've just

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Speaker 1: been treating it like it's been a temporary state.

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Speaker 2: I tend to keep myself really small because I don't

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Speaker 2: want to bother I don't know, I don't if I

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Speaker 2: keep myself small, then everyone will like me because they

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Speaker 2: won't feel left behind.

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Speaker 1: No, that is your moment to not do that. Listen,

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Speaker 1: you have had this sort of very public history, right

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Speaker 1: in the sense of having that acclaimed fame and going

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Speaker 1: through your life very publicly, and that is your opportunity

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Speaker 1: to double down and say I am owning this.

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Speaker 2: I'm really good at Blackjack thinks so different numbers like

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Speaker 2: you know, like.

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Speaker 1: It's your time to again. Like I said the word anchor,

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Speaker 1: you have so much experience, like you, you should be

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Speaker 1: leading the charge in that. You should not. You should

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Speaker 1: be unapologetic in that right. No one has the experience

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Speaker 1: that you do. Why are you apologizing for it?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. That's why I'm here with you. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. No I do, I must know.

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Speaker 1: I must let me ask you this. When that happens

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Speaker 1: right in the room, when you're in power, you're not

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Speaker 1: thinking about anybody else, are you? Or you just you're

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Speaker 1: just thinking about the work. The idea is the outcome?

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? It's all about the process, yeah right.

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Speaker 1: So why is it that afterwards you feel like you

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Speaker 1: need to regulate other people's You know.

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Speaker 2: I think I feel a lot I feel others feelings,

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Speaker 2: Like as soon as someone can walks in a room,

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Speaker 2: I can feel how they're feeling, and I adapt to that,

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Speaker 2: and I think sometimes not in a good way, or

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Speaker 2: I overcompensate to make them okay for whatever is going on,

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Speaker 2: which it's none of my business. So I don't know

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Speaker 2: why I do that.

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Speaker 1: Because you're a feeler.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a feeler and I am intuitive. So I say,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to play the board game of chess,

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Speaker 2: but I play the life's game of Chess brilliantly like

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Speaker 2: leader of the Board because I know how to handle people.

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Speaker 2: I know what they can hear and they can't hear.

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Speaker 2: And in a business situation, that has behooved me a

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Speaker 2: lot because in my field, I deal with a lot

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Speaker 2: of actors and not just on sets as a fellow actor,

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Speaker 2: but when I'm producing a project in writing, I have

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Speaker 2: to deal with talent, and talent comes with ego, and

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Speaker 2: that's okay. Humans come with ego. There's different forms of it.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't always have to be negative. But I have

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Speaker 2: really tapped into how to approach each person differently to

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Speaker 2: get the best outcome for them and the project. So

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Speaker 2: I think That's why when I deal with actors a lot,

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Speaker 2: and especially females, I will tend to take a back seat.

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Speaker 2: But then I don't know how to pull myself back

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Speaker 2: up to sit side by side.

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Speaker 1: So what I would say with that is that, look,

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Speaker 1: we need to flip what you think, which is what

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Speaker 1: you're saying is over accommodating into sort of your executive superpower,

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Speaker 1: but with a boundary. So I can tell you right

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Speaker 1: now what you're experiencing is not weakness. It's high EQ.

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Speaker 1: But you don't have a control system. So what you're

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Speaker 1: starting what is emotional intelligence?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Thanks, right, you have a high degree of emotional intelligence

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Speaker 1: because you're feeling what other people are. You know your audience.

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Speaker 1: The best high EQ people understand their audience, and then

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Speaker 1: you tailor your message and your delivery to what that

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Speaker 1: audience wants. That's super high EQ. And then also self

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Speaker 1: awareness like who am I in that room versus you

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Speaker 1: know who everybody else is?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: But I think what you just described at sort of

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Speaker 1: like elite level emotional intelligence is that most people can't

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Speaker 1: read the room, and you're reading individuals inside the room.

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Speaker 1: So you're not just a feeler, You're an operator. So

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Speaker 1: now you're adjusting your approach to what each person needs.

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Speaker 1: That's not people pleasing, that's influence. And that's what I

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Speaker 1: want to reframe for you today, Right, your people pleasing

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Speaker 1: moment is actually your ability to influence them. The only

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Speaker 1: difference is that between influence and self abandonment is intention.

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Speaker 1: Hm When when you're in a writer's room, that's that's where

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Speaker 1: I wanted to land. Right, So when you're in a

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Speaker 1: writer's room or producing, you're using that skill on purpose. Right.

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Speaker 1: You're reading the ego, you're calibrating the language, you're managing outcomes.

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Speaker 1: That's power. But when you're walking down the street apologizing,

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Speaker 1: you're using that same skill unconsciously to make other people

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Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable. So the goal is to isn't to stop

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Speaker 1: being intuitive. The goal is to decide when it's a

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Speaker 1: tool and when it's a habit.

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Speaker 2: I think in Tory in the Wild is people know

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Speaker 2: who I am and I don't know. You know, when

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Speaker 2: I pass them on the street and they look me,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's a split second that they get one moment,

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Speaker 2: you know of who do we think she is? And

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Speaker 2: who is she when we encountered her? And I always

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Speaker 2: smile just because that's who I am. But I just

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Speaker 2: feel like I don't want them to think I still am.

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Speaker 2: There's still an old story in my head of preconceived

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Speaker 2: notion from coming on to the set of nine at sixteen,

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Speaker 2: of people thinking, oh, well, her father's you know rich,

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Speaker 2: you know she's probably going to be a bitch. You

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Speaker 2: know she she's all very spoiled. All the assumptions. I

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Speaker 2: know none of that's true. Anyone that works with me

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Speaker 2: knows none of that is true. But I still carry

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Speaker 2: that old story and go above and beyond to prove

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Speaker 2: to people on a daily basis that probably not that

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Speaker 2: strangers don't matter, but strangers don't matter. Like I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to prove to every single person I encounter, like, look

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Speaker 2: at me, I'm so nice. I'm nice, nice, nice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, here's what I say to you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to talk to the to the the boss part

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Speaker 1: of you right now. I think that when I coach

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Speaker 1: my executives, the one thing that I do tell them

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Speaker 1: is to own your narrative, and I'll break down what

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Speaker 1: that actually means. Right, anytime you run into somebody, or

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Speaker 1: anytime anybody encounters you, there's a split second assumption about you,

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Speaker 1: whether they can read it on your face, you happen

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Speaker 1: to be more public than the others. I totally get

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Speaker 1: it right. I mean I've had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a glimpse of that, given you know, all the stuff

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Speaker 1: that's happening on my Instagram. I'll go into Grand Central

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Speaker 1: station and someone will recognize me, and if I happen

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Speaker 1: to have a you know, not so great, you know,

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Speaker 1: bitch face on, it stops me too. So I've I've

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Speaker 1: had one iota of what you've experienced, and it's like

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Speaker 1: you catch yourself sometimes. But going back to like owning

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Speaker 1: your narrative right again, you said it yourself that people

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Speaker 1: on the street, it doesn't matter. You might be having

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Speaker 1: a bad day, you might be having a good day.

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Speaker 1: You might not be smiling as much, you may be

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Speaker 1: smiling too much, whatever it is. But when you're in

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Speaker 1: a room when people are you're going to encounter people

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Speaker 1: now one on one, when I say own your narrative

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Speaker 1: is get in front of it, because what you're experiencing

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Speaker 1: is they've made assumptions, they're questioning toy and then you

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Speaker 1: feel like you're in a hole and you're digging yourself

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Speaker 1: out to get to neutral. Yes, when you don't own

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Speaker 1: your narrative and get in front of it, saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is what I'm here to do today, this is

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish,

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Speaker 1: get in front of it. So now when you own it,

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Speaker 1: there's no question from behind.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So let's say I'm walking down the street. I'm

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Speaker 2: owning my narrative. What is going to keep me from

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Speaker 2: when someone's walking straight on and they don't move aside

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Speaker 2: me going oh, I'm sorry and moving aside.

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Speaker 1: I think that part is just what if you didn't move?

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Speaker 2: I think about it all the time all the time,

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Speaker 2: and I'll see them coming and I'm like, what if

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Speaker 2: today Today is the day where I'm going to hold

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Speaker 2: my power and I'm just going to keep walking and

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Speaker 2: they're going to have to move around me, and then

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Speaker 2: I will wait to the last second and I go oh,

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Speaker 2: and I veeer off. I can't do it. I'm like

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Speaker 2: nervous thinking about it. Right now, girl, I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: I saw the emotion in what you just said, and honestly, okay,

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Speaker 1: because you haven't done it, do it once and it's

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Speaker 1: going to make you madly uncomfortable, and then you're going

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Speaker 1: to do it again, and then you're going to do

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Speaker 1: it again, and then that's going to become your new normal.

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Speaker 1: Like doing something uncomfortable is where you grow. And if

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Speaker 1: you can't get past this one thing about you know,

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Speaker 1: not stepping aside, I never step aside. It's like you

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Speaker 1: go on me right, Like you know, I got so

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Speaker 1: much stuff going on. I'm like on the phone, I

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Speaker 1: have all the bags, all the things whatever, like it

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Speaker 1: is what it is right. I am the same way

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Speaker 1: in the boardroom. I am bringing all of me. And

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna have all of these machinations of what

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Speaker 1: you want to discuss, but I know what I have

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00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: to focus on. That's what we're gonna do right now.

432
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: I have enough of emotional awareness of like, yeah, you know,

433
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: I have to do the right thing from a professional standpoint,

434
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like ten toes down, Tori,

435
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: ten toes down.

436
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: Other time, grip my toes. Don't tiptoe around it.

437
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: Don't tiptoe around. What are you tiptoeing for? What are

438
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: you so afraid of?

439
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 2: I don't know. Tell me.

440
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's just more about.

441
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: I keep giving you the same example, but I'm sure

442
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: there's a billion other examples in my day.

443
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: It's the over compensation part. I think what you're.

444
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: Not doing is you're not so what if they don't

445
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 2: like me?

446
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: Right? But why do you care about that so much?

447
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's the problem. That's the real problem.

448
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 2: And I keep myself small and not equal with partners

449
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 2: and business people so I can.

450
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: Exercise for you.

451
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: I don't want them to not like me.

452
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: I have a I have two sort of tips and

453
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: tricks for you.

454
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: Okay.

455
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: One is the first sort of tool that I can

456
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: give you is play out your fears. What I mean

457
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: by that is, go in your head, imagine that scenario

458
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: and play the fear all the way out, right, Like

459
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: if I do this, if I say this, then they'll

460
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: do this, then they'll do this. Okay, fine, now you've

461
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: gotten it out of your system. I guarantee you whatever

462
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: is in your head that's the worst case scenario is

463
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: not going to happen. It's just not going to happen

464
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: the way that you think it's going to happen. So

465
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: that's what I say, play out your fears so you

466
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,239
Speaker 1: just kind of like release it from you And the

467
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: second tool that I'll give you is that I call

468
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: it the so what filter, like okay, and you do

469
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: it three times, right, like Okay, I am in this situation,

470
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: so what? And then you go a layer above that

471
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: and say, okay, well if that happens, then this will happen.

472
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: So what. And then you get to the third one.

473
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: There is where you need to concentrate, right, It's that

474
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: third level where you need to concentrate and say, that's

475
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: what matters to me, that's the impact that I need

476
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: to make. So I don't know why I'm worrying about

477
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: this part, right, So you reverse engineer into it. So

478
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: those are kind of like the tools that I can

479
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: give you in that whatever scenario you're facing, you don't

480
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: get paralyzed or stuck or in the same loop of

481
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: people pleasing.

482
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: Right, because I tend to then once I'm in that

483
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: loop of people pleasing, I keep energetically bringing the same

484
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: type of people in and then it's a no win.

485
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: Because look, the woman you are in those rooms, you

486
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: don't have to apologize for existing. Jesus Christ, you know

487
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: this is bringing you into everyday life.

488
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 2: And yes, honestly, half.

489
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: The time, half the time in your scenario, that other

490
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: person will move.

491
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. But then I'll feel bad the rest

492
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 2: of the day, don't you dare. I'll be cooking dinner thinking, oh,

493
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: she met at me. Oh man. I mean, so there

494
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: is the personal side, but I still find myself doing it.

495
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: I mean bullying, Like it's so weird to talk about

496
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: bullying at our age. You're younger than me, but yeah,

497
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: but it exists. Maybe not, you know, we can redefine

498
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 2: the word. Maybe it's not the way we found it

499
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: in high school or you know, growing up, but it

500
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: does live in our lives. And I get really scared

501
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 2: of bullies because I feel like I can read bullies.

502
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: I sometimes with them it's about I do back down

503
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 2: fully because I can't navigate them. I can tell them

504
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: what they need to hear so they understand the situation.

505
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: I end up apologizing to them and really making myself small.

506
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: And I found this in my personal life. I've found

507
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: this in my business life, and it's it's tricky and

508
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: there's always I feel like, going to be people in

509
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: your workplace that you work with that are going to

510
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: be that way, and it's about finding the way to

511
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: navigate it and own it, so I belong there as well.

512
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: And that's a real tough one for me.

513
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think like taking your scenario and kind

514
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: of putting it in the workplace, there's always like the

515
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: toxic worksplace, and you probably of like a bullying manager

516
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: or whatever. And I think the bully dynamic, it looks

517
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: like you can read those bullies, you can kind of

518
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: anticipate them. You can probably even manage them.

519
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: I can manage them, But I think, but it hurts

520
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: my soul, like it's really wears on.

521
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: Because you're still giving them control of the interaction.

522
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: But they need control.

523
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: Who cares what they need?

524
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 2: Because because.

525
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: Because the moment you start adjusting to keep them calm,

526
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: they've already set the rules of the game.

527
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: Right, So what if they've set the rules for decades

528
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: and then you can't unset those rules.

529
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: No, there's never any okay, there's never any rules that

530
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: can't be bent or broken or rewritten. I just don't

531
00:30:51,880 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: believe that our constitution, right, we are still doing amendments

532
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: and we're still passing different laws. Like there's nothing that

533
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 1: is just set in stone, let's be honest, right, And

534
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: so if you think about it that way, dealing with

535
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: like these difficult personalities or bullies or whatever. Your goal

536
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: is not to win them over. Your goal is to

537
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: hold your position right.

538
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: And what that's you can't do those two. See that's

539
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 2: where I fall short.

540
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: But what that looks like is that you are calm,

541
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: you're neutral, and you're direct. So I'll give you an example.

542
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: You say, so if they they're bullying you, you know, victorium,

543
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: we need to do this, or they're bulldozing you. Whatever,

544
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: you say something like, I hear you, here's how I

545
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: see it.

546
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: I'm good at that.

547
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: Good another one. That's one perspective, here's the direction we're taking,

548
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 1: or I'm not aligned with that approach.

549
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: You?

550
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: But did you notice what I did? There? There's no apology,

551
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: there's no over explaining, and there's no shrinking.

552
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 2: See I would say what you said and then i'd

553
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: probably afterwards go sorry, is that okay?

554
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah? Exact?

555
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: Okay? Are you okay? I said that right now?

556
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: Now you just open them up to Hey, there's room

557
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: for us to like challenge her again, there's room for

558
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: us to because what you're doing is you're not making

559
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: up a statement. You're leaving room for them to do more. Right,

560
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: or you're leaving room for them to bully you in

561
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: some other capacity. Right, And so bullies don't respect accommodation, right,

562
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: they respect clarity. And so you're if your fear, your

563
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: fear isn't actually the bully, it's the discomfort of not

564
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: accommodating them.

565
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: Yes, oh my god, you just solved my whole life.

566
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: Now how do I do it?

567
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: I mean you're going to practice. That's how you're going

568
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: to do it. You're going to make these very short

569
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: statements and you are going to, I don't know, press

570
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: your finger into your thigh every single time you want

571
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: to say sorry or something else beyond that what I

572
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: just told you. I hear you. But we're going to

573
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: move in this direction, press your finger into your thigh,

574
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: saying don't you Tory, don't you dare say sorry? You're done? Finished,

575
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: Sit in that awkward silence, let them squirm, and I

576
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: guarantee you're going to feel even more powerful after that.

577
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: Now, what if I hypothetical I'm in a situation where

578
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: it's an ensemble like like nine oh two and zero was,

579
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: or it can be a partnership, you know, and I'm

580
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: not the only quote unquote talent I hate referring to

581
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: myself that way, but the on camera on air whatever

582
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: personality I tend to sometimes get treated less than with

583
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: accommodations than other people who have a stronger voice. How

584
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: do I achieve where it's like, well, fair is fair.

585
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: But you know they say, you know the person that

586
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: doesn't ask for it, The person goes along with everything

587
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: sometimes tends to kind of get pushed aside, and it's

588
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 2: the person that's like, no, I'm doing it this way.

589
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: That way, the strong personality gets more, How can the

590
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: nice one get more?

591
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: Do you ask for it?

592
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: Sometimes?

593
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 3: No?

594
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 2: Sometimes no, because I have to like believe that people

595
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 2: treat people fairly.

596
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: So the important question here is because what you're describing

597
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: again has nothing to do with fairness and everything to

598
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: do with signal in group environment, ensembles, partnerships, teams, whatever.

599
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: People don't get treated based on what's fair. They get

600
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: treated on what signal they will accept. And in all

601
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: of that stuff that you just told me, you needn't

602
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: ask for it.

603
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess so, But I guess how do

604
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: I make my voice? So it seems to me and

605
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 2: this is all I've ever seen, and I'm trying to unhear.

606
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,959
Speaker 2: That part is the person that's not nice gets more

607
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 2: the person that you know.

608
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: Yes, what you're talking about delivery there, right, Because I

609
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: think here's here's the misconsumption is that if you say

610
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: it in a short like no is a complete answer, right,

611
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: no is a complete answer. Yeah, that's it. And so

612
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: what you're what you're struggling with is that you are

613
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: you don't want to sound bitchy or you don't want

614
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: to sound aggressive. You don't want to sound the thing

615
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: is because your delivery is it's all in the delivery

616
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: of how you say it, right. So I'm not asking

617
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: you to take all of your incredibly valuable experience and

618
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: anchor it into something that's very loud and aggressive, right,

619
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: because you're saying to me louder personalities kind of becomes

620
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: sort of the default decision makers. And you don't want

621
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: to do that, you don't want to be difficult. But

622
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 1: what you have to do, Tori, And remember we started

623
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: this conversation about it's the art of communication, right, It's

624
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: the art of polish and delivery and how you deliver

625
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,959
Speaker 1: that information and how you communicate it. So I think

626
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: where the missing link here is you need to become

627
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: very clear. That's not about being difficult, it's about clarity. Right,

628
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: And this is what it sounds like in real life. Right,

629
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 1: you're going to say something like I'm good with what

630
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: I ever works, right, Instead, here's what works best for me.

631
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: That's not bitchy, no nice, or it's not. But but

632
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: you're still in this position of like, I want to

633
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:25,919
Speaker 1: be nice. Yeah, being nice is not the same as

634
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: being professional or clear. It could be, but it doesn't

635
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: have to be. And you keep relating it back to

636
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: the nice cities that you want to inject in everybody. Right,

637
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: So instead of saying sure, I can adjust, maybe say

638
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: something like I can do that. Here's what I would

639
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: need in return.

640
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: It's in my business.

641
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: While you're doing it, you're you're smiling while you're talking

642
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: to me, smiling, right, but like you're having a very

643
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: difficult conversation. This is a you know, yes, you're you know.

644
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: I'm listening intently to you. And I think that these

645
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: are still very difficult conversations to have, right because you're

646
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: being very vulnerable here. But I think that it's okay

647
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: not to preface or gift wrap all of your language

648
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: in this like shiny wrapper because at the end of

649
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: the day, what's important to you the gift or the

650
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: rapper the gift, right, So the gift is making sure

651
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: that your messaging and your communication is clear, not the

652
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: smile or bitchiness that you're putting on the wrapper to

653
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: get it across.

654
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 2: I do find a lot of times that is broken

655
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: down with the communication of text because people can't see

656
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 2: the emotional intent that you're putting forth. It can be misread,

657
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: and so the.

658
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: Text needs to be a call.

659
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: And now all definitely, businesses are changing so much, sometimes

660
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 2: so much of it is on text, and I grew

661
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: up terrified of the phone. I don't know why. Yeah, fine, yeah,

662
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: but I'm now getting back to the place where it's like, gosh,

663
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: if so much is going to be lost in translation

664
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 2: with the written word, I would rather have the spoken

665
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 2: word to clarify what is going on.

666
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. And like I said, sometimes

667
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, a text is just as good as anything

668
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: that you really need to get your point across. I

669
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: think here's what's going to happen. I guarantee if I

670
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: look through your phone, there's a lot of over explaining

671
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: over text as well. You have to be honest instead

672
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: of just like one sentence. I couldn't actually do this exercise.

673
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: When when we get off this cale, go back through

674
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: your phone. If someone asked you for something, how many

675
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: messages did you send instead of just one sentence, like.

676
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 2: If they ask me a favor or ask huh? I

677
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 2: also passive aggressive, so that comes into play too.

678
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: You are yeah, I don't believe you, but okay.

679
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 2: I can't passive aggressive.

680
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: I can't see that?

681
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 2: Is that an old story? But everyone keeps telling me

682
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 2: that my whole life.

683
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: I think you're too busy people pleasing to be passive aggressive.

684
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 2: Well, sometimes when I'm too busy over explaining and people

685
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 2: pleasing them, they stay back to me. Stop being so

686
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 2: passive aggressive with me, my friend does. She says it

687
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 2: all the time to me, and I'm like, my heart, like,

688
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: I get like that because growing up my family was

689
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: very passive aggressive, so I always never want it to

690
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: be that. So like when she says that, when I'm

691
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: like saying, oh, I'm sorry, never mind, I'll do it

692
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 2: or something, She's like stopping cut the passive aggressive, and

693
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I didn't think I was being Well.

694
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: You know why right there, Tori? Because you decided that

695
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: you were going to again say sorry and all that

696
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: they think you're hiding behind your stories of like what

697
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: you really mean, and that's what's translating into passive aggressive right. Oh,

698
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: Passive aggressive communication usually just comes from one thing. You

699
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: have a preference, but you're not stating it directly. Yes, right,

700
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: so it comes out sideways, through over explaining, apologizing, or

701
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: backing off mid sentence and to the other person that

702
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: just doesn't feel nice, it feels unclear, which again going

703
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: back to my point around you know, the more clarity

704
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: and succinctness you have without the apologizing at the end,

705
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: drop the apology at the end, tory, just drop it,

706
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 1: Just drop it from your vocabulary. You said your point,

707
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: You're done, and I guarantee you people will start shifting.

708
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 1: You start shifting your behavior. You watch where other people

709
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: shift their behavior because you've made the shift. You are

710
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: now different. That allows them to be different with you.

711
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: Right.

712
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: You said you grew up around a passive aggressive communication household. Right,

713
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: so you're not trying to be that, but instead of

714
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: going direct, you're going softer, and softer isn't clearer? Yeah,

715
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: so I think in your mind what I'm trying to

716
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: reframe with you. If I am allowed to be your

717
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: executive coach for a minute, please, direct communication is not aggressive.

718
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: It's respectful because now I don't have to second guess

719
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: what the f is Toys telling me? Does she mean it?

720
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: Is she? You know, just saying it just to you know,

721
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: be a passive aggressive leader? Right. Clarity is kindness. Ambiguity

722
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: creates tension. You don't want to be in that business, Toy.

723
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in the business of ambiguity. No,

724
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: So instead of catching yourself saying, oh, sorry, never mind,

725
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: I'll just do it, you just say, actually, here's what

726
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: I prefer, say it with a smile. By the way,

727
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: I guarantee your friend will appreciate it, because now she

728
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: won't go back thinking she passive aggressive? Is that what

729
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: she really meant? Am I right?

730
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 3: Yeah?

731
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: It sounds correct. Just how do you undo fifty two

732
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 2: years of saying sorry?

733
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 3: I get I get the undoing right, But I think

734
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 3: I think that my practical rule for you is say

735
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 3: the thing, say it once, say it cleanly, without apology.

736
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: When you try that on one person, you're going to

737
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: try it on the next, and the next, and the

738
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: next and that'll be your new normal. You rehearse lines

739
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: right right for a living, that's what you did. How

740
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: many times did you have to rehearse those lines?

741
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 2: Not many? Because I have a photographic memory.

742
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: Well freaking excellent. I'm about to send you an email

743
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: about all your little practical tools.

744
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 2: Look to see that.

745
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: But I would say, for for the most time, you

746
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: have fat photographic memory. But there's a rehearsal, and so

747
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: you do it again and.

748
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: Two or three times, right, and you do you know?

749
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: And so with this, the stuff that we're talking about

750
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: is I don't expect you to be perfect every single time, right,

751
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: at least out of the gate. But you're going to

752
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: practice this and you're going to do it again and

753
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: again and again, and then that dialogue is going to

754
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: become your new normal.

755
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: Oh, that new normal would be great. I just wanted

756
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 2: to imprint on my soul, my being.

757
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: Well, you're a you're a good person. And as as

758
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,479
Speaker 1: most people are innately good people, for the most part,

759
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: we have to give the benefit to humanity. Right of

760
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: there's there's good intent, or you have to receive people

761
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 1: with positive intent, which is how you want to be perceived. Yes, well, yes, right,

762
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: So even if you just know that there's positive intent

763
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,479
Speaker 1: and that's how you want to approach it. That's why

764
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: it's really really important to be very clear, right and

765
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: so you're saying it with positive intent, and if you

766
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: know that that's coming from a good place, you don't

767
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: need to be in the prove it game. I don't

768
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: need you to prove it to me that you're a

769
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: good person. I can see that we've had a really

770
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: wonderful conversation. True, But for you, I want you to

771
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: hold your power in that room.

772
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: I know I want to hold my head up, hie,

773
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 2: especially because I'm getting older and the more I hold

774
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 2: it down, it's just getting more wrinkly. Got it, I

775
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: got it? We hold it up, pie right now now on.

776
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: All the creams and all the yeah, I hear you.

777
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: I agree.

778
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 2: But I feel like I have so much that I

779
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: want to do in this world. My dad was such

780
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:05,479
Speaker 2: an amazing, unique human in the sense that he was kind,

781
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 2: like so kind, would talk to anyone and everyone, and

782
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 2: really liked people. And I really like people. I love people,

783
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: and I'm interested in people and their stories. And at

784
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 2: the end of the day, he just wanted to entertain them,

785
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 2: make them smile. That's it, And that's really my big

786
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 2: goal in this world is with so much going on,

787
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 2: we all have such hard lives within our lives that

788
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: no one knows about, you know. I just want people

789
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: to be entertained. I used to say that was by

790
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: giving them TV shows. No one really watches TV anymore,

791
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,959
Speaker 2: but you know, whether it's in the theater, whether it's

792
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: on your television, on your computer, on your phone. I

793
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: want to be able to deliver that. I think I

794
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 2: have a lot to offer. I think my one of

795
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 2: my superpowers is I don't know why I feel so

796
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 2: confident talking to you look at me. I would never

797
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 2: talk this way anyone else. I'd be like, don't let

798
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: them know. I'm smarter worthy. But I think one of

799
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 2: my superpowers is being, like I said, to read people,

800
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,959
Speaker 2: but also being able to change with the times. I'm

801
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 2: able to be a forward thinker of what is to

802
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 2: come next, and I think that's a really special tool.

803
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 2: So I just need to get out of my own

804
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: way and out of the way of the people that

805
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 2: want to keep me down to get to that so

806
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: I can rule the world.

807
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: But can I tell you you doing You're doing it now? Right?

808
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: Like what you just said is actually incredibly clear. You

809
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: just need to own it up here. And if your

810
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: goal is to it, I would say, actually, your goal

811
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 1: isn't just to entertain people, it's to move people, right.

812
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: Entertainment is the vehicle. Yes, connection is the outcome. And

813
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: what you described on reading people and adapting and seeing

814
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: what's coming next, that's not just intuition, that's taste, it's timing.

815
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: It's emotional intelligence. And I think what great creators and

816
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: producers and executives, that's what they're built on. And so

817
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: for you, it's not a capability gap. You have a

818
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: permission gap. And I don't know who's permission you're waiting for,

819
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: but if it's everybody else's, the answer.

820
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: Is yes, whose permission am I waiting for? I don't know,

821
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: is it my own?

822
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 1: Probably you're doing all of this stuff right like if

823
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: you're waiting for few, if you're waiting to feel like

824
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: this is the version of you everywhere you already have it.

825
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: You are accessing it selectively, But you said it yourself.

826
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: You can just sit in room, speak clearly, lead the conversations,

827
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: own your ideas. This podcast, like this is the modality

828
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: in which you are putting all of this into the world.

829
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: And so I feel like, you know, listening to you,

830
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: I've connected those dots. It's not about being more confidence.

831
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: It's about stopping that on off switch right of like

832
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 1: my people pleasing am I not your ceiling isn't your talent.

833
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: It's where you stop letting your self show up fully.

834
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: And I think in this modality, like I said, if

835
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: I were coaching you, I'd focus on one thing. Same

836
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: voice in the room, as on the street, as on

837
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: this podcast.

838
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: That's it so okay to still giggle?

839
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, it is. I Like I said, we

840
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: started this conversation with you know, the humor in the boardroom.

841
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: Humor goes a long way, and you know, people want

842
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: to be with nice people. People want to talk to

843
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: like fun people, right, like being comfortable. You're comfortable with me.

844
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: I'm listening intently. And trust is a superpower. Right, We

845
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 1: had a very honest, vulnerable conversation. That's part of your superpower.

846
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 2: Thank you. Where can my listeners find you? Oh, what's

847
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,919
Speaker 2: your address? I'll be over in the next hour.

848
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 1: Well, I'm the elite recruiter on Instagram and TikTok and

849
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: all of their and yeah, depolybias dot com. But yeah,

850
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: we're helping all kinds of people just kind of get

851
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 1: out of their own way and get unstuck and move forward.

852
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 2: And do you believe it's never too late to get

853
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: unstuck and move forward? Oh?

854
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: Never?

855
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 2: Ever, What is the oldest client you ever had come

856
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:47,760
Speaker 2: to you and say I want to change?

857
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 1: Gosh, I've coached people well into their seventies.

858
00:50:53,320 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 2: Wow, very cool. Yeah, I love that I'm going to

859
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 2: change in my fifties, so you won't have to coach

860
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 2: me in my seventies.

861
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: How's that? But look, I'm glad to be your personal cheerleader.

862
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: I think you already have what it takes. You just

863
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: needed that that extra nudge and clarity on And you

864
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: don't need my permission, just permission yourself right to know

865
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: that no is a full sentence.

866
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 2: I love that My thing that I tell people is

867
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 2: no is the first word towards yes. Because in entertainment

868
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 2: a lot you get the word no, no, no, And

869
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 2: I always say, just get me in the room, get

870
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 2: me in the room, al convince someone sees very good

871
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: at that.

872
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: And that's true for that scenario. If you if you've

873
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: read the book by Chris Voss. Never split the difference,

874
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: right like never never take no as your first answer, right,

875
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 1: There's always a negotiation. There's an avenue for that when

876
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: you know you want to do something with intent, right like,

877
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: don't take the first no. But I think when people

878
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: are asking something of you that you know you can't

879
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: deliver on, then know is a complete sentence.

880
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 2: Oh, and not no ish or not no.

881
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: Correct, not no sorry, But.

882
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: I know I have to be okay saying no, and

883
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: I'm still a nice person.

884
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: You are a nice person. That's a fact.

885
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 2: Can I say I'm going to tell you right now

886
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 2: with absolution it's a nice note. Can I say that?

887
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: Yes, you can.

888
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: That's not clear though, but.

889
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: Then full stop, or say I'm saying no but nicely.

890
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Right. If you feel like you have.

891
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: To justify a rapper, if you have to put a

892
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: little rapper on it, then say it out loud. It's okay,

893
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm saying no, but it's a nice no. Thank you.

894
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 2: I'm saying thank you. Helps I'm saying no, but it's

895
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 2: a nice no. I'm saying no nicely.

896
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: That's the new Tory way. That's that's what you're going

897
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: to do. If that's what makes you feel comfortable saying no,

898
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: do it that way. Everyone has a style that's going

899
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:18,760
Speaker 1: to be your style.

900
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: Watch out world. Saying no when she's sticking to it