1 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome saber protection of I Heart radio and 2 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: stuff Media. I'm Any Ray and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: today we're talking about stouts and porters. Yes, come with 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: us to the dogs so beer. Yeah. Yeah, we were 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: like goodbye trying January. Intersouts and porners um as always 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: drink responsibly. Yes, absolutely, and shout out to the porter 7 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,319 Speaker 1: in Atlanta's one of my favorite places. Oh yeah, it's 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: a lovely, lovely restaurant and bar. Yes. And they have 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: a lot of stouts and porters. Oh gosh, they have 10 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: a lot of everything they do. That is true. I've 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: actually been really hesitant with stouts and porters for a 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: long time. Every time I get one, it's almost always 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: a really pleasant surprise. I Yeah, I forget how much 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: I like them sometimes because I feel like they're going 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: to be heavy. Them can be, but a lot of 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: them are just really like, like just crisp and refreshing. Yeah, 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: in a bitter way, And I'm like, gyirl, they are surprising. 18 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: I find a lot of them, at least in my case. 19 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about this a little more 20 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: because I know it's a pet peeve A lot of 21 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: people who make these beers. I find them surprisingly light. 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: I I too, am like I'm going to be drinking bread. 23 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: And it's not no, not, not all the time, not 24 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the time. I did get Um. I 25 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: toured Guinnis a few years ago when I was in 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: Ireland and it was seven floors, very impressive. UM, and 27 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: I got my perfect poor certificate. Oh dang, yes. If 28 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: you don't know what this is, it is a whole thing. 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: As they say. UM. Say you're a bartender and you're 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: going to pour some Guinness undraft. You grab a glass, 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: you tilted under the spout at a forty five degree angle, 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: pour until it's about full. Then you pause for a 33 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: few seconds, let that settle, then you top it off, 34 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: adding a creamy layer on the top. According to Imbibe magazine, 35 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: every second of every day, somewhere around the world, a 36 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: bartender pours againness in this method. Guinness sometimes sends out 37 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: ambassadors to teach bartenders how to do this. Yeah, and 38 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: and there is I think a time in which the 39 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: perfect point is poured. It's like twenty nine points something seconds, 40 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: Like there's a point, like there's a decimal point there is. 41 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,399 Speaker 1: I was really nervous when I did, it was like shaken, 42 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: as if my whole reputations at steak or something, they'll 43 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 1: never let me drink again. Is again like Ireland was 44 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: going to call America be like Eddie is fired when 45 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: you're out of here, never let her in a bar again. 46 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: That did not happen. It was. It was a delight actually, 47 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: And there is a myth. I I never heard this, 48 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: but there's a myth that stout supporters are made up 49 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: of the much stronger sludge left at the bottom of 50 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: the barrel wind brewing other beer types. No, not true, 51 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: definitely not true. That's not that's not how brewing works. No, 52 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: what we'll get into in a second. Oh my gosh, 53 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: we will. We will. We have to on a couple 54 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: of episodes on beer. If this is something you really into, 55 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: you We've done sour beers, craft beer of Asheville and 56 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: i Pas so see those if you care to. And 57 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: in the meanwhile, this brings us to our question stouts 58 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: and borders. What are they? Well? Uh? Stouts and porters 59 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: are a related family of beers that feature dark coloration 60 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: and roasty, rich flavors created by roasting the grains used 61 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: to make them until they're a rich chocolate brown or 62 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: even darker. Okay, quick beer overview, quick is a loose term, 63 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: a relative it is. Beer is an alcoholic beverage made 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: from malted grain, usually water, and yeast. You boil the 65 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: malt in water to release its sugars, then add yeast, 66 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: which eats those sugars and poops carbon dioxide, alcohol and 67 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: flavor yeased pool. Oh man, it's been a while since 68 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: I've gotten to do that. Cool um. Yeah. You can 69 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: also add other stuff to flavor beer, like hops um 70 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: to balance the sweet flavors from the malt and the yeast. 71 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: And most beers these days do contain some amount of 72 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: hops stouts and porters included. But today we're kind of 73 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: focusing on the grains and on the malting process. And okay, 74 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: malted just means germinated and dried, meaning that you you 75 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: take a grain and create an environment where it will 76 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: start to germinate. I mean, you know, like grains are seeds, right, 77 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: They contain proteins that code for growing a plant, plus 78 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: starches to feed that hypothetical growth, all wrapped up in 79 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: a sturdy, portable package. So, given moisture and a pleasant 80 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: enough temperature, a seed of grain will start to grow 81 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: a plant, one of the very first steps of which 82 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: is breaking down those starches into sugars for easy processing. 83 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: So when you malt grains, you're using that natural process 84 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: to do some work for you, creating those sugars that 85 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: you want your yeasts to eat so that they'll create alcohol. Nice. However, 86 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: because you don't want a whole plant um, you stop 87 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: the germination process by drying out the grains in a 88 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: process called kiln ng um and killing is a whole 89 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: complex art slush science, but very basically um. You can 90 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: you can dry the grains out quick so that they 91 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: remain pale and clean tasting, or you can do it 92 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: slow and hotter so that the proteins and sugars in 93 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: the grains undergo a couple reactions, caramelization and the mayyard reaction, 94 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: and these are at work. When you see here a 95 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: steak or toast bread like like in caramelization, sugar is 96 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: decomposed in the presence of elevated temperatures, creating all kinds 97 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: of like toasty fun flavor compounds, think like toffee or butter, 98 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: or jam stone, fruits, cotton candy. In the mayard reaction. 99 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: Amino Acids react with sugars, usually at elevated temperatures to 100 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: create all kinds of roasty, fun flavor compounds, think like 101 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: toast or citrus or currants or cho glitter coffee yeah um. 102 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: To control which reactions happen and how much and producing 103 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: what flavors. A maltster which is a name of a 104 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: profession that you can have malts love it um. They 105 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: may toast or roast the grains before drying them um. 106 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: And that's where you get the flavors and colors of 107 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: stouts and porters by by starting with manipulating your malt 108 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: or sometimes you're unmalted grain. But the resulting malts are 109 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: are roughly categorized by color pale amber, brown, chocolate, black, um. 110 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: And this is also where smoky flavors can come in 111 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: by using wood fires or wood smoke in the toasting, 112 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: roasting kilning process m hm so um. These malts can 113 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: have very powerful flavors, so usually only a small portion 114 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: of the malt that goes into a stouter porter may 115 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: have been toasted or roasted um. Even for like a 116 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: very dark beer like a Russian Imperial stout, recipes usually 117 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: only call for about of the malt to be brown 118 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: or black, the other seventy will be pale. Shout out 119 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,679 Speaker 1: to Martha Harpson writing for Popular Science for her excellent 120 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: breakdown of all of these um breakdowns. Also just out 121 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: of saying, y'all, um, this episode was supposed to come 122 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: out last week and the reason that you didn't get 123 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: it last week was that I was running up against 124 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: the deadline and trying to understand the history of malt 125 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: and ran across this article in Brew your Own magazine. 126 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: It was written by one Christian England and the lead 127 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: of the article was, if there ever was a malt 128 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: equivalent of the crazy uncle that lives under the stairs, 129 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: black malt also called black patent malt would be it. 130 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: And I just stop, Like my brain just stopped, and 131 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: I was like, I've got any more time. I'm gonna 132 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: need more time on this one. Yeah. It's a very 133 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: we were very aspirational in in in this episode combined 134 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: them both um and uh, you know here we are. 135 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: I I remember this guy. I was at local establishment 136 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: woods and this guy I was looking at the milkshakes 137 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: and they have malted milkshakes there. Oh yeah, yeah, and 138 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: he I didn't know what it was, and I swear 139 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: for an hour he explained to me why were superior? 140 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: So I understand there's a lot going on, a whole 141 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: lot going on. I do agree malted milkshakes are way better. 142 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: If you're listening Kyle with the motorcycle. I still remember 143 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: very clearly this whole thing that's this has clearly made 144 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: an impact. It did because I remember thinking it was 145 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: one of those moments where you're like, is this really happening? 146 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: Why is sleep and dreaming? Nope, nope, nope, that's what's 147 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: up right. Okay, back to the beer, so yes, anyway, Um, 148 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: the result of all of this will be a beer 149 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: that's dark brown to black in color, with a roasty 150 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: and toasty flavors ranging from dry to sweet and flavor 151 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: um from from very low alcohol to very high alcohol content. Um, 152 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: but usually with low hop content and uh thus less 153 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: bitterness than a lot of other beers. Are like a 154 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: different variety of bitterness from burnt flavors instead of like 155 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:26,599 Speaker 1: like grapefruit juice, Like you kind of get pine or 156 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: grape fruit from from something like an I p A 157 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: that has a lot of hops. This is more like 158 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: a coffee. Yeah, yeah, and here I need to we 159 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: need to talk about nitrogen. Okay, um because because some 160 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: stouts and porters like Guinness Um employ nitrogen to give 161 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: the beer a creamier mouth feel and in that thick 162 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: foamy head. Um Because okay, most beers contain carbon dioxide 163 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: to give them fizz. It's also a natural result of fermentation. 164 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: But you can also add nitrogen, which creates time and 165 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: a little bubbles as opposed to carbon dioxides like big 166 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: snappy bubbles. UM. Nitrogen is also less soluble than carbon dioxide, 167 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: so instead of a continuing phizz that you get with 168 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: CEO two, you get this rush of of nitrogen escape. 169 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: And this is why also thanks to some complex fluid dynamics, 170 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: the bubbles in a pint of Guinness Um or other 171 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: nitro beer what will settle down the sides of a 172 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: glass and then rise up from the center to form 173 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: that foamy head over the course of a few seconds. Um. Also, 174 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: since the gas in the beer will be a blend 175 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: of c O two and nitrogen, heavy on the nitrogen, 176 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: maybe you wind up with with a relatively still glass 177 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: of beer once the bubbles have settled into that foam. 178 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: To maximize that effect, you need to help the nitrogen nucleate, 179 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: which is why nitrogenized beers are poured from special tap 180 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: faucets that's slow and agitate the poor. And it's why 181 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: canned and bottled nitri beers contain a widget or some 182 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: other specialized what that is designed and seeds the nitrogen bubbles. Yeah, 183 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: and we will have to talk more about that some 184 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: other time. It's really cool, weird fluid dynamics and uh 185 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: and seating of the bubble nucleation, so it's wild. Yeah. 186 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, I had one of those 187 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: canned Guinness drafts, yeah, and it had I was like, 188 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: something's in here, yeah, yeah, And I was like all right, 189 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: mr so yeah yeah yeah. Very basically, what's happening with 190 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: the widget is that um uh, it's attached to the 191 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: to the pulley tab of the can and uh and 192 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: it releases this burst of nitrogen into the beer when 193 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: you open the can, um, which seeds nucleation of the bubbles. 194 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: Very cool. Very basically. I'm probably screwing that up a 195 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: little bit in the telling, but in that general ballpark, 196 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: got it. Huh. There are a lot of varieties of 197 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: porters and stouts, UM with different things added during the 198 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: brewing process to play with the resulting flavors. Oatmeal stouts 199 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: are brewed with oats in addition to barley, as you 200 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: might imagine. UM Milk stouts include lactose, which are milk 201 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: sugars to add sweetness in a kind of creaminess. Yeah, 202 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: didn't we discuss how we both thought that they like 203 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: we had never put together. That's that's why, yep, yep, 204 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: I had no idea to like a few weeks ago. Yeah, 205 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: me too. I thought it's just because they were kind 206 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: of because they're creamy. I'm like other creamy for a 207 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: reason exactly. UM Oyster stouts include whole oyster shells during 208 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: brewing to get some of those minerals in there. You 209 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: can add coffee or peanuts, rup, cinnamon or whatever you like. 210 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: You can age your stouter porter in bourbon barrels to 211 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: add those flavors to the mix. UM Imperial stouts and 212 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: Baltic porters are styles with stronger flavors and higher alcohol content. 213 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,719 Speaker 1: There's a whole world out there. Oh my heck. There 214 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: is so important question sub question question too. What's the 215 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: difference between a stout and a porter? Struggle that's essentially 216 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: the difference. Loves it up yeah these days? Yeah, like 217 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: not much. Um. The two terms are used pretty interchangeably 218 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: by different brewers within this family of beers. UM official 219 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: designations tend to include the word creamy in stouts description 220 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: and not in porters description. Some modern brewers defined stouts 221 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: as containing unmolted roasted barley in addition to, or instead 222 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: of the usual malted roasted barley that porters use. But 223 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: even that is an industry wide yeah, and people are 224 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: very passionate and opinionated about it. They certainly are. If 225 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: you would like to read about this argument on the Internet, 226 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: google it, and so many humans will give you their opinion, 227 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: pages and pages and pages of it. Huh. There's a 228 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: popular story that the name porter came from the fact 229 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: that porters of London loved this beer type so much 230 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: way back when it first got started, or that it 231 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: somehow derived from entire butt Okay, all right, that that 232 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: is from the type of cask that may have been 233 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: used to mature porters in the early seventeen hundreds. The 234 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: story goes that dark beers were then made by combining 235 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: multiple beers made during like successive mashings. Over the course 236 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: of an entire brewing run and matured in these casks 237 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: that were known as butts. So the beer may have 238 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: been called entire butt beer before it took on the 239 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: name porter. Um. I'm not sure whether this is apocryphal 240 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: or not, though partially because it's just I'm I know, 241 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: I'm like twelve, but like entire butt beer is so funny. Yes, 242 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to imagine where porter would come from 243 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: from that? Yeah, I don't. I don't think so. Maybe 244 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: the accent was very for back then. We don't know 245 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: that's true, I wasn't there. One thing giving credence to 246 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: this theory that porters are named for porters is in 247 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: a letter written by a man living in London. Quote. 248 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: Another kind of beer is called porter, meaning carrier. Because 249 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: the greater quantity of this beer is consumed by the 250 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: working classes. It is a thick and strong beverage, and 251 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: the effect it produces if drunken excess is the same 252 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: as that of wine. This porter costs threepence a pot. 253 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: That letter is the first known instance of the word 254 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: porter in print. It is indeed as for stout. That 255 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: might be because high gravity porters were frequently called stout 256 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: porters in the late seventeen and early eighteen hundreds, and 257 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: from their stout became a descriptor for a good dark 258 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: beer and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah that stout meaning 259 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: like strong. Um. The antonym was sometimes a slender beer 260 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: or small beer to mean low alcohol beer. Um and yeah. 261 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: At the time, the only difference in recipes for stouts 262 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: versus porters was often the amount of water involved, like 263 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: less was used for stouts, so they would be stronger. Um. 264 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: But these days porters can be stronger than stouts. Reverse history, 265 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: mystery present mystery exactly doesn't rhyme not as fun okay 266 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: cool cool. Another theory suggests that Porter derived from a 267 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: beer that came to Britain from the Netherlands called Porter, 268 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: which dates back to century and yeah. Both of these 269 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: were considered beers for the working classes, like porter also 270 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: means a person who hauls or delivers things. Yeah um, 271 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: And these are also dark beers with roasty flavors, though 272 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: I get the idea that they tend to be on 273 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: the sweeter side of the porter spectrum like to this day, 274 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: Okay cool still exists. Oh yeah, that's always a pleasant 275 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: okay test that out out. What about nutrition? Drink responsibly. Um. Generally, 276 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: the lower the acohol content of a beer, the fewer 277 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: calories it will contain, meaning that Guinness at four point 278 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: one percent alcohol by volume, is actually one of the 279 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: lightest beers you can drink outside of things that are 280 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: like brewed specifically to be low calorie UM, like Corona 281 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: is four point six but is five. So this blew 282 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: my mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, that's a 283 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: that's certainly a factor. But certainly those roasty flavors can 284 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: also like really mask the taste of higher volumes of alcohol. 285 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: So some porters and stouts are exactly as heavy as 286 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: they look. Drink responsibly, but again, water is always good. 287 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yeah, I just have some watter. Yes, yes, 288 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: we do have a little bit some numbers for you 289 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: a couple. Yeah. As of porters occupied a small percentage 290 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: of the American beer market share just zero point three 291 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: percent UM, but they were on the rise. Sales had 292 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: increased UM by zero point seven percent over the course 293 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: of the year. Stouts also had a good year. They 294 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: grew to one point one percent of the overall market 295 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: and sales rose by four Yes, um, they are definitely. 296 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: I feel like they're on the As we're in this 297 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: craft beer renaissance here in the US and in other places, 298 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: you're kind of on the tail end of that, Like 299 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: education is still happening with lighter beers, and as we're 300 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: going to talk about South importers pretty much disappeared for 301 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: for a minute, for a long time. Yeah, and and yeah, 302 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: like we've we've gone through the I P. A craze 303 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: and the sour craze. So I'm wondering maybe maybe STU 304 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: supporters are next. It sounds like they might be. It 305 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: sounds like they might be. Oh, but before we get 306 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: to that, we have a lot of history for you. Um, 307 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: and first we've got a quick break forward for a sponsor, 308 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you spots, Yes, thank you. Okay, 309 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: here we go. Uh huh. This is a big history section, 310 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: and it took a little bit of untangling because as 311 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: with anything that people like talking about so much, and 312 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: also as with anything from which like a lot of 313 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: the early history was not recorded because no one thought 314 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: it was important. Right, Um, there's a lot of weird 315 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: apocryphal stories out there, yes, which are delight Yes, And 316 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: we will get to a number of we, well, we will, 317 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: and we'll try to make clear which ones are and 318 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: which ones are not, or at least from the best 319 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: that we could understand. Yes, yes, so all right. Porters 320 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: go back to London circu the eighteenth century, the first 321 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: industrially produced beer, in part because brewers began taking aging 322 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: and metration into their own hands. The use of thermometers 323 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: in the seventeen sixties also helped. Before that, beer was 324 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: mostly brewed in homes, or it was brewed with the 325 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: intent it would age on the journey to wherever it 326 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: was going. One popular story goes porters were invented out 327 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: of a practice wherein London bartenders commonly blended three beers 328 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: for customers, a mix of cheaper and more expensive beers 329 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: with different characteristics. In the seventeen twenties and thirties, beer 330 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: named Ralph Harwood decided he wanted to brew a beer 331 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: with that mix of characteristics, but that could be dispensed 332 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: from one cask. Londoners loved it and it became the 333 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: new it thing. However, there aren't really records to back 334 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: this off repeated story. It's called the three threads theory. 335 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: If you do any research of your own After this, 336 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: you will see that in a lot of places three 337 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: threads theory. Yeah, yeah, probably apocryphal. Probably porters were definitely 338 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: being enjoyed by seventeen thirty, when the grub Street Journal 339 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: wrote highly of a quote sound generous porter without further explanation. 340 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: That's it, and early American homebrewers once America a game 341 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: of thing, really dug porters, including folks like George Washington 342 00:20:54,520 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: and Thomas Jefferson. As usual, Russian orders and staffs emerged 343 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: around the same time that the British variety did imported 344 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: from England. Russian beer houses were even frequently called porter houses. 345 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: It was viewed as a fancy beer on the same 346 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: level as wine. However, what porter exactly entailed at this 347 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: time is a bit murky, because to make a porter 348 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: in our current understanding of them, you need that black malts, 349 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: something that didn't exist until innovations and malt roasting technologies 350 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventeen and the Black patent Malt. Yeah, the 351 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: the story of the porter's development is a story of malt, 352 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: which is also a story of heating technology. Um, for 353 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 1: most of beer's history, you had malt ranging from pale 354 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: to amber to brown before black malts were invented. Dark beers, 355 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: like porters, employed brown malts heated to a to a 356 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: good toasty color with a wood or charcoal fire, which 357 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: imparted a smokiness. To let that smoky flavor mellow out 358 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: involved a month long aging process and it in casts 359 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 1: or vats, allowing for the propagation of wild yeast. Meaning 360 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: these original porters were quite different than the porters of 361 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: today and probably way more filling. Porters were viewed as 362 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: a working person's drink and even seen as nutritious. Yeah, 363 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: mostly sweet styles were made at the time. Um brewed 364 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: to have a lower alcohol content and more residual sugar, 365 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: so they were higher in calories and would give you 366 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: a little little boost energy. Um. Part of the reason 367 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: they're probably is that brown malts would have added this 368 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: stringency to the beer that not all drinkers really favor. 369 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: And I said brown malts, but um, but most brewers 370 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: were probably using a blend of brown and amber malts 371 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: because that extra cooking process made brown malt more expensive 372 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: than paler malts at the time. Yes, but that was 373 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: going to change starting around the early seventeen hundreds. M 374 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: maltsters gosh, I love that word. Monsters started working with 375 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: a new fuel called coke. Uh. Folks working with coal 376 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: had drived it back in the sixteen hundreds, and it 377 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: burned hotter and cleaner than anything anyone had ever used before. 378 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: It drove industrial development um from ironed steel to glass, 379 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: and also made its way into brewing. Using this malt 380 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: could be finished without so much smoke. Um. It was 381 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: paler and tasted cleaner than malts roasted with wood or whatever. 382 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: The resulting pale malts and pale ales that they produced 383 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: were more expensive, but very posh um and let the 384 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: flavor of any hops you added shine through more clearly, 385 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: as we discussed in our I p a episode Um, 386 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: and this is part of how porters came to be 387 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: considered working class beers versus those posh pale ales developing 388 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: around the same time. Oh, speaking of those vats that 389 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: they would age porters in though, Oh yes, here's a 390 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: story Brewer Richard muh Um. I believe it's constructed the 391 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: largest vat in existence, and it became something of a 392 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: celebrity vat. People were writing about it. It could hold 393 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: up to twenty thousand barrels, but tragedy struck in October 394 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: fourteen when it corroded hoop Burst, releasing seven thousand, six 395 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: hundred barrels of porter, flooding the basement, destroying the brewery walls, 396 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: and surging into nearby houses. Eight people were killed due 397 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: to quote drowning, injury, poisoning by porter, or drunkenness. Yeah, yeah, gosh, 398 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: I mean I forget sometimes how dangerous brewing can be 399 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: even today. Oh. Absolutely, it's a it's a chemistry experiment 400 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: all the way. It is, well adding in something else 401 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: extremely childish, because that's the theme of this episode. I 402 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: just want to mention and this article. I found a 403 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: brewer named Richard rams Bottom rams Bottom ms Bottom. That 404 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: is a spectacular name. It is, and I'm glad that 405 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: it exists. I am to okay, if we step back 406 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: to and pivot to sta out. Samuel Johnson referred to 407 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: stout as a slang word for strong beer in the 408 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: Dictionary of the English Language. It wasn't uncommon for beer 409 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: inventories to list both pale stouts and brown stouts at 410 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: the time, but since porters were the thing back then, 411 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: brewers started expanding their portfolio by offering higher gravity stout porters, 412 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: and so the story goes. The porter part was eventually 413 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: dropped so that they were just called stouts. The recipes 414 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: for porters and stuffs were virtually the same again, other 415 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: than the stouts calling for less water. In three the 416 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: Times of London reported on a case over stolen contents 417 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: from a cask of quote porter of superior quality called 418 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: brown stout, called in court remarkably fine old porter and 419 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: very strong and excellent brown stout. So both terms same beer, 420 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: yes cool, always making it easy for us. In eighteen tens, 421 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: a General Dictionary of Commerce, Trade and Manufacturers quote porter 422 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: maybe divided into two classes, namely brown stout and porter. 423 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: Properly so called brown stout is only a fuller bodied 424 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: kind of porter than that which serves for ordinary drinking. 425 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: A great deal of this is exported to America and 426 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: the West Indies. So there you go, Yeah, there you go. 427 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: Oh I'm seventeen fifty nine a man named Arthur Guinness, 428 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: and yes that one least a brewery at St James 429 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: Gate in Dublin, Ireland for nine thousand years. I had 430 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: never heard this before and I love it. Yes, this 431 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: is a big part of their tour. The location was strategic, 432 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: with accessible fresh water and the country's barley growing areas 433 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: all pretty close. Since porters and stouts were the popular 434 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: styles at the time, that's what Guinness went with. Decade later, 435 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: in seventeen sixty nine, Guinness's stouts were being exported to England, 436 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: and by se Guinness decided to focus solely on porters 437 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: and stouts. Originally their product went by the name Extra 438 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: Stout Porter, but in eighteen twenty they dropped the porter 439 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: Extra Stout Extra Stout. According to their website, after the 440 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: death of Prince Albert in eighteen sixty one, a bartender 441 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: and London decided that champagne was too bright to drink 442 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: for the occasion, so he added some Guinness. Thus the 443 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: Black Velvet was born. We could have done a whole 444 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: episode on Guinness. They oh, certainly that can still happen. 445 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: At some point, I was trying to remember what episode 446 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: we talked about where they they had they had somebody 447 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: invent refrigeration. They were like, we need this thing for 448 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: go invent it, and I too, ran out of time, 449 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: but maybe one day we'll return. When Edward Cecil took 450 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: over in eight he doubled the size of the bird 451 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: to the point it was nicknamed a city within a city, 452 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: complete with its own medical department, fire brigade, and railway. 453 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: And they established their first research lab in nineteen o one. Huh. 454 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: But meanwhile, we need to talk about an innovation that 455 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: Guinness made great use of black malt. I'm ready. So 456 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: there was this guy, Daniel Wheeler, British engineer, and in 457 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: the eighteen tens he was inspired by the way coffees 458 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: were roasted in revolving metal drums. This kept smoke out 459 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: of the product and let you dry it more evenly 460 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: into a more precise finish. He applied for a patent 461 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: for his improved method of drying and preparing malt in 462 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: eighteen seventeen. And um, this is what allowed the creation 463 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: of lots of different styles of beer, cleaner, pale ales, 464 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: roast your porters, all kinds of things in between. Um. 465 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: Because before this, um, if you cooked malt too hard, 466 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: it would go past brown to charcoal and just catch 467 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: on fire in your kiln. Bad. Yeah, But with this 468 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: new process, you could cook malt or straight barley or 469 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: whatever all the way to black without setting anything unintentional 470 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: me on fire. That's good. Yes, I like intentional fires 471 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: be there. Valentine's Day is coming up. I'm pretty sure 472 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: that the term patent malt arose for black malt because 473 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: there was a patent on the process. Yeah, um, but yeah. 474 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: This dropped the price of pale malts and allowed brewers 475 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: a lot of leeway and precision in creating darker beers. 476 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: Guinness was an early adopter um by they had entirely 477 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: replaced brown malt with black malt in their recipe smart, 478 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: which brings us to another innovation. In the seventeen nineties, 479 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: and English chemist by the name of William Nicholson developed 480 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: a practical and affordable hydrometer um, which is a device 481 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: that measures the density of a fluid, which is useful 482 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: in brewing because the density of beer is directly related 483 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: to its sugar and alcohol content um So, using hydrometers 484 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: in the early eighteen hundreds, brewers realized that paler malts 485 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: gave off more sugars than darker breasted maltsum, meaning that 486 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: the yeasts have more food, meaning that you can make 487 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: a stronger beer using less malt. Um So. Coupled with 488 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: Wheelers new killing method, this innovation meant that brewers were 489 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: coming up with all kinds of new recipes. Right, some 490 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century brewers in Ireland use up to nine 491 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: pale malt in their stouts and porters. Complicating all of this, 492 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: as with a lot of alcohols we've discussed in the past, 493 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: some less than reputable brewers added all kinds of additives, 494 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: especially for color, but also some pretty dangerous things. Yeah. 495 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: I mean some of these things were nicer than others, 496 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: like things involving like boiling down leftover wart which is 497 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: unfermented beer soup, or caramelizing sugar or roasting unused malt holes. Um, 498 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: but yeah, they were also brewers using less wholesome things, 499 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: and so there was this general public push against any 500 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: any traations period Right. During the later half of the 501 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, records show that the recipes for stouts and 502 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: porters in London began to diverge, with doubts getting less 503 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: patent malt as compared to porters. There's a popular myth 504 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: that Ireland embraced the stout and unmalted barley to evade 505 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: a British tax on malted barley. However, unmalted barley was 506 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: illegal in both Ireland and Britain until eighteen eighty. Guinness 507 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: today does use unmalted barley in their recipe. During the 508 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: Great Famine from eight to eighteen forty nine, many Irish 509 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: immigrants arrived to the United States, and they brought their 510 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: beer preferences with them. Some historians believe that this is 511 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: how stouts got associated with the Irish in America and 512 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: in particular Guinness. Britain's freemash Ton Act of eighteen eighty 513 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: permitted the use of roasted barley, although folks weren't super 514 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: inti it at first. It also required brewers to purchase 515 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: a brewing license and shifted taxation from malt to original gravity, 516 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: which is a way of Yeah, this is another rabbit hole, 517 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: which is a way of predicting the alcohol content of 518 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: the final product based on the fermentable and unfermentable substances 519 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: in the word before fermentation. Yea great Also of note. 520 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: By this point, the oatmeal stout was common, but soon 521 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: milk stout passed it in popularity and almost led to 522 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: the oatmeal stouts extinction. Yeah. Um, milk stouts are sweeter 523 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: and at the time they contained milk added during fermentation, 524 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: and we're marketed as being like healthy or um or 525 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: restorative um. They are also considered easier on the palate 526 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: because they're less better than dryer stouts. Okay h. A 527 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century high sugar, low alcohol sweet stout called 528 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: Invalid stout was marketed as essentially a health drink. Some 529 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: breweries marketed their porters even to nursing mothers and the ill. Yeah. 530 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: Breweries often permitted stouts like heavy and healthy and nutritious 531 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: through World War Two, famously the Guinness is Good for 532 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: You campaign in the uniteteen twenties. Yes. Yes, the midt 533 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: to late nineteenth and early twentieth century was around the 534 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: time the porter encountered some serious hardship. Once the most 535 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,719 Speaker 1: popular beer in the UK. In the US, dark beers 536 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: took a huge hit when Pilsner came along in two, 537 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: and pale all a little bit before that to a 538 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: lesser extent um. Yeah, all that. All that work in 539 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: controlling the malting process allowed for pale beers with different 540 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: flavor profiles to develop, and simultaneously, more work was being 541 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: done to understand yeasts. Um. A lot of beers throughout 542 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: history wound up with a sour barney weird flavors from 543 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: wild yeasts and bacteria that got into them, but no 544 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: one knew that microbes are what causes those flavors into 545 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: like the middle of the eighteen hundreds, even though brewers 546 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: had like figured out ways to help control for them, 547 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: certainly by the seventeen hundreds. But uh yeah, Louis Pastor 548 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: figured out that it wasn't some weird chemical process but 549 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: rather a biological process. Around eighteen fifty six, um, he 550 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: discovered the yeast is a living organism and that different 551 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: yeasts produce different flavors. Um. He was commissioned by folks 552 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: in the wine industry to figure out why their booze 553 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: was going sour. We might not have pasteurization if not 554 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: for booze, what do you know? So yeah, so he 555 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: developed pasteurization, which is the process of heating stuff for 556 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: the right amount of time and at the right temperature 557 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: so that you kill off any of microbes without like 558 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: ruining the stuff, right. But it wasn't until the experiments 559 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: in Carlsberg's laboratories in the eighteen eighties that anyone isolated 560 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: and cultivated pure yeast strains that would produce alcohol with 561 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: like really reliable flavors. So between these two innovations, the 562 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 1: beer world exploded with all of these super light, super 563 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: clean tasting beers. Yes, not so great news or stouts 564 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: importers another thing, not so great news so ambitious. Yeah, 565 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: that thing ninety America and those taxes aforementioned taxes on 566 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: British taxes around original gravity didn't help either, although World 567 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: War One and malt restrictions lightened up the porter closer 568 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: to what we're more used to today. Um, yeah, that's 569 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: because the the UK government limited the alcohol content of 570 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: English beers during wartime because they were trying to conserve 571 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: grain stores so less grain, less alcohol content. However, they 572 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: were not so prohibitive in Ireland, perhaps to avoid angering 573 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: the Irish, meaning Ireland could keep churning out porters and 574 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: stouts while the British really couldn't. Post war, when the 575 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: restrictions were dropped, many British brewers decided to turn their 576 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: focus elsewhere, ditching porters and stouts except for the popular, 577 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: the still popular sweeter milk stout variety. But that meant 578 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: there was this beer vacuum and Ireland happily stepped in 579 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: to fill it. Meanwhile, that other famous thing, the Guinness 580 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: makes Guinness Book of Records, Um, got its start in nine. 581 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: The story goes that the then managing director of Guinness 582 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: Brewery UM one Sir Hugh Beaver which is another great name, 583 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: Hugh Beaver. Um. Yeah, he attended this hunting party at 584 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: in Wexford and UM. During that hunting party there was 585 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: this friendly argument about what the fastest game bird in 586 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: Europe is, um, and the party failed to find an 587 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,439 Speaker 1: answer in any of the hosts reference books. So Sir 588 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: Hugh got the idea to promote Guinness with a book 589 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: meant to help settle pub arguments, and that book morphed 590 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: into the Guinness World Records that we know and we 591 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: frequently referenced today. Their website has the answer to that 592 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: original question. By the way, Um, the fastest game bird 593 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: in Europe is the golden clover. Ah, yes, the golden plover. 594 00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: So there you go. Well, do you know that is 595 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: very enriching. My patronis is a swift and that is 596 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: the highest classisfying bird. But I guess it's not a 597 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: game birds not a game bird, so different things. Yeah, Okay. 598 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: In ninety nine, to celebrate two hundred years of brewing, 599 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: Guinness dropped one fifty thousand bottles in the Atlantic Ocean. 600 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: Inside the bottles are a variety of things like instructions 601 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: on how to make the bottle into a lamp, Guinness story, 602 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: a gold Guinness label and a certificate for the Office 603 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: of the King of Neptune. Yeah, all right, they've done 604 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: some really interesting marketing campaigns, that is for sure. Yes. 605 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: But also in yes, a scientists employed by Guinness named 606 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: Michael ash came up with the Guinness Surgeon Settle, the 607 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: world's first nitro beer. As America emerged from the dark 608 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: cocktail times of the eighties, new beers looking to revive 609 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: porters and stout's turned to the UK for inspiration, but 610 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: they were only able to find about three dozen stouts 611 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: three dozen steps being produced in all of England, and 612 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: most of those were the sweet Stop variety, which had 613 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: by then earned the death knale of a nickname Old 614 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 1: Fashioned Lady Drink. Oh No, No. One. Event did help 615 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: bring back porters and stoubts when English brewery Samuel Smith 616 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: combined forces with an importer for Washington States, merchant have 617 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: been named Charles Finkel to recreate the oatmeal stout, specifically 618 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: to sell to Americans. Finkel grew interested in them after 619 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: discovering vintage labels proclaiming their healthfulness. He went to then 620 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: beer authority Michael Jackson, the Beer Hunter, UM, wondering if 621 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 1: he had tried one. Jackson hattn't, but he gave Finkle 622 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: his suggestions our ideas on what it might have tasted like, 623 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: and Finkel passed those notes on to Samuel Smith. The 624 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: resulting product laid the foundation for what we now call 625 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: traditional style oatmeal stouts. And Yeah, as we were going 626 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: through this craft to be a revival here in the 627 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: US and other parts, UM, porters and stuffs are very 628 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: much hard of that. And I know some breweries specifically 629 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: are trying to educate people and focus on them and 630 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: and bring them back, and there's festivals around them, and 631 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: I know some do like a whole stout lineup or 632 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: whole porter lineup. So that's exciting. I'm glad. I'm glad 633 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: that it's making a comeback. It is absolutely. Yeah. The 634 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,399 Speaker 1: thing that the like, the like phrase that I ran 635 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 1: across a lot in doing this research was like people 636 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: just going like, if you like coffee, you're gonna like 637 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: porters and stouts. It's the same flavors. Yeah, they're they're 638 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: not necessarily heavy. They are quite delightful if you if 639 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: you haven't tried any trial one yes, or if you 640 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: had a bad experience, maybe give it another go if 641 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: you want, if you want, do what you want. Don't 642 00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,879 Speaker 1: take our advice unless you sure do what you want 643 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. So I feel like you know, that was 644 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,760 Speaker 1: a massive endeavor, but we there was something cobbled together. Yeah, 645 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: that's that's the rise and the fall and the rise 646 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: yet again of the Porter and Stout Porter and Stout Resurrection. Yeah, 647 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: and we do have a little bit more for you, 648 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: but first we've got one more quick break for a 649 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsored, Yes, 650 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: thank you, And we're back with mal la la. I 651 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: don't know any drinking songs. Huh, Well we can fix that. Well. No, 652 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: I know the one from Lord of the Rings. But 653 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: that says more about me than perhaps I wanted to say. Annie. 654 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: Everyone already knew that about you. It's true. Why am 655 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: I hiding from myself? Sam wrote, I listened to the 656 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: Black Eyed pe episode this morning while at the blood 657 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: Bank for two hours straight. I get a lot of 658 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,280 Speaker 1: pod listening then, and I bet you mentioned the Carolina 659 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: Low Country dish Hop and John, but somehow you admitted 660 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: it's relative Limp and Katie, which switches out the rice 661 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: for haminy. Another dish akin to these is Limp and Susan, 662 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: which involves rice, okra and bacon. Eating black eyed peas 663 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: is my pleasure alone in our house. As my wife 664 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: doesn't like them. I'm still working to convince my son 665 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: they're worth eating. Hanging there. I I a lot of 666 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: things I didn't like when I was a kid. I 667 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: came around to Yeah, absolutely, yeah. My dad loved hominy. 668 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: I don't know how I I didn't come across this ever, 669 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: but oh yeah, yeah. My my grandmother loves it. Um. 670 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: She always a canned though, so I didn't like it 671 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:59,919 Speaker 1: until like very recently. Cans am I right? I liked 672 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: canned food. I was an interesting In some cases it 673 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: can it can lend a texture quality that is pleasant, 674 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: and in other cases I find that is not accurate 675 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: to my experience. I feel that is a fair assessment. 676 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: Thank you, Steph wrote I was listening to your Pineapple 677 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,240 Speaker 1: Redux episode and was reminded of a pineapple related experience 678 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: that I had in Thailand about a year ago. My 679 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: then fiance now husband congratulations and I were in Chiang 680 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: Mai in December. I'm a huge fan of tropical fruits, 681 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: pineapple in particular, and so was on the lookout for 682 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: any street vendors selling pineapples. I was delighted to find 683 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 1: pineapples of all sorts. They're ranging from tina tin of 684 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 1: pineapples that were no taller than the length of my hand, 685 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: crown included, and large pineapples with comically small crowns. I 686 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 1: can't remember which type of pineapple I bought from the vendor, 687 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: but I do remember that it was the sweetest pineapple 688 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: I had ever tasted. It was incredible. I was so 689 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: happy I found my new favorite fruit. After that, I 690 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,439 Speaker 1: decided I would buy some cut pineapple. I'm a street 691 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: vendor at least once a day during the rest of 692 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: our time there. I think it was our third day there, 693 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: after eating my daily dose of cut pineapple, that I thought, Wow, 694 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: these pineapples are so sweet. They're almost too sweet, like 695 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,560 Speaker 1: unnaturally sweet. I started getting a little suspicious and even 696 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: tried searching on Google and trip Advisor for any accounts 697 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: of street vendors sweetening cut fruit in Thailand. I wasn't 698 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: able to find anything, but that thought still nod at me. 699 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 1: That night, on our way to a night market, we 700 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: passed by a vendor selling fresh cut pineapple. We noticed 701 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: that as he was cutting them, he placed them in 702 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: a tub of water. I had assumed it was some 703 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: solution they used to keep the cut fruit fresh and 704 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: prevent them from browning, but now I thought maybe there 705 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,319 Speaker 1: was something more to within that. The vendor didn't speak 706 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: much English, so I couldn't ask him what the liquid was, 707 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 1: but we found out that he could speak Mandarin due 708 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: to a recent influx of Chinese tourists after a popular 709 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: Chinese film was shot there. This is where my husband 710 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 1: came in, being a Mandarin speaker himself. He asked what 711 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: he was putting the cut pineapple in, and the vendor 712 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,399 Speaker 1: told him it was sugar water. My husband then asked 713 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 1: why he did that, and he answered because otherwise they 714 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't be sweet, as if it was the most obvious 715 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,840 Speaker 1: thing in the world. Duh. Sadly, my tie pineapple bubble 716 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: was burst and I didn't buy any more pineapples from 717 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: street vendors the rest of our stay in Chiang Mai. 718 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: Though I'm glad we were able to solve that mystery. 719 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,720 Speaker 1: Part of me wishes I had never asked the question 720 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: and just stayed in blissful ignorance, because it just meant 721 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,240 Speaker 1: I ate less pineapple than I would have on that trip. 722 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 1: It reminds me of the scene in the Matrix when 723 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: Cipher is eating the steak and it looks so good. Yeah, 724 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: he knows it's not real, but he fits into it, 725 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:46,760 Speaker 1: and he says, ignorance is bliss. Oh that's a bummer. 726 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: That is a bummer. Or I don't know if it 727 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 1: was delicious. It was delicious. It's true if you liked 728 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: it sweet and pineapple. But you got a way, you know, 729 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: you do? You do? Yeah, you have to. You have 730 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: to find your own pineapple truth. We all do words 731 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: of wisdom where just to live by and we owe 732 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: it to these listeners, to you and you're quick with 733 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: Lauren if you thanks to both of them for writing in. 734 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can. 735 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: Our email is hello at savor pod dot com. We're 736 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,240 Speaker 1: also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, 737 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: and Instagram at savor pod and we do hope to 738 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: hear from you. Savor is a production of I Heart 739 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: Radio and Stuff Media. For more podcasts on my Heart Radio, 740 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: you can visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 741 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,799 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as 742 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,919 Speaker 1: always to our superproducers Dylan Fagin and Andrew Howard. Thanks 743 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 1: to you for listening, and we have that lots more 744 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: good things are coming your way.