WEBVTT - Setting The Record Straight: A Convo With The Creator of MF DOOM's Mask 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:18.840 Quest Left Show is a production of iHeart Radio, Ladies 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:19.400 and gentlemen. 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:23.640 Welcome to a q OLS short, not exactly in all 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:28.040 the way Full Epp of Quest Left Supreme. We know 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.640 my penchant for talking, so I'll say it's just short 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:33.520 and then next thing you know, it's four hours later 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.040 and uh we're still talking. First of all, thank you 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.519 for all the feedback that we've gotten on the shows 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:44.199 in the past year. And there's a particular episode ThunderCats. 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:45.279 Yo. 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.839 Man, I'm still falling down the anime rabbit hole. By 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:51.960 the way, I'm here joined by the one that only 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.480 opened my ego, So say a load to the people 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:54.880 of Mike. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:55.280 Hey. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.760 All right, So basically we were speaking of ThunderCats, Shane 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:04.840 his MF Doom Cheam, and you know he praised Hans 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:09.920 Solo for designing his jewelry, and yes he misspoke about 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:15.360 the creator of the MF Doom mask and uh, Dante 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:19.560 Ross and classic Dante Ross. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:21.080 Oh my god. 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:23.000 I felt like I was bringing a home of bad 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:24.880 report cards and I was like, wait, what did I do? 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:25.479 What did I do? 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.560 Yeah, but you know, Dante Ross and others to pointed out, 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:33.240 and you know, I'm big on correcting history and speaking 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:38.280 of history, So of course I immediately wanted to perhaps 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.679 do a correction episode. And of course there was no 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.560 mause or harmon foul in our misinformation. 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.040 And you know, we're living in a time where a. 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.880 Lot of misinformation gets passed on and no one ever 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.440 corrects it. So yes, even us at the Quest Left 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:55.960 Show are big enough to say, hey, are bad. 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.280 We want to make it right. So as a result, 0:01:58.560 --> 0:01:59.520 we want to bring. 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.760 The actual creator of the do Mask and hopefully in 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:09.119 this little mini episode, really really get proper context on 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.160 an item that we've talked about and heard about for years. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.520 First of all, Kiels, good sir, welcome to this short 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:17.360 How are you today? 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.160 Thank you man, It's an honor to be here. I'm man, 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:24.480 I'm blessed to be alive. I'm grateful. You know what 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:24.799 I mean. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:26.600 Thank you, thank you, Thank. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:27.560 You guys as well as well. 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:31.720 Absolutely we are. So where should we start, Mike. 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.200 I mean so I think we should start where you 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.320 just sort of set the table. Thundercap misattributed the creation 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:45.079 of the mask, and it's such an iconic design, recognizable everywhere, 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:49.799 and as much as you know you remember, I would 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.280 love to just hear about how that all came together 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:53.240 to begin with. 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.919 So first of all, let me just start by saying, yeah, 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.320 I worked on the Mask, both the early version and 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:05.639 the later Gladiator version that most people know. But bigger 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.399 than that doing was my brother Man. I loved that Cat. 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:13.520 I did his first album cover as MF Doom, which 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.239 is called Operation Doomsday. I designed his logo I did. 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.800 The next one we did was recreate kmd's Black Bastard. 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:26.120 We did the all the special herbs, basically anything on 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:30.480 Metal Face Records. And I'm talking about MF Grim's down 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.760 Fall of v bleas the Monster Island Czars rot Dan's 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.160 first album. All of that I was blessed to be 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:41.600 a part of. And Doom stayed in my house. I 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.680 later stayed at his crib in Atlanta, and when he 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:49.520 was overseas, he knew my daughter, I know his kids. 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:53.720 You know what I mean. That's family. So I don't 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.280 want to argue with anyone about who did what or 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:01.040 you know what I mean. There's no real status in that. Yeah, 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.720 because I'm doing new things. I'm currently and I still 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:08.280 work with Jasmine, Doom's widow and the estate, and you know, 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.440 like we just did this and then the next one. Yes, 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.600 you know what I'm saying. So these were things that 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.320 Doom and I planned while he was still here in 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:21.599 the physical. We talked about certain color ways and he okay, okay, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.200 we're gonna do the blue and orange, and we're gonna 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.479 do the black and silver, and we're gonna keep it 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:27.920 like you know what I mean. And then we had 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.760 alternative so we discussed rollout for albums and merch and 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:37.960 things that are still in the works. So it's bigger 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.760 than just the mask. But yes, I had a hand 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:45.560 in conceiving of his first mask because he knew that 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:50.080 he wanted to like a graffiti writer, and he came 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:54.600 from a graffiti background and mentality. He wanted to keep 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:59.040 a level of anonymity, so you recognize the artwork, you're 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.200 a fan, but you I don't know the personality behind it. 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:08.760 At the time, when Barbito was putting together the album 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.320 and Bob had never done artwork before. He always had 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.200 white label, Fondulum was just singles in a white sleep. 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:21.159 This was a new thing, a special thing. Around that time, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.919 the WU had come out and ghost Face was seen 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:29.560 wearing a white stocking mask. A Cantyhope, you know, like 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.720 you would rob a banquet, and Doom was like, Yo, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:34.480 that's fly. I need something like. 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.480 That because in Doom's early appearances at like New yurekn 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.200 he covered his face similarly with a stocking correct. 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.599 Yeah, sometimes he wore a bandana, like you know Jesse 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.559 James robbing a train. Sometimes he wore a stocking mask. 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:53.640 But we were actively working to develop something unique to 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.720 Doom and his persona that would allow him because he 0:05:57.920 --> 0:05:59.680 liked to go to the bar and sit there and 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:03.000 and be a regular dude. And then when he jumped 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.839 on stage, all of a sudden, people are cheering and 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.800 they know the lyrics. But he's sitting next to you 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:14.040 the whole night and nobody bothers. Now. I don't know 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.000 if that's because he achieved some level of fame and 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.320 notoriety as a little kid with KMD, and he had 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:24.400 a taste of what that's like, but you know, fame 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.960 without fortune. I grew up seeing a lot of my 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.599 hip hop heroes riding on a subway train with me. Right, 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.840 somebody assumes you're a star. They may be jealous, they 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:37.960 might want to try you. They think you have money 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.839 or jewelry that you don't even have, and now you 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.520 have to fight every day or people, you know, even 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.080 as a graffiti writer. And I'm not a famous dude. 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.080 I'm relatively like under the radar. I don't have a 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.080 Wikipedia page or anything. I walk down the street and 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.320 people call me out by my name that I don't know. 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.560 They're like, yo, I follow you on instan Gram and 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.479 I'm like, okay, well, what's your name? State your name? 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.200 You know what I mean, Like, let's start with that. 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:13.000 Introduce yourself. It's awkward. So I understand Doom's desire to 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:17.880 just be able to create, produce music without being a 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:23.400 public figure the target. Yeah, and he's still to this 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:28.240 day people want to deify him and speculate on you know, try. 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.200 I get questions all the time, and I'm just like, yo, man, 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.800 he was a regular dude. That's my man. Like, you know, 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.640 he was about feeding his family and all the things 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:44.720 that you know, when we deify somebody, we almost separate ourselves. 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.960 You know what Doom did, You can do? You know 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.240 what quest love does you And I'm talking to the 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:57.240 kids watching out there, mhmm. You can create your own 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.920 universe and artwork and do all these amazing things and 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:03.200 still be a regular guy. 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:03.560 Man. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.160 You know, I grew up in hip hop, and a 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.280 lot of the cats that I knew and worked with, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:14.640 whether through graffiti, m seeing, dancing, they went on to 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:15.600 start them. 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:16.560 Right. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.080 So I went to high School of Music and Art 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.000 request I believe he went to a similar school. 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.080 In Philly, Yes, Philly, right. 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.240 So it's a public school, it's poor kids, it's kids 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.080 from middle class backgrounds, kids from the project, but everyone 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:33.600 had a talent and a creativity. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.360 Was this in New York City, Harlem? 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.960 Yeah, one hundred and thirty seventh at Convent Avenue. 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:39.800 Oh so it wasn't. 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.079 I wasn't then impression that Laguardio was the only performing 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:45.000 arts school in New York. 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:46.360 There was one in Harlem as well. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.240 It was originally two sister schools, one called Performing Arts, 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.360 about which the movie and television show Fame was made 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.640 with more about stage and dancing, all those kind of things. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.000 And then the sister school, which was up on City 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:04.120 College campus, was called Music and Art, and we had 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.120 a fine arts program, and we had an instrumental and 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.040 vocal music program. So ard Wright went there. The drummer 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.400 Mackie from the Crow Mags was their scheme. You know, 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.240 the Kango Crew. My brothers, Dana, Dane, like Rick, they 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:21.160 were in class with me. We used to battle every 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:25.240 day in the lunch they went there. Damn the fresh 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:29.760 three mcs f r s. They were just ones to 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:34.400 have records out of that school. Okay, you know a 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:39.640 jazz musician's famous old manner of creatives were there. 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:40.520 I never knew that. 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.920 Bernard Wright went to my high school. What rest in peace. Yeah, 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.080 he was a little older than me. He was vacating 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.240 when I was coming in as a freshman because I 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:55.640 got there in nineteen eighty eighty to eighty one, Planning 0:09:55.720 --> 0:10:01.400 got murdered. Okay, So mc searched talks about seeing me 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.360 battling the Kango Crew at the lunch table and it 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.520 inspiring him to believe that he could do this thing. 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.320 Before he was empcy search. He didn't have a name. 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:16.200 He was just Michael Baron and okay, he always bigs 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.720 me up for inspiring him. So I want people to 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:24.120 understand that whatever Doom did, he's a regular cat and 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:29.400 you can do that too. Don't don't disqualify yourself because 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:34.400 in the era I came from we were all just creating. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:39.760 We didn't have social media, we didn't have institutions behind us, 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.840 money back in corporate nothing. We just made art for 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:44.480 art's sake. 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:49.120 How many versions of that mask were like as far 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.440 as the evolution of it were there four different stages 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.600 of that mask or so. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.959 The first mask which you see in the first three 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.880 music videos which were shot might buy a cat name 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.720 Adam Baala Lowe okay, and he went on to be 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.199 a big documentary filmmaker. You can check him out. I 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:13.160 know you're a documentary okay yourself. So he was at 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.400 NYU film student at the time. I don't know where 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.320 Doom met him, but you know, Doom had a way 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:23.600 of attracting talent and getting cats on board. So they 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:28.280 did these first three music videos for free question Mark 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.079 with featuring Curious, which we shot in in Sunset Park 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:36.480 in Brooklyn. That mask was cheap plastic, like one of 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.560 these halloween things you had when you were a kid, 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:42.160 with a rubber band in the back. And I spray 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:47.439 painted it with rustolium aluminum spray paint, and I drew 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.280 the details with a marker and I cut it with 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.200 a razor blade to the right shape. That one did 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:59.920 not last. In fact, at that video shoot in Sunset 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.600 Part after they cut, he set it on the bench 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.520 next to him. Everyone was drinking Jack Daniels, right, someone, 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.280 I'm not gonna mention the name sat on the mask 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:17.480 and the things it split across the nose and eyebrow. 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.400 So Doom brought it back to me to my studio 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.680 which is in Sunset Park, Brooklyn, and he wanted me 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.760 to try and repair it, and we began discussing. He 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.040 was like, yo, I need something solid man. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.200 Sorry to interrupt that there is a new design. You know, 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.960 the perception of it was that that one was more 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:43.040 directly informed by Doctor Doom. The Doctor Doom mass from Marvel. 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:44.320 Is that is that correct? 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.480 Yeah, that was my inspiration. I drew little rivets on 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.800 it and certain shading. You know. Jack Kirby had a 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:58.040 way of very simply illustrating metal and mechanical thing that 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.920 you know, people still try to get to this day. 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.840 And it resonated with graffiti riders because it was thick 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.840 black outlines and it was something you could do with 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.080 spray paint, you understand. So yeah, there was a lot 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.360 of that in there on Marvel, Disney please do not 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:19.720 come from me. We created own. This was a unique construction. Okay, 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:25.560 it's Mikey Mouse, it ain't Mickey got you. So after 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.600 that one split, we got the idea that you know, 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.360 we were running around Lower Manhattan. Barbito used to live 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.079 on fourteenth Street and the shop was on ninth Street, 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:38.280 and we shot my favorite Ladies video on Second Avenue. 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.559 It was all the East Village we were running around. 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.440 You know, they were the first show's doom ever did. 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:47.880 Were at Brownies and the Pyramid, these little l e 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:52.200 s alphabet city punk rock clubs. Right. They had a 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.920 lot of antique stores over there, and curio shops and 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.560 shops that sold you know. There was an entire place 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:04.120 on Houseton where it comes to a triangle near first 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.920 that was an outdoor you know, it was covered like 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.600 a tent and they had everything, signs from the subway 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.280 and basically whatever you could want. So I said, maybe 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.280 we can find a suit of armor. Somebody's got an 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.040 actual medieval suit of armor and we could use that 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.360 that as the basis. While we were running around, we 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:30.200 didn't find anything suitable. We passed a place called Forbidden Planet, 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:35.800 which is a huge comic book store on Broadway, like 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.360 twelve or thirteenth when you're going uptown towards Union Square. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.720 They got the whole block with a wrap around window. 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.720 Me and Doom were both comic book heads, you know 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.960 what I mean, since kids, and a movie had just 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:54.680 come out with Russell Crowe called Gladiator, and we had 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:56.840 never seen the film. We didn't know anything about it. 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.160 We didn't know who Russell Crowe was, but we saw 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:03.280 the mask. It was like a souvenir of a gladiator 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.760 helmet which had a big fin on the top and 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.600 spikes sticking out that metal. You know. It was a 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.040 full full helmet, and it was wouldn't stand in the window, 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:18.080 and I was like, yo, that. So we bagged that 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.560 up and I took the face plate off, which was 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.880 hinged right here so it could swing like a motorcycle helmet, 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:29.440 you know what I mean, and discarded the rest and 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.960 we just worked with that metal face plate. And I 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.280 took it to a cat I knew who did sculpture 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.840 and had some welding tools, and we made certain modifications 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.720 so that he could wear it comfortably. And it had 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.640 the inside of a construction worker's helmet. There's like a 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.160 fitted plastic you know, like in the back of a 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:56.040 fitted cap adjustable, there's this webbing that your construction helmet 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.040 sits on it, so it doesn't actually sit on your head. 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.120 It floats, right. So we just took that webing and 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.080 we put two school holes and we have fixed the 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.720 first version of the metal mask to that, and Doom 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.720 rocked with that for a long time. And it also 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.920 served as a weapon. You could hold it, you know 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:22.200 when we start going to bigger venues sobs and bb 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.560 Kings which is no longer raven They used to metal 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.600 detect you. They used to search you to get in. 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.720 I was going to ask about airports, but good. 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.080 Yeah, exactly. So he had a case made for the 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.560 mask and he could listen, I'm performing this is part 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.000 of my boom boom boom. They would let him in. 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:41.960 But if you held that thing by the back of 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.120 the straps and you caught somebody with it, it not 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.400 only weighed about seven pounds, it was stainless steel and 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:53.920 those two tusks were sharp, right, So I've seen dudes 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.880 try to jump on stage and Doom catch him with 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:01.640 that and boom. It's a rap. So it served many purposes, 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.159 And there were days when and I don't want to 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.480 snitch doom. It is no longer here, so he's immune 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.080 to prosecution. You know. He was a creative dude, but 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:17.280 he wasn't soft by any means. Okay, that's a lot 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.600 of people think nerd rap or something. No, a nerd 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.560 is a sucker. You can be well read, you can 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.919 be into many many aspects of culture and history and 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:33.720 religion and sciences and mathematics and still not be soft. Okay. 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.520 So there were times when we had to sneak weapons 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.440 into the club, and he made a case with a phone. 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.880 You know, if you purchased the gun, what it would 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.280 come in a hard case as a microphone is carried 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.680 that way or an instrument. It has a foam cut 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.879 out for the mask. So the weapons went under the 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.960 mask so we could get through the metal detector and say, 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:58.280 hey man, it's just it's my costume. Understanding there'd be 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:03.160 a little twenty five automatic inside of BB King's Okay. 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.760 So yeah, the mass served many purposes. What happened it 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:09.880 became totally corroded and rusted. 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.680 The second version did it became the metal? 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.720 Yeah, So first he got it re chrome and he 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.879 purchased a couple more so he had backup versions. He 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.800 put a ruby right here at the third eye. He 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:29.040 also added on the interior a whole lot of different 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.520 minerals and uh, crystals and things which which held certain 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:38.760 power to him. Okay, okay, and herbs and he was 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:45.120 very into you know, esoteric sciences and natural you know. Yeah, 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.120 so he told me the mask was uncomfortable the rock 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.520 for hours. So he puts some copper in there, and 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.879 copper has a a healing property. I don't know a 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.439 lot about these things. Wow, So yeah, he made he 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:03.160 made a lot of modifications, as a gold plated one. Okay, 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.600 there was the silver version which he got re chromed 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.919 and added a ruby. So there've probably been at least 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:20.080 four versions of the metal mask, which was based on Gladiator. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.439 It was okay mask, but the original mask I still 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:31.080 have the We attempted to repair it, but it's it's broken. 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.840 But that's that's the first dum Masking to me, was 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:40.560 a superior visual. Maybe it wasn't as thirty, but it 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:55.000 is amazing, you know what I mean. So the funny 0:19:55.040 --> 0:20:00.439 thing now, they just made a reboot of Gladiator, the 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.959 movie they made A part two and all the younger 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:09.320 kids who don't remember were like, yo, he's wearing a. 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.480 Doom right now. 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.159 Stole that mask from MF Doom. And I'm thinking, like 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.600 jay Z said he could make a Yankee hat more 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.600 famous than a Yankee cab, right, Yeah, we made that 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:27.200 mask more popular than a big fucking budget Hollywood studio 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.119 film with stars, and nobody remembers that bullshit. 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:36.240 Well alog culture, man, it's the absolute like genius marketing device. 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.520 It's so weird because when I first started going to 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.360 Fat Beats and they were trying to give me, They're like, no, man, 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.040 zebha VX has a new character out and this was 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.880 and I was like, why would he? Like I came 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.399 from the school of like, you know, a big giant 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:58.040 kmdfen and was wondering, like, why is this shrouded in mystery? 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.320 Like show us your face and whatnot? I do have 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:01.840 to ask. 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:07.359 So I believe I was witnessed once to a Doom 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:11.680 show that wasn't a Doom show. Air quotes the specs 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:16.360 on that look so unique and specific as a one 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:21.080 off art piece, Howard Katz getting and I'm talking about 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.640 the occasional Doom impostures that were out there. 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.800 So what I know is that Doom had legal issues 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.040 that didn't allow him to travel. 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:33.119 The travel I get it. 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:39.159 Okay, he had his man who was this basically his 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.560 same physical stature, right. 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:46.560 Gotcha, and taught him how to Millie Vanilli this shit 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.440 so that he could appear with the mask on and 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:51.600 get that money. 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:56.320 Because that's almost that's almost as legendary as within him 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.040 just being M F. 0:21:58.119 --> 0:21:58.399 Doom. 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.640 But also, you know, right, but. 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.240 We've all gone to shows where half the Wu Tang 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:09.119 didn't show up, or you know, Lauren Hill was seven 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:14.080 hours late. So he just found a way to circumvent that. 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.040 If the powers that be didn't want to let him 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.560 into the country, he'd send this man and still get 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.800 that paycheck and two shows on the same night, and 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.040 the fans are happy. 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:33.240 I was at a couple of and we was not happy. 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:37.800 But I do so I certainly understand, though, I certainly. 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.560 When I was a kid. When I was a kid, 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:43.280 I used to go to the Latin Quarters and cats 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:46.239 had singles out and you never knew what they look like, 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:53.160 right video, right, So other dudes would show up it's 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:58.399 your money and promote themselves as being you and I've 0:22:58.440 --> 0:22:59.000 seen it. 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:02.679 Yeah, I just did a day Last solo episode in 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:08.080 which Macio shares a story about dealing with the fake, 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:13.840 the fake and the fake BDP. 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:16.440 So no, I know that can happen. 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.359 My man at the time, and we're talking eighty six. 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:22.960 My running partner, he was from Brooklyn, but he was cool. 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:27.680 Keith's cousin right. His name was Roman Geo, so he 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:30.879 had a lot of game and he got us into 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:34.840 Club Free, didn't I wasn't even aware he had told 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:40.199 Mike Goldberg, who owned the Latin Quarters, that I was 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:44.000 Mike D from the Beastie Boys, so that we could 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:46.920 get in free. I didn't even know he had done this. 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:50.000 Now in eighty six, the Beastis have the biggest record 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:52.880 on the planet, you understand. You know this is why 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:57.640 I'm so protective today of my IP because I come 0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:03.800 from a time when we didn't have any podcasts, videos, books, There. 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.840 Were no no way to tell y'all story. Really, there were. 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:11.840 No institutions teaching hip hop. We had to police ourselves. 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.280 I'm very grateful for all all the people that jumped 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.520 into comments and it's like, nah, that was Keio because 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:23.240 your name was all you had, right, especially as a 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:29.480 graffiti writer. So we could parody Marvel comics or the 0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:33.480 Kung Fu flicks or even real life historical figure. You 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:37.159 could claim to be Frank Nitti or Al Capone, but 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:41.600 you couldn't say you were rock him, right, you understand. 0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:45.200