1 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: Hello, re name, Hey Kaitlyn, it's the fall. 2 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 2: I'm deciding to enjoy the season and take every day 3 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: as it comes somewhat. 4 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 3: SUCCESSFULI that's code for Caitlyn hates this time. 5 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 4: Of the year. 6 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 5: I do. 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:32,279 Speaker 1: I have a really hard time. 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 6: But even this time of the year where it's beautiful, 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 6: it's like seventy five degrees outside. 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: Thing, I'm trying to enjoy it as a beautiful seventy 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: five degree day instead of a day that it is 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: slightly colder than the day previous, which means we're inexorably 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: marching towards death. 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: That's how fall feels to me in my heart. 15 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: So I just want to be honest about that, because 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: that's what I could. 17 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: Grapple with every fall. And by the time winter gets here, 18 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: I'm excited because I like skiing. 19 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, so what the I can get it. Then it's like. 20 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: It's the dread of the niceness being over. 21 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: I just wish it went from immediately nice to immediately cold, 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 2: and then I could. 23 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: Like, just it's a transition. 24 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 3: I don't like transitions. Oh my god, that's so weird. 25 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I love fall. I hate when it goes 26 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 3: too cold too soon. 27 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 6: I like the seventy five, seventy six, seventy seven, maybe 28 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 6: even sixty eight maybe like you know, like no, because 29 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 6: then I get to wear a coat, and you know 30 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 6: how many coats I have. 31 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: You're a bit of a coat. 32 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 3: I am a jacket girl. 33 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you like a jacket, yeah, which is ironic for 34 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: an Australia. 35 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 7: And boots. Sure love a boot. 36 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: I've seen lots of them. 37 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 6: I've got a pair of your boots that you gave me. 38 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 6: Actually what I wear all the time. 39 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: I'm happy that they're happy with you. 40 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're good. 41 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: This fall. 42 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: Is a special moment. It is the fiftieth anniversary of 43 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: Title nine when it started to go into effect. This 44 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: year obviously nineteen seventy two, fifty years on twenty twenty 45 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: two has been an entire celebration of Title nine. It 46 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: is the week the forty ninth, as you pointed out, 47 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: anniversary of the Battle of the Sexes. And I got 48 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: to do something very cool this fall, which is actually 49 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: kind of a nice sort of like a nice decompressing 50 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: trip very quickly to I went back to Missoo, my 51 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: my alma mater. Who was because I think, in part 52 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: because there is a female athletic director, the first ever in. 53 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 3: The SAC, I should point, are you serious? 54 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? Wow? 55 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing? 56 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 8: The SAC is not known for its no or its 57 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 8: progressive values, and this lady is so badass and had 58 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 8: the idea to throw a fiftieth anniversary of Title nine celebration, 59 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 8: invited those of us who had participated as titleline athletes 60 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 8: in any sport. 61 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: And have an evening, a weekend gathering in Columbia, Missouri. 62 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: And the coolest part about. 63 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: It was I got to go eat butchesburgers and like 64 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 2: revisit some scenes of some crimes, but mostly that the 65 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: people who were really the stars of the show were 66 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: that class, that first class of women who are now 67 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: in there, like upper sixty early seventies, who were the 68 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: first people. 69 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 7: To get scholarships. 70 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: I met the woman who got the first scholarship to Miszoo, 71 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 2: and these were no. 72 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 6: What you did was you met her and then you 73 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,839 Speaker 6: disparaged her sport of golf. Actually, because I am very 74 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 6: well aware of your social media, and you disparait so 75 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 6: all the golfers out there. 76 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 3: Look, some people say it's a sport. I say it's 77 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 3: a game, but it's still really fucking no, no, No, it's hard. 78 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: It's hard. Okay, to be clear, it's very hard. 79 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: I can't do it. 80 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, don't I'm disparaged the golfers out there. 81 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 2: This woman who got the first scholarship, Tim Zoo, was 82 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: in fact a golfer. I just think golf would be 83 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: harder if they had to like sprint between the holes, 84 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: you know, just like a little at a little cardiovascular Have. 85 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: You walked like eighteen holes? 86 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: I guess have tir ring, you know. 87 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 6: Okay, we're going to people, for all my golfing fans 88 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 6: out there, We're gonna go and play eighteen holes of 89 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 6: golf and we're gonna walk it. And Caitlyn's gonna know 90 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 6: that it actually is quite physical to be able to 91 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 6: do that. It's not running, and it ain't tennis, but 92 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 6: it's still not easy. 93 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: You know what else? It isn't pickleball. 94 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: Can we just briefly talk about this as we as 95 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: we record this episode. Apparently Noah Rubin and Andy Roddick 96 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: are having a Twitter conflagration, each on different sides of 97 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 2: conflagration conflagration. It's like a conflict of an integrated kind. 98 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a portmanteau of other things, 99 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 2: but essentially it's a large dumpster fire of an argument. 100 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: And Andy Prior podcast guest beloved visor wearing. 101 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: Andy American hero is on the right side of it. 102 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: Short socks, short sucks, exactly. You need to see a 103 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: lot of calf He's got some calves. 104 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, he's on the right side of this thing, 105 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: which is pickleball. If you if you're a pickleball person, 106 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: just look look yourself in the mirror and decide. 107 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 3: I thought you were going to say, walk into traffic. 108 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 3: So that's very aggressive you like to say that term. 109 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 3: That's why no pickaball. 110 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 6: Look, okay, I get asked about it all the time, 111 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 6: you pickable fan. I'm like, listen and I and have 112 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 6: some friends of mine who ex tennis players, like, no, seriously, 113 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 6: you'll love it. And I'm like, I don't want and 114 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 6: care to love it. 115 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: I'd rather go and play tennis. 116 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 6: And frankly, if I wanted to play pickaball, I could 117 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 6: just go dinky dink on the court. 118 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: I can just play tennis ball exactly. 119 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 6: I mean the thing is a lot of people love 120 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,679 Speaker 6: it because they are lazy, and you take two steps, 121 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 6: you literally feed the ball in and you take two 122 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 6: steps and then you can't go into the kitchen. 123 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 3: Like, what the fuck kind of sport is that? 124 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: Like it's not for athletes, and. 125 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 6: And the thing that ticks me off, and you know 126 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 6: how I feel about this, And yes, I'm getting a 127 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 6: little bit agitated as we speak. 128 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 3: Tennis channel. 129 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 6: Putting it on tennis channel kills me, Like is beyond 130 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 6: killing me, Like, have some creative content on tennis channel 131 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 6: that actually has tennis and tennis players and tennis docos 132 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 6: and tennis tennis tennis. It's a tennis channel, like because 133 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 6: pickleball might be fun for the social people to play, 134 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 6: and clearly people love to play it, they're old and lazy. 135 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: I mean, listen, if it's the choice between sitting on 136 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 2: your couch and doing anything, right, sure fine. 137 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: And I love that moms play with their doors. 138 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 2: Just don't take up, you know, don't colonize the tennis courts, 139 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: many of which are public tennis courts. Build your own stuff, 140 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: but you can put some lines down in a parking lot. 141 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 3: All of it. 142 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 6: But my dorable is TV, Caitlin. My problem is that 143 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 6: when you put it on TV, it is such a 144 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 6: bad watch on television. 145 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 3: That's literally the same point. It's like feed it in 146 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 3: teak teak. That's what it sounds like. 147 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: It's a tragic don't And also the fact that it's 148 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: all crypto funded, and Michelle Malkin, who's like an extreme 149 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: right winger, is like the most prominent person funding all 150 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: this stuff. Like, look at yourself in the mirror and 151 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: decide if it's a choice when you're doing nothing, you're 152 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: doing pickleball. I guess as long as you're not displacing tennis, fine, 153 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 2: But I don't want to hear about it. 154 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: I definitely don't want to hear it. 155 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 3: And I you can literally do it in your driveway. 156 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 3: I will, Okay, just do it in your driveway, drive 157 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: stup and net up. It's like back abaman, you know, 158 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 3: get your kids chalk out. 159 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 6: But put it on my tennis channel line you're straight 160 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 6: and play pickaball. 161 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 2: Fine, but back to the positives. Yeah, title line is 162 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: incredibly important. It changed not only do. 163 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 3: We do a hashtag no pickable instead of hashtags. 164 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: The war on pickleball begins and ends here. 165 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 3: But Andy Rottick. 166 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: And Erotic Thanks Andy for being on the right side 167 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 2: of history again. But I do want to say Title 168 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: Line is incredibly important. Our friends at Sports Illustrated had 169 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: an incredibly in depth, thoughtful interview with our friend and 170 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: Queen Billy Jean King, whose participation in the congressional hearings 171 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: back in nineteen seventy two all but guaranteed the passage 172 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: of this law. And this law, which guarantees equal spending 173 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: in institutions of higher learning between men and women, obviously 174 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: has ramifications for sports, but it has ramifications societally that 175 00:07:54,400 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: are reverberating to this day. Women who are CEOs Fortune 176 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: five hundred companies, politicians, politicians, leaders of industry. There are 177 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: stats that upwards of ninety percent of these types of 178 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: women played high school and. 179 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: In a lot of cases college sports. 180 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 2: And that is you meet people who are seventy five 181 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: and above women They were forced to fundraise, make their 182 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: own equipment, carve out their own schedules, ask politely for 183 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: men to share athletic facility spaces with them. And that 184 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: began to change after the passage of Title Lane fifty 185 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 2: years ago. And so it really cannot be overstated how 186 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: seismic this is. Obviously, it's personal to me because I 187 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: went to college because of Titleland, but just hearing Billy 188 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 2: talk about it and remembering it. 189 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 6: And my favorite story Caitlin in this is when Billy's like, hey, listen, guys, 190 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 6: I found the money to make it equal prize money. 191 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 6: And he's like, what, how dare you right? How dare 192 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 6: you make our lives even easier by finding more money 193 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 6: for us to put into women's sports, Because women's sports, 194 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 6: you know, and also you know, we talked about this 195 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 6: Billy when we had Billy on the podcast, and it 196 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 6: was along the lines of, you know, people are interested 197 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 6: in it in sports, but also you know there's a 198 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 6: lot of sports like the women's soccer League or you know, hockey, 199 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 6: basketball or whatever, they're very far behind tennis as far 200 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 6: as the longevity of. 201 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 3: The sports, you know, professional sports for example. 202 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 6: So tennis has you know, a bunch of decades on 203 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 6: some of these you know, w n B A, various 204 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 6: different women's sports. So if you have a built in 205 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 6: you have a built in fan base with tennis that's 206 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 6: been there for so long, and now you know, you're 207 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 6: getting a slowly getting a build up of you know, people. 208 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 3: That follow w n B A or you know, the 209 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: women's soccer League or things like that. 210 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 6: So you know, they passed that onto their kids, who 211 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 6: pass it on to their kids, and then what do 212 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 6: you know, there's a you know, a congloment, conglomerate of 213 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 6: women wanting to watch women's soccer, you know, or men 214 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 6: or their or their husbands or whatever. 215 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: So you've got to do that. That's it takes a. 216 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 6: Long time to get to a very popular place, whereas 217 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 6: tennis has been there for so long with the ALTHEA. 218 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 3: Gibson's back in the day. 219 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: For sure, women were raising trophies over their heads in 220 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: the spec in the realm of tennis for going back 221 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 2: on nearly one hundred years. Whereas you know the end 222 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 2: the w NBA, the women's national soccer team, those sports 223 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 2: back then, right, I mean women got kicked out of 224 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 2: the Barston Marathon in the nineteen seventies, Like this is 225 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: this is crazy, but it also in an era where 226 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: women's rights. 227 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 3: Are getting trebled then. 228 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: Men's we are not equal citizens in society. It is 229 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 2: a reminder to celebrate something that was meaningful and to 230 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 2: protect it and to work forward. So thanks to our 231 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: friends at Sports Illustrated, that's Dan Bloom and others who 232 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: put this really really great episode together, and it. 233 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 3: Was great, Caitlin. 234 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 6: I listened to it, and it's really really informative and 235 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 6: easy to listen and easy just to learn. 236 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: It's easier to listen to than pickleball, I can tell 237 00:10:58,960 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: you how much. 238 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 3: But it is great. 239 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 6: And of course listening to Billy tell any of her stories, 240 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 6: it's worth twenty thirty minutes of your time. So Caitlin, 241 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 6: good job, thank you, and. 242 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: We'll be back. We'll be back ranging against something. 243 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 3: We'll be back for too long. We'll be back. 244 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 6: I'll get a few tennis plans that must leave, all right, 245 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 6: and tell soon thanks you name. 246 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 4: On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly. This year marks 247 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 4: the fiftieth anniversary of Title nine, the federal civil rights 248 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 4: law that has been instrumental to women's sports, and since 249 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 4: Title nine's enactment, you'd be hard pressed to find any 250 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 4: person who's done more for women's athletics than Billy Jean King. 251 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 4: In addition to her on court accomplishments in tennis, King 252 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 4: has served as an activist, a business woman, and an 253 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 4: iconic cultural figure. Today you'll hear from Billy Jean King 254 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 4: after she won SI's Muhammad Ali Legacy Award and to 255 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 4: offer additional content, we have Kaitlyn Thompson of Racket Magazine 256 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 4: here to put Billy Jean King's life and achievements in perspective. 257 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 4: I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated and iHeartRadio. 258 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 4: This is Sports Illustrated Weekly. 259 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: My name is Kaitlyn Thompson. I am the co founder 260 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: and publisher of Racket, which is a quarterly magazine about tennis. 261 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: I'm also a former Division one athlete who benefited unbelievably 262 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 2: gratefully from generations of women coming before me, not least 263 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: of whom was the tennis legend Billy Jan King. 264 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 7: Tennis is my last sport I grew up. 265 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 9: Basketball is my favorite sport American football, volleyball, baseball. 266 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 7: My younger brother played twelve years of professional baseball, and 267 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 7: then Susan Williams asked. 268 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 9: Me to play tennis in fifth grade, so we went 269 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 9: to her country club. When I'm going, well, I'm never 270 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 9: going to get to play tennis because my dad's a firefighter. 271 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 9: We don't have that kind of money. 272 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 2: She was a kid having to go into private tennis 273 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 2: clubs in southern California, which were very, very dissimilar from 274 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 2: the public long beach tennis courts that she grew up 275 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,599 Speaker 2: on with chain link fences, which were very similar to 276 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: the ones I played on as a kid. Never been 277 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 2: a member of a country club, neither his Billy Jean. 278 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 9: Playing at the Los Angeles Tennis Club, the mecca of 279 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 9: tennis in southern California, and I realized everybody wore white shoes, 280 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 9: white clothes, you know, play with white balls, and everybody's white. 281 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 7: And I said, where's everybody else? 282 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 9: ALTHEA Gibson, the first black person ever to win a 283 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 9: major in tennis. 284 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 7: She was my first si Ro. 285 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 10: I would have never thought that, coming from the streets 286 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 10: of playing paddle tennis, that I would have the opportunity 287 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 10: to shake the hand of Queen Elizabeth. 288 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 9: I actually got to see her live at the Los 289 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 9: Angeles Tennis Club and I looked at her and if 290 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 9: you can see it, you can be it. And I said, 291 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 9: that's what number one looks like. I wasn't thinking race 292 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 9: or I'm thinking she looks like number one. She's the 293 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 9: best in the world. I had this epiphany when I 294 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 9: was twelve. I think teaed up my whole life. If 295 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 9: I can make it to. 296 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 7: Number one, I have to be number one. I'm a girl. 297 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 7: Nobody will listen if I'm not at least number one, 298 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 7: And I thought, maybe, just maybe I can make the 299 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 7: world a better place. 300 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 9: Now. 301 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: In the third set, Billy Jean serves for a match 302 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 3: point beautiful shock, and the Wimbledon title is hers Missus 303 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 3: Billy Jean, King of America, the new Queen of Tennis. 304 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: What we have to sort of remember is Billy Jean 305 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: was not only a star at the time, but also 306 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 2: somebody who was battling the tennis powers that be, Like, 307 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: I don't think they wanted to start their own tour 308 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: Billy in the original nine and glad as hellman. What 309 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: they wanted was to have equal parity for pay, something 310 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 2: approximating equal promotion, equal TV time, you know, all of 311 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: these things to be commeasure with the men. The women 312 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: were proving that they could draw crowds, that they could 313 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: be incredibly similating. You know, they were putting female tennis 314 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: players on postage stamps, they were creating fashion crazes. And so, 315 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 2: after decades of sort of being marginalized, seeing women getting 316 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: gains and the US American Lawn Tennis Association, led by 317 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: Jack Kramer, sought to keep their boots on the necks 318 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: of women, like it was not a breakaway league for nothing. 319 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: And I think when you look at how often they 320 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: tried to get men to the table, she had meeting 321 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 2: after meeting, after meeting with Jack Kramer, with Stan Smith, 322 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: who also vehemently opposed equality, with Arthur Ash who vehemently 323 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 2: opposed equality with the women. Although later Arthur and Billy 324 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,119 Speaker 2: Jean sort of made amends and came to an understanding 325 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 2: about the ties between civil rights and gender rights. But 326 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: every man who was playing tennis, from what I can tell, 327 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: quite threatened by the fact that women were playing alongside 328 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: them and asking for money and earning audiences, and they 329 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: saw it as a zero's home game. I mean, that's 330 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 2: an attitude that persists to this day. 331 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 9: Basically, women athletes just were always in the background, and 332 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 9: basically we weren't thought of really that much, and. 333 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 7: So it's hard on all a lot that's just on me. 334 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 9: But we'd always talk and say, I wish we had 335 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 9: the media attention and so people could hear our stories 336 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 9: as well, because every human being has a story. 337 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: When you look at what it took for Billy to 338 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: take time out of her touring schedule to sit down 339 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: with brands and potential sponsors and sell them on the concept, 340 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: creating league and personally wrangling people like Robert Kraft who 341 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: went on to own the New England Patriots and be 342 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: one of the most like celebrated sports team owners of 343 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 2: all timer Genie and the Buses in La who started 344 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 2: as a world team tennis league holders, getting Virginia Slims 345 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 2: to Greatest Sponsor tournament, getting other women to get paid 346 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 2: a dollar symbolically to leave the tour was a risk, 347 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 2: and she was willing to put her money where her 348 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: mouth was every single time. 349 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 5: Following as an exclusive presentation of ABC Sports Live from 350 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 5: the Astrodome in Houston, Texas, the Tennis Battle of the 351 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 5: sexas Billy Jean King versus Bobby Riggs. 352 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 11: Any you I can be hard? 353 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 2: I can't read any hard. 354 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: You know you can. 355 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 2: I think she knew it was important because it could 356 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 2: galvan people in a cultural way. 357 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 9: And it was my moment because we had ninety million 358 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 9: people watching. That's never going to happen again playing a 359 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 9: tennis match, and it wasn't about tennis. It's about social change, 360 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 9: at least it was to me and Title nine had 361 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 9: just been past year before, so I was hoping it 362 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 9: would have long lasting impact. 363 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 2: The cultural case needed to be made. And coming into 364 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: this match against Bobby Riggs, who was, you know, sort 365 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 2: of a washed up gambler, inveterate you know, boozehound, smoker, 366 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 2: a gambler, he was like a real wild personality. 367 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 12: He stands befolio for exactly what he is. A charlotte, 368 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 12: a faker, the biggest hussler in the contemporary chronicle of sports, 369 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 12: now ancient, a relic of what he was once he 370 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 12: could play tennis. Now he resorts to beating women and 371 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 12: destroying the whole lib movement in the United States by himself, 372 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 12: the n f B. Bobby Riggs, I'm ready. 373 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 11: To write and I'm going to try to win for 374 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 11: all the guys around the world who feel as if 375 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 11: the male is king, the male are supreme. I said 376 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 11: it over and over again. I still feel that way. 377 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 11: Girls playing ice came to tennis for girl, But when 378 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 11: they get out there on a court with the man, 379 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 11: even a tired old man of fifty five, they're going 380 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 11: to be in big tuble. 381 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 5: You know. 382 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 2: A lot of folks say, like, well, you know, he 383 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 2: was maybe two decades older than Billagan King, was this 384 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 2: even a fair match? For context, he had beaten Margaret Court, 385 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: the other sort of luminary of that era, Bobby Riggs 386 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 2: beat her handily in what became known as the Mother's 387 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 2: Day Massacre. She was somebody who didn't believe in gender parody. 388 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: She was somebody who didn't believe in racial parody. She 389 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 2: famously supported apartheid in South Africa. She is now a 390 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 2: anti gay preacher who supports commercial therapy in Perth. You know, 391 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 2: she's like a real gem. But I don't think she 392 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: at the time understood that this wasn't just a way 393 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 2: to get paid to play an exhibition match, but in fact, 394 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: when you put yourself up against a male athlete, you're 395 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: really competing for all women. Women's suffrage was less than 396 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 2: fifty years old when Robby Wade hadn't yet been law. 397 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 2: And you know, now in a context in which women's 398 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 2: like authority over their own bodies is stripped away from us, like, 399 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 2: it is so hard to forget how much this country 400 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 2: hates women. Billy saw in that moment and how she 401 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 2: felt like she was going to be playing for not 402 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: just herself, in her own glory and probably the glory 403 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 2: of her Ni Tennis League, but also every single woman 404 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: who was being slapped on the ass as a secretary 405 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 2: and kept out of a boardroom, and the things that 406 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 2: we know persist to this day. And then the fact 407 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: that she went out and played against Bobby Riggs and 408 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: beat him in the best of five in the Battle 409 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: of the sexes. I think for many women became like 410 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 2: a rallying cry, this is going to be the real match. 411 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 7: This was really all about. 412 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 9: Because Bobby challenged me in the first place. 413 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 7: I didn't want to start an issue. 414 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 9: But now that Margaret went ahead and opened the door 415 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 9: did such a miserable job. 416 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: You know, I think that I can beat Bobby. 417 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 7: I won't be able to strike you out on court. 418 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 7: I love pressure. You can try to psyk me all 419 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 7: you want. 420 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: And I think she went into this match knowing what 421 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 2: was on the line, knowing she would have to not 422 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 2: only beat Bobby Riggs, but beat him vehemently, allow him 423 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 2: to spout his male Chauvin's nonsense about how women deserve 424 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: to be in the kitchen, and you know, no little 425 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: girl is going to come up and show him what's 426 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 2: what in his own court. But also play along with 427 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 2: it and use every opportunity to pugilistically make the case 428 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 2: that this was this cultural moment. 429 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 5: The winner of the Battle of the Sexes Billy Jean 430 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 5: King by scars Uh. 431 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 12: Six more, sixth grade, sixth three. 432 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 9: I haven't gone through a day yet that someone hasn't 433 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 9: brought it up, not one day. 434 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 7: The women. 435 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 9: What really happened right after, particularly, is they got very excited. 436 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 7: They said they finally have more self confidence. 437 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,479 Speaker 9: For the first time, they had the courage to speak up, 438 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 9: for the first time. 439 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 7: They asked for a raise. 440 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: Billy's always underderstood these cultural moments as being lightning rods 441 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: for ways to push forward, and I think for that reason, 442 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 2: you know, making a film, however good or bad, out 443 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 2: of it, was a logical thing for her to sign 444 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 2: on to and be excited about. You talking, Bobby More nonsense, 445 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 2: you spell the worst gonna be when you lose. 446 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 3: I'm the ladies number one, I'm the champ. 447 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: Why would I lose? Okause dinosaurs can't play tennis. 448 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 2: She's very aware of how these stories tend to get 449 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 2: buried or rewritten with each successive generation. The victors get 450 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: to write the history. And if you're not part of that. 451 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 2: You're going to get relegated to the dustband rot. 452 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 7: Right by. You find a. 453 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: Lot of how she transcends sport, active culture, our imagination 454 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 2: being on stage with you know, Elton John who wrote 455 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: Philadelphia Freedoms, which became a gay anthem for her to 456 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: celebrate her World Team Tennis League team called the Philadelphia Freedoms. 457 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 2: You know, she just is at the center of gravity 458 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 2: in a lot of these moments because she can't help herself. 459 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 2: She just can't not be that person. I think, uh 460 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 2: and I you know, I think it's for everyone's betterment. 461 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,959 Speaker 2: One thing that Billy has always understood is the power 462 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 2: of not only celebrity and culture, but also the power 463 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 2: of money. When she was founding a league, when she 464 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: was getting her own sponsors, Virginia Slims notably came in 465 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 2: as the first sponsor of the WTA Tour. It wasn't 466 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 2: until they could pay prize money that she felt like 467 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: it was a real thing that was happening, and not 468 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: just sort of charity honorarium prize money, but prize money 469 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 2: that's somewhat approximated the men's equal. 470 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 7: Prize money at the USO win in seventy three. 471 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 9: I went out and got the sponsor for that to 472 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 9: make up the difference, and then I went and talked 473 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 9: to the tournament. I talked to Billy Talbert, the tournament director, ago, 474 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 9: by the way, we've got the money to make the difference. 475 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 9: You don't have to go out and get one more 476 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 9: time with sponsorship. 477 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 7: We will give it to you. And he went, what now. 478 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 9: I don't think that would have happened or I would 479 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 9: have had the understanding or the courage to go do that, 480 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 9: to ask if I had learned Because of my ownership 481 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 9: and being in business in the tennis business at the time. 482 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 7: I think it made me understand the other side. 483 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: As soon as she was able to establish the Women's 484 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: Tennis Association and make sure it was sort of financially sustainable, 485 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 2: she turned her attention to soccer and to basketball, to 486 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 2: women's softball and all these other sports because she knew 487 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: that the power sort of to negotiate was really where 488 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: they were going to be able to make permanent, lasting 489 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 2: change and honestly, like create permanent respect in the I 490 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 2: think in the larger sort of cultural context. 491 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 7: Athletes just want more. I want more money, I want 492 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 7: more of this I want better hotels, I want this, 493 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 7: I want better food. I want I want, I want, 494 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 7: I want. And then I asked them, do you know 495 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 7: about the business. I got to know. 496 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 9: I think if you want to negotiate that you need 497 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 9: to know all sides, not just your side. 498 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 2: The ties to Billy Jean King and Serena Williams, who 499 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 2: has the most Grand Slams of any player male or woman, 500 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 2: who was arguably the most dominant player, certainly of her era. 501 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 2: She doesn't happen without Venus Williams. And Venus Williams is 502 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: actually the tie between Billy and Serena because Venus not 503 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 2: only one handful of Grandslamps herself and broke through so 504 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 2: that Serena could be not totally burdened with being an activist. Really, 505 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 2: Venus was the activist between the two sisters, and she 506 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 2: took the playbook right out of Billie Jean's maneuvers. 507 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 4: I arrived to the Grand Slams in tennis at the 508 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 4: age of sixteen years old and found I wasn't being 509 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 4: paid equal and that's a hard blow for young women, 510 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 4: and I don't want other young women to go through this. 511 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 2: She went to Wimbledon, which at the time was not 512 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 2: giving men and women equal pay. She wrote an op 513 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 2: ed for the Times of London about why denying her 514 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 2: equal pay was the wrong thing to do. And then 515 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 2: also she went behind the scenes at the All England 516 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 2: Lawn and Tennis Club and made a case to the 517 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: board filled with, as you might guess, old white men, 518 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 2: and then went out the next day and beat Lindsay 519 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 2: Davenport in what is considered one of the greatest final 520 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: matches men or women of all time. So many people 521 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 2: like this young lady art book Venus Willan's back into 522 00:26:59,080 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 2: the women's circle. 523 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 7: But the moving thoughts it. 524 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,239 Speaker 2: So I think Venus really understood from Billy because they 525 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: talked in because Billy was very, very keen to get 526 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 2: them on board and get them situated in the tennis tour, 527 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 2: because she knew that her star was fading and she 528 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: would have to find people to uphold not only her 529 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 2: legacy but the legacy of women sports and push it 530 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 2: forward as they have done. And I think with Billy 531 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 2: giving Venus the playbook to be an activist, to go 532 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 2: into those rooms to write the op eds, then you 533 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 2: have Serena who doesn't have the pressure on her to 534 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 2: be the first in the space. She's doing it with 535 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 2: her sister. 536 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: She can just. 537 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 2: Honestly play tennis part of Billy's legacy. And I think 538 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 2: Serena and Venus for sure understand that these women who 539 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: came before them, much like title ninded for all these 540 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 2: generations of women who came before me, who I meet 541 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 2: in boardrooms, who I see, you know, giving speeches on 542 00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: the floors of Congress, like these are people who literally 543 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 2: walked so that we could run. And I think when 544 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 2: you look at what a seismic figure like Billy did 545 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 2: with provision and then continues to do by backing it 546 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 2: up and training the next generation of folks, then it's 547 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 2: sort of clear where folks can pick up the mantle 548 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 2: and you know, and essentially keep going. 549 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 7: Tennis is a catalyst, was my way. It was my 550 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:22,959 Speaker 7: way of reaching others. 551 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 9: And I'd always try to get the other players that 552 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 9: think like this, obviously, because they all come from different towns, 553 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 9: different villages, different countries, and one thing about tennis, were 554 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 9: really international, and this is an opportunity for them to 555 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 9: make their place whatever they decided to do to make 556 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 9: it better, to improve it, you know, because we're one 557 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 9: of the lucky ones. 558 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 7: Athletes are one of the lucky ones. To me, it's 559 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 7: a responsibility. 560 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 2: Tennis showed that women from any country in the world, 561 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 2: from any background in the world, can compete on equal 562 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 2: footing with men. That's still not true in every other sport, 563 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:04,239 Speaker 2: not quite. Is still the highest paying for women, and 564 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 2: it's the one, because of Title nine, that women are 565 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: able to access. If not the most, then certainly in 566 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 2: terms of popularity. Tennis doesn't need to be alone in that. 567 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 2: I think, if anything, I would love to see that 568 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 2: in every single sport. But because this sport, like I said, 569 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 2: it's got its problems and the all white tennis clubs 570 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 2: and the you know, lack of sponsorship or quality. You know, 571 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 2: there's no domestic violence policy. However, on the plus side, 572 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 2: I think it has been inspiring for generations of women. 573 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 2: If you look at professional soccer, it's existed for less 574 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: than this fan of my lifetime. The same is true 575 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: for literally every other women's league. The WNBA didn't exist 576 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: before I was born. But you know what, women were 577 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: playing tennis professionally, winning and hoisting cups over their head 578 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 2: when before my parents were born, right, And so a 579 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 2: lot of this has to do with generations and decades 580 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 2: of visibility and decades of progress. 581 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 9: You know, we couldn't get a credit card in nineteen 582 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 9: seventy three. Title line has just been passed in nineteen 583 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 9: seventy two, and thinks it was about sports. 584 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 7: Sports is not even mentioned in title nine. 585 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 9: I think it talks about activity or something. We got 586 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 9: lucky that that was added, I think. And then you know, 587 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 9: I Senator birch By is one of my heroes. He 588 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 9: and I talked about this, but he had no idea 589 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 9: that the effect it was going to happen. 590 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 7: What it did, though, is. 591 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 9: Got rid of the quotas for schools for women, like 592 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 9: if you want to go to Harvard to get your 593 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 9: medical degree, they only allowed five percent in a classroom 594 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 9: before nineteen seventy two. And you'll notice in the seventies 595 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 9: early seventies a lot of schools became co ed because 596 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 9: this is about federal money having to be used equally 597 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 9: at colleges, high schools, private or public. If you get 598 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 9: any federal funds, you had to for the first time 599 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 9: give it equally to boys and girls. 600 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 7: And then you'll see all these schools because if you 601 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 7: follow the money, it always. 602 00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 2: Happens and is typically put into a sports contact specifically. 603 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 2: You know a lot of collegiate athletes, obviously because they 604 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: are seen as the biggest beneficiaries of Title line. I 605 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: was one of them. I got a tennis scholarship to 606 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: play at the University of Missouri, where I studied magazine journalism. 607 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: I got a free education that I probably would not 608 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 2: have otherwise been able to afford. But I think a 609 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 2: lot of people don't really understand about Title nine, especially 610 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 2: who haven't spent a lot of time around female athletes 611 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 2: and women in positions of power. Is the amount of 612 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 2: women in leadership roles that have benefited from this law, 613 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 2: and it is a direct result of their being basically 614 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 2: them being invested in by American society. If you look 615 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 2: at Fortune five hundred companies, if you look at the 616 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 2: you know US Congress, like Christian Jilbrand who played college sports, 617 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: or Uzo Aduba who you know win Zemis but also 618 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 2: was a college track athlete paid for by Title nine 619 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 2: at Boston College. 620 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 9: When whoever is not getting a fair deal in this case, women, 621 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 9: particularly women of color and live with disability. 622 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 7: When they get the opportunity boom, they take advantage of it. 623 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 9: And that's why you have this flood through the years, 624 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 9: because it took a long time for Title line to 625 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 9: start kicking in. 626 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 7: It didn't kick in in the fall of. 627 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 9: Seventy two, even those past June twenty third, nineteen seventy two. 628 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 9: It really and it's still not even yet. So it's 629 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 9: we have a long way to go still, but at 630 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 9: least you have to get things started. 631 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 2: I thought this year would be sort of like a 632 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 2: celebratory year, to be like, hey, Title mind, Like you know, 633 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 2: it's it's fifty years old, and look how far we've come. 634 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 2: And you know, all these women that won the Olympic 635 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,239 Speaker 2: gold medal in nineteen ninety six and beyond, and all 636 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 2: these women's sports leagues that are now grappling with and 637 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 2: in some cases achieving parody with their male counterparts, like 638 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 2: the US women's national soccer team for example, hockey, basketball, 639 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 2: certainly tennis. All of these gender pay issues are resonant 640 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 2: throughout sports. It all goes back to that generation of 641 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 2: women who was raised and fully funded by Title nine. 642 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: Like it's not an accident. This is a natural conclusion 643 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 2: of what happens if you empower women and then give 644 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 2: them something close to equal footing. It's not quite equal, 645 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 2: but something close to equal footing. And now we're having 646 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 2: this conversation instead of like a celebratory tone like, oh, 647 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 2: we've rolled back and made laws specifically that violate the 648 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 2: sanctity of women's ability to choose for themselves what happens 649 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 2: with their bodies. And so it sort of for me 650 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 2: underscores how important it is codify protections for women and 651 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: protect them at all costs, because otherwise we have a 652 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 2: society that's seemingly pretty intent on rolling back the rights 653 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 2: of women to exist equally in society at every turn. 654 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 2: Tennis has sort of been on the right side of 655 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: history more than it hasn't sporce is inherently political. Who 656 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 2: we let play, who gets on the field, who we celebrate, 657 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 2: who we pay, all matters. It's all choices. It's not 658 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 2: an accident. And so I look back at these decades 659 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 2: of something approximating equality with Tyler, and I think to myself, like, Wow, 660 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: they had to push so hard for this. We owe 661 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 2: it to them to push further and not let it backslide. 662 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 4: Billy Jean King is a Tennis Hall of Famer and 663 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 4: the latest recipient of SI's Muhammad Ali Legacy Award, pay attention, and. 664 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 9: This is the one thing that Muhammad Ali Ali and 665 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 9: I used to talk about, pay attention. You never know 666 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 9: how another person is going to touch your life, how 667 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 9: you're going to. 668 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 7: Touch their life. 669 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 4: Kaylin Thompson is the publisher and co founder of Racket Magazine. 670 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 4: Caitlin also recently reviewed Billy Jean King's autobiography All In 671 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 4: for The New York Times. We'll post a link to 672 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 4: that in our show notes. Thanks for listening, and a 673 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 4: reminder to please rate and review our show. It helps 674 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 4: people find us. Sports Illustrator Weekly is a production of 675 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 4: Sports Illustrated and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 676 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your 677 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 4: favorite shows. And for more of Sports Illustrated's best stories 678 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 4: and podcasts, visit SI dot com. This episode of Sports 679 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 4: Illustrated Weekly was produced by Jessica Yarmoski, Jordan Rizzieri, and 680 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 4: Isaac Lee, who is also our sound engineer. Our senior 681 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 4: producers are Dan Bloom and Harry swart Out. Our executive 682 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 4: producers are Scott Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme 683 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 4: song is by Nolan Schneider, and if you've stuck around 684 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 4: this long, we leave you with this. 685 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 2: I'm really just a backboard for you to hit against. 686 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 3: I like that metaphor.