1 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, this is Lee Clascal when We're Talking Transports. 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host, 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Lee Clascow, senior freight transportation logistics analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's end house research arm of almost five hundred analysts 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: and strategists around the world. A quick public service announcement 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: before we dive in. Your support is instrumental to keep 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: bringing great guests and conversations to you, our listeners, and 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: we need your support. So please, if you enjoy this podcast, 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: share it, like it and leave a comment. Also, if 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: you've got ideas, feedback, or just want to talk transports, 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: I'm always happy to connect. You can find me on 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, on LinkedIn, or on x at Logistics. Lee, 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: I'm very excited to have with us Paul Jaroslowski, the 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: CEO and founder of frate Caviat, a platform that brings 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: together freight brokers, dispatchers and truck drivers for providing entertainment 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: and education to the logistics industry. Welcome to the podcast. 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: Lee, Thanks for having me today. 18 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: All right, so why don't you give people a little 19 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: taste if you will, What exactly a freight cavy are is. 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: I'll give a quick background on who I am. My 21 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: name is Paul. I'm originally from Chicago, born and raised, 22 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 2: started working in logistics as a freight broker. As many 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: people do know and others don't, Chicago is recognized as 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 2: the freight broker in capital of the United States, and 25 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: got to start as being a freight broker, and then 26 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, I launched a platform called freight Caviar. 27 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: We started off originally as a meme page for the 28 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: logistics industry, specifically for freight brokers, and then we progressed 29 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: after building an audience to having our own podcast, our 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 2: own newsletter, and we just launched our own print magazine 31 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: last quarter. So we're developing or revolving into media company. 32 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: But we started off as a meme page. 33 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: That's pretty exciting. That's a great, great evolution in a 34 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: quick evolution at that. So, you know, I'm assuming it's 35 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: not a huge organization. Is it just you? You and 36 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: a handful of folks. Do you guys have backers? Can 37 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: you just a little to talk to us a little 38 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 1: about the ownership of the company. 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, So it's one hundred percent bootstrapped. I am 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: the owner of Freight Caviar, and we we do have 41 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: a team here. Uh so we're it's interesting. So we 42 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: we are for the US market, but I currently reside 43 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 2: in Poland and so does most of my team. But 44 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: half of our team is actually from the States, but 45 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 2: they live in Poland. But we are looking into hiring 46 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 2: a few individuals in the States to share. 47 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: All right, great, so could you just tell us a 48 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: little bit about behind the name, Frey Cavier. I think 49 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: it's a cool name. Yeah, big fan of freight. 50 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: I like caviar too, so thanks, Ley. So interesting story here. 51 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: We originally started uh being called shipping palettes. And the 52 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: reason why I put shipping pallets is was the Instagram name. 53 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: This was October twenty twenty was because I actually had 54 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: opened my own brokerage at the same month and our 55 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: only customer was well, it was an Amish family. There 56 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: were those refurbishing palettes too, by old palates and refurbishing it. 57 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: So I was just using shipping pallets for a few months, 58 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 2: and then one day I was listening to the Rap 59 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 2: Caviar playlist on Spotify, and all of a sudden it 60 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: hit me that the page should be called freak Caviar. 61 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: So within minutes I called my best friend Tom and 62 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: I to I asked him what he thought about it, 63 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: and he thought it was a wonderful idea, especially especially 64 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: since we're kind of based here, like in Eastern Europe, 65 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: where you know, caviar is quite popular. And then at 66 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: the same time kind of highlighting in the beginning, we 67 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: used to highlight a lot of like the Eastern European 68 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: part of the industry in the States, like the truckers 69 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: and the dispatchers, and so he loved it. I loved 70 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: the right way. I bought the domain minutes after I 71 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: had the call with him, and I changed the Instagram 72 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 2: username at the same time. So yeah, it's just kind 73 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: of a fun, fun way of having the name come 74 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: to life. It was from the rap Caviar playlist on Spotify. 75 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: So I want to explore something you just mentioned, you know, 76 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: the Eastern European you know, you know, involvement in the 77 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: freight transportation market. Can you talk a little bit about that, like, 78 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: you know, why, why is that a thing? Is it 79 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: just dispatchers? Like what what's going on? 80 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? I love this question ly, So this might be 81 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: actually a long answer here. So I'm a first generation 82 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: Polish American. I was born and raised in Chicago. Parents 83 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: immigrated from from Poland and and so I grew up 84 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: in the suburbs of Chicago, specifically displays, and I went 85 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 2: to Mainse High School. Maine' High School is one of 86 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: the most diverse high schools in the nation. And what 87 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 2: I'm trying to get to, I guess here is like 88 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: I I was always surrounded by the Eastern Europeans, you know, 89 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: I was also one of them. And and what was 90 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: interesting for me was I would go to Polish school 91 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: every Saturday. And then after I graduated, I went to 92 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: UBI University of Illinois or Brandash Champagne. I started working 93 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: in logistics and one of the first things I realized 94 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 2: was that a lot of these dispatchers I'm talking to 95 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: are based like in Serbia or Lithuania, some are based 96 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: in Poland, some were based in Ukraine. And it really 97 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: intrigued me because at this time I was twenty four 98 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 2: or no, actually sorry, I was twenty one. I'm like, wow, Like, 99 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: they're working from Europe, Eastern Europe, and they're working on 100 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: the US market. And the reason why is because a 101 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: lot of Eastern Europeans, you know, when they come to 102 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 2: the States, they're either going to become a truck driver 103 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: or go into construction. Those are usually the two fields 104 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 2: you go into, especially if you didn't really know English 105 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 2: that well. And so it was definitely a field that's dominant, 106 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: dominated by immigrants. And so like the Eastern Europeans, the 107 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 2: ones that came, they ended up outsourcing their back office 108 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: through their home country, and it was It's quite interesting 109 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: because from the brokerage perspective, brokerage didn't really outsource their 110 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: operations their back office until right around the pandemic, and 111 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 2: so interesting enough, like the second I worked for Trek Freight, 112 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: which was acquired by Becker Logistics a few years ago. 113 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 2: That was my first job. I worked there for a year, 114 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: I ended up leaving, and then the second job I 115 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: accepted was evers Transportation Systems. And what was really cool 116 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: about Everest was so they actually wanted to open up 117 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: an office in Ukraine, and they asked me if I 118 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: wanted to move to Ukraine open up and back or 119 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: support office in Kiev, and I was then I was 120 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: twenty four, and I jumped on an opportunity and so 121 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: I moved to Ukraine with different three years and there's 122 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: just a huge market for offshoring dispatchers and operations and 123 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: it's been like that for a while now. It seems 124 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 2: like the Delilah Law, if it gets passed, there's some 125 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 2: restrictions in that law when it comes to offshore offices. 126 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm not sure what the impact might 127 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 2: be because of that, But overall, there are a lot 128 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: of Eastern Europeans, specifically from Chicago that are in trucking 129 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: and that's Serbians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Polish, Bosnian. So like there's 130 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: a large population of these Eastern European individuals that have 131 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: trucking companies in Chicago. Interesting. 132 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: Interesting, And you mentioned the Delilah Law. Can you expand 133 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: on that for our listeners? 134 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah, So the Delilah Law, this is a law 135 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: that was I think it just passed the just past 136 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: the House GOP house yesterday. I'm not exactly sure here, 137 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: but there was some movement pertaining a law yesterday. I 138 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: know Secretary Sean Duffy has been tweeting about it. But overall, 139 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: Delilah is a girl that was in an accident trucking 140 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: that involved an immigrant I think that had a non 141 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 2: domiciled CDL, and and now the the law will would 142 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 2: restrict non domiciled CDLs. I'm not sure if fully maybe 143 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 2: potentially fully eliminate them. And also inside of the law, 144 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: there's also some restrictions on the ability of having dispatch 145 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 2: offices outside of the US, Canada and Mexico. And so 146 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: it's it's moving quite rapidly. It's it's getting a lot 147 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: of traction, especially on n X. I'm sure you've probably 148 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: seen it quite often. So we're we're going to see 149 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: if if it actually becomes law. I know Craig Foller, 150 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 2: the CEO of Freight Waves and Sonar, has said that 151 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: this would this could potentially to really high rates on 152 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 2: the spot market, and so I think there's gonna be 153 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: a lot of domino like effects that that happened because. 154 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,719 Speaker 1: Of it, right, and and those might remember that we're 155 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: tuned into the State of the Union address this year 156 00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: President Trump. Trump mentioned the law Thelila Law during his 157 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: his speech. So you know, you have your finger on 158 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: the pulse of you know, what's going on in the 159 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: brokerage industry. You talk about with the state of the 160 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: freight broker industry is right now in North America. 161 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: Sure, and and I've never since since I started Freak Caviar, 162 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 2: I don't think there has ever been a time where 163 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: there's been so much news that pertains the trucking and 164 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: brokerage uh, and so many updates ongoing. And so when 165 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: it comes to like even curating our newsletter, UH, it's 166 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 2: it's there's a lot of news that comes out on 167 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: a weekly basis, so there's continuous updates. We have, ah, 168 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: the the non domiciled CDLs UH, which which is a 169 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: topic that's really hot right now. If you go on X, 170 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: you'll see a lot of individuals are talking about non 171 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: domicile CDLs. And then there's there's a lot of cargo 172 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: death on going in the industry and it's been growing 173 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: year over year rapidly. 174 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: Uh. 175 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: There are a lot of problems in our industry, and 176 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: I think a lot of them are just coming to 177 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: light right now from like a mainstream media perspective. 178 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: Uh. 179 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: You you might have seen lee like there's been shipment 180 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: hijackings or at least from from a few celebrities over 181 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: the last year. And I think that X has been 182 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: quite quite good and kind of sharing or bringing this 183 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 2: narrative to light. But we we as an as an industry, 184 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: have a lot of issues and there's a lot of 185 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: hot topics on going right now that are some are 186 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 2: very like political and there's continuous updates in our space. 187 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a big there was a truck of 188 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: Santo tequila that was stolen that was owned by Guy 189 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: Fury and Sammy Hagar. Yeah, that hit the news not 190 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: too long ago. You know, we kind of talked about 191 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: the law a little bit. You know, there's other laws 192 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: that are that are kind of being floated around or 193 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: argued ones in front of the Supreme Court, which you know, 194 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: you don't get the brokerage industry in front of the 195 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: Supreme Court that much about broke reliability. How do you 196 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: think that's going to play out? And you know, how 197 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: do you think it's going to impact the industry, you know, 198 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: assuming that the Supreme Court, you know, I don't know, 199 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: maybe you think that they're not going to rule against C. A. 200 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: Robinson or or in one way or another. Just kind 201 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: of want to hear your thoughts. Sure. 202 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: I spoke to Matthew Leffler, the Armchair Attorney. 203 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: Uh he's been on this podcast, so please check back 204 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: and listen to that episode. 205 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, Matthew's great and and so he he understands 206 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 2: this better than anyone in our industry, I believe. Uh. 207 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: But so if if the government rules against broker does 208 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: it just will make the I would say, the compliance 209 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: effort for company that are transportation service providers much more 210 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 2: nuanced and tedious, and so it just will add another 211 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: layer of work. And so what Matthew brought on when 212 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 2: I when I interviewed him was that the small players 213 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: are the ones that will get affected the most because 214 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: they're the ones that let's just say, for example, a 215 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: small brokerage hires a carrier and they're in an accident 216 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 2: and for some reason the brokerage you know, gets hit 217 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: with lawsuit or has to pay out a couple of 218 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 2: million dollars because of medical fees. They're the ones that 219 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: are gonna be closing down shop. Whereas let's just say, 220 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 2: compared to Sea Trobertson, the largest freight brokerage in the country, 221 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 2: they won't really be affected if if they get hit 222 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 2: with a lawsuit, they'll pay it out. They have the 223 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: money in capital to do it. So if anything, it's 224 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: going to be really hitting the smaller players in the 225 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 2: brokerage space. And I think that there's many viewpoints here 226 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: because I see that trucking companies and truckers believe that 227 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 2: brokeriages should be responsible for who they hire, whereas brokerages 228 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: believe that if the government rules a trucking company to 229 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: be compliant or could legally haul freight, then it's up 230 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: to the government to decide whether or not they should 231 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: they could or not haul haul the load. So I 232 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 2: think that overall, it's it's if the Supreme Court rules 233 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: or rules against the brokerages, it would just add another 234 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: layer of compliance, and each brokerage will have to be 235 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: very very careful when it comes to hiring, and they 236 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: are already being very careful, so I think they just 237 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: would It would increase the difficulty of finding the right carrier, 238 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 2: because if you're a freight broker, you're selling capacity to shippers. 239 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: You're essentially telling shippers I have access to trucks, and 240 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 2: you're usually competing on price, and that's that's and you know, unfortunately, 241 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 2: a lot of times the cheapest carrier is usually one 242 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 2: that's not really compliant. 243 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: Uh. 244 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 2: You know, that's not all all all cases, but in 245 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: many many ways. It is. So if if you're competing 246 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: on price, and all brokerages are in almost all situations 247 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 2: in some way, shape or form, it just will most 248 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: likely increase the price of the cost of transportation or 249 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: it's it's just going to have negative effects, negative science effects, 250 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: consequences for for these small brokerages that could potentially have 251 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: a lawsuit and shut down their door. 252 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: And so you know, NAU probably when your day to 253 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: day you speak to a lot of market participants, whether 254 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: it's truckers or brokers or somewhere ancillary players, you know, 255 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: what are they telling you about the freight market right now? 256 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: So we have seen the freight market essentially like for 257 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 2: the last four years, it's it's been it's been a 258 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: slow market. So the frame market is very cyclical. It's 259 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: nature is very cyclical. But having a down market for 260 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 2: almost four years is I don't think we've ever had 261 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: such a such a bad market for such a long time. 262 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: And it's because it's been saturated with with trucking companies 263 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 2: and and during COVID a lot of entities were opened. 264 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: Uh you know, like there are there are a lot 265 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: of people that are out of work during COVID and 266 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: a lot of individuals started decided to get into logistics 267 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: because there's there was a market for it. Goods were 268 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 2: being moved. There's a lot there are a lot of 269 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: goods that were that need to get needed to be shipped. 270 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:40,359 Speaker 2: So we have had a poor market for basically four years. 271 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: And and everyone you know has had predictions that I, oh, 272 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: we're really we're getting out of the freight recision. Uh. 273 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 2: Many many thought that because President Trump was elected that 274 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 2: the freight market would would get better. And there is 275 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: maybe some truth to the market getting better right now, 276 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: but it is not because of there's there's not more 277 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: demand when it comes to the volume of freight. UH. 278 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: The volume the demand is not really there. There's just 279 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: lower supply. There's fewer trucks and more trucks are leaving 280 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: the market. A lot a lot of it has to 281 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 2: do with U E, L P H non domicile CDLs. 282 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: A lot of it has to do with the government 283 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 2: getting rid of the supply and that's causing the market 284 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: to be tighter, which is increasing the spot market rates. 285 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: UH. 286 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 2: It means that the trucking companies that are compliant have 287 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: better rates and are making more money now of course, 288 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: we have the Middle East conflict, which is increasing diesel prices, 289 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: and we don't know yet what what those implications will 290 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 2: be for for the trucking industry as a whole, but 291 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: we know that's not going to be good overall, just 292 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: higher diesel prices. But yeah, just just to say, like 293 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: it's it has been a very very tough market for 294 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 2: four years, and we're finally at a time and place 295 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 2: where it's getting more difficult to find a truck. And 296 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: because it's more difficult to find a truck, brokerages are 297 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: paying more to trucking companies. So trucking companies are finally 298 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 2: making more money. And we've seen a lot of bankruptcies 299 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: over the last few years, and so I think it's 300 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 2: the good sign is that that the compliant trucking companies 301 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: are are making more money, and they could they could 302 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: be more profitable. However, it's not because all of a 303 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: sudden is more freight to move. 304 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: So, you know, it's interesting. We do a quarterly survey 305 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: with truck Stop, and you know, we kind of ask 306 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: owner operators a bunch of different questions and some we 307 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: get a lot of interesting commentary and some of the 308 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: consistent commentary, is they blame a lot of their problems 309 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: on brokers. Why is there so much anks between brokers 310 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: and carriers or carriers and brokers. 311 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this is a good question. So I was 312 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: fortunate enough to interview David Parker, who's the CEO and 313 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 2: founder of Covenant Logistics, back in December, and he founded 314 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: Covenant Logistics in nineteen eighty six, and his step brother, 315 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: Max Fuller is the founder of US Express. And so 316 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 2: David was telling us how he used to hate freight brokers, 317 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 2: and freight brokers weren't really a thing in nineteen eighty six, 318 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 2: like it existed ever since the deregulation of the industry 319 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty but it was still kind of non 320 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: really exist and it wasn't really well known. Not many 321 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: individuals were getting into brokerage, and so then brokera just 322 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: started kind of popping up more rapidly in the nineteen 323 00:18:54,840 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 2: nineties early two thousands, and David Parker hated brokers. He's like, 324 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 2: they're taking all my freight. And he just had this 325 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 2: realization that the freight is gonna move, the market is 326 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: going to dictate how the freight gets moved. If a 327 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 2: shipper wants to move a load via a broker, it's 328 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 2: going to move that way, and so he might as 329 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: well adapt, and so he ended up opening up a 330 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 2: brokerge in two thousand and six, and so they've been 331 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 2: in business for twenty years. It's two hundred fety million 332 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 2: dollars in revenue. They're publicly traded. And I think a 333 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: lot of this angst between like the truckers and the 334 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 2: brokers is because truckers just think that they're unnecessary. Brokers 335 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: are not necessary. Why are brokers here? 336 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: You know? 337 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of the time, like truckers 338 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: have this real like they have this belief because they're 339 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 2: told because they talk between each other, and this is 340 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 2: the belief is that brokersers make a lot of money, 341 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 2: and that brokers make a lot. It's un affair. Truckers 342 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 2: get treated poorly, and you know, it's I think that 343 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 2: there's there's some truth, you know, and there's always truth, 344 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: and like a lot of these topics that are get discussed, like, 345 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,479 Speaker 2: like I do believe that truckers deserve better treatment. And 346 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 2: you know, there's times where truckers go to shipper or 347 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 2: receiver and they're not able to use a restroom. 348 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: Uh. 349 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: And and there's you know, situations where a driver was 350 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: at the shipper waiting six hours to get loaded and 351 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: the brokers isn't compensating him for it, and there's really 352 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: no legal way to get that money. And so I 353 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 2: think that truckers are mistreated, and so because of this 354 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: mistreatment they have, you know, they just overall just don't 355 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 2: like freight brokers and they believe they make way too 356 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: much money. At the same time, if if you look 357 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 2: at publicly traded transportation companies, especially brokerages, you see that 358 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: their margins are right around like ten eleven percent, and 359 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 2: they're only decreasing every year, So the margins aren't really there. 360 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 2: There are some sometimes markets and loads that have much 361 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 2: higher margin, but an average that isn't there. But I think, 362 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 2: you know, like I I was a freight broker for 363 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 2: six years before opening my own brokerage, and I thought 364 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 2: it was a lot easier than it really was. There's 365 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 2: so much there's so much work that goes into operating 366 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 2: a freight brokeersers, and it's so difficult that if any 367 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 2: truck driver actually wanted to open up a truck a 368 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 2: freight brokerage you'd realize that it's a lot more difficult, 369 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: and uh, it's especially nowadays, it's it's difficult to make 370 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 2: the money that you need to and to grow and 371 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: operate the business. 372 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: Do you think there's anything that the broken industry can 373 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: do to kind of, you know, repair that relationship or 374 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: improve that relationship. 375 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: I think there's individuals out there that in companies that 376 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 2: really do a great job when it comes to treating 377 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 2: their carrier partners. 378 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: Sure, and I don't want to pain into a broadbrush 379 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: that this is sure, this is true, and this applies 380 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: to all brokers, because obviously there's the brokers out there 381 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: that have fantastic relationship with truckers, and there's a lot 382 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: of truckers out there that probably really appreciate that the 383 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: loads that they get from the brokers h and the 384 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: help that they from the broker. So but like, just 385 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 1: like broadly speaking, you know, what do you think they 386 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: could do? 387 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 2: It's tough to say what what broker just could do. 388 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 2: I I do think that in some ways some government 389 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 2: regulation or like at least some oversight when it comes 390 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 2: to certain aspects of of the industry might might actually 391 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 2: be a positive thing. Uh, because it's just when when 392 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 2: a trucker gets mistreated there they have really nowhere to 393 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 2: go and and and they just had to you know, 394 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 2: suck it up and get on their truck and move 395 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 2: the next load and move on with their life. And 396 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 2: it's it is unfair. And so like I don't know, 397 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: it's tough to say, like maybe some kind of coalition 398 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 2: could could come together, but it is it is still 399 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: a very fragmented industry. So any any effort would have 400 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 2: to really it would it would require a lot of 401 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 2: work in order to do to do anything together. 402 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, to your point, like I think what we hear 403 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: during these surveys is you know, the the one time 404 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: or the time that the person was mistreated and they're 405 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: you know to your point that they have no recourse, 406 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: so they're just angry, and you know it's probably an 407 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: avenue for them to vent a little bit. You know, 408 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: the broke registry has been changing a lot. Technology has 409 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: been driving a lot of that change. You know from 410 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: the folks that you talk to, you know, you you 411 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: listen to see Ah Robinson's earnings call, do you hear 412 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: from you know, their management team, they're you know, really 413 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: leaning into AI and some of the larger firm. Other 414 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: larger brokers like RXO are doing that as well. You know, 415 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: land Star is also looking to increase their overall productivity 416 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: through technology. You know, we need we need to talk 417 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,959 Speaker 1: to two smaller mid size brokers. What are their thoughts 418 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: on technology and you know, how are they going about it, 419 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: because it seems like it's not it's like table stakes 420 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: to be to be competitive with the larger players. 421 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I have a friend, his name was Anthony. 422 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: He's the founder of line Haul dot AI freight brokerage, 423 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: and he launched it a couple of years ago with 424 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 2: just the idea of being tech first. And we also 425 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 2: a back in December interview Max Fuller, who's the founder 426 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 2: of us Express. And interesting with Max was that he 427 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: was tech first. In nineteen eighty six, he was one 428 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 2: of the first one of the first fleets in the 429 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 2: States to have Qualcum technology and he had some also 430 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: some IBM I think way of tracking. I forgot what 431 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 2: the system was, but he was the second carrier after 432 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 2: Melton Truck Lines to have it. And this was back 433 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties. And Max has always been tech first, 434 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 2: and I think being tech savvy is it's really important, 435 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 2: especially if you're if you're trying to grow and scale 436 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 2: and be large. US Express at its zenith had almost 437 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 2: ten thousand trucks and trailers publicly traded. They got acquired 438 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 2: by night Swift, so it but to that point, David 439 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 2: Parker he would always just be watching what the industry 440 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 2: does and then he would he would adapt. So like 441 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 2: he he Max would always be the one first investing technology. 442 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 2: David always be kind of a little bit just just 443 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: seeing what other what his competitors are doing and seeing 444 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 2: what's working on what isn't and then you just apply 445 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 2: what does work from the tech from the tech side, 446 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 2: because there's a lot of new developments in tech and 447 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 2: freak tech, and there's a lot of money being invested, 448 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: especially specifically in a AI right now. And so from 449 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 2: from when you look at smaller brokerages, I think there's 450 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 2: some of them that are very tech savvy, like line 451 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 2: hauled at AI, and they automate many tasks and it 452 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 2: just makes them a lot more efficient and they focus 453 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: more on that the relationship component of actually talking to 454 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 2: their customers, meeting them in person, allowing technology to do 455 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: a lot of the work behind the scenes. And I 456 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: don't think that just because you're you using AI or 457 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: you're ahead of AI all of a sudden, that means 458 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: that you're you're able to eliminate the competition that that 459 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 2: doesn't use it, because this this this industry is so 460 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: relationship heavy, and it even like there are there are 461 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: people in this industry that still to this day like 462 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: all they all they really need to do this job 463 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 2: is is a phone and pay as sorry is there's 464 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 2: a phone and paper and maybe an email. Uh it 465 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: could be really just that's all you really need in 466 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 2: order to get the job done. As being a freight broker, 467 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 2: if you want to scale, if you want to grow rapidly, 468 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 2: you do need to make investments in that. And I 469 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: think the ones that are right now, if they're able 470 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 2: to understand history and understand that every company has to evolve, 471 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: that they'll be ahead of the curve. Because there are 472 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: some individuals that you know, they they maybe I hear 473 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 2: this quite often it's like, oh, he is not going 474 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 2: to replace brokersws AA is not going to do this. 475 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 2: AA's not gonna do that, And really, no one knows, right, 476 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of people that are very optimistic 477 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 2: about it from an AI lens and they think, a 478 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 2: I could do a lot, And I'm one of those 479 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 2: individuals that I think that we really like haven't seen 480 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 2: the best of it yet. But you know, it's still 481 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 2: it's still very limited to what it could do for 482 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 2: for a freight broker. It could make some emails, it 483 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 2: could make some calls, it could some it could automate 484 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 2: some updates near TMS. But I think I think it 485 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: is important to be ahead of it. But it doesn't 486 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 2: mean that the companies that aren't doing it yet will 487 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 2: be behind yet. 488 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: Uh. 489 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 2: Time will tell. Time will tell. Because this this this 490 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 2: industry is so dependent on relationships. So if you're able 491 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 2: to have a really good relationship with your shippers, you'll survive. 492 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: So broadly speaking, you know, how would you describe a 493 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: culture of your typical freight broker, you know, for those 494 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: that might be interested in pursuing a career in logistics 495 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: and and broken what they could maybe expect in that career. 496 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,959 Speaker 2: What's interesting about freight brokers, it definitely has like a 497 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 2: bro culture to it, kind of like a fraternity in 498 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 2: a way in it. I don't want to paint this 499 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: as the whole industry because I know there's there's places 500 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 2: where it could look a lot different, but from my experience, uh, 501 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 2: it's definitely had this kind of like you have to 502 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 2: work hard, so you're you're on the phone all the time, emailing, 503 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 2: replying on on weekends, uh, to to your emails or texts, 504 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 2: and it's it's an industry where if you want to 505 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 2: work hard, you will be rewarded. And it's not for 506 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 2: someone that's that's very laid back. It's it's it's quite 507 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 2: a stressful industry. I was definitely very stressed out. There's 508 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: this whole like you know, zin craze. Everyone's popping zins 509 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 2: nowadays at brokerages. I actually have some sinner here. I 510 00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: really take it, but I have some sins and it's 511 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: you know, drinking on the on Fridays. Like it's it's 512 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 2: definitely a culture that I would say emphasizes just kind 513 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: of like, yeah, the bro culture. It's when I when 514 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 2: I went from being at u of I in a 515 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 2: fraternity to being a freight broker, it wasn't that big 516 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 2: of a transition in many ways. So yeah, that's that's 517 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 2: what I would say. 518 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: All Right, maybe you should write a book like The 519 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: Liar's poker of a freight brokerage. That'd be pretty good 520 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: with some you know, salty stories. So just giving that culture, 521 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: is that why kind of what you do resonate so well, 522 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, tying together kind of humor and you know, 523 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: you know, industry knowledge. 524 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that resonated really like with a lot 525 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 2: of people. What freak Eber does is it really showed 526 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 2: what the industry is like in a truthful way. Because 527 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 2: you know, back in the day, you'd go on any 528 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 2: any website that was reporting on logistics news and let's 529 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 2: just say, like it just it would kind of create 530 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 2: this idea that it's it's very professional, it's it's very 531 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: well maintained, every everything is like in order, when in reality, 532 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 2: it's it's just all chaos. And and that's what logistics is, 533 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 2: especially if you're if you're working in a freight brokerage, 534 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 2: you walk in and it's it's absolutely chaotic. And so 535 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 2: like what I think what resonates with what we do 536 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: from like at least from like a meme side, is 537 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 2: that we our memes really showed the story of what 538 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 2: it looks, what it feels like to be a freight 539 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: broker work inside of a freight brokerage, and and so 540 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 2: that's that's one aspect of it. And I think secondly, 541 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 2: it's what what we do on the newsletter side. We 542 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 2: we curate the content, so we see what what all 543 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 2: the publications in the logistics industry put out, and we 544 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: find what's actually interesting for a typical freight brokers working 545 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 2: their job. And I think that what resonates a lot 546 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 2: with our audience is just being able to provide them 547 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 2: the information that they actually need, whether it's freight market, 548 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: maybe it's some industry drama, it's also some entertainment because 549 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: a lot of us, a lot of individuals follows just 550 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 2: like for the memes, but they also they want to 551 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 2: get a better understanding of the industry in a way 552 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: that doesn't kind of like show the industry in this 553 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 2: in this kind of strange light that's not really true 554 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,959 Speaker 2: because because I think a lot of it when you 555 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 2: go on a lot of other websites, maybe not websites, 556 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 2: but just like you go on different industry reports, you 557 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 2: feel like the person doesn't really get the industry. And 558 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 2: we have this lens that we get the industry and 559 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 2: we know our audience and we know what they want 560 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 2: and we cater that to them. And I think that's 561 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: what really resonated and still resonates with our audience today, 562 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 2: is that we get it. 563 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Most of the freight brooker companies that I visited 564 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: their set up almost like a Wall Street trading desk. 565 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: That's an open environment. People, rows of people, everyone kind 566 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: of dialing for dollars if you will, you know, busy 567 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: on the phone. So it's it's it's a I would. 568 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, because 569 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: you would know a lot better than I would. It's 570 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: really a sales culture. Yes, So who is or so 571 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: did you say you're about to publish your first magazine 572 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: or you just published your. 573 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 2: Released our first edition back in December, and our second 574 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 2: edition is currently in the print shop being printed, and 575 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 2: it is about fred Ali, about Chattanooga. So that's in December. 576 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 2: We did all that interviews with some legends in Chattanooga 577 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: and that's coming. 578 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: Out, Okay. So who was on the cover of your 579 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: your you know, your first edition. 580 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 2: Our first edition was Luther Binford. He is now a 581 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 2: ninety two year old truck driver from Texas. I interviewed 582 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 2: him last year in March on his ninety first birthday. 583 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 2: This is really a coincidence. I was in El Paso, 584 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: Texas for one day in March last year and I 585 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 2: went to go visit Messilla Valued Transportation, which is a 586 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: top five private fleet in the States, and I went 587 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 2: to go visit them, and they when I walk into 588 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 2: the office, they tell me that today they're celebrating their 589 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 2: driver's ninety first birthday, and so I was quite shocked. 590 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: I was luckily able to do an interview with Luther, 591 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: who has been driving, I believe for almost sixty years. 592 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 2: And luckily also Messia Valued Transportation has a photographer on 593 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: staff and he took some amazing photos of Luther. So 594 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 2: he's on the cover, the first one and the second 595 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 2: cover that's bring printer Right now. We have Clyde Fuller, 596 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 2: which is the father of Max Fuller, who founded us Express, 597 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 2: and he is the stepfather of David Parker who is 598 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: the founder of Covenant Logistics, and he is the grandfather 599 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 2: of Craig Foller, the founder and CEO of Freight Waves 600 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 2: and Sonar. And Clyde was the individual that kind of 601 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 2: initiated what today is known as freight Alley. 602 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: So what why do you think that Chattanooga, you know, 603 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: has grown Ay, you mentioned earlier that Chicago is kind of, 604 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, the center for the freight broker industry. What's 605 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: what's the attraction to Chattanooga? 606 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 2: You know, it's that's a that's a great question. I 607 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 2: think there's there's a few layers to answer this because 608 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 2: there's and there's a few aspects. So why why Chattanooga? 609 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 2: So geographically speaking, it's in this kind of interesting geographical position. 610 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: Let's just say, from from a transportation aspect, a lot 611 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 2: of freight moose or Chattanooga. I forgot the exact percentages. 612 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 2: I think we might have put like eighty percent of 613 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 2: like the freight like flows for Chattanooga. That might be 614 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 2: an exaggeration, but a large percentage of the freight in 615 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 2: the US flows through Chattanooga. Uh So that that's one 616 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 2: aspect of it. But but really what it is it's 617 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 2: the people in the city. So you have this city 618 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 2: that's right around two undred thousand people, so it's it's 619 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 2: not very large, but it's not also very small. And 620 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 2: you have this culture they have there. They're a strong 621 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 2: knit population. And so you had CLIVEE. Fuller who started 622 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 2: getting into trucking and then all of a sudden, Max 623 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 2: Fuller and and and David Parker who launched their own 624 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 2: trucking companies in Chattanooga and and and grew rapidly. This 625 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 2: was just this is like the golden age of trucking 626 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 2: right after deregulation, and he took advantage of it. And Craig, 627 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 2: when we interviewed him, said, there's there's basically like five 628 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 2: families and I think five parts of the region of 629 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,720 Speaker 2: sorry of the United States where you have these these 630 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 2: trucking companies that came out out of out of these 631 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 2: kind of like regional centers. You have Schneider and Green Bay, 632 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 2: you have Werner in Nebraska, you have the night Swift family, 633 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 2: and uh, there's a couple of other companies in Utah 634 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 2: and and so there, and most of I think most 635 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 2: of them are all public they're all publicly traded now 636 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 2: because there there was a time where where trucking companies 637 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 2: are actually I po ing and I don't. We haven't 638 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 2: seen an IPO from a trucking company in decades. But 639 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 2: you know, two to that point. Also, what Craig brought 640 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 2: up was, you know, Schneider, which is based out of 641 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 2: Green Bay, has I don't know. It's it's larger than 642 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 2: both US Express and Covenant combined. But green Bay is 643 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 2: not doesn't have like a freight I don't know hub 644 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 2: or a freight center. Uh, Like why And this is 645 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 2: what Craig brought up, was like, why isn't green Bay 646 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 2: freight alley or let just say, like similar to Chattanooga 647 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 2: when it comes to the concentration of individuals that work 648 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 2: in freight. And what he mentioned was that Schneider never 649 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 2: had a sale or at least had a transaction that 650 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 2: all of a sudden increased the wealth of their leg 651 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 2: just say population. That wasn't transportation industry. Because Access America, 652 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 2: which is a broker that was acquired by Coyote Logists 653 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen and it was founded by Ted Ailing. 654 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 2: We also enery Ted. They sold in twenty fourteen to 655 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 2: Coyote I believe for over one hundred million dollars in 656 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 2: cash and there was also some bonus. There's also some 657 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 2: some stock in Coyote and then Coyote was acquired by 658 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 2: UPS in twenty fifteen, so they essentially had they essentially 659 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 2: had two sales in two years when it comes to 660 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 2: the stock, and there was just a lot of capital 661 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 2: all of a sudden was available to these individuals in Chattanooga. 662 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,959 Speaker 2: And all these individuals love Chattanooga. None of them left. 663 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 2: They decided to stay there and build there and reinvest 664 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 2: into the community. And so Ted and you know, his 665 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 2: partners and others that were just part of Access America 666 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 2: started opening an own brokerages, started opening adjacent companies to 667 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 2: the logistics industry there too, and it just has grown. 668 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,839 Speaker 2: And you see this compounding in motion. And I think 669 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 2: that we're going to see a lot more of logistics 670 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,760 Speaker 2: and Chattanooga in years to come, because it's just basically 671 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 2: in motion right now, and there is so much capital 672 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 2: and individuals that are in this industry that want to 673 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 2: reinvest back into the community that it's only going to grow. 674 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: So we're coming up towards the end of our time here. 675 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 1: If you would, you know, what's been the most surprising 676 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: thing you learned? You know, while running freak Caviar. 677 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,720 Speaker 2: The most surprising thing that I learned running Free Cavier, 678 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 2: I think was the fact that you could build a 679 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 2: business off of memes. I wasn't I wasn't expecting that, 680 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,879 Speaker 2: And and then you know, there's there's so many opportunities. 681 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 2: And I left Everest, the brokerage I was at, because 682 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 2: I wanted to open my own brokerage. And I had this, 683 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 2: you know belief that it's I was director of operations, 684 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 2: and I felt like, oh, if I could do what 685 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 2: I'm doing right now, I could definitely run my own company. 686 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 2: As in logistics, and you know, logistics is it's a 687 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 2: tough industry. And in anyone that's that's run a brokerage, 688 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 2: that's had their own understands that there are so many 689 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 2: components to running a successful brokerage. And and I think that, 690 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 2: but at the same time, there's so many opportunities in 691 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 2: the logistics industry. It's a massive industry. I was I 692 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 2: was watching a Brad Jacobs interview from twenty fourteen just yesterday. 693 00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 2: It was it was on YouTube, it was actually on 694 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 2: Bloomberg and Brad Jacobs was discussing about this is back 695 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 2: when it was just still Express Wade and some of 696 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,399 Speaker 2: the acquisitions to use making and of how how big 697 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 2: the industry is, and so like, the industry is massive, 698 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 2: there's so many opportunities, various opportunities, and you continue to 699 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 2: see the evolution of of of what is happening or 700 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 2: or all the companies too, Like we have new tech 701 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,959 Speaker 2: players each year, we have new money from Silicon Valley 702 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 2: coming and especially with AI and so I find it 703 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,839 Speaker 2: to be a very fascinating industry. It's it's you could say, 704 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 2: like the oldest industry that exists, right, like because all 705 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 2: logistics is moving moving something from point A to point B, 706 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,919 Speaker 2: and and we're just seeing the evolution of of what 707 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 2: that looks like and the logistics of it. Also, I 708 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 2: find it super fascinating and like if I were just 709 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 2: simply answer the question, I think it's that we were 710 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 2: growing as a company. We're doing fun things. I'm having 711 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 2: a lot of fun uh, and now we're we have 712 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 2: this uh. We launched a magazine just to kind of 713 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 2: highlight more of those stories, like like we did with 714 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 2: fred Ali. I think there's a lot of stories that 715 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 2: aren't being told that are long form content. We want 716 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 2: to get away from all like kind of like the 717 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 2: short form algorithm kind of hacking stuff and more into 718 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 2: the long form. So I think that there's a lot 719 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 2: of opportunities for for anyone in the logistics and it's 720 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 2: an industry where you could be very creative because of 721 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 2: that because it's very big, and luckily I've been able 722 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 2: to kind of highlight some of the creativity that I 723 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 2: have and what our team does, uh and provide that 724 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 2: to the logistics industry. 725 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: And kind of one of my final questions here, what's 726 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: the biggest thing you miss about you know, being based 727 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: overseas and what do you miss about being here in 728 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:47,720 Speaker 1: the US? 729 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 2: I think Chipotle? Oh there we go? 730 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, I miss I means it is not 731 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: brought to you by Chipotle. 732 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,720 Speaker 2: But but I I'll be back. I'll be back in April. 733 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,759 Speaker 2: Now I'll be there for a few weeks. But I 734 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 2: mean I missed my family as well, my family and friends. 735 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 2: Fortunately I get I get to go back every few months, 736 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 2: so it's never for too long. 737 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 1: All right, great, And there's one last question before we go. 738 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: It's usually the last question I usually ask our guests. 739 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: Is there a book that you read that's kind of 740 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: resonated with you, whether it's on transportation, leadership or entrepreneurship 741 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: in your case. 742 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 2: So, we've been big fans of Frey Kivir, the book 743 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 2: Traction by Gina Wickman. We've been implementing the book for 744 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,320 Speaker 2: the last couple of years. It's definitely helped us internally 745 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 2: in terms of being on top of things. And I'm 746 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,280 Speaker 2: rereading right now The e Myth, which is a book 747 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 2: by Michael Gerber. These are just great books for us 748 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 2: when it comes from the point of view of being 749 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 2: able to build a company that's not really founder dependent. 750 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 2: And Frey Kiber has been very founder dependent since it's 751 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 2: since it began, but we're now moving into being a 752 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 2: company that's less and less founder dependent. 753 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: All right, great, Paul, I really appreciate the time. This 754 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: is a great conversation and it was good to get 755 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: to know you a little bit today. 756 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me Lee. 757 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: He also want to thank you for tuning in. If 758 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: you liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. 759 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: We've lined up a number of great guests for the podcast, 760 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: so please check to hear conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators, 761 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets. Also, if you 762 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: want to learn more about the freight transportation markets, check 763 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 1: out our work on the Bloomberg Terminal at Bigo and 764 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: on social media. Also want to thank our producers Mariam 765 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: Troure and Dda Somani for helping to pull this podcast together. 766 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: This is Lee Klasgow signing off. Thanks for talking transports 767 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: with me. Talk to you next week.