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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com. Good transition to what's actually going on down there, which,

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Speaker 3: as we said, is horrific to a point which like

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Speaker 3: it's a new level of destruction.

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Speaker 2: So, as Saga was saying, there has been just object

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Speaker 2: unimaginable horror unfolding in Gaza at the hands of the Israelis,

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Speaker 2: and we now actually have a whistleblower coming forward from

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Speaker 2: that so called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. This individual is a

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Speaker 2: twenty five year US military veteran who is sounding the

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Speaker 2: alarm about the horrific ways that Palestinians are being treated there.

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Speaker 2: Who are you know, starving to death and desperately trying

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Speaker 2: to seek any aid they can possibly get.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to a little bit of that.

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Speaker 5: Who has been deployed to commat clouds of times, four

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Speaker 5: different wars. I have never in my entire military career

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Speaker 5: have I been a part of allowed or backstandard to

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Speaker 5: the use of force against unarmed innocent civilians.

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Speaker 6: There is no fixing this. This needs to be putting

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Speaker 6: into it.

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Speaker 2: So this is from Israel's Channel twelve. And in addition

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Speaker 2: to what you heard there, he said that the aid

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Speaker 2: centers treated the population very badly, put them in danger.

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Speaker 2: He says, in all my years of service, I have

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Speaker 2: never seen such use of force. He described an incident

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Speaker 2: where an unarmed Palestinian was picking up food off the

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Speaker 2: ground on his knees and was pepper sprayed by American

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Speaker 2: guards with a full can of pepper spray. In another incident,

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Speaker 2: he talked about a stun grenade being thrown and hitting

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Speaker 2: a Palestinian woman directly. He says, quote she collapsed, fell

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Speaker 2: to the ground. That was the moment I knew I

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Speaker 2: couldn't continue. In another incident, he says that Palestinians finish

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Speaker 2: collecting the aid at the site, the American guards open fire,

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Speaker 2: shooting at them at their legs, at the dirt mounds

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Speaker 2: to force them to leave. He says, quote, you can't

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Speaker 2: fix this. It has to stop. In all my military service,

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Speaker 2: I have never seen such force used against unarmed civilians

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Speaker 2: and I will not be a part of it.

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Speaker 4: So he is coming forward.

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Speaker 2: And of course we've seen some one thousand plus Palestinians

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Speaker 2: who have been massacred while simply trying to seek aid.

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Speaker 2: It is as dystopian a situation as you could possibly imagine.

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Speaker 2: In fact, it's beyond my imagination how dystopian it is.

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Speaker 2: You are starving two million people to death. You have

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Speaker 2: now daily multiple deaths of children and infants because they

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Speaker 2: are being starved to death, and then you create this

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Speaker 2: deadly hunger game situation in order to get any sort

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Speaker 2: of aid. And it's not even the type of actual

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Speaker 2: nutritious aid that you would want to provide in this circumstance,

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Speaker 2: but people having to risk their lives and being fired

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Speaker 2: upon with live fire on again a near daily basis,

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Speaker 2: in order to secure what little bit of provisions are available.

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely unbelievable. And at the same time, we've got

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Speaker 2: one of our members of Congress here, can put C

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Speaker 2: two up on the screen. This is Randy Fine, who

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Speaker 2: is quote tweeting an ABC News article here about how

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Speaker 2: fifteen people, including four children have died have been starved

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Speaker 2: to death in just the last twenty four hours. And

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Speaker 2: he quote tweets that and says, release the hostages until

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Speaker 2: then starve away. Then in parentheses he says, this is

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Speaker 2: all a lie anyway.

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Speaker 4: It amazes me.

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Speaker 2: And the media continues to regurgitate Muslim terror propaganda. Now,

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Speaker 2: where is the media freak out over this? Oh I forgot.

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Speaker 2: They're too busy writing their five thousandth piece about what

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Speaker 2: Zoron Mamdani thinks about the phrase globalized the intefada.

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Speaker 4: Where's the censure from Congress over this?

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Speaker 2: Oh I forgot, They're too busy concerned about what was

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Speaker 2: the Rashida Juliab saying, like from the river to the sea.

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Speaker 2: It's just unbelievable that you have a member of Congress

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Speaker 2: who is saying jenocide these people effectively, that's what that means,

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Speaker 2: starve away, and it just is like an accepted part

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Speaker 2: of the discourse.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot going on in that tweet because

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Speaker 3: it's also it's not happening. But if it were happening,

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Speaker 3: it's good that it's and so which is it, Congressman.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, you know, we can make all the

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Speaker 3: fat jokes and all that stuff aside, but that almost

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Speaker 3: I think just what is happening is so horrific, just

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Speaker 3: the images, the conduct, the lies, and now at this

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Speaker 3: point the complicity. You have to ask, what possible reason

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Speaker 3: are we putting up with this? For every day, every hour,

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Speaker 3: every second is all underwritten by the United States.

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Speaker 1: Of America for what possible purpose? You know?

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Speaker 3: RFK Junior has not put out a personal tweet in

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Speaker 3: like months on any of the subject. And he just

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Speaker 3: responded to a article that's written, I'm a war war scholar,

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Speaker 3: there's no genocide in Gaza, and he writes the genocide

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Speaker 3: charge is a blood libel major for withering. Just so

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Speaker 3: it's like, oh my god, he reared his ugly head

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Speaker 3: for what for what reason? To just it's look, I

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Speaker 3: don't know what it is, all right, it could be blackmail.

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Speaker 3: I think it's probably just like a deep ideological I

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Speaker 3: have no idea about this psycha.

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Speaker 1: This psychopathy.

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Speaker 3: It runs deep at this point, and at a certain

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Speaker 3: point we just all have to look at this and

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Speaker 3: be like, this is unconscionable, unbelievable, it's evil, and like

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Speaker 3: the way that they get away with it and then

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Speaker 3: have their defenders in our country tell us it's an

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Speaker 3: anti Semitic blood libel for mentioning it's too much, yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: I mean it has to break us forever from the

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Speaker 3: chains of all of this anti Semitism industrial complex because

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Speaker 3: they don't care about that. They're using it as a

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Speaker 3: cover to literally murder little children and women and starve

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Speaker 3: them to death, to lure them to food, and to

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Speaker 3: gun them down with impunity. And that's the other thing

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Speaker 3: that I think really devises this from some of the

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Speaker 3: earlier conduct of the war, because they always had at

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Speaker 3: that time the excuse is what it's all because of them.

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Speaker 3: They're using them as there's nothing about that. Right now,

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Speaker 3: right you already level the whole place, you're attacking the

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Speaker 3: last city, and you're starving these people to death by

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Speaker 3: your own admission, literally, by your own admission.

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Speaker 1: There's no getting around this.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, man, This is dark stuff, as dark

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Speaker 3: as you can't it doesn't even give the voice like

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Speaker 3: the proper picture right to say dark is almost like,

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Speaker 3: oh it's dark when something.

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Speaker 1: Bad, It's like, no, man, like this is a whole

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 4: It recalls the greatest horrors in history.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you can't see those images of those skeletal,

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Speaker 2: dead babies and not think about Auschwitz. You can't look

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Speaker 2: at those images and not be reminded of the greatest

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Speaker 2: failures and horrors.

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Speaker 4: Of humanity of the past.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I mean this is where people who

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Speaker 2: want to dismiss the Epstein story, like, sorry to tie

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Speaker 2: it back to that, but it is the reason that

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Speaker 2: we're cool with this. Is it because they have some

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Speaker 2: sort of a blackmaile on the President of the United

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Speaker 2: States or RFK Junior.

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Speaker 4: Or whoever, Like why would you allow this to persist?

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Speaker 1: It is.

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Speaker 2: Humanity will not be the same in the wake of this.

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Speaker 2: And you know, everybody who said starve away, who justifide this,

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Speaker 2: They're going to have to answer in the history books.

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Speaker 2: But that's called comfort to Palestinians who are starving to

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Speaker 2: death literally right now today as we speak. Of course,

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Speaker 2: the Israeli government and this is going to be c

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Speaker 2: five guys, they claim that there is no famine in Gaza,

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Speaker 2: that this is all just lies, and that us even

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Speaker 2: talking about this is quote unquote playing into the hands

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Speaker 2: of Hummas.

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Speaker 4: Let's go ahead and take a listen to this.

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Speaker 7: This idea of famine and starvation has been thrown at

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Speaker 7: us consistently on a weekly basis for the last two

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Speaker 7: years now. It has never come to our pass. So

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Speaker 7: these are our false warnings which come from these aid organizations.

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Speaker 7: And I also would say that where there is hunger

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Speaker 7: in Gaza, it is hunger orchestrated by Hamas. This is

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Speaker 7: very clearly their tactic and it is working because Hammas

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Speaker 7: seeks to put international pressure which unfortunately too many international

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Speaker 7: countries are too willing to follow suit on to put

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Speaker 7: pressure on Israel to support their negotiating tactics, stopping them

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Speaker 7: initiating or agreeing to a hostage release pause. So this

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Speaker 7: pressure which is coming calling it talking about starvation and famine,

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Speaker 7: this is simply playing into Harmasa's hands. Where there is hunger,

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Speaker 7: it is hunger orchestrated by her Mus. It is hunger

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Speaker 7: created by the terrorist organization.

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Speaker 2: Hunger orchestrated by Hamas. Like who believes this shit? How

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Speaker 2: do people like this sleep at night?

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Speaker 4: Truly?

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Speaker 2: Truly, and he says, oh, we've been hearing this for

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Speaker 2: two years now. Yeah, because the Defense Minister you'll have

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Speaker 2: go on on October ninth announced I have ordered a

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Speaker 2: complete siege on the Gaza Strip.

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Speaker 4: There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything

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Speaker 4: is closed.

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Speaker 2: We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.

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Speaker 2: That was on October ninth. Now at time aid has

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Speaker 2: been delivered. This is the most die right now that

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Speaker 2: it has ever been. Right now, there is truly a

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Speaker 2: complete siege and the only aid that anyone really has

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Speaker 2: access to is through this Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, where you

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Speaker 2: go and you might get a bag of flower or

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Speaker 2: you might be murdered by the IDF. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: is just unreal that anyone could claim otherwise at this point,

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Speaker 2: and that this is allowed to persist. At the same time,

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Speaker 2: you know, there it's easy to lose sight of what's

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Speaker 2: happening in the West Bank, where there's been also an

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Speaker 2: extraordinary escalation of violence and you know, annexing, stealing of land.

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Speaker 2: They just took a significant vote in the Knesset with

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Speaker 2: regard to annexing the West Bank.

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Speaker 4: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

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Speaker 8: There are two things that you need to know about this. One,

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Speaker 8: the vote doesn't actually do anything. It's a non binding motion,

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Speaker 8: it has no legal power, and they did it is

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Speaker 8: to unite the Israeli rights around something that they agree

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Speaker 8: on because they've been fighting for a very long time

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Speaker 8: over whether to conscript the ultra Orthodox community into the army.

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Speaker 8: So it makes for nice headlines, but it doesn't actually

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Speaker 8: do anything on the ground. And two, the West Bank

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Speaker 8: is already to facto annexed and it has been for

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Speaker 8: a very long time. Israel has controlled the West Bank

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Speaker 8: completely for almost seventy years now, and even in Area A,

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Speaker 8: which is supposed to be under Palestinian authority, Israel practically

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Speaker 8: has all the power. They control the checkpoints, they control

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Speaker 8: the energy, they control the taxes, and whenever they want,

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Speaker 8: they can just invade it with the army, as they

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Speaker 8: often do. So de facto we are living in a

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Speaker 8: one apartheid state solution.

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Speaker 2: So that is independent journalist Andre explaining, you know what

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Speaker 2: the details of this vote are and the relevant political

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Speaker 2: context here, and I think it's important to understand what

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Speaker 2: he says, which is, you know, this idea that there's

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Speaker 2: sovereigny sort of palaestinae. Sovereignty in the West Bank already

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Speaker 2: is a mythology, and now they're just moving to you know,

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Speaker 2: further codify and further in trench and also to sort

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Speaker 2: of like round up support on the right because there

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Speaker 2: are these various contentious issues that have sort of divided

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Speaker 2: the Lukud majority governing party coalition, and so this is

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Speaker 2: a way to bring everyone together, to really unify everyone

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Speaker 2: around the idea of just outright stealing all of the

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Speaker 2: West Bank.

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Speaker 3: What's also really funny, too, is that we forgot to

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Speaker 3: mention this C three police that even the American Jewish

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Speaker 3: Committee condemned Randy Fine. They said, the serious humanitarian situation

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Speaker 3: must not be taken lightly implying that starvation is a

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Speaker 3: legitimate tactic is unacceptable. All those should be need of

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Speaker 3: humanitarian agent receive it promptly and safely.

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Speaker 6: Quote.

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Speaker 3: Our leaders must focus less on scoring political points and

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Speaker 3: more on doing their jobs. Of course, they would you

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Speaker 3: deny that, they would deny that this is actually even happening,

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Speaker 3: and that they would probably put the blame like that

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Speaker 3: on Hamas.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the point still stands around all of this.

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Speaker 6: It's not.

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Speaker 3: This is the thing about the belligerents and the actions

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Speaker 3: in Gaza, which are unforgivable, insane, backstop by the US government.

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Speaker 3: It's also part of this broader Greater Israel project, which

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Speaker 3: I look, conspiracy theorists have been talking about there for years.

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Speaker 3: It's real now, Yeah, Gaza, Lebanon, Darius.

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Speaker 1: Syria, this shit is real. Guys.

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Speaker 3: They're bombing Damascus, They're claiming an indefinite presence, They're annexing

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Speaker 3: the West Bank, like it's happening right now. You know,

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Speaker 3: just this morning is really ulternationalist minister quote, all of

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Speaker 3: Gaza will be Jewish. The government is pushing for Gaza

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Speaker 3: being wiped out. Thank god, we are wiping out this evil.

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Speaker 3: We are pushing the population educated on my listen to

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Speaker 3: this shit. We are wiping out the population.

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Speaker 1: It will be Jewish. They say this shit out loud.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: This is my always problem with America, Like we're all

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Speaker 3: focused on it's like listen, all right, we can all

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Speaker 3: hit the Google Translate button.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 3: This all takes to actually see the stuff that they're

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Speaker 3: saying on cable television in Israel and here as well.

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Speaker 3: And it's just like, oh my god, like you're genuinely

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Speaker 3: watching this almost like neo colonialist project backstopped entirely by

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Speaker 3: the American Empire.

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Speaker 1: For what possible purpose?

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Speaker 3: You have the humanitarian and then the security situation, it

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Speaker 3: would be different. I think if this were I don't know,

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Speaker 3: if this were two countries that were fighting of their

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Speaker 3: own accord, you know, that had their independent ability to

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Speaker 3: inflict this type of horrificness on each other. That's one thing, right,

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Speaker 3: and that calls for a tool set, but it's really

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Speaker 3: another when you're selling people the technology, the bombs, giving

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Speaker 3: them money to continue it, and then also using the

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Speaker 3: full force of the empire to make sure that they

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Speaker 3: bear no consequences for it. Yeah, like the United States

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Speaker 3: withdrawing from UNESCO or whatever from the UN body, accusing

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Speaker 3: them of anti sentence. If we're talking about the humanitarian situation, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean that stuff really does.

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Speaker 2: Matter, and cracking down on the domestic population fear that's

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Speaker 2: over what we can say and do and who's allowed

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Speaker 2: to get a college degree if you dared speak out

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Speaker 2: against these absolute atrocities, and then I can't let this go,

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Speaker 2: you know. I was looking at the New York Times

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Speaker 2: front page. And on the one hand, okay, they're covering

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Speaker 2: the fact that people are starving to death, but there

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Speaker 2: is still no culpability assigned. I mean, the first of all,

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Speaker 2: this is barely this is not getting remotely enough coverage

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Speaker 2: throughout the process. And as I said before, they're way

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Speaker 2: more fixated on like how hard Zoron will condemn this

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Speaker 2: or that particular phrase, or what some rally chant was

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Speaker 2: or whatever. Here's their headline, Gossins are dying of starvation.

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Speaker 2: Severe hunger has gripped the war torn Palestinian enclave, where

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Speaker 2: growing numbers of people are starving and the doctors treating

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Speaker 2: them are working on empty stomachs. Guess what's not mentioned there?

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Speaker 2: The fact that it's Israel who is starving them. And

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Speaker 2: as you read through this, it takes to paragraph one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,

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Speaker 2: It takes to like the tenth paragraph before the word

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Speaker 2: Israel is even mentioned. I mean, it's a parody at

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Speaker 2: this point. And I know you guys have seen probably

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Speaker 2: the way that you know the headlines are like barely

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Speaker 2: English to have these passive, weird phrase constructions to avoid

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Speaker 2: assigning blame. Imagine it was Russia that was starving Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that The New York Times would have

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Speaker 2: a hard time figuring out how to phrase that headline,

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Speaker 2: how to cover that story, how to talk about it

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Speaker 2: in the clear moral and factual terms that are justified.

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Speaker 2: Of course not, of course it would not be any

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Speaker 2: sort of an issue there. And so look, you know,

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Speaker 2: the situation is dire enough that they feel that they

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Speaker 2: have to cover it. It is, you know, the top

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Speaker 2: of their website right now. But even so severe hunger grips,

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Speaker 2: Gaza grips, as if that just happened down of nowhere,

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Speaker 2: as if it's some sort of natural disaster, unavoidable calamity.

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Speaker 2: It's just unbelievable at this point, it's just unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sick. I don't think there's really another word

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Speaker 1: for it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: We put C six up there on the screen. I mean, look,

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Speaker 3: you know warning images. It's just hard to see.

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Speaker 1: Quote.

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Speaker 3: We faced hunger before, but never like this, Skeletal children,

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Speaker 3: feel hospital a wards as starvation grips Gaza.

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Speaker 1: Ryan made a great point whenever him and.

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Speaker 3: I did the show, is that the timeline laid out

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Speaker 3: by these food organizations and almost exactly correct about sixty.

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Speaker 3: It takes about sixty to seventy days to starve to death.

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Speaker 3: Sixty seventy days ago, they were like, hey, people are

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Speaker 3: gonna starve to death if there's no change in the

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Speaker 3: status quo.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, here we are. I don't know at this point.

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Speaker 3: I know there's some potential movement or whatever on a ceasefire,

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Speaker 3: but considering what's happened in the previous sease fires, like,

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Speaker 3: they're not dying of bullets at this point, right, You're

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Speaker 3: dying of severe malnutrition. Even in those previous ceasefires. It's

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Speaker 3: not like there was a ton of humanitarian aid you

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Speaker 3: know that got into Gaza, So there's no And also,

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Speaker 3: you know, once you get to the severe malnutrition, you're

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Speaker 3: your rife for disease type you know whatever. A mere

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Speaker 3: cold can take you out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and when you're that to a certain point too,

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Speaker 2: where it's not just like Okay, there's food of it,

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Speaker 2: you need specialize treatment.

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Speaker 4: And you know, the.

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Speaker 2: Ones who are dying the most rapidly, it's it's these infants.

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Speaker 2: It's these babies. The mothers are too weak to breastfeed.

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Speaker 2: They're dependent on formula. There's no formula. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: have a baby at holl like, yeah, I know, you

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Speaker 2: can't you.

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Speaker 1: My kid is sick and my wife is sick.

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Speaker 3: So I literally like, and we're living in the most

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Speaker 3: developed country in the world, with access to food and

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Speaker 3: all of them. This ship's still hard. So you put

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Speaker 3: yourself in message.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I genuinely can't even really fully go there

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Speaker 2: because I cannot even imagine that level of horror.

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Speaker 4: And that's what's happening.

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Speaker 2: All right, Let's make a hard turn this friggin lawsuit

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Speaker 2: against Candae Owens.

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Speaker 4: Let's put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: So the first family of France is suing Candie Owans

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Speaker 2: over her allegations corps, among them that the first Lady

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Speaker 2: of France, Brigitte Macron, is actually was actually born a

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Speaker 2: man and is transgender and at the age of thirty

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Speaker 2: transition to being a woman and is hiding this from

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Speaker 2: the world. Let me go ahead and read this a

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Speaker 2: little bit of this New York Times article. So they

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Speaker 2: say the French president Emanuel Macron and his wife Brigitte

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Speaker 2: mcrol filed a defamation suit on Wednesday against an American

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Speaker 2: right wing podcaster who falsely claim Miss Macron is a man.

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Speaker 2: The lawsuit filed in Delaware against the podcaster Candie Owens,

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Speaker 2: argues that miss Owens use false claims about the Macrons

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Speaker 2: to promote her independent platform, gain notoriety, and make money.

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Speaker 2: In a filing running more than two hundred pages, the

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Speaker 2: Macrons are suing for twenty two counts of defamation and

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Speaker 2: related claims and are seeking actual and punitive damages. The

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Speaker 2: amount was not specified, as well as legal costs. The

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Speaker 2: battle began in March twenty twenty four, when, according to

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Speaker 2: the lawsuit, miss Owens co quote told the world she

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Speaker 2: would stake her entire professional reputation on the accusation that

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Speaker 2: miss mcrol is in fact a man. Miss Owens made

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Speaker 2: the claim on her podcast, then carried by The Daily

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Speaker 2: Wire and repeated it in a post on X and

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Speaker 2: this series that Candace did called Becoming Brigitte it got

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Speaker 2: it was a sensation. I mean, it got millions of views.

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Speaker 2: I think we have the first page of the lawsuit

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Speaker 2: here that you can see. This was what was filed

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Speaker 2: in court and details a little bit of you know

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Speaker 2: what the allegations are. I mean, listen, I dug into that. Well,

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Speaker 2: let me first play a little bit of Candace here.

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Speaker 2: So you can hear you know, her response, and then

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Speaker 2: I can tell you what I learned in digging into

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Speaker 2: some of these claims and whether there was any veracity.

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Speaker 2: You know, spoiler alert, there's not. Let's go ahead and

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Speaker 2: take a listen to Candace responding on her show yesterday.

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Speaker 9: If you need any more evidence that Brigitte Macrone is

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Speaker 9: definitely a man, it is just what is happening right now.

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Speaker 1: The idea that you would.

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Speaker 9: File this lawsuit is all of the proof that you need.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 9: I have been in communication with their lawyers or via

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Speaker 9: our lawyers, like their lawyers and my lawyers have been

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00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 9: speaking phone calls, emails since January. She's now named her

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Speaker 9: law firm. I protected that, but now we can tell

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Speaker 9: you it's Claire Lock. Okay. Claire Lock is representing Brigitte

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Speaker 9: and emmanuelma Cron. Has been in communication with us for months,

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Speaker 9: and yet they did not send us a copy of

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Speaker 9: a lawsuit. They did not give my lawyer a heads

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Speaker 9: up that they were following a lawsuit.

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Speaker 1: But they did instead.

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Speaker 9: Opt to give this lawsuit ahead of time to the

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Speaker 9: Financial Times, The New York Times, CBS News. What does

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Speaker 9: that tell you? It's a pr strategy. They don't care

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Speaker 9: if they win. This is about running it through the

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Speaker 9: press and how much pr are we talking here? Yeah,

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Speaker 9: Claire Lock, Tom Lock or Tom Claire or whatever his

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Speaker 9: name is. They actually uploaded the lawsuit to their website

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Speaker 9: and then they gave CBS News a link to the

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Speaker 9: uploaded lawsuit before I had been served, before my lawyer

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Speaker 9: was even informed about it. I found out with all

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Speaker 9: of you.

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Speaker 1: I found out with the World.

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Speaker 9: I found out from the Financial Times, But they were

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Speaker 9: unwilling for some reason to allow us to fly to

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Speaker 9: France to interview Brigitte, which we offered to do before

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Speaker 9: we started the series. They were also unwilling to simply

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Speaker 9: answer our yes or no questions that we emailed to

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Speaker 9: them so that we could ascertain facts. We did all

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Speaker 9: of this before we aired the first episode.

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Speaker 2: So the core claim here, Sager, as I said, is

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Speaker 2: that Brigitte Macron was born a man. There are other

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Speaker 2: allegations made as well, that Emmanuel Macron was installed as

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Speaker 2: president through some sort of aciamk Ltra style mind control.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he does, and there are all kinds of I

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Speaker 2: don't know what other claims are made, some like sketchy

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Speaker 2: associations to this or that, but the one about her

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Speaker 2: being a man. Where this comes from is there were

439
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 2: some French bloggers and a quote unquote clairvoyant who based

440
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 2: this allegation effectively off the fact that Brigitte Macron has

441
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: a brother, and there's a picture of her brother when

442
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: he's a child that looks a lot like Brigitte lo

443
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 2: and behold, it turns out sometimes siblings kind of resemble

444
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 2: each other because they have the same parents. In reality,

445
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 2: Brigitte Macron, they've released her birth certificate, pictures of her

446
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 2: as a child, she has three children, etcetera, etcetera. But

447
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 2: you know this has now because this series was such

448
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: a sensation in some right wing circles, has become almost

449
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 2: like an article of faith. And so that's where this

450
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: lawsuit ultimately comes from. And you know, on the legal

451
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 2: piece piece, Goo, who we've had on before, he told

452
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 2: me he was like digging into the legal aspect, I'm

453
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 2: curious what he'll his take will be because he's he's

454
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 2: pretty good at parsing these things, calling balls and strike

455
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: as he sees them.

456
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: The standard is very high.

457
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: You have to either demonstrate like a reckless disregard for

458
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: the truth, which I think is a standard they might

459
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 2: be able to meet or to prove, or that she

460
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: knew and you know intentionally lie.

461
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 3: I can read from it, go ahead what section three

462
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: of the no of the lawsuits. These claims are demonstrably false,

463
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 3: and Owens knew they were false when she published them,

464
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 3: yet she published them anyway.

465
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 1: The reason is clear. It's not pursuit of truth, the

466
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: pursuit of fame.

467
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 3: Quote after being fired from The Daily War, she used

468
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 3: these demonstrably false claims to promote her independent podcasts. And

469
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 3: then they note the number of the number of followers

470
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 3: that she gained after following. Now, the reason they framed

471
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 3: that specifically is because that is the legal standard.

472
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: Now, from what I.

473
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 2: Have read, she did, by the way, she got a

474
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: lot of pangs this she made. She made a lot

475
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: of money and got a lot of notarize.

476
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 3: I will say, I mean, I don't think, I think

477
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 3: that's definitely true, But like I wouldn't say that.

478
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: It's like the totality of.

479
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 3: What she's more recently known for, which is like Israel.

480
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 3: Oh sure, a lot of her popularity. She's also big,

481
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: I agree, but this is part of where the financial

482
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: things come.

483
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: She's filthy rich already.

484
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 3: All right, she's married to like a billionaire, so you

485
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: know it's like, is it really monetary perhaps as they

486
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 3: say it is fame.

487
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: The legal standard is very tough.

488
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 3: The one thing going against Candace actually is people need

489
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 3: to remember she's a Delaware LLC. And this is some

490
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: of the talk that I've seen online is that this

491
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 3: is going to be litigated in Delaware state court, specifically

492
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 3: around like in terms of the way that it was

493
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: filed against her.

494
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: And that the standard there.

495
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 3: A lot of people are pointing to remember that Elon

496
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 3: situation in terms of the way that the state courts

497
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 3: there can rule or not as pro business as they

498
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 3: originally were, and the way that this all works out.

499
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: And this is part of why I'm not a lawyer.

500
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm only relying.

501
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,479
Speaker 3: On two I've looked at actually two separate conservative lawyers

502
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: people who looked at this. That guy Will Chamberlain who

503
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: had on the show. He says he thinks the canvas

504
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 3: is going down and is going to be owing a

505
00:25:59,119 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 3: large fony.

506
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 4: He does hate her though, Yeah.

507
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm framing it as he said that. Mike Sternovich,

508
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 3: also is a lawyer, looked at it and he was like,

509
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 3: you know, actually the legal standard here is a little

510
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 3: bit different. The only reason she may go down is

511
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: because she did in Delaware State court. If this was

512
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 3: in California or elsewhere, you know, the legal standard is

513
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 3: such that it would be very difficult. The thing is, though,

514
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: is that the damages that they're claiming here are also

515
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 3: really tough for somebody who's a first lady, because they

516
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: say that she's been inflicted. Let me, let me find it.

517
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 3: These lives have caused tremendous damage to the Macrones defendants,

518
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 3: subjected them to a campaign of global humiliation, turning their

519
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: lives into fodder for for profit driven lies. Always has

520
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 3: dissected their appearance, their marriage, their friends, their family, and

521
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,719
Speaker 3: their personal history, twisting in a grotesque narrative to inflame

522
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 3: into degrade. The result is relentless bullying on a worldwide scale.

523
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 3: I just think that's a very high bar. You know,

524
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 3: in terms of when we talk about public figure, there

525
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 3: is nobody more public than the president and the first

526
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 3: lady of another country.

527
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

528
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: I mean, look we can say here about Donald Trump

529
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 3: or and everybody can. I think that's the way that

530
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 3: it should be. So the ability to prove damages here,

531
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 3: I think would be incredibly difficult, you know, which for

532
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: the lawyers to be able to target.

533
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: Again I'm not a lawyer, but having looked, you know, read.

534
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 3: A couple and I've specifically tried to seek out like

535
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 3: two kind of conservatives or whatever who we're talking about this,

536
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 3: I think it's iffy in terms of the way that

537
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 3: comes out, in terms of the evidence. Like you said, yeah,

538
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 3: it seems to rely on this blog. By the way,

539
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 3: I have not watched Becoming Brigitte. I don't particularly want to.

540
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 3: It's not it's not what I appreciate Candice for which

541
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 3: is are Israel commentary, But broadly, I mean, I don't know,

542
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 3: I don't know what you think of this. I think

543
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: it was a streisand effect personally from Bridget from Brigitte Macron.

544
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: You're the fucking first lady of France, like you got

545
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 3: bigger problems, you know, Is this really something that strikes

546
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: at the heart of of like your personal you know,

547
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: narrative and all of that.

548
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't, I just I can't believe if

549
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: I had to gas skin lady. But if I have

550
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: to gas, remember there was that whole thing that went

551
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: viral of like her like slapping on whatever. And I

552
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 2: think that brought back up because when it becoming Brigitte

553
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 2: that was posted.

554
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,479
Speaker 4: I don't know, urgo whatever.

555
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: It's been a while back, but I think that brought

556
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: all of this back up. And so they probably decided

557
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: because I'm sure they, you know, are aware of the

558
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 2: strides in effect and how this will draw more attention

559
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: I want to extra interactions or whatever. They probably got

560
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: to the point where they're like, Okay, well, you know

561
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 2: this has gone beyond. This has become like a widespread

562
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 2: accepted phenomena, and what other recourse do we have than

563
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: to like fight back and prove this in court. Now,

564
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 2: she had sued to these two individuals in France originally

565
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: surfaced these claims, and originally they sided the courts in

566
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: France sided with her on her defamation suit in France,

567
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: and then it was overturned on appeal basically because they

568
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 2: found that like, oh, you know, we believe that this

569
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: was done in good faith and they didn't really know

570
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: that they were like lying and making it.

571
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: They have a different standards too, about you. In France,

572
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: they have a very very different libel.

573
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: Definitely, yeah, And I'm not not an expert on that

574
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: standard either. But that's what This isn't the first lawsuit

575
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: that she's launched surrounding these claims. I will also just say, like,

576
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: there's this whole phenomenon like putting in Candice in Brigitte

577
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: and how you feel about them and this whole particular situation, right,

578
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: there's this whole like transvestigation phenomenon that I found disgusting.

579
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 2: And I find it discussing as a woman because it's

580
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: just basically all about like policing.

581
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 4: Whether or not as you look womanly.

582
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: Enough, like you fit the societal exploited x, you know,

583
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: expectations of what a woman is supposed to look like

584
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: and vice versa for you know, for the men of

585
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: like are you manly enough, is your jawlines strong enough?

586
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: What do you look like over the years? Let me

587
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: like do this whole thing. And so I find it

588
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: very damaging. I find it very damaging to men. I

589
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: find it very damaging to women, And you know, I

590
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: think it's a truly disgusting thing to ultimately engage in

591
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: because like, let's say that Brigite macron Is was born

592
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: a man and is is transgend Like I don't give

593
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: a fuck, I don't care. How is this relevant to

594
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 2: my life, to Candas's life, to your life? Like, I

595
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: don't care. So that's the the other thing that I

596
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 2: would say. It's totally fair that I would say I.

597
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: Haven't thought about that.

598
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, I can't really relate to it or whatever.

599
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 3: But it makes sense. I wouldn't want to necessarily be dissected.

600
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was santing to pick you apart. Oh you're

601
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 4: not this, You're not that, you know.

602
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a it's a disgusting thing to do

603
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: and to engage in.

604
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 3: I guess what part of me is Do you think

605
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 3: what really gets her is all of this A like

606
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 3: the circumstances of you guys getting together is sketchy Because

607
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: I was thinking about that too. That may be one

608
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 3: of the more personal aspects where by the way, I

609
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 3: think Candas is correct in terms of their original relationship

610
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 3: where your school teacher and all of that. By the way,

611
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: when I went to I went to the town where

612
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 3: Macron is run in Amien, and it's the talk of

613
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: the town. Let's just say that in terms of the

614
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: way that they that they all joke about it. They're like, oh,

615
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 3: Macron this is where he met his wife and all

616
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: of this, so like it's a joke in France, just

617
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: so people know. I don't know, I mean, perhaps like

618
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: that's the gossip. Apparently there was a report that Donald

619
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 3: Trump called Candace and he was like, you need to

620
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: drop this whole bridge Macron. Yeah, she said that. He's like,

621
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: if you drop this, what did he say? He's like,

622
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 3: then I'll give you an interview. And he's like, I've

623
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 3: met her, darling, She's a woman. I promise you one hundred.

624
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 3: So I'm assuming then that maybe the mac Crohnes asked

625
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: Trump to intervene on their behalf.

626
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: That was her, that was her belief. Yea, they was

627
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: going to call her for no reason. Yeah, and then

628
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: the last piece we could put up here D four

629
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: on the screen is her original like, I will stake

630
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: my whole reputation.

631
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: Well she's done it now, so you know.

632
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you did it, girl, you put it out there.

633
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: This episode is blowing up, she says. So I just

634
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: want to say, after looking into this, I would stake

635
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: my entire professional reputation on the fact that Brigitte Macron

636
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: is in fact a man. Any journalist or publication that

637
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: is trying to dismiss this plausibility is immediately identifiable as establishment.

638
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like this in my life. The

639
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: implications here are terrifying. I do not intend to let

640
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: up on this story. I'm calling on other journalists to

641
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: look into this explosive story and report accordingly.

642
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 3: So all right, well, Kansas's point. I guess we'll find

643
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 3: out in discovery. But that's part of why it's humiliating.

644
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: First, she may, I mean she may end up settling.

645
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: She may, but I think that'll be given how hard

646
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: she's gone, it would be embarrassing.

647
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 3: For you and how filthy rich she is, right, Like

648
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 3: you can burn money in a pile. Like the main

649
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 3: reason people settle is because they don't want to spend

650
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: any money. But if you're that rich, Like, what incentive

651
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 3: do you have?

652
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: I have no idea.

653
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: I mean for if you're This kind of gets to

654
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 3: the point about Trump. It's like, Bridgie Macrone, you really

655
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: want to settle this by taking a fucking blood test

656
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 3: and submitting it to Delaware Superior Court. Like that's humiliating

657
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: to me.

658
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 4: Like as the for refresh, I think she already feels humiliated.

659
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know you know, I mean, what other

660
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: records does she have at this time. At a certain point,

661
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: you get here like okay, you have to like, you know,

662
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: you can like ignore it for so long and then

663
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 2: it's like, all right, I guess I have to fight back.

664
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 4: I have no choice.

665
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: We'll see.

666
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 3: I'm I'm wondering how the story's playing in France. I

667
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 3: actually wonder what they think over there.

668
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: Joining us now is Isaac Sahal.

669
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: He is the executive editor over at Tangle News, and

670
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 3: for our purposes, he has done all of the reading

671
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 3: into the new Obama Gate scandal, and so what's there?

672
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 3: What's there there? There's been a lot of claims from

673
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 3: the Trump administration. Yesterday, the Director of National Intelligence, Telsey Gabbard,

674
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: took to the White House podium and told our own

675
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 3: Emily Jashinski that she would pursue or refer criminal charges

676
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 3: against former President Obama regarding this matter.

677
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to that, and then we will

678
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: dig into it with you.

679
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: Isaac, do you believe that any of this new information

680
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 3: implicates former President Obama and criminal behavior?

681
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 10: We have referred and we'll continue to refer all of

682
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 10: these documents to the Department of Justice. And the FBI

683
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 10: to investigate the criminal implications of this for even the

684
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 10: evidence Obama correct. The evidence that we have found and

685
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 10: that we have released directly point to President Obama leading

686
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 10: the manufacturing of this intelligence assessment. There are multiple pieces

687
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 10: of evidence and intelligence that confirm that fact.

688
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 11: Head, go ahead, Jerk or Galwick.

689
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 9: Thank you.

690
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 3: So, just.

691
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 11: Two questions to begin on that the president. Yesterday you've

692
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 11: inferred that the former president help lead to coup. Based

693
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 11: on what you now see, do you believe President Obama

694
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 11: is guilty of treason?

695
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 10: I'm leaving the criminal charges to the Department of Justice.

696
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 10: I am not an attorney, but as I've said previously,

697
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 10: when you look at the intent behind creating a fake,

698
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 10: manufactured intelligence document that directly contradicts multiple assessments that were

699
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 10: created by the intelligence community, the expressed intent and what

700
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 10: followed afterward can only be described as a year's long

701
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 10: coup and a treason. His conspiracy against the the American

702
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 10: people are republic and an attempt to undermine President Trump's administration.

703
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: All right, Isaac, So let's go and put this graphic

704
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 1: up on the screen.

705
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: It was released here by Tulsea Gabbard and the Trump administration,

706
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: and this is what they've put together. Now, given all

707
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 3: the reading, start from the beginning, tell us what's going

708
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 3: on here, what's the core allegation?

709
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 12: Yeah, so, I mean the core allegation is basically that

710
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 12: there was this House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence report

711
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 12: which was done, you know, twenty seventeen and edited up

712
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 12: until twenty twenty that kind of analyzed an intelligence community

713
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 12: assessment that was released by the Obama administration in January

714
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 12: of twenty seventeen, and we did not have access to

715
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 12: the HPSCI for a long time.

716
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 6: It kind of got buried.

717
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 12: And what Tulsa Gabber the D and I released this

718
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 12: week yesterday was basically the goods on that report, what

719
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 12: it found. And to be clear, I think a lot

720
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 12: of what was in the report was previously known information.

721
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 12: It is things like the Obama administration, you know, CIA

722
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 12: officials relied on pretty shoddy intelligence that was you know, manufactured,

723
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 12: I think is a pretty strong word, but at least

724
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 12: was ginned up to make it look like Trump was

725
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 12: very much in the pocket of Russia. The way the

726
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 12: intelligence was released and leaked to news organizations sort of

727
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 12: created this circular ecosystem where news reports were feeding the

728
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 12: intelligence community. The intelligence community was feeding the news reports.

729
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 12: They were applying for FISA Warrens using news reports, and

730
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 12: you know, they used all this to surveil a person

731
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 12: who ended up becoming the United States President. This is

732
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 12: a really big deal. I don't want to downplay the

733
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 12: fact that what happened in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen was

734
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 12: not a big deal.

735
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 6: I think it was.

736
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 12: That being said the same report that Tulsa Gabbard's citing here.

737
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 12: I mean literally, if you go read the report that

738
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 12: she released yesterday, on the very first page of the report,

739
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 12: it says things like most of the judgments on Russia's

740
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 12: activities in the US election employed proper analytic tradecraft and

741
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 12: were consistent with observed Russian behavior. It says that the

742
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 12: key judgments found to be credible include that Putin ordered

743
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 12: conventional and cyber influence operations. I mean, I'm reading directly

744
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 12: from the report, notably by leaking politically sensitive emails obtained

745
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 12: from computer intrusions, which was the DNC hack. So you know,

746
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 12: Putin's principal motivations in these operations were to undermine faith

747
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 12: in the US democratic process and to weaken what the

748
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 12: Russians considered to be an inevitable Clinton presidency. So it

749
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 12: requires people holding two things in their mind at once,

750
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 12: which I think is one, that the investigation into the

751
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 12: Trump campaign was basically built upon really shoddy intelligence, and

752
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 12: that what the intelligence community was telling us and telling

753
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 12: the Obama officials and what Obama was sort of projecting

754
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 12: to the world in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen was

755
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 12: kind of overwrought based on what they had at the time.

756
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 6: It was an exaggeration.

757
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 12: This report specifically, the most damage thing in this report

758
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 12: is that the idea that Putin had a clear preference

759
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 12: for Trump, according to the HPSCI report, was based on scant, unclear,

760
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 12: and unverifiable fragment of one sentence from a human source

761
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 12: that five CIA authors read five different ways and was

762
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 12: initially left out, but Brannan asked them to put it

763
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 12: back in this ICA, this initial report which blew the

764
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 12: top off the whole thing and generated all the news coverage.

765
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,959
Speaker 3: People I covered it at the time, that the Ode

766
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 3: and I Report, etc. But that's the core revelation here,

767
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 3: is that what you're saying.

768
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 12: I would say that is to me the biggest thing

769
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 12: that pops off the page.

770
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 6: Is that this idea.

771
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 12: That they knew then in January of twenty seventeen that

772
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 12: Putin had a clear preference for Trump was based on

773
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 12: really really really shoddy intelligence. And the reports kind of

774
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 12: lists the four or five different sources, which include things

775
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 12: like this sort of this sentence that they heard that

776
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 12: everybody interpreted differently. The Steele dossier was included in it.

777
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 12: There was sort of like reports from twenty fourteen, well

778
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 12: before the campaign even started, diplomatic and media reports is

779
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 12: what was quoted. So it seems like that is to

780
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 12: me the biggest thing that sort of damning evidence that

781
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 12: that initial ICA was built on really insufficient intelligence. What

782
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 12: happened later was that many investigations that that ICA launched

783
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 12: did kind of verify that Putin preferred Trump and that

784
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 12: they did hack the DNC. You know, if you believe

785
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 12: the Wikileak's Russia story, which I think our government and

786
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 12: intelligence community does, you know, so they used sort of

787
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 12: shoddy intelligence to get the investigation going. The investigation sort

788
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 12: of concluded some of the priors that the Obama administration had.

789
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 12: It's a weird you have to hold some complicated things

790
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 12: at the same.

791
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: Time, yeah, and what about the direct connect to Obama here?

792
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: Like what I mean, I don't think any of us

793
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: believes that criminal charges are going to be filed against Obama.

794
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 2: Even if they were. The Supreme Court has said basically,

795
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: a hey, you can do whatever you want when and

796
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 2: presidence not really anything anyone can do about it. So

797
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: what are they using to try to even make the

798
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 2: case that they're criminal charges against Obama?

799
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 12: So earlier in the week, a couple of days before this,

800
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 12: a different report and a different trove of files was

801
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 12: released by Gabbard, And in that report there was, you know,

802
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 12: the sort of bombshell if there was one, There was

803
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 12: that there was a Presidential Daily Briefing which was about

804
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 12: to be published that was assessing that Russia did not

805
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 12: have the capability or the intention to hack our election infrastructure.

806
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 12: And the FBI pulled that report, pulled the Presidential Daily

807
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 12: Briefing right before it was about to be published, and

808
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 12: then Obama sort of ordered all his intelligence officials together,

809
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 12: and then you know, weeks later they produced this ica,

810
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 12: this this assessment that I was just talking about, and

811
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 12: that the sort of fundamentals of what that assessment would

812
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 12: end up being leaked to the press immediately before it

813
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 12: was published. For it was released, and the core allegation

814
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 12: is basically that Obama brought together these intelligence officials hell

815
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 12: bent on, you know, advancing a specific narrative that he

816
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 12: didn't really have the goods for the problem with that

817
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 12: is that, you know, Obama and the Obama administration weeks

818
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 12: before any of this had happened, they had already applied

819
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 12: for the FISA warrant for Carter Page, and in applying

820
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 12: for that visa warrant, they had stated their case to

821
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 12: the court, which was that they thought Russia hacked the

822
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 12: DNC and they believed they were going to strategically release

823
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 12: those emails to damage Clinton. So the Obama theory was

824
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 12: not like invented after the Presidential Daily Briefing was squashed.

825
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 12: You know, they had already believed this for weeks. We

826
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 12: know that because they went to the FISA court and

827
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 12: made their case to the FISA court. So yeah, I

828
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 12: don't think Obama's going to be tried for treason. I mean,

829
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 12: this is the frustrating part is that Gabbard gets out

830
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 12: over a skis and has to kind of say this

831
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 12: ridiculous stuff and it's going to jail him trying.

832
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: To They're trying to distract from Epstein and Tilsey's trying

833
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: to get back in his good graces after the whole

834
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 2: like you know Iran situation and her coming out and

835
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: being like, oh, Iran is not actually pursuing anular weapon.

836
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 2: So I mean that is what hangs over all of

837
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: this and why this quote unquote disclosure is happening now.

838
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 3: And Isaac, I mean, I know that the DOJ has

839
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 3: announced a quote strikeforce around this, but you know, my

840
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 3: friend Christian Daytalk, who was in the briefing room, asked

841
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 3: a great question. He said, you know, the statute of

842
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 3: limitations for conspiracy is five years, so you've only got

843
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 3: one charge at this point that you're looking at. I mean,

844
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 3: even with you know, Rico conspiracy fraud, I mean wire fraud,

845
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 3: which is apparently all the things that they usually look

846
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 3: at these so called strikeforce teams. They have a very limited,

847
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 3: you know, number of crimes that they can go into,

848
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,479
Speaker 3: and as you noted, treason basically is the only one

849
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 3: that could even be pursued here against the former president.

850
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 3: So like go into what that would actually mean at

851
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 3: a practical level for trying to charge that in a

852
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 3: criminal court of law.

853
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't.

854
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 12: Look again, I don't think that there is I mean,

855
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 12: is it's a fantasy. I think it's you know, the

856
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 12: Andrew McCarthy who wrote an entire book making the case

857
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 12: that Trump's presidency, his first term, was basically destroyed by

858
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 12: a ginned up conspiracy that you know, he colluded with Russia.

859
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 6: I mean, a very sort of pro Trump narrative.

860
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 12: He's been covering these latest releases and I think doing

861
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 12: a really admirable job at National Review, writing honest pieces

862
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 12: like none of this information is new. John Durham did

863
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 12: the most thorough investigation of the Muller probe and the

864
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 12: investigation into Trump, and he didn't charge anybody even close

865
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 12: to Obama's orbit after that time period. I mean, there

866
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 12: were some you know, there's the FBI official who kind

867
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 12: of edited the email, and there are real crimes there

868
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 12: that got charged. But the idea that Obama I mean,

869
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 12: you know, as McCarthy put it, it's not a crime, unfortunately,

870
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 12: to kind of to gin up a political smear using

871
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 12: vaguely worded you know, intelligence assessments. There is no crime

872
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 12: there that they can actually charge. The more it's certainly

873
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 12: not treason, and as you just pointed out, the maybe

874
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 12: more reasonable idea that they would go after a former

875
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 12: president for like conspiracy is something that has passed the

876
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 12: Statute of Limitations, which is something that Andrew McCarthy mentioned

877
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 12: to it and is reporting. So I honestly don't have

878
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 12: the imagination to tell you what a treason charge against

879
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 12: Obama would.

880
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 1: Actually this is what is important here.

881
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: Look, there are three people here, I think, Isaac, I

882
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: can't speak for you, who did a lot of stuff

883
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 3: on Russiagate and about how it was bs and about

884
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 3: the way that it was used, how politically disaster it was.

885
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: By the way I think it has major foreign policy

886
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 3: implications and all of that, etc. We are still here

887
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 3: eight years later now at this point, which is part

888
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 3: of why there's almost a deja.

889
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: Vu aspect of which Tulsi was asked was.

890
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 3: Like, hey, listen, wasn't the time to do all of

891
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 3: this in the first Trump administration, right? And she was like, oh, well,

892
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: there are people working for him, you know at the time.

893
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 3: But like that's part of where you know, when we

894
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 3: bring the politics into this, it just seems a little

895
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 3: bit convenient to be having this full scale rollout at

896
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 3: a time of all his uproar and concern over the

897
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 3: Epstein files. When look the information released, the historical record

898
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 3: is now clear it was BS from day one. Okay,

899
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 3: that's you know, great, and I guess it is a scandal,

900
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 3: you know, et cetera. But the context in which it

901
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 3: all is happening just seems like it undermines the you know,

902
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 3: maximal extent.

903
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: For what they're trying to go for. Is that is

904
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: that your read of it?

905
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, I what I would add, and this

906
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 12: is something that I've said a lot in my writing,

907
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 12: is just the Trump administration and the Trump campaign didn't

908
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 12: help themselves at the time. You know, they were Trump

909
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 12: was asking WikiLeaks to drop more emails, RuSHA out there,

910
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 12: if you're listening. Donald Trump Junior was taking the meetings

911
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 12: with the lawyer, promising dirt on Clinton. I mean, there

912
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 12: was stuff there that I think justified skepticism and concern

913
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 12: about them.

914
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 3: Uh.

915
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 12: But we have had We've turned over basically every rock,

916
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 12: and the collusion theory has obviously crumbled, and it is

917
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 12: very clear that the Obama administration and intelligence officials from

918
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 12: that time period we're feeding the media stories to make

919
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 12: it look as bad as possible, and they were preventing

920
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 12: us from hearing things that probably would have come the

921
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 12: air a little bit that would have calmed tensions a

922
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 12: little bit. So I get the anger and the fury

923
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 12: from the Trump camp. I just think what's happening now,

924
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 12: as you guys have pointed out, is very obviously designed

925
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 12: to be a distraction. I mean, the self interest from

926
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 12: Tulsea Gabbert is obvious given where it seems like she

927
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 12: stands in the administration, and the Epsteine file stuff is

928
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 12: consuming the base and dividing Trump's most loyal supporters.

929
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 6: So sort of.

930
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 12: Trotting out this eight year old story that puts the

931
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 12: focus on Obama and Obama officials, I mean, it's smart.

932
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 12: We're sitting here talking about it. It's working, and they're

933
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 12: getting a lot of attention for it, and I think

934
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 12: it's an effective thing to do. I think we as

935
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 12: journalists have to look at it honestly and explain exactly

936
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 12: what's going on. But yeah, that's basically my best read

937
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 12: the situation, I think.

938
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

939
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 2: I mean I also think Hillary Clinton sort of escaped

940
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 2: scrutiny in some ways in this too, because yes, Obama

941
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: administration they were in place in their officials and like

942
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: you know, the official actions are being taken there. The

943
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: reason this took off so much with the liberal base

944
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: is because Hillary Clinton want an excuse for why she

945
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 2: lost to this guy. And that's where you know this

946
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 2: was intentionally like planned after she lost of okay, how

947
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 2: are we going to escape culpability? And that's you know,

948
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 2: that was very successful. And so for me, Isaac, it's

949
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: very ironic to see the way Russia Gate are usually

950
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: originally used by Democrats to cover for their failures and

951
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 2: now being used by this Republican administration to basically cover

952
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 2: for Trump's failures. So it truly is the story that

953
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: never dies.

954
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a good observation.

955
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 12: I mean, if you go back and watch the Clinton

956
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 12: campaign and look back at their old tweets from this

957
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 12: time and even what Hillary was doing on the campaign

958
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 12: and you know on the debate stage, I mean, he's

959
00:47:59,080 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 12: a putent.

960
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 6: It all their tweets, all.

961
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 12: Their social media was about tying Trump, and we know

962
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 12: now we have contemporaneous documents in their internal communications where

963
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 12: we know the Clinton campaign was strategically trying to tie

964
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 12: Trump to Putin.

965
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 6: I mean, they were involved in this and.

966
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 12: Like to believe that the Clinton campaign didn't have contact

967
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 12: with Obama officials or people in the intelligence community. I mean,

968
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 12: of course they did, so we know that that was

969
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 12: part of their strategy to win the election that obviously backfired.

970
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 12: And yeah, it's a good point. I mean we we

971
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 12: sort of memory hold that part of it too.

972
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: Actually, that's my last question here.

973
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,919
Speaker 3: I know there was so she talked a lot about

974
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 3: Hillary and some of this info that they sat on

975
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 3: with Hillary. This just goes to my old coverage at

976
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 3: the time. Is there what was she talking about about?

977
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 3: They were sitting on information that she was on tranquilizers

978
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 3: and then her health was compromised.

979
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: Can you go into any of that?

980
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean this was I would you know this

981
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 12: wouldn't be like the main headline. Like I said, I

982
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 12: think the biggest story from this drop was that the

983
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 12: assessment that Putin favored Trump was based on really bad intelligence,

984
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 12: but they did. One of the allegations that is made

985
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 12: in this report is that the Russians had much more

986
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 12: damning information on Hillary Clinton that she was going through

987
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 12: these like violent mood swings and she was taking tranquilizers

988
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 12: and she was basically in some like Mani state and

989
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 12: was not emotionally, you know, prepared to sit in the

990
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 12: White House basically. And part of what they found, or

991
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 12: what they're saying they found, is that Russia had this

992
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 12: information and they sat on it. They didn't release it

993
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 12: to the public, and that sort of raises questions about,

994
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 12: you know, what their real preference was.

995
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 6: And the idea was basically that Russia thought.

996
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 12: It was a foregone conclusion Hillary Clinton was going to

997
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 12: win and they wanted to push some stuff out to

998
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 12: sort of weaken her presidency, but they also didn't want

999
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 12: to go too far that maybe they blew up the

1000
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 12: entire relationship and then you know, Trump won and shocked

1001
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 12: the world and that changed everything.

1002
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 6: But yeah, it is.

1003
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 12: I mean, there's some juicy stuff in there, certainly if

1004
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 12: you're into the kind of sleation. But again, I don't

1005
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 12: really know. It's hard to know how legitimate any of

1006
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 12: that information is either, and you know what kind of

1007
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 12: stuff like that is just sort of the classic Russian

1008
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 12: co or whatever.

1009
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, nobody knows if it's real.

1010
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 3: I say tape, We'll say I will never forget that

1011
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 3: day when she collapsed on nine to eleven. That was

1012
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 3: like the craziest thing for those of us who are

1013
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 3: involved in right wing media. But Isaac, thank you for

1014
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 3: joining us man. He did such a great job of

1015
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 3: breaking all this down tangle.

1016
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: We will put a link.

1017
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 3: Down in the description and we recommend people go ahead

1018
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 3: and subscribe. So thanks for joining us man. We appreciate you.

1019
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 6: Thanks so much for having me, guys, I appreciate it.

1020
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate you.

1021
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 3: We didn't, unfortunately have the time to get to the

1022
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 3: home segment. We want to get the show somewhat on

1023
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 3: time out, so maybe we'll kick it to the Friday

1024
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 3: show discuss then, But thank you all so much for watching.

1025
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: We appreciate you, and we'll see you later.