WEBVTT - 8/4/26: Flock Camera Revolt, China Gives Iran Weapons Amid US Decline 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:01.599 Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:05.200 Independent media has played a truly massive role in this election, 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.840 and we are so excited about what that means for 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:08.720 the future of this show. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:10.760 This is the only place where you can find honest 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.239 perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:14.680 not exist anywhere else. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.080 So if that is something that's important to you, please 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.599 go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.800 you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.600 and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:27.560 We need your help to build the future of independent 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.920 news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.040 dot com. 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:38.519 So the mass spread of flock cameras across the country 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:43.280 has increasingly become an issue of deep concern to Americans. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.480 There's one organization that has sprung up called Deflock, which 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:48.760 you can go to their website and you can see 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.320 a map of where all the flock cameras are located. 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.920 They're doing sort of standard First Amendment advocacy against the 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:01.680 spread of this surveillance technology. Flo CEO was asked about 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:05.800 this group and he labeled them as a terrorist organization. 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:06.839 Let's take a listen. 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.720 You've got organizations like the ACLU and the FF who 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.240 take an above a board approach to fight for their 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.320 point of view. And thankfully we live in a beautifully democratic, 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.920 capitalistic country where we can fight in court, and I 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.640 have a lot of respect for those groups because they 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.720 have reasonable debates and we follow the law. And then 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:30.840 unfortunately there's terroristic organizations like dflock whose primary motivation is chaos. 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.720 They are closer to Antifa than they are anything else, 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.959 and now I think is unfortunate because we don't want chaos, 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:39.360 or I don't want chaos. I like law and order, 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.800 like a society that has a better rock of safety. 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.319 So for those groups, I think it's just disappointing that 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.280 they haven't chosen a more constructive minnerism to try to 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.000 get what they want, which they have a right to have. 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:52.960 But that's why we have a democratically elected process, right 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:57.080 Like we're not forcing flock on anyone. Elected officials know 0:01:57.640 --> 0:01:59.960 that as a community, you want to be safe. 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.800 I mean, this is complete insanity, Sager, but it also 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.120 fits into the rhetorical and legal framework that the Trump 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.880 admin has set up. It's not an accident that he 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.120 named tex Antifa here because they've used NSBM seven and 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.520 other tools to try to go after these left wing 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.560 groups that they label as terrorists, and so he adopts 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.400 that language to try to you know, put deflock in 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.160 the same category as these other groups that have been 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.519 identified by the Trump administration as terrorists. But literally, you 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.560 can go to their website, the tagline says welcome to 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.200 deflock and open source Project Mapping license plate readers, Like, 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.160 that's just a basic service and advocacy group that is, 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.920 you know, being provided to the public so that they 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.040 can push back on what's happening in their communities where 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:44.840 they've had very little. 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.079 Say yeah, I think this is absolutely insane, and it's 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.520 pretty obvious that this CEO first of all, dflock is 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.000 a nonprofit organization, So if you're going to say that 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:57.239 it's you know, terroristic or whatever, frankly, they should be 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.160 able to sue if they want to, because you know, 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.760 you can't just say sorry. So genuinely, I mean, like 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:07.680 that's an actual term which has meaning. It's a nonprofit organization, 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.040 which is open source, which allows people just to flag 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:15.040 where flock cameras actually are. By that definition, weighs as 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.280 a terrorist organization because it lets you flag where police 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.200 officers are whenever they're trying to speed trap you. So 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.680 let's start with that the second thing. And you know 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.799 I said this, I got such an angry message from 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.000 a right wing friend of mine where I said, I 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:33.960 genuinely would trust a place like China or Singapore to 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.280 surveil me and to a master avail me, then I 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.400 would Flock. And I'm about to show you why is 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.360 because it is a for profit company with very sketchy 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.080 ability to actually hold to account and is, by the way, 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.000 not wholly bought in by our democratic system, also with 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.800 a profit motive. Okay, so you put those three things together, 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.440 and oh lo and behold, you have the problems that 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.920 befall all American institutions. Let's go and put this next 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.119 one up here on a screen. In one California town, 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.400 Flock misread license plates in seventy one percent of the 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.960 alerts that it sent to police. Summer of twenty twenty four, 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.400 a police called a man to discuss a persistent problem 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.640 with his license plate. The city's AI powered license plate reader, 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.479 made up by Flock, had repeatedly misread the plate six times. 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.279 They had sent alerts to the Roseville Police Department, identifying 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.200 the vehicle as stolen or used in a felony crime. 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.479 Police could see that the flock software kept confusing nine 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.160 four an eight. The car owner said he would take 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.839 off his license plate cover, and soon after it happened again. 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.800 So this guy is getting harassed by the police because 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.359 the AI license plate reader is not you know, is 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.800 not reading his plate correctly. Now again, if you're going 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:49.520 to pay this company all this money, you're going to 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.360 mount all these cameras in public and make it so 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.960 that we're basically eroding all public privacy, you would at 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.479 the very least say could it work? And yet in 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.240 this case it's not working. Oh. Second one is that 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:06.040 we also know about institutional misuse and abuse. This also 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:09.600 happened many times with the NSA with their warrant list 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.640 spuying program. Let's put this one up here on the screen. 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:17.159 How raw rogue officers turned a nationwide camera network into 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.560 a tool for stalking. So, for example, they interview a 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.280 woman Marcy Bakley. She couldn't understand how her ex boyfriend 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.440 always seemed to know where she was when she went 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.640 to buy groceries. He would text her about it. Sometimes 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.320 within minutes, despite he was working fifteen miles from her 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.039 home as police chief in a small town in Atlanta. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.200 One day in twenty twenty four, when he incorrectly suspected 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:38.839 that she'd gone to see a man against his witches, 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.160 he messaged her, I didn't think he would slip up. 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.320 She began to feel like she was constantly being watched. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.960 She installed cameras around her home and on her patio 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.240 to see if he was stalking her. She bought hidden 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.800 camera detective a detector. Three times, in desperation, she drove 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.240 her car to a mechanic shop. Then one day she 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.080 pressed him for answers, and he said he was using 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:02.200 his flock access as a police officer quote like thousands 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.440 of other law enforcement agencies, his police cars can his 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.880 police force can follow cars spotted by flocks sprawling network 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.760 of AI roadside cameras which record passing license plate into 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:17.840 a mappable database that officers can then search while investigating 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.359 a crime. However, they then note that it's obviously rife 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.840 and abuse. Now, to be clear, he was arrested on 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.599 charges of stocking harassment and license plate misreader abuse, but 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.480 as you can see very clearly is that there are 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:37.240 no actual checks within the system from stopping these small 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.360 town sheriffs or any of these other places with very 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.719 little accountability to be able to use it for whatever 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.640 ends that they want. And I'm not, you know, against 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.159 the police or any of that, but I do think 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.080 it's very very clear that if we're going to have 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.400 a system like this and then spread it very oddly 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.080 with no real like federal government oversight, keep it to 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.240 you know, contracts with localities and with states, that is 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.479 clearly to the advantage of flock the flock the company, 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.560 which is way less accountable, as I said, to some 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.120 nationally organized system with at the very least you could 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.400 have some ability to have democratic checks on this ability. 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.440 And it also just gets to the point of these 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.920 cameras went up. We have no say about it at all. Yeah, 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.680 we're all out there here, Okay, they're here. Better deal 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:27.000 with it. 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.640 And think about how terrifying this was for this woman. 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.360 Oh my god, he had looked up her tags and 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.600 those of her teenage daughter more than six hundred times. 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.200 More than six hundred times. By the way, you can 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.560 go to have I been flocked, and they do a 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.200 search that aggregates police search logs to see if your 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.200 license plate has been searched. So at least that public 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.000 tool is available to you. And I think it's no 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.520 accident that the CEO of Flock finds this sort of 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.880 you know, open access in for me to be such 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.280 a threat to their business model, because you do start 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.360 to see the public. The more they become aware of this, 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.080 the more horrified they are by it, and the more 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.920 sort of organic push back there is to it. But 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.440 lest you think that this was a one off case 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.880 with this, you know one bad apple who was using 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.520 the technology, misusing the technology to stalk his ex and 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.080 her teenage daughter. Authorities have charged your accused at least 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:28.760 fifty law enforcement officers of using this for unauthorized purposes. 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.000 You had one dude who was tracking an X to 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.800 see if she was going to an abortion clinic. You 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.520 had all kinds of stalking to see if they were 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.960 with a new man, or stalking the new man to 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:44.199 see what he was up to. Threats, abuse, horrifying, horrifying 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.680 stuff that is going on with this, And to your point, 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.120 there's really no laws around it, and you think the 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.839 police departments are going to just on their own make 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:55.439 sure that there's you know, limited use of this technology. No, 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:57.320 they want a free hand to be able to do 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.520 whatever they want with it, so that they can deploy 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.839 it in the ways that they, you know, think are 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:04.880 going to be useful and easy for them. It really 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:06.840 is sort of like crack cocaine to these police departments, 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.240 because even that one in California where they found the 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.760 license plates were being misread seventy one percent of the time. 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:15.680 You might look at that and go, this seems like 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.800 it might be more trouble than it's worth. Maybe they'll 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:19.560 just get rid of it. They're not getting rid of 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:23.440 it because in the certain cases they find it useful. 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.840 And so once this technology becomes embedded, even when it 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.520 performs extremely poorly, even when it causes all sorts of 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:36.920 civil rights violations and privacy violations, it is very difficult 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.640 to dislodge because the police departments like it, They enjoy it, 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:44.200 and just one other piece here in terms of you know, 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.000 all right, so what's the big deal if they misidentify 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.880 the license plate? Who really, you know, who really cares? Okay, 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.400 it's kind of awkward for the police departments, et cetera. 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.880 Maybe there's misuse an expenditure of resources that they wouldn't need. 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.600 Put D four up on the screen. Just think about 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.120 what this would look like for you, you and your family. 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.120 So this is a guy who test drives vehicles, like 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.080 that's his job. He like test drives vehicles and then 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.439 he writes up reviews of them for this website called 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:13.600 The Drive. Well, because of a sort of technical glitch 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.360 and error in the way that they were tracking these 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.480 test drive vehicles, the vehicle that he was test driving, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.360 this very expensive one, was flagged as having been stolen. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.760 So police in this town tracked him and his family 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.760 for days. They had all this video recording of him, 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:32.760 you know, going about his life, going to the grocery store, 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.360 et cetera. He and his wife pull into a Kohle's 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:40.680 parking lot. Multiple police vehicles like race up, surround them, 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.880 pin them in. He's freaking out, like what is going 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.960 on here, and you know, responds in a way that 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:51.400 sort of de escalates the situation. Fortunately, these cops listened 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.360 to him and believed what he had to say. One 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.720 of them, luckily, was actually familiar with the drive and 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:57.880 was like, Okay, this is legit. Because you can imagine 0:10:57.880 --> 0:10:59.720 this sounds like bullshit, Like no, no, I just test 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.880 drive these cars for a living, these expensive cars for 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.360 a living. You could see how that would sound like bullshit. 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.120 And they told him, Hey, you're lucky that this happened here, 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:08.960 because if it happened in the city, they would come 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.080 at you guns drawn. Like that's what we're talking about here. 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:16.520 This is complete insanity. And to the point about the 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.840 you know, the rising political consciousness and why some of 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.199 this just information being accessible to the public is creating 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.280 a real problem for them. You can see some response 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.959 on both the right and the left as politicians try 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:33.160 to position themselves as caring about these issues in local communities. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.400 Byron Donald's down in Florida, we can put D five up. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:36.840 On the screen. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.960 He's sounding the alarm about flock surveillance cameras. He's saying 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.320 that they're impinging on constitutional rights. He's calling for a 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.880 full pause. And I took note of this. Francesca, hang, 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:49.679 how I think you know we talked earlier about the 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.840 whole canceled Thanksgiving situation. 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:53.160 There's a lot to say about that. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.359 In terms of why she's leading in the Democratic primary 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.680 and certainly has a shot in the general election, is 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:02.800 because of the range of issues that she has really 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:07.800 chosen to focus on, among them data centers, and she 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.440 gives a mention to flot cameras in this new ad 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:12.160 that she just put out. 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:13.040 Let's take a listen to that. 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.600 I'm here at the failed fox Con manufacturing site. This 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.480 is now a Microsoft AI data center plan. Just like 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.400 in twenty eighteen with fox Con, Republicans will sell out 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:26.480 our communities again. 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.680 I think we can say this is we can say 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:30.840 this is the eighth wonder of the world. 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:35.760 Flock cameras, poison groundwater and eye source that don't create 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.840 future good jobs, two billion dollars in tax breaks that 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.320 you and I will be paying for. I'm the only 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.280 candidate in this race to call for a moratorium on 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.840 the construction of new AI data centers. We can't afford 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.240 to be fox conned again. The people deserve a same. 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.280 So there you see the mention of flot cameras being 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.360 pulled into this broader issue said around, you know, pushing 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.560 back on data centers, tapping into the whole Fox counn 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.079 situation in Wisconsin as well. But I took note of 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.959 she was the first Democratic candidate that I'd seen put 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.000 this in you know, any of the ads, and so 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.760 you ask yourself, why has she quickly skyrocketed to the 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.160 top of the Democratic primary leader board and you know 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.640 is basically FATA company that she's going to be the 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.840 Democratic nominee against some very prominent establishment back candidates that 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.160 she was up against. And I think it's because she 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:27.880 really has had her finger on the pulse of some 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:32.200 of these bubbling issues that are really also cross ideological right. 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.360 And that's that's why we show the Byron Donalds thing, 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.040 I mean, very likely to be the next governor of Florida. 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.520 He is saying that you need a full pause. We've 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.400 had a number actually of GOP representatives very recently who 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.600 have been talking about flock. I mean, it's very obvious 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.920 because at the high level, like I said, there's no 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:54.439 federal regulation on AI license plate readers. It's all state 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.360 and local. The company is getting fantastically rich. These have 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.920 come across the entire name. You can just go to 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.600 deflock and actually look at the map of where they 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.480 all are. Very likely it's already in your community, or 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.840 you drive one at least unwittingly. You have at a 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.440 minimum in the last few months, and you have no 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.160 say in this whole Like have I had been flocked. 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:19.200 That's only because a foia information that you're able to see. 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.840 But there's no actual regulatory body on whether this is 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.200 okay that we're outsourcing all this info completely to a 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.200 private company which is now saying that if you track 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.160 where they are that you're somehow a terrorist. So I 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.160 think that the political dynamics around this are very important. 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.480 Anybody should be deeply concerned about this ability of a 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.360 private company to just come in partner with the localities 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.000 of which there's very little insight, regulation or even knowledge 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.840 of the community itself. They come up everywhere and then 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.360 you know, the justification is is that it's vital in 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.800 helping solve crime, and I think that's probably true, But 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.400 there's also a significant downside we're seeing already with the abuse, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.560 with the mystery. There needs to be the ability for 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:00.400 the public to have some sort of say to keep 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.080 things actually accountable, and it's become I mean, I've seen 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.080 this spread like wildfire in terms of people who are 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.160 upset about this, you know, general feeling not just with 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.520 data centers, but with the cameras of being mass surveiled 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.359 all the time. Imagine COVID if this type of technology 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:19.840 had been as widespread at that time, they're like, oh, 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.360 you got a ticket, you left your house during lockdown 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.520 like that. It's so so easy. I mean to think 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.520 about what you know, the state of California would have 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.080 done in the middle of a lockdown if they had 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.560 this type of technology, and how they easily could have 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.720 made it and integrated it into their enforcement regime. If 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.680 you're worried about immigration, yeah, well, oh you're an activist 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.040 and you happen to be in the area. Here you go, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.760 here's a ticket. You know, beds are coming to your door, 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.480 And frankly, I think that's already happening. I was just 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.880 reading a Wall Street Journal piece passive this morning. But 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:51.920 this is what enables it. This is the reason, and 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.640 this is exactly why I think most people at the 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:56.880 very lea should demand a hell of a lot more 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.400 regulation and safeguard as opposed to just allowing private company 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.400 states and locality just put these things up wherever we live, 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.640 basically with no real notice, I think, to all of us. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.440 And so, yeah, well, and Sager, you're making an important 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.240 point here, which is, well, it may help solve certain 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:17.400 types of crimes. It's also opening up an entirely new 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.280 vector of potential criminality, as you can see with all 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.040 of this stalking and harassment that is going on here. 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.360 So yeah, I mean in kind of a similar way 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.200 with the immigration crackdown, where on the one hand you 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:31.560 could say, oh, this is law and order. On the 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.520 other hand, you saw all the chaos that created and 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.280 all the criminal behavior from the ICE agents in the 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.960 street which just went completely unpunished. You can see a 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.040 similar nexus here where, yes, on the one hand, it 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.280 may make it easier to track some of the bad guys, 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.360 on the other hand, it enables a whole other series 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.320 of bad guys to do things that are really horrifying 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.560 and terrifying and infringe on our liberties. There's always a 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.680 balance in a society between you know, this sort of 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.760 like authoritarianism, but you know, maybe the crime get solved 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.040 versus people having some liberty that has to be struck. 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:05.920 And I think most Americans are saying this goes way 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.560 too far in the direction of just a complete, a 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:09.880 total surveillance state. 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.640 Yeah, because it's it comes down to enforcement, you know, 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.200 it comes down to and you you could to it 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.960 in multiple different directions. If you are in Seattle, people 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:23.000 are literally smoking crack on the bus. But if you speed, 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.760 you're gonna get a ticket. That's insane. That is a 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.600 complete insane. Now let me do the other way. So 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.439 I just talked about the lowest common denominor named lowest 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.880 common denominator of society, a literal crackhead or a fence 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.000 and all head. Well, let's switch it. If you are 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.560 one of these people who Trump just pardoned for a 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.320 multi billion dollars ponzi scheme, right, and you get out 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.560 of prison, But I run a red light and I 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.400 get twenty five dollars ticket. That's bullshit too. So that's 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:51.359 what it comes back. There's no consistent enforcement. It comes 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.760 down to run of the middle. Actual everyday citizen is 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.440 dually screwed, and there's this type of system. We have 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:00.840 a lot of compassion. You know, you got a federal 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.159 government on the side of the ultra rich. But if 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.199 you're just a normal everyday guy and you're just you know, 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.800 you're not a fentanyl addict, you're not an ultra rich billionaire. 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.439 You're the person actually who's has the most consistent law 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.159 enforcement directed at you. And I think that's what is 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.920 wrong with our country. So anyway, some free from free 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.240 law and order discourse there for some of the candidates 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.200 that are out there. All right, let's get to Japan. 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.200 Joining us now is Daniel Besner. He is the author 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.880 of the Imperious Realism substack, the author of Imperious Realism, 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.119 the book which we could show all of you, and 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:37.359 the host of the American Prestige podcast. That's a record 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.480 intro here for guests. But again someone have corresponded with 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.040 a few times and who really caught my interest with 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.359 some of his writing and some of his analysis. So 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.320 thank you very much for joining us, Dan, we appreciate it. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:51.879 Thank you so much for having me. Really happy to 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:52.119 be here. 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.479 Absolutely so, you've been really lasered in on this theory 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.520 of imperious realism which you've developed. Kind of the fallout 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.600 of post Cold War liberalism and the rise of a 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.200 new multi polar world one of the things topics that 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.640 we cover pretty extensively here on our show. Just to 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.600 link it to today's news, let's put this one up 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.280 here for example, on the screen about Iran is said 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.760 to get some Chinese shoulder launched missile systems in weeks 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.080 made me think of some of your analysis. This is 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.160 exactly the same type of tactics the United States undertook 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.720 during the Cold War against the Soviet Union. But you know, 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.880 Joe or generally, maybe give the audience an idea of 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:34.119 your framework here around imperious realism, what it means for 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:35.879 the United States and then the future of the world, 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:37.880 and connected here to the Iran situation. 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:45.560 Absolutely so. I think there's something interesting happening in how 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.040 Americans understand their role in the world and what I 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:52.080 would term the American Empire, which is this notion that 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.879 there's really no changing it, that there's really no way 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:59.480 to transform the American Empire, to transform geopolitics. And I 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.240 think this is a transformation from how Americans understood their 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.960 world role as recently as the nineteen nineties, when someone 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:07.920 like madel and Olivery could say on the Today Show 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.359 that the United States sees further than other countries, which 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.800 gives us license to act in the world. I think 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.000 the failures of the global War on Terror and also 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.399 the end of what I would call mass politics, the 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.720 inability of people to actually affect foreign policy and economic policy, 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.480 and a number of other issue areas has engendered this 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.560