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Speaker 1: Hello there, it's Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. We've got

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Speaker 1: a special show for you today. It's an interview with

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Speaker 1: Joe Loyer, the star of our podcast, Get the Money

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Speaker 1: and Run. The interview is by one of the podcast

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Speaker 1: universes more intelligent and interesting interviewers. That's Jordan Harbinger. Jordan

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Speaker 1: did two shows with Joe. We've got the first one

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Speaker 1: for you today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Jordan. Briefly in our podcast Get the Money and Run,

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Speaker 1: Joe's the person who gets the money and runs. Literally,

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Speaker 1: he was a track star in high school, though you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't know it by looking at him today.

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Speaker 2: Uh sorry, Joe.

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Speaker 1: My favorite part of the podcast is when Joe explains

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Speaker 1: how he got into bank robbing spoiler alert. He says,

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Speaker 1: I got on this path by trying to murder my father.

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Speaker 1: It's happened to a lot of us, right. Joe gives

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Speaker 1: Jordan a pretty good rendition of this story. Please find

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Speaker 1: our podcast Get the Money and Run on Apple or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen. Jordan's many fantastic interviews, and there are

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Speaker 1: over a thousand of them. Can be found at the

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Speaker 1: Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: As always, to listen to ad free, please subscribe to

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Speaker 1: Crime Clubhouse on Apple Enjoy.

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Speaker 3: Special thanks to Kayman Jack for sponsoring this episode of

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Speaker 3: The Jordan Harbinger Show. Coming up next on The Jordan

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Speaker 3: Harbinger Show, The choreography.

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Speaker 2: Of a beating Right. I don't know at the time,

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Speaker 2: but I'm nursing a couple of fractures a rib in

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Speaker 2: an album. I'm beat up real good. Put my brother

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Speaker 2: in the bathroom, I lock him in. I go to

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Speaker 2: the kitchen and I pull out a steak knife and

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Speaker 2: I walk over to the bedroom. I put it under

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Speaker 2: the pillar and I just sit there and I wait.

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Speaker 2: My dad comes in. He looks at me over there,

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Speaker 2: you know, glares at me. So I'm thinking, like, what

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Speaker 2: am I? What's he gonna use to hit me? I'm through.

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Speaker 2: This is like a new level of improvise saveragery, right,

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Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay, screw it, and I grab the

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Speaker 2: knife out and I stand up and now I'm satdy

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Speaker 2: there with a with a stak night from my hand.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger On The Jordan

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Speaker 3: Harbinger Show. We decode the stories, secrets and skills of

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Speaker 3: the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into

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Speaker 3: practical advice that you can use to impact your own

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Speaker 3: life and those around you.

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Speaker 4: Our mission is to help you.

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Speaker 3: Become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form

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Speaker 3: conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers,

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Speaker 3: and performers, even the occasional rocket scientist, investigative journalist or hacker.

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Speaker 3: And if you're new to the show or you want

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Speaker 3: to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our

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Speaker 3: episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes

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Speaker 3: on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation,

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Speaker 3: social engineering, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more

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Speaker 3: that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we

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Speaker 3: do here on the show. Just visit Jordanharbinger dot com,

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Speaker 3: slash start, or search for us in your Spotify app

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Speaker 3: to get started today on the show, how does someone

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Speaker 3: even get the idea to rob a bank? Not the

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Speaker 3: Ocean's eleven version, No team, no gadgets, no vault lasers,

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Speaker 3: just you a piece of paper and the decision to

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Speaker 3: walk up to a stranger and tell them to hand

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Speaker 3: over a pile of cash. The eighties and nineties were

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Speaker 3: probably the golden age of bank robbery. No cell phone payings,

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Speaker 3: no facial recognition, maybe one blurry VHS tape that looked

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Speaker 3: like some Bigfoot footage, and then you're gone. You don't run,

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Speaker 3: you don't speed away, you just walk out. Today we're

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Speaker 3: talking with Joe Loya, a guy who robbed dozens of banks, calmly, methodically,

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Speaker 3: often wearing a fedora like he was heading to brunch

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Speaker 3: or maybe a game of Dungeons and Dragons instead of

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Speaker 3: committing a felony. But the story isn't really about bank robbery.

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Speaker 3: It's about fear and how you push through it the

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Speaker 3: first time you do something that permanently changes who you are.

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Speaker 3: It's about violence, power, and what happens when the person

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Speaker 3: who hurts you the most is also the person who

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Speaker 3: raised you. It's about prison redemption and whether you can

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Speaker 3: really walk away from the worst things you've done. Here

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Speaker 3: we go with Joe Loya. A good place to start

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Speaker 3: is probably how does someone find themselves even with the

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Speaker 3: idea of robbing banks, Like where is it? Like, Hey,

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Speaker 3: here's the move, I'm gonna start robbing banks?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you have to start a lot earlier

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Speaker 2: than Hey, I want to rob banks. Okay, most of

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Speaker 2: the guys I knew who were our banks actually were

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Speaker 2: drug addicts, which meant they were doing it to subsidize

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Speaker 2: a drug habit, and so they would just go there

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Speaker 2: so they could get big bunch of money. They could

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Speaker 2: lock themselves in an hotel, get a lot of drugs,

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Speaker 2: get some women, and then that was it. There's no

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Speaker 2: feel for posterity. They're not thinking, oh how long is

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Speaker 2: this gonna last? Me like, can I save it? Can

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Speaker 2: I invest it? You can't have that feel for it.

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Speaker 2: So how does somebody grow up, become an adult and

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Speaker 2: have no feel for posterity? Trauma? Yeah, you have to

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Speaker 2: have trauma early on. You have to have lost connections

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Speaker 2: to the things in society say here, we do this,

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Speaker 2: we do this, we do that, and then you get

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Speaker 2: to the thing, right, you get to the payoff. Well,

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Speaker 2: for us criminals, then part of our impulsivity comes from

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Speaker 2: the fact that we don't have a goal. We don't

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Speaker 2: have that thing. We're just doing what do I need now?

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Speaker 2: What do I need now? What I need now? So

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Speaker 2: I got to there through my childhood, which even though

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Speaker 2: in many ways I was very fortunate in that I

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Speaker 2: had a lot of love early on. I was raised

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Speaker 2: in some private schools. My mom and dad got Mary

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Speaker 2: when they were sixteen. They were my dad was an

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Speaker 2: next gang member, now a Christian Protestant Christian in East

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Speaker 2: La which was all a sea of brown Catholics. It's

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Speaker 2: very odd to be those people. But when we lived

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Speaker 2: in the East La Manivia housing projects, we were very poor,

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Speaker 2: but ambitious. My dad was very ambitious. My dad becomes

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Speaker 2: a Christian and he discovers that he loves the language

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Speaker 2: that he wants to study Greek, he wants to study Hebrews.

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Speaker 2: So he becomes this little brown academic, little nerdy guy

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Speaker 2: who wants to learn the languages of the Bible so

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Speaker 2: he can read in the original language. So I'm raised

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Speaker 2: in that environment. My mother and him and Medinas so

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Speaker 2: they were twelve. They love each other. They're like these

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Speaker 2: little brown mascots in the church, like the very predominantly

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Speaker 2: middle class white church. And my parents they were young

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Speaker 2: married at sixteen to seventeen, they had kids. Wow, So

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Speaker 2: when they would go to young married department, it was

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Speaker 2: all these middle class women and men who graduated from

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Speaker 2: college and now they're having kids. But they're in the

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Speaker 2: middle twenty right, So my dad and my brother the

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Speaker 2: little people, and they're like, they get all this love.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's taking care of them. So I'm getting a lot

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Speaker 2: of love. I'm being raised in this environment in which

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Speaker 2: our family receives a lot of affection. And one of

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Speaker 2: the things we receive too is they're like, hey, you're poor,

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Speaker 2: but why don't you send your kids to the school

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Speaker 2: and we'll do a scholarship thing. So I get scholarship.

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Speaker 2: I start going to his private Christian schools, great education. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: my dad had been brutalized as a kid, even though

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Speaker 2: he loves God, even though he loves Jesus, even though

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Speaker 2: you know, I want now want I want to grow

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Speaker 2: up and I want to be I want to do

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Speaker 2: something at church. My dad would get angry sometimes, and

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Speaker 2: a little bit more than, you know, than with the

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Speaker 2: average person. He was just he was always on edge,

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Speaker 2: get angrier. It's really defensive, really kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: he's got a little volatile but he's young. We're young.

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Speaker 2: We're just thinking this is the way it is in

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Speaker 2: the East Ellian neighborhood. And you're in your in the sixties, right,

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Speaker 2: My mother gets sick at when I'm seven and she

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Speaker 2: gets kidney disease. I don't know it, but this is

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Speaker 2: going to kill her in two years. And in the

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Speaker 2: meantime it's dragging her down. There's no fight. She can't

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Speaker 2: get a new kidney. Her body would reject it. That's

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Speaker 2: how far along it was. Now the stress is on

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Speaker 2: my dad, private schools, driving us to school, has to

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Speaker 2: go for his moms, moms, just having all these experimental

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Speaker 2: drugs on her, and periodically she doesn't know who she is.

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Speaker 2: Not only does she not know who she is, sometimes

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Speaker 2: she thinks she's Elizabeth Taylor and she would call the

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Speaker 2: house and say, can I speak to my boys? This

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Speaker 2: is Elizabeth Taylor. She was out there. Yeah, And my

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Speaker 2: dad was having to deal with this stress. Right, So

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Speaker 2: when you're stressed out then you're a young man. He

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Speaker 2: goes to aggression and me and my brother we would

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Speaker 2: do smallest things and we would get hit pretty good.

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Speaker 2: It's a really weird time. All this stuff's happening. You're

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Speaker 2: a kid. You know something's going on. You know the

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Speaker 2: mood in the house is changing. You know you're gaining

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Speaker 2: a lot of love, you know, Jesus is and then

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, oh wait, what why is it so?

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Speaker 2: And it's just confusing the mind. Well, when I turned nine,

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Speaker 2: my mom dies and she dies. Where are you from?

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Speaker 2: Are you're from Detroite?

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Speaker 4: I'm from Detroit originally Okay.

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Speaker 2: Back in la in nineteen seventy one to February ninth,

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Speaker 2: there was this huge earthquake. It was called the Silmar earthquake.

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Speaker 2: In Silmar, there was a high wing fell off, fell

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Speaker 2: collapsed at two ten, which wasn't even completed yet. That

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Speaker 2: was the day we buried my mother. So that was

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Speaker 2: a very traumatic day too. When my mother died, we

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Speaker 2: have received a lot of love from her and everything

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Speaker 2: like that. My dad can't handle the stress. It's just

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Speaker 2: too much for him. And when he gets angry now

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Speaker 2: he gets brutal. Like we are getting bigger too. So

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Speaker 2: when we were little, it's easy to just whack us

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Speaker 2: around and we'd get have control. But now we're getting

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Speaker 2: bigger and so we're taking punches, we're getting kicked like

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Speaker 2: it's not your basic spankards. Now it's not happening here

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Speaker 2: all the time, okay, but only when you would get

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Speaker 2: stressed and he would get angry, which is why we

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Speaker 2: get so discombobulated, because there's all this love, and there's

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Speaker 2: all this ambition to be like Jesus and love of Jesus.

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Speaker 2: And then my daddy became a minister for a while,

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Speaker 2: but he would periodically like beat us while he's preparing

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Speaker 2: for his sermons and stuff. And it was just a

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Speaker 2: total moral confusion in the house. Total moral confusion.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure that that's that rare.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people who grew up with

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Speaker 3: religious parents got beat quite severely. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 3: downplay what you went through at all. I'm just saying

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Speaker 3: the moral confusion I think is shared by quite a

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Speaker 3: few people with it.

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Speaker 2: Let me go on, let me go on a lot worse. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so listen. All I'm saying is I'm getting you ready.

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Speaker 2: But more importantly, what most people don't have is they

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Speaker 2: don't have a minister for a father. Here's what I

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Speaker 2: mean by moral confusion. What most people don't have certainly

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Speaker 2: none other kids and friends that I had growing up.

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Speaker 2: When one day I get beat up by these bullies

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Speaker 2: at school, I come home, my glasses are broken right here,

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Speaker 2: my sweaters all being torn up and everything. Three guys

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Speaker 2: just beat the hell out of me. Right. I come

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Speaker 2: home and my dad is at the kitchen table with

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Speaker 2: about five commentaries open because he has to give a

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Speaker 2: sermon on Sunday. He's studying the scriptures, he's doing his hermeneutics.

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Speaker 2: He's finding out what's going on at that time in

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Speaker 2: the Bible at that particularly politically, geographically, like everything. He

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Speaker 2: wants to know that passage so he could preach it

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Speaker 2: to you. His boy comes in, broken glasses, torn up. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: what happened? I said, I got beat up on that.

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Speaker 2: He comes over, slaps me and he said, his son

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Speaker 2: not going to be a sissy. He gets me in

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Speaker 2: the car, and so they gotta go fight. All we're

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Speaker 2: gonna find those three guys, and I gotta fight to

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Speaker 2: meet individually. Wow, this is what I mean by moral confused.

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Speaker 2: We're not talking about oh my dad. You know, he

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Speaker 2: just raised his voice. He slaps us around. I'm telling you.

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Speaker 2: I walk in. He's preparing for church. And this disillusions

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Speaker 2: me even further because had you just been a regular

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Speaker 2: blue collar worker who went to church with me on

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Speaker 2: Sunday and beat me up, I'm like, Okay, that's everybody.

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Speaker 2: You're right, but this is different because I'm I'm being

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Speaker 2: encouraged to aspire to hire themes, and I'm watching my

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Speaker 2: father do it. And on Sunday, I'm watching the entire

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Speaker 2: congregation love on my dad because he's that guy who's

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Speaker 2: inspiring them to the higher themes. And I'm looking around saying,

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Speaker 2: you guys don't see it. We're getting beat up all

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Speaker 2: the time, We got bruises on us. What are you

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Speaker 2: guys doing? And it disillusions me to the whole rigamarole.

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Speaker 2: The time goes on, my dad gets married to another

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Speaker 2: woman who shoes a great step mom. Her name is Brenda.

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Speaker 2: I was ten, she was twenty. My dad's twenty six

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Speaker 2: at this point. Twenty seven.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I got so young, yeah, very.

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Speaker 2: Young, right. So Brenda was out of Turlough up here.

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Speaker 2: She was like a country girl. Her family was from

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Speaker 2: the Blue Ridge Mountains of Kentucky or something. She was

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Speaker 2: white girl, and we're, like I said, we're in Easter.

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Speaker 2: It's all brown. And everyone thinks she's our maid because

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Speaker 2: she like she's she's so out of all my friends

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Speaker 2: in school, and she would come to pick me over

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Speaker 2: there though, who's that your maid, white man. I don't

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Speaker 2: like you know, I don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: But they did not know she was my mom. But

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Speaker 2: she was great. You know, she introduced a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: She introduced me literature. In fact, she got me reading

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Speaker 2: a lot of great literature, and she cleaned up my

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Speaker 2: English to kind of the the East La staying out

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Speaker 2: of it temporarily. Brenda became disillusioned with my dad too,

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Speaker 2: who became they became violent with her as well, and

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Speaker 2: she saw all the violence that was going on with us.

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Speaker 2: Now she decides the way. She the way. What she

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Speaker 2: has to do for her south is she has to leave. Now.

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Speaker 2: This is all not just telling you a story. This

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Speaker 2: is the service of the question you asked, like, how

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Speaker 2: does somebody become a bank robber? Well, when my dad

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Speaker 2: was a minister, with Brenda was the accountant, they would

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Speaker 2: get their offering. And I'm already like Larcenus in the heart.

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Speaker 2: I'm so angry and confused to want nobody's helping me

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Speaker 2: with my grief. My mom dies. They catch me crying.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a church lady, say why are you crying?

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Speaker 2: Don't cry? She's in heaven. The Bible says, absent from

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Speaker 2: the body present with the Lord, you should be celebrating

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Speaker 2: that she's in heaven. This is the counseling I'm getting

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Speaker 2: from everyone around me, which has the effect of making

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Speaker 2: me feel like shit because I'm like, oh man, I'm selfish.

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Speaker 2: I should be happy for my mom, and why am

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Speaker 2: I feeling these feelings. These feelings are nothing but bad,

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Speaker 2: They're terrible. This is the moral guidance there, spiritual guidess

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Speaker 2: I'm getting. Now. Besides that, that's not helping me in

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Speaker 2: terms of the moral quandary that I'm going to be

280
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Speaker 2: NTI event should be the guy that rubs banks. But

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Speaker 2: it's just a tough time for me to try and

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Speaker 2: process the grief myself. And I'm being brutalized. So I

283
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Speaker 2: got all this aggression growing. I mean I got rage growinger.

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Speaker 2: You think kids don't have rage, they got by age eleven,

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Speaker 2: I'm rageful, and by age thirteen, I pull a bunch

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Speaker 2: of fire alarms at school. Now I'm a delinquent. I'm

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Speaker 2: getting a's. I'm best kid in school, getting the American

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Speaker 2: Legion warn in that because I'm gonna I'm this great kid.

289
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Speaker 2: But I'm troubled. What I do. I pull all these

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Speaker 2: firearms one week and I get suspended. You know, I'm fighting.

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Speaker 2: I'm just acting out because nobody can help me. And

292
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Speaker 2: so as far as they're concerned, the language that gets

293
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Speaker 2: thrown on me is and you know all the stuff

294
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Speaker 2: that we throw at youngsters now who are having problems

295
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Speaker 2: and act out become super predators, gang bang whatever you

296
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Speaker 2: want to call them. They're troubled kids. They're messed up.

297
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Speaker 2: No one's helping them figure it out, and so they

298
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Speaker 2: act out. They act out of rage and rage that

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Speaker 2: has been put into them, rage that has been fanned

300
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Speaker 2: in them, and they don't know why, they don't know

301
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Speaker 2: where it is. It's just acting. It needs to come out.

302
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Speaker 2: And the same thing with me. I'm at the same place,

303
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Speaker 2: so I'm acting out. Brenda's watching all this deterior in

304
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Speaker 2: the home. And so what I start doing is I

305
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Speaker 2: start stealing money from the from the from the offering.

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Speaker 2: Like I tell everyone, with my first victim was God.

307
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Speaker 2: And then I would go to school and I would

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Speaker 2: pay for all my friends. And I got these sixth grade, seventh,

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Speaker 2: eighth grade friends that are you know, old school friends

310
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Speaker 2: of mine, and we were talking about how I used

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Speaker 2: to buy all these taquitos, go over there buying Burito's

312
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Speaker 2: for I was paying for this stolen money, right, So

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Speaker 2: I wanted to make myself look not poor. And so

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Speaker 2: that is the beginning of me getting a bank. You

315
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Speaker 2: could track it to that. I'm like, I don't like

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Speaker 2: being poor. I don't like having not having money. I'm

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Speaker 2: angry as hell all the time. There's money, let me

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Speaker 2: just take it, and I don't care what the consequences are.

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Speaker 2: I get away with that. For whatever reason, their bookkeeping

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Speaker 2: was so sloppy, I feel they must have been ripping

321
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Speaker 2: got off too, because they like that bookkeeping was not accurate. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: fast forward, Brendan les my dad. I'm fifteen, and he

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Speaker 2: now brews around the house like a drunk. When I

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Speaker 2: would tell the story to guys in prison, and we're

325
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Speaker 2: talking about hardcore, badass guys, they would say, oh, he

326
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Speaker 2: was a drinker, and I was like, nah, I didn't drink.

327
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Speaker 2: And one day when I'm sixteen, he was angry. Brenda

328
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Speaker 2: left kind of humiliating him and stuff, and so he

329
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Speaker 2: walks into the kitchen. My brother is drying the dishes,

330
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Speaker 2: Paul's washing them I'm drying them. My dad comes in

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Speaker 2: and we're just like terrified, and we're skinny, skinny, skinny kids,

332
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Speaker 2: real skinny. And my dad comes in and he all

333
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Speaker 2: of a sudden sucker punches my brother in a rib

334
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Speaker 2: and Paul winces. And this is the worst memory of

335
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Speaker 2: my life. Of all the terrible things I've done and

336
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Speaker 2: all the terrible thing's done to me, this is the

337
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Speaker 2: worst moment of my life, hands down. My dad punches

338
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Speaker 2: Paul in the ribs, pounces on his neck, grabs his neck,

339
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Speaker 2: and then starts dunking Paul's head into the soap water,

340
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Speaker 2: the dishwater do and I'm standing there paralyzed. Now, I

341
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,120
Speaker 2: have a lot of heart in my body. At the time,

342
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Speaker 2: I'm very arrogant. I feel like I can do. I'm

343
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Speaker 2: going to grow up in the world. I'm going to

344
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Speaker 2: be something. I just don't know what yet. I have

345
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Speaker 2: all this confidence in myself, and right there I am

346
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Speaker 2: shown to be a complete coward because I'm sitting there

347
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Speaker 2: watching my brother get dunked and I don't do anything

348
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Speaker 2: except freeze, and he keeps getting dunked, and at one

349
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Speaker 2: point he looks up at me with terror in his eyes,

350
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Speaker 2: and I can't do anything. And he finally lefts my

351
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Speaker 2: brother up the third time and he leads into his

352
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Speaker 2: ear and he says, you should have died instead of

353
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Speaker 2: your mother. Oh my god. So that night I have

354
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Speaker 2: to kill myself. That's the first time I confidence, susaid,

355
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Speaker 2: I cannot be this guy. I cannot handle this new

356
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Speaker 2: version of me that has been shown me. I'm a coward.

357
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Speaker 2: I have no guts here. I am thinking I'm this

358
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Speaker 2: and I'm this, and it does not comport. Man, it

359
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 2: does not fit. But I have to accept the fact

360
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Speaker 2: that I'm a coward. I let him do that on

361
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Speaker 2: my brother. I didn't do anything, and I hate on myself.

362
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Speaker 2: I sit with this for like six months, hating myself,

363
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Speaker 2: wanting to die. I don't like this at all. My

364
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 2: dad gets a new girlfriend. When he gets this new girlfriend,

365
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Speaker 2: we like. I like her so much, and it was Susie,

366
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Speaker 2: sweetheart of a woman, and I'm like this, I'm gonna

367
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 2: sabotage that relations to so he gets Susie's a girlfriend.

368
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,320
Speaker 2: And when he gets Susie's girlfriend, I'm gonna sabotage. And

369
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Speaker 2: we go out to Dinhal and this how sweet she is.

370
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,520
Speaker 2: She takes us out of steak dinner and at the time,

371
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 2: Sizzler was the jam. Sizzler was the jam. We're talking

372
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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight something I am. She takes us out,

373
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 2: we're having dinner, and I start telling her litany of

374
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Speaker 2: the things he's done to us, right, the beatings and

375
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,000
Speaker 2: the brutality, And then all of a sudden, I realized, Man,

376
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,400
Speaker 2: I'm just painting myself to look like a big sissy myself,

377
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,480
Speaker 2: like I'm always getting beat up. And so I remember

378
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 2: specifically grabbing the steak knaf there and they had those

379
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 2: really nice steak nows, you know, woodhand but it's a

380
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,560
Speaker 2: good steak. Now, I remember, if he does it to

381
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Speaker 2: me again, I'm gonna stab him the neck. And so

382
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 2: he says, no, Joey, don't do that. Put it down.

383
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,399
Speaker 2: Violence doesn't help your sweet sweetheart. And I did that

384
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,640
Speaker 2: because I wanted to take back some of the you know,

385
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,880
Speaker 2: like I'm over here just doing nothing but talking about

386
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,680
Speaker 2: how I'm being beat on and as sissy. I feel

387
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,480
Speaker 2: like I'm as sissy now. So I put a little

388
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,880
Speaker 2: matra on my base in my face, and she puts

389
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Speaker 2: me down and says, don't do it. Well, now it's

390
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,679
Speaker 2: in my head, and I'm thinking, you know what's in

391
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 2: your head?

392
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,960
Speaker 4: Stabbing your dad in the neck with a sacking.

393
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,280
Speaker 2: My dad in the neck. Right, that's when I say it. Now,

394
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,359
Speaker 2: I tell her, listen, you cannot tell my dad. If

395
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 2: you tell my dad we're in trouble, you need to

396
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 2: leave him and do it quick, be clever about it.

397
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,520
Speaker 2: But she's so sweet. She can't lie. There's no how

398
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 2: to lie. So all she can do is just pull

399
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 2: back from my dad. And someone like my dad, who's

400
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,160
Speaker 2: like a con man. Now at this point, he's selling insurance,

401
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,679
Speaker 2: a different kind of like it's like the pulpit and

402
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 2: insurance salesman the same thing. They're trying to save you

403
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 2: for fire. So he's just assurance agement. Yeah, just call

404
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 2: him all comment. But he can read. He can read

405
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,240
Speaker 2: that something that's happened.

406
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 4: Right.

407
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,200
Speaker 2: And finally a week later we go to wash clothes

408
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 2: and stuff. He doesn't know, but he suspects. And here's

409
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,679
Speaker 2: how we find out. A week later we go do

410
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 2: laundry and long and the short of it is, I

411
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 2: you know, it's a seventies. A lot of people wore polyester.

412
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 2: There was disco era. I ruined, like half my dad's wardrobe.

413
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 2: Accidentally putting that stuff in a hot dryer ruined its

414
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 2: shrunk everything. Right, He's so angry because we're so poor,

415
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,119
Speaker 2: Like you know, he's he went bankrupt. He's in a

416
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,919
Speaker 2: bad way after the divorce. It broke him. And so

417
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,119
Speaker 2: now we're really in the poor place. And I've just

418
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,679
Speaker 2: ruined half his wardrobe. Well now the stress of all

419
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 2: this thing's going on and stuff, and so I go home.

420
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 2: I get punched a little bit. He throws me in

421
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,920
Speaker 2: the room and I'm sitting there and they say, hey, Joey,

422
00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,679
Speaker 2: come over here, and I come in there. I'm trembling,

423
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 2: you know, and he's like, hey, you know, Susie told

424
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 2: me what you told her, and I just want to

425
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 2: let you know that I'm all right, I understand you

426
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,560
Speaker 2: felt like you had to tell her. I just need

427
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 2: you admit that you tell her so we can clear

428
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 2: it up.

429
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 4: Oh, he's tricking you.

430
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 2: And that was the first time and the last time

431
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 2: that I ever confessed to a crime. He said, you

432
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,360
Speaker 2: just have to, you know, just please just admit what's

433
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 2: going on. That's it. And I'm like, all right, and

434
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 2: now here's the thing. As a kid. You want to

435
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,120
Speaker 2: be right with your parents. Man, you do, you gonna

436
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,160
Speaker 2: have shitty parents, and there's a point where you come

437
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,160
Speaker 2: extremely disillusioned, but you want to be right with you.

438
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,440
Speaker 2: Every child is born wanting to be loved and love

439
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 2: their parents. That's it, and that's all. I don't care

440
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 2: who you are in this moment. I'm like, maybe he

441
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 2: is being magnanimous, right, he has shown magnanimity in time,

442
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 2: so I admit to it. Oh my god. Beating commences.

443
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 2: First a tea box thrown on me, but by the

444
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,719
Speaker 2: end of it, he leaves the house. I have a concussion.

445
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 2: I don't know at the time, but I'm nursing a

446
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 2: couple of fractures, a rib in an elbow. I'm beat

447
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 2: up real good. My dad his run down to the

448
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 2: seventy eleven. We don't have a phone because we're, like

449
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 2: I said, we're broke. He's going to seven eleven to

450
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 2: break up with Susie. This is what I find out later.

451
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 2: While he's gone. I put my brother in the bathroom,

452
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 2: I lock him in. I go to the kitchen and

453
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 2: I pull out a steak knife and I walk over

454
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 2: to the bedroom. I put it under the pillar and

455
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 2: I just sit there and I wait again, we're going

456
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 2: towards how does somebody decide to rub a bank? This

457
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 2: is all towards that. My dad comes in, comes to

458
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,199
Speaker 2: the bedroom door, and now he's ready. I've seen him

459
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 2: many times before, the choreography of a beating. Right. First,

460
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 2: he's all loose in the neck. He's on the walls

461
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 2: of his feet. You know, he's loose. You're loose, you're

462
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 2: ready for it. He looks at me over there, you know,

463
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 2: glares at me. Then he looks over on the other

464
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,920
Speaker 2: side of the room and he sees a weight set,

465
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 2: glares at me, weight set, starts walking into this weight

466
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 2: set and we're talking about, you know, o big old

467
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 2: bar bell. And in those days, it was like the

468
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 2: weights of twenty five pound twenty pound cement blocks with

469
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 2: plastic around him.

470
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 3: They're like made out of that garbage can thick plastic exactly,

471
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 3: and they're the kind of and they don't really the

472
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 3: kind of like bulbous.

473
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember those, but they.

474
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 2: Do have a really strong, big, strong metal gadget to

475
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 2: tie him and loosen man. Yes, I'm thinking, like what

476
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 2: am I? What's he gonna use to hit me? And

477
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 2: no matter which one of those three pieces the bar,

478
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 2: the weight, the nodule that ties it, tightens it. I'm through.

479
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 2: This is like a que level of improvised savagery, right yeah.

480
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay, screw it, and I grabbed the

481
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: knife out and I stand up and now I'm standing

482
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 2: there with a with a steak knife in my hand.

483
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 2: He sees me, he drops the weight because I stand

484
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 2: up with the knife I'm holding, and he season he

485
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: drops away and he's like, put it down, put it down,

486
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,719
Speaker 2: And I'm just standing there. Now I've not done this before,

487
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: but I have thought about it, and I'm thinking that

488
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 2: neck is a kill shot. What do I know I've

489
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 2: learned since then. I've never stabbed in on the neck again.

490
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 2: But I thinking that's gonna kill him because I need

491
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 2: to kill him because if I don't, he'll kill me.

492
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 2: Back on once, I put a pin in that real quick.

493
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 2: When he told my brother, you suld have died instead

494
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 2: of your mother. Something important happens. Somebody clicked in me

495
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 2: that gets me to this point. Until that point, I

496
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 2: had twin traumas my mom's death and the brutality, who

497
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 2: were experiencings and they were happy. Next to each other,

498
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 2: but never they never were connected. I see when he says,

499
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 2: you should have died instead of your mother. We're getting

500
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 2: beat up and he's talking about the death of my mother,

501
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 2: and now they're locked, and I think, oh shit, he

502
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 2: wants us to be dead too. He wishes my brother

503
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 2: was dead. That means, by extension, his children are expendable.

504
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: He wants us dead. He's using the dead language. That's

505
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 2: one of the reasons they accelerated to me, this idea

506
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 2: that oh shit, he could kill us or I could

507
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 2: kill myself. But this is like, in my head, I've

508
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 2: made this be a big thing. So now I'm standing

509
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 2: there with the knife. I've thought about it. It's time

510
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 2: for me to stand up do the right thing. I'm

511
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 2: not a coward, and I'm showing him I'm not a coward.

512
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 2: And he starts walking to me, and you give it

513
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 2: to me, give it to me, and I charge him.

514
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 2: And when I charge him, he puts his arm up

515
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 2: and I go to swing and I don't hit him

516
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: because he has his arm up, and we're like now,

517
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: I'm like ahh, and I just and I end up

518
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 2: and he turns his head and by I end up

519
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 2: snabbing right here in the back of the neck. And

520
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: then I start twisting it, try and break it off

521
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: in his neck. Oh my god. And he's like ah,

522
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: he's reaching like ah, you kill me, you kill me,

523
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: and he falls to the carpet. And at that point,

524
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 2: you know, I was raised religious and all this stuff,

525
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 2: and so my feeling is like I have to say something,

526
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: and I do him being a dramatic kid. I stand

527
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: over him. I say something like, this is what you

528
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 2: put You brought this on yourself. I didn't kill you

529
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 2: killed yourself kind of thing, right.

530
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm surprised to have a Bible quote ready, dude,

531
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 3: that would have been could have.

532
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: Been this is what thy hand asked rot. It feels

533
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: like it almost feels like I'm I have to put

534
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: a biblical note on it, right, So I do kind.

535
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 3: Of be like, this is like some pulp fiction stuff

536
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 3: where Samuel L.

537
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 4: Jackson's like reading the yelling.

538
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly. So, but I do say something like, no,

539
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 2: I didn't kill you, brought this on yourself thing right,

540
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: but in the biblical sense. And at this point I

541
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 2: run Paul Paul, and Paul's a ready at the front door.

542
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 2: Joey what's happened. What's happened? I got blood on me,

543
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: in everything, and I'm like, oh, go go and we run.

544
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: We run in my aunt's house. We run in and

545
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 2: I'm like, call the police. My dad's dead. I just

546
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 2: killed him. Oh my god. And at this point we've

547
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 2: run a mile to her house and we were track athletes.

548
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: I broke the school record, and I like, tell his

549
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: brag about in the three thirty did you.

550
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 4: Have broken ribs at this point?

551
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm still like, you got adrenaline? Adrenaline?

552
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 4: Right, yeah?

553
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: And I'm scared to death because all I'm being driven

554
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 2: by is that he could take that knife on and

555
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: chase me. This is the monster that I've been afraid

556
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 2: of my whole life. Yeah, And as much as I

557
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: think I killed him, I'm still afraid that he's gonna

558
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 2: pull out of his neck and come after us, right right, So,

559
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: because he's just so monstrous in my imagination. So we

560
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 2: get there, I tell her. She calls the cops. And

561
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: you know, I've written about this recently. Like Man, her

562
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: own brother, like her, she was born and my dad

563
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 2: was right after. They were very close, and for part

564
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 2: of that afternoon, she believed her brother was dead. I've

565
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: never processed that until the last couple of years, because

566
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 2: she's now dead and I feel like I see the

567
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,719
Speaker 2: story from so many different angles now. But Mink Gloria.

568
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: We go to her house, they call the cops, The

569
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 2: cops go to him, and bottom line is, my dad

570
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: has some drama with himself. On the other end, he lives,

571
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: he survives barely. They pull him in and he, you know,

572
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: he tried to come himself.

573
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 3: Bottom line, how come you didn't go to jail for

574
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 3: stabbing your dad or did you?

575
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: Well, here's why. That's so. What happens is we get

576
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: the police come, they go look for my dad, and

577
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: then they get me and they take me to jail

578
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: and Alhambra. And when they take me there, the detective

579
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 2: actually's interviewing me. He's treating me as if I laid

580
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: in wait it was attempted murder on my father, because

581
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: that's what I'm confessing to I got the knife, I

582
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 2: sat there, I waited for when he came back, I

583
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: stabbed him, tried to kill him. And I'm bragging about

584
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 2: it because now I feel like King Calm, you know,

585
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I slaid the giant. I'm him,

586
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 2: I'm all that, and again the adrenaline. Well, a certain point,

587
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: I'm really mad at him because I'm like, oh, all

588
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 2: you asshole authoritarians. You back each other's play, You're backing

589
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 2: my dad's play. The church is already taking a peek

590
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: at this, and they didn't punish him, Like I'm just thinking,

591
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,719
Speaker 2: all authority, you're all backing each other play. That's how

592
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: it goes. And he's now sitting there basically I'm telling

593
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 2: him I've been brutalized that Well, why did you call

594
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: the police reader dad left? Why didn't you run another house?

595
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 2: Like nobody asked that question now because you know everything

596
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: about domestic abuse and how you you know you're paralyzed

597
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: on Everyone knows that now. But back then he acted

598
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: like I in the wrong. Well, not long after that,

599
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: I can't breathe very well. It hurts to breathe, you

600
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 2: know when you're when you have a crack rinking ribs. Yeah, yeah,

601
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: it hurts to breathe. And then my elbums. I'm storrying

602
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 2: to feel all the pain of it.

603
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, the adrenalines wearing off.

604
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: They get one of the female police officers taking me

605
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: to the hospital and then we find out that I've

606
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,719
Speaker 2: been brutalized. You know, it's right there, actually show everything,

607
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: so there's no more talk about punishing me for anything

608
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: I was. You know, I was defending myself. And then

609
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: by that point my dad had been resting, and you know,

610
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: he said what happened, So.

611
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 4: He admitted he beat you up and that us dad.

612
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 2: He admitted everything, everything okay, and he was contricted. One

613
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: thing I'll give my dad after it was all said

614
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: and done, obviously he never hit us again. But when

615
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 2: we went to foster care, because we went at of

616
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: foster homes. At foster care, the county trigg us away

617
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 2: from I'm obviously he was a delinquent father. But he

618
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 2: jumped through every hoop they told him to jump through

619
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 2: to get us back, and he humiliated himself. He had

620
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: to come into the homes. I was not nice to him.

621
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 2: It's like the old who song like something about the

622
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: new boss same as the old boss. You know, It's

623
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: like like that was my turn to be h be

624
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: the jerk towards him. You're right, I wasn't magnanimous and

625
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: I had the power I had, you know, figuratively, I

626
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: had social services on speed out. They came to see

627
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: us all the time, whatever, so I could threaten him

628
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: with that shit. So anyway, I was not nice to him,

629
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: my senior when I went back, But he was humble.

630
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: He knew what he did. He accepted that, and you know,

631
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 2: and to be honest with you, for years and years, decades,

632
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 2: he beat himself up for that stuff.

633
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: How did trying to essentially kill your dad? How did

634
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 3: that change your life? I mean, did you have a

635
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: sense of power at that point? Did you regret it

636
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 3: at all? I mean, you're in foster care. Surely you're

637
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 3: thinking I did the right thing, or I did it

638
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 3: or I didn't do the right thing. Did you have

639
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 3: any sort of feelings about what you had done?

640
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, first of all, one of the worst experiences

641
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: of my life, but one of the most powerful observations,

642
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,719
Speaker 2: like as a human looking at human dynamics, was that

643
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 2: first night that I get to McLaren Hall and it's

644
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: all the kids that have been brutalized. I'm sixteen, so

645
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 2: I'm sort of at the older age of the spectrum.

646
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 4: Is this like an orphanage McLaren Hall.

647
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: Now it's McLaren Halls where you go when they take

648
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,239
Speaker 2: you from your parents. Initially, they put you in this

649
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: big place you're taking out of the home, put a

650
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: county care and it's just this big facility where you

651
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: are while you're going to court. You got to go

652
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 2: to court to get taken from your parents officially and

653
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: all this stuff. And then they tried to place you

654
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 2: in foster homes. But you have to stay somewhere until

655
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 2: you're in a foster home. And this is where they

656
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: take you, like first night, this is where you go. Right.

657
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: It's been closed down now because of a lot of

658
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: use occurred there and all this stuff. So, oh, it

659
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: was terrible. But in what I saw there when I

660
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 2: was there, there's a lot of little kids and we're

661
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: talking patches over their eyes, burns, bruises, crutches. It's the

662
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,479
Speaker 2: worst of the worst kids brutalized in La County. This

663
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: is where they are, and they've all been rescued, they've

664
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: all been emancipated, they've all been rescued from the abuse,

665
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: and now they can go somewhere else and start over.

666
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: And what happens is the end of the night, we

667
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 2: all start going to bed, and I'm in bed and

668
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I start hearing sniffling. First, I

669
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: think somebody has a cough, maybe a cold. And it's

670
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: open doors kind of right, so you can hear things

671
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: down the hall, and all of this a sudden like

672
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: it's not just in your own room. There's no doors

673
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 2: on the on these things. It's like imagine, but it's

674
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: an office where they have all these different spaces, but

675
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: you can see in here. It's kind of like that. Anyway,

676
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: I start hearing sniffling, and I start hearing and I realize, oh,

677
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: so I think somebody's crying, and then more and more,

678
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: and then pretty soon it gets becomes like want mommy,

679
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: and these kids start crying to go home. I want

680
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: to go back to my mommy and my dad. And

681
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: I'm sitting there like, what the I just tried to

682
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: kill my dadah. And what I realized that night is

683
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 2: I'm not wired like everybody else. And I went to

684
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: prison and I saw the same thing. I'm not the

685
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: only one who was treated like that, but I'm the

686
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: only one I ever met in the entire time who

687
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: tried to kill their father. The closest anyone got several

688
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: guys their dad was beating on their mom, and they

689
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 2: picked up a band. They threatened him or they jumped

690
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: on him, and a couple brothers beat up their drunk dad.

691
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: That was as bad as it got. Nobody did what

692
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: I did. Now one person that I meet try to

693
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: kill their dad. So I knew in that little McClaren

694
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: hall place, I'm not wired like everyone else. I wanted

695
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: to get there. I'm gone. I'm going forward, and I

696
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: know forward is anxious, and anxiety ran in it because

697
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: I don't know where I'm going to go. I don't

698
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: know where I'm gonna be, and I'm feeling the anxiety

699
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: of the future because it's coming on me. It's like, oh,

700
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: everything's about to change. But I'm like, I'm about the chaos.

701
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: I'm about the change agent. I need to go there.

702
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: One thing I'm not doing. I'm not lurching back to

703
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 2: the bondage I just escaped from and all these kids

704
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: want to go back. And I tell you this is

705
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: important because it made me feel like, oh, I'm going

706
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: to start looking at people. One way are two ways

707
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: one division. You are either the kind of person who

708
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: confronts change and emancipation with vigor and fear, yes, but

709
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: drive and like, I'm gonna embrace it or your person

710
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: when change comes and offers you an opportunity like oh shit,

711
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: gonna go back, gonna lurtch back to a bondage. I'd

712
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 2: rather be small. I'm not gonna I'm too afraid. And

713
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: I'm the guy who goes that way. So I was

714
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: always interested in meeting people and taking a measure of

715
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: them and saying, Okay, you're that person or you're that person.

716
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: And that night was important to me because it realized

717
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: I'm the guy who can try and kill their father

718
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: and be cool with it, and which means everybody else

719
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: in the world, you're not even my blood. The whole

720
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 2: world could be a victim to me because if I

721
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: got over that one taboo thing where you're not supposed

722
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: to kill your father, and you know, that's like, that's biblical,

723
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: that's mythological. I mean, all the great Greek myth Roman stories,

724
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 2: they have, all the even you know, Shakespeare literature, father

725
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 2: son shit, it's important, a big deal the dramas between them,

726
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: and killing the father is not a good thing. So

727
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: I'm that guy, right, I feel like I have an

728
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: epic soul. So that's also part of the arrogance and

729
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: the narcissism and the grandiosity. All that's now growing up

730
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: in me. Right, It's like, oh shit, here's who we are.

731
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 2: Back to your question, how do you get to be

732
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: the guy who bankrupts? Well, I realize I'm not bad

733
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: for society. They have all these moralities, but they're too

734
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: timid for me. I've seen past the curtain, and I

735
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: see that everyone will suckered into believe in my dad.

736
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: They're also suckered to believe that the police are cool.

737
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: They're suckered to believe that every of the politicians are

738
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: like I become, in my heart like the little sociopath

739
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: looking at like you guys are falling for the okie doke,

740
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: And I'm not the guy who falls for the okie doke.

741
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: I'm the guy who stabs the oki dok and says,

742
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: get the hell out of my way. I'm not buying it. Right.

743
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: So time goes on. I graduate high school and very

744
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: poor senior, very very poor. My dad struggles and everything.

745
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: I leave the house. Three days later, I go work

746
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: in the San Fernando Valley and I'm going working full

747
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: two full time jobs. I'm like, this sucks. Yeah, of course,

748
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: because I remember I feel like I'm a giant. Now

749
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: I'm like I've become I know who I am. I'm

750
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: this guy who was its verve right, I have gall

751
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: I have all of this, and I have I have weapons.

752
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: You know, I'm like a guy who can do something.

753
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: But I'm not feeling I'm going to college Eastelli Community College,

754
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: though I did tell her when I went to school

755
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 2: back east, and they'd say, where is that Eastellate College.

756
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: I was trying to be arrogain about who I was,

757
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: trying to fit my ego. However, the fact that my

758
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: ex wife went to Prinson and I would tell for

759
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 2: a grad school and I would always say, how come

760
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: you don't tell anyone you went to Prinon because she'd

761
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: always say, she goes to school back east.

762
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 3: That's the difference between somebody went to Prinsient and somebody

763
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 3: who went to prison.

764
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 4: You know what that's.

765
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, she went to Yale. I went to jail.

766
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyway, exactly so.

767
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, all that to say that I'm doing school.

768
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: But the thing I want to say about Young East

769
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: Elly Community College is I'm going to college and I

770
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 2: realize what am I doing. I'm going to get out

771
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: of what I'm going to be a lawyer. I'm gonna

772
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: be I'm gonna make forty five. This is in nineteen eighty,

773
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: so in those days, you know, forty five fifty thousand

774
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: dollars a lot for somebody to come out of college

775
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: and make that money, or it's a big deal. And

776
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, wait, what that doesn't sound right? Man? Somebody

777
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: who has what I have And I'm feeling it. I'm

778
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 2: really feeling this like something is roaring as I have

779
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 2: to be much bigger. I have to dial up my narrative.

780
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, but this line, this track, Yeah,

781
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 2: let me go to college, let me do that. That's

782
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 2: not I have no feel for that. And again, this

783
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: is where the erosion of posterity has already occurred. And

784
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: I can't have a feel for ten years down the line,

785
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: I'll behave but I have a payoff a mortgage, but like,

786
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: none of that, and so it's already happened to me.

787
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 2: I don't have a feel for posterity. Remember my mom

788
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: died at twenty six. There's also included in this the

789
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: feeling like I just got to make it a twenty six.

790
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 2: I don't know what happens after night. I just got

791
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 2: to make it a twenty six because that's where the

792
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: cutoff dat is for me. Am. I at a lot

793
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: of people think, oh, seventy six, that's where you know

794
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: when your parents die. That's approximately the age I was like,

795
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm gonna make it a twenty six.

796
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 2: I just got to make it a twenty six. And

797
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: after that, I have no feel for them. So put

798
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 2: all that in the mix, and I think, you know what,

799
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do all these years here, so I

800
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 2: can go make forty five thousand dollars. That's it. So

801
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: I start committing little bullshit crimes. I start bouncing checks,

802
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 2: which is the easiest thing to do, and I start

803
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 2: borrowing money on not paying it back. I start doing

804
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: little frauds and then bigger little frauds, but you know,

805
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: all small scale. Because I'm not a gang member, because

806
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: I'm not a criminal, because I don't have anyone in

807
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 2: my family to bring me into it. I have to

808
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 2: connive my way into the underworld because I don't know anything.

809
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: So I commit a bunch of petty, petty crimes. But

810
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: I committed a lot of them, and I end up

811
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: being wanted in five different counties. Oh wow, the worst

812
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 2: of it. I do frauds some guy out of a

813
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 2: thirty two thousand dollars seven thirty three IBMW, which the

814
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: top of the line at that time.

815
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 4: You just bought it, but then the check bounced or whatever.

816
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was elaborate. I mean I literally wrote him

817
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 2: a check and told them, hey, my banker's not there

818
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 2: till this afternoon. He can tell you this check is good,

819
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: and then I'll come back and pick the car because

820
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: it was you know, I wrote it for thirty five

821
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: or thirty two thousand dollars. So I drive down LA

822
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: for Santa Barbara, and I gave I crossed out the

823
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: guy's number. I gave him my dad's phone number, and

824
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: he calls me and then I pretend, literally pretended an

825
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: Asian banker on the phone now talking. I mean, it

826
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 2: was so, it was so and he buys it. He's

827
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 2: like it just I have a checker for Joe Layer.

828
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: I'm not even gonna do the voice. It was so ridiculous.

829
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: The voice canceled that. I'm just saying it happened.

830
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 3: Hollywood people got to figure out how to deal with

831
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 3: that delicately.

832
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really funny.

833
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: But the fact is that, you know, obviously at that

834
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 2: time I didn't care, but he bought it. I was

835
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 2: a client, a sinker. So I drive up there that night, Hey,

836
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: did you talk to my my bankers? Oh yeah, and

837
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 2: you give me the pink slip and everything. I'm gone.

838
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: I go and I sell it and that the next

839
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: day in San Diego, and then I become a fugitive

840
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: in Mexico. Right. So I'm down there with a lot

841
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 2: of money that I've just cashed out, everything, all the

842
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: kinds I've done and everything, you know, you know, close

843
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 2: forty thousand those and so I go to Mexico. I'm

844
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: a fugitive. I told everyone down there that I'm that

845
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 2: my family's dead, I don't have anyone, and I'm gonna

846
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 2: start over. I'm like, now, I'm a criminal. I'm a

847
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: bad guy. And I make some friends down there in

848
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 2: a family, part of the Corona family. In fact, I

849
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: go there and make friends with them, and one day

850
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: I hit my money on walls and all over the

851
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: place in the house. I come home one day and

852
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: somebody who's you know, a shooter criminal to me, they

853
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 2: came in and stole my money. I only have twenty

854
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 2: five hundred bucks two thousand bucks in my bucket. I'm done.

855
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 2: I've many money. I had to rip off a lot

856
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 2: of people to do that, defraud them, and in order

857
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 2: de frond, people got to get close to them, right,

858
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: And I don't have that kind of time. No, I

859
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 2: can't go back to the United States. I'm like, what

860
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: do I do? So I'm sitting there on my couch

861
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: drinking a corona, and I start thinking, you know, hey, well,

862
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: you know I'm in Mexico. This is the place of

863
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: the bandido, right. But I remember that bon Trevilla, who

864
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: who was a general during the Revolutionary War. Bonrevilla used

865
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: to come up to the United States and he would

866
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: rob post offices, banks, and then he would take his

867
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: army back down into Mexico. So I'm like, you know,

868
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: maybe I'll do that move. Maybe I go up there

869
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: and start robbing places. Now, remember at this point, I

870
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: won't rob anything, no seventy eleven, no nothing. I'm not

871
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: a robber. Now we get to your first question, how

872
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: does somebody do it? One thing I know is I

873
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: have come to several points in my story in my

874
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: life already by that point where I did not like

875
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 2: who I was, and I knew I was bigger than

876
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: where I was. I just jumped into my future and

877
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: I innovated, and I became the next thing I was

878
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: getting victimized by my dad. Oh, I see a future

879
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: in which I'm bigger. I innovate and I become that

880
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: bigger guy I tried to kill him. I come to

881
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: a place where I'm a petty criminal. I want to

882
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: go into crime. I don't know how to do it.

883
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: I just start like innovating. I turned myself from being

884
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: this good kid where everyone had aspirations for me, because

885
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 2: this real intelligent man, maybe a theologian, like all those

886
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: things I aspired to as a kid. I say, nope,

887
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: I innovate. I become a criminal. But I'm a petty criminal.

888
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: And now I'm here, and I say, I've been a

889
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: petty criminal. Now I can go to the United States.

890
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 2: I could dowloup my narrative, jump in the future, and

891
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 2: I'll become a real badass criminal. And that's what I do.

892
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 2: I drive up to l San Diego the next day.

893
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: I spend all day trying to figure out how to

894
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: rob a bank, and I rob a bank. By the

895
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 2: end of the day and when I robbed that bank

896
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: forty five hundred bucks first bank. Excited. I've turned myself

897
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 2: into a bankruper now, just like that.

898
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 4: Wow.

899
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 2: Because I knew I had the gumption, I knew I

900
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,959
Speaker 2: had the violence. I knew I had the greed because

901
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: I'd been so poor. I hated being poor, and so

902
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 2: it was a perfect marriage of greed and violence, and

903
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: so I make it happen. I'm excited. I'm staying at

904
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 2: Santa seeg Over that night. I get a good dinner,

905
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 2: pack up the car, and I'm there at the last

906
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: on ramp to Mexico. And right when I do, there's

907
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: a bunch of traffic and all the traffic is there

908
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: on the freeway because the Ighy Patrol has stopped the

909
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 2: traffic because they're looking for stolen cars periodically. They do

910
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 2: this because that's people are still in cars all time.

911
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 2: And that's at that point I get stop. I get arrested.

912
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: I get arrested for all the crimes that I had

913
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: done in They got me my five warrants, but they

914
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: don't arrest me for the bankrupt because they don't know

915
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 2: I did it, so I get to keep that money.

916
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: I go to prison and for two years while I

917
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: was in prison, I was like, all right, now I'm

918
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 2: going to be a bank rubber. That's it, and that's

919
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 2: all when I get out. And when I got out

920
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 2: two years later, for fourteen months, I robbed thirty banks,

921
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: sometimes several in one day. That's how I became a

922
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: bank robber, because I lost all sense that my life

923
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 2: was going to be long at all. I just wanted

924
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: to grab the loot and get the hell out of

925
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: Dodge just fast as possible, and go spend it and

926
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: have fun. That was my ethos, and so I did.

927
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 3: I got to just say, the eighties and nineties must

928
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 3: have kind of been a good era to be a

929
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 3: bank robber. Maybe they have one crappy tape that's blurry.

930
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: You know these things you see on like crime TV

931
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 3: shows where it's like, hey, this is the person. It's like, okay,

932
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 3: it's a blob, probably a guy wearing darkish clothes, one

933
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 3: hundred and ten to two hundred and ten pounds. He

934
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 3: has a hat and glasses, and you're just like, how

935
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: the who is that? You know, there's no cell phone pings,

936
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 3: there's no facial recognition, there's not like they're not looking

937
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 3: at able to zoom in on the brand on his clothing,

938
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 3: like none of that exists.

939
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: And there was the reason why La was the bank

940
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: rebby capital of the world at that time, right, so,

941
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 2: and I would just part of it. Why La, Well,

942
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 2: a lot of freeways for one, Oh, I see you

943
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 2: closed a lot for you. So you get on freeway

944
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: and guess what, you go left, you go right, and

945
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 2: then you're going to come out an intersection and then

946
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 2: you can go northwest east, you know, like you can.

947
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 2: There's all these options. And then secondly, tons of banks,

948
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of ways to get away, meaning

949
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: like me, I had a way of doing it where

950
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: I would rob a bank and I'd never I never

951
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: had jump in my car right away, I'd had I

952
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: always parked my car behind a building, a building I

953
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: could run through to get to the other side, so

954
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: nobody could see my car when they ran out of

955
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: the bank. There was a lot of things like that.

956
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: But how did I plan or whatever? It was just

957
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 2: you know, I was just robbing mostly towlers, so that

958
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: was you know, It's not like I was heat or

959
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 2: anything like that. I robbed a couple of vaults, but

960
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 2: mostly it was just you know Towler stuff. I just

961
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 2: knew that I was slick about how I would never

962
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 2: get caught. Then no one ever saw my car because

963
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: I was I didn't have my car close to me,

964
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: and you know, you learn along the way things that

965
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: work for you. One of the things that I learned

966
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: when I walked out. Once I walked out into a

967
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: parking lot, I could see the people walk out of

968
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 2: the bank, run out of the bank, and immediately they

969
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: start swooving their heads. This if they had looked up,

970
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 2: they could see me thirty feet away among the cars.

971
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: I was just staying there literally watching them. But they

972
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: were so sort of like conditioned too, looking for a

973
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 2: getaway car that was right there that everyone can jump into.

974
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: So they were seeing which one of these cars here

975
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: driving by might he be in. And I was able

976
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 2: to look at them and then turnrounto just casually walk away.

977
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: No one saw me, And so it confirmed to me

978
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 2: that as long as that park a walk away through something,

979
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 2: they're not going to come out and be looking for

980
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: the horizon, their hands, their eyes are going to be here, right,

981
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 2: And so you learn along the way to little things

982
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: like that. So that benefited me. I walked in a

983
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: bank once, and it took so long to just get

984
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: like whatever, a thousand dollars or something out of these people,

985
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: this one teller and there was only one tiller at

986
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: the time, because it was just right when the bank

987
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 2: opened up, and there was nobody else in the lobby,

988
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: just me and this person they were taking forever. I

989
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: was so angry when I walked out, even though I

990
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: knew that they were now had set off the alarm.

991
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: I walked into the bank right next to it and

992
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: rob it even though police are coming, and walked down

993
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: my car and got away. So it was like part

994
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: of it was just ballsy too. Remember, you know, I

995
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 2: already had stepped through fear on the other side of

996
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: fears where you get things done, so you just have

997
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: to walk through the fear to get the thing done.

998
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: I had to do that to stab my dad. It

999
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: was a very there and sometimes your body most of

1000
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 2: the time, almost every time, on the way to bank robbery,

1001
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: as also on the way to commit any crimes that

1002
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 2: I committed when I was in prison, any assaults or whatever.

1003
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 2: There's a part of your body and knows like, okay,

1004
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: we might die, we might get shot, we might it's

1005
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 2: gonna be it could be bad for me. I'm banking,

1006
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 2: then it's not, but it could be. And so your

1007
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: body wants to shut down. And in my case, on

1008
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 2: the way to the bank robbery, I would tremble and

1009
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: my teeth would start grinding, my stomach would start hurting.

1010
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: My hands would like jump off the steering where like

1011
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 2: I just I couldn't. There's just so much energy in

1012
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 2: my hands. And then a wave of fatigue would hit me,

1013
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: like if I pulled over, I feel like I would

1014
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 2: have been embassy for three hours. It was like it's

1015
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: almost that my body was saying red lines stop, stop stop,

1016
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 2: you know you get the train cross. It was really intense,

1017
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: and so I would just push through it by bringing

1018
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 2: up all the rage. I would just remember hu million

1019
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: things in my life, and the rage would come up,

1020
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: and then I needed all the noise would quill in

1021
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: my body, and I was steal. And that's how I

1022
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: go in. I would march through it and get it done.

1023
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 2: Not unlike you know how I ended up doing what

1024
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 2: I did as a prisoner, but also how I started

1025
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 2: with my father. I just had to get done. Yeah,

1026
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: I was standing on my dad. Can you put it down?

1027
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: Put it down. I'm like, I got resolved, and I'm

1028
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 2: gonna do it, and then I do it.

1029
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 3: A lot of this sounds like the same thing you

1030
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 3: hear from a keynote speaker who's talking about.

1031
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 4: Winning a boxing match, a super Bowl or.

1032
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: Starting some sort of really big business, except for you

1033
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: were robbing banks. Like you, you kind of were just

1034
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 3: a Catholic slash college education away from applying a lot

1035
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 3: of these same concepts and being you know, somebody who

1036
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 3: is I don't know, in Forbes instead of in Riker's Island,

1037
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 3: for example. Right, it's really crazy to hear about. I

1038
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 3: hope you don't mind that comparison. It's just it really

1039
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 3: is clear that you are a smart, talented person.

1040
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: Thank you. I mean it's when I came on. I

1041
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: wrote my memory, my memoir was we got a great

1042
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 2: review in the New Yorker magazine. I turned myself into

1043
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 2: a literary man.

1044
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 4: Did you see that coming out? Yeah?

1045
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 5: No?

1046
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 2: And but more partly it's like I got myself in

1047
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: the magazine I wanted to get into, which is the

1048
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: literary premier literary magazine in the country.

1049
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 4: How does this work?

1050
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 3: You walk in and you hand a note to the

1051
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 3: teller or if I just been watching too many movies.

1052
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: The first time I did that, and the issue is

1053
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 2: that when you drop, when you walk in you had

1054
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: a note, you've given a reason to look down and

1055
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 2: not look up. And that's what happened to me. I

1056
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: said a note the very first time, you know, the

1057
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: first one before I got arrested and went to for

1058
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 2: all those other things in San Diego. I slided the note,

1059
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: thinking I'm clever, and then she looks down. She wont

1060
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 2: to look up, and I'm like hey, and I grabbed

1061
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 2: the note and she's still holding on a note and

1062
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: I kind of moved the note around like come on,

1063
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: come on, hurry up, and she just gives you fris

1064
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: the note, right, She's like not going to look up.

1065
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 2: Why would she look up. She's better off just looking down,

1066
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 2: Like I don't want to pretend like you're not here.

1067
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 2: And so I have to now say, literally, like do

1068
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 2: meal money or put this corner and I'll shoot you.

1069
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 2: And I have my gut a little like I got

1070
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: a gun. And then she slowly looks up and she

1071
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 2: starts giving me the money, and I'm like I had

1072
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: to talk. I had to talk. The note was worthless.

1073
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: That's because I still had to open my mouth, right,

1074
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: So I never did a note again. And so, yeah,

1075
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 2: I had a thing that I would say every time.

1076
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: And you say, how do they get you? One of

1077
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 2: the ways to get you is they don't necessarily need

1078
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: to know who you are. They need to know what

1079
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: your mo is. My was we have a bomb, I

1080
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: have a gun, Give me the money now. You know,

1081
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: sometimes if I set it to somebody like a manager

1082
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 2: who looked like he didn't want to believe anything, I

1083
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 2: would say, we have a bomb, I have a gun,

1084
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 2: give me them. I now a blowerto I white throw

1085
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: in that last part, right, But the point is that

1086
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: it was enough to say I'm serious, we have a bomb,

1087
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: meaning there's other people like make it sound like it

1088
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: was more than me, like really threatening and shocking. So

1089
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 2: then I would say, now give me the big bills first,

1090
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: and this and that. That's how I did it. Now

1091
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: you go on to bank, Now you can't do that,

1092
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 2: like most of them have bandit class and all sorts

1093
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 2: of other stuff. So it's not like it was back then.

1094
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: There was no BANDI class. I robbed three banks where

1095
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 2: there was an actual guard in the bank.

1096
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 4: What do they do?

1097
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 3: They just go I'll call this one in when the

1098
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 3: guy leaves. Like, is that what the guard does? What's

1099
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 3: his job?

1100
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 2: Actually? Who knows who? Here's the thing. I went to

1101
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: this bank that was so big that he was way

1102
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 2: over in an entrance way over there, and it was

1103
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: kind of a rotunda kind of bank. It was huge.

1104
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: It was in a it was in San Diego somewhere

1105
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: in one of those rich neighborhoods, but it was almost

1106
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: like a rotanda inside. And then he was way over there.

1107
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: I walked in that door and I walked all the

1108
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 2: way over here to talk to him. So I robbed

1109
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 2: the bank, run out that way, and he was over there,

1110
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 2: and it was just like it was like he wasn't there.

1111
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 2: So the point of trying to make it not that

1112
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 2: I was some great bank rubber, but that in those

1113
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: days you could get away with it because it just

1114
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: wasn't that like it is. It wasn't like it is now.

1115
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: They have one door to get into, maybe two, and

1116
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 2: there's a guard there sometimes too. It doesn't stop people

1117
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 2: from rubber banks, but a lot of these bandit glass

1118
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,720
Speaker 2: things are determined anyway. And also banks don't keep money

1119
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 2: like they used to.

1120
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 4: There's no gold bullion the bank.

1121
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you had to check, you had to go and

1122
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: get a cash or you had to deposit it. You

1123
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 2: had to go into the bank, and on paydays you

1124
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 2: had the banks had to we have a lot of

1125
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: money and ATMs were there. But even then, you know,

1126
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 2: the ATMs were in the bank, so the money was

1127
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: in was in the bank there, right, because they had

1128
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 2: to fill up the bottom of it. Yeah, they still

1129
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: have to put in every ATM had to have one

1130
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand dollars some in the thing and

1131
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: then under some underneath it. There was a number it

1132
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,919
Speaker 2: had to have. So there was money on those days.

1133
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 2: But now you have online banking, you get you know,

1134
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 2: I don't have to go and I get deposit by

1135
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 2: sending him a picture of my check. You know, you

1136
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: move money around with online use apps to move money around.

1137
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: You don't have to go even deposit money. We withdraw

1138
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 2: money from atm. You know, there's all these ways that

1139
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 2: banks don't have to have money like they used to anyway.

1140
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 2: So that's your answer to question. That's how I robbed it.

1141
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 2: That's also when when they went to get me, they

1142
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: knew that they would look at them, right, I said

1143
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 2: this there, he said that here. Yeah.

1144
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, So what was the take back then, what you're

1145
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 4: leaving with?

1146
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 3: You said forty five hundred bucks, which is what like

1147
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 3: probably ten grand in today's money, or maybe more.

1148
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 2: So, the average bank robbery for teller of robberies is

1149
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 2: like twelve hundred bucks today. It might even be less today.

1150
00:48:58,760 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: This is back in the day.

1151
00:48:59,719 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 5: Wow.

1152
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 2: But because I had a couple big robberies, you know,

1153
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 2: twelve thousand, sixteen thousand.

1154
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 3: That's like five grand in today's money. So it's not

1155
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 3: that good for risking your life.

1156
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I had a thirty two. I went

1157
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: a vault and still thirty two thousand dollars out of it.

1158
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 2: So like seven thousand is what I averaged out of

1159
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: thirty banks. Seven thousand, eight thousand. Okay, it wasn't a lot,

1160
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 2: but it was a lot for fourteen months thirty bank robberies.

1161
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 2: But it wasn't and it was more than twelve hundred

1162
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 2: bucks a bank.

1163
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 4: How do you get into a vault though? Like, how

1164
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 4: does that work?

1165
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 2: The vault was savings and loans, and I walk in

1166
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 2: and I just tell the manager we got to get

1167
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 2: in the vault and let's go. And they take me

1168
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 2: to the vault and with somebody else they had. They

1169
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 2: needed two keys. They take me in there. I put

1170
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: them up against the walls. They just put transmitand your

1171
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 2: back noel down against the wall. And I started taking

1172
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: the money. And there's not much money that like I said,

1173
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 2: the bank, it was the savings a loan even it

1174
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: wasn't even really like a big bank. I take them

1175
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: in there, I get the money. I walk out the

1176
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: door to get to the from the back to the lobby,

1177
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 2: it's locked. So I just jump on the counter and

1178
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: jump off in the middle of the bank. If we

1179
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 2: were looking at me like, I just walk up. And

1180
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 2: then I went and robbed another bank. So that day

1181
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 2: I robbed two banks.

1182
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 3: And pardon me if I misunderstood. You robbed thirty eight banks.

1183
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 3: The average from each bank was seven thousand.

1184
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 4: Did I get that right?

1185
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 2: I robbed thirty banks.

1186
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 4: Thirty banks, okay, and the average I.

1187
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: Don't remember the exact one because I haven't done the county,

1188
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: but it was something if I recall correct, it was

1189
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 2: seven to eight thousand dollars per bank.

1190
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 3: So let me do thirty banks times seven thousand, two

1191
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 3: hundred and ten thousand dollars in like nineteen eighty money.

1192
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's close to two hundred and fifty for me,

1193
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 2: I remember, So I don't know what I was thinking.

1194
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 2: Maybe it was maybe it's eight thousand dollars.

1195
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 4: It's about a million bucks is your total take?

1196
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot of money. Yeah, you know.

1197
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 2: And the thing is, I'm not doing drugs. I don't

1198
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: do I wasn't a big party I was just a heatonist.

1199
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: So I was just like it was all about, like

1200
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 2: you know, like nice restaurants and nice clothes and taking

1201
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 2: odd friends to concerts that kind of thing. It wasn't

1202
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 2: big party. I wasn't the big drug guy. I wasn't spent.

1203
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: I wasn't that guy.

1204
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: Do you think you're going under the radar because people

1205
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 3: think bank robberies happened like they do in movies like

1206
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 3: gunshot in the air. Everybody get on the floor like

1207
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 3: you're just sort of going in getting some money. You

1208
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 3: walk out, calmly, walk through the parking lot, walk around

1209
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 3: the bank, get in your car and leave.

1210
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 2: It was really effective. But the other thing, that's two

1211
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: my favor was I didn't have to make a thing

1212
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 2: because when they asked the women like, do you show

1213
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: a gun? They said no, and they said, well then

1214
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 2: watch you get the money. It's because of his eyes.

1215
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 2: It was weird to read that. When I got the discovery,

1216
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: I was menacing enough to do it, and it was

1217
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 2: quiet menace. I didn't have to pull out a gun

1218
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 2: on it. I would just speak to way, you know

1219
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 2: how I spoke. I spoke to way my dad did

1220
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 2: when he menaced me as a boy. Just slow and

1221
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 2: time and just like giving and like the energy of that.

1222
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 2: I had it. I had a why because it was conditioned,

1223
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: habituated to it. So when I would deal up my

1224
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: thing and I would look at them and do it,

1225
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 2: they'd be like, oh okay. I was able to get

1226
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 2: things done, which is a sheer menace and intensity of

1227
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 2: my presence. Now that said, and also by that time

1228
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 2: I got to prison the first time two years and

1229
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 2: Skinny Joe went in and Joe came out, Oh yo,

1230
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 2: like bank Robert. Joe was not that other Joe. So

1231
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 2: so I now had and you know, I'd committed violence

1232
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 2: in prison too. Now I had this other new confidence

1233
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 2: to me. So I'd go in there and I walked

1234
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 2: in and I and I handled business the way I did,

1235
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: and I think that was to my advantage. Also, you know,

1236
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 2: I knew that I could make them do the thing

1237
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 2: I needed to do. I would say, give me the

1238
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 2: big bills first, give me the Andred's commit fifth. And

1239
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 2: it was they were like automatons at that point. Once

1240
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 2: I scared, and so it was, it became a thing

1241
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 2: that I could do right. And I was loose with it,

1242
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 2: you know, and it made it happen.

1243
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 4: What time of day is the best bank was morning? Morning.

1244
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 2: I went the morning always. I tried to be the

1245
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 2: first guy. In several times. I was there when with

1246
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 2: a couple other people when they were unlocking the bank.

1247
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 2: I was one of the guys there. I think he

1248
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 2: let everyone in. I said, oh, can I see you

1249
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 2: when you close it? He closed the door and I

1250
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 2: robbed him right there. I take me to the vault.

1251
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: So like it when in the morning, because what happens

1252
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 2: is I knew somebody in prison who went to go

1253
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 2: rob a bank in the afternoon. It had been robbed

1254
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 2: in morning. The FBI was already there. They arrest them

1255
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 2: on the spot. So I'm like, yeah, that's not gonna

1256
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 2: happen to me.

1257
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 3: Like it's a bad day for you. We got no money,

1258
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 3: but what we do have is a shitload of cops.

1259
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 3: You just put your hands in the air. That's so crazy.

1260
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 3: That's bad luck for him.

1261
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 2: I was eventually arrested and they got me for at

1262
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 2: that point, sixteen banks and they're counting, right. They arrest me.

1263
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 2: I go to court two days later for arraiment and

1264
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 2: they're like, we don't know who he is. He's the

1265
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 2: Bay Root bandit, and here's sixteen pictures of him, and

1266
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: these are sixteen for us, and we're still counting your honor.

1267
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 2: I was a bay Root bandit because get this, When

1268
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 2: I would go into these banks to rob him, the

1269
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 2: police would come and say, you know, what do he

1270
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: look like? Oh he looked Indian. He looked Pakistani. Oh

1271
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 2: he's Pakistani. Oh he might be Indian. And the reason

1272
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 2: the very few of them said Mexican is because they said, oh, no,

1273
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 2: he wasn't Mexican. He didn't have an accent. Oh. They

1274
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: would say he didn't have tattoos on his hands or

1275
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: his neck.

1276
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:47,720
Speaker 4: Oh Jesus.

1277
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 2: They were so used to being robbed by gang banging

1278
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 2: drug addicts that I did not fit that profile at all.

1279
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 2: So when I walk in with my glasses and my

1280
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: dark hair. It was black hair at the time, really

1281
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: thick black hair, really dark skinned. Like right now you

1282
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 2: can't tell, but I'm a Mexican for northern Mexico, and

1283
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 2: when we get the sun on us, I get almost black,

1284
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: like I get dark brown.

1285
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 4: Right.

1286
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 2: So they could be confused for calling me a Pakistani

1287
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 2: or Indian, sure, But what I should not be excused

1288
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 2: for is saying, oh, did you say Pakistani and Indian? Okay,

1289
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 2: Well we're gonna go to Lebanon.

1290
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 4: Right Like.

1291
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 3: That's I'm still like connected to baby Root. I'm still waiting.

1292
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, now, just eighties iggorant shit right there.

1293
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 2: That's why I become the bay Root.

1294
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 3: Band bay Root Pakistan, Hey Root by way of Pakistan,

1295
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 3: that's right.

1296
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's how I get it. But one the

1297
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 2: story I wanted to tell you is that I get arrested,

1298
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: and when I get arrested, I finally I get bail.

1299
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: My aunt Gloria, puts up her home and I go

1300
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 2: rob five more banks, five more banks I rob on bail. Now,

1301
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: when I go rob this one bank the day before

1302
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 2: I get arrested, it's the last one. When I'm walking

1303
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 2: out of the bank. Who's coming to the bank. Walking

1304
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 2: up with the bank, I see a big brink truck

1305
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 2: and the Brink's guard is coming in with the money.

1306
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 2: It's even to see who's gonna get to the door first.

1307
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 2: And I have money in my blue bag. I got money.

1308
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 2: He's got a bag of money much bigger than mine.

1309
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 2: And part of me wants to rob him, but a

1310
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 2: part of me is like, I just got to get

1311
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 2: the hell out of Dodgs. There's two of them.

1312
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 3: But aren't you worried about your aunt losing her home

1313
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 3: she put it up for on bail as collateral.

1314
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: Nope, I wasn't. Not That's how bad I was. Oh,

1315
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,240
Speaker 2: you know, because a lot of people hearing the story,

1316
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 2: Oh he's a sexy bag. No. No, I was a real

1317
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 2: terrible person. Yeah. And not only was that a terrible person,

1318
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 2: maybe a lot of people, well, you were robbing banks.

1319
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 2: I wasn't just robbing banks. I was a real terrible

1320
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 2: human being, especially in this regards perfect example. I was

1321
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 2: willing to put my aunts in place. I didn't care.

1322
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 2: This is the grandiosity, narcissist, all that nonsense that was

1323
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 2: going on inside of me. Right, So yeah, it was fun,

1324
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 2: and I spent a lot of money throwing around, and yeah,

1325
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 2: I was poking the banks in the rise. But that's

1326
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 2: not happening in a vacuum. It's happening because I don't

1327
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: care about anything except myself and my pleasure.

1328
00:55:59,680 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 4: That's it.

1329
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 2: And that's all cheating on my girlfriend all day long,

1330
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: emotionally brutalizing her. I would never physically violent with any

1331
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 2: women there with, but I was emotionally abusive. So I

1332
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 2: was a terrible person. And some people would like to

1333
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: give me a pass, and well, you know, he didn't

1334
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 2: hit them. My dad beat the shit out of us.

1335
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 2: And the worst thing that ever happened to me a

1336
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: child is when he said something to my brother. He

1337
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 2: didn't have to hit me. Emotional abuse is sometimes worse

1338
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 2: than actually the physical thing. The bones hill, the bruises

1339
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 2: go away, But the emotional stuff, when you say something

1340
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 2: to people, that's terrible. So I don't give myself a

1341
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 2: pass on that, but I do want to say that

1342
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 2: I was that guy. I was a terrible guy there,

1343
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 2: and all the way around. I could be generous, you know,

1344
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 2: like when I steal money, sometimes I would give it

1345
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 2: to poor mothers who were single mothers at Christmas time

1346
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 2: who had a bunch of kids. I could do that,

1347
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: but that doesn't cover the fact that I was a

1348
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 2: bad person and was willing in this case. I'm like,

1349
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 2: my aunt lose her home. So yes, that happened, and

1350
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 2: terrorized the hell had a very teller I got a

1351
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 2: hold of. I just terrorize them, right, So that's a

1352
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 2: terrible thing.

1353
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 3: Whenever I interview people who rob jewelry stores, banks, anything

1354
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,439
Speaker 3: like that, I get from show fans that say, hey,

1355
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 3: you did a good job on this, but be careful

1356
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 3: glorifying this kind of thing, because we live in fear

1357
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 3: of people like this. People who have been through robberies,

1358
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 3: they have nightmares for weeks, they have nightmares for months afterwards.

1359
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 4: It changes their lives.

1360
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 3: They don't want to go out at night anymore, or

1361
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 3: they don't want to work anymore. Now that you're out

1362
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 3: of the whole mess, what do you think about all that?

1363
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 3: I mean, do you think about the women who are

1364
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 3: or men for that matter, who are just scared to

1365
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 3: death that didn't want to go back to work, that

1366
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 3: retired early, or you know, had nightmares for six months

1367
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 3: after this. You know, it's especially scary for women.

1368
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 2: I think absolutely. I mean, okay, sure, A couple of

1369
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: things I need to say about that. One. It's true

1370
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 2: that I robbed the banks, and banks are terrible places.

1371
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 2: I have no respect for banks. They do really terrible

1372
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 2: things and always have. There is a reason why in

1373
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 2: this country, the original bank robbers from the depression, those

1374
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 2: guys are heroes. They're folk heroes. Why because they knew

1375
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 2: that the banks have ripped off so many people that

1376
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 2: when they were going to those banks, Like pretty boy Floyd,

1377
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 2: he would go there and because they didn't have computers

1378
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 2: at that time, he would set fire to the mortgages

1379
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: that the banks held on those farmers. So they became

1380
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: folk heroes because they were like banks had brought on

1381
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 2: the depression for everyone. So when I rolled those banks,

1382
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 2: I don't feel guilty about it. I did the time

1383
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 2: for those banks. I served my time. That's equal. Now,

1384
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 2: like I did something bad, I served time for it.

1385
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 2: But I never could serve time for the pain that

1386
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 2: I that I inflicted on these women and a few men,

1387
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 2: And so I don't give myself a pass for that.

1388
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 2: I feel terrible about, in fact, the worst thing that

1389
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: I had, worst regrets and shame what I carried on

1390
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 2: for a long time. Was for that. That's the terrible

1391
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 2: part of the crime that I couldn't deal with. And

1392
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: also what's interesting is they for a podcast once about

1393
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 2: me called the Bank Robbert Divers. They interviewed the women

1394
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: who a woman who was one of the twers, right,

1395
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 2: but the interview and played it for me, and when

1396
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 2: I heard it, I fell apart. I broke down because

1397
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 2: she said everything you just said, she scared her, she

1398
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: had to drop out of night school. She said all

1399
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 2: the things that happened to her, which you're terrible. And

1400
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 2: now that I'm on this side, now that I have

1401
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 2: a conscience, now that I'm raising a young daughter, you know, whatever,

1402
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 2: I've been out here twenty nine years. Now, I'm a

1403
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 2: new man. I'm different. I have a different relationship to people,

1404
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 2: you know, inflicting trauma on people since I've been inflicted

1405
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: on me. That broke me down, man, broke me down,

1406
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 2: especially what she got to the part where she said,

1407
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 2: but I forgive him, oh man. And here's the other

1408
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 2: thing too, Right, people will say stuff like, hey, so

1409
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 2: have you tried to reach out to these women who

1410
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 2: you robbed us? And I'm like, what are you talking?

1411
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 2: About that sounds like the most aconite thing plan idea.

1412
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 4: I don't think they want to hear from you.

1413
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, I

1414
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 3: don't want to hear from you.

1415
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know.

1416
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 2: More importantly this way I look at it. Once upon

1417
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 2: a time, Joe Loyer couldn't handle his emotional shit, and

1418
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 2: so he ambushed them with it and said, you know,

1419
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you all my emotional shit. How

1420
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 2: do you like it?

1421
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:49,439
Speaker 4: Right?

1422
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 2: And now? To me? If I was to contact them,

1423
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: I'd be like, I can't handle my regret and my grief.

1424
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 2: I need to contact your like, look, give it all

1425
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: to you. Can you forgive me? Like it's the same

1426
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 2: thing exactly. It's the same thing to me, right, And

1427
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 2: I don't care how good my spirit is. It's ridiculous

1428
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 2: to think that, oh, I'm holding all this stuff now

1429
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 2: they got to hold it too. No, if a woman

1430
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 2: came up to me and says, by the way, you

1431
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 2: robbed me and I want to tell you some things,

1432
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 2: I would just say, first, I'm sorry, and now go on,

1433
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to say anything anymore. Just tell me what

1434
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 2: you need to tell me. And if they said they

1435
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 2: want to hear anything from me, that's fine, Like it's there.

1436
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 2: It has to be in their terms, and they have

1437
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 2: to be able to do whatever they want. Yeah, you know,

1438
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 2: short of kicking me on the balls, like you can

1439
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 2: lay into me. I got that coming and I'll take it.

1440
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 3: What if love isn't about fate or chemistry, but cold,

1441
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 3: hidden calculations we don't even realize we're making. Psychologist o

1442
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 3: Ryan Taraban exposes the uncomfortable truth about what men and

1443
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 3: women really want versus what they say they want.

1444
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 5: It's not socially acceptable to come right out and say

1445
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 5: what it is that you want. One of my most

1446
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 5: popular YouTube episodes is called the Part that Women Always

1447
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 5: Leave Out. And I was approaching the women in my life,

1448
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 5: friends and older mentors with.

1449
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 4: This good faith question.

1450
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 5: It's like, what do you can want? Because I want

1451
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 5: to give it to you or someone like you so

1452
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 5: that I can have a successful relationship with a woman.

1453
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 4: And I heard all kinds of things.

1454
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 5: That were like I want somebody who's kind, and I

1455
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 5: want somebody who makes me feel safe, and I want

1456
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 5: somebody who buys me flowers and makes me feel like

1457
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 5: a little girl.

1458
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 4: And I'm thinking, what the.

1459
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 5: Fuck man, I'm all of those things. I don't understand

1460
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 5: what the problem here is. And so the part that

1461
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 5: women always leave out is that they do want those things,

1462
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 5: but they want those things from the men they're already

1463
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 5: attracted to. If she's not attracted to you, buying her

1464
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 5: flowers is not going to make her attracted to you.

1465
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 5: So the determination of attractiveness is based on other variables,

1466
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 5: and as a guy, you have to attend to those

1467
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 5: because if you don't, it won't matter if you're the kindest, gentlest,

1468
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 5: sweetest man on the planet. Sometimes people know what they want,

1469
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 5: but they're not allowed to say it out loud because

1470
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 5: they will be judged for being superficial. If you want

1471
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 5: to observe or understand what people actually want, you have

1472
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 5: to notice who they hook up with, who they actually

1473
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 5: enter into relationships with. That's what they want, regardless of

1474
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 5: what they say with their mouths.

1475
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 3: Tahiro Ryan Taraban break down the hidden rules of attraction.

1476
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 3: Check out episode twelve twelve of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

1477
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 3: That's it for Part one. Part two out in a

1478
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 3: few days if it's not already. Advertisers, deals, discount codes,

1479
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 3: ways to support the show. All on the website at

1480
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 3: Jordanharbinger dot com slash Deals. Please consider supporting those who

1481
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Speaker 3: support this show. Also, our newsletter Weebitweiser is really a

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Speaker 3: lot of fun. I love writing it, you love reading it.

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Speaker 3: The idea is to give you something specific and practical

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Speaker 3: that'll have an immediate impact on your decisions psychology relationships

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Speaker 3: in under two minutes every Wednesday or just about And

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Speaker 3: if you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to

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Speaker 3: come check it out. It's a great companion to this show.

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Speaker 3: Jordanharbinger dot com slash news is where you can find it.

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Speaker 3: Don't forget about six Minute Networking as well, over at

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Speaker 3: minute Networking dot com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter

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Speaker 3: and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn

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Speaker 3: and this show is created in association with podcast one.

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Speaker 3: My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, tatasilowskis

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Speaker 3: Ian Baird, and Gabriel Msrahi. Remember we rise by lifting

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Speaker 3: others the fee for the show as you share it

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Speaker 3: with friends when you find something useful or interesting. In fact,

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Speaker 3: the greatest compliment you can give us is to share

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Speaker 3: the show with those who care about If you know

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Speaker 3: somebody who loves a good crime tale, definitely share this

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Speaker 3: episode with him a redemption story if you will. In

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Speaker 3: the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on

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Speaker 3: the show so you can live what you'll learn. And

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Speaker 3: we'll see you next time.

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Speaker 1: To hear the second part of the Joe Loyer interview.

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Speaker 1: Search for The Jordan Harbinger Show and episode two hundred

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Speaker 1: sixty five