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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to Work in Progress,

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Speaker 1: where I talk to people who inspire me about how

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Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

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Speaker 1: they're still going. Wajahat Ali is a New York Times

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Speaker 1: contributing op ed writer, a public speaker, and a self

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Speaker 1: described recovering attorney entired dat. He also happens to be

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite brains to pick on ongoing social

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Speaker 1: issues and one of the more inspiring people in my

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Speaker 1: phone book. He joined me on the pod for a

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Speaker 1: long but incredibly interesting discussion about everything from his childhood

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Speaker 1: and growing up in a Pakistani Muslim family, the importance

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Speaker 1: of addressing or history and confronting its ugly parts in

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Speaker 1: order to move forward, racism, discrimination, parenting, how he made

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Speaker 1: it through his daughter's cancer diagnosis, and what it was

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Speaker 1: like to give a ted talk right after he found

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Speaker 1: out she was sick. We got started right off the

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Speaker 1: bat talking about the state of journalism today and how

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Speaker 1: we've all gotten to this point. I really hope you

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Speaker 1: enjoyed this conversation, because I absolutely loved having it. Has

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Speaker 1: evidenced by how long I kept him on the phone.

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Speaker 1: I need. I never knew i'd do this right for

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Speaker 1: a living. They asked me to America. I had never

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Speaker 1: done any like television hosting. They're like, we think you'd

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Speaker 1: be good. You want to try it out, And I

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Speaker 1: was like building, I kea furniture for my wife. Uh,

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Speaker 1: totally broke. I just moved to like d C for

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Speaker 1: like my wife. I'm like, all right, but I remember

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Speaker 1: this a couple of years ago, and it's like the

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Speaker 1: old school versus new school. The old school is like

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Speaker 1: you have to wear a jacket, and they always told

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Speaker 1: me had to like sit up square with the square

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Speaker 1: shoulders and only then will lameary go look at you

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Speaker 1: and respect you. I'm like, yo, I don't think people care.

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Speaker 1: I think people want honestly. They want authenticity, they want intimacy.

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Speaker 1: I remember I was like hosting. One time I was

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Speaker 1: guest hosting and there was a guest and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I remember I just said, hey man, thanks for coming on.

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Speaker 1: I said, hey man, and they're like that was too casual.

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Speaker 1: And meanwhile, like the people were like that's great. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like that's why like Stewart

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Speaker 1: and like Trevor Noah and like there's a reason why

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Speaker 1: people gravitate towards them, like the entertainment side, because they

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Speaker 1: just don't trust the institutions anymore. And so someone, if

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Speaker 1: someone can take the piss out of it, and I

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Speaker 1: think kind of pierce through and like kind of admit

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Speaker 1: like the superficiality. They're in a strange way, they're the

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Speaker 1: ones who are seen as authentic. So now people are

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Speaker 1: like Sophia's blunt. She doesn't have to do this for

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Speaker 1: a living. She keeps it real. I'll go to Sophia

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Speaker 1: instead of the great Saint Tucker Carlson. Well, I'm glad

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Speaker 1: you're doing it. Well. Thanks, It's it's actually really interesting observation.

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Speaker 1: I I'm a little crushed by it, and I guess

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Speaker 1: I get it. I just to me Dan rather as

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Speaker 1: a superhero. You know, he's such a classy, informed, principled man.

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Speaker 1: And I think about Dan rather journalism, and I I think, look,

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Speaker 1: I think two things have happened in my sort of

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Speaker 1: estimation or observation from the outside of it is that

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Speaker 1: journalists have been able to throughout history exposed such honest

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Speaker 1: truth that it changes culture. And by the people who

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Speaker 1: don't want to give up power, they're regarded as very dangerous.

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Speaker 1: So they've worked very hard to campaign against journalism on

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Speaker 1: the one hand, and then on the other hand, we've

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Speaker 1: taken away the the requirement of meeting a standard of decency,

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Speaker 1: which used to quite literally be the law, and we've

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Speaker 1: paved the way for people like Tucker Carlson to get

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Speaker 1: on TV and say the most hateful things imaginable and

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Speaker 1: and lie about people and and really denigrate any sort

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Speaker 1: of ethics. Um be overtly racist and misogynistic and and antagonistic.

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Speaker 1: And you know, employ a head writer who is a violent,

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Speaker 1: misogynistic in cell And it's crazy to me that it's allowed.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think for any of us who

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Speaker 1: who has had the I think about it as a

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Speaker 1: privilege of exposure. You know, I had the privilege to

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Speaker 1: go to journalism school. I've had the privilege to work

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Speaker 1: as a storyteller and to work amidst a bunch of

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Speaker 1: incredible unions for my entire career. You Know, when I

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Speaker 1: talk about healthcare and unions and wage increases, people are like,

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Speaker 1: what the fund do you know? You're us all a party,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, uh, y'all think we just hang out

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Speaker 1: at the Golden globes. But really we hang out on

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Speaker 1: sets with like transpo drivers and construction dudes, like that's

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Speaker 1: our life. I only have health care, that's my crew.

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Speaker 1: Like I only have health care because I'm in a union,

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Speaker 1: you guys, um, And so I always I always think

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Speaker 1: of that as as super interesting. And those are the

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Speaker 1: perspectives that that I realized. I'm so lucky to have that.

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Speaker 1: I know, the experiences of all these different, diverse kinds

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Speaker 1: of people that I've been lucky enough to, you know,

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Speaker 1: to be on presidential campaigns and and work on initiatives

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Speaker 1: with the White House. Obviously not this one, um, but

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Speaker 1: you know, it's about interesting. Tell me that definite. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I haven't. I haven't been to the White House since

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Speaker 1: en I was, like, it's been really all in four years.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed. We'll have to wait.

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Speaker 1: We'll have to wait till January. Everyone talks about in November,

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Speaker 1: and I always keep telling people January one, and everyone

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Speaker 1: thought it was crazy. That's a really interesting thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're mentioning this. A lot of a lot of journalists

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Speaker 1: of color, we called all this that happened, right. I

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Speaker 1: was covering the campaign for Huffing and Posts at that time,

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Speaker 1: and I remember I went to the d n C

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Speaker 1: and I just did this tongue in cheek kind of

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Speaker 1: a segment for the Huffing in Post where I just

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Speaker 1: went around and talk to people and said, will you

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Speaker 1: visit me in the Muslim camps um? And people are like, go, what,

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Speaker 1: this is never gonna happen. And I'm like, can you

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Speaker 1: bring me halal meat? And they're like, fine, I'll bring

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Speaker 1: you halal meat. And I remember I talked to both

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Speaker 1: Republican voters and Democratic voters, and people said to me,

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Speaker 1: that will never happen. He's just saying it to get elected.

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Speaker 1: He's just being racist to get elected. And then we

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Speaker 1: kept saying, yo, we have followed the careers of Stephen Miller,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Sessions, Steve Bannon. The one compliment I always give

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Speaker 1: this administration is that they're not subtle. They'll tell you

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Speaker 1: exactly what they're gonna do. But the rest of us

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Speaker 1: who have, as you said, like kind of some sort

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Speaker 1: of like decorum or some some months of flexivility and

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Speaker 1: decency were like core, Yeah, some ethics just like a

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Speaker 1: smidgen of it, Uh, We're like, that will never happen.

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Speaker 1: And you also see one of the other things I

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Speaker 1: would say is that talking about the distrust, right, and

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Speaker 1: I've lived through it. I'm in I'm in DC, Virginia.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've been in this game for a while.

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Speaker 1: The kind of incestuous ecosystem between like big money media

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Speaker 1: and politics. How it's just like a revolving door where

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Speaker 1: people want business to go on as usual. So it's

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Speaker 1: like it's in their interest to kind of go along

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Speaker 1: with this. So I remember, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: remember this, but Les Moonvez, the who's the CEO of

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Speaker 1: CBS before we had to resign for yet another sexual

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Speaker 1: harassment scandal, openly said we might not look Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: but he is good for business. Like he openly said that.

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Speaker 1: That's a quote. And I remember the White House correspondenentor

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Speaker 1: last year. The day before the dinner, our agency held

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Speaker 1: a big party in d C. Right, So you had

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Speaker 1: all these hosts and reporters and journalists, and I went there.

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Speaker 1: I hate these parties. That went for ten minutes. My

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Speaker 1: agent said, just show your face. I'm like whatever, So

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Speaker 1: I go in my jeans. Guess who's having the greatest

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Speaker 1: time at that party, the greatest time Sean Spicer ouch. So,

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Speaker 1: Sean Spicer, the first White House Press secretary whose job

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Speaker 1: was to lie to the public, is invited to a

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Speaker 1: party for reporters and journalists, and he is having the

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Speaker 1: greatest time. He's drinking, he's given people bear hugs, and

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Speaker 1: right then I'm like something. I mean, I know I

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Speaker 1: knew this, but you know, I need like a visual

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Speaker 1: reminder that things are broken and this is not right.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, why is this man having the greatest time

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Speaker 1: of his life covorting with people that he called the

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Speaker 1: enemy of the people, and no one cared. And the

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Speaker 1: weird thing to me is they always say, well, they

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Speaker 1: don't really believe it. I'm friends with a guy, he's

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Speaker 1: a comedian who I respect, who two years ago we

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Speaker 1: were working on a on a big voting thing together

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Speaker 1: and and he says to me, you know, I did

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Speaker 1: this thing with Tommy Laren. And she's not evil like

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Speaker 1: she is on TV. She knows she's playing a character.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't believe half the ship. She says, she's much nicer,

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Speaker 1: but you know, she's got to do the job she's

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Speaker 1: got to do because she works on Fox and I

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Speaker 1: just thought, what are you talking about? How how is

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Speaker 1: that your defense of someone that they're more racist and

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Speaker 1: cruel on TV because it sells than than what they

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Speaker 1: actually believe in their real life. That someone willing to

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Speaker 1: do that, Isn't that worse That you're willing to incite hatred,

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Speaker 1: that you're that you're willing to just be so brazenly

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Speaker 1: mean to people and lie about people. I couldn't fathom it.

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Speaker 1: And and I had that moment when I when I

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Speaker 1: think of the sort of pictures of oh, things are

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Speaker 1: really wrong here. I remember when Sean Spicer walked out

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Speaker 1: on that whatever the dance show, one of the dance shows.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. And I'm like, look at this

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Speaker 1: guy in this like lime green popsicle shirt. What is happening?

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Speaker 1: How is this allowed? How are we rewarding folks who

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Speaker 1: do this? You know? I think about that that woman

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Speaker 1: whatever her name is, Kaylee, what is it McKenney, Kaylee McKinney,

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Speaker 1: who I love that, you know the fact that she

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Speaker 1: got up and said the science should not stand in

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Speaker 1: the way of kids going back to school. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about? That's exactly what science is

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Speaker 1: for to keep you alive. Do you know many people

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Speaker 1: with polio? No, because of science, but you know everyone,

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Speaker 1: everyone says. The Kylie example is a good one because

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Speaker 1: I was on I wish you guys, let's we'll make

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Speaker 1: this podcast juicy. Let's let's spill some tea and coffee. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was on forwards before we go back

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Speaker 1: like we usually do. We just got in it and

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Speaker 1: I like it. It'll be fun. So I was on

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Speaker 1: scene and with her once and before we started, you know,

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Speaker 1: we just do the gap like this was um and

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Speaker 1: she was very pleasant, very nice, and I knew. I said, hey,

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Speaker 1: a friend of yours who grew up with you from Florida.

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Speaker 1: Rahanna says hi, And Rahanna says, oh yeah, I grew

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Speaker 1: with them. She's Muslim and Kylie is not Muslim. And

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Speaker 1: she said, yeah, I remember we live close by and her, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, her family was really nice and so she

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Speaker 1: was very civil and she goes I remember her, oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah. As soon as the camera turns on, boom,

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Speaker 1: she goes in attack mode. And well, I mean just

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Speaker 1: she does her role. She does her role right, Trump supporter.

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Speaker 1: And I could tell you now because I wasn't scene

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Speaker 1: him for a year officially. And you know, I've been

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Speaker 1: on cable news in the green room. I've only met

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Speaker 1: two people who come on TV to support Trump who

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Speaker 1: are actually true believers. One of them was Paris Dinard, who, again,

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Speaker 1: if you see a recurring theme, was fired because of

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Speaker 1: sexual harassment allegations. And there was one more if you

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Speaker 1: remember that guy, Jeffrey Lord in the initial yeah, so

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Speaker 1: go back for those you guys remember Jeffrey Lord. He

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Speaker 1: was a guy really elderly. The guy always smiled and

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Speaker 1: like was the first Trump supporter. He was unseen and

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Speaker 1: all the time, and his mom lived like like in

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Speaker 1: the basement. And uh, he finally got fired, right, everyone,

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Speaker 1: nearly everyone else says to me, I hate this guy.

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Speaker 1: I can't stand him. It's disgust me that I have

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Speaker 1: to go and support him. And I'm like, well, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to. And then I've seen some of them

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Speaker 1: who were, you know, like they're conservative there in the ecosystem,

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Speaker 1: and they weren't vociferous in their praise if Trump, you

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Speaker 1: could see there was disgusted. Over the past four years,

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Speaker 1: they've gone they've gone all in because Trump is the future.

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Speaker 1: Trump is um is the future. And so you sit

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Speaker 1: there and I go. I would never get on TV

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Speaker 1: or on a podcast or in the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: wherever I write and commit myself towards, if I did

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Speaker 1: not believe in them, It's not worth it. I'd make

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Speaker 1: my money somewhere else. But see, that's what's interesting to

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Speaker 1: me in a conversation with you, because see to you

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Speaker 1: and I became friends, which happened in the You know,

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Speaker 1: the cool thing about being millennials is you can become

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Speaker 1: friends with people in a digital space. We we got.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how it happened. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: been so many years now that we chat about politics

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Speaker 1: and life and and you send me great articles and

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Speaker 1: I send you obviously great playlists and other things happening,

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Speaker 1: and thank you and and and you know, we we

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Speaker 1: are pursuing the right side of history. And I forget

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Speaker 1: that there are people who are willing to lie to

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Speaker 1: the to the true detriment of other people, for access

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Speaker 1: to power. I could not do that. I you know,

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Speaker 1: I've done the thing. Where as an actor, I I

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Speaker 1: know what's coming on a show and I have to

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Speaker 1: go do press about it. And it's like it's a

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Speaker 1: big twist at the end of the episode. So obviously

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Speaker 1: I have to lie and be like, yeah, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I can't give it away. It's like, then I ruin

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Speaker 1: it for the viewer. I feel guilty about that, and

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Speaker 1: that's like, actually, my job is to protect the surprise

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Speaker 1: at the end of the TV episode or the movie.

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Speaker 1: I can't fathom getting up and and just lying to people.

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Speaker 1: I can't fathom saying in a green room, this guy

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Speaker 1: is going to destroy America, this guy is a fascist,

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Speaker 1: and then going on TV and saying there's been never

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Speaker 1: been a president who loves America more. I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand it what it's because it's the It

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Speaker 1: is what I call the right wing ecosystem, right, and

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Speaker 1: so a lot of people just say, oh, it's the media,

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Speaker 1: and I think they have to just step back because

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Speaker 1: I studied this. It's you know, you have to step

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Speaker 1: back and uh, just examine what's happening. Right, It's not

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Speaker 1: just Fox News. So it's Fox News, it's it's radio personalities,

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Speaker 1: it's the Internet, it's think tanks, it's funders like the

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Speaker 1: Koch Brothers among others, it's politicians. You can literally trace

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Speaker 1: talking points from think tank reports that come from DC

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Speaker 1: that then become mainstream talking points, right, And so this

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Speaker 1: is what we're up against. And whenever people like us

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Speaker 1: are trying to warrant, they say, oh, you're either being

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Speaker 1: too hysterical or being too partisan. I want to be fair. Look,

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Speaker 1: I went to an all boys, Jesuit Catholic high school

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Speaker 1: right where I was a token Muslim, token brown guy.

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Speaker 1: My friends, I've had friends of all different religious and ethnicities.

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Speaker 1: And when I say we have to be aware of

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Speaker 1: what we're up against, it's not all Republicans, not all conservatives,

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Speaker 1: but there is an ecosystem right in front of us

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Speaker 1: right now, and we've just teased it out right, Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: people who know better, who get up and are now

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Speaker 1: normalizing locking up kids in cages, normalizing the fact that

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. I don't know if you guys remember this,

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Speaker 1: but apparently Putin is putting bounties on the heads of

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Speaker 1: you as soldiers. No one talks about it. Uh this dude,

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Speaker 1: this dude was impeached for trying to uh it strong

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Speaker 1: arm and ally Ukraine into interfering in the US elections.

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Speaker 1: People have died to protect our elections the bedrock over democracy.

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Speaker 1: And so when people say, and I'm just going off

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Speaker 1: your thread here, oh they're not really like that. Oh

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Speaker 1: they're nice to their kids. Oh they held the door

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Speaker 1: open for that old lady. Oh they don't really believe it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not God. I don't know what's in people's hearts.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's your intentions. But I can judge

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Speaker 1: you by your actions and your behavior. And if you

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Speaker 1: are voluntarily acting and behaving in a way which normalizes

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Speaker 1: such chaos and cruelty, then are you not complicit? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I believe you are. I do two. I do two.

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Speaker 1: And also this refusal, and it goes back to the

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Speaker 1: earlier point. And I think the racial divice here is important.

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Speaker 1: Why so many of people of color in particular, not exclusively,

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Speaker 1: saw this coming is because we have experienced America, uh

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Speaker 1: in a different way from so many of our you know,

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Speaker 1: white citizens. We have experienced the breath of America, and

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Speaker 1: America atas has never been sometimes that welcoming, you know,

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Speaker 1: merit was never enough. So we see the good, the bad,

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Speaker 1: and the ugly. So when we saw Trump and we

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Speaker 1: hurt Trump, We're like, yo, everybody, this is what's coming.

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Speaker 1: Down the pipeline. And I cannot tell you how many

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Speaker 1: times from funders, from men women who know better for

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Speaker 1: men and women are good people who care. Even in

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Speaker 1: the media, I could tell you going back six months

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Speaker 1: on set, a host during the break said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I really don't think Trump is racist. I think he's

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Speaker 1: just acting that way. The refusal to acknowledge or confront

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Speaker 1: the R word, which I think is like the Voldemort

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Speaker 1: in America because if you if you confront it and

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Speaker 1: you acknowledge it, then you have to tackle it. You

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Speaker 1: have to be like, how am I complicit in white supremacy?

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Speaker 1: How am I complicity in this system? How am I

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Speaker 1: enabling it? All of us myself included, like what what

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Speaker 1: have I Where have I failed in my responsibility? Like

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Speaker 1: you said, like if we're if we're Spider Man, to

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Speaker 1: quote Uncle Ben who quotes voltarian with great power comes

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Speaker 1: great responsibility, Right, Like where did I mess up? Like

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Speaker 1: as a as a as a man who has a

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Speaker 1: platform to write for the New York Times or was

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Speaker 1: on CNN or his friends with people like Sophia who

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Speaker 1: has been in like you know, who gets to interview politicians?

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Speaker 1: So I just feel like you and me, I feel

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Speaker 1: at least are aware of that burden of that weight

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Speaker 1: and are trying to wrestle with it. And then I

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Speaker 1: see people who just don't give an f as society

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Speaker 1: crumbles and they just normalize it. Well, what's interesting about

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. What strikes me as a sort of

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Speaker 1: aha moment, is we all love the ideals of America,

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Speaker 1: but we are afraid, it seems, as a society to

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Speaker 1: confront our own shortcomings that might stand in the way

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Speaker 1: of those ideals, because we take it as some intense

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Speaker 1: judgment or or personal failure. Whereas I think about medicine,

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Speaker 1: any tech, any innovation, any any world changing invention, people

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Speaker 1: have to go, Okay, well I'm gonna do this, and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this, and we'll ship that didn't work, Okay,

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Speaker 1: go back three steps. Let's figure out what we did

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Speaker 1: that was broken. Let's let's make it better. Okay, and

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Speaker 1: then we're gonna go forward from here. Oh my god, cool,

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Speaker 1: Look it worked. We we made the vaccine that saved

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Speaker 1: all the kids. We we we made an iPhone, Like wow,

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Speaker 1: we invented something that didn't exist before. But you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like like the polio vaccine changed the world.

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Speaker 1: The iPhone changed the world. We went from having flip

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Speaker 1: phones to having computers in our pockets. And and so

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Speaker 1: what's interesting to me about what you're saying about our

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Speaker 1: refusal to acknowledge racism, or let's talk about another our

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Speaker 1: word that men really don't like to talk about is

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Speaker 1: rape culture. If I if I have one more dude

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Speaker 1: up in my mentions or d m s being like, bit,

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Speaker 1: there's no such thing as rape culture. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: but really, you're gonna tell you're gonna tell me about it?

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Speaker 1: You should send him the latest breaking news about what

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Speaker 1: happened in Fox News. Hello. I started to see that

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Speaker 1: this morning. That is wild. And you know how I

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Speaker 1: saw it. I woke up when I finally determined that

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Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna have a normal sleep cycle today, I

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Speaker 1: got up to I got up to videos from my dad.

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Speaker 1: He was recording with his iPhone the TV screen at

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Speaker 1: my parents house, sending me videos going, I can't believe

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Speaker 1: these people, how are they allowed to have jobs? Criminals?

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Speaker 1: All of them. My dad sends me political memes all

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Speaker 1: the time. It's like he's so he's just so cute,

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Speaker 1: and you know, my dad's an immigrant. My dad loves

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Speaker 1: America and he's just like these Trump people are. They're

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Speaker 1: all traders from Canada. My dad grew up in Montreal,

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Speaker 1: um and spent every summer like in this really tiny

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Speaker 1: town up on the St. Lawrence River on a farm.

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Speaker 1: And dad came to the US in the seventies uh

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Speaker 1: to go to art Center, and then got a green card,

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Speaker 1: and then when I was twelve, finally became a citizen.

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Speaker 1: So I really love I love when people are like, well,

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Speaker 1: they have to come the right way. I'm like, you

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Speaker 1: know how many years that days and a lot of

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Speaker 1: these people are in process of doing the right thing.

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Speaker 1: It just it can take twenty to forty years. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's like Ted Cruz, people forget he was born in

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Speaker 1: Canada and then and then please tell me he did

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Speaker 1: chain migration like Milania Trump and brought his relatives from Canada.

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Speaker 1: Ted Cruz, No, my dad. My dad came here for

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Speaker 1: college because his older sister, Judy had had come for

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Speaker 1: college also, and my dad went to visit her on

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Speaker 1: her campus in Arizona and was like, this is cool.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting. My fault my father came as a

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Speaker 1: result of the immigration and Nationality Act of n which

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Speaker 1: which finally removed the restrictive quotas that were put in

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Speaker 1: place in this country in the nineteen twenties because in

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Speaker 1: the Ties, the original invaders were seen as wait for it,

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Speaker 1: Eastern European Jews and Italians and Irish Catholics. And this

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Speaker 1: was like a draconian measure. Uh. And just like we said,

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Speaker 1: it was like the right wing ecosystem of that time

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Speaker 1: that worked in tandem for decades to dehumanize and marginalize

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Speaker 1: the bad immigrants were at that time, were these Eastern

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Speaker 1: Europeans and they want to just shut everything down. It's

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Speaker 1: so my family on my mom's side were exactly those people.

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Speaker 1: My grandmother, my great grandmother, and my great grandfather came

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Speaker 1: to America. And by the way, we love the story now, right,

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Speaker 1: but at the time we forget that they were being

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Speaker 1: treated this way. We love to talk about the people

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Speaker 1: who came here through Ellis Island and made America, you know,

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Speaker 1: this incredible place for progress. That was my family coming

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Speaker 1: from Italy, uh. And the and that's so that's on

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Speaker 1: my mom's side. And wow, I mean the the oppression

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Speaker 1: and discrimination that they faced as Italian immigrants was was

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Speaker 1: not to be underestimated. It's interesting, I guess because for

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Speaker 1: me having a family who on both sides came here

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Speaker 1: for the ideals of America, and on my mother's side,

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Speaker 1: who was so heavily discriminated against, and seeing what that

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Speaker 1: experience was like for them, seeing that my grandmother, when

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Speaker 1: my mom was born, forbade her mother and father, so

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Speaker 1: my great grandparents from speaking Italian. To my mom, she'd

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Speaker 1: had it and she said, you know, when my mom

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Speaker 1: was five, she made a rule, she said, stop it.

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Speaker 1: We have to assimilate. They have I want them to

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Speaker 1: stop calling us names, and so for survival and so

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Speaker 1: for survival. In a moment, my mother lost her home

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Speaker 1: country's language. And I think about all of the people

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Speaker 1: who that's happened to. I think about these guys in

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Speaker 1: these maga hats, who are you know, yelling at folks

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Speaker 1: speaking Spanish in line to get a salad in New York.

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Speaker 1: We've all seen the videos. I think about um and

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Speaker 1: and obviously this this has a far deeper, uglier root

425
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 1: and ramification. But I think about the reality of when

426
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: we look at something like the sixteen nineteen project and

427
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: we understand the slave trade happening in its inception, how

428
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: Africans who were enslaved were brought here, separated from their language,

429
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: from their families, stripped of their names, and stripped of

430
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: their language, and and so they they there was a

431
00:24:52,480 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: very intentional and cruel, systemic choice two de culture people,

432
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: and and that from hundreds of years ago morphed into

433
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: a if you speak another language, if you look another way,

434
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: then you can't really be from here, will never really

435
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: let you in. And and what's what what bothers me

436
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: about parts of the way we see it now is

437
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: to your point, in just a hundred years now, some

438
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: of these people who scream at folks who are speaking

439
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: Spanish or Chinese or Arabic, I think it's chic when

440
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: they overhear people speaking French or Italian or Swedish. Whereas

441
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: those were people who we were discriminating against a hundred

442
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: years ago. And whenever I see race that's going after

443
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: people for their language on Twitter, I'm like, you know,

444
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: how jealous I am that I'm not bilingual, Like I

445
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: took French for six bacon years. I wish I could,

446
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: like what are we talking about? And and and I'm

447
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: just like, what's wrong. What is wrong with us? How

448
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: have we as a people not figured out that all

449
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: of the all of the quote unquote ammunition we used

450
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: to discriminate against each other is just an illusion. You know,

451
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: we you know it's it's it's based on what we

452
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: were saying. It's it's part of that American dream, that

453
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: American narrative, right, like the immigrant comes through Ellis Island

454
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: and they pulled themselves up from the bootstrap and there

455
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: were strangers and aliens, and they came to this country

456
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: and they were accepted and they built themselves up. And

457
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: now look they've created this beautiful mosaic that is America.

458
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: But you know that that metaphor that says the streets

459
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: are paved with gold in America usually glosses out or

460
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 1: whitewashes the blood. The seats are also paved with blood.

461
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: And the narrative that you said, the macro narrative America,

462
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 1: which is so important for us to believe in, is

463
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: that narrative the immigrant that we came here and we

464
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: built ourselves up. But what they forget is not all

465
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 1: the immigrants were assimilated. Not all people who came were

466
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: able to be integrated. Uh they were not absorbed into whiteness.

467
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: So yes, the Italians and the Irish and the Catholics

468
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: were able to be absorbed into the whiteness project. But

469
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: you mentioned sixteen nineteen, and it goes back to that

470
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: macro level of what we were talking about, where I

471
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: feel like, once America confronts the reality, the reality does

472
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: not sustain the illusion. Whereas I was taught and you've

473
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: heard some like right when people say that that's why

474
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: there's the attack on six nineteen, I think it's a

475
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: really good example of of this vociferous reactionary attack. How

476
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: can America be the land of the free democracy which

477
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: we which we have loved and projected to the world,

478
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: And then you're telling me that there was a sixteen

479
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: nineteen project and this country, you know, used and abused

480
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: black people, and we've built this country on the backs

481
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: of black slaves, and we have then totally do humanity

482
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: dehumanized them. And but look Lincoln came and freedom and

483
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: then now people are like, yeah, but there was also

484
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: a segregation and Jim Crow laws and Mississippi laws and

485
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: and and you know, lynching, and that's where we're talking

486
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: about reparations, Like, of course, not no merit. Merit ladies

487
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. Just like my Italian grandfather and my Jewish grandfather.

488
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: You need merit, and so you cannot divorce the American

489
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: narrative from white supremacy and racism. And I think on

490
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: a macro level, the sixty nineteen project, the attacks on

491
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: the sixty nineteen project, are this necessary. I think need

492
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: for some on I think the right to maintain this

493
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: fiction of America, to maintain the politics that they espouse.

494
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: And then the sorry, no I was The last thing

495
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: is the personal of it. The personal of it is

496
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: white fragility. Right like the attack on me, How dare

497
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: you say I'm a racist? It's okay to support racism

498
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: in this country, it's okay to support racist policies. But

499
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: God forbid, Sophia, if you call them out on their racism,

500
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: my god, they melt down. And I'm trying to can

501
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: the dots of what you were saying. I think that's

502
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: what we're witnessing in like this, we're confronted with our demons,

503
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: the words, the ugliness, the nuanced, messy realities of America.

504
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: Some people are within and saying, Okay, what's my responsibility?

505
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: What are the policies that broke down, breakdown? How can

506
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: I make it better? And other people are saying, you

507
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: are literally telling me that the fundamental American project is

508
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: a lie, and I refuse to believe it. I think

509
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: that that's so insane, because it's impossible not to acknowledge

510
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: human failing throughout history, which has been parallel path with

511
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: human progress. And to me, it feels like if we

512
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: deny where we have failed, we also, in a way

513
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: deny how far we've come. If we deny the six

514
00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: nineteen project, we we deny the steps we've aid to

515
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: write those horrific wrongs. We haven't gotten there, but we've

516
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: made steps. If we deny that once upon a time,

517
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: women couldn't get a freaking checking account or a credit

518
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: card unless their husband signed for it. If we deny

519
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: that when Gloria Steina moved to New York City, she

520
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: couldn't rent an apartment because she was a single woman,

521
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: and all the building managers thought, well, if you're a

522
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: single woman and you can afford an apartment in New

523
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: York City, you must be a hooker. And she was like,

524
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm a journalist, Like that was real. That's where we

525
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: come from. You know, even even when we think about

526
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: the things we love about, you know, the fantasy of

527
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: of you know, where we want to go in life.

528
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: You know, you talk about your family, like getting married,

529
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: finding your person, like your dad. You know, for women,

530
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: my dad's gonna walk me down the aisle. It's like yeah,

531
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: because that comes from an era where fathers literally gave

532
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: away their daughters in exchange for cattle. Hello. I don't

533
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: understand why it hurts us to acknowledge the truth of

534
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: where we've come from so that we might learn from

535
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: it and continue pressing forward. If we want America to

536
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: be the America of our ideals, to be the land

537
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: of the free, we better look long and hard at

538
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: who is not free and why so that we can

539
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: fix it. If we look around and we see that

540
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: when the Declaration of Independence, you know, was signed, and

541
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: we look at those renderings, it was all a bunch

542
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: of dudes around the table, and they were all white.

543
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: But we better build a bigger fucking table fast. I

544
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: don't understand why it's a bad thing to want to

545
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: have a larger proverbial feast with all, with all people,

546
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: with all of our neighbors. It's such a strange thing

547
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: and I and I realized that the the scarcity mentality

548
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: that has always been a weapon of control has permeated

549
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: into so many arenas of our lives that so many

550
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: people don't realize they have. Be it a conscious or

551
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: unconscious fear that if, oh, if my neighbor gets more,

552
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: am I going to have less? And that's not how

553
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: it has to be. In the richest country in the world,

554
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, it would actually cost us less to to

555
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: have more ethical policies that protected more people. You know,

556
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: in the long run, the country would just get richer.

557
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: This is basic math, and it's it's a really interesting

558
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: thing that that people don't want to confront failure, because

559
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: it's only when you confront failure that you can better

560
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: innovate for the future. And I, I don't know. I

561
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: don't see when I've traveled to Germany. I don't see

562
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: German people who are like, you know what, I wish

563
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: we had less of I wish we had less memorials

564
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: to the Holocaust. I just wish I didn't have to

565
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: think about this. It's so ingrained in culture of something

566
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: happened here and we weren't a live when it happened,

567
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: but it was so awful. We can never let people

568
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: forget it because we don't want it to happen again.

569
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: What is wrong with that? Well, no, you see, I

570
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: wish more people were like and I think, slowly but surely,

571
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: hopefully this generation will get there. But you know the

572
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: problem is by airing this, by confronting the wards, the

573
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: ugliness of the sins, the desire predominantly of people of

574
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: color is not to shame. It's not to get special status,

575
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: is to get equal status. It's not to have special standards,

576
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: is to have equal standards. But to others, it is

577
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: a fundamental attack on them, their values, their identity, their history.

578
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: So for you, it's like using your science analogy. We

579
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: messed up. We try it. We're trying trying a path

580
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: towards progress. If you look at all the data and

581
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: studies that have come out in the past four years

582
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: revealing the primary, not exclusive, but the primary motivator of

583
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: Trump voters, it's not economic anxiety like we said, it

584
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: is racial anxiety. When they when they really drilled down

585
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: on that, what does that mean? We can't recognize this

586
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: country anymore. We feel we are being wait for it, replaced.

587
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: We want things to go back to where it was normal,

588
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: the status quo. And when you ask him when we

589
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: when were things normal? Nine fifties? If you ever watch

590
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: TV in the black and white, leave it to Beaver,

591
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: no one like me even existed, right, And so to

592
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: them and use let's use the dinner table analogy because

593
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: I always use that for people of color, for those

594
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: who are listening, right, I just want to the way

595
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: we feel it. Right. Suppose there's a table of wizards.

596
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: You peel back the curtain and you finally see the

597
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: wizards who operate everything. It's ten white dudes. Let's say

598
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: eight white dudes, two white women. You go, okay, I'm

599
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: the darkest thing in the room. You fast forward five years,

600
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: you peel back the curtain. It's ten people. Now it's

601
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: eight white people and two people of color. For the

602
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: two people of color, this is what we're thinking, Oh

603
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: my god, we finally made it to the table. This

604
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: is great. And look we brought some enchiladas and Brianni.

605
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: We brought that to the buffet table. Now, thinking about

606
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: the mindset of racial anxiety for the other eight, some

607
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: of them said, oh my god, those two brown people

608
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: or those two black people. They took away my friends seats.

609
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: They took away my people's seats. I am being replaced.

610
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: And the reason why I'm spending time on this and

611
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: making it into a simplistic analogy is because that is

612
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: the core of the racial anxiety that is motivating much

613
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: of the friction that we're witnessing America. The attacks on immigrants,

614
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: the attacks on Muslims, the attacks on the Project, the

615
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: attacks on Black Lives Matter, the attacks on me too.

616
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: Let's keep everything status quo, where we were in power

617
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: and everything was okay. What we have to treat women

618
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: with respect now, what we have to challenge rape culture,

619
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: what we can't harass people anymore? What people are just

620
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: being to wait for it politically correct. You're canceling me,

621
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: and the rest of us are saying, we're not trying

622
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: to cancel anyone. We're trying to cancel toxic behavior, ing

623
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: ue in inequality. So if you really are committed to

624
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: progress and these American values, let us challenge you to

625
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: live up to those ideals. And this, my friends, is

626
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,959
Speaker 1: going to be the major tension moving forward, even after

627
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: Trump loses. And this is my prediction. And I get

628
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: in trouble for this, and I hope I'm wrong. Is

629
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: that What people don't realize is they go, oh, Trump

630
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: will lose and everything will go back to normal. I'm like, no,

631
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 1: these demons have been unleashed. They will get further radical,

632
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: some will get armed. You're not paying attention the number

633
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: one domestic thread in America's white supremacist terrorists. The stuff

634
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: that was fringed four years ago is now mainstream. You're

635
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: seeing people who are running for office are gonna get elected,

636
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: people who believe in the q conspiracy. You see this

637
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: toxic anti Semitic conspiracy theory which now a mate, which

638
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: is now a mainstream talking point about George Soros and

639
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: the Jews that are funding the immigrants. It's so insane,

640
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: that is mainstream, Sophia. And so this is why we

641
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: need the people of goodwill to stand up. And it's

642
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: attention right for me because I'm actually a nice guy.

643
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: I believe or not. Uh, you and I talk, But

644
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: I at the same time like, what's my rule? Because

645
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: I've gotten in trouble in my career, as you know,

646
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: for reaching out across the aisle, and people say you're normalizing,

647
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: and I said, there has to be a balance where

648
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: I can see the humanity of people who don't see

649
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 1: me as human. I have to be welcoming even though

650
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: I'm not welcomed, and maybe I can convince them, win

651
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: them over. And I've I've seen that in my life.

652
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: I've won them over. But there are other folks where

653
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: I go. If I don't confront it, if I don't

654
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: slap this down, if I don't take outs, it grows.

655
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: And where is that balance? Yeah? I feel that too.

656
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you feel this way. I

657
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: imagine you do because you're a brown man in America,

658
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: and I feel this way because I'm a woman in America.

659
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: Different reason, but same terror I had imagine on some level. Um,

660
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: maybe not same, maybe like cousins of fear. Um. Sometimes

661
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: I get afraid, how far am I going to go

662
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: to confront this? How far am I going to go

663
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: to unpack why this insanity is a lie? A flat

664
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: out lie? How big of a target do I want

665
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: to put on my back? How many? How many more

666
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: death threats a week do I want to get? Because

667
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: I'd really like to not get any. I would like

668
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: for my desire to see America achieve the best of

669
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: her ideals, to not be met with I'm gonna fucking

670
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: kill you, you bitch. I would really love for that

671
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: and not be the reaction. Um as I'm as. I'm

672
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: sure you would love to not be getting the kinds

673
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: of emails that you know you posted just yesterday. And

674
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: I I try to figure out where my place in

675
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: and maybe going a little bit across the aisle to

676
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: have conversations that feel like they might restore some sanity.

677
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: Where is my place there? You know, the day that

678
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: we're recording this episode happens to be a Tuesday, which

679
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: is you know, when we release ours for work in

680
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: progress and our guests today as you and I are

681
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: speaking as Steve Schmidt, and Steve is like you know,

682
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: he was the apple of the Republican Party's I for

683
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: Johnny six years. And this is what I've warned some folks.

684
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: You have to give people your storyteller. We're storytellers, right.

685
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: There has to be a redemption arc for most human beings.

686
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: If people feel that are all their options are closed.

687
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: If people feel that, no matter what they do in

688
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 1: the future, for this reckoning for atonement will not lead

689
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: to some salvation. Basically, what happens is they say, all right,

690
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: let me just put a barn of loose tattoo on

691
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: my head. It's over, and let me then double down

692
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: on this toxic path. I'll give you one quick example

693
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: with an extreme example. I'm doing it on purpose. Is

694
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: I've talked to and befriended former Nazis and KKK members

695
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: and form extremist right. They call themselves formers who were

696
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: took part in hate, who promoted it. But then later

697
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: on they grew up and they realized not just the

698
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: error of their ways, but they realized how self destructive

699
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: it was. And they have, through their experience, become messengers

700
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: to give off ramps to those people they see on

701
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: the path. You have to give humanity an off ramp

702
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: to get to a better path. And so the balance

703
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: for us is okay, it's like, all right, let me

704
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: go biblical for a second. It just fun. It's like

705
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: the Pharaoh, I feel like, because I feel like we're

706
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 1: living in biblical times and Donald Trump is like, he's

707
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 1: like an incompetent pharaoh, right because he's the pharaoh was competent,

708
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: Like this is an incompetent bulgarian pharaoh. But like there's

709
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: a story it's in the Koran. But also a thinking

710
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: of the in the Old Testament, right, whether people who

711
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: are like, oh, you know, Moses, I'm sorry, I didn't know,

712
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: but then I saw you, and I'm I'm gonna join

713
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: you now it's the better path. But then there were

714
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: people who were with the Pharaoh up until the end,

715
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,919
Speaker 1: and they only decided to say, oh, oh wait, wait, wait,

716
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: I'm with you Moses as the Red Sea was collapsing

717
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: right and then, and and if you if you look

718
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 1: at the if theology behind it, God's like, yeah, I

719
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 1: don't accept that. Um, you know, too late. So there

720
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 1: has to be a balance there, I think where people

721
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 1: like you and me, who get subjected to all this

722
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: hate people have no idea. I'm glad you mentioned that.

723
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: And and just yesterday was one of the few times

724
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: I shared it with the tongue in cheek humor. And

725
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: you see me, I have a different style. Um. A

726
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: lot of people expect brown people and black people to

727
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: be like Daffy Duck, to like sit there and get angry.

728
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: I tried to be like bugs Bunny. I always wanted

729
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: to carrot at the end. And I want Yosemite Sam

730
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: to fall in the hole that he's created for me.

731
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: And I think I did that yesterday. Uh, but that

732
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: just a snapshot. People have no idea the stuff that

733
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: you get as a woman and that I get as

734
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: a Musliman and a brown person. The death threats my parents,

735
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: who are armigrants who have been in this country for

736
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: like over forty fifty years. My mom, I'm sure your

737
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 1: mom and dad to do the same thing that what's happening,

738
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: Like bet Son, don't piss off these in Shapiro people.

739
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: It's not worth it. And then the next day, my

740
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: mom and dad always go, but you're doing good work,

741
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: go for it, but great to be careful. And so

742
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: I got kids, and I got a death rate yesterday,

743
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: another one going after my family. And for a brief moment,

744
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: for like two minutes, I thought to myself, what happens

745
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: if someone comes and attacks my kids in my home? Uh?

746
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: For my activism, for my opinions, is it worth it?

747
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: What would I you know, how would I be able

748
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: to reconcile that guilt? But at the same time, I

749
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, and then this is not where

750
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: I ended I don't know where you end up with.

751
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I'm no martyr. I have no

752
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: desire to be a martyr. I'm just a simple person,

753
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: but I feel it is very important for me at

754
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: the end of the day, whenever my life does end,

755
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: that I know that I stood up for something and

756
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: I see where history is taking this country if we

757
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: don't stand up. I'm a student of history. I've connected

758
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: the dots. I've called this out. I've been right the

759
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: last five years. And if I don't stand up now,

760
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: our children's generation is going to inherit this mess. And

761
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: my children will say, Baba, how come you didn't fight?

762
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: So that's what keeps me in it. I feel that

763
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: as well. I feel like, how dare I have the

764
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: privilege of a platform and waste it? And I don't

765
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: want to be a murder either, But I don't think

766
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: I could sleep at night if I wasn't doing every

767
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: single thing that I can two encourage us to be

768
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: better to each other and to encourage us to see

769
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: through the nonsense. You know to your point my yeah,

770
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: my mom will go are you are you being careful? Yes,

771
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: mom um? And I know it's scary for them, you know.

772
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: I I know that there are times where they would

773
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: feel safer if I were less outspoken, But they also

774
00:43:54,760 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: say you know you are, You are beyond our wild streams.

775
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: We could not be more proud of you because you

776
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: don't have to do this, and it's it's tiny things

777
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: like that. God even just telling you that my parents

778
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: said that to me recently, like gave me a moment

779
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: of it was like a little bit of calm washed

780
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: over me, you know, because it's it's a tense time.

781
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: But I want to do right by them. I want

782
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: to do right by the generations coming after us. And

783
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: I do think and I wonder if you feel this

784
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: way because you talked about, you know, your parents coming

785
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: here and the laws changing that allowed for that. Do

786
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: you feel and I do want to get into their

787
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: story also, do do you feel almost I don't know

788
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: if it's a requirement or an obligation, because those things

789
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: can feel sort of negative. I I almost feel a responsibility,

790
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: like a like a pride to push America to be

791
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: amazing because my family came here for it. You know,

792
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: so many families have come here for for what this

793
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: place represents. And we better, we better hold her accountable,

794
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: we better, you know, Baldwin said it, I love this

795
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: country more than any place on earth, and thus I

796
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 1: hold the right, am butchering his quote exactly right. But

797
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: but you know, he says, he says in this I

798
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: hold the right to you know, criticize her perpetually. It's

799
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: a it's such a love, you know, and asking for

800
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: for a leveling up and and and always expanding to

801
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: me anyway, you know. And I wonder if you feel

802
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: that because because your parents immigrated here, they came they did,

803
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: they come straight to California. Or it's my father and

804
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: his older brother at the time, we're very young students

805
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: and we we we and it always goes back to like, oh,

806
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: merrit pull yourself up. But oftentimes people don't the factor

807
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: in luck and serendipity. You know, my parents, my father

808
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: was at right age as a young student when the

809
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: immigration nationality I've passed, right, he got really lucky. Then

810
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: my grandfather pre partition in India, you know, and then

811
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: they moved to Pakistan, you know, made that little bit

812
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: of money, saved it to invest in their education. I've

813
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: gone back to Pakistan several times and I sit there

814
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: and I think about it, and it goes back to

815
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: your question about that that privilege and the luck and

816
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: and and being aware of it. I am not any

817
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: different than any of those kids I see sometimes in

818
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: the Karachi streets and Karace slumps. The only difference is

819
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: that I happened to be born to my father and

820
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: mother who got very lucky that, thanks to the Immigration

821
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 1: Act and the fact that they were educated, were able

822
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: to come here. That's it. That my dad got here

823
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 1: with his brother. They built themselves up, they did multiple jobs,

824
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: them and their friends. Then you know, he was in

825
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: the Midwest, and he was really bright, and he was

826
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: like a t a and then he was also like

827
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: an assistant professor. And then it's like like, you gotta

828
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: get married. You're getting really old. You're thirty. It's over.

829
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: It's ancient. What are you doing? You know, in South

830
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: Asian culture, it's like you're a mummy if you're thirty,

831
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: I mean, get out. And so back in the day.

832
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: And so then he saw a photo of my mom

833
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: in this paper in America, and apparently it was like

834
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: one of those papers that come from Pakistan. And in

835
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: my classic old school dad spartan way, instead of saying

836
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: she's really pretty, she goes I found her intriguing, and

837
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: so he, uh, he asked his father. He says, who

838
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: is this girl my grandfather at time brand it goes, oh,

839
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: hash me, she can't be hash me. I knew a

840
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: hash mean Pokistan. Maybe that's a that's his daughter. And

841
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: so my mom like wance some award, right, because my

842
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: mom was super bright like my father, and that's why

843
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: she was in the paper. And so I think my

844
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: dad had made up his mind that he was going

845
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 1: to marry her. They go to Pakistan where they meet

846
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you if I don't know

847
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: if you guys have seen like Indian Uh what's it

848
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: called Indian marriage? It's on Netflix R and I just

849
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: saw you. I just binged through it last night. Yeah,

850
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: it's wild. It's Indian matrimony or something. It was. So

851
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: it's kind of like that was old school, was arranged marriage.

852
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: My dad with his parents, goes to meet my mom's

853
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: family and they bring up my mom then, right, and

854
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: my mom sits there and my dad sister there and

855
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 1: my mom's kind of my mom says, so you came

856
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: to talk talk, uh, and my and my mom's mom

857
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: my Nanni, my my grandmother like kicked her under the

858
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: table and and she goes, what what And so my

859
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: father smirked and turned to turn to her father and says, oh,

860
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: she uh, she's a she's blunt. Uh. And I think,

861
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: my that's my father's way of saying he was smitting.

862
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 1: So like literally eleven days later they got married. Uh.

863
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: And then my mom came here, and then I was

864
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: born in ninety eight. I'm the only child. For anyone

865
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: who knows anything about Asian cultures, we are breeding people,

866
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: so the fact that I'm an only child is very rare.

867
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: And I'm also left handed, which is very rare in

868
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: Asian and South Asian cultures because the left hand is

869
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: only used for one thing. You want to guess, I

870
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: don't know if I do bathroom No, I swear to God.

871
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: So they tried to convert me. They tried to that

872
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: that you see, talked a lot of South Asian and

873
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: Asian kids and asked them, were you originally left handed?

874
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: A lot of kids get converted, so I was. They

875
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: tried to like. What they did was they held my

876
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: left hand behind my back and they threw tennis balls

877
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: at me, thinking I would catch you with my right hands.

878
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: But I was like a fat kid, so the balls

879
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: just bounced off my stomach. And and then this true story.

880
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 1: I'm not making this up. And then finally they like

881
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 1: it was like five and they finally gave up, and

882
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: they finally gave up. My my, my Wassiassi chat on.

883
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: My father's brother was starting be a doctor. He saw this,

884
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: this this spectacle of human torture, and he's like, let

885
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 1: it go. He is left handed, let it go. And

886
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: they're like fine, But you know, you feel like you

887
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: feel like you feel like there's disappointments right because I

888
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 1: was I'm left No, I'm not just my parents loved me.

889
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: But you know, as the only child of immigrants, right,

890
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: there's no like number two or number three, and so

891
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: me neither. By the way over, only children not common

892
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: for a bunch of Italian Catholic people. You know, we're

893
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: breeding folks, and so I think the weight of just

894
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: being an only childish just forget the immigrant part. Is

895
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: I am my children my parents only seat, So I'm

896
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,479
Speaker 1: carrying on the legacy whatever that means. Then you add

897
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: on the immigrant factor. My parents worked so hard to

898
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: build this community, to build these traditions that we've you know,

899
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: continued where it was so hard for them, where they

900
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: were mocked and ridiculed for their accent, where they were

901
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: mocked and ridiculed for their their their color, where they

902
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: didn't have a chance to pursue their their dream of

903
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: being a storyteller. I've talked to uncles and now in

904
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: their fifties and sixties. I'm like, did you want to

905
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: be an engineer? And they're like, of course not. I

906
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,760
Speaker 1: wanted to be an architect. But I only had two choices.

907
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: I could either go engineering, doctor or business because that

908
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: would give me stability, and that's the money I needed

909
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,879
Speaker 1: to send back home. And so in our the last

910
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: thing I'll say is in our culture, and particularly like

911
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: the immigrant culture, and we joke about this, there's the

912
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: holy trinity of occupations doctors number one, Number two is

913
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: an engineer, and number three is dubious businessman Oh no,

914
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 1: no lawyers and dubious businessman who summon makes a lot

915
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: of money. Uh, and then fourth lawyer. And so when

916
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: you go become writers, like you're a failure, right. And

917
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 1: so for me it's always like, even though my parents

918
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: have always encouraged me, I went on this non traditional path,

919
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: I better succeed, and not only not only for my

920
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: parents generation, but the reason why I do it is

921
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: there's so many South Asian kids who so desperately do

922
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: not want to be doctors or engineers or lawyers, who

923
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: want to be storytellers. And what I've seen in my career,

924
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 1: in my path in the past fifteen years is they

925
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: literally have told me, Yo, I brought my parents to

926
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: your play and I showed them. Look, a brown guy

927
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 1: did it, and white people respected him. Yo. Look that's

928
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: a brown Muslim guys being bold on CNN, and my

929
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: parents respect that. Yo. Look, well, Chatly is like authentically

930
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,959
Speaker 1: brown and Muslim, and he's the New York Times and

931
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: and the whites like him. You know, maybe I can

932
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: do it. And so I've heard parents say, and this

933
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: last thing I'll say, and thank you for letting me

934
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: go on my ted talk Rent. I've heard I heard

935
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: my my I've heard parents say they came to my play.

936
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: One time. He said, my son is in high school.

937
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: He's pursuing this writing. I want him to become a doctor.

938
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: But I saw your play and you know, it was good,

939
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: and so maybe if you can make it, maybe I'll

940
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: encourage him. And so that's also why I do this,

941
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: And like it's not just to honor our parents generation.

942
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: I think what you what you and I were saying

943
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: is we realize we're at this stage in our life,

944
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: in our thirties, where life and death comes. I'm just

945
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: making assumption, but I think you'll agree with me. Life

946
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: and death comes at waves for us. Our teachers are

947
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: passing away, our elders are passing away, our friends are

948
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: having kids. I'm having kids, and you think, what's my

949
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: role here at this moment in life. It's not just

950
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: to be a bridge between the old generation and new generation.

951
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: I had to pave the way for this young duration.

952
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 1: So then, inshallah, God willing, when you and I are

953
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: old and hopefully healthy, that young generation will say the

954
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 1: world's left up. But at least you guys tried, and

955
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 1: at least you guys paved the way for us, and

956
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: we learned through your f ups. Mm hmm. So thank

957
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: you for coming to my ted talk. I'm curious when

958
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: you you know, when you talk about what your parents

959
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: went through, and I love that. Well, before we move on,

960
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: I should really just acknowledge that I love what you're saying.

961
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: That in a way, we sit on this precipice and

962
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: there is this desire to honor the past and also

963
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: to build this new path forward. Um. In a way

964
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm realizing, you know, per our earlier conversation, that's kind

965
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: of the way I look at the country too. I think, look,

966
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: we're right in the middle of this spot, and if

967
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: we don't honor all of the past, we can't build

968
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: the future. And to me, honoring all of the past

969
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: means the good, the bad, and the ugly and the beautiful. UM.

970
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: And I want I want the future to be good

971
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: and beautiful. But I am curious because you know, you said,

972
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: and it was such a blip on the radar in

973
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: that beautiful moment that you just shared, but you said,

974
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, the racism, the discrimination that our parents experienced.

975
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 1: I know that you were born in the Bay Area

976
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: of California, and a lot of people think of the

977
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: Bay Area as being like very diverse, very progressive. Was

978
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: was it not in the eighties for your parents? So

979
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: I was very spoiled in the fact that I grew

980
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 1: up in the Bay Area, California, uh, mostly Fremont, we

981
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: call it Freemont stant And my America was my car

982
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: pool to the all boys Jesuit Catholic high school bellermen

983
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: with grav singh my Hindu friend, Alan Laggins, my black

984
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 1: Christian friend whose parents are from Africa, and Iron Wrothback,

985
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: my Jewish friend. Uh, talking about Star Trek. You know, um,

986
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: I was very lucky that I got that snapshot of America,

987
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: that mosaic of America, in that microcosm of the Bay Area.

988
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: At the same time, though, uh, you know, for my parents,

989
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: even though they had a great you know, they don't

990
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: sit there and complain about it. But yeah, my my dad,

991
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: you know, told me recently, with what's happening in this country,

992
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: He's like, I came to this country in ninety six,

993
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 1: I lived through those protests, I lived through the war.

994
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: I saw what was happening, and this is something really

995
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: encouraging if you really think about this is gonna be

996
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: something heartwarming, he said. At that time, you know, we

997
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: we're really struggling for equality. But the white majority fled

998
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: to Nixon. If you remember in the late sixties, right,

999
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: they were terrified. He says, This time I look out

1000
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: with Jahat and I'm seeing these protests and I'm seeing

1001
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 1: these demonstrations. This time there with us, and he goes

1002
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: there with us. What was really powerful about that is,

1003
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: he said, us and The reason why I want to

1004
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: just focus on that for a second is he included

1005
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 1: himself with the solidarity movement of people going for progress

1006
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: for my parents generation. And I think this goes across

1007
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: not just South Asia, but a lot of immigrants. You'll

1008
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: hear them say this, those who are in their sixteas

1009
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 1: and seventies. Oh, those are just what Americans do. Oh,

1010
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: those Americans. And they do it kind of unconsciously, and

1011
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 1: I've always challenged them. I'm like, wait a second, you're

1012
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,959
Speaker 1: also American. They go, oh, you know what I mean.

1013
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: And I think unconsciously what that immigrant generation does is

1014
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: they kind of separate themselves because America is code word

1015
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:46,720
Speaker 1: for what to them, well, and they never felt fully

1016
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,240
Speaker 1: welcomed by American. You weren't allowed to assimilate by America.

1017
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 1: They weren't seen as fully Amrican. You're not seen as

1018
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: the ordinary American. You're not seen as being part of

1019
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: the homeland of the heartland of the rust belt. You

1020
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: are not seen as being quote unquote wait for it, electable.

1021
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 1: In fact, if you have two X chromosomes, you're still

1022
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: not seen as being electable. You're not seen as the mainstream.

1023
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: You are Sophia ethnic. It's coded, subtle DNA embedded within

1024
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: everything of America, housing, media, jobs, language. So if you're

1025
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: a person of color and immigrant, even if you don't

1026
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: consciously sit here and wrestle with this like we have

1027
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: been for the past hour, you unconsciously absorb all of this.

1028
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: And so I think for my parents generation, Uh, even

1029
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: though we grew up very lucky in the Bay Area

1030
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: and eventually the various suburbs with that type of diversity

1031
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: that is unfortunately, you know, lacking in say West Virginia. Uh,

1032
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: it is inescapable when you turn on the TV and

1033
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: you either see yourself erased or villainized, and you sit

1034
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: there and go, this is what this country thinks of me?

1035
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: And one is quick story I'll tell you is you

1036
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: know you and me are storytellers. I started off as

1037
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: a playwright. I don't know if people know that Africa's Yeah,

1038
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: that was I wrote a play in Uh. I was

1039
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: a senior nine eleven U C. Berkeley, undeclared in a

1040
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: short story writing class top by Ishma read The Two

1041
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: Towers Fell. I was a leader of the Muslim student Association.

1042
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, all of a sudden, just like now,

1043
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: this was. That was my baptism of fire, you know

1044
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: for this young generations, the Trump administration for us, I

1045
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: was twenty. Uh. That was our moment of reckoning. That

1046
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: was my X Men endanger room simulation where I got

1047
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 1: all my training because now I have to be an activist.

1048
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: I have to be a leader. I'm giving speeches and

1049
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: I'm the whole time, I'm like, why do I have

1050
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: a microphone? From three people? I have to figure out

1051
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: my major. And my teacher, who's an African American Titan

1052
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: of literature of McArthur Genius is schmau Read. I was

1053
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: in short story short story writing class. He said, I'm

1054
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: gonna take you out of the short story writing class

1055
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: because I think you're a playwright story, dialogue and characters

1056
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: re strength. Do you write me a play? Uh? Why

1057
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 1: don't you write me a play like Death of a

1058
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 1: Salesman or Fences? Uh? An American classic. But from the

1059
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: perspective of what are you again? I said, Boksni Muslim, overweight, terrified.

1060
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, write me a perspective like of of

1061
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: an American family who's Pakistani Muslim. And you have twenty

1062
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: You have two months to give me twenty pages or

1063
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: will fail. And I remember when he told me this.

1064
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: He said, I'm a black man looking at what's happening

1065
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: in this country. You're gonna get hazed for the next

1066
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: ten years. And he says, the way we have fought

1067
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: back black people, it's primarily through arts and culture. We've

1068
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: told our story, so you should tell your story. And

1069
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: and the reason I'm going to connect this real quick

1070
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: is I did my play. First time I did was

1071
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: two thousand four. I did it for my community, and

1072
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: a South Asian Muslim uncle came up to me and said, better,

1073
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 1: why are you wasting your time on this useless stuff

1074
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: like plays. Do something useful like go protest, and then

1075
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: you fast forward five years. I did the play in

1076
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: two thousand nine at in New York Market, and then

1077
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: you've played got some success. But he was witnessing the

1078
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: post nine eleven hazing because he had made the American dream.

1079
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,959
Speaker 1: He was in the suburbs, he had a six figure job,

1080
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: he had the two point three kids. He thought that,

1081
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, America loved him, and he saw that he

1082
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: was still an outsider. So he told me, I turned

1083
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 1: on the TV, and they still see me as either

1084
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: a terrorist or a cab driver. I wish I would

1085
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: have made my sons, at least one of them to

1086
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: a journalistic storyteller like you. So my prayers are with

1087
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: you keep telling our story. So you asked me a

1088
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: very simple question, and I went kind of on a

1089
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: on a path there. But for that older generation, I think,

1090
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: and you were mentioning your parents, My parents love AOC.

1091
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: My parents love all these progressive activists, and I'm like,

1092
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: you guys were like, really traditional what happens? He goes.

1093
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: I love the passion. I love the fact that they're outspoken.

1094
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: I love the fact that they're smart, and I love

1095
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: the fact that they're finally people who look like us

1096
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: are finally rising. And so that's why I feel like

1097
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: to see my parents general ration have this moment of

1098
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: like just where they feel like they can flex a bit.

1099
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: That's and I feel like that even fuels me even further.

1100
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: If you and I succeed, that generation looks and says

1101
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: they get to do everything we couldn't do, that we

1102
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: were not allowed to do. Mm hm. So I think

1103
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: that's powerful. I'm curious for you. You know, there's so

1104
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: many things I want to ask you about. And I

1105
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: talked too much so, I mean, by the way, so

1106
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: do I. But hello, we could do this all day.

1107
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: But there's there there are some things I think are

1108
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: really interesting. You know, you you you talked about the play,

1109
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: and I'd love for you to tell people you know

1110
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 1: what it is and what it's about. But I'm also

1111
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: curious about when we talk about you growing up in

1112
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: the Bay Area and your car pool talking about Star

1113
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: wars Um, you know, the tennis ball story, your family

1114
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: finally having to accept that you're a left handed kid.

1115
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you go from being a kind of

1116
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: awkward left handed kid who who started school only knowing

1117
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 1: three words of English, which I know about you too,

1118
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: becoming a play right by the time you were in college, Like,

1119
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 1: how how does that happen? What what steers you as

1120
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: a child? How how does how does that pathway open

1121
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:21,479
Speaker 1: for you? You know, without giving you my entire life

1122
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: history and the lived time, but for sake of brevity,

1123
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: I think, first and foremost, there is a natural desire

1124
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: I think that I had and probably you had, uh

1125
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: that we took joy in sharing and telling stories, and

1126
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: that joy and that passion, that creativity always existed in me.

1127
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 1: But it existed in a shy, awkward, overweight kid who

1128
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: were husky pants, who who just couldn't talk to girls

1129
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: to save his life. And it was just you know,

1130
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: just left hand, just awkward, and it was I think

1131
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: there's a theme in this conversation of progress right. Nothing

1132
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 1: happens over. And I think it's important for people who

1133
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: are listening, who who want to become storytellers, who want

1134
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: to get the platform. They think, oh, we just made it,

1135
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 1: And I think it's important to talk about the failures

1136
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: because the failures are what help us on this journey,

1137
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: the steps right. And so I fell into it because

1138
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: I'll just give you one story. I was ten years old.

1139
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: I was so sick they were gonna like kick me

1140
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 1: out of school. I had terrible allergies, I was overweight,

1141
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 1: I was shy, and miss Peterson from Kentucky gave me

1142
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: a short story. Uh excuse me. Miss Peterson from Kentucky

1143
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: gave us an assignment to write a one page short story.

1144
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: I wrote a ten page shorts story and she gave

1145
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: me an a plus plus plus plus and then she said,

1146
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 1: she said, you have to get up in front of

1147
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: the home room and recite the story. And I'm like

1148
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm fat, I'm scared. No, she goes do it,

1149
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: and then I did it, and for the first time

1150
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 1: ever in my home room, class like applauded and they

1151
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 1: were with I had them, they were with me. Then

1152
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: she said, you should recite this in front of the

1153
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: talent show, which includes the upper classmate, the fifth and

1154
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: sixth raders and seventh graders. And I'm like, now, please,

1155
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm fat, I'm sorry. She goes do it, and I

1156
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: did it, and I had them, and really, it was

1157
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: that moment where I realized, I'm I might have unlocked

1158
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: a superhero power. And I've shared the story before, but

1159
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: it's the true story. It's a good story. I went home,

1160
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: I gave that story to my father, who was drinking

1161
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: try He read it and he said, better, I think

1162
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: you have a talent. I think should become a writer.

1163
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: And my mom was in the kitchen. She ran out

1164
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: and she said, but first, become a doctor. True story.

1165
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: But it was like, you know, it was just it

1166
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: was a progress. And then once that happened, you get

1167
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: a little bit of a confidence. And then I kind

1168
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 1: of became the class clown and I was able to

1169
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,479
Speaker 1: like involve my teachers and the jokes, and I got

1170
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: more confidence and in and in high school, I always

1171
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: wanted to do the improv comedy. The troop was called

1172
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 1: Sanguine Humors. I auditioned each year. I was so shy.

1173
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: Each time I held back. I held back, I held back.

1174
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: I got rejected my fourth year, my senior year, I said,

1175
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: if it's my last year, I'm gonna just put myself

1176
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: out there. Whatever happens opens and I went. I went

1177
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 1: for broke. I killed. I killed, and they're literally are like, yo,

1178
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 1: you're in. And so then I started flexing with uh

1179
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 1: with comedy. We go to college. In college, I don't

1180
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: know what I want to be. I'm like you. I

1181
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: I took everything. I had no idea what I took

1182
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: every class like econ, I took World Religions, I took English,

1183
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,959
Speaker 1: I took anthropology. Like that's how I am. I feel

1184
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: like we were like these um generalists, which is not

1185
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: a disk like we just we're intrigued by a lot

1186
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 1: of things, being curious about everything. So I did student

1187
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: advocacy and I did the activism. I got in the

1188
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: Muslim Students Association because the first time I saw Muslims,

1189
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: I was so excited. And then we started our own

1190
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 1: sketch comedy troupe. It was the first cats comedy troupe

1191
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 1: in Berkeley, and I originally came in as a writer,

1192
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 1: but apparently I was the one who was able to

1193
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: memorize the most dialogue and I did the most characters,

1194
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: so I ended up anchoring most of the sketches. So

1195
01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: I ended up become like the lead actor than the

1196
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: r And so people are like, yo, you're like praying

1197
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 1: and like at Friday prayers and you're leading like these protests.

1198
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: And then I see you wearing a skirt being a

1199
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: Scottish immigrant, uh, you know in the sketch called Scottish Gardens,

1200
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 1: which is like it's about an ordinary Scottish immigrant who

1201
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: tried to like steal all of gardens. Who calls it

1202
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: the Scottish Gardens, right, So they're like, yo, what's up

1203
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: with that? And so all of this is to say,

1204
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: is that the stuff that I did out of passion

1205
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: just storytelling. The movies that gosh If and I made

1206
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: during summers because we were dorics and no one used

1207
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: to invite us. We made home movies where I was

1208
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: a lead actor and he was the director, and we

1209
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 1: used to write it together. All of that laid the foundation.

1210
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 1: My director told me Carla Blanc of me becoming the

1211
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 1: playwright and the play that we did, which, by the way,

1212
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: I did it for my I started from my twenty

1213
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: first birthday in two thousand one. I finished it from

1214
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 1: my twenty third birthday as a present to myself in

1215
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: two thousand three. It's about a Muslim boxitery American family.

1216
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: Five members of a family suck in a house. It's

1217
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: called the Domestic Crusaders. I was mocked and ridiculed by

1218
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 1: both my community and mainstream America. Mainstream America said that

1219
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: the mainstream will not be into it. One agent said

1220
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 1: that white people won't get it because there's no white people.

1221
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: Another agent said, for your next piece, put white people

1222
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 1: in it so they can empathize. Other people said there's

1223
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: too much lu and Arabic in there. There's too much

1224
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 1: like foreign stuff. Get rid of it or pret a

1225
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 1: glossary and l A producer said, I love the play,

1226
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: but we should make Ted Danson the Pakistani immigrant father.

1227
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: And I laughed, thinking it was a joke, and he

1228
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: didn't laugh, like we are you serious? I said, I

1229
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 1: loved ted dance and cheers is great white ted dancing,

1230
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 1: he said, Americans, white Americans like ted dancing. And so

1231
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 1: there is a story that I want to give here

1232
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: is I was a stubborn ship. I am a stubborn ship,

1233
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 1: and I kept persisting throughout my entire career. And we

1234
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 1: got that play published in twenty and I just got

1235
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,959
Speaker 1: this email from mc sweeneys, who published it last week

1236
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: on their own, saying we're gonna republish this play with

1237
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: the election coming up, because we read it again and

1238
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 1: we're like, wow, this is really topical and we think

1239
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: this play and this story should be out there, and

1240
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: do you mind if we republish it. I'm like, go ahead.

1241
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: And that play, which everyone said would not have any life,

1242
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: is being taught at colleges seventeen years later and before

1243
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 1: COVID University of Virginia theater department called me and said, Yo,

1244
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: can we do a stage reading? And I want to

1245
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: teach this play to my class. And the play has

1246
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,679
Speaker 1: been performed in Canada and New York and England and

1247
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: and the Bay Area. People have gone in there, uh

1248
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: Matt their doctorate on that play in Egypt and London,

1249
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:52,600
Speaker 1: in California. And so when everyone someone tells you to

1250
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:56,640
Speaker 1: take away the merch, the massala, the specifics, all the

1251
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:02,799
Speaker 1: stuff that is erased to assimilate, I want the opposite direction.

1252
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: The universal I found is in this specific and and

1253
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 1: I became the storyteller through a process of failure and

1254
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: humiliation but also encouragement. There were people who encourage me.

1255
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: And sometimes all you need and I'll leave, I'll leave,

1256
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:19,960
Speaker 1: I'll leave this answer on this. You'll see someone in

1257
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 1: your family, in your community that you think really has

1258
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 1: a talent. And and I say this for women and

1259
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 1: people of color in particular. Oftentimes we're just told our

1260
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: stories don't matter, and we're told not to flex, we're

1261
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: told to self efface, and we do. And all we

1262
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: need sometimes is that one person in our family or

1263
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:49,879
Speaker 1: in our squad who says, that was a really good poem.

1264
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 1: You should continue writing poems, or Sophia, you have a talent.

1265
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 1: You're really good when you got up in front of

1266
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 1: the family, and then those impressions, I think you're really good.

1267
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: You should do it. And we we underestimate the power

1268
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,560
Speaker 1: that has And I have a friend, Hussan Minaj. You

1269
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: know I'm older than and we've known each other for

1270
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 1: a long time and he talks about this. You know,

1271
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 1: he didn't get that affirmation from his dad. He was

1272
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: like searching for it forever and now he finally has

1273
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: it right, but he kept there's so many. I'm sure

1274
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: you know that. There's so many of our colleagues and peers.

1275
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to name them. If you knew them,

1276
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 1: you're like, WHOA to this day, they're still looking for

1277
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: that affirmation from their dad or their mom. You know

1278
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,879
Speaker 1: this because you know, and they're like that that trauma

1279
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,719
Speaker 1: and that pain is real. They were able to sustain

1280
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: it and move through it. But there's so many who

1281
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: destroy and paralyze that talent in their dream within themselves

1282
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: because they don't get that mentorship that that that And

1283
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: so I was really lucky that my parents always supported me,

1284
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 1: my friends supported me. And that's what I've been trying

1285
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 1: to do, is that you know, when you see me

1286
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 1: on CNN going toe to toe, or when you see

1287
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 1: me on a panel kicking ass, or you see me

1288
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: writing for the New York Times, that was a journey

1289
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 1: of a kid who didn't speak English and who was

1290
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 1: so shy that he used to sweat profusely when he

1291
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 1: used to give when he used to give speeches. Um.

1292
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 1: And so it's very important for people to know that

1293
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: that it's a progress and it's a path, but that

1294
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 1: path is made so much easier when you at least

1295
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 1: have one person in your corner. Yeah, well in that path,

1296
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 1: you know, to get to brag on you for a second,

1297
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 1: as as your friend. This path that led you. You know,

1298
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: you say you're a recovering lawyer. I love that, like

1299
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: in the middle of all this storytelling, you happened to

1300
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I'll also go to law school. I'll

1301
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:42,720
Speaker 1: just um. But you know, this path led you to

1302
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:47,560
Speaker 1: become a Peabody nominated producer. You you made this incredible

1303
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 1: series called The Secret Life of Muslims, which is these

1304
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 1: short form, first person documentary films that feature all kinds

1305
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:02,679
Speaker 1: of Muslims in America. Uh you Um. You were also

1306
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 1: the lead author and researcher of a seminal report that

1307
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 1: came from the Center for American Progress called Fear inc.

1308
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: The Roots of Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America. Um.

1309
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: And you're mentioning that Domestic Crusaders is going to be

1310
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: republished by MC Sweeney's, which is phenomenal because now the

1311
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 1: listeners know where they can go to find it. But

1312
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 1: for the first to where can folks who want to

1313
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:30,360
Speaker 1: learn more? Where can people watch Secret Life of Muslims?

1314
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 1: Where can people find the Fear inc Report? Because if

1315
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 1: I know my audience and I think I do, one

1316
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: of the things I love most about them is when

1317
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: I say we have homework to do, listeners do it

1318
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: and then and then they hit me up, they send

1319
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: me d m s, they they send feedback on projects.

1320
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: So you know, my, my people who are listening at home,

1321
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:55,640
Speaker 1: these are the kinds my peeps like, these are the

1322
01:12:55,720 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: kinds of incredibly eye opening um content stream that that

1323
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 1: you can go and put your eyeballs on and and

1324
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 1: become even more intelligent and cool and smart than you

1325
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 1: all already are. So where where are these things? Find

1326
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 1: a ball? So they're all they all exist on the internets.

1327
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm a creature of the internets. I will say this.

1328
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 1: The Fear Incorporated Investigative Report is called Fear Incorporated The

1329
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,679
Speaker 1: Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America. It's a hundred

1330
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:25,680
Speaker 1: thirty pages. Don't read the all the thirty pages for

1331
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 1: your nerves but we deliberately did an executive summary, which

1332
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 1: is like a few pages, and we did like graphics.

1333
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 1: The reason why I'm stressed stressing that is I did

1334
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: the in two thousand eleven, right before Barack Causine Obama

1335
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 1: is being elected again. I was asked to do that

1336
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 1: because at that time, the think tank said, where are

1337
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: all these anti Muslim memes coming from? Obama's a Muslim

1338
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 1: and Sharia is a threat to America. We trace the funding,

1339
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: connected the dots and showed how the infrastructure works where

1340
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 1: a talking point that emerges from a think tank literally

1341
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: becomes a talking point for Donald Trump. The reason why

1342
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: I'm mentioning this right now is at that time when

1343
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 1: it came out there like wh you're crazy. However, Andres Brevik,

1344
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: the mass murderer, ended up killing seventy seven people coinciding

1345
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 1: with the release of that document, and the people that

1346
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 1: we mentioned in that document, he cites in his manifesto

1347
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 1: that he was inspired by them when he went attacked

1348
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:24,840
Speaker 1: and killed Muslims. You fast forward nine years, the people

1349
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:30,719
Speaker 1: in that document who were considered fringe are now either

1350
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 1: in the White House or one step removed away from

1351
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:37,599
Speaker 1: the Trump White House. That's terrifying. Yeah, and so to

1352
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:39,639
Speaker 1: take a look at that, and then Secret Life of Muslims.

1353
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: Just google Secret Life of Muslims and you'll see these

1354
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 1: really wonderful videos, like great videos of a lot of

1355
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:47,599
Speaker 1: celebrities that you know, you probably didn't think we're Muslim

1356
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 1: and just talking about the stuff we're talking about, like

1357
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: how it is to be a Muslim, uh, and some

1358
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 1: of these wonderful vignettes about people and the amazing things

1359
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 1: they're doing. And Biden just yesterday, you know, going off

1360
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,639
Speaker 1: the conversation with Cook, you were saying, is Biden yesterday said,

1361
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, I wish schools taught uh more about Islam,

1362
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 1: and the right wing freaked out. And I always kept

1363
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 1: telling people like you said, I'm a practicing Muslim, went

1364
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 1: to an all boys Jesuit Catholic high school, who studied

1365
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 1: the Bible, who went to Israel and Jerusalem, studied Judaism.

1366
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 1: I studied Hinduism and Buddhism in college. I'm still a

1367
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 1: practicing Muslim. By the way, learning is not scary. Learning

1368
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 1: is good, and it's made me more informed. It's made

1369
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: me empathize with people when people are doing their specific

1370
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 1: rituals I know what they're doing. When I mentioned it,

1371
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 1: they feel like a sense of like they get heartened.

1372
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, wow, you know this and you get

1373
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 1: taste your food. So don't be afraid of learning people. Yeah,

1374
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 1: I just love that. That's exactly That's exactly how I've

1375
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: always felt and I and I do find it wild,

1376
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, to your point about what was considered fringe

1377
01:15:55,080 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: in being everywhere in does it seem odd to you

1378
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 1: that that so many people are are having a moment

1379
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 1: that seems, at least from the outside, like they're just

1380
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 1: discovering that racism is real, or somophobia or or misogyny.

1381
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm wondering how or maybe it had

1382
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 1: to get this bad for for people to to have

1383
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 1: a real reckoning with it. But but when we talk

1384
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: about what has been and you in particular, highlight you know,

1385
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 1: the perpetuation of these myths about your faith that hit

1386
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 1: mainstream in I think so much about how when there

1387
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 1: are acts of terror in the US. Anytime I hear

1388
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 1: about one, I hold my breath and I just go,

1389
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: please don't, please don't, please don't, please don't, because I

1390
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: don't I don't want the person who committed some kind

1391
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: of act of violence to be any shade of not white,

1392
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: because I know what's going to happen to those communities

1393
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 1: if they are. And then what I'm always shocked about.

1394
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 1: And that's not to say obviously I want white people.

1395
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to be committing committing frigging domestic terrorism.

1396
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 1: It's terrifying. But I'm always so dumbfounded by when it's

1397
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 1: a white guy, he gets called a lone wolf, mentally unstable,

1398
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 1: or a sad boy. But when someone perpetuates an act

1399
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 1: of terror, who is a brown person, who is a

1400
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 1: Muslim person, who is a black person, Um, you know,

1401
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 1: I think about what happened in Dallas. You know, a

1402
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:41,320
Speaker 1: black man in uniform, it turns into something that it

1403
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: doesn't when it's a white guy. Usually did the minority prayer.

1404
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:49,679
Speaker 1: The minority prayer is when there is an active domestic terrorism,

1405
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:51,720
Speaker 1: all of us sit there and pray to God, please

1406
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:53,080
Speaker 1: let it be a white guy. Please let me a

1407
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 1: white guy. Not because we have anything that's white people.

1408
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,559
Speaker 1: It's because we know that whoever is considered white will

1409
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 1: not be held responsible for the criminal action of one

1410
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 1: or two individuals. Well, there isn't a backlash against white

1411
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 1: people in their communities, like like what I see when

1412
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:14,800
Speaker 1: when something happens, you know, for example, and of course

1413
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 1: it's a horrific thing that happened, but also so many

1414
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 1: horrific things have happened throughout history, and it's it's the

1415
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 1: response being different that baffles me. You know. I remember

1416
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: after nine eleven happened, watching friends of mine and watching

1417
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 1: footage of people, you know, being screamed at people by

1418
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:36,200
Speaker 1: by people who look like me, people who look like

1419
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 1: you being screamed at by people who look like me.

1420
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:40,640
Speaker 1: Go home, and I'm like, that person lives here. What

1421
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 1: are you saying? Like that person is as much an

1422
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 1: American as you are. And you see it now with

1423
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 1: Corona because Trump can't help it be a racist, so

1424
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:51,640
Speaker 1: he's calling it the you know, the Chinese virus, and

1425
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, this is a novel coronavirus. There have

1426
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 1: been coronaviruses around the world for years. We have we

1427
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 1: literally have eleven international labs studying them, which is the

1428
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 1: only reason we're so far along the path to a

1429
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 1: vaccine already. Yet he's trying because this came out of

1430
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:10,879
Speaker 1: Wuhan to say it's China's fault, which is so crazy

1431
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 1: to me. And I see, you know, these lovely Asian

1432
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:17,559
Speaker 1: American people being screamed at in the streets of the

1433
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 1: United States go home, and I'm like, this is their home,

1434
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 1: and hate crimes have increased against so much, so so much.

1435
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 1: It's a collective blame, right, It's like, so, it's the

1436
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 1: reason I call it the minority prayer is when a

1437
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:35,280
Speaker 1: white guy does it, all of whiteness is not blamed

1438
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 1: or whiteness is not indicted, All of whiteness is not convicted,

1439
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:41,560
Speaker 1: all of whiteness is not sentenced, all of whiteness is

1440
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: not summoned in front of a nameless judge during the

1441
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:48,680
Speaker 1: executioner to condemn terrorism, and their loyalty and patriotism is

1442
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 1: not held a suspect. When it's the rest of us.

1443
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:53,759
Speaker 1: It's not just all of our communities, it's our ethnicity,

1444
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 1: it's our religion, which is indicted, convicted, and sentenced. So

1445
01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 1: where are the moderate Muslims? And how come we haven't

1446
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:01,599
Speaker 1: condemned rorism? And I'm like, bro, I don't know this guy,

1447
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 1: I've never met him. He's committed a violent act in

1448
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 1: a country I've never visited. And the media coverage is

1449
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:11,920
Speaker 1: that whenever there is a Muslim UH suspect versus a

1450
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 1: white suspect of domestic terrorism, there's four times as much

1451
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:19,600
Speaker 1: TV coverage, seven times as much newspaper coverage. And the

1452
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 1: labeling is important, like you said, when it's a white guy,

1453
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:26,759
Speaker 1: lone wolf, radical, quiet, shy guy, UH. Whenever someone even

1454
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 1: suspects a Muslim without any motivation, immediately terrorism, which makes

1455
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 1: the whole label of terrorism so silly in the last

1456
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 1: twenty years, because who gets to be a terrorist, and

1457
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:40,000
Speaker 1: usually it is is defined by your melanin, your skin tone.

1458
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: And the number one domestic terroristreat in America, ladies and gentlemen,

1459
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 1: is white supremacist terrorism. Yeah, And the FBI has been

1460
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: releasing reports about the dangers of white supremacist terrorism, about

1461
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 1: this resurgence of this neo Nazi nightmare, and white people

1462
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:58,799
Speaker 1: want to ignore it. And and I guess I don't.

1463
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:01,960
Speaker 1: I don't unders standard because to your point when you said,

1464
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 1: like some guy did something in a country I've never

1465
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 1: even been to, what what does us have to do

1466
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 1: with me? Like I don't know any white people who

1467
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 1: during the i RA a crisis in Ireland, were being

1468
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: asked to like condemn violence. People were like, oh my god,

1469
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 1: this crazy thing is happening. Have you seen there's a bomb?

1470
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 1: It wasn't blamed on us, And I wonder, you know,

1471
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 1: and you just highlighted at the difference in coverage. But

1472
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 1: I am also curious when we talk about media and

1473
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 1: its role because you are a journalist, you work in media.

1474
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: You so often are are asked to be on panels

1475
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:39,720
Speaker 1: where these things are discussed. You're asked, you know, you

1476
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:42,160
Speaker 1: talk about in your bio that you you're you kind

1477
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: of feel like the Spider Man of like token brown

1478
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 1: guys in in these spaces. And I hate to laugh,

1479
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 1: but I was like, God, that's a good way. You

1480
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:53,600
Speaker 1: only like that your I like that you used the

1481
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 1: Spider Man analogy, like you're funny buddy. Um, Like I

1482
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 1: just I appreciate your sense of humor, even and even

1483
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: in these wild spaces. But I'm curious, have you ever

1484
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:08,600
Speaker 1: had to say or ask that when you are announced

1485
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 1: on a panel or as a speaker, you are not

1486
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:15,880
Speaker 1: announced as Muslim journalist watch a hot Ali, you know,

1487
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:19,920
Speaker 1: have you ever had to say like, well done, yeah,

1488
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 1: But it's like, have you ever had to say, could

1489
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 1: you just maybe call me a journalist? Could you could

1490
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,479
Speaker 1: you announced me in some other way, you know, so

1491
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:30,640
Speaker 1: we'll make this juicy. I don't know. I don't know

1492
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,680
Speaker 1: if I've actually discussed this on a podcast before, but

1493
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:38,480
Speaker 1: uh sen n a couple of years ago, it was inauguration.

1494
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: I think I wasn't a contributor at that time, but

1495
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 1: I remember the first couple of times it kept bringing

1496
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:47,879
Speaker 1: me on. They announced and now we have a Muslim journalist,

1497
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:49,519
Speaker 1: which I had to leave, and I'm sitting there on

1498
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 1: TV and I just smiled, like you said I have

1499
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 1: a sense of humor. I'm like, I didn't put that

1500
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:55,840
Speaker 1: in my bio, and uh. It was like you know

1501
01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:57,640
Speaker 1: that the host and the producer always kind to me.

1502
01:22:57,760 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 1: I had a great time at seeing it. It It wasn't

1503
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,479
Speaker 1: like trying to be like, you know, dismissive, a rude,

1504
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 1: but like, and now we have Muslim journalists, which Hatally,

1505
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 1: uh and another white lady and now we have a

1506
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 1: Muslim journalists which Hathly. And so I remember the first

1507
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:13,559
Speaker 1: time it was like I was speaking my Jeff sessions, uh,

1508
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 1: and They're like, what you Hathily as a Muslim, what

1509
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:18,880
Speaker 1: do you think about the possibility of Jeff Sessions becoming

1510
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:21,679
Speaker 1: Attorney General, and as a person of color and a woman,

1511
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:24,479
Speaker 1: we have realized that we have the trojan horse certain

1512
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: situations to our advantage. So what I said was this.

1513
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 1: It was I said, well, I could tell you as

1514
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 1: a Muslim, but I can also tell you as an

1515
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 1: American why he's bad for all of our communities. Pivot

1516
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:35,720
Speaker 1: and I did my homework, and I kicked ask for

1517
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 1: two minutes, and she was fact checking me in real life,

1518
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 1: and she's like, we he he seems to be right.

1519
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: And then again Muslim journalists Muslim joal. So I never

1520
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 1: corrected it. I always smiled. But it came to a

1521
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 1: point where people were watching and they're like, what the

1522
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 1: f is a Muslim journalist? And how come no one

1523
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 1: ever introduced anyone as like, here's the Jew, now the Catholic,

1524
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: now the white lady. So it's it's I've never been

1525
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:01,960
Speaker 1: introduced as white actress, white actor sophia. And and not

1526
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: only that, the ghettoization and the pigeon holding of your

1527
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 1: expertise and your value is limited only as the Muslim,

1528
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:14,759
Speaker 1: only as the woman, only as the black person. Because

1529
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,120
Speaker 1: they kept saying again as a Muslim, what do you think?

1530
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:18,799
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I can tell you as an American

1531
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,120
Speaker 1: it happens to me a Muslim. And so that happened

1532
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:22,720
Speaker 1: again the next week. They invited me because I did

1533
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:25,439
Speaker 1: so well. They're like, you know John Lewis, rest in peace,

1534
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 1: speaking about a titan and carry on his legacy. But

1535
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 1: if you remember, Trump mocked Lewis. So they brought me

1536
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,680
Speaker 1: on again on a panel. There was a panel ful

1537
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:36,800
Speaker 1: full of people they brought they introduced everyone else and

1538
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 1: now are like, and now Muslim journalists with Jently, how

1539
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:42,519
Speaker 1: does it feel to you? And I'm like, I could

1540
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:45,120
Speaker 1: tell you as an American why this is bad? And

1541
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:51,639
Speaker 1: so it's how do you escape in confront and booby

1542
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 1: trap and Trojan Horse and explode these boxes that they

1543
01:24:57,040 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 1: put us in, and they put women in all the

1544
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:03,719
Speaker 1: time where these stereotypes are used against you. You're seen

1545
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 1: as being too emotional, You're not seen as being um neutral,

1546
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 1: you're not seen as being objective. You're only good for

1547
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 1: the women's stories. You're on the woman beat, and you're like, yo,

1548
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 1: life intersects and I could talk about all these things

1549
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: in one podcast. Uh, but when you're white it's like yogurt,

1550
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:25,679
Speaker 1: you can be everything. Uh, And I'm like, I would

1551
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:31,519
Speaker 1: like to be yogurt, but you know, tasty yogurt. Yeah, yeah,

1552
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:36,960
Speaker 1: just vanilla and vanilla. Some of my favorite yogurt is vanilla.

1553
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:39,960
Speaker 1: But that's actually the hilarious thing is that when I

1554
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 1: talk about being able to see through the lie of whiteness,

1555
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 1: then I occasionally get some white people who get real

1556
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 1: mad at me and or like, why are you apologizing

1557
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 1: for being white? And I'm like, no, I'm not. I

1558
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 1: just I see that a system. There's a difference between

1559
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 1: being an individual and being in a system. Yeah, there's

1560
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:01,439
Speaker 1: a difference between being the human you are and being

1561
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:04,800
Speaker 1: stereotyped for something. And it's like, it's so clear to

1562
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: me that the system of whiteness, that the the dying

1563
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:14,680
Speaker 1: beast of white supremacy, has nothing for me. I like

1564
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 1: myself better knowing that actually, and I still look the same,

1565
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:20,960
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm I try to encourage people who

1566
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 1: who are nervous about the conversation. I'm like, coming here,

1567
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:27,000
Speaker 1: the water is warm, it's really nice, and like there's

1568
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:30,960
Speaker 1: really better food. We're friendly and there's like if you know,

1569
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:34,160
Speaker 1: if you don't like if you don't like swimming, there's floaties, yeah,

1570
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:37,680
Speaker 1: for sure, Like we have all the things I have.

1571
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: This woman and of course, like you know, angry white

1572
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:43,840
Speaker 1: lady like yelling at me the other day and she

1573
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 1: was like, why don't you take your coloring books and

1574
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,800
Speaker 1: your support dogs to Canada? And I was like, first

1575
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 1: of all, I love coloring books, and second of all,

1576
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 1: like you're a mom of two young kids. I hope

1577
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 1: neither of your dogs ever needs a support animal. But

1578
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:58,320
Speaker 1: like I've trained a few and they're pretty great. And

1579
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 1: also Canada's nice and they're health cares for you, Like

1580
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 1: why are you so mad about it? You know so

1581
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 1: similarly to you, like I just try to poke fun

1582
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:09,320
Speaker 1: at the ridiculousness of it all. And and I think

1583
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 1: you're right. I think when you have any kind of

1584
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 1: public platform and you say something, whether it's me talking

1585
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 1: about how this system doesn't have anything for me, or

1586
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:22,960
Speaker 1: or you highlighting that you are you are an American

1587
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:26,760
Speaker 1: and a journalist and a playwright and an author and

1588
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,720
Speaker 1: a storyteller, and a father and a son, and you

1589
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:32,640
Speaker 1: are so many things that to be pigeonholed by just

1590
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:36,559
Speaker 1: an aspect of what makes you you feels weird. I

1591
01:27:37,479 --> 01:27:41,760
Speaker 1: I try so hard as well to take up more

1592
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 1: of an expanded space, to not let someone put me

1593
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:47,240
Speaker 1: in in a box because it makes me feel smaller

1594
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 1: than I am. And and the whole point of you know,

1595
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 1: the dream we pursue here is to be big, you know,

1596
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:57,679
Speaker 1: to to grow, to expand, to experience. And I wonder

1597
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 1: for you. You know, we've talked so much about rear

1598
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:04,000
Speaker 1: and writing in these things, you are also so open

1599
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:08,639
Speaker 1: about your family. You know, your your lovely wife, your

1600
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:13,639
Speaker 1: being a dad, um you you even gave a Ted

1601
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 1: talk called the Case for having kids, and and you

1602
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:21,960
Speaker 1: talk about yes it's complicated, and yes kids are expensive

1603
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:26,320
Speaker 1: and all of these things, but but that we owe

1604
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 1: it to ourselves in terms of progress, to invest in

1605
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:31,840
Speaker 1: our kids and also to invest in in the people

1606
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 1: who want to be parents. Now it's the parents who

1607
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:39,320
Speaker 1: were the adults of the future. I I wonder if

1608
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 1: we can talk a little bit about that, because obviously

1609
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:44,680
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with your journalism brain and that's how we

1610
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:49,599
Speaker 1: became friends. But I I am also invested in your

1611
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:52,919
Speaker 1: life as a dad. I feel really invested in your family,

1612
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 1: and and for anyone who's listening, to this. I do

1613
01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:59,800
Speaker 1: want to expand the ways they're getting to know you

1614
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: into a more full picture of of who you are.

1615
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:07,919
Speaker 1: And so I wonder if you can talk about deciding

1616
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:09,680
Speaker 1: to start a family, if you can talk about what

1617
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,400
Speaker 1: motivated you to give that Ted, talk like open that,

1618
01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 1: open that part of the box for us. I thought

1619
01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 1: I would be I'm thirty nine, I'm gonna turn forty,

1620
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:23,759
Speaker 1: hopefully in a couple of months. I'm a scorpio. Um.

1621
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:26,640
Speaker 1: I thought in my late eighties I wouldn't make it

1622
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:28,640
Speaker 1: till I was thirty five. Now that sounds like the

1623
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:31,679
Speaker 1: melodrama of most men and women in their late twenties,

1624
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 1: because we all think, like, you know, oh thirty it's over.

1625
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:36,599
Speaker 1: I'm gonna die, the earth will swallow me a poll,

1626
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 1: I have to do everything. But you know, just my

1627
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:42,040
Speaker 1: life at that time and the struggles my health. I

1628
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:44,719
Speaker 1: never saw myself. I just didn't see a timeline beyond

1629
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:49,759
Speaker 1: thirty five. And I'm South Asian and in our culture,

1630
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 1: just like in society, oftentimes, the test for men is

1631
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:59,719
Speaker 1: material and the steotypical test for women is maternal. So Sophia,

1632
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:03,200
Speaker 1: it could be a badass actress, uh and a host

1633
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:08,240
Speaker 1: and an activist and just have a wonderful, fulfilling life. Right,

1634
01:30:09,200 --> 01:30:14,080
Speaker 1: she's single and she doesn't have kids, port Sophia, right,

1635
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 1: And so I just struggled and struggled. There was just

1636
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:19,680
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that happened in our twenties with

1637
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:21,559
Speaker 1: my family and I just you know, we were always struggling.

1638
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 1: And so I was thirty one and I was completely broke.

1639
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 1: But everyone thought I was baller because I had done

1640
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 1: fear Ink and then the plane. They had seen me

1641
01:30:32,400 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 1: on the media and they're like, well, John, when he

1642
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:36,760
Speaker 1: talks about being broke, he's just exaggerating. But like I

1643
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 1: was almost homeless, Like that was my life. I was

1644
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:41,800
Speaker 1: like had a foot in like literally poverty where I

1645
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 1: was and at a foot and like success and I

1646
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 1: had a smile about it. I'm like, I feel like

1647
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:47,439
Speaker 1: I'm in a Twilight Zone episode. I don't know if

1648
01:30:47,479 --> 01:30:49,519
Speaker 1: this is a comedy or a horror movie. And the

1649
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 1: reason I'm mentioning this is, you know, you don't want

1650
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:55,639
Speaker 1: to be a scrub when you go out and talk

1651
01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:57,679
Speaker 1: to girls, and so that the women who were interested

1652
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 1: in me, we're like these brilliant and beautiful ball or

1653
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:05,720
Speaker 1: women who were like like just very proactive and their

1654
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:08,800
Speaker 1: interest in me, and I just used to just kind

1655
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:12,400
Speaker 1: of like sea block myself all the time. And I

1656
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:14,160
Speaker 1: think that sea block was not because I hated myself,

1657
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:17,439
Speaker 1: because I'm just like, if she really knew what she

1658
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:19,920
Speaker 1: was getting into, she would not come into this mess.

1659
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:24,040
Speaker 1: And I remember I had a near death experience. It

1660
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:29,360
Speaker 1: was like November, right after Thanksgiving, about eight years ago.

1661
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:35,800
Speaker 1: I had a condition inherited from my paternal side, super

1662
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 1: ventricual super ventricular tachycardia, where like growing up my heart,

1663
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:43,080
Speaker 1: it was like randomly it would be like a double

1664
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:46,639
Speaker 1: of beat and then sometimes I would just pass out.

1665
01:31:47,200 --> 01:31:49,400
Speaker 1: And so I kind of was used to this even

1666
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:52,760
Speaker 1: though it's totally not normal. It started increasing in my twenties,

1667
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:55,120
Speaker 1: and I think it was probably because of stress. Now

1668
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 1: that's the thing with stresses. Even though I mentally and

1669
01:31:57,439 --> 01:32:00,920
Speaker 1: spiritual and emotionally strong, you're bodies still takes on the

1670
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:04,519
Speaker 1: consequences and the effects of stress, right, yeah, yeah, you

1671
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:07,760
Speaker 1: know this eighteen shoots. So you're like, I'm fine, Oh,

1672
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:09,960
Speaker 1: I have rashes everywhere. I wonder why, and your doctors

1673
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 1: like stress. So I went to the gym to do

1674
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:15,920
Speaker 1: a limb exercise ellipticals for twenty minutes just to get

1675
01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:19,240
Speaker 1: a sweat. I get on the elliptical, started started, and

1676
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 1: my heart rate jumps up, and I'm like, I'm gonna

1677
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:25,799
Speaker 1: pass out. Oh crap. Usually I'm able to lie down, breathe,

1678
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 1: get myself normal. This time I didn't have time. I

1679
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 1: sit down on any chair I could find. It was

1680
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 1: the bicycle seat. So the bicycle seed is hilarious because

1681
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 1: you put down, you sit on the seat, and you

1682
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 1: put your feet on the straps, and the straps started moving.

1683
01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:39,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh shit. And then literally there's a guy

1684
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:41,320
Speaker 1: next to me. He goes, you don't look good. I

1685
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:45,160
Speaker 1: pass out. I wake up. My back is on the floor,

1686
01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 1: my legs are spread apart. People are surrounded by me,

1687
01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:51,680
Speaker 1: looking terrified. My heart rates still going into two. I

1688
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:55,439
Speaker 1: could feel it. Usually when you pass out, your heart

1689
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,080
Speaker 1: rate resets, but this time I didn't reset. They bring

1690
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 1: in the emergency, They bring the ambulance. My heart rates

1691
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:05,160
Speaker 1: still hasn't said. They take me to the Washington Hospital,

1692
01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:09,000
Speaker 1: which thank god, was right across the street. And now

1693
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,599
Speaker 1: my they give me all the drugs. Heart it still

1694
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:16,439
Speaker 1: hasn't said. The cardiovert me three times. Cardio version is

1695
01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:19,720
Speaker 1: like three to one clear. And I was supposed to

1696
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 1: be work right now, like I was supposed to be asleep.

1697
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:25,479
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be asleep. But each time they

1698
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 1: were about to stay clear. Because I'm so stubborn, I'm like, hey, guys,

1699
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:32,360
Speaker 1: what's happening. Clear boom, So I remember, I still feel

1700
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:36,120
Speaker 1: what it's like to get that cardio version. Uh still

1701
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:40,120
Speaker 1: didn't clear. And so now I'm sitting there sweating in

1702
01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:44,680
Speaker 1: my white like Hayne shirt with my gym shorts, my

1703
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 1: nasty at sneakers, and the room is filled with nurses

1704
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:51,639
Speaker 1: and doctors who look terrified, which is not a good

1705
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:54,360
Speaker 1: situation when you're in the gurney and doctors look terrified,

1706
01:33:55,040 --> 01:34:00,479
Speaker 1: and I have pulmonary edema. I'm started choking now, like

1707
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:03,920
Speaker 1: because my fluids coming out, and real quick, let me

1708
01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:06,280
Speaker 1: just put it this way. Anyone's gone through a near

1709
01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:09,760
Speaker 1: death experience, your body just tells you, like you know,

1710
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:13,840
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna go. And so I have this

1711
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:18,920
Speaker 1: conversation with the universe, this conversation with God where I

1712
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:23,200
Speaker 1: have an audit of my life and it's getting worse

1713
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:25,040
Speaker 1: and I kind of feel like my time's up, and

1714
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:28,599
Speaker 1: I knew my time was up, and um I made

1715
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 1: peace with my exit. I said I had a good life,

1716
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:34,519
Speaker 1: but I only had one regret, which was interesting because

1717
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 1: I never thought about this that until that moment. My

1718
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:41,479
Speaker 1: run regret was shit, I'm gonna die alone, not necessarily

1719
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:44,000
Speaker 1: alone that didn't have loved ones, but I'm gonna die

1720
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 1: without a partner. I didn't invest in a partner in

1721
01:34:46,479 --> 01:34:48,720
Speaker 1: a family. I should invest in a family. That's my

1722
01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:51,559
Speaker 1: one regret. And right as as soon as I had this,

1723
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:57,040
Speaker 1: this this epiphany, my heart rate stabilized. I swear to God,

1724
01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:58,599
Speaker 1: I'm not making this not a Hollywood story. My heart

1725
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 1: rate stabilized. And then the doctor the next day, and

1726
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:04,439
Speaker 1: I have to do his accent because he's like Eastern European.

1727
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:06,599
Speaker 1: He comes and sees me to have to keep me overnight.

1728
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:08,800
Speaker 1: He's the ear a doctor who literally went up and

1729
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:10,840
Speaker 1: like found me. He goes, hey, man, I had to

1730
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:15,120
Speaker 1: come see you because yesterday, holy shit, you scared the

1731
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:17,120
Speaker 1: ship out of us. And I'm like, I don't think

1732
01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 1: a doctor is supposed to say that. He goes, I'm

1733
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 1: so good, You're doing fine. But the reason why I

1734
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:23,560
Speaker 1: did this huge setup to this very simple question of

1735
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:27,280
Speaker 1: you said family and marriages. That's what compelled me to

1736
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:31,120
Speaker 1: get out in the dating scene again. And like eight

1737
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:34,320
Speaker 1: months later I ended up being married. I ended up

1738
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:38,320
Speaker 1: eloping with my wife, who was my friend, a friend

1739
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 1: who I sort of guy was platonic, but a lot

1740
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:41,559
Speaker 1: of people over the year said, you guys should talk

1741
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:44,360
Speaker 1: And I literally called her. I was in California, she's

1742
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:47,080
Speaker 1: in d C. And like a nerd, like straight up

1743
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:49,679
Speaker 1: pride and prejudice. I called her. I was like, hey,

1744
01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:51,880
Speaker 1: can I talk to you with the intention of maybe

1745
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 1: making this romantic? And she goes okay, and we talked

1746
01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:57,840
Speaker 1: for three hours the first night, we talked for three hours,

1747
01:35:57,880 --> 01:35:59,800
Speaker 1: the second night, we talked for three hours. The third night,

1748
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:02,720
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the fourth conversation, in a very

1749
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:06,640
Speaker 1: romantic way, I said, yeah, so I love you, and uh,

1750
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:08,280
Speaker 1: you're the one, So you want to get married or what?

1751
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 1: And she and she she she was. Her scarlet letter

1752
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:18,559
Speaker 1: was that she was divorced twice. My scarlet letter was poverty.

1753
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:22,280
Speaker 1: I would even see in South Asian culture. I just

1754
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:25,479
Speaker 1: think for men and women in general, because the stigma

1755
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:29,200
Speaker 1: is real for women. Why did she get divorced twice?

1756
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:32,960
Speaker 1: In her twenties and a month later we got it loped.

1757
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 1: We married and then we told people I moved to

1758
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:42,519
Speaker 1: d C. And you know, my life changed after marriage.

1759
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 1: Everything got better and we had a kid, and then

1760
01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:52,400
Speaker 1: we had a second kid. And the second kid, you

1761
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:54,400
Speaker 1: know you mentioned the ted talk that the case for

1762
01:36:54,479 --> 01:37:00,200
Speaker 1: having children. I went to Vancouver last year a brow

1763
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:04,519
Speaker 1: for this tip talk. Uh. We found out my wife

1764
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:07,040
Speaker 1: was pregnant with our third kid. So that was we

1765
01:37:07,040 --> 01:37:10,479
Speaker 1: found out a monthly earlier in March. I'm in Vancouver.

1766
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:14,080
Speaker 1: The second day, my wife calls me. She's crying and

1767
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:17,679
Speaker 1: she goes and she's never cried. She's very emotionally spiritual.

1768
01:37:17,720 --> 01:37:20,400
Speaker 1: Struct she's a doctor. She like she's gone through the

1769
01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:22,960
Speaker 1: ship and she's the one consoling people. I'm like, what's

1770
01:37:22,960 --> 01:37:25,400
Speaker 1: wrong and she goes. I took no Saba, our daughter

1771
01:37:25,439 --> 01:37:27,400
Speaker 1: who was two at the time, to the doctors, and

1772
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:29,519
Speaker 1: they found bumps over her stomach, like she did she

1773
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:31,840
Speaker 1: eat something. And she goes, I think it's bad. When

1774
01:37:31,880 --> 01:37:33,800
Speaker 1: they find bumps over the stomach gets cancer. I'm like,

1775
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:36,679
Speaker 1: can's what the I just left her two days ago,

1776
01:37:37,080 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 1: like her stomach was flat, and he goes, No, I

1777
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:43,920
Speaker 1: think it's cancer. And remember I just bawled up my

1778
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:46,320
Speaker 1: fist and I punched a pillow and I said no.

1779
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:50,840
Speaker 1: And right then and there, any parent will recognize this,

1780
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 1: this prayer that I did, I did the barber prayer.

1781
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,679
Speaker 1: I call it the Barber prayer. And immediately I said,

1782
01:37:55,720 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 1: all right, God, my life for her is easy trade.

1783
01:37:58,439 --> 01:38:01,080
Speaker 1: Thirty eight year old man, two year old girl, Let's

1784
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:04,000
Speaker 1: do this because you want to absorb all the pain

1785
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 1: of your child. That's just how it is. Like when

1786
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 1: you have a kid, just everything changes, it has to change.

1787
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:12,320
Speaker 1: You're not responsible for a life. And so when people say, like,

1788
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:13,960
Speaker 1: what is that mean, like your life changes, how is

1789
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:16,840
Speaker 1: it possible to love another person? And to continue with

1790
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:19,120
Speaker 1: this theme of expansion, that's what happens. Sofia, you have

1791
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:21,599
Speaker 1: a kid. I held Ibraheim, my son, for the first time.

1792
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:25,880
Speaker 1: My heart expanded, like my universe expanded. And I'm like,

1793
01:38:25,960 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 1: I I didn't know I had the capacity to love

1794
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 1: more because I love my wife, and I have the

1795
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:34,400
Speaker 1: capacity to love more to this child than I had Useba.

1796
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:41,519
Speaker 1: And so my whole speech, the case for having children people,

1797
01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:43,920
Speaker 1: it's a trojan horse speech. If you go and see it,

1798
01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:48,280
Speaker 1: the speech is actually talking about how we are having

1799
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:54,400
Speaker 1: a crisis in certain countries of not having enough kids

1800
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:58,400
Speaker 1: in the United States, in Europe, in Japan, and like

1801
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:02,639
Speaker 1: how not having enough kids is wrecking us economically and

1802
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:05,759
Speaker 1: how people like China and Japan are struggling now literally

1803
01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:10,160
Speaker 1: begging young people to have kids. Right, And the whole

1804
01:39:10,160 --> 01:39:13,840
Speaker 1: trojan horse was to examine why this is happening, the

1805
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:16,439
Speaker 1: effects on society, and my trojan horse comes at the

1806
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:20,440
Speaker 1: end where I said, you need to have progressive pronatal

1807
01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:27,759
Speaker 1: policies in helping especially women with healthcare, with equality, because

1808
01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:30,360
Speaker 1: people want to have kids, but they can't afford it.

1809
01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:33,040
Speaker 1: People in America want to have kids, but they don't

1810
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:35,720
Speaker 1: have healthcare. And what they've seen in Europe is when

1811
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:39,599
Speaker 1: you give people progressive policies where there's paid for rental leaf,

1812
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:43,840
Speaker 1: affordable childcare, affordable healthcare, when women are literate and giving

1813
01:39:44,120 --> 01:39:48,920
Speaker 1: economic opportunities, the entire boat rises, society rises, and all

1814
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:51,080
Speaker 1: you people are freaking outbout not having kids. Guess what,

1815
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 1: women will have kids because they can afford to have

1816
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:55,479
Speaker 1: kids and they won't die while having children. That's the

1817
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:58,960
Speaker 1: whole trojan horse. So here I was well, here I

1818
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:03,200
Speaker 1: was hit at this news and my daughter having cancer.

1819
01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:05,599
Speaker 1: Now I have to go on the TED main stage.

1820
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:08,559
Speaker 1: And for like two days, my my heads is circling

1821
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 1: around and I'm told my wife should I come back?

1822
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:12,600
Speaker 1: So I'll come back. What's happening? She goes, waitful for

1823
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:15,000
Speaker 1: what the doctors say. Wednesday morning, I think it was

1824
01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:17,639
Speaker 1: Wednesday morning. I have to go up on the TED stage.

1825
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:20,880
Speaker 1: Uh in the morning it gets confirmed she has stage

1826
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:26,080
Speaker 1: for liver cancer. So I I'm like, should I even

1827
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:28,080
Speaker 1: give this freaking speech? How can I give a speech

1828
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:31,080
Speaker 1: about the case for having kids where my two year

1829
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:34,799
Speaker 1: old daughter might not make it? And and I felt

1830
01:40:34,840 --> 01:40:39,240
Speaker 1: like I would only honor the truth of my story

1831
01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:42,720
Speaker 1: and Nouseba and the argument if I mentioned her. So

1832
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:45,240
Speaker 1: I go on stage, I do the speech, and at

1833
01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:47,679
Speaker 1: the end, I say, by the way, as I'm giving

1834
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:50,240
Speaker 1: this speech telling you to have the case for having children,

1835
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:53,719
Speaker 1: I just found out my daughter Musseba has stage four cancer.

1836
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:57,759
Speaker 1: And you heard a collective gasp, like literally the audience

1837
01:40:57,800 --> 01:41:01,680
Speaker 1: just like ah. And and then I just spoke from

1838
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:04,720
Speaker 1: the heart and I said, despite this, my wife and

1839
01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:07,320
Speaker 1: I have said that the best thing we've ever done

1840
01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:09,160
Speaker 1: was have these kids in the investing these kids and

1841
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:14,680
Speaker 1: kids represent like we said, that new generation represents the

1842
01:41:14,760 --> 01:41:18,280
Speaker 1: best of humanity. It represents potential, and it's our job

1843
01:41:18,360 --> 01:41:20,240
Speaker 1: to clean up the crap and to give him the

1844
01:41:20,240 --> 01:41:23,840
Speaker 1: best opportunity possible. So we will fight for Neuseba. And

1845
01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:25,360
Speaker 1: I think you all offer your prayers, and I just

1846
01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:26,920
Speaker 1: I don't even remember what I said. I left the

1847
01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:31,559
Speaker 1: stage and we I went back home, and they said

1848
01:41:31,640 --> 01:41:36,040
Speaker 1: last April that her, this poor girl went through so much.

1849
01:41:36,840 --> 01:41:39,559
Speaker 1: Her tumor broke off, there was bleeding in her stomach,

1850
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:42,880
Speaker 1: the chemo got delayed. We didn't think she'd survive May

1851
01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:45,640
Speaker 1: within three weeks, she looked like a pow kid like

1852
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:51,080
Speaker 1: bones and she needed a liver transplant. And long story short,

1853
01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:52,759
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go off on this ten minute

1854
01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:55,960
Speaker 1: TED talk, but she had an anonymous liver doing her

1855
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:59,559
Speaker 1: step up. It took a community to help her. Over

1856
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:02,920
Speaker 1: five hundred people, mostly strangers, stepped up to be her liver.

1857
01:42:03,000 --> 01:42:07,320
Speaker 1: Downer did that happen because this had gone so public

1858
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:10,280
Speaker 1: and people knew there you go. The power of stories,

1859
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 1: the power of stories, and the power of kindness. My mother,

1860
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, everything is connected, even this podcast is connected.

1861
01:42:17,240 --> 01:42:20,120
Speaker 1: The stories we've talked about My mother said, in hindsight,

1862
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:22,320
Speaker 1: if you had become a doctor, I don't know if

1863
01:42:22,439 --> 01:42:25,800
Speaker 1: usable would have lived. It's because you're a storyteller with

1864
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:29,120
Speaker 1: the platform that you had. Because I decided to share

1865
01:42:29,200 --> 01:42:33,120
Speaker 1: nous aber story and my wife, as at first, was hesitant,

1866
01:42:33,200 --> 01:42:35,040
Speaker 1: but I said, I'm a storyteller. I think I'm onto

1867
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:37,959
Speaker 1: something people at the very list people will have, at

1868
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:40,880
Speaker 1: the very least, people have awareness about the need for

1869
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:43,920
Speaker 1: liver donors. I had no idea that the liver grows back.

1870
01:42:43,960 --> 01:42:45,840
Speaker 1: Did you know that? I had no idea. You probably did,

1871
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:51,559
Speaker 1: because you can regenerate, and so I'm like, yo, give

1872
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:54,280
Speaker 1: your liver. The liver generates. You can like save someone's life.

1873
01:42:54,479 --> 01:42:56,360
Speaker 1: Here's my two year old daughter who just turned three.

1874
01:42:56,640 --> 01:42:59,320
Speaker 1: She's literally fighting for her life. If anyone can step

1875
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:03,720
Speaker 1: up with obla type, we need a liver um I

1876
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:06,080
Speaker 1: used on my platform. Sorry you want to say something, well,

1877
01:43:06,120 --> 01:43:08,240
Speaker 1: I was going to ask, can you tell the folks

1878
01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:10,519
Speaker 1: at home who are like, what, what in the hell

1879
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:13,120
Speaker 1: do you mean? A liver can grow back? How much

1880
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:16,000
Speaker 1: of a liver When someone becomes a donor, do they

1881
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:22,280
Speaker 1: actually take from the donor which then over time regenerates

1882
01:43:22,280 --> 01:43:26,880
Speaker 1: and they take a small sliver of an adult liver's donor,

1883
01:43:27,200 --> 01:43:33,439
Speaker 1: which then becomes the corresponds to the liver of the child. Uh.

1884
01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:35,559
Speaker 1: And then if you are the liver donor, you get

1885
01:43:35,560 --> 01:43:38,839
Speaker 1: a Mercedes scar it looks like a Mercedes Bend symbol.

1886
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:41,960
Speaker 1: The liver will grow back. Within two to three months,

1887
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:45,800
Speaker 1: you'll have your liver again. Full size. Yeah, full size

1888
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:48,400
Speaker 1: liver again. This small sliver of the liver that you've

1889
01:43:48,400 --> 01:43:50,840
Speaker 1: given to the kid will now become his or her

1890
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:53,680
Speaker 1: liver that will grow inside him or her into a

1891
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:57,000
Speaker 1: full liver as she grows. He grew incredible. So I

1892
01:43:57,080 --> 01:44:00,519
Speaker 1: did this story add the CNN platform. I had social media,

1893
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:04,040
Speaker 1: I had Twitter at Facebook, and there was this outpouring

1894
01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:07,559
Speaker 1: of support and you know, speaking about these troubled times

1895
01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:10,519
Speaker 1: and how everything is so jaded and things are so painful.

1896
01:44:10,560 --> 01:44:14,280
Speaker 1: If you give people the opportunity to be kind and selfless,

1897
01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:18,439
Speaker 1: I've seen through my example people relis that opportunity. Over

1898
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:21,759
Speaker 1: five people, mostly strangers, signed up to be your donor,

1899
01:44:21,880 --> 01:44:24,120
Speaker 1: including people who literally told me I hate you and

1900
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:26,960
Speaker 1: your politics, I hate everything you tweet, but I'm praying

1901
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:31,760
Speaker 1: for your daughter. And we've got the liver donor. We

1902
01:44:31,840 --> 01:44:36,400
Speaker 1: did the post liver transplant chemos in January. As of January,

1903
01:44:36,439 --> 01:44:39,280
Speaker 1: she is cancer free. And as soon as she was

1904
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:42,679
Speaker 1: cancer free, my wife and I joked, wow, like we've

1905
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:45,360
Speaker 1: gone through the thick of it. What what will we

1906
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:46,600
Speaker 1: do for the rest of our lives? We have to

1907
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:49,200
Speaker 1: plan like normalcy again. And as soon as we said

1908
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:54,040
Speaker 1: that coronavirus. But I always joke that we are doing

1909
01:44:54,080 --> 01:44:56,920
Speaker 1: so much better than most and and taking into kind

1910
01:44:56,920 --> 01:44:58,400
Speaker 1: of people are suffering. I don't want it to say

1911
01:44:58,400 --> 01:45:00,880
Speaker 1: this light in a lighthearted fashion, but everything that you

1912
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:03,760
Speaker 1: guys are doing we did for the past year, sanitizing,

1913
01:45:04,439 --> 01:45:08,919
Speaker 1: going you know, being aware of social distancing, and compared

1914
01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:11,720
Speaker 1: to what happened last year, this is like a walk

1915
01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:15,599
Speaker 1: in the park. Wow, I am curious. You know when

1916
01:45:15,680 --> 01:45:19,000
Speaker 1: when you talk about that, the sanitizing, the distancing, the

1917
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:21,439
Speaker 1: things you have to do for a new SABA, that

1918
01:45:21,560 --> 01:45:25,960
Speaker 1: was you guys taking precautions because of her incredibly fragile

1919
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:32,320
Speaker 1: immune system from the cancer of the chemo is is

1920
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:40,040
Speaker 1: she still considered immuno compromised, so she's on the border.

1921
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 1: I would say yes, because even though her levels are good,

1922
01:45:43,600 --> 01:45:46,680
Speaker 1: we're still playing this it's it's medicine. It's like you

1923
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:48,960
Speaker 1: your your kid becomes like a guinea pig. You have

1924
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:51,479
Speaker 1: to experiment. Oh she had a reaction to that. Let's

1925
01:45:51,479 --> 01:45:53,880
Speaker 1: try this, Oh this medicine, let's try that. Or our

1926
01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:56,720
Speaker 1: level is good, they're not. I mean she's out of

1927
01:45:56,760 --> 01:46:01,600
Speaker 1: the woods, but not completely out of the forest, right, um,

1928
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:04,880
Speaker 1: because we still do the meds every day. She needs

1929
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:08,240
Speaker 1: those life saving meds. We still have to do the monthly. Now,

1930
01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:11,320
Speaker 1: these are the winds of cancer disrupts all normalcy, and

1931
01:46:11,439 --> 01:46:15,000
Speaker 1: winds are measured every day by a new metric of normal.

1932
01:46:15,160 --> 01:46:17,519
Speaker 1: So if she doesn't vomit, win. If you don't go

1933
01:46:17,560 --> 01:46:20,519
Speaker 1: to the hospital, win, If the tests go from weekly

1934
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:25,440
Speaker 1: to bi weekly, win. So now the tests are every month. Win. Um.

1935
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,400
Speaker 1: But because she's all, you compromise, and because she literally

1936
01:46:28,439 --> 01:46:31,599
Speaker 1: this poor girl. Man, she's such a warrior. She's such

1937
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:36,360
Speaker 1: a warrior that both Children's Hospital in Georgia Hospital, all

1938
01:46:36,360 --> 01:46:39,320
Speaker 1: the staff still knows her. And you know, you always say, oh,

1939
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:42,640
Speaker 1: it's my kid, I'm partial. Yet they're special. They're like, no, no, no,

1940
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:47,240
Speaker 1: this girl is special because as she took the assault

1941
01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:50,720
Speaker 1: of chemo and cancer that takes down men and she

1942
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:53,600
Speaker 1: never complained. She's just like a tough chick. I just

1943
01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:55,519
Speaker 1: got lucky with that way, which she just it's her,

1944
01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:58,120
Speaker 1: it's who she is. We named her after a warrior princess.

1945
01:46:58,120 --> 01:47:01,120
Speaker 1: She lives up to the name. But the reason why

1946
01:47:01,160 --> 01:47:05,080
Speaker 1: we got so piste off when people weren't asking. It's like, Yo,

1947
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:07,760
Speaker 1: I've been in lockdown. My wife and I've been under

1948
01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:12,080
Speaker 1: lockdown since late February, and if people just did their job,

1949
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:15,600
Speaker 1: we would have opened up in America. And when I

1950
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:18,120
Speaker 1: see people not giving a ship, I'm like, don't give

1951
01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:20,439
Speaker 1: a ship for me. But you got this three year

1952
01:47:20,439 --> 01:47:24,240
Speaker 1: old girl who just turned four last week, um, who

1953
01:47:24,320 --> 01:47:29,280
Speaker 1: literally struggled to survive. She fought to live. So for

1954
01:47:29,320 --> 01:47:34,000
Speaker 1: the immuno compromised, for elders, just to wear a mask,

1955
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:38,479
Speaker 1: just social, just try because you might be healthy. And

1956
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:40,720
Speaker 1: by the way, that's questionable if you might be healthy,

1957
01:47:40,720 --> 01:47:43,400
Speaker 1: because we're seeing young people getting left up. We all

1958
01:47:43,400 --> 01:47:47,040
Speaker 1: now have a one degree of separation story. I think, Um,

1959
01:47:47,080 --> 01:47:50,400
Speaker 1: but these these people ammuna compromised, yo, Like, if they

1960
01:47:50,439 --> 01:47:53,439
Speaker 1: get it, especially with the hospitals at capacity right now

1961
01:47:53,439 --> 01:47:58,599
Speaker 1: in Houston, UM, they might not survive. A little girl

1962
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:00,880
Speaker 1: might not survive. Your parents might survived. I haven't seen

1963
01:48:00,920 --> 01:48:02,759
Speaker 1: my parents. I don't know if you've seen your parents.

1964
01:48:02,760 --> 01:48:05,040
Speaker 1: But my mom was supposed to come the week of

1965
01:48:05,160 --> 01:48:08,640
Speaker 1: national lockdown to see her grandkid, uh Kadija, who is

1966
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:11,040
Speaker 1: now eight months old. I don't know if I'm going

1967
01:48:11,120 --> 01:48:14,640
Speaker 1: to see my parents again. So that's what frustrates me

1968
01:48:14,680 --> 01:48:18,960
Speaker 1: and angers me and my wife sometimes. But I don't

1969
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:20,559
Speaker 1: know if America is ever going to get into control,

1970
01:48:20,600 --> 01:48:24,120
Speaker 1: so f you, I don't think so. Yeah, it's weird

1971
01:48:24,200 --> 01:48:29,679
Speaker 1: to me that we're politicizing a global pandemic. We're making

1972
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:34,840
Speaker 1: it about really petty partisanship in our country when it's

1973
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:38,320
Speaker 1: affecting the entire world. And we've seen countries around the

1974
01:48:38,320 --> 01:48:40,599
Speaker 1: world who stepped up for each other and who just

1975
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 1: said full lockdown six weeks, everyone in a mask and

1976
01:48:44,240 --> 01:48:47,160
Speaker 1: they're going back to normal, and we're not because we

1977
01:48:47,160 --> 01:48:51,680
Speaker 1: we have refused to look out for each other. And

1978
01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:55,479
Speaker 1: it's it's odd to me, and and and I think

1979
01:48:55,479 --> 01:48:57,599
Speaker 1: you have such an amazing perspective on it, because you've

1980
01:48:57,680 --> 01:49:00,120
Speaker 1: seen the way people have the capacity to look at

1981
01:49:00,120 --> 01:49:04,720
Speaker 1: for each other when the stories are not weaponized against them.

1982
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:08,640
Speaker 1: You know, when we have the White House releasing opposition

1983
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:11,360
Speaker 1: or attempting to on Dr Fauci, who's one of the

1984
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:15,559
Speaker 1: most storied, you know, health experts in the country, who

1985
01:49:15,560 --> 01:49:20,000
Speaker 1: has worked for Democrats and Republicans both forever. Um, when

1986
01:49:20,080 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 1: when you see people saying that wearing a mask is

1987
01:49:22,520 --> 01:49:24,800
Speaker 1: an assault on liberty and I laugh, I'm like, did

1988
01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:26,400
Speaker 1: you ever say that about a sign that said no

1989
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:29,760
Speaker 1: short no shoes, no service. I didn't think. So calm down,

1990
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:35,200
Speaker 1: you just calm down, You just calm down. Yeah, I

1991
01:49:35,240 --> 01:49:39,800
Speaker 1: have a cook and attack up. Um. I I think

1992
01:49:40,040 --> 01:49:43,080
Speaker 1: your perspective on how we can really show up for

1993
01:49:43,080 --> 01:49:46,479
Speaker 1: each other. And as you said, this this willingness that

1994
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:50,479
Speaker 1: people even who vocally disagree with you had to quite

1995
01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:52,920
Speaker 1: literally cut their bodies open and try to help save

1996
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:56,680
Speaker 1: your daughter's life. That's It's like, I want us to

1997
01:49:56,720 --> 01:50:00,639
Speaker 1: be those Americans you know. And I and think about

1998
01:50:00,680 --> 01:50:04,680
Speaker 1: the gentleman who wound up being her donor. Do you

1999
01:50:05,960 --> 01:50:08,120
Speaker 1: do you guys have a relationship with him? Now? Do

2000
01:50:08,120 --> 01:50:11,000
Speaker 1: you know him didn't remain anonymous? How how does that

2001
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:14,320
Speaker 1: whole thing work? So he was an anonymous donor and

2002
01:50:14,360 --> 01:50:19,280
Speaker 1: I found out about him right after I took Nousba

2003
01:50:19,320 --> 01:50:22,599
Speaker 1: to the surgery table. Uh. They say, you know, one

2004
01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:24,320
Speaker 1: of the parents has dressed up in a gown and

2005
01:50:24,360 --> 01:50:27,479
Speaker 1: can take her uh to the operating table. My wife said,

2006
01:50:27,479 --> 01:50:30,160
Speaker 1: you do it. So I did that, and I kissed

2007
01:50:30,160 --> 01:50:31,679
Speaker 1: her on the forehead, and she woke up right before

2008
01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:33,559
Speaker 1: I put her down, and I said, you know your

2009
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 1: your mom and Baba love you very much. Be brave.

2010
01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:38,160
Speaker 1: You're a brave girl. And I'll see you once you

2011
01:50:38,160 --> 01:50:39,479
Speaker 1: wake up. And then you don't know if she's gonna

2012
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:41,240
Speaker 1: wake up, So I kiss her. Let me go sit

2013
01:50:41,320 --> 01:50:43,080
Speaker 1: in the waiting room and I get this d M

2014
01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:49,479
Speaker 1: from acquaintance and he goes, Yo, my friend Sean just

2015
01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:52,600
Speaker 1: message us, asked us to pray for him and that

2016
01:50:52,680 --> 01:50:55,080
Speaker 1: everything will go well. He's in surgery. I think he's

2017
01:50:55,080 --> 01:50:58,360
Speaker 1: your daughter's liver donor. And then he goes, oh, shot,

2018
01:50:58,360 --> 01:51:00,599
Speaker 1: I don't think I was supposed to tell you, uh,

2019
01:51:00,680 --> 01:51:03,479
Speaker 1: And then you know, because he was anonymous, and I'm like, well,

2020
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:06,840
Speaker 1: I'll keep it on the deal. But like I'm assumed

2021
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:10,280
Speaker 1: his family must be here. And if his family is here,

2022
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:12,720
Speaker 1: why don't you give them my number? And if they

2023
01:51:12,720 --> 01:51:15,000
Speaker 1: want to reach out, they'll reach out. So his wife

2024
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:18,320
Speaker 1: then texts me and we we we talk and I

2025
01:51:18,360 --> 01:51:21,479
Speaker 1: had no idea, but they keep the donor's family and

2026
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:26,320
Speaker 1: the patient's family separate as much as possible because I think,

2027
01:51:26,360 --> 01:51:28,280
Speaker 1: I just think for emotional reasons. So I think there

2028
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:31,120
Speaker 1: were another part of the hospital. So I kept texting

2029
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:33,439
Speaker 1: her and I said, you know, thank you so much.

2030
01:51:33,479 --> 01:51:35,080
Speaker 1: What can we do for you? And she said, no problem,

2031
01:51:35,160 --> 01:51:38,799
Speaker 1: let's meet afterwards. And I then go to the cafe

2032
01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:41,439
Speaker 1: because my wife was starving, and I bump into this

2033
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:45,600
Speaker 1: woman who looks brown and her name is Ridda. She

2034
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:48,200
Speaker 1: looks like a Ridda And I'm like, are you Ridda

2035
01:51:48,240 --> 01:51:49,640
Speaker 1: the wife of Sean? And he goes are you with

2036
01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:53,320
Speaker 1: Jot and that's where we met. And then and then

2037
01:51:53,360 --> 01:51:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm like yo, and I'm like this and you know,

2038
01:51:55,360 --> 01:51:57,680
Speaker 1: and I met her father in law and like her

2039
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:00,080
Speaker 1: father and said thank you for your son, what he's on,

2040
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:04,040
Speaker 1: what he's doing. And I remember, right before this happened,

2041
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:10,080
Speaker 1: we met Sean's doctor. The surgery had gone really well,

2042
01:52:10,120 --> 01:52:11,920
Speaker 1: like exceptional the world. The doctor said, this was like

2043
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:15,080
Speaker 1: the quickest, easiest surgery they've ever had. At this time,

2044
01:52:15,320 --> 01:52:19,200
Speaker 1: he was still anonymous, and this man who's done multiple surgeries.

2045
01:52:20,280 --> 01:52:23,120
Speaker 1: He starts crying and we're because everything okay. He goes,

2046
01:52:23,120 --> 01:52:26,080
Speaker 1: I just want to say that this anonymous donor again,

2047
01:52:26,120 --> 01:52:28,160
Speaker 1: I did not receive the direct message yet he goes,

2048
01:52:28,160 --> 01:52:31,240
Speaker 1: this anonymous donor that you're your daughter got a good

2049
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:33,599
Speaker 1: man's liver. And I'm like, wait, why do you say that?

2050
01:52:34,439 --> 01:52:38,320
Speaker 1: He goes. Most people when they wake up, they asked

2051
01:52:38,360 --> 01:52:42,080
Speaker 1: the following, am I okay, when will I be healthy again?

2052
01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:44,120
Speaker 1: When can I go back to work? You know what

2053
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:46,280
Speaker 1: this man asked me when he woke up. The first

2054
01:52:46,280 --> 01:52:48,719
Speaker 1: thing he said, I said, what when can I donate

2055
01:52:48,720 --> 01:52:51,920
Speaker 1: blood again? So then this doctor starts crying and he goes,

2056
01:52:51,960 --> 01:52:53,880
Speaker 1: you just have a good man's liver. Just know that

2057
01:52:53,920 --> 01:52:56,839
Speaker 1: your daughter has a good man's liver. And so Sean

2058
01:52:57,240 --> 01:53:00,320
Speaker 1: then woke up, and then that night we went met

2059
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:02,640
Speaker 1: him and then we took a yeah, I think it

2060
01:53:02,680 --> 01:53:04,240
Speaker 1: was the next night we went met him and I

2061
01:53:04,280 --> 01:53:06,920
Speaker 1: took a video of Nouseba waking up and he saw

2062
01:53:06,960 --> 01:53:10,479
Speaker 1: her and he starts crying, and then so we become

2063
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:14,080
Speaker 1: like really good friends. He's come over. Useba knows him.

2064
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:17,040
Speaker 1: And if anyone follows me on Twitter, my my my

2065
01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:22,479
Speaker 1: my pinned tweet is the tweet of Nouseba in her

2066
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:26,639
Speaker 1: Supergol costume and cap running to Sean, her liver donor.

2067
01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:30,240
Speaker 1: That was in January. And for anyone who's gone through cancer,

2068
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:32,840
Speaker 1: you know when someone says, oh I rang the bell,

2069
01:53:33,479 --> 01:53:35,800
Speaker 1: that means you ring the bell when your cancer free.

2070
01:53:36,280 --> 01:53:38,920
Speaker 1: So she rang the bell, and she had multiple costume changes,

2071
01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:42,120
Speaker 1: but she decided ultimately to where the Supergirl costume. And

2072
01:53:42,160 --> 01:53:45,040
Speaker 1: Sean that day happens to be a box stanny Muslim

2073
01:53:45,080 --> 01:53:47,640
Speaker 1: guy in d C. Like, look how these things add up.

2074
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:53,120
Speaker 1: He just lives like twenty minutes away, and he he says, oh,

2075
01:53:53,160 --> 01:53:56,360
Speaker 1: I didn't go to work today because my tire was flat,

2076
01:53:56,880 --> 01:54:00,719
Speaker 1: so I can actually come with my wife and see

2077
01:54:00,760 --> 01:54:04,800
Speaker 1: her ring the bell. Just how small things work out.

2078
01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:07,559
Speaker 1: So the donor happened to be there. I was their

2079
01:54:07,720 --> 01:54:10,720
Speaker 1: family friends who were there. She rings the bell and

2080
01:54:10,760 --> 01:54:15,080
Speaker 1: then she runs to Sean and gives them a high five,

2081
01:54:15,200 --> 01:54:16,680
Speaker 1: and then we thought it would be really cute and

2082
01:54:16,720 --> 01:54:19,479
Speaker 1: we just dubbed I have the tiger over it. So

2083
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:21,840
Speaker 1: you you can see that like the best video, Like

2084
01:54:21,880 --> 01:54:23,680
Speaker 1: I see it like once a day. I see it

2085
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:27,200
Speaker 1: during coronavirus. I see it during this this this racial

2086
01:54:27,240 --> 01:54:30,759
Speaker 1: anxiety of Donald Trump. I see it during the the

2087
01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:33,880
Speaker 1: you know, incoming equality because it's so easy to get

2088
01:54:33,960 --> 01:54:38,440
Speaker 1: mired in cynicism and hate. But then you see things

2089
01:54:38,480 --> 01:54:40,600
Speaker 1: like that and you're like, you know, and my wife

2090
01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:43,840
Speaker 1: and I like we we we have this conversation every

2091
01:54:43,880 --> 01:54:46,080
Speaker 1: single day. We just had it right before I had

2092
01:54:46,080 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 1: this podcast when I went to my vinee Man, She's

2093
01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 1: sitting Saber, sitting with her brother there there, giggling. She's

2094
01:54:52,520 --> 01:54:55,640
Speaker 1: looking fantastic, and I'm just like, look at this, and

2095
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:57,840
Speaker 1: my wife says, look at this, just look at this, like,

2096
01:54:57,920 --> 01:55:00,680
Speaker 1: look at this miracle baby. And so we sit there

2097
01:55:00,720 --> 01:55:03,520
Speaker 1: and say, I'll say the Arabic term I'll translate s humalo,

2098
01:55:03,560 --> 01:55:05,520
Speaker 1: which means the glory be to God, which means thanks,

2099
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:08,840
Speaker 1: thank God, um. And every day that's just a are

2100
01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:11,440
Speaker 1: a reminder that there's a goodness in the world. Never

2101
01:55:11,520 --> 01:55:16,760
Speaker 1: give up. This girl was supposed to not survive last May,

2102
01:55:17,080 --> 01:55:19,600
Speaker 1: and I just did my little pony celebration birthday for

2103
01:55:19,640 --> 01:55:22,920
Speaker 1: her last week, for her fourth birthday. So thank you

2104
01:55:22,960 --> 01:55:27,080
Speaker 1: for coming to my fourth TED talk. It's called the

2105
01:55:27,120 --> 01:55:29,080
Speaker 1: fourth one is the one that made me cry. Thanks

2106
01:55:29,120 --> 01:55:31,080
Speaker 1: for not calling me out there because you can see me.

2107
01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:34,360
Speaker 1: The listener wouldn't have known. But I'm just I call

2108
01:55:34,400 --> 01:55:39,240
Speaker 1: you eyes and you just were like, all right, cool, cool,

2109
01:55:39,240 --> 01:55:42,560
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, so he's like, keep it, keep

2110
01:55:42,560 --> 01:55:48,040
Speaker 1: it together. You know, there's something so cool that you

2111
01:55:48,120 --> 01:55:50,760
Speaker 1: said to I. I read an interview where you were

2112
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:55,160
Speaker 1: talking about the experience. And you know, I think so

2113
01:55:55,200 --> 01:55:57,240
Speaker 1: many people when they go through something like that, at

2114
01:55:57,280 --> 01:56:01,280
Speaker 1: their face tested and and and you talked about how

2115
01:56:01,320 --> 01:56:03,880
Speaker 1: it was all of it, you know, and you said,

2116
01:56:03,960 --> 01:56:06,920
Speaker 1: was it God at work? Sure? It was also human

2117
01:56:07,000 --> 01:56:09,520
Speaker 1: kindness at work. It was decency at work, it was

2118
01:56:09,720 --> 01:56:15,360
Speaker 1: medicine at work. And and I was so struck by that,

2119
01:56:16,040 --> 01:56:19,680
Speaker 1: the choice to acknowledge that all of those things have

2120
01:56:19,800 --> 01:56:25,920
Speaker 1: to be present for a miracle to happen. And as

2121
01:56:25,960 --> 01:56:28,880
Speaker 1: we kind of relate your personal experience now to this

2122
01:56:29,200 --> 01:56:33,200
Speaker 1: wider pandemic, my my hope is that we can all

2123
01:56:33,240 --> 01:56:35,920
Speaker 1: remember that all of those things need to be attended to.

2124
01:56:36,240 --> 01:56:39,000
Speaker 1: You know, we have to have belief, but we have

2125
01:56:39,160 --> 01:56:42,720
Speaker 1: to prioritize kindness and decency. We have to trust science,

2126
01:56:42,760 --> 01:56:46,040
Speaker 1: we have to trust medicine, health care. I mean, she

2127
01:56:46,040 --> 01:56:48,840
Speaker 1: would not have been alive if we do not have

2128
01:56:49,000 --> 01:56:52,720
Speaker 1: health care through my wife and her job at Georgetown.

2129
01:56:53,600 --> 01:56:55,400
Speaker 1: I don't have health care. I have health care through

2130
01:56:55,440 --> 01:56:58,400
Speaker 1: my wife. Um, I'm not part of a union, right,

2131
01:56:58,480 --> 01:57:01,160
Speaker 1: I'm I've always been kind of independent and so I

2132
01:57:01,240 --> 01:57:03,720
Speaker 1: always and that. And this is why awareness is important,

2133
01:57:03,760 --> 01:57:06,840
Speaker 1: not just for liver donors, not just for cancer, and

2134
01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:09,560
Speaker 1: not just uh so you know people get a good,

2135
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:13,600
Speaker 1: feel good story. It's also to advocate for affordable health care,

2136
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:17,480
Speaker 1: affordable medicine, because what happens if we didn't have a

2137
01:57:17,480 --> 01:57:20,839
Speaker 1: health care What happens if we couldn't afford the medicine.

2138
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:24,400
Speaker 1: What happens if we weren't lucky enough to have friends

2139
01:57:25,080 --> 01:57:28,440
Speaker 1: and we're like upper middle class, I would say, um,

2140
01:57:28,520 --> 01:57:31,000
Speaker 1: to raise funds for us, because even I needed funds

2141
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 1: because our life got disrupted for like eight months, we

2142
01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:35,560
Speaker 1: cann't do anything. So you're not working, you're at home,

2143
01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:38,080
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to take care

2144
01:57:38,160 --> 01:57:40,160
Speaker 1: of my son who's going to school, who is such

2145
01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:42,480
Speaker 1: a sweet boy, and he has to you know, tolerate

2146
01:57:42,520 --> 01:57:46,600
Speaker 1: this this disruption. So imagine those single parent families. Because

2147
01:57:46,920 --> 01:57:51,840
Speaker 1: once cancer hits, it's like a bomb. It hits the

2148
01:57:52,240 --> 01:57:56,920
Speaker 1: person who's experiencing it, but then it expands outward and

2149
01:57:57,120 --> 01:58:00,240
Speaker 1: it takes over the family and the parents and loved ones, right,

2150
01:58:00,760 --> 01:58:03,320
Speaker 1: And so I want to bring awareness to the fact

2151
01:58:03,320 --> 01:58:06,200
Speaker 1: that there's so many families who aren't lucky to have

2152
01:58:06,280 --> 01:58:08,600
Speaker 1: friends who will do go fund me. I need to

2153
01:58:08,600 --> 01:58:09,920
Speaker 1: go fund me. I'll be honest. We need to go

2154
01:58:09,920 --> 01:58:13,080
Speaker 1: fund me to survive. And what happens to those fellow

2155
01:58:13,160 --> 01:58:17,720
Speaker 1: Americans They die, Sophia, they die. What happens to the

2156
01:58:18,280 --> 01:58:23,040
Speaker 1: young millennials in their twenties who have diabetes who have

2157
01:58:23,120 --> 01:58:27,840
Speaker 1: to ration their insulin because they can't afford it, They die.

2158
01:58:28,720 --> 01:58:35,960
Speaker 1: And So an example of a miracle is healthcare, medicine, kindness, funds,

2159
01:58:36,360 --> 01:58:38,920
Speaker 1: and belief. And I think that's why it's very important,

2160
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:42,080
Speaker 1: because otherwise people say it's a miracle. Oh God, shine

2161
01:58:42,160 --> 01:58:45,400
Speaker 1: his grace upon us. And there was doctors in medicine

2162
01:58:45,960 --> 01:58:48,600
Speaker 1: and a society that cared about its people. We have

2163
01:58:48,720 --> 01:58:53,080
Speaker 1: to expand the view. Yeah, and so like especially and

2164
01:58:53,080 --> 01:58:55,080
Speaker 1: and the reason why it's important is, look at coronavirus.

2165
01:58:55,120 --> 01:58:59,760
Speaker 1: Look at COVID. COVID is a brilliant X ray of

2166
01:58:59,840 --> 01:59:03,640
Speaker 1: a America of our glories, our words, our sins are

2167
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:09,840
Speaker 1: diseases because it's affecting poor people, the elders, black and brown,

2168
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:14,480
Speaker 1: marginalized communities. People are literally dying because they have been neglected,

2169
01:59:14,480 --> 01:59:16,120
Speaker 1: because they live in the wrong zip codes, because they

2170
01:59:16,120 --> 01:59:20,200
Speaker 1: don't have access to health care, because they were not valued,

2171
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:23,640
Speaker 1: they were not, as you said, prioritized. And so what

2172
01:59:23,720 --> 01:59:27,000
Speaker 1: type of nation are we that we're willing to sacrifice

2173
01:59:27,120 --> 01:59:30,360
Speaker 1: our seniors and let them literally just be killed in

2174
01:59:30,400 --> 01:59:33,960
Speaker 1: swads at a senior center center home or our children.

2175
01:59:34,760 --> 01:59:36,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's like that this is the reckoning.

2176
01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:38,800
Speaker 1: This is the reckoning of America, right, Like, is this

2177
01:59:38,840 --> 01:59:41,400
Speaker 1: a society we want for our kids? Hey, if you work,

2178
01:59:42,160 --> 01:59:44,960
Speaker 1: you're lucky. If you get healthcare, if you get laid off,

2179
01:59:45,000 --> 01:59:48,040
Speaker 1: you'll be like five million Americans. That's the tally right now.

2180
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:51,120
Speaker 1: We have lost healthcare because they've lost work. So your

2181
01:59:51,160 --> 01:59:55,400
Speaker 1: health and your your your life is only valued by

2182
01:59:55,400 --> 01:59:58,720
Speaker 1: your productivity based on how much you work. That's the

2183
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:01,320
Speaker 1: type of society that we are. And I feel like

2184
02:00:01,400 --> 02:00:04,200
Speaker 1: the reason I get more passionate about this is because

2185
02:00:04,200 --> 02:00:06,640
Speaker 1: we just endured it and survive it, and we're the

2186
02:00:06,680 --> 02:00:10,120
Speaker 1: beneficiaries of so much privilege. And my wife is a

2187
02:00:10,120 --> 02:00:12,720
Speaker 1: doctor who like rails about this for years. What we're

2188
02:00:12,720 --> 02:00:14,240
Speaker 1: trying to do is we're trying to use New Saber

2189
02:00:14,320 --> 02:00:18,040
Speaker 1: story not just as a navel gazing, feel good story.

2190
02:00:18,160 --> 02:00:21,080
Speaker 1: But there's power in a story. And if people can

2191
02:00:21,200 --> 02:00:26,280
Speaker 1: see how literally this girl's life was saved, maybe they'll

2192
02:00:26,320 --> 02:00:30,400
Speaker 1: be like, oh, let me invest in science and being

2193
02:00:30,400 --> 02:00:35,040
Speaker 1: a liver donor and healthcare during a pandemic. So that's

2194
02:00:35,040 --> 02:00:37,960
Speaker 1: something I want to touch on because I would say

2195
02:00:37,960 --> 02:00:42,000
Speaker 1: there's two courses of action here, which are everyone listening

2196
02:00:42,040 --> 02:00:44,440
Speaker 1: can call their representatives and say that their number one

2197
02:00:44,440 --> 02:00:48,320
Speaker 1: priority is health care for Americans, which is important. I

2198
02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:51,080
Speaker 1: mean health care, voting rights. There's there's a handful of

2199
02:00:51,160 --> 02:00:54,400
Speaker 1: number one priorities, but these are really up there. Um

2200
02:00:55,360 --> 02:01:03,160
Speaker 1: Also in the personal action items space, becoming a liver donor.

2201
02:01:03,720 --> 02:01:07,960
Speaker 1: You you can donate blood, you can donate plasma, you

2202
02:01:08,000 --> 02:01:10,280
Speaker 1: can go all the way and become a liver donor.

2203
02:01:10,320 --> 02:01:13,960
Speaker 1: There's many things that you can do that help save

2204
02:01:14,000 --> 02:01:18,440
Speaker 1: a life. You can register with the bone marrow Registrate.

2205
02:01:18,440 --> 02:01:23,200
Speaker 1: There there's so many options, especially through what some of

2206
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:28,560
Speaker 1: those are. So you know, while we we're enduring um

2207
02:01:29,280 --> 02:01:34,400
Speaker 1: her cancer, she needed a plasma right she needed blood.

2208
02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:38,120
Speaker 1: There's a plasma shortage. There's a blood shortage, and so

2209
02:01:38,840 --> 02:01:41,680
Speaker 1: if you can give plasma, if you can give blood,

2210
02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:44,600
Speaker 1: and Sean's here, the donor, you know, he he he

2211
02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:48,160
Speaker 1: donated marrow. It's it's a it's you know, it's a process,

2212
02:01:48,200 --> 02:01:51,240
Speaker 1: but it saves lives. So the simplest fact is like,

2213
02:01:51,280 --> 02:01:53,800
Speaker 1: if you just want to give blood, blood saves life.

2214
02:01:53,800 --> 02:01:56,120
Speaker 1: If you can give marrow, marrow saves lives. If you

2215
02:01:56,160 --> 02:02:00,720
Speaker 1: can call your local hospital, the local transplants enter or

2216
02:02:00,880 --> 02:02:02,520
Speaker 1: or the national registry and be like, I want to

2217
02:02:02,560 --> 02:02:05,560
Speaker 1: sign up to be a living donor a kidney donor. Uh,

2218
02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:09,680
Speaker 1: they'll match you up. And based on neuseba story, Georgetown

2219
02:02:10,080 --> 02:02:12,160
Speaker 1: the Transplant Center and Dr Fish Bind who's been doing

2220
02:02:12,160 --> 02:02:14,600
Speaker 1: this for forty years, said, is the first time we've

2221
02:02:14,640 --> 02:02:18,440
Speaker 1: seen demand, excuse me, the first time we've seen supply

2222
02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:22,720
Speaker 1: outmatch demand. Oh my god. If five people are willing

2223
02:02:22,720 --> 02:02:26,160
Speaker 1: to step up, that's five livers. That means we won't

2224
02:02:26,240 --> 02:02:28,720
Speaker 1: ever have to worry about shortage. That means we can

2225
02:02:28,800 --> 02:02:31,879
Speaker 1: expand that means we can save more lives. So, inspired

2226
02:02:31,920 --> 02:02:35,520
Speaker 1: by Newsba George, Georgetown is now trying to invest in

2227
02:02:35,600 --> 02:02:39,720
Speaker 1: create the Georgetown Living Donor Center to expand their facilities

2228
02:02:40,080 --> 02:02:42,200
Speaker 1: to bring in more donors, which will save more lives.

2229
02:02:42,720 --> 02:02:45,120
Speaker 1: So you can also never underestimate the power of funding,

2230
02:02:45,600 --> 02:02:49,839
Speaker 1: never underestimate the power of advocacy for science and healthcare.

2231
02:02:49,920 --> 02:02:53,600
Speaker 1: Doing a pandemic vote and this is how you can

2232
02:02:53,640 --> 02:02:57,360
Speaker 1: like reward and punish those representatives who actually care about this.

2233
02:02:57,680 --> 02:03:00,440
Speaker 1: You vote these mother efforts out who have old people

2234
02:03:00,520 --> 02:03:03,960
Speaker 1: during a pandemic, who have politicized masks, who have sucked

2235
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:07,040
Speaker 1: up to Trump and kissed up to Trump at the

2236
02:03:07,080 --> 02:03:09,839
Speaker 1: expense of the safety and security of their own citizens.

2237
02:03:09,840 --> 02:03:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the governors of Texas, the governors of Florida,

2238
02:03:12,600 --> 02:03:15,920
Speaker 1: the governor of Arizona, just for example. These are the

2239
02:03:15,960 --> 02:03:19,440
Speaker 1: things that we can do because oftentimes we feel so overwhelmed,

2240
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:24,000
Speaker 1: Like there's climate change, there's pandemic, there's racial injustice. Who

2241
02:03:24,080 --> 02:03:26,919
Speaker 1: am I? I'm not Sophia Bush. How are an actress

2242
02:03:26,960 --> 02:03:29,280
Speaker 1: with the platform? I'm not. I don't have a podcast,

2243
02:03:29,280 --> 02:03:31,160
Speaker 1: I'm not like watch I'll get to write from yr time.

2244
02:03:31,160 --> 02:03:34,240
Speaker 1: I'm just like a millennial or or like a house,

2245
02:03:34,520 --> 02:03:36,680
Speaker 1: like a house, like a housewife. Like That's why I'm

2246
02:03:36,880 --> 02:03:38,440
Speaker 1: like a like a like a stay at home dad.

2247
02:03:38,480 --> 02:03:42,640
Speaker 1: I'm nobody disagree. Everyone can do something at the local level.

2248
02:03:43,680 --> 02:03:46,720
Speaker 1: Educate yourself. You can give blood. You can run for

2249
02:03:46,800 --> 02:03:51,920
Speaker 1: like uh city council. You can vote, you can raise

2250
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:56,200
Speaker 1: hell on the internet. There's always small steps everyone can do.

2251
02:03:56,720 --> 02:04:01,800
Speaker 1: And we need the collective passion and righteous rage of

2252
02:04:02,400 --> 02:04:06,360
Speaker 1: all of us to create this multicultural avengers to create

2253
02:04:06,600 --> 02:04:08,480
Speaker 1: because I do think we're at a precipice right now.

2254
02:04:08,520 --> 02:04:11,120
Speaker 1: I think we're to go to your You mentioned this.

2255
02:04:11,200 --> 02:04:13,160
Speaker 1: You know, why does it take pain for people to

2256
02:04:13,200 --> 02:04:16,880
Speaker 1: do It's always been this way. Pain or tragedy illuminates

2257
02:04:16,880 --> 02:04:20,360
Speaker 1: what's been under our nose forever, George Floyd. It's been

2258
02:04:20,400 --> 02:04:23,720
Speaker 1: happening since forever. But seeing a man getting choked to

2259
02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:28,240
Speaker 1: death for eight minutes did something to people, right, an

2260
02:04:28,280 --> 02:04:31,800
Speaker 1: unarmored man getting choked to death, That's what finally was

2261
02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:35,040
Speaker 1: the tipping point um for you know, It's not like

2262
02:04:35,080 --> 02:04:38,720
Speaker 1: women haven't been raped or harassments forever, but finally seeing

2263
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:43,080
Speaker 1: so many women come out Harvey Weinstein, Fox News, somebody

2264
02:04:43,160 --> 02:04:45,200
Speaker 1: like you read those texts, you hear those stories, goes

2265
02:04:45,200 --> 02:04:49,080
Speaker 1: that's freaking disgusting, and so and so I think COVID,

2266
02:04:49,120 --> 02:04:52,120
Speaker 1: what it does in coronavirus, and Trump and his racism

2267
02:04:52,120 --> 02:04:56,920
Speaker 1: in the in the recession. It's people are experiencing immense pain.

2268
02:04:57,360 --> 02:04:59,520
Speaker 1: And I said this prefer I got in trouble for it.

2269
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:06,360
Speaker 1: I said, only when some of Trump's supporters experienced immense

2270
02:05:06,400 --> 02:05:08,680
Speaker 1: personal pain. I've been asked this question for four years.

2271
02:05:08,680 --> 02:05:10,680
Speaker 1: I give the same answer. What will make some people

2272
02:05:10,800 --> 02:05:14,320
Speaker 1: dump Trump? The cult? Right? I said, only after they

2273
02:05:14,360 --> 02:05:18,480
Speaker 1: experienced immense personal pain. Well, some people say, you know what?

2274
02:05:19,800 --> 02:05:23,960
Speaker 1: This is wrong? And you're seeing it now. People are like, Yo,

2275
02:05:24,400 --> 02:05:27,280
Speaker 1: my family members dying because of COVID. F you Trump,

2276
02:05:27,880 --> 02:05:30,480
Speaker 1: where a freaking mask? Yo, You're supposed to make us

2277
02:05:30,480 --> 02:05:33,120
Speaker 1: great again? And you didn't drain the swamp. All your

2278
02:05:33,120 --> 02:05:35,280
Speaker 1: buddies are getting money and the factories are shutting down.

2279
02:05:35,400 --> 02:05:39,080
Speaker 1: F you Trump, Yo. I liked you for being politically incorrect,

2280
02:05:39,120 --> 02:05:42,480
Speaker 1: but you're just cruel man. F you Trump? And does

2281
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:45,280
Speaker 1: it have to take Does it have to take immense

2282
02:05:45,320 --> 02:05:47,280
Speaker 1: pain for us to be do the right thing? I

2283
02:05:47,280 --> 02:05:50,280
Speaker 1: would say no. I would say no. So I hope

2284
02:05:50,320 --> 02:05:52,040
Speaker 1: this is a moment of not only reckoning, but of

2285
02:05:52,080 --> 02:05:56,360
Speaker 1: awareness growth. And I hope you know my look, I

2286
02:05:56,480 --> 02:06:00,280
Speaker 1: get no joy in seeing the rust belt or Trump

2287
02:06:00,280 --> 02:06:03,720
Speaker 1: supporters dying. I don't want you to suffer. I want

2288
02:06:03,760 --> 02:06:06,280
Speaker 1: you get healthcare. I want you to have food stamps.

2289
02:06:06,560 --> 02:06:08,840
Speaker 1: I want you to have economic opportunities. I do not

2290
02:06:09,160 --> 02:06:11,040
Speaker 1: need you to suffer in order to feel great again,

2291
02:06:11,040 --> 02:06:12,840
Speaker 1: even though you need me and my people to suffer

2292
02:06:12,880 --> 02:06:14,920
Speaker 1: to feel great again, I don't need you to feel

2293
02:06:15,560 --> 02:06:17,760
Speaker 1: I don't need to suffer. I want you to be great.

2294
02:06:17,960 --> 02:06:20,480
Speaker 1: I want you to live. I just want you to

2295
02:06:20,560 --> 02:06:23,000
Speaker 1: want that for me and my family as well. Mm hmm.

2296
02:06:24,320 --> 02:06:26,120
Speaker 1: And if it's going to take you a while to

2297
02:06:26,200 --> 02:06:29,440
Speaker 1: get there, I certainly hope you can speed up that process,

2298
02:06:29,960 --> 02:06:33,280
Speaker 1: and I will continue to want you to live while

2299
02:06:33,280 --> 02:06:35,560
Speaker 1: you're catching up. I want you to thrive and live.

2300
02:06:35,560 --> 02:06:38,560
Speaker 1: I don't want your kids to suffer like you know, uh,

2301
02:06:38,640 --> 02:06:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, like you speaking about religion, people hate religion

2302
02:06:41,840 --> 02:06:43,600
Speaker 1: or I understand why. But the through line of most

2303
02:06:43,640 --> 02:06:46,400
Speaker 1: religion is the following, do the most amount of good,

2304
02:06:46,600 --> 02:06:50,200
Speaker 1: do the least amount of harm, sanctify life simple. You

2305
02:06:50,240 --> 02:06:52,720
Speaker 1: don't have to be a theologian. That's what it is. Right.

2306
02:06:53,360 --> 02:06:56,400
Speaker 1: Faith gives you an anchor of security where you feel

2307
02:06:56,400 --> 02:06:58,600
Speaker 1: that there is a powerful force out there is something

2308
02:06:58,600 --> 02:07:00,920
Speaker 1: bigger than you that come for two and welcomes you

2309
02:07:01,040 --> 02:07:03,280
Speaker 1: and loves you. And also, at the same time, your

2310
02:07:03,360 --> 02:07:05,440
Speaker 1: duty and rule as a practitioner of that faith is

2311
02:07:05,480 --> 02:07:07,280
Speaker 1: to be the best person you can be and to

2312
02:07:07,360 --> 02:07:12,840
Speaker 1: help people simple most religions. Right. And so I hit

2313
02:07:12,880 --> 02:07:14,920
Speaker 1: hard on Twitter, I hit hard on CNN, I hit

2314
02:07:14,920 --> 02:07:19,360
Speaker 1: hard in New York Times. I'll take on bullies. Uh,

2315
02:07:19,400 --> 02:07:22,880
Speaker 1: but I still want people to succeed. I don't want

2316
02:07:22,920 --> 02:07:25,000
Speaker 1: you to. I don't need people. I don't want to

2317
02:07:25,000 --> 02:07:27,840
Speaker 1: replace you. I just want to be equal with you.

2318
02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:31,600
Speaker 1: And I want you and your kids to have healthcare

2319
02:07:31,640 --> 02:07:35,760
Speaker 1: in Arkansas. I want Mitch McConnell's voters in Kentucky, which

2320
02:07:35,840 --> 02:07:39,080
Speaker 1: is a state that is just just ravaged by poverty.

2321
02:07:39,520 --> 02:07:42,960
Speaker 1: I want you to have access to fresh food and

2322
02:07:43,120 --> 02:07:47,320
Speaker 1: medicine and affordable healthcare and good speed internet and and

2323
02:07:47,560 --> 02:07:50,480
Speaker 1: and and opportunities so you don't feel like you're left out.

2324
02:07:51,000 --> 02:07:55,480
Speaker 1: That's what I want for you, you know, I want

2325
02:07:55,920 --> 02:07:59,360
Speaker 1: I want those regions and all those people I want

2326
02:07:59,400 --> 02:08:02,960
Speaker 1: them to process where I want them to feel secure. Yeah.

2327
02:08:03,040 --> 02:08:05,240
Speaker 1: And because again going back to the point you made,

2328
02:08:06,200 --> 02:08:10,640
Speaker 1: if you are prospering, I am prospering. The thing what

2329
02:08:10,760 --> 02:08:12,640
Speaker 1: people are realizing in COVID, and I think this is

2330
02:08:12,680 --> 02:08:15,560
Speaker 1: really hitting hard, is how connected we all were, how

2331
02:08:15,600 --> 02:08:18,680
Speaker 1: connected we all are. Right, we try to isolate ourselves

2332
02:08:18,680 --> 02:08:22,120
Speaker 1: in suburbs, uh, in certain zip codes. We try to

2333
02:08:22,160 --> 02:08:26,160
Speaker 1: isolate ourselves with the Internet. We think, oh, what happens

2334
02:08:26,160 --> 02:08:28,920
Speaker 1: in Florida won't affect us, Oh what happens with those

2335
02:08:28,920 --> 02:08:32,960
Speaker 1: bougie liberals in New York won't affect us? Who cares well?

2336
02:08:33,400 --> 02:08:37,320
Speaker 1: Now you're seeing it through coronavirus. And if this country

2337
02:08:37,400 --> 02:08:40,520
Speaker 1: is suffering, and if people don't have jobs, and if

2338
02:08:40,560 --> 02:08:43,760
Speaker 1: people um have income in quality, excuse me, if if

2339
02:08:43,760 --> 02:08:46,520
Speaker 1: there is InCom in quality, which it is and it's increasing,

2340
02:08:46,800 --> 02:08:51,960
Speaker 1: and if people um are sick, all this affects us, right,

2341
02:08:52,000 --> 02:08:56,600
Speaker 1: it affects the It's a burden on the entire country.

2342
02:08:56,640 --> 02:08:59,520
Speaker 1: But if more people have opportunities, we all rise. And

2343
02:08:59,520 --> 02:09:01,240
Speaker 1: that's the one positive. I remember I was talking to

2344
02:09:01,360 --> 02:09:04,640
Speaker 1: uh uh this. You know, my wife and I are

2345
02:09:04,720 --> 02:09:06,640
Speaker 1: one splurge during the cancer was we used to go

2346
02:09:06,680 --> 02:09:10,000
Speaker 1: get massagist just to survive professional massagists. And so the

2347
02:09:10,080 --> 02:09:13,440
Speaker 1: lady they're Chinese immigrant who said I was conservative, I

2348
02:09:13,480 --> 02:09:16,000
Speaker 1: see you on TV. I follow you, and she talks

2349
02:09:16,040 --> 02:09:18,240
Speaker 1: politics with me all the time. She's like become woke again,

2350
02:09:18,240 --> 02:09:20,280
Speaker 1: like a fifty five year old Chinese immigrant woman. And

2351
02:09:20,320 --> 02:09:23,920
Speaker 1: she goes, my my husband and his family were for

2352
02:09:23,960 --> 02:09:28,360
Speaker 1: Trump because they said, oh, taxas business, who cares? But

2353
02:09:28,480 --> 02:09:32,160
Speaker 1: I said, no, he is terrible for this country. He's

2354
02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:35,800
Speaker 1: cruel and he's mean. And it's not like China. It's America.

2355
02:09:36,360 --> 02:09:38,680
Speaker 1: It's all of us or none of us, and he's

2356
02:09:38,720 --> 02:09:41,960
Speaker 1: hurting so many people. We all have to rise up.

2357
02:09:42,160 --> 02:09:44,160
Speaker 1: And so you better not vote for Trump. And she says,

2358
02:09:44,200 --> 02:09:45,640
Speaker 1: every time I come out, you come on see and

2359
02:09:45,640 --> 02:09:48,120
Speaker 1: I said, watch this man, and so she said she

2360
02:09:48,200 --> 02:09:50,000
Speaker 1: was so happy. She said right before the luck that

2361
02:09:50,040 --> 02:09:52,640
Speaker 1: she goes, I've convinced my husband to vote for the

2362
02:09:52,680 --> 02:09:57,000
Speaker 1: Democrat Um. And so it just shows you that there

2363
02:09:57,200 --> 02:09:59,480
Speaker 1: is an arc for people like I think there's a

2364
02:09:59,520 --> 02:10:01,960
Speaker 1: way out, and I think people are, unfortunately are seeing

2365
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:05,720
Speaker 1: this as a result of this immense collective pain we're

2366
02:10:05,800 --> 02:10:09,200
Speaker 1: enduring during coronavirus. It's either all of us are none

2367
02:10:09,240 --> 02:10:11,520
Speaker 1: of us, man, that's it. I hate that it takes

2368
02:10:11,520 --> 02:10:13,840
Speaker 1: pain to get there, But what I do love is

2369
02:10:13,880 --> 02:10:17,480
Speaker 1: that we always have the ability to be shaken back

2370
02:10:17,520 --> 02:10:21,920
Speaker 1: to reality. All Right, my friend, thank you for being

2371
02:10:21,960 --> 02:10:24,360
Speaker 1: so generous with your time today. I have one more

2372
02:10:24,440 --> 02:10:26,360
Speaker 1: question for you. It's my favorite thing to ask everyone

2373
02:10:26,360 --> 02:10:28,640
Speaker 1: who comes on the show. And you know, the podcast

2374
02:10:28,720 --> 02:10:32,880
Speaker 1: is called work in Progress. And as as you're as

2375
02:10:32,920 --> 02:10:35,960
Speaker 1: you're dove tailing us into this immense I'm just I'm

2376
02:10:36,000 --> 02:10:39,200
Speaker 1: just going to no, I just say, I don't mean

2377
02:10:39,280 --> 02:10:41,440
Speaker 1: terrupt you. I was just just for those who are listening.

2378
02:10:41,440 --> 02:10:44,520
Speaker 1: I've I've left my minivan to go inside my home

2379
02:10:44,960 --> 02:10:46,920
Speaker 1: just to plug my computer in because I'm at two

2380
02:10:46,920 --> 02:10:49,600
Speaker 1: percent and you're listening to me like do this, and

2381
02:10:49,640 --> 02:10:52,240
Speaker 1: my kids started to hilarious, so they've locked me out

2382
02:10:51,880 --> 02:10:54,640
Speaker 1: and put the chain. Put the chain. You can see it,

2383
02:10:54,680 --> 02:10:55,960
Speaker 1: so if you can see they think they do as

2384
02:10:56,000 --> 02:10:57,480
Speaker 1: a joke. My son I bring him desert a joke,

2385
02:10:57,520 --> 02:10:59,880
Speaker 1: so he's chained me out, and now I have two

2386
02:11:00,080 --> 02:11:04,600
Speaker 1: percent to casually change myself, de change myself, get to

2387
02:11:04,640 --> 02:11:08,400
Speaker 1: the power port and get it. But keep going, keep going,

2388
02:11:08,400 --> 02:11:12,320
Speaker 1: willing what just happened? Okay, Well, the show is called

2389
02:11:12,320 --> 02:11:16,800
Speaker 1: work in Progress, and I'm just curious what to you,

2390
02:11:16,880 --> 02:11:20,160
Speaker 1: whether it's personal and professional or perhaps in this great

2391
02:11:20,200 --> 02:11:23,640
Speaker 1: spirit of you know, uniting one for all. What feels

2392
02:11:23,640 --> 02:11:26,280
Speaker 1: like a work in progress to you? Right now? That's

2393
02:11:26,320 --> 02:11:28,360
Speaker 1: a good question. All right, the doors open for those

2394
02:11:28,400 --> 02:11:32,000
Speaker 1: of you who have been following me on this journey.

2395
02:11:30,680 --> 02:11:33,760
Speaker 1: Uh uh. And now I'm trying to go to the

2396
02:11:34,040 --> 02:11:35,760
Speaker 1: So this is the work in progress to get first

2397
02:11:35,800 --> 02:11:37,880
Speaker 1: and foremost, the short term progress is to get to

2398
02:11:37,960 --> 02:11:41,520
Speaker 1: the electricity. So I've been plugging in. But the work

2399
02:11:41,520 --> 02:11:43,280
Speaker 1: in progress for me, And it's a good question. It's

2400
02:11:43,280 --> 02:11:45,520
Speaker 1: actually really good question. See, these are those questions that

2401
02:11:45,520 --> 02:11:47,040
Speaker 1: people and I think if they invest a little bit

2402
02:11:47,080 --> 02:11:48,920
Speaker 1: of time and they can reveal a lot about your

2403
02:11:48,920 --> 02:11:51,320
Speaker 1: personal journey. I think, you know, if you really invest time,

2404
02:11:51,360 --> 02:11:53,560
Speaker 1: if you don't treat this as a throwaway question, which

2405
02:11:53,600 --> 02:11:56,640
Speaker 1: I am not treating that, I think the work in

2406
02:11:56,680 --> 02:12:00,400
Speaker 1: progress is continual. I'm going to make it a asumption

2407
02:12:00,680 --> 02:12:03,360
Speaker 1: about you. Tell me if I'm wrong. I think you

2408
02:12:03,400 --> 02:12:06,040
Speaker 1: and me are both very hard on ourselves. I think

2409
02:12:06,120 --> 02:12:08,440
Speaker 1: I think you and me are people When people look

2410
02:12:08,480 --> 02:12:11,240
Speaker 1: at us, they think, oh, they have accomplished everything. But

2411
02:12:11,280 --> 02:12:13,400
Speaker 1: I feel like we we we sit there and and

2412
02:12:13,400 --> 02:12:16,560
Speaker 1: they're like, what have what have I done? Um? And

2413
02:12:16,560 --> 02:12:20,840
Speaker 1: And this is this an assumption. Pardon me if I'm incorrect. Uh.

2414
02:12:22,160 --> 02:12:26,080
Speaker 1: My wife says, I am. She's never met anyone who

2415
02:12:26,160 --> 02:12:30,840
Speaker 1: is harder on themselves than me, And she says, I don't.

2416
02:12:31,280 --> 02:12:33,400
Speaker 1: I wish you could see herself the way we see you.

2417
02:12:34,120 --> 02:12:36,480
Speaker 1: And it's not self deprecation. I'm not like self loathing.

2418
02:12:36,480 --> 02:12:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm not like depressed. I just feel I have been

2419
02:12:41,720 --> 02:12:45,520
Speaker 1: given so much. I am the son of immigrants. I'm

2420
02:12:45,560 --> 02:12:48,680
Speaker 1: the only child. I've survived death a couple of times.

2421
02:12:49,040 --> 02:12:52,400
Speaker 1: I'm married up. My daughter is alive. I got to

2422
02:12:52,480 --> 02:12:54,720
Speaker 1: make a career in media, which so many people don't

2423
02:12:54,720 --> 02:12:57,440
Speaker 1: get to make. I have a platform. I was lucky

2424
02:12:57,480 --> 02:13:00,320
Speaker 1: to go to UC Berkeley. You become an English major.

2425
02:13:00,360 --> 02:13:03,720
Speaker 1: I went to law school. I'm still licensed. I'm talking

2426
02:13:03,760 --> 02:13:07,480
Speaker 1: to Sophia Bush. I've been on CNN, I have I

2427
02:13:07,480 --> 02:13:10,800
Speaker 1: have access to the editors. I've traveled the world. I

2428
02:13:10,920 --> 02:13:17,120
Speaker 1: do not have the excuse. Others might have the legitimate excuse. Right.

2429
02:13:18,360 --> 02:13:20,800
Speaker 1: I have been given almost a golden platter in life.

2430
02:13:20,840 --> 02:13:25,720
Speaker 1: I go on the Willy Wonka ticket, and so I

2431
02:13:25,840 --> 02:13:28,680
Speaker 1: believe in God. I believe there will be a judgment day.

2432
02:13:28,720 --> 02:13:31,400
Speaker 1: I believe God will say, so what did you do?

2433
02:13:32,560 --> 02:13:35,360
Speaker 1: You know, with great power comes great responsibility. Other people

2434
02:13:35,360 --> 02:13:37,200
Speaker 1: were poor and other people were sick, and I'm not

2435
02:13:37,240 --> 02:13:40,480
Speaker 1: going to ask from them as much because they had

2436
02:13:40,480 --> 02:13:42,880
Speaker 1: such so many hardships, you know, their struggle with just

2437
02:13:42,920 --> 02:13:46,600
Speaker 1: to survive. What did you do? Would you have? And

2438
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:49,920
Speaker 1: I asked myself this a lot every day, and my

2439
02:13:50,000 --> 02:13:55,120
Speaker 1: work in progress, it's twofold. It's gonna seem interesting. Number one,

2440
02:13:56,200 --> 02:14:02,000
Speaker 1: to be more forgiving of myself towards myself, to be gentler,

2441
02:14:03,600 --> 02:14:07,720
Speaker 1: which is weird, Which is a weird plot twist, because

2442
02:14:08,160 --> 02:14:13,480
Speaker 1: we're all trying to endure an international pandemic, something we

2443
02:14:13,560 --> 02:14:18,600
Speaker 1: haven't seen for a hundred years. And resistance in the

2444
02:14:18,600 --> 02:14:21,520
Speaker 1: age of Trump, for many people of color is simply survival,

2445
02:14:22,400 --> 02:14:27,200
Speaker 1: simply holding your head up, simply having dignity, simply having joy,

2446
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:31,920
Speaker 1: finding joy in these moments of pain. And so that's

2447
02:14:31,960 --> 02:14:34,800
Speaker 1: the work in progress, is to be a little bit

2448
02:14:34,880 --> 02:14:38,720
Speaker 1: gentler with myself, slow down, live in the moment, and realize.

2449
02:14:38,760 --> 02:14:40,480
Speaker 1: My wife and I said this to ourselves, this is

2450
02:14:40,520 --> 02:14:42,320
Speaker 1: the high water mark of our life. It's like that

2451
02:14:42,520 --> 02:14:44,680
Speaker 1: scene in Benjamin Button right when you get to the middle.

2452
02:14:45,640 --> 02:14:47,720
Speaker 1: My parents are alive, her parents are alive, our kids

2453
02:14:47,720 --> 02:14:51,440
Speaker 1: are cute as hell. She's forty one nine. You know

2454
02:14:51,520 --> 02:14:54,280
Speaker 1: we like you know, when you crust, you realize it, like,

2455
02:14:54,520 --> 02:14:57,839
Speaker 1: don't take this for granted. Don't take this for granted,

2456
02:14:58,160 --> 02:15:01,200
Speaker 1: even during a pandemic. Live even this, and just take

2457
02:15:01,280 --> 02:15:04,080
Speaker 1: joy in this and the other work in progress. I

2458
02:15:04,080 --> 02:15:07,600
Speaker 1: would say on the flip side, is life is short.

2459
02:15:08,080 --> 02:15:11,680
Speaker 1: I have been given multiple chances. I gave you one

2460
02:15:11,680 --> 02:15:13,880
Speaker 1: example of the nearrative experience. I feel like God or

2461
02:15:14,000 --> 02:15:16,880
Speaker 1: the universe gave me a plus one, a bonus life.

2462
02:15:16,880 --> 02:15:20,640
Speaker 1: I'm on bonus time. I have to do whatever I

2463
02:15:20,680 --> 02:15:25,360
Speaker 1: can with whatever limited talent I have to push this forward.

2464
02:15:26,320 --> 02:15:30,320
Speaker 1: Um as a father, I'll give this last analogy. I

2465
02:15:30,360 --> 02:15:32,760
Speaker 1: think about myself now. I'm thirty nine, a butter and forty,

2466
02:15:32,760 --> 02:15:36,600
Speaker 1: I've got three kids. You know you always think in

2467
02:15:36,640 --> 02:15:38,600
Speaker 1: my twenties is all about my career, like I'll be

2468
02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:41,800
Speaker 1: success with how many books I published. I'm a father.

2469
02:15:41,880 --> 02:15:45,200
Speaker 1: Now it's different. It's like, maybe I won't be the

2470
02:15:45,240 --> 02:15:49,160
Speaker 1: hero of the story. Maybe I'll be the janitor, maybe

2471
02:15:49,200 --> 02:15:53,640
Speaker 1: my job is to clean everything up. Or or maybe

2472
02:15:53,640 --> 02:15:56,760
Speaker 1: I'll be hod Or from Game of the Thrones. You know,

2473
02:15:56,840 --> 02:16:00,680
Speaker 1: maybe I won't like, yeah, be John's know. But maybe

2474
02:16:00,720 --> 02:16:04,720
Speaker 1: my job is just to hold the door long enough

2475
02:16:05,200 --> 02:16:09,680
Speaker 1: for my kids to escape before the demons breakthrough. And

2476
02:16:09,680 --> 02:16:11,960
Speaker 1: then I say, maybe the work in progress is to

2477
02:16:12,040 --> 02:16:15,720
Speaker 1: be if I'm lucky the gardener, maybe I can just

2478
02:16:16,920 --> 02:16:20,200
Speaker 1: maybe I can just invest something. And if I'm lucky,

2479
02:16:20,400 --> 02:16:24,320
Speaker 1: before my time's up, my kid and that generation can

2480
02:16:24,360 --> 02:16:27,200
Speaker 1: you know, enjoy the shade and the fruit. So the

2481
02:16:27,240 --> 02:16:30,120
Speaker 1: work in the progress is I'm trying to figure out

2482
02:16:30,160 --> 02:16:32,360
Speaker 1: what to do with the rest of my life to

2483
02:16:32,480 --> 02:16:35,480
Speaker 1: make sure that I'm a gardener. The question I gave

2484
02:16:35,520 --> 02:16:39,760
Speaker 1: you a really pretentious, in depth answer, but that's what

2485
02:16:39,840 --> 02:16:41,480
Speaker 1: I think I think about this stuff. So there you go.

2486
02:16:41,600 --> 02:16:46,160
Speaker 1: That's where I'm at. I really love that. I I

2487
02:16:46,200 --> 02:16:49,240
Speaker 1: like the idea of being a gardener. And it's interesting

2488
02:16:49,320 --> 02:16:55,080
Speaker 1: you say that because I my my my quarantine project

2489
02:16:55,120 --> 02:17:00,600
Speaker 1: has been to quite literally plant a garden. There you chickens.

2490
02:17:00,680 --> 02:17:06,480
Speaker 1: I'm growing things and raising cute baby animals and and

2491
02:17:06,480 --> 02:17:12,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, really growing and cultivating a space. So yeah,

2492
02:17:12,240 --> 02:17:14,680
Speaker 1: it's pretty life right. And not only not only not

2493
02:17:14,720 --> 02:17:18,520
Speaker 1: only are you growing chickens literally life uh in a garden,

2494
02:17:19,080 --> 02:17:22,119
Speaker 1: but if you think about it, you are creating, right,

2495
02:17:22,200 --> 02:17:25,080
Speaker 1: You're a storytelling, you're creating podcasts, you're creating a space,

2496
02:17:25,120 --> 02:17:29,600
Speaker 1: you're creating conversations. And I think people kind of people.

2497
02:17:29,959 --> 02:17:32,800
Speaker 1: People don't take this, you know. We it's very easy

2498
02:17:32,800 --> 02:17:35,039
Speaker 1: to be pretentious about this, and it's very easy to

2499
02:17:35,120 --> 02:17:40,120
Speaker 1: also to underestimate the power. Creation comes in different ways.

2500
02:17:40,200 --> 02:17:42,520
Speaker 1: One way is babies, One ways is like food, one

2501
02:17:42,560 --> 02:17:47,279
Speaker 1: way is chickens. But also dialogue and spaces and opportunities

2502
02:17:48,200 --> 02:17:52,080
Speaker 1: is a creation that can really change people's lives, you know,

2503
02:17:52,520 --> 02:17:55,080
Speaker 1: And I feel like, you know, all of us. I hope,

2504
02:17:55,120 --> 02:17:57,320
Speaker 1: I just hope this can be gardeners. That's my hope.

2505
02:17:57,480 --> 02:17:59,800
Speaker 1: I hope I'm not destructive. I hope I'm just a

2506
02:18:00,000 --> 02:18:01,720
Speaker 1: and I hope. But when my time is up, the

2507
02:18:01,720 --> 02:18:03,720
Speaker 1: work in progress is I can look back and says

2508
02:18:03,760 --> 02:18:06,720
Speaker 1: I did more good. You know. I pushed things a

2509
02:18:06,760 --> 02:18:09,600
Speaker 1: bit forward, um, and you know, I don't have any

2510
02:18:09,600 --> 02:18:12,039
Speaker 1: delusions of grandeur. Uh And the end of the day

2511
02:18:12,040 --> 02:18:16,000
Speaker 1: were with just insignificant specs of stardust. Right. But I

2512
02:18:16,040 --> 02:18:17,879
Speaker 1: feel like if we can do this, especially during this

2513
02:18:17,920 --> 02:18:21,400
Speaker 1: pandemic which has claimed a hundred forty thou Americans as

2514
02:18:21,400 --> 02:18:24,600
Speaker 1: of now, which is going to claim more. I feel

2515
02:18:24,600 --> 02:18:28,920
Speaker 1: like I can when my time is up, I can

2516
02:18:28,959 --> 02:18:31,400
Speaker 1: hang my hat on the rack and feel like I

2517
02:18:31,440 --> 02:18:38,160
Speaker 1: can make my exit. I love that. Yeah, that's it.

2518
02:18:38,280 --> 02:18:40,600
Speaker 1: That's all I got. It's not bad, and it makes

2519
02:18:40,640 --> 02:18:43,840
Speaker 1: me happy. To the kids having a ball in the background,

2520
02:18:44,000 --> 02:18:47,600
Speaker 1: I love it. I actually really love it. It's it's

2521
02:18:47,640 --> 02:18:53,080
Speaker 1: such a special thing. I think. You know, obviously I've

2522
02:18:53,120 --> 02:18:57,080
Speaker 1: I've followed your journey with what your family has gone

2523
02:18:57,120 --> 02:19:01,680
Speaker 1: through with your daughter. But to hear the kids now

2524
02:19:01,720 --> 02:19:05,280
Speaker 1: playing in the background is like, it's like a really

2525
02:19:06,480 --> 02:19:08,840
Speaker 1: beautiful knife to the heart. You know. I'm just like,

2526
02:19:08,879 --> 02:19:11,120
Speaker 1: oh God, that hits me right in the fields. And

2527
02:19:11,200 --> 02:19:15,320
Speaker 1: the best way possible little chripping, that chirpping, is that

2528
02:19:15,400 --> 02:19:17,600
Speaker 1: you can hear and that and that kiss I blew

2529
02:19:17,640 --> 02:19:19,760
Speaker 1: to the camera, which thank god you didn call me on,

2530
02:19:19,879 --> 02:19:22,280
Speaker 1: was not me being like totally shady. Is just because

2531
02:19:22,280 --> 02:19:24,800
Speaker 1: she she came in. She came in the room, and

2532
02:19:24,840 --> 02:19:26,360
Speaker 1: I gave a little kiss, and then she gave me

2533
02:19:26,400 --> 02:19:30,840
Speaker 1: a kiss. She goes, okay, okay, she understands now had

2534
02:19:30,680 --> 02:19:32,600
Speaker 1: had said that. She gets it. She okay, okay, and

2535
02:19:32,720 --> 02:19:34,039
Speaker 1: she closed the door and she went away and started

2536
02:19:34,040 --> 02:19:37,480
Speaker 1: beating up her brother. So that's what's happening right now. Amazing. Well,

2537
02:19:37,640 --> 02:19:42,440
Speaker 1: I'm just so happy that there's, you know, so much

2538
02:19:42,520 --> 02:19:45,600
Speaker 1: joy and so much hope in the midst of everything.

2539
02:19:45,680 --> 02:19:50,400
Speaker 1: It's it's inspiring and um and I agree with you.

2540
02:19:50,440 --> 02:19:52,920
Speaker 1: I I hope we can just push things forward a bit,

2541
02:19:54,480 --> 02:20:01,080
Speaker 1: you know, we're trying. This show is ecutive produced by Me,

2542
02:20:01,400 --> 02:20:06,279
Speaker 1: Sophia Bush, and sim Sarna. Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick.

2543
02:20:06,600 --> 02:20:10,840
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Kate Linley. Our editor is Josh Wendish,

2544
02:20:11,240 --> 02:20:13,720
Speaker 1: and our music was written by Jack Garrett and produced

2545
02:20:13,720 --> 02:20:16,320
Speaker 1: by Mark Foster. This show is brought to you by

2546
02:20:16,400 --> 02:20:24,400
Speaker 1: Brilliant Anatomy